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PLAYBOY Interview With Conan O'Brien Interview by Kevin Cook For Playboy Magazine February 1998
A candid conversation with the preppie prince of "Late Night" about his rocky start, his show's secret one-day cancellation and how David Letterman saved the day.
He was polite. He was funny. He gave us a communicable disease.
At 34 Conan O'Brien is hotter than the fever he was running when we met in his private domain above the "Late Night" sound stage. A gangly freckle-faced ex-high school geek he is "one of TV's hottest properties" according to "People" magazine. The host of "Late Night With Conan O'Brien" has become his generation's king of comedy.
Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown. Congested too, but O'Brien has far more to worry about than his head cold. A perfectionist who broods over one bad minute in an otherwise perfect hour of TV, he worries he might be anhedonic, "I have trouble with success," he says, "I was raised to believe that if something good happens something bad is coming." Sure things look good now "Rolling Stone" calls "Late Night" "the hottest comedy show on TV." Ratings are better than ever, particularly among 18- to 34-year-olds, the viewers advertisers crave.
But O'Brien only works harder. Despite his illness he taped two shows in 26 hours on three hours' sleep. He smoothly interviewed Elton John then burst into coughing fits during commercials. Later in his crammed corner office overlooking Manhattan traffic Conan the Cool gulped Dayquil gel caps. He coughed spewing microbes.
"Sorry, sorry," he said. Of course O'Brien can't complain. He came seriously close to falling to being banished behind the scenes as just another failed talk show host.
At his first "Late Night" press conference he corrected a reporter who called him a relative unknown, "Sir I am a complete unknown," he said. That line got a laugh, but soon O'Brien looked doomed. His September 13, 1993 debut began with O'Brien in his dressing room preparing to hang himself only to be interrupted by the start of his show. Before long his career was hanging by a thread. Ratings were terrible. Critics hated the show. Tom Shales of "The Washington Post" called it as "lifeless and messy as roadkill." Shales said O'Brien should quit.
Network officials held urgent meetings discussing the Conan O'Brien debacle. Should they fire him? How should they explain their mistake?
In the end of course he turned it around. The network hung with him long enough for the ratings to improve and the host of the cooler-than-ever "Late Night" now defines comedy's cutting edge just as Letterman did ten years ago.
Even Shales loves "Late Night" these days. He calls O'Brien's turnaround "one of the most amazing transformations in television history."
O'Brien was born on April 18, 1963 in Brookline, Massachusetts. His father, a doctor, is a professor at Harvard Medical School. His mother, a lawyer, is a partner at an elite Boston Law firm. Conan, the third of six children became a lector at church and a misfit at school. Tall and goofy, bedeviled with acne, he tried to impress girls with jokes. That plan usually bombed, but O'Brien eventually found his niche at Harvard where he won the presidency of the "Harvard Lampoon" in 1983 and again in 1984 - the first two-time "Lampoon" president since humorist Robert Benchley held the honor 85 years ago.
After graduating magna cum laude with a double major in literature and American history he turned pro. Writing for HBO's "Not Necessarily The News." O'Brien was earning $100,000 a year before his 24th birthday. But writing was never enough.
He honed his performance skills with the Groundlings, a Los Angeles improv group. There he worked with his onetime girlfriend Lisa Kudrow, now starring on "Friends." But Conan was not such a standout. In 1988 he landed a job at "Saturday Night Live" - but as a writer, not as on-air talent. In almost four years on the show O'Brien made only fleeting appearances, usually as a crowd member or security guard. His writing was more memorable. He wrote (or co-wrote) Tom hanks' "Mr Short-Term Memory" skits as well as the "pump you up" infosatire of Hanz and Franz and the nude beach sketch in which Matthew Broderick and "SNL" members played nudists admiring one another's penises. With dozens of mentions of the word that hit was the most penis-heavy moment in TV history. It helped O'Brien win an Emmy for comedy writing.
In 1991 he quit "SNL" and moved on to "The Simpsons" where he worked for two years. His urge to perform came out in wall-bouncing antics in writers' meetings. "Conan makes you fall out of your chair" said "Simpsons" creator Matt Groening. O'Brien's yen to act out was so strong that he spurned Fox's reported seven-figure offer to continue as a writer. He was driving for the spotlight.
By then David Letterman had announced he was turning shin - leaving NBC taking his ton-rated act to CBS. Suddenly NBC was up a creek without a host. The network turned to Lorne Michaels, O'Brien's "Saturday Night Live" boss. Michaels enlisted Conan's help in the host search planning to use him in a behind-the-scenes job. But when Garry Shandling, Dana Carvey and almost every other star turned down the chore of following Letterman, Michaels finally listened to Conan's crazy suggestion, "Let me do it!" Michaels persuaded the network to entrust it's 12:30 slot which Letterman had turned into a gold mine to an untested wiseass from Harvard.
O'Brien was working on one of his last "Simpsons" episodes when he got the news. He turned "paler than usual," Groening recalled. The Conan moseyed back to where the other writers were working, "I'll come back with the Homer Simspon joke later. I have to go replace Letterman," he said.
NBC executives now get credit for their foresight during those dark days of 1993 and 1994. They snared the axe and now reap the multimillion-dollar spoils of that decision. In fact, the story is not so simple. We sent Contributing Editor Kevin Cook to unravel the tale of O'Brien's survival, which he tells here for the first time. Cook reports:
"His office is chock-full of significa. There's a three-foot plastic pickle the Letterman staff left behind in 1993 - perhaps to suggest what a predicament he was in. There's a copy of Jack Paar's 'I Kid You Not' and a coffee-table book called 'Saturday Night Live: The First 20 Years.' His bulletin board features letters from fans such as John Watters and Bob Dole and an 8" x 10" glossy of Andy Richter with the inscription: "To Conan - Your bitter jealousy warms my black heart. Love and Kisses Andy."
"Of course it's all for show. From the photos of kitch icons Adam West and Robert Stack to the framed Stan Laurel autograph, from the deathbed painting of Abraham Lincoln, to the ironic star taped to Conan's door - they're all clever signals that tell a visitor how to view the star. Lincoln was his collegiate preoccupation: stardom is his occupation. Somewhere between the two I hoped to find the real O'Brien.
"As a Playboy reader he wanted to give me a better-than-average interview. I wanted something more - a definitive look at the guy who may end up being the Johnny Carson of his generation."
"Here's hoping we succeeded. If not I carried his germs 3000 miles and infected dozens of Californians for no good reason.
O'Brien: Yes, this is how to do a Playboy Interview -- completely tanked on cold medicine. I'll pick it up and read, "Yes, I'm gay."
Playboy: We could talk another time. O'Brien: (coughing) No, it's OK. I memorized Dennis Rodman's answers. Can I use them?
Playboy: You sound really sick. Do you ever take a day off? O'Brien: No. The age of talk show hosts taking days off is over. Johnny Carson could go to Africa when he was the only game in town -- "See you in two weeks!" But nobody does that now. I will give you a million dollars on the first day Jay takes off for illness.
Playboy: Do you ever slow down and enjoy your success? O'Brien: If anything, the pace is picking up. Restaurateurs insist on giving me a table even if I'm only passing by, so I'm eating nine meals a night. Women stop me on the street and hand me their phone numbers.
Playboy: So you have groupies? O'Brien: Oh yes. And other fans. Drifters. Prisoners. Insomniacs. Cab Drivers, who must watch a lot of late night TV, seem to love me lately. They keep saying, "You will not pay, you will not pay, you make me happy!"
Playboy: How happy did your new contract make you? O'Brien: Terrified. The network said, "We're all set for five years." I said, "Shut up, shut up! I can't think that far ahead." Tonight, for instance, I do my jokes, then interview Elton John and Tim Meadows. We finished taping about 6:30. By 6:45 my memory was erased and my only thought was, Tomorrow: John Tesh. And I started to obsess about John Tesh. Sad, don't you think?
Playboy: Not too sad. You got off to a rocky start but now you're so hot that People magazine recently said, "that was then, this is wow." O'Brien: I try not to pay much attention. Since I ignored the critics who said I should shoot myself in the head with a German Luger, it would be cheating to tear out nice reviews now and rub them all over my body, giggling. Though I have thought about it.
Playboy: Tell us about your trademark gag. You interview a photo of Bill Clinton or some other celeb, and a pair of superimposed lips provide outrageous answers. O'Brien: We call it the Clutch Cargo bit, after that terrible old cartoon series. They saved money on animation by superimposing real lips on the cartoons. I wanted to do topical jokes in a cartoony way -- not just Conan doing quips at a desk. TV is visual; I want things to look funny. But we're not Saturday Night Live; we couldn't spend $100,000 on it. Hence, the cheap, cheesy lips, You'd be surprised how many people we fool.
Playboy: Viewers believe that's really the president yelling, "Yee-haw! Who's got a joint?" O'Brien: It's strange. You may know intellectually that Clinton doesn't talk like Foghorn Leghorn. Ninety-eight percent of your brain knows the president wouldn't say, "Whoa Conan get a load of that girl!" But there are a few brain cells that aren't sure. When Bob Dole was running for president we had him doing a past-life regression: "My cave, get away." And then back further, "Must form flippers to crawl on to rocky soil," he says. There may be people out there who believe that Bob Dole was the first amphibian.
Playboy: Do you ever go too far? O'Brien: The fun is in going too far. It's a nice device because you get Bill Clinton to do the nastiest Bill Clinton jokes. We'll have Clinton making fart noises while I say "Sir! Please!"
Playboy: Are you enjoying your job now, with your new success? O'Brien: Well, there are surprises. I hate surprises. Like most comics, I'm a control freak. But I am learning that the show works best when things are out of control. Tonight I ask Elton John if he likes being neighbors with Joan Collins. He says he isn't neighbors with Joan Collins. He lives next door to Tina Turner. So I panic -- huge mistake! But Elton saves the day. "Joan Collins, Tina Turner, it doesn't matter. Either way I could borrow a wig," he says. Huge laugh, all because I fucked up. Later he surprised me by blurting out that he's hung like a horse. The camera cuts to me shaking my head: That crazy Elton. What can I do? Of course, I'm delighted that he went too far.
Playboy: That "What can I do?" look resembles a classic take of Jack Benny's. O'Brien: There's an old saying in literature: "Good poets borrow; great poets steal." I think T.S. Eliot stole it from Ezra Pound. Comics steal, too. Constantly. When I watched Johnny Carson, I noticed that he got a few takes from Benny and Bob Hope. When a comedy writer told me how much Woody Allen had borrowed from Hope, I thought, What? They're nothing alike. Then I went back and watched Son of Paleface, and there's Hope, the nervous city guy backing up on his heels, wringing his hands and saying, "Sorry, I'll just be moving along." Now look at early Woody Allen. You see big authority figures and Woody nervously saying, "Look, I'll just be on my way." Of course Woody made it his own, but he must have watched and loved Bob Hope.
Playboy: Who are your role models? O'Brien: Carson. Woody Allen. SCTV. Peter Sellers. When Peter Sellers died I felt such a loss, thinking, There won't be anymore of that. There's some Steve Martin in my false bravado with female guests: "Why, hel-lo there!" And I won't deny having some Letterman in my bones.
Playboy: You were surprise as Letterman's successor. At first you seemed like the wrong choice. O'Brien: I didn't get ratings. That doesn't mean I didn't get laughs. Yes, I had a giant pompadour and I looked like a rockabilly freak. I was too excited, pushed too hard, and people said, "That guy isn't a polished performer." Fine! But it isn't my goal to be Joe Handsomehead cool, smooth talk show host. Late Night with Conan O'Brien is supposed to be a work in progress, and now that we've had some success there's a danger of our getting too polished and morphing into something smoothly professional. Which would suck.
Do you know why I wanted this show? Because Late Night with David Letterman played with the rules and it looked like fun. Here was a place where people did risky comedy every night for millions of people. We had to keep this thing alive. There should be a place on a big network where people are still messing around.
Playboy: How bad were your early days on the show? O'Brien: Bad. Dave left here under a cloud: his fans and the media were angry with NBC. Then NBC picks a guy with crazy hair and a weird name. And the world says, "Harvard? Those guys are assholes." I sincerely hope that the winter of December 1993, our first winter, was the worst time I will ever have. I'd go out to do the warm up and the back two rows of seats would be empty. That's hard to look at. I would tell a joke and then hear someone whisper, "Who's he? Where's Dave?"
Playboy: You had trouble getting guests. O'Brien: Bob Denver canceled on us. We shot a test show with Al Lewis of The Munsters. We did the clutch cargo thing with a photo of Herman Munster. Unfortunately, Fred Gwynne, who played Herman, had recently died, and Al Lewis kept pointing at the screen, saying, "You're dead! I was at your funeral!"
Playboy: For months you got worried notes from network executives. What did they say? O'Brien: They were worried. The fact that Lorne Michaels was involved bought me some time. But Lorne had turned to me at the start and said, "OK, Conan. What do you want to do?" Now television critics were after me and the network was starting to realize what a risk I was. Suggestions came fast and furious. I kept the note that said, "Why don't you just die?"
Playboy: Did they suggest ways to be funnier? O'Brien: They were more specific and tactical. The network gets very specific data. Say there was a drop in ratings between 12:44 and 12:48 when I was talking to Jon Bon Jovi. I'll be told, "Don't ever talk to him again" Or they'll want me to tease viewers into staying with us: "You should tease that -- say, 'We'll have nudity coming up next!'"
Playboy: You did come close to being cancelled. O'Brien: We were cancelled.
Playboy: Really? You have never admitted that. O'Brien: This is the first time I've talked about it. When I had been on for about a year, there was a meeting at the network. They decided to cancel my show. They said, "It's cancelled." Next day they realized they had nothing to put in the 12:30 slot, so we got a reprieve.
Playboy: Were you worried sick? O'Brien: I went into denial. I tried hard not to think, Yes, I'm bad on the air and my show has none of the things a TV show needs to survive. We had no ratings. No critics in our corner. Advertisers didn't like us. Affiliates wanted to drop us. Sometimes I'd meet a programming director from a local station where we had no rating at all. The guy would show me a printout with no number for Late Night's rating, just a hash mark or pound sign. I didn't dare think about that when I went out to do the show.
Playboy: Are you defending denial? O'Brien: How else does anyone get through a terrible experience? The odds were against me. Rationally, I didn't have much chance. Denial was my only friend. When I look back on the first year, it's like a scene from an old war movie: Ordinary guy gets thrown into combat, somehow beats impossible odds, staggers to safety. His buddy say, "You could have been killed!" The guy stops and thinks. "Could have been killed?" he says. His eyes cross and he faints.
Playboy: How did you dodge the bullet? O'Brien: There were people at NBC who stood up for me. I will always be indebted to Don Ohlmeyer, who stuck to his guns. Don said, "We chose this guy. We should stick with him unless we get a better plan." He was brutally honest. He came to me and said, "Give me about a 15 percent bump in the ratings and you'll stay on the air. If not, we're going to move on."
Playboy: Ohlmeyer started his career in the sports division. O'Brien: Exactly, his take was, "You're on our team." Of course, it wasn't exactly rational of Don to hope I'd be 15 percent funnier. It was like telling a farmer, "It better rain this week or we'll take your farm away."
Playboy: What did you say to Ohlmeyer? O'Brien: There wasn't time. I had to go out and do a monologue. But I will always be indebted to Don because he told me the truth. Wait a minute -- you have tricked me into talking lovingly about an NBC executive. Let me say that there were others who were beneath contempt -- executives who wouldn't know a good show if it swam up their asses and lit a campfire.
Playboy: Finally the ratings went your way. Hard work rewarded? O'Brien: Well, I also paid off the Nielsen people. That was $140,000 well spent.
Playboy: Ohlmeyer plus bribery saved you? O'Brien: There was something else. Just when everyone was kicking the crap out of the show, Letterman defended me.
Playboy: Letterman had signed off on NBC saying, "I don't really know Conan O'Brien, but I heard he killed someone." O'Brien: Then I pick up the paper and he's saying he thinks I am going to make it. "They do some interesting, innovative stuff over there," he says. "I think Conan will prevail." And then he came on as a guest. Remember, this was when we were at our nadir. There was no Machiavellian reason for David Letterman, who at the time was the biggest thing in show business, to be on my show.
Playboy: Why did he do it? O'Brien: I'm still not sure. Maybe out of a sense of honor. Fair play. And it woke me up. It made me think. Hey, we have a real fucking television show here.
Of six or seven pivotal points in my short history here, that was the first and maybe the biggest. I wouldn't be sitting here -- I probably wouldn't even exist today -- if he hadn't done our show.
Playboy: The Late Night wars were hardly noted for friendly gestures. O'Brien: How little you understand. Jay, Dave and I pal around all the time. We often ride a bicycle built for three up to the country. "Nice job with Fran Drescher!" "Thanks, pal. You weren't so bad with John Tesh." We sleep in triple-decker bunk beds and snore in unison like the Three Stooges.
Playboy: You talk more about Letterman than your NBC teammate Leno. O'Brien: I hate the "Leno or Letterman, who's better?" question. I can tell you that Jay has been great to me. He calls me occasionally.
Playboy: To say what? O'Brien: (Doing Leno's voice) "Hey, liked that bit you did last night." Or he'll say he saw we got a good rating. I call him at work, too. It can be a strange conversation because we're so different. Jay, for instance, really loves cars. He's got antique cars with kerosene lanterns, cars that run on peat moss. He'll be telling me about some classic car he has, made entirely of brass and leather, and I'll say, "Yeah, man, I got the Taurus with the vinyl." One thing we have in common is bad guests. There are certain actors, celebrities with nothing to say, who move through the talk show world wreaking havoc. They lay waste to Dave's town and Jay's town, then head my way.
Playboy: You must be getting some good guests. Your ratings have shown a marked improvement. O'Brien: Remember, when you're on at 12:30 the Nielsens are based on 80 people. My ratings drop if one person has a head cold and goes to bed early.
Playboy: Actually, you're seen by about 3 million people a night. Your ratings would be even higher if college dorms weren't excluded from the Nielsens. How many points does that cost you? O'Brien: I told you I'm an idiot. Now I have to do math too?
Playboy: Do you still get suggestions from NBC executives? O'Brien: Not as many. The number of notes you get is inversely proportional to your ratings.
Playboy: What keeps you motivated? O'Brien: Superstition. We have a stagehand, Bobby Bowman, who holds up the curtain when I run out for the monologue. He is the last person I see before the show starts, and I have to make him laugh before I go out. It started with mild jabs: "Bobby, you're drunk again." Bobby laughs, "Heehee."" Then it was, "Still having trouble with the wife, Bobby?" But after hundreds of shows, you find yourself running out of lines. It's gotten to where I do crass things at the last second. I'll put his hand on my ass and yell, "You fucking pervert!" Or drop to my knees and say, "Come on, Bobby, I'll give you a blow job!"
"Ha-ha. Conan, you're crazy," he says. But even that stuff wears off. Soon, I'll be making the writers work late to give me new jokes for Bobby.
Playboy: Did you plan to be a talk show host or did you fall into the job? O'Brien: I was an Irish Catholic kid from St. Ignatius parish in Brookline, outside of Boston. And that meant: Don't call attention to yourself. Don't ask for too much when the pie comes around. Don't get a girl pregnant and fuck up your life.
Playboy: Were you an alter boy? O'Brien: I wanted to be an alter boy, but the priest at St. Ignatius said, "No, no. You're good on your feet, kid," and made me a lector. A scripture reader at Mass. He was the one who spotted my talent.
Playboy: What did you think of sex in those days? O'Brien: I was sexually repressed. At 16 I still thought human reproduction was by mitosis.
Playboy: How did you get over your sexual repression? O'Brien: Who says I got over it? My leg has been jiggling this whole time.
Playboy: What were you like in high school? O'Brien: Like a crane galumphing down the hall. A crane with weird hair, bad skin and Clearasil. Big enough for basketball but lousy at it. My older brothers were better. I would compensate by running around the court doing comedy, saying, "Look out, this player has a drug addiction. He's incredibly egotistical."
I was an asshole at home, too. My little brother Justin loved playing cops and robbers, but I kept tying him up with bureaucratic bullshit. When he'd catch me, I'd say, "I get to call my lawyer." Then it was, "OK, Justin, we're at trial and you've been charged with illegal arrest. Fill out these forms in triplicate." Justin was eight; he hated all the lawsuits and countersuits. He just cried.
Playboy: Were you a class clown? O'Brien: Never. I was never someone who walked into a room full of strangers and started telling jokes. You had to get to know me before I could make you laugh. The same thing happened with Late Night. I needed to get the right rhythm with Andy and Max and the audience.
Playboy: So how did you finally learn about sex? O'Brien: My parents gave me a book, but it was useless. At the crucial moment, all it showed was a man and a woman with the bed covers pulled up to their chins. I tried to find out more from friends, but it didn't help. One childhood friend told me it was like parking a car in a garage. I kept worrying about poisonous fumes. What if the fumes build up? Should you shut off the engine?
Playboy: For all your talk about being repressed, you can be rowdy on the air. O'Brien: The show is my escape valve. When I tear off my shirt and gyrate my pelvis like Robert Plant, feigning orgasm into the microphone, that shows how repressed I am -- a guy who wants to push his sex at the lens but can only do it as a joke.
Playboy: Aren't you tempted to live it up? O'Brien: I always imagined that if I were a TV star I would live the way I pictured Johnny Carson living. Carousing, stepping out of a limo wearing a velvet ascot with a model on my arm. Now that I have the TV show, I drive up to Connecticut on the weekends and tool around in my car. I could probably join a free-sex cult, smoke crack between orgies and drive sports cars into swimming pools, and my Catholic guilt would still be there, throbbing like a toothache. Be careful. If something good happens, something bad is on the way.
Playboy: Yet you don't mind licking the supermodels. O'Brien: At one point a few of them lived in my building, women who are so beautiful they almost look weird, like aliens. To me, a woman who has a certain approachable amount of beauty becomes almost funny. It's the same with male supermodels. They look like big puppets. So while I admire their beauty I probably won't be "romantically linked" with a model. I'd catch my reflection in a ballroom mirror and break up laughing.
Playboy: The horny Roy Orbison growl you use on gorgeous guests sounds real enough -- O'Brien: Oh, I've been doing that shit since high school. It just never worked before.
Playboy: Your father is a doctor, your mother an attorney. What do they think of their son the comedian? O'Brien: My dad was the one who told me denial was a virtue. "Denial is how people get through horrible things," he said. He also cut out a newspaper article in which I said I was making money off something for which I should probably be treated. So true, he thought. But when I got an Emmy for helping write Saturday Night Live, my parents put it on the mantel next to the crucifix. Here's Jesus looking over, saying, "Wow, I saved mankind from sin, but I wish I had an Emmy."
Playboy: Ever been in therapy? O'Brien: Yes. I don't trust it. I have told therapists that I don't particularly want to feel good. "Repression and fear, that's my fuel." But the therapists said that I had nothing to worry about. "Don't worry Conan you will always be plenty fucked up."
Playboy: When a female guest comes out, how do you know whether to shake her hand or kiss her? Is that rehearsed O'Brien: No, and it's awkward. If you go to shake her hand and her head starts coming right at you, you have to change strategy fast. I have thought about using the show to make women kiss me, but that would probably creep out the people at home. I decided not to kiss Elton John.
Playboy: Do you get all fired up if Cindy Crawford or Rebecca Romijn does the show? O'Brien: I like making women laugh. Always have, ever since I discovered you can get girls' attention by acting like an ass. That's one of the joys of the show -- I'm working my eyebrows and going grrr and she's laughing, the audience is laughing. It's all a big put-on and I'm thinking. This is great. Here is a beautiful woman who has no choice but to put up with this shit.
But it's not always put on. Sometimes they flirt back. Sometimes there's a bit of chemistry. That happened with Jennifer Connelly of The Rocketeer.
Playboy: One guest, Jill Hennessy, took off her pants for you. Then you removed yours. Even Penn and Teller took off their pants. O'Brien: Something comes over me. It happened with Rebecca Romijn -- I was practically climbing her. Those are the times when Andy and the audience seem to disappear and it's just me and this lovely woman sitting there flirting. I keep expecting a waiter to say, "More wine, Monsieur?"
Playboy: Would you lick the wine bottle? O'Brien: It's true, there's a lot of licking on the show. I have licked guests. I have licked Andy. Comedy professionals will read this and say, "Great work, Conan. Impressive." But I have learned that if you lick a guest, people laugh. If I pick this shoe off the floor, examine it, Hmmm, and then lick it, people laugh. I learned this lesson on The Simpsons, where I was the writer who was forever trying to entertain the other writers. I still try desperately to make our writers laugh, which is probably a sign of sickness since they work for me now. Licking is one of those things that look funny.
Playboy: Johnny Carson never licked Ed McMahon. O'Brien: We are much more physical and more stupid than the old Tonight Show. Even in our offices before the show there's always some writer acting out a scene crashing his head through my door. A behind-the-scenes look at our show might frighten people.
Playboy: One night you showed a doctored photo of Craig T. Nelson having sex with Jerry Van Dyke. Did they complain about it? O'Brien: I haven't heard from them. Of course I'm blessed not to be a part of the celebrity pond. I have a television show in New York, an NBC outpost. I don't run with or even run into many Hollywood people.
Playboy: You also announced that Tori Spelling has a penis. O'Brien: I did not. Polly the Peacock said that.
Playboy: Another character you use to say the outrageous stuff. O'Brien: Polly is not popular with the network.
Playboy: You mock Fabio, too. O'Brien: If he sues me, it'll be the best thing that ever happened. A publicity bonanza: Courtroom sketches of Fabio with his man-boobs quivering, shaking his fist, and me shouting at him across the courtroom. I'm not afraid of Fabio. He knows where to find me. I'm saying it right here for the record: Fabio, let's get it on.
Playboy: Ever have a run-in with an angry celeb? O'Brien: I did a Kelsey Grammar joke a few years ago, something about his interesting lifestyle, then heard through the network that he was upset. He had appeared on my show and expected some support. At this point my intellect says, "Kelsey Grammar is a public figure. I was in the right." Then I saw him in an airport. Kelsey didn't see me at first: I could have kept walking. But there he was, eating a cruller in the airport lounge. I thought I should go over. I said hello and then said, "Kelsey, I'm sorry if I upset you." And he was glad. He looked relieved. He said, "Oh, that's OK." We both felt better.
....See my other post with the last third of the interview

Everyone Keeps Asking So Here You Are:
Fallout4.esm
DLCRobot.esm
DLCworkshop01.esm
DLCCoast.esm
DLCworkshop02.esm
DLCworkshop03.esm
DLCNukaWorld.esm
DLCUltraHighResolution.esm
HUDFramework.esm
ArmorKeywords.esm
SBRsFramework.esm
HiPolyFacesCompanionPlugin.esl
FFO.esm
TrueStormsFO4.esm
ExtendedWeaponSystem.esm
Endless Warfare.esm
IllumBillboardsAIO.esl
CROSS_CoA.esl
TeslaHeavyGun.esl
7 More SPECIAL points.esl
Cyber Arms.esl
Skb-MinigunsRebirth.esl
GoodneighborExpanded.esp
ODT - Raider Armors Retextured.esl
CWRaiders.esl
TCDeyes.esp
Dogs can grab player.esl
DamnApocalypse_CORE.esm
KillTips_by_tooun.esl
Natural Roads.esl
Serene Skin.esp
FIS-Naming-Weap-Armo-EN.esp
Diello_ExtraIconsForFIS.esp
Armorsmith Extended.esp
[KB-47]-INSTITUTE.esp
DamnApocalypse_Loot.esp
FFO.esp
A Forest.esp
BetterCombatZone.esp
ENBLightsHDRPatch.esp
DamnApocalypse_PowerArmor.esp
HiPolyFaces.esp
CBBE.esp
RaiderOverhaul.esp
OutcastsAndRemnants.esp
CrimeTown.esp
Wasteland Illumination.esp
GoodneighborExpanded[Patch-Crimetown].esp
Depravity.esp
AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
Stm_DiamondCityExpansion.esp
MikeMooresMCAM.esp
CheatTerminal.esp
[KB-47]SYNTHS.esp
Goodneighbor Apartment.esp
GoodneighborExpanded[Patch-GoodneighborApartment].esp
TWH_TheWayHome.esp
CruiseShipWreck.esp
Mercenary.esp
Forced Evolution.esp
ProjectValkyrie.esp
LimaOutpost.esp
MK3_Takedown_Rifle.esp
VD_SIGMCXVirtus.esp
MW1Akilo47.esp
PKMnv.esp
MW1Mike4.esp
SPR300.esp
[XHX] Metro Exodus Stallion.esp
BF1 Animations - Double Barrel Shotgun v2.3.esp
CROSS_MojaveManhunter.esp
MK18.esp
Remington700.esp
LString_Bow.esp
AER15.esp
AAC_HoneyBadger.esp
F4NVServiceRifleRedux.esp
RPD.esp
AKeVolk.esp
M2Agency.esp
WattzLaserGun.esp
HuntingRevolver.esp
ButtonsCompanion.esp
llamaCompanionHeatherv2.esp
LeeEnfieldNo4MkI.esp
EndlessWarfareDLCFixes.esp
STREETSWEEPER.esp
(SKI-NotDave) P-5 Power Armor.esp
Ranger.esp
NAC.esp
Burst Impact Blast FX.esp
Ryan.esp
FnScar.esp
CitySurvivor.esp
Vargo52.esp
MP7.esp
OP_Workbench.esp
HK_MP5.esp
X12Plasmacaster.esp
GIAT_FAMAS.esp
Mossberg500.esp
Glock19x.esp
TEC9.esp
AX50.esp
Modern Weapon Replacer - Glock 19x FX0x01 - 10mm Pistols.esp
SigSauerP320.esp
Modern Weapon Replacer - Sig Sauer P320 M17 - Deliverer.esp
SideAim.esp
Black Widow Suit.esp
ScreenArcherMenu.esp
SettleObjExpandPack.esp
SettleObjExpandPack-AllLightShadowEnabler.esp
PhotoMode.esp
Better_Notes.esp
SBRPatch-GIAT_FAMAS_SA.esp
SBRPatch-SeeThroughScopes_SideAim_Compatibility.esp
Insignificant Object Remover.esp
Realistic Movement Speed.esp
The Eyes Of Beauty.esp
KSHairdos.esp
ChildrenOfAtomFace.esp
Stalker Suit.esp
StalkerSuit - CoA.esp
Triggermen FC.esp
Famas_Addon.esp
Faster Terminal Displays (20x).esp
Complaint of the commonwealth.esp
LostWorld.esp
Modern Military Pack.esp
VD&AO_SIG_MCX_LT.esp
ESPExplorerFO4.esp
Faster Stations.esp
Reverb and Ambiance Overhaul.esp
TrueStormsFO4-FarHarbor.esp
TrueStormsFO4-NukaWorld-FH-Compat.esp
NAC-FH.esp
NAC-NW.esp
Nac-TrueStormsFHPatch.esp
TrueStormsFO4-GlowingSeaExtraRads.esp
TrueStormsFO4-FarHarborExtraRads.esp
Vault-Tec Armor Redux - Modular Expansion & Fixes.esp
MW2022_Ghost_Mexico_Urban.esp
Rusty Face Fix.esp
nino.esp
Linglongvita.esp
TeslaHeavyAuto_LLInjector.esp
MWM4 Ultimate Redux_Warfighter_No TR_LLI.esp
Factor.esp
Factor_LLInjector.esp
AX50_LLInjector.esp
AKeVolk_LLInjector.esp
AAlpha12.esp
AAlpha12_LLI.esp
Tactical Flashlights.esp
Tactical Flashlights - Settings.esp
USP .45_by_tooun.esp
F4NV_44_Magnum.esp
SV-98.esp
PIP-Pad.esp
AzarPonytailHairstyles.esp
VGDoubleBarrel.esp
VGDoubleBarrelReplacer.esp
VaultTecSecurityReplacement.esp
VaultTec Chest Armor.esp
HoneyBadger Expansion.esp
XP-GEM.esp
AlysrazaOverlays.esp
CombatArmor_Remodel_mr.esp
Alternative Satellite World Maps.esp
VividFallout - AiO - 2k.esp
Grasslands - Healthy.esp
KSHairdosExtra.esp
EndlessWarfare_MechBots.esp
Campsite.esp
Smoke-able Cigars.esp
LooksMenu.esp
3dscopes.esp
MwOtter.esp
RRRebelArmor.esp
Toxic Raider Armour.esp
CROSS_Cybernetics.esp
CROSS_Jetpack.esp
Project Elimination - PMC Combat Suit.esp
Ev_CPA10.esp
EV_CPA10_LL.esp
GammaGunRedux.esp
[BXX] Die Hardman's mask.esp
[KB-47]-ModernVehicles-V1.4.esp
Desert Punk Raiders.esp
[MW2022] Shadow Company.esp
LeatherHood.esp
MWR_Opfor.esp
CoD MW OpFor - Minutemen.esp
MinutemenEnforcer.esp
Modern Replacer - Tape.esp
Modern Replacer - Antiseptic.esp
Modern Replacer - Blowtorch.esp
Modern Replacer - Jerry Can.esp
Modern Replacer - Cement.esp
Modern Replacer - Gears.esp
Modern Replacer - Ashtray.esp
Modern Replacer - Concrete.esp
Modern Replacer - Oil Filter.esp
Modern Replacer - Fiber Optic.esp
[KB-47]ROBOTS.esp
Robots_CR .esp
[KB-47] DC Police.esp
AVBMusket.esp
MutantBear.esp
Energy Weapon Replacer - AER15 - Institute Guns.esp
M2_Flamethrower_2.2.esp
Energy Weapon Replacer - Wattz Laser Gun - Laser Guns.esp
Modern Weapon Replacer - MP7 - Submachine Guns.esp
Modern Weapon Replacer - AnotherOne TEC-9 - Pipe Guns.esp
Modern Weapon Replacer - Service Rifle Deadpool2099 - Assault Rifles.esp
Modern Weapon Replacer - FN SCAR-H - Combat Rifles.esp
Modern Weapon Replacer - Izhmash SV-98 - Lever Action Rifles.esp
Remington700_Addon.esp
X12-PlasmaReplacer.esp
GoodneighborExpanded[Patch-Previs].esp
FFHD.esp
Addiction Overhaul.esp
Dreaded Deathclaws 4k.esp
Gloomy Glass.esp
M8rDisableCreationClub.esp
SurvivalOptions.esp
MoreEnemies.esp
Infinite Armory.esp
Infinite Armory - Brotherhood of Steel BoS.esp
dynamicHelmet.esp
NemesisStandaloneHappo.esp
Q_RagdollPhysicsNoCollision.esp
TCD.esp
TCDOverlays.esp
TCDOverlaysSET.esp
TCDM.esp
Arbitration - Better Combat AI.esp
NPC Accuracy Revised.esp
[ARRETH] FGEP-DE.esp
VeryZenFGEP_4k.esp
Project Reality Footsteps FO4.esp
Project Reality Footsteps FO4 Expansion.esp
[ETH]FGEP-AmbienceReducer.esp
[ARRETH] FGEP-DE NoKnockDown.esp
Arbitration - Stealth Overhaul.esp
Arbitration - Sneak Detection Distance Increase (Half).esp
Arbitration - Reduced Grenade Spam.esp
Arbitration - Molotov.esp
Arbitration - Farther Grenade Detection.esp
Power Armor HUD Switcher.esp
CompanionStatus-Settings.esp
CompanionStatus.esp
WmkActiveEffects.esp
ConditionBoy.esp
ImmersiveAnimationFramework.esp
IAF - Far Harbor & Nuka World.esp
War Hammer and Greatsword sets.esp
RB_AehersinEyes.esp
SF Beards N Staches.esp
TBOS-AntoHairPack.esp
ValiusHDTextures4K.esp
M8rDisablePipboyEffects.esp
1FOM_FireAxe.esp
[KB-47] Riley Dogmeat Replacer.esp
Modern Replacer - Car Battery.esp
Modern Replacer - Alarm Clock.esp
Modern Replacer - Acid.esp
Modern Replacer - Laptop.esp
Modern Replacer - Butane.esp
Modern Replacer - Hotplate.esp
VtawWardrobe8.esp
SPECIAL_Raider_Outfit.esp
Friffy_Cait Outfit_Standalone.esp
NIRogueCourser.esp
VD_SIGMCXVirtus_SA.esp
StartMeUp.esp
MAIM Distributor.esp
Hot Diggity - Maim 2 Full Patch.esp
MAIM 2 - DA Loot Module.esp
Clarity.esp
EnhancedLightsandFX.esp
AlootHomePlate.esp
Pip-Boy Flashlight.esp
PIP-Pad_Pip-BoyFlashlight.esp
LooksMenu Customization Compendium.esp
aBitPrettierBOSFaces.esp
DiscreteFemaleSkeleton.esp
PIP-Pad_LMCC.esp
MAIM 2.esp
MAIM 2 - Dismemberment Patch.esp
MAIM 2 - EZ Keywords.esp

I would like help getting as many of these mods working as possible on vortex or mo2 I'm nor sure wich as I'm new to pc and modding in general
Lockpick bar
Have a beer
Desert inspired food drinks and stuff
Immersive alcoholic drinks
Farming resources
Dine and dash
True cannibal overhaul
Settlement menu manager
PreWar binoculars
Modern replacer chems and medicine
Fall evil zombie mega pack
Gibs of glory
Better living through chems
Wasteland imports
OCDecorator
Tactical distraction system
No more duplicate chems
Animated chems redone
Raider gangs extended
Hookers of the commonwealth
South of the sea
Fungal forest
Cannabis commonwealth
Mcm
UFO4P
Armorsmith extended
Full dialog interface
True storms
STS
Cheat terminal
SKE
mercenary pack
Human cooking
Better locational damage
Libe dismemberment
Ptsd mental health
Taxidermy expanded
Wanderlust
Butchermeat rack
Wasteland cannabis visuals
The weed mod
Alchohol and tobacco overhaul
Intoxicants of the commonwealth
Smokeable cigars cigarettes
Mutant menagire lfaw
Forced evolution
High fps physics fix
Long loading times fix
FGEP
Zombie Walkers
Replaceable armor plates
Right handed hunting rifle
Some assembly required
Mosin
Backpacks of the commonwealth
Hunting shotgun
Automatically lowered weapons
Survival options
Point lookout
Load accelerator
Scrap everything
Simple fallout 4 downgrader
Immersive mouth and teeth
M1 garand
Boston fps fix
Campsite
Grasslands
Better f4se console
Everyone's best friend
Northland diggers
Better booze
Hunter of the commonwealth
All Americans 2.0
Gun for hire
Harvest able cannabis
Commonwealth fishing
Fake killcam
Wildlife overhaul
Sofa surfer
Canteens of the commonwealth
Give me that bottle
Animated radaway
Immersive settlers
Bootable cars
Realistic bullets velocity and gravity
Realistic headshots
Classic radiation poisoning
BCR
CHW
Survivalist bus
Fo4 wheel menu
Def ui
Maim
Advanced needs 76
Crime and punishment
Journey
Npcs travel
The train
Damn apocalypse
Stem mk ii
ACF
ppsh 41
German mp40
M1 carbine
Model 1897
Grease gun smg
Springfield m1903
Tactical reload
Bren gun
Lee Enfield
Mauser pistol
Luger
Mg42 and mg34
Volkssturmgewher
Stg44
Fg42
Kar 98k
Holotime
Get out of my face
Better Stine statues
Earring of the commonwealth
A better world cabin
Porshet5
The expired entrance
Extended dialog interface
True grass
Diamond city radio extended
Munitions ballistics
Tracers light em up
Visable bullets
Weapons of fate
Spitfire
A cannibal in concord
The fens sheriff dept
The bleachers
Sheikh framework
SIP
another pine forest mod
Nice bush
Inside jobs
Recoil shake and low ammo sounds
Sprint reload
Bullet casing redone
Gun smoke
Running breathing
QMW
fallsouls unpaused
Locky bastard
Uneducated shooter
Fallout 2287
Lighthouse papyrus extender
Sim settlements 2 all
A forest
MCAM
Scopes framework
K9 harness
Clothing of the commonwealth
PMC
Pmc operators pack
CBBE
Pip boy flashlight
Hallcat power armor
Raider overhaul
Russian stimpack
Stimpack helps you breathe
Remington new army
Ghille mod redux
McMillan cs5
TAC
SKK FAST START
SKK FAST START LOCATION
SKK survival utilities
SKK corpse looting
Blusher saber
Sandbag fortification
Longer powerlines
CHEF
PWR
distillery
Chems and alchohol visuals
IAF
iAF ALCHOHOL
Alchohol effects
Cigarette card
Cigarette in mouth
Visual reload
Immersion wastelanders
Looks menu
Looks menu cc
Commonwealth cuts
Hunter of the commo wealth
F4SE
More feral ghouls
West tek tactical gloves
Awkcr
M1a
Munitions
Remote Explosives
Anarchists cook book 1 and 2
Weapon debris fix
Unique raider Gans and patrols
Thubajumbas raider pa
VIS
Eyes of beauty
Better settlers
Any help would be very appreciated I'm sorry for the long modlist

At the world’s top college of magic and technology, every day brings a new discovery -and a new disaster. The advanced experiments of the college students tend to be both ambitious and apocalyptic, with the end of the world only prevented by a mysterious time loop, and a small handful of students who retain their memories.
Surviving the loops was hard enough, but now, in his senior year, Vell Harlan must take charge of them, and deal with the fact that the whole world now knows his secrets. Everyone knows about Vell’s death and resurrection, along with the divine game he is a part of. Now Vell must contend with overly curious scientists and evil billionaires hungry for divine power while the daily doomsday cycle bombards him with terrorists, talking elephants, and the Grim Reaper himself -but if he can endure it all, the Last Goddess’s game promises the ultimate prize: power over life itself.
[Previous Chapter][Patreon][Cover Art]
The last few notes of a Roxy Rocket song echoed through Vell’s dorm, and while scrappy and dissonant, they were at least coherent. An improvement from early lessons, especially.
“Well, that didn’t hurt to listen to,” Skye said. “You’re making progress.”
“You have such a way with words,” Vell said.
“Okay, fine,” Skye said. “You’re actually making good progress for a guy who only finds time to practice every couple weeks.”
The ever-encroaching responsibilities of being a senior, the leader of the loopers, and the focus of a godly game of fate had whittled Vell’s free time down to almost nothing. The occasional guitar lessons were some of his only islands amid the storm, and a welcome excuse to spend more time with Skye.
“You want to try a few more chords?”
“My hands are starting to hurt, actually,” Vell said. He pulled away from the guitar strings and shook tense fingers loose, revealing fingertips rubbed red and raw by practice. Skye stepped forward and took him by the wrist to examine his hands.
“I do not understand how a guy like you doesn’t have thicker skin,” Skye said. “Weren’t you an actual cowboy for a while? You did rodeos and everything.”
“I wore gloves,” Vell said.
“And for the rest of the weird shit you’ve done in your life?”
Vell took a long pause.
“Yeah, I don’t know,” Vell said. “Good genes, I guess.”
“I’m not complaining, mind you, I just think-”
A loud dinging sound from Skye’s purse interrupted the conversation, and she released her grip on Vell to go answer her phone. Vell recognized those familiar chimes as the Dad Ringtone. While most contacts were set to vibrate, Skye’s father and a few other lucky high-priority contacts got their own ringtones. Vell was lucky enough to have his ringtone set to the theme song of a cartoon Skye had loved as a kid, but played at a much lower volume than the Dad Ringtone. Skye’s father didn’t call often, and when he did it was usually about something important, so she wanted to be sure to never miss a call.
“Hey dad,” Skye began. “No, now’s fine. What’s up?”
Vell set his guitar back on the shelf and relaxed while Skye continued the call.
“No, no, that’d be fine, great, even,” Skye said. “He might be a little busy, but- What?”
Skye’s delight and talking to her father shifted to mild concern.
“Dad we kind of need to- no, not tomorrow, dad,” Skye said. “Dad!”
A long silence followed as Skye held the phone frozen by her ear for a short time. She tucked it back into her purse, took a deep breath, and clapped her hands together as she spun to face Vell.
“So, good news, you’re going to get to meet my dad,” Skye squeaked.
“And the bad news?”
“Well, part one of the bad news is that it’s going to happen tomorrow,” Skye said. Vell would’ve like a little more notice, but that was far from disastrous. Part two was still waiting, though. “And part two is that I kind of maybe didn’t do a very good job describing the nature of our relationship, and he sort of a little bit thinks you’re...a hero.”
Vell waited for a part three, and there was none.
“Is that the bad news?” Vell scoffed. “I might let him down a little, but there’s worse things my girlfriend’s dad could think of me.”
“Yeah there’s definitely a few upsides, be sure to hold on to those,” Skye said. “But also, you know how I flunked out of mad scientist school?”
“Yeah?”
“Well my dad...didn’t.”
***
“Your girlfriend’s dad is a supervillain?”
“Former supervillain,” Vell corrected. He adjusted the suit coat he’d just put on. “He left the game after she was born and went white hat, now he only builds death rays and robot armies so relevant authorities can observe, learn, and prepare for the real deal.”
Having a genuine mad scientist to train with helped keep secret agents and spies ready for actual threats, and Skye’s father got to keep doing what he loved: threatening to blow up the world.
“Are you still really a supervillain if you don’t actually do any villain shit?” Hawke wondered aloud. “Isn’t he just sort a supertrainer? What would you call that?”
“I’d call it asinine,” Alex said. “We shouldn’t be condoning this behavior, much less inviting him to build a death ray on our campus.”
The Einstein-Odinson had been selected as the faux-mad scientist’s next testing ground, and due to a misunderstanding of his role on campus, Vell had been selected as his testing partner. He had to put on a tuxedo and everything, to better fit the classic secret agent trope Skye’s father was envisioning.
“Mad scientists are an important part of the scientific ecosystem,” Helena said.
“You’d know,” Samson muttered under his breath.
“Conflict breeds innovation,” Helena continued, either heedless to or deliberately ignoring his snide comment. “The arc of history requires both heroes and villains.”
“Yeah, well, as far as villains go, I prefer mine to be weird old dads with fake death rays,” Kim said. “Still, Vell, doesn’t it feel kind of weird that he doesn’t actually know you’re dating his daughter?”
“It’s fine,” Vell insisted. “It’s always awkward trying to talk to your parents about your relationship, and she just over-focused on me saving the day and helping people. Simple miscommunication.”
“And when are you resolving that miscommunication?”
“Later,” Vell said. “Skye and her dad don’t get to spend much time together anymore. They’ll take the day, and we’ll get this all sorted out later.”
A life of volcano lairs, alpine bases, and remote tropical islands did not exactly make it easy for Skye to keep up with her dad, so having him concoct a scheme right on her home turf was a good way for the two of them to spend time together. Right now, Vell’s only priority was allowing for some healthy father-daughter bonding time. And also preventing the apocalypse.
“Okay, I’m good to go,” Vell said, as he finished up the knot in his bow-tie. “Hawke, ready on comms?”
“Mission control good to go, Agent Harlan,” Hawke said. He enjoyed any apocalyptic arrangement that allowed him to stay safely behind a chair, but playing mission control was especially fun.
“Good. Samson, you’re on tech duty,” Vell said. “The rest of you, keep an eye on the island. There’s no guarantee our supervillain will actually end the world. Which feels like a weird thing to say.”
Big events usually invited big catastrophes, and a literal supervillain seemed like a prime spark for some apocalyptic fire, but Vell was not so sure. He couldn’t think of anything less likely to actually end the world than a deliberate attempt to do so. All the loopers agreed having some backup eyes on other potential disasters might be warranted.
“Let’s just get this over with,” Alex said. She was the first to leave, everyone else filtered into their respective roles to play soon enough. Samson walked alongside Vell as he left the lair.
“Hey, do I have to put up the whole mission control act like Hawke was doing?”
“Not if you don’t want to,” Vell said. “Play it up a little if Skye’s dad is around, maybe, but like, right now we can just talk normally.”
“Okay, cool. Got your shit right here,” Samson said, as he hefted a large bag of gadget. “Standard spy bullshit. Gizmo watch, secret cufflink radios, pen with a concealed laser cutter, got it all right here.”
“Thanks,” Vell said. “Where’d you find all this stuff?”
“I just asked,” Samson said with a shrug. “Island full of supergenius weirdos, most of them had this kind of stuff just lying around.”
“Convenient. Did you make a list of everyone you got this stuff from?”
“So we can keep an eye on them? Yeah.”
“So I can give it back later,” Vell corrected. “But yeah, actually, knowing about the laser pen guy might be a good idea.”
“We’ll know where to start with any laser-based apocalypses,” Samson said.
“Good instinct,” Vell said. The two of them walked out of the building and towards the docks. “Am I walking weird? I’ve never worn a tux before.”
“Little stiff, but I think it’s working in your favor. You look more serious.”
“Great, thanks,” Vell said. He stepped up to the edge of the docks and strapped on his gadget watch before checking the time on it. “Should be here soon.”
“You need me to stick around?”
“No, you’re good,” Vell said. “Thanks for the help.”
Samson excused himself before the chaos started in full. Vell felt like an idiot standing around in a tux for a minute or two, until he was joined by someone in an equally odd outfit. Skye joined him in waiting on the docks, wearing a dress with long sleeves and a short skirt over sparkling tights and some very high-heeled boots.
“Very gogo dancer,” Vell said.
“Yeah, dad’s really into that whole Cold War era 60’s style,” Skye said. “Apparently this is what a ‘proper villainess’ looks like to him.”
“Could be worse, could be the catsuit kind of female villain.”
“Ugh, don’t get me started,” Skye said. “Every time he took me to work conferences I had to watch grown women try to waddle around in pleather bodysuits.”
“Supervillains have conferences?”
“Oh yeah, surprisingly good ones,” Skye said. “Especially if you’re a little girl who likes genetically engineered sharks.”
“Oh, so that’s where you got your start.”
Skye nodded. Her penchant for genetic engineering had struck at an early age. Her father had initially been excited for her to get into the family business, but it turned out Skye just liked fucking with fish DNA, and didn’t have much skill in all the non-genetic engineering parts of mad science. He was proud of her anyway.
After shifting on uncomfortably high heels for the umpteenth time, Skye checked her phone and texted her father.
“He says he’s pulling up right now,” Skye said. Vell scanned the horizon and saw nothing coming across the ocean.
“Is he at the right-”
Vell was cut off, and forced to step back, as the ocean started to churn. The waves parted to reveal a jet-black submarine with a towering, jagged skull carved into the prow.
“Oh, right, supervillain,” Vell said.
The imposing submersible drifted to a halt, and a hatched on the side hissed open. Red lights beamed out from the darkness within, and a few seconds later, an armored killbot marched down a boarding ramp, flanked by a towering man in a long white labcoat. He had a jagged streak of black through his otherwise gray hair, and wore heavy glasses with thick black lenses that obscured his gaze and shadowed his face.
“Hi dad,” Skye said.
“Hello dear,” said the man behind the murder machine. He stepped off the boarding ramp onto the dock, as another killbot exited to flank him, and fixed his dark glasses on Vell. “And as for you...I am Doc-”
“Doc” stopped his imposing introduction to have a coughing fit. Skye stepped up and put a hand on his shoulder.
“Dad, did you take your meds today?”
“I did, I did,” the Doc said, between coughs. “Just a climate thing. I got on the damn submarine in Seattle, now we’re in the tropics, there’s pressure differentials, humidity.”
He let out a few more coughs and then cleared his throat loudly, before regaining his previous composure.
“Now, as I was saying,” he continued. “I am Doc Ragnarok!”
His boisterous shout failed to echo in the open air of the docks.
“Oh, good lord, that was terrible,” Doc Ragnarok said. “Can I try again?”
“I wouldn’t bother,” Vell said. “We’re by the beach, open air, the acoustics are terrible.”
“Oh, yes, you’re right,” Doc Ragnarok agreed. “Finally, someone who appreciates the details. You must be Vell, then, or is it Agent Harlan? Do you have a codename I should be using?’
“It’s just Harlan. Vell Harlan.”
“Yes, Skye has told me quite a bit about you,” Doc said. “You’ve escaped kidnapping attempts, outwitted undead thieves, stolen secret treasures.”
“Oh, he’s, uh, also a really nice guy, very helpful, top student,” Skye said, laying groundwork for the eventual boyfriend reveal.
“I expect nothing less,” Doc Ragnarok said. “I can’t begin to tell you how excited I am to face off against someone with real credentials again, Mr. Harlan. For the past few decades it’s been nothing but greenhorns using me as a test run, well-trained but no experience, no sense of style.”
“Well, I am nothing if not experienced,” Vell said. “Stylish, however...well, this tuxedo is a rental.”
“I can tell,” Doc Ragnarok said. He let out a single boisterous bark of delighted laughter. “Ah, look at us, already bantering. I missed this.’
Doc cleared his throat again and regained his ominous supervillain demeanor, as he snapped his fingers to make the killbots flank him.
“I must begin my preparations,” he said, in a voice shockingly distinct from his earlier conversational tone. “Challenge me if you dare.”
“Excuse me a moment,” said a voice somewhere behind the killbots. Doc snapped his fingers, ordering the crowd to part again, and Helena hopped forward on her crutches. Skye glanced at Vell curiously, and he shrugged in confusion. She wasn’t supposed to be here, for multiple reasons.
“Can I help you?”
“Yes, I was just reading your book earlier, ‘Practically Evil: A Guide to Classic Villainy’,” Helena said. “It’s a great read, but what really stood out to me is the section on classic henchman archetypes, specifically ‘The Igor’?”
She held up the book in question, which Vell noted had a picture of Doc Ragnarok holding a skull on the cover, and opened it to the section in question.
“Oh yes, I understand, completely,” Doc Ragnarok said. “As I said in the section opener, that information is presented for historical context, and I strongly condemn the typecasting of differently-abled persons like yourself into such roles. Regardless of my intent, I’m sorry if I caused any offense, and if you have feedback-”
“Oh, no, you misunderstand, I’m not offended, I’m actually intrigued,” Helena said. She turned the book around to quote a specific passage. “‘An outcast, often hunchbacked or otherwise misshapen in such a way to make them a pariah, physically handicapped but mentally gifted, driven to evil by the harsh treatment of judgmental peers’. I think it’s a very fitting role for me, and I’d love to give it a try.”
Vell had several very strong opinions about that, but kept all of them to himself.
“Well, it’s a bit short notice, but I’ll never discourage anyone from following the path of evil,” Doc Ragnarok said. “And this is a training exercise, after all, perfect time for you to train. Come along, minion! The more the merrier!”
Doc Ragnarok snapped his fingers again, and the killbots fell in line, this time with Helena in tow. A procession of smaller robots followed, carrying a worrying number of power cores, ray guns, and mutagens. Not for the first time, Vell began to wonder if this was a good idea. The recurring doubts got obliterated as Skye looked over her shoulder and winked. She was worth a lot more trouble than this.

WARNING: BIG TEXT INCOMING.
Yes I finished S5 REALLY FAST(in one and a half day basically) I know but I am addicted to the series and nothing else to do. So, let's start by saying that I didn't necessarily hated the season, but it was... something... The pacing and the way that the episodes worked changed and made it harder to watch.
Like, in the last 3 seasons the episodes were widely focused on all the cast or at least a big part of them, letting each one of them shiny in the same episode, but this new format was more like "[character]-focused episodes", you know? There was episodes that a lot of characters didn't even made ONE appearance and that was one of the things that I didn't like it....
Other thing that I really couldn't bring myself to care was the cases in the season.. one more boring than the other. Ngl, I skipped some of them in the middle of the season cause it felt like just a reminder that this was a 911 show and someone needed to be in danger...
Favorite episode: 05x17 - Hen & Chimney vs Jonah. My favorite duo😭
ABOUT THE CHARACTERS:
Honestly the whole Chimney and Maddie postpartum arc had a good ending imo! I see that some people must had think that it was dragged but for me made sense.
Ravi was a good surprise!!! I love him!!!! There was this scene where he was kinda traumadumping on Hen about his childhood in the hospital, I would love to watch a "Ravi begins" episode so much. But he disappears mid season LMAO
Taylor confirmed something that I already talked before, I like her character, I just don't like her as Buck's girlfriend... Honestly feels like a waste.
Buck was ass this season I am SORRY. Like besides his character being missing half of the season. His "cheating" arc was SO FORCED like c'mon there is no way that someone really thought that this was in character for him. The only part that I liked about him this season was him helping Chris and Eddie, besides that? Such a disappointment... (I could make a post just about Buck season 5 cause i am MAD.)
Eddie FINALLY dealing with trauma THANK GODDDDDD. My favorite character this Season by far! We had Eddie dealing with his trauma from war, with family trauma, wanting to become a better person. Loved it! (also TWITTER EDDIE WAS A VIBE LMAO)
Hated Lucy, Hated Claudette(Thanks Jonah), Happy that Michael is gone(liked his character just wasn't feeling it anymore), don't care about albert
Wanted to talk about something that I noticed about Buddie(not necessarily about romance) but I will talk in another post some day.
Ranking so far: S3 > S2 > S4 > S5 > S1
Probably gonna take a little longer(work🙄) to me to finishe season 6. I want to catch up fast cause I want to see all the theories and interviews for season 8 omg..... Y'all have been really lovely with me, loving the community!!!!

She [51] believes she has done a lot for me and that I'm ungrateful. When my boyfriend [28] and I [23] moved out of her place, she called me and my mom bitches and threatened to tell everyone in town what kind of person I am. She also told him that I was cheating on him during the pandemic when I couldn’t visit due to travel restrictions and lack of invitation documents. He responded that I wasn't like her. I am a person of honor—I never flirted with anyone, always told him where I was going and with whom, and we spoke every evening.
We didn't communicate much with her; mostly, I initiated conversations, and she responded dryly or commented on how she didn't like something. Eventually, she stopped responding altogether and complained to him that I didn't write to her.
She's so selfish because she knows about these problems and she says that she's too old to change and we need to accept her the way she is. There are a lot of things to say, but during our long-distance relationship, only I was traveling to meet him. He didn't try to visit me because of his mom. She would speak for him, saying it was unsafe because of something she read on Facebook. So, we agreed that he would pay for my travels. But when I arrived, I still helped her, often went to work with her, covered for her during her vacation, prepared lunches for my boyfriend, cooked for all of us, did my boyfriend's and my laundry, and cleaned the house fully every week.
When we moved out, she called him and with a cunning tone talked about another girl who had also moved to the area because of the war (I had come to him for vacation but couldn't leave because my territory was occupied). She said she was thinking of renting his room to her, implying he could visit whenever he wanted, with a suggestive tone. He replied, "Mom, actually, Chris can hear you too," and she said, "Oh, I'm just joking." This deeply offended me. I've told him about this many times, and he said she was a bad person, but he couldn't do anything.
On New Year's, we had an agreement with my boyfriend, and she twisted it to make it seem like we had to celebrate everything with her because she was alone and her boyfriend went to his daughter’s, and the cat would be afraid of fireworks (it never was). After my boyfriend proposed to look at the camera, we saw how she was talking on the phone with her aunt and sister, who live in the same city, saying that I'm a whore and spreading bad things about my family, whom she never wanted to meet. I feel anxious because of this. My boyfriend is caring and attentive, but I don’t feel safe. I have many stories of them deciding things without me (after he was sorry), and I don’t want to communicate with her and feel unsafe because he talks to her. I afraid of them talking and he already told her about what work i do, for whom even if i asked that i don't want her to know (i do marketing). He was saying that she's important for him.

Ciao! I do rp lotta stuff! From animated tv shows to movies I like, games and more! They are mostly cartoons because I’m a huge die-hard toon fan. I rp as canons and I only have one oc to play as I’m looking for someone who can rp as canons. I am mainly looking for a cartoon/fandom roleplay! I am 19 so I comfy to rp those around 18+. . I write in third person btw, but sometimes I do first person.
Genres I am comfy with: -slice of life -casual -comedic -fandom -romance?
RP Pairings: MXF/MXM
Literacy: Semi lit to lit, and possibly novella. One liners aren't my thing. :p
There so many things I rp, so many, that I had to make it into a google document so here are some of these ones if anyone knows but I can send my rp list once you dm me if you want or I dm you if you are really interested in my idea. I like to do OOC too! I’ve been rping since 2020, also.
Fandoms:
Brandy and Mr. Whiskers
Aggretsuko
Beastars
Super Planet Dolan
Bojack Horseman
Little Dogs on the Prairie (I love that series of episodes!)
Animal Crossing
Bremen Avenue Express Experience (Look it up! It’s a pilot for Cartoon Network)
Zorori (If you know the anime, with the fox.)
Robin Hood (another fox film yes)
Tinker Bell (the franchise)
Blinky Bill (I think only Australians know about it. I think.)
Star Wars: Lower Decks (There is a doctor or vet for humans. She’s also a cat.)
Yeah, golly, there are so so many fandoms, that you will only see when I send my link to my document in the direct messages. These are just ones I can show. Because there’s a character word limit here.
If you know any of these, I'll be extremely happy with you to be my new friend or rp partner! I know you don't know some of these fandoms, but I promise you, you are going to like my rp list, since I keep updating it now and then if I forget some cartoon I have to put. Anyway, if you read it, that's good! I hope you get to see me soon! If you have any favorite cartoons you like to rp on, ask me! We might have something in common!

Weakish Review- Ski to Sea Version
Sumer is icumen and so are the cotton wood trees. As Ski to Sea-ers descend upon our little town to remind us all of why we choose to live here (outdoor recreation in the rain), newcomers lament that this poorly planned event didn’t plan in advance that the disruptions in traffic could make it take longer to get his girlfriend’s car from across town. Meanwhile, the cotton woods are answering the call when the Bellingham City Council declared a tree emergency and are trying to impregnate everything and everyone. The only thing left to officially declare summer is an Alaskan rave so big that the skies light up and stimulate the boomhorses to fill the silence at midnight with their eerie flute like scary mating calls. Warning, the boomhorses are on ecstasy, grab your spongebob member’s only jacket and head to the bank to grab some cash, shit’s about to get real.
First, a rules meeting was had after a particular poster with multiple alts got called out for trolling. They said they were leaving the forum forever, then immediately signed in with new alts. People love to call me out for being an evil landlord, yet I let this troll live in my mind, rent free! I invite you to play a round of troll roulette. All you have to do is find one of their alts and point out, with evidence, that they are factually incorrect. If they tell you to touch grass and then block you, you win the game. Bonus points if you can get them to follow you around and downvote everything you post.
Next, a safety meeting was where kayakers were only informed about course information, rescue procedures, and how to help others. Nobody told the main character that he needed to feed himself. They didn’t tell him how to dress appropriately and even made him wipe is own ass in the outhouse. At the end of the day, they didn’t even reserve a parking space just for him and insisted that the rules apply to him just like everyone else. Ski to Sea is clearly under-planned and unsafe because we just got started and two main characters have already been slightly inconvenienced.
XC Ski- Following the lead of a woman who moved to our town who made it her mission to change our housing laws, a Texas man is trying to glide into our local housing politics too. People struggled to find footing as they were offended that a person who they agree with could be compared with someone they disagree with. Someone more clever than I, could certainly create a fun villain origin story with this. You gotta admit, black mold tenant’s revolt superhero has black spiderman/venom vibe. There has got to be something similar we could do with the monopoly man and the Air B&B guy. A battle between these two would be my favorite main character fight. Wouldn’t a Batman style comic be hilarious? Housing ordinance gets passed, BIFF. Lawsuit filed BAM. I miss good political satire cartoons.
DH SKI- Speaking of slippery slopes, the City council declared an emergency for trees. According to Merriam Webster, “a course of action that seems to lead inevitably from one action or result to another with unintended consequences.” People are struggling with seeing a problem with this one because we love trees, especially big ones. But, what happens when politicians that you don’t agree with start to declare non-emergencies as emergencies to push through their agendas? Where will all of our main characters live if nobody can build them housing if trees are there first? The cotton woods may have been the real main character all along.
Run- There has been talk for years about changing the course because running downhill can cause injury due to eccentric muscle contractions that induce high mechanical strain on the musculotendinous system. No review is complete without updating about our favorite eccentric character. Mark took a break from volunteering for the Spark Museum to bring joy to the community by dancing in the Ski to Sea Parade. Nearby band members were overwhelmed with happiness as his ecstatic exuberance filled the community with joy and love. Unfortunately, some main characters missed out on the joy because cones blocked their path for a brief moment, trapping them in their cars with great confusion. “Who would put cones in a road. Roads are for cars, not for bringing joy to the community and welcoming in a joyous summer. Parades should be held on sidewalks in the county, in the middle of the night so as not to impede traffic.” Proclaimed a main character who just moved here who was still miffed that he was accused of being the traffic that he was stuck in.
Road Bike- Perhaps the real purpose of Ski to Sea is to normalize traffic disruptions. The County’s war against cars is less subtle, they prefer to block large sections of primary transportation corridors. Those sneaky buggers in the city are slowly taking away lanes and giving them to bikes. First they came for route choice with a pamphlet with recommended routes with clever bridges and short cuts, and we didn’t speak out because it was just a recommendation. Then they came for color uniformity as they progressed to green paint and recommended routes, and we didn’t speak out because green is the color of trees and we like trees. Before most people noticed, they put the roads on diets and nobody stood up for the roads as they were shamed. Nobody stood on the overpasses and caused traffic accidents with their signs calling for road size positivity because roads aren’t real just like birds aren’t real. Now, they are replacing roads with bike lanes and lots of them! People don’t like the location of these bike lanes. People don’t want to slow down. What about the cars? And, we didn’t speak out because we aren’t cars and we love our bikes. Then, they came for our favorite route through town and there were no cars left to beep their horns for us and we were forced to zip through town on our e-bikes and waterproof outfits.
Canoe- Two people, who consider themselves locals since they have lived here for two weeks, decided to train for the canoe leg in the dessert on the sand dunes. The person in the front looked over his shoulder at their friend and said, “Wear’s your paddle?” the person in the back replied, “Sure does.” Ba Dum Tss. Speaking of paddling, It’s been a long time since we have collectively agreed that hitting children, friends, and neighbors is a preferred means of solving problems, but there is still a lot of striking going on. WWU workers were on strike, People were striking against the war in the middle east, the mods made a mega thread to strike down too much conversation about it.
Cyclocross- The CX bikers pedaled and slogged their way through the peanut butter mud as the main character waited with his kayak wishing someone would make him a peanut butter sandwich. A gaggle of Karens were triggered because peanut allergies are real and felt like the mud wasn’t being inclusive. Others felt left out that the mud was not described as being the consistency of gluten, which left them out of being triggered. When they all called the police because their feelings were hurt, nobody could agree on the number of police cars that they saw racing by.
Kayak- This takes us back to our poor, hungry, main character who was left to barely survive with an insufficient quantity and quality of food trucks. He stood there for hours wondering why nobody was taking care of him and why did the county executive and attorney pay off that sexual harassment claim without engaging with the council. As he neared the end of the paddle with the finish bell in sight he saw the Consulat de Monte Cristo shut down the beer garden while calling out Bonjour to the crowds. Our poor paddler grabbed his Spongebob jacket and thought to himself, “Why didn’t he say, bonne journée?”
It’s officially almost summer-ish. Go buy batteries to change your smoke alarms. Ask yourself what you can do to make the community a better place. Share your ideas. What can you do to make Belligham better? How can you support your community? My new favorite is the food pantry behind Coconut Kennys. You can leave nice things there and people who need them take them. I’ve left food, hand warmers, packages of new socks, nice jackets etc. My other favorite is gift cards to local easy access food restaurants like Dairy Queen and Subway. You can just hand these to people you see around town.

So basically I searching for websites where I can read Spy vs Spy comics. In this website had different more comedic popular comics like Calvin and Hobbes. In term of ui it from page had blue, white and round. And when I search for SvS content I didn't really find anything besides one thing. There was one political cartoon with the title "Do love not war" where a bunch of different political figures and war criminal kiss one each other. Like y'know, Hitler and Uncle Sam. And one of those people are White Spy and Black Spy. Can someone help me find it?

Edit: Welp, I was wrong, forget what I said. The IGN interview proved me wrong, so forget what I said.
Now, this is speculation on my part, and I know that most likely isn't the case, but it's sat on my head for a minute, and I want to try and make discourse.
Now, Messmer is stated to have fought the war right after Marika established the Golden Order (0:54 from the Shadow of the Erdtree story trailer from 21/5/24). He had an army, he had monsters on his side, he seems to have been well-established.
In the first bit of the Golden Order, Marika was married to Godfrey, the First Elden Lord, and that was after Marika established the Golden Order, and none of their children have red hair, so it most likely isn't Godfrey and Marika's kid.
It could be that Messmer is Marika and Radagon's kid, but that implies two things: A) that Radagon and Marika had a child out of wed-lock, without anyone knowing, and B) that Radagon had red hair by then. The problem is that Radagon was allegedly cursed by the Fire Giants to have red hair, if we're going by the flavor text of the Giant's Red Braids ("Radagon was said to have despised his own red locks. Perhaps that was a curse of their kind"), and that curse was presumably laid after Marika destroyed the majority of the Fire Giants, them cursing Radagon out of spite.
But if Messmer isn't Radagon's kid, and he isn't Godfrey's kid, then whose kid is it? I don't think Messmer is Marika's child; I think they're siblings.
I know it's unlikely, since then who would Messmer be referring to as "mother" in the trailers (but it could be that Marika's parents basically elected that Marika become the host for the Greater Will, leaving Messmer to be a general or war councilor of sorts, so he's just like "yo, why did you let Marika become a god, she doesn't really have good morals", or something like that), but it feels weird that by the time Marika becomes the host of the Greater Will, she just so happens to have a fully grown child that's already gotten armies and monsters under his control, and then there's the whole red hair thing. I mostly just wanted to start discourse, to see if others could provide more answers, since I doubt I'm right and I want more input.
Redaction: So, I understand that I’m wrong, that Messmer is Marika’s kid, coming from the mouth of the creator himself. But, I do have a question: who is Messmer’s father? This guy was around since the beginning of the Golden Order, and was old enough to be a warrior and leader for Marika. This could either imply A) Godfrey and Radagon aren’t the fathers, meaning it could be someone else, B) it’s Radagon, and Marika had a child out of wedlock/cheated on Godfrey with herself, or C) Messmer is Godfrey’s kid, and the red hair is just coincidental.

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I've gone down the rabbit hole on the New York Times online archive and it's amazing how little is there before the big "expose" in 2017. There are ZERO articles relating to some of the most widely reported UFO stories like Kenneth Arnold's Mount Ranier sighting. The first reference to the Roswell crash is a 1987 article is a culture piece about people's interest in UFOs.
Below is a long article from 1979 that could have been written today. The same misinformation from the government, the same promise to make a more scientific study (while promising that that study had not already been taking place....)

U.F.O. FILES: THE UNTOLD STORY

By Patrick Huyghe

• Oct. 14, 1979

Patrick Huyghe is a freelance writer in New York.
The Defense Department message bears the classification CONFIDENTIAL. “Subject: Suspicious Unknown Air Activity.” Dated Nov. 11, 1975, it reads:
“Since 28 Oct 75 numerous reports of suspicious objects have been received at the NORAD COC [North American Air Defense Combat Operations Center]. Reliable military personnel at Loring AFB [Air Force Base], Maine, Wurtsmith AFB, Michigan, Malmstrom AFB, [Montana], Minot AFB, [North Dakota], and Canadian Forces Station, Falconbridge, Ontario, Canada, have visually sighted suspicious objects.
“Objects at Loring and Wurtsmith were characterized to be helicopters. Missile site personnel, security alert teams and Air Defense personnel at Malmstrom Montana reported object which sounded like a jet aircraft. FAA advised ‘There were no jet aircraft in the vicinity.’ Malmstrom search and height finder radars carried the object between 9,000 ft and 15,600 ft at a speed of seven knots. ... F‐106s scrambled from Malmstrom could not make contact due to darkness and low altitude. Site personnel reported the objects as low as 200 ft and said that as the interceptors approached the lights went out. After the interceptors had passed the lights came on again. One hour after the F‐106s returned to base, missile site personnel reported the object increased to a high speed, raised in altitude and could not be discerned from the stars....
“I have expressed my concern to SAFOI [Air Force Information Office] that we come up soonest with a proposed answer to queries from the press to prevent overreaction by the public to reports by the media that may be blown out of proportion. To date efforts by Air Guard helicopters, SAC [Strategic Air Command] helicopters and NORAD F‐106s have failed to produce positive ID.”
Though officials have long denied that they take ‘flying saucers’ seriously, declassified documents now reveal extensive Government concern over the phenomenon.
Numerous daily updates kept the Joint Chiefs of Staff informed of these incursions by U.F.O.'s in the fall of 1975. Representatives of the Defense Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency as well as a handful of other Government desks received copies of the National Military Command Center's reports on the incidents. One report said that an unidentified object “demonstrated a clear intent in the weapons storage area.” Though Air Force records show that the C.I.A. was notified several times of these penetrations over nuclear missile and bomber bases, the agency has acknowledged only one such notification. Subsequent investigations by the Air Force into the sightings at Loring Air Force Base, Maine, where the remarkable series of events began, did not reveal a cause for the sightings.
Despite official pronouncements for decades that U.F.O.'s were nothing more than misidentified aerial objects and as such were no cause for alarm, recently declassified U.F.O. records from the C.I.A., the F.B.I. and other Federal agencies indicate that, ever since U.F.O.'s made their appearance in our skies in the 1940's, the phenomenon has aroused much serious behind‐the‐scenes concern in official circles. Details of the intelligence community's protracted obsession with the subject of U.F.O.'s have emerged over the past few years with the release of long‐withheld Government records obtained through the Freedom of Information Act. Though these papers fail to resolve the U.F.O. enigma, they do manage to dispel many popular notions about the U.F.O. controversy, as well as give substance to a number of others. Official records now available appear to put to rest doubts that the Government knew more about U.F.O.'s than it has claimed over the past 32 years. From the start, it has been convinced that most U.F.O. sightings could be explained in terms of misidentified balloons, cloud formations, airplanes, ball lightning, meteors and other natural phenomena.
But the papers also show that the Government remains perplexed about the nagging residue of unexplained U.F.O. sightings, which amount to approximately 10 percent of all U.F.O. sightings reported. Do they pose a threat to national security? Are they just a funny‐looking cover for an airborne Soviet presence? Even the possibility that these unknowns could be evidence of extraterrestrial visitations has been given serious attention in Government circles. While official interest in U.F.O.'s has long been thought to be strictly the concern of the Air Force, the bulk of whose records has been open to public view for nearly a decade, the recently released papers on U.F.O.'s indicate otherwise. The Departments of the Army, Navy, State and Defense, and the Defense Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the F.B.I., the C.I.A. and even the Atomic Energy Commission produced U.F.O. records over the years. Many of these agencies still do, and many of their documents remain classified. But it is the C.I.A. that appears to have played the key role in the controversy, and may even be responsible for the Government's conduct in U.F.O. investigations throughout the
U.F.O's have been the province of the nation's intelligence community ever since the beginning of the cold war, when the notion took hold that some flying saucers might actually represent a secret, technologically advanced, foreign weapons system. “Every time we were concerned,” recalls Herbert Scoville Jr., a former chief of the C.I.A.'s Office of Scientific Intelligence, “it was because we wanted to know: Did the Russians do it?”
As the cold war gave rise to the fears of the McCarthy era, official concern over U.F.O.'s even led to the surveillance of several private U.F.O. organizations (as many of their members have long insisted) and to the scrutiny of dozens of individuals suspected of subversive U.F.O. activities.
Perhaps most telling of all, the Government documents on U.F.O.'s reveal that despite official denials to the contrary, Federal agencies continue to monitor the phenomenon to this day.
The monumental task of unearthing the newest batch of records on U.F.O.'s from a bureaucracy that has for years denied their existence can be traced to the efforts of a handful of inquisitive individuals who, armed with the Freedom of Information Act, set off in the mid‐70's on a paper chase of U.S. Government documents on U.F.O.'s. They include Bruce S. Maccabee, a Silver Spring, Md., physicist working for the Navy, who has managed to obtain the release of more than 1,200 pages of documents on U.F.O.'s from the F.B.I.; W. Todd Zechel of Prairie du Sac, Wis.; Robert Todd of Ardmore, Pa.; Larry W. Bryant of Arlington, Va.; and Brad C. Sparks, a student la astrophysics at Berkeley whose five‐year pursuit of the C.I.A.'s U.F.O. file eventually provided the foundation for a 3round‐breaking Freedom of Information lawsuit filed by Ground Saucer Watch (G.S.W.), an Arizona‐based U.F.O.
At the request of G.S.W. director William H. Spaulding, Peter Gersten, an attorney in the New York firm of Rothblatt, Rothblatt & Seijas, filed a civil action against the C.I.A. in December 1977 demanding all U.F.O. records in the agency's possession. The suit seemed to have achieved its goal when late last year the agency released about 900 documents — nearly 900 pages of memos, reports and correspondence that attest to the agency's long involvement in U.F.O. matters. But the civil action has not seen its final day in court.
By Gersten's account, the agency has arbitrarily withheld documents, made deletions without merit, and failed to conduct a proper search for U.F.O. materials. The agency's current actions, he says, perpetuate its 30‐year policy of deliberate deception and dishonesty about U.F.O.'s. “What has been released to us seems to have been rather carefully selected,” says Gersten. “We suspect that the agency is withholding at least 200 more documents than the 57 they have admitted they are keeping from us to protect intelligence sources.” Victor Marchetti, a former executive assistant to the agency's deputy director, agrees with Gersten. The entire exercise, Marchetti wrote recently in a magazine article, “has the same aroma of the agency's previous messy efforts to hide its involvement in drugs and mind‐control operations, both prime examples of a successful intelligence cover‐up.”
The first sighting to be labeled a “flying saucer” by the press occurred on June 24, 1947, when an Idaho businessman flying his plane near Mount Rainier observed nine disc‐shaped objects making undulating motions “like a saucer skipping over water.” As early as World War II, Allied bomber pilots had told of “balls of light” that followed their flights over Japan and Germany. A U.S. Eighth Army investigation concluded that the of “mass hallucination.”
These and other incidents were reported in a 1973 book by David Michael Jacobs, “The UFO Controversy in America,” which until the recent release of Government documents was the most comprehensive reconstruction of the Government's U.F.O. involvement. When Scandinavians reported cigar‐shaped objects in 1946, U.S. Army intelligence suspected that the Russians had developed a secret weapon with the help of German scientists from Peenemiinde. The C.I.A., then known as the Central Intelligence Group, secretly began keeping tabs on the subject. When the unknown objects returned to the skies, this time over the United States in the summer of 1947, the Army Air Force set out to determine what the objects were. Within weeks, Brig. Gen. George F. Schulgen of Army Air Corps Intelligence requested the F.B.I.'s assistance “in locating and questioning the individuals who first sighted the so‐called flying discs....” Undoubtedly swayed by flaring cold‐war tensions, Schulgen feared that “the first reported sightings might have been by individuals of Communist sympathies with the view to causing hysteria and fear of a secret Russian weapon.” J. Edgar Hoover agreed to coopreau have “full access to discs recovered.” The Air Force's behind‐thescenes interest contrasted sharply with its public stance that the objects were products of misidentifications and imaginative populace. A security lid was imposed on the subject in July 1947, hiding potentially “embarrassing situation” the following month, when both the Air Force and the F.B.I. began suspecting they might actually be investigating our own secret weapons. High‐level reassurances were obtained that this was not so.
By the end of the summer, the F.B.I. had “failed to reveal any indication of subversive individuals being involved in any of the reported sightings.” A RESTRICTED Army letter that found its way to Hoover's desk said that the bureau's services actually had been enlisted to relieve the Air Forces “of the task of tracking down all the many instances which turned out to be ashcan covers, toilet seats and whatnot.” Incensed, Hoover moved quickly to discontinue the bureau's U.F.O. investigations.
In September of that year, the Commanding General of the Army Air Force received letter from the Army Chief of Staff Lieut. Gen. Nathan F. Twining, saying that “the phenomenon reported is of something real and not visionary or fictitious,” that the objects appeared to be disc‐shaped, “as large as man‐made aircraft,” and “controlled either manually, automatically or remotely.” At Twining's request, project “Sign” was established.
“Sign” failed to find any evidence that the objects were Soviet secret weapons and before long submitted an unofficial “Estimate of the Situation,” classified TOP SECRET, which indicated that U.F.O.'s were of interplanetary origin. The estimate eventually reached Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Hoyt S. Vandenberg, who rejected it for lack of proof. “Sign's” inconclusive final report remained classified for the next 12 years.
After “Sign,” the Air Force continued to collect U.F.O. data under the code name “Grudge.” This six‐month project found no evidence of foreign scientific development and therefore no direct threat to national security. It did, however, stress that the reported sightings could be dangerous. “There are indications that the planned release of related psychological propaganda would cause a form of mass hysteria,” the report stated. “Employment of these methods by or against an enemy would yield similar results ... governmental agencies interested in psychological warfare should be informed of the results of this study."
A press release following the termination of “Grudge” allowed the public to believe that the Air Force was no longer interested in U.F.O.'s. But the Air Force continued to collect reports through normal intelligence channels until a dramatic sighting of a U.F.O. at the Army Signal Corps radar center in Fort Monmouth, N.J., in 1951 led to the reactivation of “Grudge.” The Air Force project was renamed “Blue Book” in 1952, a year that saw a record number of U.F.O. reports.
The situation got out of hand during the summer of 1952. On the morning of July 28, the Washington Post revealed that U.F.O.'s had been tracked on radar at Washington National Airport, the second such incident in a week. Reporters stormed Air Force headquarters in the Pentagon, where switchboards were jammed for days with U.F.O. inquiries. Military installations across the country handled such a volume of reports that “regular intelligence work had been affected,” reported The New York Times.
These events prompted action at C.I.A. headquarters, apparently at a request “from the Hill.” From the start, the agency's involvement was to be kept secret. An August 1 C.I.A. memo recommended that “no indication of C.I.A. interest or concern reach the press or public, in view of their probable alarmist tendencies to accept such interest as ‘confirmatory’ of the soundness of ‘unpublished facts’ in the hands of the U.S. Government.”
The C.I.A.'s Office of Scientific Intelligence (O.S.I.) found that the Air Force's investigation of the U.F.O. phenomenon was not sufficiently rigorous to determine the exact nature of the objects in the sky. Neither did the Air Force deal adequately with the potential danger of U.F.O.‐induced mass hysteria, or the fact that our air vulnerability was being seriously affected by the U.F.O. problem. O.S.I. chief H. Marshall Chadwell thought that our nation's defenses were running the increasing risk of false alert and, worse yet, “of falsely identifying the real as phantom.” He suggested that a national policy be established “as to what should be told the public” and, furthermore, that immediate steps be taken to improve our current visual and electronic identification techniques so that “instant positive identification of enemy planes or missiles can be made.” Ever vigilant, the C.I.A. was keeping an eye on the possibility that U.F.O.'s could be of Soviet origin.
By the winter of 1952, Chadwell had drafted National Security Council proposal calling on program to solve the problem of instant positive identification of U.F.O.'s. In a memo that accompanied the proposal, Chadwell urged that the reports be given “immediate attention.” He thought that “sightings of unexplained objects at great altitudes and traveling at high speeds in the vicinity of major U.S. defense installations are of such nature that they are not attributable to natural phenomena or known types of aerial vehicles.” He said that O.S.I. was proceeding with the establishment of a consulting group “of sufficient competence and stature to ... convince the responsible authorities in the community that immediate research and development on this subject must be undertaken.”
But C.I.A. Director Gen. Walter B. Smith's interest apparently lay elsewhere. In a letter to the Director of the Psychological Strategy Board, he expressed a desire to discuss “the possible offensive and defensive utilization of these phenomena for psychological warfare purposes.” Only later did Director Smith authorize recruiting an advisory committee of outside consultants.
The scientific panel met for four days beginning Jan. 14, 1953. Chaired by Dr. H.P. Robertson, an expert in physics and weapons systems, the panel essentially bestowed the scientific seal of approval on previously established official policy regarding U.F.O.'s. The distinguished panelists felt that all the sightings could be identified once all the data were available for a proper evaluation — in other words, the phenomena, according to the panel's report, were not “beyond the domain of present knowledge of physical sciences.” Neither did the panelists find U.F.O.'s to be a direct threat to national security, though they believed that the volume of U.F.O. reports could clog military intelligence channels, precipitate panic, and lead defense personnel to ignore real indications of hostile action. The panel worried about Soviet manipulation of the phenomenon; that the reports could make the public vulnerable to “possible enemy psychological warfare.” The real danger, they concluded, was the reports themselves.
Fearing that the myth of U.F.O.'s might lead to inappropriate actions by the American public, the panelists decided that a “broad educational program integrating efforts of all concerned agencies” must be undertaken. They sought to strip U.F.O.'s of their “aura of mystery” through this program of “training and ‘debunking.’ “ The program would result in the “proper recognition of unusually illuminated objects” and in a “reduction in public interest in ‘flying saucers.’ “ The panelists recommended that their mass‐media program have as its advisers psychologists familiar with mass psychology and advertising experts, while Walt Disney Inc. animated cartoons and such personalities as Arthur Godfrey would help in the educational drive. To insure complete control over the situation, the panel members suggested that flying‐saucer groups be “watched because of their potentially great influence on mass thinking if widespread sightings should occur. The apparent irresponsibility and the possible use of such groups for subversive purposes should be kept in mind.”
The panel's recommendations called for nothing less than the domestic manipulation of public attitudes. Whether these proposals were acted upon, the C.I.A. will not say. But the report was circulated among the top brass at the Air Technical Intelligence Center, the C.I.A.'s Board of National Estimates (of which Hoover was a member), the C.I.A.'s bureau chiefs, the Secretary of Defense, the chairman of the National Security Resources Board, and the director of the Federal Civil Defense Administration, who eventually sent a representative to meet with C.I.A. officials in order to “implement the appropriate aspects of the Panel's Report as applicable to Civil Defense.”
The Government's efforts in the 50's and 60's to squelch public apprehension over U.F.O.'s went beyond debunking and even touched the fiber of constitutionally protected free speech. According to author David Michael Jacobs, in 1953 the Air Force pressured Look magazine into publishing disclaimers throughout an article by retired Maj. Donald E. Keyhoe entitled “Flying Saucers From Outer Space.” Then again, in 1965, the Army — in a prepublication review denied clearance for a U.F.O.related article by one of its employees, Larry W. Bryant, a technical editor, until he took the issue to court.
Meanwhile, the C.I.A. and the F.B.I. proceeded routinely in the surveillance of U.F.O. organizations and U.F.O. enthusiasts. People with U.F.O. interests were checked out by the F.B.I. at the request of the C.I.A., the Air Force, or private citizens inquiring about possible subversive activities. None caused as much consternation as the case of Major Keyhoe and the organization he directed, the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena (NICAP). The C.I.A. appears to have had a protracted interest in NICAP, which was founded in 1956 and utilized by Keyhoe as an organizational tool for challenging the alleged Air Force cover‐up on U.F.O.'s. Both the C.I.A. and the Air Force were upset by NICAP's wide‐ranging influence. Its prestigious board of directors included, among others, Vice Adm. Roscoe Hillenkoetter, the first C.I.A. Director (1947‐1950). “The Air Force representatives believe that much of the trouble ... with Major Keyhoe ... could be alleviated,” states a C.I.A. memo dated May 16, 1958, “if the Major did not have such important personages as Vice Admiral R. H. Hillenkoetter, U.S.N. (Ret.) ... on the board. ...” The Air Force suggested that if the Admiral were shown the SECRET panel report he might understand and take “appropriate actions.” Whether or not the Air Force got through to the admiral, Hillenkoetter
The 60's saw further C.I.A. interest in NICAP. After flurry of Washington‐area sightings in 1965, the agency contacted NICAP about seeing some of its case files on the matter. Richard H. Hall, then NICAP assistant director, chatted with a C.I.A. agent in the NICAP office about the sightings, NICAP's methodology, and Hall's background. The agent's memo on the visit suggests that the C.I.A. had some role in mind for Hall, predicated upon his being granted a security clearance. Nothing apparently came of the suggestion. A later set of C.I.A. papers reveals an inter. est in NICAP's organizational structure and notes that “this group included some ex‐C.I.A. and Defense Intelligence types who advise on investigative techniques and NICAP‐Government relations.” There are presently three former C.I.A. employees on the NICAP board of directors, including Charles Lombard, a congressional aide to Senator Barry Goldwater, who is himself a NICAP board member; and retired U.S. Air Force Col. Joseph Bryan III. Bryan feels, as he did back in 1959 when he joined the board, that U.F.O.'s are interplanetary. NICAP's current president is Alan Hall, a former C.I.A. covert employee for 30 years.
In 1966, mounting discontent from members of the press. Congress and the scientific community compelled the Air Force to commission an 18month scientific study of U.F.O.'s under the direction of Edward U. Condon, professor of physics at the University of Colorado. The politically expedient study, in which onethird of the 91 cases examined remained unidentified, reiterated official policy with one novel twist: U.F.O.'s “educationally harmed” schoolchildren who were allowed to use science study time to read books and magazine articles about U.F.O.'s. Condon wanted teachers to withhold credit from any student U.F.O. project. The Air Force took the cue and disbanded project “Blue Book” in 1969.
Less than a decade later, the White House, perhaps in an attempt to make good Jimmy Carter's campaign promise to tell all about U.F.O.'s, suggested via science advisor Frank Press that possibly NASA could undertake a review of any significant new findings since Condon's study. NASA examined the offer, but saw no way to attack the problem on a scientific basis without physical evidence. They envisioned a public‐relations nightmare if they were to accept such a project, and so rejected it. A frank, in‐house evaluation of NASA's options, however, noted that a handsoff attitude only begged the question. So in good spirit, the space agency offered to examine any piece of physical evidence brought to its attention. That position led one Federal aviation official to comment: “If you get a piece of the thing, fine. But don't bother me with anything else.”
These days, the Air Force admits to nothing more than a “transitory interest” in the phenomenon, although military directives still exist for reporting U.F.O.'s.
The C.I.A. is still wary of the possibility that U.F.O.'s. may be of Soviet origin. “The agency's interest,” says Katherine Pherson, a public‐affairs officer for the C.I.A., “lies in its responsibility to forewarn principally of the possibility that a foreign power might develop a new weapons system that might exhibit phenomena that some might categorize as a U.F.O. But there is no program to actively collect information on U.F.O.'s.” The agency's interest cannot be denied, however, as two 1976 memos reveal.
The first, dated April 26, states: “It does not seem that the Government has any formal program in progress for the identification/solution of the U.F.O. phenomena. Dr. [name deleted] feels that the efforts of independent researchers, [phrase deleted], are vital for further progress in this area. At the present time, there are offices and personnel within the agency who are monitoring the U.F.O. phenomena, but again, this is not currently on an official basis.”
Another memo, dated July 14, and routed to the deputy chief in the Office of Development and Engineering, reads: “As you may recall, 1 mentioned my own interest in the subject as well as the fact that DCD [Domestic Collection Division] has been receiving U.F.O. related material from many of our S & T (Science and Technology] sources who are presently conducting related research. These scientists include some who have been associated with the Agency for years and whose credentials remove them from the ‘nut’ variety.”
If nothing else, the success of the U.F.O. paper chase may have lent U.F.O.'s a measure of respectability that has eluded the subject for the past third of a century. Though it appears that no U.F.O. sighting has ever represented an airborne Soviet or foreign threat, the possibility that such an event could occur remains foremost in the coldwar‐conscious Government mind. Should that threat come to pass, military officials believe, our nation's sophisticated defense system would know about it before someone getting a glass of milk in the middle of the night sees the threat hovering outside the kitchen window. Or so we are made to understand the Air Force's seemingly nonchalant advice to the public: “If you see a U.F.O. and you feel the situation warrants it, call your local police.”

https://youtu.be/RkWQDDv_qdg?si=xQ_QJpT85knU6OiS
Good day everyone, I do hope you’re all well. Let me get the boring stuff out of the way first before I move on to the important bits of this post.
I’m Rob (hello!) from the UK. I’m 6 foot 4 (yes, back pain is real) with a beard and glasses. Think geek chic only a bit shitter. I’m a widower (it sucks) with 2 wonderful children who are my absolute world (war stuff and video games for my son, unicorns and hair stuff for my daughter). I’m here because I think (?) I’m ready for something new but meeting people in real life is hard (see the children bit). Are you that “lucky” person? Do you mind awkward flirting and inappropriate comments from time to time? If so, you’re mad but hey, send a message (please)!
On to the important stuff. Have you ever heard All Rise by Blue? If not, please see the posted link (apologies in advance). The song is about a cheating partner who has been caught by her hunky boyfriend and seemingly takes the case to a court of law. Now, I’m no legal expert but wouldn’t this be thrown out straight away because it actually isn’t against the law to cheat? Have they ever heard of contempt of court? Also, it appears they have waived their right to legal representation which, if you’ve ever seen any cop show, is a risky move. Our heroes also don’t actually provide any evidence of the “crime”, just hearsay and some FM friendly insults (I must remember “so step back ‘cause you don’t know this cat”, how cool). In all, this song is so ridiculous it actually makes me a bit angry. By all means, sing a song and put a different twist on it, but at least get your legal accuracies correct lads.
Anyway, that’s enough of my ranting. Have you got any thoughts on this? Are you a Blue fan and want to defend the boys (bring a lawyer for God’s sake)? Do you not care? Are you slightly disturbed by the amount of parentheses in this post? Feel free to message me. I hope to hear from you soon.

TLDR: How do I get past knowing that people can get great things like love and companionship by damaging other people? How am I supposed to stop feeling like I lost here and they won?
So a month ago I made a post here that got some attention but basically, my long time girlfriend (now ex) left me for my old child hood best friend and likely cheated on me sometime during our relationship with him. They now live together. If you're curious about it, its in my post history although it's an agonizing read for me so I really don't like to go back and read it over.
Anyways since then I've been putting myself out there more and I've gotten some professional help. I've picked up some new hobbies and habits like journaling. I feel as though I'm making great strides and getting better but it's come with one side effect. I am starting to see what they did as not wrong in some ways. I feel like what they did, if driven by love was now almost the correct thing.
I understand now that people have different moral compasses but that raises the question that if they truly are in love then I suppose I was just a casualty in their pursuit for happiness. But I just can't accept this reality for some reason. I strongly dislike the idea that in order for two people to fall in love, sometimes someone else has to be destroyed because of it. It's painful to imagine something as beautiful as love being the reward for doing something as heinous as they did. I want to move on and just forget them but I just feel like I can't live with this being the truth.
I'm not someone who wants to hold a grudge. I really honestly just want to put it behind me and look towards the horizon but the idea that they get love from being monsters and I get foreseeable months of therapy, pain and loneliness for being an idiot just doesn't sit well. I can't move past the thought that I was just a hurdle in their step to being a happy couple. I don't want to be bitter. I feel like it's slowing my progress. But I don't know how to feel about love being used as a reason for such pain. I know its childish but if feels like they won and im worried it's because they did the "right thing."
The phrase, "all is fair in love and war," makes me sick, like its just used to justify hurting others. I understand that it can be seen as a morally gray action by many people but it's just so black and white to me. They get love and happiness while I get pain and forced character growth. What do I do with this knowledge and how do I stop it from turning me into a bitter asshole? And why am I so uncomfortable knowing that if what they did was in the pursuit of love, somehow it's acceptable? I feel like I'm stuck between trying to justify what they did and trying to just move past it but I can't do either with this glaring issue gnawing at my soul.
I'm working on addressing the things that I feel I've done wrong to deserve what happened to me. I'm trying very hard to just be a better man. And I'm trying not to give up hope in this life. But this moral dilemma is truly eating me alive. I need help and as useful as the therapist is at helping me navigate my emotions and seeing what I've done wrong so I can be better, I just can't seem to make it past this reality of people doing terrible things but getting amazing things in return. This is what makes me want to just give up on it all.
Thanks for reading and I'd appreciate any advice. Sorry if it feels like this post turned into a rant, I still get emotional talking about this situation sometimes.

(Forgive the title, I'm trying to be pretentious)
So I've spent a good amount of time on the internet(read: I'm chronically online) and I've noticed a lot of discourse on Greco-Roman mythology and its depictions in common culture and media. And as someone with strong opinions on such topics, I want to weigh in.
Now, just to be transparent, I am an unabashed fan of Greek mythology. I was introduced to it by Percy Jackson and other such children's mythology books and now I spend time delving into the corpus of ancient sources. But I'm not an expert and my actual experience with said sources are quite limited and I obviously don't know anything or even a majority or even a significant plurality on the subject. But I certainly have opinions and you are going to damn well hear about them.
Also, while I do recognize Roman mythology as well, I do in the end prefer the greek versions so I will by-and-large be using greek names
Also this is probably going to be a senseless ramble with little point behind it unless I come up with something on the fly, but I mostly just wanted to present my own opinions and maybe dispel some ideas that I find distasteful, which I believe are relatively common.

1. The Decentralization of Greek Mythology

This is something that I think even nowadays most people are fairly familiar with, even if some don't quite internalize it as much as they should, but I'll keep it brief.
Basically, there's no such thing as a "canon" myth. The practice of ancient hellenic religions was not founded in a central church or school, and local communities and people were free to interpret and tell stories on their own volition. Now there were some common themes, most of which are not relevant to mythology, such as rituals, sacrifices, temples, etc. But the point is that writers were basically free to do whatever they wanted with myths.
And this is all to say that anyone who claims that any interpretation or version of a myth, usually their own version funny how that happens, is "the correct version" is wrong. Tons of different writers wrote tons of different versions of myths, most of them contemporaneous to each other and so there simply isn't "just one canon"
One should keep this in mind when discussing mythology. When talking to someone else about myths, if they something that doesn't sound familiar to you, don't immediately assume it to be wrong.
But also, I personally think there are incorrect versions of myths, but really only those written in the modern day(or any time after classical greece and rome).

2. The Demonization of Ovid

Oh boy here we go.
Ovid was a roman poet who lived around the turn of the 1st century AD. Firstly I bring that up because Ovid actually lived a lot earlier than I had assumed for a long time. I had always heard of him as a "late roman author" but he lived only at the very beginning of the empire. Nonnus, for example, lived in the 5th century. Plutarch was born 30 years after Ovid had died, etc etc.
Anyway, Ovid is a source on many greco-roman myths, and he wrote on quite a lot of them. He is famous for popularizing/inventing many versions of myths such as Medusa and Arachne and so on. For a long time, he was where many people got their sources on ancient myths
But as of late, especially in more mythology-related circles on the internet, I think Ovid has gotten a lot of bad rep. Everywhere, every time without fail where Ovid is mentioned, there is always someone who says "Uhm, actually Ovid was the first person who blah blah blah and he had an agenda and blah blah blah" and so on.
Basically, Ovid is untrustworthy and you shouldn't pay too close attention to him because he hated the gods and the roman state.
Now, I think it's valuable to recognize Ovid's own potential biases and him being basically the primary source for many of his own versions of the myth.
HOWEVER
I think many people have taken this too far in the opposite direction and now entirely disregard Ovid. Which I believe is also the wrong move.
Because the truth is: Ovid was widely popular and influential in his time and long after it. He wrote for an audience familiar with greco-roman religion(because they were the ones worshipping it) and found great success and good reception. I think if his myths could be popular amongst the people who had the most reason to be critical to "new" perspectives on myths(because again, they were the ones worshipping it), then they can be popular now too.
Dislike Ovid if you want to, I won't try to tell you what you can and can't like. Call it anti-authoritarianism. But Ovid was nonetheless a major figure in the codification of greco-roman mythology and ignoring him outright is foolish.

3. Hades, Persephone and I Keep Banging on About the Pendulum

This one is truly just my own personal nitpicking, but this is my post so deal.
Essentially, I think for quite a long time, people regarded Hades as kinda like Satan. From the perspective of a thoroughly christian west, they both rule over this big dark underworld where the dead people go, bing bang boom, Hades = Satan. And this of course also resulted in Hades being largely demonized for this connection, being seen as evil and unjust and so on.
Of course in reality, the greeks and romans saw Hades(Pluto) in no such light.
Really, Hades was a fairly just, reasonable god who was well respected(if perhaps out of some fear).
But, I think people have started, again, leaning too far in the opposite direction. Hades wasn't Satan, he was actually just an uwu goth softboy who never hurt anyone and etc etc etc.
I think it is inevitably necessary in Greek mythology to take the good with the bad. No, Hades wasn't particularly evil and even, you could argue, behaved better than many of the other gods. He only cheated on Persephone once, Theseus and Pirithous totally deserved it, and he even gave Orpheus a chance.
But you can't deny that Hades was a respected and feared god, just as all the others were, and he did do some bad things.
Likewise: Persephone.
Look, I know people like Persephone and again, that's fine. And people want to break out of that very archetypical damsel in distress version of the myth and that's fine too. But I'm just really tired of "modern reimaginings" of Hades and Persephone where Persephone is a cool girlboss and Demeter is mean and evil. Was Demeter a little cruel for starving everyone? Yes, I'll grant you that. But it just feels like that's all everyone talks about nowadays.
Of course it's not so terrible. In the version of the myth that I had read, it was pretty ambiguous why Persephone ate the pomegranate seeds and stayed in the underworld, which I think is cool.
I should probably wrap this up

4. This isn't another point because I forgot what I was going to say

So...
DONT PRETEND YOU KNOW THE ONLY CORRECT VERSION
LISTEN TO WHAT OVID HAD TO SAY
FOR FUCKS SAKE TALK ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN HADES AND PERSEPHONE SERIOUSLY IM TIRED OF IT THERE ARE OTHER MYTHS LIKE I GO ON AO3(YES IM PATHETIC) AND LOOK AT THE MYTHOLOGY-RELATED STORIES AND THEYRE LIKE ALL HADES AND PERSEPHONE
OH, ONE LAST THING: I ENJOYED SONG OF ACHILLES TOO, BUT IT ISN'T REALLY AN "ACCURATE" RETELLING OF THE TROJAN WAR. I WONT COMMENT ON THE "GAYNESS" OF ACHILLES OR WHATEVER BUT TRY ONE OF THE ACTUAL SOURCES ABOUT THE TROJAN WAR, THOUGH THERE AREN'T ACTUALLY THAT MANY BECAUSE THEYVE MOSTLY BEEN LOST

Hii, I'm an introvert but I'm less shy when texting. Many people say I'm quiet irl so I'm trying to improve that aspect. Also, I'm seeking for a friend that I resonate with to share memes, any good times/bad times, just there to support each other and I'll be your shoulder to cry on since times are tough
I like anime(OPM, demon slayer, mairimashita iruma kun, re:zero, mieruko chan) I'm a bit direct sometimes but I try to tone it down. I'm a little clingy and is scared of rejection so let me know early on if you don't wish to be that close. I'm into star wars, lotr, some cartoons like gravity falls, Phineas & Ferb so basically I'm a nerd 😂 Sometimes I'm a bit into philosophy because it makes me feel understood. I also play games like star rail and Pokémon go but I'm open to learning new games if you want me to play too! (I used to play mobile legends) My timezone is GMT+8

I saw a Instagram post says "those days men use to go to wars and their women use to wait for years, now women switch to other men every week"
Girl commented "do you guy still go to war"
After seeing this so many questions arise in my mind
1.if all the men went to war, who the hell left in the town so that they can cheat? 2. If there are no man in town, how come do you know they never wanted to cheat? 3. Do lesbian exist in those days? If they exist if two women had good time with each other, is that considered cheating? 4. What did they do to satisfy themself?

Most of the Jedi in the clones wars cartoon came across as bland and boring characters, even character that I like other star wars media seemed like they had lost a lot of their personality.
Is it just me or those anyone else feel like some character were changed, for example Vos, barriss offee, and Aayla.