Bankruptcy after foreclosure debt

Chapter 13 vs. Calling creditors 1 by 1 and trying to negotiate

2024.05.18 23:38 Silver_Shock Chapter 13 vs. Calling creditors 1 by 1 and trying to negotiate

Good afternoon everyone,
So…I had my consultation with my attorney yesterday and was told that I wouldn’t qualify for a Chapter 7 based on a piece of property I inherited when my mom passed away (1/4 of the house I’m renting)
I was kinda expecting that and after going over everything, he was able to guesstimate my monthly payments at $708 for 36 or $400-something if I did the 5 year payment plan
I like the idea of it being over as soon as possible me so I would probably opt for the shorter timeframe
This is for approximately $64,000 in unsecured debt (credit cards and a small personal loan)
But last night I got to thinking, if I’m going to have a monthly payment anyway, would it be worth the effort to try and call each of the credit card companies 1 at a time and saying “ I can not make my payments anymore and have retained a lawyer and begun bankruptcy proceedings. I would prefer not to go this route and am able to pay $200 for the next 24 months. Would you be willing to close and settle my account instead of me going forward with the bankruptcy proceedings?’
I could do that with one of the credit cards that has $15,000 on it and just make that phone call to multiple credit card companies.
Is there any logic to that thinking?
I feel like they would rather get something than be guaranteed nothing and from what I’m reading online, a settlement doesn’t hit your credit for as long as a BK would.
Part of me thinks it’s a great idea, or worth a try at least, and part of me feels like they would eat me alive within 15 seconds of that phone call.
Has anyone had any success trying to settle their own debts?
submitted by Silver_Shock to Bankruptcy [link] [comments]


2024.05.18 21:17 Direct-Ad2644 Ending my life tonight

Please don't judge me or be harsh or trolling. I can't handle it at this point in time right now.... I am just moments close to ending everything because I just can't handle it anymore. please if you judge me just keep it to yourself please..
I am on ssi and ssd getting 158 on the first and 805 on the 3rd. the ssd is after both my parents passed they put me on my dads disability drawing off what he earned working but I was originally on ssi to begin with.
I get about 963 a month total to live on. Right now I am in major debt with credit cards since covid broke out. I had to use them to live on.
I moved in with my aunt who is living in apartments based on income but they are not section 8 but they accept section 8. When i moved in, i was told by the manager i didn't need to put my income since i was a cotenant. that was 10 yrs ago. come to find out. i had to put my income now i am being sued by the housing authority for 10k, i owe two more years. my aunt and i pay 220 a month to them. they don't care what happened they just want their money.
i owe one credit card company 4.5k, another 1.8k another 600 and another 700. when i applied for them, it was 3 plus years ago. i put that i made around 700k a year when i applied to them but i was on ssdi at the time making around 11k a year. i went on the websites 3 months ago fixed the right info.
I live in a small town where nothing is available for the next 20 plus miles and have no transport. my aunt won't take me anywhere. her son who si in his late 30's lives with us and works. my aunt is on disability. I get food stamps right now worth a 130 a month which goes to my aunt even though its for me. i pay her 450 a month rent incl internet lights and 130 in food. if i don't give her the food stamps then i have to pay her another 130 a month i can't afford since all my stuff is going to her and credit cards. i legit have nothing left each month right now with having to buy myself instant mashed potatoes, oatmeal top ramen soup, noodles and spaghetti sauce. i live on that through the month.
when she buys food with the food stamps it feeds her son, me and her. but it is only enough to last a week, then for the next 3 weeks i am starving barely eating because i can't afford much when i do buy stuff that i can put in my bedroom to eat on.
past week now, there has been no food, her son has been taking his mom and him out to eat all week not bringing anything home for me. im so hungry. the nearest food bank is 4 miles away one way, but i have no way to get there my aunt won't take me they don't deliver and when i tried getting medicaid transport to take me they said they don't schedule rides except to and from the dr's.
I have no other family, I have no friends. I have no vehicle. been trying to get a minivan so I could live in it. I am sometimes bed ridden due to my bad joints/back/knees/feet/right leg nerve damage. I also struggle from morbid obesity I am around 500 lbs and funny thing is, with how little i eat. i should be losing weight but its the complete opposite.
I will be 47 yrs old when I am out of debt with the credit card companies, I tried filing bankruptcy no one will touch me being under 10k in debt with the credit card companies. i contacted legal aid, the attorney who called me back said he can't help me because its under 10k. but told me how to file but chances of me filing and getting it are slim to none esp without legal help he said.
im thinking of ending my life next month when my aunt and her son leave for a week. I just can't keep living like this. if i had a minivan I could stay in it, do door dash for extra money, I could get around trying to find an aparment based on income. I bene accepted a few times to low income places but had no way to get there and now with all the debt I wouldn't be able to afford having my own place with the credit card debt.
if i stop paying the cards, and the debt collectors come after me, they could take me to court and if they do, they could show the judge i said i made 700k a year and i didn't make that much and was on disability at the time and making only 11k a year. i found out while looking into bankruptcy that it is fraud and i could face prison time.
i just don't know what to do anymore. i really don't know what to do anymore other than ending things next month to get out of this situation i put myself in with my aunt, debt, etc. I just can't do it anymore esp without a vehicle. esp since I am bed ridden half of the day here and there due to my bad joints and weight that i have carried around for 30 yrs destroying my joints and causing nerve damage to my right leg. I can't just get up and go on the streets and live on the streets not with how badly im in pain every day esp just walking to the corner store. just a simple walk to the corner store and back and i am bed rested for an entire day barely able to move.
i can't do it anymore...
submitted by Direct-Ad2644 to depression [link] [comments]


2024.05.18 21:17 Direct-Ad2644 Ending my life tonight

Please don't judge me or be harsh or trolling. I can't handle it at this point in time right now.... I am just moments close to ending everything because I just can't handle it anymore. please if you judge me just keep it to yourself please..
I am on ssi and ssd getting 158 on the first and 805 on the 3rd. the ssd is after both my parents passed they put me on my dads disability drawing off what he earned working but I was originally on ssi to begin with.
I get about 963 a month total to live on. Right now I am in major debt with credit cards since covid broke out. I had to use them to live on.
I moved in with my aunt who is living in apartments based on income but they are not section 8 but they accept section 8. When i moved in, i was told by the manager i didn't need to put my income since i was a cotenant. that was 10 yrs ago. come to find out. i had to put my income now i am being sued by the housing authority for 10k, i owe two more years. my aunt and i pay 220 a month to them. they don't care what happened they just want their money.
i owe one credit card company 4.5k, another 1.8k another 600 and another 700. when i applied for them, it was 3 plus years ago. i put that i made around 700k a year when i applied to them but i was on ssdi at the time making around 11k a year. i went on the websites 3 months ago fixed the right info.
I live in a small town where nothing is available for the next 20 plus miles and have no transport. my aunt won't take me anywhere. her son who si in his late 30's lives with us and works. my aunt is on disability. I get food stamps right now worth a 130 a month which goes to my aunt even though its for me. i pay her 450 a month rent incl internet lights and 130 in food. if i don't give her the food stamps then i have to pay her another 130 a month i can't afford since all my stuff is going to her and credit cards. i legit have nothing left each month right now with having to buy myself instant mashed potatoes, oatmeal top ramen soup, noodles and spaghetti sauce. i live on that through the month.
when she buys food with the food stamps it feeds her son, me and her. but it is only enough to last a week, then for the next 3 weeks i am starving barely eating because i can't afford much when i do buy stuff that i can put in my bedroom to eat on.
past week now, there has been no food, her son has been taking his mom and him out to eat all week not bringing anything home for me. im so hungry. the nearest food bank is 4 miles away one way, but i have no way to get there my aunt won't take me they don't deliver and when i tried getting medicaid transport to take me they said they don't schedule rides except to and from the dr's.
I have no other family, I have no friends. I have no vehicle. been trying to get a minivan so I could live in it. I am sometimes bed ridden due to my bad joints/back/knees/feet/right leg nerve damage. I also struggle from morbid obesity I am around 500 lbs and funny thing is, with how little i eat. i should be losing weight but its the complete opposite.
I will be 47 yrs old when I am out of debt with the credit card companies, I tried filing bankruptcy no one will touch me being under 10k in debt with the credit card companies. i contacted legal aid, the attorney who called me back said he can't help me because its under 10k. but told me how to file but chances of me filing and getting it are slim to none esp without legal help he said.
im thinking of ending my life next month when my aunt and her son leave for a week. I just can't keep living like this. if i had a minivan I could stay in it, do door dash for extra money, I could get around trying to find an aparment based on income. I bene accepted a few times to low income places but had no way to get there and now with all the debt I wouldn't be able to afford having my own place with the credit card debt.
if i stop paying the cards, and the debt collectors come after me, they could take me to court and if they do, they could show the judge i said i made 700k a year and i didn't make that much and was on disability at the time and making only 11k a year. i found out while looking into bankruptcy that it is fraud and i could face prison time.
i just don't know what to do anymore. i really don't know what to do anymore other than ending things next month to get out of this situation i put myself in with my aunt, debt, etc. I just can't do it anymore esp without a vehicle. esp since I am bed ridden half of the day here and there due to my bad joints and weight that i have carried around for 30 yrs destroying my joints and causing nerve damage to my right leg. I can't just get up and go on the streets and live on the streets not with how badly im in pain every day esp just walking to the corner store. just a simple walk to the corner store and back and i am bed rested for an entire day barely able to move.
i can't do it anymore...
submitted by Direct-Ad2644 to SuicideWatch [link] [comments]


2024.05.18 17:13 Rainyfriedtofu Nasdaq's rules and Clov Delisting: beating a dead horse deader

Hello Fellow Apes,
I just want to take a quick moment to revisit the Nasdaq's rules and how it would pertain to Clover Healthcare's delisting procedure. I want to do this for two reasons: 1) I want to get ahead of the short sellers' FUD thesis, and 2) I want to revisit the post I made a month ago called "Nasdaq's rules and procedures pertaining to Clover Health." https://www.reddit.com/Healthcare_Anon/comments/1bx2eeg/nasdaqs_rules_and_procedures_pertaining_to_clove
Currently, retail short sellers do not have a basis to spread FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) about Clover Health (CLOV). Additionally, my recent post has highlighted the coordinated efforts to short the stock and brought attention to the fact that a group of us has been reporting activities on the Clover Health subreddit to the SEC and Clover's Investor Relations.
https://www.reddit.com/Healthcare_Anon/comments/1ctvrx7/clov_as_a_meme_clovs_reddit_and_andrews_recent/
In short, our filings with these entities revealed a high correlation (R = 0.97 with a P-value of 0.001) between the "dog whistle" share price and the actual share price of the stock after running statistical tests. Our dataset covered several months. An R value of 0.97 in a correlation test indicates a very strong positive linear relationship between the two variables.
Additionally, contrasting this with the recent meme stock frenzy fueled by figures like Roaring Kitty and Ryan Cohen, hundreds of thousands of people have lost substantial amounts of money due to the activities of retail short sellers. Unlike institutional traders, there are currently no sufficient laws or enforcement mechanisms to regulate these retail short sellers. This lack of oversight prompted us to start documenting and collecting data on Clover Health (CLOV). Our goal is to contribute to the end to such predatory market manipulation behaviors. Companies such as AMC and GME are doomed to fail. However, the case with Clov is different because the company is profitable, sustainable, and gearing up to expand and address the changes to healthcare.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/17/gamestop-shares-fall-after-it-files-to-sell-securities-says-first-quarter-sales-declined.html
I know what you guys are thinking, "Why are you bringing this up again?" Do you guys remember one of the procedures for Nasdaq's delisting that I wrote a month ago?
"When a company listed on the Nasdaq stock market receives a notice of noncompliance, it means that the company has failed to meet one or more of the Nasdaq's listing requirements. The timeline for potential delisting following a noncompliance notice varies depending on the specific rule that has been violated. Generally, companies are given a compliance period during which they can regain compliance with the Nasdaq's listing standards. This period can range from 30 days to 180 days, or sometimes even longer, especially if the company decides to appeal against the delisting decision or if the noncompliance is related to financial or reporting issues which have specific cure periods.
After the compliance period ends, if the company has not regained compliance or has not made satisfactory progress towards compliance, as determined by the Nasdaq, the exchange may issue a delisting notice. The company can appeal this decision, which may further extend the process. Currently, Clov has several good reasons and evidence to further extend the process. However, I cannot speak on this because of two reasons:
  1. It's uncertain whether Clover Health's Investor Relations (IR) team will instruct their legal team to formally present their reasons for noncompliance to Nasdaq. They have legitimate reasons, including being targeted by retail short sellers, but I'll not delve into those details in this post.
  2. Considering Clover Health's financial situation, as evidenced by their 10-K reports and their operational runway, it's possible they may not need to utilize the full 180-day grace period before appealing Nasdaq's notice. Moocao plans to conduct a detailed analysis (DD) of their financial statements, which suggest the company is in a strong position. The launch of their Software as a Service (SaaS) platform and the anticipation of approximately $100 million in revenue could potentially disrupt the strategies of retail short sellers, possibly leading to their financial downturn. However, the outcome of the first quarter's earnings report (Q1 ER) remains to be seen, presenting Clover Health with two potential paths forward. I'm only speculating SaaS contracts because why would you hire SaaS staff, request to generate more shares to pay those staff, and not have work or activities for them to do right now? This is a lot of money to spend on something that have no contracts. Therefore, I speculate they will announce their SaaS the same way that they announced their home care last year."
Looking at the current situation, Clover Health has ample time to comply with Nasdaq's regulations for several key reasons--almost unlimited:
  1. Strong Financial Health: The company is performing exceptionally well and is far from facing bankruptcy. Despite this, short sellers have excessively shorted the stock, pushing it to levels suggesting financial distress, and they have coordinated efforts to sway public sentiment negatively. https://www.reddit.com/Healthcare_Anon/comments/1cp786f/clover_q1_2024_earnings_analysis_earnings_call10q/
  2. Proactive Measures: Clover Health is actively working to enhance shareholder value, including implementing a share buyback program.
  3. Prepared for Appeals: We have already prepared the necessary reports for Clover Health to file an appeal with Nasdaq, should it fail to meet compliance standards within 180 days. However, given the company's current trajectory, it's unlikely that an appeal will be necessary as we anticipate Clover Health will regain compliance soon.
It's important to note that the likelihood of Clover Health facing delisting or needing to perform a reverse stock split is minimal. In a somewhat ironic twist, we owe a debt of gratitude to the retail short sellers. Their consistent manipulation of the stock has inadvertently provided crucial evidence. If they hadn't driven the stock price below bankruptcy levels and engaged in aggressive trading strategies against market-making algorithms, we might not have identified key areas to focus on. As the saying goes, sometimes not getting what you want can indeed be a blessing.
I'll provide a more detailed write-up later, but for now, I wanted to reassure you that the potential for Clover Health's delisting or reverse stock split is very low. The delisting and reverse stock split are the only kind of theses I anticipate the brigades can make. Otherwise, the only thing that they have are memes.
submitted by Rainyfriedtofu to Healthcare_Anon [link] [comments]


2024.05.18 16:55 MisfortunateFortune Should I file chapter 7?

I (M, 29) am looking into filing chapter 7 bankruptcy. I feel I'm in an inescapable pit due to a combination of my own decisions and circumstances. I suppose that's true of everyone.
I was laid off from a job a few years ago that paid too poorly for me to have savings. I had maxed out credit cards while trying to stay afloat. I started a new job, rebuilt a bit, and then moved to a city where I've met the love of my life.
Things were rough but manageable, and I was happy. I then began struggling with a sleep disorder called idiopathic hypersomnia. I have narcolepsy or another neurological dysfunction. I was unable to complete full shifts and began losing income and performing poorly. I was unmedicated for several months, and this severely impacted my income and personal life.
I applied for short-term disability through my employer's insurance program. I was told by my employer that partial disability wasn't covered, but then told by the insurance company that it was. They gave me a lump sum payment for the time I was unable to work, and I used this to pay bills and rent right away. I asked how taxes were handled and was told there would be a deduction and that I could select a percentage to hold as well. I held the minimum recommended amount since there was the additional deduction.
I was then laid off along with my entire department. I applied for unemployment but didn't receive it for several months while the state investigated my income due to the disability payment received. They also wanted to be certain I could still work.
During this time, I received my W2s for my former work and for the disability payment. The disability w2 showed around $3000 more income than I had received, which was listed as 'deduction' on the paperwork from the insurance company. I assumed and was told this was for taxes, but I now was being taxed for the $3000 deduction, and would not be receiving it.
I called and was told they'd investigate, and then received a call from my former employer asking why I received a partial disability payment and that it wasn't standard. I double-checked the policy and found it was included, but I haven't heard back regarding the deduction other than a statement that it was 'part of the policy'. I've asked for clarification on what the deduction was for and how I can be taxed for it if I haven't received it, and was told it's standard policy and that I had agreed to that by using their insurance.
So I now owe income tax for an additional $3000 of income, as well as income tax for something I thought was already covered. I owe several thousand in taxes, in addition to having several thousand in credit debts and a restructurement loan since I had to rely on these cards while waiting for unemployment and food stamps.
It took around 150 applications and 4 months to land a new job. My new job pays around the same as my old, but I am not making enough to be able to pay the taxes in time, while still paying all of my debts, while still paying rent.
I want to marry my girlfriend. I love her dearly. I'm almost 30. Bankruptcy wouldn'tfall off until 40. Could I ever get a home in that time? Would that impact her if we get married?
I don't have money to fight this weird legal battle with these insurance companies, and the companies that hold my debts (not yet in collections) are completely inflexible about payments. I don't qualify for any kind of financial assistance due to my income.
I feel like I'm drowning, and bankruptcy seems like a horribly double-edged sword.
For the first time in my life I have something so precious, I want a family and have never felt this way before, but I don't want to ruin her life with all of these problems. I don't know what to do.
I have around $20,000 in debt for loans and cards, and owe another $4000 for taxes.
I make $78,000/year before taxes and insurance, realistically around $4000/month. My rent is $2200 after utilities and parking. My car is $350/month with insurance. Internet is $80/month. Phone bill is $100/month. My dog is around $100/month. Groceries and household items are around $400/month. I'm regularly paying insurance copays for various tests and treatments at $40/visit. My medication at any point in time could start costing $900 or more per bottle if the coupons I'm using suddenly disappear or stop working. I need maintenance done on my car. I'm always late on rent because of this cycle and timing, so I'm always paying an extra $200 for rent.
It feels like there's no end. How long do I have before I get thrown in jail because I was told I had taxes set aside and didn't? I applied for a 180-day payment deferral on the IRS site, but time is ticking and I can't save money, and that doesn't deal with the state taxes owed. I'm constantly bombarded with calls from the debt collectors for the credit card payments I'm juggling every month, and being eaten alive by late fees and interest.
I've sold a bunch of my belongings to try and make some cash back. I took a risk and bought options contracts and profited, but that's too risky and terrifying to be a consistent strategy.
I don't know what the right decisions are, and I do not have friends or family to turn to. The only person I have is my girlfriend, and she can tell I'm always stressed and struggling because of these things. I would never ask her for money, and know that she wouldn't be able to provide significant help with her income. And again, I don't want her finances to be impacted long term because of my stupidity and misfortune.
I know I should get legal assistance with some of these issues, but that's significantly more money than I can find right now. Is there a way out of this, or should I be filing bankruptcy?
tl;dr
I was given a lump-sum short term disability payment, and was told some was deducted for taxes. The amount deducted was instead for 'policy', and I now owe that amount in taxes plus tax for that amount as income. I do not have money for legal services.
I have significant debt, and it's impossible to manage while juggling rent and bills. I am running out of time to pay the taxes I owe.
I want to marry my girlfriend. I want to live in a small home with a yard with her. Can I buy a house with a bankruptcy? Will my bankruptcy damage her finances and credit if we marry? Should I even be filing bankruptcy? What are my options?
submitted by MisfortunateFortune to personalfinance [link] [comments]


2024.05.18 11:01 waitingformsfs2020 credit card maxed out on gambling and possible fraud

SPOILER ALERT! I am a moron !!!
A month ago I decided to move back to my home country from canada permanently and I came up with a brilliant!!!(sarcasm) plan which was using my credit card to gamble and after potentially making it double or triple pay the initial amount and take home a nice amount of money and make fresh start however things went south so fast and after 1 weeks hours of gambling I found my self lost all money in my chequing account ( 7-8 k) plus a 37 k on credit cards debt. I was gambling 14-15 hours a day 2-3 times I hit 35k but i got greddy and instead of cashing out i kept going eventually lost it all. I then start looking more money to get back the money i lost i had one last credit card which i never used however that credit card wont let me deposit any money into that online casino so I came up with another brilliant idea of buying a expensive product and sellling it and using that money to gamble and hopefully get what i lost . I know now it sounds soooo stupid but i was out of my mind constantly sweating and in self destruction mode. I ended up buying an expensive apple product which I couldnt sell it. I was completely 0 with 35k plus 5 k on last credit card debt totalling 40 k. Now I m outside of canada and I m trying to get a consumer proposal or bankruptcy but I m scared as my actions might be considered fraudulent. I can prove that I did actually lost all that money on gambling and I m planning to pay that 5 k credit card that i purchase expensive product as I dont want to be seen a fugitive trying to fraud the credit card company but I am completely broke with no job. If I can get a consumer proposal accepted I can have one of my parent to help me make that payment . We can comfortably pay 200-300 a month without any worry. The thing is I m really worried about collection agency following me in my new country potentially causing legal or financial trouble
submitted by waitingformsfs2020 to PersonalFinanceCanada [link] [comments]


2024.05.18 07:33 DifferencePrimary Debt after cancer. What would you do?

Also posted in bankruptcy for a variety of takes.
Never thought I’d be here. Throwaway, obviously.
I had a consulting business with over 1.25M revenue-cash flow positive and profitable. Ten years in business.
During covid business grew very fast.
In 2022 we lost a giant client and then I got cancer. Slowly managed the team out as clients went away-only to discover team had stolen computer code-as in deleted it.
Mired in depression after 3 years of covid and now sick, I basically couldn’t work. I got disability but it ran out. I had taken an eidl for working capital and with few other assets was able to live off dwindling assets then the loc and credit cards.
Six months ago I started to feel better and 2 months ago I finally made it back to ft work.
The business is growing again. Within 6 months I am 100% confident I can be back on track.
The problem is that I now have a monthly debt payment I can’t make.
Or could I?
In a turn of events a small company I got stock in years ago is willing to buy me out in compassion for my situation. It’s enough to wipe out the debt but if i do that i will be on a knife edge financially. It’s terrifying.
My spouse thinks I should declare bankruptcy. My advisors think it’s not time yet-the gap between my current income and expenses is small. I know if I execute this stock sale it will be gobbled up in bk. I do not have to exercise it.
The company has 199k of not guaranteed eidl and 86k of personal guarantee loc and cc
My credit score is 740.
I am at the moment current on all obligations including taxes.
I am in my mid 50s.
What would you do?
submitted by DifferencePrimary to smallbusiness [link] [comments]


2024.05.18 07:27 DifferencePrimary Small biz owner after cancer

Never thought I’d be here. Throwaway, obviously.
I had a consulting business with over 1.25M revenue-cash flow positive and profitable.
During covid business grew very fast.
In 2022 we lost a giant client and then I got cancer. Slowly managed the team out as clients went away-only to discover team had stolen computer code-as in deleted it.
Mired in depression after 3 years of covid and now sick, I basically couldn’t work. I got disability but it ran out. I had taken an eidl for working capital and with few other assets was able to live off dwindling assets then the loc and credit cards.
Six months ago I started to feel better and 2 months ago I finally made it back to ft work.
The business is growing again. Within 6 months I am 100% confident I can be back on track.
The problem is that I now have a monthly debt payment I can’t make.
Or could I?
In a turn of events a small company I got stock in years ago is willing to buy me out in compassion for my situation. It’s enough to wipe out the debt but if i do that i will be on a knife edge financially. It’s terrifying.
My spouse thinks I should declare bankruptcy. My advisors think it’s not time yet-the gap between my current income and expenses is small. I know if I execute this stock sale it will be gobbled up in bk. I do not have to exercise it.
The company has 199k of not guaranteed eidl and 86k of personal guarantee loc and cc
My credit score is 740.
I am at the moment current on all obligations including taxes.
What would you do?
submitted by DifferencePrimary to Bankruptcy [link] [comments]


2024.05.18 05:34 EatingBuddha3 Reducing Equity in Vehicle CH7

I am considering filing Chapter 7 in PA USA on about $50k in unsecured debt (half credit cards, half personal loan). I will soon be receiving a divorce settlement that will be about half of that amount in cash and planned to use it to do a lease buyout on my vehicle which has a residual of about $20k. Since the vehicle has low miles and is in good condition, I assume it will exceed the near $20k wildcard plus vehicle exemption by a few to five thousand dollars. If I did the lease buyout as a finance deal with let's say $15k down (thus owing $8k-$10k after tax/title) and spent the remaining cash paying some moving expenses, prepaying rent, paying my divorce and bankruptcy attorneys, etc. does that seem like it would work? I'd really like to keep this car and think I could qualify for the note with that much down, would hate to buy it out just to have it sold... What do you think? Anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? Thank you....
submitted by EatingBuddha3 to Bankruptcy [link] [comments]


2024.05.18 03:45 FrameNo712 Had 341 today...

Sorry if I ramble on this post. Just wanted to talk about my 341 and entire bankruptcy experience.
341 was so easy. I had made myself sick with anxiety even though my lawyer kept saying it wasn't going to be a big deal. He was very unconcerned about the meeting.
For context, I was filing a Ch 7 with no assets, debt was around $37k. I'm single, no kids, and I'm in the Western District of Texas. I hired a lawyer too.
The things I was worried about:
  1. Haven't filed 2023 taxes (filed an extension) because I already owe $1400 from previous years and I will owe a little this year.
  2. I have a tiny side biz with an LLC. Hobby business with next to nothing in revenue.
I thought the trustee would make me file 2023 taxes before moving for a discharge and I thought I would have to answer a bunch of questions about my business - I've never done any bookkeeping or filed taxes for it. Chase also closed my biz cc as soon as filed and I wasn't expecting that.
As for both those concerns, he asked if I had file 2023 and I said I filed for an extension and he said that's ok. He didn't ask me one thing about my LLC.
I was last to go today in my group. He asked the same questions for everyone and didn't ask anything extra except for two people - one woman put she was owed $20,000 by an ex and he asked about that but once she explained she had no legal recourse to collect and the ex had disappeared, he just said ok. The other guy had a Robinhood account and he listed the info for it as unknown so the trustee asked what was the most you ever had in it and when. He answered $7k that he withdrew in 2021.
I have never looked at Pacer - just seemed too stressful but do understand it's helpful to those who are filing pro se.
I also found this group helpful and stress inducing. It's so easy to hear other people's situations and think it will happen to you.
I worried about my monthly budget after reading that people had to move to a Ch 13 because of this. I'm well below means test but I'm staying with family and was worried that I had extra money in the eyes of the bankruptcy court. I pay for most of the groceries and truly don't have any money left after each paycheck but was worried my budget wouldn't be accepted. My lawyer listed several hundred dollars as contribution to household in lieu of rent and nothing was brought up today. My attorney did put $50 for my 8 year old rescue pitbull. She has cost me probably $10k over the years. Lol.
I couldn't have imagined doing this without a lawyer. It took me close to 5 months to get all the money together to pay him. I put a deposit down in October and filed March 29th.
Fingers crossed I don't hear anything the next 60 days and I'm discharged in July.
If anyone had any questions about my experience, I'm happy to answer! Having this community and support is very important!
submitted by FrameNo712 to Bankruptcy [link] [comments]


2024.05.18 02:47 WinsomeHorror Short Article in the San Fernando Valley Business Journal

Capstone Reorganizes Following Bankruptcy. Mostly an intro to the new CEO, but drops a few numbers:
Capstone emerged from Chapter 11 on Dec. 7, less than three months after filing the prepackaged plan. The agreement had Goldman Sachs take on 37.5% of the company’s ownership in a debt-for-equity exchange that reduced Capstone’s debt from $53 million to $23 million. The company also emerged with $7 million in new money and was at the start of the year sitting on around $25 million in inventory ready to be offloaded.
---
Problems Canino will have to solve include building trust with Capstone’s suppliers, moving more product in a timely manner and guiding the company to what Flexon says would be its first profit in at least two decades. Canino inherits a strong model to help build, which is Capstone’s energy-as-a-service offering – essentially, long-term rentals with maintenance of microgrid units to petroleum, agriculture and utility clients. In his time there, Canino says he has been developing protocols to promote stronger accountability and metrics across the departments.
(Mostly I'm interested that after months of not even crickets, I've found three new articles with the same cursory Google search I do every week. So, if nothing else, it seems like they're out shaking hands and making the rounds.)
submitted by WinsomeHorror to CGRN [link] [comments]


2024.05.18 02:30 dan8m8 Need advice on timeshare foreclosure. Management company sent my bill to collections.

I’ve decided, for better or worse, to stop paying my annual maintenance fee on my timeshare. Like many people, I gave in to the deceptive sales pitch and purchased a prime week in a popular ski town. The annual fees have become a burden and I have not used the property enough to justify the expense. After some research and professional advice, I decided to try to force a foreclosure. I stopped making the annual payments about 3 years ago and the management company has finally turned it over to collections. I plan to wait it out for as long as it takes for the management company to foreclose but I have questions about what happens next. The management company is small, maybe only the one resort. The debt is less than $5K and this is deeded property that is fully paid off.
How long will it take until the management company starts foreclosure? Will the annual fee still be charged while in collections? Should I communicate with anyone about my intentions or just let the process take its course?
submitted by dan8m8 to TimeshareOwners [link] [comments]


2024.05.18 01:51 Few_Special_1055 341 meeting less than a week a way #nervous

Hi!
So I’ll summarize my bankruptcy story. Moved a lot got married and made little to no money but banks kept approving me for credit cards and then I was 35k-40k in debt before I blinked.
Fast forward to 2022 I got talked into signing up with freedom debt relief who in two years settled one account after paying near thousands into the program in March 2024 I had a consultation with a bankruptcy lawyer stopped paying freedom and paid the lawyer and it was filed on April 22nd 2024 2 days after it was filed received my first ever summons for a civil lawsuit from Wells Fargo on one of the CC’s stay did away with that.
Only concern I have is 1. The 341 meeting nervous as heck. 2. With some mismanagement of my budget and my wife was off unpaid for spring break(works for school system) had to charged March rent and some formula and insurance bill for my newborn on one card and charged gas on another card hoping that doesn’t affect my discharge.
submitted by Few_Special_1055 to Bankruptcy [link] [comments]


2024.05.18 01:20 Affectionate_Net8461 Feeling Nervous After Meeting with Lawyer

I have been stressed about debt that just went into collections and after a long time of trying to stay afloat I decided to meet with a lawyer about bankruptcy. I have about $66K in CC debt and my husband has about $8K. I am filing by myself, but we need to include both of our income (me - $63K salary, him ~$40K hourly) and combined expenses.. I filled out the expenses sheet, and I guess I was confused by the "monthly" part of it because some of the expenses are like once in a while but not monthly (like clothing, car maintenance, etc).
I realize now after reading this that I probably didn't fill it out right because after calculating everything she kept telling me that we should have like $1,500 left at the end of every month (which is like CRAZY... I wish I could say that we did). She told me I needed more expenses, even suggesting my husband gets a car in his name (we share a car which is honestly pushing us to the breaking point stress wise but haven't made the move for a second car because we weren't sure we could afford the payments and I have a family member who will help with a small down payment to get us started and it would be a big relief for both of us and I guess from her words it would be reasonable to have a 2 cars as a 2 person household).
I guess I am just looking for advice on something I might have missed when reporting expenses.. I've turned to like eating smaller portions so I can have food last longer to wait to go to the grocery store. I hope this makes sense, I left the appointment feeling almost more stressed than I was before the appointment and now I have to wait the whole weekend for a follow up from the email I sent after the appointment telling them I need look at my expenses again. She had mentioned that we would work on the expenses and figure it out before I left but it almost seemed like this was going to make my life worse not better. Is my trying not to spend money to have money to pay debt going to end up biting me in the end?
Also, they told me to stop paying my credit cards immediately, but the case won't be filed until June sometime, once I get my documentation in order. Is there a reason for that? Just feel like it's going to cause emails and alerts of missed payments that will just add to my stress. I appreciate any insight or similar experiences.
submitted by Affectionate_Net8461 to Bankruptcy [link] [comments]


2024.05.18 00:48 Worldly_Bus_2415 Filing Bankruptcy before or after signing up for the US Army

Hello all
Correct or close answers please. I am about to join the military but I have been in deep debt of over 60k and I wanna join the military, so my question is can is it better for me to hold my bankruptcy filling until after I have finished my Bootcamp training or I can file before or during the process of becoming a US soldier.
submitted by Worldly_Bus_2415 to Militaryfaq [link] [comments]


2024.05.17 22:43 gordodendron Facing eviction

I've been behind on rent for months, really for the better part of the last year or two getting it paid by the end of the month either on my own and/or with assistance from friends/family or local charities. Finding gainful employment has been difficult living in a college town with limited opportunities for various reasons. My main source of income has been delivery driving on a few gig apps but it's just not sustainable, on top of managing mental health struggles as best as I can despite therapy and meds.
I got a great job back in Feb that I tried getting for 4 months before I finally heard from them (no other callbacks from applications in the meantime). It was $19/hr full-time, benefits day 1, relatively easy packaging job at a local beer brewery with a rotating schedule. Everything was going fine until only a month in I was suddenly let go for "unprofessional behavior" with no explanation or anything addressed beforehand. I live in an at-will state so I know they didn't need to provide any reasoning, and I also couldn't qualify for unemployment because I hadn't earned enough in the previous 18 month period to qualify per the criteria.
I started applying for jobs the same day after I got home that morning and continued delivery driving, but haven't been able to make enough to pay rent aside from a few hundred for April, with the balance rolling over into May. I was notified via email from my landlords that the full balance would need to be paid by today 5/17, or they would file eviction Monday 5/20. This happened last Sept and I was able to get help from a local charity that covered the balance and more to give a bridge, so I can reach out to them again on Monday if I get the notice to see if they can help again but afraid to hold my breath on it.
I was finally able after 2 months of job hunting to get a part-time job that I started this Monday and will get my first paycheck on or by the 31st and also make up the difference to delivery driving to cover the balance, which I left a message today with my leasing office before going into work in case they're willing to accept that or proceed with the eviction process. Either way this is all I can tell the court unless a charity can help.
Part of me wants to accept it and leave, although I'm concerned about how I'll handle it mentally having to find a place to live in a few weeks, the physical move itself, downsizing, etc and all the stress and logistics that come along with that, as I plan on filing bankruptcy anyway in the near future or whenever I'm able to afford the ~$500 to start it. The reason for filing will be to also relieve a very upside down car loan, as well as medical debts. So it would resolve the eviction as well, and while a bankruptcy won't look good on my credit, it's already tanked anyway so rebuilding from the ground up is the plan regardless.
However I obviously don't want to lose my home of the last 4 years, but I'm not confident my landlord will be comfortable accepting this situation again. My lease was renewed automatically for 6mos, ending again on/around the new year, which I do want to uproot again anyway. It just sucks that this may be happening in this way much sooner.
This is mostly a vent, but I'm just tired of the struggle and don't really know where my head is at anymore.
submitted by gordodendron to povertyfinance [link] [comments]


2024.05.17 22:13 Frnklfrwsr Adult child is considering bankruptcy - need advice

Hi all, I am hoping people with experience with bankruptcy can offer some advice as I'm trying to help out my adult child (20yo) and his roommate (21yo) who are going through an incredibly tough time right now. I have some means to help them out a little, but I definitely don't have the means to bail them completely out of the hole that they're in.
They currently live in Oklahoma, but most of their debt is from other states (Maine and/or Arizona).
Here's the good (and honestly I think it's a very solid foundation):
Shelter: They just signed a 12-month lease for a small place they don't have to share with anyone else but each other. No shared walls. $925/month. Lease goes until May 2025. Decent likelihood that as long as he pays on time every month there would be no issue with renewing at that time, even if his credit is terrible at that time.
Income: They both work remotely, and make $14.5 per hour gross. After taxes are withheld, estimated take-home pay of $2,000 per month each, or $4,000 total
Absolute minimum living expenses: utilities between gas, electric and internet (needed for their remote work) estimated at $400 per month. Necessary medications $200 per month. Car insurance $200/month (which may be cuttable short-term maybe, will explain below).
Health: overall their physical health is okay. Not super fit but no super major health issues that prevents them from working or from walking/biking reasonable distances for things.
Walking/Biking distance: 3/4 mile away is Walmart Supercenter (grocery, clothes, pharmacy, auto center, etc), Walgreens, Aldi's. It's a bit far to walk back home with a lot of groceries, but with something like an electric bike very reasonable. There's also a bus stop 1 block away from their place, and it drops off directly at the shopping center. Bus pass is $44/month/person.
Here's the bad (and the ugly):
Car payment is $520 per month, and they're already one month behind. But the car isn't really usable. They only got it a few months ago but there's major mechanical issues that make it unsafe to drive. They don't want to keep the car, they don't even feel safe driving it except in an absolute emergency.
Auto debt is roughly $20K for this unusable car. That debt is in both their names. The roommate also has credit card debt adding up to $50K.
They also have almost nothing needed for this new place they just started leasing. Basics like a bed, pots/pans for cooking, microwave, etc, they need to get.
Their current cash on hand is basically $0.
Questions for you: Should one or both of them be pursuing bankruptcy to try to dismiss the $20K of auto debt and/or $50K of credit card debt? How long does that process take? What is the smartest things they can be doing to prepare for something like that? What can I do to assist them that limits the risk of them negatively affecting my own credit?
For example, once they've cleared up their situation, I was considering making my kid an authorized user on one of my credit cards that has car insurance automatically built into it when it's used to rent a car. It would be a credit card with a very low limit (<$1K) that I would monitor closely that he could use for incidentals that we agree on, and if he needed to rent a car for like maybe 1 day to run a bunch of errands that absolutely require a car he could. But he could also use it to easily grab an UbeLyft if needed. It could also help him with building his credit back up again.
I was also considering purchasing an e-bike for him to help him get around once the car inevitably gets taken away, but I want to make sure that's not a possession that he'd be at risk of losing in a potential bankruptcy.
I'd be willing to help pay for the legal/court filing costs for them to go through bankruptcy if it can be done relatively cheaply.
submitted by Frnklfrwsr to povertyfinance [link] [comments]


2024.05.17 20:14 Dry-Personality-4868 Feel like I’m drowning in debt

I (26f) have got about $45.5k in cc debt and $28k in remaining car loan. I had perfect credit and zero debt until last year. I married my husband and unfortunately my mom swore up and down that putting the wedding expenses on my cc would work out ok cause we would get it all back in gift money after the wedding and be able to pay it off. Not even close! So now I’m stuck with all this debt and wish I never listened to her and had that big of a wedding. We also had our first child last year so I was out of work a few months on mat leave. I work as a caregiver so once my clients die I’m out of work until I find someone else, which means there could be a month or two where I’m out of work. I lost my job right after my mat leave, so we couldn’t afford to pay rent anymore (depleted our savings getting us thru maternity leave) so we had to emergency move into my dad’s apartment. He lives in a tiny government assistance apartment, it’s full of cockroaches and there’s nowhere to park our car so we park overnight at a park a mile away and walk back every night just hoping we don’t get towed.
Expenses: for now we don’t pay rent/utilities/wifi so we have phone, storage unit (for our apartment things while we find a place to live), car+insurance, life insurance, gas, groceries, Netflix, pet food, barber, and baby expenses. Adding in cc minimums and our expenses are around 3-3.5k. I work 4 nights/week and have asked for more nights but they said no. Currently looking for another client but it’s hard to find right away. Hubby works 8-5 m-f making $2700/month. He works Uber on weekends. He just came to the country last year so is having a hard time finding a decent job. I’m still in school so don’t have an actual career yet too.
We live in SoCal so rents for 1bed would be ~$2k. Trying to find a roommate but it’s hard when you’re a full family. I feel hopeless for getting out of this debt and considering bankruptcy. With how unsteady my income is and no savings I don’t see how we can get out of this debt. Dad won’t let us stay here for long. Just looking for advice or if bankruptcy is the best option for us. Thanks
submitted by Dry-Personality-4868 to debtfree [link] [comments]


2024.05.17 20:07 tareekpetareek Manpasand was an accounting fraud with beverages on the side

Manpasand was an accounting fraud with beverages on the side
Original Source: https://boringmoney.in/p/manpasand-an-accounting-fraud (my newsletter Boring Money. Do visit the original link and subscribe if you'd like to receive similar posts directly in your inbox)

Let’s say you’re a company that wants to commit an elaborate fraud. What is the most egregious fraud that you can think of?
Maybe let’s not start with egregious. Let’s start with something simple! Here’s something that’s reasonably common:
  1. Pay people to buy your product (or like give them huge discounts or whatever). Inflate your revenue. Lie about your actual customers.
  2. Hype your company up. Do an IPO, take your company public. Sell some of your own stock.
  3. Slowly try fixing your numbers. If you happen to succeed, that’s great! You win. If you don’t succeed, you still win? You’ve done your IPO and sold some stock. That’s a lot of money.
This is the simple kind of fraud, which also makes it difficult to identify. You might have to talk to the company’s customers, read the fine print in its disclosures, do sanity checks of its financials, that sort of stuff. It’s tough to catch the simple kind of fraud, which is also why so much of it exists in the form of whispers and rumours without ever getting proven.
Now let’s go egregious:
  1. Why pay people to buy your product? Hell, why even have a product? Just manifest in your imagination that there are hundreds of thousands of people buying whatever you’re selling and write it down.
  2. Hype your company up! Do an IPO, sell some stock. This part remains the same.
  3. Don’t bother fixing your numbers. Instead, keep publishing imaginary revenue figures. Keep selling stock to public investors. Publish your financials every quarter with whatever numbers you like.
If you do this, there’s only so far you can go. Eventually, your hype will attract attention and someone might figure out that both your customers and product were creative imagination.
Here’s a SEBI order from late in April about Manpasand Beverages. Manpasand used to be a beverages company based in Gujarat. In 2019 the company shut down because it got caught in a bunch of frauds. It’s only now that SEBI published the details of what was happening. Probably best summarised by fund manager Amit Mantri: [1]
https://preview.redd.it/o85shr8p3y0d1.jpg?width=603&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26ace208d28eae2bb2401449f9b1dcc6bd1eefd0

Fake it till you make it (or don’t)

Manpasand faked its revenue (of course). It also faked its expenses, customers, vendors, tax liabilities, etc. How did it get away with doing this stuff? I don’t know, someone’s gotta ask Deloitte. They were Manpasand’s auditor for eight years, resigning only in 2018. The company’s fraud came out officially in 2019—Deloitte, whose job was to make sure the books were right and also had access to all the inside information, figured that something was off only a year earlier!
Anyway, SEBI appointed its own auditor to figure out what was wrong with Manpasand’s accounts and the auditor came back with a bunch of stuff. [2]
Here’s the bit about Manpasand inflating its revenue. From SEBI’s order:
… CGST vide letter dated July 07, 2019, inter alia, informed that Manpasand had shown inflated sales figure in its balance sheet by way of receipt/ supply of fake invoices without actual receipt/ supply of goods. It was further informed in the said letter that Manpasand had floated 38 bogus/paper firms to inflate its turnover and that inward and outward transactions made with such bogus firms amount to Rs.188.48 Crore and Rs. 691.30 Crore, respectively.
Manpasand created 38 different companies and it both “sold” its products to those companies as well as “bought” stuff from some of them. Basically, Manpasand created real companies to play the role of its customers and vendors.
… it was observed that the parties with whom transactions amounting to Rs.29.84 Crore were entered into, were not registered for dealing in the said goods/products being manufactured by the Company. Further, there was non-receipt of sale considerations and debtors balance were adjusted by passing journal entries
Manpasand was a beverages company that was selling stuff to its customers. Traditionally a company like Manpasand might have distributors as customers but Manpasand’s customers were registered as something else entirely (I do wonder what, the order doesn’t mention it). These are fake customers that Manpasand created out of thin air. Establishing companies is quite a bit of effort! Why half-ass the part where you select the “business type”? I sort of understand though. I’ve done it too. Put so much effort into something that you’re bored by the end that you muck it up.
I’m kidding! The real reason is probably that Manpasand wouldn’t have actually created these fake companies itself. There would be a middleman who would have them made in advance, all ready to go whenever needed to do fraud.
Manpasand propped up its sales as well as its expenses by pretty much just funnelling money around from one entity to the other. In some instances, it wouldn’t even move real money around. It would just note down that it had to pay one company, and had to also collect payments from another company, and then cancel each other out. Manpasand was running its accounts on Splitwise.
In general, there is nothing wrong with a company having such set-off arrangements. If you know your creditor owes money to your debtor, sure, cancel those transactions out. But how likely is it that a company’s suppliers and distributors know each other? And transact with each other?
This post is public so feel free to share it.

All except death and taxes

If you’re planning to do some accounting fraud, here’s something to keep in mind. I mean, I’m not not recommending that you do fraud, but if you do have your mind made up I might as well pass this along. Fake your sales, that’s fine. Fake your expenses, that’s fine too. But don’t fake your taxes, those guys will come after you.
In 2019 right before Manpasand shut down, GST officials raided its offices and arrested the CEO, CFO and a director. If you think about it, one of the reasons Manpasand got away with its fraud for as long as it did was that its accounts looked reasonably realistic. Deloitte made sure of that! Manpasand didn’t just arbitrarily put in fake numbers, oh no. It showed transactions to back them up with actual companies.
But any sales or purchases bring with it a cute goods and services tax, and the GST folks don’t care all that much about the fact that your sales are real. They’d like their share anyway. And not the GST you owe them, but because of how GST works, they would also want the GST your vendors (and your vendors’ vendors) might owe them.
GST has this magical thing called “input tax credit” which is basically the GST council giving you magic points every time you pay GST as a customer. Say, you buy some glass to make some marbles. You pay GST when you buy that glass, and you get some magic points. When you sell your freshly manufactured marbles, you collect GST from your customers and can redeem those magic points which you got earlier to reduce the GST you actually pay. (This isn’t tax advice so don’t come after me if you mess up your taxes because of anything you read here.)
These points are nice because they help save tax. But a basic requirement to use these points is that the company you bought your glass from has to have paid their fair share of GST in the first place! You only get the points if they’ve paid their tax! In Manpasand’s case the vendors it was dealing with existed solely for the purpose of enabling accounting fraud. Of course they weren’t going to be paying any tax. And yet Manpasand was claiming the magic points and reducing the GST it paid. These fake magic points is how the GST people figured out that there was something very wrong happening.
If the GST raid hadn’t happened, would Manpasand have survived as a company? Absolutely not. But would it have survived longer than it did? Probably.

Roll over, it’s a takeover

Things have already been a bit bizarre but what follows next is absolutely basket case. Here’s a section of Manpasand’s response to SEBI. From SEBI’s order:
The Company is a victim of a pre-planned, fraudulent scheme and conspiracy perpetrated by Finquest Financial Solutions Pvt Ltd (FINQUEST) wherein under the garb of promise to provide working capital worth Rs.100 Crores, six documents were executed by and between MBL & FINQUEST. Within a span of two and a half months, it was clear that this entire so called transaction of providing working capital loan was nothing but a mere play to gain the entire control of MBL which is having asset base of around Rs.625 Crores…
Finquest is an NBFC that lent money to Manpasand right after the GST raid happened and its officials were all in jail. Manpasand is claiming that Finquest’s goal wasn’t to just lend to the company and earn an interest income out of it, but to take over the company itself. Manpasand claims that Finquest defrauded it and even calls whatever they did a “hostile takeover”.
Let’s humour this idea for a bit. If you’re a listed company worried about a hostile takeover, you’d look at who’s buying your stock. That’s the normal way for hostile takeovers to work. You wake up one day to realise that Elon owns 9% of your and immediately fall into a state of panic. If you don’t own enough of your company, Elon just might.
Another hostile takeover could be by a distressed debt investor. You may have taken a loan from some banks or whoever some time back. The banks would’ve sold your loans to outside investors. But then because you’re in tough times, the investors would want to rid themselves of your loans at a discount. This distressed debt is then caught by investors trained in the art of recovering dollars from pennies. If you can’t repay your loans to these guys, they would be more than happy to squeeze it out of you.
This is what happened with Byju’s US unit. But really, hostile takeovers aren’t common with distressed debt investors. They don’t want to run your company! They want their money back with some (a lot) of interest. [3]
Finquest lent to Manpasand, it didn’t buy its stock. So maybe this was the second kind of hostile takeover, the distressed debt kind? Well, here’s Abhishek Singh, then director of Manpasand in an interview with Business Today back in 2019:
Business Today: Dhirendra Singh [the CEO] has accused Finquest of a hostile takeover bid, while Finquest claims that it was always mentioned in the term-sheet that the company will be managed by a professional team until its money was parked with you. It will be nice to get your side of the story.
Singh: Whatever amount has been transferred by the Finquest in the bank account of MBL was done in the new account opened by FFSPL's representatives in the name of MBL. The control of this new bank account lies with FFSPL's representatives. FFSPL was allowed operational access to business of MBL and not financial access, as per the term sheet dated July 3, 2019.
…As per the term sheet dated July 3, 2019, FFSPL had right to nominate two directors on the Board of Directors of MBL, which shall constitute minimum one-third strength of the Board. Pursuant to this clause, FFSPL appointed three directors instead of two. The total strength of the board became six directors, one-third of this comes to two. Thus, one more director being a nominee of FFSPL was appointed.
… What? Manpasand borrowed money from Finquest but the bank account where the money came in was controlled by Finquest? And Finquest got “operational access” (whatever that means) as well as a third of Manpasand’s board seats? This isn’t a hostile takeover! It’s a lamblike takeover.
Honestly, I get it. Manpasand’s CEO and others were in jail. The company needed money. The only lender willing to lend to a shady company whose executives are in jail would be a shady lender. And that shady lender was Finquest—which, by the way, had done something similar before—but Manpasand took what it got.
If there’s a second “don’t do this if you’re doing fraud” lesson in this, it’s this. Don’t borrow from a loan shark!
Footnotes
[1] A nice factoid is that Amit Mantri was the first to point out that Manpasand was manipulating its numbers all the way back in 2016. They did some really good on-ground research!
[2] The auditor that SEBI assigned to do this, Chokshi & Chokshi, came back with 12 findings from Manpasand’s accounts. But I think I found a couple of mistakes? It wouldn’t in any way affect SEBI’s conclusion on Manpasand, but I find it funny that a story which is essentially about an auditor’s massive failure to do its job also has an auditor that probably wasn’t too careful themselves? I’ll probably write about this in a future post.
[3] A distressed debt investor would prefer to take over a company to be able to put it into bankruptcy so that it can sell the company’s assets and recover its money. That’s very different from what the kind of takeover that Elon did of Twitter.
Original Source: https://boringmoney.in/p/manpasand-an-accounting-fraud
submitted by tareekpetareek to u/tareekpetareek [link] [comments]


2024.05.17 20:05 tareekpetareek For finance enthusiasts here: Manpasand was an accounting fraud with beverages on the side

For finance enthusiasts here: Manpasand was an accounting fraud with beverages on the side
Original Source: https://boringmoney.in/p/manpasand-an-accounting-fraud (my newsletter Boring Money. Do visit the original link and subscribe if you'd like to receive similar posts directly in your inbox)

Let’s say you’re a company that wants to commit an elaborate fraud. What is the most egregious fraud that you can think of?
Maybe let’s not start with egregious. Let’s start with something simple! Here’s something that’s reasonably common:
  1. Pay people to buy your product (or like give them huge discounts or whatever). Inflate your revenue. Lie about your actual customers.
  2. Hype your company up. Do an IPO, take your company public. Sell some of your own stock.
  3. Slowly try fixing your numbers. If you happen to succeed, that’s great! You win. If you don’t succeed, you still win? You’ve done your IPO and sold some stock. That’s a lot of money.
This is the simple kind of fraud, which also makes it difficult to identify. You might have to talk to the company’s customers, read the fine print in its disclosures, do sanity checks of its financials, that sort of stuff. It’s tough to catch the simple kind of fraud, which is also why so much of it exists in the form of whispers and rumours without ever getting proven.
Now let’s go egregious:
  1. Why pay people to buy your product? Hell, why even have a product? Just manifest in your imagination that there are hundreds of thousands of people buying whatever you’re selling and write it down.
  2. Hype your company up! Do an IPO, sell some stock. This part remains the same.
  3. Don’t bother fixing your numbers. Instead, keep publishing imaginary revenue figures. Keep selling stock to public investors. Publish your financials every quarter with whatever numbers you like.
If you do this, there’s only so far you can go. Eventually, your hype will attract attention and someone might figure out that both your customers and product were creative imagination.
Here’s a SEBI order from late in April about Manpasand Beverages. Manpasand used to be a beverages company based in Gujarat. In 2019 the company shut down because it got caught in a bunch of frauds. It’s only now that SEBI published the details of what was happening. Probably best summarised by fund manager Amit Mantri: [1]
https://preview.redd.it/o85shr8p3y0d1.jpg?width=603&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26ace208d28eae2bb2401449f9b1dcc6bd1eefd0

Fake it till you make it (or don’t)

Manpasand faked its revenue (of course). It also faked its expenses, customers, vendors, tax liabilities, etc. How did it get away with doing this stuff? I don’t know, someone’s gotta ask Deloitte. They were Manpasand’s auditor for eight years, resigning only in 2018. The company’s fraud came out officially in 2019—Deloitte, whose job was to make sure the books were right and also had access to all the inside information, figured that something was off only a year earlier!
Anyway, SEBI appointed its own auditor to figure out what was wrong with Manpasand’s accounts and the auditor came back with a bunch of stuff. [2]
Here’s the bit about Manpasand inflating its revenue. From SEBI’s order:
… CGST vide letter dated July 07, 2019, inter alia, informed that Manpasand had shown inflated sales figure in its balance sheet by way of receipt/ supply of fake invoices without actual receipt/ supply of goods. It was further informed in the said letter that Manpasand had floated 38 bogus/paper firms to inflate its turnover and that inward and outward transactions made with such bogus firms amount to Rs.188.48 Crore and Rs. 691.30 Crore, respectively.
Manpasand created 38 different companies and it both “sold” its products to those companies as well as “bought” stuff from some of them. Basically, Manpasand created real companies to play the role of its customers and vendors.
… it was observed that the parties with whom transactions amounting to Rs.29.84 Crore were entered into, were not registered for dealing in the said goods/products being manufactured by the Company. Further, there was non-receipt of sale considerations and debtors balance were adjusted by passing journal entries
Manpasand was a beverages company that was selling stuff to its customers. Traditionally a company like Manpasand might have distributors as customers but Manpasand’s customers were registered as something else entirely (I do wonder what, the order doesn’t mention it). These are fake customers that Manpasand created out of thin air. Establishing companies is quite a bit of effort! Why half-ass the part where you select the “business type”? I sort of understand though. I’ve done it too. Put so much effort into something that you’re bored by the end that you muck it up.
I’m kidding! The real reason is probably that Manpasand wouldn’t have actually created these fake companies itself. There would be a middleman who would have them made in advance, all ready to go whenever needed to do fraud.
Manpasand propped up its sales as well as its expenses by pretty much just funnelling money around from one entity to the other. In some instances, it wouldn’t even move real money around. It would just note down that it had to pay one company, and had to also collect payments from another company, and then cancel each other out. Manpasand was running its accounts on Splitwise.
In general, there is nothing wrong with a company having such set-off arrangements. If you know your creditor owes money to your debtor, sure, cancel those transactions out. But how likely is it that a company’s suppliers and distributors know each other? And transact with each other?
This post is public so feel free to share it.

All except death and taxes

If you’re planning to do some accounting fraud, here’s something to keep in mind. I mean, I’m not not recommending that you do fraud, but if you do have your mind made up I might as well pass this along. Fake your sales, that’s fine. Fake your expenses, that’s fine too. But don’t fake your taxes, those guys will come after you.
In 2019 right before Manpasand shut down, GST officials raided its offices and arrested the CEO, CFO and a director. If you think about it, one of the reasons Manpasand got away with its fraud for as long as it did was that its accounts looked reasonably realistic. Deloitte made sure of that! Manpasand didn’t just arbitrarily put in fake numbers, oh no. It showed transactions to back them up with actual companies.
But any sales or purchases bring with it a cute goods and services tax, and the GST folks don’t care all that much about the fact that your sales are real. They’d like their share anyway. And not the GST you owe them, but because of how GST works, they would also want the GST your vendors (and your vendors’ vendors) might owe them.
GST has this magical thing called “input tax credit” which is basically the GST council giving you magic points every time you pay GST as a customer. Say, you buy some glass to make some marbles. You pay GST when you buy that glass, and you get some magic points. When you sell your freshly manufactured marbles, you collect GST from your customers and can redeem those magic points which you got earlier to reduce the GST you actually pay. (This isn’t tax advice so don’t come after me if you mess up your taxes because of anything you read here.)
These points are nice because they help save tax. But a basic requirement to use these points is that the company you bought your glass from has to have paid their fair share of GST in the first place! You only get the points if they’ve paid their tax! In Manpasand’s case the vendors it was dealing with existed solely for the purpose of enabling accounting fraud. Of course they weren’t going to be paying any tax. And yet Manpasand was claiming the magic points and reducing the GST it paid. These fake magic points is how the GST people figured out that there was something very wrong happening.
If the GST raid hadn’t happened, would Manpasand have survived as a company? Absolutely not. But would it have survived longer than it did? Probably.

Roll over, it’s a takeover

Things have already been a bit bizarre but what follows next is absolutely basket case. Here’s a section of Manpasand’s response to SEBI. From SEBI’s order:
The Company is a victim of a pre-planned, fraudulent scheme and conspiracy perpetrated by Finquest Financial Solutions Pvt Ltd (FINQUEST) wherein under the garb of promise to provide working capital worth Rs.100 Crores, six documents were executed by and between MBL & FINQUEST. Within a span of two and a half months, it was clear that this entire so called transaction of providing working capital loan was nothing but a mere play to gain the entire control of MBL which is having asset base of around Rs.625 Crores…
Finquest is an NBFC that lent money to Manpasand right after the GST raid happened and its officials were all in jail. Manpasand is claiming that Finquest’s goal wasn’t to just lend to the company and earn an interest income out of it, but to take over the company itself. Manpasand claims that Finquest defrauded it and even calls whatever they did a “hostile takeover”.
Let’s humour this idea for a bit. If you’re a listed company worried about a hostile takeover, you’d look at who’s buying your stock. That’s the normal way for hostile takeovers to work. You wake up one day to realise that Elon owns 9% of your and immediately fall into a state of panic. If you don’t own enough of your company, Elon just might.
Another hostile takeover could be by a distressed debt investor. You may have taken a loan from some banks or whoever some time back. The banks would’ve sold your loans to outside investors. But then because you’re in tough times, the investors would want to rid themselves of your loans at a discount. This distressed debt is then caught by investors trained in the art of recovering dollars from pennies. If you can’t repay your loans to these guys, they would be more than happy to squeeze it out of you.
This is what happened with Byju’s US unit. But really, hostile takeovers aren’t common with distressed debt investors. They don’t want to run your company! They want their money back with some (a lot) of interest. [3]
Finquest lent to Manpasand, it didn’t buy its stock. So maybe this was the second kind of hostile takeover, the distressed debt kind? Well, here’s Abhishek Singh, then director of Manpasand in an interview with Business Today back in 2019:
Business Today: Dhirendra Singh [the CEO] has accused Finquest of a hostile takeover bid, while Finquest claims that it was always mentioned in the term-sheet that the company will be managed by a professional team until its money was parked with you. It will be nice to get your side of the story.
Singh: Whatever amount has been transferred by the Finquest in the bank account of MBL was done in the new account opened by FFSPL's representatives in the name of MBL. The control of this new bank account lies with FFSPL's representatives. FFSPL was allowed operational access to business of MBL and not financial access, as per the term sheet dated July 3, 2019.
…As per the term sheet dated July 3, 2019, FFSPL had right to nominate two directors on the Board of Directors of MBL, which shall constitute minimum one-third strength of the Board. Pursuant to this clause, FFSPL appointed three directors instead of two. The total strength of the board became six directors, one-third of this comes to two. Thus, one more director being a nominee of FFSPL was appointed.
… What? Manpasand borrowed money from Finquest but the bank account where the money came in was controlled by Finquest? And Finquest got “operational access” (whatever that means) as well as a third of Manpasand’s board seats? This isn’t a hostile takeover! It’s a lamblike takeover.
Honestly, I get it. Manpasand’s CEO and others were in jail. The company needed money. The only lender willing to lend to a shady company whose executives are in jail would be a shady lender. And that shady lender was Finquest—which, by the way, had done something similar before—but Manpasand took what it got.
If there’s a second “don’t do this if you’re doing fraud” lesson in this, it’s this. Don’t borrow from a loan shark!
Footnotes
[1] A nice factoid is that Amit Mantri was the first to point out that Manpasand was manipulating its numbers all the way back in 2016. They did some really good on-ground research!
[2] The auditor that SEBI assigned to do this, Chokshi & Chokshi, came back with 12 findings from Manpasand’s accounts. But I think I found a couple of mistakes? It wouldn’t in any way affect SEBI’s conclusion on Manpasand, but I find it funny that a story which is essentially about an auditor’s massive failure to do its job also has an auditor that probably wasn’t too careful themselves? I’ll probably write about this in a future post.
[3] A distressed debt investor would prefer to take over a company to be able to put it into bankruptcy so that it can sell the company’s assets and recover its money. That’s very different from what the kind of takeover that Elon did of Twitter.
Original Source: https://boringmoney.in/p/manpasand-an-accounting-fraud
submitted by tareekpetareek to unitedstatesofindia [link] [comments]


2024.05.17 17:57 hanban0112 Trying to consolidate debt to lower monthly minimum payments

So long story short: my husband and I have gotten into a significant amount of credit card debt. He lost his job and after struggling to find a new one, found one which he makes great money. I am still currently and student and work full time but my pay is not anything spectacular as I work in a school that’s pretty low income. The minimums alone on our debt is killing us. I have been trying to figure out how to consolidate our debt that doesn’t involve debt relief or bankruptcy. They always tell us that the income isn’t a problem it’s the amount of debt to that income. Our credit isn’t great thanks to this whole situation so finding a company that will actually work with us, including credit unions is few and far between. I have student loans which are still in their grace period because I’m currently still a student. But they still show up on my credit report, even after I have proved to companies the loans are in their grace still. Does anyone have similar experience? I just don’t want my credit to plummet.
submitted by hanban0112 to Debt [link] [comments]


2024.05.17 16:32 Micim98 Should I be considering Bankruptcy?

I have had some major debt problems over the last few years only made worse by my previous medical conditions, however things are starting to get better and I am making more money but I still feel like I wont be able to dig myself out of this situation myself with my current living situation.
I currently make about $41k per year before taxes which reduces to about $29k after taxes, insurance, and required VRS and 401k minimum contributions. I do not know the exact amount of debt but it's probably in the ballpark of $8k to $16k all most all of it is in collections and about half being medical. I recently got a civil claim for money to the tune of about $950 and while I am going to try to settle it out of court, I am not really sure I am going to have the funds by my court date in mid July.
Right now my current fixed expenses are a $115 month car payment, $91 a month for insurance, $130 a month phone bill, two credit cards that both have a $35 a month minimum payment. I also have various subscriptions that I've recently started removed and am down to less than $100 a month on those but am trying to cut them out almost completely. I live at home and usually pay $600 to $900 a month to help supplement my mom's income so we just barely make ends meet. The rest usually goes towards food and clothing (new job has a dress code but I finally almost have 2 weeks worth of clothing saved up). One thing to keep in mind is all of my mom's income goes towards the 2 HELOC's (about $750 a month), water, electricity, and her own expenses including her vehicle that is starting to get up in age.
I probably spend about $120 on gas every month and car maintenance varies but it's getting higher as the car has 233k miles on it (car is my only option 60 mile daily round trip, no one car pools this far out and there is no public transportation) I also tend to eat out a lot as I usually work 3 nine hour shifts and 2 six hour shifts a week which I am trying to cut back on by making food at home, our oven is broken though which makes cooking food challenging there are also several major and minor repairs that need to be made around the house that we just simply can not afford in our current state.
I was about to start payment plans on one of the bigger debts I owed (about $4700) that would have been an extra $115 a month but now that I need to come up with $950 by July I feel like that is too much of a risk to take on that extra amount of fixed monthly payments but I am also worried that they are also going to come after me like that one creditor is doing. I am mostly past the health issues that were causing all the medical debt to pile up so I should be good on that front.
My credit is already in the toilet so filing for bankruptcy probably won't make it any worse, I'm also not sure what kind of Bankruptcy to file, I know that Chapter 7 discharges a lot of stuff but also they will seize assets and I could not afford to lose my car as it's my only form of transportation and I don't really own much of anything but also would not be willing to part with some of the stuff that I do own (I have a PC and a NAS that probably total about $1200 if they were sold today but they have a lot of important data on them both.) It's also my understanding that Chapter 13 usually requires a lawyer as it's much more complicated than Chapter 7.
I have not consulted with any debt management companies, mainly because I have not had the excess funds to do so, but if that is a good idea I will look into it, I more so just need some outside opinions on what to do next as I've been looking up a lot of stuff and am really not sure what would be the best way to proceed. In the short term I need to figure out how to deal with this civil claim for money especially if I am not going to have the funds by my court date and they refuse to settle out of court but I would like to get this debt issue resolved so I can start actually piecing my life back together.
UPDATE: Just pulled my credit report and interestingly a lot of the debt is just missing... I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing but it's missing from all 3 reports. One is for $5797 and one is for $849. The $849 is the one I assume I have the civil claim for but I am unsure why the other debt is just missing from my credit reports. Also have 3 accounts in good standing which are my auto loan and 2 credit cards
UPDATE 2: Just pulled my Equifax, first one was Transunion and it shows even less only showing my Revolving and Installments. I'm really not sure what is going on but I easily had over $8k minimum in debt, I'm really not sure if I should waste my 3rd yearly credit pull right now but I was not expecting those debts to just disappears from my report especially since I am still being harassed about them
submitted by Micim98 to personalfinance [link] [comments]


http://rodzice.org/