Monavie presentation

Can money be made in MLM (Multi-level Marketing)? Yes, but only for the top 1% who join in the very beginning.
Who am I? I am a woman who made this post because of my brief experience in MLMs and my close friend thinking she is just doing network marketing for an eventual high payout for years of work, which she is being scammed out of potential money and time that could be spent better with her or another company. She tells me over and over again, "Not everyone is a bad apple," as an excuse for company behavior.
I am someone who wants to see her friend out of an MLM once I found out the truth. My friend told me that I am being "negative" and "arrogant" or wanting to expose MLMs because she still believes she is going to make great money in World Financial Group, affiliated with Aegon. She tells me she sees the difference between Lynch and Charles Schwab, which helps her understand a company's model and what is normal. She tells me she worked with investors at Merrill Lynch before World Financial Group (check out Merill Lynch's consumer reports for curiosity: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/merrill.html and Merill Lynch is not even BBB accredited: https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/new-york/profile/investment-security/merrill-lynch-co-inc-complaint-address-0121-317). She says Transamerica, Nationwide, and Everest are all legal companies that people go independently to, which means, to her, that World Financial Group is a valid and good company. It may be legal, but does that make is it actually good?
Because my friend is completely brainwashed by World Financial Group, an insurance-based MLM, I'd like to share everything I learned trying to convince her to get out of a pyramid-shaped company that relies on recruits to make the majority of their money. Perhaps this can help you or a friend. If so, it is worth all of effort for me. I love my friend very much, just like you love yours. Let's share the real information of what MLMs do to impoverished communities through facts.
Scroll down for government article links on MLMs and why 99% of people in them lose money.
The way a pyramid is shaped means that only the top 1% in the pyramid make money. In order to be in the top 1%, typically you have to join an MLM in the first year. Here's a fact: World Financial Group began in 2011. Ummm...it’s 2020 right now. If you join WFG, not much is going to happen for you now. WFG began too long ago to make money in it today for new recruits, but they need recruits to keep money funneling to them for the top 1%.

In this review, I am going to use government based articles to explain why this setup at WFG and MLMs in general are a very bad idea of nearly everyone involved.

The information in this post includes answers to why MLMs are immoral, target minorities populations, and exploits people for money, and how MLMs breed poverty in already poverty-stricken communities (Latinos & African Americans). I mention race here because racial bias is important to consider when investing MLMs. I am going to show you valid points on why, with a foundational basis on math and facts to explain this to you, but I’m going to give you my personal story and thoughts as well. You should read the links from government websites to get the full picture on MLMs and World Financial Group, Transamerica, and all other MLMs = is all the same pyramid shaped system.

I’m going to demonstrate the moral point, that all pyramid-shaped MLMs are immoral and exploitative, even with WFG, who sells insurance policies, which is supposed to be a helpful benefit, right? Like my WFG friend tells me, "you're so confused. We help so many people. I know all about pyramids. They teach us all about pyramids."

My Background in MLMs:
My ex’s father was an MLM expert in the company MonaVie (2008). We will call him H. In the past, I used to be able to google H and easily find information from his name and his success, but it is like he disappeared from the internet. I used to admire H a lot. He was an African American man, tall, skinny, and very educated. He used to be homeless, but got into MLMs and other businesses, making a lot of money later. I went to his conferences for MonaVie with his 20's age son, and I recall he held his son a spot higher up in the company bracket so that his son could begin selling with a solid downline from recruits. From his son's words, H made approximately $300,000 per month for having people underneath him in an MLM. I was impressed because I thought MLMs were amazing if someone could make that much money.
When I looked up H's website, he charged $500 per phone call for his advice. I thought, in my early twenties, "Wow, this must be a smart man to charge that much for advice." Also, H was an engineer, which required a level of understanding in science and math beyond my scope. I remember listening to H's talks and he was a gifted speaker and dreamer ... he had a way with people and he recruited a lot of people beneath him. H was in the top 1% and made elite status in the MLM company. What H and other did not tell you is that no one except the first people that joined ever made the kind of money H made, not even close, despite all of the conferences he had in people signing up as new recruits.
Reflecting on H and what I know now, I am pretty disappointed that he knew how this worked, but still found it just fine to make all of these dreamers under him purchase products and lose money for his gain. It's a greedy world for the top MLM people.

MLMs will never work unless you joined in the very very early stages.

I almost joined an MLM 3x! I know, it's sad....
The last time it happened I was in a Chipotle getting lunch and surrounded by mostly men in business suits. One African American man approached me and we had a discussion about business. He ended up buying me a book (it was actually a good book) and that made our connection. Then, he tells me that someone higher up in the business, who made a lot of money, explained to him that he can change his life if he follows this system in Amway. It was a very touching story.....
Soon enough, and some Zoom calls later, I have to pass this reflective test and questionnaire to prove that I am someone that has the motivation and drive to be mentored by him. I was supposed to feel honored when I passed. After the passed first test, I am about to attend a meeting where everyone is going to clap for me because I passed the first step into this organizational pyramid called Amway....
Facts: 99.9% lost money in Amway. Check out the government article, first link.
My Amway mentor had a construction business and that was how he was doing well financially. There was no way he was able to leave Amway and retire on his benefits from the MLM, but everyone in the company acted like I was reallllly lucky to be working under him because of his status in Amway. Despite people saying he was about to retire from Amway and how well he was doing, he was probably too ashamed to admit he spent 10 years and all of his extra time thinking he was going to retire early because of Amway. I also question that supposedly rich man in his story that he could have racially targeted this person to him a worker and slave to Amway for losses, not gains....
I ended up googling Amway and found another man wrote a book on how Amway scammed him out of his life savings, despite being a top agent and never seeing any of the funds the top agents promoted. Everyone thought he was successful below him, but the truth was that he was in a lot of debt.
Since all pyramid-shaped business models in MLMs work the same way with building a business based on recruits and the products purchased, below will be examples why the MLM pyramid model (**which is in all MLMs) is not a moral business model.
Let me explain.... and please chime in if I said anything incorrect, you wonderful reddit people.

• All MLMs are setup similarly; it’s a pyramid shape. If anything is a pyramid shape, it needs money from the bottom to funnel up to the top. "You find X people, and those people find X people."
• MLMs often target minorities, single moms, and uneducated populations. They want recruits from every sector, but they target vulnerable populations.
• MLMs need recruits to keep the pyramid functioning, but it only gives big gains to the top 1% who first joined.
• MLMs have a product or service, but make most of their money through recruiting.
• MLMs have a product or service that their “agents/contractors/recruits” buy themselves.
• MLMs give unrealistic expectations that if you join, saying, "you can make a lot of money if you work hard, but no guarantees."
• MLMs convince you that you can be in the top 1% despite being at the bottom of the pyramid, but you never realize you’re at the bottom or how a pyramid works, but you think they have educated you....
• MLMs make money by recruiting others.
• MLMs have some kind of conferences or products they sell to you, usually motivational or spiritual in nature.
• MLMs want you to think you can be your own entrepreneur, but the truth is you will never have your own LLC or S-Corp in a Pyramid. Basically, you cannot branch off into your own business because you have to be connected by a leg in the pyramid, but they want you to think you're an independent business owner to keep getting and convincing recruits.
• MLMs target vulnerable populations, immigrant, and especially single mothers.
• MLMs use some type of manipulative tactics and want to explain to you in person on how the finances are setup.
• MLMs have some sort of cult-like nature to them, no matter how professional. They use manipulative tactics to pressure people into joining and FEAR is a motivator, especially pressuring people into life insurance policies …if something bad happens and you can secure your future, it guilt-trips people and the WFG agents think they are helping them and their finances, serving society and on a moral mission.
• MLMs use psychological principles for agents to say, “if you work hard, you will more likely get results.” This is not true. A pyramid is a collapsable business model and only the top get the money and rewards. They prey on people's self-doubt, making you think you are the reason why you did not get results.
• MLMs say now is the perfect time to join! Ever heard one say otherwise?
• MLMs try to say they are not like the other MLMs to disguise the fact it's a pyramid. They say not all MLMs are bad. Not all MLMs are evil. Many MLMs are even promoted as charities or affiliated with helping charities.
• They often say how terrible it is to work for employers when you can be your own entrepreneur and boss. The thing is, employers are actually better because they don't charge you to be an agent for them or make you purchase services from them. You get money from your hours worked and the employers assumes the risk of starting the company. Employers also don't make you lose 99% of your time and money.
• They say many companies have paid training **to justify you to keep paying them money.**
• MLMs, like World Financial Group, train you from the inside out. My friend at World Financial Group told me this herself. They do not let REAL financial advisors from universities come and talk about your MLM and how you can make money. She would not let me explain the model to a REAL financial advisor. She referred me to speak to her upline. It's always people in the group that "educate" you. My friend in WFG said, "People with PhDs don't know everything." I'm thinking....okay....that means we should not read scholarly articles that doesn't support your MLM goals?
• With MLMs, when the person does not get results, it’s because of the pyramid shape, not because of their effort, but they sadly blame themselves. That is why many people to stay in MLMs because they need emotional support, confidence, or feel lonely and having their uplines gives them an endorphin boost. Also, feeling like they are serving a life's mission, sell insurance, is a motivator in itself.
• MLMs do not supply you customers. Unlike working for a company like ATT, selling phones, MLMs make you hunt for them and use manipulative tactics (in the guise of you educating them or selling a product, but the goal is to get more recruits and people purchasing product/services).
• The World Financial Group MLM takes uneducated people about finance and gives them training on how to educate the public on their finances, charging them money for training. Does it make sense that people without a finance degree to be educating others on what to do with their money? Hmmmm. I'd rather you be an actual finance person.
• MLMs promote more than one income. It's important to have more than one income, in fact, people have many forms of income. Yes, that's because no one can support themselves on one income from am MLM where 99% are losing money,
• MLMs convince you that wherever in the bracket you are starting, you can actually make good money if you work hard enough. FALSE. You can never work against the odds of a pyramid model and make the money of the people in the top 1% because in every MLM, 99% lose money since YOU NEED RECRUITS to make the most of your money. SCAM ALERT. RED FLAG!
• WFG makes their agents eventually a financial advisor, helps them with licensing, and encourages them to get more recruits to feed other uneducated people for their uplines, specifically targeting minorities, thinking they are helping them secure their financial future being being more legitimate (but they reallllllly they disguise the fact that just need more recruits and trick themselves into thinking it's about the insurance).
• MLMs say we are not a pyramid scheme, those are illegal! Yes, but even legitmate businesses are legal and immoral. For example, Scientology is a terrible scam (check out Netflix documentary on Scientology by Leah Remini), but it is still legal. Just because something is legal, does not mean the pyramid is still immoral. They get to be a legitimate business because of the product they are selling; this is the government's loophole for them to exist.
• MLMs love to say they are not a pyramid scheme despite their pyramid shape. How many places have you worked did you fight for your company's reputation on not being a scam?
• MLMs give you things to say to people and others who are skeptical; it is implanted in their talks and programs. My friend has every defense for them in everything a skeptical person says, as if it discussed in their talks. She said her WFG friends get this from their friends, thinking they are part of a cult or scam. She says, "Not all pyramids are evil." I never said they were, but it depends on how you define evil I guess...
• All MLMs mathematical odds are so against you, you’d have more luck winning the lottery to have the success of the people you admire in the company (or the success they claim to have, often lies unless in first ever to join). This truth is in the government articles linked below.
• For the World Financial Group MLM, the average associate makes $18K per year salary. Is that what you want to make? Most don’t even reach that level and that’s poverty-level people!
• For MLMs, the people who sign up leave. You can see this in the numbers, but they often leave out certain information. It is not a sustainable business model and every single MLM is proven to collapse.
• Many MLMs change their name later and setup due to lawsuits of malpractice and not disclosing the real financial risk and loss upfront when new recruits join.
• MLMs say things like, "Everything is a hierarchy in business" or "Everything is a pyramid," as an example to justify their pyramid, but still they never are REALLY educating you on the pyramid shape because they don't want you to know that you will make so little. They need you hooked and to hook other people for more recruits, the life of the top 1%...
• MLMs do not share that if you get X person to find X people, that mathematically you’d have to go through so many cycles to make money, but the number of cycles it takes makes it impossible odds because it assumes ALL of those people who recruit won’t leave, that there is no competition (every recruit is competition), and that the whole planet wants World Financial Group Insurance (see government link below). Most people are not sales people and quit, losing money. They give you visuals, making you think it's EASY, but it's not and odds are better to win the lottery.
• World Financial Group silences people who speak out against their MLM.
• MLMs And WFG breeds more racial poverty because it uses racial bias to target people who need money in low-income communities, especially people with financial problems, like African American and Latinos, and when these minorities spend money for insurance (an arguably helpful benefit because there are better insurance plans than WFG) they are exposed to MLMs recruiting them into WFG... and a high percentage of those recruited lose money due to company turnover rate, community competition, and the pyramid's setup..
• MLMs have very high rates of attrition. It is common for over 50% of members to quit every year. This means that your downline of 120, is likely to drop to less than 60 after 12 months, unless you can recruit fast enough to replace those who quit. (https://www.finance-guy.net/streetonomic/world-financial-group-review)
• USA Government Article Fact: 99% of people in MLMs lose money. This is a FACT.

See Government Articles Below for FACTS on MLMS:

Government Article on why 99% of people in MLMs lose money and probability odds, including breakdowns of finances for very popular MLM company agents:	https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf When the Federal Trade Commission ruled in 1979 that Amway was not an illegal pyramid scheme—mainly because legitimate products were offered, the floodgates were opened and multi-level marketing programs began to proliferate. But what is often ignored is the fact that MLM programs are still pyramid schemes, modified by a variety of compensation systems that change the character of the pyramid, but not the essential pyramidal concept, motivation, and effects. The pyramid concept in MLM is seen in multiple layers of distributors, with lower level distributors contributing income to an ―upline who may have little to do with a given sale.
USA Federal Commission quoted from this website in their APA	http://skepdic.com/pyramid.html "A pyramid scheme is called a pyramid scheme because of the shape of a pyramid: a three dimensional triangle. If a pyramid were started by a human being at the top with just 10 people beneath him, and 100 beneath them, and 1000 beneath them, etc., the pyramid would involve everyone on earth in just ten layers of people with one con man on top. The human pyramid would be about 60 feet high and the bottom layer would have more than 4.5 billion people! Thus, in very short order, 10 recruiting 10 and so on would reach 10 billion, well in excess of the earth's population**.** If the entire population of earth were 5 billion and we all got involved in a pyramid scheme, the bottom layer would consist of about 90 percent of the planet, i.e., about 4.5 billion people. Thus, for 500 million people to be WINNERS, 4.5 billion must be LOSERS.
Scholarly Article on The Behavioral Economics of Multilevel Marketing....	MLMs and pyramid schemes partially overlap: Some MLM companies are pyramid schemes and some pyramid schemes consist of MLM companies. The resemblance between the two is made salient by the organizational structure: Pyramid schemes ask those individuals at the base of the pyramid to contribute to the higher levels, with the promise of a reward provided entirely from those levels below the individual. Similarly, MLMs offer the promise of profits to its consultants, but those profits stem from two streams: Commissions from direct sales and commissions from recruiting new clients. Indeed, one early article attempting to distinguish pyramid schemes from MLM models pointed out that “the investor's pecuniary benefit [of a pyramid scheme] derives primarily from his success in inducing additional persons to participate in the plan.” Most of the money made from every WFG agent is through recruits verses insurance sales. https://repository.uchastings.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1176&context=hastings_business_law_journal
A Government Article from Federal Trade Commission	https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0065-multi-level-marketing-businesses-and-pyramid-schemes
World Financial Group Tries to Silence People Speaking Out	People at WFG created instagram accounts and harassed him to get his video taken down: https://Ωwww.youtube.com/watch?v=flugTRSTZoo
Other popular MLM FACTS	ALL MLM's work for the top 1% to make hundreds of thousands and the lowest to make nearly nothing. For example, 99% of all Arbonne distributors earned an average income of $87.36 annually whereas the top .04% earned an average income of $330,516.”
	Popular MLMs with the same results of 99% losing money: Mona Vie (2008.) 99% lost Nu Skin (2008) 99% lost Herbalife (2008). Arbonne Int’l (2007) Amway/Quixtar (2001)In every case, using the analytical framework described above, the loss rate for all of these MLMs ranged from 99.12% to 99.97%, with an average of 99.6% of participants losing money. On average, one in 238 actually profited after subtracting expenses, and 996 out of 1,000 lost money – to say nothing of the time invested. The most liberal assumptions that could reasonably be used in favor of the MLMs were applied to this table of MLM loss rates. Using the more realistic assumptions discussed in prior chapters, the average loss rate for these MLMs would have averaged no better than 99.9% - with less than one in 1,000 profiting significantly. Also, I would estimate that the number of new recruits who wind up receiving the promised substantial “residual income” held out at MLM opportunity meetings is no better than one in 25,000 recruits!
Documentaries on MLMs	"Betting On Zero" Herbalife https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBmlMa6RCV4
Herbalife Product MLM (Study other MLMs to see the setup is just faulty because it's a pyramid)	https://www.cnbc.com/selling-the-american-dream/
"I Joined An MLM To Earn Extra Money -- Here's What Actually Happened"	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw2ijFNd1HI
TED Talk: "How to Spot a Pyramid Scheme"	https://www.ted.com/talks/stacie_bosley_how_to_spot_a_pyramid_scheme/transcript?language=en

“The loss rate for MLMs is at least 99%. This means that less than one in 100 MLM participants make a clear profit, and at least 99 out of 100 participants actually lose money! In fact, classic no-product pyramid schemes are ten to one hundred times as likely to result in profits as are product-based pyramid schemes, or MLMs (government article quote from above).”
“Promoters emphasize recruiting new distributors for your sales network as the real way to make money. Walk away. In a legitimate MLM program, you should be able to make money just by selling the product (government article quote from above).
My friend thinks WFG just has bad advertising; that is what they tell her inside and she believes it.

I know some of you are thinking …”that WFG is not the same! Not all MLMs are bad! We sell insurance and help people secure a financial future.”
My answer to that is it’s still bad. Why? Because you build funds for yourself and the top of the pyramid by recruiting to uneducated people who know less about finance than you when 99% of all of you fail. That means, more people in poverty lose money and I think that's pretty bad, especially now with more attention to minority communities and the Brianna Taylor trial ....we are trying to have more diversity in the workplace to support inclusion of all races to have better economic gains for minorities families and futures.

Remember, ask yourself this question: If I ONLY sold the product would I make a good enough living without recruits? If the answer is no, you should leave now.

An MLM peoples' odds of being successful are almost zero at this phase of entry into any MLM. The insurance sales is a cunning WFG tactic because it may help people stay around longer, but the business model of a pyramid is still there and it is still overall immoral and hurts minority communities. Why?
Poverty-stricken communities pay more money than they ever get out of it with an MLM. They also get their friends and family involved, a requirement for started in WFG, which means many people are affected and lose money by paying for trainings, licenses, and even the first few people YOU bring in when you start are actually commissions made for their upline person, not you.

Remember, the government fact is that 99% of people who join an MLM lose money! Facts are facts. Also, people can get better insurance policies with other companies than offered at WFG.
WFG is a VERY clever and cunning MLM by using insurance, but it is STILL AN MLM.
What MLMs want you to think:

They want you to think YOU can be one of the top successful people financially and that it is a HARD job and it is effort gives reward.
They want you to think the long and hardworking game is how you win…but the reality is that if you were not the first to join, you will always lose more money for your effort because that’s how the pyramid shape works.
Even with insurance, people at WFG cannot sustain an income only through their insurance sales. The longer you stay, the more money you bring them. When everyone recruits everyone, you create a lot of competition in the city, but even then the competition does not last because people cannot live on an unsustainable model. That means, they put more money in than they ever got it. It's a faulty business model and expectations of sales are unrealistic. Selling insurance takes a while and that's how they keep you going for longer, using that logic....
The government article linked above states, “As indicated above, one can do much better at the gaming tables in Las Vegas. And a person need not risk his or her social capital – treasured relationships with friends and family one has spent a lifetime cultivating. “
MLMs want you to think in the here and now. Just be present with life!
WFG wants people to think their company is different, like all MLMs…this company says they are helping people with life insurance policies, but the truth is that is how they can operate legally. WFG is cunning and smart, as they found the government loophole and that by selling services, the WFG MLM keeps going and the people involved think their dreams will come true, that they will achieve the success of those above them.
Another truth, WFG’s insurance commissions are lower than in other industries and keeps people in it for longer since building up clients from an insurance takes time…. The more time they hold recruits, the more successful they are at feeding the top and their uplines.
Ask someone from an MLM if they ONLY sold the product with no recruits, would they make a livable income? If the answer is no, they need to get out.

People at WFG cannot make enough money just selling ONLY the product, but through recruits. This is where your RED FLAG ALERT should go off. Remember, the government article above says, "Promoters emphasize recruiting new distributors for your sales network as the real way to make money. Walk away. In a legitimate MLM program, you should be able to make money just by selling the product."
When my friend told me she needed 10 people to watch her training to pass her exam at WFG, I went to help her. During me helping her, they switched the energy on me and tried to also recruit me. What was an innocent act of kindness on my part was no longer all that was wanted from me, but I was curious about the business and I researched and googled it more.
I got a lot of text messages from her after that to join her in conferences. After working for them for 1 year, she has lost money. She refuses to tell me how much she profited and told me she does not mind if people higher up than her, her nice upline, get paid more than her. They "do a lot of good.:
The successful people are the only ones successful. The people claiming success….well, it will never happen for them. A lot of people in their uplines lie and pretend they make more than they do, but they end up feeling ashamed they never got the riches for all of their hard work. It's a sad world we live in and since my friend cannot hear me, maybe one of you will instead.
Conclusion: Since all MLMs only make money in the top 1%, her recruiting people will never make her enough to support herself from recruits. While she may continue to stay in it making subpar insurance commissions, she is making less compared to other insurance companies, keeping her financial situation down unless she takes on more jobs to support herself for a good life. If she continues to stay, this MLM will steal all of her extra time that she could have had with her child. She instead will stay in an MLM that ultimately promotes more poverty, even though I know she is passionate about the opposite, which is helping impoverished populations that she is targeting for financial advice. She feels that in WFG she is helping those more than harming, but I would disagree. She would better to be involved in a non-MLM insurance company with higher commissions for her efforts.
I plan to add more information to this reddit as I find it.
Reddit, she is one of the purest hearted people and that is why I am trying to help her, but if I can help convince even one person to not join an MLM, then writing this was totally worth it.
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I remember an ex friend of mine asked me to hang out and it was just a presentation. Back in 2010, I didn't know about MLMs like I do now.
I remember the guy went on and on about how it would help my mom's lupus and how people with arthritis didn't take their medication as often. Remembering on it now, I recall how many lines of bs I was told about this product, similiar to how Young Living and DoTerra make false claims of curing chronic diseases. Thank god I didn't get sucked in when I was at a vulnerable place. My mom was in such pain all the time due to lupus I would have given anything to ease it a little and this asshole knew it.
Then I took a look at Wikipedia and found out MonaVie went into forclosure in 2015 and was sued by other MLM companies numerous times for stealing distributors away from their respective companies and unlawful business practices. I hope all MLM scams are finally ended. Screw all of them. And to my ex friend... Screw you too. You were a terrible person then and probably still are. I just hope that some part of you has improved in the past nine years.

Hey everyone! I have really love this subreddit and I thought I would share my MLM story that sparked my fire to defeat the Huns. (TL;DR at the bottom)
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A little bit of backstory.
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This story takes place back around 2008-2009, I was an an employee at a small town McDonalds. I was having a tough time with dealing the fact that in my small town the only prospects of employment were fast food and big box retail. At this McDonalds I met a couple of really funny guys that liked the same music as me, we formed a band and we were playing really bad garage rock. We were convinced that we were gonna be famous, after about 6-7 months of working full time at McDonalds and with this band (putting in roughly 80-90 hours a week doing both.) I realized that my only ticket out of this sun-bleached crusty butthole of a town was to go back to school and get an education. So I quit the band, this created some awkward tension at work between the three of us one of the guitarists (we'll call him J) was particularly butt hurt about the whole thing.
Key:
J- the MLM guitarist
Me- Me
C- co-worler
JCM- Juice cult man
JCL- Juice cult lady
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Now that we have that foundation let's jump into the strange juice cult stuff.
J and I hadn't talked for months aside from what was required to get the job done. One morning J rolls in and actually starts being chummy with me again, which was a huge red flag for me. All of a sudden he pulls out a couple energy drinks and starts his pitch.
J- Hey man, I have an extra energy drink if you want it.
J and I were huge energy drink addicts, we drank probably 2-3 a day (I have since then dropped the habit.)
Me- Sure man, thanks.
I took this gesture as a sign that maybe J was starting to get over me quitting the band and was trying to rekindle a friendship with me. I inspected the can, it was some energy drink I had never heard of from a brand called Monavie.
Me- Monavie? Never heard of this one, where did you get it from?
J- You can't buy it at stores, I mean you can order it but you get a pretty sweet discount if you become a distributor for it. It's this cool new business that I'm a part of, tell me what you think about it. It's all natural and has all sorts of health benefits and it is supposed to give you a ton of energy. I don't really know though I am not an expert in energy drinks or anything, so let me know if you like it.
HUGE RED FLAGS, J and I were habitual energy drink abusers as mentioned before. I thought it was really strange that he said he wasn't an expert in energy drinks. So I thanked him and drink the energy drink, which did almost nothing for me it was essentially lightly carbonated fruit juice, and went about my day.
For the rest of the day J was super nice and also roped my co-worker into trying one of his energy drinks. He ended up convincing my coworker and I into going to this presentation he was a part of for this new company he was working with. Wanting to show our support for our friend and this "cool" new business we obliged.
Later that night c and I go to the presentation at this super lavish house, the place had a bunch of newer cars outside (no Ferraris or Lambos or anything like that, but still pretty nice for this town.) We walk in and there are Monavie posters and promotional pamphlets everywhere. We are greeted by J and his girlfriend as well as what I could only assume we're his up-line whom I will refer to as JCM and JCL. C and I were super confused as to what was going on. We had never heard of an MLM up until this point and we were pretty impressed by the set up.
JCM and JCL started a presentation where they showed flashy and well produced videos of Monavie and how the juice they were selling was made from a special blend of hard to find super fruits. They then explained how the company works and that while the juice was the product their goal was to spread the word of this magical juice.
JCM and JCL started handing out tiny cups of the juice to the roughly 20 people that were crowded in their living room, the sample was comically small, roughly a half an ounce of liquid. The juice was pretty decent tasting, but surely tasted like juice you could get at a super market. They then mentioned that the price of the bottles were somewhere close to $40, yikes. Considering that the bottle was roughly 12-13 ounces that seemed pretty steep, but then they said that the cost was justified by sharing what they stated were true stories.
JCM- My uncle was dying of cancer, and all the treatments weren't working! They told him that he only had weeks to live. We heard about Movavie and the wonderful health effects it had and bought a case, we had him on an ounce of Monavie per day and a couple months later the doctors said his cancer stopped spreading. The doctors were able to remove it and now he is cancer free! It's all thanks to the healing power of Monavie!!
JCL- My grandson has ADD and pretty moderate Autism, he was having trouble in school. We gave his parents some Monavie and got him on just an ounce a day and he became more focused and his autism was less severe, all from the healing power of the super fruits.
At this point C and I were looking for the exits, we knew this sounded waaaaaaayyy too good to be true. JCM and JCL then went on to explain how the MLM worked and the requirements to be a distributor. It was pretty similar to all the MLMs that I read about on here, when you get to the top you get all sorts of wild stuff (I think the car they were promising was a black BMW or Audi or something like that.
JCM- ... and to get started all you need to do is throw events like this a couple times a month! You do need to buy a distributer package so you have all the Monavie that you need to make it happen.
I don't recall the exact price, but it was something in the ball park of $150-200 per month, and on a McDonalds salary back in 2008-2009 that wasn't gonna happen.
After the presentation J was trying to get us to signup under him so we could get started right away, C and I told him that we didn't have the money right now, but we would get back to him when we did. Needless to say we never brought it up with him again.
J tried to make it work for a few months, but ended up with a bunch of this cult juice and no one would sign up. It was my first experience with an MLM and it made me realize that all these MLMs do is prey on those looking for an opportunity and promising what they can not deliver.
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TL;DR- My former bandmate that I wasn't on the best terms with tried to get me and another co-worker to join a crazy juice cult MLM with him. Just ended up looking like a cult member and stuck with the extra cult juice at the end of everything.
This experience has led me to always be outspoken about MLMs and their harm on those who fall victim to them. Keep fighting the good fight y'all!

Kinda Long, sorry.
Couple things: Yes, I realize I spelled Alzheimer's wrong I was also near freak out and panic attack when I hastily wrote that post....
The medication I am on is not a clinical trial, it is a medication approved for a subset of the disorder I have, but not my particular subset. Insurance companies usually deny any "non-FDA approved" treatment, especially when it is this expensive, a couple people asked, its called Soliris. It is literally in the top 5 or 10 of the worlds most expensive drugs.
And those of you who thought I was being over dramatic, oh god how I wish I was.... But things have gotten better
That being said, that evening I went over to my grandparents to get their take on the situation. They have always been really good at being impartial when it came to advice between my spouse and I. Like me, my Nana was flabbergasted and confused by his knee jerk reaction to wanting to join this MLM and how hard he was pushing back on me saying no... But, they told me they also knew where he was coming from. Apparently when they were our age they went to an Amway presentation and they both felt the same way that my partner did when they left.... My grandmother said she could barely sleep the night that they went because she was so excited.. They ended up joining and losing money... She mentioned my Papa had joined some other MLM when I was a kid and had such a hard time getting them to stop sending product even after he demanded they do, that he had to get a lawyer involved to write the company a letter. She couldn't remember the name of it though. My grandma also mentioned in the 90s and early 2000's she was into pampered chef, but at that time you just ordered what you already had sold and gave it to your customer when it showed up, she also really only did it for the discount cookware.
She suggested I do some additional research ( which a lot of you did for me, so I really appreciate that) email my grandpa what I find and we come over for dinner the next night and they would talk to my spouse and I without bringing up the fact that I had come for help talking him out of it. They are great at deescalating difficult situations.
At that point I went diving with a group I dive with and got home about 10 pm... My partner and I didn't have time to talk about anything because we both went to bed. The next day, yesterday, we kind of just lounged around the house hanging out, something I think we both really needed.
So I took a lot of the links you sent me and some additional research I had done on my own and emailed them to my Papa with short explanations of everything because, quite frankly you all sent me a ton of stuff. It turns out the MLM my grandpa was involved in was MonaVie... At that point I knew if he couldn't talk my spouse out of this with just that story alone, we would be hard pressed to do it.
We went over and had dinner and after dinner my grandpa said "So, I heard you were thinking about starting a business", to which my spouse turned to me and said "well thanks" in a very annoyed way. My grandpa told him not to get upset but he wanted to talk to him about starting a business and let him know their experiences with the various MLM's they had been involved in. My grandpa explained his MonaVie experience and how it was owned by the same people. He sat down and worked out with him what he called an "MLM" tree. Told them how their current friends who did an MLM quit their jobs to pursue it full time and now are in their late 70's and still have to work because they blew through their savings trying to sell people "health pills" . They had a lot of great antidotes and honest stories of how MLM's screwed over the people around them, as well as the evidence that these owners are shady people....
In the end my partner decided, as crushed as his little heart was that this was an elaborate scam, that he probably got duped.
When we got home I asked some very specific questions that I had not thought of until you all brought it up.
Was he upset I make more money than he does currently- Short answer yes, long answer- Yes because if I get sick and can't his current job won't cover our mortgage, and med school is expensive too and he won't be working during that time. We decided rather than have a 6 month emergency savings account we will bump that up to an 24 month emergency savings account and we are going to start Sept. 1st budgeting for that.
Why does he feel that I control everything?- Short answer: Because I handle all of our accounts, and while he has access to them anytime he feels like he often doesn't know whats going where
We are going to start going over all the budgetary stuff together twice a month and make sure we have a spreadsheet with all of our passwords stored somewhere.
We also decided marriage counseling is a good idea and have emailed someone requesting an appointment, because there are obviously a lot of unresolved negative feelings going on here....
So it seems for now at least, we are out of the woods.
Thank you all for your help and suggestions. I really do appreciate it.
TL;DR: Went to my grandparents for help, armed with facts and personal stories they discussed the MLM with both of us and gently guided my partner to the conclusion this probably wasn't a good idea for us. We are also getting counseling.

This is my first post. Sorry if there are any errors.
A little back story when I was younger my father suffered from a traumatic brain injury. This left everything up to my mother leaving her with little to no social life.Anyway, my mother told me this story the other day when we were talking about MLM. I felt horrible this happened to her.
My mother was part of Moms Club. She met a great deal of other mothers and enjoyed their company as it was some sort of social interaction. One day she received an invite to come hangout at one of the women's homes. She was excited to go hangout as she had no social life since she was busy taking care of my father. She thought about how nice it will be to get out of the house and talk to another adult. My mother arrives and she starts to notice something is off. Eventually, the woman starts her presentation for Monavie ( a juice MLM). My mother said she was so mad and hurt that a "friend" would do that. When my mother was telling me this story I could still kinda see the hurt on her face and this had happened around 13 years ago.
Has anyone else heard of Monavie?