Hymen photos

Please read my whole post and then reply on it ! I am 24 year old, good looking, handsome guy, topper in school and college and currently focusing on my career. I never proposed any girl. Instead ‘I got proposals from 4 girls’ and many indirect proposals from several girls but I rejected their all proposals with respect because i have some morals, ethics and rational thinking. I believe first to focus on education, career. I don’t want to betray my parents by having love affair at the time of studies and personality development. So my point is i am ‘proud virgin’ by my choice. I believe in marriage system. I want to love only one person and stay loyal for lifetime to that person. in future my wife is going to first love for me (emotionally and physically). So why should I don’t expect same from her? I am not judging anyone. But in some youtube videos,articles they all are only getting side of non-virgins and they are imposing non-virgins on virgins. They are asking virgins to have big heart and accepts directly non-virgin, why ? If loosing virginity was their choice then its our choice to reject them. They don’t have right to judge us. I looks at this things rationally . And in my personal life, I am behaving in the same way that I expect from my future spouse (not having a past love and physical relationship with someone else). So my expectation is based on equality. I like to think rationally and keep modern approach. I am not judging anyone but yes virginity matters for me.(‘ I don’t believe in hymen and bleeding at first night etc.’) You will say ‘what about trust,love,care etc.’ so then yes! With all this things virginity equally matters a lot for me. I want to explore those things emotionally and physically first time with my future wife and expecting same from her. This is my wish, my choice. So whats wrong in this ? Who are this people to call me narrow minded ? Try to understand our point of view. Get one fictional example. If Girl is having all random relationships and at the same time one boy is struggling to achieve something in life and he stays single for that. After he became well settled he wants same virgin wife as he is. And after all random casual relationships now that girl wants serious,caring,well settled guy. Whats now ? They both deserve good partner. But no one can impose that girl on that boy. Its their choice. Every relationship should start with honesty and truth. Each and everyone has right to choose their life partner according to their preferences and values. Past matters ! What is my present is because of my past. Today i am enjoying success cause I struggled lot in past. So I respect everyone. I am not going to judge anyone. But try to understand virgin’s point of view. their is no one who can talk about virgin like us who stays virgin by choice until marriage, And expect same from future partner. Each and everyone just normalising non-virginity and imposing non virgins on virgins in the name of modernism,21st century and bla bla… And sorry if I hurt someone. If someone suggests me this illogical suggestion that ‘past is past’ and focus on present for marrying non virgin in the name of love so I have many doubts. some querys. after knowing the fact that she is not virgin what if i started imagining continuesly her with another guy and feeling depressed, still you force me to marry her? After knowing the fact that i am not first for her still you force me to marry her? If i can’t digest that fact and not seeing myself happy with that girl still you will impose that non virgin on me ? Rethink ! what about if she is medically ok or not (std)? What if her ex had some photos of unethical activities and blackmail us after marriage and spoiled our married life? Or make fun,troll or teasing? what if she never forget her past ? What if she compares? What if i found that born baby is not mine ? And in todays world considering gossiping,social pressure ..divorce is punishment for whole family although mistakes was done by only one partner. I just want to be virgin for my future wife and expecting same from her and want each other to be loyal for life time ! What is wrong in this ? If i am perfect, I deserve perfect. Even if we agree on other points and we like each other then i will be ready to marry rape victim or person who had faced something wrong in past because in this case it was not that person’s mistake. Even i will give emotional support to her and stand for her. After our marriage if any disaster comes newly then i am ready to stand with her and fight for her but i am not ready to handle problems related to her past relationship which she did by her choice. Why should i take unnecessary risk. I want to be in monogamous relationship. I am the only one for her in whole life ,she is the only one for me in whole life for the “first and last time.” How beautiful feeling is this ! But it is very disgusting that everyone is avoiding our point of view, just trying to impose directly non virgins on virgin and trying to make atmosphere where non virgin can feel comfortable and easily ask to virgin that have big heart and accept us. No one trying to put our point of view and side. You may express your opinion! I am waiting for response. This all are my humble queries. Anyone can reply on it. You may express your opinion!

Hi, I don't know if I still have a hymen. looking at other photos in this app it looks like I have hymenal tags. around the vulva, but not all around, below where you pee, there is a fleshy tissue, with growths, in the middle there is a large space where two fingers can be inserted, you can see the vaginal canal. How is this possible if I've never had sex? What type of hymen do I have? they look like growths that come out around the vulva, but in the middle there is a giant hole where the vaginal canal can be clearly seen

Intact hymen or not
Hi, I don't know if I still have a hymen. looking at other photos in this app it looks like I have hymenal tags. around the vulva, but not all around, below where you pee, there is a fleshy tissue, with growths, in the middle there is a large space where two fingers can be inserted, you can see the vaginal canal. How is this possible if I've never had sex? What type of hymen do I have? they look like growths that come out around the vulva, but in the middle there is a giant hole where the vaginal canal can be clearly seen

Hi, I don't know if I still have a hymen. looking at other photos in this app it looks like I have hymenal tags. around the vulva, but not all around, below where you pee, there is a fleshy tissue, with growths, in the middle there is a large space where two fingers can be inserted, you can see the vaginal canal. How is this possible if I've never had sex? What type of hymen do I have? they look like growths that come out around the vulva, but in the middle there is a giant hole where the vaginal canal can be clearly seen

Growing up I was really inactive and quite overweight, people including my family members would often bully me for this. So at the age of 8 my mother signed me for a fitness club for obese kids. I hated every second of it until they added cycling to the fitness program. My mother gave me my brother’s bike and from that day on cycling was the only thing I would do during my free time. I even lost lots of weight and life was getting better! Until my hymen tore from cycling so much. Being an 8 year old girl I had no idea what just happened to my body all I remember was crying to my mum about how much it hurt. Clearly my mother didn’t understand the female body all that much either because she thought the hymen could only tear due to s#x. I still remember the horror and disappointment on my mums face when she realised what happened to me. The following months after that was literally hell, after she beat the living hell out of me with a spatula she decided to take a photo of my private area to show my sister the disappointment I am she also threatened to kill me so I packed my bag to leave and after she caught she called me a wh#re and said I wanted to get f#cked by the men outside , she would also constantly threaten to kick me out the house so I could become a victim to the pedos on the street because once again according to her I “wanted it” keep in mind I WAS 8. Though I would constantly try to convince her I didn’t do anything wrong she never believed me, so eventually she managed to gaslight me into believing that she was right, that I did something wrong and that I was a disgrace. Although now I understand that what happened to me isn’t bad at all and my mum pretends none of this ever happened I still view myself as a disappointment knowing that she will never love me like how she used to ever again. This is the first time I’ve spoken about this to anyone so thanks for reading

So I had a septate hymen before it broke, and have always had really thick vaginal tissue. For years, I've wondered why I have these large fleshy things all around my vaginal opening (so thick they pretty much cover it, though my vagina can be penetrated as normal).
Doing more research, I think it may be hymenal tags, but from photos and diagrams I've seen of them, mine look larger and like there's more than just one or two?
I've been going to the gynecologist regularly for four years, but no one has ever brought it up or mentioned it, so I guess I assumed it was normal/not anything to worry about. But I think it may be the issue with why I have discomfort during sex, even with lube.
Does this seem like hymenal tags, or something different?

I have been dating my boyfriend 18M for almost 9 months now, but unfortunately my parents don’t know he exists and we only meet up when I am at a friends house or when we go on a double date with another couple. He is well aware of my situation and understands. His family knows about us and love me, but mine cannot know due to how extensive with some of the things they do. My mom found out about one of my relationships at one point, would check my phone constantly to make sure I wasn’t doing anything bad, she would look through all my photos and texts, which made me uncomfortable because I didn’t want her reading, my private conversations, even if they weren’t bad. Now I do understand her doing it out of safety, but she never communicated why she wanted to do that and the way she went about it made me feel horrible. One of the worst thing she did, though, genuinely still scares me to this day. when she thought me and my ex, were having sex (we were not), she threatened to go get me checked to see if my hymen was still intact. That ex, was a woman, so, I fear even more, that she would actually do it knowing my boyfriend is a man. I also fear she would force me to go on birth control, which, based on the side effects I don’t want to do. this is a hard situation, because my mom is a little bit crazy, and unfortunately I don’t know what she would do. Although I’m 18 now, I still live in her house and I have 5 more months to go before I can graduate and hopefully leave, should I just stick it out?

21F, not sexually active - Recently I noticed that the inside of my vagina looks really different than what I see online. I don't think it used to look that way before, not sure if it's related to me being on Trilomilli or spironolactone? But basically the hymenal area looks really thick and white, and then the inside is also completely white. It doesn't feel itchy or anything, it just looks really weird. I'm quite nervous about it because I feel like something is wrong with me but I can't seem to find any clues based on a google search. I don't think it's a yeast infection because again, no itching and no weird discharge, literally nothing has changed except the hymen is all swollen and ridged and the inside is all white. Not sure how to include photos on this sub if someone could lmk! Please, any advice is appreciated 🙏🏼 i will go to the gyn eventually but i really want some peace of mind in the mean time so anything helps 🥹

Je suis en manque d'inspiration pour un dauphin qui a tout et qui ne veut rien...
Mi 70, n'a plus son aquarium dans le fleuve, est plus à l'étape de vider l'aquarium que de le remplir.
Veuf depuis (trop) longtemps. Maman est morte dans un accident de filet à pêche aux crevettes
Ancien marin, pêcheur, plongeur.
Amateur de télé, blouptube, pas si nul en informatique mais pas un geek.
Il habite loin, on se voit pas à Noël. D'où l'idée d'envoyer un cadeau, j'haïs rajouter du plastique dans le fleuve. Surtout qu' il vote parti bleu quand il veut pas voter pour les gens en place, même s'il conduit un maudit gros panier d'épicerie ( son cadeau de retraite).
Il cuisine mais mange pas assez de crevettes, a des amis dans la trentaine, dépanne ma sœur sur la grève, elle a de jeunes dauphins, j'ai de grands dauphins qui ne se lavent plus. Il ne boit pas d'eau salée.
J'attends vos suggestions, sinon ça va finir en photos des enfants dauphins et carte cadeau Tim Poisson. Ou juste des photos pis une belle carte, ce serait pas plus mal.
Hymen!

So I never been gyno so I’m currently trying to set up an appt now.
I have a load of issues and I don’t know if my over reacting or is there’s something actually wrong. I spent hours in the internet and can’t find anything that matches what I’m going through.

1. I can only fit one finger in my vagina. I don’t have a hymen I looked at a lot of photos and it doesn’t match up what is going on down there. I would push my finger around to see if I can stretch it so I can fit two and no luck just a ton of uncomfort
   
2. My vaginal canal is curved like a C towards my stoumch and I can feel my pelvic bone.
   
3. I know everyone vagina is different but I have like extra flaps? Like down the middle towards my vaginal opening. It’s small but noticeable.
   

Idk if I just have a f’d up area and idk if it could be fixed with surgery. I can’t find anyone with the same problem or any type of diagnosis.
If anyone knows anything or has similar issues please help and give me suggestions.

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Hey, thanks in advance to whoever decides to give me their attention on a problem I'm having. I'm a girl, I'm 19 years old. Excuse my English as it's not my first language . I've been with my boyfriend for 5 years (yes, since I was 14), we love each other to the moon and back, have a mature and healthy relationship. We decided to make love this year. Very excited, we prepared all the means of safety and tried vaginal penetration. Trying it, at that moment I felt like it couldn't go in, like there was a wall there, and a huge pain when I kept trying. We failed to have sex. I read on the net possible causes for this pain and found medical causes or vaginismus . I decided shortly to schedule a gynecological consultation. The doctor looked at the external appearance and said that there was no penetration and the hymen was intact, he said that everything looked normal, but he did not want to put the vaginal probe in there or look with his fingers inside, because I am a virgin, so he decided to do a non-invasive abdominal ultrasound, ( i think the method chosen during pregnancy, where you get those photos ), where he observed the ovaries, cervix, etc. He said everything looks normal. He told me to try to have sex again, and that it would hurt the first time because I have a small body overall, I'm small and skinny. ( i am still though a little curvy). I decided to try to put a finger in there, and with pain I succeeded, but the area was painful and stinging. I tried two fingers and failed , the same horrible pain as if the hole was too small and inflamed and I was sticking my finger into a huge wound. Now I wonder, surely all medical causes are excluded if I did that ultrasound in the lower area and he didn't found anything? Or are there some abnormalities that he would only see if he inserted his finger or that probe into my vagina? What to do? Should I ask him to see me internally? Should I get vaginal dilators and try to enlarge it myself? It's important to me because my boyfriend and I have been in a healthy relationship for many years, we love and respect each other. He waits for me as long as it takes, but I want to solve this problem because I also need a sexual relationship with him. Thank you very much!

A little background :
I had similar issues but I could only fit 1 finger and felt very anxious trying more. I also want to mention that I felt scared to tell anyone so I was not officially diagnosed but did a lot of research on what it may be and I also had a septate hymen for a while which was then torn by a nurse when I got a tampon stuck and she was removing it ( horrible experience which did mentally affect me as it really hurt and probably made this worse. She was of course a stranger to me too and it was my first experience with anyone near that area ). I also did not use any kind of dilators or other treatment methods, we went straight in to try PIV because it was what i was most worried about and wanted to get over and done with. Me and this partner got comfortable speaking about these issues and what they meant for us first. We worked through it together. I did the research to really understand what was going on with me and anything new I found that may help, I would then explain to him. That would help us both as I learn more which makes me feel better as there's a real explanation and understanding of this topic somewhere out there and it's not as uncommon as it's made out to be, and it would help him as he could understand what my body was actually doing and understand why patience and reassurance is important. This helped me feel less anxious about it and obviously made it a more comfortable and 'normal' topic between us.
A Summary of Our Journey :
When we initially began trying, the first time we got nowhere. I was really anxious as I didn't have much experience of relationships or anything else sexual either, we tried alcohol and while it helped relax my mind it still did not work and rather than interpreting that as failure we took it as a first step and a learning point. Next time, I drank a bit but for enjoyment rather than to make the situation easier and as we were more comfortable with each other in that setting and had that first experience beforehand, it felt more natural. We made a very small bit of progress and it did hurt a lot. The next time around we managed to make more progress but again with that burning feeling and at one point I built up the courage to let him just give me a pre-warning and thrust in as far as he could as it would take a little time for me to tense up anyway once he did. That didn't necessarily help our progress overall but he managed to get quite far in - it was nice to just know it is possible though I will say it tore my hymen a little ( didn't hurt at all in the moment, I just noticed the bleeding after and made sure to keep it clean so nothing to be scared about at all ). The following time, we actually made no progress as I really wasn't feeling good about it so we just left it and then finally, the time after this we fully succeeded.
Onto the HOW :
- These were planned sessions which allowed me to mentally prepare myself before we saw each other and every time we did see each other for this, we made sure to spend an hour or so just talking, cuddling, listening to music etc.. just relaxing
- We used a heavy amount of lube just to be sure it wouldn't hurt as much which I definitely think helped especially at the start when it was most difficult
- If I did not feel like doing it, there would be no negative reaction from him and we would simply just continue talking and spending time together without doing so/until I felt comfortable to - it won't always be successful
- Every time we made progress he would reassure me and praise me for trying and for slowly overcoming this.
- We would often speak while we tried so I knew what he was doing and he knew how I felt, lots of communication and if I felt as though I was tensing ( often because of the pain too ) I would let him know he would stop going further and I would take a moment to just look at the ceiling and focus on my breathing and slowly relax my body ( probably worth mentioning that when we did try he would go very very slow and I would communicate everything I was feeling. Educating him on the topic also really helped as he understood better and it showed a willingness to work through it TOGETHER
- To help me understand our progress, he would also often take photos to show me what is happening on his end as obviously in missionary I cannot see anything and this would also make me feel better and less anxious as even small progress is progress. He would also praise me on this and give me small updates on how far in he was ( the same as last time, further than last time, just the tip etc )
- We mainly attempted missionary which may have been a mistake on our part as a lot of others with vaginismus have actually said this is painful for them and it was for more but I did not discover this until recently. I couldn't do cowgirl as I was tensed up while lowering myself and I was too insecure for us to try anything like doggy. Eventually I found another persons story who said that actually doggy and prone bone worked for them best and we tried it and that was in fact the 2 positions that we succeeded with.
- I also had to be really brave on my end and sometimes even fight a little through the discomfort because unfortunately it won't go away quickly and I had to learn that when I do get this feeling that I don't need to panic and tense up, and slowly I did get better at this. However, if I at any point wanted him to stop and take it out he would never hesitate or have a negative reaction to this and would listen - again helped a lot as I felt comfortable knowing that I could stop at any point and it was never a problem.
- We were also sensitive with our language - no calling it 'broken' or 'weird' or anything along those lines and just accepting that it will take a little longer than we maybe expected but no negativity at all about the topic expressed and when I was feeling negative or upset or hopeless about it while alone or with him I would always express this concern to which he then responded to by reassuring me and making me feel loved and accepted and made sure I don't worry about it and made sure I knew he was happy to stay for the process and that he wouldn't leave me due to it being 'difficult' or taking a while as I do overthink a lot.
Extra Information, How it Feels Now, Positions etc :
I don't know how severe my case of vaginismus was as we managed to succeed over not too many sessions and overall they were spread over a few months but I will say that sitting up on reddit or google at night looking at other peoples success story's and what helped them or reading up on what other people's situations are like really put my mind at ease - knowing you aren't alone and that there is a way to overcome this and having such a patient and supportive partner really did help. Though sex is still quite painful and the initial insertion is always uncomfortable, we haven't done it much yet and we are still getting used to it so I'm sure that with time it will feel better. Again, worth mentioning that my hymen has been torn a couple times after we succeeded too as my body is still getting used to him but like I said previously it is never painful in the moment, it just bleeds a little after and is a bit sensitive but nothing to be scared of at all. It is also probably worth mentioning that probably most of the time we tried I also struggled with arousal. Physically, my body reacted how it should do most of the time and the lubrication was there but I was mentally obviously in my own bubble a bit stressed and focused more on breathing and making sure i'm relaxed. I still struggle with this, but that's another reason to use lube. It allows you to attempt sex and puts less pressure on you having to be aroused as the lube makes it easier for your body and your mind can focus on the more important obstacle - your pelvic muscles. I knew this person as a friend for about a year and a half and this was our first sexual experience with each other ( and also just our firsts in general ). Really getting comfortable with each other even just sleeping, talking, getting to know each other, cuddling all helped as you naturally get more relaxed being yourself around them and definitely don't let any other stresses bother you while you try - some people feel insecure about how their body looks or how they smell/taste etc DON'T let that get to you as its extra stress that you may build up in that area. There are also many factors that can cause and affect your vaginismus some being past trauma, general stress in life that you've been holding onto, anxiety about painful sex ( this was one for me and made me really tense up ever since that first time i felt pain when we tried ) so depending on what your cause is, there may be a different way to approach it.
A little more about positions. When we tried missionary it was really painful no matter how far or shallow he was but I thought this may be normal in my situation so we stayed at missionary as it was the position I felt most comfortable in mentally as I was facing him but this obviously allowed me to wrap my legs around him or push them against him, tensing more. When we tried doggy it was okay but still painful so I naturally arched less as like a reaction to the pain but this did not make it better so I had to again, relax myself and get back into position and it did allow him to go much further and felt a bit weird at first and then he hit my cervix which was scary and obviously a new feeling ( which I personally did not enjoy ) but it was nice that it actually worked, he managed to get his full length in. We then tried prone bone ( also known as speed bump ) which was the best for us as your bum acts as a bit of a cushion and doesn't allow him to go too far ( so no hitting the cervix ) but still allows him to go deep. We started with very slow thrusts as the more he sped up the more i tensed but we do slowly increase speed and if it becomes painful we slow back down. Over just a few tries, this became a much more comfortable position but as I did say it tore my hymen a bit ( but this would be different for everyone ).
If you have any questions I'll be more than happy to answer but I really hope this helps someone.

**Because I was recently called out by a particular poster who's quote was:

Tamponica has a major chip on his/her shoulder about BDI. I honestly don’t know why they stick around except to troll. Every “one off” incident BDI has to suspect Burke is easily dismissed but the only thing they have for JDI is some sweater fibers, which could have any number of explanations.

and

Between the people in that family, the cumulative number of odd or suspicious details fall primarily on Patsy or Burke. Hardly anyone has much to say about John

Addressing the sweater fibers:
From the autopsy:
"During the vaginal examination, small dark colored fibers were found on JonBenet’s external labia. A faint area of purple discoloration was noted on the right labia major. Vascular congestion was found along the inner membrane of the vaginal vault, and red water fluid, appearing to be blood, was present. The hymeneal opening had a mild abrasion, and the hymen appeared to have been torn. Dr. Meyer noted that the trauma to JonBenet’s vaginal area was consistent with digital, rather than penile penetration. He was not able to determine if there had been previous trauma to the vaginal area. Dr. Meyer stated that it appeared that JonBenet’s pubic area may have been cleaned, or at least wiped by someone using a towel or piece of clothing. Small dark blue fibers, consistent with a cotton towel, were recovered from the vaginal area."
From police interviews:
MR. LEVIN: Mr. Ramsey, it is our belief based on forensic evidence that there are hairs that are associated, that the source is the collared black shirt that you sent us that are found in your daughter's underpants, and I wondered if you --
JOHN RAMSEY: Bullshit. I don't believe that. I don't buy it. If you are trying to disgrace my relationship with my daughter --
MR. LEVIN: Mr. Ramsey, I am not trying to disgrace --
J. RAMSEY: Well, I don't believe it. I think you are. That's disgusting.
MR. LEVIN (questioning Patsy): I understand your position. In addition to those questions, there are some others that I would like you to think about whether or not we can have Mrs. Ramsey perhaps in the future answer. I understand you are advising her not to today, and those are there are black fibers that, according to our testing that was conducted, that match one of the two shirts that was provided to us by the Ramseys, black shirt. Those are located in the underpants of JonBenet Ramsey, were found in her crotch area, and I believe those are two other areas that we have intended to ask Mrs. Ramsey about if she could help us in explaining their presence in those locations. (Patsy refuses to answer the question.)
The sweater had never been laundered and the underpants were a size 12 and had presumably been taken from straight out of the package.
Addressing that supposedly no one has anything to say about John who I agree seems to have fallen under the radar. People seem very, very hesitant to point the finger at him.
A. How he carried her was part of it.
Q. And describe that.
A. Her head above his head, so he didn't see her head, her face.
Q. Can you demonstrate how he was holding her?
A. (indicating)
Q. So you kind of have your hands together out in front of you, and he kind of had her in a bear hug, is that it, for a lack of any better description? If you were going to go up and hug somebody, that's the way he had his arms around her?
A. No.
Q. How would you describe - I'm trying to describe for the record.
A. Arms - he had his arms around her upper legs. He carried her kind of up and away from his body.
Q. Just so I can get a proper positioning of her body vis-a-vis his, would her navel have been around his face area the way he was carrying her?
A. I'm more focused on her head.
Q. How far above his head was her head?
A. Above.
Q. How far above?
A. Above.
Q. Were her shoulders above his head?
A. I don't remember.
Q. And so I understood from your report he was carrying her in a fashion where she was facing him.
A. Correct.
Q. And to you, that was most unusual?
A. Yes.
Q. And tell me why.
A.It was unusual that she was - it was clear she was dead. It was unusual that, for me, for a father to carry his child that way.
Snipped from Arndt's police report:
"John Ramsey sat down next to JonBenet, placed an arm around her body, and made sounds as though he was crying. I did not notice any tears.", 1997 (She goes on to note that John stopped hugging his daughter after 5 to 10 seconds.)
ARNDT: “John actually killed his daughter, but Patsy was involved in presenting the murder as something other than a murder.”
[...]
Linda Arndt: The politics involved people in supervisory positions able to see black and white and not able to see anything that wasn't tangible. And if a person's opinion on the investigative team was in the minority, that opinion was dismissed.
T.H. Does that include your opinions?
L.A. It included mine, all of the Department of Social Services, including some other people.
[...]
T.H. And what opinions are you referring to that were material to the investigation?
L.A. Incest. Naming the Ramseys as suspects.
T.H. This is incest between John Ramsey and JonBenet?
L.A. Yes (Linda Arndt was an experienced sex crimes investigator.)
Quote from an Access Graphics Manager:
Jane - [...] because of my background in being a survivor of childhood sexual abuse I recognized there was some dysfunctional behavior going on that was familiar and disturbing. It started out that I worked for him and was disturbed be the family. I remember going into his office and he was one of the persons that was very hard to read. I remember leaving his office I would feel physically ill.
Mame: I remember you telling me that the other day and asked if he ever hit on you and you said absolutely not.
Jane - It was just a feeling about the energy of that person and I talked to other women about him and some who had backgrounds of abuse got the same reaction.
Mame - Did you say to yourself "this guys abusing his kids" or was it more just a sense of bad vibes
Jane - I wouldn't have known it at that time, but my instincts told me there was something not right there. and at the time JonBenet was two or three years old.
Mame - and you had limited exposure to her
Jane - yes limited exposure to her and to John but I can say I always felt uncomfortable and there is something it's just ....about him that gave me the creeps.
LINDA WILCOX: One thing I thought was really odd, when I first worked there. Their oldest daughter, Beth, had died before I started working there. I've had a lot of death in my family, lots of family members have died, most of them prematurely. So, in the back of my photo albums, I tend to have like a collage of whoever it was, like my father, for example. Well, he had this frame with the different holes for the different sized pictures, like a collage frame. He had this collage frame with pictures of Beth in them. From when she was a little kid, when she was a cheerleader, like that, which in and of itself is not odd at all especially with someone who has died. Except that he kept it in his bathroom. It wasn't even hung up at first. It stayed between, (some talking here that I can't understand - except she says, no let me go on, this is significant). He had one of those big sunken tubs and a separate shower and it sat between the tub and the wall. And then when the house flooded, which I'll tell you about later, it was right before the tour, like a week before the tour, the house flooded over Thanksgiving break which was a problem with a window and a faucet - it ran the whole time and flooded the house. Fortunately, it skipped that picture. But, at that time, it went on the wall, a few feet up and over behind the door but it stayed in his bathroom. It just, that always struck me as being kind of weird. Who keeps a picture of their dead kid in the bathroom?
Van Derbur consulted by police By Jim Kirksey Denver Post Staff Writer
Feb. 27 - Marilyn Van Derbur Atler, beauty queen, a victim of and a nationally recognized expert on incest, has offered her insights to the Boulder police in the investigation of the sexual abuse and slaying of JonBenet Ramsey.
Van Derbur Atler said Wednesday that she met with Boulder police twice, once three weeks ago and again last week.
"They asked the same questions you would ask, about my personal experience, since our families (the Van Derburs and the Ramseys) are similar." She didn't ask police anything specific about the Ramseys and they didn't volunteer anything, she said.
"I'm a resource," said Miss America 1958. "I'm in touch with more survivors than anyone else in the United States. I've spoken in 161 cities. I have people tell me stories they've never told anyone. We are learning a lot (about incest)."
Police spokesman Kelvin McNeill said Van Derbur Atler was able to help police in areas of the investigation. "She was asked to provide us with insight on the case because she was a noted expert on several areas of interest to us," McNeil said.
In research on survivors, Van Derbur Atler said she found that 68 percent of victims were violated by fathers or stepfathers. The former beauty queen told in 1991 of incest with her father, socialite Francis Van Derbur. The average age of the victim for the first incident is 6.
People have a stereotyped image about incest; that it's only a problem in socially unacceptable families, poor families or chaotic families, she said. But, sometimes, those who appear to be the nicest people commit incest, and there is some resistance to accepting that.
"We fight against seeing the dark side," Van Derbur Atler said. "My father was just so charming. This happens in the nicest homes." When people who talk to her about the Ramseys say, "It couldn't have happened in this family, in a family so beautiful," she is disheartened about the impact of her work in the last decade.
From Steve Thomas book:
What interested me as an investigator were the totally opposite reactions that John Ramsey showed to the deaths of his eldest and youngest daughters. When Beth died, in an accident , he was inconsolable, and relatives spoke of how he could be heard late at night almost howling in grief. Years later her presence was still large in his life. Pictures of her filled a desk drawer, her name was on his plane. But when JonBenét was murdered, we saw little open grief.
Lawrence Schiller's book:
He'd written a poem to her (Beth) called "Daddy's Little Girl" that he kept on his dresser where he put his watch and loose change every night. Right where he could see it every day. Twice a day, really.
I remember some of the poem. It was a "Your First Steps" kind of thing. He wrote, "And the best thing of the day is to look after daddy's little girl . . ." and "You are growing older with woman looks that are now clear."
Editing OP to add another detail:
Patsy: I recall it [John's flashlight] was in like one of those junk drawers there in the bar area.
Police: Okay. And I wanted to flip back to photo 380, right there.
Patsy: Right, yeah, one of those drawers.
Police: One of the drawers that's depicted in 380?
Patsy: Yeah.
Police: Do you remember which drawer?
Police: Well, I, I most recently remember it being, you know, right in this drawer.
Police: The drawer that is open?
Patsy: That's open there, yeah.
Police: And that's the wet bar that's by the spiral staircase, right?
Patsy: Right.
Police: Okay. Okay. And now looking at photo 380, you don't see a flashlight in there, right?
Patsy: Correct.
DR PHIL: I think your dad had said he used the flashlight that night to put you to bed, and then you snuck downstairs to play?
BURKE: Yeah, I had some toy that I wanted to put together. I remember being downstairs after everyone was kinda in bed, and wanting to get this thing out.

When I started getting my period, my mum wanted me to try using tampons every month. I couldn’t get them in at all, as it always felt like I was hitting a soft wall. I have just taken photos of my hymen and I strongly believe it is microperforate, hence the difficulty with penetration. One day, I got my period just before a dance competition. I couldn’t insert a tampon, so my my mum said that she would do it. She said that she felt a lot of resistance, looking back on it, which surprised her, and she didn’t want to be too forceful. As she was inserting them, I said “oww” and she growled at me and said “stop it! It doesn’t hurt!”. She seemed frustrated and embarrassed. Throughout the day I felt embarrassed, saddened and withdrawn and physically uncomfortable as I could feel the tampon in me and didn’t want to perform. I was relieved when another parent offered my mum another solution for dance competitions and I went on to perform.