Moms who suck poems

I'm not sure who to talk to about this. The people in my life think I'm overreacting and should ignore it, and it's ruining my relationship by bringing it up to my partner. I'm aware that I need to get therapy, but in the meantime I'm posting on Reddit and asking for advice.
I'm 25 and I've been in a couple relationships before, but I've never experienced RJ until now.
I've been dating my boyfriend for two years. We never argue or fight, except about this situation. Shortly after we started dating, I noticed a random girl would watch my Instagram stories daily. When I clicked on her account, it showed that I was blocked (so she thinks I don't know she's looking at my story, but it still shows up for some reason). Naturally I was suspicious and asked my boyfriend if he knew her. He said no. The stalking continued, so I asked him again. This time, he admitted it was a girl he used to talk to. It bothered me, but I tried to move on. However, she kept stalking me online and blocking me afterward, so I couldn't ever block her back. Then it escalated to her friends and mom checking my profile. I asked my boyfriend again if their relationship was more serious, and he finally admitted they had a serious relationship. His lying upset me, but he said she was unstable, and he wanted to avoid bringing her up.
It's been two years, and she hasn't given up. I've gone private on all my accounts, but I still get about 20 fake profiles consistently trying to access my pages, and the same fake accounts with 0 followers try to follow my boyfriend too. Even after deleting social media, I still have obsessive thoughts. I can't stand that someone from his past is trying to get a reaction out of me, and it's working.
I constantly feel resentment building until I cause yet another fight with my boyfriend about it. Neither of us wants to confront her because we feel that's what she wants. I've never engaged with her, but this situation is constantly on my mind, and I don't know how to move on. Knowing his ex is obsessed with him and our relationship has caused me to spiral into toxic RJ thinking.
I constantly wonder about their relationship and what memories they shared to make her harass his new girlfriend years later. I wonder how great their relationship was for her to never move on. And I’m jealous of that because OUR relationship has been affected because of her. I feel like my boyfriend is sick of me and this topic, and I don't blame him. Who wants to constantly be reminded of their ex?
It sucks that someone from his past is trying to insert herself into our relationship, and I guess my self-esteem is so low that it’s working. I hate her for how she's gotten into my head, and I wonder what our relationship would be like if none of this had ever happened. I know it's super irrational, but I resent him for ever loving someone who could cause me this much pain.

Part 1: family My whole family treats me horribly, especially my mom and sister, and except for my dad, who I don’t leave with, and only see every other weekend. My stepdad just ignores me, and never even tried to have a relationship with me, as I “already have a dad”. My brother is ok, and I know that he’s also not a fan of my mother. But he’s a dick sometimes, like all siblings. My 2 stepbrothers cut my stepdad off (don’t blame them) but I don’t know the details of what went down. I’m so sick and tired of living in this house, and I plan to move out as soon as I can. I wish I could move in with my dad, but I’m not sure it’s possible, because he does shift work. He also lives in a small town, with literally nothing in it. The high school that I would go to if I lived there also kinda sucks, and I really want a good education (I’ll get more into this later). I don’t want to cut my mom off when I turn 18, but I just might. I also am not sure how I’d pay for school, without some of her help. I’m in grade 9 now, so I have to wait at least 3 years and a bit until I can leave this house.

My husband and I are 28, and we grew up n Florida. In fact, when we were 15, our first real date was when my mom helped me get tickets to a Miami heat game (it was a huge deal at the time because the heat just got Lebron James who was the best player in the league, if not he was #2 right behind Kobe Bryant)
So anyway 13 years later he’s my husband and we have 3 kids. Our oldest is 8 and LOVES Michael Jordan. We are originally from Florida and are heat fans, so they each have a different idea of who was the best player of all time.
It’s so cute when they debate. They both get so passionate about their side. “But dad, Jordan won the championship and never lost, all in a row”
And then husband will say something like
“They all sucked back then who else was going to win do you even know who else played back then?”
Or one time “dad, Jordan never lost in the finals”
“Has Jordan ever JUMPED OVER A GUY?? Lebron was literally jumping OVER people and dunking on them ME AND YOUR MOTHER WERE THERE I SAW IT YOU WEREN'T EVEN ALIVE”
So sometimes I’ll just casually mention “wow, lebron is still that good? That’s crazy he might be the best there ever was”
And then our son “right behind Michel Jordan”
And then husband “EXCUSE ME WHEN JORDAN was this old he was in Washington barely able to run across the court Jordan was never this nice at this age”
And they’ll just go at at, sometimes they’ll even turn on the Xbox and have the 2010 Miami heat play the 90s bulls with no controllers connected so the computer plays as both teams 😂😂😂

Check post history since this is not my first time posting about my mom.
Not much has changed between my mom and I since the last time I posted. There was a death in my family last fall and I spoke on the phone with her regarding some planning of the funeral. I saw her at the funeral but I purposefully didn't interact with her outside of a hello and goodbye hug. All that to say there's been no addressing of her outburst around Labor Day last year or the test message I sent afterwards.
I recently got engaged and I'm so insanely happy I get to spend the rest of my life with my best friend. It's felt so good to be able to share that happiness with so many of my friends and family, but it's weird to not be able to experience this phase of life with my mom by my side . I don't even know why it makes me sad because honestly she's not even the type of person who could be fully happy for me. I just wish she was, but I'm slowly excepting that this is the way things are. I feel like it's instinct to want to call your mom to share your engagement news, but I didn't given how things have been and she found out like the rest of my extended family in a group chat (which everyone but her responded to, although she liked my engagement post on fb). I called my cousins, my sister and my dad to let them know individually since we're close like that. I call them and they call me on a weekly basis just to talk and see how life is going. My mom never calls me, even when we were close. It was always on me to initiate contact.
In other news maintaining a relationship with my nephews independent of my mom has been going well! My oldest nephew's school came to my city for a field trip and he asked if I could chaperon and we got to spend the whole day together! A few weeks back I drove down to go to my middle nephew's birthday party that my sister organized (my mom was weirdly not present even though other family was) and in August I'll be going down for my youngest nephew's birthday. Going through my sister to setup time with the boys has been going great.
Anyway, I'm just rambling at this point. I don't regret holding up my boundaries and keeping my distance from her since she proves time and time again she won't get help to changes her toxic behaviors. I guess it just sucks it has to be this way. Thanks for listening to my rant :)

i know that the stereotype of art school students is that they’re rich and privileged, but neither of my parents went to college and did not have an understanding about what i was getting myself into. i worked all through school and paid all of my bills myself, barely made any art for myself and only focused on assignments and just trying to survive. i made the decision to go to art school when I was 17, because I felt like art was the only thing i could do. but now all my love for it has been sucked out of me and I realized I hate doing art for other people. i hate that I was encouraged to turn a life long hobby into a career. over half of my tuition was covered by scholarships and grants, but I still owe a little less than $60k for a subpar education and spending over half of class time working silently because the professors didn’t put in effort outside of giving us projects they’ve reused for decades. i just wish I could go back and tell myself to not do it. on top of this, my mom royally screwed me over by putting $30k of private loans on a 5 YEAR PAYMENT PLAN without telling me until I graduated. yes i have since then refinanced. she also just tells me to get over it when I rant about how this all makes me feel and that I should be happy with the job I have. (non art related) this has all made me realize i put all my faith in someone to help steer me down the right path who never really cared in the first place. i just feel so lost and without direction in life, and so so different from any of my peers. most of them didn’t even have a job in school, and all of my free time went towards working. I just wish i could find someone that understands because ive never felt more alone.

I apologize in advance for the length of this thread, but by far this is the user that wrote the most comments in the video of our song. At first, he suggested Scepter and Reign, but he debunked this lead by saying: "Scepter and Reign can be crossed off. I have been corresponding with the lady whose name is mentioned in the legal document, Naomi (first name used with her permission, and only her first name) since Thursday. She was legitimately shocked her name was on the document because in all these years NOBODY ever contacted her regarding it. She thinks they may have realized how much money it would cost and probably withdrew. She knew both bands fairly well, scale of 1-10 she answered "6.5 maybe 7'ish". She designed 1 "logo" for each band that was literally just a sketch she made with their band names on them she could print out in the Xerox store she worked at. Scepter's original name was actually "Dungeon Master" but they changed it to fit their name on her design. As for the abandoned demo from Scepter, she said they abandoned it because they couldn't afford to produce it. They didn't even make it far enough to name their 3 or 4 songs. So, on to the big question, are either bands involved with this song? According to her both bands came out in 1985, and according to her this "The Falling King" song predates both bands by a year or 2. This is not Scepter or Reign, this song is older than both bands. According to her, she first heard this song on a Detroit station while visiting family. Even back then, the Detroit station personnel had absolutely NO CLUE who this was. She remembers her father making fun of the singers accent claiming it was a "Posh" accent and also used to think the lyric was "The fall, the fall in the king" lol. I explained how this song was recorded off of several stations in 1987 and she replied "How many songs do you hear on the radio that are several years old?". She was stumped this was played on Z-Rock because this does not sound like an amateur band to her. She is not the only person to make comments that this does not sound like an amateur band, this sounds professionally recorded and produced, something EXTREMELY few amateugarage bands could have done. I thought i had something, but at least i tried. By the way, apparently Reign still performs in the Pittsburgh area under the name "Metallic Thunder"." (THIS IS HIS LATEST COMMENT) If this is true, it means our search will be even more difficult.
In one of his earliest comments he said this: "My 2 oldest sisters (born in 1970 and 1972) actually remember this song being played by garage bands and local talents in the Coatesville PA area. However, they both swear on mom and dads ashes that the first time they heard this song, a local music festival in Exton PA, I was NOT born yet (I was born in 1984). Even back then nobody could say who it was or what the title was. In fact the one band from Downingtown PA used to refer to it as "The Dungeons and Dragons song". And by that i mean, according to my sisters the lead singers girlfriend (or his sister....they could never tell?) would be in the crowd and when they were ready to end their performance she would shout "Play the Dungeons and Dragons song". My sisters also remember the adults thinking this song was somehow a promotional thing for the PA Renaissance Fair. Unfortunately they cannot offer any clues to the identity of this band or songs title, their guess, back then and still today, was Manowar."
At first, he claims our band is Manowar, explaining: "I do not think Manowar is an obscure band, nor do my sisters. The "obscure" bands mentioned in my postings are all the local garage/amateur bands that they remember playing this song and most of those garage/amateur bands even back then, along with my sisters, were under the impression this was a Manowar song. Many people, not just on this post but others feel this is Manowar "pitch" song, other bands thrown around have been Iron Maiden, Overdrive (Or Overkill, i'm not sure if it's the same band?), Blackmane, Axis and Cirith Ungol (spelling?). Keep this in mind, it's not that uncommon for mainstream/well known bands to have unreleased music in their "library". A good example, ask the most diehard Rammstein fans what their first song ever was, they'll probably answer Du Recht So Gut or Rammstein. Most people have never heard their 1992-1993 pitch song, "Tier" (Monster, beast). In fact, Till Linderman himself stated in 2018 he was unaware Tier was ever recorded by anyone, yet alone put up on the internet. Like this "Fall of the King" song, "Tier" was toted as an mystery song for years but was in a group of 4 or 5 other songs that Rammstein did but never released. One of my favorite bands, Corvus Corax, actually had something similar happen, a song they did back in the early 90's, "Vampire", opening for another band was recorded by a fan in the audience and made rounds on the Neo Folk community ages later. Corvus Corax themselves heard it on a radio station in Denmark roughly 2009'ish and called them asking how and when they got that song because they NEVER recorded it for public use. Personally i cannot give a wager who this is? I am not that good with this genre so i go with what people older than me and much better with this music say. To me it could be Manowar, something they never intended to be released publicly, it could be the Z'Rose a bunch of people feel it is, it could be Overdrive/Overkill (i do not know if these names are the same band or 2 separate ones?), it could be me time traveling impersonating my great uncle Fred......ok that last one was just meant to be a joke lol." Then someone says: "has your sister contacted erik to see about the the song?" and he says "OH HELL NO!!! They haven't spoken since they broke up in 1991-1992. I did reach out to his brother probably a year ago and never heard back."
He suggests it's either Manowar or Sarissa (he mispelled them): "@aSome1 There's some confusion, my sisters never said Z'Rose was playing the song in our hometown area. Local teenage to early college yrs bands were playing it. They recognized this song when I was on a family Zoom chat, i had this song on in the background (by accident actually lol) and my oldest sister (#1 born in '70) asked what i was listening to. I turned it up and she shook her head and asked the other sister (#2 born in '72) "Oh my gosh isn't that that stupid Manowar song Erik and his brother used to play all the time?". Erik was the name of her high school boyfriend. They remember hearing it first at an amateur music fest when my brother (born in '82) was still a baby. Mainly they remember mom fitting all of them in her old "Batmobile" station wagon. By the time i was born in '84 that station wagon was gone for at least several months. The band names they specifically remember playing this, and keep in mind these were "Garage bands" from the 80's were: Venomous Vomit, Razors in your Coffee (Erik's band), Ash to Ash, Cauldron Kings, Coven of Metal, Pridesville, South of Hell and Purgatory. They said there were a few more, but didn't remember....or care....to know their names. (Disclaimer: Several peoples associated with those mentioned bands have been contacted by me and several have replied.....the most common reply is "How the hell do you know us!?" lol)
"I have actually been looking at this song for almost 3yrs. I've had some "good leads" and some "bad leads" and i've also had "WTF leads".......but at the end it is still unsolved. So far the biggest contenders, from people way better with this music than me (I'm more a symphonic or extreme metal person) have been: Manowar, Iron Maiden, OverDrive, Overkill, Onslaught of Destruction and Sonic Mahem. My sisters really believe it is possibly an unreleased or "pitch demo" of Manowar but they also said it might be a Greek band from the early 80's called Sarassa or something like that?"
Then he denies it's Z-Rose: "@lostwavefinder587 I have seen that name tossed around a lot on forums and random chats (this being one of them). Most people way smarter and better with this music than myself seem to have the opinion that it is not Z'Rose. They range in reason from: the equipment sound professional and they were not, the dates don't add up, Z'Rose only did covers so even it is them in the recordings it's still not their song.....one individual (a supervisor at work who lived in Texas during this time frame) actually said "Z'Rose wouldn't have been sober enough to finish that song". I have only heard 1 Z'Rose recording, and unfortunately the person who recorded it (I think the date says 1989?) spends the majority of the 5 minute video talking during the performance so all i hear is them and not the singer. I have to emphasize about %99 of this info i'm presenting is NOT from me but people who know this genre of music way better than me....i'm more Symphonic metal and neo folk (Corvus Corax, Heilung, Faun etc."
"Out of curiosity, since a lot people think this might be Z'Rose, has anyone contacted the family/families of Nick or Joe Cavazos? My "team" is looking into a blog page from 2018 of a pretty intense exchange between a blogger and a woman who is believed to be "Rocker Joe's daughter. In this exchange she states this song is NOT her dad and uncle's band. But it gets pretty rough because the blogger keeps pressing and let's just say some NSFW language is exchanged. I will only say this, the woman's name does match one of the names in Julio "Joe" Cavazos obituary, but they can't tell if it is actually HER or someone posing. I also find it interesting that in another posting of this song someone is claiming to be the nephew of both Nick and Joe.....but about a dozen people ask about this song and he does not answer them......but someone else will ask something unrelated to this song and he answers??"
"About a year ago on another posting of this song, someone had a link to a conversation with a woman who was allegedly Joe Cavazos daughter. She very adamantly denied this was her dads band, Z'Rose. They person kept pressing her and she did not budge a single inch, "NO, its not my dad's band". The only thing that could be confirmed was the woman's name did match a name in Julio "Joe" Cavazos obituary as his daughter. But if it was her or not I can't say? Many peoples on other postings and on forums have all claimed to have gotten in contact with Z'Rose and stated they responded "No" to this being theirs.
So the "Kings Fall" song by Bernard Cavazos is actually a completely different song. He is also not related to the Z'Rose Cavazos. Somewhere I read that the "Kings Fall"/"Fallen King" song by Bernard Cavazos is about a corrupt politician or mafia like "king" not an actual king. Again none of this is from me, it's from things I read, not me.
When 'Wang' did a video about several mystery songs he included this one. In his video (I don't know if he made more than one?) he talked about how that Bernard Cavazos has been contacted and has denied this is his Fall of the King song. If my memory is correct Wang read a message from him explaining his "king" was a corrupt politician or gang leader like king. Wang also mentioned there was another Bernard Cavazos who was a doctor and he is sick and tired of people contacting him about this song"
Someone that replied to him said:
"@CharlesMarkward probably this tape recording was an attempt from them to make something of their own, many bands have started this way, an example is the Brazilian power metal band Angra, they were first meant to be an Iron Maiden tribute but as things went by, they have decided to release things of their own...I couldn't find anything about this "Z'Rose" band in metal-archives, neither at Google with a simple research, but the data gathered until this moment make sense: the Z Rock radio is from Texas, the so called "Z'Rose" band is also from Texas, it was the 80's, so, without internet, this was the way bands used to promote their work...but your story adds some drifts from this sensible data available until now...they are/were from Texas, ok...but until then, they weren't any big group, which means they were probably 9 to 5 salarymen whose musician activity was on weekends and the money earned wasn't enough to keep up with, so, a trip from TX to PA is a long ranged one and expensive for their then standards, I can remember when I've read the Mick Wall's Metallica biography, in which they highlight how hard was for them to go all the way from CA to NY to record Kill em' All, well, unless someone sponsored the so called "Z'Rose from Texas" (like the Zazula couple to Metallica) to play in the events you've mentioned in PA...which means they were good and had potential (this "mysterious recording" doesn't let me lie), because it takes a lot for someone at the other eastern extreme of a big country like the USA to call someone all the way from TX to play in an event when probably there were good bands around and without the need of a sponsorship to travel and get some place to sleep and eat..."
Therefore Charles says: "Also, i am not the one saying it's not them. People much better with much more access to metal archives/records are saying it's not them. BUT, everything you said makes perfect sense to me and I have no argument against any of it. It would make perfect sense if it was a possible pitch demo Z'Rose recorded and kept along for a few years before a station played it. My sisters are %98 certain it was a Manowar song, the only other band they mentioned as a possibility is a Greek band i can't find anything about called something like Sarassa??"
Someone told him to contact Erik: "A little bit ago someone in here suggested i contact my sisters ex and ask where he got this song. I could not get a hold of him, but i did get in contact with his brother he played with. According to the brother they got the song from their aunt who lived in Philly (Center City) and would send them tapes of songs to play. This song was on a tape sandwiched between "4 or 5" Manowar songs. He specifically remembered this for 2 reasons: 1, their aunt wrote "Killing of the king by No Name" and 2, the last song on the this tape was labled as a Venom song (he did not recall which) but was actually "Melody of Love" by Bobby Vinton😂. So i think this is why my sisters keep saying it's Manowar, because if it was on a tape with a bunch of their songs that chances are they heard a crapload of times?"
He contacted Erik's brother (Erik is supposedly the ex boyfriend of one of his sisters) and received this reply: "Erik's brother returned another email I sent about this song. I made a post about it about a week ago. The brother says their aunt who lived in Philly included this song on a mix tape of stuff for him and his brother to play. This song was sandwiched between several Manowar songs and the last song on the tape was supposed to be a Venom song but was actually Bobby Vinton's "Melody of Love" 🤣"
Therefore debunking the possibility it's a Manowar song, he also adds: "She (the aunt) passed in 2014. She would record songs off the radio for them. She lived in Philly (Center City) but also had a place in Florida, so he was never sure which cities radio stations she would record from. This song she wrote "Killing the King?" As the title and "???" as the band name, but it was between several Manowar songs. I think this might be why my oldest sisters are so insistent this is a Manowar song because they may have listened to it with Erik and his brother.....it's a theory lol"
He also thought of Iced Earth as the possible band: "lostwavefinder587 I immediately thought of Iced Earth when I heard this song. Although it's likely just a coincidence, it's interesting to note that Iced Earth was originally called "The Rose".
Someone said to him: "if that's any help, the Greek band's name you're talking about is probably Sarissa. I don't think it's them, though: the vox sound kinda different, and their songs are mostly Ancient Greece-themed." And he replied: "Yes, thank you! All this time I've been spelling it wrong. I gave a quick listen to a demo of theirs from '86. In terms of sound and beat and tempo etc, they are pretty close to this song. In terms of vocals, they sound nothing alike." Therefore, he debunked Sarissa himself.
Now here he changed his version and provides a new lead given by his sisters:
"Holy crap for some reason my last post got cut in half and didn't include the following info, sorry! So the individual i spoke to and got the new possible lead is the former singer of the one band my sisters mentioned, Purgatory, (i do NOT have his permission to use his real name but his stage name was Tarantula). He confirmed he played this song "once or twice" but didn't know the lyrics so they just repeated several "blocks" over and over again. He heard it from a band in NJ and when he asked if he could use the song they replied along the lines of "It's not our song, we don't care" but gave no indication who it was or they even knew who it was? He suggested the band "Knightmare" because they were from Texas and he remembers all of their songs being medieval or medieval fantasy related. Supposedly they wore what looked like full on plate armor (he does not know if it was actual metal armor or something made to look like it). He saw them perform a handful of times because he spent summers in Texas on his grandfathers (mistakenly said uncle in my last post, sorry) ranch and would sneak off at night to "the metal scene" (i do not know if that was a club name or if he just meant that in general?). He began visiting his grandfathers ranch in 1980 and stopped when his grandfather retired in 1992. He gave an estimated timeline for "Knightmare" of 1981-1989."
He corrects himself by saying they are not called "Knightmare": Interestingly, my supervisor at work lived in Texas during this timeline (roughly mid 70's to mid 90's from what i can gather?) and when I asked him about Knightmare he had no idea. But when i mentioned they dressed up like knights in armor he suddenly looked startled and said "That wasn't their name, their name was Battle Battalion or some s*** like that".
But then he says: "So i posted a few months ago about this song, my sisters remember garage bands in the area playing this… I checked every band called Knightmare on Metal Encyclopedia and it doesn’t look like it’s our band." "Forgive my French.....Damn. I thought maybe it could have been a lead but i guess like dozens of others I've come across, dead end. I did a quick search for Knightmare a few weeks ago and I got all excited i saw one band dressed up like monks or Druids, but that band only came out in 2017. I think it's safe to say the name has been used by many bands."
Then someone asks him: "Does the name "Battle Battalion" show up on any Metal "pedia" sites? That's what my supervisor claims this "dressed up in medieval armor" bands name was?" and another one told him: "I saw some bands with Battalion on the metal encyclopedia and discogs and none of them are our band. I don’t think we should go based on what a band wears as our lead."
Then he debunks the Knightmare (and the Conquest) lead: "So a little bit ago i mentioned a band name "Knightmare" as a possibility for this song. Well the band was actually called "KnyghtBlyde" (Knight Blade) and i got in contact with the daughter of the vocalist last night. I played this song for her and after some confliction/hesitation she said it is NOT her dad. The biggest thing was all of her dads songs were based of Aruthurian lore and filled with references to Camelot, Arthur, Morgana, Lancelot, Excalibur etc. Since this song has none of that, its not them. She has no idea who this is. I did a quick search "Conquest 80's metal band Texas" and found 3 results. Conquest from San Antonio, split in either '85 or '87. Conquest from Dallas, '86 - '90. Khan'quest (possibly same band as Khanquistador?), no location given but split up in '88 then reformed in 2000 then......nothing? I could not find anything about any of their songs or demos or releases or band members. But it's obvious I was thinking of the wrong Conquest bands 😂 Conquest was ruled out. Someone who owns the tape was contacted and told us this isn't them."
And he says the singer of KnyghtBlade is convinced this song is from Battallion:
"So a little bit ago I mentioned getting in contact with KnyghtBlyde singers daughter who states that this is NOT her dad. She contacted me this morning, her father thinks this song might be by a band called Battalion. But her father said Battalion also went by the name AAA, Anti Aircraft Assault (or Artillery) in their early days. According to her father AAA/Battalion were from Texas but at least 2 of their members were originally from Chicago. Has anyone ever heard of either Battalion or AAA, Anti Aircraft Assault? The closest I can say is my one supervisor at work mentioned a band Battle Battalion from Texas when he lived there."
Then someone replies to him: "you are right there is a band named Battalion formed in 1984" He says: "I cannot find a single piece of music from this particular "Battalion"? From what I could find they formed between 1983 and 1985, split, reformed under a few possible names, split, repeat. 2 people I asked did say they remember a band of some sort from "out west" Anti Aircraft A-something, but neither could give any info."
Now here, he suggests it could be a Talon song:
"So here's a potential lead for everyone: I was just playing this song for a friend who is obsessed with all metal music. She asked me "Where did you get that Talon song?" Talon was/is a German heavy metal band from the early 80's that released several demos and full on albums between '83-'89. Almost all of there songs were medieval themed, especially their 2 demos. Herr's the thing, they supposedly have 3 unnamed tracks from both demos, one allegedly called "King Slayer". I listened to a bunch of there songs and I have to say there are several songs where the singer sounds exactly like our mystery singer, but then the next song they sound nothing alike. There was one song called something like "Execution" that the opening guitar sounds like this songs opening only slower? I'm not saying it is Talon, but it is possibly something to look into or at least consider?"
He also claimed the singer sounds like Bruce Dickinson (which has been suggested many times):
"I've said many times that I personally feel this vocalist sounds extremely close to Bruce Dickinson. There is a clip of Bruce singing Tom Jones' "Delilah" on either a talk or game show, and his opening of that song is nearly identical to this Fall of the King vocals! Tone, tempo, cadence, pitch......it's really really on spot. I am NOT saying it is Bruce, I'm just saying whoever it is does a good job singing like him."
He says this song could be made by Eviscerator:
"Hello again everyone, has anyone ever heard of a band from Britain, late 70's through late 80's called "Eviscerator"? Very very long story short: I played this song at a Viking/Pagan/Neo-Folk/Black Metal "bar" about half a mile up the road from my place and the one patron who looked like Elvira and Lilith Bathory had a daughter together (HOT HOT HOT) comes over and asked me to replay it and she sang along with the recording with about %95 accuracy! Oddly, at the end after the 4 or 5 "The Fall of the King"s, she suddenly sang "The evil one now wears the crown, all hail the evil one" and head banged for a few moments. According to her, this song was by a band called "Eviscerator" and they always claimed this song was written as a pitch track for the movie Heavy Metal? I mentioned how this song by numerous accounts was recorded here in the USA in 86-87 from stations in Texas, Chicago, Cleveland, NYC and (by only one account) possibly Florida. She didn't feel there was an issue with that as stations will often play random things just to fill the spot including songs that are several years older. I asked about her added line at the end and she stated "I didn't add s*** bud, whoever recorded it must have cut it off before they got to it". I mentioned how numerous people strongly believe this is the work of Z'Rose, she said they probably covered it a bunch of times but it is not their song and even stated that this particular recording sounds like it could be them covering. She was more familiar with Z'Rose than me, she commented "The 3 Cavlaros brothers from Texas right? The singer was the oldest brother Jeff?" (I know that's not their name, i only included it for aunthenticity per context of our discussion, the last name is Cavazos and there was only 2 of them right?). She also told me Z'Rose had about a dozen other names through their years including "Gypsy Rose". I asked how she knew this British band "Eviscerator" and she answered that she lived in London from 78-85 and this song was played a lot on "amateur hour" on several stations, especially university stations. This kind of took me by surprise because i thought she looked younger than me (I'm 39) but she lived in England for college and her first husband in the late 70's??"
"In my last comments i mentioned a bar i went to was going to have a mini concert featuring bands that specialize in black metal and 80's tribute metal and i would play this song to see if any of the band peoples or concert goers would chime in. I did just that and got a few hits on the radar with a few of the band members. The one band, Inviaat, the singer says he remembers this song being played on a radio station in Philly PA for an entire summer because that station was trying to find the band. He does not remember the specific station but said it was near the Taylor University campus (my understanding is that there is several?) because the station thought it was the students from that university's music program. When i asked him when exactly that would have been he said Summer of 1983 because he was married on Halloween 1983 and was hoping the station would find the band so they could play at his wedding. A member from the local band "inductus Mortis" said he recalls that song being played "somewhere in the mid 80's" but does not remember if he heard it in Chicago or Cleveland because he bounced between them. I asked several bands, include the Venom tribute band Poisonous Whisper if anyone had ever heard of a band name Eviscerator from the 80's. Only one person thought he heard the name but it wasn't a band name it was a compilation album of NWOBHM from roughly '83-'84, but couldn't tell me anything other than that. As for the other concert goers, the #1 response i got from them was along the lines of "Dude you can sing, you should go pro!".....in other words they thought it was me promoting myself (I wish i could sing like that!!). the #2 response was people thought it was Manowar. After those 2 the guesses were the usual ones i have seen here and everywhere else this topic comes up: Blackmaine, Axis, Overkill, Overdrive, Black Sabath, Iron Maiden, Anthrax, Slayer, WitchAxe and 2 people even asked if it was an Ozzy Osbourne demo."
"I asked around, including my oldest sisters I've mentioned in my postings, about Eviscerator. The only person who heard of them, the one from this time-frame not the other 8 or 9 bands from the 2000's with that name, said they were a generic ManowaIron Maiden/Judas Priest tribute or more accurately, ripoff, band who sucked. I am not saying I buy this woman's account, but i'm also not discrediting it or calling her a liar. Her familiarity with this song and her accuracy with the lyrics makes me believe she knows this song from somewhere.....what that somewhere is, i can't comment because i don't know?"
"So far my friends and I have several "pings" to look into, the name Eviscerator has absolutely nothing from the time frame we're looking at. But there is (was?) a "Lee Lesaat" Canadian/British "mercenary" (did not belong to any band but would play for others) drummer who now lives in NYC my friends are looking into.
There is an 80's metal/black metal tribute concert this Saturday at the bar I was at last weekend. After the bands play their sets they have an open mic like set up where you can play your own music (as long as it fits the theme). I'm going to try and play this song and see if anyone, bands or crowd or food vendors etc, have any reaction.
And by "pings" I just mean responses/possible possible long shot leads. The guy or girl claiming to be a psychic vampire who time traveled and wrote this song for The Lost Boys movie is NOT going to be one of them😂"
Then someone asks: "What band is this Eviscerator ? I found a band that was formed in 2012 . Furthermore tthe song is not in the metal archives I searched through lyrics was not found." He says: "Allegedly they were in England in the 1980's, but the woman stated 2 of them had New York accents. If all of her account is true and accurate, they were NOT a professional big name band. I did find several bands with the title "Eviscerator" (in different variations) but all of them were from the 2000's. The only "pro" band with that title I could find was a Hungarian band from the mid 2000's. I asked Satanic lady if she remembered any of the other bands that played alongside "Eviscerator" and she only remembered 3: "Band-Shee" (an all female band....get it?) Gargoyle, and Werewolf Tears."
"I have a very very small update for everyone, but it's still an update nonetheless. The mystery succubus looking woman who said this song was by Eviscerator and sang along to it (even when I "accidentally" muted my phone to see if she was just repeating what she was hearing.....she was not) has been identified by my journalist friend! We are going to try and get in contact with her and see if there is anything else she can remember about "Eviscerator" that could help. I'm not going to get my hopes up, but her familiarity with this songs lyrics and the fact she sang almost in perfect synch with the beat makes me feel she really did know this song from somewhere in her past. That or she is a very good actress? Lol
I found only 1 solid, confirmed band with that name but they were from mid 2000's Hungary. But several peoples now and then tell me they remember hearing that name in the 80's as various things; crappy garage band, NWOHBM compilation album/work, some sort of event space or name, most recently someone claimed he thought it was the stage name of a singer but didn't know who or what band. I'm trying to get in touch with the woman who originally mentioned that name."
He posted this comment that lead nowhere: "2 very small updates for everyone:
1) The Viking/Pagan/Goth/Black Metal themed bar just around the corner from me is having a New Years event tomorrow night. They actually agree to give me a "booth" where i can have a "guess this song" set up. And, it will be right next to where the bands play...I'm going to be between the "stage" and the food truck lol
2) The one radio station i submitted this song to will play it on their "X hour" on 1/8/24. It is not a hugely popular segment, maybe a few hundred listeners, but it's better than nothing.
Here's to the New Year and hope this song and numerous others get solved!"
"So the station played this song Sunday night/Monday morning. They played it 4 times between 2:07am - 3:12am. They received 9 calls about it and about a dozen emails (I seriously didn't know they had an email!?!?!?). Unfortunately the majority of contacts were people either asking for them to replay it or people thinking it was Manowar. There were a few Iron Maidens and one or 2 Ozzy Osborne's. Only 2 people stated they heard this song before. Unfortunately they heard it from "some kilt wearing guy at blank bar plays it, I think it's him self promoting". Yes that's me they referenced and no it is not me singing lol"
He suggest matrixx as a possibility: "There's a band called matrixx that has been giving me interest. They were only around for two years due to financial struggles in their stage. If you look up attaxe and fiinal notice they share two members of matrixx. Their drummer and guitarist sound very similar to the band from this song. It's pretty crazy too because they have a song called defy the king. They also had a label to produce their songs which is called Suma Recording Studios. This may be the reason why the audio sounds too good for a small band. I hope that this is the band! Too many good clues that I found"
He debunks the Steven Lindfield lead: "One of the names thrown about here and there on posts about this song is a Steven Linfield ("Lindi") who bounced between Chicago and NYC in the 1980's. His alleged involvement varries between being the DJ who allegedly played it on a NYC station, to being a Chicago stations record manageclerk etc etc. I got in contact with him yesterday. He denies having ANYTHING to do with the airing of this song and does not know how or why his name came up. While he did work at 2 stations (NYC, then Chicago during the summer) he was an overnight watchman (security). However, he does recall this song being played on "some amateur hour crapshoot" in '86 in NYC a bunch of times. At that point in '86 he claims people were referencing it as "The King Song" or "The song of the King" (drawn out to match the singers "The Faaaalllll, the fall of the kiiiiiing") and it was already 2 or 3 years old at that time. He did explain that at least at the Chicago station there was an amateur drop-off slot that the dj's would pick through and play random "no namers" labeling them as "space filler". Because they would be played, literally just to fill space, they were NOT mandated to keep any records of them. Sometimes the dj's would just make up names to some of these. One of his main duties was to check the drop-off to make sure there were no bad things thrown in there instead of cassettes. Another dead end, but at least we rulled out one theory......silver lining??😂 LINDFIELD, not Linfield. Darn autocorrect on this phone."
He is convinced it's a professional band's demo: Thats why a lot people I have introduced to this song think it's a professional band, or at the extreme least an amateur band playing with top level equipment/sponsor? 1983 guy stated they sound like they have equipment his garage band "couldn't even afford to dream about looking at yet alone use". It's also one of the reasons my 2 oldest sisters insist this is a professional band (sister #1 says Manowar, #2 says Manowar or Sarissa) because there are no goofs or mistakes or errors. My sisters gave an example of a garage band from their Kutztown university days, "Freefall Abyss" that self released a demo and in one song you can hear a telephone ringing in the background and in another you can hear a fan or ac unit going.
He contacted a girl named Della: "This song was actually played on an old Philly/NJ station on the segment "Della names your tune" in 2009. I was able to get in contact with "Della" (real name withheld by her request) who at first stated "I played thousands of unnamed songs bud, I probably played this one 100 times, sorry i wont be much help" . Then a few days later replied "I do recall this one, it was sent in from a local listener who had it labeled as Dungeon Master or maybe Dragon Master on a CD with a bunch of old early Manowar, JudaPriest, Iron Maiden, Megadead, Metallica and AngelWitch songs. He or she claimed their father had this song on a tape from his college days. Nobody knew what or who it was back in '09 or '10 and as far as I know nobody figured it out when I left the program in '15." The only name she gave, and I don't know if this was even a real name or the drummers "stage name" was Leopald Lestat.........I do have 2 people looking into it (from a metal dating site of all places). Disclaimer: I know some of those bands are misspelled, I purposefully left it that way because that's how she sent it to me."
"I went down that road, you nailed it right on the head. There is no way to track down who that listener was. The only hint she had, in the form of the note attached to the CD was the person said they were from Radnor PA. I couldn't tell you because the other songs kind of bounce around in terms of year: there's a Judas Priest and an Angel Witch song both from 1980 but then there's a song from Megadeath (I believe Megadeath came out in '85?) and a Metallica song from '86? For some reason my one comment didn't show up? Della gave a pretty big hint, she said the mailing address on the CD was from Radnor PA, but the phone number included was a landline for a Chicago address. Her and the station managers assumed it was a "shadow number" and didn't bother keeping record of it. A lot of her requests had local addresses with out of state phone numbers, cellular and landline."
He suggests Dungeon Masters: "I have a potential lead, "Dungeon Masters" from Pittsburgh PA? Long story short: everyone at work talks about a "hot nerdy chick" who works at the one antique book store in town and she is a music genius and knows EVERY song people play. So i decided to test it. I played this song and she stated "I think thats Dungeon Masters, they were from my hometown of Pittsburgh PA back in the early to late 80's. Thats either Dungeon Masters or someone doing an incredible job imitating them?". Given that Cleveland is only a 2-3 hr drive from Pittsburgh (from what Steelers players say) i think this could be a possible lead and explain the Cleveland recording? Again, this is only a POSSIBLE lead, but i think it has potential?
Currently my one "source" is looking into it. He is not always accurate (as evidenced when we were looking into Conquest) but its better than nothing."
And someone adds this: "Della said the same Dungeon Masters so better look into it"
But he says this: "Close, "Della" stated the listener who sent in the CD had this song labeled as "Dungeon Master?", not a band name. But I am looking into it as best as I can. I found a Pittsburgh band "Dungeon" but they're NOT metal they're an Omnia/Faun like band (neo-folk I think is the term?) formed in 2018. I sent word out to the people I know and my "team". Now it is a waiting game."

Beware this will be a long post
So we are both 14 and i met her in choir when i was like 10 or 11 and we became friends! One day i found out she was pansexual and i was cool w it, later on i found out i was bisexual (or lesbian idk) and i told her. Fast forward to the first time i thought she might like me is when we were having a concert in a big hotel and in one of the songs we had a part where we had to dance with a partner, and i ofc chose her. She was kinda embarrassed? And then she whispered to me that she is having gay panic (kinda cringe ngl) and i thought who else could it be other than me cause she was dancing with me.
Now next time i start actually have feelings for her: We were in a buss together travelling to a city to perform and she forgot her phone in a bag that was under the buss so i gave her my phone. After some time passed she put her head on my shoulder and i put my head on her head.
When we arrived we were both together in the same room and when we were getting ready she was singing and putting on songs from Spotify and there is this song that comes up that sings basically About a friend they like but they like someone else. And here is the reason i think this is weird: Before that some months ago i told her i liked this girl from my class (i dont now) and she didnt really seem to care but the song just summed up the situation perfectly if she did like me. Tbh this might be a stupid reason to think that she might like me back.
Then we have the concert and when it ends she has her shoelace untied so i bent down and tied it and we were laughing about it and it felt nice.
After that we grab some food and start going back with the rest of the group and i had an umbrella but she didnt so we both shared the umbrella. It felt so good (romantic? Idk about that but maybe). We get back to the hotel room and we sleep and the day ends. And by so far this is the gayest we have been towards eachother, like that day for some reason i felt like we got closer.
Other random times that make me think she likes me is like two times she says she loves me in English (our language isnt English and we usually talk in English when we are a lil silly) and even one time after a concert i think she kissed my head?? I dont know if that happened though lol.
She has gave me stickers on two different acasions when nothing prompted it even.
Though there are reasons i think she might not like me and they are that we usually dont text eachother or hang out, were just together when we have concerts or rehearsals. So idk lol i am sure i like her but idk if she feels the same way towards me.
I mean i tried to see if she acts like this with her other friends but i dont think she does sooooo yeahhhhhhh. Im not going to confess to her unless she gives me a bigger sign. I also dont wanna ruin the friendship cause she is the only person im out to and im in a very homophobic country so i would rather nothing go out and me being outed for the whole world. It would just make me even more depressed and lonely lmao. She is the only actual friend i feel like i have and i dont wanna lose her. My mom already doesn't really like her sooo that sucks. There is more stuff but this is whats on my mind rn. Help? (Also sorry if the English is bad)

So today I had my english term 1 exam and uh this morning i went to catch my school bus to go to school, but just before I got one, I felt like farting a little. Turns out, it was shit so some sht came out and was in my underwear. It was getting late so i couldnt go back, I caught school bus, and went to school. the shit was squished in my underwear, I hoped it wouldnt smell and it didnt. As the exam started,I tried to suck it back into my a** but eventually i forgot about it and only remembered it 2 hours later when i submitted my paper and got up to feel something wet in my underwear. I went out as fast as possible, found my friend who lived nearby and shared my school bus seat with him, and then I came home, pretended like nothing happened in front of my mom, grabbed an extra underwear and changed and cleaned the old one. My underwear looked clean tho, it was just wet idk how maybe the sucking worked. My mom didnt notice, she was too busy. I felt grossed out throughout the day but somehow it is all over now :)

So today I had my english term 1 exam and uh this morning i went to catch my school bus to go to school, but just before I got one, I felt like farting a little. Turns out, it was shit so some sht came out and was in my underwear. It was getting late so i couldnt go back, I caught school bus, and went to school. the shit was squished in my underwear, I hoped it wouldnt smell and it didnt. As the exam started,I tried to suck it back into my a** but eventually i forgot about it and only remembered it 2 hours later when i submitted my paper and got up to feel something wet in my underwear. I went out as fast as possible, found my friend who lived nearby and shared my school bus seat with him, and then I came home, pretended like nothing happened in front of my mom, grabbed an extra underwear and changed and cleaned the old one. My underwear looked clean tho, it was just wet idk how maybe the sucking worked. My mom didnt notice, she was too busy. I felt grossed out throughout the day but somehow it is all over now :)

Hello Reddit.
I, (21F), and my boyfriend, (25M), have been dating for two years. We have been long distance for most of the relationship but I am moving in with him soon! However, I am not a fan of his mom. He recently asked me to go on a trip with him to see his parents and of course, I said yes, but I am dreading it. I've tried to give her the benefit of the doubt but gosh, she makes it hard. My boyfriend knows I don't like her and I would rather not interact with her if I don't have to. His mother is a sore subject in our relationship. He wants me to put more effort in so that she will like me but she's not a person I want to be around. Here's why:
She's manipulative. I have recollection of too many instances where she would guilt him and throw fits like a child if he was doing something she didn't like. For example, he lost his job and in the days that followed, he was having a terrible time. I paid for his airfare to come visit and hopefully let go of some stress. When I went to pick him up at the airport, she called before he even got in my car and asked why his location was off. He lied to her so she wouldn't get angry with him, felt guilty, and then told her he came to see me. She flipped out on him and hung up the phone. Later, she called back, flipped out on him again, and said that if he wanted a "vacation" he could have driven home to see her instead. She then proceeded to hang up on him, again, which is a pet peeve of his.
She's needy. Calling him frequently to check in was not uncommon. He used to get nervous if he didn't pick up her calls. It didn't matter what we were doing, including times of intimacy, he had to answer. Sometimes, if he didn't, she would double call and have nothing important to say. This has ruined romantic occasions many times.
She's weird. When we first talked about moving in together, he told his mom and her reaction was far from happy. She said "whatever, I'm not worried about it," and that's a strange response. She didn't like the idea and suggested that he move back into her house instead. What????? Also, I hate mustaches. She likes them. Her husband has one, so obviously she finds them attractive. So when my boyfriend shaved his face and left the stash, she told him to call me and tell me that SHE likes it and she wants him to keep it. I had nothing to say on that call, I just smiled. Weird!
She holds things over his head. He is paying off school loans and she manages that for him and he agreed to pay her back once he had a stable income. The problem was, the pay at his first job was horrible. He would work 6 days a week and still fail to make ends meet. She was getting mad that he wasn't paying her back fast enough. He was allowed to go out and have fun, but god forbid he ever came to visit me. She would say "you're on vacation with your girlfriend while I'm working to pay your loans". Keep in mind, I was the one who did 70% of the traveling and I always paid for his flights or I split the cost with him. He took days off TWICE throughout our whole relationship, but it was still a huge problem for her.
She's shady. Turns out, the reason she was pressing him so hard about paying her back was because she took money from a family member without their consent, and was trying to replace it before anyone noticed. She also does not speak to most of her family and has little friends, which is a red flag paired with her behaviors, in my opinion.
She is a hypocrite. Unfortunately, because of the circumstances in my relationship, we've gotten into some nasty fights. She has heard about these and has labeled me a "distraction" to him and called me "dramatic". I will admit, I cry a lot when I am in an argument because it sucks! I don't want to fight with someone I love! I will also admit, I have been wrong in arguments. That's life. However, for her to label me as such, and proceed to act the way she does at her age, is a gross understatement of hypocrisy.
To wrap things up, I don't like her but I do respect her since she is the mother of the man I love. I don't think she likes me at all and she sees me as a problem but boy, I love her son. Probably more than she'll ever know. I've tried talking to her, I've bought her breakfast, I've spent time with her away from my boyfriend, I've traveled far to go to their home, and sent her flowers on Mothers Day, so obviously I care. I'm not a fan favorite but his only other girlfriend wasn't either so I like to think I'm not the problem. So, AITAH for wanting to stay the hell away from this woman?

Just wanted to give (and receive) a virtual hug to those who are feeling the pain. I (mom) have been coparenting since my son was 2 years old, and now he is 11. He was so young... My ex got a new woman about 5 years ago. At some point my son started calling her mom as well, mostly influenced because she has a son the same age. The two boys are treated the same at that house, and it just naturally happened and I couldn’t stop it without being punitive to my innocent son. Anyway, it has been such a painful past 9 years. At times, this woman takes my place and robs me of my motherhood to my son. Whether intentional or accidental, sometimes she will not tell me about things like picture day or meet-the-teacher if the notice comes home while he’s at her house, for example. Not include me in his class’s parent group online. As if my son isn’t the most important thing in the world to me? So I end up feeling like I lost custody of my son and I’m a second tier parent. And this is NOT the case. I’m right here. You can’t make me go away to pretend like you have a perfect little nuclear family! She doesn’t share custody of her son… He was a dead beat dad I guess. I can be grateful my son has a dad who made him a priority like me. But that doesn’t stop the pain. Having my heart ripped out every other holiday. She doesn’t know what that’s like. And I just have to tuck it away and smile for my son because he doesn’t deserve to be in the middle of this bullshit. It sucks. Anyone going through the same thing, my heart goes out to you.

I was thinking just now. It would be cool to have a group of teens and young adults express their thoughts/ on society, themselves, etc. and how we can use these thoughts to understand not only ourselves but others, problems and solutions in our world. Especially for minorities/ LGBTQ( I’m African American and pansexual, gender fluid ) who usually don’t have equal access to express themselves this way without being judged or silenced. Hey, I’m Mya and I’ve always liked to write. My great grandma writes books and plays, my mom writes poems, etc. I’ve attempted writing short stories, poems, I love writing essays in class. Now, I mostly write my thoughts down to get a better idea of the person I’m becoming and it’s always good to not get stuck in your way of thinking and always evolve and question ( so, more philosophical). Anyway, writing can be a good outlet for your emotions, thoughts, or just creativity and there is no right or perfect way to do it. Maybe I could make the group on discord so it’ll be easier for people to share or, idk I’m open to suggestions. I’ve also started listing topics that interest me so I can research them and just write what I learned/ my thoughts. ( this is also for introverted people who wanna share their thoughts and interests without an obligation to constantly drain their social battery. Trust me, I get it. We like being around people but it can be too much). I know at our ages we kinda have an idea of who we are but we kinda feel lost still, for me writing even if it’s just random thoughts or idk maybe I watched a video and the ideas made me want to elaborate and add my own thing. It’s really helping me with self discovery. Which discovering and loving myself is what I want to focus on when high school finally ends and I have a gap year.
Thanks for reading and let me know if this is a good idea that you guys are interested in. The group doesn’t have to be big 🥰 ( Ok, I posted this yesterday and I got a few people who were interested so we decided to make the group on discord. Then I started searching for other teen/ hobby / writing groups on Reddit to let people know) We would like to keep the age between 16-19. I even said people who are 20, 21, 22 would be fine. The people that joined so far are very kind and supportive so don’t be afraid. DM me for the link.

Hi Reddit, I’ve been dealing with an issue and I don’t know what to do.
So basically, I (F18) am supposed to go on a 12 day trip to France, Switzerland, and Germany this summer with my school. I had a couple friends going too, but I found out that those friends were talking behind my (and a few of my other close friends) backs, so I stopped talking to them as much, and now they’re spreading rumors and being rude to us every time we see them. The only people I know that are going on this trip are those people who don’t like me anymore, as well as some other younger kids who are friends that I don’t know.
I had thought that if I could upgrade to a different package to cancel the trip, but it turns out to be too late. The trip originally costs $5,100 (as well as $200 for transportation, and however much money I would be spending while on the trip, but this hasn’t been spent yet), and if I cancelled now I think I would only get back around $2,500. My family is not very well off (this is the first real vacation I would ever go on), and my mom has paid 100% for this trip and I feel horrible to have her lose the money. If I get the refund, all of the money would go towards my college.
I really don’t know if I should suck it up and go and just be depressed the whole time, or if I should lose the money and at least get some back to put towards my college. I know this is kind of young girl drama, so I was hoping to get some smarter peoples advice on this! Thank you so much reddit!

[18F] Writing buddies, anyone welcome.
I was thinking just now. It would be cool to have a group of teens and young adults express their thoughts/ on society, themselves, etc. and how we can use these thoughts to understand not only ourselves but others, problems and solutions in our world. Especially for minorities/ LGBTQ( I’m African American and pansexual, gender fluid ) who usually don’t have equal access to express themselves this way without being judged or silenced. Hey, I’m Mya and I’ve always liked to write. My great grandma writes books and plays, my mom writes poems, etc. I’ve attempted writing short stories, poems, I love writing essays in class. Now, I mostly write my thoughts down to get a better idea of the person I’m becoming and it’s always good to not get stuck in your way of thinking and always evolve and question ( so, more philosophical). Anyway, writing can be a good outlet for your emotions, thoughts, or just creativity and there is no right or perfect way to do it. Maybe I could make the group on discord so it’ll be easier for people to share or, idk I’m open to suggestions. I’ve also started listing topics that interest me so I can research them and just write what I learned/ my thoughts. ( this is also for introverted people who wanna share their thoughts and interests without an obligation to constantly drain their social battery. Trust me, I get it. We like being around people but it can be too much). I know at our ages we kinda have an idea of who we are but we kinda feel lost still, for me writing even if it’s just random thoughts or idk maybe I watched a video and the ideas made me want to elaborate and add my own thing. It’s really helping me with self discovery. Which discovering and loving myself is what I want to focus on when high school finally ends and I have a gap year.
Thanks for reading and let me know if this is a good idea that you guys are interested in. The group doesn’t have to be big 🥰 ( Ok, I posted this yesterday and I got a few people who were interested so we decided to make the group on discord. Then I started searching for other teen groups on Reddit to let people know) We would like to keep the age between 16-19. I even said people who are 20, 21, 22 would be fine. The people that joined so far are very kind and supportive so don’t be afraid.

I am 24 years old(F) and over the past few years, my older sisters have helped me come to terms with the fact that I was severely neglected and isolated, along with the rest of my siblings. I thought for so long that there was just something wrong with me, it was all my fault that I couldn’t make friends easily, didn’t know how to do makeup or hair, and felt like a sore thumb everywhere and have only had one job in my life that I got when I was 22 and that I am graduating college late when in reality my parents gave up trying when it came to me so when I was 18 I was just lost and didn’t go to community college til next year when my sisters noticed I was sinking. But for context, my upbringing was very strange. I was raised Catholic and still am practicing though I wrestle with my faith, largely due to an incredibly kind, compassionate, deeply sensitive, unpolitically involved pastor that is NOTHING like my parents, but my parents didn’t even fit in typical catholic circles, they didn’t take us to co ops or church events for the most part, and church hop instead of settling on a parish so that now going to church gives me imposter syndrome and abandonment issues. We barely left the house, my only company was 8 other siblings, and what we did most of the time was play with barbie dolls. We made up a whole town for them. I still treasure that time but I realized it was from a trauma response. We didn’t have friends or the opportunity to make friends. My education was lacking-lately my mom had my youngest siblings take actual classes with pre recorded lectures BUT that wasn’t it for me. I was convinced I sucked at math and flipped through the answers to try to teach myself because Mom couldn’t when I was older because when I was younger, she would just get mad and frustrated, same with teaching piano. She had no qualifications or qualities suited for teaching and made me think I was a failure incapable of anything. I applied for jobs from ages 17-21 but never got one because I live in a small town that hires based on nepotism. Right now, I’m working at culvers and just finished my psyc bachelors after i got my associates which wasn’t a typical college experience just my parents driving me to classes and then leaving after it so no chance to immerse myself and i just wanna get my license and move out but it feels impossible bcuz my parents wont let me. Finally, just want to make friends, move out, get another job, right now my only social interactions are culvers coworkers who are either teenagers or 40s+ and my older sister takes us swing dancing to see my other sister where I have crushes on men I barely know for being nice to me because I’m so emotionally starved. I wanna see a therapist for my issues too, but those are hard to find and not in my budget right now. How do i get over not having an identity or friends at 24? How do i heal and get another job and move out and somehow get a license or learn to use public transportation? How do i move on from intense one sided attachments to men i barely know bcuz they’ve showed me basic kindness and acknowledgment and make friends when I’m missing so much of the core experiences people bond and relate over? How do you learn who you are? I like running, working out at the gym, hiking, learning piano right now, enjoy math, and biology and like psyc tho i dont want a phd or a masters and chose to major in it from naivety but don’t know what to do with those interests and I’m not skilled in them persay. My social highlights are few and far between-a gymnastics class at age 10, a fitness class around 12-13, a Bible study at 13-14, swing dancing with a regular group from 18 through now, brief commuting encounters with other students at college - and have made me emotionally latch onto people I barely know.
I know this was really heavy, but getting it all out there feels like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I'm hoping some of you may have been through similar experiences and can offer some guidance or just an understanding ear.
This homeschool recovery journey and journey with emotionally neglectful parents hasn't been easy, and I often feel very alone in my struggles. Finding and being a part of this community has given me hope that I can work through the pain and confusion.
Any insights, advice, or just words of encouragement would mean so much right now.

PART 1:

 Every town has their own version of “The Boogeyman”. A monster, cryptid, phantom, whatever you want to call it, it’s all essentially the same thing- just a scary story they tell kids in an attempt to get them to behave. An urban legend is just a life lesson disguised as a horror story after all. For us folk living up in the tiny and once prosperous gold-mining town of Trillium, ours was known simply as The Locust Man. Now, let me start by saying, I realize how ridiculous that name must sound to you. “The Locust Man”?? Pftt…What’s he do, besides get stuck in the grill of someone’s pick-up truck. Destroy some crops? Oooh, he sounds real scary... yeah, I know. But yet, as I sit here today 20 years after the fact - a grown woman who’s wiser, stronger, and even more grounded in reality than she was at 12, I still hesitate to even write down that name. 

As a young child I had always thought it to be a little weird that our town was called Trillium, considering I had never seen a single one growing there. If you don’t know, a trillium is a small flower, usually white but they come in other color varieties as well, with three pedals and a bright yellow center. They sort of look like if you took a lily and tore off every other pedal playing “He loves me, he loves me not”. In school, about 2nd grade or so, we were taught everything about this elusive flower I’d never seen in real life, and told how proud our town was to be named after it. Trillium, Colorado was established in 1922 - A new town born in the wake of a great tragedy which befell the town that had previously sat in the same location. For us, and those that came before us, the trillium was supposed to be a symbol of hope. Knowing all that I know now, that sentiment almost makes me want to laugh - in a morbid way.

 Growing up in a small, mostly isolated town, there really wasn’t much for a kid to do. You’d have to drive 45 minutes to get to the closest mall and movie theater. The high school kids would usually all hang out at the roller rink downtown or at the old run-down burger joint called Slim’s that sat across it. But at that age, I wasn’t allowed to go hang out there by myself yet and for me, going with my parents tagging along wasn’t an option I was open to. My neighborhood was on a long dead end road leading up to a large patch of woods that separated the main part of town from the abandoned mine. The old trail the miners used was still accessible up until a point, and so me and the other kids from my street would hang out in those woods all the time. We had a “secret spot” which was, what we thought at the time, about half way through the woods, 10 steps away from a small shallow creek that pretty much ran the length of the area. Rain Creek, we called it. There was a small clearing there, and we had created our own little clubhouse using old milk crates as supports, half- broken wooden pallets as walls, along with some old lawn chairs one of the neighbors was throwing out one day. I made my contribution by bringing a tarp we had in our basement that served as the roof of our establishment. Our parents didn’t love the idea of five 10 to 12 year olds running around in the woods by ourselves, but as long as we stayed within earshot and made it back before the streetlights came on, they probably figured it was safer than us being across town galavanting unsupervised. 

It was me, Lacey, Devin, Mikey and Michelle. We were all best friends - pretty much inseparable, except the boys weren’t invited to the girls’ sleepovers and vise versa. Everyday after school, we’d get dropped off by the bus at the very beginning of our road, and it was a running joke between the Rain Street Gang (as we liked to call ourselves) for all of us to try and run off the bus as quickly as possible, while me, Lacey and Devin would all yell in unison ‘Last two home are some rotten eggs!!’, as Mikey and Michelle tried to push past us to get a head start. The aforementioned two were siblings, and lived in the very last house on our row right next to the woods, so they’d always get home last, regardless of their efforts. Although, the year that Mikey got a pair of Heelys for Christmas he finally got his edge over the rest of us, leaving Michelle to be the lone “rotten egg” until the next summer when one of his wheels broke off. The whole point of it all was just to get home and get our chores and homework done as fast as possible, so we could meet up at Mikey and Michelle’s house with enough daylight left to make our trek into the woods and back - together as a group. All five of us had made a pact to never visit the clubhouse without all members present, although us girls always had a sneaking suspicion that the boys thought themselves exempt from that rule. They, after all, were the ones that had discovered the spot in the first place, and not to mention, did most of the physical labor of dragging our provisions out there. Me and Lacey initially only heard about the spot a day after the boys found it; Michelle had walked into Mikey’s room in the middle of him and Devin talking about it, and immediately relayed the message to us. Michelle wasn’t necessarily more loyal to the girls than the boys, she was just the youngest among us and honestly couldn’t resist blurting out any mildly relevant information she thought she might have, in an effort to be included. But in that regard, if the boys had ever gone out there on their own, they would’ve had to be extremely sneaky about it, because Michelle’s number one objective in life was to gather any piece of intel she could. It was a seemingly normal Saturday morning when we learned our suspicions about the boys may have been warranted.
I had slept over at Lacey’s house the night before. We had just woken up and were still sitting on her bed discussing our possible plans for the day, when Michelle busted through the door with a look on her face that immediately told us she had finally gotten a hold of some juicy information, before she could even open her mouth to stutter out, “You-you-you guyssss, guess w-w-what!?!” Lacey gestured the nail file that was in her hand toward her, raising her eyebrows bluntly as Michelle tried to catch her breath. “So… Devin came to sleep over last night, annnnnd I was pretending to go to the bathroom so I could spy on them. Seeeeee, I was supposed to be sleeping but I -“ “Ughh come on Michelle, get to it! What’d you hear?” Lacey snapped “Ughh okay okay. So, I heard the boys talking, anddddd…. they’re planning to go explore the old mine today!!” “Alright Michelle! Good spying!” I chuckled, trying to encourage her after Lacey’s impatience. Lacey rolls her eyes, then immediately stands up. She takes the scrunchie off her wrist, ties her long blonde hair into a messy bun, and simply said, “Let’s go.” “Lacey..” I said “What??” She responds as if she hadn’t registered the tone of my voice at all. As I opened my mouth to begin explaining all the logical and practical reasons why even if the boys were stupid enough to go play around somewhere dangerous, we shouldn’t be, Michelle exclaims, “That’s where the Locust Man lives!!” I close my mouth in defeat, as I know Lacey will take this nonsense as a challenge, and because of that, no amount of my warnings concerning actual dangers would have any effect on her decision. Lacey dismisses her comment as she attempts to shove her foot into one of her new pink sneakers that she refuses to admit are too small for her. “Pshhh, don’t be such a baby Michelle, he’s not real, you do know that right?” Michelle crinkled her face and yelled back, “Yes he is Lacey! He is!! And th-th- that’s where he lives, and he eats kids that go there!” Lacey laughs at her and says “Oh yeah? You still believe in Santa clause too? What about the tooth fairy?” Michelle looked down at her shoes, and although she could admittedly be annoying, I found myself feeling bad for her. “Come on Lacey, she’s just scared.” Lacey shot me a look like she was expecting me to burst into laughter, but I just gave her a smirk and a shrug, and she rolled her eyes and said “Get dressed.”

 We walked in silence toward the end of the road, though the reasons for all three differed drastically. Lacey’s was determination and resolve, mine was comtemptousness and defeat, and Michelle’s was just fear. I found myself half-way hoping the boys had left already, but as we approached the driveway we caught them just as they were about to step off the porch. 

“Hey!!” Lacey yelled, in her trademark cheerleader cadence. “Where do you boys think you’re going without us?”. Mikey let a groan and rolled his eyes, while Devin said through a coy smile, “Well, we were actually just heading out to go to find you girls.” “Liar.” Lacey snapped, quickly wiping the grin off Devin’s face. “Michelle already blabbed- we know where you two are going and we’re coming too.” The boys looked at each other, then Mikey shot Michelle an angry look as she tried to shrink herself behind me, and said, “Fine, whatever, but no cry baby snitches allowed!!” Michelle then proceeded to prove both of his accusations correct by yelling back, “I am not a cry baby!! I’m telling mom if you don’t let me come with you!!” At that point I finally spoke up. “Alright, listen.” I said sternly, then once I had their attention I lowered my voice a bit to say, “Just for the record, I think us going to that grody old mine is a dumb idea and a big waste of time, but if one of us goes, we all go. That’s the deal, so make your decisions.” Lacey folded her arms in solidarity beside me, and with that we all had an unspoken understanding. So, with the boys out ahead leading the way, we headed toward the tree line.

 As we entered the woods, I felt a sense of dread wash over me - but to be fair, as a preteen emo kid who had already reached an adult level of cynicism, I felt a certain level of dread towards almost everything in life. So take my premonition with a grain of salt, but for some reason, this felt… different. I remember the woods being abnormally quiet that day. It took some time for me to even notice, but as soon as I did, I interrupted the mindless chatter going on to say, 

“Where are all the freakin’ birds?” Everyone turned to look at me as if I’d completely lost my mind. “Uhhh… What are you talking about?” Devin asked me. I pointed up toward the treetops. “Listen…. ” They all looked up, then looked around at each other in confusion. “Every time we’ve ever been in these woods, there’s always birds chirping back and forth. We’ve been walking almost 5 minutes now and I haven’t heard a single bird, have you guys?” “Damn, yeah, that is weird.” Mikey agreed. “They probably all just migrated!!” Devin goofily offered. “That’s stupid Devin, it’s spring. If anything, there should be more birds here, not less you moron.” Lacie argued. Devin flipped Lacie off, which was the best rebuttal he could usually come up with, and then turned toward me and said, “Okay whatever, what’s your point exactly?” “Just that - “ I looked over to Mikey, then back at Devin. “It’s weird.” I didn’t want to say what I was actually thinking. That the woods being too quiet was never a good thing. That when birds aren’t chirping, it could mean there’s a predator nearby. Besides, I was pretty confident that the boys, having both been in the scouts, knew what I knew, so saying it out loud would only serve to annoy Lacie and further frighten Michelle. Mikey broke his gaze that had been fixed on me, and while scanning our surroundings he said, “Let’s stop by the clubhouse on the way.” With a nod from me, we continued. When we arrived at our pit stop, Lacey hobbled over to the closest lawn chair and plopped herself down in it. “Ughhh, my feet are killing me!!” “I wonder why.” I mutter under my breath. “Excuse me, what was that?” “Just saying. Those shoes are gonna be the death of you Lace, you can barely walk in them.” “Pshhh, shut up. They just need to be broken-in okay? You’re just jealous cuz you’re still wearing your dirty old Vans from last year.” “Oooh yeah, you got me there. I am so sad I don’t have a pair of ugly pink Sketchers that don’t fit me.” She stuck her tongue out at me and we both laughed. I was just about the only person who could go toe to toe with Lacey’s sass. It’s part of the reason we ended up being best friends, besides being neighbors. In regard to style, personality and interests, we were almost polar opposites. But when it came to humor we were equals. And more importantly, we both had a mutual understanding when it came to our differences- I was me and she was her, and neither of us felt the need to try and make the other one be more like us. Besides, I was the only person who had ever really stood up to Lacey and didn’t take any of her crap, so I think she respected that. While that exchange had been going on, Michelle had started picking tiny pink flowers, and the boys were rummaging in the clubhouse for something. I yelled in their direction, “Hey! Big Mike and Dirty D!!” Me and Lacey giggled and she mouthed the word “big” with air quotation marks. They didn’t respond, so I walked over to the entryway and looked in. They were standing with their backs to me while looking down at an open metal box, and Mikey was reaching to grab whatever was in it. As he stood back up, I could see what it was. “What the fuck Mikey, seriously?” Hearing me cuss, Lacey and Michelle crowded in behind me. “Chill, it’s just a BB gun.” “I know it’s a BB gun Michael, what are you doing with it, and why is it here?” I was livid at the thought that he might be coming out here and shooting at animals just to be a shithead. I expected something like that from a goober like Devin, but not Mikey. Michelle butted in, “I’m telling mom!!!” “Nice try, dad knows I have it.” He looked at me and softened his tone. “It’s for protection, just in case we come across a black bear, or some weirdo creep out here. Seriously… it’s just to scare off something, not hurt it.” He knew how I felt about killing animals, especially for no good reason. A lot of people out here are poor and hunt for food, which I could accept as a reality. But hurting animals just for fun is psycho behavior, so I was relieved to hear him dispel my fear; I really didn’t want to have to hate him. “Do you even know how to shoot that thing?” Lacey asked. “Yeah, my dad showed me.” Devin clapped his hands together, making us all jump and himself laugh. “Well alright then, let’s get going!” I turned to Michelle, still holding the flowers. “You okay?” She nodded. “If you want me to walk back with you, I can.” I was slightly hoping she’d say yes so I’d have an excuse to get out of this excursion, but she just shook her head and forced a smile. I knew she was scared, but she was just too curious. Maybe I was too.

 We walked for what felt like half an hour. The trees had gotten more dense and the path narrowed from the overgrowth. Still no birdsong. I kept scanning the area in search of any sign of life other than us. Looking for movement of creatures scurrying away, listening for the sound of rustling as we passed, hoping for a squirrel, a lizard, even a bug. Nothing. 

“How much further is this damn thing?” Lacey groaned. Mikey answered without even turning around. “We should be coming up on it any time now.” “You said that like 10 minutes ago.” “Yeah, and now we’re like 10 minutes closer to it. And hey guess what, you insisted on inviting yourself - so suck it up buttercup.” “Hahahaha!” Devin laughed like a maniac at Mikey’s quip, while Lacey folded her arms and for once in her life didn’t have a snappy comeback. This time however, I did. “Well we really only came along to make sure you idiots didn’t kill yourselves.” “Oh, so you girls came out here with us to be our protectors, huh?” Devin laughed. “Ehh, more like babysitters.” Needless to say, I was flipped off for that statement. We rounded the next bend and suddenly all came to an abrupt stop one after another, starting with Mikey. Devin positioned himself beside him and let out a disappointed groan. “Shit Mikey!” A huge tree had fallen and was blocking the trail completely. There was no way we could climb over it because of all the leaves and branches - we’d have to go around it, which meant leaving the safety of the trail and crossing Rain Creek twice to get back to it. “Seriously???” Lacey exclaimed. “Maybe it’s a sign that we shouldn’t be going.” I shrugged. Mikey didn’t seem fazed by the obstruction at all. In fact, he seemed more confident. More calm. More sure of his intended mission. “It’s fine, we’ll just go around.” Michelle, who had been mostly quiet this whole time, finally broke her fear induced silence. “We are NOT supposed to leave the tr-tr-trail Michael! We could get lost!” “We aren’t gonna get lost Michelle, I have a compass. Plus, it’s literally just a few paces that way, then we cross the creek and circle back once we pass the tree and we’re right back on the trail.” “Oh you have got to be kidding me” Lacey said, “I’m not treading through that nasty water!” “Yeah Mikey, what about Lacey’s brand new shoes??” I laughed, and she playfully slapped me in the arm. Mikey’s patience was wearing thin with us. “Look, we already walked this far - if we turn back now, we’ve wasted the whole day for nothing. If you girls wanna be lame and turn around, then go for it - but me and Dev are going.” That’s all Lacey needed. A challenge to accept; someone to prove wrong. “I’ll show you lame.” She pushed past the boys and lead the way into the thick brush towards Rain Creek. It wasn’t very wide across, and there were lots of fallen limbs and large rocks spread throughout it. The current was barely that of a trickle, and the depth was no more than knee deep for us. It was definitely doable - just an inconvenience. And of course, one more ominous obstacle lying directly in our path. Another hint from the universe telling us to turn around. We didn’t listen. Lacey placed one foot on the closest limb and pushed down a few times to test its sturdiness. “I got this.” She stepped out onto it with both feet, then shimmied sideways until she was close enough to the large exposed rock in the middle of the creek, and hopped onto it. She turned around with a full grin and said, “Coming?” Mikey made his way across the limb as Lacey hopped onto a different limb which led her to the other side of the creek. Devin followed, then me, and then it was Michelle’s turn. “I’m scared to fall in!” Of course she is, I should have made her go before me. “It’s okay Michelle, it’s easy!” I reassured her. She didn’t look convinced in the slightest. “Come on Chelle, we’re leaving you!” Mikey yelled, already walking away. “Nooo!! I’m coming! Wait!” She made it across, but instead of just walking like everyone else did, she got down on her hands and knees and gripped the limb as if it were the only thing in between her and a 50 foot drop to the ground, which was funny to see but prolonged the whole process further. After all, we were about to have to do all of this again. Next go round went a lot smoother. The creek was more shallow here, and there were a whole lot more stepping rocks and debris built up. Having just crossed successfully a few minutes ago, we were all more confident in our abilities, including Michelle - who this time we made go first. “Just walk across like it’s a bridge! You got this!!”, we all cheered for her, and then clapped when she made it to the other side. Before we knew it we were back on the trail, and it wasn’t long after that we finally arrived at our intended destination.

 We all stopped and stared at it for a minute, carefully examining the dilapidated exterior of the place that had brought both prosperity and destruction upon our town. Mikey bent down, picked up a rock and threw it into the entrance. We heard it bounce a few times before it stopped. 

“Just to make sure nothing’s in there.” he turned around to clarify. “Did anyone think to bring a flashlight?” I asked. “It’s dark as hell in there.” I was hoping for just one more reason not to go. Devin reached into his cargo shorts pocket and pulled out a small keychain-sized flashlight, smiling with the satisfaction of finally being useful. “Okay, Mikey’ll hold the gun, I’ll shine the light and you girls follow behind us. Let’s go.” Mikey shifted the BB gun from its position of resting on his shoulder, to holding the barrel in his left hand and the butt in his right; trying his best to emulate a soldier’s stance. Something his dad had taught him I’m sure. We ducked down a bit to enter. “How far in we going?” Lacey asked. “Until we see something cool.” Mikey answered. I turned around to check on Michelle, still hovering in the doorway. “You coming?” I could see in her eyes that fear had finally gotten the better of her, and curiosity had taken a backseat. With wide eyes she shook her head. “The-the Locust Man lives in there.”, she tried to whisper. “I knew you were gonna be a baby about this!” Mikey yelled. I crouched down and put my hand on her shoulder. Against my better judgment, I say “How bout you just wait here for us and pick some more flowers. We won’t be long, there’s nothing in there, I promise. Just.. don’t move from this spot and we’ll be right back, okay?” I could feel her unease, but she seemed to accept my reassurance nonetheless. “Okay.” I smiled, then stood up and looked down at my watch to check the time. 12:46 PM. I turned and headed into the darkness, trying to catch up with everyone else. I didn’t feel good about leaving Michelle, but I didn’t feel good about letting the rest of them go in there alone either. And if I’m being honest, maybe a little part of me wanted to see what was in there too. When I caught up to Lacey she asked, “Where’s Michelle?” “Stayed behind at the entrance, she was too scared. I told her to pick flowers and wait there for us.” “Pshh, figures.” “Yeah. How’s your feet?” “At this point, numb actually.” It was so dark in there that even Devin’s rinky dink flashlight was illuminating the area enough for me to start taking a closer look at my surroundings. I looked around at the rock walls, they were covered in what looked like orange mold and green algae. There was a slight breeze coming in from the entrance, but the whole place just had a staleness to it. The boys stopped and turned around as we arrived at the first curve. “So ladies, what do you think? Cool huh?” Devin asked excitedly. “Smells like a fart in here.” I said.

 The most dangerous thing about exploring an old mine wasn’t getting lost in the maze of tunnels, or tripping on the rusted tracks and slamming your head against the wall - it was something simply referred to as bad air. Pockets of still air that have dangerously low levels of oxygen, the old men in town would call it “black damp”. There was also something produced from the old chemicals they once used called “stink damp”, which smelled like rotten eggs. Both were lethal. 

“I wonder if there’s dead bodies in here!” “Uh, Dev… we’re gonna be the dead bodies in here if we go in too far. I wasn’t just making a joke, you know that rotten egg smell can mean bad air.” Mikey interjected. “The entrance isn’t far behind us, there’s still enough fresh air coming in. We won’t go in too far, let’s just get to the end of this tunnel where it splits off and look around a bit, then we’ll turn around.” The fork in the tunnel really wasn’t that much further, and even though I knew once we rounded this curve I wouldn’t be able to see the entrance behind me anymore, I decided what the hell. Maybe a hundred more steps, then we can finally turn around and this whole dumb situation would be closer to being over with. When we got there, we looked down the length of the connecting tunnels each way. Everything looked unusually identical in its deterioration. I could see how someone could easily get disoriented and lost down here. “Hellooooo…” Mikey yelled to the left, his voice echoing through the corridor. Devin turned to the opposite direction and called out, “Hey yo, Locust Man!! You in here?” We all giggled, which made me think about Michelle, still waiting at the entrance for us, alone in the woods. I looked down at my watch. 12:46 PM. “Hey what the f-“ My cuss word was interrupted by a loud bang that came from the passageway Devin had just been hollering into. We all froze. I didn’t have time to process that my watch had stopped right as we entered the tunnel, or that Michelle had been left alone for who knows how long now, or that we had just heard what sounded like a support beam crashing to the ground, because next came a horrifying screeching buzzing sound. It sounded distant at first, but was quickly increasing in volume. We silently looked around at each other and backed away stunned at what we were hearing. Mikey never took his eyes off the tunnel though, and slowly he began to raise the BB gun to firing position. Without even thinking, I grabbed the barrel and pushed it downward. He quickly tore his eyes away from his target to look at me. I shook my head and managed to barely choke out the word, “Explosion.” He nodded and I let go. I looked down at the gun in his hands, and seeing his finger had already been on the trigger, I realized how lucky it was that I didn’t make him shoot himself in the foot. All of a sudden, the noise stopped. “What the hell was that?” Lacey asked. “I don’t know, nothing good.” I said. “Let’s just get the fuck out of here before this whole place caves in on us or something.” Another loud bang erupted from the right, extremely close to us. “Shit!!!” We all turned around and ran as fast as we could back toward the entrance. Devin tried to push past me, but as he did my elbow knocked the flashlight out of his hand. “My flashlight!!!” “Leave it!” Mikey shouted “The turn is right here, we won’t need it!” We rounded the corner, and using what little light there was illuminating from the entrance to guide us back, we ran like our lives depended on it. And they may have- none of us dared to look back, not like we would have been able to see anything anyway. When we finally made it out, we were all completely out of breath. I felt like I was going to throw up. I have to admit though, once we had made it back to safety I felt a rush of adrenaline like I had just had a near death experience. That feeling quickly faded into sheer panic when I looked around and realized Michelle was nowhere to be seen. “Uh, where’s Michelle?” Mikey asked me. “I told her to stay right here, she can’t be very far… Michelle!!!!” We all called her name, as loud as we could. No answer, no sign of her anywhere. “Alright look, she probably went off a little further looking for flowers to pick.” I tried to rationalize. “Let’s just split off in 4 directions and walk in a straight line while calling for her. She’s bound to hear one of us.” Everyone agreed, and even though I appeared outwardly as the level-headed calm person you need to take control in an emergency, inside I was petrified that something had happened to her, and that it would be my fault. I took the east, and headed out. It didn’t take too long before I passed a large tree and saw her sitting down behind it, looking at something on the ground. “Michelle! Oh thank god!! Didn’t you hear us calling for you??” She didn’t answer me, or even turn around. “Michelle, didn’t I tell you to stay by the entrance and not move?!?” My relief was quickly turning into annoyance as she continued to ignore me. I walked up closer to see what she was looking at, and my mouth dropped in awe of what she had found. It was a single white trillium.

 They say it takes 8 years for a trillium plant to produce a flower, and conditions have to be just right for it to bloom. That’s what makes them so special and rare. I stared down at it almost in a trance, like I was seeing a mythical creature. Michelle slowly reached out her hand towards it and I snapped out of it. 

“No!!” I grabbed her by the arm and she finally turned around to look at me. “If you pick the flower, the plant will die.” She ripped her arm away from my grasp and whined, “But I want to show my mom!” We heard Mikey calling from the north and I cupped my hands over my mouth to yell back, “I found her, she’s over here!!” I looked back at her. “No Michelle, come on, you can just tell her about it when we get back home.” I had enough, I was beyond ready to go and we still had at least another 45 minutes of walking to even get back to the clubhouse; an hour if Michelle kept up her crap. I grabbed her arm again and pulled her up to a standing position, looking back at the trillium as I walked her away. Mikey caught up to us, breathless but trying to hide his concern. “You little shit, we should have left you out here! What the hell were you doing?” I let go of her arm and she walked toward Mikey. “She was trying to pick a flower over there.” “It was a trillium!!” Michelle said, with the biggest smile on her face. “Wait, really?” He looked at me in disbelief. Before I could respond, a blood curdling scream echoed through the forest, coming from the west. It was Lacey. My heart dropped into my stomach and once again, every molecule in my body went into full blown panic mode. This time, I couldn’t contain my composure. “Laceyyyyyy!!!!!” A panicked shriek erupted from my lungs and I took off running. Mikey grabbed Michelle and sprinted after us. The trees became a blur; I didn’t even feel all the scratches and scrapes. Had she come across a coyote? A mountain lion? A bear? I didn’t even stop to think about the danger I might be about to come in contact with, I just ran. And then I found her. She was lying on the ground, holding her left foot. “Lacey!!” I said, trying to choke back the tears that were building up. “I think I twisted my ankle!!” “Oh god damn it, you bitch.” I struggled to catch my breath. “I thought you were dead.” “I might as well be, I have cheerleading practice on Monday!” Mikey and Michelle caught up to us. “What happened?” He asked “She’s being a drama queen, she just rolled her ankle.” I was angry. “Can you get up?” He asked her. She was able to stand, but as soon as she tried to put any pressure on her foot at all, she screamed in pain. We spotted Devin running over from the south as he was yelling out, “Hey yo, everyone alive and accounted for?” “Yeah, Lacey hurt her ankle.” Mikey yelled back. As he approached he looked concerned. “Can you walk on it?” He asked her. “No.” Without hesitation he replied, “Well alright then, looks like you’re gonna have to piggyback it all the way back home.” He lowered himself enough to where she could hop up onto his back, and we headed back toward the trail. Even though my nerves had begun to settle a bit, I knew we were still far from being out of the woods, in more ways than one.

Hello all. I want to preface this by saying that I am grateful to have an outlet like this to turn to. I’ve just turned 21 and my alcoholism has honestly gotten out of hand. I became a heavy drinker at the ripe age of 19 and honestly I think it’s sad.
I grew up w alcoholic parents and while I am NOT blaming them for my actions I do want to admit I think it played a role a little bit, especially w my mom.
I never use to get bad hangovers but around me being 20 my hangovers started to get pretty bad. My hangovers are not just a headache that goes away in a few hours of being awake, I get so dizzy like I’ll feel like I’m gonna pass out and it lasts ALL DAMN DAY. The best way to describe it is as if I’m a walking brick. I’ve called off of work and laid in bed all day to pass it. It’s horrible. I hope I’m not the only one that gets them like that.
I’ve also never found a cure. Drink more water. Eat more food. Take more supplements. Nothing works to prevent OR cure it. So… the only thing I do to cure it is what? Drink more. A lot more. I’ve literally gone to work drunk bc I feel like that’s the only way to feel normal. Yes it’s bad and I’m not proud at the f all.
I’ve gotten to the point where sometimes before I even have bfast or drink my daily morning glass of iced cold water w lemon.. I’ll take a shot (or two or 4). Yuck.
Not to mention I feel like me being 21 has made it worse. I always had easy access to it before hand although it was obviously MUCH harder. Now I can go anywhere anytime. It sucks but it’s become like a hobby.
Anywho, yesterday I had one of the WORST hangovers of my life. Even laying in bed I felt so sick and dizzy and out of it. I genuinely considered going to the er. It lasted almost all day until it became SOMEWHAT withstandable if that’s even a word.
I couldn’t even fall asleep to sleep it off, I was twitching so bad and sweating my heart was RACING. Ugh ew.
And so I’ve decided to take a break. Mind u the longest I’ve gone in the past two years of my binging is 2 lousy weeks. Not impressive.
I’ve had this debate in my head for these past 2 years on why I don’t like to be sober. How come I don’t feel like myself w out alcohol? I don’t have any confidence w out alcohol? And I feel like it’s a cycle I need to break. I am no stranger to the fact that it’s a disgusting cycle that’s makes depression worse in the long run until u stop. I need to give myself time. I’ve made so many mistakes under the influence, crashed my first car that I had for 4 years, ruined my relationship w my parents and some friends. Even lost my favorite job I ever had from drinking at work. It’s embarrassing but it is my truth
I need to rediscover how i lived life before I even discovered that useless euphoria. I see people living sober who love life just because they’re alive. That’s overdramatic but I meannnnn it’s facts lowkey.
Well anyway, yall wish me luck and good luck to yall.

My fiance and I took an attachment style quiz (the attachment project, familiar quiz). He's been getting a secure attachment but I didn't believe him, so something told me to take a closer look with what was going on based on this quiz that I took previously. If anyone is interested, you have to take the quiz and scroll down some and you'll see a graph. This graph supplies your overall attachment style, and your attachment style with your Mother, Father, and relationship partner. So here are our results:
Overall I'm disorganized (ergo why I'm in this sub, lol), I have a secure attachment with my Mom (this just recently changed after a healing conversation that we had (5 hour phone call)) and preoccupied with my (non existent) Dad. I also have preoccupied in attachment with my fiance.
My Fiance on the other hand has secure attachment all the way around......
..... EXCEPT with me, his attachment style is avoidant.
I don't even have the words to EXPRESS WHY I feel so damn....broken and flawed. I feel like before my partner, there was a situationSHIT that I was in that didn't help and before that I was with the father of my child who also wasn't shit toward me either. They were both probably avoidant, which made me preoccupied I guess with them. Now here is my fiance....same thing. This TRULY sucks, because he has a secure attachment with everyone EXCEPT the person he should have a secure attachment with.
What the fuck is wrong with me and how can I fix myself, cause I'm tired of not getting what I want/need in relationships?

I wanna just preface by saying that I know I'm partially responsible for this shift in dynamic; I've always been an introvert and not always the most stellar friend because of it. I've said no to plans, I've bailed, shit happens, right? I know that's on me. Relationships go both ways. I'm at the point where I'm afraid to try and take the initiative, though. I'm afraid of the potential rejection.
My core friend group is my three siblings and our partners. I'm only actual literal siblings to one of them, the other two are my cousins (and siblings to each other), but we're close as can be and have been our whole lives. Our moms (sisters) are each other's best friend and their respective firstborns (one of whom is me) were born only six weeks apart from each other. We have a lot of cousins but we're separated enough from the closest ones to our ages that we were always our own little "demographic" in the family, so to speak.
I'm very close with my sibling, and despite my cousins being the only cousins who lived out of town growing up, almost an hour away, they're the ones we saw the most. We did everything together. The four of us share so many memories. I love them all dearly. We're all grown up now, we all have a partner and are either married or engaged by this point, and I love all the plus ones too!
But
I've always been a shy and introverted person. My siblings, I was NEVER timid with; I'm effortlessly comfortable with them, always have been. But, being the type of introvert who can be drained by social situations, as I got older and had to work soul crushing jobs, and ESPECIALLY when I had a job with wildly unpredictable hours making it difficult to make/stick to plans, I didn't always say yes to invites.
Saying that, I see how it's not totally fair. They've all cancelled plans too, it's normal. But something is different with me. Something changed. The first time I felt left out, we were teenagers and I was waiting for them to call me to hang out at the mall, and they neglected to do so. When I called them, they were all already there. Without me. I was devastated.
That's just a one-off mistake though. As we grew older and were able to drive ourselves to places I like to think we did a lot together. Fishing, hiking, board game nights, movies, just hanging out. But then covid hit, and something is different now.
Along with the pandemic came the most difficult period of my life. I was going through the grueling process of helping my once long-distance partner immigrate so we could be together, and I was facing severe emotional abuse at the hands of another friend group. I was just so... defeated a lot of the time. Tired. Hating myself. Struggling to get out of bed some days. Just wanting to stew in my misery. Quarantine made it harder, because even the option to see them all was gone.
My sibling was the only one able to attend my wedding when we had to uninvite everyone. Fine, that's nobody's fault. It sucks, it hurts, but I get it. I don't really have the right to complain, and I don't want to anyway, I don't blame anybody.
It was because of social restrictions that I was the only one not there for my cousin's proposal. I understand why I was the one left out, but fuck, it still hurt. I'm the only one of the four of us who had no part in cousin's wedding. I understand not being part of the wedding party, but I wasn't ever even asked to help with... anything. Not even just decorating the hall. They all stayed in a cabin the night before, which I understand where I wasn't part of the party, I wasn't part of that but... Fuck I didn't even KNOW I was the only one left out until the day of, made all the worse with my partner not being able to attend. I'd never felt so alone in such a big crowd. But, that day wasn't about me. I hid and had a little cry but I pulled it together and got through it. I had to leave early to catch a flight, so I missed the real party, but again that's nobody's fault. And I don't want to make anyone feel bad about how sad it all made me. I don't want to sour that day.
A little while ago, cousin invited me over for some gaming, and I had to cancel last minute due to a migraine. I felt awful and apologized profusely. They and my sibling played together another day instead, I later learned.
More recently, I heard my sibling mention in passing that there was a day out fishing with cousin. We used to do that together, all three of us. Why wasn't I invited? But these two are the best friends you'd ever see, and I get they wanna do things together themselves sometimes.
Last week, cousin invited me to a board game night, but my partner was working and I didn't wanna be a third wheel with cousin and his spouse having just had some devastating news. I'd only just heard of said news a few hours before and was admittedly afraid of the idea of being the only other one there but... Turns out I'd've been the fifth wheel. I wish I had known. I would've gone.
This weekend, we lit our firepit for the first time and I asked in the group chat if anyone wanted to come and hang out. No takers. That's ok, it was very last minute anyway. Maybe another time.
Just today. Pictures on FB. Cousin took a week-long vacation and the others joined up with them now and then. Fishing, hiking, just hanging out.
I read this awful post once. "Every group chat has a second group chat excluding one member. If you're not part of that chat, it's you."
It's me.
But I have no right to complain. Like I said, cousin got some bad news and I don't want to pile on. My sibling's wedding is being complicated by in-law drama, so now's not the time to be sad over my ruined nuptials. That trip was about my cousin's partner proposing to her, I shouldn't make it about me. My spouse is a total homebody, he's not too bothered that as my plus one he's being excluded too. He knows I'm hurt by these things, but I don't want to worry him when he's adjusting to the stresses of a new job, so I can't talk about it like this with him right now.
These are the main recent examples. I know this is just a few incidents. I know they might seem small or petty to some. I know I'm still loved... don't I? When I was beckoned to join my siblings for a photo at the wedding, just the core four of us and the bride... For a second there, a terrible fleeting moment, I didn't believe it was me they were beckoning. Why would they? It's me.
It's only me.
If they don't want me there for the good times, why would I ever want to burden them with my bad feelings.

I am not the OOP. The OOP is u/themachucajr posting in Marriage
Ongoing as per OOP
1 updates - Long
Original - 7th May 2024
Update - 15th May 2024
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My wife friend-zoned me and wants a platonic “companionship”
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My wife (35f) and I (35m) have been married for 15 years and we've been together for 20 years. We have two kids (12,14) we absolutely adore and work tirelessly to provide the best possible life for them. For the past 3 years, things have been somewhat bumpy. I understand that our kids are at an age where they require a ton of our attention and resources with school, band, club sports, and other extracurriculars and I'm aware of the physical and emotional toll that can have on marriages.
However, for these past 3 years, my wife and I have had very little intimacy and very little sex and we've been trying very hard to work on that aspect of our relationship. This past year has been the most difficult and by far the darkest year in our marriage. We didn’t talk very much, we essentially became roommates coparenting our kids under the same roof. It was very depressing and very demoralizing. It was to the point where we began contemplating divorce and it became very dark and gloomy in the household because of that.
We began seeking help with both individualized therapy and couples therapy and it seems to have helped some. Little by little we started to get along and started to have deeper conversations about what our marriage looks like and what we would love for it to look like. This is where it gets tough. As time passed, my wife started to tell me she no longer was "in love with me" and that she only saw me as a "best friend." That she only loved me in a very platonic way, and this was one of the main reasons she didn’t have any desire for intimacy and let alone sex.
This was very shocking to me and quite frankly, I was devastated. I because angry and depressed and I couldn't fathom the thought that I was no longer wanted or desired by the person I felt completely in love with. Things began to deteriorate again and not long after, we were back to square one. I sat down with her one afternoon and had a heart to heart and began to ask questions about where the root of this problem lies, and her answer was "I don't know" and that "I have built up resentment towards you but I don't know where it stems from." As you can imagine, this provides very little to no insight into how to approach this.
I'm puzzled, I'm frustrated and I do not know what to do at this point. Currently, we've arrived at a place where she says that she has no sex drive and no desire for intimacy or connection. She says that all she wants is simply "companionship" which basically means our coparenting roommate dynamic. I asked her what I could possibly do or what is it about me that is so unattractive or undesirable and she her response is always "I don't know." She stated that she does "love" me but its not the same. That she has been feeling disconnected for years and that our marriage just takes up too much work. Her focus is only the children for now and that my coparenting contributions are "meaningful" to her in our home.
I'm at a loss and I'm mainly venting about my frustration. It's tough to realize that the person you love has no feelings for you. I feel like at this point I'm only here to contribute financially and as a parent. I feel like what she means with "companionship" is that she's comfortable with the convenience of having a good father for our kids and my financial contribution to the household.
In regard to intimacy and/or sex, she basically told me that its not something she’s interested in or wants at this time. She mentioned that the only way to get to a point for any of that is to be intoxicated which o believe is incredibly awful and very wrong. I told her I do not think forcing herself to have sex or be intimate by drinking or smoking is good and I declined to be a part of that which to my surprise, it upset her and made her more distant.
We're both extremely honest and transparent. We've never cheated on each other and we are always free to look through each others phones, emails, socials, etc. and we hardly ever do. I asked her if there was someone else and she declined. Honestly, I believe her. We then peacefully went through each other’s things and as expected, it was clean. We've always been very forward, even with the hard topics so I don't smell nor feel any foul play or infidelity.
Am I wrong for declining to only be intimate or have sex when she’s intoxicated? (I'm firm on my stance of not partaking in this "only when I'm high or drunk" sex because it doesn’t sit well with me.) I do not know how to help our situation and I'm starting to become a bit anxious and desperate. We're both fairly young and healthy individuals and good looking. We both have good standing careers and are good parents. I'm just not sure how our lives could have driven us to this point. I'd love some outside perspective on this matter and some insight on how to address something like this. It feels so awful to be unwanted and undesired by my own spouse. I hate it.
tl;dr: My wife of 15+ years is no longer in love with me and doesn’t know way and now says she can only have sex while intoxicated or I need to settle for a platonic sexless marriage and she doesn’t know why that is but it is what it is and I'm in need of insight or advice.
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Comments
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Warthog__
From your comment history it looks like you are Swingers? If so, I would think that would be relevant information to consider.

OOP: We did some swinging in the past. That was fun for some time. We mutually decided to stop doing it and we have established it’s not the case. When we were swinging however, our marriage seemed to be in a good place. This IS something we did disclose with our couple therapist and made sure to include it to make sure we’re not neglecting an obvious potential issue.
I will say, I did ask my wife if what she experienced during swinging is something that is affecting her view on our relationship and she said it wasn’t. Our swinging experience was always together and it was very sex driven. Nothing really emotional or “poly”. Truth is, I have to believe her at her word. I have no reason to distrust her. To date, she’s always been very forward and never afraid of dealing things head on. No matter how painful.

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failedopportunities
It’s an obvious potential issue bro… wether it be she’s enjoying herself a side piece and wants nothing to do with you in that manner anymore. Or, she just went along with you on the swinging and never wanted to do it in the first place. Hence brings resentment. Regardless, should have been included in the initial post.

OOP: Swinging was her idea. Not mine. But I suppose I should have included it but I honestly believe her on it not being an issue. I don’t have any reason to distrust her. Maybe it’s something she has to accept with her therapist or our couples therapist. Can’t really approach that with a solution if she doesn’t think it was a problem. IDK

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BigIronBruce

She says that all she wants is simply "companionship" which basically means our coparenting roommate dynamic.

That's only a marriage if you both agree it is. You're hoping she's going to wake up one day and feel different but she's basically said that's not going to happen and doesn't want to figure out why she feels that way. It seems like you tried several different ways to get to the bottom of it and she's either deflected or is being honest that she's not in love with you.

Am I wrong for declining to only be intimate or have sex when she’s intoxicated?

I wouldn't do this, either, if that makes you feel better.
Will she be your best friend if you live elsewhere and have a relationship with somebody in love you. Probably not. Which makes the whole "best friend" speech feel like self-deception on her part.
I won't lie, if it were me, I'd get a divorce. She doesn't seem willing to do the work to fix the marriage and you can't fix it alone. She might promise to fix it or beg you not to but you need to follow your gut as to whether she actually can or will fix it. She's serious that she wants you to stick around but not necessarily as her husband.
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OOP: A very hard truth to accept here. Thank you

Interesting-Tip-4850

"I’m ensure I do everything possible to mend our marriage to ensure my own peace of mind and excite knowing I did everything I could."

you may still concider 180 method, to protect yourself and perhaps in the same time the reality that the ship is leaving may start to change your wifes perspective. If that doesnt what else would.

OOP: Can you elaborate on the “180 Method”?

Interesting-Tip-4850
Basically withold from any unnecesary interactions and affection. This is from an infidelity forum, but principles are the same https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/the-simplified-180/

OOP: I bookmarked this. I’m heavily considering this.

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Update - 8 days later
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I wanted to give you guys an update of how the therapy session with my wife went this week. Not sure if this is helpful or not but I took many of the responses/comments/suggestions from my initial post and put together some things I wanted to discuss with our couples therapist to help us navigate some of the core issues that may be affecting this situation.
One of the main things that is the "buzz word" of this has been the term "resentment" and it has been really eating me up inside knowing my wife keeps telling me she doesn't know why she's resentful or doesn't know why this is affecting her emotionally/mentally. I brought this up with our therapist once again and resurfaced the conversation about being married for so long (15yrs) and being together since we ere 14yrs old. Our long history of growing up and how having children when she was 19yrs old (me 20) significantly changed the trajectory of our lives.
We experience severe poverty and many hardships in the process and we essentially had zero social life for the past 10 years because we were so busy raising babies (2 kids now ages 12 &14). She followed up with tons of questions directly mostly at my wife about her feelings towards this and 90% of the responses were very "our kids" focused. It definitely felt like she was afraid of saying "yes it sucked" because she would feel guilt or shame because it would imply she regrets the kids.
I mentioned this in the session and the therapist encouraged her to look at this outside of the lens of being a mother and to try to view it a bit more selfishly and individually and it was very eye opening. My wife mentioned that she was very frustrated with the fact that we did miss out on many things in life. She also was very clear in saying "I do not think I missed out on other partners or dating or partying but I certainly lost all my friends." This was huge because one of the big pieces that has caused a strain in our lives is how silo'd and isolated we've been (again busy raising kids). I followed up by reminding her that it's important to have good friends and to make time for herself and her friendships.
For the past 3+ years, we've had multiple conversations about friends and how it is important to have them in life. Specially when you have similar peers that can help in many areas of life that perhaps we have no experience navigating and even simply for enjoyment. It has always been something my wife avoids, even though she's always been someone who needs that external stimuli. The main reason for her not investing in friends or even herself has always been "the kids." Like I mentioned earlier in this post, 90% of the answers have to relate to "the kids" to some degree.
At this point in our session I started to feel like there was a common denominator (the kids) in most of the frustrations and problems she was experiencing. So I simply asked her "Do you think you may be upset at me because I'm responsible for these kids in the sense that I got you pregnant so young?" I wasn't ready but she said that she was upset at me for that. She also followed up with the fact that she knows that's unreasonable because it "takes 2 to tango." I did feel like it was progress because it kind of gave us something to work on and help alleviate some of these "burdens" so we agreed to invest more time in nurturing good friendships both together and individually.
Towards the end of the session, we began to discuss what actionable items we would take from this session. At this point, it was still all very ambiguous and blurry as to what the outcomes were. I was very direct and very forward in asking my wife what her plan is moving forward. (NOTE: I had decided prior to the session that should my wife say the same thing about being a coparenting roommate that I would take the 180 approach and essentially do me) She started basically saying the same thing, that she doesn't have any desire to be intimate or sexual with me as of now and that she loves me immensely and she feels bad for not being there for me (as mentioned in my first post).
I also brought up the brief swinging that happened, to which for the 50th time said it wasn't a problem. I agree with her on this. This was something that was a "mechanical" approach for a solution to a problem that was very much in existent when we tried this. We (both) really have no issue to this. We know it happened, we tried it and mutually stopped and turned the page.
I also brought up other life events that may cause resentment and really we ended up not getting anywhere else as far as the root for resentment which was discouraging.
I then basically expressed to my wife that I will not be ok with that arrangement. I told her that I've really done everything I can and that this issue really has reached a point where it has nothing to do with me or require me to do anything that I'm currently not doing. I was very direct and saying that I will not be accepting this dynamic and that I need to be with someone who is actively involved in our marriage, works towards resolutions and is very much interested in maintaining an active intimacy and sexual relationship.
I expressed how I am not going to be a "convenience" and that there was more to life than being roommates and coparents. I made sure she knows I love her dearly and that I do want this to work for the better. I also told her that I'm fully committed to this marriage so long as she is as well and that is she wasn't, its ok, however I will not be a part of something where these efforts are not reciprocated. I told her I have no plans of leaving, and I do not want a divorce, however, I made it clear that if this dynamic continues that divorce will be the only outcome.
Of course tears were involved and it was a very bleak and sad ending to the session. Still nothing was said and I walked out very discouraged and very determined to start working on the 180 as soon as we left the room. It's painful and very difficult because much of the 180 requires you to be very short and cold and transactional. The saddest part is realizing, this dynamic already is very cold and transactional.
Here is where it gets VERY interesting. I started working on implementing many of the 180 recommendations that same day. I mentioned to my wife that, "hey, things are going to be a bit different moving forward. I'm going to honor her roommate/coparent dynamic without reproach and that it should be no mistake that I am not happy here and I am never going to be ok with it but I am done working on it if she wasn't going to work on it."
She agreed and went to bed. I started to build distance and started to basically focus on myself. Very short and transactional. She asked for help on some of her personal things to which I declined and it really shocked her. She was upset saying I was being petulant. I explained to her that, she is now fully in charge of her own life and her own issues.
We didn't talk all day and we only spoke when necessary. Few days I keep this going and she's very visibly upset and stressed. I typically react to that with gestures of help or nurturing but I didn't this time. That night she was crying telling me she's stressed and she things something is wrong with me because I'm "indifferent." I simply listened, then I told her that this is the dynamic she proposed and that I'm simply (much like her) taking care of myself and focusing on myself.
I'm not going to lie, it has been VERY hard to be cold and distant because as I mentioned before, I love her and I wish I could hold her and love on her. However, I know this is somewhat manipulative in a way just to get her way and still keep me in the friendzone. So I've been staying the course.
We're now going on a week of this 180 and let just say, there has been MANY changes on her side. I think she is starting to realize there is more to me than just "friends and coparenting." I sent her a text a few days ago essentially itemizing bills and separating the financial responsibilities 50/50 and SHE LOST HER SHIT. She basically told me it was "out of left field" to which I responded "hey, friends go in 50/50 and as your friend I expect nothing less."
This was very eye opening because it gave me a glimpse of I'm really taken for granted and how her level of comfort and convenience at my expense is really overlooked. I pushed through anyways and basically told her that this is the new dynamic she asked for and that its still a "bargain" because she would have to be 100% if she was on her own.
I'll wrap up with this. While the 180 has been working in many different areas, I am still very much sad about the overall situation. There have been MANY eye opening statements being said and realization that have not been pleasant to encounter. It has also sparked new energy and new efforts on her side as well. She's definitely seeking to talk to me more often and while its hard to turn down, I hope if things improve, this continues to happen.
I've also noticed that she's making more time for herself aside from being a mom which is HUGE because she pretty much neglected herself for years. I'm very pleased seeing her be more herself. My hope is that as we work on ourselves, the marriage improves. There really is no telling at this point where this will go. We are very much cordial and amicable even to this day and that's a very good sign.
Boundaries are set and expectations are very clear and I feel that no matter the outcome, I will be at peace with everything that has been done. We're still going to continue the couples therapist until we either rekindle our marriage or end up in divorce. I feel like having this nonbiased third party really helps as a witness and as a guide through this. No matter what I will always love my wife, however, I will not participate in a sexless, intimacy less marriage because we both deserve better.
Thank you all for all the kind words and recommendations and feedback. This will be my last post on this topic and I wish you all the best.
TL;DR: My wife friend-zoned me wants to just coparent at my expense but I started the 180 method to try and find a solution because she doesn't want to work on us which seems to be working on getting her out of her rut and helping me discover more about how she feels. Also, therapy is paramount and highly recommend to all couples.
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Comments
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Complete-Old-1960
Bottom line and not to be brutal, but there is one thing you don't have infinite amount of, is TIME. This has to be resolved in a timely manner. It takes 2 to be in love and to be loved, and u only have ½ of the equation. You need to put a time limit on you being the good guy and think of you and your future. Look hope it works out for you, but listening to what you are going through and what you could be in for you can still be a good father but also be a great husband to another wife if you find that special person again.

OOP: Definitely. I think this “soft ultimatum” (180 method) has been very eye opening. I’m definitely hoping for a rekindling of our marriage but I’m also bracing for divorce. I agree on a timeline and I’ve decided on a timeline for myself privately. I don’t want to give her a timeline because I want to reduce the pressure, however, after 1-2 yrs of things don’t improve, it won’t be shocking or a surprise if we split. I think 1-2yrs is more than reasonable.

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shes_a_killer
I have to agree with this, simply because at some point, the person who has gone 180 and is waiting for the other person to decide will begin to wonder, "Wow, they're really taking their time coming around to me...did they love me at all? If they ever appreciated and cared for me, why would they keep me waiting and neglecting me for so long?" Except, in my case, it had more to do with the other person being stubborn and unable to admit their faults.

OOP: I understand what you mean. I don’t think I’ll ever doubt she loved me at all. I’m certain she did and I’m certain she still does. I know it sounds crazy and I’m not at all infatuated or blinded by love. Love is far more than the intimacy and sex we’re lacking.

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RandyPan_theGoatBoy
I think it’s interesting that in the comments of your original post you said you didn’t think she was taking you for granted but you came to realize she absolutely was. Can you give some more details on what the 180 method is?

OOP: Yeah, I definitely felt this way. But with this 180 method it’s happening right in front of my eyes. Actual actions and reactions taking place that clearly demonstrate that she is taking me for granted. She actually see this as well. It’s evident she’s thinking about this heavily based on her demeanor and her behavior.
Here’s what I used as a guide:
https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/the-simplified-180/

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I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.
Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

I’m new to this subreddit and by the looks of it most of you in here can relate in some way so I figured why not confide in those who share my struggles even if it’s barely.
So I 19M am currently just wondering what the point is at this point. I’ve got some goods going for me, if you could even call them that. I have a job that not only pays amazing for someone who graduated from highschool 2 years ago, but also doesn’t need to have a degree to have so that’s an upside I guess. I have 1 one my dream cars (even though it doesn’t fucking drive at the moment). And that’s really it.

 Nothing else is going good for me and it’s making think what to do. I got injured at work and am currently in a lawsuit with the state because of it. Due to missing work so much because of this injury I am around $3,000 in debt because of a loan I had to take out to pay for the medical expenses. I’m at risk of losing my job also due to my attendance because of this injury. I haven’t had car insurance in almost 3 months now because once again, no money. Very few friends 1-2 of which don’t feel comfortable around me because i don’t express myself or act like they do in public (im a very introverted person and have to keep my behavior in check because if i just let loose and let my mind and body act as they want im probably gonna kill someone), no girlfriend (for a number of reasons but primarily im not good looking and trust issues). I barely talk to my parents because i feel as if they’re disappointed in me and that’s why they wanted another son so badly. I’m not particularly smart. Dropped out of college before the semester even started because I knew I would fail since I barely graduated high school. And am in constant pain for various reasons. And to top ALL OF THAT OFF, I’m also black (mixed but it’s not like people can tell the difference) so I also have to deal with racism and discrimination everywhere I go. So to sum all of that up, I’m broke, lonely, have trauma because of a bunch of other shit, depressed, tired, in pain, ugly, hated because of my skin, stupid, and a disappointment. So I ask you people of Reddit. What the fuck is the point of going on with life. I know it’s not all sunshine and rainbows and the world’s not fair. But idk how to keep going. I’ve been dealing with depression for the past 15 years and the other day my mom asked me while i was visiting her if i was depressed because im also constantly tired. KNOWING I WAS. I didn’t even answer I just looked at her. And when I told her why she stared at me and didn’t know what to say. Not even my grandmother who is a licensed therapist had any words to give me. Makes me think that if not only a therapist can help me then what’s the point. Here’s the other thing that sucks. I have so MANY thoughts that run through my head but if I share them with family or friends. I’ll lose the last bit of familiar interaction I have. I have a lizard to keep me company at my apartment but I’m barely taking care of him. He’s doing even better than me. Free food, water, shelter, entertainment. 

I want nothing more than to die but nothing scares me more than death. Ironic isn’t it, how the thing I want most is also my greatest fear. Almost poetic. So please, tell me what to do suggestions are welcome.
PS: for those who wonder what my job is I’m a correctional officer. I can’t say what state for a few reasons but it’s in the Midwest.

I'm sorry for this long ass rant I just wanted to say what I feel. Hi everyone,I've been struggling with suicidal thoughts alot recently,I always struggled with intense internalised mood swings,low self esteem social anxiety,an inferiority complex,and a very vicious cycle of destructive thought patterns,I have these periods of high motivation and confidence,they're extremely short,and I have these longer periods of feeling worthless or completly numb,i'm bad at dealing with intense emotions,I know i need to process emotions in a healthy way,but I'm sensitive and mine get so intense they physically hurt,and my emotions are like an avalanche one emotion and memory leads to even worse ones,and they flactuate a lot like they're so feckle and umpredectable that I can never pinpoint a constant state I'm in,like one second I'm so hopeful and motivated and happy the next I want to kill myself everything sucks while lacremosa is playing in the background,I developed some addictions to avoid my feelings,not substance abuse issues,more like electronic devices and sexual stuff,I spend so much time scrolling doing nothing to drown the world,to the point I drowned my brain,I'm always sooo tired wether I sleep early or eat healthy or do sports whatever I do my head is always foggy I'm always tired and my motivation is null,I don't have any passions anything I try I stop after a while not because I'm incompetent,I just tire of it and lose all my motivation,my interests are as fickle as my emotions,they change so much my life goals everything,they change so fast soo much that I can never see a materialized path for myself,I see Daedalus's maze and I have no Ariadne to guide me through it,and because of that just stop,I wake up in the morning and nothing no drive no goal no certainty and no reason to wake up(right no I'm majoring in engineering I like it now but I'm sure I will hate it again very soon),I want that fire passion drive,the irony is I have no clear goal but so terrified of dissapointing my parents family and literal strangers,I spend all my day procrastinating like I'm really lazy,life is just sooo boring,I live in a country where I feel stuck,it's a third world country with no opportunities and anything big you want to do is denied to you,I don't know how to love life,to wake up with a goal so clear you can touch it,a fire that makes you feel alive,i want real connection too,like i have friends good ones,but i just feel like i'm always a 3rd wheel a ghost that they forget the moment I'm out of their sight I want to be important to someone to believe I am,but my brain can't believe it I always feel like I'm a burden like everyone in any given room hates me for just being there,and it's very hard for me to keep relationships because I'm also not consistent,my constant insecurity and social anxiety make relationships and interactions so stressful for me like really really stressful,a voice in my head constantly talking to me,and I just prefer being alone it's more peaceful,and I get bored of people?I don't know meeting people ruins them,I like to live with the image the ideal I created of them in my head,and I'm inconsistent one second I want to cut someone out of my life and the next I like them and just as randomly hate them and find them repulsive,I know I'm a coward but I don't have any guidance we don't really do therapy in this country and everyone's too religious,so they just tell you pray and God will help you I tried I failed I'm an atheist now,also I'm pansexual so add that to the list,i just feel so detached like what's the point,the only times I feel alive is when i info dump on my mom or while reading a book even the latter is feckle and I can lose my intrest for weeks,I spend days numb not a single thought goes through my head,I always try to break cycles but they just happen before I even know it,I don't think I'm depressed I don't have the symptoms of depression other than anxiety and low self esteem it's just who I'm I think I do have childhood trauma because of the physical(he used to choke me and beat me so hard I couldn't breathe even spit in my face)and sometimes sexual abuse and assault my brother put me through(I'm 19m) btw,I did suspect bipolar or borderline personality disorder but no I don't have the symptoms,I truly think it's just a me problem,my personality or something I don't know as I said I don't really have a professional to ask,like is it the norm to almost attempt suicide at the slightest inconvenience,that at the slightest inconvenience you go into intense emotional distress like a madman and blame yourself for everything,and feel guilt and every emotion so I intensly you want to end your life to stop this intense unescapable pain, eternal nothing seem like a treath,I know about passive suicidal ideations,how it's healthy and helps us cope,so maybe it's my coping mechanism? although I don't know what's normal that's the problem I have no reference to see wether I'm normal have a problem or just a drama queen I don't know,maybe I'm just emotionally immature,and bottle my emotions too long, because my brother's abuse instilled in me this idea that expressing or standing up for myself will get me hurt because he was stronger than me so now I bottle my emotions and don't stand up for myself because I know that strength is everything and it's stupid to do so because I'm weaker and will just lose so I'm a ticking time bomb,so maybe I have the aftermath of Chernobyl or pompeii inside of me. You know what's funny, sometimes I wish that reincarnation is real because I want to be born in a different life and different body,and sometimes I even want to kill myself because I have this morbid curiosity about what happens after death other that the fact that I'm tired of life,so I guess my fear of hell saved me?yay to religious traumaaaa!!