Hello everyone, as you likely know, back on Oct 31, 2021, I announced a $30,000 USD reward for additional video content, or definitive sourced proof of a hoax from the creator. The reward dropped every 6 months and on Oct 31, 2023, it was removed. I would like to present what the outcome was, but for TL;DR, there were two attempts on either side of the reward, but both did not meet the requirements to receive the reward.
To start, I am a human, I have my biases and faults and I acknowledge that my interpretation of the attempts could have been wrong, and that either of them could have been authentic. Meaning, that the person that wanted to prove they created the video series could have actually been truthful, or that the person that said they had further content could have had or still might. I did seek the consultation of two very close confidants who are two of the smartest people I know, and they also agreed with my decisions to not grant the reward.
I have full record/screen captures of both interactions, but at this time will only be posting samples from them. Both claims to the reward came within the first 6 months of the reward, and no one came forward after. I am okay with that I didn’t have to give away $30,000, but also a bit sad we didn’t either have more content or definitive proof of a hoax so I/we could just move on!
Claim of hoax creator:
The person (https://www.reddit.com/usezerosumgame0123) that reached out to me claiming to have created the video series made an account on Nov 11, 2023, 11 days after posting the reward, with seemingly only the intent to claim the reward with this account. No account activity has been noticed on the account since its creation 2.5 years ago. Our conversation lasted 2 weeks from Dec 30th 2021 to Jan 13th 2022. In short form here is what was presented and stated:
1) The person started the conversation by basically saying that they acknowledged that they did not have the full requirements for the reward but were asking for at least part of the reward.
2) The evidence that they were the creator of the video series were a login name for an online video game, two related videos that were shared with me by anonymous drop box, and stated claims of the video and its origin.

• The Evony Game login. I simply could not accept this as proof of the reward for two reasons: The login time and name creation was listed on the site as “Account from 2016” and the IVAN0135 videos were of course released in 2011; and the log in name resembled this example “Ivan031522”, but was not Ivan0135. To me, this was not definitive evidence related to being the content creator.
• The two videos. The individual claimed that they created two videos that were on the web as a “proof of concept preliminary concept” to the Ivan0135 videos. The videos that were shared with me are known videos if one has been following this topic for a while. They are linked here in this thread https://www.metabunk.org/threads/skinny-bob-videos.11760/post-252750 with youtube links https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKNiAoJQk0U and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNJiGuSZQFQ (reuploaded version). Both the videos were known to me (one I posted very early on in the sub’s history https://www.reddit.com/SkinnyBob/comments/f33r1t/hoax_video_from_2008_in_the_similar_fashion_to/) and with a bit of sourcing (https://www.metabunk.org/threads/skinny-bob-videos.11760/page-2) I found the apparent ownecreator of the videos. As you can read down the page, this person denied making the IVAN0135 videos, made a clear explanation of the creation of the videos, and seemingly provided their name. Two screen captures below…

https://preview.redd.it/ck7olutltluc1.png?width=3080&format=png&auto=webp&s=60a055737b9e7e200897abecd2b53f5a45b00b6c
https://preview.redd.it/529geuantluc1.png?width=1632&format=png&auto=webp&s=b8c0f38ae83880c2612e492e24e09212aeb5585f

• General claims of video creation by the individual that did not count towards evidence:

- Individual claims they went by many names “James Van Greunen, Judy Fältskog, Oliver Gerschitz, Ivan Abramov (please note this last name for connection below).
- "Hard-drives destroyed, drafts erased, password from the youtube account nuked”.
- It was a “art school” project from France.
- Mix of many film effects,
- Family vacation was filmed at a beach in the background, hence the name.
- Skinny Bob was a very thin woman in a suit.
Ultimately, the person did not provide any true evidence that they were the Ivan0135 video creator. I feel that anyone knowledgeable about this topic would agree with my conclusion.
For proof of the conversation, I have posted an image of the start and end of the conversation. We actually started the conversation very briefly in Reddit messages and not Reddit chat.
https://preview.redd.it/ynw8chc4uluc1.png?width=2442&format=png&auto=webp&s=f744af1ab8e82513e88c10bc7d72deaa071bf467
https://preview.redd.it/mrpvuz05uluc1.png?width=1138&format=png&auto=webp&s=54003ff38737302f91f419b13f7a9cb1f1371fe0
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“Unsolicited” support for the above claim of hoax:
About 3 weeks after ending my conversation with zerosumgame0123, I received a third-party message from someone claiming that the creator was a person named Ivan Abramov. I won’t provide their username as they still use their account, but I will use the start of their name “Deb”. This individual messaged me on Reddit seemingly trying to support who zerosumgame0123 claimed to be, again, Ivan Abramov. “He uses a vast array of aliases, but that’s his real name”. The person then linked to an imgur they uploaded that was known by me, and perhaps others who have followed the Ivan0135 videos. The image comes from a wedding set easily found through the name at the bottom. The 135th image is titled Ivan-0135. It’s clearly just a coincidence. Flickr page linked with all the other images, such as Ivan-0134 and Ivan-0136 https://www.flickr.com/photos/28275360@N07/albums/72157622933755212/with/4157461557.
First message page from Deb…
https://preview.redd.it/akbcx83duluc1.png?width=1291&format=png&auto=webp&s=5b8ffb4bb9677d89336aa6130c934b413df4f27f
Deb then linked to a LinkedIn page https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivan-abramov-8605078/ (along with image posted below). Before I go any further, I 100% do not think this person is in any way involved in this topic, so please just view the LinkedIn page and leave the person alone. Their limited experience for 3 years in 3D graphics from 1996 to 1999, 12 years before the Skinny Bob videos came out, doesn’t match the timeframe of the video series’ production. The LinkedIn person also did not continue to pursue animation or animation programing after 1999. That and recall that zerosumgame0123 claimed the video was done with a woman in a costume, and for “Family Vacation” filmed at a beach and such. Add on that, to me, and likely anyone with a reasonable mind would see these are not the same people based on facial appearance.
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https://preview.redd.it/q7gnn1ykuluc1.png?width=1668&format=png&auto=webp&s=9c8b9ae8e746fbdf82ec5c5e0bda0896942e384d
From my research, I believe Deb was zerosumgame0123 trying to support himself to gain a part of the reward. My zerosumgame0123 was from France as stated, and from Deb’s reddit page they are not an English native speaker, the times they would message me would indicate Europe, and many, I mean many, of their comments are written in French and are in France subreddits. I have included an image from their Reddit page, but have blanked out a lot of their comments, because otherwise they could be used to search sentences, like I just did and found their account! Basically, if you do find the account, kindly just leave them alone. It’s not worth any of our time.
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https://preview.redd.it/v6gpkouquluc1.png?width=2072&format=png&auto=webp&s=cec7769be6ffdd1acc666c0fe6a5a69a3ef0a2e4
The conversation with Deb was over within a couple days with limited overall conversation. You can see on the final page of conversation that I stated the information was not valuable because I could not support any of the information with any actions on my end. I did recommend to the person to post to the group, but they of course did not. My last line, shown in the image below made a cheeky reference that I had a strong indication that they were zerosumgame0123. No conversation or messages were exchange after that.
Last message page from Deb…
https://preview.redd.it/2x164bvduluc1.png?width=1042&format=png&auto=webp&s=df74ae46c5b93cfdddcf09f81f0227506ddc7d35
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Claim of additional content:
I am honestly and personally perplexed with the person who came to me about providing new video content. I was contacted by email still within the first period of the reward, with the subject line “My husband had the full video footage”. A supposed woman stated that her late husband had in his possession, and that she had seen, over an hour of related video content of Skinny Bob visitations and interactions. Her story and claims were realistic, and she did not want the reward, just air fare to Europe and back to retrieve the supposed flash drive.
I have posted the only content I will share from the individual’s email, and I feel this supports the situation. The redacted parts are too personal and not appropriate for sharing.
https://preview.redd.it/8qwqeesxuluc1.png?width=1964&format=png&auto=webp&s=15c1bb0e6c409bc44afbbcc6118b2e97274f9769
As you will read in part of my response. I did take an extended time to respond. This is my biggest regret of the reward process, but as you will read, I hope to earn your compassion rather than criticism.
https://preview.redd.it/ckovl5x0vluc1.png?width=1964&format=png&auto=webp&s=a991617a625fcd5efec8e29f86fdce897cb0b23d
Middle section of email removed for personal and confidential reasons.
https://preview.redd.it/fyv4xwz2vluc1.png?width=1962&format=png&auto=webp&s=2a15c904db276a353ce83331c95214c2fec95f9a
I have since emailed the individual yearly, with the emails not bouncing back, but it is unknown if she has received the emails. Perhaps the email was just used for the one purpose of contacting me, and/or she no longer uses the email. I don’t know. What I do know is that I have not heard back and don’t expect to. I wanted to believe she had video content, and I made an earnest effort to facilitate the transfer that protected me and her as best as possible, but the ultimate result did not materialize.
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Final words:
I want to thank you for taking the time to read my reward review. I know it was the best I could have done, even though it wasn’t ideal for solving the mystery. I also want to apologize for my lateness for releasing the debrief. With a job and other life challenges and needs, I have been delayed with getting the material out that I want to, and I still have more to. In time, I promise.
I have a favour to ask, when I set up the reward, I set out to help try cover a small part of the cost of the reward with poster sales. So far, I have sold around 60 of them, and have another 200 or sitting in my condo. I really want and need to sell the remaining ones. I want to ask, if you feel this subreddit has been enjoyable from a content perspective over the past 4 years, with all that we have found, and all the work and time I put into the reward and broader moderation of this subreddit, to keep it as high quality and directed as possible, can you please consider helping me by purchasing a poster from me. I will also sweeten the deal, if I sell the remaining 200 posters, I will release the whole conversation of the individual who tried to claim it was their creation (minus some very small personal info points). The entire conversation is interesting from a human psychology perspective, and who knows, you might end up feeling I should have granted the person the reward! And as a closing, after these remaining posters are sold, I won’t be selling them anymore. :)
"Life size" Skinny Bob poster link: https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1095708841/standing-skinny-bob-poster-from-ivan0135
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I hope you are well in life and love,
Redd
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I have researched the tide charts etc but have one question in regards to the callouts on this map. Where it says “Caution 5ft tide” or any of the others, is it specifying the point at which it becomes impassable?
Would a 5ft tide callout mean once the tide was over 5ft in height, that section would be covered?
Also curious about freshwater access, I’ll be staying at Seacreek, Shi Shi and North Ozette. I know it’s going to be raining and likely water will be running but I always like to hear from others.
Thanks for any and all input!

Sunset at Asilomar Beach. This one was taken on Feb 19th, 2024. If you want to see more, visit the link below.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/130604796@N05/

Sorry in advance for long post! I once worked as a topic finder for MrBallen back in 2021, but I am sure he must have forgotten that by now, (it was such a long time ago). But I thought I would share this story with the community.
Fortress - DESCRIPTION ON TUNNEL SYSTEM
URBAN explorers know The Fortress as the best stormwater drain in Sydney: more than two kilometres long and up to 10 storeys high, with slides, balconies, and waves from the Pacific Ocean battering bars across the outlet at Lurline Bay.
(see urbexforums.com/showthread.php/10839-A-Few-Australian-Drains/page2)
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https://preview.redd.it/63occ51gxqkc1.png?width=945&format=png&auto=webp&s=779d54c6bf00b9e428c6e0e75184687ad53ab444
There are water pipes everywhere under the city. And some of Sydney Water’s 46,000 kilometres of pipes are impressive constructions up to three metres in diameter. These tunnels were frequented by juveniles in the area who even went into the tunnels to bodysurf on weekends.
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https://preview.redd.it/v6b8w8e7xqkc1.png?width=700&format=png&auto=webp&s=a28becf8d03b97749a056714917c7197d0497ff8
https://preview.redd.it/bhzov2fv1rkc1.png?width=703&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f0309ef17f660c6d426d69b26ae38cd78a81211
TAKING mobile phones into 'The Fortress' could have saved the lives of two urban cavers swept to their deaths by a sudden torrent of rainwater.
https://preview.redd.it/pjqhuzpjxqkc1.png?width=1002&format=png&auto=webp&s=c6f59ffb7f59e91818cf5ccd323f49c49468a68e
On January 20, 2008, a Sunday, a sudden rainfall caught three graffiti painters off guard as they were spray painting murals in stormwater drains in Sydney. Holly Legge, 21, and Dwaine Larrossa, 25, together with Michael Malinowski, 27, were 50m underground, spray-painting murals at Sydney's Lurline Bay, in January 2008. The weather had been sunny and dry but heavy rain swept in quickly, producing a deadly surge of water that coursed through the tunnels. Others who visited these tunnels before said they usually had someone watch for a weather change up on top, who could call if there was to be a suspected rainfall.
Experienced so-called 'drain walkers' have told The Daily Telegraph there is mobile phone reception within the underground network of tunnels. that leads from near Circular Quay and also underneath the Sydney Opera House, offering a unique view of the Harbour. “You can only do it at low tide,”. The dangers of recreational trespassing were underscored when two people were killed in a flash flood in the eastern suburbs in 2008. They were painting graffiti in what’s known as the Fortress, a stormwater drain that runs for more than two kilometres and opens into caverns up to 10 storeys high between South Coogee and Lurline Bay.
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https://preview.redd.it/zxmrrltyzqkc1.png?width=945&format=png&auto=webp&s=9b5bd7c4a079d0f46fb8273f5af11868c4922473
The three graffiti painters went into the now notorious 1km of tunnels via a manhole in Moverly Road, Kingsford/Maroumbra district. But all three were swept by a sudden torrent of rainwater and trapped by a grille at the ocean entrance to the tunnel in Lurline Bay they were caught in a flash flood in an underground chamber where they had been painting.
The most popular manhole to use for entering into the drain system was in a back street in Maroubra. This lid was a 40kg six seg pizza, but nice and easy to lift despite its steel and concrete construction. It sits next to a telephone pole in a quiet back street. Popping it see's you heading down a 4m deep shaft and into a heavily graffed junction room. In the storm drains there were a lot of different tunnels to explore and it was very popular location to visit for an urban exploration group in the area. The tunnels go on for kilometers under the city.
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https://preview.redd.it/fraucg521rkc1.png?width=525&format=png&auto=webp&s=3618b5ec72835d43cc90dd5cb07cb6cb51440c25
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Exit of fortress into Pacific Ocean.
Police will close the entrance to a stormwater drain in Sydney's eastern suburbs where two people drowned and a third miraculously escaped after torrential rain flushed them out to sea. Picture above from them documenting after the accident.
On January 20, 2008 the graffiti painters were surprised by a sudden surge of water after sudden torrential rain where the city saw as much as 15-22 mm of rain in 20 minutes which quickly overflooded the tunnels and swept them away. One 27-year-old man, Michael Malinowski managed to escape between the metal bars of the grille and was rescued by a surfer in the area. But a 25-year-old man, Dwaine La Rossa and 21-year-old woman Holly legge drowned caught on the grate, before Maroubra lifeguards risked their own lives to retrieve their bodies.
It´s unclear how the tides were at the time of the accident because normally the tides shift during the day so either its high tide at morning or at evening basically every day, but at low tide the water doesn’t reach the outfall just crashing as foam just outside it, and you can exit at the grate at low tide, but at high tide it has waves from Pacific Ocean smashing against the grate. And as Michel could swim outside its unclear if it was also high tide at the time of the accident or if it was the surge of water that made him clear the rocky parts after exiting the grate. One article did mention it was rising tide at the time of the accident and surges with 2 meter waves coming in and hitting the grate while the surge of water also swirled from within the outlet.
Lifeguards reported it was very dangerous conditions inside the tunnel and that they are surprised even Michael made it out, was a miracle.
…….
Ms Legge and Mr Larrossa who went by the graffiti tags “Flaps” and “Banish” had both used the website of Cave Clan - a national group dedicated to exploring and painting underground caverns - to find locations for their art. The pair, who were not Cave Clan members, entered the stormwater tunnel in Sydney's eastern suburbs with a third person, Michael Malinowski who was 27 known as “Mik” or sometimes known as the tag “Plan”. According to Michael these were two of his closest friends.
The Cave Clan being a group of urban explorers that frequented the Fortress and drain systems for exploring, and who also posted information about the drain system on their website. (see urbexforums.com/showthread.php/10839-A-Few-Australian-Drains/page2)About the cave clan (Cave Clan - Wikipedia) which is through which this group found their location.
The three graffiti artist caught in the storm drain was as follows, Holly Legge
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Picture above shows Holly or “Flaps” leaving her tag on a train at night.
Ms Legge, Holly or tag “Flaps” as her tag was a graphic arts student at TAFE, also had a full-time job and was involved in at least one community project, her friend said. St George TAFE is an art school in the southern parts of Sydney.
"She was a member of a group that has personally financed a warehouse for the use of artists such as herself and it has been approved by the council. The warehouse is currently having disabled access put in at the cost of those artists financing it.
Holly also lived with her boyfriend Morgan Stephens, who was also a graffiti artist, they had been living together since a long time and they were known in the community as very social, having lots of friends and arranging parties through which she knew a lot of graffiti painters in the community. At the funeral service at St Paul's Anglican Church, Castle Hill, Morgan Stephens held back tears as he described Ms Legge as his "best friend". "I feel as though a part of me has died with her," he said. "The past four years that I spent with her were the best four years of my life. I consider myself the luckiest man in the world to have shared that with her." Mr Stephens said she had been "full of life" and recounted some of the things she did, including often changing her facial piercings. "I could go on all day about the things I loved about her," he said. Relatives and other friends paid tribute to Ms Legge, remembering her interest in basketball, surf lifesaving and karate as well as her most consuming passion, art.
Her uncle, Stephen Mark, said Ms Legge achieved distinctions in maths, science and English in her year 10 school certificate at Gordon East Public School (northern part of Sydney). She then transferred to TAFE to study graphic design and was accepted into an advance design course. TAFE had art and music programs and Hollys life was focused on art.
"She was the best female spirit in the graffiti world," said Blake (a friend). "They [Morgan, her boyfriend, and Holly] were living together for ages, and they had parties all the time. I met heaps of friends through her." Morgan's father also visited the bay with his wife, who said Holly was studying graphic design at TAFE. "[Holly] was beautiful, she had a beautiful personality," she said. "We were with her just last weekend."
Well-wishers visited Lurline Bay. Holly and her boyfriend, Morgan - were well-known graffiti artists. Blake said the illicit nature of graffiti forced artists to go underground and guard their anonymity. "A lot of people think that graffiti is for other people to look at. A lot of the time it's just for yourself. It's another artform. You're trying to find a big space to do it because that's the best way to express yourself. "They were just doing something you do every weekend. You try and find somewhere to paint." Another friend, Gavin, said: "They've obviously found themselves tucked away in a place that wasn't the best."
Graffiti squad police confirmed that Dwaine La Rossa was known to the unit, with past offenses ranging from drugs, goods in custody and assault. (But the art maybe was an escape from his otherwise sometimes troubled lifestyle?) Larossa had a girlfriend named Bobbi at the time. She had asked him to wear a pink shirt and the day of the accident he wore a pink shirt, because his girlfriend asked him too.
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Picture above; Banish aka Dwaine Larrossa
Banish various tags (see pictures)
Tag Dwaine / Banish
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Banish tag, (seen above)
Michael Gustav Malinowski, 27, the third graffiti artist out on this fateful day, also the owner of paint supply shop Five Six Seven on King Street, Newtown the name, which is also the address to the store. It’s one of the largest suppliers of spray paint to street artists and taggers in Sydney.
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https://preview.redd.it/c1jed37cyqkc1.png?width=797&format=png&auto=webp&s=4c00fd1dce4313483feeeb3ddfdb6eece27cc81d
Michael Malinowski had previous run ins with police that included an unsuccessful attempt by police to close his Newtown paint shop or restrict the types of sprays he could sell. On April 4, 2006, he was arrested while painting on a wall of the M2 Motorway at Beecroft. He was convicted, fined $400 and ordered to pay $67 court costs. On December 12, 2006, he was convicted for selling spray paint to a minor, fined $650 and also ordered to pay $67 court costs. In an interview with The Sun-Herald after his shop opened in 2005, Michael Malinowski said he was determined to educate the area's youth about the do's and don'ts of "street art". He was responding to concerns that his business would become a one-stop shop for vandals.
Maybe because of these concerns about how tagging some walls or buildings could lead to his shop being closed down, much of the graffiti painting had to be done in more obscure locations. Every weekend Michael and other graffiti artists would be scouring for new interesting locations, trains, trainstations, or other hidden places.
Urban explorers know The Fortress as the best stormwater drain in Sydney: more than two kilometres long and up to 10 storeys high, with slides, balconies, and waves from the Pacific Ocean battering bars across the outlet at Lurline Bay.
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https://preview.redd.it/4cmslg5j0rkc1.png?width=649&format=png&auto=webp&s=a2bf915fe03f4a89dc6d23c530d3bd669733e44f
Holly, Dwaine and Michael were all artists and well-known members of the graffiti-writing subculture -supposedly climbed into the drain through a hatch in Moverley Road, Maroubra. At 05.30 pm (AEDT) They painted, drank and then are believed to have climbed down from a dry platform below the manhole into a network of tunnels, staircases and pits, leaving behind a long-necked beer bottle and carton of vanilla milk and a bag of spray cans. The storm hit the area about 7:00pm (AEDT).
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https://preview.redd.it/vzgq9mpeyqkc1.png?width=945&format=png&auto=webp&s=82e415ecb90a93d49df519679d6ef8b49c4dfd7c
The three had entered the drain at about 5.30pm on Sunday to paint graffiti, and had apparently not seen the massive front of black clouds that released a deluge on the city.
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https://preview.redd.it/pvaawt4iyqkc1.png?width=945&format=png&auto=webp&s=347ea0088fda214b9102e33ac60b27ca9b4c2172
…
The survivor, Michael a 27-year-old from Pennant Hills, told police they had entered the drain in Moverly Road, Kingsford, about one kilometre from where they were washed into the ocean. Holly Legge, 21, and Dwaine Larrossa, 25, were 50 metres underground, spray-painting murals in stormwater tunnels at Sydney's Lurline Bay, in January 2008. Inspector Eddie Bosch said the group had been drinking alcohol and spraying graffiti inside the drain last night when they heard the sound of rushing water. Sydney received half its daily rainfall while the trio were in the drain, sending flooding waters down it at up to 3.9 metres a second.
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https://preview.redd.it/pql1yk1kyqkc1.png?width=945&format=png&auto=webp&s=a56b19d0bd373599390ade6b8b10d89730b8f18a
"They spent about half an hour doing the artwork, not that far from the entrance," he said. "Then they've heard a noise and suddenly the water is upon them and they've washed all the way to Lurline Bay." They smashed into steel bars at the end of the drain but the 27-year-old slipped through. "He's just got a little scratch on his hip," Inspector Bosch said.
Inspector Bosch said police identified the young man and woman who died and notified their families. "The girl was a 22-year-old from St Peters and the man was 25 from Pennant Hills," Inspector Bosch said."We had about 15 to 20 minutes of torrential rain last night - it was incredibly heavy. They probably wouldn't have heard anything until the water came.
It had been a sunny and dry day but the weather quickly deteriorated.Mr. Malinowski described hearing a "noise like an earthquake'' before a rush of storm water thundered through the underground drain, knocking all three off their feet. Caught without warning, they were swept toward the ocean and pounded against a metal grill about 2m in diameter covering the outlet into the sea.
Pictures of actual weather on January 20, 2008 in Sydney area.
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https://preview.redd.it/7mtqlb9qyqkc1.png?width=665&format=png&auto=webp&s=229948dd8c0f39d803e5980784a63ac99c7b53cd
Michael washed up against the drain's grille and managed to squeeze through but his friends drowned. Rumor had it that Michael had visited these tunnels many times before and knew there was one bar missing on the grille but only in one certain location that was impossible to find in the chaos if you did not have previous knowledge of the gap. His two friends had not been there and would not know about the hole in the bars.
Heavy rain from a storm suddenly filled the drain with water, trapping and carrying them east to the ocean. It was some time before 5.30pm the storm hit with torrential rain, and a rush of water swept the three explorers off their feet, carrying them through the tunnels for at least a kilometre towards the ocean. By the time they struck the outlet, Holly and a 25-year-old man were dead. Incredibly, their friend, a 27-year-old graffiti artist from Pennant Hills, survived. He was conscious when he hit the grate, and squeezed himself amid thrashing waves through bent bars little wider than a man's shoulder. Holly Legge, 22, lost her life on January 20. She and Dwayne La Rossa, 25, died after their bodies were caught on bars at the drain's barred entrance at Lurline Bay.
The drain outlet measures 2m by 2m with about 100mm between the bars, some which were bent, but the lifeguards who tried it afterwards were able to squeeze through on one side, (on bar bent or missing, se picture beginning of post). Rumors had it that Michael had visited the fortress before and knew about the grate and that it was possible to exit on one side but that his two friends who allegedly hadn’t been there before didn´t know there was a possible way out on one side. Local lifeguard Matthew Thistlethewaite says the man had a lucky escape. "It would have been extremely difficult," he said. "There would've been stormwater running down the drain into the ocean. There also would have been waves coming into the drain from the rising tide."
A local boy, Luke Simmons, 17, was watching the ocean from his South Coogee back window when he spotted the man in the water, waving for help. A police spokesman said the 27-year-old was "very lucky" to suffer only minor injuries when he was washed into the bay. "Physically he's very good, he hardly got a scratch on him. "He was able to give police a coherent view of what happened." "He managed to wave his arms around and some residents across the other side of the bay have seen him in trouble," Inspector Bosch said. "They've got on their surfboards and gone across and literally saved his life," Inspector Bosch said.
Michael was saved by father and son surfers who saw him waving desperately in pounding seas off Lurline Bay, near Maroubra. Luke and his father Steve rushed down with surfboards went out about 50-100 meters and then pulled the man to shore. “When I got out there, I realised that this guy was completely drunk," he told the ABC. "He was acting really, really drunk and I could smell it on his breath. I had to physically grab his arm and strap the board to him to make sure that he didn't fall off." (the board)
When the man climbed out of the water he "just panicked", his father, Steve Simmons, told the Nine Network. "He ran straight round to the drain on the other side and he realised his two friends were dead." Michael threatened to throw himself back into the water. Steve Simmons told Channel Nine the man had immediately run back to the drain, to learn that his companions were dead. “He was just distraught on the rock ledge next to the situation where they were and we just had to drag him back away from it, otherwise he would have been back in the drink.”
The male survivor, who was already being pulled onto the rocks by local residents on surfboards when the helicopter arrived, appeared traumatised. ''We had plenty of spectators on the cliff and the friend of the deceased in close proximity,'' Mr Christensen said. ''Obviously he was in a distressed state and he did make threats at one stage to throw himself (back) into the water, and you get the risk of him dragging others in with him.''
Lifeguards Peter Halco and Paul Moffat.were on duty at Maroubra Beach in the summer of 2008 when they were called to Lurline Bay amid reports a surfer was in trouble. But when they arrived on jet ski they discovered two people trapped and knotted together behind the bars of a stormwater drain. (Some reports said they arrived as a rescue team 6:30 pm but other articles stated the storm hit at around 7.00 pm so that isn´t consistent with the timeline)
Mr Moffat and Mr Halco jumped into the raging water without hesitation, risking their lives in a 2m-plus swell to retrieve the bodies. Returning to the site for the first time since the accident yesterday, Mr Moffat said that day was permanently etched into his mind. "I still think if we were there a bit earlier we could have done more," he said. "Things can change so quickly. The day the accident happened, it was perfect. We had 20,000 people at Maroubra. Next thing you know this storm came through and flooded the drains."
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https://preview.redd.it/u5p4ycyazqkc1.png?width=566&format=png&auto=webp&s=8f451c3dff83b89a38bd72cbfe82af06a31d7740
Picture: retrieving bodies. Not sure if this has anything to do with the case but was found on a RIP website for Flaps and Banish.
Lifeguards Peter Halcro and Paul Moffatt were also called to Lurline Bayand arrived by jetski. They found the drain and braved the clash of waves and stormwater to slip through the bars and recover the bodies of the survivor's friends. Local lifeguard Matthew Thistlethewaite says the man had a lucky escape. "It would have been extremely difficult," he said. "There would've been stormwater running down the drain into the ocean. There also would have been waves coming into the drain from the rising tide."
One of the lifeguards who retrieved the bodies from the drain, Peter Halcro, says the conditions inside were dangerous and terrifying. "When we were actually inside … the whole drain was going dark, with the surf pounding up through the drain," Mr Halcro said. "Everything went dark for a few seconds for us while the bodies were just floating around. There was also stormwater coming out the other way, so we were dealing with dirty water and large surf." They thought at first that there may have been three people dead. Clothes had been ripped off by the ferocity of the water. But there was just a man's body floating with the waves and a woman's tangled around the bars.
Lifeguards Peter Halcro and Paul Moffat forced their way into the drain after the trapped pair, risking their own lives as pounding water and large surf threatened to take them as well. Moffat had been pinned to the outlet bars for a time. "Water was coming in and out," said Mr Moffat. "It was dark in there and a bit eerie." They recovered the man first, and his body was winched from near the entrance to the drain. But that was too dangerous for the rescue helicopter to attempt a second time, so the lifeguards swam the woman's body 50 metres into the bay.
Mr Moffatt, who helped work the bodies out through the bars, towed the body of the woman out to sea so the rescue helicopter could winch it to a nearby rock ledge. He said the recovery of the bodies of the West Pennant Hills man and St Peters woman was one of the trickiest operations he had ever been involved in. Westpac Life Saver rescue crewman Brett Christensen was lowered down by helicopter cable just outside the storm drain, and fastened the woman's body to another cable before it was winched to paramedics waiting on the cliff.
Before they could repeat the procedure for the body of the male, they were pounded by rising seas. A large set of waves came through, pushing us up against the grate and we were underwater for a short period of time,'' Mr Christensen told AAP. Once the two-metre waves receded, they successfully retrieved the second body. The entire operation took eight minutes, he said.
..
Mr Malinowski, who is known by the graffiti tag “Mik”, left it to his younger brother to speak on his behalf as the deaths underground were discussed on graffiti culture websites in Australia and overseas. One message posted on a Tasmanian website said simply “RIP Flaps and Banish”, the tag names used by Ms Legge, who went to St George TAFE, and Mr La Rossa.
Graffiti squad police confirmed yesterday that Mr La Rossa was known to the unit, with past offences ranging from drugs, goods in custody and assault. As police continue to investigate how the trio came to be trapped five storeys underground and whether criminal charges may arise other than trespass, Adam Malinowski said it was the first time that his brother and two friends had ventured into the drain.
Adam Malinowski, who said he too was close friends with Mr Legge and Mr La Rossa, fought to hold back tears when he said the group were “artists” and not part of the Sydney Cave Clan, a group that explore tunnels.
“I guess my brother is taking it worse out of all my friends,” he said.“He has to deal with the fact he is the only one who survived and his friends perished. He went back and tried to save them, but it was too late.
“The graffiti they were doing [inside the drainage outlet] was true art. It was like a mural.
“It just happened that they chose to do it at the wrong place, wrong time. It just happened in an instant. [Michael said] there was a big sound … like thunder. He’s probably thinking why was he the only one to survive.” “He is still traumatised, he is still grieving over the loss of his two friends and has had some counselling. It is the first time that someone close to Michael has died, so he is feeling terrible. You just can’t imagine how the families are feeling,” Adam Malinowski said.
Sunday’s disastrous venture follows encounters with the law by Michael Malinowski that included an unsuccessful attempt by police to close his Newtown paint shop or restrict the types of sprays he could sell.
On April 4, 2006, he was arrested while painting on a wall of the M2 Motorway at Beecroft. He was convicted, fined $400 and ordered to pay $67 court costs. On December 12, 2006, he was convicted for selling spray paint to a minor, fined $650 and also ordered to pay $67 court costs. In an interview with The Sun-Herald after his shop opened in 2005, Michael Malinowski said he was determined to educate the area’s youth about the do’s and don’ts of “street art”. He was responding to concerns that his business would become a one-stop shop for vandals.
But he said: “There will always be a minority who do the wrong thing, who would probably do the wrong thing if the shop was here or not … it’s our responsibility to try to educate people to use these products for art and not vandalism.”
After his conviction for vandalising the M2 wall he said: “I pleaded guilty because I did the wrong thing. I don’t really want to say any more. I’d prefer it if you didn’t write anything. This shop is my livelihood.”
The following seems to be a personal account of what happened as their own personal view found comment on this YouTube video; Dseeva & Kaos - RIP Banish - YouTube
The day that banish & Holly died from being left in the storm water drains at Lurline Bay off Sydney's Eastern Beaches on Sunday January 20/1/2008. Weather conditions where not suited at all to be going anywhere near a drain let alone to enter one. It was The season time of AKA EI Niño the Antichrist weather storms surrounding hovering Around Sydney.
On Friday "Plan" AKA Mick owner of the graffiti shop "567" on King St Newtown. He closed the shop 567 King St and he had started drinking long before closing, and did not stop for the whole weekend.
On Sunday he went to Banish's house and telling the crew that "Ive got the maddest spot to paint, I've been there lot's of time's, it's a crazy place for graffiti artists to paint. Banish & Holly said we'll come with you & got paint together to do graffiti burners & jumped in he's car. Plan was still drinking & drunk at the time. ("Plan" aka Mick had lost his license for drink driving 3 times already and still without one before driving to Lurline Bay stormwater drains).
He told the police that got a taxi, to save his arse, being drunk still at this time. It was a miracle to be alive going through 2 km of storm water tunnel without one cut or scatch on himself ??? and to walk out of the hospital that night. He lost's all the key's to 567 King St shop & car keys, some weeks later on, he got the car towed away from near the manhole in Moverly Rd Kingsford ect Coogee.
The reason he said all this to the police, that he caught a taxi, etc was. to save his arse, because he has been caught three times for drink driving. He knew the exit to the storm water drains, (the Missing bar). Though it seems Banish and Holly where not told. They walked through the tunnels all the way tagging, when they got to the end they started doing pieces, at the entrance of lurline bay.
Plan has always been known to Dog out his mates, on two previous occasions. One on Redfern station with Kaos and myself, he was drunk the transits grabbed Kaos, I turned around and "Plan"aka Mick had already jumped on a train and dogged it, the second time a few boys were up at Kings Cross and got into a fight and i turned to see "Plan"aka Mick running up the street, not willing to help just running away like a coward. I've always known Banish to be a loyal soldier and when he sees a female (or mate) in distress he will go to their aid. Because they had never been to that place (the drains) before Banish and Holly didn't know the exit point or the missing bar factor like "Plan" aka Mick did and he had done the same dog act that i've seen on two previous occasions. When this happened he just swam out to a surfboard rider and the Surfboard rider quoted "he was so drunk, he couldn't even hold onto my surfboard" and Mick said to him, "they're (Banish and Holly) there at the entrance".
That night when he went home from hospital i already had called some friends knowing that Banish and Holly died. I rang his home phone, and spoke to his brother, he told me he was unable to speak to anyone, i told him to put him on the phone, or i was coming around to your house right now. I then spoke to "Plan" aka Mick on the house phone, and i asked him what had happened, he told me how he drove the car there and he was drunk and he shouldn't have went there, and that he walked through the storm water drains all the way to near the exit point where the bars are and started doing pieces. When the water started rushing down and they couldn't go back from the entrance and as previously what "Plan" aka Mick had always done, he Dogged it and slipped through the bars and left Banish and Holly to fend for themselves.
He then went on to cry on the phone, he was all emotional, bla bla. he then said he couldnt live with himself, for what he had done, how he had killed them. He was all emotional and grieving, (playing on my feelings) and that i felt what he was giving me was not Real, they were false, and he was only thinking about himself. He said bullshit like i am not going to open the shop for weeks, it was only two days later he reopened the shop.
The Coroners report said that no one could Physically survive going through the start to the end of the storm water drains, imagine going through two kms of storm water drains at 60 - kms hour, and didnt even have a Scratch on him, and walked out of hospital that day, without his phone,wallet, car keys and shop keys. In my eyes he's the most Cowardly person i've met in my whole life. i do not talk to him, i do not go to his shop. I've been to his shop and sadly trouble started and he called the police on me and i got life barred.
It's very hard to repeat the story and to keep telling people what happened. Hopefully through facebook people will now know what really happened and now they Banish and Holly can rest in peace and everyone can be aware of the type of (DOG) person "Plan" aka Mick of 567 King St is. Thanks and regards Icee 210 P.I.C crews. (GOD BLESS BANISH AND HOLLY).
Sources:
Inside the Fortress: paying a high price for thrills (smh.com.au)
Farewell for storm drain graffiti artist (theage.com.au)
2 sydney graffiti writers die in drain tragedy – WHAT YOU WRITE .COM (wordpress.com)
Graffiti excursion gone wrong is 'message to thrill seekers' (archive.org)
Drain survivor in graffiti business (smh.com.au)
Graffiti artists drown in drain (archive.org)
Drain survivor 'was completely drunk' - ABC News
Coroner wants cult graffiti website closed The Australian
Graffiti gang should be probed: coroner (smh.com.au)
Deadly drain may be closed off - ABC News (archive.org)
A Few Australian Drains - Page 2 (urbexforums.com) urban exploring the tunnels
Graffiti artists washed down drain to deaths - NZ Herald
Stormwater survivor may be charged - ABC News
Return to death pipe – honour for Maroubra Beach rescue attempt Daily Telegraph two lifeguards on duty that day
Archives - UrbanTwilight in the media - Urban Twilight
Investigate the Cave Clan: deaths inquest - ABC News
RiP Flaps and Banish 2008 Acidental Drownings at Fortress … Flickr
Art Talk: Graffiti drain survivor: 'I wish I had died' (thebluerider.blogspot.com)
Storms in Sydney – 20 January 2008 – north west nsw severe weather (wilgatree.com) pictures of weather on January 20 2008.
Spray Paint, Art Supplies & Hip Hop Specialists – 567King the store that the survivor then 27 year old Malinowski had.
Dseeva & Kaos - RIP Banish - YouTube some images from Flaps and Banish paintings. And of them both.