Tagalog about liar quotes
Just venting
2024.05.19 00:17 JakeyDonkeyBrains Just venting
I had to call a national vendor, you’d all know the one if I mentioned it. For services for a customer. Made the customer wait 10 minutes to get a quote for him.(handle time is already blown at that point) When I finally got him on the phone I ask for the quote which we obviously need and he says his company(which I have used several locations for all over the country without issue) said they don’t give out pricing information for their services provided to their partnered accounts which just seems shady, it’s not like they can hide how much they charge. Supervisor told me to just push it through and notate it no big deal.
Issue starts when he wants to perform a bunch of random services he says are mandatory that we do not cover for our customer and I tell him, we don’t do that, the request we sent over is what we cover. I assume he gets some commission or something. He calls me a liar after that. So I inform him not to speak to me that way otherwise we will file an internal complaint through our company about him.
He says and I quote “Oh okay, I’ll just let you speak to me as disrespectfully as you like” and I just sat there for a while before saying “Sir, you just called me a liar about 10 seconds ago, these are recorded lines” he got off the phone really quick after that and started telling the customer, I guess assuming I couldn’t hear him, how we were refusing to help him. The customer of course was on speaker and heard the whole conversation so was on my side about it and we found a solution not involving that company.
Like what reason would I have to lie about our procedures? Does he think I am personally paying for this? Does he think anyone who works at any call center anywhere is just making off the cuff decisions?
Long story short after back to back calls for 9 hours I got to stay nearly 45 minutes late arguing with someone who wasn’t even a customer telling them to just do their job.
Another day another brain cell lost.
submitted by JakeyDonkeyBrains to callcentres [link] [comments]
Issue starts when he wants to perform a bunch of random services he says are mandatory that we do not cover for our customer and I tell him, we don’t do that, the request we sent over is what we cover. I assume he gets some commission or something. He calls me a liar after that. So I inform him not to speak to me that way otherwise we will file an internal complaint through our company about him.
He says and I quote “Oh okay, I’ll just let you speak to me as disrespectfully as you like” and I just sat there for a while before saying “Sir, you just called me a liar about 10 seconds ago, these are recorded lines” he got off the phone really quick after that and started telling the customer, I guess assuming I couldn’t hear him, how we were refusing to help him. The customer of course was on speaker and heard the whole conversation so was on my side about it and we found a solution not involving that company.
Like what reason would I have to lie about our procedures? Does he think I am personally paying for this? Does he think anyone who works at any call center anywhere is just making off the cuff decisions?
Long story short after back to back calls for 9 hours I got to stay nearly 45 minutes late arguing with someone who wasn’t even a customer telling them to just do their job.
Another day another brain cell lost.
2024.05.15 19:17 lambchopsuey The SGI-USA's generational bottleneck
One of the fascinating aspects of outsider reports and analysis is what they see. Given that at this point (1992) the internet was not yet widely available/accessible, this sort of thing would have been difficult to find. And of course SGI wasn't ever going to tell us the truth!
This will show you that SGI-USA (then called "NSA") was failing in recruiting far earlier than perhaps most of us in the US realized. SGI in the USA was basically a flash in the pan; it fizzled fast; and now it's just that rank stale smoke smell that lingers long after the fire's been put out.
This comes from Cults and Nonconventional Religious Groups: A Collection of Outstanding Dissertations and Monographs, "Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism and the Soka Gakkai in America: The Ethos of a New Religious Movement", Jane Hurst, 1992, pp. 150-151. Jane Hurst has some interesting research out there; while she tends toward being uncritically supportive of SGI, anyone who is making statistics available is a big help.
This youthfulness is largely reflected in the early organization's origins in the American servicemen who returned from being stationed in Japan with their Japanese war-brides - those servicemen tended to be young and from a variety of ethnicities and backgrounds, as the draft was still in effect during that time period (ended March 1975). In addition, the first General Director of the US organization, Masayasu Sadanaga, initially targeted college campuses for recruitment by offering lectures on Buddhism. Sadanaga changed his name to George M. Williams in 1972, in obedience to the (short-lived) direction back then of Japanese leaders adopting American-sounding names (first AND last) in order to appeal more broadly to non-Japanese Americans.
Figure 10 (I'll get to that line in another post.)
Ewps - Here's the REAL Figure 10.
Most of the original "Oriental members" were those Japanese war-brides, whose first efforts to recruit new SGI members were directed toward other Japanese individuals.
Ego Era" and "50K Liars of Just-Us" (everybody wants to forget the epic fail that was the "Gandhi, King, Ikeda" exhibit), has made the slightest difference in this demographic disaster. In fact, preparing for the 2018 "50K" event, SGI-USA likely had only 2,451 members in the 12-35 (or perhaps 11-39) age group, just 9% of the most generous SGI-USA active membership total (~30,000).
submitted by lambchopsuey to sgiwhistleblowers [link] [comments]
This will show you that SGI-USA (then called "NSA") was failing in recruiting far earlier than perhaps most of us in the US realized. SGI in the USA was basically a flash in the pan; it fizzled fast; and now it's just that rank stale smoke smell that lingers long after the fire's been put out.
This comes from Cults and Nonconventional Religious Groups: A Collection of Outstanding Dissertations and Monographs, "Nichiren Shoshu Buddhism and the Soka Gakkai in America: The Ethos of a New Religious Movement", Jane Hurst, 1992, pp. 150-151. Jane Hurst has some interesting research out there; while she tends toward being uncritically supportive of SGI, anyone who is making statistics available is a big help.
NSA members in the 1960s and 1970s were young (52% below age 30), more than half female (59%), and from a variety of occupations and social classes.The Baby Boom generation were at most age 19 in, say, 1965 and at most age 24 in 1970.
This youthfulness is largely reflected in the early organization's origins in the American servicemen who returned from being stationed in Japan with their Japanese war-brides - those servicemen tended to be young and from a variety of ethnicities and backgrounds, as the draft was still in effect during that time period (ended March 1975). In addition, the first General Director of the US organization, Masayasu Sadanaga, initially targeted college campuses for recruitment by offering lectures on Buddhism. Sadanaga changed his name to George M. Williams in 1972, in obedience to the (short-lived) direction back then of Japanese leaders adopting American-sounding names (first AND last) in order to appeal more broadly to non-Japanese Americans.
The percentage of Oriental members steadily decreased as more and more white and black Americans joined NSA as seen in Figure 10, above.
Ewps - Here's the REAL Figure 10.
Most of the original "Oriental members" were those Japanese war-brides, whose first efforts to recruit new SGI members were directed toward other Japanese individuals.
NSA members came from the major religious traditions of Protestantism (30%), Catholicism (30%), and Judaism (6%). At the time these 1971 statistics were compiled, all areas of American society. By 1983, the age span was even more broad, with 11% of the members age 50 and above, 62% ages 30-49, 24% ages 20-29, and 3% below age 19.For reference, here are the age ranges for the existing generations in 1983:
- Greatest: Ages 59-82
- Silent: Ages 38-58
- Baby Boomers: Ages 19-37
- Generation X: Ages 4-18
- Generation Y (Millennials): Age 3 or younger.
- 11% of the SGI-USA membership was MUCH OLDER than Baby Boomers
- 62% was either Baby Boom generation or older (though younger than that oldest group)
- 24% was Baby Boomers
- 3% was younger than Baby Boomers.
IN 1983!!
Notice how this affirms the demographic estimate from this other research: "Soka Gakkai in America": Little appeal/interest outside of Baby Boom generationTake a look at Table 4.It's the same problem happening in Japan within the Soka Gakkai:
Specifically, the Age cohort (%) category.
For the Converts, 26% are older than Baby Boomers; 61% are Baby Boomers. That makes 87% Boomer and older. Only 14% are younger than Boomers.
No wonder SGI-USA is aging and dying, with these kinds of numbers!
We are seeing, like, 90% Baby Boomers in the group photos we've looked at.
The pictures back this up.
Also, this comment by an SGI-USA leader a few years ago during Minoru Harada's visit (anyone know what year that was?):
They [top SGI-USA leaders] then went off on how when we create these big-ass meetings, we shouldn't have to look into the crowd and see, and I quote, "A bunch of old-ass motherfuckers" The words of my "superiors", not mine. I think this is when they brought up the idea of 50K to my co-leaders and me. Source"Old-ass motherfuckers" is all they have. How 'bout showing a little of that appreciation and gratitude SGI bangs on about??
Worse, "old-ass motherfuckers" is all SGI-USA can get.
Further, again referring to Table 4, SGI-USA's membership is solidly 2/3 women. That means it's going to be very difficult for women in SGI-USA to find mates to marry, which means childlessness will be more of a norm than an exception. Child-free is a valid and respect-worthy decision, don't get me wrong, but a religion's most reliable source of younger members is its own membership's children. Since SGI-USA's female members don't feel any responsibility or obligation to bear multiple children (like those poor, stupid Mormon sheepwomen do), there won't be any next generation to take over.
There's a reason so many religions have traditionally exhorted their membership to have lots of babies, why they condemn birth control and abortion. A big part of it is to keep their own numbers up! Source
On the other hand, aging is relentless. In terms of the Soka Gakkai's membership demographics, the "volume zone" where most members fall is the baby boomer generation who joined by the 1960s. They are now late elderly. In the past, the management of centers in various places was handled by the "Gajokai" consisting of Young Men's Division members, but it is no longer possible to secure personnel. Instead, in 2009, the Soka Gakkai launched the "Ojokai'' consisting of "middle-aged divisions,'' scolding them as "young people in their 50s'' and rushing to mobilize them. SourceGOOD LUCK!
For perspective, note that SGI-USA was managing to recruit just "1,000 per YEAR" - including all ages - between 1991 and 1999. Eight years of only 1,000 members added per year, with no accounting for the deaths or defections. Were the years after that more successful, recruiting-wise? I doubt it.From 2018:
[Then-SGI-USA's public-relations director for the East Coast Bill] Aiken says SGI-USA has attracted about 1000 new members per year for the past eight years. - from 1999. Only 1,000 new members - across the ENTIRE 360+ million-person strong USA - in an ENTIRE year. And this extremely low level of success for EIGHT YEARS IN A ROW!! Source
In recent years, the number of young Soka Gakkai members has been decreasing rapidly . Looking at the participants in the simultaneous broadcasts and roundtable discussions, the majority are of the grandparents' generation, with only a small number of young people in their 20s and 30s, and the number of teenage boys and girls is almost an endangered species .And "Soka Gakkai is like an old people's club":
Therefore, what I am interested in is the population of Soka Gakkai by age group. This time, I would like to estimate the current population of Soka Gakkai by age , based on information I have personally seen and heard and verification from others . Please note that this estimate is very rough.
First, the largest number of Soka Gakkai members are baby boomers (born between 1947 and 1949 [Japan's Baby Boom]). This seems almost certain considering the history of the development of Soka Gakkai .
Also, the total number of members has already been verified by many people, and is estimated to be around 3 to 5 million people. This time we assume about 4 million people .
And this is what I heard directly from a staff member at headquarters last year, who said , `` The number of activists decreases by about 1/3 with each generation.'' I think this is a reasonable rate of decline that can be felt by looking at participants in simultaneous broadcasts and roundtable discussions. It seems that members who have stopped being activists are less likely to have their children join, so this time we will use a value of 1/3 per generation as the member decline rate .
Also, regarding the number of years it takes for generational change, the average age for men and women to give birth to their first child is currently 30 years old. Considering that the average age of childbearing for both men and women when the baby boomer generation was born was 24 years old, and that there are cases where not only the first child but also the second and third children are born, the generational shift will take 30 years. Let's calculate it as if it would take a year . In that case, the annual membership attrition rate would be (1/3)1/30 = 0.964, or 3.6% .
It is unclear when this trend of declining membership started, but this time we will assume that it started in the year following the baby boom generation (1950). Source
Regarding the problem of a decline in Komeito votes, or in other words, a decline in active Soka Gakkai members, many people concerned point out that the primary cause is the aging of Soka Gakkai members. The enthusiastic members of the generation who supported the growth of the society along with charismatic Honorary President Daisaku Ikeda are now elderly across the board. Most of the current new members are second- or third-generation members who join because their parents are members of Soka Gakkai, and they are not very enthusiastic about Soka Gakkai's activities. Today, many of Soka Gakkai's daily events are even derided by insiders as "like an old people's party."And a more recent report (this year):
Back about 20 years ago a good friend and good guy, now deceased, from ChiTown, was commissioned by SGI Central Command to survey every contactable member of SGI in every district in America. The number he came up with was 5% of the number of Gohonzon passed out since, I guess whenever Gohonzon started to be passed out. The total number was about a million give or take, 20 years ago. These were contactable people, not practicing members. I remember going through lists of people we had on the books and trying to see if they could be reached. So the number we came up with was reported. Hearing nothing about it, I happened to run into my friend at some event at Soka U. He mentioned that he did the survey, and gave me the results. I believe he told me the facts. (Not everyone who practiced was a lying asshole.) So about 20 years ago SGI had about 50,000 “contactable“ people who had received Gohonzon. My estimate that about half of that number had zero interest in SGI. Thus 20 years ago, SGI had about 25,000 members still interested in SGI in some capacity. I think it’s the same number today. (2500 districts x 10=25,000.) Like I said before I went to FNCC twice last year, and everyone, including me, were old zany seniors. Neither conference was for old people. Conclusion: SGI is a senior citizen support group. When I joined in1969, we were all hippie ish, rejecting all the old shit, looking for something new and hip. Now SGI looks like old shit. SourceAnd another (this year or last):
When I joined 50+ years ago the ratio of youth to MD and WD was about 80:20. Now it's the reverse. Our goal is to move steadily back to a youth focus again. SourceExcept it's obvious that SGI-USA doesn't HAVE "20% youth":
Youth? They've got to be fooling themselves!!! When I was still with the SGI last February (2023), I went to the kosen-rufu gongyo meeting at the center in my area. Mind you, the state I live in closed its center in 2021 for undisclosed reasons. That aside, the one I went to was in another state, and at that meeting, they had no byakuren, Gajokai, or Soka Group in attendance. Additionally, the only youth at the meeting were a few small children. SourceThe PROBLEM was already evident in 1983 - and none of the SGI-USA's big "Recruit-Youth-A-Thons", like "Victory over Violence" and "Rock The
I feel that SGI is out of touch with anyone who’s younger than 60. The leaders are retired, have a lot of time on their hands and completely disregard the fact that people may work or have families. For young people it’s the old people taking nonsense. Source
Ikeda could have preserved a "youthful" Soka Gakkai by passing the Presidency to a younger candidate, but Ikeda refused, because Ikeda was too focused on and obsessed with HIMSELF - his power, his prestige, his wealth, his status, his fame, his renown, HIM becoming leader of the world, his PERMANENCY, and his legacy. He refused to let anyone else come anywhere CLOSE to the power and control - he greedily, selfishly clutched it all tightly to himself and refused to share.SGI-USA has never managed to recover from that demographic bottleneck that happened no later than 1983.
THAT is why the Ikeda cult Soka Gakkai/SGI is aging and dying. It's ALL Ikeda's fault, Ikeda's responsibility. IKEDA DID THAT.
Some "mentor". Source
2024.05.15 16:18 DivineSperm MDP : Scourge of the Islands
MDP(Most Demonic Perverts).
They will repeat “Join us” until you go insane. What throws these deranged psychopaths into a frenzy is when their evil venomous words do not bother, reach or harm the person
Each and every night, MDP conducts an air raid of High Altitude Pseudo Satellites, swarming the atmosphere, hijacking actual satellites to spy for their human trafficking and prostitution organization.
Each MDP facility contains a male homosexual drill instructor training prostitutes on how to capture people, how to trick people into signing a contract.
Do not let these extremist radical terrorists force you into suicide or anything, hold out! The more that are resilient, the quicker this will be resolved.
Once these radical terrorist biohackers successfully causes an individual to commit suicide or die in anyway, they burst from the persons dead body, giggling and laughing as they kill humans for fun and infects another person as if they were a horrific virus.
They bulge and twitch the persons eye lids as a sign of their technology’s existence within the person. If you notice any of these signs in either you or your family, you and/or them have been hijacked by biohackers.
This is an outbreak of radical terrorists in high platform airships and drones, illegally eavesdropping and trafficking humans into sex prostitution utilizing electromagnets, radio waves, and radiation
They can force a person to cough with sonic weaponry, imitating illnesses on a wide scale for control and as well, to assimilate identities illegally.
Don’t believe me! Research it!
STDs are being used to keep a person stuck within their prostitution rings.
MDP is an entire organization of drug addicts with advanced technology trafficking humans. They are all the same, against the people, not one of these demon-lovers are on the people’s side.
Cesspool homosexual orgies with drugs and STDs are systematically given to new cult members to keep them stuck in one place.
Whatever you do, do NOT care about them. They will try to use your empathy to have you kill yourselves.
Don’t panic! The hostiles are on Debilitating/Sedative drugs. Stop your bitching and fight your way through it until the threat is resolved. Keep relaxed. Let your friends, family, and kids know! Awareness destroys their recon
It’s NOT the “Illuminati”.
Keep Calm/Be Confident and Live.
Study magnets/Electromagnets.
You are not missing out on anything if someone or a group is pressing on you. Go do you! Do not let anyone influence you!
Their command centers are hidden within some call centers (Do not be paranoid!). It is urgent that you stay on the surface if you work around them. Do not let them systematically control or allure you into signing a contract to an unknown authority to make love with their merchandise in plain sight as spies or to be involved in illegal reconnaissance operations.
As long as you do not sign a contract for, and I quote, “everything you always wanted!” You will be fine.
YOU ARE NOT INVITED! Do not submit to any of their offers! They can alter words in the mind with their weaponized drones.
Stop Feeding This World Wide Threat!
Stop Surrendering because it’s too much to deal with! They are on high class drugs nearly 24/7 everyday!
Reclaim your identity or have it taken away by a criminal organization!
Non-lethal weapons modified to be lethal weapons!
Their captive women/children are their front line against men! They WILL try to force you to kneel to the their dictator, Solih, the shapeshifting hybrid. You will then be susceptible and subjected to heavier sonic attacks as well as abuses.
Do Not Quit! Do NOT Surrender!
Observe them for one year if you do not believe me. Take notes, keep quiet and carry on with your own personal life in the meanwhile. You will take notice of their patterns.
MDP terrorists are pretending to be schools as part of their scripts! They murder doctors and healers of any kind if they do not submit to being trafficked into human/sex trafficking facilities/homes!
They are not Authority of any kind, unless you surrender and you sign their contract and accept them as your handlers.
THIS IS NOT A GAME!
Stall them out! Do not move!
I can’t believe I am stating this. What is written below is not intended to be satire or a joke. This has actually contributed to their narcissism, their abuses, and mass murders
Stop masturbating to these terrorists! They are raping and abusing you and your fellow citizens, HEAVILY! Your fellow Maldivians are being raped over sonar hearing that only YOU can hear, and you masturbate to the Maldivians moaning, being raped??
You do NOT need to sign a contract to the MDP using sonar hearing to be allowed to marry, be intimate, or are subjected and forced to “marry” their trained terrorists.
They are paid liars and spies that trains prostitutes how to screw their targets exactly the way their targets want. This is done to have the target “test” the human traffickers prostitutes before they sign to keep them. Instead, you are selling yourself into human/sex/drug trafficking rings
Do not accept their “lust” they do have spies in person that are drug abuse/humans traffickers. They will bribe with sex and “free housing” then make you sign your life away, with you under the impression that you are going to some brothel or “sex club”. You will be susceptible to extreme abuses revolving around rape, drugs, and traumatic physical and mental abuses. Sound Proof Your Homes!
THEY ARE ALL THE SAME!!
They use prostitution to allure their new victims! DO NOT BELIEVE THEM!
The MDP consists of homosexual elitists, human traffickers, terrorists, Eavesdroppers/Spies utilizing sonic weapons/sonar hearing weapons to euthanize/Traffic and enslave the general public. DO NOT GO!
They will go to war with federal officials/agents to keep their bodies enslaved!
Their cults authority are primarily shapeshifting Reptillian-Jinn-Human hybrids that are seeking “World Domination utilizing Sonic weapons” in an attempt to force the innocent and the vulnerable into surrendering themselves to human/sex/drug trafficking ring.
They are not the police!
Spies are very obvious to point out!
They are illegally eavesdropping families to extract their young. Their groups primarily consists of autistic and the mentally ill, that abuses a series of class A drugs to traffick and create new slaves.
Do NOT sign the contract! It’s ridiculous! They have two contracts, one for you to surrender, and the other for you to contract yourself into surrendering voluntarily. They also wordplay aggressively.
( I am disclosing the depths of their criminal business for abusing sonar hearing technology to assimilate identities, killing ruthlessly while induced under highly potent drugs, mass kidnappings, weapons, and prostitution/pedophilia. You will be stripped of all privileges and rights to these lifelong detention facilities!)
The threat progresses like humans, but the hostiles are progressing entirely against your person.
They are trying to steal your entire identity, do not sign the contract! Otherwise you will never make choices in your own lives again!
They look like everyday people, but do not be paranoid. Be aware of your surroundings and leave a way out for yourself if you are ever caught in a potentially dangerous situation. But do NOT be paranoid, delusional, or psychotic about it as not only would you be more susceptible to any abuses, your vulnerabilities may force you to make the wrong decisions. Man/woman up if you want to keep your own free self.
Do not give into extreme paranoia!
Most Demonic Perverts human trafficking networks has expanded. Be weary of unknown terrorists/individuals giving victims rides to parties, “mansions”, or a trip to the ghetto islands for drugs
They are not the police! They are not aliens!
They will use love to manipulate you.
Think of online scams or common pop up scams you would receive on your daily Internet commute. Same thing except, they want you to traffick yourself into a entrapment facility. Using various sexual exploitation tactics, infinite gaslighting strategies to force negative emotion to their targets and threats a long with actions of inhumane abuse cycles in hopes of subduing their targets
If you accept any bribes and sign the contract offered, you will be paying taxes to a criminal organization/network, times the current state and/or government taxes you already currently pay for, along with any other extra expenses that will occur if you sign the contract.
Ex: Government Taxes + Criminal Organizations Taxes = Taxes x2 or more since you will not be in control of your currency any longer.
If you do not see actual law enforcement individuals in front of your physical self, DO NOT GET ON THE GROUND! They are NOT any authority to the people outside of their trafficking homes!
Drug abuse/Addictions attracts these hostiles. They WILL psychologically trick you into subduing yourself.
Do not be fooled by their fake friendly appearances and smiles. You will be robbed!
Pay attention to your aiground horns! But do not panic!
They are NOT the government or federal agents. They are spies from criminal organizations worldwide!
If you do not believe me, then what I am speaking of may not not make any sense to you now. (Do your own research, don’t take only my word for it) But a great number of those who reads my news update will understand that we are dealing with outlaws that are mainly responsible for the random disappearances of children.
Be aware of homes with “No trespassing” signs, unusually high activity and surveillance cameras in ghetto islands.
They are not the MNDF/MPS/NASA/God/You/yourself/or anybody else you know. Even though some has defected and joined this horrific network full of criminals and pathological murderers, pretending to be friendly or family.
Global Human Trafficking Evolution
They want to ultimately farm your kids and sell them into prostitution!
Human traffickers will start a ground war to capture their victims and to keep spying on them with aircrafts.
Cyber ventriloquism/Sonar Hearing, common tactics.
This has been worsening since 2008.
The criminal agents will immediately disinform and satire this disclosure or any as if nothing was wrong or happening right now.
Educate yourselves to save yourselves! This is NOT a test from any governments within the security fields (MNDF, MPS or any other) though these organizations may or may not be involved, credible evidence is needed to prove that these organizations are apart of the worlds most inhumane experiments utilizing electromagnets and radiation to subdue any man or woman.
Disinformation campaigns are set up and used by the villainous organization to keep the public from knowing about their “spying” on various individuals around the world and from raising awareness on their secret experiment using electromagnets and a machine that rewrites the brain in a flash.
The threat mimics medical conditions to stay hidden. Very heavy human/sex trafficking organization and operations getting worse everyday.
This is NOT a special or a unique opportunity for anyone, do not fall for this! You will be chipped, trapped, and abused inhumanly like a wild animal.
They also possess disinformation campaign divisions made solely for the purposes of covering their trafficking and tracks.
The technologically driven human traffickers will preemptively meditate on murdering you if you do not reclaim your identity!
Do NOT surrender yourself to MDP! Traffickers are seeking your signature to lock you away inside a facility.
Do NOT play hero or games with extremists. They are studying every word, step, and actions you make. With the goal to either capture, subdue, or mind break an individual into harming theirselves and/or other’s.
The traffickers wagers that they can defect millions into trafficking the victims into their criminal networks/organization and facilities around the globe, the organization calls it “hiding bodies” utilizing the individuals past as their entire method to cause the person as much psychological harm as inhumanly possible.
Powerful electromagnetic radiation is beamed into the victims skull to send and receive data, bypassing the skull to access the brain as if it was a computer hard drive. The program is only to torture and ruin lives. If not forewarned about it, lives will be abducted, or killed secretly.
Traffickers can completely invade and compromise a person and force the victim into either surrendering theirselves to their abusers and never be seen again, or the victim is left with nothing, outstripped from jobs through 24/7 focus groups to psych a person out of a job and attempt to have their victims deconstruct theirselves and others around.
This is an everyday 24/7 torture system designed to traffick, kill, torture, and molest an individual.The traffickers breed with their brothers, sisters and other blood related individuals for experimental and pedophila is a major part of their cult, DO NOT BE FOOLED!
PEDOPHILIA, TORTURE, NECROPHILIA, RAPE! These are four pillars of the Most Demonic Perverts.
Silent/Covert inbreds are waging war against innocents
All out war with mankind on one side and Most Demonic Perverts on the other.
Hostiles are taking hostages secretly through aggression and various fear tactics. MDP terrorists can cut breathing with their weapons.
Love your spouses and who you are and they may spare you by moving on to someone else.
Protect yourselves with neodymium magnets!! Protect your brain with magnets! Hover the magnets over your head.
(This is NOT fake news, we have been compromised, completely and utterly compromised!)
DO NOT GO!!! There is nothing there that will benefit you!
MDP preys on any vulnerabilities that a human possess. Stay strong to those that are affected, investigations are becoming more widespread
They entrap individuals for experimental purposes in a room with 1 bathroom and 40+ prostitutes and drug addicts, and other mentally ill criminals who enjoys their jobs in systematically destroying human lives in the most inhuman and extreme ways.
They are lead by drag queen homosexuals with a goal to create slaves by converting them into homosexuals, making it easier to control individuals.
They also have these systematic gay orgies where they abuse a plethora of drugs (crack, meth, cocaine, scopolamine, etc) before severely abusing and raping a singular victim inhumanly. The victims were once a targeted individual before they gave up and accepted becoming a sacrifice for MDP.
If you are a new victim of these crimes, do as much research as possible and disclose, disclose, disclose. DO NOT MOVE TO VOICES THAT ARE NOT AROUND YOU!
Schizophrenia is NOT the reason due to the lack of evidence, proving that schizophrenia does not exist. Do not keep silent for this horrendous criminal network! They are all traffickers and they kill in the most inhumane way and call it their “fun”.
TLDR: MDP is a nefarious organization of drugged up lunatics. The are traffickers and are replicating theirselves to be your spouse, military officials, or any government identity to force and fool any person into trafficking theirselves into a criminal network through endless gaslighting through megaphone like devices that targets one individual at a time and projects their voices bypassing their targets auditory cortex. Once the drone targets a person, they stay on that person 24/7 everyday. If you are instructed to move to Winnipeg Canada or anywhere for bribes, sexual favors, money, and/or free housing through any means of transportation, Do Not Go! You are a victim of a class action crime that has gone out of hand. Do NOT give these criminals anymore power by giving yourself up to them. You did not win anything and being targeted by these drones means that they chose you to either traffick or to be murdered covertly using drones with electromagnetic weapons attachments and technology which allows sonic hearing that the MDP criminal organization network uses to communicate directly to one another without needing to use a phone. Captured victims are forced into unpaid labor and forced prostitution. The targeted victim will be missing and stored away within one of their run down homes/facilities, unable to escape or leave. The handlers forces their new members into various ritualistic initiations cycles within their cultist group kneel, to sniff up drugs.
Once captured, they immediately commence their routines of total control and exploitation of the fully captured person. The victims are broken down to less than nothing due to repeated rape and abuse sequences. Felons within the MDP organization are to either traffick or murder a victim because their data brokers does not want to exposed and has paid a great sum of currency to illegally purchase the personal records of their targets and to send a weaponized drone to the illegally purchased individual, equipped with biohacking weapons to break down their targets into trafficking themselves, committing suicide or murdering others. They run criminal schools/organizations that breeds more human traffickers and prostitutes into the public. They Will Say Anything to Force You to move!
“We need you!” “We love you, Move!” “We want to lust your body.”
They work on every emotion within their targets brain and force the individual either into a blind rage or to try to confuse the person with their own emotions through a series of gaslighting and abuse, into moving their targets to them (I can not stress this enough, do not let them force you into trafficking yourself.
The felons also pretend to be some type of close friend to their victims in order to keep control over them. They are fully trained and prepared personally to place severe torture on one individual (they pair up and gang up on one individual at a time and “jumps” said victim. They act like grade school kids, but that’s due to the heavy influence of their handlers, crack and cocaine that has degenerated them. They also are heavily involved in the drug/prostitution ring where everyone gets raped and are all under heavy mind control from a cocktail of different drugs including cocaine.
The felons has their victims set up as empty puppets who are under complete control. The victims now turned felons/rapists/addicts are raised specifically to absorb abuse, while abusing drugs to remain numb during their operations, scopolamine, crack and cocaine to remain numb to any words from their victims.
They train individuals this way so they can deal more damage than receive it during their illegal operations. They are completely separate from reality and are all under one criminal control.
They are aware of people resisting and they promise to do everything to try to force their targets into submitting to their handlers. Warning! These Malicious Drone Operators WILL Say ANYTHING to force a person to move!
The terrorists all have their handlers speaking directly into their ears during their operations to murder or capture the innocent, giving them orders on their scripts made to place torture and destroy random individuals, innocent or not.
They tend to target the innocents more since these felons find it more satisfying to rape, brainwash, and intoxicate the innocent heavily until the innocent is completely empty. As soon as as they’re successful, they turn the captured individuals into drug addicts, whores, and forced laborers, working for gift cards and sexual/party favors.
They will always refuse to leave their targets unless the person gives in and moves to them. Or if the victim gathers any evidence leading to the arrest and shutdown of MDP
To the many different individuals that takes the time to read this, I am taking the time and energy out of my life to warn everyone about a massive data breach that has occurred and that is endangering many lives, including my own at this very point in time.
This type of data breach is the very worst of its kind. Before, the biggest threat was internet crimes, malware, and viruses that may have affected your assets if you were to click the wrong link. Now your actual physical being is at risk by MDP data brokers who are currently funding these criminal networks and are providing illegally purchased records of random individuals around the world.
Now, the MDP criminals today have gone above and beyond the internet and are sending drones with biohacking technologies attachments to random individuals. These weapon attachments magnetizes to specific muscles within the human anatomy of the hijackers choosing. This allows the hijacker to manipulate small muscle tissues within the human body such as rotating an individuals eyes at the hijackers will to keep their victims sleep deprived. They focus on the genitals primarily to exploit the human desire to make love with another individual through the manipulation of their genitals such methods, human traffickers and terrorist organizations are now utilizing these magnetic weapons attached to drones to lock a persons own body up for ransom which could be assets, or force you to sell your body into slavery.
They offer the remote of the victims body, to the victims they use to manipulate certain muscles and veins in the body in exchange for the capture of the victims body.
MDP human traffickers have evolved from footwork to airborne to stay covert. Hiding behind custom biohacking drones ordered online and through various other biohacking black market trades.
“Voices in the head” has been declassified and debunked as electronic biohacking through electromagnets, radiation, drones and neurophones funded and powered by criminal Fusion Centers, MDP who fund radical extremists and terrorists around the world. This was thought out to be a medical condition that is often confused with schizophrenia or another mental illness. But I challenged the theory and discovered that the public has been heavily misinformed.
If a person never had a history with voices in their head that were not of their own voices, and they have proof of their attackers transmitting these frequencies, how could it be a medical condition if the person has evidence of the voices being transmitted directly to his/her skull? So, not only the voices are there, they are also instructing people to either murder, rape, or traffick themselves to one of the many fusion centers, human/sex trafficking homes within undisclosed locations, “ghettos”, and divisions that could be in any closed off homes, (homes with unusually active activities) so they could focus and convert their captives through a series of abuse and ritualistic routines 24/7 everyday.
They force the individual to impregnate one of their paid prostitutes that are doppelgängers to their targets. They do this to raise another human into being another drug addict/trafficker, born and raised into the criminal network so it’ll appear more natural to kill, traffick and brainwash victims.
The MDP pretend to be on the victims side, but they really are not. They all have an illegal drill instructor that only teaches the trafficked “warloot” abuse, rape, and how to torture.
submitted by DivineSperm to maldives [link] [comments]
They will repeat “Join us” until you go insane. What throws these deranged psychopaths into a frenzy is when their evil venomous words do not bother, reach or harm the person
Each and every night, MDP conducts an air raid of High Altitude Pseudo Satellites, swarming the atmosphere, hijacking actual satellites to spy for their human trafficking and prostitution organization.
Each MDP facility contains a male homosexual drill instructor training prostitutes on how to capture people, how to trick people into signing a contract.
Do not let these extremist radical terrorists force you into suicide or anything, hold out! The more that are resilient, the quicker this will be resolved.
Once these radical terrorist biohackers successfully causes an individual to commit suicide or die in anyway, they burst from the persons dead body, giggling and laughing as they kill humans for fun and infects another person as if they were a horrific virus.
They bulge and twitch the persons eye lids as a sign of their technology’s existence within the person. If you notice any of these signs in either you or your family, you and/or them have been hijacked by biohackers.
This is an outbreak of radical terrorists in high platform airships and drones, illegally eavesdropping and trafficking humans into sex prostitution utilizing electromagnets, radio waves, and radiation
They can force a person to cough with sonic weaponry, imitating illnesses on a wide scale for control and as well, to assimilate identities illegally.
Don’t believe me! Research it!
STDs are being used to keep a person stuck within their prostitution rings.
MDP is an entire organization of drug addicts with advanced technology trafficking humans. They are all the same, against the people, not one of these demon-lovers are on the people’s side.
Cesspool homosexual orgies with drugs and STDs are systematically given to new cult members to keep them stuck in one place.
Whatever you do, do NOT care about them. They will try to use your empathy to have you kill yourselves.
Don’t panic! The hostiles are on Debilitating/Sedative drugs. Stop your bitching and fight your way through it until the threat is resolved. Keep relaxed. Let your friends, family, and kids know! Awareness destroys their recon
It’s NOT the “Illuminati”.
Keep Calm/Be Confident and Live.
Study magnets/Electromagnets.
You are not missing out on anything if someone or a group is pressing on you. Go do you! Do not let anyone influence you!
Their command centers are hidden within some call centers (Do not be paranoid!). It is urgent that you stay on the surface if you work around them. Do not let them systematically control or allure you into signing a contract to an unknown authority to make love with their merchandise in plain sight as spies or to be involved in illegal reconnaissance operations.
As long as you do not sign a contract for, and I quote, “everything you always wanted!” You will be fine.
YOU ARE NOT INVITED! Do not submit to any of their offers! They can alter words in the mind with their weaponized drones.
Stop Feeding This World Wide Threat!
Stop Surrendering because it’s too much to deal with! They are on high class drugs nearly 24/7 everyday!
Reclaim your identity or have it taken away by a criminal organization!
Non-lethal weapons modified to be lethal weapons!
Their captive women/children are their front line against men! They WILL try to force you to kneel to the their dictator, Solih, the shapeshifting hybrid. You will then be susceptible and subjected to heavier sonic attacks as well as abuses.
Do Not Quit! Do NOT Surrender!
Observe them for one year if you do not believe me. Take notes, keep quiet and carry on with your own personal life in the meanwhile. You will take notice of their patterns.
MDP terrorists are pretending to be schools as part of their scripts! They murder doctors and healers of any kind if they do not submit to being trafficked into human/sex trafficking facilities/homes!
They are not Authority of any kind, unless you surrender and you sign their contract and accept them as your handlers.
THIS IS NOT A GAME!
Stall them out! Do not move!
I can’t believe I am stating this. What is written below is not intended to be satire or a joke. This has actually contributed to their narcissism, their abuses, and mass murders
Stop masturbating to these terrorists! They are raping and abusing you and your fellow citizens, HEAVILY! Your fellow Maldivians are being raped over sonar hearing that only YOU can hear, and you masturbate to the Maldivians moaning, being raped??
You do NOT need to sign a contract to the MDP using sonar hearing to be allowed to marry, be intimate, or are subjected and forced to “marry” their trained terrorists.
They are paid liars and spies that trains prostitutes how to screw their targets exactly the way their targets want. This is done to have the target “test” the human traffickers prostitutes before they sign to keep them. Instead, you are selling yourself into human/sex/drug trafficking rings
Do not accept their “lust” they do have spies in person that are drug abuse/humans traffickers. They will bribe with sex and “free housing” then make you sign your life away, with you under the impression that you are going to some brothel or “sex club”. You will be susceptible to extreme abuses revolving around rape, drugs, and traumatic physical and mental abuses. Sound Proof Your Homes!
THEY ARE ALL THE SAME!!
They use prostitution to allure their new victims! DO NOT BELIEVE THEM!
The MDP consists of homosexual elitists, human traffickers, terrorists, Eavesdroppers/Spies utilizing sonic weapons/sonar hearing weapons to euthanize/Traffic and enslave the general public. DO NOT GO!
They will go to war with federal officials/agents to keep their bodies enslaved!
Their cults authority are primarily shapeshifting Reptillian-Jinn-Human hybrids that are seeking “World Domination utilizing Sonic weapons” in an attempt to force the innocent and the vulnerable into surrendering themselves to human/sex/drug trafficking ring.
They are not the police!
Spies are very obvious to point out!
They are illegally eavesdropping families to extract their young. Their groups primarily consists of autistic and the mentally ill, that abuses a series of class A drugs to traffick and create new slaves.
Do NOT sign the contract! It’s ridiculous! They have two contracts, one for you to surrender, and the other for you to contract yourself into surrendering voluntarily. They also wordplay aggressively.
( I am disclosing the depths of their criminal business for abusing sonar hearing technology to assimilate identities, killing ruthlessly while induced under highly potent drugs, mass kidnappings, weapons, and prostitution/pedophilia. You will be stripped of all privileges and rights to these lifelong detention facilities!)
The threat progresses like humans, but the hostiles are progressing entirely against your person.
They are trying to steal your entire identity, do not sign the contract! Otherwise you will never make choices in your own lives again!
They look like everyday people, but do not be paranoid. Be aware of your surroundings and leave a way out for yourself if you are ever caught in a potentially dangerous situation. But do NOT be paranoid, delusional, or psychotic about it as not only would you be more susceptible to any abuses, your vulnerabilities may force you to make the wrong decisions. Man/woman up if you want to keep your own free self.
Do not give into extreme paranoia!
Most Demonic Perverts human trafficking networks has expanded. Be weary of unknown terrorists/individuals giving victims rides to parties, “mansions”, or a trip to the ghetto islands for drugs
They are not the police! They are not aliens!
They will use love to manipulate you.
Think of online scams or common pop up scams you would receive on your daily Internet commute. Same thing except, they want you to traffick yourself into a entrapment facility. Using various sexual exploitation tactics, infinite gaslighting strategies to force negative emotion to their targets and threats a long with actions of inhumane abuse cycles in hopes of subduing their targets
If you accept any bribes and sign the contract offered, you will be paying taxes to a criminal organization/network, times the current state and/or government taxes you already currently pay for, along with any other extra expenses that will occur if you sign the contract.
Ex: Government Taxes + Criminal Organizations Taxes = Taxes x2 or more since you will not be in control of your currency any longer.
If you do not see actual law enforcement individuals in front of your physical self, DO NOT GET ON THE GROUND! They are NOT any authority to the people outside of their trafficking homes!
Drug abuse/Addictions attracts these hostiles. They WILL psychologically trick you into subduing yourself.
Do not be fooled by their fake friendly appearances and smiles. You will be robbed!
Pay attention to your aiground horns! But do not panic!
They are NOT the government or federal agents. They are spies from criminal organizations worldwide!
If you do not believe me, then what I am speaking of may not not make any sense to you now. (Do your own research, don’t take only my word for it) But a great number of those who reads my news update will understand that we are dealing with outlaws that are mainly responsible for the random disappearances of children.
Be aware of homes with “No trespassing” signs, unusually high activity and surveillance cameras in ghetto islands.
They are not the MNDF/MPS/NASA/God/You/yourself/or anybody else you know. Even though some has defected and joined this horrific network full of criminals and pathological murderers, pretending to be friendly or family.
Global Human Trafficking Evolution
They want to ultimately farm your kids and sell them into prostitution!
Human traffickers will start a ground war to capture their victims and to keep spying on them with aircrafts.
Cyber ventriloquism/Sonar Hearing, common tactics.
This has been worsening since 2008.
The criminal agents will immediately disinform and satire this disclosure or any as if nothing was wrong or happening right now.
Educate yourselves to save yourselves! This is NOT a test from any governments within the security fields (MNDF, MPS or any other) though these organizations may or may not be involved, credible evidence is needed to prove that these organizations are apart of the worlds most inhumane experiments utilizing electromagnets and radiation to subdue any man or woman.
Disinformation campaigns are set up and used by the villainous organization to keep the public from knowing about their “spying” on various individuals around the world and from raising awareness on their secret experiment using electromagnets and a machine that rewrites the brain in a flash.
The threat mimics medical conditions to stay hidden. Very heavy human/sex trafficking organization and operations getting worse everyday.
This is NOT a special or a unique opportunity for anyone, do not fall for this! You will be chipped, trapped, and abused inhumanly like a wild animal.
They also possess disinformation campaign divisions made solely for the purposes of covering their trafficking and tracks.
The technologically driven human traffickers will preemptively meditate on murdering you if you do not reclaim your identity!
Do NOT surrender yourself to MDP! Traffickers are seeking your signature to lock you away inside a facility.
Do NOT play hero or games with extremists. They are studying every word, step, and actions you make. With the goal to either capture, subdue, or mind break an individual into harming theirselves and/or other’s.
The traffickers wagers that they can defect millions into trafficking the victims into their criminal networks/organization and facilities around the globe, the organization calls it “hiding bodies” utilizing the individuals past as their entire method to cause the person as much psychological harm as inhumanly possible.
Powerful electromagnetic radiation is beamed into the victims skull to send and receive data, bypassing the skull to access the brain as if it was a computer hard drive. The program is only to torture and ruin lives. If not forewarned about it, lives will be abducted, or killed secretly.
Traffickers can completely invade and compromise a person and force the victim into either surrendering theirselves to their abusers and never be seen again, or the victim is left with nothing, outstripped from jobs through 24/7 focus groups to psych a person out of a job and attempt to have their victims deconstruct theirselves and others around.
This is an everyday 24/7 torture system designed to traffick, kill, torture, and molest an individual.The traffickers breed with their brothers, sisters and other blood related individuals for experimental and pedophila is a major part of their cult, DO NOT BE FOOLED!
PEDOPHILIA, TORTURE, NECROPHILIA, RAPE! These are four pillars of the Most Demonic Perverts.
Silent/Covert inbreds are waging war against innocents
All out war with mankind on one side and Most Demonic Perverts on the other.
Hostiles are taking hostages secretly through aggression and various fear tactics. MDP terrorists can cut breathing with their weapons.
Love your spouses and who you are and they may spare you by moving on to someone else.
Protect yourselves with neodymium magnets!! Protect your brain with magnets! Hover the magnets over your head.
(This is NOT fake news, we have been compromised, completely and utterly compromised!)
DO NOT GO!!! There is nothing there that will benefit you!
MDP preys on any vulnerabilities that a human possess. Stay strong to those that are affected, investigations are becoming more widespread
They entrap individuals for experimental purposes in a room with 1 bathroom and 40+ prostitutes and drug addicts, and other mentally ill criminals who enjoys their jobs in systematically destroying human lives in the most inhuman and extreme ways.
They are lead by drag queen homosexuals with a goal to create slaves by converting them into homosexuals, making it easier to control individuals.
They also have these systematic gay orgies where they abuse a plethora of drugs (crack, meth, cocaine, scopolamine, etc) before severely abusing and raping a singular victim inhumanly. The victims were once a targeted individual before they gave up and accepted becoming a sacrifice for MDP.
If you are a new victim of these crimes, do as much research as possible and disclose, disclose, disclose. DO NOT MOVE TO VOICES THAT ARE NOT AROUND YOU!
Schizophrenia is NOT the reason due to the lack of evidence, proving that schizophrenia does not exist. Do not keep silent for this horrendous criminal network! They are all traffickers and they kill in the most inhumane way and call it their “fun”.
TLDR: MDP is a nefarious organization of drugged up lunatics. The are traffickers and are replicating theirselves to be your spouse, military officials, or any government identity to force and fool any person into trafficking theirselves into a criminal network through endless gaslighting through megaphone like devices that targets one individual at a time and projects their voices bypassing their targets auditory cortex. Once the drone targets a person, they stay on that person 24/7 everyday. If you are instructed to move to Winnipeg Canada or anywhere for bribes, sexual favors, money, and/or free housing through any means of transportation, Do Not Go! You are a victim of a class action crime that has gone out of hand. Do NOT give these criminals anymore power by giving yourself up to them. You did not win anything and being targeted by these drones means that they chose you to either traffick or to be murdered covertly using drones with electromagnetic weapons attachments and technology which allows sonic hearing that the MDP criminal organization network uses to communicate directly to one another without needing to use a phone. Captured victims are forced into unpaid labor and forced prostitution. The targeted victim will be missing and stored away within one of their run down homes/facilities, unable to escape or leave. The handlers forces their new members into various ritualistic initiations cycles within their cultist group kneel, to sniff up drugs.
Once captured, they immediately commence their routines of total control and exploitation of the fully captured person. The victims are broken down to less than nothing due to repeated rape and abuse sequences. Felons within the MDP organization are to either traffick or murder a victim because their data brokers does not want to exposed and has paid a great sum of currency to illegally purchase the personal records of their targets and to send a weaponized drone to the illegally purchased individual, equipped with biohacking weapons to break down their targets into trafficking themselves, committing suicide or murdering others. They run criminal schools/organizations that breeds more human traffickers and prostitutes into the public. They Will Say Anything to Force You to move!
“We need you!” “We love you, Move!” “We want to lust your body.”
They work on every emotion within their targets brain and force the individual either into a blind rage or to try to confuse the person with their own emotions through a series of gaslighting and abuse, into moving their targets to them (I can not stress this enough, do not let them force you into trafficking yourself.
The felons also pretend to be some type of close friend to their victims in order to keep control over them. They are fully trained and prepared personally to place severe torture on one individual (they pair up and gang up on one individual at a time and “jumps” said victim. They act like grade school kids, but that’s due to the heavy influence of their handlers, crack and cocaine that has degenerated them. They also are heavily involved in the drug/prostitution ring where everyone gets raped and are all under heavy mind control from a cocktail of different drugs including cocaine.
The felons has their victims set up as empty puppets who are under complete control. The victims now turned felons/rapists/addicts are raised specifically to absorb abuse, while abusing drugs to remain numb during their operations, scopolamine, crack and cocaine to remain numb to any words from their victims.
They train individuals this way so they can deal more damage than receive it during their illegal operations. They are completely separate from reality and are all under one criminal control.
They are aware of people resisting and they promise to do everything to try to force their targets into submitting to their handlers. Warning! These Malicious Drone Operators WILL Say ANYTHING to force a person to move!
The terrorists all have their handlers speaking directly into their ears during their operations to murder or capture the innocent, giving them orders on their scripts made to place torture and destroy random individuals, innocent or not.
They tend to target the innocents more since these felons find it more satisfying to rape, brainwash, and intoxicate the innocent heavily until the innocent is completely empty. As soon as as they’re successful, they turn the captured individuals into drug addicts, whores, and forced laborers, working for gift cards and sexual/party favors.
They will always refuse to leave their targets unless the person gives in and moves to them. Or if the victim gathers any evidence leading to the arrest and shutdown of MDP
To the many different individuals that takes the time to read this, I am taking the time and energy out of my life to warn everyone about a massive data breach that has occurred and that is endangering many lives, including my own at this very point in time.
This type of data breach is the very worst of its kind. Before, the biggest threat was internet crimes, malware, and viruses that may have affected your assets if you were to click the wrong link. Now your actual physical being is at risk by MDP data brokers who are currently funding these criminal networks and are providing illegally purchased records of random individuals around the world.
Now, the MDP criminals today have gone above and beyond the internet and are sending drones with biohacking technologies attachments to random individuals. These weapon attachments magnetizes to specific muscles within the human anatomy of the hijackers choosing. This allows the hijacker to manipulate small muscle tissues within the human body such as rotating an individuals eyes at the hijackers will to keep their victims sleep deprived. They focus on the genitals primarily to exploit the human desire to make love with another individual through the manipulation of their genitals such methods, human traffickers and terrorist organizations are now utilizing these magnetic weapons attached to drones to lock a persons own body up for ransom which could be assets, or force you to sell your body into slavery.
They offer the remote of the victims body, to the victims they use to manipulate certain muscles and veins in the body in exchange for the capture of the victims body.
MDP human traffickers have evolved from footwork to airborne to stay covert. Hiding behind custom biohacking drones ordered online and through various other biohacking black market trades.
“Voices in the head” has been declassified and debunked as electronic biohacking through electromagnets, radiation, drones and neurophones funded and powered by criminal Fusion Centers, MDP who fund radical extremists and terrorists around the world. This was thought out to be a medical condition that is often confused with schizophrenia or another mental illness. But I challenged the theory and discovered that the public has been heavily misinformed.
If a person never had a history with voices in their head that were not of their own voices, and they have proof of their attackers transmitting these frequencies, how could it be a medical condition if the person has evidence of the voices being transmitted directly to his/her skull? So, not only the voices are there, they are also instructing people to either murder, rape, or traffick themselves to one of the many fusion centers, human/sex trafficking homes within undisclosed locations, “ghettos”, and divisions that could be in any closed off homes, (homes with unusually active activities) so they could focus and convert their captives through a series of abuse and ritualistic routines 24/7 everyday.
They force the individual to impregnate one of their paid prostitutes that are doppelgängers to their targets. They do this to raise another human into being another drug addict/trafficker, born and raised into the criminal network so it’ll appear more natural to kill, traffick and brainwash victims.
The MDP pretend to be on the victims side, but they really are not. They all have an illegal drill instructor that only teaches the trafficked “warloot” abuse, rape, and how to torture.
2024.05.15 12:39 jameswells390 Meeting a Fake Jesus
As a former Christian the fear of hell has still been something I struggled with since leaving the faith. It has been a goal of mine to meet Jesus astrally sometime, and I had been getting visions of crosses in meditation so I thought the time might be soon.
Before leaving my bed and my body into AP, I saw a bright light and felt a warm, loving energy. I looked to my side and knew it was (supposed to be) Jesus.
I initially felt very comforted in his presence. "You should invite more people over to see me," he said.
Since leaving the church and finding spirituality, the biggest concern in my mind has always been, "What if I'm wrong?" So I asked him, "Am I doing the right things?" To which he responded, "Not exactly." I asked him to elaborate but he gave me the impression that he would explain later.
He left the room and so did I, and soon after I was confronted by (what looked like) my mom, and she started saying all these things about how I was following the wrong religion and going down a dangerous path, and how Jesus told her to say all these things.
I woke from that experience, not entirely sure what to make of it. To be fair "Am I doing the right things" was a pretty broad question, but the first red flag to me was that he was white?
In the next experience (this time a lucid dream), I was being mildly harassed by some negative entities. I wasn't fully lucid yet or otherwise I would have just lovingly told them to respect my boundaries. Instead I called "Jesus" back in hoping he would make them stop. He came in with that same loving, (false) light energy, but it still didn't stop these other entities, which made me even more suspicious.
He took us to this building in the woods, where I started asking him a bunch of questions about Christianity. "Are you God?" I asked him.
I already knew the answer was no, as God is not a person. But he responded with the bible quote, "Before Abraham was, I am." I, like many others, have interpreted this to mean "We all are" as in we are all part of God/Source. But I wanted to know what he would say it meant.
"It means I'm like half-god," he responded.
Then I asked him a question I wanted to ask for a long time: "What do you think about gay people?"
His response was... entertaining to say the least. "Well, there was this one kid, who was like really gay, and there was this guy he wanted to marry, but the church didn't want it to go through. But if it's either he gets married or has random sex with strangers, I'd rather he gets married."
But the more questions I asked he slowly started to shed his disguise... until he hardly looked like Jesus at all. By the end he was hiding in the bathroom and just poking his head through the door.
"If you have any more questions, there's a whole book about me, it's called THE BIBLE, you should read it," he said in a condescending tone. I'm glad I did my research on false light and the demiurge before this, because I KNEW he was a fake.
I followed him into this bathroom and asked him, "in the name of the Almighty Creator God, are you the real Jesus?"
Immediately he seemed very intimidated. He tried to rephrase the answer, but I told him again to say it in the name of the Almighty Creator God, and he just panicked and stuttered. So I called him out.
"I KNEW IT! You are a liar and a cheater," I said.
"CHEATER? I'm not even married!" He said, trying to further deflect the allegations.
"You are the Demiurge!" I said.
"Damn it, I just want a vacation," he said, defeated.
So what, is the government sending people out into the astral to masquerade as Jesus and try to convert more people to Christianity? That would certainly make sense seeing how many people nowadays are "finding Jesus". Either way this experience has really helped me to move on from my fear of hell, and furthermore confirmed my suspicion that modern Christianity is based on a lie.
submitted by jameswells390 to SpiritualDevelopments [link] [comments]
Before leaving my bed and my body into AP, I saw a bright light and felt a warm, loving energy. I looked to my side and knew it was (supposed to be) Jesus.
I initially felt very comforted in his presence. "You should invite more people over to see me," he said.
Since leaving the church and finding spirituality, the biggest concern in my mind has always been, "What if I'm wrong?" So I asked him, "Am I doing the right things?" To which he responded, "Not exactly." I asked him to elaborate but he gave me the impression that he would explain later.
He left the room and so did I, and soon after I was confronted by (what looked like) my mom, and she started saying all these things about how I was following the wrong religion and going down a dangerous path, and how Jesus told her to say all these things.
I woke from that experience, not entirely sure what to make of it. To be fair "Am I doing the right things" was a pretty broad question, but the first red flag to me was that he was white?
In the next experience (this time a lucid dream), I was being mildly harassed by some negative entities. I wasn't fully lucid yet or otherwise I would have just lovingly told them to respect my boundaries. Instead I called "Jesus" back in hoping he would make them stop. He came in with that same loving, (false) light energy, but it still didn't stop these other entities, which made me even more suspicious.
He took us to this building in the woods, where I started asking him a bunch of questions about Christianity. "Are you God?" I asked him.
I already knew the answer was no, as God is not a person. But he responded with the bible quote, "Before Abraham was, I am." I, like many others, have interpreted this to mean "We all are" as in we are all part of God/Source. But I wanted to know what he would say it meant.
"It means I'm like half-god," he responded.
Then I asked him a question I wanted to ask for a long time: "What do you think about gay people?"
His response was... entertaining to say the least. "Well, there was this one kid, who was like really gay, and there was this guy he wanted to marry, but the church didn't want it to go through. But if it's either he gets married or has random sex with strangers, I'd rather he gets married."
But the more questions I asked he slowly started to shed his disguise... until he hardly looked like Jesus at all. By the end he was hiding in the bathroom and just poking his head through the door.
"If you have any more questions, there's a whole book about me, it's called THE BIBLE, you should read it," he said in a condescending tone. I'm glad I did my research on false light and the demiurge before this, because I KNEW he was a fake.
I followed him into this bathroom and asked him, "in the name of the Almighty Creator God, are you the real Jesus?"
Immediately he seemed very intimidated. He tried to rephrase the answer, but I told him again to say it in the name of the Almighty Creator God, and he just panicked and stuttered. So I called him out.
"I KNEW IT! You are a liar and a cheater," I said.
"CHEATER? I'm not even married!" He said, trying to further deflect the allegations.
"You are the Demiurge!" I said.
"Damn it, I just want a vacation," he said, defeated.
So what, is the government sending people out into the astral to masquerade as Jesus and try to convert more people to Christianity? That would certainly make sense seeing how many people nowadays are "finding Jesus". Either way this experience has really helped me to move on from my fear of hell, and furthermore confirmed my suspicion that modern Christianity is based on a lie.
2024.05.13 17:23 s_abcpj Narrative analysis of the beef (Drake v. Kendrick)
Drake is really a pedophile who runs human trafficking, and the whole industry knows about it. Kendrick hates that fact and wants to destroy everything, but doesn't have any evidence. So, what to do? Ride the tail of Diddy’s arrest, rile people up to raise awareness.
Let’s start with striking Drake’s ego with Like That.
Drake knows what Kendrick’s mission is, they hate each other for a long time already. Of course they also understand each other. What to do? Don’t give Kendrick a chance to run his mission, make it as chaotic as possible.
Use lies, lies, lies, and lies, mix up some confusion that all of this are about skin color, add pretension that it’s about who’s the best in rap, add some annoyance to trip up Kendrick’s fans (let them scream about SZA as much as they want), add some B-Rabbit’s shit (Hey, I know it’s about pedophilia), put some diversion to Kendrick’s main target (Introducing Tupac & Snoop AI), never forget to add some bragging and last, serve it to as many rapper as possible.
((I don’t want to bother looking up which part belongs to which track, so just let me merge them, ok?))
“Hey, Buddy, I know you’re gonna tell everyone that I’m a liar. Look at me, I will only tell lies, and everyone will still believe me. I already announce to the world that I’m a loverboy, and nobody bats an eyelid”
((For everyone who doesn’t understand, please google “loverboy method”))
Understanding his opponent, Kendrick chose to shut his ears, write up all of his diss tracks. The tactic is clear, stay on the mission.
For the first track, just repeat the mantra. He’s an actor, scam artist, master manipulator, habitual liar, a poker face, he fakin’. Peel him up layer by layer so everyone can clearly see how fake he is. Sprinkle some hints so everyone can guess what it’s really about. Pedo, pedo, pedo, pedo. Add some flare, fake warning for the benefit of the audiences. It will always be about pedo anyway.
Second track, a real challenge. “Hey, do you really think I don’t have any evidence? I have many spies. And I’m ready to do a kamikaze attack, let’s die together.”
Drake’s camp shook up a little bit. Does he really have any spies? What’s the plan? Let’s just repeat our last try, chaos is the best way. Add some heavy allegations to rile up the audiences.
“Show to the audience that we don’t care about any of Kendrick’s warnings. How do we annoy Kendrick’s fans now? Ah, easy… let’s give the hardest part of the track to everyone but Kendrick.”
The audience screams…. "Kendrick, are you a wife beater, cuck?"
Kendrick knows that everything is just an act for Drake. He’s not really attacking Whitney and Dave Free. He’s not really accusing him of any domestic violence. Why bother with all the provocation? Continue as planned, send the real attack now.
“Hey everyone, this is my main mission, to show all of you how fucking horrible of a person Drake really is. And please understand what I said on my first track. He’s a liar. He’s a liar. He’s a liar. He’s a liar. He’s a liar. He’s a liar. He’s a liar. He’s a liar. Hey Drake, You don’t believe that I have spies? So how do I know about your daughter?”
((For everyone who doubts Kendrick’s claim about the daughter. Please remember that he’s on a mission to reveal how much of a liar Drake is. Using a lie as a weapon would totally defeat the purpose. The daughter is real.))
Drake’s camp shook harder than the first time. Are the spies real? What kind of evidence they already smuggle out? Time to rile people up, let’s put a feeler on via Instagram. But also, probably a slip up “What daughter?”
The world split into two. One part screamed “Yeah, what daughter, wife beater?” The other part gets confused “Wait…. Why don’t you question the pedophile part?”
With only a single mission on his mind, Kendrick ignored all the questions and continued the attack. Time to spread the awareness into more and more people, let everyone dance and laugh while chanting how horrible Drake is at the same time.
Looking at how many people dance, Drake panics. He requested a ceasefire in the backside, but planned an attack on the frontside. No time to summon some ghosts. Now sure that Kendrick doesn't have any evidence, he stepped up alone, as cocky as always, doing his best taunt.
“Hey Kendrick, I’ll help you scream pedophile. I’ll tell everyone that I expected the Epstein angle, I’ll shout out Millie Bobby Brown, do you think you’ll win? Nobody will listen to you, I’m too big to lose. Hey Kendrick’s fans, here’s a mistaken quote from your lord’s song to make you crawl.”
“Hey Everyone, With many allegations being thrown around, do you think we need to check one by one which is true and which is false? Look, this is me explaining my position, let’s ask Kendrick to do the same.”
Drake’s fans screamed “Kendrick, it's your turn now, explain all of that shit, or you’re lost by default.”
Kendrick fans screamed “Foul, Kendrick is already won! Let’s compare how much of our favorites speak the truth. and what the fuck is that quote?”
The rest of the world keeps dancing.
And nobody is even aware how much of a manipulator Drake is.
To be continued? Or is it The End?
Is Kendrick mission even finished already?
Is he truly ready for a kamikaze attack?
Who is EbonyPrince242K?
Wait, What?
submitted by s_abcpj to KendrickLamar [link] [comments]
Let’s start with striking Drake’s ego with Like That.
Drake knows what Kendrick’s mission is, they hate each other for a long time already. Of course they also understand each other. What to do? Don’t give Kendrick a chance to run his mission, make it as chaotic as possible.
Use lies, lies, lies, and lies, mix up some confusion that all of this are about skin color, add pretension that it’s about who’s the best in rap, add some annoyance to trip up Kendrick’s fans (let them scream about SZA as much as they want), add some B-Rabbit’s shit (Hey, I know it’s about pedophilia), put some diversion to Kendrick’s main target (Introducing Tupac & Snoop AI), never forget to add some bragging and last, serve it to as many rapper as possible.
((I don’t want to bother looking up which part belongs to which track, so just let me merge them, ok?))
“Hey, Buddy, I know you’re gonna tell everyone that I’m a liar. Look at me, I will only tell lies, and everyone will still believe me. I already announce to the world that I’m a loverboy, and nobody bats an eyelid”
((For everyone who doesn’t understand, please google “loverboy method”))
Understanding his opponent, Kendrick chose to shut his ears, write up all of his diss tracks. The tactic is clear, stay on the mission.
For the first track, just repeat the mantra. He’s an actor, scam artist, master manipulator, habitual liar, a poker face, he fakin’. Peel him up layer by layer so everyone can clearly see how fake he is. Sprinkle some hints so everyone can guess what it’s really about. Pedo, pedo, pedo, pedo. Add some flare, fake warning for the benefit of the audiences. It will always be about pedo anyway.
Second track, a real challenge. “Hey, do you really think I don’t have any evidence? I have many spies. And I’m ready to do a kamikaze attack, let’s die together.”
Drake’s camp shook up a little bit. Does he really have any spies? What’s the plan? Let’s just repeat our last try, chaos is the best way. Add some heavy allegations to rile up the audiences.
“Show to the audience that we don’t care about any of Kendrick’s warnings. How do we annoy Kendrick’s fans now? Ah, easy… let’s give the hardest part of the track to everyone but Kendrick.”
The audience screams…. "Kendrick, are you a wife beater, cuck?"
Kendrick knows that everything is just an act for Drake. He’s not really attacking Whitney and Dave Free. He’s not really accusing him of any domestic violence. Why bother with all the provocation? Continue as planned, send the real attack now.
“Hey everyone, this is my main mission, to show all of you how fucking horrible of a person Drake really is. And please understand what I said on my first track. He’s a liar. He’s a liar. He’s a liar. He’s a liar. He’s a liar. He’s a liar. He’s a liar. He’s a liar. Hey Drake, You don’t believe that I have spies? So how do I know about your daughter?”
((For everyone who doubts Kendrick’s claim about the daughter. Please remember that he’s on a mission to reveal how much of a liar Drake is. Using a lie as a weapon would totally defeat the purpose. The daughter is real.))
Drake’s camp shook harder than the first time. Are the spies real? What kind of evidence they already smuggle out? Time to rile people up, let’s put a feeler on via Instagram. But also, probably a slip up “What daughter?”
The world split into two. One part screamed “Yeah, what daughter, wife beater?” The other part gets confused “Wait…. Why don’t you question the pedophile part?”
With only a single mission on his mind, Kendrick ignored all the questions and continued the attack. Time to spread the awareness into more and more people, let everyone dance and laugh while chanting how horrible Drake is at the same time.
Looking at how many people dance, Drake panics. He requested a ceasefire in the backside, but planned an attack on the frontside. No time to summon some ghosts. Now sure that Kendrick doesn't have any evidence, he stepped up alone, as cocky as always, doing his best taunt.
“Hey Kendrick, I’ll help you scream pedophile. I’ll tell everyone that I expected the Epstein angle, I’ll shout out Millie Bobby Brown, do you think you’ll win? Nobody will listen to you, I’m too big to lose. Hey Kendrick’s fans, here’s a mistaken quote from your lord’s song to make you crawl.”
“Hey Everyone, With many allegations being thrown around, do you think we need to check one by one which is true and which is false? Look, this is me explaining my position, let’s ask Kendrick to do the same.”
Drake’s fans screamed “Kendrick, it's your turn now, explain all of that shit, or you’re lost by default.”
Kendrick fans screamed “Foul, Kendrick is already won! Let’s compare how much of our favorites speak the truth. and what the fuck is that quote?”
The rest of the world keeps dancing.
And nobody is even aware how much of a manipulator Drake is.
Is Kendrick mission even finished already?
Is he truly ready for a kamikaze attack?
Who is EbonyPrince242K?
Wait, What?
2024.05.13 03:13 EBeewtf 35f - 60lbs Down, 130lbs to Go — Feeling Real Bad For Myself Today
update:
Thank you to everyone that read this and commented. I was in a really low place yesterday, and felt like I had no one to talk to. I’ve used this community for the past few years. Even when I wasn’t fully on my journey. You all have always been so helpful and uplifting.
Today was a better day. I had my sad, wallow day yesterday. Wrote this post and got everything off my chest. Spoke to my therapist today, too, and I am ready to keep going and get back to the intended goal.
I found this quote the other day:
“You have two choices everyday. 1. The pain of discipline 2. The pain of regret.”
I wrote that really big and hung it on my door. I am choosing the pain of discipline. I understand I will need to choose this everyday for the foreseeable future. It is hard. Comfort zones are comfortable…until they aren’t.
I don’t want to live in regret. So, I fight another day. I put on my Fitbit today. Did a 30 minute workout. And was excited that I stayed in my fat burn zone the entire time.
I have to work hard to see the positives in life. I think the trauma of being sick for such a long period of time, paired with everything that happened because of it, has given me an incredibly cynical view of everything that is often hard to rise above. But the truth is. I went through all of that, never thought my life would be better, and it is immensely better. Sick and disabled to being treated and mostly fully myself again. Homeless to living in a beautiful rental near the sea. Broke to working remotely and having healthcare + a paycheck + fun colleagues (that I don’t see but still). And I was just promoted. I need to start focusing on the good.
Next time I come back here, I want to have lost another 50 to 60lbs. I don’t spend a lot of time on here purposely, so will be closing down for a bit again.
Just wanted to thank everyone. :)
—————————————————————————
Hey hey.
I haven’t been on here in a long while.
I am 35, female, started at 335lbs.
I am someone who has been overweight my whole life. Obese before able to understand what that even was. I was a normal weight as a small child, but right before elementary school I seemed to balloon up to obese. That’s how I started my school life. Obese. I never understood why people were so mean to me, picked on me, didn’t pick me; why I didn’t have huge groups of friends. I went through the majority of my adolescents like this, and guess it really became clear to me in middle school.
I wasn’t a pretty girl. There was something wrong with me. I was fat, ugly, whatever everyone called me. And at home, the commentary about my weight continued. From everyone but my mother, my enabler. Sometimes I wonder if she did it purposely, because I am 35 and still live with her and am miserable. And in hiding. Maybe she wanted that. I am her only child. She is divorced and never has been in a long term committed relationship. I am her everything. It is suffocating.
I went through a rough five years of chronic illness that ruined my life in countless ways. But while in the prison of it, I had the opportunity to look at my life in the big picture sense. I didn’t like any of it. I regretted everything. I didn’t have one thing that, if I died, I could smile back on and say, “At least I got to experience that.” I never thought I would be well again, lost my career, social life, family life, stability and money. I was homeless while being incredibly ill because no one could/would take care of me. My mother is financially unstable. My sinking led to her sinking. Two drowning people. I vowed that if I ever got better, I would live my life to the fullest. I would lose my weight. I would live the life I wanted to live. I sincerely didn’t think I would make it out of where I was alive, however. Then I went to a dr that diagnosed my autoimmune disease and saved me.
I have felt incredibly bitter towards my mother. In the depths of my illness, she was a liar, she put me in bad situations because she just couldn’t help herself. I honestly — from horrible mental health while sick — thought she was the devil at one point. That I died and was in hell and she was the devil disguised as my mother.
I guess today was hard for me because of built up resentment. Out of all of the other mother’s days we’ve been celebrating. I am particularly fcked up over this one. I had her take some full body pictures of me. I have this crazy double chin I am afraid will not go away even with weight loss, though I still have 130lbs to lose and am sure I will look very different either way. And I just…cannot connect to the way I look. I don’t feel like how I look. If I saw me in real life, I would feel bad for me. I would think she is mentally unwell. I would think someone ruined her life. She had to hide from something. I instantly didn’t want to follow through on any plans I had with my mom. I felt mentally unwell and wanted to stay in my room. And I mostly did.
I have been working on everything about myself the past few years. Shit personality traits. Bad habits. Unhealthy mindsets and unhealthy behaviors. I have been self correcting so much, which has been leading to discipline, but it’s not enough. Not fast enough. And it also feels like it doesn’t matter at all.
I am 35. 275lbs, up a few pounds from my lowest two months ago before I decided to fall off track again. After seeing my family, I should add. I keep my visits with them extremely limited because it’s unhealthy to be around them. Too much resentment. I work a remote, peanuts paying job that hardly respects me, though just promoted me last week. For slightly more peanuts. I am single. Childless. Haven’t been in a romantic relationship for fifteen years. I am lonely, horny, and completely unfulfilled. But I don’t know how to just turn everything around right now and get what I want. Because I can’t. Because it’s not how life works, sadly.
I went off on my mom. I am very candid about how I feel. As someone of childbearing age, I just look at her as someone who maybe shouldn’t have had a child. I didn’t grow up physically abused or homeless or anything terrible. I am likely selfish. But I was not directed or taught to live a good, healthy, happy and independent life. I was mentally and emotionally abused. Never given any tools to be successful. Any moment I could have had it easy was ruined by having zero direction. Like the money my grandmother left me that no longer exists because I was just allowed to spend it and go to hell with it. It feels like my life has been made to live on hard mode, and I have to correct every tiny detail just to set it remotely right again. And I am exhausted. Between illness and everything. I am so tired.
What is the point of having a child if you are not committed to giving them tools to have a good life? I don’t think I’ll even be able to have a child. I am already 35. Single because I am disgusting. Will be 36 before I am HOPEFULLY at my goal weight. I keep messing that up. Was supposed to be my goal weight at 35. Big whoops. And so what? I will be my goal with sagging disgusting skin and not even want to be seen naked. Or will opt for immediate skin removal surgery even though I can’t pay for it. And then have to heal from that and what, maybe just meet someone?? Just be able to stand myself naked in front of someone. And then be what, 38 when I finally can have a kid. But I’ll be too old to really have one. I feel like I wasn’t meant to be happy.
Even 60lbs down, I can’t see happiness at the end of it. I will have horrible sagging skin. I am having thinning hair from getting Covid and almost dying. I look disgusting. I wouldn’t look at me. I certainly wouldn’t look at me sexually. I can see why no one looks at me. I have crushes on people and I really shouldn’t. No one would look twice at me, and I wouldn’t blame them. I am disgusted with myself. I don’t think I will ever have the life I truly want. I want to dig a hole and sit in it. It feels hard to exist, and my life feels over.
submitted by EBeewtf to loseit [link] [comments]
Thank you to everyone that read this and commented. I was in a really low place yesterday, and felt like I had no one to talk to. I’ve used this community for the past few years. Even when I wasn’t fully on my journey. You all have always been so helpful and uplifting.
Today was a better day. I had my sad, wallow day yesterday. Wrote this post and got everything off my chest. Spoke to my therapist today, too, and I am ready to keep going and get back to the intended goal.
I found this quote the other day:
“You have two choices everyday. 1. The pain of discipline 2. The pain of regret.”
I wrote that really big and hung it on my door. I am choosing the pain of discipline. I understand I will need to choose this everyday for the foreseeable future. It is hard. Comfort zones are comfortable…until they aren’t.
I don’t want to live in regret. So, I fight another day. I put on my Fitbit today. Did a 30 minute workout. And was excited that I stayed in my fat burn zone the entire time.
I have to work hard to see the positives in life. I think the trauma of being sick for such a long period of time, paired with everything that happened because of it, has given me an incredibly cynical view of everything that is often hard to rise above. But the truth is. I went through all of that, never thought my life would be better, and it is immensely better. Sick and disabled to being treated and mostly fully myself again. Homeless to living in a beautiful rental near the sea. Broke to working remotely and having healthcare + a paycheck + fun colleagues (that I don’t see but still). And I was just promoted. I need to start focusing on the good.
Next time I come back here, I want to have lost another 50 to 60lbs. I don’t spend a lot of time on here purposely, so will be closing down for a bit again.
Just wanted to thank everyone. :)
—————————————————————————
Hey hey.
I haven’t been on here in a long while.
I am 35, female, started at 335lbs.
I am someone who has been overweight my whole life. Obese before able to understand what that even was. I was a normal weight as a small child, but right before elementary school I seemed to balloon up to obese. That’s how I started my school life. Obese. I never understood why people were so mean to me, picked on me, didn’t pick me; why I didn’t have huge groups of friends. I went through the majority of my adolescents like this, and guess it really became clear to me in middle school.
I wasn’t a pretty girl. There was something wrong with me. I was fat, ugly, whatever everyone called me. And at home, the commentary about my weight continued. From everyone but my mother, my enabler. Sometimes I wonder if she did it purposely, because I am 35 and still live with her and am miserable. And in hiding. Maybe she wanted that. I am her only child. She is divorced and never has been in a long term committed relationship. I am her everything. It is suffocating.
I went through a rough five years of chronic illness that ruined my life in countless ways. But while in the prison of it, I had the opportunity to look at my life in the big picture sense. I didn’t like any of it. I regretted everything. I didn’t have one thing that, if I died, I could smile back on and say, “At least I got to experience that.” I never thought I would be well again, lost my career, social life, family life, stability and money. I was homeless while being incredibly ill because no one could/would take care of me. My mother is financially unstable. My sinking led to her sinking. Two drowning people. I vowed that if I ever got better, I would live my life to the fullest. I would lose my weight. I would live the life I wanted to live. I sincerely didn’t think I would make it out of where I was alive, however. Then I went to a dr that diagnosed my autoimmune disease and saved me.
I have felt incredibly bitter towards my mother. In the depths of my illness, she was a liar, she put me in bad situations because she just couldn’t help herself. I honestly — from horrible mental health while sick — thought she was the devil at one point. That I died and was in hell and she was the devil disguised as my mother.
I guess today was hard for me because of built up resentment. Out of all of the other mother’s days we’ve been celebrating. I am particularly fcked up over this one. I had her take some full body pictures of me. I have this crazy double chin I am afraid will not go away even with weight loss, though I still have 130lbs to lose and am sure I will look very different either way. And I just…cannot connect to the way I look. I don’t feel like how I look. If I saw me in real life, I would feel bad for me. I would think she is mentally unwell. I would think someone ruined her life. She had to hide from something. I instantly didn’t want to follow through on any plans I had with my mom. I felt mentally unwell and wanted to stay in my room. And I mostly did.
I have been working on everything about myself the past few years. Shit personality traits. Bad habits. Unhealthy mindsets and unhealthy behaviors. I have been self correcting so much, which has been leading to discipline, but it’s not enough. Not fast enough. And it also feels like it doesn’t matter at all.
I am 35. 275lbs, up a few pounds from my lowest two months ago before I decided to fall off track again. After seeing my family, I should add. I keep my visits with them extremely limited because it’s unhealthy to be around them. Too much resentment. I work a remote, peanuts paying job that hardly respects me, though just promoted me last week. For slightly more peanuts. I am single. Childless. Haven’t been in a romantic relationship for fifteen years. I am lonely, horny, and completely unfulfilled. But I don’t know how to just turn everything around right now and get what I want. Because I can’t. Because it’s not how life works, sadly.
I went off on my mom. I am very candid about how I feel. As someone of childbearing age, I just look at her as someone who maybe shouldn’t have had a child. I didn’t grow up physically abused or homeless or anything terrible. I am likely selfish. But I was not directed or taught to live a good, healthy, happy and independent life. I was mentally and emotionally abused. Never given any tools to be successful. Any moment I could have had it easy was ruined by having zero direction. Like the money my grandmother left me that no longer exists because I was just allowed to spend it and go to hell with it. It feels like my life has been made to live on hard mode, and I have to correct every tiny detail just to set it remotely right again. And I am exhausted. Between illness and everything. I am so tired.
What is the point of having a child if you are not committed to giving them tools to have a good life? I don’t think I’ll even be able to have a child. I am already 35. Single because I am disgusting. Will be 36 before I am HOPEFULLY at my goal weight. I keep messing that up. Was supposed to be my goal weight at 35. Big whoops. And so what? I will be my goal with sagging disgusting skin and not even want to be seen naked. Or will opt for immediate skin removal surgery even though I can’t pay for it. And then have to heal from that and what, maybe just meet someone?? Just be able to stand myself naked in front of someone. And then be what, 38 when I finally can have a kid. But I’ll be too old to really have one. I feel like I wasn’t meant to be happy.
Even 60lbs down, I can’t see happiness at the end of it. I will have horrible sagging skin. I am having thinning hair from getting Covid and almost dying. I look disgusting. I wouldn’t look at me. I certainly wouldn’t look at me sexually. I can see why no one looks at me. I have crushes on people and I really shouldn’t. No one would look twice at me, and I wouldn’t blame them. I am disgusted with myself. I don’t think I will ever have the life I truly want. I want to dig a hole and sit in it. It feels hard to exist, and my life feels over.
2024.05.12 18:40 shaneka69 GEMINI ZODIAC MONEY PREDICTIONS MAY 2024
GEMINI ZODIAC MONEY PREDICTIONS MAY 2024
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2024.05.12 16:47 shaneka69 Being A Life Path 9: What It Means Numerology
Being A Life Path 9 Numerology
As a Life Path 9, you are going to be accustomed to groups and connections to people naturally. You are used to having people around you and you feel comfortable when that is the case, but as a Life Path 9, this lifetime is actually pushing you towards independence. You may be used to people dictating your life, choices, or whatever you have going on in which you allow people to have a say so. As a Life Path 9, you are growing into your own individuality where you would have to make choices you genuinely prefer to make without the interference of other people and what they have to say.Another way that this can play out is how you may lean on others and not lean on yourself enough. You may seek guidance or dependency via other people, or you get your motivation from others instead of yourself. You may do things for the sake of the group instead of yourself and this goes against your life path.
You are likely to be into gossip or you will know a lot about others and even yourself, but you may not implement what you know right away. As a Life Path 9, it is about applying wisdom and utilizing it in your physical reality. Use what you know to better yourself, but not in a way where you want to manipulate others.
Be careful of trying to overpower people because this will trigger your life path in a negative way by people pushing you away and not wanting much to do with you. You want to step into your independence in a positive way for the most part.
You are likely someone who enjoys the outdoors or you will more and more. Travel should be something you get into as this will ignite your life path in a healthy way. It will all depend though because you also should consider your nature by looking into your birthchart.
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2024.05.11 22:22 Ladysilvert (Spoilers extended) Jon's arch in ADWD, parallels with other Targs events
I liked a lot Jon's whole arch in ADWD, and specially after realising how George has filled the whole "Jon rescuing mission of FArya", which will be the main topic of this post, with references or parallels to other events in ASOIAF and specially, to other Targ events. Let's begin:
Jon sends Mance, disguised as "Abel the singer", to Winterfell in a rescue mission of Arya. It's a straightforward parallel to Bael the Bard myth, since Jon has learnt this story from Ygritte and later Mance. Mance is specially interested in the whole Bael story:
In the original Bael story, we have that Bael is deeply upset with the Lord of Winterfell for calling him a coward. So he disguises as a Bard to enter Winterfell. To reward him for his great music, the Lord of Winterfell offers him whatever he wants, and he chooses the most beautiful blooming flower. The next day, he has disappeared, kidnapping the daughter of Lord Stark, and leaving in her stead a blue winter rose. They searched for them for a long time, until the daughter appeared again with a baby boy, when House Stark was near extinction.
The reason why they never found them was because they had stayed hidden in the crypts, and she was really in love with Bael. Lord Stark raised the boy himself, and never revealed his true parentage. Said boy grew up to be Lord Stark and fought his biological father Bael who had became King beyond the Wall. Bael, who knew he was his son coudn't kill his child, and let the new Lord Stark killed him in battle. When Lord Stark's mother discovered what had happened, she threw herself from a window since she was still in love with Bael, and Lord Stark was slained by some Boltons.
This is clearly a reference to Jon's parents: Rhaegar was known for his love of music and deeply admired for playing the harp and singing. He alledgedly kidnapped the Lord of Winterfell's beautiful daughter Lyanna, who has been linked over and over again to blue roses, though we have reasons to believe Lyanna wasn't truly kidnapped and was in love with Rhaegar, same as Bael and his lady Stark. Jon was raised also by the Lord of Winterfell as his own, without knowing the truth of his real parentage.
Ygritte said this to Jon (which reminds me so much of the comment of Plumm in The Mystery knight btw when he proclaims they were all bastard Targs, I am so sure Maynard Plumm was really BloodRaven disguised)
There is a direct wink to ToJ in FArya rescue mission:
The thing is I believe Jon is himself mirroring Bael's story and Tower of Joy's scenario as Rhaegar or Bael. George makes it seem in a more obvious way that it's Mance the one to mirror those two, but the one to send Mance, the one that is "stealing a Stark bride" is Jon. And that's what Ramsay directly tells Jon is his letter.
Also, Jon is called a thief a lot, specially by wildlings for stealing women, though he didn't intend to "steal" Ygritte, he did it unintentionally. Here he is just trying to save his sister, but he is accused by Ramsay of stealing his bride Lady Stark, In a similar way, Rhaegar probably just eloped with Lyanna, and in Rhaegar's dumb lovesick mind he was "saving" his loved one from her fiancee (not comparing really Robert with Ramsay though, Rhaegar fucked up and Jon is just trying to save Arya from a monster).
Theon's quote reminds me a little of Rhaegar, too:
All three: Bael, Rhaegar and Jon have the same ending: they die because of their most beloved person.
But (finally) after talking about ToW and Bael the Bard, there is also a parallel between the Pink Letter and a Targ event which, to be true, we don't know almost nothing: The famous mysterious letter Aegon the Conqueror received, and that made him change his mind completely and admit Dorne was indepent.
I think if one of the most extended theories about the content of Aegon's letter ends up being right (Rhaenys being alive and tortured by the Ullers) it would make the Pink letter a very good parallel of Aegon's, since in both Aegon and Jon discover their beloved sister is alive, and that she is in the hands of the enemy, a House famous for torture and being sadists terrible people. So they would both had given up one of their biggest oaths and beliefs (for Aegon, conquering Dorne; for Jon, not breaking his vows) to save a beloved sister.
I for sure feel George is a genius for drawing so much parallels between stories within ASOIAF.
Aditionally, Bael the Bard and his son Lord Stark's endings are for sure infuenced by Greek's mythology: Bael's son would be Oedipus, who killed unknowingly his own father Laius, King of Thebes. After discovering this, his mother Jocasta killed herself (though in the Greek there was incest also in the tale, since Oedipus had married Jocasta without knowing she was his mother, weird that there was more incest in the original story than in ASOIAF story lol).
submitted by Ladysilvert to asoiaf [link] [comments]
Jon sends Mance, disguised as "Abel the singer", to Winterfell in a rescue mission of Arya. It's a straightforward parallel to Bael the Bard myth, since Jon has learnt this story from Ygritte and later Mance. Mance is specially interested in the whole Bael story:
A ranger of the Shadow Tower, Mance often sang of Bael the Bard after returning from rangings beyond the WallMance goes to Winterfell disguised as Abel, which is an anagram for "Bael" with 6 companions disguised as relatives, to snatch a Lady of Winterfell from the Lord of the Castle. It's obvious Mance was trying to recreate a story he has been fascinated with. But the interesting thing is that Bael the Bard is strongly tied to The Tower of Joy Event.
In the original Bael story, we have that Bael is deeply upset with the Lord of Winterfell for calling him a coward. So he disguises as a Bard to enter Winterfell. To reward him for his great music, the Lord of Winterfell offers him whatever he wants, and he chooses the most beautiful blooming flower. The next day, he has disappeared, kidnapping the daughter of Lord Stark, and leaving in her stead a blue winter rose. They searched for them for a long time, until the daughter appeared again with a baby boy, when House Stark was near extinction.
The reason why they never found them was because they had stayed hidden in the crypts, and she was really in love with Bael. Lord Stark raised the boy himself, and never revealed his true parentage. Said boy grew up to be Lord Stark and fought his biological father Bael who had became King beyond the Wall. Bael, who knew he was his son coudn't kill his child, and let the new Lord Stark killed him in battle. When Lord Stark's mother discovered what had happened, she threw herself from a window since she was still in love with Bael, and Lord Stark was slained by some Boltons.
This is clearly a reference to Jon's parents: Rhaegar was known for his love of music and deeply admired for playing the harp and singing. He alledgedly kidnapped the Lord of Winterfell's beautiful daughter Lyanna, who has been linked over and over again to blue roses, though we have reasons to believe Lyanna wasn't truly kidnapped and was in love with Rhaegar, same as Bael and his lady Stark. Jon was raised also by the Lord of Winterfell as his own, without knowing the truth of his real parentage.
Ygritte said this to Jon (which reminds me so much of the comment of Plumm in The Mystery knight btw when he proclaims they were all bastard Targs, I am so sure Maynard Plumm was really BloodRaven disguised)
Ygritte: So there it is—you have Bael's blood in you, same as me.Yes, Jon has Bael's blood (Rhaegar's blood).
Jon: It never happened.
Ygritte: Might be it did, might be it didn't. It is a good song, though
There is a direct wink to ToJ in FArya rescue mission:
At the end of Robert's Rebellion, Lord Eddard Stark and six of his companions (Howland Reed, Lord Willam Dustin, Ethan Glover, Martyn Cassel, Theo Wull, and and Ser Mark Ryskwell) approached the tower.Mance also went to rescue FArya with 6 companions
Mance infiltrates with Frenya, Holly, Myrtle, Rowan, Squirrel, and Willow.Curious fact: Squirrel is one of Arya's nicknames, and Willow is the name of a girl Brienne suspects to be Arya.
The thing is I believe Jon is himself mirroring Bael's story and Tower of Joy's scenario as Rhaegar or Bael. George makes it seem in a more obvious way that it's Mance the one to mirror those two, but the one to send Mance, the one that is "stealing a Stark bride" is Jon. And that's what Ramsay directly tells Jon is his letter.
Your false king's friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me. I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.In the bold sentences, Ramsay not only accuses him of stealing his bride. He also accuses him of being a liar. So, a thief and a liar. Funny how Jon said the same about Bael.
I want my bride back...Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it.
Jon: Your Bael was a liar. Ygritte: No, but a bard's truth is different than yours or mine.Technically Jon may be a liar, but he didn't know the truth of Mance and Rattleshirt until later when Melisandre reveals the hoax.
Also, Jon is called a thief a lot, specially by wildlings for stealing women, though he didn't intend to "steal" Ygritte, he did it unintentionally. Here he is just trying to save his sister, but he is accused by Ramsay of stealing his bride Lady Stark, In a similar way, Rhaegar probably just eloped with Lyanna, and in Rhaegar's dumb lovesick mind he was "saving" his loved one from her fiancee (not comparing really Robert with Ramsay though, Rhaegar fucked up and Jon is just trying to save Arya from a monster).
Theon's quote reminds me a little of Rhaegar, too:
Abel had doomed them. All singers were half-mad. In songs, the hero always saved the maiden from the monster's castle, but life was not a song.In the same way, Rhaegar ("the hero") eloped because of love with his maiden, but since life was not a song, he died and thousands suffered in the country,
All three: Bael, Rhaegar and Jon have the same ending: they die because of their most beloved person.
Bael died because of his love to his son.There's also a deeper parallel between Jon's death and Rhaegar's death. The last thing they thought of is of their loved one (Rhaegar of his woman, Jon of his sister Arya).
Rhaegar died because of his love to Lyanna
Jon died because of his love of Arya.
Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's nameGeorge confirmed the name was Lyanna.
“Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger’s hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. “Ghost,” he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the coldYes, the last word was Ghost, but the very last thought was a sentence he associates 100% with Arya, the person that indirectly caused his death (because of his love for her, he broke his vows and his brothers in the NW killed him), same as Rhaegar died against Robert because of the actions he had commiteed in his love for Lyanna.
But (finally) after talking about ToW and Bael the Bard, there is also a parallel between the Pink Letter and a Targ event which, to be true, we don't know almost nothing: The famous mysterious letter Aegon the Conqueror received, and that made him change his mind completely and admit Dorne was indepent.
Deria indeed suggested the peace, and it is said that King Aegon was about to refuse, when she handed him a letter from Nymor. King Aegon read the letter on the Iron Throne, allegedly clenching the bladed seat so hard his hand started to bleed, burned it once finished, and flew to Dragonstone on Balerion without a word. When he returned the next morning, he agreed to the peace and signed a treaty.Let's see Jon's reaction to Ramsay's Letters. The first one:
Ramsay Bolton, Lord of the Hornwood, it read, in a huge, spiky hand. The brown ink came away in flakes when Jon brushed it with his thumb. Beneath Bolton's signature, Lord Dustin, Lady Cerwyn, and four Ryswells had appended their own marks and seals. A cruder hand had drawn the giant of House Umber. "Might we know what it says, my lord?" asked Iron Emmett.Both Jon and Aegon receive a letter from the biggest enemy House (House Bolton, House Martell). The letter shakens both of them deeply, Jon clenching the paper in anger and Aegon clenching the throne till he bleeds. Jon feels deeply upset with this letter, but it's the Pink Letter that gets the biggest reaction out of him.
Jon saw no reason not to tell him. "Moat Cailin is taken. The flayed corpses of the ironmen have been nailed to posts along the kingsroad. Roose Bolton summons all leal lords to Barrowton, to affirm their loyalty to the Iron Throne and celebrate his son's wedding to …" His heart seemed to stop for a moment. No, that is not possible. She died in King's Landing, with Father....... By now she’d be eleven, Jon thought. Still a child. “I have no sister. Only brothers. Only you.” Lady Catelyn would have rejoiced to hear those words, he knew. That did not make them easier to say. His fingers closed around the parchment. Would that they could crush Ramsay Bolton’s throat as easily. (Jon VI, ADWD)
Jon flexed the fingers of his sword hand. The Night’s Watch takes no part. He closed his fist and opened it again. What you propose is nothing less than treason. He thought of Robb, with snowflakes melting in his hair. Kill the boy and let the man be born. He thought of Bran, clambering up a tower wall, agile as a monkey. Of Rickon’s breathless laughter. Of Sansa, brushing out Lady’s coat and singing to herself. You know nothing, Jon Snow. He thought of Arya, her hair as tangled as a bird’s nest. I made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell … I want my bride back … I want my bride back … I want my bride back … “I think we had best change the plan,” Jon Snow said.Both Aegon and Jon have a complete change of heart after reading the letter's contents, and both take action: Jon intends to save his sister, leaving Castle Black where he is the "ruler", to Winterfell, the ancestral seat of his family. Aegon leaves KL where he is King of the IT to Dragonstone, which is the ancestral seat of his family. Now, from here pure speculation:
"The Night's Watch takes no part in the wars of the Seven Kingdoms," Jon reminded them when some semblance of quiet had returned. "It is not for us to oppose the Bastard of Bolton, to avenge Stannis Baratheon, to defend his widow and his daughter. This creature who makes cloaks from the skins of women has sworn to cut my heart out, and I mean to make him answer for those words ... but I will not ask my brothers to forswear their vows.
"The Night's Watch will make for Hardhome. I ride to Winterfell alone, unless ..." Jon paused. "... is there any man here who will come stand with me?"
I think if one of the most extended theories about the content of Aegon's letter ends up being right (Rhaenys being alive and tortured by the Ullers) it would make the Pink letter a very good parallel of Aegon's, since in both Aegon and Jon discover their beloved sister is alive, and that she is in the hands of the enemy, a House famous for torture and being sadists terrible people. So they would both had given up one of their biggest oaths and beliefs (for Aegon, conquering Dorne; for Jon, not breaking his vows) to save a beloved sister.
I for sure feel George is a genius for drawing so much parallels between stories within ASOIAF.
Aditionally, Bael the Bard and his son Lord Stark's endings are for sure infuenced by Greek's mythology: Bael's son would be Oedipus, who killed unknowingly his own father Laius, King of Thebes. After discovering this, his mother Jocasta killed herself (though in the Greek there was incest also in the tale, since Oedipus had married Jocasta without knowing she was his mother, weird that there was more incest in the original story than in ASOIAF story lol).
2024.05.11 14:27 MGT1111 13 Maladaptive Defense Mechanisms Against the Healing of Destructive Emotion and Painful Experiences as an Emotional Barter Deal in Polyamory and Nonmonogamy: Projective Identification in Polyamorous and Nonmonogamous Abuse!
When a person expels an unacceptable behaviour or action, it may well be onto another person. Projective identification is used to project the bad behaviour or action into (not onto) another person so it becomes a part of that person. The person then identifies with that other person, and hence has means to control them.The person projected into may consequently be pressured to behave congruently with the projective phantasy, believing and accepting their role. The projecting person may also seek to be physically close to the person into whom the fantasy is projected. Projective identification may also be used to externalize confusing or uncertain aspects of the self so they can be studied more objectively and then re-internalized in a more acceptable form.
The concept of projective identification can be described as a type of defense mechanism or strategy employed by the unconscious mind, that allows an individual to deny or distort reality (create a fantasy) in order to maintain a socially acceptable self-image. Applied to polyamory and ENM this means that projective identification allows the polyamorist unconsciously to deny or distort the million of years proven reality of monogamy and pair bonding as one of the most deep seated hallmarks of the human species in order to maintaim a socially acceptable image despite the attept to rationalize infidelity and systemically institutionalise adultery as well as acitively abusing their spouses and mistreating them. As result, the manipulated victim begins to behave congruently with the projective phantasy, believing and accepting their role, as I have outlined above.
This takes place also or maybe especially during an interpersonal interaction in which the projector pressures the projected into thinking, feeling, and acting in accordance with the projection. In polyamory and ENM this may take place as the nonmonogamist applies pressure and manipulation on a reluctant spouse or proselytize monogamous people into polyamory
In other words, projective identification consists not only in the projection of negative aspects of oneself onto others but also in the pressure exerted on the other for him to act in a way that is congruent with what is being projected. For instance, a polyamorist or a practitioner of polyamory projects his unfaithfulness unto others believing everyone is a cheater, promiscous, und faithful anf monogamy isn't natural. Then, after rationalizing and trying institutionalizing infidelity, they procceed to proselytize others to act in the same way. The polyamorous war and crucade against monogamy, the mass shaming of monogamous people and the phenomenon of the polyamorous industroal and media complex, are all rooted and are expression of said projective identification.
Another form of projective identification happens on the relational level between two partner either by polybombing, enforcing a mono poly relationship on a monogamous spouse by exploiting her or his weaknesses or by trying to manipulate and gaslight a reluctant partner. Projective identification here is the process by which a thought or feeling is projected into the reluctant monogamous partner, then interacting with that person to make him/her experience the projected feeling. As if the other person becomes the container for affect they cannot tolerate themselves. As such and by using tactics of manipulation and gaslighting, projective identification often crosses the line into the realm of emotional abuse.
Projective identification goes also the other way aroung. It is most hazardous when the victim, the person who has been projected onto, intetnalize the content of projection, and starts to believe the agressor, namely the person who is projecting. In this case, Projective identification is when someone has been projected onto, and they internalize those qualities believing them to be truthful. This means that the judgments, negative feelings, or deficiencies that someone cannot accept themselves are then blamed onto another person, who, in turn, due to fear of loss, loneliness or abondonment, gives credence to those statements by rationalizing everything.
While there are many different types of defense mechanisms, projection and projective identification is perhaps the one that inflicts the most collateral damage. When someone is projecting, they are denying their inadequacies, failings, and other negative emotions and parts of the self and displacing them onto someone else. When the other person fell prey and internalizes evreything, the projecting person succeeded in succumbing someone into suffering and the projected on person lives nowin the word of agonizing suffering.
In polyamory this scenario plays out when a polyamorist polybombs, manipulates, gaslights, emotionally blackmails or plays on the insecurities of the reluctant spouses. Quite a seizable size and even great portion of those who engage in monogamy are spouses who were afraid to loose the partner and did not enthusiastically or realy wholeheartedly but quite reluctantly agreed to non monogamy.
In the previois article, I've elaborated on projection as a defense mechanism within the context of cluster B disorder and narcissim and abuse which pervasively overlaps with polyamory and nonmonogamy. To put it simply and ss extinuation, projective identification is a form of abuse that happens when a polyamoristand nonmongamit exhibit narcissitic tendencies, not being able to deal with their problems and past traumas, the shadow side of themselves. Instead of directly dealing with these undesirable aspects of their personality, they use you as an emotional dumping ground, exclaiming, "I don't want these feelings; you take them."
Thus, it is worth mentioning that when they treat you like you're inherently "bad," posessive, controlling, unappealling, dumb, a loser, or worthless, a well know polyamorous and nonmonogamous tactic of monogamy shaming, it's a clear evidence, they're projecting the parts of themselves they dislike onto you. It's a common tactic nonmonogamist and polyamorists share with narcissist, overt or covert. Unlike more obvious forms of abuse, projective identification as a form of mental and emotional abuse, operates on a subconscious level and has a profound impact on the recipient—the spouse or partner of a narcissistic polyamorist and nonmonogamist.
From the standpoint the psychoanalytic theory, what makes projective identification different from "simple" projection is that projective identification combines elements of both projection and introjection. The projector thrusts their emotions, thoughts, or traits onto the recipient and induces a compelling psychological influence that prompts the recipient to internalize and identify with these projected elements. Polybombing as well as polyamorous or nonmonogamous councelling sessions with a reluctant monogamous spouse, are prime examples of projection and projective identtification as a form of narcissistic abuse.
In the above example, this twofold nature turns the reluctant and monogamous partner into an unconscious collaborator in the drama, as they unknowingly internalize the projected attributes as their own. It is not just about the polyamorist and nonmonogamist projecting emotions outwardly but it also binds the reluctant paryner and the monogamous recipient in a shared emotional narrative when they internalize the abuse, blurring the lines between self and other.
Experiencing such projective identification is synonymous with enduring a profound and sustained form of gaslighting which is anothetr aspect of narcissistic abuse as applied by polyamorist and non monogamist too. The constant projection of the partners and often the poly or nonmonogamy therapist's unresolved emotions, fears, or insecurities onto you creates a distorted reality in which the experiences of the reluctant monogamous partners are systematically invalidated. The result is a pervasive sense of confusion and self-doubt, akin to living in a perpetual state of polyamorous and nonmonogamous gaslighting.
Esxperiencing such gaslighting and abuse over time, the reluctant and monogamous spouse begin to internalize the false narrative, the distorted sense of reality, doubting the authenticity of their own experiences. The insidious nature of this dynamic compounds the trauma, as you start to believe you are the one who made up your trauma. Heinz Kohut's, a psychologist, explains that individuals with narcissistic traits have fragile self-structures and struggle with a lack of mirroring and empathy during their development. Their self-esteem is fragile, so when they encounter aspects of themselves they find undesirable or threatening, they resort to projecting them outward onto others
Polyamorists and nonmonogamists use projection as a defense mechanism to be rid of parts of themselves they do not want to face. Polyamorous and nonmonogamous projective identification takes it a step further—it involves projecting and compelling the the reluctant monogamous spouse, actually the monogamous majority, to internalize and identify with these projections, both as a personal as well as collective form of abuse. The spouse and as extention everyone that is monogamous monogamous, becomes an emotional dumping ground and punching bag for the polyamorous and nonmonogamous mental issues.
Imagine a situation in which a a polyamorist and nonmonogamist uses projective identification to inject their feelings of insecurity, worthlessness, unworthiness and inadequacy onto you. In this psychological movie, you would find yourself enveloped in a swamp of insecurity, inadequacy, worthlessness and unworthiness thinking it originates from yourself rather than something your spouse have injected into you. The subtlety of this form of narcissistic poly and nonmonogamous abuse lies in its unconscious nature. As the projector, the polyamorous and nonmonogamous spouse remains oblivious to their role as the emotional scripter, and you, as the the unconcious recipient, are equally unaware of the emotional script being imposed upon you.
Instead of working on themselves through personal growth, therapy, or addressing past traumas, they hand off their emotional baggage to you. Unconsciously, they resort to different tactics, all to make you believe that their shame and self hatred are somehow your own issues. Adding to the complexity, polyamorists and nonmonogamists might unknowingly replay their own childhood traumas while living with you. It is like a subconscious replay button, where they make you feel the same way they did when they were growing up—worthless, insecure, inadequate, betrayed, abondoned, unworthy, ashamed, and in constant fear of loneliness. So, when they behave this way, they pass on their unwanted shame, urging you to carry and absorb their burdon as your emotional baggage.
Based on the theory of Ogden, one can say that projective identification as in regard to narcissism and by extention to polyamory and nonmonogamy has three steps:
a. The unconscious impulse of projecting a painful or destructive part of ones own shadow into another person and of that part taking over the person from within.
b. A conscious interpersonal interaction by means of manipulation and gaslighting brings pressure on other to think and act like the projection.
c. The reintrojection ot internalization of the projection after it is psychologically processed and then internalized by the other. This processing by the other is also an unconscious process.
The drive or the impulse of controlling the other person from within is key to projective identification, and the result takes place not merely in the mind. This is not a virtual pressure, but rather, real one exerted by means gaslighting and emotional manipulation based a multitude of interactions between the projector and the recipient. Projective identification does not exist where there is no interaction between projector and recipient. Though done intentially, the pressure itself is more overt and hidden aspect of behavior. It's message, though unstated, is "if you are not what I want you to be, you don’t exist for me"
As I also said in my article on projection, though highly developed as theories, they are all the same extremely subtle mental projections, garbed in an intricate metaphysical and philosophical phraseology about love, understading, caring and sharing. These ideas are so deep-rooted in narcissists, polyamorists and nonmonogamist, and so near and dear to them, that they do not wish to hear, nor do they want to understand, any teaching against them. In fact, they pervert the meanings of these important values to create a false narrative of their meanings. So, how does it work? Let's see.
Though projective identification is clearly an intrusion and an offence against another person, narcissists and by extention nonmonogamist and polyamorists, distort the meaning of intrusion and gaslighting and paint a cosy picture of the abuse as the most fundamental reflection of their desire to be heard and understood. In other words, through intricate mental processes of distortion, denial, delusion and self deception, the abuse turned into love and the need to be heard. Seems familiar? Of course, that's the first line of defense, domestic abuser use when battering their spouses, for instance.
Narcissists go on to abuse and pervert and very important value of human being wanted to be acknowledge of their suffering. Healthy people seek to air their feelings and their suffering to be acknowlodging. They seek support but they don't wish others to dwell in agony. Unhealthy poeple, look for others not really to perfectly understand their suffering, but they do require them to take on their suffering. Polyamorists as well as nonmonogamists do exactly that. Because it's quite clear to identify this kind of abuse and see projective identification for what it is, an aggressive form of interpersonal violence, the narcissit, the polyamorist and nonmonogamisy resort to a more covert tactic. They, again, describe this kind of abuse and paint a cosy picture of just being another way to look at it as though that it is the most primal and fundamental way of sharing an unbearable experience, and that an act of sharing may be an act of love. When, you hear, for instance, swingers and polyamorista spew the infamous "sharing is carring", those are the extremely subtle mental processes, garbed in an intricate metaphysical and philosophical phraseology about love, understading, caring and sharing, that excuse the evil.
Both projection as well as projective identification are a fundamental concepts in understanding violence and abuse. While projection is more easier to grasp, projective identification is a more covert tactic to be aggressive while appearing to be the nice or the victim. The bully seeks validation, the perverted sense of being "understood" by others, by means of making the spouse and others believe, it's them the problem, while they walk scot-free.
Moreover, projection and projective identification, are not just mere Freudian defense mechanisms, they are powerful tool for justifying aggression, violence and abuse. The narcissist, the polyamorist, the nonmonogamist, the borderline personality, and other people that have regressed to a shallow level, will project accusations like a firehose, they will use them to gaslight and emotionally manipulate the spouse to believe it's not them, the abuser being the problem but the victim itself, and the increasingly wild nature of the accusations will reflect the decay of their mental condition. The cognitive dissonance in the head is reflected by the increasingly contradictory and mutually exclusive accusations they hurl.
In other words, projective identification is a way of getting the proof of that horrible but elusive something about the other person, a way to get group (or personal false sense of) validation, praise, and attention. This quote from Wikipedia is way too technical but let's rephrase it. Projective identification is a term first used by Melanie Klein (1946) to describe a process whereby parts of the ego are thought of as forced into another person who is then expected to become identified with whatever has been projected. Understand it now or maybe not? Well, that may be way too obscure, so let's rephrase it again.The projector strives to find in the other, or to induce the other to become, the very embodiment of projection..... their behavior towards the object of projection invokes in that person precisely the thoughts, feelings or behaviors projected.
Now it is clearer - instead of just making foolish ad hominem attacks, the aggressor tries to bait a victim into giving them the proof they need so desperately to validate their own suppressed rage, anger and hatred. Then they can rally their friends or family for an attack. Bonus points are awarded for gaining sympathy and being the center of attention. The manipulator poses as a poor victim, but orchestrates the whole performance for an audience. I guess it could be used for good, but it seems like it's always a form of aggression, specifically covert aggression. Those processes are very known tactics applied by polyamorists whether they polybomb their spouse, nuke the relationshipwith nonmonogamy or engaging in monogamy shaming.
Probably the easiest way to understand this is to review projection and projective identification and and see the difference. So, how works the twofold nature ofprohection and orojective identification abuse? Here is an example:
First, cones projection:
1) A liar accuses others of lying.
2) The cheater accuses others of cheating.
3) The thief accuses others of stealing.
4) The polyamorist and nonmonogamist accuses others of bein cheaters, unthrustworthy, promiscous and sexually permissive
(Notice how the abuser is, generally, accusing everyone, yet, not accusing them of any transgression, but only the one he's obsessed with namely his own?)
And, then, follows, projective identification:
1) An angry person accuses their victim of being angry, until the victim becomes angry.
2) An depressed person accuses their victim of being depressed, until the victim becomes depressed.
3) The parent constantly accuses their child of being defiant until the child becomes defiant.
4) The person who feels crazy accuses the other of being crazy (projection of bad thoughts) with the intention of making them believe they are crazy ("gaslighting").
5) The polyamorist and nonmonogamist accuses everyone and especially their spouses of being cheaters, unthrustworthy, promiscuous and sexually permissive with the aim at proselytizing them until they succumb and convert to the polyamorous and nonmonogamous cult
(notice how the effort has shifted now to one specific victim, an individual or a collective, until they succumb and, internalize the abuse hurled at them and begin to act in the spirit of the projected incentive)
Likewise, projective identification differs from the simple projection in that projective identification can become a self-fulfilling prophecy, whereby the projector hating certain parts about their existence and nature, carring a perveted or distorted understanding of reality based on self deception carry a false narrative and an intencive to influence and coerce the recipient to carry out the precise content of the projection and its goal so that the projector now get the justification and confirmation that the unwanted parts are no more perceived as bad but legitimate, hence, now other people are having them too. In extreme cases, the recipient may lose any sense of their real essense of existence and become reduced to the passive carrier of outside projections as if possessed by them. This phenomenon has been noted as being rooted gaslighting.
Within the context of polyamory and nonmonogamy, projective identification projective identification become a self-fulfilling prophecy, when the projector hating certain parts about their existence and nature, related to our monogamous parts, monogamous relationships and past traumes telating and resulting from them, carring a distorted understanding of the monogamous reality as well as distorted view of the nonmonogamous nature and based on self deception carry a false narrative and an intencive to influence and coerce the monogamous recipients to carry out the precise content of the projection and its goal so that the projector now get the justification and confirmation that the unwanted parts are no more perceived as bad but legitimate, hence, now other people are having them too. As we have said, in these cases, the recipient loses any sense of their real essense of their existence and becomes reduced to the passive carrier of outside projections as if possessed by them. That's why polyamory and nonmonogamy are abusive and represent a form of intimate partnet violence
The very nature of this behavior is exatcly what is understood as projective identification. It reflects the fact that the assumptions made by the projector about the recipient and reality reveal the projectors unconscious impulses, drives, traits, desires and delusions, their perceptions about themselves, their inner worlds, the others, the othrr's inner world as well as the external world, especially the projector's most primal fears and destructive emotion, attitudes and traits. Because the projector is incapable to take responsibility of them, they project their inner toxicity onto the recipieny, and in doing so the recipient aims at disowning them. This pushing off of unnaceptable aspects of the projector's personality represents the lack of accountability and exibits the narcissistic attemot of blame shifting. It stands at the root of this kind of behaviour. In the projector's unconscious mind this is perceived as the benefit of of the emotional barter deal yearning to avoid suffering by means of deception or escapism, yet, in reality it only creates more suffering.
At the core of this emotional barter deal the principle, the concept or the perception of “as if”. That is, the projector engaging in this defense mechanism is basically creating baseless assumptions of no corresponding reality about the incentives and the nature of the recipient, the external world as well as reality itself. Having created a virtual picture for oneself instead of reality, the recipient, then, goes on to behave as if their assumptions are valid. In other words, the projector engaging in this kind of behaviour projects , perceptions, motives, axioms, and emotions onto the recipient and then identifies with those projected traits and hallmarks, reincorporates them, and acts accordingly. Projective identification is, therefore, a kind of closed circuit, which typically serves a self-fulfilling prophecy, as mentioned above, because it causes the recipient to drown in the projector’s closed loop. This is the stage that is interactive between projector and recipient. Though the projectors maneuvers follow a self-contained loop, they enforce it with such pathos, they draw the recipient right into becoming an active player in the movie that the projetor ha created which has now brought the recipient into the third stage.
What happens when the projector's painted picture or created movie also incorporates promiscuity, infidelity, adultery and an extramarital relationships? Can a projector coerce and manipulate with gaslighting the recipient as enacnct that triangulate which is destructive marriages and relationships? I want not to discuss a term I borrowed from Robert Mendelson that is collusive infidelity and discus it in this exact context and in relation to polyamory and nonmonogamy.
Subsequently and relating to polyamory and nonmonogamy, collusive nonmonogamous adultery or collusive nonmonogamy is a situation where either there is a reluctant partner or one partner is less interested than the other and the more willing nonmonogamous partner unconsciously coercing the other partner to engage in an adultery and a promiscuous behavior with an outsider to the marriage. Neither member of the couple is conscious of the collusion that is the coercive aspect, so that the partner who is already committing adultery or is acting in ways typical of someone who wishes to do this. That is, he or she is either already pursuing an affair, having someone on mind ready to go or just planning in general terms to do so while keeing the secrets and conflict of interest inherent in the practice.
This act requires not only skill in deception, but also denial, distortion, rationalization, compartmentalization and more. To hide an actual affair or planning to do so while encouraging the other partner to think that his or her suspicions are ridiculous or that their unwillingness to do so is a result of ther infiiority, backwardness and unopeness requires a high level of wicked lying and evil manipulation commonly acknowledged as gaslighting. Polybombing, taking a reluctant monogamous partner to poly therapist or even suggesting such a partner tries to hear out and understand the monogamous spouse are some example for such evil behaviour
Collusion, however, is more active than mere enabling which can bemore passive. Coersion by means of gaslighting and deception is the crucial aspect of collusion as I have described it above. Collusion embodies a more active role of involvement in the marital recipient's enactments. In other words, a colludeding may also mean enabling but an enabling is not necessarily colluding. Whereas an enabler simply may simply ignorethe situation trying to adjust to the situation with someone who acts out his or her addictions, the projector's enabling involves primarily conscious and unconscious behaviour, that is, he or she are active agents of coercion.
While collusion means a consciously effort on the projector's part, that is, he or she, both on the unconscious as well as on the conscious level, are planning, plotting and executing a plan, the enabling recipient being more weak or codependent simply allows the situation to happen by turning a blind eye to it or keeps quite as not to shake the boat. Similar to the cheater, a nonmonogamist acting in this way by means of projective indentification, sets a goal and achieves a moral equivalency in which his unacceptable behaviour is whitewashed and he get's the justification he's seeking. The cheater would say, "you see, you also did it, that's o.k." and the polyamorist or nonmonogamist would proclaim, "you see, you did it, it was you being unreasonable". Clear tactics of gaslighting.
submitted by MGT1111 to InDefenseOfMonogamy [link] [comments]
The concept of projective identification can be described as a type of defense mechanism or strategy employed by the unconscious mind, that allows an individual to deny or distort reality (create a fantasy) in order to maintain a socially acceptable self-image. Applied to polyamory and ENM this means that projective identification allows the polyamorist unconsciously to deny or distort the million of years proven reality of monogamy and pair bonding as one of the most deep seated hallmarks of the human species in order to maintaim a socially acceptable image despite the attept to rationalize infidelity and systemically institutionalise adultery as well as acitively abusing their spouses and mistreating them. As result, the manipulated victim begins to behave congruently with the projective phantasy, believing and accepting their role, as I have outlined above.
This takes place also or maybe especially during an interpersonal interaction in which the projector pressures the projected into thinking, feeling, and acting in accordance with the projection. In polyamory and ENM this may take place as the nonmonogamist applies pressure and manipulation on a reluctant spouse or proselytize monogamous people into polyamory
In other words, projective identification consists not only in the projection of negative aspects of oneself onto others but also in the pressure exerted on the other for him to act in a way that is congruent with what is being projected. For instance, a polyamorist or a practitioner of polyamory projects his unfaithfulness unto others believing everyone is a cheater, promiscous, und faithful anf monogamy isn't natural. Then, after rationalizing and trying institutionalizing infidelity, they procceed to proselytize others to act in the same way. The polyamorous war and crucade against monogamy, the mass shaming of monogamous people and the phenomenon of the polyamorous industroal and media complex, are all rooted and are expression of said projective identification.
Another form of projective identification happens on the relational level between two partner either by polybombing, enforcing a mono poly relationship on a monogamous spouse by exploiting her or his weaknesses or by trying to manipulate and gaslight a reluctant partner. Projective identification here is the process by which a thought or feeling is projected into the reluctant monogamous partner, then interacting with that person to make him/her experience the projected feeling. As if the other person becomes the container for affect they cannot tolerate themselves. As such and by using tactics of manipulation and gaslighting, projective identification often crosses the line into the realm of emotional abuse.
Projective identification goes also the other way aroung. It is most hazardous when the victim, the person who has been projected onto, intetnalize the content of projection, and starts to believe the agressor, namely the person who is projecting. In this case, Projective identification is when someone has been projected onto, and they internalize those qualities believing them to be truthful. This means that the judgments, negative feelings, or deficiencies that someone cannot accept themselves are then blamed onto another person, who, in turn, due to fear of loss, loneliness or abondonment, gives credence to those statements by rationalizing everything.
While there are many different types of defense mechanisms, projection and projective identification is perhaps the one that inflicts the most collateral damage. When someone is projecting, they are denying their inadequacies, failings, and other negative emotions and parts of the self and displacing them onto someone else. When the other person fell prey and internalizes evreything, the projecting person succeeded in succumbing someone into suffering and the projected on person lives nowin the word of agonizing suffering.
In polyamory this scenario plays out when a polyamorist polybombs, manipulates, gaslights, emotionally blackmails or plays on the insecurities of the reluctant spouses. Quite a seizable size and even great portion of those who engage in monogamy are spouses who were afraid to loose the partner and did not enthusiastically or realy wholeheartedly but quite reluctantly agreed to non monogamy.
In the previois article, I've elaborated on projection as a defense mechanism within the context of cluster B disorder and narcissim and abuse which pervasively overlaps with polyamory and nonmonogamy. To put it simply and ss extinuation, projective identification is a form of abuse that happens when a polyamoristand nonmongamit exhibit narcissitic tendencies, not being able to deal with their problems and past traumas, the shadow side of themselves. Instead of directly dealing with these undesirable aspects of their personality, they use you as an emotional dumping ground, exclaiming, "I don't want these feelings; you take them."
Thus, it is worth mentioning that when they treat you like you're inherently "bad," posessive, controlling, unappealling, dumb, a loser, or worthless, a well know polyamorous and nonmonogamous tactic of monogamy shaming, it's a clear evidence, they're projecting the parts of themselves they dislike onto you. It's a common tactic nonmonogamist and polyamorists share with narcissist, overt or covert. Unlike more obvious forms of abuse, projective identification as a form of mental and emotional abuse, operates on a subconscious level and has a profound impact on the recipient—the spouse or partner of a narcissistic polyamorist and nonmonogamist.
From the standpoint the psychoanalytic theory, what makes projective identification different from "simple" projection is that projective identification combines elements of both projection and introjection. The projector thrusts their emotions, thoughts, or traits onto the recipient and induces a compelling psychological influence that prompts the recipient to internalize and identify with these projected elements. Polybombing as well as polyamorous or nonmonogamous councelling sessions with a reluctant monogamous spouse, are prime examples of projection and projective identtification as a form of narcissistic abuse.
In the above example, this twofold nature turns the reluctant and monogamous partner into an unconscious collaborator in the drama, as they unknowingly internalize the projected attributes as their own. It is not just about the polyamorist and nonmonogamist projecting emotions outwardly but it also binds the reluctant paryner and the monogamous recipient in a shared emotional narrative when they internalize the abuse, blurring the lines between self and other.
Experiencing such projective identification is synonymous with enduring a profound and sustained form of gaslighting which is anothetr aspect of narcissistic abuse as applied by polyamorist and non monogamist too. The constant projection of the partners and often the poly or nonmonogamy therapist's unresolved emotions, fears, or insecurities onto you creates a distorted reality in which the experiences of the reluctant monogamous partners are systematically invalidated. The result is a pervasive sense of confusion and self-doubt, akin to living in a perpetual state of polyamorous and nonmonogamous gaslighting.
Esxperiencing such gaslighting and abuse over time, the reluctant and monogamous spouse begin to internalize the false narrative, the distorted sense of reality, doubting the authenticity of their own experiences. The insidious nature of this dynamic compounds the trauma, as you start to believe you are the one who made up your trauma. Heinz Kohut's, a psychologist, explains that individuals with narcissistic traits have fragile self-structures and struggle with a lack of mirroring and empathy during their development. Their self-esteem is fragile, so when they encounter aspects of themselves they find undesirable or threatening, they resort to projecting them outward onto others
Polyamorists and nonmonogamists use projection as a defense mechanism to be rid of parts of themselves they do not want to face. Polyamorous and nonmonogamous projective identification takes it a step further—it involves projecting and compelling the the reluctant monogamous spouse, actually the monogamous majority, to internalize and identify with these projections, both as a personal as well as collective form of abuse. The spouse and as extention everyone that is monogamous monogamous, becomes an emotional dumping ground and punching bag for the polyamorous and nonmonogamous mental issues.
Imagine a situation in which a a polyamorist and nonmonogamist uses projective identification to inject their feelings of insecurity, worthlessness, unworthiness and inadequacy onto you. In this psychological movie, you would find yourself enveloped in a swamp of insecurity, inadequacy, worthlessness and unworthiness thinking it originates from yourself rather than something your spouse have injected into you. The subtlety of this form of narcissistic poly and nonmonogamous abuse lies in its unconscious nature. As the projector, the polyamorous and nonmonogamous spouse remains oblivious to their role as the emotional scripter, and you, as the the unconcious recipient, are equally unaware of the emotional script being imposed upon you.
Instead of working on themselves through personal growth, therapy, or addressing past traumas, they hand off their emotional baggage to you. Unconsciously, they resort to different tactics, all to make you believe that their shame and self hatred are somehow your own issues. Adding to the complexity, polyamorists and nonmonogamists might unknowingly replay their own childhood traumas while living with you. It is like a subconscious replay button, where they make you feel the same way they did when they were growing up—worthless, insecure, inadequate, betrayed, abondoned, unworthy, ashamed, and in constant fear of loneliness. So, when they behave this way, they pass on their unwanted shame, urging you to carry and absorb their burdon as your emotional baggage.
Based on the theory of Ogden, one can say that projective identification as in regard to narcissism and by extention to polyamory and nonmonogamy has three steps:
a. The unconscious impulse of projecting a painful or destructive part of ones own shadow into another person and of that part taking over the person from within.
b. A conscious interpersonal interaction by means of manipulation and gaslighting brings pressure on other to think and act like the projection.
c. The reintrojection ot internalization of the projection after it is psychologically processed and then internalized by the other. This processing by the other is also an unconscious process.
The drive or the impulse of controlling the other person from within is key to projective identification, and the result takes place not merely in the mind. This is not a virtual pressure, but rather, real one exerted by means gaslighting and emotional manipulation based a multitude of interactions between the projector and the recipient. Projective identification does not exist where there is no interaction between projector and recipient. Though done intentially, the pressure itself is more overt and hidden aspect of behavior. It's message, though unstated, is "if you are not what I want you to be, you don’t exist for me"
As I also said in my article on projection, though highly developed as theories, they are all the same extremely subtle mental projections, garbed in an intricate metaphysical and philosophical phraseology about love, understading, caring and sharing. These ideas are so deep-rooted in narcissists, polyamorists and nonmonogamist, and so near and dear to them, that they do not wish to hear, nor do they want to understand, any teaching against them. In fact, they pervert the meanings of these important values to create a false narrative of their meanings. So, how does it work? Let's see.
Though projective identification is clearly an intrusion and an offence against another person, narcissists and by extention nonmonogamist and polyamorists, distort the meaning of intrusion and gaslighting and paint a cosy picture of the abuse as the most fundamental reflection of their desire to be heard and understood. In other words, through intricate mental processes of distortion, denial, delusion and self deception, the abuse turned into love and the need to be heard. Seems familiar? Of course, that's the first line of defense, domestic abuser use when battering their spouses, for instance.
Narcissists go on to abuse and pervert and very important value of human being wanted to be acknowledge of their suffering. Healthy people seek to air their feelings and their suffering to be acknowlodging. They seek support but they don't wish others to dwell in agony. Unhealthy poeple, look for others not really to perfectly understand their suffering, but they do require them to take on their suffering. Polyamorists as well as nonmonogamists do exactly that. Because it's quite clear to identify this kind of abuse and see projective identification for what it is, an aggressive form of interpersonal violence, the narcissit, the polyamorist and nonmonogamisy resort to a more covert tactic. They, again, describe this kind of abuse and paint a cosy picture of just being another way to look at it as though that it is the most primal and fundamental way of sharing an unbearable experience, and that an act of sharing may be an act of love. When, you hear, for instance, swingers and polyamorista spew the infamous "sharing is carring", those are the extremely subtle mental processes, garbed in an intricate metaphysical and philosophical phraseology about love, understading, caring and sharing, that excuse the evil.
Both projection as well as projective identification are a fundamental concepts in understanding violence and abuse. While projection is more easier to grasp, projective identification is a more covert tactic to be aggressive while appearing to be the nice or the victim. The bully seeks validation, the perverted sense of being "understood" by others, by means of making the spouse and others believe, it's them the problem, while they walk scot-free.
Moreover, projection and projective identification, are not just mere Freudian defense mechanisms, they are powerful tool for justifying aggression, violence and abuse. The narcissist, the polyamorist, the nonmonogamist, the borderline personality, and other people that have regressed to a shallow level, will project accusations like a firehose, they will use them to gaslight and emotionally manipulate the spouse to believe it's not them, the abuser being the problem but the victim itself, and the increasingly wild nature of the accusations will reflect the decay of their mental condition. The cognitive dissonance in the head is reflected by the increasingly contradictory and mutually exclusive accusations they hurl.
In other words, projective identification is a way of getting the proof of that horrible but elusive something about the other person, a way to get group (or personal false sense of) validation, praise, and attention. This quote from Wikipedia is way too technical but let's rephrase it. Projective identification is a term first used by Melanie Klein (1946) to describe a process whereby parts of the ego are thought of as forced into another person who is then expected to become identified with whatever has been projected. Understand it now or maybe not? Well, that may be way too obscure, so let's rephrase it again.The projector strives to find in the other, or to induce the other to become, the very embodiment of projection..... their behavior towards the object of projection invokes in that person precisely the thoughts, feelings or behaviors projected.
Now it is clearer - instead of just making foolish ad hominem attacks, the aggressor tries to bait a victim into giving them the proof they need so desperately to validate their own suppressed rage, anger and hatred. Then they can rally their friends or family for an attack. Bonus points are awarded for gaining sympathy and being the center of attention. The manipulator poses as a poor victim, but orchestrates the whole performance for an audience. I guess it could be used for good, but it seems like it's always a form of aggression, specifically covert aggression. Those processes are very known tactics applied by polyamorists whether they polybomb their spouse, nuke the relationshipwith nonmonogamy or engaging in monogamy shaming.
Probably the easiest way to understand this is to review projection and projective identification and and see the difference. So, how works the twofold nature ofprohection and orojective identification abuse? Here is an example:
First, cones projection:
1) A liar accuses others of lying.
2) The cheater accuses others of cheating.
3) The thief accuses others of stealing.
4) The polyamorist and nonmonogamist accuses others of bein cheaters, unthrustworthy, promiscous and sexually permissive
(Notice how the abuser is, generally, accusing everyone, yet, not accusing them of any transgression, but only the one he's obsessed with namely his own?)
And, then, follows, projective identification:
1) An angry person accuses their victim of being angry, until the victim becomes angry.
2) An depressed person accuses their victim of being depressed, until the victim becomes depressed.
3) The parent constantly accuses their child of being defiant until the child becomes defiant.
4) The person who feels crazy accuses the other of being crazy (projection of bad thoughts) with the intention of making them believe they are crazy ("gaslighting").
5) The polyamorist and nonmonogamist accuses everyone and especially their spouses of being cheaters, unthrustworthy, promiscuous and sexually permissive with the aim at proselytizing them until they succumb and convert to the polyamorous and nonmonogamous cult
(notice how the effort has shifted now to one specific victim, an individual or a collective, until they succumb and, internalize the abuse hurled at them and begin to act in the spirit of the projected incentive)
Likewise, projective identification differs from the simple projection in that projective identification can become a self-fulfilling prophecy, whereby the projector hating certain parts about their existence and nature, carring a perveted or distorted understanding of reality based on self deception carry a false narrative and an intencive to influence and coerce the recipient to carry out the precise content of the projection and its goal so that the projector now get the justification and confirmation that the unwanted parts are no more perceived as bad but legitimate, hence, now other people are having them too. In extreme cases, the recipient may lose any sense of their real essense of existence and become reduced to the passive carrier of outside projections as if possessed by them. This phenomenon has been noted as being rooted gaslighting.
Within the context of polyamory and nonmonogamy, projective identification projective identification become a self-fulfilling prophecy, when the projector hating certain parts about their existence and nature, related to our monogamous parts, monogamous relationships and past traumes telating and resulting from them, carring a distorted understanding of the monogamous reality as well as distorted view of the nonmonogamous nature and based on self deception carry a false narrative and an intencive to influence and coerce the monogamous recipients to carry out the precise content of the projection and its goal so that the projector now get the justification and confirmation that the unwanted parts are no more perceived as bad but legitimate, hence, now other people are having them too. As we have said, in these cases, the recipient loses any sense of their real essense of their existence and becomes reduced to the passive carrier of outside projections as if possessed by them. That's why polyamory and nonmonogamy are abusive and represent a form of intimate partnet violence
The very nature of this behavior is exatcly what is understood as projective identification. It reflects the fact that the assumptions made by the projector about the recipient and reality reveal the projectors unconscious impulses, drives, traits, desires and delusions, their perceptions about themselves, their inner worlds, the others, the othrr's inner world as well as the external world, especially the projector's most primal fears and destructive emotion, attitudes and traits. Because the projector is incapable to take responsibility of them, they project their inner toxicity onto the recipieny, and in doing so the recipient aims at disowning them. This pushing off of unnaceptable aspects of the projector's personality represents the lack of accountability and exibits the narcissistic attemot of blame shifting. It stands at the root of this kind of behaviour. In the projector's unconscious mind this is perceived as the benefit of of the emotional barter deal yearning to avoid suffering by means of deception or escapism, yet, in reality it only creates more suffering.
At the core of this emotional barter deal the principle, the concept or the perception of “as if”. That is, the projector engaging in this defense mechanism is basically creating baseless assumptions of no corresponding reality about the incentives and the nature of the recipient, the external world as well as reality itself. Having created a virtual picture for oneself instead of reality, the recipient, then, goes on to behave as if their assumptions are valid. In other words, the projector engaging in this kind of behaviour projects , perceptions, motives, axioms, and emotions onto the recipient and then identifies with those projected traits and hallmarks, reincorporates them, and acts accordingly. Projective identification is, therefore, a kind of closed circuit, which typically serves a self-fulfilling prophecy, as mentioned above, because it causes the recipient to drown in the projector’s closed loop. This is the stage that is interactive between projector and recipient. Though the projectors maneuvers follow a self-contained loop, they enforce it with such pathos, they draw the recipient right into becoming an active player in the movie that the projetor ha created which has now brought the recipient into the third stage.
What happens when the projector's painted picture or created movie also incorporates promiscuity, infidelity, adultery and an extramarital relationships? Can a projector coerce and manipulate with gaslighting the recipient as enacnct that triangulate which is destructive marriages and relationships? I want not to discuss a term I borrowed from Robert Mendelson that is collusive infidelity and discus it in this exact context and in relation to polyamory and nonmonogamy.
Subsequently and relating to polyamory and nonmonogamy, collusive nonmonogamous adultery or collusive nonmonogamy is a situation where either there is a reluctant partner or one partner is less interested than the other and the more willing nonmonogamous partner unconsciously coercing the other partner to engage in an adultery and a promiscuous behavior with an outsider to the marriage. Neither member of the couple is conscious of the collusion that is the coercive aspect, so that the partner who is already committing adultery or is acting in ways typical of someone who wishes to do this. That is, he or she is either already pursuing an affair, having someone on mind ready to go or just planning in general terms to do so while keeing the secrets and conflict of interest inherent in the practice.
This act requires not only skill in deception, but also denial, distortion, rationalization, compartmentalization and more. To hide an actual affair or planning to do so while encouraging the other partner to think that his or her suspicions are ridiculous or that their unwillingness to do so is a result of ther infiiority, backwardness and unopeness requires a high level of wicked lying and evil manipulation commonly acknowledged as gaslighting. Polybombing, taking a reluctant monogamous partner to poly therapist or even suggesting such a partner tries to hear out and understand the monogamous spouse are some example for such evil behaviour
Collusion, however, is more active than mere enabling which can bemore passive. Coersion by means of gaslighting and deception is the crucial aspect of collusion as I have described it above. Collusion embodies a more active role of involvement in the marital recipient's enactments. In other words, a colludeding may also mean enabling but an enabling is not necessarily colluding. Whereas an enabler simply may simply ignorethe situation trying to adjust to the situation with someone who acts out his or her addictions, the projector's enabling involves primarily conscious and unconscious behaviour, that is, he or she are active agents of coercion.
While collusion means a consciously effort on the projector's part, that is, he or she, both on the unconscious as well as on the conscious level, are planning, plotting and executing a plan, the enabling recipient being more weak or codependent simply allows the situation to happen by turning a blind eye to it or keeps quite as not to shake the boat. Similar to the cheater, a nonmonogamist acting in this way by means of projective indentification, sets a goal and achieves a moral equivalency in which his unacceptable behaviour is whitewashed and he get's the justification he's seeking. The cheater would say, "you see, you also did it, that's o.k." and the polyamorist or nonmonogamist would proclaim, "you see, you did it, it was you being unreasonable". Clear tactics of gaslighting.
2024.05.10 23:15 2-late-to-the-party You deserve a break
Hello. I had to make a new account since I deleted my old one long time ago when I thought I would never have to come back here. My OCD's been kicking me in the ass a lot lately after a long break and I've been ruminating for days. Just had a moment of clarity that I'd like to share with you.
You don't owe people explanations about your event. You do not need to tell every person about what you did. They just do not need to know. Everyone here is always in a constant competition of whose event is worse than others and trust me, I do feel the same about mine. But who cares what was the most immoral act. The truth is, you did what you did. Your mind might be playing a lot of tricks on you right now trying to twist it to get a severe reaction from you. That's your OCD talking!
But what happened has already happened. If your event is fresh and currently happening, you could try to make things right if it involves other people. If it's a thing that hurt other people, you can say you're sorry. But that's mostly all you can do. Keep in mind apologizing and confessing may just spiral into more mental suffering. And if your case is like mine, the event was years ago. I could technically bring it up again. I could confess. I could make my suffering ease for a minute until I see the mess I've made bringing up the past. So it's no use!
I am also tired of feeling like a fraud and a liar by not bringing my event up every two seconds. I feel like I am a bit too obsessed with the truth. Like they should know about what I did, even when it doesn't have anything to do with them. What I'm saying is, people genuinely do not care to know. Yes, you've done questionable things. Things you wouldn't ever do again and if you could go back in time, you would prevent these things from happening. But you have to give yourself a break. You didn't know better. Now you do. It's growth.
The new people you meet will like you for who you are at that moment. The only thing that ever matters is how you act right now. And the labels you give yourself only matter in that moment. So maybe during my event I was a bad person. I was selfish. Maybe after that I was a liar trying to hide it. Maybe right now I'm a person trying to forgive myself. Nothing more than labels. They change every minute. Our morals also change every moment that we get life experience. So I don't have to constantly compare myself on the person I was in the past. I already know it.
It's time to forgive yourself. Do not dig those old labels back and try to use them with your current self. You're clearly sorry for what you did. You've been obsessing over it ever since! If there's a higher judge he will definitely see that. Just focus on being here now. Take a breath. You're alright. Even if the absolute worst happens, it's just life. One good thing this OCD bullshit has taught me is forgiveness for others. Now I just have to learn to also apply that to myself.
I want to end this on a quote I tell myself whenever I get too caught up with these thoughts. "It was a lesson, not a life sentence."
submitted by 2-late-to-the-party to RealEventOCD [link] [comments]
You don't owe people explanations about your event. You do not need to tell every person about what you did. They just do not need to know. Everyone here is always in a constant competition of whose event is worse than others and trust me, I do feel the same about mine. But who cares what was the most immoral act. The truth is, you did what you did. Your mind might be playing a lot of tricks on you right now trying to twist it to get a severe reaction from you. That's your OCD talking!
But what happened has already happened. If your event is fresh and currently happening, you could try to make things right if it involves other people. If it's a thing that hurt other people, you can say you're sorry. But that's mostly all you can do. Keep in mind apologizing and confessing may just spiral into more mental suffering. And if your case is like mine, the event was years ago. I could technically bring it up again. I could confess. I could make my suffering ease for a minute until I see the mess I've made bringing up the past. So it's no use!
I am also tired of feeling like a fraud and a liar by not bringing my event up every two seconds. I feel like I am a bit too obsessed with the truth. Like they should know about what I did, even when it doesn't have anything to do with them. What I'm saying is, people genuinely do not care to know. Yes, you've done questionable things. Things you wouldn't ever do again and if you could go back in time, you would prevent these things from happening. But you have to give yourself a break. You didn't know better. Now you do. It's growth.
The new people you meet will like you for who you are at that moment. The only thing that ever matters is how you act right now. And the labels you give yourself only matter in that moment. So maybe during my event I was a bad person. I was selfish. Maybe after that I was a liar trying to hide it. Maybe right now I'm a person trying to forgive myself. Nothing more than labels. They change every minute. Our morals also change every moment that we get life experience. So I don't have to constantly compare myself on the person I was in the past. I already know it.
It's time to forgive yourself. Do not dig those old labels back and try to use them with your current self. You're clearly sorry for what you did. You've been obsessing over it ever since! If there's a higher judge he will definitely see that. Just focus on being here now. Take a breath. You're alright. Even if the absolute worst happens, it's just life. One good thing this OCD bullshit has taught me is forgiveness for others. Now I just have to learn to also apply that to myself.
I want to end this on a quote I tell myself whenever I get too caught up with these thoughts. "It was a lesson, not a life sentence."
2024.05.10 22:05 SourceMedium6031 Daily News Report: 05/04/2024 - 05/10/2024
Date: 05/10/2024
Reading time: 3 minutes, 657 words🏛️ Politics & Government
Georgian PM says his Government is ready to establish relations between Georgia and EU, US “even closer”
Georgian PM Irakli Kobakhidze says his Government is ready to establish relations between Georgia and the European Union and the United States. He said the more steps are taken from the other side, the better. The PM called on international partners to “ensure as much as possible” the rapprochement of Georgia with both the USA and the EU.AgendaGe
Nordic-Baltic Countries: Agents Bill “Incompatible with EU Norms and Values,” Disrupts European Future
Finland, Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania say the bill is incompatible with European norms and values. The Nordic-Baltic countries dismiss the comparisons of the bill with the EU draft legislation by the Georgian authorities.CivilGe
U.S. State Department Condemns Harassment and Physical Assault of Agents Law Protesters
U.S. State Department Spokesperson Matthew Miller condemned reports from Georgia of harassment and physical attacks against civil society and opposition activists and journalists. Georgia has witnessed an orchestrated intimidation and attacks by violent thugs on civil society activists, opposition politicians and journalists for their critical stance on the foreign agents law.CivilGe
PM Addresses “Sincere, Misled Youths,” Says Opponents Have “Lower IQ”
Prime Minister of Georgia Irakli Kobakhidze published an “open letter’s” on Facebook addressing “sincere” but “misled” youths on May 10. He said people with high self-confidence and lack of intelligence are “more dangerous than a Russian tank” once again attacked youth protest movements.CivilGe
Eleven Detained During March on Chavchavadze Avenue
Eleven people were detained on May 9 on Chavchavadze Avenue, where police confronted protesters marching after the controversial arrest of military blogger and activist Ucha Abashidze. Five of them have already been released on parole. Two more opposition politicians were beaten by violent groups the same night in Tbilisi.CivilGe, MIA: Firearms, ammunition and cartridges were seized from blogger Ucha Abashidze’s house
Parliament Chairman Speaks about ‘Spiral of Violence’, Slams Embassies, Donors
Parliament Speaker Shalva Papuashvili blames NGOs and radical opposition for recent wave of violence against government critics. He also accused foreign Embassies and donors of turning a blind eye to what he claimed was “NGO-led violence’s” during rallies against the foreign agents law. The Speaker said he rejected request from heads of the Parliaments’ foreign affairs committees of several countries who asked to meet with him during their planned visit to Georgia next week.CivilGe, International Reactions to Intimidation, Violence Campaign Against Civil Activists, Opposition Politicians over Foreign Agents Law
💵 Economy
Ministry of Commerce, Industry, and Investment Promotion and ASYAD Group Showcase Oman’s Investment Potential at AIM Congress 2024
The Ministry of Commerce, Industry, and Investment Promotion (MoCIIP) partnered with Asyad Group, Oman’s global integrated logistics provider. The 13th edition of the AIM Congress, which took place from May 7-9, 2024, at ADNEC in Abu Dhabi. Under the theme ‘Adapting to A Shifting Investment Landscape: Harnessing New Potentials for Global Economic Development’GeorgiaToday
Export from Georgia to Israel increases
In the first quarter of 2023, products worth 4,648.33 thousand dollars were imported from Georgia to Israel, and in the same period of 2024, 8,670.21 thousand dollars. Accordingly, the export to Israel has increased by 87%.GeorgiaToday
Date: 05/09/2024
Reading time: 3 minutes, 742 words🏛️ Politics & Government
Orchestrated Intimidation of Protesters Against Agents’ Bill
Since the beginning of the protests against the Foreign Agents Law, there have been multiple attempts by still unidentified perpetrators to intimidate the protesters. These actions seem to be part of a well-organized campaign of intimidation against the opponents of the GD. Speaker of the Parliament Shalva Papuashvili on May 8 announced that Georgian Dream, through its party structures is launching a database containing information on all individuals.CivilGe, CSOs: Government Violence Cannot Stop Georgian People’s European Aspirations, Ombudsman Calls for Law Enforcement Response to May 8 Beatings of Protest Activists, Public Defender: Attacks on civilians require immediate and effective response
The Correct but Untenable Geopolitical Quadrangle
Georgia has been trying for quite a while now to convince the world that living within a peaceful and potentially fruitful geopolitical configuration could well be the most optimal way for us to survive and successfully develop. Sakartvelo-West-Russia-East-Quadrangle has proven to be of little effect in the current neo-realistic world order, with a looming multipolar international arrangement.GeorgiaToday
MIA Says Detained Six Demonstrators, Announces Further Criminal Investigations Against Protesters
Six people arrested during the ongoing rallies against the Foreign Agents Bill on charges of assaulting a police officer and damaging property. Director of the Tbilisi Police Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, Sulkhan Tamazashvili, held a briefing on the six people arrested on May 9. He announced new criminal investigation against all whose speeches during the rallies contain “criminal offenses”CivilGe
Interior Minister on attacks: I condemn all kinds of violence
Interior Minister Vakhtang Gomelauri has responded to the attacks on civil activists. 6 persons arrested on charges of assaulting a policeman and damaging property at the rally of the opponents of the ‘Transparency of Foreign Influences’ law.GeorgiaToday
Georgian Ambassador to France Resigns Over Foreign Agents Law
Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of Georgia to the French Republic and the Principality of Monaco, Gotcha Javakhishvili announced his resignation over the reintroduced Foreign Agents Bill. According to him, the atmosphere that was created between Georgia and its friends and partners due to the re-introduction of the bill made his job “extremely difficult”CivilGe, MP Maka Botchorishvili on the “Foreign Agents” Bill and Georgia’s Chances at EU Integration under Georgian Dream Leadership
Ambassador Herczyński, President Zurabishvili Address Europe Day Event, GD Absent
European Union Ambassador to Georgia Paweł Herczyński and Georgian President Salome Zurabishvili spoke at a special Europe Day gala concert at the Rustaveli Theater. The addresses resonated with pertinent issues such as Georgia’s alienation from the EU due to the Foreign Agents Law and the strengthening of authoritarian tendencies.CivilGe, EU Ambassador Herczyński Calls on Georgia to ‘Stay on the EU Path’ on Europe Day, Georgia to Celebrate First Europe Day with European Union Candidate Status, Georgia to Celebrate First Europe Day with European Union Candidate Status, Georgia to Celebrate First Europe Day with European Union Candidate Status
⚽ Sport
Paolo Barjija on the future of Napoli and Khvicha Kvaratskhelia
Paolo Barjija shared insights on the future of the Napoli club and Khvicha Kvaratskhelia on Radio Capri’s program Bordocampo. Antonio Conte had no intention of joining Napoli, while Fiorentina's Vincenzo Italiano is being considered.GeorgiaToday
Date: 05/08/2024
Reading time: 2 minutes, 552 words🪖 Military
Georgian Citizen Illegally Detained by Russian Occupation Forces
Another Georgian citizen was illegally detained by the Russian occupation forces in the vicinity of the village of Akhalubani, Gori municipality, near the Tskhinvali occupation line. All existing mechanisms for the release of illegally detained Georgians have been activated, the SSSG reported.CivilGe, Two Georgians Illegally Detained by Russian Occupation Forces Released
Two More Georgian Fighters Killed in Ukraine
Davit Ghoghadze and Beso Lomidze were killed in the vicinity of the Ukrainian city of Avdiivka. The latest casualty brings to 50 Georgian citizens who have died fighting in Ukraine since Russian invasion on February 24.CivilGe
🏛️ Politics & Government
GYLA Raises Alarm Over Surge In Abusive Phone Calls Amid Protests, Alleges Personal Data Breach
The Georgian Young Lawyers’ Association (GYLA) voiced concern about a recent wave of abusive and intimidating phone calls targeting individuals involved in ongoing protests against the foreign agents law. The GYLA alleges a violation of the processing of personal data, possibly involving the use of state agencies’ databases. The Personal Data Protection Service said that it is studying the legality of processing of citizens’ telephone numbers.CivilGe, MIA Showcases Violent Rally Dispersals Abroad, Threatens Similar Actions Against Agents’ Bill Protesters, Speaker Announces Launch of Incriminating Database on Opponents, GD to create database where information will be gathered about those “involved in violence”, GD to create database where information will be gathered about those “involved in violence”
OGP Gives 30 Days to Government to Develop Working Plan Addressing Key Concerns
The Open Government Partnership’s Criteria and Standards Subcommittee issued a response policy document on May 6. Georgia's Open Government Interagency Coordination Council raised concerns about the reintroduced Foreign Agents Law. Georgia has until June 6 to develop a comprehensive plan to address the identified challenges. Failure to do so may lead to Georgia's suspension from OGP unless concerns are addressed.CivilGe
💵 Economy
The EU and UNDP supports new opportunities for entrepreneurs across Georgia
EU and UNDP support opened new opportunities for thousands of small and medium-sized entrepreneurs across Georgia empowering them to embrace greener, more innovative, and more sustainable business practices.GeorgiaToday
Date: 05/07/2024
Reading time: 4 minutes, 846 words🪖 Military
An attack on Volodymyr Zelensky was prevented in Ukraine
Ukraine's President of the State Volodymyr Zelensky was planned to be attacked and killed. The head of military intelligence Kirill Budanov and head of State Security Service Vasyl Maliuk should have been killed before Easter, officials say. The assassination of the head of the state security service was intended as an inaugural gift to Putin, they say.EuroNewsGeorgia
🏛️ Politics & Government
ECtHR Finds Failure of Criminal Investigation in ‘Gavrilov’s Night’ Cases, Orders State to Pay Damages
At least 240 people, including 40 journalists and 80 police officers, were injured in the police dispersal of the anti-occupation rally outside the Parliament building on Rustaveli Avenue in Tbilisi on June 20-21, 2019. The ECHR finds the violation of Article 3 only in the procedural part, not in the substantive part, taking into account the complex nature of the investigation and the fact that many applicants applied prematurely.CivilGe, Strasbourg Resolution on "Gavrilov Night"
Opponents of Pashinyan march from Tavush to Yerevan
Residents of the northeastern province of Armenia, Tavush, started marching to Yerevan to protest against the Armenian government's decision to transfer land to Azerbaijan. In April, Armenia and Azerbaijan came one step closer to normalizing relations. According to the agreement reached, Armenia cedes certain territory to Azerbaijan.EuroNewsGeorgia
Russia bans “foreign agents” from participating in elections
Russian lawmakers have passed a bill banning "foreign agents" from running for political office in the country. It is the latest in a series of tightening restrictions against those whom the Kremlin accuses of working in the interests of Western governments. The bill will now be sent to the upper-house Federation Council, after which it will need to be signed by President Vladimir Putin.GeorgiaToday
"The basis of Putin's regime is lies and corruption" - Navalnaya
Yulia Navalnaya, widow of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny, urges Russian citizens not to give up in the fight against Putin's regime. She says now Russia is ruled by liars, thieves and murderers. Navalny's associates believe that Navalny was killed on Putin's orders.EuroNewsGeorgia
Speaker Again Lashes Out at NED, EED, MEPs for ‘Non-transparency,’ Funding ‘Radicalism,’ Political Parties
Parliament Speaker Shalva Papuashvili again attacks the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) and the European Endowment. He accuses them of lacking transparency and funding what he called a “violent” local NGO, the Shame Movement, and, indirectly, political parties. The “I threw it” campaign was initiated by the “Shame Movement” to support of Lazare Grigoriadis, who was accused of allegedly throwing a Molotov cocktail at the police and setting fire to the police car during the March 7-9 protests.CivilGe
MEPs Call for Suspension of EU Candidate Status for Georgia
Leading MEPs call for suspension of Georgia’s EU candidate status, review of EU funding of the Georgian state budget. The MEPs, in a letter of May 7 to European Commission Vice-President and High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy Josep Borrell, say that “continued undemocratic behaviour of Georgian authorities has crossed the line”CivilGe, MEPs to Borrell: Georgia’s candidate status should be suspended, authorities crossed the line, MEPs to Borrell: Georgia’s candidate status should be suspended, authorities crossed the line
Fifth term and fifth oath - another inauguration of Putin
Vladimir Putin took the presidential oath for the fifth time in the St. Andrew's Hall of the Kremlin. Few doubt that Putinism is the modern incarnation of Stalinism, writes Alexander Nemenov. Putin does not seem willing to deviate from his path of destruction, repression and antagonism towards free countries, he writes.EuroNewsGeorgia
SIS: Investigation into Police Brutality Ongoing
On May 7, the Georgian Special Investigation Service (SIS) released a statement saying it is collecting evidence concerning the allegations of police violence against the participants of the April-May protest rallies. SIS immediately launched a criminal inquest into possible facts of exceeding authority through the use of violence.CivilGe
Top Abkhaz Diplomat Dismissed, Goes to Moscow
Inal Ardzinba is the de facto foreign minister of the Russian-occupied Georgian region of Abkhazia, Aslan Bzhania, fired without giving a reason. He recently appeared at the Russian First Channel, the main Russian propaganda outlet, as an anchor of the talk show titled “The Global Majority” with Bashar Assad as his first guest.CivilGe
A week of rallies against the Russian law to be held in regions of Georgia
A week of rallies against the “Russian” law is planned in the regions of Georgia. Citizens will gather in Zugdidi, Gori, Kutaisi and Borjomi to protest against the law.GeorgiaToday
💵 Economy
EBRD Warns Against Foreign Agents Law
The president of the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) Odile Renaud-Basso warned that the foreign agents law may hurt investment in Georgia and the country’s economy. “We were surprised to see it coming back, and we are concerned by the dynamics of what's involved,” he said.CivilGe
Close friendly ties, economic cooperation in focus of meeting between Georgian FM, Swedish Foreign Trade Minister
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2024.05.10 15:11 Bearman637 The Narrow Way - Balancing Extremes in Christian Doctrine
Christian doctrine can be better understood by examining sets of opposite errors and finding the biblical truth that lies between them. By carefully studying these errors and their corresponding truths, believers can develop a more balanced perspective of their faith that is consistent with the teachings of the New Testament and the ante-Nicene Church Fathers (50-200AD). I will quote these early church bishops alongside scripture to demonstrate this was their understanding and not some novel invention. Below is a high level outline of the errors I will address.
Summary:
2. Cheap Grace (Salvation in wilful deliberate sin): This error separates faith from works, suggesting that one's actions have no bearing on their final salvation. "Once saved always saved" is a facet of this error. So also is treating sin as a transactional thing (eg a mentality of "I will sin then repent later"). People who hold this error often separate Christians into two classes, "carnal" Christians who believe in Jesus for forgiveness but don't want to obey him, and "mature" Christians who do obey him. There is no distinction like this in historical Christianity. There are immature Christians, and mature Christians but anyone who rejects submission to the teachings of Jesus is outside the faith. Jesus clearly warned about these people being wolves amongst sheep, for by their fruits we will know them. Bad trees bring forth bad fruit.
The biblical truth that balances these errors is that forgiveness (justification in Paul's usage) is by faith alone
It is essential to understand that while good works are necessary evidence of genuine faith, they are not the means by which salvation is earned. Salvation is a gift of God's grace, received through faith in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the fruit and outworking of this saving faith (Ephesians 2:10), demonstrating the reality of the believer's transformation in Christ (Titus 2:11-14). In other words, we are saved by faith alone, but saving faith is never alone; it always produces good works (love / fruit) as a result of the Holy Spirit's work in the believer's life (Philippians 2:12-13)."
Irenaeus (130-200AD, bishop and disciple of Polycarp who was a Discple of the apostle John) said the following on the issue which perfectly captures the meaning of Pauls epistles:
6. Hedonism: This error elevates the pursuit of pleasure as the highest good, neglecting the importance of self-control, self-sacrifice for others, and the pursuit of holiness.
The biblical perspective that balances these errors is that Christians should receive God's earthly gifts with gratitude and exercise self-control, preferring others above themselves
This error ignores the ongoing reality of the struggle against temptation and the need for vigilance in the life of a believer, claiming that a true believer is incapable of making mistakes or succumbing to temptation and sinning. This error neglects the need for mercy and patience amongst Christians as they grow in maturity in Christ. While believers might occasionally stumble (James 3:2), it's crucial to distinguish between temporary setbacks and a lifestyle of persistent, unrepentant sin.
By emphasizing the power of God's grace and the possibility of Christlikeness, we embrace a balanced perspective that acknowledges the struggle against temptation while affirming God's power to enable believers to live lives pleasing to Him, avoiding the extremes of believing that Christians are either incapable of sinning or that sin is inevitable.
8. Inevitability of sin:
This error denies the transformative power of the Holy Spirit and the ability of believers to live a life pleasing to God, asserting that loving obedience is impossible and sin is inevitable, even after conversion. Those who hold to this error might say things like, 'We will never be sinless in this life,' or 'we sin in thought, word and deed every day' or 'our righteousness is filthy rags' which suggests that believers are doomed to a life of continuous sin and fails to recognize the transformative power of abiding in Christ and walking by the Spirit. It also denies the fruit of the Spirit in ones life is the actual righteousness of God, not ones own and it isn't filthy rags. John 15 says God is pleased by this fruit and we prove to be Christs disciples by abiding in Him and doing His works.
This is the most dominant error amongst believers so I will spend more time unpacking this one. It is rooted in the traditions and novel interpretations of some prominent protestant reformers and not the new testament, or the early church fathers witness.
Those who hold to this error often cite 1 John 1:8 as evidence for their position, which states,
In fact, just a few verses later, John writes,
Furthermore, throughout his epistle, John emphasizes the transformative power of God's love and the believer's union with Christ
Here are some quotations from the disciples of the disciples to prove my point:
Remember, love is the opposite of sin. Sin the opposite of love. We cannot walk and abide in love and sin. Nor can we abide in sin and profess to love God. They are polar opposites. You walk in one or the other, light or darkness. Whoever abides in love abides in God and God in Him. This is how we can assure our hearts before Him, because as He is so are we in this world. Focus on the positive - love, not on sin aversion.
submitted by Bearman637 to Christianity [link] [comments]
Summary:
A. Forgiveness Errors 1. Merit - Forgiveness by works (either religious ceremonies or moral achievements) 2. Cheap Grace - Salvation in willful unrepentant sin B. Rule of Life Errors 3. Legalism - Chrisitans must obey the law of Moses 4. Antinomianism (Lawlessness) - As Christians are freed from the law of Moses, they are free from all moral obligation. C. Relationship to the World Errors 5. Asceticism - Pleasure and enjoyment is sin. 6. Hedonism - Pleasure and enjoyment is the highest good. D. Relationship to Sin & Righteousness Errors 7. Mistakelessness - Its impossible for genuine christians to sin or stumble, obedience is inevitable. 8. Inevitability of Sin - Its impossible for genuine Christians to obey God and live righteously, sin is inevitable.
A) Forgiveness Errors
1. Merit (Forgiveness/Justification by works): This error promotes the idea that salvation (forgiveness of sins) can be earned through good works and obedience, or religious ceremonies and performances neglecting the simplicity of faith and Gods grace. In Pauls time, this was faith in sacrificing bulls and animals to pay for their sins. In modern times its things like penance "do x y and z, and only then will you be forgiven". While repentance does include restoration of the wrong where possible, high church traditions do not normally mean returning a stolen good to someone if you were a thief, they mean do "x" religious practice "x" amount of times to be forgiven. This is not biblical and goes against the concept of being forgiven by Gods grace freely without needing to merit it.2. Cheap Grace (Salvation in wilful deliberate sin): This error separates faith from works, suggesting that one's actions have no bearing on their final salvation. "Once saved always saved" is a facet of this error. So also is treating sin as a transactional thing (eg a mentality of "I will sin then repent later"). People who hold this error often separate Christians into two classes, "carnal" Christians who believe in Jesus for forgiveness but don't want to obey him, and "mature" Christians who do obey him. There is no distinction like this in historical Christianity. There are immature Christians, and mature Christians but anyone who rejects submission to the teachings of Jesus is outside the faith. Jesus clearly warned about these people being wolves amongst sheep, for by their fruits we will know them. Bad trees bring forth bad fruit.
The biblical truth that balances these errors is that forgiveness (justification in Paul's usage) is by faith alone
Romans 3:28 - For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.but genuine faith will inevitably result in a life of loving obedience to Christ through the transforming power of the Holy Spirit, leading to ultimate salvation.
1 Clement 32:4 (LSV - Clement was a hearer of Paul and Peter, a bishop of the Roman church in the 1st century) 4 And we who through His will have been called in Christ Jesus are justified, not by ourselves, or through our wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or the works that we have done in holiness of heart, but by faith, by which all men from the beginning have been justified by Almighty God, to whom be glory through the ages of the ages. Amen.
James 2:14-26 - What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. ...Christians are justified (ie "forgiven and reconciled to God" in Paul's sense) by faith in Christ, not by works of the law
Galatians 5:13-14 - For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Galatians 2:16 - Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.but true faith will naturally produce good works as evidence of the believer's transformed life
Titus 3:8 - The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.While forgiveness is by grace through faith alone, a living faith is never alone but is always accompanied by good works, resulting in ultimate salvation (justification in James' usage).
It is essential to understand that while good works are necessary evidence of genuine faith, they are not the means by which salvation is earned. Salvation is a gift of God's grace, received through faith in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the fruit and outworking of this saving faith (Ephesians 2:10), demonstrating the reality of the believer's transformation in Christ (Titus 2:11-14). In other words, we are saved by faith alone, but saving faith is never alone; it always produces good works (love / fruit) as a result of the Holy Spirit's work in the believer's life (Philippians 2:12-13)."
Ephesians 2:8-9 -For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Titus 2:11-14 - For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
B) Rule of Life Errors
3. Legalism: This error teaches Christians are still bound to the Law of Moses. Sabbatarians fall under this category, as well as the Hebrew Roots movement. These teach we must keep the Torah in totality holding the mosaic law as Gods only and chief expression of His righteous requirement given to men. It rejects the fulfilment of the laws purpose which was to point men to Christ. It also ignores the Holy Spirits role of leading us in all things, having written the law of God on our hearts (Ezekiel 36:26-27) and shedding abroad Gods love in us (Romans 5). It denies we are no longer under the letter of the law but follow the Spirit (Romans 7:6)Ezekiel 36:26-27 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them."4. Antinomianism (Lawlessness): This error correctly teaches we are free from the law of Moses (Romans 7) but doesn't assert we are still bound under the Law of Christ. It leads to open sin and living selfishly to the "flesh". Everyone doing what they think is right in their own eyes like in the book of judges. These people will vehemently assert Romans 7 is a description of the normal Christian life (instead of Pauls life under Judaism before coming to Christ) wanting to do whats right but always living in sin, and deny Romans 8.
Romans 5:5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
Romans 8:3-4 - For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.The biblical truth is we are freed from the law of Moses (torah - first 5 books of the bible) to serve Jesus doing all He taught (which far exceeds the righteousness described in the Law of Moses). This is summed up in one word - Love. But not some generic love, Jesus is the standard of our love according to the book of John. He gave us a new commandment to love as He loved. Romans 13 says love is the fulfilling of the law.
Irenaeus (130-200AD, bishop and disciple of Polycarp who was a Discple of the apostle John) said the following on the issue which perfectly captures the meaning of Pauls epistles:
A Demonstration of the Apostolic PreachingWe do this by not loving this world (1 John 2) but loving Christ above all and our neighbour as our self which we can do by following His Spirit.
Chp96 God has summed up again for Himself in us the faith of Abraham, we ought not to turn back any more-- I mean, to the first legislation. For we have received the Lord of the Law, the Son of God; and by faith in Him we learn to love God with all our heart, and our neighbour as ourselves. Now the love of God is far from all sin, [289] and love to the neighbour worketh no ill to the neighbour. (Cf. Rom xiii. 10) Wherefore also we need not the Law as a tutor. Behold, with the Father we speak, and in His presence we stand, being children in malice , [290] and grown strong in all righteousness and soberness. For no longer shall the Law say, Do not commit adultery, to him who has no desire at all for another's wife; and Thou shalt not kill, to him who has put away from himself all anger and enmity; (and) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's field or ox or ass, to those who have no care at all for earthly things, but store up the heavenly fruits: nor An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, to him who counts no man his enemy, but all men his neighbors, and therefore cannot stretch out his hand at all for vengeance. It will not require tithes of him who consecrates all his possessions to God, [291] leaving father and mother and all his kindred, and following the Word of God. And there will be no command to remain idle for one day of rest, to him who perpetually keeps sabbath, [292] that is to say, who in the temple of God, which is man's body, does service to God, and in every hour works righteousness.
1 John 2:15 - Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.The Spirit of God never leads us into sin but is contrary to the the selfish desires of the flesh that result in sin (Galatians 5:16-17).
Galatians 5:16-17 - I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.Practically it just means walking with a clear conscience always and keeping a pure heart before God, resisting temptation and in short - loving him.
1 Tim 1:5 - The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.Praying and study scripture frequently are means by which we can relate to God, as our salvation is primarily relational not transactional. Viewing salvation as transactional is what leads to the majority of these errors I am addressing. Love (goodwill) fulfils the command of righteousness before God. Jesus said in John 15, apart from Him we can do nothing but if we abide in Him we will bare much fruit.
John 15:4-5 - Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.Love obeys all the teachings of Jesus, and these are not hard teachings to those indwelt by the Spirit of God (1 John 5).
1 John 5:3 - For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
C) Relationship to The World Errors
5. Asceticism: This error promotes extreme self-denial and the rejection of worldly pleasures as a means to attain righteousness, often leading to a legalistic and works-based approach to spirituality. It views pleasure as intrinsically evil.6. Hedonism: This error elevates the pursuit of pleasure as the highest good, neglecting the importance of self-control, self-sacrifice for others, and the pursuit of holiness.
The biblical perspective that balances these errors is that Christians should receive God's earthly gifts with gratitude and exercise self-control, preferring others above themselves
Philippians 4:11-13 - Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. I can do all things through him who strengthens me.Believers are called to live lives of holiness and devotion to God, not indulging in sinful pleasures
Romans 12:10 - Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.
1 Peter 1:14-16 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."At the same time, they should not embrace extreme asceticism, which can lead to pride and a false sense of righteousness
Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age,
Colossians 2:20-23 - If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch" (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.God's earthly gifts, when enjoyed with gratitude and moderation, are not inherently evil but are meant to be received with thanksgiving
1 Timothy 4:4 - For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,
D) Relationship to Sin & Righteousness Errors
7. Mistakelessness:This error ignores the ongoing reality of the struggle against temptation and the need for vigilance in the life of a believer, claiming that a true believer is incapable of making mistakes or succumbing to temptation and sinning. This error neglects the need for mercy and patience amongst Christians as they grow in maturity in Christ. While believers might occasionally stumble (James 3:2), it's crucial to distinguish between temporary setbacks and a lifestyle of persistent, unrepentant sin.
James 3:2 - For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.Stumbling is easy as a human, but if we can exercise self control in speech (by the Spirit) we can be complete and fully trained like Jesus, for He to became human:
Luke 6:40 - A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher.Through the transformative power of the Holy Spirit, believers can experience victory over sin and become like Christ in this world (Luke 6:40) but we still may make mistakes.
1 John 3:7 - Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.If stumbling occurs, it should be met with repentance, seeking forgiveness, and learning from one's mistakes - changing how one lives.
1 John 3:24 - Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
1 John 4:17 - By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
By emphasizing the power of God's grace and the possibility of Christlikeness, we embrace a balanced perspective that acknowledges the struggle against temptation while affirming God's power to enable believers to live lives pleasing to Him, avoiding the extremes of believing that Christians are either incapable of sinning or that sin is inevitable.
8. Inevitability of sin:
This error denies the transformative power of the Holy Spirit and the ability of believers to live a life pleasing to God, asserting that loving obedience is impossible and sin is inevitable, even after conversion. Those who hold to this error might say things like, 'We will never be sinless in this life,' or 'we sin in thought, word and deed every day' or 'our righteousness is filthy rags' which suggests that believers are doomed to a life of continuous sin and fails to recognize the transformative power of abiding in Christ and walking by the Spirit. It also denies the fruit of the Spirit in ones life is the actual righteousness of God, not ones own and it isn't filthy rags. John 15 says God is pleased by this fruit and we prove to be Christs disciples by abiding in Him and doing His works.
This is the most dominant error amongst believers so I will spend more time unpacking this one. It is rooted in the traditions and novel interpretations of some prominent protestant reformers and not the new testament, or the early church fathers witness.
Those who hold to this error often cite 1 John 1:8 as evidence for their position, which states,
1 John 1:8 - If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.However, this verse must be understood in its proper context. In 1 John 1:8, John is addressing the false teaching that denies the reality of sin and the need for a Savior
1 John 1:6 - If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.Referring to the Gnostic idea that the spiritual realm is entirely separate from the material realm and that one's actions in the physical world do not affect one's spiritual standing. John is not suggesting that believers are doomed to a life of continuous sin.
1 John 1:10 - If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
In fact, just a few verses later, John writes,
1 John 2:1a - My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin.indicating that the goal of the Christian life is to avoid sin, not to embrace its inevitability. He goes on to say,
1 John 2:1b - But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.acknowledging that while believers may still stumble, they have the provision of Christ's forgiveness and advocacy if they do.
Furthermore, throughout his epistle, John emphasizes the transformative power of God's love and the believer's union with Christ
1 John 3:6 - No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.which enables them to overcome sin and live a life of obedience. This aligns with the broader New Testament teaching that believers have been set free from the dominion of sin and can live a life pleasing to God through the power of the Holy Spirit
1 John 3:9 - No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1 John 5:18 - We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.
Romans 6:11-14 - So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.Thus, the error of the inevitability of sin is based on a misinterpretation of 1 John 1:8 and fails to account for the overall message of 1 John and the broader New Testament teaching on the transformative power of God's grace in the life of a believer. It also opposes the earliest extra biblical witnesses on the issue, the very disciples of the disciples.
Galatians 5:16 - But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Here are some quotations from the disciples of the disciples to prove my point:
Ignatius to the Ephesians 14:2 (1st century Bishop and martyr, direct disciple of the apostle John)Irenaeus (130-200AD, bishop and disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the apostle John):
2 No man professing faith sins, and no man possessing love hates. The tree is manifest from its fruit; so they that profess to be Christ’s will be seen through their actions. For the work is not a thing of profession now, but is seen then when one is found in the power of faith to the end.
Polycarp to the Philippians 3:1-3 (1st century Bishop and another martyr, another direct disciple of the apostle John) These things, brothers, I write to you concerning righteousness, not at my own instance, but because you first invited me. 2 For neither am I, nor is any other like me, able to follow the wisdom of the blessed and glorious Paul, who when he was among you in the presence of the men of that time accurately and steadfastly taught the word of truth, and also when he was absent wrote letters to you, from the study of which you will be able to build yourselves up into the faith given to you, 3 “which is the mother of us all” when faith follows, and love of God, and Christ, and neighbor goes before. For if one is in this company, he has fulfilled the command of righteousness, for he who has love is far from all sin.
A Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching
Chp86 And that not by the much speaking of the law, but by the brevity of faith and love, men were to be saved, Isaiah says thus: A word brief and short in righteousness: for a short word will God make in the whole world. (Cf. Isa. x. 23) And therefore the apostle Paul says: Love is the fulfilling of the law: for he who loves God has fulfilled the law. Moreover the Lord, when He was asked which is the first commandment, said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy strength. [270] And the second is like unto it: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments, He says, all the hangeth and the prophets. So then by our faith in Him He has made our love to God and our neighbour to grow, making us godly and righteous and good. And therefore a short word has God made on the earth in the world.
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The balanced biblical view is that loving obedience is possible through the power of the Holy Spirit, but temptation remains a reality that believers must resistPhilippians 2:12-13 - Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.The New Testament teaches that believers have been set free from the dominion of sin and can live a life of righteousness through Christ and will never be tempted beyond what they can bare.
1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.However, it also acknowledges the ongoing fight against temptation and the possibility of making mistakes, emphasizing the need for repentance if one stumbles and reliance on God's grace
Romans 6:11-14 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
1 John 2:1 - My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.Importantly, the Bible warns that believers will be judged according to their deeds
Romans 2:6-11 - He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.and will have to give an account for their lives, including both their sins and their righteousness
2 Corinthians 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.This truth should motivate Christians to take their sanctification seriously and strive to live a life that is pleasing to God. The New Testament also warns that those who persistently live according to the flesh, even if they profess faith, will face condemnation
Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.While salvation is by grace through faith alone, these warnings underscore the importance of living out one's faith through obedience and good deeds, demonstrating the reality of one's transformation in Christ.
Galatians 6:7-8 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
Hebrews 10:26-31 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Remember, love is the opposite of sin. Sin the opposite of love. We cannot walk and abide in love and sin. Nor can we abide in sin and profess to love God. They are polar opposites. You walk in one or the other, light or darkness. Whoever abides in love abides in God and God in Him. This is how we can assure our hearts before Him, because as He is so are we in this world. Focus on the positive - love, not on sin aversion.
1 John 1: 5-7 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 4:12-18 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
Summary
In summary, the balanced biblical perspective on Christian doctrine can be encapsulated by the phrase "faith working through love," as stated by Paul inGalatians 5:6 - For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.This concise expression captures the essential relationship between faith, works, and the transformative power of God's love in the life of a believer. It effectively addresses the various errors discussed, emphasizing that genuine faith in Christ will naturally express itself through love for God and others, leading to a life of obedience and good works. By understanding and embracing this principle, Christians can develop a more accurate and balanced understanding of their faith, rooted in the teachings of the New Testament and the ante-Nicene Church Fathers.
2024.05.10 15:09 Bearman637 The Narrow Way - Balancing Extremes in Christian Doctrine
Christian doctrine can be better understood by examining sets of opposite errors and finding the biblical truth that lies between them. By carefully studying these errors and their corresponding truths, believers can develop a more balanced perspective of their faith that is consistent with the teachings of the New Testament and the ante-Nicene Church Fathers (50-200AD). I will quote these early church bishops alongside scripture to demonstrate this was their understanding and not some novel invention. Below is a high level outline of the errors I will address.
Summary:
2. Cheap Grace (Salvation in wilful deliberate sin): This error separates faith from works, suggesting that one's actions have no bearing on their final salvation. "Once saved always saved" is a facet of this error. So also is treating sin as a transactional thing (eg a mentality of "I will sin then repent later"). People who hold this error often separate Christians into two classes, "carnal" Christians who believe in Jesus for forgiveness but don't want to obey him, and "mature" Christians who do obey him. There is no distinction like this in historical Christianity. There are immature Christians, and mature Christians but anyone who rejects submission to the teachings of Jesus is outside the faith. Jesus clearly warned about these people being wolves amongst sheep, for by their fruits we will know them. Bad trees bring forth bad fruit.
The biblical truth that balances these errors is that forgiveness (justification in Paul's usage) is by faith alone
It is essential to understand that while good works are necessary evidence of genuine faith, they are not the means by which salvation is earned. Salvation is a gift of God's grace, received through faith in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the fruit and outworking of this saving faith (Ephesians 2:10), demonstrating the reality of the believer's transformation in Christ (Titus 2:11-14). In other words, we are saved by faith alone, but saving faith is never alone; it always produces good works (love / fruit) as a result of the Holy Spirit's work in the believer's life (Philippians 2:12-13)."
Irenaeus (130-200AD, bishop and disciple of Polycarp who was a Discple of the apostle John) said the following on the issue which perfectly captures the meaning of Pauls epistles:
6. Hedonism: This error elevates the pursuit of pleasure as the highest good, neglecting the importance of self-control, self-sacrifice for others, and the pursuit of holiness.
The biblical perspective that balances these errors is that Christians should receive God's earthly gifts with gratitude and exercise self-control, preferring others above themselves
This error ignores the ongoing reality of the struggle against temptation and the need for vigilance in the life of a believer, claiming that a true believer is incapable of making mistakes or succumbing to temptation and sinning. This error neglects the need for mercy and patience amongst Christians as they grow in maturity in Christ. While believers might occasionally stumble (James 3:2), it's crucial to distinguish between temporary setbacks and a lifestyle of persistent, unrepentant sin.
By emphasizing the power of God's grace and the possibility of Christlikeness, we embrace a balanced perspective that acknowledges the struggle against temptation while affirming God's power to enable believers to live lives pleasing to Him, avoiding the extremes of believing that Christians are either incapable of sinning or that sin is inevitable.
8. Inevitability of sin:
This error denies the transformative power of the Holy Spirit and the ability of believers to live a life pleasing to God, asserting that loving obedience is impossible and sin is inevitable, even after conversion. Those who hold to this error might say things like, 'We will never be sinless in this life,' or 'we sin in thought, word and deed every day' or 'our righteousness is filthy rags' which suggests that believers are doomed to a life of continuous sin and fails to recognize the transformative power of abiding in Christ and walking by the Spirit. It also denies the fruit of the Spirit in ones life is the actual righteousness of God, not ones own and it isn't filthy rags. John 15 says God is pleased by this fruit and we prove to be Christs disciples by abiding in Him and doing His works.
This is the most dominant error amongst believers so I will spend more time unpacking this one. It is rooted in the traditions and novel interpretations of some prominent protestant reformers and not the new testament, or the early church fathers witness.
Those who hold to this error often cite 1 John 1:8 as evidence for their position, which states,
In fact, just a few verses later, John writes,
Furthermore, throughout his epistle, John emphasizes the transformative power of God's love and the believer's union with Christ
Here are some quotations from the disciples of the disciples to prove my point:
Remember, love is the opposite of sin. Sin the opposite of love. We cannot walk and abide in love and sin. Nor can we abide in sin and profess to love God. They are polar opposites. You walk in one or the other, light or darkness. Whoever abides in love abides in God and God in Him. This is how we can assure our hearts before Him, because as He is so are we in this world. Focus on the positive - love, not on sin aversion.
submitted by Bearman637 to TrueChristian [link] [comments]
Summary:
A. Forgiveness Errors 1. Merit - Forgiveness by works (either religious ceremonies or moral achievements) 2. Cheap Grace - Salvation in willful unrepentant sin B. Rule of Life Errors 3. Legalism - Chrisitans must obey the law of Moses 4. Antinomianism (Lawlessness) - As Christians are freed from the law of Moses, they are free from all moral obligation. C. Relationship to the World Errors 5. Asceticism - Pleasure and enjoyment is sin. 6. Hedonism - Pleasure and enjoyment is the highest good. D. Relationship to Sin & Righteousness Errors 7. Mistakelessness - Its impossible for genuine christians to sin or stumble, obedience is inevitable. 8. Inevitability of Sin - Its impossible for genuine Christians to obey God and live righteously, sin is inevitable.
A) Forgiveness Errors
1. Merit (Forgiveness/Justification by works): This error promotes the idea that salvation (forgiveness of sins) can be earned through good works and obedience, or religious ceremonies and performances neglecting the simplicity of faith and Gods grace. In Pauls time, this was faith in sacrificing bulls and animals to pay for their sins. In modern times its things like penance "do x y and z, and only then will you be forgiven". While repentance does include restoration of the wrong where possible, high church traditions do not normally mean returning a stolen good to someone if you were a thief, they mean do "x" religious practice "x" amount of times to be forgiven. This is not biblical and goes against the concept of being forgiven by Gods grace freely without needing to merit it.2. Cheap Grace (Salvation in wilful deliberate sin): This error separates faith from works, suggesting that one's actions have no bearing on their final salvation. "Once saved always saved" is a facet of this error. So also is treating sin as a transactional thing (eg a mentality of "I will sin then repent later"). People who hold this error often separate Christians into two classes, "carnal" Christians who believe in Jesus for forgiveness but don't want to obey him, and "mature" Christians who do obey him. There is no distinction like this in historical Christianity. There are immature Christians, and mature Christians but anyone who rejects submission to the teachings of Jesus is outside the faith. Jesus clearly warned about these people being wolves amongst sheep, for by their fruits we will know them. Bad trees bring forth bad fruit.
The biblical truth that balances these errors is that forgiveness (justification in Paul's usage) is by faith alone
Romans 3:28 - For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.but genuine faith will inevitably result in a life of loving obedience to Christ through the transforming power of the Holy Spirit, leading to ultimate salvation.
1 Clement 32:4 (LSV - Clement was a hearer of Paul and Peter, a bishop of the Roman church in the 1st century) 4 And we who through His will have been called in Christ Jesus are justified, not by ourselves, or through our wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or the works that we have done in holiness of heart, but by faith, by which all men from the beginning have been justified by Almighty God, to whom be glory through the ages of the ages. Amen.
James 2:14-26 - What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. ...Christians are justified (ie "forgiven and reconciled to God" in Paul's sense) by faith in Christ, not by works of the law
Galatians 5:13-14 - For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Galatians 2:16 - Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.but true faith will naturally produce good works as evidence of the believer's transformed life
Titus 3:8 - The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.While forgiveness is by grace through faith alone, a living faith is never alone but is always accompanied by good works, resulting in ultimate salvation (justification in James' usage).
It is essential to understand that while good works are necessary evidence of genuine faith, they are not the means by which salvation is earned. Salvation is a gift of God's grace, received through faith in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the fruit and outworking of this saving faith (Ephesians 2:10), demonstrating the reality of the believer's transformation in Christ (Titus 2:11-14). In other words, we are saved by faith alone, but saving faith is never alone; it always produces good works (love / fruit) as a result of the Holy Spirit's work in the believer's life (Philippians 2:12-13)."
Ephesians 2:8-9 -For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Titus 2:11-14 - For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
B) Rule of Life Errors
3. Legalism: This error teaches Christians are still bound to the Law of Moses. Sabbatarians fall under this category, as well as the Hebrew Roots movement. These teach we must keep the Torah in totality holding the mosaic law as Gods only and chief expression of His righteous requirement given to men. It rejects the fulfilment of the laws purpose which was to point men to Christ. It also ignores the Holy Spirits role of leading us in all things, having written the law of God on our hearts (Ezekiel 36:26-27) and shedding abroad Gods love in us (Romans 5). It denies we are no longer under the letter of the law but follow the Spirit (Romans 7:6)Ezekiel 36:26-27 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them."4. Antinomianism (Lawlessness): This error correctly teaches we are free from the law of Moses (Romans 7) but doesn't assert we are still bound under the Law of Christ. It leads to open sin and living selfishly to the "flesh". Everyone doing what they think is right in their own eyes like in the book of judges. These people will vehemently assert Romans 7 is a description of the normal Christian life (instead of Pauls life under Judaism before coming to Christ) wanting to do whats right but always living in sin, and deny Romans 8.
Romans 5:5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
Romans 8:3-4 - For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.The biblical truth is we are freed from the law of Moses (torah - first 5 books of the bible) to serve Jesus doing all He taught (which far exceeds the righteousness described in the Law of Moses). This is summed up in one word - Love. But not some generic love, Jesus is the standard of our love according to the book of John. He gave us a new commandment to love as He loved. Romans 13 says love is the fulfilling of the law.
Irenaeus (130-200AD, bishop and disciple of Polycarp who was a Discple of the apostle John) said the following on the issue which perfectly captures the meaning of Pauls epistles:
A Demonstration of the Apostolic PreachingWe do this by not loving this world (1 John 2) but loving Christ above all and our neighbour as our self which we can do by following His Spirit.
Chp96 God has summed up again for Himself in us the faith of Abraham, we ought not to turn back any more-- I mean, to the first legislation. For we have received the Lord of the Law, the Son of God; and by faith in Him we learn to love God with all our heart, and our neighbour as ourselves. Now the love of God is far from all sin, [289] and love to the neighbour worketh no ill to the neighbour. (Cf. Rom xiii. 10) Wherefore also we need not the Law as a tutor. Behold, with the Father we speak, and in His presence we stand, being children in malice , [290] and grown strong in all righteousness and soberness. For no longer shall the Law say, Do not commit adultery, to him who has no desire at all for another's wife; and Thou shalt not kill, to him who has put away from himself all anger and enmity; (and) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's field or ox or ass, to those who have no care at all for earthly things, but store up the heavenly fruits: nor An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, to him who counts no man his enemy, but all men his neighbors, and therefore cannot stretch out his hand at all for vengeance. It will not require tithes of him who consecrates all his possessions to God, [291] leaving father and mother and all his kindred, and following the Word of God. And there will be no command to remain idle for one day of rest, to him who perpetually keeps sabbath, [292] that is to say, who in the temple of God, which is man's body, does service to God, and in every hour works righteousness.
1 John 2:15 - Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.The Spirit of God never leads us into sin but is contrary to the the selfish desires of the flesh that result in sin (Galatians 5:16-17).
Galatians 5:16-17 - I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.Practically it just means walking with a clear conscience always and keeping a pure heart before God, resisting temptation and in short - loving him.
1 Tim 1:5 - The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.Praying and study scripture frequently are means by which we can relate to God, as our salvation is primarily relational not transactional. Viewing salvation as transactional is what leads to the majority of these errors I am addressing. Love (goodwill) fulfils the command of righteousness before God. Jesus said in John 15, apart from Him we can do nothing but if we abide in Him we will bare much fruit.
John 15:4-5 - Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.Love obeys all the teachings of Jesus, and these are not hard teachings to those indwelt by the Spirit of God (1 John 5).
1 John 5:3 - For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
C) Relationship to The World Errors
5. Asceticism: This error promotes extreme self-denial and the rejection of worldly pleasures as a means to attain righteousness, often leading to a legalistic and works-based approach to spirituality. It views pleasure as intrinsically evil.6. Hedonism: This error elevates the pursuit of pleasure as the highest good, neglecting the importance of self-control, self-sacrifice for others, and the pursuit of holiness.
The biblical perspective that balances these errors is that Christians should receive God's earthly gifts with gratitude and exercise self-control, preferring others above themselves
Philippians 4:11-13 - Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. I can do all things through him who strengthens me.Believers are called to live lives of holiness and devotion to God, not indulging in sinful pleasures
Romans 12:10 - Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.
1 Peter 1:14-16 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."At the same time, they should not embrace extreme asceticism, which can lead to pride and a false sense of righteousness
Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age,
Colossians 2:20-23 - If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch" (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.God's earthly gifts, when enjoyed with gratitude and moderation, are not inherently evil but are meant to be received with thanksgiving
1 Timothy 4:4 - For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,
D) Relationship to Sin & Righteousness Errors
7. Mistakelessness:This error ignores the ongoing reality of the struggle against temptation and the need for vigilance in the life of a believer, claiming that a true believer is incapable of making mistakes or succumbing to temptation and sinning. This error neglects the need for mercy and patience amongst Christians as they grow in maturity in Christ. While believers might occasionally stumble (James 3:2), it's crucial to distinguish between temporary setbacks and a lifestyle of persistent, unrepentant sin.
James 3:2 - For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.Stumbling is easy as a human, but if we can exercise self control in speech (by the Spirit) we can be complete and fully trained like Jesus, for He to became human:
Luke 6:40 - A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher.Through the transformative power of the Holy Spirit, believers can experience victory over sin and become like Christ in this world (Luke 6:40) but we still may make mistakes.
1 John 3:7 - Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.If stumbling occurs, it should be met with repentance, seeking forgiveness, and learning from one's mistakes - changing how one lives.
1 John 3:24 - Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
1 John 4:17 - By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
By emphasizing the power of God's grace and the possibility of Christlikeness, we embrace a balanced perspective that acknowledges the struggle against temptation while affirming God's power to enable believers to live lives pleasing to Him, avoiding the extremes of believing that Christians are either incapable of sinning or that sin is inevitable.
8. Inevitability of sin:
This error denies the transformative power of the Holy Spirit and the ability of believers to live a life pleasing to God, asserting that loving obedience is impossible and sin is inevitable, even after conversion. Those who hold to this error might say things like, 'We will never be sinless in this life,' or 'we sin in thought, word and deed every day' or 'our righteousness is filthy rags' which suggests that believers are doomed to a life of continuous sin and fails to recognize the transformative power of abiding in Christ and walking by the Spirit. It also denies the fruit of the Spirit in ones life is the actual righteousness of God, not ones own and it isn't filthy rags. John 15 says God is pleased by this fruit and we prove to be Christs disciples by abiding in Him and doing His works.
This is the most dominant error amongst believers so I will spend more time unpacking this one. It is rooted in the traditions and novel interpretations of some prominent protestant reformers and not the new testament, or the early church fathers witness.
Those who hold to this error often cite 1 John 1:8 as evidence for their position, which states,
1 John 1:8 - If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.However, this verse must be understood in its proper context. In 1 John 1:8, John is addressing the false teaching that denies the reality of sin and the need for a Savior
1 John 1:6 - If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.Referring to the Gnostic idea that the spiritual realm is entirely separate from the material realm and that one's actions in the physical world do not affect one's spiritual standing. John is not suggesting that believers are doomed to a life of continuous sin.
1 John 1:10 - If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
In fact, just a few verses later, John writes,
1 John 2:1a - My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin.indicating that the goal of the Christian life is to avoid sin, not to embrace its inevitability. He goes on to say,
1 John 2:1b - But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.acknowledging that while believers may still stumble, they have the provision of Christ's forgiveness and advocacy if they do.
Furthermore, throughout his epistle, John emphasizes the transformative power of God's love and the believer's union with Christ
1 John 3:6 - No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.which enables them to overcome sin and live a life of obedience. This aligns with the broader New Testament teaching that believers have been set free from the dominion of sin and can live a life pleasing to God through the power of the Holy Spirit
1 John 3:9 - No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1 John 5:18 - We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.
Romans 6:11-14 - So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.Thus, the error of the inevitability of sin is based on a misinterpretation of 1 John 1:8 and fails to account for the overall message of 1 John and the broader New Testament teaching on the transformative power of God's grace in the life of a believer. It also opposes the earliest extra biblical witnesses on the issue, the very disciples of the disciples.
Galatians 5:16 - But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Here are some quotations from the disciples of the disciples to prove my point:
Ignatius to the Ephesians 14:2 (1st century Bishop and martyr, direct disciple of the apostle John)Irenaeus (130-200AD, bishop and disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the apostle John):
2 No man professing faith sins, and no man possessing love hates. The tree is manifest from its fruit; so they that profess to be Christ’s will be seen through their actions. For the work is not a thing of profession now, but is seen then when one is found in the power of faith to the end.
Polycarp to the Philippians 3:1-3 (1st century Bishop and another martyr, another direct disciple of the apostle John) These things, brothers, I write to you concerning righteousness, not at my own instance, but because you first invited me. 2 For neither am I, nor is any other like me, able to follow the wisdom of the blessed and glorious Paul, who when he was among you in the presence of the men of that time accurately and steadfastly taught the word of truth, and also when he was absent wrote letters to you, from the study of which you will be able to build yourselves up into the faith given to you, 3 “which is the mother of us all” when faith follows, and love of God, and Christ, and neighbor goes before. For if one is in this company, he has fulfilled the command of righteousness, for he who has love is far from all sin.
A Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching
Chp86 And that not by the much speaking of the law, but by the brevity of faith and love, men were to be saved, Isaiah says thus: A word brief and short in righteousness: for a short word will God make in the whole world. (Cf. Isa. x. 23) And therefore the apostle Paul says: Love is the fulfilling of the law: for he who loves God has fulfilled the law. Moreover the Lord, when He was asked which is the first commandment, said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy strength. [270] And the second is like unto it: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments, He says, all the hangeth and the prophets. So then by our faith in Him He has made our love to God and our neighbour to grow, making us godly and righteous and good. And therefore a short word has God made on the earth in the world.
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The balanced biblical view is that loving obedience is possible through the power of the Holy Spirit, but temptation remains a reality that believers must resistPhilippians 2:12-13 - Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.The New Testament teaches that believers have been set free from the dominion of sin and can live a life of righteousness through Christ and will never be tempted beyond what they can bare.
1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.However, it also acknowledges the ongoing fight against temptation and the possibility of making mistakes, emphasizing the need for repentance if one stumbles and reliance on God's grace
Romans 6:11-14 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
1 John 2:1 - My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.Importantly, the Bible warns that believers will be judged according to their deeds
Romans 2:6-11 - He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.and will have to give an account for their lives, including both their sins and their righteousness
2 Corinthians 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.This truth should motivate Christians to take their sanctification seriously and strive to live a life that is pleasing to God. The New Testament also warns that those who persistently live according to the flesh, even if they profess faith, will face condemnation
Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.While salvation is by grace through faith alone, these warnings underscore the importance of living out one's faith through obedience and good deeds, demonstrating the reality of one's transformation in Christ.
Galatians 6:7-8 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
Hebrews 10:26-31 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Remember, love is the opposite of sin. Sin the opposite of love. We cannot walk and abide in love and sin. Nor can we abide in sin and profess to love God. They are polar opposites. You walk in one or the other, light or darkness. Whoever abides in love abides in God and God in Him. This is how we can assure our hearts before Him, because as He is so are we in this world. Focus on the positive - love, not on sin aversion.
1 John 1: 5-7 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 4:12-18 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
Summary
In summary, the balanced biblical perspective on Christian doctrine can be encapsulated by the phrase "faith working through love," as stated by Paul inGalatians 5:6 - For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.This concise expression captures the essential relationship between faith, works, and the transformative power of God's love in the life of a believer. It effectively addresses the various errors discussed, emphasizing that genuine faith in Christ will naturally express itself through love for God and others, leading to a life of obedience and good works. By understanding and embracing this principle, Christians can develop a more accurate and balanced understanding of their faith, rooted in the teachings of the New Testament and the ante-Nicene Church Fathers.
2024.05.10 08:41 Bearman637 The Narrow Way - Balancing Extremes in Christian Doctrine
Christian doctrine can be better understood by examining sets of opposite errors and finding the biblical truth that lies between them. By carefully studying these errors and their corresponding truths, believers can develop a more balanced perspective of their faith that is consistent with the teachings of the New Testament and the ante-Nicene Church Fathers (50-200AD). I will quote these early church bishops alongside scripture to demonstrate this was their understanding and not some novel invention. Below is a high level outline of the errors I will address.
Summary:
2. Cheap Grace (Salvation in wilful deliberate sin): This error separates faith from works, suggesting that one's actions have no bearing on their final salvation. "Once saved always saved" is a facet of this error. So also is treating sin as a transactional thing (eg a mentality of "I will sin then repent later"). People who hold this error often separate Christians into two classes, "carnal" Christians who believe in Jesus for forgiveness but don't want to obey him, and "mature" Christians who do obey him. There is no distinction like this in historical Christianity. There are immature Christians, and mature Christians but anyone who rejects submission to the teachings of Jesus is outside the faith. Jesus clearly warned about these people being wolves amongst sheep, for by their fruits we will know them. Bad trees bring forth bad fruit.
The biblical truth that balances these errors is that forgiveness (justification in Paul's usage) is by faith alone
It is essential to understand that while good works are necessary evidence of genuine faith, they are not the means by which salvation is earned. Salvation is a gift of God's grace, received through faith in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the fruit and outworking of this saving faith (Ephesians 2:10), demonstrating the reality of the believer's transformation in Christ (Titus 2:11-14). In other words, we are saved by faith alone, but saving faith is never alone; it always produces good works (love / fruit) as a result of the Holy Spirit's work in the believer's life (Philippians 2:12-13)."
Irenaeus (130-200AD, bishop and disciple of Polycarp who was a Discple of the apostle John) said the following on the issue which perfectly captures the meaning of Pauls epistles:
6. Hedonism: This error elevates the pursuit of pleasure as the highest good, neglecting the importance of self-control, self-sacrifice for others, and the pursuit of holiness.
The biblical perspective that balances these errors is that Christians should receive God's earthly gifts with gratitude and exercise self-control, preferring others above themselves
This error ignores the ongoing reality of the struggle against temptation and the need for vigilance in the life of a believer, claiming that a true believer is incapable of making mistakes or succumbing to temptation and sinning. This error neglects the need for mercy and patience amongst Christians as they grow in maturity in Christ. While believers might occasionally stumble (James 3:2), it's crucial to distinguish between temporary setbacks and a lifestyle of persistent, unrepentant sin.
By emphasizing the power of God's grace and the possibility of Christlikeness, we embrace a balanced perspective that acknowledges the struggle against temptation while affirming God's power to enable believers to live lives pleasing to Him, avoiding the extremes of believing that Christians are either incapable of sinning or that sin is inevitable.
8. Inevitability of sin:
This error denies the transformative power of the Holy Spirit and the ability of believers to live a life pleasing to God, asserting that loving obedience is impossible and sin is inevitable, even after conversion. Those who hold to this error might say things like, 'We will never be sinless in this life,' or 'we sin in thought, word and deed every day' or 'our righteousness is filthy rags' which suggests that believers are doomed to a life of continuous sin and fails to recognize the transformative power of abiding in Christ and walking by the Spirit. It also denies the fruit of the Spirit in ones life is the actual righteousness of God, not ones own and it isn't filthy rags. John 15 says God is pleased by this fruit and we prove to be Christs disciples by abiding in Him and doing His works.
This is the most dominant error amongst believers so I will spend more time unpacking this one. It is rooted in the traditions and novel interpretations of some prominent protestant reformers and not the new testament, or the early church fathers witness.
Those who hold to this error often cite 1 John 1:8 as evidence for their position, which states,
In fact, just a few verses later, John writes,
Furthermore, throughout his epistle, John emphasizes the transformative power of God's love and the believer's union with Christ
Here are some quotations from the disciples of the disciples to prove my point:
Remember, love is the opposite of sin. Sin the opposite of love. We cannot walk and abide in love and sin. Nor can we abide in sin and profess to love God. They are polar opposites. You walk in one or the other, light or darkness. Whoever abides in love abides in God and God in Him. This is how we can assure our hearts before Him, because as He is so are we in this world. Focus on the positive - love, not on sin aversion.
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Summary:
A. Forgiveness Errors 1. Merit - Forgiveness by works (either religious ceremonies or moral achievements) 2. Cheap Grace - Salvation in willful unrepentant sin B. Rule of Life Errors 3. Legalism - Chrisitans must obey the law of Moses 4. Antinomianism (Lawlessness) - As Christians are freed from the law of Moses, they are free from all moral obligation. C. Relationship to the World Errors 5. Asceticism - Pleasure and enjoyment is sin. 6. Hedonism - Pleasure and enjoyment is the highest good. D. Relationship to Sin & Righteousness Errors 7. Mistakelessness - Its impossible for genuine christians to sin or stumble, obedience is inevitable. 8. Inevitability of Sin - Its impossible for genuine Christians to obey God and live righteously, sin is inevitable.
A) Forgiveness Errors
1. Merit (Forgiveness/Justification by works): This error promotes the idea that salvation (forgiveness of sins) can be earned through good works and obedience, or religious ceremonies and performances neglecting the simplicity of faith and Gods grace. In Pauls time, this was faith in sacrificing bulls and animals to pay for their sins. In modern times its things like penance "do x y and z, and only then will you be forgiven". While repentance does include restoration of the wrong where possible, high church traditions do not normally mean returning a stolen good to someone if you were a thief, they mean do "x" religious practice "x" amount of times to be forgiven. This is not biblical and goes against the concept of being forgiven by Gods grace freely without needing to merit it.2. Cheap Grace (Salvation in wilful deliberate sin): This error separates faith from works, suggesting that one's actions have no bearing on their final salvation. "Once saved always saved" is a facet of this error. So also is treating sin as a transactional thing (eg a mentality of "I will sin then repent later"). People who hold this error often separate Christians into two classes, "carnal" Christians who believe in Jesus for forgiveness but don't want to obey him, and "mature" Christians who do obey him. There is no distinction like this in historical Christianity. There are immature Christians, and mature Christians but anyone who rejects submission to the teachings of Jesus is outside the faith. Jesus clearly warned about these people being wolves amongst sheep, for by their fruits we will know them. Bad trees bring forth bad fruit.
The biblical truth that balances these errors is that forgiveness (justification in Paul's usage) is by faith alone
Romans 3:28 - For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.but genuine faith will inevitably result in a life of loving obedience to Christ through the transforming power of the Holy Spirit, leading to ultimate salvation.
1 Clement 32:4 (LSV - Clement was a hearer of Paul and Peter, a bishop of the Roman church in the 1st century) 4 And we who through His will have been called in Christ Jesus are justified, not by ourselves, or through our wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or the works that we have done in holiness of heart, but by faith, by which all men from the beginning have been justified by Almighty God, to whom be glory through the ages of the ages. Amen.
James 2:14-26 - What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. ...Christians are justified (ie "forgiven and reconciled to God" in Paul's sense) by faith in Christ, not by works of the law
Galatians 5:13-14 - For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Galatians 2:16 - Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.but true faith will naturally produce good works as evidence of the believer's transformed life
Titus 3:8 - The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.While forgiveness is by grace through faith alone, a living faith is never alone but is always accompanied by good works, resulting in ultimate salvation (justification in James' usage).
It is essential to understand that while good works are necessary evidence of genuine faith, they are not the means by which salvation is earned. Salvation is a gift of God's grace, received through faith in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the fruit and outworking of this saving faith (Ephesians 2:10), demonstrating the reality of the believer's transformation in Christ (Titus 2:11-14). In other words, we are saved by faith alone, but saving faith is never alone; it always produces good works (love / fruit) as a result of the Holy Spirit's work in the believer's life (Philippians 2:12-13)."
Ephesians 2:8-9 -For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Titus 2:11-14 - For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
B) Rule of Life Errors
3. Legalism: This error teaches Christians are still bound to the Law of Moses. Sabbatarians fall under this category, as well as the Hebrew Roots movement. These teach we must keep the Torah in totality holding the mosaic law as Gods only and chief expression of His righteous requirement given to men. It rejects the fulfilment of the laws purpose which was to point men to Christ. It also ignores the Holy Spirits role of leading us in all things, having written the law of God on our hearts (Ezekiel 36:26-27) and shedding abroad Gods love in us (Romans 5). It denies we are no longer under the letter of the law but follow the Spirit (Romans 7:6)Ezekiel 36:26-27 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them."4. Antinomianism (Lawlessness): This error correctly teaches we are free from the law of Moses (Romans 7) but doesn't assert we are still bound under the Law of Christ. It leads to open sin and living selfishly to the "flesh". Everyone doing what they think is right in their own eyes like in the book of judges. These people will vehemently assert Romans 7 is a description of the normal Christian life (instead of Pauls life under Judaism before coming to Christ) wanting to do whats right but always living in sin, and deny Romans 8.
Romans 5:5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
Romans 8:3-4 - For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.The biblical truth is we are freed from the law of Moses (torah - first 5 books of the bible) to serve Jesus doing all He taught (which far exceeds the righteousness described in the Law of Moses). This is summed up in one word - Love. But not some generic love, Jesus is the standard of our love according to the book of John. He gave us a new commandment to love as He loved. Romans 13 says love is the fulfilling of the law.
Irenaeus (130-200AD, bishop and disciple of Polycarp who was a Discple of the apostle John) said the following on the issue which perfectly captures the meaning of Pauls epistles:
A Demonstration of the Apostolic PreachingWe do this by not loving this world (1 John 2) but loving Christ above all and our neighbour as our self which we can do by following His Spirit.
Chp96 God has summed up again for Himself in us the faith of Abraham, we ought not to turn back any more-- I mean, to the first legislation. For we have received the Lord of the Law, the Son of God; and by faith in Him we learn to love God with all our heart, and our neighbour as ourselves. Now the love of God is far from all sin, [289] and love to the neighbour worketh no ill to the neighbour. (Cf. Rom xiii. 10) Wherefore also we need not the Law as a tutor. Behold, with the Father we speak, and in His presence we stand, being children in malice , [290] and grown strong in all righteousness and soberness. For no longer shall the Law say, Do not commit adultery, to him who has no desire at all for another's wife; and Thou shalt not kill, to him who has put away from himself all anger and enmity; (and) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's field or ox or ass, to those who have no care at all for earthly things, but store up the heavenly fruits: nor An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, to him who counts no man his enemy, but all men his neighbors, and therefore cannot stretch out his hand at all for vengeance. It will not require tithes of him who consecrates all his possessions to God, [291] leaving father and mother and all his kindred, and following the Word of God. And there will be no command to remain idle for one day of rest, to him who perpetually keeps sabbath, [292] that is to say, who in the temple of God, which is man's body, does service to God, and in every hour works righteousness.
1 John 2:15 - Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.The Spirit of God never leads us into sin but is contrary to the the selfish desires of the flesh that result in sin (Galatians 5:16-17).
Galatians 5:16-17 - I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.Practically it just means walking with a clear conscience always and keeping a pure heart before God, resisting temptation and in short - loving him.
1 Tim 1:5 - The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.Praying and study scripture frequently are means by which we can relate to God, as our salvation is primarily relational not transactional. Viewing salvation as transactional is what leads to the majority of these errors I am addressing. Love (goodwill) fulfils the command of righteousness before God. Jesus said in John 15, apart from Him we can do nothing but if we abide in Him we will bare much fruit.
John 15:4-5 - Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.Love obeys all the teachings of Jesus, and these are not hard teachings to those indwelt by the Spirit of God (1 John 5).
1 John 5:3 - For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
C) Relationship to The World Errors
5. Asceticism: This error promotes extreme self-denial and the rejection of worldly pleasures as a means to attain righteousness, often leading to a legalistic and works-based approach to spirituality. It views pleasure as intrinsically evil.6. Hedonism: This error elevates the pursuit of pleasure as the highest good, neglecting the importance of self-control, self-sacrifice for others, and the pursuit of holiness.
The biblical perspective that balances these errors is that Christians should receive God's earthly gifts with gratitude and exercise self-control, preferring others above themselves
Philippians 4:11-13 - Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. I can do all things through him who strengthens me.Believers are called to live lives of holiness and devotion to God, not indulging in sinful pleasures
Romans 12:10 - Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor.
1 Peter 1:14-16 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."At the same time, they should not embrace extreme asceticism, which can lead to pride and a false sense of righteousness
Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age,
Colossians 2:20-23 - If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— "Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch" (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.God's earthly gifts, when enjoyed with gratitude and moderation, are not inherently evil but are meant to be received with thanksgiving
1 Timothy 4:4 - For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,
D) Relationship to Sin & Righteousness Errors
7. Mistakelessness:This error ignores the ongoing reality of the struggle against temptation and the need for vigilance in the life of a believer, claiming that a true believer is incapable of making mistakes or succumbing to temptation and sinning. This error neglects the need for mercy and patience amongst Christians as they grow in maturity in Christ. While believers might occasionally stumble (James 3:2), it's crucial to distinguish between temporary setbacks and a lifestyle of persistent, unrepentant sin.
James 3:2 - For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.Stumbling is easy as a human, but if we can exercise self control in speech (by the Spirit) we can be complete and fully trained like Jesus, for He to became human:
Luke 6:40 - A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher.Through the transformative power of the Holy Spirit, believers can experience victory over sin and become like Christ in this world (Luke 6:40) but we still may make mistakes.
1 John 3:7 - Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.If stumbling occurs, it should be met with repentance, seeking forgiveness, and learning from one's mistakes - changing how one lives.
1 John 3:24 - Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
1 John 4:17 - By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
By emphasizing the power of God's grace and the possibility of Christlikeness, we embrace a balanced perspective that acknowledges the struggle against temptation while affirming God's power to enable believers to live lives pleasing to Him, avoiding the extremes of believing that Christians are either incapable of sinning or that sin is inevitable.
8. Inevitability of sin:
This error denies the transformative power of the Holy Spirit and the ability of believers to live a life pleasing to God, asserting that loving obedience is impossible and sin is inevitable, even after conversion. Those who hold to this error might say things like, 'We will never be sinless in this life,' or 'we sin in thought, word and deed every day' or 'our righteousness is filthy rags' which suggests that believers are doomed to a life of continuous sin and fails to recognize the transformative power of abiding in Christ and walking by the Spirit. It also denies the fruit of the Spirit in ones life is the actual righteousness of God, not ones own and it isn't filthy rags. John 15 says God is pleased by this fruit and we prove to be Christs disciples by abiding in Him and doing His works.
This is the most dominant error amongst believers so I will spend more time unpacking this one. It is rooted in the traditions and novel interpretations of some prominent protestant reformers and not the new testament, or the early church fathers witness.
Those who hold to this error often cite 1 John 1:8 as evidence for their position, which states,
1 John 1:8 - If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.However, this verse must be understood in its proper context. In 1 John 1:8, John is addressing the false teaching that denies the reality of sin and the need for a Savior
1 John 1:6 - If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.Referring to the Gnostic idea that the spiritual realm is entirely separate from the material realm and that one's actions in the physical world do not affect one's spiritual standing. John is not suggesting that believers are doomed to a life of continuous sin.
1 John 1:10 - If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
In fact, just a few verses later, John writes,
1 John 2:1a - My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin.indicating that the goal of the Christian life is to avoid sin, not to embrace its inevitability. He goes on to say,
1 John 2:1b - But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.acknowledging that while believers may still stumble, they have the provision of Christ's forgiveness and advocacy if they do.
Furthermore, throughout his epistle, John emphasizes the transformative power of God's love and the believer's union with Christ
1 John 3:6 - No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.which enables them to overcome sin and live a life of obedience. This aligns with the broader New Testament teaching that believers have been set free from the dominion of sin and can live a life pleasing to God through the power of the Holy Spirit
1 John 3:9 - No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.
1 John 5:18 - We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.
Romans 6:11-14 - So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.Thus, the error of the inevitability of sin is based on a misinterpretation of 1 John 1:8 and fails to account for the overall message of 1 John and the broader New Testament teaching on the transformative power of God's grace in the life of a believer. It also opposes the earliest extra biblical witnesses on the issue, the very disciples of the disciples.
Galatians 5:16 - But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Here are some quotations from the disciples of the disciples to prove my point:
Ignatius to the Ephesians 14:2 (1st century Bishop and martyr, direct disciple of the apostle John)Irenaeus (130-200AD, bishop and disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the apostle John):
2 No man professing faith sins, and no man possessing love hates. The tree is manifest from its fruit; so they that profess to be Christ’s will be seen through their actions. For the work is not a thing of profession now, but is seen then when one is found in the power of faith to the end.
Polycarp to the Philippians 3:1-3 (1st century Bishop and another martyr, another direct disciple of the apostle John) These things, brothers, I write to you concerning righteousness, not at my own instance, but because you first invited me. 2 For neither am I, nor is any other like me, able to follow the wisdom of the blessed and glorious Paul, who when he was among you in the presence of the men of that time accurately and steadfastly taught the word of truth, and also when he was absent wrote letters to you, from the study of which you will be able to build yourselves up into the faith given to you, 3 “which is the mother of us all” when faith follows, and love of God, and Christ, and neighbor goes before. For if one is in this company, he has fulfilled the command of righteousness, for he who has love is far from all sin.
A Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching
Chp86 And that not by the much speaking of the law, but by the brevity of faith and love, men were to be saved, Isaiah says thus: A word brief and short in righteousness: for a short word will God make in the whole world. (Cf. Isa. x. 23) And therefore the apostle Paul says: Love is the fulfilling of the law: for he who loves God has fulfilled the law. Moreover the Lord, when He was asked which is the first commandment, said: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy strength. [270] And the second is like unto it: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments, He says, all the hangeth and the prophets. So then by our faith in Him He has made our love to God and our neighbour to grow, making us godly and righteous and good. And therefore a short word has God made on the earth in the world.
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The balanced biblical view is that loving obedience is possible through the power of the Holy Spirit, but temptation remains a reality that believers must resistPhilippians 2:12-13 - Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.The New Testament teaches that believers have been set free from the dominion of sin and can live a life of righteousness through Christ and will never be tempted beyond what they can bare.
1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.However, it also acknowledges the ongoing fight against temptation and the possibility of making mistakes, emphasizing the need for repentance if one stumbles and reliance on God's grace
Romans 6:11-14 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
1 John 2:1 - My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.Importantly, the Bible warns that believers will be judged according to their deeds
Romans 2:6-11 - He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.and will have to give an account for their lives, including both their sins and their righteousness
2 Corinthians 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.This truth should motivate Christians to take their sanctification seriously and strive to live a life that is pleasing to God. The New Testament also warns that those who persistently live according to the flesh, even if they profess faith, will face condemnation
Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.While salvation is by grace through faith alone, these warnings underscore the importance of living out one's faith through obedience and good deeds, demonstrating the reality of one's transformation in Christ.
Galatians 6:7-8 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
Hebrews 10:26-31 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Remember, love is the opposite of sin. Sin the opposite of love. We cannot walk and abide in love and sin. Nor can we abide in sin and profess to love God. They are polar opposites. You walk in one or the other, light or darkness. Whoever abides in love abides in God and God in Him. This is how we can assure our hearts before Him, because as He is so are we in this world. Focus on the positive - love, not on sin aversion.
1 John 1: 5-7 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 4:12-18 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
Summary
In summary, the balanced biblical perspective on Christian doctrine can be encapsulated by the phrase "faith working through love," as stated by Paul inGalatians 5:6 - For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.This concise expression captures the essential relationship between faith, works, and the transformative power of God's love in the life of a believer. It effectively addresses the various errors discussed, emphasizing that genuine faith in Christ will naturally express itself through love for God and others, leading to a life of obedience and good works. By understanding and embracing this principle, Christians can develop a more accurate and balanced understanding of their faith, rooted in the teachings of the New Testament and the ante-Nicene Church Fathers.
2024.05.10 01:44 IngusRS I Think J Cole is more involved than we realize...
Hunting Wabbitz:
I'll run in your trap like, "Run me your work 'fore somebody get hurt," nigga, run or get clapped I ain't cool with these dudes, I don't fool with these dudes I don't wanna show love, I don't wanna give dapHere J Cole talks about working on FPS with Drake. He's here for work but he can smell something fishy he's not down with the OVO crew.
Me and your squad is mismatch Your calves ain't strong enough to follow his pathDoes this need explaining? Kendrick even has a line about Drake not attaining his body through hard work. He takes shortcuts and gets plastic surgery etc.
Pop in a new one and let off again Always knew we was gon' get our revenge Aim at whoever ain't dead, I will win You thought 'cause I'm god of this rap shit that I'd just forget all the sins? Oh, how you wishWho has sinned the most in this whole beef? Is it Kendrick? Or is it Drake?
Everybody say that they start at the bottom I don't care to doubt 'em, but this how it ends, nigga Look at you, son Look at what you've become This is how it endsReference to "Started from the Bottom." Ask yourself, is this about Kendrick? Or is this about Drake?
I hit 'em up, bitch, I'm 2Pac twin Came up 'round sharks, so that's just how I swim Came up 'round sharks, so that's just how I swim (That's just how I swim) This how it ends Never see no one get this high againTalking about Drake's fall from grace. Also, calling himself 2Pac's twin is strange considering how often Kendrick compares himself to 2Pac. We didn't see it before but after Kendrick's tracks this is super interesting to me.
[Outro] I'm sorry I'm so sorry for what I've doneI find it strange that Cole ends the track like this... Either he's talking about being sorry for dissing Kendrick the first time with 7 Minute Drill or he's actually referring to Drake here too.
Pi (feat. Ab-Soul & Daylyt):
My head envelops the pen, these ain't fan letters I craft His album dropped, it was trash I litter it like I can't spell it Is you a demon or is that demeanor for the 'Gram? Tell us They plead the fifth, I'm seeing hints of a trans fella In cancel culture's vicinity, he's no killer, trust me Beneath his chosen identity, there is still a pussy periodThe infamous bar that people forgot about and misunderstood, but it makes more context now that Kendrick has dropped his tracks. From Genius: "Cole calls out someone who fronts a gangster facade on the internet by comparing them to a transgender man." I genuinely think he's talking about Drake here. Who uses Instagram to front how hard he is? Is it Kendrick or Drake?
I wonder, will me friends make it past the pearly gates, so we could kick it But based on what their sins say, probably notHere it seems J Cole is affirming that he used to be friends with Drake, but with the future allegations coming to light, he knows he has to cut him off.
Hit lick after lick like a lollipop You niggas take a lie detect', the polygraph'll probably popWho's the liar in this beef? Kendrick or Drake?
All these bodies I done caught, I should probably stop Nah, fuck that, I willingly venture into a den full of lions On some kill or be sent to a funeral home facility To test my ability with this thrilling agendaCole has been working with Kendrick from the beginning. He's part of the plan to take down Drake along with Metro, Future, etc. He might even have connections to Kendrick's so called "mole" or be the mole himself. Since we know he's been working with Drake and OVO recently with FPS and the song with Lil Yachty.
Stickz N Stonez:
These niggas get rich and become so detached, they music start havin' that surface feel Not a subliminal, speakin' in general, feelings get hurt when words get spilled Sticks and stones may break your bones, but sayin' my name in a verse will kill Word to the wise, nigga, we heard all them lies before My number ones come from albums, theirs is burgers and fries to goAsk yourself, is this about Drake or Kendrick? Who does the description fit more? Who's number ones come from albums?
Nigga don't want no smoke with me, I'm one of them ones Hop on a song with whoever, I ain't duckin' no one-on-onesThis line is weird. Because he immediately ducks out of the beef with Kendrick. BUT. This wasn't a 1-on-1 beef. Cole knew that Drake and Kendrick were coming for eachother, it was already a 1-on-1. So this line isn't as hypocritical as you think.
So much drama on the street, feel like the beef is random Murder galore, turn into Thor, I gotta keep a hammer Case weather get inclement, shots rain on the innocent the neighbors still don't know who sent them shits, it's like a secret SantaIn secret Santa, you don't know who bought the "gift" for you, but in this case we're referring to who sent the shots. "Shots rain on the innocent" was Cole aware of the security guard shootings or caught wind of them? Did he know things were going to turn ugly?
Me, I'm out here reachin' for a higher frequency, I plan to rest my feet in presidential suites or sleep in beach cabanasPersonally, I just thought this was funny with all the memes of J Cole on a beach somewhere LOL
How it feel to see the flyest bitch and know that he can land 'em (Are you sure?) Every word I speak on beats, it's guaranteed to feed the fandom (I'm fuckin' with you, right? Okay)Almost feels like he's mocking Drake in this line because of the ad-libs but maybe i'm wrong...
I was gon' hit a lick, break bread with my dogs, and split a loaf, huh And take over the game, make sure that my name's considered GOAT Now I'm back home as the best in the world, The Fall Off, Come and hear the growthIs J Cole subtly referencing that he was planning a big tour with Drake but he turned it down after uncovering something sinister? What alludes me to this conclusion is his use of past tense, I was going to do this, now i'm back home...
I'll leave this quote from the Dreamville Fest on April 7th (Ya'll have until April 7th to get your shit together):
"I moved in a way that I spiritually feel bad on. I tried to jab my nigga back and keep it friendly, but at the end of the day, when I listen to it and when I see the talk, that shit don’t sit right with me with my spirit. That shit disrupts my fucking peace. So what I want to say right here tonight, is that in the midst of me doing that – trying to find a little angle and downplay this nigga’s catalog and greatness – how many people here think Kendrick Lamar is one of the greatest motherfuckers to ever touch the fucking microphone? […] I ain’t gonna lie to y'all, [the] past two days felt terrible, like, it let me know how good I been sleeping these past ten years […] We taking that song off of fucking streaming services."TLDR: J Cole might be the mole or he might know who the mole is.
The way he tapped out immediately and proclaimed Kendrick is the greatest of all time? And DELETED his disstrack at him after only 3 days? Come on. He HAD to have known about or was actively plotting with Kendrick about this whole thing. His personality doesn't mesh with Drake's fake lifestyle at all.
The very last piece of evidence I want to present is this:
Not Like Us - Kendrick Lamar
Did Cole foul? I don't know why you still pretending.To me, Kendrick is asking Drake, "did J Cole make a mistake in dissing me? Or was it part of a bigger agenda?"
I think he purposefully created a weak diss, filled it with holes, because the plan was to remove it later and bow out. The ep is literally called Might Delete Later. Why call a project that unless you were actually planning to delete something later?
Maybe more Cole fans can dissect some bars and weigh in. Only had time to look into these 3 songs. I like Cole but he's not in my regular rotation. I'm way more of a Kendrick fan but it seems like people completely forgot about this J Cole situation and whether there's more to this than meets the eye. Anyways, would love to know your thoughts or if you think this theory is plausible! Thanks for reading.
2024.05.09 07:40 abyss_vevo weirdest dream i had. velociraptor in a poll and a murder story
Had a dream where me and my family went to a velocoraptor in a pool(it was normal). my family and others were swimmimg with him and giving him fish. Me and my brother were scared of him so we did a pullup above the pool so he cant reach us,he suddently teleported near me and told me he know me since 3 year old and then he put me underwater trying to give me my memories back. It djdnt work but i did feel a fammiliar vibe so i had no problem being near him, but i still thought he saying lies, he then told me to meditate underwater but didnt work too and he was sad that my memory got deleted.
I thought he a liar so i accessd my memories(shelf with tons of boxes appeared) and i did saw some boxes i cant access.
Fast forward i find a story from a book of some kid with rich parents that he killed them all, quote from book: "all this rage/hate(cant remember) had to turn into something.. Something no other human can overcome" and then the kid disappeared. I wanted to know more about it so me and my brother went to the castle where it happend.
me and my brother found a resident we thought is a ghost and she told us to get in the castle,we didnt and went to building near it,turns out that "ghost" is just a lady and she trying to stall time because she called the police( she recognise me that I'm that kid) and police take me to dna test that result positive. One officer didnt care and told the other officer the story doesnt make sense and they cant frame me yet. but the other officer didnt care and wanted the case closed,my brother went away and They then want to take me to a bed with medical shit around it (to study me?) instead of a holding cell, which was odd so i run away(with handcuffs outplaying the officers and escaping to what seem like a breakable wall someone already put together for me to escape)
Outside, i find a gateway car waiting for me we drive from the station to nearby house where the driver ask me:"how much money u said again?" and i said enough(idk wtf goin on and i just roll with it to escape) I find a paper with clear instructions to steal money from a castle and what to do on EVERY possible scenario(everything is already orginized to the point that we got delayed and a dood with minigun showed up to take the attention of the cops) and i steal the money and leave. All these instructions and the organizer seem to be made by me -- info about me: im 21 year old male INTP,have bad memories from childhood(was boycotted for years by everyone on school BUT I ACCEPTED IT LONG TIME AGO) but raised to have whatever i want
submitted by abyss_vevo to DreamInterpretation [link] [comments]
I thought he a liar so i accessd my memories(shelf with tons of boxes appeared) and i did saw some boxes i cant access.
Fast forward i find a story from a book of some kid with rich parents that he killed them all, quote from book: "all this rage/hate(cant remember) had to turn into something.. Something no other human can overcome" and then the kid disappeared. I wanted to know more about it so me and my brother went to the castle where it happend.
me and my brother found a resident we thought is a ghost and she told us to get in the castle,we didnt and went to building near it,turns out that "ghost" is just a lady and she trying to stall time because she called the police( she recognise me that I'm that kid) and police take me to dna test that result positive. One officer didnt care and told the other officer the story doesnt make sense and they cant frame me yet. but the other officer didnt care and wanted the case closed,my brother went away and They then want to take me to a bed with medical shit around it (to study me?) instead of a holding cell, which was odd so i run away(with handcuffs outplaying the officers and escaping to what seem like a breakable wall someone already put together for me to escape)
Outside, i find a gateway car waiting for me we drive from the station to nearby house where the driver ask me:"how much money u said again?" and i said enough(idk wtf goin on and i just roll with it to escape) I find a paper with clear instructions to steal money from a castle and what to do on EVERY possible scenario(everything is already orginized to the point that we got delayed and a dood with minigun showed up to take the attention of the cops) and i steal the money and leave. All these instructions and the organizer seem to be made by me -- info about me: im 21 year old male INTP,have bad memories from childhood(was boycotted for years by everyone on school BUT I ACCEPTED IT LONG TIME AGO) but raised to have whatever i want
2024.05.08 23:15 BannerTortoise Chaotic episode 5 Review
 | Episode 5 is another episode with a split A/B plot story. Two characters go on a scan quest in Perim, one has a match, and the fourth watches the match giving commentary. This episode gives us another 3v3 match with Kaz, introduces another reoccurring character to the side cast, and follows up on a plot-point from a previous episode. submitted by BannerTortoise to Chaotic [link] [comments] . Episode: In episode 5, Crash Course, Tom and Sarah are in the middle of a scan quest gone array when Tom discovers a super rare creature and tries to scan them for his deck. Meanwhile, Kaz has a match with Klay while Peyton cheers them on from the side lines. . Recap: The episode opens with Tom and Sarah running away from Staluk after trying to scan him. They get away from "My Angry Pony" by jumping off a waterfall, and after the opening it's shown they survived by landing in water, but it messed up Tom's Staluk. https://preview.redd.it/zt5s8b4pp9zc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=c34152682ce428f0c237689cd8358ea078d7ecc5 We cut to Chaotic with Peyton hyping up Kaz for his coming match, until he finds out he's going up against Klay, the player that tricked Tom in episode 2. This is his second major appearance in the show as it's also his first on-screen match. https://preview.redd.it/yhthmhnqp9zc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=1bc43b128c514330833eeb8529d9a685759b5a30 Peyton knows Klay, and warns Kaz that as well as being a bad guy, he's a skilled player, mentioning his collection of battlegear. But Kaz is confident, stating he has rare battle gear too, flashing back to when he scanned the Vile Driver in episode 3. Back in Perim, Tom wants to go back and scan Staluk, determined to get a new creature for his deck. Sarah just wants to leave since she wants to watch Kaz's match. In terms of character, this is bad for Tom since he can always come back after the match to try again. Sarah wanting to root for Kaz is a win for her character. At that moment, they have to hide as Yokkis runs out being chased by Tharax. Yokkis uses some traps he had set to deal with Tharax before making a getaway. Sarah once again wants to leave, but Tom makes mention of Yokkis being as powerful as Maxxor and wants to scan him instead. https://preview.redd.it/gfamuknxp9zc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=922b42df9bccf2234fbabeeb76435bfbf31663e2 https://preview.redd.it/tgcs5pyyp9zc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=8f0d1a34589689d3b20759c0c5f2d411b604e867 We return to Chaotic at the start of the match with Kaz and Klay building their teams. Last episode, Kaz built an all Underworld team based around Takinom and her ability. This time, he builds a mixed team with Zhade, Blazier and Chaor. A Mipedian, an Overworlder, and an Underworlder. In the actually game, you can't play Chaor on a mixed team, but since this is the show, some creatures have differing stats and abilities like with Tartarek. Kaz equips his battle gear as he chooses his creatures instead of placing the creatures first, but he does give Chaor the Vile Driver before finishing his set up. https://preview.redd.it/bi1sgzd0q9zc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=406cb1cd6eddc4e90bee6975b830faa3b7e46c00 With both of them finished, we see the full board. Klay mocks Kaz's teambuilding, saying they don't work together because of their separate tribes. He's not wrong. Kaz has gone for a more surprise/unexpected approach to counter Klay's team, but his team lacks the synergy of his last one. Klay is an Underworld player, so he's built a team of all Underworlders, using Dardemus, Pyrithion and Ulmar. https://preview.redd.it/hyorg4j1q9zc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=bdd4366c3ba8f6812ce4620b69a87b39f242f78f The match starts with Klay getting the first attack, and chooses Dardemus versus Zhade. We have a moment with Peyton talking to another player who faced Klay, and lost, but Peyton is still confident in Kaz to win. Another player speaks up, a goth rooting for Klay to win, saying Kaz doesn't stand a chance. The first battle begins with Klay riding a glider while throwing flame orbs at Kaz, knocking him off the platform he's on, and dropping his battle gear into the water at Skeletal Springs. Kaz uses Embernova to distract Klay before getting back up to knock him out of the sky, dropping him into the springs, coding him from the impact or the acid water. https://preview.redd.it/wu9i8x03q9zc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=c6fefdedf6aa34490f69340cf93a107f61b8da15 Back in Perim, Tom and Sarah find Yokkis's house. Tom tries to get a scan by walking up to his door. Yokkis plays one of his pranks on Tom, and throws bees at him. My god. There's a small montage of Tom's failed attempts to scan the creature, all being foiled by Yokkis and his pranks/traps. Sarah is still there, most likely to make sure Tom doesn't die, or at least return the body. https://preview.redd.it/rvij9q28q9zc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=d644b24ab6a8a70f4840950244472daa95fcd70e We miss the next battle of the match, only getting a brief version of events from Peyton and the goth. Kaz lost Blazier to Pyrithion using a Liquilizer. Both players are using one in this match. It's a basic piece of battle gear in the show since most players have it. https://preview.redd.it/anzqrj7aq9zc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=4a3614f851bc5fd0bebb6d6d967232e583e56a2a Peyton asks what her deal is, and she introduces herself as Krystella. She has an appreciation for highly skilled players in her own words, before mocking Kaz. Peyton shows his support by cheering Kaz on during the Zhade versus Pyrithion battle. Kaz tries to pull a comeback using Zhade's invisibility to get away from Klay, but using the Liquilizer, he tries a mist to see his movements, and blasts him into code in one shot. Kaz is down to his last creature, while Klay still has two left. https://preview.redd.it/r8yopp6cq9zc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=20ec26a5a52fa9595d4082936f99244dd7b094e8 Peyton calls him before Kaz's attack to give him a pep-talk. During the battle, Klay waits for Kaz in a place with one entrance. But that's when Kaz bursts through the door on the Vile Driver, and blasts Pyrithion back into code, tying up the score with both players down to one creature each. https://preview.redd.it/9qxmo19eq9zc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=afb825c6dbb6a4ba53fda30856d53daef1d9ebc9 Some of the battles in this episode are skimmed through. The show does this with match episodes. Because the usual match is 6v6, they'd often have a montage of creatures battling, seeing them getting coded in the drome, or just their card on the screen. It's not that bad in this episode since it was only 3v3, but it becomes a running tool for the show to use for match focused episodes. We get back to Tom's attempt to scan Yokkis with him giving up, and agreeing to return to Chaotic with Sarah, only to see Tharax setting Yokkis's house on fire. https://preview.redd.it/cf0fu38hq9zc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=a5a1df589dfb703cb43e7f79de0d3bb969c2d8bf For the final battle of the match, Kaz wanders the location with the Vile Driver feeling pretty confident, until Klay shows up as Ulmar riding another Vile Driver. Kaz realices that Klay must have scanned his version before Kaz destroyed it. Ulmar built the battle gear, so Klay is able to operate it better than Kaz can, putting him at the disadvantage. Yokkis is running for his life from Tharax. The Underworlder means business this time. Tom comes to their aid, and uses the bee prank on Tharax, sending them packing, saving Yokkis. Kaz is on his last leg with his Vile Driver being on fire. He changes tactics, and decides to charge for Klay, the pair blasting at each other while Peyton shields his eyes, unable to watch as the two Drivers crash into each other, and explodes. https://preview.redd.it/w1hv906oq9zc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=0f0b8a2c9a803fbf47c23d47f5a7d39f5f9ef522 The winner is Kaz. Klay demands a replay, and the voice over shows him that before the Drivers blew up, Kaz just jumped for it. Kaz used his experience with the original to outsmart Klay, and thus won the match. Klay demands revenge before storming out. To end the episode, Tom and Sarah walk with Yokkis, thanking him for the save. However, when Tom tries to get his scan, Yokkis just pranks him again, and runs off, making the scan quest pointless. . Characters: As well as the main cast, this episode gave us both our antagonist players with Klay and Krystella. Tom was done poorly in this episode. He cares more about getting a new scan than he does cheering his friend on in a drome match against the guy that tricked him. It's funny how in the end he doesn't even get the scan of Yokkis. I said before that Tom could have just come back after the match to try to scan Staluk again. Sarah doesn't have much to do in this episode. She stays in Perim with Tom throughout the episode instead of just leaving to watch the match. Most likely to make sure he doesn't get killed. She will get an episode of her own soon. Despite the issue with his team building, Kaz was alright in this episode. We got to see more of his creative style of battling. Using Zhade's air attacks to put out flames, and crashing the Vile Driver into Klay to earn his final win. This was a fun episode for him, but he does have better matches in later episodes. Peyton is put on the side lines to watch the match, but he does get something to do. While Kaz is battling Klay, Peyton spends the match battling Krystella, the two being at odds with each other due to their conflicting personalities, and choice of player to root for. We'll get more of this in another, interesting episode down the road. "Klay's vicious. He's a liar, a cheater, and a bully. And those are his good qualities." Klay shows off these traits during the episode. Out of the match he knocks a guys drink out of their hand, and steals someone else's before trash talking Kaz. During the match, he continues to mock, and trash Kaz. We already know of his lying in episode 2, but we don't see him actually cheat in this episode. Klay has an ace creature, but we won't see him use them for a while. It's another Underworlder, but one more sinister. This is Krystella's first appearance. This is before she teams up with Klay, but she's already on his side. She's not as bad as he is, but she is still terrible. We'll see her more in later episodes, often clashing with the main cast, mostly Peyton. It's surprising they didn't make her Sarah's rival, but instead Peyton's due to their personalities. https://preview.redd.it/v0s9tvksq9zc1.jpg?width=189&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f82fc78b51690e993e93fe222314518349410e0a Something I've noticed is that to make the main cast more likeable and for us to root for them more, they make the opponent more arrogant, or toxic. While this does work, it also leaves most of the opponents to blend in with each other. There's only a handful of opponent's that the cast face that are actually pretty chill. . Creatures: In this episode, we got six creatures in the dromes as part of the match, and three creatures in Perim. This was the first time seeing Chaor in a drome match with Kaz using him. They appeared in the Vile Driver episode, but that was the actually creature. A lot of the battle happened with the Vile Driver, so we didn't get to see Chaor actually fight. It was still cool to finally see Kaz use his favourite creature. https://preview.redd.it/2dg2i3s5l9zc1.jpg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ced84f957c35774039fde496f39720d7796f9d9c Ulmar appearing in this match with the Vile Driver was a great idea. For one, he was its inventor, so knows how to use it, but also the idea of Ulmar's hatred of Kaz transcends the cards. https://preview.redd.it/2kbskkz3l9zc1.jpg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18e6a2b7bbd08ca73f1d80e401f6f516ba09dbf7 Pyrithion was a lot better in this episode than the last one. They actually get to battle in this episode, as well as coding two creatures in a row. They did get coded in the end, but that's because Kaz had a Vile Driver. https://preview.redd.it/o0coe2j2l9zc1.jpg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72a24bbdc369f28fe732f2128e00061645a6ec25 Dardemus was alright. They put Kaz on edge for the first battle, and would have coded Zhade if Kaz didn't think to use his mugic or abilities to knock him out of the sky. https://preview.redd.it/61q90o61l9zc1.jpg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae542bccdc7e4c326ce822d86f72cb14cef2ee7c Zhade is seen a few times in battle. He does okay in this match, at least getting one win before getting coded by Klay. He's one of those creatures that's better in Perim than he is in the dromes due to his status in the tribe. https://preview.redd.it/bknkpfiel9zc1.jpg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55c3b9b866c1921209a1b8431957a039d4359208 Blazer appears in one match, and gets coded. Compared to how the actually creature is in Perim, as seen in episode 3, this isn't their best moment. https://preview.redd.it/0pyaojnzk9zc1.jpg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d53bba02f9331940c1a96680eb546e2bcdff4b66 Yokkis is the main creature of the Perim side of the episode. I found his segments to be boring when I first watched it, and when rewatching it for this review. I just wanted to see the match more. His not letting Tom scan him at the end was amusing, since it made Tom's scan quest pointless, and it gave him karma for missing his friend's match. Tharax plays the role as creature antagonist. To be fair, he was nearly eaten by a plant, so him trying to get revenge on Yokkis makes sense. Tharax is one of those creatures that makes appearances, but doesn't have a card in the actually game. Staluk only appears at the start of the episode, and is forgotten about when Tom sees Yokkis and wants to scan him instead. Tom does later fight with Staluk in his deck, so he might have gotten that scan in a later episode before this. . Final Thoughts: This was an okay episode. The match with Kaz against Klay was fun. We got to see Kaz get a win over a player like Klay, as well as see Kaz use the Vile Driver in a match. The parts with Yokkis didn't interest me, and this wasn't a good episode for Tom's character. We'll see more of Klay in later episodes, as well as better character moments for Tom. Next time, we have our first 6v6 match, as well as get introduced to one of the worst creatures in the Overworld. . Quote of the Episode: "Ulmar built the Vile Driver. But I'm the one who knew how to wreck it and survive." - Kaz |
2024.05.08 15:57 Adventurous_Cable470 AITA For telling my birth mom I would never go to her house?
Hello reddit, this is my first actual post on here so i'll do my best to explain the full situation to the best of my abilities. Maybe i'll get on one of those Minecraft videos if i do leave the link in the comments lol. Clarifying, I am 15m, and i'll answer any questions in the comments to the best of my abilities.
My entire childhood I have only memories of my brother (21m). My dad worked and drank a lot while my mom was depressed and tended to bed rot (sleep, eat, watch tv, etc while just in general staying in her little bubble, ignoring me and my brother unless absolutely necessary.) My brother was the one that raised me, bathed me, fed me, and loved me. He was only 7 years older than me, but had to raise me like I was his kid. I have good and bad memories, but he did the best he could raising a kid as a kid himself, and I love him more than words could describe. My dad actually acknowledged this and agreed this did in fact happen recently to me.
Back to my mother though, she always was the attention seeker type. One memory I have of her was one of me and my dad fighting. They did this a lot, but it got to a point where they were yelling so loud my brother had to cover my ears. I was an undiagnosed neurodivergent and absolutely freaked out over any loud noises, he took me into his room to distract me a lot while i was a kid. After they quieted down a bit, I realized I had to use the bathroom, so my brother unlocked his door and had me go while promising me that it'd be okay. I did so, but when I came out, I heard the bickering a lot more clearer. I was about 12, so i was prone to being very nosey, because what twelve year old wouldn't be?, I began to listen and spy on them past the corner of the hallway. My mom was yelling about him not giving her attention (no attention would be good enough for her lol) which was a pretty common occurrence. Except this time, she was livid. Something else that I can't remember because there was just so much over the years that I couldn't keep track of it all even if I wanted to. But, being there, I watched as she picked up a big hunk of metal, a metal holder that we had grapes in at the time to be exact, and chucked it at him. Yes, when I say chucked, I mean directly at his head. Grapes and all. Thankfully, he dodged it as far as i'm aware, and walked out of the house after saying he was leaving. I then watched my 42 year old mother flop herself on the ground and start throwing a temper-tantrum as she aggressively picked up grapes, threw them back in the bin, and pouted. Keep in mind, she was a bigger lady, at least 300lbs+. I waddled my little self out, and my mom looked at me, still sobbing and lip wobbly, and said, and I quote,
"I GUESS WE DON'T HAVE GRAPES ANYMORE!"
And if that doesn't queue you in on how much of a "victim" she made herself into, then might I summarize lightly some of the other things she's done. Trigger warning for 1, 2, and 3, as it has mentions of s/h and suicide
1. Told me I was the reason they'd never be able to buy a house when I was in such a bad spot mentally I tried to end it (said this as she was driving me to the hospital), then proceeded to yell at me to tell the doctors what I did which made me so embarrassed I shut down even more than I already did at that point
2. Told me my pity had run out because I told her I wanted to go back to the mental hospital because I wanted to end my life again and refused (this was after #1 happened)
3. Watched my brother try to do something of that sort and literally did nothing
4. Threatened to beat me WAY more times to count
5. Left us at school over 3+ hours after we got out because she was sleeping and didn't wake up.
6. Always tried to keep me from seeing my brother when he moved out with the excuse he didn't want me there (he was always the one to invite me)
7. Her therapist had to ask her to stop seeing them because she was trying to start using their own tactics against them (shes a narcissist)
and more.
Flash forward to a little over a year ago. My dad never left her after the incident with the grapes (though he should've) but they came across my current home. It's a little trailer in the middle of woods and we all fell in love with it. EXCEPT my mom. But, she agreed on the condition my dad added an air conditioner, a shower and got rid of the bugs (which, to add, he did all but there are always gonna be some bugs every once in a while because we live in literally THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE.) but he complied. We got the property and trailer. But to add salt to the wound, she decided to wait to pack up the house till the DAY BEFORE we were supposed to be out of it, which resulted in her forcing me to stay home from school and pull an all nighter with her to get it all done, but, we got it done. We began to settle in, and my mom began talking with me about how i'd feel about her divorcing my dad. For a couple years shes been doing the same thing at random points, so we never really thought anything would come of it and I shrugged and told her the same thing I always did.
"as long as you handle it properly and are happy, then that's all that matters!"
My school year ends soon after, and i'm excited. I finally get to make the garden i've been planning on for months, I can finally organize, and i'm overall so happy. I finish my exams and go to sleep. I wake up the next morning to find myself at home alone and a text from my mom saying she'd be back later that night. I shrug, excited to have the house to myself (my dad was at work), and watch TV in the living-room, scream one or two cuss words, and expect her to be back today and enjoy her one day hanging out with friends.
But as summer stretched on, one day turned into 3 days and nights, and i began to mentally berate myself, thinking it was all my fault, until one day I got in the car with her and she tells me that she "broke up" with my dad. NOT divorced, broke up. She told him she didn't want to be with him anymore, and I congratulated her. I asked her if she had a boyfriend, she said no, and we moved on. A couple months pass and me and my dad get very close. He started to take genuine care of me and my mental health, we were having family nights of just me and him, and my mental health improved, until, she decided to visit me one day. She greeted me, and we talked (my dad was at work), and then, she unlocked her phone. What was her lockscreen, you may ask? Well, it was a photo of her eating a man's face that I had never seen before! I questioned her, we fought, and I told her to tell my dad. She disagreed, said it was none of his business, then i reminded her that they still are in fact married, even if it's just legally. She did, and that morphed into a whole argument and my dad then served her (on their 15 year anniversary may i add, good on you dad!)
But, the entire family had a falling out because of this. She lied to my brother (which i'll get to later) for a second time, and thus resulted in him completely cutting her off. My grandparents cut her off, my uncles did, everyone did except her biological mom. My uncles actually did a background check on the guy, I can't use his name so i'll use the name "ted."
Back to her lying to my brother, he asked one question. Did he have domestic battery on his record? She said no. Well, during this background check, we found that not only did he have domestic battery WITH a minor present, but he also had no license due to not paying his child support.
I, not being aware of this, asked to meet him at one point. When I found out of this, I got uncomfortable of the idea and immediately changed my mind and told her. She rolled her eyes, but agreed. A couple weeks go by and I spend the night at my brother's house, but my mom needs to pick me up. Guess whos in the car with her? TED! THAT'S RIGHT! She went against my very simple request just because she thought that it was, "unfair that I was judging him on his past." I ended up having a panic attack in the car and she called me over dramatic about the fact.
Recently though, my dad cut her off. She's been wanting to see me, but she did something that i'll never forget and so i've been iffy to talk to her, plus every time i do she always makes it about her. Over the last few weeks shes made it very clear to me that the only reason she wants custody of me is for the child support, and she wants to sell the only stable environment i've had through all of this (the trailer) so she could get the money.
Last time we talked she told me that I needed to get over her dating Ted because theyve been dating almost a year and that i'll be seeing him all the time when she has custody of me. She told me that she wanted to take me to his house, where he and she live now, because shes too broke to take me anywhere. I refused, and told her i'd never go there, even over my dead body. She cussed me out, then left, And i've been ignoring her ever since. Might I say, she hasn't gotten a job since my dad cut her off financially, and he even gave her a 4 month warning about it. It's not that she cant find a job, she just refuses to get a job at fast food. She's been trying to apologize over text but she does this every single time we fight and every single time I cave for her. She is a pathological liar, and we all know this, but I question if I was too mean about this.
so, AITA?
submitted by Adventurous_Cable470 to AITAH [link] [comments]
My entire childhood I have only memories of my brother (21m). My dad worked and drank a lot while my mom was depressed and tended to bed rot (sleep, eat, watch tv, etc while just in general staying in her little bubble, ignoring me and my brother unless absolutely necessary.) My brother was the one that raised me, bathed me, fed me, and loved me. He was only 7 years older than me, but had to raise me like I was his kid. I have good and bad memories, but he did the best he could raising a kid as a kid himself, and I love him more than words could describe. My dad actually acknowledged this and agreed this did in fact happen recently to me.
Back to my mother though, she always was the attention seeker type. One memory I have of her was one of me and my dad fighting. They did this a lot, but it got to a point where they were yelling so loud my brother had to cover my ears. I was an undiagnosed neurodivergent and absolutely freaked out over any loud noises, he took me into his room to distract me a lot while i was a kid. After they quieted down a bit, I realized I had to use the bathroom, so my brother unlocked his door and had me go while promising me that it'd be okay. I did so, but when I came out, I heard the bickering a lot more clearer. I was about 12, so i was prone to being very nosey, because what twelve year old wouldn't be?, I began to listen and spy on them past the corner of the hallway. My mom was yelling about him not giving her attention (no attention would be good enough for her lol) which was a pretty common occurrence. Except this time, she was livid. Something else that I can't remember because there was just so much over the years that I couldn't keep track of it all even if I wanted to. But, being there, I watched as she picked up a big hunk of metal, a metal holder that we had grapes in at the time to be exact, and chucked it at him. Yes, when I say chucked, I mean directly at his head. Grapes and all. Thankfully, he dodged it as far as i'm aware, and walked out of the house after saying he was leaving. I then watched my 42 year old mother flop herself on the ground and start throwing a temper-tantrum as she aggressively picked up grapes, threw them back in the bin, and pouted. Keep in mind, she was a bigger lady, at least 300lbs+. I waddled my little self out, and my mom looked at me, still sobbing and lip wobbly, and said, and I quote,
"I GUESS WE DON'T HAVE GRAPES ANYMORE!"
And if that doesn't queue you in on how much of a "victim" she made herself into, then might I summarize lightly some of the other things she's done. Trigger warning for 1, 2, and 3, as it has mentions of s/h and suicide
1. Told me I was the reason they'd never be able to buy a house when I was in such a bad spot mentally I tried to end it (said this as she was driving me to the hospital), then proceeded to yell at me to tell the doctors what I did which made me so embarrassed I shut down even more than I already did at that point
2. Told me my pity had run out because I told her I wanted to go back to the mental hospital because I wanted to end my life again and refused (this was after #1 happened)
3. Watched my brother try to do something of that sort and literally did nothing
4. Threatened to beat me WAY more times to count
5. Left us at school over 3+ hours after we got out because she was sleeping and didn't wake up.
6. Always tried to keep me from seeing my brother when he moved out with the excuse he didn't want me there (he was always the one to invite me)
7. Her therapist had to ask her to stop seeing them because she was trying to start using their own tactics against them (shes a narcissist)
and more.
Flash forward to a little over a year ago. My dad never left her after the incident with the grapes (though he should've) but they came across my current home. It's a little trailer in the middle of woods and we all fell in love with it. EXCEPT my mom. But, she agreed on the condition my dad added an air conditioner, a shower and got rid of the bugs (which, to add, he did all but there are always gonna be some bugs every once in a while because we live in literally THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE.) but he complied. We got the property and trailer. But to add salt to the wound, she decided to wait to pack up the house till the DAY BEFORE we were supposed to be out of it, which resulted in her forcing me to stay home from school and pull an all nighter with her to get it all done, but, we got it done. We began to settle in, and my mom began talking with me about how i'd feel about her divorcing my dad. For a couple years shes been doing the same thing at random points, so we never really thought anything would come of it and I shrugged and told her the same thing I always did.
"as long as you handle it properly and are happy, then that's all that matters!"
My school year ends soon after, and i'm excited. I finally get to make the garden i've been planning on for months, I can finally organize, and i'm overall so happy. I finish my exams and go to sleep. I wake up the next morning to find myself at home alone and a text from my mom saying she'd be back later that night. I shrug, excited to have the house to myself (my dad was at work), and watch TV in the living-room, scream one or two cuss words, and expect her to be back today and enjoy her one day hanging out with friends.
But as summer stretched on, one day turned into 3 days and nights, and i began to mentally berate myself, thinking it was all my fault, until one day I got in the car with her and she tells me that she "broke up" with my dad. NOT divorced, broke up. She told him she didn't want to be with him anymore, and I congratulated her. I asked her if she had a boyfriend, she said no, and we moved on. A couple months pass and me and my dad get very close. He started to take genuine care of me and my mental health, we were having family nights of just me and him, and my mental health improved, until, she decided to visit me one day. She greeted me, and we talked (my dad was at work), and then, she unlocked her phone. What was her lockscreen, you may ask? Well, it was a photo of her eating a man's face that I had never seen before! I questioned her, we fought, and I told her to tell my dad. She disagreed, said it was none of his business, then i reminded her that they still are in fact married, even if it's just legally. She did, and that morphed into a whole argument and my dad then served her (on their 15 year anniversary may i add, good on you dad!)
But, the entire family had a falling out because of this. She lied to my brother (which i'll get to later) for a second time, and thus resulted in him completely cutting her off. My grandparents cut her off, my uncles did, everyone did except her biological mom. My uncles actually did a background check on the guy, I can't use his name so i'll use the name "ted."
Back to her lying to my brother, he asked one question. Did he have domestic battery on his record? She said no. Well, during this background check, we found that not only did he have domestic battery WITH a minor present, but he also had no license due to not paying his child support.
I, not being aware of this, asked to meet him at one point. When I found out of this, I got uncomfortable of the idea and immediately changed my mind and told her. She rolled her eyes, but agreed. A couple weeks go by and I spend the night at my brother's house, but my mom needs to pick me up. Guess whos in the car with her? TED! THAT'S RIGHT! She went against my very simple request just because she thought that it was, "unfair that I was judging him on his past." I ended up having a panic attack in the car and she called me over dramatic about the fact.
Recently though, my dad cut her off. She's been wanting to see me, but she did something that i'll never forget and so i've been iffy to talk to her, plus every time i do she always makes it about her. Over the last few weeks shes made it very clear to me that the only reason she wants custody of me is for the child support, and she wants to sell the only stable environment i've had through all of this (the trailer) so she could get the money.
Last time we talked she told me that I needed to get over her dating Ted because theyve been dating almost a year and that i'll be seeing him all the time when she has custody of me. She told me that she wanted to take me to his house, where he and she live now, because shes too broke to take me anywhere. I refused, and told her i'd never go there, even over my dead body. She cussed me out, then left, And i've been ignoring her ever since. Might I say, she hasn't gotten a job since my dad cut her off financially, and he even gave her a 4 month warning about it. It's not that she cant find a job, she just refuses to get a job at fast food. She's been trying to apologize over text but she does this every single time we fight and every single time I cave for her. She is a pathological liar, and we all know this, but I question if I was too mean about this.
so, AITA?
2024.05.07 22:19 EnthusiasmBrave7748 I reported my ex to the police and I feel lighter
 | TL;DR: Abusive ex-husband got kicked from my social group and I filed a police report against him for the crimes he committed against me. I will no longer protect a rapist from consequences because said perpetrator is worried about his future and believes I should be worried about it as well. Today, I successfully received a protection order against him. I feel so much lighter! Read my old post from December for more context. submitted by EnthusiasmBrave7748 to abusiverelationships [link] [comments] He had me convinced that pursuing justice would be selfish and unnecessary because he's changed. Why in the world was I allowing him to decide for me what best to do about his actions that harmed me? Triggering items hidden behind spoiler bars! A few weeks ago, I confided in a friend about some of the abuse I had endured (rape, coercive control and emotional abuse) and she asked me if I wanted him to remain in the friend group. Although he and I had gone relatively no contact, agreeing to not see each other at parties our friends hosted and choosing which events each of us attended, we would still see each other at larger events (20+ people) and birthdays. I had spent months protecting him to my own detriment. I wanted things to be amicable, but with time and space, it was getting harder as I came to terms with his treatment of me. I told her that although I would love for my friends to not be friends with him, I understand that most of them didn't know what he had done, and I don't want to make that decision for them. I also believed he was on the path of change, so even though it was increasingly difficult for me to be around him, I didn't want to hinder that. He had owned up to his mistakes in the past and I believed he was a good person otherwise. She understood and departed. Within the next two days, he was kicked out of all the group chats and informed that he made people (other than me) uncomfortable. He was very upset and immediately blamed me while simultaneously claiming that he didn't do what he was being accused of.... and then proceeded to describe to her his actions, which are a textbook description of rape. Although I was consulted before he was kicked out to ensure my safety or divorce proceedings were not at risk, I was also told that without those caveats, it was going to happen and he would be informed that it was not a decision I made. Immediately after he was kicked out, he sent the following: He did know, he just didn't think I'd check. He tried to make it seem like nobody explained to him why he was being booted, but I heard from the booter that they spoke over the phone immediately after and, without her saying the word, he started denying that what he did was rape. After that phone call, he sent that first message. His "impression that you asked me not to talk to people about this" is correct, because when we first separated, he wanted to "own up" to it. However, in practice, he was telling friends that we were just "very sexually incompatible" so I asked him to stop because he was just changing the narrative and talking over me, the victim. I agreed that I would not tell everyone, but that some people knew because I needed support. He begged me to not get into details with those people. I reluctantly agreed because I was so, so tired of fighting him. I agonized for months. I would get drunk and slip up, telling people but not remembering doing so. I would reassure them that I don't think he realized the gravity of what he was doing (bullshit, he was just able to get away with it) and he is a good person otherwise. Two years ago, when we stopped being Jehovah's Witnesses, he had sent this to someone who I spoke to about the issue with the plan to speak about it very publicly. He wanted this read ahead of time. "We live in an age where it is much easier to hold people accountable for their past actions. I think this is generally a positive thing, but one of the downsides can be that the fear of, to quote, "Cancel Culture", can create a fear of admitting one's mistakes.However, I think that the most important things one can do to atone for their mistakes, is to own up to those mistakes and the harm that they have caused to other people, and try to speak up about those things to potentially help others deal with their own situations or prevent their own mistakes. So with that in mind; and with a lot of fear of judgement, I want to talk about the abuse I inflicted in my marriage, and encourage my wife to openly talk about it as well. I want to personally talk to men that might, as a result of Watchtower's views on gender relations, have subconscious attitudes that lead to abusive behavior. In many ways, we as men are trained to have a sense of entitlement about sex. This can normalize pressuring one's spouse. And this pressure can escalate. If you are guilting your wife into sex, if you are making her feel like she can't say no, if you are reminding her how long it has been since you last had sex or reminding her that she promised; the sex you are having is not consensual. This is abuse. It's easy to feel like you are just whining; like you are being wronged; like your spouse is withholding something from you that you have been told your whole life is required to be shared between you. But complaining or whining or pouting until you get your way is emotional abuse. Sex is not owed; it is to be given freely. By trapping us into marriages where we cannot leave and sex is owed, we are trained to have a view of sex that does not involve true, willing consent. And this is abuse. And when this behavior gets normalized, marriages become toxic. Sex can become a thing one spouse begs for and one spouse dreads. And when you pressure your spouse into sex they do not want, because they know you will make them absolutely miserable if they don't- that is rape. The R-word is a scary word. No one wants to be told that they are guilty of it. They don't want to associate it with themselves. It's such a toxic word that we will go through great lengths to deny that we have done it. But you don't need to pin someone down and force yourself on them to be guilty of it. The Watchtower creates a culture in which sexual abuse can be normalized; after taking the time to go to therapy- which I highly recommend- I cannot stress enough how many active Jehovah's Witnesses I know are in unhealthy sexual relationships. Scheduled sex and spouses who demand their due is sexual abuse and can be rape. One of the biggest challenges I discovered is that there are almost no resources for people who discover that they are the abuser in a relationship; almost everything you find is people telling you that if your spouse has abused you sexually, you need to get out. When I was first seeing a therapist, I could not find any resources online to help rehabilitate men who realized they have been the abusive partner. I think it is incredibly important to normalize these discussions and I want to go first. I can only ask for forgiveness and do my best to advocate for other victims and perhaps try to help unwitting perpetrators. I thank everyone who takes the time to listen to this, and I am sorry most of all to my best friend and partner." You'll notice he avoided outlining the specific actions he took, and seemed to insinuate that our issues were "scheduled sex and spouses who demand their due," which, although an issue, was not the core of it. He was coercive and would take advantage of me when I couldn't consent. He'll frequently say he never held me down, so it wasn't violent rape. But he penetrated me anally without my consent with no lubricant. He wouldn't take no for an answer and allowed the tension of what would happen if I attempted to leave hang in the air while I assured him that what he was doing was without my consent and I did not want it (he said "I'll be quick"), but we were on vacation and I had no way home without him. He waited until I was black out drunk and I would wake up sore, bruised and covered in hickeys. He would force me into positions that hurt. He would take things like breath play too far, force himself into my mouth, make me have sex in public, and generally ignore any verbal or nonverbal expressions of nonconsent. So... since he was willing to own up to it to a lot of different friends in the past, in messages with me, in counseling (marriage and private) but now he is denying it and calling me a liar... I reported him to the police. He is likely to reoffend with someone else, and I do not want that to happen. I also want justice for myself. I want him to pay the consequences that he forced me to shoulder in his stead. I'll lose alimony and my retirement, but if it puts him behind bars... good. If the criminal trial doesn't come to fruition, I will go after him in civil court. I am so done protecting this monster. |
2024.05.07 22:09 ewk TuesdAMA: ewk
What is TuesdAMA?
Public interview is the core communal tradition in the Zen lineage. It's so basic and essential and intrinsic that any individual or organization claiming to be Zen that does not sponsor weekly public interviews is not Zen.AMAs have a bit of a history in Zen of being used to expose frauds, liars, cheats, new agers, meditation worshippers, and Western Buddhist posers... because anybody can say anything on the internet, but they can't be interviewed about it if they are frauds.
But what does it take to AMA? It's the same thing as the first day of any high school class: you stand up and say your name, where you are from, and what your interests are. Think about whether you are comfortable doing this, and why some people might not be able to without violating the Reddiquette.
Where do you come from?
I started by reading D.T. Suzuki, thought he was boring, but tried to find the source texts he was quoting. Wumenguan was the first text I found, "pre-internet".What's your text?
I think the only reasonable claim to authentic historically accurate Zen is to start with the books of instruction written by historical Zen Masters, books like Blue Cliff Record, Book of Serenity, and Wumenguan aka Wumen's Checkpoint aka Wumen-No-Gate's Gate.Churches can (and do) make all kinds of wild claims trying to attract followers, and it's not a basis for any authentic understanding of history.
Dharma Low Tides?
As I've said, Zen study requires YOU to TALK BACK to the tradition. Burn out tends to be putting to much in without letting anything out.Stuff I've written about what we talk about
https://www.reddit.com/zensangha/wiki/ewk/writingIn particular, an examination of the language behind the 4 Statements of Zen, which are listed in the sidebar as the "what the forum is about".
2024.05.07 21:11 Ausooj EXAMINING THE CLAIM OF THE TRUTHFULNESS OF MUHAMMAD, AS PROOF FOR ISLAM, Pt 1.
Hi yall! I recently wrote this part one of a series of articles where ill be addressing the claim that Muhammads truthfulness and charater would prove his prophethood, because i have seen this claim circulating lately in the Dawah scene.
And just to add, this is my first one especially critiquing Islam so feedback is welcomed. Thanks! :)
(Btw. HERE is the direct link)
EXAMINING THE CLAIM OF THE TRUTHFULNESS OF MUHAMMAD, AS PROOF FOR ISLAM, Pt 1.
This is one of the favorite arguments nowadays put forward by the Islamic apologists and preachers for the truthfulness of Muhammad and his Prophethood. From what I have seen, many of the advocates of this argument give it in a deceitful and fallacious form, where they want to frame it as a black and white situation. So in short terms most of the times the argument goes something like this:
But the overall character that you find about Muhammad is fairly positive and should say “truthful”, but still the problem with this is that we really don't for 100% know how much of the Islamic sources, especially the Sirahs are true. But the credibility of the Hadiths and other Islamic sources is a discussion for a different time, but to add the consensus of the critical academics is that they are highly skeptical of Hadiths.
But even if we are to grant them the sources, this argument is still a non-starter. Because it assumes many things about the conclusions that dont always follow. For example if we grant them from some reports where Muhammad seems to appear as a truthful and honest person, how does it make the case overall that? Because just because someone is truthful in some situations, it doesn't automatically mean that they are then as truthful in other circumstances and situations. And this is the main stumbling block for this argument, because the whole argument is a big fat Composition Fallacy.
So in short it assumes that just because in some cases Muhammad was truthful and honest, then it must be that he was that in all cases. But this doesn't follow at all, because with this reasoning we could say that just because Hitler acted mostly good in his life towards some people, then it must be that he was a good man overall (although he killed 6 million Jews). But this line of reasoning is just TERRIBLE, because the conclusions in most cases with this are stupidly awful.
So now that we have explained the main problems and flaws with this argument, we are gonna look at some of the popular Hadiths and reports about Muhammad that the Islamic preachers and apologists use when trying to prove his honesty and truthfulness. And examine them that do they really add to the case of Muhammad being a true prophet of God?
THE DEATH OF IBRAHIM AND THE MOON ECLIPSE:
Narrated Al-Mughira bin Shu`ba: “The sun eclipsed in the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) on the day when (his son) Ibrahim died. So the people said that the sun had eclipsed because of the death of Ibrahim. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "The sun and the moon do not eclipse because of the death or life (i.e. birth) of someone. When you see the eclipse, pray and invoke Allah.” (Bukhari 1043)
This is the should say “Fan Favorite” of the Islamic preachers because to them this narration proves without shadow of a doubt the truthfulness and trustworthiness of Muhammad, because to them just because Muhammad didn't in this scenario claim that the eclipse wasn't because of him/his sons death it means that he would not have been hungry for “status” and “fame”. Because the preachers assert that if Muhammad would have been a power and fame hungry person, of course he would have claimed the eclipse to relate to him. But this line of reasoning does not work at all, because this just comes down to the fallacy of composition that we have explained before. Because how do you know If he wasn't using some mind games when addressing these things, or if he lied in this situation to appear as truthful. And the options are endless…
So in short, we shouldnt conclude these things just out of some cherry picked Hadiths and reports of Muhammad. Rather we should look at the full picture and conclude by how we should view the character of Muhammad as whole. Because as I said, it all comes down to the fallacy of composition, and presupposing assumptions about how a person would act in different situations. And in the end, all that this proves is that he was loyal to his message in this instance (Which really doesn't prove anything about its truthulness).
HE WAS CALLED “THE MOST TRUTHFUL”
The second point that many Islamic preachers like to claim is that Muhammad was known prior to the claim of prophethood among the Quraysh and other people as being the most truthful and honest person that they could imagine, and by that they knew him by the name Al-Amin which directly translates to “The Trustworthy One” or “The Truthful One”. So how could he then be lying or deceiving if the people around him knew him to be truthful? And this is the claim that we are going to be tackling shortly.
Most of the Islamic preachers usually base their arguments on certain narrations and passages which I'm going to examine in the following section:
Narrated Ibn `Abbas: “When the Verse:-- 'And warn your tribe of near kindred.' (26.214) was revealed. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) went out, and when he had ascended As-Safa mountain, he shouted, "O Sabahah!" The people said, "Who is that?" "Then they gathered around him, whereupon he said, "Do you see? If I inform you that cavalrymen are proceeding up the side of this mountain, will you believe me?" They said, "We have never heard you telling a lie." Then he said, "I am a plain warner to you of a coming severe punishment." Abu Lahab said, "May you perish! You gathered us only for this reason? " Then Abu Lahab went away. So the "Surah:--ul--LAHAB" 'Perish the hands of Abu Lahab!' (111.1) was revealed.” (Bukhari 4971)
This is maybe one of the frequently used and claimed proofs from the Hadith corpus of Muhammad being known as trustworthy and truthful. And as i have highlighted, the main point of the claim in this Hadith is the phrase “We have never heard you telling a lie”, which to the Islamic preachers of course goes as straight proof that Muhammad must have been a truthful, because he according to certain Meccans had to quote “Never been heard telling a lie”.
Just to add, here there are certain other narrations (Mostly from the Siras that claim to have close to direct claims even from the enemies of Muhammad, are to me most likely fabricated because i don't think that any sane person would think that decades later coming sources saying that person X is not a liar are “little bit” suspicious.)
But back to the main claim, and which in lies huge problems too (As it would come as a surprise), which are for example:
The suspicious timing and place of the claimed statement, because are there any independent or objective sources to verify this exact statement by the Mekkan people? Certainly not, outside of the Hadith and Sirah literature. And that is the main problem with these claims, that they ultimately presuppose the Hadiths to be some kind of a super reliable transmission system, when in reality that claim would be farther from the truth, especially regarding these statements that highly praise Muhammad.
Then the second problem is that there really aren't any other Authentic Hadiths outside of this to claim the thing that the Mekkans would have claimed to never hear a lie from Muhammad. And this really raises the problem that, what are the chances of this being fabricated because this is a massive claim to make about someone to praise him. And to think that these come at least 100 years later after the fact, to me raise the bar of fabrication fairly low.
And of course some Muslims would now go on a rant about “How we know that it is authentic by the chain etc. etc.”, but that is a discussion for a different time. But I just wanted to highlight how suspiciously alone this Hadith is in the claim that Muhammad has never been heard to tell a lie. And by that was being called the Al-Amin.
So in short, this Hadith doesn't hold much water when we see that it is close to alone in its statements about the Mekkans testifying to never having heard Muhammad telling a lie, and that it is most surely fabricated. And also the statement about Muhammad never having been lying is put in a weird place, where it is in the middle of two descriptions of revelation, which to me makes it really suspicious.
“NOR DOES HE SPEAK FROM HIS OWN WHIMS”
Quran 53:3, “Nor does he speak of His own whims”
This is not as popular as the other two presented in above, but I have seen this to be claimed to prove that Muhammad could not have been lying or deceiving, but rather being truthful.
So in short according to certain Islamic preachers this ayat of the Quran would testify that Muhammad wasnt speaking of his own desires/for his own gains but rather speaking because it was somehow “The Truth ''. But to me this might be the stupidest one of these, because just because the person being accused of lying and then protecting himself by stating that God is saying that he isn't, really doesn't prove anything.
But I would say on the contrary that this would actually prove the opposite, because this certainly shows the fact that Muhammad was being accused of lying and then by getting supposed revelations from God to protect him, atleast me seem a little suspicious.
So in short, this one fails too because it is just the words of Muhammad claimed to be from Allah to protect him from accusations. Which just really proves the contrary like I just demonstrated.
END OF PART 1.
submitted by Ausooj to CritiqueIslam [link] [comments]
And just to add, this is my first one especially critiquing Islam so feedback is welcomed. Thanks! :)
(Btw. HERE is the direct link)
EXAMINING THE CLAIM OF THE TRUTHFULNESS OF MUHAMMAD, AS PROOF FOR ISLAM, Pt 1.
This is one of the favorite arguments nowadays put forward by the Islamic apologists and preachers for the truthfulness of Muhammad and his Prophethood. From what I have seen, many of the advocates of this argument give it in a deceitful and fallacious form, where they want to frame it as a black and white situation. So in short terms most of the times the argument goes something like this:
- Muhammad claimed to receive Revelation from God
- Muhammad was known to be truthful and didn't want to stop spreading his message even when he was persecuted and offered power, money, women etc.
CONCLUSION: Muhammad's message is true, because he was ready to be persecuted for it and even when was offered temptations he wouldn't give it up. So there for, because he wouldn't give up his message for “worldly" things and tribulations he could not have been a liar or a deceiver etc.
But the overall character that you find about Muhammad is fairly positive and should say “truthful”, but still the problem with this is that we really don't for 100% know how much of the Islamic sources, especially the Sirahs are true. But the credibility of the Hadiths and other Islamic sources is a discussion for a different time, but to add the consensus of the critical academics is that they are highly skeptical of Hadiths.
But even if we are to grant them the sources, this argument is still a non-starter. Because it assumes many things about the conclusions that dont always follow. For example if we grant them from some reports where Muhammad seems to appear as a truthful and honest person, how does it make the case overall that? Because just because someone is truthful in some situations, it doesn't automatically mean that they are then as truthful in other circumstances and situations. And this is the main stumbling block for this argument, because the whole argument is a big fat Composition Fallacy.
So in short it assumes that just because in some cases Muhammad was truthful and honest, then it must be that he was that in all cases. But this doesn't follow at all, because with this reasoning we could say that just because Hitler acted mostly good in his life towards some people, then it must be that he was a good man overall (although he killed 6 million Jews). But this line of reasoning is just TERRIBLE, because the conclusions in most cases with this are stupidly awful.
So now that we have explained the main problems and flaws with this argument, we are gonna look at some of the popular Hadiths and reports about Muhammad that the Islamic preachers and apologists use when trying to prove his honesty and truthfulness. And examine them that do they really add to the case of Muhammad being a true prophet of God?
THE DEATH OF IBRAHIM AND THE MOON ECLIPSE:
Narrated Al-Mughira bin Shu`ba: “The sun eclipsed in the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) on the day when (his son) Ibrahim died. So the people said that the sun had eclipsed because of the death of Ibrahim. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "The sun and the moon do not eclipse because of the death or life (i.e. birth) of someone. When you see the eclipse, pray and invoke Allah.” (Bukhari 1043)
This is the should say “Fan Favorite” of the Islamic preachers because to them this narration proves without shadow of a doubt the truthfulness and trustworthiness of Muhammad, because to them just because Muhammad didn't in this scenario claim that the eclipse wasn't because of him/his sons death it means that he would not have been hungry for “status” and “fame”. Because the preachers assert that if Muhammad would have been a power and fame hungry person, of course he would have claimed the eclipse to relate to him. But this line of reasoning does not work at all, because this just comes down to the fallacy of composition that we have explained before. Because how do you know If he wasn't using some mind games when addressing these things, or if he lied in this situation to appear as truthful. And the options are endless…
So in short, we shouldnt conclude these things just out of some cherry picked Hadiths and reports of Muhammad. Rather we should look at the full picture and conclude by how we should view the character of Muhammad as whole. Because as I said, it all comes down to the fallacy of composition, and presupposing assumptions about how a person would act in different situations. And in the end, all that this proves is that he was loyal to his message in this instance (Which really doesn't prove anything about its truthulness).
HE WAS CALLED “THE MOST TRUTHFUL”
The second point that many Islamic preachers like to claim is that Muhammad was known prior to the claim of prophethood among the Quraysh and other people as being the most truthful and honest person that they could imagine, and by that they knew him by the name Al-Amin which directly translates to “The Trustworthy One” or “The Truthful One”. So how could he then be lying or deceiving if the people around him knew him to be truthful? And this is the claim that we are going to be tackling shortly.
Most of the Islamic preachers usually base their arguments on certain narrations and passages which I'm going to examine in the following section:
Narrated Ibn `Abbas: “When the Verse:-- 'And warn your tribe of near kindred.' (26.214) was revealed. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) went out, and when he had ascended As-Safa mountain, he shouted, "O Sabahah!" The people said, "Who is that?" "Then they gathered around him, whereupon he said, "Do you see? If I inform you that cavalrymen are proceeding up the side of this mountain, will you believe me?" They said, "We have never heard you telling a lie." Then he said, "I am a plain warner to you of a coming severe punishment." Abu Lahab said, "May you perish! You gathered us only for this reason? " Then Abu Lahab went away. So the "Surah:--ul--LAHAB" 'Perish the hands of Abu Lahab!' (111.1) was revealed.” (Bukhari 4971)
This is maybe one of the frequently used and claimed proofs from the Hadith corpus of Muhammad being known as trustworthy and truthful. And as i have highlighted, the main point of the claim in this Hadith is the phrase “We have never heard you telling a lie”, which to the Islamic preachers of course goes as straight proof that Muhammad must have been a truthful, because he according to certain Meccans had to quote “Never been heard telling a lie”.
Just to add, here there are certain other narrations (Mostly from the Siras that claim to have close to direct claims even from the enemies of Muhammad, are to me most likely fabricated because i don't think that any sane person would think that decades later coming sources saying that person X is not a liar are “little bit” suspicious.)
But back to the main claim, and which in lies huge problems too (As it would come as a surprise), which are for example:
The suspicious timing and place of the claimed statement, because are there any independent or objective sources to verify this exact statement by the Mekkan people? Certainly not, outside of the Hadith and Sirah literature. And that is the main problem with these claims, that they ultimately presuppose the Hadiths to be some kind of a super reliable transmission system, when in reality that claim would be farther from the truth, especially regarding these statements that highly praise Muhammad.
Then the second problem is that there really aren't any other Authentic Hadiths outside of this to claim the thing that the Mekkans would have claimed to never hear a lie from Muhammad. And this really raises the problem that, what are the chances of this being fabricated because this is a massive claim to make about someone to praise him. And to think that these come at least 100 years later after the fact, to me raise the bar of fabrication fairly low.
And of course some Muslims would now go on a rant about “How we know that it is authentic by the chain etc. etc.”, but that is a discussion for a different time. But I just wanted to highlight how suspiciously alone this Hadith is in the claim that Muhammad has never been heard to tell a lie. And by that was being called the Al-Amin.
So in short, this Hadith doesn't hold much water when we see that it is close to alone in its statements about the Mekkans testifying to never having heard Muhammad telling a lie, and that it is most surely fabricated. And also the statement about Muhammad never having been lying is put in a weird place, where it is in the middle of two descriptions of revelation, which to me makes it really suspicious.
“NOR DOES HE SPEAK FROM HIS OWN WHIMS”
Quran 53:3, “Nor does he speak of His own whims”
This is not as popular as the other two presented in above, but I have seen this to be claimed to prove that Muhammad could not have been lying or deceiving, but rather being truthful.
So in short according to certain Islamic preachers this ayat of the Quran would testify that Muhammad wasnt speaking of his own desires/for his own gains but rather speaking because it was somehow “The Truth ''. But to me this might be the stupidest one of these, because just because the person being accused of lying and then protecting himself by stating that God is saying that he isn't, really doesn't prove anything.
But I would say on the contrary that this would actually prove the opposite, because this certainly shows the fact that Muhammad was being accused of lying and then by getting supposed revelations from God to protect him, atleast me seem a little suspicious.
So in short, this one fails too because it is just the words of Muhammad claimed to be from Allah to protect him from accusations. Which just really proves the contrary like I just demonstrated.
END OF PART 1.