What is the definitions of each point of the gangster diciple star

To note, this is a continuation of the sagas I wrote that took place after the Cell Saga. The two sagas were written with inspiration taken from MCU Peter Parker's arcs in Far from Home and No Way Home. The goal was to develop Son Gohan into a proper lead for the show. If you'd like to check them out, here are the links!
Bojack (Far From Home) Saga: https://www.reddit.com/fixingmovies/s/sK5zOnJ0oU
Broly (No Way Home) Saga: https://www.reddit.com/fixingmovies/s/R3sGOqdbIv
There are many things I find wrong in the Buu saga:

1. Goku coming back: This derails the narrative tremendously as he snatches back the torch from Gohan. He's going to play a role, but he will stay dead.
2. Gohan's writing: In canon, we ended up with a rusty, goofy, badly written character who lost all the development from the previous sagas. He became a useless disappointment and did not uphold his role as a protector of the earth. This won't go anywhere near that direction.
3. SSJ3 and fusions: These elements were unnecessary as they did nothing to solve the plot and only provided fluff. This can be introduced in Super, but that's another story.
4. Goten and Trunks SSJ: I wasn't a fan of how they easily transformed, treating it as an easy power-up. Here, it will be earned.

What I want to do here is combine the Buu saga with Fusion Reborn. For that movie, there are tons of elements at play that can be used to make the grand finale of Dragon Ball Z, more grand. The goal here is to increase the stakes, trim all the unnecessary fat, give everyone a chance to shine, and keep the main focus on Gohan. I also want to replace Buu with Janemba, as I find him much more threatening due to his unique abilities which would be perfect to challenge Gohan. It's also here that we avoid the rinse-and-repeat problem that came with Buu and his many forms.

Without further ado, here is the...... Janemba Saga!

Seven years have passed since the climactic battle against Broly. Gohan, now a young adult, has diligently pursued a delicate balance between his studies and training. During this time, he has honed his Super Saiyan 2 form and significantly elevated his combat skills. However, he deliberately restrains his power, refusing to succumb to the depths of his inner rage. Gohan believes that his technical prowess alone will suffice, opting to suppress the primal fury within him. Despite his reservations, Gohan attends a prestigious private school on an academic scholarship, alongside his steadfast companion Videl and their circle of friends. Gohan has embraced the responsibility of preserving peace on Earth as a valiant hero, adopting the mantle of Saiyaman. His suit has undergone a sleek redesign, shedding the theatrical poses in favor of a more streamlined appearance. Functioning as a dynamic duo reminiscent of Superman and Batman, Gohan and Videl tackle the city's crime wave together. Videl, having mastered her ki abilities under the tutelage of Piccolo, has grown stronger over the years. Glimpses of their everyday lives reveal the struggles of Gohan as he endeavors to balance the demands of school, training, and personal relationships. Amidst the challenges, he harbors a subtle resentment towards his duty, as it often encroaches upon his cherished personal time. Nevertheless, Gohan persists, fueled by his unwavering determination to live up to his father's legacy.
However, the tranquil facade is shattered when a harrowing turn of events unfolds. The narrative transitions to an otherworldly realm, distinctly separate from Earth. A mysterious figure cloaked in darkness materializes, none other than the malevolent wizard Babidi. Harnessing the unholy power of dark magic, Babidi establishes a sinister connection with his loyal minion Dabura, the King of the Demon Realm. United in their nefarious purpose, they orchestrate an audacious invasion of Otherworld, intent on freeing the formidable demon Janemba. Ages ago, Janemba had been sealed away in this celestial realm by the Supreme Kais. Babidi's malevolent ambition revolves around shrouding the universe in eternal darkness. To achieve this nightmarish vision, he plans to infect the denizens of Earth using the insidious Majin spell, thereby expanding his dominion across countless planets.
In the midst of this burgeoning chaos, Gohan, disguised as Saiyaman, finds himself investigating a peculiar incident involving the possession of one of his dearest friends. Videl, resolute and fearless, engages in a fierce battle against the malevolent puppeteer controlling Sharpner. With unwavering confidence, she urges Gohan to let her confront the threat alone. Sharpner, his strength unnaturally augmented, puts up a formidable resistance, but Videl's experience enables her to subdue him without resorting to fatal measures. As Sharpner awakens from his trance, Gohan seeks answers regarding the enigmatic force that had seized control of his friend. Sharpner reveals that a voice called Babidi had whispered malevolent commands into his mind. Armed with this critical information, Gohan summons Vegeta and Piccolo to join him in unraveling the unfolding crisis, embarking on a journey towards the epicenter of the ominous power emanating from a series of potent and wicked ki signatures, ultimately leading them to Babidi and Dabura.
Meanwhile, Earth becomes a battleground, besieged by an onslaught of resurrected zombies, soldiers, and former villains who once terrorized its populace. Though the trio finds themselves torn between aiding their beleaguered planet and confronting the imminent threat directly before them, they know their immediate priority lies in thwarting Babidi's scheme. Distracting them with his grandiose monologue, Babidi probes their minds, seeking susceptible individuals to manipulate. Initially targeting Vegeta, Babidi redirects his attention toward Piccolo, sensing his inherent duality as a being born of both good and evil. With a combination of Babidi's insidious spell and the lingering malevolence of Piccolo Daimao, the Namekian warrior struggles to resist the overwhelming influence. His powers surge exponentially beyond their previous limitations, clouding his judgment and driving him to confront his former student, Gohan. Amidst the shock of this unforeseen twist, Gohan assumes the responsibility of awakening Piccolo from his trance-like state, determined to restore his mentor's clarity. As the battle rages on, they sense a tremor that reverberates throughout the planet, an unmistakable ki signature brimming with icy coldness, signifying the presence of a singular entity—Janemba.
Bracing himself for the impending clash with this malevolent force, Gohan prepares to face Janemba head-on, while Piccolo embarks on a personal mission to neutralize Babidi. Meanwhile, Vegeta remains locked in a fierce struggle against Dabura, the Prince of Saiyans confronting the King of the Demon Realm. The confrontation unfolds with brutal intensity, and Vegeta finds himself teetering on the edge of defeat. Sensing his adversary's advantage, Dabura unleashes a legion of demons to tip the scales further in his favor. Pushed to his limits, Vegeta fights valiantly, but the odds appear insurmountable. Dabura, consumed by arrogance, revels in his imminent triumph, announcing his intention to unleash the full might of the demon horde upon Earth. Faced with the dire consequences of such a cataclysm, Vegeta musters every ounce of desperation within him. In a moment of self-sacrifice, he unleashes a devastating attack upon Dabura and his minions. The resulting explosion weakens Babidi's forces, repels the encroaching Demon Realm, and safeguards their dimension from untold chaos and devastation.
(Note: I wanted to keep Vegeta's sacrifice but make it matter and count. In canon, it didn't stop Buu, and he sent himself into cold oblivion on a lie. Here, he makes a difference in the long run and has a definitive redemptive moment. )
Startled by the sudden disappearance of Vegeta's powerful ki, Trunks defies the protests of his comrades on the Lookout and rushes towards the chaotic battleground. His heart pounds with trepidation as he races through the smoke-filled air, only to be confronted with the lifeless body of his father lying motionless on the ground. Overwhelmed by a torrent of despair and seething rage, Trunks' trembling hands reach out to shake his father awake, his desperate pleas echoing through the desolate landscape. But his efforts prove futile, and a profound sense of loss engulfs him.
In the midst of this heart-wrenching moment, a surge of raw energy courses through Trunks' veins, igniting a transformation that surpasses the boundaries of his mortal self. Radiating an aura of vibrant golden light, Trunks ascends to the legendary state of the Super Saiyan. His eyes ablaze with determination and fury, he is now ready to face the battle that lies ahead.The scene shifts, revealing the remaining Z-Fighters locked in a perilous struggle against hordes of relentless zombies. Fatigue weighs heavily upon their weary bodies as they fend off the relentless onslaught. Suddenly, a streak of intense power streaks across the sky, and Trunks descends before his comrades, newly transformed and brimming with indomitable strength. A burst of energy erupts from his fingertips, shattering a ki blast launched by one of the zombies, diverting it harmlessly away. In the eyes of his adversaries, astonishment mingles with mockery as they behold the sight of a mere child standing before them.Unfazed by their taunting laughter, Trunks addresses his comrades with unwavering resolve. He declares that he will shoulder the burden of the battle, vowing that not a single life will be lost on this day. With unparalleled speed and precision, he charges towards the encroaching horde, obliterating each zombie with astonishing ease. Their forces crumble beneath the might of his wrath, and the battlefield is transformed into a graveyard of defeated foes.As the last of the zombies falls, Trunks relinquishes his Super Saiyan form, his energy spent and body drained. Collapsing to the ground, he succumbs to exhaustion, his breathing ragged and labored. In this moment of vulnerability, Yamcha, recognizing the young warrior's valor, rushes to his side and gently lifts him from the battlefield, cradling his battered form with utmost care.
(Note: Kid Trunks' transformation is a direct reference to when Future Trunks found Gohan dead after the battle with the androids, and then he transformed. )
While this tumultuous event unfolded, the responsibility of safeguarding the Lookout fell upon the young shoulders of Goten. As time passed, a sudden intrusion disrupted the tranquility of the platform, as a malevolent henchman, infused with the dark power of King Cold, materialized before him. Though momentarily shaken, Goten summoned his courage and engaged in a valiant struggle against his formidable adversary.Initially, it appeared that Goten held his ground admirably, skillfully countering the attacks launched by the nefarious duo of Salza and Dore. However, their sinister coordination gradually began to overpower the young warrior. In a devastating display of force, Salza executed a malicious kick that sent Goten hurtling towards the precipice of the Lookout, teetering on the brink of unconsciousness.
Witnessing her son's battered and vulnerable state, Chi-Chi, consumed by a mixture of horror and fury, lunged at Salza in a desperate attempt to defend her child. Yet, her efforts proved futile as Salza callously seized her by the throat, mercilessly constricting the life from her. From his weakened position, Goten, wide-eyed and mouth agape, struggled to remain conscious, his mind besieged by the conflicting emotions of impending death and the weight of disappointment.
In that critical moment, he closed his eyes, his teeth sinking into his lip until blood stained his mouth. His trembling hands clenched into tight fists. And then, something within him snapped, unleashing a primal force that lay dormant within.Goten vanished, replaced by an embodiment of unbridled rage. Transformed into a Super Saiyan, his furious aura radiated with an intensity that defied comprehension. With a surge of unrestrained power, he propelled himself towards Salza, obliterating his malevolent foe with a devastating blast that eradicated him from existence. Undeterred by the remaining henchmen who sought to avenge their fallen comrade, Goten engaged them with a newfound ferocity.In a breathtaking display of combat prowess, it took mere moments for Goten to dispatch his adversaries, consigning them to the depths of the afterlife. Unaware of his mother's watchful gaze, Chi-Chi bore witness to the astonishing transformation of her once-innocent son, her heart filled with awe at the unfathomable power he now wielded.
(Note: This is a reference to when Superman had attacked Zod for attacking Martha in Man of Steel. With this, Goten is able to break out of his shell and experience some development. I also did not want Chi-Chi to die, but to have it be close. This way, she can witness firsthand her son fighting to avenge her and realizing that his saiyan blood kicked in to save them all, which would lead to some development towards her accepting that they have the natural power to fight, but also protect. )
Simultaneously, amidst the chaos, Piccolo found himself embroiled in a fierce battle of magic. His objective was to shatter the impenetrable barrier erected by his adversary, Babidi, to halt the relentless proliferation of Majin-infused beings. The odds were stacked against him, but with unwavering determination, Piccolo summoned the strength to rupture the barrier, ultimately delivering a fatal blow to Babidi. In doing so, he succeeded in halting the insidious spread of the Majin curse.Meanwhile, Gohan, driven by an overwhelming surge of power in his Super Saiyan 2 form, charged headlong at the formidable Fat Janemba, intent on swiftly ending the confrontation. Displaying remarkable valor, Gohan engaged his adversary with all his might, momentarily gaining the upper hand in fleeting bursts of fury. However, Janemba's energy continued to surge unabated, gradually overpowering Gohan and relegating him to a defensive stance.With the battle reaching its climax, Janemba unleashed a devastating onslaught aimed at obliterating the planet. In a desperate bid to protect all that he held dear, Gohan fearlessly interposed himself between Janemba's lethal assault and the world, extending his arms wide as he summoned the last vestiges of his ki to create a resolute energy shield. The technique demanded one final act of defiance, compelling Gohan to redirect the unleashed energy back towards Janemba, propelling the malevolent entity backward and teetering on the precipice of annihilation. Yet, the maneuver exacted a heavy toll on Gohan, leaving him grievously injured and drained of consciousness, hurtling through the sky and crashing deep into the untamed wilderness.
(Note: This maneuver is a mix of what Gohan did against Broly in Movie 10, and what Future Gohan did in his last battle against the androids.)
Subsequently, Supreme Kai, recognizing the dire condition of the young warrior, transported Gohan to the realm of the Kais. As Gohan gradually regained consciousness, he found himself surrounded by the presence of Supreme Kai, Kibito, and his father, Son Goku. Unbeknownst to Gohan, while the realms beyond had been engulfed in pandemonium, Goku had valiantly sought to subdue numerous formidable adversaries, most notably Broly. Upon learning of Gohan's presence on that distant planet, Goku implored for the opportunity to visit his son, a request that was granted amidst the bittersweet reunion.During their heartfelt meeting, they shared the weight of overseeing the turmoil ravaging Earth, realizing that Janemba still lingered, amassing the remnants of malevolent ki left unvanquished. Panic washed over Gohan as he urgently expressed his need to return to Earth, but his pleas were met with cautionary words from his loved ones. They acknowledged his unpreparedness to face Janemba anew, warning of the potential consequences should he engage the foe prematurely. Supreme Kai disclosed his true intention in bringing Gohan to this realm—to unlock the dormant power lying dormant within him. However, the process demanded a profound reconciliation of Gohan's dual nature as both human and Saiyan. To initiate this transformative ritual, Gohan would be immersed in a meditative trance within the sacred confines of a cascading waterfall, which would serve as a mirror reflecting his true self. Only then would he embark upon the arduous journey of unlocking his latent potential, fully aware that failure could result in dire consequences, even death.
Nervously, Gohan steeled himself for the imminent trial, drawing strength from the unwavering support of his father. With resolute determination, he approached the cascading waterfall, where Supreme Kai initiated the trance, enveloping Gohan in an ethereal aura of introspection.As the ritual commenced, Gohan's gaze fixated grimly upon vivid recollections of his past battles, struggling to reconcile the moments when he had succumbed to his own wrath. Before long, a projection materialized, representing his suppressed Saiyan essence—a separate entity demanding to be acknowledged. A tumultuous clash ensued between the two facets of Gohan's being, with the young warrior faltering in his attempts to gain the upper hand, for each surge of anger only fueled his other self. Finally, a profound realization washed over Gohan, piercing through the haze of conflict. He ceased resisting and, instead, extended a hand of acceptance and understanding to his Saiyan counterpart, embracing the essence of his true nature. In that transformative instant, the boundaries dissolved, merging into a harmonious unity. Gohan's eyes fluttered open as he awakened from the trance, reborn in his newfound Ultimate Form, his essence finally whole and indomitable.
(Note: Yes, this is a direct reference to Naruto obtaining true mastery of his nine tails form in Shippuden. I did not like Gohan's canon mystic ritual because it did not feel earned. He just sat around for a long time doing nothing and gained nothing from it. I wanted to fix that. So here, he went through a more direct ritual at the risk of death to be able to unlock his true abilities. )
In the midst of these events, Trunks and Goten find themselves under the tutelage of Piccolo within the formidable Hyperbolic Time Chamber. News reaches Piccolo that Gohan is undergoing a transformative process to unlock his latent potential, but the looming return of Janemba threatens to disrupt their plans. Exiting the chamber, Trunks and Goten emerge stronger than ever, having mastered their Super Saiyan forms and honed their teamwork to near perfection, compensating for their inherent power limitations.As Janemba crosses paths with them, the clash erupts in a spectacular display of martial prowess. Individually, they stand little chance against the overwhelming might of Janemba, but when united, a different narrative unfolds. Their combined efforts aim to sustain the battle long enough, providing Gohan with the precious time he needs to complete his ritual. Piccolo assumes leadership, valiantly holding his ground, although it becomes increasingly evident that Janemba possesses a distinct advantage. Piccolo strategically diverts Janemba's attention, creating openings for Goten and Trunks to launch coordinated assaults that vex their adversary, even if their impact is minimal. Nonetheless, every second counts.
In a fateful turn of events, Janemba unleashes an assault that overwhelms Piccolo, incapacitating him and leaving only Goten and Trunks to face the malevolent entity. Swift as a phantom, Janemba materializes in front of Trunks, delivering a devastating blow to his abdomen, leaving Goten as the lone defender. Standing tall, Goten defiantly assumes a battle stance, mustering his courage. However, before Janemba can unleash a devastating attack upon him, an unknown figure delivers a powerful kick to Janemba's head, hurtling him towards the distant mountains.
The camera pans, revealing the figure to be none other than Gohan, resplendent in his newfound form.
(Note: This entrance directly mirrors that of Future Gohan when he was about to begin his final battle against the Androids!)
A wave of elation washes over Goten as he beholds the return of his beloved elder brother, while Trunks and Piccolo visibly exhale with relief. Gohan and Piccolo exchange a brief but meaningful exchange, Gohan acknowledging his newfound strength while Piccolo recognizes that Gohan has ascended to an entirely different echelon. Janemba regains his footing, reemerging before them, demanding their attention and focus. Gohan asserts that he will confront Janemba directly, urging the others to evacuate. Though reluctant, Piccolo and the young warriors comply, dispersing to various parts of the world to address the chaos that plagues their surroundings.
With an air of fury, Janemba charges at Gohan, his fist extended menacingly. Yet Gohan intercepts the attack, seizing Janemba's fist in a vice-like grip, and in a flash of teleportation, they are transported to the dreaded realm of H.F.I.L. (Home For Infinite Losers).
(Note: I have Gohan teleport Janemba because at least this way their battle will not damage Earth. Also we will assume Gohan has figured out some sort of Instant Transmission movement like Goku.)
The eyes of Earth's denizens, the Kais, and the denizens of the Otherworld are fixated on this pivotal moment, the culmination of a battle that will determine the fate of the universe. And so, the clash commences, a cataclysmic struggle that echoes through the very fabric of existence.
In a breathtaking display of power, Gohan initially dominates the battle, effortlessly overpowering Janemba with his newfound might. However, the tables turn when Janemba unveils unexpected abilities: space-time manipulation and a formidable sword. Gohan is caught off guard, unsure of how to counter such unorthodox tactics. Desperation and frustration consume him, causing his control over his own power to slip away.Amidst the chaos, Gohan experiences a moment of revelation, a surge of understanding regarding his opponent's abilities. He realizes that in order to anticipate Janemba's next move, he must heighten his senses by channeling his ki, allowing for precise timing and swift reactions. With this newfound clarity, Gohan regains his composure, closing his eyes and taking a deep breath. Seizing an opportunity, Janemba materializes before him, poised to strike with his sword. Yet, in a stunning display of strength, Gohan catches the blade with both hands, shattering it into pieces.
The tide of the battle begins to shift, albeit slightly, in Gohan's favor. Frustrated and bewildered, Janemba exclaims, "Just what...are you?!" Gohan responds with unwavering resolve, proclaiming, "I am the hope of the universe. I am the answer to all living things that cry out for peace. I am the protector of the innocent. I am the light in the darkness. I am truth. Ally to good! Nightmare to you!"
(Note: I'm taking Goku's dubbed speech against Frieza and repurposing it for Gohan. As he's inherently more the justice-driven hero archetype rather than the fighting maniac that is Goku, it makes more sense. We'll just assume Goku gave Frieza the manga version of his speech. This is also the most pivotal moment of Gohan's journey as he comes to terms with being a protector. Throughout the show, he's been struggling between his desire to be a scholar and his responsibility to be a hero. That dubbed speech is exactly the moment that Gohan's arc comes full circle. Here, he finally embraces what he was always meant to be..... the hero.)
With renewed determination, Gohan launches various assaults in a bid to defeat his formidable adversary. However, his attacks fail to inflict lasting damage, and Gohan himself begins to exhaust his ki. It is then that he realizes the true nature of Janemba's existence—he is an embodiment of pure evil ki, unlike any opponent Gohan has faced before. A desperate plan takes shape in Gohan's mind. Mentally reaching out to his friends and even Videl, he calls upon them to gather their ki, reminiscent of the Spirit Bomb technique. Initially, only the Z-Fighters respond, but their combined energy proves insufficient.As Gohan valiantly defends against Janemba's onslaught, he mentally pleads with the people of Earth to lend their aid. Uncertainty and doubt cast a shadow over the crowd until Hercule steps forward, berating them for refusing to support the man who once saved them during the Cell Games. Revealing the truth of Gohan's identity as the Delivery Boy turned hero, the tide of public opinion shifts. People extend their hands, offering their energy to their savior. Shocked by the sudden turn of events, Gohan is relieved by the surge of ki coursing through him, providing a momentary opening to kick Janemba away. The collective assistance grants Gohan a substantial reservoir of energy, which he then summons forth, infusing it with the very essence of his soul—a daring and perilous maneuver.
Driven to his breaking point, a furious Janemba ascends into the sky, conjuring a colossal sphere of malevolent ki capable of obliterating the entire universe. Gohan remains calm, his gaze fixed upon the impending cataclysm. With unwavering resolve, he declares, "This is the end for you, Janemba." Closing his eyes, Gohan raises his left hand above his head, conjuring a radiant sphere of rainbow light. Seizing the opportunity, Janemba hurls his devastating attack towards Gohan. Sensing the imminent danger, Gohan's eyes snap open as he crushes the ball of energy in his palm. Swiftly pivoting, he hurls the fragmented energy towards the oncoming attack, effortlessly piercing through it, and hurtling towards Janemba, finally eradicating the universe's peril once and for all.
(Note: This is the same technique as Kid Buu's Planet Burst move, the one that destroyed Earth. I also repurposed Gogeta's stardust breaker technique for Gohan as I feel it makes sense for him to have it. It also makes him stand out from Goku even more in this case.)
As the dust settles, Gohan maintains his energy long enough to witness Janemba's demise. A triumphant smirk graces his face as he remarks, "Heh, looks like I finally did it." Exhausted, he collapses to the ground, almost completely drained. The onlookers erupt into joyous cheers, celebrating Gohan's hard-fought victory. Supreme Kai teleports Gohan from the depths of H.F.I.L back to Earth, specifically to the Lookout, where his family and friends eagerly await his return. In a heartwarming scene, Gohan is enveloped in embraces and expressions of relief. It is here, amidst the warmth of their loved ones, that Gohan and Videl share their first kiss—a tender moment of connection and celebration.Meanwhile, the Dragon Balls work their magic, rectifying the chaos caused by Babidi's dark influence. The majority of those who perished are revived, yet there are exceptions, including Vegeta. Accepting his fate and determined to atone for his past deeds, Vegeta expresses his desire to continue growing stronger in the afterlife, entrusting the protection of his family to his son. Tearfully, Trunks vows to make his father proud, with Goten stepping forward to support his friend in this emotional moment. Fond farewells are exchanged as everyone prepares to return to their respective homes.
Gohan and Goten engage in a heartfelt conversation, their bond as brothers strengthening. However, their exchange is interrupted by Chi-Chi, who unexpectedly interrupts their conversation. To their astonishment, she expresses pride in their valiant efforts to safeguard the world, finally relenting and granting them permission to train and protect. The three embrace, their family united and resolute.In a different realm, Vegeta stands before King Yemma, awaiting judgment. To his surprise, he is granted an Otherworldly body, a result of Goku's recommendation and Vegeta's ultimate sacrifice that tipped the scales of justice. With this second chance, Vegeta is granted the opportunity to train ceaselessly and, more importantly, to settle his unfinished business with Goku. The final scene between Goku and Vegeta unfolds, their fists colliding in a charged confrontation, their image freezing .( mirroring the intensity of Rocky and Apollo in Rocky III, leaving their ultimate showdown to the imagination.)
A decade passes, marked by a time skip. Tien and Krillin have established their own martial arts schools, dedicated to passing on their unique styles to the next generation. Goten and Trunks, under the tutelage of Piccolo, diligently train to harness their extraordinary powers. Gohan, now a respected scholar, has married Videl, and together they have a daughter. At home, Videl imparts the basics of combat to their daughter, Pan. Gohan, having just finished delivering a lecture on energy at the university, senses a disturbance reverberating across the planet. Instinctively, he rushes to the rooftop, pressing a button on his wrist. In an instant, he transforms into his iconic Saiyaman costume, soaring into the horizon with a mischievous grin. He breaks through the fourth wall, symbolizing his unwavering resolve to protect and inspire.
The screen fades to black.
The End.
There we have it! My final wrap-up of the MCU Peter ParkeGohan development journey! Honestly, I did have thoughts of just going straight into revising the Buu arc, but I felt there was more to be done before that. Gohan needed to go through the development I gave him in my two written arcs as there were lessons there that shaped him.
I also felt that a trained Gohan, who is naturally intellectual, would be a perfect antagonist in Janemba. He had to learn to outsmart him, and not just have it be a straight-up slugfest.
What do you guys think? Share your thoughts below!
u/fatherandyriley
u/dgenerationmc

Kratom exacerbated autoimmune symptoms and may have started colitis
I started kratom 8 months ago to relieve extreme fatigue. I was diagnosed with adhd but I think I struggle more with CPTSD. I was also diagnosed lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. At first kratom was the key, and it was magical. I knew how to space my servings out so that I could feel it in small amounts each day. I thought I was good as long as I didn’t have more than 6 grams a day. I mixed it in organic orange juice. Well, orange juice is super acidic anyways and that itself can destroy your gut health. I didn’t know that. I recently started discovering what a gut health diet truly meant.
I started to notice kratom causing constipation. I got worried and stopped immediately. I thought it would be hard to quit but I’m an ex alcoholic. So if I can drop alcohol, I can drop anything now. I was just desperate and searching for something that was going to help my motivation for working out and getting household chores done.
I was constipated for nearly 3 months. It took an ER visit to diagnose colitis. I tried all the laxatives available prior to that and none of them worked. The ER told me to go on a clear fluid fast. So broth and jello…. Like when I had my gallbladder removed. I had already fasted for 2 days by that point because I was so miserable and terrified to consume anything.
Here’s a list of foods that made me regular again but it truly took 3 weeks of regular consumption for things to finally take effect:
You must consume water first thing in the morning, as soon as you wake up. 8 oz.
Next, research and find a quality brand bovine colostrum. Drink 2 scoops of that to 8oz of water and add Celtic sea salt for additional 82 minerals. Wait 30 minutes.
Introduce 4 oz of kombucha. Not the whole 16 oz bottle. That gave me diarrhea. But kombucha has so many conflicting things out there research wise… I choose to drink it anyways. It’s suppose to be 4oz before each meal. Anyways!! Wait another 30 minutes.
ORGANIC GRASS FED BONE BROTH. Terrible to me, but so so good for your gut. 19 grams of protein too. So you don’t feel starved. Suppose to heal gut if you drink 2 cups in the morning every day for 7-14 days.
I bought some tabouli salad from Publix. It’s a super food. It’s actually spelled tabbouleh. You can make your own. That’s even better. But I’m lazy. I ate it with some crunchmaster crackers even though I read I wasn’t suppose to eat seeds or nuts.
Then I chopped 1 bell pepper, 1 onion, grated 3 zucchini, grated 1 large carrot, and mixed it with 4 eggs. I added garlic and onion powder, salt and pepper like I always do. Lay on sheet pan, 375 for 20 minutes. It’s a crust less quiche I guess you’d call that.
I also had organic 100% pure cranberry juice, no sugar added. Super bitter. Super benefits. Yikes! It sucks but I’m assuming I’ll get used to it. And KEFIR, I drink strawberry kefir right after.
I have a major sweet tooth!! And I just over ate cantaloupe. That wasn’t good enough, so I also ate a smashed banana with organic cinnamon powder and a little drizzle of LOCAL honey. Papaya is also another fruit you can have.
Everything else was a no for me!! I’m gonna miss dairy and gluten. Can’t even eat beans or lentils with colitis. You can have very bland, plain chicken, turkey, or salmon. No spices. No refined sugar. No processed foods. No eating out. No carbonated drinks otherwise. No caffeine as in coffee or tea.
This was bound to happen to me anyways because I have autoimmune issues but kratom definitely progressed it faster. Happy healing! Cheers! 🤦🏻‍♀️💩 and may the force be with you.

Okay, the new system isn't even out yet, but I already made my verdict. As you can tell from the title, I don't have much nice stuff to say about it.
1. Let's start with the fact that you can only have four safes.
That's... okay, cool, but...
2. You can only open one of them at a time(?).
Yes, that's trash, but it's tolerable, but...
3. Not only do you have to open them manually every time, but you also cannot have more than four safes. Any additional safe you get while your slots are full simply won't count.
Damn, it just keeps getting worse. But wait, the despair isn't over yet—there's more! In fact;
4. You can't discard the boxes you have(?), either. So, if you have only 3-hour bunny safes, you absolutely must open them first before getting anything else like a better one.
And to rub salt in the wound for that matter, the boxes have levels. Levels that you acquire through upgrading, apparently(?). The higher the level of the box, the better the rewards, right? Yes, correct! That's great, for sure! What could I possibly say against that, other than... the fact that if you have a level 2+ box, you absolutely must open it if you still want to keep getting level 9+ boxes in the future. So, that could take many hours, and you will get a smaller reward. Why? Because you cannot discard it, and you must live with the lower-level boxes. Now, I don't know if you have to open low level ones only once, or if the levels you receive are RNG. Kindly and hopefully it isn't RNG, so that you always get's the highest levels, without having to wait the same time for potentially 50% of the rewards you could get.
5. The safes feel "unbalanced".
Why do I say that? Well, on one side, we have the "normal" safes, which take hours to open, correct? And on the other side, we have the practice bunny safe, arguably the best one by a long shot. Why? Because this safe can be opened instantly. For free. In fact, if there were a way to only get this safe, I would definitely accept that.
If you could only get practice bunny safes, in three hours of actively playing the game, you would get way more than what the normal 3-hour safe offers in rewards, which is insane to me, even though the practice safe gives less. You would also actively play the game which is nice for literally everyone in the current state of the game.
6. But wait, there's more! So, listen, here in the patch notes, the developers said, and I quote:

"There are three main goals of this update. Firstly, to create a means for growth through gameplay, thus providing motivation to keep playing."

Yeah, see that above? It's nonsense and doesn't reflect what will actually happen "completely". So, look, I have four safes currently, each taking three hours or more to open, correct? So... I can't win any more safes, right? So... why would I keep playing at some point, may I kindly ask you? I mean, in such a situation, why wouldn't I just play once every 3/8 hours instead? Also, will everybody keep coming back every 3/8 hours to get one more safe and then close the game every time? How long will it take to max out? I honestly believe that by then, any hype you might feel about the game in the context of getting strong would have already drowned out.
7. No way to skip timer besides paying gems(?).
What’s even weirder is that there isn't even a mechanic to skip five minutes or more of the safe opening if I genuinely... play the game. Like, really, I can't do anything but wait? Dude, most matches in this game are against bots, and I feel like this may have increased the odds slightly. Before, I would play many matches because I wanted to play and nothing else, and now I will likely only play once every 3/8 hours, and I feel like many people will do the same. Doesn't that mean there will be more bots and fewer matches overall? I honestly don't know. I just feel like the game's player base isn't big enough for such a mechanic.
Anyway, I'm not a "professional" on mobile games industry, so I have no idea how common this is. At best I have read that Clash Royale has it too, so, who knows? I don't think it will work here but we must wait and see, I suppose...
That all said, If anybody has any way to cheat or skip waiting times, or only get practice bunny safes while deleting the rest that you don't want, I would really like to hear it below in the comments! Please, do share your methods! 👍

I know this is an often-discussed topic here but I would love to hear any advice or experiences from my fellow GD mamas - this sub has been really helpful for me and I’m hearing different opinions from different doctors in my practice.
For starters, I love my OB practice, but they do follow the practice of rotating you through the different doctors within the practice for every appointment throughout pregnancy so you’re familiar with each before going into labor. Due to this, I’ve gotten different opinions from the different doctors. I was diagnosed with GD at 28 weeks and have been diet controlled the entire time (I’m 38+4 today). I would say my numbers have been 97% within range, with very few spikes. However, in the last three days I’ve had one spike per day (supposed to be under 120 after 2 hours, all have been below 130 but still a slight spike).
I have been told different things since my dx — 1) since I’m well diet-controlled, I could conceivably go up to 41 weeks and spontaneously go into labor without issue, 2) even though I AM diet controlled, if I don’t go into labor by my due date they will schedule an induction, 3) I can opt for an elective induction after the 39-week mark if I want, basically if I’m just tired of being pregnant. No one has actually discussed induction at length with me (I do plan to ask at my checkup today) and I have no idea what to expect if this is something they’re willing to put on a schedule.
I do not want to go past my due date, but I don’t know the risks of an elective induction. I so far have no signs of labor. Baby is head down. I was in a lot of pain when I got my first cervix check at 36 weeks & would very much like to not agree to another one. I have not had weekly NSTs, only two, that I requested due to decreased/changed fetal activity. I had a BPP for the first time last week (again, at my request due to feeling like he was in a malposition) which baby passed with flying colors.
Overall my doctors just seem very chill and blasé and approaching me overall as a low-risk, normal pregnancy. Which I’m definitely happy about, but the closer I get I’m so conflicted as to what the right thing to do is. I read the Evidence-Based Birth article about the benefits of induction with GD, but I’ve also seen people mention horror stories with GD & induction here - placental abruption, etc etc. so I just don’t know how I should be feeling at this point. I’m having a lot of anxiety over the last couple of days, I’m literally stressing myself sick over every little thing (sinus headaches, minor changes in baby movement, minor sugar spikes) and just ready to get this show on the f*cking road, to be honest. I wish that my doctors had been more clear with me about all of my options. I feel so lost and confused and just want to have this baby already.

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/live/cjn8w8j06ik?feature=shared

• They're having a jam session when we join
• 3:45 Neo and Luke are improvising a song about all the guys. I'll just translate the lyrics that Luke sings in Thai because he also sings in English a bit too. When you hear Neo talking/singing, he's trying to translate what Luke is singing, but sometimes he's a little off.
  • Mix: "can be good but also bad. Likes to eat a lot with Pond"
  • Phuwin: (sings in English)
  • Pond: (sings in English) "Everyone knows that he always wants to eat rice with Thai omelette (extra salty)"
  • Neo: "He's probably the most annoying in the house, but he's also cute. He loves annoying everyone a lot, especially Earth. That's the kind of person he is. He plays guitar really well."
  • Khaotung: "I like how he likes similar things as me. I like how he plays darts with me. I like how he also wins games like me."
  • (pause while they laugh)
  • 6:30 Earth: "Everyone who's watching this livestream knows that he likes to wear this red sweatshirt." (pause because Neo needs to think of what to play) "Red shirt, red shirt, has nice stuff in his hair" (then sings in English) (pause because of Neo's mistranslation) "Actually, he should be the best in the house, but right now he has the lowest score. But that's alright, because there's lots of time for him to win more games."
  • Gun: "Yellow shirt, like the Sang Sang that he's the presenter of. He's really tiny, but his smile is huge. He's also very good-looking and the nicest in the house" (then Luke says something a bit funny but rude, which makes Gun get up and try to push a pillow in Luke's face)
• 9:50 Mix and Gun go to the kitchen. The others realise that they can watch the footage of the kitchen from the TV.
• 10:45 Neo and Khaotung consider improvising a song for Luke since he didn't get to sing about himself, but Luke declines.
• 12:15 PD asks everyone to assemble in the kitchen. She makes a notification sound before speaking so that the guys don't get startled, which they appreciate
• 13:20 Medal competition sponsored by Sea Me Now. Gun reads the rules. They will divide themselves into two teams. Each team will send two members to prepare "yum" (a type of Thai salad served at room temperature, often involving some kind of noodles like glass noodles) within 15 minutes, using the seafood from Sea Me Now. Meanwhile, the remaining 4 guys will wait in another room until the dishes are ready, and they will come and blindly taste the dishes and vote on which dish is better. Winning team gets one medal each.
  • 16:00 PD asks the teams which member each thinks is the best cook in the team. Phuwin is the best of the left team, and the right-hand team are undecided between Gun and Khaotung. At 17:30 PD asks which member from each group is the worst at cooking. The guys start to figure out that PD is going to pair the best cook with the worst cook, so the right-hand team try to blag that Khaotung and Gun don't know how to cook that well after all. At 18:30, Neo is the only one who hasn't caught on to PD's plan, so he raises his hand to indicate that he's the worst cook on that team because he thinks it means he won't have to cook. Final cooking teams are Phuwin/Neo and Gun/Pond. The rest go to wait in the play zone.
  • 21:00 Phuwin has only just realised that they are required to make "yum," which he doesn't know how to make. He mistakenly thought they could make whatever they wanted. Gun is also not confident.
  • 23:00 Cooking timer begins. Both teams decide to use the salmon. Phuwin/Neo decide they're going to leave their salmon raw. Pond asks Gun if they're going to leave theirs raw too, and Phuwin accuses him of copying them. Gun decides they're going to lightly blanch their salmon.
  • 28:00 Neo goes to look for a food processor. Gun asks if he can process enough chilis for both teams, and Neo initially jokingly declines, but then agrees.
  • 30:15 Phuwin asks Neo to make the glass noodles. Neo isn't sure how to prepare them, and Phuwin guesses that they're supposed to just put them briefly in boiling water (which is correct)
  • 31:30 We cut to the play zone where the tasting teams do a light brand plug for Sea Me Now. They teach Luke a new word that basically means "great." (I guess it's kind of like "sick" in English how the actual definition of the word is different, but it's slang when used in context). Mix is confident that Gun/Pond are going to make the better dish.
  • 37:00 PD announces one minute remaining, and that "the customers are complaining." Gun/Pond finish with some time to spare and present their dish to the camera, but Phuwin/Neo finish a little late (but it's fine; there will be no penalty. PD just keeps rushing them to finish)
  • 40:30 PD asks the teams to write the names of their respective dishes on the mini boards provided. Pond originally writes a name that indirectly reveals that he and Gun made that dish, and PD says that the names can't have any hints of who made which dish.
  • 43:30 PD asks the teams to pose with their respective dishes, and invites the audience to screenshot and caption them. Gun/Pond's dish translates to, "Definitely delicious; try it and see," and Phuwin/Neo's dish (roughly) translates to, "Just making a 'yum,' but don't know how to make it" (It's a rhyme/pun in Thai)
  • 44:30 Cooking teams leave the kitchen and go sit in the living room so they can watch the tasting on the TV. PD warns them not to cheat while the teams are changing rooms.
  • 47:15, the tasting team goes to the kitchen. They each get 3 ping pong balls with which they can vote. Phuwin/Neo's dish is the white side, and Gun/Pond's is the blue side. The votes can be cast by dropping the balls into the coloured containers corresponding to the dishes.
  • 48:00 It is immediately obvious to all of them immediately which team made which dish. Transcription starting from 48:20:
    • Earth: "Why don't we start by judging the presentation before we taste?"
    • Mix: "Looking at these two dishes, this one (blue) is definitely wins."
    • Earth (trying to help his team): "I think I'm going to go with this one (white). Listen, none of us know which dish was made by which team..."
    • Luke: "But we have theories."
    • Mix: "I just want to know in what way this (white) dish could possibly be more beautiful than that (blue) dish."
    • (pause while they think of some nonsense) Luke: "The vegetables. They just look so nice. And there are so many of them."
    • Earth: "I'm giving it to this team (white)."
    • Luke: "Me too."
    • (audio cuts out for a few seconds)
    • Mix is saying "The truth?!" to implore Earth and Luke to admit the truth, but they stick to their decisions
    • Luke: "It's my personal opinion. I'm not changing."
    • 49:55 Mix comes up to the camera and mouths, "There are cheaters here."
    • Earth and Luke say, "Who knows? This plate could have been made by anyone."
    • 50:15 Mix: "Okay, let's move on to the flavour." They taste Phuwin/Neo's first.
    • Earth: "I hear laughing outside. Who's laughing?"
    • 51:00 Luke: "Very good."
    • Earth looks at Luke. Luke: "It's actually good. It suits my palate."
    • Mix: "I mean, it's alright. It's not bad. The salmon and imitation crab are good. They taste really fresh. But the noodles are awkwardly super cold. Like, is this bamee yen (a cold noodle dish)? Also, there's just something not right. It's sour, and it's like trying to be spicy but not spicy, trying to be salty but not salty. It's not balanced. What do you think, Earth?"
    • Earth: "I'll give it to you honestly."
    • Mix: (puts his hand on Earth's shoulder and looks into his eyes) "Yes, give it to us honestly."
    • Earth: "Okay, honestly, I like the raw ingredients. I like that the imitation crab meat is in large chunks. But..."
    • Mix: "Look, he's talking about the raw ingredients. He's not even talking about the flavour of the dish."
    • Earth: "The flavour is like how Mix described. And honestly, it's sour. It's so sour. Uncomfortably sour. Like, too sour. Can I have some water?"
    • 52:40 Luke: "I really like how there are lots of vegetables here. That means that dish is really healthy for you. If you ask me if I can eat the other dish, I can eat it, but it won't be as healthy as this dish."
    • Earth: "Oh, okay, so he's talking about the health value of the dish."
    • Mix: "But we're talking about the flavour of the dish, here, no?"
    • Luke: "I'm a person who doesn't like eating things too spicy. (uses the vocab word he learned earlier) So I like that this one is a good balance. It's not too spicy for me.
    • 53:35 Earth looks at Luke and says, "Is it not too sour? I think you've already helped our team a lot here."
    • Luke: "No, I don't think so. I honestly think it's good. But we haven't tried the other dish."
    • Earth: "That's true. Different people have different flavour preferences. Some like super sour, for example. And if those people also don't like spicy food, this dish is for them."
    • 54:05 They ask for Khaotung's review. He pauses and then quietly says, "Um... Sour. It's sour."
    • Mix: "How about between the words 'delicious' and 'not delicious'?"
    • Khaotung: "Well, I can definitely eat it. But it's super sour. It's not well-rounded."
    • 54:35 They move on to taste Gun/Pond's dish. Mix comes to the camera and enthusiastically whispers, "It's SO good!"
    • 55:15 Earth: "I like the creativity of this team. The salmon was raw, but this team lightly blanched the fish so that the inside is still raw, which adds a lot of layers to the flavours and textures of the dish. I like it."
    • Mix: "Can I speak extendedly? It's SO good. It's amazing. It's well-rounded, yummy, the textures are amazing, and it's easy to see that the person who made it really knows how to cook. I'm pretty sure I know who made it." Khaotung agrees.
    • 56:40 Luke decides to still vote for the white dish because the second dish is a bit too spicy for him. Earth sees that there's no way that the white dish can win anymore, so he puts his last ball into the white container anyway.
  • 58:00 More brand plugging for Sea Me Now
  • 59:45 PD calls the cooking teams back to the kitchen to announce the results.
  • 1:00:35 Luke says to Phuwin/Neo: "I tried, guys." Neo says, "I love this guy. He said the truth straight from his heart." Earth says that he tried to say the truth too. Neo complains that he was working with so many ingredients he had no idea how to use. I was just putting everything in randomly. Mix asks who did the seasoning/flavouring, and Neo said, "Me, but we didn't have time to taste it because we ran out of time."
  • 1:02:00 The cooking teams try each other's dishes (and Phuwin/Neo try their own dish for the first time too). Neo tries Gun/Pond's dish. Earth immediately feeds him a huge bite of his own dish. Neo pauses and says, "It seems like it's missing something." Mix and Earth say, "Not something. Many things. Like deliciousness." Earth feeds some to Phuwin, and he also doesn't like it.
    • 1:02:45 Neo looks at Earth and says, "You did the right thing." (in reference to criticising this dish and voting for the other one). Earth says, "So you understand me now?!"
    • Neo makes fun of how Gun was previously dramatic about not knowing how to make "yum." Gun says that he truly wasn't sure, and Neo feeds Gun some of Phuwin/Neo's dish saying, "See? This is what it means to truly not know what you're doing." Gun's eyes water while eating it, and he says, "It's so sour," and goes to hug Neo and Phuwin.
  • 1:04:00 More brand plugging for Sea Me Now
  • 1:05:00 Neo says that he's glad that there's at least someone (Luke) who enjoys eating his food. He then realises that Luke has only been eating the seafood and the vegetables, none of which have been flavoured/seasoned. Luke then takes a bite of the noodles to appease him.
• 1:06:00 Seafood lunch. Menu includes (professionally-made) "yum" with salmon and imitation crab topped with salmon roe; oysters with a seafood sauce; scallops fried with garlic, salt, and pepper; and grilled salmon steaks
  • 1:17:45 Khaotung and Mix go to the kitchen to make some more food with the fresh seafood they have
  • 1:19:15 Luke asks Earth why he's sitting so far away from him, and Neo turns it into a pun about Earth wanting scissors ("sitting far away" sounds a bit similar to "looking for scissors")
  • 1:21:10 This is Pond's first time trying mashed potatoes. Luke and Phuwin explain what they are to him and explain that in some Western countries, they eat less rice than they do in Asia, so sometimes they eat potatoes as the starch (a lot of the dishes for this meal were prepared in a Western way)
  • 1:22:30 Neo teaches them Isan slang that a more polite phrase to basically say, "BS-ing." They also mention the Central equivalent of the phrase. They ask Luke what an equivalent in English would be, but Luke can only think of "BS-ing," so he says that he can't say it out loud. He eventually goes with "spinning stuff." Neo says that he feels like English doesn't have as many rude/swearing words as Thai does, and Earth makes a joke that he wouldn't be surprised if Neo's name was rude in English.
  • 1:23:55 They like how Luke seems especially giggly today, so they try to keep him laughing. Neo says a Thai phrase/idiom that basically means that he's not even being funny to his full capacity right now, then Earth and Phuwin give some sarcastic remarks that are like playful insults to Neo, which Luke continues laughing at.
  • 1:26:00 Phuwin and Gun join Mix and Khaotung in the kitchen to cook some more seafood. They're prepping some salmon, scallops, and oysters. Gun wants to make lightly floured and pan-fried tofu.
  • 1:27:30 The guys at the table are joking to Luke that it's Thai culture to be polite to people, but then the closer you get to them, the more you insult them. You start the insults behind their back, but then you can eventually insult them to their face (it's not technically false, especially for some friend groups, but the way they were explaining it is a bit too much, hahaha). Then they demonstrate that, actually, the best thing to do is to be polite to someone's face, and then behind their back, you compliment them again.
  • 1:29:00 They exchange the English and Thai versions of the phrase "fishing for compliments"
  • 1:32:20 Luke is trying to tell the story of why he came to Thailand, but he's still in his giggly mood. He wanted to be an actor in the US, but he was scouted from IG to come and be a model in Thailand, so he arranged to come for 3 months, but he liked it, so he stayed.
  • 1:34:10 They mention that they're glad they have Neo in the house because otherwise it would be so much quieter and less entertaining.
  • 1:40:15 Gun brings the tofu for the guys at the table to try. They struggle a bit because it's still very hot, but they approve.
  • 1:43:45 The guys at the table talk about ventriloquists. Luke explains how in the US, ventriloquism can either be creepy or funny depending on the act, but in Thailand it tends to mostly be creepy. They start discussing some related film/series plots.
  • 1:59:30 Pond, Neo, and Luke dance a bit for the cameras
• 2:01:00 Relaxing time. Mix presents the dish he made to the camera: spaghetti pad kee mao (drunken noodles) with scallops, crab, and salmon roe. He brings it to the living room for everyone else to try.
  • 2:08:40 Some language lessons. Phuwin and Luke ask Neo some questions for him to answer in English. They also ask Luke some questions in Thai. They try to ask Neo and Luke to speak English and Thai (respectively) for two minutes each, language exam-style.
• 2:13:50 PD asks the losing team from the last game to go wash dishes. They say that the sink area is small, so two people will wash at a time.
  • 2:36:05 Earth drops and breaks a dish. Earth tells a story about how when he was very young, he hated washing dishes, so sometimes he would secretly break some dirty dishes behind his house so he wouldn't have to clean as many. Eventually his mother started wondering where all the dishes were disappearing to, but she just kept buying more
• 2:41:15 PD asks for someone to wake Gun (who's napping on the sofa) and assemble in the area in front of the medal board for the next medal game. She asks Mix "the one with many medals" and Earth "the one with hardly any medals" to take the lead in reading the rules. Earth is offended, but PD says, "Earth, you have to accept the truth."
  • 2:42:40 Game sponsored by Super Coffee. They will divide into two teams. King of the Day chooses the pairs that will compete together. Each person in the pair will wear a sumo costume with a bag of Super Coffee attached to their back. Whoever is the first to successfully remove the bag of coffee from their opponent's back wins that round, and their team is awarded one point in the game. Once all the pairs have competed, the winners will compete to determine the final winner. Winning team gets one medal each. The rules say nothing about singing or having dancing breaks during each match, but the guys do so anyway.
• 3:21:20 PD asks everyone to change into swimming clothes and meet at the pool. Phuwin has to study, so he won't join for the next activity.
• 3:39:00 Neo reads the directions. They're going to play the Werewolf (ma paa) game. Between the 7 of them, they will randomly get assigned roles: 2 werewolves (who can kill people), 1 bodyguard (who can choose someone to protect from death each round), 1 seer (who can privately uncover the identity of one other player each round), 1 hunter (who, if they are killed, can choose one other person they suspect of being a werewolf to die with them), and 2 villagers. PD will be the narratoreferee. The game is basically between the werewolves and everyone else. Each round, in order, the narrator will instruct the werewolves to choose someone to kill, then the bodyguard to choose someone to protect, then the seer to privately uncover the identity of one other player. Then everyone must talk and decide on one person to kill out of suspicion of being a werewolf. If both werewolves are killed, the common people win. If there's at least one werewolf left at the end of the game, the werewolves win.
  • [PD is a very dramatic and colourful narrator, which is why everyone is reacting to most of her lines throughout the game. Werewolf in Thai is "ma paa" and villagetownsperson is "chao baan," to help you guys understand what's going on. All the other roles are called in English, although sometimes they call the bodyguard "moh" which means doctor]
  • 3:45:30 First game: Werewolves=Gun/Earth, Bodyguard=Neo, Seer=Khaotung, Hunter=Mix
    • First round: No one dies
    • Second round: Pond dies. They vote to kill Khaotung
    • 4:04:45 Third round: No one dies. Neo says that Mix is a common person because he saved this round. They vote to kill Earth
    • 4:13:30 Fourth round: Neo dies. They vote to kill Gun. Common people win.
  • 4:19:00 Second game. They're no longer allowed to say whether they saved someone or not. Werewolves=Khaotung/Mix, Bodyguard=Gun, Seer=Luke, Hunter=Pond
    • First round: Earth dies. They know someone is lying because too many people are claiming to be villagers. They think they should believe Neo because he was so honest last round. They vote to kill Khaotung.
    • 4:34:10 Second round: Pond dies and choses to kill Mix with him. Common people win.
  • 4:37:50 PD asks them to vote on the best and worst liar. They aren't sure yet, but Khaotung is voted the worst liar. Punishment is cleaning one of the bathrooms tomorrow.
• 4:41:15 Relaxing time. Neo gets thrown in the pool.
• 5:08:00 Fan talk
  • Group 1: It's supposed to be the 4 top scorers on the medal board, but Khaotung is still showering, so Earth goes in his place because he's lowest. Neo did a bit more exercise with Luke this morning. They recap the walking doll game from the morning and how random and unpredictable it was. Mix was bitter that he felt like being King today was more of a burden than Luke's experience the previous day. Luke says it's probably because Mix's Thai is better, so they felt like using him for more jobs/tasks. They recap the cooking competition; Gun/Mix say they were lucky that they were on the team that had several options of people who knew how to cook. They talked about how the judging was biased, but Earth said that at the end, he had to admit the fact that Phuwin/Neo's dish was so sour that he could feel it in his brain. Gun/Mix were glad that they didn't have to wash dishes today because there were so many dishes to wash, and they made fun of Earth breaking the dish. They all enjoyed the sumo game. They started to regret that they started the singing/dancing gag, but they committed to it for entertainment purposes. They agreed that Khaotung is indeed the dark horse because no one expected him to be that quick in the sumo game. Everyone also had fun playing Werewolf.
    • 5:18:45 Fan comments: They like how Gun seems like the eldest brother in the house, taking care of everyone. People made fun of Earth's childhood dish-breaking story. (The guys eventually start talking amongst themselves, mainly about how Earth doesn't think he has a chance to win anymore, and they say that there are many more opportunities for medals in the coming days, so anything can happen)
  • 5:26:15 Group 2: They talk about how much Pond likes rice with Thai omelette [note: pretty much everyone in Thailand loves it, but Pond feels like eating it all the time], and he likes to make Phuwin make it for him in this house. They're all impressed with how good Khaotung was at the sumo game. Phuwin/Neo explain what happened during the cooking competition: Phuwin usually never eats "yum," but last week, his family made some but he didn't have any, so he regrets not having it so he would have a better idea of how to make it. Neo said he was just randomly putting things in without knowing for sure if they were supposed to go in. They made fun of Neo's dishwashing "technique." They recapped Werewolf, and everyone was unsure whether to trust/believe the things Neo says because he talks rubbish a lot.
    • 5:32:45 Fan comments: They mention that this has turned into a pure comedy show. They like how everyone works together and the vibe isn't overly competitive.
  • 5:37:00 Late-night meal. Menu includes fried chicken wings, spaghetti carbonara, spaghetti with bacon, sticky rice with pork, sandwich, pizza, more spaghetti, and minced pork wrapped with noodles.
    • They feel like today was very full/busy, and they're all feeling tired, but they've had fun.
    • 5:47:00 Earth and Neo say that they may not have many medals, but at least they're funny. They get up and try to entertain the rest of the guys.
• 5:52:45 Everyone bids farewell to Gun because it's his last night. Gun says to the audience, "Thank you so much for watching all of us these past three days. I hope you've enjoyed seeing our dynamics in this more relaxed environment. I hope you'll continue watching the rest of the guys for the rest of the days and see what fun is in store."

Hi guys. Making another shot at this. Cut prices on a few things because I'm just running out of room for storing my new builds. Order multiples and I may cut you a deal.
This post is mostly for people interested in buying, but I love a trade! If you're interested in trading see my latest post in /letstradepedals. I post there every other week, usually on Tuesday. I got non-DIY stuff in the trade post, too.
What I got for sale is hand-built stuff that I made, mostly relatively unique or heavily tweaked designs built on vero or point to point. Many are housed in upcycled tins, a few in hammond boxes. I've also got small practice amps built inside whatevers that you can crank up and enjoy at low volumes. They all run on standard 9v pedal power.
PRICES DON'T INCLUDE SHIPPING -- I ship USPS priority using pirateship.com, so expect shipping to be between $5 and $15 depending on how close you are to Tennessee. Would prefer to not deal with international shipping, but if you want it bad enough to pay for it, I'm game.
I accept Paypal or Venmo.
MOBILE USERS: There are 4 columns in the table below: Name, Price, Links, and Notes. If you don't see all 4, scroll over or ask for more info.
Fuzzes

Name	Price	Links	Notes
Bazz Me Fuss You #1	$90	PIC DEMO	A bazz-fussified perversion of the Escobedo push-me-pull-you, featuring controls for octave and volume. This is the first unit I've built using my own custom PCB. Housed in a painted 125B with top jacks.
Space Fuzz	$80	PIC DEMO	This is a Hollis crash sync fuzz that I souped up with an LFO to modulate the filtesync frequency. Really wild flangery/phasey type gated fuzz sound. At the right settings you can get some octave-down effects as well. Housed in a ~3.5 inch square game tin reinforced with recycled plastic. Pretty pleased with this build.
SwirlFuzz	$75	PIC DEMO	Modulated octave fuzz prototype. It's an octave fuzz, but you can switch on an LFO to modulate the octave amount. Controls for Rate, Depth, Gain, and Volume, plus switches for waveshape and mode (Normal/Octave/Modulated). In a circular tin reinforced with recycled plastic.
Big Green Fuzz for Attractive Bass Players	$75	PIC Demo	Like my bazz-me-fuss-you circuit, but with a big muff tone stack, a clean blend, and optional clippers for more compression. Housed in a big round tin reinforced with recycled plastic and designed specifically for attractive bass players. Unattractive ones may not really gel with this.
Creature from the planet Chyowngg	$65	PIC Demo	Prototype of a unique fuzz I've been developing that I call the Chyowngg fuzz. It's a 2-stage octaver that gives a bright synthy tone with a distinctive envelope (hence the name). You can toggle each stage from octave to non-octave mode for a variety of interesting timbres. Also has a tone control, but the tone control is before the octave stages so it results in interesting behaviors depending on the switch settings. It's in a tin meant to be painted like an alien, though some say it looks more like a triceratops.
Baller Fuzz	$60	PIC DEMO	Another Bazz-Me-Fuss-You build with an added BMP-style tone control. In a slightly beaten-up heart-shaped basketball tin. Y'all ready for this?
Wiff Spwinkles on Top	$45	PIC Demo	This point-to-point fuzz lives in the same neighborhood as the Harmonic Percolator, but has a few differences. I altered the way the gain knob works, and added a switch to toggle bass cut. It's housed in an ice-creamity welly tin.
Dumbo's Bazzrite Fussrite	$40	PIC Demo	A bazz-fussified mosrite fuzzrite circuit I cobbled together in point-to-point wiring style. Housed in a little Dumbo puzzle tin with GLITTER! Controls are for balance (kind of tone-cum-gain) and volume.

Drives, Distortions, and Boosts

Name	Price	Links	Notes
Bronze Drive	$85	PIC Demo	This is a point-to-point, transistor based overdrive I designed based loosely on the Davisson Easy Drive. Good for low-gain crunchy tones and plenty of output volume on tap if you want it for a boost. Tone circuit is like a BMP stack but with a mid hump instead of a mid cut. Housed in a painted 125B with top jacks.
Copper ZenerMorph Drive	$65	PIC Demo	This is an experiment in zener diode clipping. Nice crispy drive that gets beefier as you turn up the gain, lots of good edge-of-breakup tones to be had. Housed in a decorated tin reinforced with some plastic.
GOOST	$65	PIC	A simple JFET boost vaguely based on the Runoffgroove Fetzer valve. Switch toggles bass cut for a treble-boosting sound. Point-to-point build housed in a small tin reinforced with recycled plastic.
B is for Beast	$55	PIC DEMO	This fun little drive/boost consists of two cascading MOSFET gain stages with optional clipping in between. It goes from clean and loud to massive wall-of-gain distortion nicely. Controls for gain, clipping, and volume. In a small heart-shaped tin about 4in by 4in.
Shining Hope Drive	$40	PIC Demo	Differential mirroring drive, gives a kind of overdriven-mixer-channel distortion. Controls for gain, tone, and volume. Housed in a star-shaped Christmas tin.
Green Sparkler Boost	$35	PIC	Just an Escobedo Duende JFET boost built point-to-point in a sparkly little round tin. Gives a little gain and a bit of warmth to the tone.

Non-Dirt

Name	Tier	Links	Notes
Gift of Chykka Wakka	$65	PIC DEMO	First build of an all-transistor envelope filter I designed. Built point-to-point style and housed in a little giftbox tin reinforced with recycled plastic. Controls for Q and Sweep, switch toggles envelope smoothing.
Vortex of Funk	$65	PIC DEMO	Second build of the Chykka-Wakka circuit, this one features attack, Q, and range controls. Built point-to-point and housed in a painted tin.
BZZZ BOOP BEEP	$50	PIC DEMO	A basic square wave oscillator on a momentary switch. Can go from bzzz to boop to beep with a sweep of the big knob. Also has tone and volume controls, and a 3-way switch for different decay amounts. Use it to simulate a spring door stopper or dying cow. Or bleep your foul-mouthed frontman. Or mess with the sound guy. Or send Morse code to the bar. I dunno. Housed in a painted tin reinforced with recycled plastic.

Little Amps

Name	Price	Links	Description
Ample iMank	$65	PICS DEMO	This is a Runoffgroove Ruby Amplifier built into this old multimedia speaker enclosure designed to look like an old iMac. Glows blue when you turn it on. It runs from a standard 9v pedal power. It's not terribly loud, nor terribly clean, but if you dig the classic mac vibe it might be fun. Controls for gain and volume, and a power switch on the back.
Nosy Amp	$75	PICS DEMO	Another solid-state amp based on the Ruby amplifier, housed in a repurposed bookshelf speaker. This one actually has pretty decent volume, even on 9V (can run on 12V as well for more), and can stay clean while getting loud enough for a quiet jam with friends.
Fleur-de-Lis Amp	$90	PICS DEMO	A tiny bookshelf speaker turned into a practice amp. This one features a class D power amp for lovely cleans, and a custom designed discrete preamp that gets punchy & crunchy when cranked. Runs on 9V but pretty loud nonetheless.

That's all for now. I just keep building and building, though, so there'll be more.

TLDR: My boyfriend denied remembering asking me to move in with him but says he still wants to. I don't like how he chose to approach this and I don't know how to go forward. How do I navigate this?
PSA English isn't my first language
Setting the scene: I (24F) had a bad fight with my mother (F59) yesterday afternoon and my boyfriend (M22) came over to my apartment to console me. A little background on my mother - she has suffered narcissistic abuse and sometimes uses damaging tactics to win small argument. She gets defensive and says things she doesn't mean and always apologises (she is getting help) but yesterday she had a particularly nasty episode that really hurt me and left me crying once I got home. I called my boyfriend to vent and he came over to console me. I had stopped crying by the time he got there and we went back to his place where I curled up in his bed, scrolled through social media to distract myself while he worked on his laptop at his desk.
We didn't really talk about anything other than his work, his day, his plans for the week and my fight with my mother until we fell asleep. Just after I fell asleep he woke me up to tell me that I shouldn't be upset if we don't end up moving in together at the end of the year like we had discussed. I asked what he meant thinking that the place we wanted might not be available anymore or he was having financial issues, but he told me no he just hadn't made up his mind about moving in together yet. I said something along the lines of "Why did you ask me to move in with you if you hadn't made up your mind yet?" to which he responded that he doesn't remember ever asking me and that according to him we had only ever discussed it as a possibility.
Background: We hadn't talked about moving in before he had asked me casually over dinner two months ago if I would move in with him when his roommate moved back to his home county come end 2024. This is all many months away and I said yes thinking it gave us lots of time to adjust to the idea making the whole transition easier.
At this point I was tired, drained from my argument with my mother, suddenly felt like I was being rejected and like this just came out of nowhere so couldn't stop myself from letting a tear or two slip (not real crying though) while talking. He said I was being overly emotional, that the only reason he said anything was so that I wouldn't get upset and he didn't want to discuss it further. I told him I was just caught off guard and wanted to understand where he was coming from. We talked it through and he said that while he still wanted to move in with me he wasn't sure he would be ready at the end of the year. I said I understood and I never wanted him to feel pressured and would never want to move in with a partner who didn't want to be there. We just went to sleep after that.
Last night I told myself I'd just let it go and wait for him to decide what he wanted but now I'm confused, sad and thinking I should probably take this more seriously. It felt like he had a late-night spiral and spoke without really considering the state I was in, the effect it would have on me or what he really wanted out of the conversation as he has since gone back to saying that he definitely wants to live with me he's just intimidated by taking such a big step in a relationship.
Basically I want to navigate this so that he's not pressured into anything, but he still understands that I don't have as much confidence in our future as I had before. How do I bring this up with him without pushing him too hard?
Relevant information:
I'm his first serious adult relationship
we have been officially dating for more than a year
we both have very good relationships with each other's friends and families
his parents have just recently had a messy divorce
he mentioned his mother doesn't seem keen on us moving in together though they haven't directly discussed it
neither of us are particularly religious
we have only had two serious disagreements and both times were caused by him drinking too much and subsequently getting hurt but we quickly moved past all that

I’m not sure if anyone else feels this way, but something I’ve come to realize about TOS and why I enjoy it is that they proclaim it to be a deep space mission, exploring the frontiers of charted space and then basically never visit earth, even when they do, it’s via time travel (twice lol)
They have a very minor selection of federation diplomatic missions, Journey to Babel comes to mind or scientific exploration like the M5 computer tests, but they even find time to fit in star charting, cataloguing in between all the new discoveries, and then after all their work, shore leave may sometimes only be at best a random planet that isn’t hostile to them or a space station/starbase.
I know they visit earth like planets a lot, but establishing that they aren’t their earth helps maintain that vibe of being lost in space almost, and of course in many episodes across the entire franchise, long range subspace communication takes time but for instance in Balance of Terror, it’s a crucial plot point that both captains are acting autonomously against each other in a game of chess, with the joke at the end being, Starfleet would have let Kirk make any decision either way
Closing this out I’ll say each series has its strengths and weaknesses, I like them in their own ways, this isn’t a “TOS is better because” I’m just recognizing why and what I like about TOS

Something I've (34M) struggled with recently is the the balance between meeting/accepting someone where they are at and having the grace to allow each other to rebuild and grow, versus having certain standards met upfront.
I've been dating someone (31F) for just over a year, and I've made a point of taking things slowly to allow ourselves the space to grow as individuals. We both came out of long term relationships prior to meeting; I moved back to a city where I have roots after living away with an ex, and she moved here from another country with a long term partner who she subsequently decided to break up with. I don't think she had much time between that break up and dating, so I definitely thought it was important to take it slowly, partially for my own benefit too while I was re-settling. Our relationship has been very much "take it slow, get to know each other, enjoy each others' company".
She's pretty, intelligent and we generally have a good time together. She accepts me for who I am and there has never been any drama. However recently it's concerned me that what I've initially assumed as side-effects of "figuring things out" are actually genuine personality traits that might cause problems, and it's tricky to spot the difference. She often comes across as a bit passive when making decisions, and perhaps isn't as passionate or enthusiastic about things as I'd like. She also has a fairly small network here, and I worry about the future support required if building a family (both of our parents live out of the country). However I do get that it's hard work to move into a new phase in life, and it's okay to not know exactly what you are doing with life right now. She isn't needy or dependent on me, so that's not really the issue, in fact she seems quite content - it's just I'm maybe not feeling as inspired and challenged as I'd like, you know?
I suppose what I'm wondering is how can you tell the difference between a temporary result of life circumstances and an inherent personality trait? Is she just temporarily unable to flourish? How can you be sure you don't sleepwalk into something, but also that you don't throw away something good due to impatience? I'm very aware this is also a "me" thing.
Has anyone related to this? Is this just a case of giving it more time to try and work towards a place where we are both satisfied, or does it sound like an emerging long-term incompatibility?

(Only Europe, Please) - short note - If you're not into reading or receiving long messages,don't read any further + Please If you don't want to read everything because of my post being too long for you & instead of reading It all - ..skip some parts - find another person to talk to.Let's respect each other and our free time. All people criticizing/making fun of me & other people - will be blocked.Pretty much as people questioning my post and giving me unsolicited advice.I'm not here for any conflicts and I know I can't please everyone - I know I never will.. However It's me who should feel comfortable in my new potential friendship & obviously someone who wants to be my friend - not the whole world.. which is why I don't need any advice from people who don't even want to be a part of my life. The amount of rude people on Reddit always criticizing others and making fun of them is unbelievably high but let me tell you something - NEVER let anyone make choices for you and criticize you only because you're different! Always fight for your dreams and never let anyone make you think you're worthless! It's your life and you're the one deciding what's best for you - If you want to judge me despite not even wanting to talk to me or give me advice better block me! I'm an adult woman and I make all decisions on my own.I'm not trying to "fit in" and be like everyone else - just to get more attention.Accept me for who I am or let go - is my motto.
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Hello guys! 🙂 (read everything before you decide to send me a message) Please send me a message ONLY If you're in the same situation and If your expectations are the same as mine.I want to find like minded people from Europe (Why Europe? Read my post to find out) I'm looking for something permanent (remember - you can feel lonely even If you're surrounded by others - If there's no emotional bond) I'm fed up of meeting people who never make time for me & only text me once or twice a week to ask me "what are you up to?" Out of boredom.I don't want to meet people asking others a million of questions like "what's your favorite movie?" Just to give them one word answer and ask them another question "and music? Your favorite song?" I'm looking for something "deeper" & different 🙂
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What kind of friend would I like to find? Someone to talk to on a daily basis - Someone who needs It & wants It just as much as me
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What are my expectations? I would like to meet someone in a similar situation – why? Because I honestly feel like only a person with the same expectations and a similar outlook on life would get along with me & because I feel more comfortable talking to people like me..Friendless people who need a strong bond - people without friends and partners.. Don't get me wrong…Most people deserve to be happy and It's good to have friends but people who have friends or families in real life are usually more focused on them (which is completely understandable) & have less time for others + I simply don't want to be replaced by anyone..I kind of envy people who can call others , true friends given I don't have an emotional bond with any of my acquaintances. Please send me a message only If you're not In a relationship and don't have friends for the same reasons I've already mentioned before
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Whenever I hear that others have friends I simply get sad because (believe it or not) If I had to choose between 20 people to talk to (acquaintances) and one special person - I'd choose that one special person without any hesitation .
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I also want to talk to others every day because..I want to see someone’s effort & be someone's first choice - not another person to have random conversations with..some people ask me "Why do you want to talk to people from Europe?" Well..Because I would like to see someone I'd get along with - In the far future - face to face :) + I don't want to wait any longer than 6 hours to receive a message - waiting 6 hours to receive a message is more than enough
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I'm by no means criticizing people who don't want to talk to others often / People who really are super busy & People who want to find someone to have unimportant conversations with - I'm aware that not everyone has the same expectations which is why everything you're reading now - is here for a reason :) All I'm suggesting is - I don't want anything temporary and I don't want to be the one always giving more than receiving.Listen people - I used to ignore being..ignored by others..always being just an option to talk to during tough times or moments of boredom.I was too young to realize that I was never important enough for most people that were a part of my life. I don't know who needs to hear this but..No one is too busy to make time for you! People make excuses to avoid others because they prioritize everything and (maybe) everyone..over them. It's true that most people are busy - but It takes only a few seconds to start a conversation (If you're into short messages) and a few minutes (1-10/15) to type a long message . Don't let anyone lie to you.
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Truth is that most people either don't like you enough to make time for you or just simply - feel no need to talk to others often but are they too busy? No..You don't need to send me a message just to ask me and tell me "Do you really want to talk every day? I like long messages but I can't promise to contact you often" If you really are unsure please don't send me a message.I don't need more acquaintances aka people to talk to - occasionally.
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I'm not trying to sound rude but conversations once or twice a week wouldn't be enough for me and I don't need them... Let me tell you one thing – A true friend would never just give up on you for no reason :) It’s always possible to find someone to have a random conversation with – someone willing to send you one message once or twice a week..but..It’s almost impossible to find people willing to make more time for you.
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I’m not asking a busy person to make time for me by changing some plans! Absolutely not! I’m here to find someone who wants to talk daily (throughout the day or maybe even night) of one’s own will.Someone looking for the same kind of connection.Strong friendships are based on mutual support. One of the best things you can do for a friend in need, is just to be there for them when they want to talk.I often see posts from people who always say how friendless they are because they don't feel loved or appreciated by their "friends" remember! A true friend - someone who truly likes you or someone who wants to get to know you - will always find time for you.
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I'm not interested in small talk/short messages - I love long and meaningful conversations. It's so easy to find someone who loves abbreviations and questions like "How are you?" How was your day? Or what are you interested in? But so hard/almost impossible to find a person who knows how to keep a conversation going & show others some effort.Building and maintaining friendships takes time and effort.Never allow pursuits or possessions to become bigger priorities than your relations with other people.Close friendships are so important to us because they are so difficult to form + Having friends can help you feel as if you belong to something that brings purpose and connection to your life
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• I do NOT respond to any „Hey,hmu” or „u want to talk?” type of messages (super short messages or messages full of abbreviations – I literally can’t stand abbreviations and acronyms in text messages) ALL messages full of abbreviations will immediately be ignored.I also don't like it when people ignore everything I say in private messages just to focus on a random question or? When they start talking only about themselves and don't ever ask me anything. I love conversations with people referring to everything I say...I want everything I say and do - to be reciprocated
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• No NSFW profiles (checking mental health subreddits NOT included as I'm a huge empath and always try to understand others) - Please! I'm not looking for anyone to flirt with and I'm not looking for a partner either. I always check people's profiles (even comment history) - To avoid guys, trying to get inappropriate pictures from adult women or? flirt with them + I don't want to see you with no clothes on so If you're on Reddit only because you want others to see what's underneath your clothes - I'm not for you! I just simply don't want to see any s e x related activity on your profile If you want to talk to me.
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• If both of us (you and I) are from the same country (I live in a non-English speaking country) - I want to communicate with you in our first language! No - Not because I don't understand English - because as you see - I do. Why then? English is simply overrated and people don't appreciate other languages as much as they should. So.. If we're from the same country and you want to talk only in English (which is quite common on reddit) - Talk to someone else. I just don't want to talk to a person from the same country as mine - in a foreign language as It's just something I don't understand even If all you want is to improve your language skills
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• Please only adult people 18-36 (age range) It doesn't matter to me If you're younger or older than me (as long as you're not underage) So.. don't worry! I just want to have discussions with emotionally mature people :)
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• I don’t respond to messages I don’t find interesting even If they're long - If after receiving and reading your message I don't feel comfortable or think "I wouldn't get along with him/her" I simply do not respond (what I’m suggesting is that I don’t always respond to someone’s first or second message because..sometimes you just know If you’d get along with someone or not- I’d never ignore anyone after days or weeks of daily conversations though) just because I don’t want to do anything forcefully & because I don’t want to lead anyone on. I read all messages but I definitely don't respond to all of them! I want to make it clear because I don't want to be accused of not responding and not reading people's messages! - Some people don't message me back as well and even If It's a bit disappointing I'm ok with that! - as long as there's no emotional bond - Not responding to someone's first or second message Is completely OK! If people think they wouldn't get along with a stranger - is there a reason to start a conversation? I don't think so. I can't stand being ignored after days or weeks of daily conversations and seeing people changing priorities over time.. but that's something different - something I don't want to go through ever again for real. If I'm really interested in someone's message it's impossible to hear from me "I'm too busy" because I know myself and If I had no time for others - I wouldn't be here. I don't want to pretend someone I'm not and always try to find some cheap excuses to avoid others. (unlike most people who don't want to talk to others)
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• Don’t ask me “Can you tell me something about yourself?” If you really want to get to know me - you can ask me questions :) I'm an open book.
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• It would be better If you guys were into emojis - like me - to describe your emotions In text messages. Two emojis - 🙂 and 🙁 are completely enough! I just don't like emotionless conversations.I also don't like it when people say "yeah" or yea"as it sounds dismissively. First impression Is everything to me! I want to see your kindness even in a text message - Emojis are very helpful to express your emotions.I don't want to meet people who say "crying Is a weakness" - It's OK to cry even If you're a guy!
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• I want to talk on reddit first (just to make sure If I'd get along with you) before moving to Discord or some other app
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• I would rather talk to a homebody - not another person who always has something to do as people who are very busy don't even have time for daily conversations
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• If you're another person interested only in "childish conversations" such as "HEYOOO! I'M BORED! Ya like Pizza or cheese? xDDDD 🤣" I'm begging you! Don't send me a message.I'm not a child anymore and such messages don't make me smile or laugh.I'm looking for someone interested In serious discussions - not another person just seeking some entertainment out of boredom . Conversations with sarcastic undertones (even when It comes to some emojis such as 🤣😂) are not for me. Your typing style matters to me! Why? when It comes to online conversations with someone new - It's not always possible to know If someone Is laughing at you.. or with you. Let me tell you something else! Jokes about cancer, disabilities and death are UNACCEPTABLE to me. If you find joy In someone else's misfortune you are not a person I want to know.
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• Time response matters to me a lot! I would never ask anyone to be online all day long and I'm NOT asking any of you for any instant messaging as I'm someone who would rather wait an hour or two to receive a proper response instead of some short and pointless messages but I'm interested only in daily conversations and I don't want to wait any longer than 6 hours to get a message from you.I don't need unbelievably long messages either! Messages as long as the second paragraph of my post - are completely enough. If you like longer messages? you can send me a longer message, but If you want to send me one word or one sentence as a response to my post - don't expect a reaction from me. I don't want to come across as rude - I just don't want to waste your time
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• I'm strongly AGAINST picking on people you don't even want to chat with - and making fun of them! I can't stand people who criticize others publicly or make fun of them! (only because they disagree with someone they don't even know) There's no place In my life for someone using Reddit, to hurt other people
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• I'm not into foul language and I definitely don't want to talk to people who swear a lot...
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• I want to meet assertive people who know what they want and always stand up for their friends
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• I want to meet someone willing to call me In the future, someone spontaneously sending me pictures of animals or food, et cetera. I want more than just text conversations.. 🌻
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Why can’t you see any of my hobbies listed down below? Because what really matters to me is..who you are (If you’re honest, talkative ,understanding, caring and trustworthy – for example) just simply – It matters to me what you’re like! not what you like.Don’t get me wrong – you can tell me what your hobbies are but from my point of view - people's hobbies are important - If you want to find a gaming buddy or If you want to meet someone to hang out with in real life and..go bowling for example.What most people seem to care about are other people's passions – I don’t. I get along with other people despite having completely different hobbies but I absolutely don’t get along with people way different than me (different expectations and outlook on life – way different sense of humor or personality traits – It’s just an example) It doesn't make ANY DIFFERENCE to me If you're a gamer or? Someone interested in photography! It doesn't make any difference - > as long as you're talkative and kind and If you also want to find someone willing to stay in your life..for good - But If you're into small talk and all you want is to...type and receive super short messages or If you're here only because you're bored and don't know what to do + If you're a very sarcastic person - I'm definitely not for you! I don't get along with overly sarcastic people turning everything into a joke. Friendships should be natural – not forced. I wouldn't get along with people who laugh at everything.. In my opinion most people are way too sarcastic.. It's quite sad... Sarcasm can also be another form of passive-aggressive behavior.
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People who want to be to friends should feel comfortable and have something in common. No - not necessarily a similar taste in music or movies but something else..Most friendships don't fizzle out because of people not having the same hobbies but..because they just simply have different expectations when It comes to something important.I'm not here out of boredom and trust me - I'm not here to meet as many people as possible.I choose quality over quantity.I highly value myself and my time & Sometimes one person but a person who makes you feel comfortable and understood - is more than enough :) We ALL can choose what kind of people we’d like to talk to and maybe even become really good friends with and I? I don’t want anyone to be disappointed.We all have some expectations after all.I know that people don't have to talk as often as possible in order to become friends but I'm interested only in daily conversations. If you really need someone to talk to due to loneliness and If you have time to talk to me daily (throughout the day and maybe even night) I always make time for others.I'm literally always available.I could even stay up all night long only to talk to someone important to me. I’m ready to commit but only If there’s some chemistry between me and someone else.I don’t do anything forcefully.
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If you want to talk to me tell me your story - tell me why you're here, what kind of friend would you like to meet :) Et cetera.Such messages are way more interesting to me than...someone's long list of hobbies. I know! It's unusual on reddit but I don't make friends based on hobbies..I want to meet someone with the same mindset as mine to finally feel understood and get close to someone new. You can share your problems with me - I absolutely don't mind "complaining" as I've been through a lot in my life.What do people usually tell you when you tell them that something's wrong? "Don't complain" or "Life's not over yet - one day you'll be happy" or "There are worse situations than yours" and..obviously "Find a therapist" Life's not a fairytale and sometimes things don't go as planned.Emotions shouldn't be bottled up.I'm sick of people always telling others "everything's gonna be ok" move on " & more..Trust me people - not everyone wants to hear "Just believe in yourself and everything's gonna be ok" Some people take it as reassurance - but others? They would rather hear something different 🙁Imagine being told that things will be okay, only for them to get worse..Do you guys know why telling someone "everything's gonna be ok" Is wrong? Because you can't see the future.
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You can't guarantee others that one day they'll finally be happy + when It comes to social interactions - We're responsible only for ourselves - not others & as you guys know people let us down quite often (sometimes even when there's no reason) so instead of telling people how they should move on, forget everything and be happy or asking them to find a therapist - be there for them! Always be willing to listen to them If you really like them or want to get to know them & don't suggest everyone in a tough situation to find a therapist because even the best therapist won't ever replace a true friend + It's quite normal to be disappointed If people always do something to hurt you. Sharing your hardships with other people in a very similar situation or exactly the same one - is VERY helpful If the other person understands you & wants to start all over by just letting it all out! Feeling emotional support instead of always hearing some "positive quotes" or someone saying "Stop complaining let's talk about something else - Is very important! "Everyone needs a shoulder to cry on. I appreciate sensitive people who always try to understand others. If after hearing a sad story all you want to say is "forget the past and move on" you're not for me. It's important to be a good listener and provide emotional support to others
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Please - If you're a completely different person than the described type of person I'm looking for (If you love abbreviations,If you don't need a stable friendship, If you're sarcastic and quiet) or If you simply disagree with my post - don't force yourself to send me a message.I want my new potential friendship to be natural which is why I want you to contact me only If your needs are the same - I don't want you to pretend someone you're not - only to please me - Pretending to be someone you're not - is the worst.I want to finally be happy again & find someone "always" wanting to talk - sending me random pictures throughout the day - food pictures or pictures of some animals. What is the most important to me? I want to find people who value online friendships as much as they would value real life ones as there's another human being on the other side
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No comments please.Only Private messages and chat requests 🌺
I know It's possible to meet people with exactly the same expectations as mine but It's just not easy because most people are Interested In temporary and entertaining conversations. People like me are just "different" I really want to finally find someone who loves emojis as much as I do.. someone who loves sweet, warm and serious discussions at the same time. Emojis really do - change conversations 😊

(Only Europe, Please) - short note - If you're not into reading or receiving long messages,don't read any further + Please If you don't want to read everything because of my post being too long for you & instead of reading It all - ..skip some parts - find another person to talk to.Let's respect each other and our free time. All people criticizing/making fun of me & other people - will be blocked.Pretty much as people questioning my post and giving me unsolicited advice.I'm not here for any conflicts and I know I can't please everyone - I know I never will.. However It's me who should feel comfortable in my new potential friendship & obviously someone who wants to be my friend - not the whole world.. which is why I don't need any advice from people who don't even want to be a part of my life. The amount of rude people on Reddit always criticizing others and making fun of them is unbelievably high but let me tell you something - NEVER let anyone make choices for you and criticize you only because you're different! Always fight for your dreams and never let anyone make you think you're worthless! It's your life and you're the one deciding what's best for you - If you want to judge me despite not even wanting to talk to me or give me advice better block me! I'm an adult woman and I make all decisions on my own.I'm not trying to "fit in" and be like everyone else - just to get more attention.Accept me for who I am or let go - is my motto.
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Hello guys! 🙂 (read everything before you decide to send me a message) Please send me a message ONLY If you're in the same situation and If your expectations are the same as mine.I want to find like minded people from Europe (Why Europe? Read my post to find out) I'm looking for something permanent (remember - you can feel lonely even If you're surrounded by others - If there's no emotional bond) I'm fed up of meeting people who never make time for me & only text me once or twice a week to ask me "what are you up to?" Out of boredom.I don't want to meet people asking others a million of questions like "what's your favorite movie?" Just to give them one word answer and ask them another question "and music? Your favorite song?" I'm looking for something "deeper" & different 🙂
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What kind of friend would I like to find? Someone to talk to on a daily basis - Someone who needs It & wants It just as much as me
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What are my expectations? I would like to meet someone in a similar situation – why? Because I honestly feel like only a person with the same expectations and a similar outlook on life would get along with me & because I feel more comfortable talking to people like me..Friendless people who need a strong bond - people without friends and partners.. Don't get me wrong…Most people deserve to be happy and It's good to have friends but people who have friends or families in real life are usually more focused on them (which is completely understandable) & have less time for others + I simply don't want to be replaced by anyone..I kind of envy people who can call others , true friends given I don't have an emotional bond with any of my acquaintances. Please send me a message only If you're not In a relationship and don't have friends for the same reasons I've already mentioned before
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Whenever I hear that others have friends I simply get sad because (believe it or not) If I had to choose between 20 people to talk to (acquaintances) and one special person - I'd choose that one special person without any hesitation .
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I also want to talk to others every day because..I want to see someone’s effort & be someone's first choice - not another person to have random conversations with..some people ask me "Why do you want to talk to people from Europe?" Well..Because I would like to see someone I'd get along with - In the far future - face to face :) + I don't want to wait any longer than 6 hours to receive a message - waiting 6 hours to receive a message is more than enough
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I'm by no means criticizing people who don't want to talk to others often / People who really are super busy & People who want to find someone to have unimportant conversations with - I'm aware that not everyone has the same expectations which is why everything you're reading now - is here for a reason :) All I'm suggesting is - I don't want anything temporary and I don't want to be the one always giving more than receiving.Listen people - I used to ignore being..ignored by others..always being just an option to talk to during tough times or moments of boredom.I was too young to realize that I was never important enough for most people that were a part of my life. I don't know who needs to hear this but..No one is too busy to make time for you! People make excuses to avoid others because they prioritize everything and (maybe) everyone..over them. It's true that most people are busy - but It takes only a few seconds to start a conversation (If you're into short messages) and a few minutes (1-10/15) to type a long message . Don't let anyone lie to you.
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Truth is that most people either don't like you enough to make time for you or just simply - feel no need to talk to others often but are they too busy? No..You don't need to send me a message just to ask me and tell me "Do you really want to talk every day? I like long messages but I can't promise to contact you often" If you really are unsure please don't send me a message.I don't need more acquaintances aka people to talk to - occasionally.
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I'm not trying to sound rude but conversations once or twice a week wouldn't be enough for me and I don't need them... Let me tell you one thing – A true friend would never just give up on you for no reason :) It’s always possible to find someone to have a random conversation with – someone willing to send you one message once or twice a week..but..It’s almost impossible to find people willing to make more time for you.
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I’m not asking a busy person to make time for me by changing some plans! Absolutely not! I’m here to find someone who wants to talk daily (throughout the day or maybe even night) of one’s own will.Someone looking for the same kind of connection.Strong friendships are based on mutual support. One of the best things you can do for a friend in need, is just to be there for them when they want to talk.I often see posts from people who always say how friendless they are because they don't feel loved or appreciated by their "friends" remember! A true friend - someone who truly likes you or someone who wants to get to know you - will always find time for you.
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I'm not interested in small talk/short messages - I love long and meaningful conversations. It's so easy to find someone who loves abbreviations and questions like "How are you?" How was your day? Or what are you interested in? But so hard/almost impossible to find a person who knows how to keep a conversation going & show others some effort.Building and maintaining friendships takes time and effort.Never allow pursuits or possessions to become bigger priorities than your relations with other people.Close friendships are so important to us because they are so difficult to form + Having friends can help you feel as if you belong to something that brings purpose and connection to your life
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• I do NOT respond to any „Hey,hmu” or „u want to talk?” type of messages (super short messages or messages full of abbreviations – I literally can’t stand abbreviations and acronyms in text messages) ALL messages full of abbreviations will immediately be ignored.I also don't like it when people ignore everything I say in private messages just to focus on a random question or? When they start talking only about themselves and don't ever ask me anything. I love conversations with people referring to everything I say...I want everything I say and do - to be reciprocated
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• No NSFW profiles (checking mental health subreddits NOT included as I'm a huge empath and always try to understand others) - Please! I'm not looking for anyone to flirt with and I'm not looking for a partner either. I always check people's profiles (even comment history) - To avoid guys, trying to get inappropriate pictures from adult women or? flirt with them + I don't want to see you with no clothes on so If you're on Reddit only because you want others to see what's underneath your clothes - I'm not for you! I just simply don't want to see any s e x related activity on your profile If you want to talk to me.
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• If both of us (you and I) are from the same country (I live in a non-English speaking country) - I want to communicate with you in our first language! No - Not because I don't understand English - because as you see - I do. Why then? English is simply overrated and people don't appreciate other languages as much as they should. So.. If we're from the same country and you want to talk only in English (which is quite common on reddit) - Talk to someone else. I just don't want to talk to a person from the same country as mine - in a foreign language as It's just something I don't understand even If all you want is to improve your language skills
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• Please only adult people 18-36 (age range) It doesn't matter to me If you're younger or older than me (as long as you're not underage) So.. don't worry! I just want to have discussions with emotionally mature people :)
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• I don’t respond to messages I don’t find interesting even If they're long - If after receiving and reading your message I don't feel comfortable or think "I wouldn't get along with him/her" I simply do not respond (what I’m suggesting is that I don’t always respond to someone’s first or second message because..sometimes you just know If you’d get along with someone or not- I’d never ignore anyone after days or weeks of daily conversations though) just because I don’t want to do anything forcefully & because I don’t want to lead anyone on. I read all messages but I definitely don't respond to all of them! I want to make it clear because I don't want to be accused of not responding and not reading people's messages! - Some people don't message me back as well and even If It's a bit disappointing I'm ok with that! - as long as there's no emotional bond - Not responding to someone's first or second message Is completely OK! If people think they wouldn't get along with a stranger - is there a reason to start a conversation? I don't think so. I can't stand being ignored after days or weeks of daily conversations and seeing people changing priorities over time.. but that's something different - something I don't want to go through ever again for real. If I'm really interested in someone's message it's impossible to hear from me "I'm too busy" because I know myself and If I had no time for others - I wouldn't be here. I don't want to pretend someone I'm not and always try to find some cheap excuses to avoid others. (unlike most people who don't want to talk to others)
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• Don’t ask me “Can you tell me something about yourself?” If you really want to get to know me - you can ask me questions :) I'm an open book.
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• It would be better If you guys were into emojis - like me - to describe your emotions In text messages. Two emojis - 🙂 and 🙁 are completely enough! I just don't like emotionless conversations.I also don't like it when people say "yeah" or yea"as it sounds dismissively. First impression Is everything to me! I want to see your kindness even in a text message - Emojis are very helpful to express your emotions.I don't want to meet people who say "crying Is a weakness" - It's OK to cry even If you're a guy!
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• I want to talk on reddit first (just to make sure If I'd get along with you) before moving to Discord or some other app
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• I would rather talk to a homebody - not another person who always has something to do as people who are very busy don't even have time for daily conversations
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• If you're another person interested only in "childish conversations" such as "HEYOOO! I'M BORED! Ya like Pizza or cheese? xDDDD 🤣" I'm begging you! Don't send me a message.I'm not a child anymore and such messages don't make me smile or laugh.I'm looking for someone interested In serious discussions - not another person just seeking some entertainment out of boredom . Conversations with sarcastic undertones (even when It comes to some emojis such as 🤣😂) are not for me. Your typing style matters to me! Why? when It comes to online conversations with someone new - It's not always possible to know If someone Is laughing at you.. or with you. Let me tell you something else! Jokes about cancer, disabilities and death are UNACCEPTABLE to me. If you find joy In someone else's misfortune you are not a person I want to know.
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• Time response matters to me a lot! I would never ask anyone to be online all day long and I'm NOT asking any of you for any instant messaging as I'm someone who would rather wait an hour or two to receive a proper response instead of some short and pointless messages but I'm interested only in daily conversations and I don't want to wait any longer than 6 hours to get a message from you.I don't need unbelievably long messages either! Messages as long as the second paragraph of my post - are completely enough. If you like longer messages? you can send me a longer message, but If you want to send me one word or one sentence as a response to my post - don't expect a reaction from me. I don't want to come across as rude - I just don't want to waste your time
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• I'm strongly AGAINST picking on people you don't even want to chat with - and making fun of them! I can't stand people who criticize others publicly or make fun of them! (only because they disagree with someone they don't even know) There's no place In my life for someone using Reddit, to hurt other people
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• I'm not into foul language and I definitely don't want to talk to people who swear a lot...
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• I want to meet assertive people who know what they want and always stand up for their friends
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• I want to meet someone willing to call me In the future, someone spontaneously sending me pictures of animals or food, et cetera. I want more than just text conversations.. 🌻
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Why can’t you see any of my hobbies listed down below? Because what really matters to me is..who you are (If you’re honest, talkative ,understanding, caring and trustworthy – for example) just simply – It matters to me what you’re like! not what you like.Don’t get me wrong – you can tell me what your hobbies are but from my point of view - people's hobbies are important - If you want to find a gaming buddy or If you want to meet someone to hang out with in real life and..go bowling for example.What most people seem to care about are other people's passions – I don’t. I get along with other people despite having completely different hobbies but I absolutely don’t get along with people way different than me (different expectations and outlook on life – way different sense of humor or personality traits – It’s just an example) It doesn't make ANY DIFFERENCE to me If you're a gamer or? Someone interested in photography! It doesn't make any difference - > as long as you're talkative and kind and If you also want to find someone willing to stay in your life..for good - But If you're into small talk and all you want is to...type and receive super short messages or If you're here only because you're bored and don't know what to do + If you're a very sarcastic person - I'm definitely not for you! I don't get along with overly sarcastic people turning everything into a joke. Friendships should be natural – not forced. I wouldn't get along with people who laugh at everything.. In my opinion most people are way too sarcastic.. It's quite sad... Sarcasm can also be another form of passive-aggressive behavior.
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People who want to be to friends should feel comfortable and have something in common. No - not necessarily a similar taste in music or movies but something else..Most friendships don't fizzle out because of people not having the same hobbies but..because they just simply have different expectations when It comes to something important.I'm not here out of boredom and trust me - I'm not here to meet as many people as possible.I choose quality over quantity.I highly value myself and my time & Sometimes one person but a person who makes you feel comfortable and understood - is more than enough :) We ALL can choose what kind of people we’d like to talk to and maybe even become really good friends with and I? I don’t want anyone to be disappointed.We all have some expectations after all.I know that people don't have to talk as often as possible in order to become friends but I'm interested only in daily conversations. If you really need someone to talk to due to loneliness and If you have time to talk to me daily (throughout the day and maybe even night) I always make time for others.I'm literally always available.I could even stay up all night long only to talk to someone important to me. I’m ready to commit but only If there’s some chemistry between me and someone else.I don’t do anything forcefully.
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If you want to talk to me tell me your story - tell me why you're here, what kind of friend would you like to meet :) Et cetera.Such messages are way more interesting to me than...someone's long list of hobbies. I know! It's unusual on reddit but I don't make friends based on hobbies..I want to meet someone with the same mindset as mine to finally feel understood and get close to someone new. You can share your problems with me - I absolutely don't mind "complaining" as I've been through a lot in my life.What do people usually tell you when you tell them that something's wrong? "Don't complain" or "Life's not over yet - one day you'll be happy" or "There are worse situations than yours" and..obviously "Find a therapist" Life's not a fairytale and sometimes things don't go as planned.Emotions shouldn't be bottled up.I'm sick of people always telling others "everything's gonna be ok" move on " & more..Trust me people - not everyone wants to hear "Just believe in yourself and everything's gonna be ok" Some people take it as reassurance - but others? They would rather hear something different 🙁Imagine being told that things will be okay, only for them to get worse..Do you guys know why telling someone "everything's gonna be ok" Is wrong? Because you can't see the future.
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You can't guarantee others that one day they'll finally be happy + when It comes to social interactions - We're responsible only for ourselves - not others & as you guys know people let us down quite often (sometimes even when there's no reason) so instead of telling people how they should move on, forget everything and be happy or asking them to find a therapist - be there for them! Always be willing to listen to them If you really like them or want to get to know them & don't suggest everyone in a tough situation to find a therapist because even the best therapist won't ever replace a true friend + It's quite normal to be disappointed If people always do something to hurt you. Sharing your hardships with other people in a very similar situation or exactly the same one - is VERY helpful If the other person understands you & wants to start all over by just letting it all out! Feeling emotional support instead of always hearing some "positive quotes" or someone saying "Stop complaining let's talk about something else - Is very important! "Everyone needs a shoulder to cry on. I appreciate sensitive people who always try to understand others. If after hearing a sad story all you want to say is "forget the past and move on" you're not for me. It's important to be a good listener and provide emotional support to others
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Please - If you're a completely different person than the described type of person I'm looking for (If you love abbreviations,If you don't need a stable friendship, If you're sarcastic and quiet) or If you simply disagree with my post - don't force yourself to send me a message.I want my new potential friendship to be natural which is why I want you to contact me only If your needs are the same - I don't want you to pretend someone you're not - only to please me - Pretending to be someone you're not - is the worst.I want to finally be happy again & find someone "always" wanting to talk - sending me random pictures throughout the day - food pictures or pictures of some animals. What is the most important to me? I want to find people who value online friendships as much as they would value real life ones as there's another human being on the other side
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No comments please.Only Private messages and chat requests 🌺
I know It's possible to meet people with exactly the same expectations as mine but It's just not easy because most people are Interested In temporary and entertaining conversations. People like me are just "different" I really want to finally find someone who loves emojis as much as I do.. someone who loves sweet, warm and serious discussions at the same time. Emojis really do - change conversations 😊

I am not the OOP. The OOP is u/themachucajr posting in Marriage
Ongoing as per OOP
1 updates - Long
Original - 7th May 2024
Update - 15th May 2024
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My wife friend-zoned me and wants a platonic “companionship”
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My wife (35f) and I (35m) have been married for 15 years and we've been together for 20 years. We have two kids (12,14) we absolutely adore and work tirelessly to provide the best possible life for them. For the past 3 years, things have been somewhat bumpy. I understand that our kids are at an age where they require a ton of our attention and resources with school, band, club sports, and other extracurriculars and I'm aware of the physical and emotional toll that can have on marriages.
However, for these past 3 years, my wife and I have had very little intimacy and very little sex and we've been trying very hard to work on that aspect of our relationship. This past year has been the most difficult and by far the darkest year in our marriage. We didn’t talk very much, we essentially became roommates coparenting our kids under the same roof. It was very depressing and very demoralizing. It was to the point where we began contemplating divorce and it became very dark and gloomy in the household because of that.
We began seeking help with both individualized therapy and couples therapy and it seems to have helped some. Little by little we started to get along and started to have deeper conversations about what our marriage looks like and what we would love for it to look like. This is where it gets tough. As time passed, my wife started to tell me she no longer was "in love with me" and that she only saw me as a "best friend." That she only loved me in a very platonic way, and this was one of the main reasons she didn’t have any desire for intimacy and let alone sex.
This was very shocking to me and quite frankly, I was devastated. I because angry and depressed and I couldn't fathom the thought that I was no longer wanted or desired by the person I felt completely in love with. Things began to deteriorate again and not long after, we were back to square one. I sat down with her one afternoon and had a heart to heart and began to ask questions about where the root of this problem lies, and her answer was "I don't know" and that "I have built up resentment towards you but I don't know where it stems from." As you can imagine, this provides very little to no insight into how to approach this.
I'm puzzled, I'm frustrated and I do not know what to do at this point. Currently, we've arrived at a place where she says that she has no sex drive and no desire for intimacy or connection. She says that all she wants is simply "companionship" which basically means our coparenting roommate dynamic. I asked her what I could possibly do or what is it about me that is so unattractive or undesirable and she her response is always "I don't know." She stated that she does "love" me but its not the same. That she has been feeling disconnected for years and that our marriage just takes up too much work. Her focus is only the children for now and that my coparenting contributions are "meaningful" to her in our home.
I'm at a loss and I'm mainly venting about my frustration. It's tough to realize that the person you love has no feelings for you. I feel like at this point I'm only here to contribute financially and as a parent. I feel like what she means with "companionship" is that she's comfortable with the convenience of having a good father for our kids and my financial contribution to the household.
In regard to intimacy and/or sex, she basically told me that its not something she’s interested in or wants at this time. She mentioned that the only way to get to a point for any of that is to be intoxicated which o believe is incredibly awful and very wrong. I told her I do not think forcing herself to have sex or be intimate by drinking or smoking is good and I declined to be a part of that which to my surprise, it upset her and made her more distant.
We're both extremely honest and transparent. We've never cheated on each other and we are always free to look through each others phones, emails, socials, etc. and we hardly ever do. I asked her if there was someone else and she declined. Honestly, I believe her. We then peacefully went through each other’s things and as expected, it was clean. We've always been very forward, even with the hard topics so I don't smell nor feel any foul play or infidelity.
Am I wrong for declining to only be intimate or have sex when she’s intoxicated? (I'm firm on my stance of not partaking in this "only when I'm high or drunk" sex because it doesn’t sit well with me.) I do not know how to help our situation and I'm starting to become a bit anxious and desperate. We're both fairly young and healthy individuals and good looking. We both have good standing careers and are good parents. I'm just not sure how our lives could have driven us to this point. I'd love some outside perspective on this matter and some insight on how to address something like this. It feels so awful to be unwanted and undesired by my own spouse. I hate it.
tl;dr: My wife of 15+ years is no longer in love with me and doesn’t know way and now says she can only have sex while intoxicated or I need to settle for a platonic sexless marriage and she doesn’t know why that is but it is what it is and I'm in need of insight or advice.
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Comments
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Warthog__
From your comment history it looks like you are Swingers? If so, I would think that would be relevant information to consider.

OOP: We did some swinging in the past. That was fun for some time. We mutually decided to stop doing it and we have established it’s not the case. When we were swinging however, our marriage seemed to be in a good place. This IS something we did disclose with our couple therapist and made sure to include it to make sure we’re not neglecting an obvious potential issue.
I will say, I did ask my wife if what she experienced during swinging is something that is affecting her view on our relationship and she said it wasn’t. Our swinging experience was always together and it was very sex driven. Nothing really emotional or “poly”. Truth is, I have to believe her at her word. I have no reason to distrust her. To date, she’s always been very forward and never afraid of dealing things head on. No matter how painful.

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failedopportunities
It’s an obvious potential issue bro… wether it be she’s enjoying herself a side piece and wants nothing to do with you in that manner anymore. Or, she just went along with you on the swinging and never wanted to do it in the first place. Hence brings resentment. Regardless, should have been included in the initial post.

OOP: Swinging was her idea. Not mine. But I suppose I should have included it but I honestly believe her on it not being an issue. I don’t have any reason to distrust her. Maybe it’s something she has to accept with her therapist or our couples therapist. Can’t really approach that with a solution if she doesn’t think it was a problem. IDK

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BigIronBruce

She says that all she wants is simply "companionship" which basically means our coparenting roommate dynamic.

That's only a marriage if you both agree it is. You're hoping she's going to wake up one day and feel different but she's basically said that's not going to happen and doesn't want to figure out why she feels that way. It seems like you tried several different ways to get to the bottom of it and she's either deflected or is being honest that she's not in love with you.

Am I wrong for declining to only be intimate or have sex when she’s intoxicated?

I wouldn't do this, either, if that makes you feel better.
Will she be your best friend if you live elsewhere and have a relationship with somebody in love you. Probably not. Which makes the whole "best friend" speech feel like self-deception on her part.
I won't lie, if it were me, I'd get a divorce. She doesn't seem willing to do the work to fix the marriage and you can't fix it alone. She might promise to fix it or beg you not to but you need to follow your gut as to whether she actually can or will fix it. She's serious that she wants you to stick around but not necessarily as her husband.
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OOP: A very hard truth to accept here. Thank you

Interesting-Tip-4850

"I’m ensure I do everything possible to mend our marriage to ensure my own peace of mind and excite knowing I did everything I could."

you may still concider 180 method, to protect yourself and perhaps in the same time the reality that the ship is leaving may start to change your wifes perspective. If that doesnt what else would.

OOP: Can you elaborate on the “180 Method”?

Interesting-Tip-4850
Basically withold from any unnecesary interactions and affection. This is from an infidelity forum, but principles are the same https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/the-simplified-180/

OOP: I bookmarked this. I’m heavily considering this.

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Update - 8 days later
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I wanted to give you guys an update of how the therapy session with my wife went this week. Not sure if this is helpful or not but I took many of the responses/comments/suggestions from my initial post and put together some things I wanted to discuss with our couples therapist to help us navigate some of the core issues that may be affecting this situation.
One of the main things that is the "buzz word" of this has been the term "resentment" and it has been really eating me up inside knowing my wife keeps telling me she doesn't know why she's resentful or doesn't know why this is affecting her emotionally/mentally. I brought this up with our therapist once again and resurfaced the conversation about being married for so long (15yrs) and being together since we ere 14yrs old. Our long history of growing up and how having children when she was 19yrs old (me 20) significantly changed the trajectory of our lives.
We experience severe poverty and many hardships in the process and we essentially had zero social life for the past 10 years because we were so busy raising babies (2 kids now ages 12 &14). She followed up with tons of questions directly mostly at my wife about her feelings towards this and 90% of the responses were very "our kids" focused. It definitely felt like she was afraid of saying "yes it sucked" because she would feel guilt or shame because it would imply she regrets the kids.
I mentioned this in the session and the therapist encouraged her to look at this outside of the lens of being a mother and to try to view it a bit more selfishly and individually and it was very eye opening. My wife mentioned that she was very frustrated with the fact that we did miss out on many things in life. She also was very clear in saying "I do not think I missed out on other partners or dating or partying but I certainly lost all my friends." This was huge because one of the big pieces that has caused a strain in our lives is how silo'd and isolated we've been (again busy raising kids). I followed up by reminding her that it's important to have good friends and to make time for herself and her friendships.
For the past 3+ years, we've had multiple conversations about friends and how it is important to have them in life. Specially when you have similar peers that can help in many areas of life that perhaps we have no experience navigating and even simply for enjoyment. It has always been something my wife avoids, even though she's always been someone who needs that external stimuli. The main reason for her not investing in friends or even herself has always been "the kids." Like I mentioned earlier in this post, 90% of the answers have to relate to "the kids" to some degree.
At this point in our session I started to feel like there was a common denominator (the kids) in most of the frustrations and problems she was experiencing. So I simply asked her "Do you think you may be upset at me because I'm responsible for these kids in the sense that I got you pregnant so young?" I wasn't ready but she said that she was upset at me for that. She also followed up with the fact that she knows that's unreasonable because it "takes 2 to tango." I did feel like it was progress because it kind of gave us something to work on and help alleviate some of these "burdens" so we agreed to invest more time in nurturing good friendships both together and individually.
Towards the end of the session, we began to discuss what actionable items we would take from this session. At this point, it was still all very ambiguous and blurry as to what the outcomes were. I was very direct and very forward in asking my wife what her plan is moving forward. (NOTE: I had decided prior to the session that should my wife say the same thing about being a coparenting roommate that I would take the 180 approach and essentially do me) She started basically saying the same thing, that she doesn't have any desire to be intimate or sexual with me as of now and that she loves me immensely and she feels bad for not being there for me (as mentioned in my first post).
I also brought up the brief swinging that happened, to which for the 50th time said it wasn't a problem. I agree with her on this. This was something that was a "mechanical" approach for a solution to a problem that was very much in existent when we tried this. We (both) really have no issue to this. We know it happened, we tried it and mutually stopped and turned the page.
I also brought up other life events that may cause resentment and really we ended up not getting anywhere else as far as the root for resentment which was discouraging.
I then basically expressed to my wife that I will not be ok with that arrangement. I told her that I've really done everything I can and that this issue really has reached a point where it has nothing to do with me or require me to do anything that I'm currently not doing. I was very direct and saying that I will not be accepting this dynamic and that I need to be with someone who is actively involved in our marriage, works towards resolutions and is very much interested in maintaining an active intimacy and sexual relationship.
I expressed how I am not going to be a "convenience" and that there was more to life than being roommates and coparents. I made sure she knows I love her dearly and that I do want this to work for the better. I also told her that I'm fully committed to this marriage so long as she is as well and that is she wasn't, its ok, however I will not be a part of something where these efforts are not reciprocated. I told her I have no plans of leaving, and I do not want a divorce, however, I made it clear that if this dynamic continues that divorce will be the only outcome.
Of course tears were involved and it was a very bleak and sad ending to the session. Still nothing was said and I walked out very discouraged and very determined to start working on the 180 as soon as we left the room. It's painful and very difficult because much of the 180 requires you to be very short and cold and transactional. The saddest part is realizing, this dynamic already is very cold and transactional.
Here is where it gets VERY interesting. I started working on implementing many of the 180 recommendations that same day. I mentioned to my wife that, "hey, things are going to be a bit different moving forward. I'm going to honor her roommate/coparent dynamic without reproach and that it should be no mistake that I am not happy here and I am never going to be ok with it but I am done working on it if she wasn't going to work on it."
She agreed and went to bed. I started to build distance and started to basically focus on myself. Very short and transactional. She asked for help on some of her personal things to which I declined and it really shocked her. She was upset saying I was being petulant. I explained to her that, she is now fully in charge of her own life and her own issues.
We didn't talk all day and we only spoke when necessary. Few days I keep this going and she's very visibly upset and stressed. I typically react to that with gestures of help or nurturing but I didn't this time. That night she was crying telling me she's stressed and she things something is wrong with me because I'm "indifferent." I simply listened, then I told her that this is the dynamic she proposed and that I'm simply (much like her) taking care of myself and focusing on myself.
I'm not going to lie, it has been VERY hard to be cold and distant because as I mentioned before, I love her and I wish I could hold her and love on her. However, I know this is somewhat manipulative in a way just to get her way and still keep me in the friendzone. So I've been staying the course.
We're now going on a week of this 180 and let just say, there has been MANY changes on her side. I think she is starting to realize there is more to me than just "friends and coparenting." I sent her a text a few days ago essentially itemizing bills and separating the financial responsibilities 50/50 and SHE LOST HER SHIT. She basically told me it was "out of left field" to which I responded "hey, friends go in 50/50 and as your friend I expect nothing less."
This was very eye opening because it gave me a glimpse of I'm really taken for granted and how her level of comfort and convenience at my expense is really overlooked. I pushed through anyways and basically told her that this is the new dynamic she asked for and that its still a "bargain" because she would have to be 100% if she was on her own.
I'll wrap up with this. While the 180 has been working in many different areas, I am still very much sad about the overall situation. There have been MANY eye opening statements being said and realization that have not been pleasant to encounter. It has also sparked new energy and new efforts on her side as well. She's definitely seeking to talk to me more often and while its hard to turn down, I hope if things improve, this continues to happen.
I've also noticed that she's making more time for herself aside from being a mom which is HUGE because she pretty much neglected herself for years. I'm very pleased seeing her be more herself. My hope is that as we work on ourselves, the marriage improves. There really is no telling at this point where this will go. We are very much cordial and amicable even to this day and that's a very good sign.
Boundaries are set and expectations are very clear and I feel that no matter the outcome, I will be at peace with everything that has been done. We're still going to continue the couples therapist until we either rekindle our marriage or end up in divorce. I feel like having this nonbiased third party really helps as a witness and as a guide through this. No matter what I will always love my wife, however, I will not participate in a sexless, intimacy less marriage because we both deserve better.
Thank you all for all the kind words and recommendations and feedback. This will be my last post on this topic and I wish you all the best.
TL;DR: My wife friend-zoned me wants to just coparent at my expense but I started the 180 method to try and find a solution because she doesn't want to work on us which seems to be working on getting her out of her rut and helping me discover more about how she feels. Also, therapy is paramount and highly recommend to all couples.
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Comments
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Complete-Old-1960
Bottom line and not to be brutal, but there is one thing you don't have infinite amount of, is TIME. This has to be resolved in a timely manner. It takes 2 to be in love and to be loved, and u only have ½ of the equation. You need to put a time limit on you being the good guy and think of you and your future. Look hope it works out for you, but listening to what you are going through and what you could be in for you can still be a good father but also be a great husband to another wife if you find that special person again.

OOP: Definitely. I think this “soft ultimatum” (180 method) has been very eye opening. I’m definitely hoping for a rekindling of our marriage but I’m also bracing for divorce. I agree on a timeline and I’ve decided on a timeline for myself privately. I don’t want to give her a timeline because I want to reduce the pressure, however, after 1-2 yrs of things don’t improve, it won’t be shocking or a surprise if we split. I think 1-2yrs is more than reasonable.

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shes_a_killer
I have to agree with this, simply because at some point, the person who has gone 180 and is waiting for the other person to decide will begin to wonder, "Wow, they're really taking their time coming around to me...did they love me at all? If they ever appreciated and cared for me, why would they keep me waiting and neglecting me for so long?" Except, in my case, it had more to do with the other person being stubborn and unable to admit their faults.

OOP: I understand what you mean. I don’t think I’ll ever doubt she loved me at all. I’m certain she did and I’m certain she still does. I know it sounds crazy and I’m not at all infatuated or blinded by love. Love is far more than the intimacy and sex we’re lacking.

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RandyPan_theGoatBoy
I think it’s interesting that in the comments of your original post you said you didn’t think she was taking you for granted but you came to realize she absolutely was. Can you give some more details on what the 180 method is?

OOP: Yeah, I definitely felt this way. But with this 180 method it’s happening right in front of my eyes. Actual actions and reactions taking place that clearly demonstrate that she is taking me for granted. She actually see this as well. It’s evident she’s thinking about this heavily based on her demeanor and her behavior.
Here’s what I used as a guide:
https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/the-simplified-180/

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I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.
Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

I am not the OOP. The OOP is u/evastraea posting in AmItheAsshole
Concluded as per OOP
2 updates - Long
Original - 21st June 2022
Update1 - 27th June 2022
Comment from OOP - 27th June 2022
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AITA for not giving my adopted daughter a stuffed animal for her high school graduation, when both of my biological children got one?
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I [49f] have 3 children, [22f], [19m], and [18f]. My oldest are my biological children from a previous marriage, and my youngest I became a mother to at the age of 2 when I married her widowed father. She has only ever called me mom, and I officially adopted her at the age of 12.
Now on to the issue with the stuffed animals: years and years ago, when I was only 20 and in college, I worked at a children's museum. I adored the job and working with kids, and had the idea to buy stuffed animals from the gift shop to be my future-kids' first stuffed animals whenever they were born. I had gotten a stuffed bear at birth that was very special to me growing up, and on my 18th birthday my parents gifted me a duplicate they had bought way back when and kept for me all these years. I found this so special, and wanted to do something similar, so I bought 6 stuffed animals from the museum's gift shop; 3 to be given at birth, and 3 duplicates. I had no idea at the time how many kids I would have, but I knew I wasn't planning on having more than 3, so I didn't get any more.
My first daughter received the stuffed animal I selected for her while pregnant. Then, between her birth and the birth of my son, I miscarried. The experience was deeply traumatic for me, especially as I miscarried in my second trimester, and I buried my baby with the stuffed animal they would have gotten. I kept the duplicate to for comfort, to cuddle and hold.
Finally, my son was born and received the last of the stuffed animals I had set aside so many years ago. Now, here's where I may be the asshole. For both my daughter and son's high school graduations, I surprised them with the duplicates, for them to take to college with them and compare against the stuffies they've been loving on their whole lives. Both were very moved by this, and took both (original and duplicate) to school with them.
My youngest, however, never received a stuffed animal, and so when her graduation celebration rolled along I had no duplicate to gift her. I watched her unpack all her gifts, and her face fall when she got to the last one and realized. She didn't really say anything, just got this super sad look on her face, and excused herself to her room. I followed to ask what was wrong, but she said she didn't want to talk to me, so her father went in instead.
According to him she cried to him that she didn't feel as loved by me as her siblings, and as much a part of the family - the unwrapping of her siblings' stuffed animals were very emotional events, and she had had the expectation she'd be getting the same. In hindsight I could have easily done something similar for her whenever I first came into her life, even if it wouldn't have been from the museum, but I just didn't think of it. She has been cold to me this entire last week, and I feel so terrible, I've offered to take her out to a special dinner the two of us to make amends but she turned me down. AITA?
Edit: the votes are in, and I am definitively TA. Many of you are suggesting that I get her a stuffie that reminds me of her, or maybe to get her two so she can continue the tradition with her future kids. But I think what I will do is gift her the duplicate my parents gifted me of my special plush bear I received at birth, which is one of my most treasured possessions, and deeply meaningful to me. Thank you all for the advice, it is genuinely appreciated.
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Comments
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Mrs-Addams
YTA. Nothing quite says “you’re not like my other kids” like leaving her out of a family tradition when her turn came. I’m sorry about the loss of your baby and understand why you kept that stuffed animal for your own, however, the tradition could have started with her when she joined your family at age 2, or when you formally adopted her.
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SmartassMouth89
YTA your kids grew up together and for years you never once thought to go and buy two stuffed animals for your adoptive daughter?
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QueenKeisha
Right? In 16 years, and after giving 2 other bears away, she didn’t once think, hey what about youngest?
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SmartassMouth89
Right? She liked the daughters dad enough to marry him but didn’t think that it would be a good idea to give the two year old a stuffie at the wedding?
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Update - 6 days later
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Long story short: my daughter found my reddit post, and came to me in tears apologizing for her reaction. This was NOT my expectation, and I assured her she had nothing to apologize for, as I had been in the wrong. We had a long discussion about the situation, our feelings, and how to move forward from this, and although I know she is still hurt we are on our way to making amends.
Long story long: so what even happened? As I've now discovered, my daughter loves browsing AITA. She stumbled on my post, and after reading it in it's entirety, as well as a good chunk of the comments (all of mine, and many left by other redditors) she came to me in tears apologizing for her reaction.
She sobbed in my arms that she didn't want this to be the end of our relationship, and that she was sorry, and wanted to enjoy this last summer together. I held her and assured her she had nothing to apologize for, and apologized myself (I did shed a little tear, but tried to keep my emotions in check as I did not want the burden of comforting me to be on her).
What followed was a productive but incredibly emotionally vulnerable conversation, the details of which I will not disclose entirely. She has been going through a rough time, and my impression (I could be wrong) is that the lack of a stuffie at graduation was a catalyst for bigger emotions. She did take me up on my offer to take her to dinner, and I've now booked a reservation at a nice restaurant she has been wanting to go to for a while.
And last night we cooked her favorite dinner together, which gave us an opportunity to smooth things over somewhat. We have not yet broached the subject of me intending to gift her my own plush, except for very briefly (she insisted I didn't have to, and seemed to feel a lot of guilt), but I still plan to. I just feel it would be best to wait until things have cooled down.
And if she truly doesn't feel comfortable taking it, I plan on getting a bear of a similar look to be its "little brother" for her to take care of. That's the update, obviously things have not magically mended overnight, but we are finally on-track to a resolution. Many thanks to all that left advice, and please check the comments below for clarification on many questions asked before passing any judgements (I far exceeded the allowed word limit, and have instead pasted much of what I intended to say here below).
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Comments
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aroundincircles
Read your first post and this one, and I feel it from both sides. My wife and I recently adopted a bio niece (13 yo this week) and she welcomes us as dad and mom, but we've run into a number of times where the kids will pull out something from a trip we went on, or an activity we did, etc years before she was ever in our lives, and she'll go "why don't you have one of those for me"? It's really hard, some of these things are simply impossible for us to get, and/or would cost us thousands of dollars (when We already spent 30+k on custody/adoption lawyers and court fees).
She also didn't even bring anything with her when we picked her up, she wasn't even allowed to bring a change of underwear. It's been something that we've had to deal with in counselling that her life with us didn't start till she was almost 12, and we have to begin fresh from there, we cannot turn back the clock and give her back an entire childhood she missed. Like when we went camping for the first time with her, and we were getting things out to visually see what we needed to get from the store and we pulled out the kid's sleeping bags, and she was like "where is mine", and the fact that we didn't already have one hurt her.
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Glum_Hamster_1076
And that doesn’t make you an ahole. I hope no one will call you one. Situations change and you’re not always able to “make up for it”. OP didn’t do this to hurt her daughter and it’s weird people are painting it that way. I hope things are going well with you all in therapy and your family is making great strides together.
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Comment from OOP
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When I initially posted to AITA, I was prepared to face judgment, and open to constructive criticism. However, while I did receive many constructive comments, which I truly appreciate, I received many more that were hateful and unconstructive, and I will admit, I did get defensive. But the attitude I took on in the comments is not one I brought into my interactions with my daughter; please understand that I did not throw in her face all the kind things I feel I've done for her over the years, but was rather attempting to contextualize our relationship for strangers who've never met us.
And before passing any further judgment in the comments, please check below for answers to a lot of the questions asked in the original thread. To answer a few questions: why did I not adopt her until 10 years after I came into her life? Because I never sought to force myself on her as her mother, and waited until she could give me explicit consent to adopt her. Why did I never buy her any stuffed animals? I did. I bought her many when I first met her, as well as one for her official adoption day, and every adoption day celebration since.
And I did technically gift her a stuffed animal for her graduation, too, it was just a plush of her college's mascot rather than a duplicate of a treasured plush from her childhood. So why did I not buy her a duplicate at any point over the last 16 years? I did not think to until my oldest graduated and received hers, by which point I (mistakenly) felt the significance would be lost. Both my bio kids received stuffies saved for them for decades, whereas she would have received one saved for only four years. Instead I tried to honor her in other ways, such as (as I described in the comments) crafting her a cookbook of generational family recipes that I illustrated by hand, because she is her own individual.
Truthfully, while I understand the sentiments expressed in the comments, I don't believe recognizing differences is inherently a bad thing. The duplicate stuffies my bio kids received were duplicates of the very first stuffies to ever be in their crib with them. Their receival of them was a birth event, and I did not give birth to my youngest. But that does not mean I love her any less, or that she is any less my daughter.
We have established our own traditions honoring her entry into my life, such as our celebration of her adoption day, and while I realize I could have handled the stuffie situation better, I do believe it was an honest mistake. But how could I not include her in a treasured family tradition, knowing how important it is (especially as an adopted child) to feel a part of the family? Because I truly did not realize this one specific tradition meant as much to her as it did.
I have strived to include her in as many family traditions as possible throughout the years. As I mentioned in the comments, she speaks German because I taught and spoke it to her growing up, even though her father does not. We celebrate German traditions, such as baking countless batches of German Christmas cookies together every year (just the two of us, neither of her siblings have any interest in baking), which is something I grew up doing with my mom, and every year it is quality time I deeply treasure.
For her 16th birthday I gifted her the locket my mother gifted me on my 16th, which she'd been gifted by my grandmother before me - this actually upset my eldest daughter, who had not received such a hand-me-down, and this is just to name a few. So given the fact that she has on occasion received and taken part in traditions my other kids have been excluded from, I did not think the stuffie would carry as much weight as it ultimately did. But isn't her reaction an indication that there are larger issues at play, and that she has likely felt this way for a while? Perhaps.
I am not a perfect adoptive mother, and have never claimed to be. And I can not see inside her brain, so I cannot know her true feelings. But my sense - and I may be wrong! - is that the larger issues at play relate back to her bio mom, which is something she expressed to me in our conversation. I did not disclose this in my original post, because I did not believe it to be relevant, and it is also a painful topic within our family, but her bio mom committed suicide whilst in the thick of post-partum depression. This has obviously impacted my daughter, who has been in and out of therapy for years grappling with feelings of loss, and guilt.
She is highly sensitive to feeling isolated within our family unit, which is something I should have taken into account in this situation, and I own that. I realize this is a huge hunk of text, but given the visceral reaction many had, I felt it was important to cover my bases. Come to whatever conclusions you all like, I will likely not be checking the comments for my own mental health, and the wellbeing of my family. To all who left genuine advice, even if that meant calling me an asshole, I truly do appreciate you. And to all who said hateful things, especially in regard to the loss of my baby, please consider the impact your words may have moving forward
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Comments
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Rice-Correct
You’re a good mom. It might’ve been a mistake not to gift her the plush, and it might, as you said, just have been indicative of some larger big emotions going on, as graduating is a HUGE milestone and going to college is an enormous life change that is very rewarding and exciting, but also stressful. But it sounds like you’ve been amazing about creating beautiful memories and experiences together! I think at some point, the plush will be a distant memory. From your post, it seems pretty clear you DO have a good relationship, and you’re a caring, empathetic parent. ENJOY your summer together, Mama!
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sharraleigh
Don't take the hateful comments personally; it's easy to be cruel online to a faceless stranger. Also, your original post didn't include all this info (it would've been impossible to anyway), and therefore lacked a lot of the back story and nuance that frankly, a real person's life experience encompasses. Your daughter probably saw your post and realized how her reaction hurt your feelings and read the hateful comments and felt bad for you. It sounds like you have a great relationship and you're lucky to have each other in your lives!
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I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.
Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

I have been with my husband for almost 7 years, married for 3. We have 2 young toddlers (we chose the 2 under 2 life), and this definitely plays a huge role in our situation. I love him so much, he's so kind and genuine, but we have a lot going on and it's honestly overwhelming.
TLDR: I feel extremely unfulfilled in my marriage and am worried we are better off divorced. We have no sexual chemistry, no intimacy or passion, I basically have to mother him into doing anything around the house and have to hold his hand when he has hard conversations with his parents. He's a great dad to our kids, but he isn't a great husband to me and I'm worried we're headed to a divorce.
Before we got married, we had so much fun together. We went on so many dates and were always out and about doing something fun and exciting. We were very much attracted to each other, but the sex was never that great. I was very experienced and had a lot of sexual partners in my college years, and he could probably count his on one hand. I always thought it was a work in progress and was willing to continue on with him because I cared for him in so many other ways than just being sexually compatible that I found it refreshing. I had never been with anyone where I didn't care about how our sex was because they were so great as a person.
It didn't take long for me to notice he never went down on me. He did it once and his eyes were so red and I was so embarrassed but moved on. The second time, same thing! And yes, I care a ton about my hygiene so I know it's not that. I confronted him about it and he told me he just didn't know how to do it really and isn't good at it and told me he would do some research (which he never did). One day we were talking oral sex and how I loved going down on him but didn't think he did to me, and that I wanted him to WANT to do it and that I want him to learn to love my downstairs. He said "well I don't have to LOVE it", and I sincerely feel like that was foreshadowing into our entire relationship because those were the only 2 times he has ever done it.
Our sex life is pretty lame. We probably had sex once a month before getting married, and now it's basically 2-3 times a year it seems like. I've always been unfulfilled with how often this happens and doing it this infrequent makes it really hard to get in the groove. So each time we do have sex, it's pretty rocky and awkward, and while I usually am pretty confident in the bedroom I am absolutely self conscious and worried about how he liked it or how it went for him. I know we lack that passion and sexual chemistry, and this has always bothered me, but I always thought we could create that as time went on (still thinking the inexperience played a factor here).
Right before we get married we move in with his parents for several months while our house was being build which ended up being the worst decision. I discovered how much my MIL gossips, how opinionated my MIL and FIL were and it created a lot of issues with my husband and I. I'd hear my MIL talking badly about other family members or saying something really strange to me and would bring it up to him and he always gave her the benefit of the doubt saying she means well, or that he knows she'd never mean something in a certain way, etc. We ended up having major trust issues with them and needing to take lots of breaks from them when we got pregnant with our first (and had moved into our house), which lead to even more trust issues when our first was born. They were extremely defensive with each and every boundary/ask/rule/etc regarding our LO we'd bring up and there was always something negative with every interaction I would have with them. It was so exhausting, and my husband would always give them the benefit of the doubt. It really weighed on me as time went on and this continued. I realized that his gut reaction was always to prioritize his parents comfort over mine, whether that meant talking to them in a certain way so they wouldn't have a reaction, not say anything at all, or contort what they were saying in order to make it seem less bad. This went on through my second pregnancy as well.
I basically had to teach him how to have boundaries with his parents. We would have so many damn conversations about it and it was a lot of hand holding which I was understanding with. It was a lengthy process and we're getting to a better point with that aspect, as in, he can kind of hold his own and stand up for our family, but the amount of resentment I have towards him for feeling so isolated all the time over the years is crazy.
In addition to this, I basically mother him at home and I hate it. He can't do anything without being told! He doesn't help out around the house unless I make him or ask him 100 times, he does 0 deep cleaning or projects. I feel like the man of the house. It has gotten to the point where I have to clean the entire house every single day, and before doing so I get so mad at him for his lack of assistance with it when he's at home. I am a SAHM now and recognize this as my "job" while he is at work, and then we share responsibilities when he gets home - or at least we agree that this is how it should be.
Back to our relationship and lack of intimacy; I know that after having kids things can really take a turn for the worse but I am really struggling to see the light at the end of the tunnel and am worried that HE married the wrong woman. I've always understood men to do anything for someone they like/love and I just don't feel it from him. He doesn't compliment me ever, he doesn't take any pictures of me which hurts considering I have 500,000 of him and the kids on my phone. When I confront him about basically nagging him and his lack of initiation or effort for literally any type of intimacy, it's always that he doesn't know why he's like that and that he wants to change and that he promises he'll make more efforts but never does. It's like he manipulates me by saying he wants to change and he wants the same things I do, but then does nothing. Just like how he did absolutely no research on oral sex/sex in general before getting married.
Now that I'm 1 year postpartum with my second and finally starting to feel more like myself and look like myself, he's still the same. It's making me feel like things will never change and I'm starting to wonder if I'll be able to survive in a basically sexless/loveless marriage in which I have to continue mothering my husband. I just feel like a bunch of nothing in this relationship. I don't feel beautiful, I don't feel respected, and i think I might feel contempt towards him.
He is very understanding when we talk about everything and empathetic and wanting to change (manipulative is how it feels though because of the amount of empty promises), and I'm worried. He doesn't want a divorce, but that has been on the table for the last few months and still no change from him. Do I continue down this path of hoping he will finally change this time or move on? Ultimately, a happy mother is the best thing I can give my kids so divorce isn't off the table in that regard, but it's such a hard decision.
Our relationship has been so complex so it's been kind of hard to sum it all up, but I'm hoping for some advice on whether we can save this marriage. That would be extremely appreciate! Or even similar stories would be helpful! He has been reluctant to go to couples therapy with me or even himself until now, but I worry it's too late at this point.

Welcome to Reading The Big Book of Cyberpunk!
Each week we (u/FarragutCircle and u/fanny_bertram) will be reading 5-ish stories from Jared Shurin’s The Big Book of Cyberpunk, which includes a curated selection of cyberpunk stories written from 1950 to 2022! We’ll include synopses of the stories along with links to any legally available online versions we can find. Feel free to read along with us or just stop by and hear our thoughts about some cyberpunk stories to decide if any of them sound interesting to you.
Every once in a while, we reach out to people who have more insight, due to being fans of the author or have some additional context for the story. (Or we just tricked them into it.) So please welcome u/RuinEleint who will be sharing their thoughts on "The Yuletide Cyberpunk Yarn, or Christmas_Eve-117.DIR" by Victor Pelevin!
“Deep Eddy” by Bruce Sterling (published 1993; also available in his collection Ascendancies: The Best of Bruce Sterling)
Deep Eddy is acting as a data courier to the Cultural Critic in Düsseldorf, right as the city goes through a Wende (a sort of anarchist “Purge”).

• Farragut’s thoughts: We’ve read Sterling before in Science Fiction. Eddy is a misguided libertarian creep who won’t stop hitting on his German bodyguard and is too dumb to understand the philosophical points that the Cultural Critic is making (for that matter, I’m too dumb to understand, too). He survives his time in Germany, but has learned nothing of value for his punk attitude. What’s the point of rebelling if you don’t understand why? The naivete and creepiness were a little too much for me.
  
• fanny’s thoughts: This did not work for me. Eddy is creepy and annoying. He keeps hitting on the bodyguard and she makes it VERY clear she is only there in a professional context. Eddy also seems to generally not have any clue what he is doing. He is libertarian and against something but no one seems to know what. He doesn't even seem to know what he delivered to the Cultural Critic.
  

“The Yuletide Cyberpunk Yarn, or Christmas_Eve-117.DIR” by Victor Pelevin (1996, translated from Russian by Alex Shvartsman)
A corrupt mayor’s computer is infected by a virus that causes chaos in Russia.

• Special Guest Ruin: This was a fascinating story to read. The way the narrative segued from a discussion on poetry to a darkly comedic look at a Russian city was remarkable. The author seems to like to start or lead with a theme or themes which seem to be only tangentially related to each other such as for example the name of the computer virus, or Gerasimov and his dog. But both elements circle back into the story and are crucial to its structure. As for the content of the story itself, I amused myself by imagining the events as being a movie that blended the stylistic elements of Tarantino and Wes Anderson. So we have brutal, bloody violence in increasingly absurd settings and the way it is all described makes it easy to imagine it all taking place amidst the highly stylized sets and characters we would expect in a Wes Anderson movie. Overall, I really enjoyed this story.
  
• Farragut: We’ve read Pelevin before in Modern Fantasy. First of all, this is a fantastic title for a story, period. Second of all, I just enjoyed Pelevin’s style here (via Shvartsman’s translation), with an omniscient narrator telling us about a completely ridiculous situation. It gets a little cagey with the identity of the perpetrator and the ending, but I’m very curious as to how darkly I should read it (now that I think about it, it’s directly connected to the original, so I should read it very darkly indeed). Shvartsman’s occasional footnotes were very helpful, however, especially with the context surrounding Gerasim(ov) and Mumu.
  
• fanny: Ruin's review is so good, I am not sure what to add. The style of this story fit the elements so well. It starts with a poem whose themes carry through the story. The footnotes were a really great addition and helped contextualize. The narrator keeps upping the ridiculousness until we get to the end and everything gets wrapped up.
  

“Wonderama” by Bef (1998, translated from Spanish by the author)
Lalo (or is it Eduardo?) wakes up every day in the most awesome life in 1974, but it’s revealed to be a lie and ends tragically.

• Farragut: Bef is a Mexican SF writer, a crime writer, and a graphic novelist, and honestly his whole bibliography sounds cool as heck. Told in a series of diary entries with some small interruptions, we follow a kid whose life is like a Mexican kid’s sugar-fueled dream. The reason for its inclusion in this thematic section of the anthology becomes clear however, and I yelled, “Noooo!” at the ending. Sigh. It’s very good!
  
• fanny: I am a sucker for diary entry style stories and this was no exception. Lalo’s life seems almost perfect, but it feels so off. The story feels progressively more off until we start to question everything. Also, yelled “Nooo!” at the ending. Very good. Absolutely loved.
  

“comp.basilisk FAQ” by David Langford (1999) (link to story)
A FAQ-style story that clearly describes a bizarre future where images on the web and TV are banned due to the risk of death.

• Farragut: Langford is famous for having the most Hugo wins (29), mostly for the Fan Writer category, but also Short Story (not this one) and Best Related Work (not this one either). This is a delightful story that made me think of it as a precursor to qntm’s later story “Lena” from Week 5 (though obviously only in general form). Apparently I love the faux-nonfiction style where some of the horror and plot is between the lines. The final FAQ about Microsoft was darkly funny.
  
• fanny: This was fun and very short. The FAQs related to basilisk and writing were great. It goes between funny, dark humor, and just dark. I liked the commentary on technology and software. I also really appreciate the standard response answers explaining they should post someone else. This is something I deal with often and this was great.
  

“Spider's Nest” by Myra Çakan (2004, translated from German by Jim Young; also available in the anthology The Apex Book of World SF 3 edited by Lavie Tidhar)
Spider, uh, does something? Is looking for drugs, maybe? But something else happens instead?

• Farragut: Çakan is a German writer from Hamburg, and after reading this story, I’d say Shurin made hamburger out of me, too. The main thing I got out of this story was that Spider really wanted something, maybe. I thought it was drugs, but he got angry at his dealer and then got super weird with his friend’s girlfriend? And then there was a Silver Spider, who wasn’t him, but maybe he plugged himself in to replace her? What is happening?
  
• fanny: Spider definitely wanted drugs from his dealer, Ant. I think. Ant got annoyed at something then Spider got into a voyeur situation (maybe). There is a Silver Spider in his dreams that makes him feel better. I couldn't tell if this was dream or drug induced or technology induced. The end is super weird and makes even less sense than the story. Spider might have done a murder on himself? I have been confused before in this anthology, but not to this level.
  

That’s it for this week! Check back the same time next week where we’ll be reading and discussing "The Last American" by John Kessel, "Earth Hour" by Ken MacLeod, "Violation of the TrueNet Security Act" by Taiyo Fujii, "Twelve Minutes to Vinh Quang" by T. R. Napper, and "Operation Daniel" by Khalid Kaki.
Also posted on Bochord Online.

TL;DR: Matched with a seemingly great guy on Bumble, hit it off well, moved to texting and phone calls, only to have him "test" me on our first disagreement about who should pay on dates. Despite forgiving him, he responded with hateful accusations, leaving me to move on from his manipulative behaviour.
Hey everyone,
I need some advice on a situation that’s been bothering me. Here’s the full story:
I (32) matched with this guy (37) on Bumble recently, and we hit it off immediately. We spent hours texting and eventually, we moved to a phone call that lasted several hours. We got along so well that he mentioned he would have liked to take me out that day, but he already had plans with his friends to watch an F1 race and a football match. I appreciated his honesty and told him it was fine, and we continued talking throughout the day, even while he was with his friends. It was going SPLENDIDLY!
However, out of nowhere, he made a condescending comment about my Instagram, saying it looks like he’d have to sell a kidney to take a girl like me out. I found it extremely offensive and told him that while I’m financially comfortable and can pay for myself, I do have standards when it comes to dating. I expect a man who asks me out on a date to be willing to pay for it. If a man doesn’t pay, I see it as going out as friends, and I wouldn’t consider a second date. He then doubled down, saying he was new in town and unsure where to take me because I seemed to have an extravagant lifestyle.
I clarified that I didn’t expect an extravagant first date and had a favourite bar in mind that’s quite economical due to my regular patron status there. But I wasn't sure if I was interested in moving forward with him because this had gotten too weird and uncomfortable for me.
He then admitted he was TESTING me because he has a lot of money and didn’t want to be used for it - Mentioning his FERRARI, while he was at it, which I had frankly assumed was a rental, I didn't give it a second thought or glance. He then said he was very disappointed in me accused me of being like other women who expect men to pay — He called me a Gold Digger in so many words. I found this extremely manipulative, insulting, offensive and downright disrespectful and told him so and asked him to fuck right off! Just for the record - I am also rather well-off. Not only do I make decent money, but my parents are also financially well-off.
Despite my frustration, he apologised profusely and asked for a second chance, claiming he was wrong to test me and that he genuinely wanted to get to know me better. I told him I appreciated the apology but couldn’t get past the disrespect and the implications of his “test.” I made it clear that his behaviour had made me feel judged and uncomfortable, and I didn’t see how we could move forward.
He kept insisting, saying we could laugh about this misunderstanding later and that he’d make it up to me. I reiterated that I didn’t want to feel scrutinised or judged every time we interacted, and that this incident had soured my perception of him. I told him it was best to part ways and ended the conversation. He asked me to sleep on it, and I did.
The next morning, I sent him a text to formally close things off, but on a good note, saying:
"We definitely had a fun and interesting day, but we both know this isn't going to work out! I truly enjoyed our time together and our roller coaster of a conversation. Most people don't even have dates as fun and intriguing as this! But sadly, this is the end of the road for us. I do truly wish you the very best with everything, and I'm glad we ran into each other. Take care and be well! 💗"
He didn’t respond to that text, but he continued to view my Instagram stories, which I found really passive-aggressive. So, I followed up with:
"Hey, I noticed you didn't respond to my last message. I just wanted to say that I tried to be respectful and honour the conversation we had because I genuinely valued it. It would have meant a lot to hear back from you, even just a simple acknowledgment. Regardless, I wish you all the best."
His response to that was unexpectedly hostile. He accused me of being selfish and only caring about my own feelings. He claimed he had already responded to my earlier texts and accused me of being stubborn and ungrateful for the time he spent talking to me. His tone was rude and accusatory, which only reinforced my decision to end things.
I replied, explaining how his actions had made me feel judged and disrespected. I pointed out that despite enjoying our conversation, his test and subsequent behavior were major red flags. I told him I was disappointed by his hostility and that I was hoping for a more respectful closure.
He left my final message on “seen” and hasn’t responded since. Which is fine. Screw him.
I'm not looking for advice on how to get back with him. I’m just trying to process this and move on. Any tips on how to deal with such a disappointing end to what seemed like a promising connection? Because I hadn't been this super excited to go out in a VERY long time!
Thanks for reading.
Add : I want to clarify that the pictures on my Instagram are not of me partying. While there's nothing wrong with that, my posts are actually about my workouts, the food and drinks I enjoy, and my travels around the world. You'll see photos of me flying business and first class, wearing stylish clothes and accessories. Importantly, there are no men in these pictures—just my girlfriends and my sister. So whatever dumb shit he assumed and said was dumb as hell!

“Will you look at that,” Captain Yontan marveled from the observation deck. They had arrived in the Solar System at long last, the old bastion of knowledge mankind had abandoned many millennia ago.
“Such a basic tech, yet so beautiful, so… poetic,” Lezlybe uttered, gazing at the constant flux of Sunfire Conduit pulled from the sun to one, two, three relays, and finally to the surface of Pluto, where its energy was being harnessed inside a crater. “And you’re certain that’s where the Ultimate Knowledge is stored?”
“Yes,” Yontan nodded. “Every clue leads to Pluto. Can you imagine? The Ultimate Knowledge, lost for millennia, on this planet out of all places.”
“Ready to descend at your command, captain,” announced Ghenna.
Yontan turned to his crew and smiled. It was the first time they had seen him do that in months. “Hover around the south-south-eastern quadrant of the crater. That’s where the entrance is supposed to be.”
“Yes, Sir!”
Lezlybe’s turned to face the captain, her long black hair swirling around with her.
“Wouldn’t that energy burn us on approach?”
“It might be basic tech, but not that basic, Lez,” said Yontan. “It’s safe up to a distance of 100 meters. Don’t underestimate the intelligence of our ancestors because they built this thing in the distant past. They were as smart as us. Smarter even, in certain aspects, I’m sure.”
“Found the entrance, captain,” said Ghenna. It was a pale peach colored door built on the craterside.
“Land near it, wherever it’s stable.”
“Yes, Sir!”
The ship touched down next to the Hollis Crater. Yontan and four others suited up and left the craft. Before heading for the door, the team stopped to gaze at the Sunfire Conduit from their position. It went up, up, up as far as the eye could see.
Jmerr was awestruck.
“I can’t believe we’re able to look at it with basic sun visors. Do you think our ancestors purposefully designed it like that?”
“Of course,” said Yontan, mesmerized by the spiraling blaze swooshing down the crater. “Aesthetics have always been important, especially since it used to be connected to three planets, two dwarf planets, and eight moons. Many renown painters have depicted the Conduits in their art. Although no physical portraits survived, their works have been well documented over hundreds of books.”
Lezlybe approached Jmerr and put her hand over his shoulder.
“I kind of wish we could hear its thunderous sound. I imagine it’d be a satisfying swoosh, kind of like a blowtorch.”
“You’d be deaf before you’d hear a thing,” laughed Yontan. “We’re speaking of extremely powerful jets coming from a star, after all. I can’t wait to see why they’re pulling so much energy on such a small planet. It’s totally excessive in my view.”
“Maybe it’s not,” said Lezlybe. “Especially if the Ultimate Knowledge is behind this door.”
The team approached the door, a small black panel to its side. Yontan placed a round device on top and, seconds later, it retracted into the ground.
“A Grampus?” frowned Jmerr, even though no one could see his face behind the visor. “Why do you use this old AI?”
“Because I don’t know the code,” explained Yontan as they stepped inside a long hall. “So I brought this device with me to crack the password. Don’t forget that this here is also old tech. Newer devices could break something.” He glanced over his shoulder at the wide-open entryway with the ship not too far behind. “But it looks like the Grampus broke it anyway since it doesn’t slide shut.”
At the end of the wide turquoise hall, another door was easily popped open with Yontan’s device. This time, however, the heavy door closed shut when the last person stepped in.
“I hope we’re not trapped in this small room,” gulped Lezlybe.
“Don’t worry, we can ask someone on board to cut it open if needed,” said Yontan. “After all we –”
PSHHHHHHHH
A burst of gas sprayed them from all sides, followed by a shower of heavy liquid. A few moments after it stopped, the door in front of them opened, and a gentle male voice greeted them.
“Welcome to U.K. ONE. The current air pressure is at 101.3 kilopascals, with a temperature of 22.4 degrees Celsius and a humidity level set at 60% RH.”
The voice then proceeded to inform them about the room’s condition among other sets of data.
“I see. We were inside a basic decompression chamber,” muttered Jmerr.
The tallest crewmate, Lessandre, popped his helmet off and took a deep breath.
“Ah, historical fresh air,” he boomed, looking around the oval room. “It brings a tear to my eye.”
“What are you doing?” Yontan shouted. “We don’t know what particles or microorganisms could linger in here.”
“Relax, captain. Tyche analyzed the air and told me it’s fine. Why don’t you all retract your visors and experience this multimillennial-old air? You’ll never have the chance to do that again, you know.”
Yontan checked with his own version of his AI, Tyche, and everything seemed to be fine, so he retracted the visor of his helmet as well, just in time to scratch an itch on his beard. The rest of the crew followed, except for Jmerr.
“Come on, Jmerr. It’s a unique experience, my friend,” beamed Lessandre, tapping on his shoulder.
Jmerr scowled at Lessandre. “I refuse to take unnecessary risks.”
“As you wish,” Lessandre grinned, loudly sniffing the air. “Ahhh. The air in here is exceptionally… how to describe it?”
“Dusty?” Lezlybe chimed in. “I think the auto-clean on the filter stopped working long ago.”
Yontan was ignoring his crew, inspecting the walls of this oval room for clues. But the room was pretty much empty, outside of the air conditioning holes and lights flickering on the ceiling.
“I know there’s another door on the other side of the crater, but that one’s the entrance to the accumulator and workspaces,” he muttered to himself, caressing the wall in the hopes of finding a button or a gap of sorts.
“Is that place also turquoise?” asked Lessandre. “I really hate this color. Reminds me too much of my ex.”
Lezlybe rolled her eyes.
“Then why don’t we go there?” asked Ghenna, who had closed her visor since she didn’t like the smell.
“Because,” began Yontan absent-mindedly while brushing his hands over the wall, “every document points to this place. We’ll check the other site if we don’t find anything here. Now if only I – aha! A button. This might be it.”
Yontan pushed it with his finger. Instead of clicking, like any other button would, his index finger sank completely in. He immediately withdrew it, fearing something might cut his finger off. But the button came back, except it was now white and protruded out of the wall. Yontan hesitantly pressed it.
An oval pedestal emerged from the middle of the floor, gradually rising until it reached chest height. The left side slid open with melodious clicks, and out came a small table with a round black object on it with a sky-blue center. Before they had the time to guess what it was, a hologram rose from it, displaying the head of an old balding man with a lazy eye.
“Greetings, future humans,” said the feeble voice. “And welcome to K.U. ONE. What is your purpose here?”
Yontan glanced at his crew, who gave him a nod and shrugs. He cleared his throat and spoke clearly, “We’ve come here to gain access to the Ultimate Knowledge, which is said to contain the answers to our purpose within the universe.”
“I see. And you are one, two, five. Oh! That is good news, good news indeed. I’ve been waiting for you. Well, not me per se, since I’m long dead, I suppose,” the hologram laughed, “but my digital image. And five? Oh, proof that nothing happens at random.”
Yontan was slightly taken aback.
“Wait. You’re not a simple recording?”
“No, no. I’m enhanced with artificial intelligence. It speaks as I would speak, saying what I asked it to say – with a bit of panache. Now, move to the other side of the pedestal. It will pop open and contain a box.”
The other side popped open, displaying a silver box embossed with gold on the edges. It was beautiful. Lessandre grabbed it and tried to pry it open.
“Tut-tut! You need the key to open the box. I’ll hand it over only of you accept to eat its contents.”
“Eat it?” Yontan uttered in excitement. “Will it alter our brains? Give us the knowledge we yearn for?”
“Not quite. But it is a necessary step.”
“I won’t touch it,” Jmerr stated firmly. “I don’t trust this man. Whatever’s inside, it’s been in there for thousands of years. There’s no way it’s still edible.”
“Oh but it is,” grinned the man. “What do you think the Sunfire Conduit is used for?”
“What?” uttered Lezlybe. “The power of the sun used for… food?”
“Of course, there’s more to it. But a lot of energy is necessary to cool it down to near zero kelvin and keep it that way until it’s very slowly reheated to the ideal temperature for you to savor.
“Now, will you eat its contents or not?”
“Why don’t we bring it back to the ship and study it?” suggested Jmerr.
“The moment you leave the room with the box, its contents will be destroyed, and so will the key to Ultimate Knowledge.”
Yontan exchanged a glance with his crew. Lessandre gave him thumbs up, Ghenna nodded and Lezlybe shrugged. Jmerr was the only one to firmly shake his head.
“Fine, we’ll eat its contents,” said Yontan, upon which Jmerr put his hands up in the air in frustration.
A key appeared from the front of the pedestal. Yonan used it to open the box Lessandre was holding. Five dark-brown spherical objects were neatly placed within fitting molds, resembling the five dots on a die.
“Behold the Five Orbs of Knowledge,” the hologram said solemnly. “I recommend one for each of you.”
Jmerr crossed his arms. “There’s no way I’m touching this.”
“What if someone eats two?” asked Yontan, eyeing Jmerr.
“It would sadden me, even though it might be beneficial to grasp the Ultimate Knowledge.”
Without hesitation, Lessandre popped the middle one in his mouth. Every other crewmate was staring at him. A few bites in, he suddenly froze, eyes wide open. His gaze slowly shifted from Yontan, to Lezlybe, to Ghenna – whose visor was now lowered – and finally stopped on Jmerr.
“Awl eash ‘em bofh,” he rapidly chewed, popping a second one in. “Awl eash ‘em owl ihf you guysh downt.”
Yontan’s hand was shaking as he picked his Orb. Lezlybe and Ghenna also chose one.
“On the count of three,” gulped Yontan, as he noticed the horrified look on Jmerr. “One… two… three!”
The shell of the Orb had a slight crunch, with a rather soft, creamy inner core, gently melting on their tongue. Sweet with a zest of bitterness. Each bite, each movement of their tongue was another moment they savored, dreading the end of this unique flavor. It was an explosion of exoticism, a sensory overload inside their mouth; the richness of the Orb filled their taste buds and souls alike with pure bliss.
Then there was the aroma, dissolving the dusty odor of the room with its arboraceous perfume. It reminded them of Terrestrial woods, now planted across various planets in the Milky Way. Comforting, ancient, nostalgic, and so raw at heart.
Fortunately, this jolly adventure didn’t end after they swallowed it, no, each residue, sticking to the various corners of their mouths, lingered like a fleeting memory soon to disappear forever. Yet it was still there, to grasp with the palm of their hands. But when they tried to, it became vapor, dwindling, yet etched in their brains with such strength it would be impossible to ever forget this moment. Ever.
Their minds were still floating on a cloud of ecstasy when Yontan stared at Lessandre.
“You ate two,” he breathed. “And you,” he turned to Jmerr, “you have no idea what you’ve just missed. It’s… indescribably delectable.” Yontan faced the hologram. “Please, give us one more, for Jmerr. He has to try this… Orb.”
The hologram grinned widely, creasing the old man’s entire face.
“These were the last five. There are no more.”
“WHAT?” everyone shouted at once.
“Th– that’s it? No more?” Yontan’s shoulder slumped. “Why didn’t you tell us earlier? We could’ve taken it back to the ship and try to recreate it.”
“It’s impossible without the recipe.”
“A recipe? Give it to us, I don’t care about Ultimate Knowledge anymore,” Lessandre laughed.
“But you had two,” Lezlybe scowled.
“And I want more,” he chuckled. “I’ve never felt better in my life. Even two were far too few!”
“Yes, hand us the recipe so we can share it with the rest of the crew,” pleaded Yontan.
The hologram seemed more and more pleased with itself.
“Even if I gave you the recipe you couldn’t make it when the main ingredient’s missing.”
“What’s the main ingredient?” Ghenna asked.
“Cacao. And these were chocolate truffles, which I made myself utilizing the very last cacao beans to ever exist. I’m sorry. You’ll never eat chocolate ever again.”
Jmerr seemed disappointed upon hearing it, especially after seeing how everyone reacted to it.
“B – but… why?” Yontan asked. “Why offer us a delicious treat only to punch us in the gut right after?”
The hologram smiled. “Think. What is your purpose here?”
“To acquire Ultimate Knowledge… But I fail to understand…”
“If my clock is correct, 3622 years have passed since the last human – which is myself – set wheels in this room. 3622 years of technological advancement, of accumulated mastery of various sciences and understanding of the universe. Yet you believe Ultimate Knowledge is to be found in the past?”
The crewmembers looked at each other, dumbfounded.
“So… it doesn’t exist?” suggested Lezlybe. “We’ve come this far for nothing…”
“Haven’t you just experienced the ultimate delicacy of humankind? Therein lies everything you need to know.”
“It’s not about the knowledge,” began Yontan, “but about the experience we savor?”
“Exactly!” Clapping hands appeared in front of the hologram’s face. “Instead of looking for something that may not be, learn to cherish the transient nature of existence through every experience you encounter. Who knows what happens once you’re dead? Constant hesitation leads to a life of lost opportunities. One of you has learned this lesson the hard way, I’m afraid. However, the tall man over there has greatly benefited from this lesson. Balance in all things!”
“No data is ever lost,” snorted Jmerr scornfully. “Death is simply the temporary loss of information until it’s retrieved.”
“The no-hiding theorem,” smiled the hologram. “Of course. But you wouldn’t be here if you could completely determine the state of the entire universe. Thus, my rhetoric stays valid. For as long as this is beyond our grasp – likely until humanity’s extinction – you ought to cherish every experience and lose your fear of consequences within reason.”
The room went silent, the subtle taste of chocolate still lingering in their mouths like the fading words of an old love letter.
“What do we do now, captain?” Ghenna asked shyly.
“Take your new-found knowledge and share it with others,” the hologram said before Yontan could open his mouth.
“So… there really is nothing else here?”
“Nothing at all.”
The hologram fluttered for a moment.
“Were these really the last pieces of chocolate?”
“Yes.”
“Then why didn’t you eat them yourself?”
“Because sharing is the quintessential attribute of humanity. And I’m glad to have contributed my part, even though it took several millennia.”
“So why use all that energy from the sun?” asked Lezlybe.
“It’s twofold,” said the hologram. “Partially to keep this chocolate in pristine state, as I said before. You’ll understand the second reason soon enough. Let’s say it’s a parting gift, for that man who hasn’t eaten his Orb.”
“I don’t understand.” Yontan was running his fingers through his hair. “You speak of sharing, yet we won’t be able to share this exquisite experience. There’s no chocolate left.”
“Share the wisdom you’ve acquired. Or perhaps you shall find something unique to share with others as I did. Even the stories of your adv–”
The man disappeared for a few seconds.
“–entures – Ah? We’ve been cut. Soon I shall be free, just like your minds. Swiftly return to your ships, and sail t–”
It flickered again and stopped for nearly ten seconds.
“–he vast empty space to… wherever your heart leads you. Farewell. Fare well indeed.”
The hologram zoomed out to show an old man sitting on a wheelchair, waving both hands. It flickered one last time before completely fading out with a hum.
Suddenly, a familiar voice spoke from everyone’s earpiece.
“Captain, is everything all right?” asked one of the crew left on the ship in a panic.
“Why? Did the entrance crumble down?”
“No, Sir. It’s the Conduit. You need to see this for yourself.”
The crew put on their visors and hurried out of the room, through the hallway, out on the freezing surface of Pluto. They gasped upon staring up.
“The Conduit!” Ghenna uttered.
It was oscillating, slowly shrinking until the last flames swooshed back and forth from the relay to the crater, and then, it retracted entirely.
“It’s… it’s gone…” sighed Yontan.
“The parting gift,” Jmerr sobbed. “He knew. He knew someone might not try out the chocolate truffle, and he purposefully shut down the entire system.”
Lessandre turned to Jmerr. “Consider this your incredible experience. We must be the only humans to ever see this happen in real time.”
“But we can reconnect it, unlike the chocolate, can’t we?” said Lizlybe.
Yontan shook his head. “Do you know of the ancient pyramids in the northern African continent?”
“Yeah…” she hesitated. “Vaguely.”
“Do you know why they’ve never been rebuilt?”
Lezlybe shrugged.
“Because there’s nothing to gain in doing so.” He pointed his finger at the vast expanse above him. “We’ve never rebuilt the ancient pyramids – not due to complexity, but due to loss of time and resources involved without any actual benefit. I’m afraid this is the last time anyone has admired this old tech at work.”
Upon their return on the ship, they told the rest of the crew what inside the U.K. ONE.
“So the Ultimate Knowledge doesn’t exist?” one of the crewmember asked.
Yontan took one last glance at the crater as the ship took off.
“I believe it does,” he beamed, looking at the bemused faces of his crew. “Not here.” He gently tapped his temple. “But here.” His hand rested on his chest. “And there.” His arms were wide open, as if trying to embrace his whole crew at once. “Acquired wisdom is the Ultimate Knowledge. And the ability to share experiences with others is our greatest gift.”

How can we stop going around in circles with these corrupted nihilists? (basically an extreme religious-nut but in reverse; no meaning, no value, no good/bad, nothing matters) I've compiled some of my thoughts/comments.

But first If you are not caught up yet:
1 Re: Vegan Gains ...The Militant Vegan Raffaela Interview - (May 12, 2024)
2 Vegan Gains is a sub-Jerkivest [5/11/24]
3 Moral Realism Debate w/ Inmendham - (May 16, 2024)
4 WTF #899: The vegan gains debate ... Value realism - (May 19, 2024)
5 Vegan Gains ...Denialism is the only nihilism [5/19/24]
also saw this Controversial Topics with Vegan Gains (Horse Riding, Bivalves, Depression, and much more!) - (May 11, 2024) ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ (he thinks in terms of some dogmatic religious brain-rot morality source of right/wrong, but a kind of reversed/opposite conclusion of it's absence, nihilism)
the very reason religion was invented in the first place was because humans by nature had a value-engine driving them & NEED for meaning, that's the irony. value gave rise to religion, religion never needed to grant value. The fact people can't grasp this. 🤦 ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ ‎

Now onto the various arguments, sorry how long and out of order it is But the idea is to provoke you coming up with better ideas/arguments, and if you can critic and strenghen my and ultimately inmendham's arguments. The GOAL should be to Create a formal argument AKA a syllogism, modus ponens. Something clear and concise that can't be taken out of context or misinterpreted, as happened with the debate...

On the subject of Efilism, tread lightly, the philosophy and argument extends beyond merely focusing on suffering; it also includes the critical issue of consent violation. Its proponent and creator, Inmendham, argues for value realism, which contrasts starkly with the notion of subjective morality which I find illogical. While objective morality is full of baggage... often linked to outdated religious doctrine so on face value it's not fun or easy subject to broach... many contemporary non-religious ethicists ground it in realism. Personally me, inmendham and others see no use for the term "morality" as it's tainted. value-realism is the subject. Is it a value-laden universe or not?
it is not necessary to call TRUE/REAL right or wrong Objective, because if objective is defined as mind-independent than without minds there's nothing right/wrong to happen to, therefore THE discussion should be just regarding what is TRUE or NOT, subjective doesn't necessarily mean mere contrived opinion or preference but can be logical conclusion, e.g. you can conclude 2 + 2 = 4 as we understand these concepts of numbers to model reality but can you call it objective or mind-independent 2 + 2 = 4, or that math exists? Not really. As you require a modeler to model reality, an observer to make the observation, a mind to come to such accurate conclusions. To me, claiming there is no real right or wrong is akin to asserting that moral standards and ultimately the subject of Ethics is as fictitious as religion or Santa Claus, you just believe it cause you want to or have preference to. Why maintain this pretense if it's all a mere fabrication / contrivance?
Regarding subjective judgments such as determining "What's the tastiest potato chip or the most beautiful painting?", these are not factual assessments about the things themselves, The question itself is misleading, because the thing itself has none of those qualities objectively, Instead, such qualities are OUTPUTs generated by the interaction of our bodies and minds with these INPUT items, the input is quite arbitrary/irrelevant, unlike the highly meaningful & distinct output generated of positive or negative experiences. You might get off more on certain female body part than another, it doesn't matter, the output positives & negatives is more or less same among individuals and that's what's relevant... not what specific fun or hobby gets you or them off or pushes their buttons.
It can be TRUE that a certain food item is the tastiest to that personal individual, or gross to another, and we can talk about intersubjective truths with averages overall. But one's experience of what is tastiest for them doesn't contradict another's, they can both be true for them individually, as you are likely not even sharing the same exact experiences to judge differently. And one's very perception or framing of the experience changes the experience itself, no way around this truth. Some people find bricks tasty or edible, just how their brain is wired.
It's important to recognize that differing opinions of personal taste do not inherently conflict in the way ethical contradictions do. With ethical matters, asserting that two diametrically opposed views are equally valid is problematic, either one is right and the other wrong, or both might be based on flawed reasoning. Pretending 2 opposing ethical views can be both equally right/true/correct is utter contradictory mush, either one of them must be right / wrong, or both are contrived meaningless nothing opinions, just made up. you wouldn't say whether one believes in god or not IS mere personal opinion/preference and such 2 opposing views can be equally right at same time, that's utter contradictory nonsense, by saying 2 opinions that gRAPE is both good & bad at same time are equally right opinons, right loses all meaning and you might as well say neither is right and both are wrong, they each have their own contrived fairytale delusion.
Now with Ethics of right / wrong, it does not depend on one single individual's preference or opinion, but taken as the whole, if you violate one without consent you still have to account for that since you are seemingly putting the weight on the preference otherwise preferences are utterly meaningless and irrelevant.
ALSO, Do you call whatever you prefer what's right, or do you prefer to try to do what is right?
Do you prefer to seek out what is the right most accurate conclusion given all the facts of reality, or contrive right to be what's in your preference/interest or personal gain?
I don't think VG or most these talking heads understand value-realism (problematic events within subjectivity/a non-physical but REAL reality of the mind). Obviously there's no objective divine or otherwise prime-directive moral-rules we must follow. Unfortunately Religion has poisened the conversation so much with archaic ideas and mushy terms like 'Morality'. Understand there is no 'moral truth', let alone an objective one, ofc if you pigeon-hole me or all realists into defending such nonsense it's easy to refute them. What I'm interested in is subject of Ethics, and to start whether or not value/problematic events exist or do not exist.
Here's a silly question by nihilists: "why is suffering bad?"
Response: How do you identify suffering? Based on the fact that it feels bad. (Yes subjectively) Just as we can subjectively understand 2+2 = 4
Or this: "prove suffering bad, objectively"
Also question-begging, obviously it is subjective. If such badness cannot exist mind-independently by definition.
"Prove suffering is bad, objectively"
is begging the question, because...
It strawmans / assumes the badness must be bad mind-independently, it isn't therefore, it isn't bad.
Answer this, evolutionarily do animals PERCEIVE being tortured skinned alive nail in the eye as BAD, or does it impose torture which we RECOGNIZE and define as Bad by definition?
If true PAIN/torture isn't bad then why does it exist evolutionarily? Answer: (problem -> solution) mechanism which functions as ability to learn & improved survival, this mechanism was reinforced over time as it worked.
inmendham & realists like myself argue: it is the case Descriptively, Objectively evolution IMPOSED Prescriptive-value-judgements onto animals which function as a learning/problem solving mechanism. Fact is, the invention of 'PROBLEM' is something I/we/animals had nothing to do with... (no-free-will-choice) but are simply byproduct in observation of this fact.
If real PROBLEM(s) didn't truly exist then Arguably the word and conceptual understanding it points 👉 to wouldn't exist either. As if beings could be truly blind never seeing colors/vision yet pulling the idea out of thin air and conceiving of such a thing, how preposterous, that'd be giving human creativity/imagination way too much credit. The only nihilist argument then is that by evolution we & all feeling organisms are somehow ultimately deluded or have illusion of problem where there is none, which I find deeply implausible. Run the torture study/experiment a million times putting people's arm in the fire "yep still bad". Filtering out people who lack ability to feel pain of course.
As evolutionary biologists even states pain is a message to the animal "don't do that again". Can't get descriptively prescriptive more than that.
Are You Getting It?
The Ought is literally baked in as an IS. The is-ought gap to be bridged is a complete Red-Herring, yes you can't derive an Ought from an IS, because if you oughtn't do something, then it can never be BAD... problematic/BAD/torture can't mean anything if it doesn't scream OUGHT-not.
All you have to agree to is due to evolution it created torture which is decidedly negative/ inherently BAD, by definition. Otherwise it wouldn't feel bad or be torturous at all... THEN ask yourself, how can something be BAD yet it's not BAD to create that BAD?
This is Checkmate. These are irrefutable Facts & Logical deductions.
So much for it all being false-perception, the very fact placebo patients perceive an otherwise harmless laser as BAD/painful makes it so. It's the TRUE reality in their mind and you can't deny that fact. It's also a fact believing a pain isn't really all that bad can make it so, but this doesn't make these value-laden experiences NOT real/true.
As per evolution, your body/brain's mechanisms must generate & impose a prescriptive-value-judgement / problematic event within your mind,
It's nagging, complaining, telling you keeping your hand on the hot stove is a mistake/problematic/bad. (not in itself but as a consequence)
I believe this brain making me write all this... is making an accurate assessment when it observe certain events to be problematic/bad where it's happening which is within subjectivity, where's your evidence my perceptions are fooling me or I'm somehow deluded? I witnessed the crime take place and you were nowhere near the crime scene yet you have the authority to claim otherwise as fact? (You are not simply agnostic to my problem suffering but a De-nihilist)
Once one accepts this evolutionary fact we can move on to more complicated questions regarding ethics, like how do weigh the good & the bad, conflicting preferences, etc. Otherwise, it's all pointless & futile, like arguing bivalves or wild-suffering with a non-vegan. They're just not on that level yet and it's a waste of time.
revised version of my other comment: I believe that many discussions around morality miss a crucial point about value-realism, which acknowledges problematic events within subjectivity, a non-physical but real reality of the mind. It is evident that there are no objective, divine, or prime-directive moral rules we must follow. Unfortunately, religion has muddied the conversation with archaic ideas and terms like 'morality'.
There is no 'moral truth,' especially not an objective one. If critics pigeonhole realists into defending such notions, it becomes easy to refute them. My interest lies in ethics and whether value/problematic events exist.
Consider this question by nihilists: "Why is suffering bad?"
Response: Suffering is identified because it feels bad, subjectively. Just as we subjectively understand 2+2=4, we can recognize suffering through its unpleasant experience.
When asked to "prove suffering is bad, objectively," this is question-begging, as the question assumes that the badness must exist independently of minds, which it does not by definition. This question straw-mans the issue by requiring mind-independent badness, ignoring the subjective nature of suffering. As if the quality of it being BAD must be granted by something outside the experience itself.
Evolutionary Perspective: Animals perceive and react to torture (e.g., being skinned alive) as bad because evolution has imposed mechanisms that signal harm. Pain serves as a problem-solving mechanism, reinforcing behaviors that enhance survival. If pain and suffering weren't inherently problematic, they wouldn’t exist in the form they do.
Realists like myself argue that evolution has objectively imposed prescriptive-value judgments on animals. The concept of 'problem' or 'bad' arises from these evolutionary mechanisms, not from free will. The existence of these concepts indicates the reality of these problematic experiences.
If real problems didn’t exist, neither would the concepts describing them. This is akin to how beings blind from birth wouldn’t conceive of color. Suggesting that evolutionary processes have universally deluded all feeling organisms into perceiving problems where there are none is implausible.
As evolutionary biologists state, pain signals to the animal, "don't do that again," which is descriptively prescriptive. The 'ought' is embedded within the 'is.' Thus, the is-ought gap is a red herring because prescriptive judgments are evolutionarily ingrained.
Again, How do you identify suffering? Based on the fact that it feels bad. (Yes subjectively) Just as we can subjectively understand 2+2 = 4
All you have to agree to is due to evolution it created torture which is decidedly negative/ inherently BAD, by definition. Otherwise it wouldn't feel bad or be torturous at all... THEN ask yourself, how can something be BAD yet it's not BAD to create that BAD?
Conclusion: By acknowledging that evolution created inherently negative experiences like torture, we accept that these experiences are bad by definition. Denying the badness of creating bad experiences is contradictory. Therefore, once recognizing the true reality of subjective experiences, only then we can move on to complex ethical questions about weighing good and bad and addressing conflicting preferences.
playing devil's advocate let's try Steelman their position and then arrive at the logical conclusions of it and then perhaps refute it. If they say: "veganism = right" realize there is no contradiction IF by 'right' they just mean it's literally nothing but their preference...
There's no goal to prefer to know/do what's right, RATHER what's right is whatever matches our personal preferences, so unlike flat earther vs round earth beliefs/CLAIMs which can contradict/conflict with each other since either 1 is right or both are wrong. Individual tastes don't.
Whereas if VG says 9 people gRAPE the 1 kid for fun is WRONG because he's a threshold-deontologist but Also RIGHT to a hedonistic utilitarian, Those views only contradict/conflict if they are making VALUE-claims or recognizing a problematic event take place. However, with VG apparently he would have to say he's not claiming or labelling anything as TRULY problematic at all but merely describing his preferences like flavor of ice cream...
Now, of course, as the realist, I find such a view more deplorable/worse than if they were merely agnostic on right/wrong. Cause it's one thing to say there's a right answer to questions of Ethics but we have no objective scientific basis to determine it yet or lack knowledge VS saying they have knowledge there is absolutely no right or wrong.
Under Anti-realism nihilism, what they mean by wrong/right, is just their preference, if I understand correctly (which I'm quite sure) Anti-realism nihilism reduces the Subject of Ethics down to nothing but you or someone else pontificating/opining (i.e "me no like torture") . It defends some sort of expressivism, emotivism, normative, prescriptive reduction of Ethics. Which I find lubricious and has to be a mistake,
I don't see anyone playing any different game even the nihilists invest their money and plan ahead for self-interest, no one truly signs up for torture for fun like it's no problem, and runs away from pleasure happiness as bad. Further, it stands to reason... since we can recognize objectively evolution created a punishment mechanism to enforce learning and survival, BAD/PROBLEM as a concept is something I/WE/Animals had nothing to do with. We didn't invent it, we recognize it and respond accordingly. Even evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins stated that pain is a message to the organism 'don't do that again!'
We must address further the flawed logic of VG and other nihilists reducing Ethics down to mere arbitrary preferences like potato chip flavor, or how much salt you prefer in the soup. As it is completely disanalogous & dishonest upon reflection. QUOTE: "There's no arguing against Efilism, it's just personal opinion. Like arguing what tastes better... ice-cream or potato chips?"
Say if you believe that the mona-lisa is beautiful, and I personally find it ugly, this conflicts/contradicts nothing because it claims nothing in terms about that object or reality outside of our own minds.
such qualities are OUTPUTs generated by body/mind from these INPUTs, the input is quite arbitrary/irrelevant, unlike the highly meaningful & distinct output generated of positive or negative experiences.
it doesn't matter what specific fun or hobby gets them off or pushes their buttons in order for it MATTER, those differences don't make it any less real OR all mere subjective opinion. the output positives & negatives is more or less same among individuals and that's what's relevant...
It can be TRUE that a certain food item is the tastiest to some personal individual, or gross to another, one's experience of what is tastiest for them doesn't contradict another's, they can both be true for them individually because it is the reality in their mind, Some people find bricks tasty or edible, just how their brain is wired.
while one person may find a certain food delicious, another may find it repulsive, without invalidating each other's experiences because they are true for them individually. both experiences are valid/correct.
However, actions that disregard another's negative experience invalidate their reality. if you find being boiled alive problematic and I do it anyway believing it's ok, I am invalidating your experience as either not real, relevant, doesn't matter, or my preferences are more important (carry more weight) than yours. Or simply believe it's ALL equal or arbitrary and I just prefer to exploit you so I do that.
Positive or negative experiences are largely consistent among people, making them relevant, regardless of the specific stimuli. Individual truths about taste or preference coexist without contradiction, reflecting each person's value-generated reality.
This cannot honestly be applied to one's mere opinion it's fine to boil kids alive, as you are invalidating the fact that it matters to those victims. You saying it doesn't matter or your gain of pleasure outweighs their loss of pain, is a claim about the reality of events going on in their mind, so there is room for conflict/contradiction. They can't both be right/wrong at the exact same time.
A strong non-intuition argument/claim & facts presented render value-nihilism implausible:
It is Descriptively the case, that Evolution IMPOSED Prescriptive-ought statements... of 'PROBLEMATIC sensation/event' on organisms which functioned as a learning mechanism and improved survival.
Therefore, BAD/PROBLEM isn't mere subjective opinion but something I/we/animals had nothing to do with and are mere by-product reacting to an observation.
This is pretty much the only base-axiom needed to ground my own torture as mattering as the original actual value-currency at stake. That paired with the fact I sampled consciousness and know it matters to me whether or not I am tortured, the fact that I personally observe it as problematic makes it the true reality for my own mind...
...AND it's not mere opinion/proclamation / or idea humans creatively invented out of thin air... as if like everyone could be truly blind yet conceptualizing colovision, makes no sense. plus that's giving humanity way too much credit of imagination.
Can't really have thoughts about information that you don't have. The concept of bad/problem arguably wouldn't even exist if it never was so.
Yes, I agree very semantics. I am attempting to shed clarity on this topic. Looking at the word "BAD" purely in a descriptive sense (e.g., that which can be categorically applied to extreme suffering) it loses all meaning if it's not truly consequential (i.e., it matters whether one experiences bad or not). If it doesn't actually matter ("no problemo") then it can't be bad, only an illusion/delusion of it, yet it's an effective one evolution imposed on organisms as a learning/problem-solving mechanism. The value-realists like myself have every reason to believe evolution created the real thing, not some contrived pseudo-problem organisms feel compelled/obligated to solve.
One only requires the axiom of a Descriptive Bad to ground Ethics. Why? Because it can be argued that a descriptive statement of BAD/problem is prescriptive by it's very nature in the meaning the of word/language.(otherwise its psuedo-bad/fake langauge, redefines bad as aversion/mere preference against) Otherwise, it can't mean anything to be bad, torturously obnoxious, unwanted experiential events couldn't mean anything. Evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins even state pain is a punishment signal/message to the animal: "Don't do that again!" If those aren't prescriptions imposed, then I don't know what is. The animal doesn't simply decide/prefer to avoid the event and finds it bad, it's told/finds it bad and so prefers to avoid the event/problem. If god or there were some logically or physically possible way it were to be invented how else would it exist?, or what you think evolution's reward & punishment mechanism accomplished? If it didn't synthesize problematic sensations to force organisms to solve?
Evolution prescribes Needs/wants, at the same time imposes a PAIN/PROBLEM of starvation/hunger which by it's very nature is a prescription for solution (i.e. sustenance/relief/comfort.)
By the very nature of "PROBLEM" it prescribes -> "SOLUTION" not merely a contrived or trivial-like on paper math problem, but the origin of why the word even exists: the problem of pain, a true whip/punishment mechanism, real currency to play with, real loss. Idk how you can describe something categorically as a PROBLEM in the true sense of the word if it doesn't come with it a necessary prescription for its solution. Because if there is no NEED for a solution, then it turns into no longer a problem again...
I don't see how it could be any other way because if there's no real game to be playing with value baked into it, then money would be worthless/not even exist, animals wouldn't bother evade standing in the fire, etc.
Saying It is Descriptively the case, that Evolution IMPOSED Prescriptive-ought statements... of 'PROBLEMATIC sensation/event' on organisms which functioned as a learning mechanism and improved survival.
Is the same as saying Evolution IMPOSED torture/BAD, as that's what torture/bad is... a prescribed need for solution to a problem which is some form of relief/comfort.
The prescription arises as a result of accepting step 1. (which nihilists reject/deny) problem solution. The latter does not follow/exist without the former. basic 2+2 = 4 logic. There's no point figuring out the answer to the math equation, if we don't agree first and foremost a problem exists. Nor how to solve a disease, if we don't first and foremost recognize a disease exists. And so, Any debate with nihilists on step 2: of determining what is the most likely solution / right answer becomes irrelevent and a waste of time. Arguing about whether x or y IS the right answer to fixing/preventing diabetes is pointless when they don't even agree the really disease exists. They don't believe an actual real BAD / Problem exists.
VG reduces it down to mere preferences, his reasonings that even if universally sentience prefers not suffebe tortured... Well, just because it is the case descriptively we prefer to avoid suffering doesn't mean we ought/should prevent suffering. He hasn't bridged the IS-OUGHT gap. But he got it backwards,
the claim/argument... ISN'T that because descriptively, sentience universally has a preference to avoid suffering, it is therefore bad,
the claim/argument... IS that it's descriptively bad/problematic, therefore universally there's a deductively logically assigned preference to avoid it,
Again you can't classify/label something as a problem if it's inconsequential whether it is solved or not. The word loses all meaning. If something NEEDs solving/fixing it means there's a problem, if there's a problem it means there's something NEED solving/fixing. Evolution manufactures these needy problems in organisms to manipulate and control them.
Merely what our preferences are IS NOT relevant, preference "frustration" arguably IS. (if preferences couldn't be frustrated "i.e., no value" than it wouldn't matter which way things turned out)
You can have a preference for some art style over another, if we were just programmed non-feeling robots that preferred to avoid standing in the fire, but there was no real kernel of value/bad, then it wouldn't matter.
Let's imagine something was Objectively PROBLEMATIC, an IS statement. What would a real problem look like? something in NEED of a solution. Again, why? because If it doesn't matter whether or not it exists or is Solved or not, it could never be a problem in the first place. So either this problem exists or it doesn't. (NOTE: it doesn't need to be an objective problem to be REAL, "i.e mind-independent")
Next, if ASI or sentient beings were to sample this "problem", would it not be the case they would logically deduce it's in need of a solution? And assign their preferences accordingly to solving it? Cause again otherwise then you just see it as "no-problemo" again.
"If Inmendham's argument is that sentient beings create value, and that the universe has no value without the presence of a sentient being generating it, would it not follow that the ought is inherently built into sensation?" yes but the way VG unfairly reframes it is that we subjectively place value on it, THAT it's entirely subjective, like you prefer salty or sweet, or certain ice cream flavor. emphasizing that it's entirely subjective opinion. Take a look at his unfair silly example: "we can't say pineapple on pizza is objectively tasty or not..." this shows a complete ineptitude in grasping the subject and misrepresenting the argument like crazy, no one is arguing whether Mona Lisa is objectively beautiful or some such thing.
What is being argued: the positive or negative mind-dependent event produced in response to the sensual or perceptual stimuli, the input (object) is irrelevant, only the output (experience) matters and what the value-engine (BRAIN) produced. What pushes your buttons so to speak, blue jelly beans or green jelly beans, could differ between 2 individuals but the shared experience is the same more or less. Whether you wired to find pineapple on pizza tasty or gross is irrelevant, some people find bricks edible.
Main issue is they talking past each other: what inmendham is arguing for was either not expressed as best it could be, and/or VG does not quite comprehend what is being argued... inmendham claims/argues evolution created the real bad/PROBLEM and we respond in recognition of this fact/truth with preferences that follow accordingly, Logic cannot be escaped, once you know 2+2 = 4, you can't will or believe it to be 79. If you know the right answer "torture be Bad M'kay?" obviously you won't act or behave otherwise and say you love it. What could it mean to have a preference against experiencing torture... does such a statement even make any sense? All that is required is a real BAD to exist... and then the preference to avoid it logically follows, an inescapable truth. Unless he thinks I also choose or prefer to believe 2+2 = 4 ?
Essentially VG keeps counter-arguing that: "yes we want to avoid torture, but that's just your preference... just cause universally sentience has a preference against torture (a Descriptive / IS statement) doesn't logically follow some Normative/Prescriptive claim/statement. That just because something IS the case it doesn't follow that we OUGHT / should do X, like help others, prevent suffering, etc. That's a non-sequitur he says. Ultimately it's just a preference." sure but...
His argument only applies/counters a strawman position in his head: Because of this I and other realists can account for / side-step it completely, we aren't attempting to derive an OUGHT from an IS. e.g strawman: "we ALL have preference against torture, Therefore it's BAD." Or "we ALL have preference against torture, Therefore we OUGHT prevent it"
The actual argument is that it's Truly Bad/Problematic by the very nature of the word, Therefore first-hand observation follows universally a deductively logically assigned preference to avoid it. Not the other way around.
"If the only thing that can have meaning in the universe is the experience of a sentient being, ought we not maximize its value just by nature of its experience being the only thing that can matter?" yes the ought is a further logical extension of recognizing it to be a problem, which denotes/demands a solution, otherwise if it doesn't matter to solve it or not then you've turned it into a non-problem again. So it can only be categorically one or the other.
Issue of semantics, different terminology and definitions: as long as VG defines objective as "mind-independent" and sets the goal-post to the realist to find a mind-independent "wrong/bad" as if somehow we need some divine-command or absolute rule in the universe that declares it so... then there is no fruit to the discussion. suffering/bad takes place in the mind/experience, so of course it's unfair to ask one to present a mind-independent suffering/bad in the universe, it is begging the question. To be fair inmendham uses the term objective and could have done better job with defining/pushing his terms "e.g. objective as truth/real/fact" and not let VG impose in his own. However, I don't ascribe a requirement to demonstrate an Objective BAD to ground a BAD as real, valid, and true; it can be entirely based on Subjectivist grounds/axiomatic foundations.
Just because the BAD takes place within subjectivity doesn't make it any less real (non-physical/immaterial sure... but not unreal). VG and nihilists can't understand this. 2+2 = 4 is subjective as is all science ultimately as a root axiomatic-fact... as an observation requires an observer. This doesn't mean realism can't be proven/grounded, it can just like we can know 2+2=4 and the moon exists. If anti-realism is gonna deny subjective truths because it's subjective, then one can't know much of anything and reduces to solipsism. I am more certain I exist and the reality of "perceived" BAD I experience is actually a real BAD... THAN that the moon even exists or any other scientific empirical claim.
PROBLEM is something I/we/animals had Nothing to do with, we didn't invent it.
If Anti-realism nihilism was True and Real "PROBLEMS" didn't exist the word wouldn't exist. It is like being born never knowing or seeing or experiencing vision & color, it's impossible to contrive or imagine it. Some knowledge & information is only accessible through experience.
Even Richard Dawkins stated, "pain is a message to the animal Don't do that again!"
If the ought exists within subjectivity, as preferences, why would them being Subjective vs Objective determine whether or not their violation matters? If one experiences disgust looking at something AND another finds beauty... both are true realities for them, they don't conflict or contradict like empirical or fact claims, but instead both are correct and relevant, not one or the other, BECAUSE when someone says the mona Lisa is beautiful they are just saying it arises in them a sense of beauty, the thing/input is irrelevant whereas the output in mind is what is relevant and true for their reality.
Subjective =/= not true, I don't understand the dichotomy between objective vs subjective ethics, as if there isn't facts to glean about subjectivity.
There's also definition or semantic problems:
objective (mind-independent) vs subjective (mind-dependent)
Under such definition does it make sense to say Objectively evolution created feeling experiencing organisms having sense of taste, smell, sound, hunger, pain, to survive. So can we apply word objective to mind-dependent experiences or not?
And of course under such definition there is no objective mind-independent ethics as without minds there is no feeling subject of concern to even talk about in first place. So how silly...
Yet they take objective to mean True & Subjective made up or mere contrived opinion.
For me these are semantic word games that distract, I just care about what's fact/true. What many don't get is Even science, math is subjective invention, byproduct of subjective tool of language, doesn't mean we can't create an accurate model and picture of reality.
I believe the Is-Ought gap is a red-herring, sure it's true you can't contrive an Ought from just what IS, but with evolution the OUGHT statement is built-in, it's descriptively a prescriptive value statement imposed on me, I/we/animals literally have nothing to do with it, I'm just by-product an observer. This is key understanding.
There exists no objective or divine commandment "you OUGHT do X" written into the fabric of reality, and therefore if you don't that's Bad, No. That's nonsense/impossible logically.
Rather an Descriptive IS statement of X is a real bad/PROBLEM, denotes/demands a solution by it's very nature of the word, otherwise if it doesn't need solving then it becomes into a non-problem again, so either x categorically IS a PROBLEM or it's not.
The claim/argument... Is that it's Descriptively BAD/Problematic, therefore universally there's a deductively logically assigned preference to avoid it. Not the other way around. Our personal preference against torture forever doesn't make it therefore bad. The prescription is built in, forced onto us.
It's like "STOP!" & "GO" What do you say to a dog? "BAD dog!" This is saying it should or shouldn't do something. basically = "No!" "Stop!" That's a prescriptive statement/signal/conveyed message.
Or simply, alls required is Descriptively diagnose Torture as Problematic. Which implies Problem Solution Without necessity of solution there is no problem at all, likewise without problem solution means nothing.
​So you essentially boiled my position down to: "Evolution programmed preference to avoid torture." or "we evolved preference to avoid torture" Does that sound incoherent or what... as if I would make such a silly claim. Keep straw-manning.
Do you think animals have PREFERENCE by default to avoid being tortured burned alive and have sex, or logically preferences are born out of observing problematic negative / positive assigned accordingly through punishment & reward mechanisms aka prescriptions, think long and hard about this one...
This is why value or ethical nihilism is incoherent to me. IF torture be bad, how can it be NOT-bad/neutral to create BAD?
It either is truly BAD or it isn't. It's either real or it's an illusion/delusion and false perception.
Their position must reduce to there is no MEANINGFUL difference between Torture & Bliss. And evolution didn't create any problematic sensation or true punishment whatsoever. Instead, were somehow deluded to view being boiling alive as problematic sensation/BAD, and relief as good, we can't tell the difference or label which is which...
Vegan Gains or any anti-realist needs to substantiate these anti-realist nihilist claims & concede if he agrees with the statements below:
"The value-laden problematic BAD experience of being tortured boiled alive in a vat of acid indefinitely... isn't really bad, evolution didn't successfully impose a real negative punishment mechanism on animals, torture isn't something I/we/animals had nothing to do with and are just byproduct observing the imposition, NO! Instead our opinion has everything to do with it... what's problematic torture, one is merely subjectively interpreting/inventing/proclaiming it to be so! Evolution failed!"
"Animals run from fire cause they irrationally unreasonably subjectively interpret it to be bad/problematic sensation or experience, not cause DNA molecule made it so objectively for evolutionary reasons"
"It is all subjective preference like flavor of potato chips, problematic torturous experience isn't bad you just think it's bad or have preference against it."
"You don't logically recognize intrinsic problematic torturous experience then logically assign solution to problem which is preference to avoid that experience, No, you merely have subjective delusional preference against a nail in your eye and there is no logic to it"
"Good is Bad, and Bad is Good depending on opinion, no right or wrong, all subjective tho"
value anti-realism nihilism. INSANE! WORSE than a flat-earth theory!

TL;DR: Matched with a seemingly great guy on Bumble, hit it off well, moved to texting and phone calls, only to have him "test" me on our first disagreement about who should pay on dates. Despite forgiving him, he responded with hateful accusations, leaving me to move on from his manipulative behaviour.
Hey everyone,
I need some advice on a situation that’s been bothering me. Here’s the full story:
I (32) matched with this guy (37) on Bumble recently, and we hit it off immediately. We spent hours texting and eventually, we moved to a phone call that lasted several hours. We got along so well that he mentioned he would have liked to take me out that day, but he already had plans with his friends to watch an F1 race and a football match. I appreciated his honesty and told him it was fine, and we continued talking throughout the day, even while he was with his friends. It was going SPLENDIDLY!
However, out of nowhere, he made a condescending comment about my Instagram, saying it looks like he’d have to sell a kidney to take a girl like me out. I found it extremely offensive and told him that while I’m financially comfortable and can pay for myself, I do have standards when it comes to dating. I expect a man who asks me out on a date to be willing to pay for it. If a man doesn’t pay, I see it as going out as friends, and I wouldn’t consider a second date. He then doubled down, saying he was new in town and unsure where to take me because I seemed to have an extravagant lifestyle.
I clarified that I didn’t expect an extravagant first date and had a favourite bar in mind that’s quite economical due to my regular patron status there. But I wasn't sure if I was interested in moving forward with him because this had gotten too weird and uncomfortable for me.
He then admitted he was TESTING me because he has a lot of money and didn’t want to be used for it - Mentioning his FERRARI, while he was at it, which I had frankly assumed was a rental, I didn't give it a second thought or glance. He then said he was very disappointed in me accused me of being like other women who expect men to pay — He called me a Gold Digger in so many words. I found this extremely manipulative, insulting, offensive and downright disrespectful and told him so and asked him to fuck right off! Just for the record - I am also rather well-off. Not only do I make decent money, but my parents are also financially well-off.
Despite my frustration, he apologised profusely and asked for a second chance, claiming he was wrong to test me and that he genuinely wanted to get to know me better. I told him I appreciated the apology but couldn’t get past the disrespect and the implications of his “test.” I made it clear that his behaviour had made me feel judged and uncomfortable, and I didn’t see how we could move forward.
He kept insisting, saying we could laugh about this misunderstanding later and that he’d make it up to me. I reiterated that I didn’t want to feel scrutinised or judged every time we interacted, and that this incident had soured my perception of him. I told him it was best to part ways and ended the conversation. He asked me to sleep on it, and I did.
The next morning, I sent him a text to formally close things off, but on a good note, saying:
"We definitely had a fun and interesting day, but we both know this isn't going to work out! I truly enjoyed our time together and our roller coaster of a conversation. Most people don't even have dates as fun and intriguing as this! But sadly, this is the end of the road for us. I do truly wish you the very best with everything, and I'm glad we ran into each other. Take care and be well! 💗"
He didn’t respond to that text, but he continued to view my Instagram stories, which I found really passive-aggressive. So, I followed up with:
"Hey, I noticed you didn't respond to my last message. I just wanted to say that I tried to be respectful and honour the conversation we had because I genuinely valued it. It would have meant a lot to hear back from you, even just a simple acknowledgment. Regardless, I wish you all the best."
His response to that was unexpectedly hostile. He accused me of being selfish and only caring about my own feelings. He claimed he had already responded to my earlier texts and accused me of being stubborn and ungrateful for the time he spent talking to me. His tone was rude and accusatory, which only reinforced my decision to end things.
I replied, explaining how his actions had made me feel judged and disrespected. I pointed out that despite enjoying our conversation, his test and subsequent behavior were major red flags. I told him I was disappointed by his hostility and that I was hoping for a more respectful closure.
He left my final message on “seen” and hasn’t responded since. Which is fine. Screw him.
I'm not looking for advice on how to get back with him. I’m just trying to process this and move on. Any tips on how to deal with such a disappointing end to what seemed like a promising connection? Because I hadn't been this super excited to go out in a VERY long time!
Thanks for reading.
Add : I want to clarify that the pictures on my Instagram are not of me partying. While there's nothing wrong with that, my posts are actually about my workouts, the food and drinks I enjoy, and my travels around the world. You'll see photos of me flying business and first class, wearing stylish clothes and accessories. Importantly, there are no men in these pictures—just my girlfriends and my sister. So whatever dumb shit he assumed and said was dumb as hell!