How do i make a peace out sign on facebook
Learn Useless Talents
2012.06.07 00:14 Billobatch Learn Useless Talents
This is a place to learn how to do cool things that have no use other than killing time and impressing strangers.
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Tell Redditors who you think they are based on their picture.
2024.05.21 15:16 angim350 [ASMR Roleplay] [F4A] You move in with your nervous girlfriend [internal monologue] [sweet] [reassurance] [making out] [seductive]
Hey all!
So the premise here is that a young couple are moving in together for the first time, and it's a brief look at their first evening and morning together. I've written it as a girlfriend as this is actually based on real events, but the listener can be anyone. Girlfriend can also be changed to boyfriend if preferable :)
Fine to monetize, just give me credit and link back here :) also, if anyone wants to fill this, awesome!!!
There is a mix of internal and external monologue here. Hope I've kept that clear in the text but, if not, please let me know!
Girlfriend
(knocking on the door)
Hello! Is anyone here? Oh, hi! Sorry I’m a bit late. Took ages to load up the car. Hmm? Sorry, I know you have other clients! Yeah, of course, I’m sure they’re on the way.
(internal, sarcastically)
Well, this estate agent seems lovely. Is she actually going to let me in?
(spoken)
Are we okay to wait inside? I think it’s going to rain. Thankyou…
(internal)
I still can’t believe we’re doing this! I hope I haven’t brought too much stuff. They said they’re barely bringing anything! Oh, this place looks a little dusty! Floor’s a bit messy! I’ll have to give it a clean. God, I hope they don’t lose patience with me. Their room at home always seems so tidy, but I know their mum is a bit of a clean freak too.
(spoken)
Sorry? Yeah, this is our first place together. We’ve been going out for three years and I just got a new job, so we figured why not? Renting for now, but hoping to buy a place in a year or two.
(internal)
If they don’t run a mile after living with me for a few weeks. I’m okay to live with, right? My housemates didn’t have an issue at [insert Uni or college, depending on location]. Oh god, what if…
(spoken)
Sorry, I’m here now. Oh yeah, I remember I really liked this kitchen! New oven, cool! Tell the landlord thanks! Yeah, I may as well start signing everything whilst we wait. I’m really sure they won’t be much longer.
The sound of knocking.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
Oh, that’ll be them now! Come up! We’re just in the kitchen. Hey!
(internal)
Ah man, I still get jittery when they smile at me like that! I still can’t believe we’re doing this. I know we spend all our weekends and most evenings together but it is going to be different, actually living together. We need to get a joint account set up, we’re going to need to go shopping ASAP – there’s literally nothing in! The internet people better turn up tomorrow! I’ve only got [speaker to insert their favourite show] boxsets for us to watch and I’m not sure that’s their thing…
(spoken)
Sorry, I was miles away. So we both sign here? Oh, rules? Okay?
(internal)
Gosh, do they think we’re going to be throwing mad parties every week? We’re not kids! Security deposit? We know this already! Ah, I shouldn’t be so harsh. She’s just doing her job. But does she have to act like we’re planning on burning the place down? Oh, one year’s tenancy? No early release? Eeesh, what if they don’t want to stay… oh wow, they signed really quickly!
(spoken)
Thankyou. I don’t think I have any questions. Do you?
(internal)
There’s that smile again. They look so excited! I hope they’re not as nervous as me. Oh, she’s leaving. Good.
(spoken)
Well, here we are. Just the two of us now. No… second thoughts? No, of course not! All my stuff’s outside, is yours? Shall we get it all in first and then think about where everything is going to go? Oh, your dad’s given us that TV? Fantastic! Think my laptop might be about to die!
Around half an hour later…
Girlfriend
(spoken, sounds out of breath)
Okay! Big pile of stuff. Least we got it in.
(internal)
How do they only have like three suitcases? I couldn’t even fit everything in my car!
(spoken)
I knew I shouldn’t have brought so many books! No idea where we’re going to put them. And the bathroom really is small! I know we said we didn’t mind, but…
Sound of a kiss.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
I love you too. Sorry, I’m overthinking things again. How are you feeling? I know! Still can’t quite believe we have our own place. We really needed it. I swear my dad was deliberately being annoying half the time. Always banging around downstairs! Shush, I’m not just like him! He’ll be okay. He’s got mum. I guess it must be weird with all your kids gone.
(internal)
Dad was so great about everything. Maybe I should have let him come help us move in, but I kind of wanted this to just be us.
(spoken)
Yeah, let’s take a proper look around.
(internal)
I need to chill. This place is really nice, especially for the price. I love the living room. Still can’t believe the sofa and chairs came with the flat. The sofa looks so comfortable. I can’t wait for us to snuggle up on there. They even left a little reading lamp in the corner! I hope they don’t mind if I want to just read some nights. They didn’t really seem to before, but now it’s just us all the time…
Ahhh, I wish the bathroom was bigger! The shower’s a bit ancient. I dunno if we’d both fit in… shit, now they can see me blushing, great! Let’s move out of here quickly!
Really good cupboard space for a small bedroom. I’ve got so many clothes though. I may need to use some of their space as well! Dad was right. I should have had a clear out before I came.
(spoken, laughing)
Don’t jump on the bed like that! Because it’s all tidy! Yeah, I know nobody’s coming round today, but… I am chilled! Wait, what? Okay, fine, I’ll try it out. Yeah, it is very comfy.
(internal)
They smell so good today. I love it when they wear this. I don’t even know what it is. Guess I’ll be seeing it in the bathroom, so I know what to get them for their birthday.
Sound of kissing.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
Are you happy we’ve done this?
(internal)
It’s weird how right this feels. I know it’s just the two of us here now, and I don’t feel nervous. This is just so cool.
(spoken)
What? Let you show me? How… oh….
Sound of kissing and giggling.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
Hey you. We have a lot of unpacking to… oh, you’re so mean.
More kissing.
Girlfriend
(internal)
I love it when they stroke my hair like this. Okay, pinning my hands above my head. That’s… new. Kinda like it though. It is so good that nobody can possibly disturb us. We can literally do anything we want to! Okay, my cheeks feel like they’re on fire. Typical.
(spoken)
Okay, we can, ohhh…
(internal)
I could get used to this.
The next morning…
Girlfriend
(internal)
What time is it? Must be getting late, it’s so bright in here. We need better curtains! This bed is so comfy though. I must have fallen asleep so quickly last night. Urgh, I’m so groggy in the morning. Wait, where are they? Can I hear noises in the kitchen? And what’s that smell? Oh, they must be cooking something. Bless them. I’m still so full from last night. It was so awesome to just have the night together in our own place! They’re getting better at cooking. I’ll need to make us something tonight.
I better get up soon. It’s just so warm in here. Ah, I need the bathroom. I still feel a bit awkward about that, but they’re so lovely about it. I’ll just sneak in now…
(spoken)
Oh hey! I thought you were in the kitchen. Oh, what you carrying? Wow, breakfast in bed! Thanks!
Sound of eating.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
Oh man, this is so good! When did you become a Michelin Chef? Your mum usually cooks for us!
(internal)
How do they look so awesome even though they’ve just woke up? I bet I look a right mess. Ah, there’s that smile again.
(spoken)
What? Haha, pull the other one. If there’s one thing I look like now, it isn’t beautiful. Have you seen my hair? Looks like I’ve been dragged through a hedge backwards. Okay, now you’re just teasing me! I guess I better get dressed in a sec. How long you been up? An hour? You’ve been trying to build the TV stand? How’s that gone? Oh…
(internal)
Bless them. They really aren’t very good at DIY. Good thing the landlord should take care of any repairs we need. My bookshelf should arrive today. Might be better to get Dad to come help us with that. If they’re not offended.
(spoken)
Okay, I am full! That was awesome though, thankyou! I’ll cook tonight. Unless you wanted to try that takeaway we saw round the corner… haha, you really know me so well.
Sound of kissing.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
Okay, I’ll jump in the shower then I’ll come and help you! There’s something I wanted to give you as well. I meant to last night but by the time we got everything unpacked I forgot! It’s in my bag, hold on, I’ll get it.
(internal)
They’re so cute. I can see them checking me out. Don’t know what’s so hot about these pyjamas. They’re like three years old and literally have super-heroes on them. Oh god, why did I wear… no, I can’t keep overthinking this stuff. Not if we’re going to live together.
(spoken)
Here it is! I got it custom made. Open it.
Sound of ripping paper.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
It’s that picture I took of you and Bounce a few years back. Remember, for one of our first dates you took me for a walk in the forest with her? We almost lost her when she tried to chase after a bird? I know you’re going to miss her living here, so I thought you’d like a picture of her. I’d say she could come round any time, but I don’t think we’re allowed pets.
(internal)
Ah man, I hope this is okay. They really love that dog and I know it was hard on them to leave them.
(spoken)
You love it? Of course, you’re welcome! I love you too.
Sound of kissing.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
You know I over think everything and I’m a little, well, full-on sometimes, but I just want you to know I’m so happy we’ve done this. I can’t wait for, well, everything! You mean the world to me, and I’m so happy you want to live with me.
(pause, then spoken)
Here’s to the next forever!
submitted by angim350 to ASMRScriptHaven [link] [comments]
So the premise here is that a young couple are moving in together for the first time, and it's a brief look at their first evening and morning together. I've written it as a girlfriend as this is actually based on real events, but the listener can be anyone. Girlfriend can also be changed to boyfriend if preferable :)
Fine to monetize, just give me credit and link back here :) also, if anyone wants to fill this, awesome!!!
There is a mix of internal and external monologue here. Hope I've kept that clear in the text but, if not, please let me know!
Girlfriend
(knocking on the door)
Hello! Is anyone here? Oh, hi! Sorry I’m a bit late. Took ages to load up the car. Hmm? Sorry, I know you have other clients! Yeah, of course, I’m sure they’re on the way.
(internal, sarcastically)
Well, this estate agent seems lovely. Is she actually going to let me in?
(spoken)
Are we okay to wait inside? I think it’s going to rain. Thankyou…
(internal)
I still can’t believe we’re doing this! I hope I haven’t brought too much stuff. They said they’re barely bringing anything! Oh, this place looks a little dusty! Floor’s a bit messy! I’ll have to give it a clean. God, I hope they don’t lose patience with me. Their room at home always seems so tidy, but I know their mum is a bit of a clean freak too.
(spoken)
Sorry? Yeah, this is our first place together. We’ve been going out for three years and I just got a new job, so we figured why not? Renting for now, but hoping to buy a place in a year or two.
(internal)
If they don’t run a mile after living with me for a few weeks. I’m okay to live with, right? My housemates didn’t have an issue at [insert Uni or college, depending on location]. Oh god, what if…
(spoken)
Sorry, I’m here now. Oh yeah, I remember I really liked this kitchen! New oven, cool! Tell the landlord thanks! Yeah, I may as well start signing everything whilst we wait. I’m really sure they won’t be much longer.
The sound of knocking.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
Oh, that’ll be them now! Come up! We’re just in the kitchen. Hey!
(internal)
Ah man, I still get jittery when they smile at me like that! I still can’t believe we’re doing this. I know we spend all our weekends and most evenings together but it is going to be different, actually living together. We need to get a joint account set up, we’re going to need to go shopping ASAP – there’s literally nothing in! The internet people better turn up tomorrow! I’ve only got [speaker to insert their favourite show] boxsets for us to watch and I’m not sure that’s their thing…
(spoken)
Sorry, I was miles away. So we both sign here? Oh, rules? Okay?
(internal)
Gosh, do they think we’re going to be throwing mad parties every week? We’re not kids! Security deposit? We know this already! Ah, I shouldn’t be so harsh. She’s just doing her job. But does she have to act like we’re planning on burning the place down? Oh, one year’s tenancy? No early release? Eeesh, what if they don’t want to stay… oh wow, they signed really quickly!
(spoken)
Thankyou. I don’t think I have any questions. Do you?
(internal)
There’s that smile again. They look so excited! I hope they’re not as nervous as me. Oh, she’s leaving. Good.
(spoken)
Well, here we are. Just the two of us now. No… second thoughts? No, of course not! All my stuff’s outside, is yours? Shall we get it all in first and then think about where everything is going to go? Oh, your dad’s given us that TV? Fantastic! Think my laptop might be about to die!
Around half an hour later…
Girlfriend
(spoken, sounds out of breath)
Okay! Big pile of stuff. Least we got it in.
(internal)
How do they only have like three suitcases? I couldn’t even fit everything in my car!
(spoken)
I knew I shouldn’t have brought so many books! No idea where we’re going to put them. And the bathroom really is small! I know we said we didn’t mind, but…
Sound of a kiss.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
I love you too. Sorry, I’m overthinking things again. How are you feeling? I know! Still can’t quite believe we have our own place. We really needed it. I swear my dad was deliberately being annoying half the time. Always banging around downstairs! Shush, I’m not just like him! He’ll be okay. He’s got mum. I guess it must be weird with all your kids gone.
(internal)
Dad was so great about everything. Maybe I should have let him come help us move in, but I kind of wanted this to just be us.
(spoken)
Yeah, let’s take a proper look around.
(internal)
I need to chill. This place is really nice, especially for the price. I love the living room. Still can’t believe the sofa and chairs came with the flat. The sofa looks so comfortable. I can’t wait for us to snuggle up on there. They even left a little reading lamp in the corner! I hope they don’t mind if I want to just read some nights. They didn’t really seem to before, but now it’s just us all the time…
Ahhh, I wish the bathroom was bigger! The shower’s a bit ancient. I dunno if we’d both fit in… shit, now they can see me blushing, great! Let’s move out of here quickly!
Really good cupboard space for a small bedroom. I’ve got so many clothes though. I may need to use some of their space as well! Dad was right. I should have had a clear out before I came.
(spoken, laughing)
Don’t jump on the bed like that! Because it’s all tidy! Yeah, I know nobody’s coming round today, but… I am chilled! Wait, what? Okay, fine, I’ll try it out. Yeah, it is very comfy.
(internal)
They smell so good today. I love it when they wear this. I don’t even know what it is. Guess I’ll be seeing it in the bathroom, so I know what to get them for their birthday.
Sound of kissing.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
Are you happy we’ve done this?
(internal)
It’s weird how right this feels. I know it’s just the two of us here now, and I don’t feel nervous. This is just so cool.
(spoken)
What? Let you show me? How… oh….
Sound of kissing and giggling.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
Hey you. We have a lot of unpacking to… oh, you’re so mean.
More kissing.
Girlfriend
(internal)
I love it when they stroke my hair like this. Okay, pinning my hands above my head. That’s… new. Kinda like it though. It is so good that nobody can possibly disturb us. We can literally do anything we want to! Okay, my cheeks feel like they’re on fire. Typical.
(spoken)
Okay, we can, ohhh…
(internal)
I could get used to this.
The next morning…
Girlfriend
(internal)
What time is it? Must be getting late, it’s so bright in here. We need better curtains! This bed is so comfy though. I must have fallen asleep so quickly last night. Urgh, I’m so groggy in the morning. Wait, where are they? Can I hear noises in the kitchen? And what’s that smell? Oh, they must be cooking something. Bless them. I’m still so full from last night. It was so awesome to just have the night together in our own place! They’re getting better at cooking. I’ll need to make us something tonight.
I better get up soon. It’s just so warm in here. Ah, I need the bathroom. I still feel a bit awkward about that, but they’re so lovely about it. I’ll just sneak in now…
(spoken)
Oh hey! I thought you were in the kitchen. Oh, what you carrying? Wow, breakfast in bed! Thanks!
Sound of eating.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
Oh man, this is so good! When did you become a Michelin Chef? Your mum usually cooks for us!
(internal)
How do they look so awesome even though they’ve just woke up? I bet I look a right mess. Ah, there’s that smile again.
(spoken)
What? Haha, pull the other one. If there’s one thing I look like now, it isn’t beautiful. Have you seen my hair? Looks like I’ve been dragged through a hedge backwards. Okay, now you’re just teasing me! I guess I better get dressed in a sec. How long you been up? An hour? You’ve been trying to build the TV stand? How’s that gone? Oh…
(internal)
Bless them. They really aren’t very good at DIY. Good thing the landlord should take care of any repairs we need. My bookshelf should arrive today. Might be better to get Dad to come help us with that. If they’re not offended.
(spoken)
Okay, I am full! That was awesome though, thankyou! I’ll cook tonight. Unless you wanted to try that takeaway we saw round the corner… haha, you really know me so well.
Sound of kissing.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
Okay, I’ll jump in the shower then I’ll come and help you! There’s something I wanted to give you as well. I meant to last night but by the time we got everything unpacked I forgot! It’s in my bag, hold on, I’ll get it.
(internal)
They’re so cute. I can see them checking me out. Don’t know what’s so hot about these pyjamas. They’re like three years old and literally have super-heroes on them. Oh god, why did I wear… no, I can’t keep overthinking this stuff. Not if we’re going to live together.
(spoken)
Here it is! I got it custom made. Open it.
Sound of ripping paper.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
It’s that picture I took of you and Bounce a few years back. Remember, for one of our first dates you took me for a walk in the forest with her? We almost lost her when she tried to chase after a bird? I know you’re going to miss her living here, so I thought you’d like a picture of her. I’d say she could come round any time, but I don’t think we’re allowed pets.
(internal)
Ah man, I hope this is okay. They really love that dog and I know it was hard on them to leave them.
(spoken)
You love it? Of course, you’re welcome! I love you too.
Sound of kissing.
Girlfriend
(spoken)
You know I over think everything and I’m a little, well, full-on sometimes, but I just want you to know I’m so happy we’ve done this. I can’t wait for, well, everything! You mean the world to me, and I’m so happy you want to live with me.
(pause, then spoken)
Here’s to the next forever!
2024.05.21 15:15 emotionally_drained7 I wish it wasn't my birthday
Because then I could just have a regular disappointing day instead of an extra disappointing day.
I got two cards this morning, one from my husband that is so far from anything that applies to me and another one from my kids that they didn't even get to sign for me because God forbid should my husband take 10 extra minutes and include them.
I have running around to do with all 5 kids after school, so it's a busy night, but I'm pretty certain there will be no cake or little trinkets because "birthdays aren't that big of a deal" to my husband. But they're a big deal to me, and I make them a big deal for everyone else in my life. But we all know that doesn't matter when you're married to a narc.
I spend everyday of my life serving my family, and I just wish more than anything else that I could have a day where I'm made to feel as special as I try to make them feel. Of course I don't blame my kids, they're too young to do anything on their own, but almost all of them are old enough to recognize that this won't be like anyone else's birthday. Why doesn't mom get the same birthday celebration? Because mom's not doing it for herself.
My parents want to take us all out later in the week for ice cream to celebrate, so I'm thankful for that, but honestly I just want to forget about it all. It's just a reminder of the fact that my husband can't be bothered.
I've been so strong lately, not letting him get to me, but today I am weak and sad. I'll be doing paperwork, straightening up the house, folding clothes and making dinner with my 2 year old before I pick the other kids up from school, and I'll try not to let the Facebook birthday notifications trigger me: " Happy birthday! Have fun celebrating with your beautiful family!" Sure, I'll try.
Thank you all for being here and letting me get it all out.
submitted by emotionally_drained7 to NarcissisticSpouses [link] [comments]
I got two cards this morning, one from my husband that is so far from anything that applies to me and another one from my kids that they didn't even get to sign for me because God forbid should my husband take 10 extra minutes and include them.
I have running around to do with all 5 kids after school, so it's a busy night, but I'm pretty certain there will be no cake or little trinkets because "birthdays aren't that big of a deal" to my husband. But they're a big deal to me, and I make them a big deal for everyone else in my life. But we all know that doesn't matter when you're married to a narc.
I spend everyday of my life serving my family, and I just wish more than anything else that I could have a day where I'm made to feel as special as I try to make them feel. Of course I don't blame my kids, they're too young to do anything on their own, but almost all of them are old enough to recognize that this won't be like anyone else's birthday. Why doesn't mom get the same birthday celebration? Because mom's not doing it for herself.
My parents want to take us all out later in the week for ice cream to celebrate, so I'm thankful for that, but honestly I just want to forget about it all. It's just a reminder of the fact that my husband can't be bothered.
I've been so strong lately, not letting him get to me, but today I am weak and sad. I'll be doing paperwork, straightening up the house, folding clothes and making dinner with my 2 year old before I pick the other kids up from school, and I'll try not to let the Facebook birthday notifications trigger me: " Happy birthday! Have fun celebrating with your beautiful family!" Sure, I'll try.
Thank you all for being here and letting me get it all out.
2024.05.21 15:13 snaerr Should I keep on dating this guy?
I (32M) have been seeing this guy (26M) since February. We both go to this combat sports club, he saw me there and shot me a message on grindr the next day. I met him at his place to hookup then we talked a lot naked in the bed and I felt a nice connection I don't often feel. We hooked up again a few days later and since I still felt a nice vibe I asked him out the next weekend. He said he would probably be busy studying (he's a med student) and didn't suggest another time, which made me feel rejected and since my friends told me I was coming on too strong I just dropped the ball and let him be.
A week later he texted me to chat a bit. Then he suggested to meet again to fuck and that's how we became regular fuck buddies (which I'm fine with, that's what I'm usually looking for anyway).
Over the next couple of months he started to warm up, texting me regularly to ask about my days and tell me about his, and our meetings felt more and more intimate. One night, I told him it felt like we were going beyond just fuck buddies and that we should either take a step back and just fuck or we should move forward and date. He told me he had been thinking about it too and he agreed to date.
We've now been dating for the past month and it's going well. I like him, he's ticking a lot of boxes and I feel like he likes me.
When we're together, everything's fine: he's kind, interested and very cuddly. But the problem is that I feel like this dating phase is very unbalanced cause I'm the one instigating our meetings nearly 100% of the time.
I've been cooking dinner for us at my place, offered to watch movies together, I've taken him to restaurants, stuff like that, but he has never asked me out on a date. Granted, he's a med student so busy studying and working a lot, but I feel as if I'm the one who's exclusively pursuing him. And I know it's a bit unfair to say that cause he's reaching out to me regularly and sends me pics of him and keeping me in touch and stuff so it's not as if he's completely passive, but I just miss being pursued lol I feel like he's taking me for granted or something, at least I feel like he's not trying to seduce me and it makes me feel frustrated.
Do you think it's a sign that he's just not that interested and has never been? Should I settle for a guy that I vibe with although I don't feel pursued or seduced? I don't really know how to navigate this
submitted by snaerr to askgaybros [link] [comments]
A week later he texted me to chat a bit. Then he suggested to meet again to fuck and that's how we became regular fuck buddies (which I'm fine with, that's what I'm usually looking for anyway).
Over the next couple of months he started to warm up, texting me regularly to ask about my days and tell me about his, and our meetings felt more and more intimate. One night, I told him it felt like we were going beyond just fuck buddies and that we should either take a step back and just fuck or we should move forward and date. He told me he had been thinking about it too and he agreed to date.
We've now been dating for the past month and it's going well. I like him, he's ticking a lot of boxes and I feel like he likes me.
When we're together, everything's fine: he's kind, interested and very cuddly. But the problem is that I feel like this dating phase is very unbalanced cause I'm the one instigating our meetings nearly 100% of the time.
I've been cooking dinner for us at my place, offered to watch movies together, I've taken him to restaurants, stuff like that, but he has never asked me out on a date. Granted, he's a med student so busy studying and working a lot, but I feel as if I'm the one who's exclusively pursuing him. And I know it's a bit unfair to say that cause he's reaching out to me regularly and sends me pics of him and keeping me in touch and stuff so it's not as if he's completely passive, but I just miss being pursued lol I feel like he's taking me for granted or something, at least I feel like he's not trying to seduce me and it makes me feel frustrated.
Do you think it's a sign that he's just not that interested and has never been? Should I settle for a guy that I vibe with although I don't feel pursued or seduced? I don't really know how to navigate this
2024.05.21 15:06 sockmunkie22 [UPDATE 2] AITJ for cutting my SIL out of my life, even if it upsets the family norms?
Original Post: https://www.reddit.com/AmITheJerk/comments/1csum48/aitj_for_cutting_my_sil_out_of_my_life_even_if_it/
Update 1: https://www.reddit.com/AmITheJerk/comments/1cu5yfv/update_1_aitj_for_cutting_my_sil_out_of_my_life/
So as ya'll know, Myself, Fern and Tom had planned some Mother's Day gifts for MIL. I gotta admit, I was worried that Margaret would show up and ruin the whole thing, but it was actually a surprisingly good day- mostly because she wasn't there, which was the OBVIOUS elephant in the room the whole time. Tom worked the grill for a while and we had MIL open the gifts I had planned - it was a small pirate chest filled with letters from Myself, Fern, and Tom telling her how wonderful of a mother she was (I had aged them and weathered them to look waterlogged and like they'd been around for a long time). I made her a boondoggle that said "number one mom" that had our names dangling from it. She opened the collage...the whole thing left her in happy tears, which was nice but also sad at the same time. She said "OP, you're such a shit for making me cry" then gave me a big hug. MIL started to talk about it all ("It's been really rough and I've been having a really hard time"), but it was cut off by the men fussing over the grill. I made the rest of lunch and we had a really, really good time for the most part.
I clocked FIL's behavior in Margaret's absence. He wandered off into the yard and stood by himself for extended periods of time, staring at the ground in silence. I registered it as pain- I'm not gonna lie, it was PALPABLE how much easier and fun and quiet the afternoon was with Margaret being intentionally excluded. I could tell that MIL really needed to talk about what was going on, especially since she was being absolutely flooded with love (in stark contrast to what she's been receiving from Margaret). I approached her towards the end of the evening- she revealed to me what she had put in the letter. Essentially, it reads something like this.
"dear Margaret- I am sorry that we are having such a hard time seeing eye to eye. I have had my conflicts with Fern and Tom in the past that we have been able to resolve; Since you do not wish to speak to me directly, I am hoping that we can communicate this way to see each other more clearly. I think youre upset with me because I married your dad- but I am not sure because you will not tell me what is wrong. I want to make peace with you, but I cannot do that with you so blatantly disrespecting me. I feel like I deserve an apology- I feel used by you, especially since I signed your lease for you when you asked right before this happened. Please write me back so we can resolve this, I love you."
Apparently, MIL had FIL read it before she sent it- this looks like a last ditch effort to rectify the tension, but I'm not sure what the outcome will be because we ALL know that Margaret is going to freak the fuck out the second she reads it. Margaret can't handle any blame and has no sense of accountability. We can all see it coming- so definitely expect an update on that.
On the ride home I absolutely fell apart. It made me so sad that she has had to go to these lengths to remedy a situation that she didn't cause in the first place. I was also very, very angry at FIL and basically the whole family for letting this go on for as long as it has.. I ended up confronting Tom about this again. I told him that there are 600 strangers on reddit calling him and his whole family spineless, and that I have found myself defending them because I know otherwise, but that in this situation those 600 strangers are absolutely right. I said that I know his dad is human, but that they are all a bunch of cowards for the "fend for yourself, just let it go" attitude they have when it comes to each of them being so wildly abused and disrespected AS A FAMILY. Fern deserves better than to have a sister that has told ME that "the reason Fern got SA'd as a kid is because h"e put himself out there like that" (excuse me?). Cory deserves better than a wife who threatens to call the cops on him for not making her dinner (huh?) . Tom deserves a better sister than one who has called me to tell me "He's a creep and I bet he's done things to little girls before" (no idea where that one came from). MIL deserves better than someone who asks her for money and favors only to turn around and rip her to shreds (the entitlement?). And FIL deserves better than to have such little self esteem that he'd rather watch his family disintegrate rather than cut out the cancer.
Yeah, I was heated. Margaret makes shit up, takes things out of context, and regularly demonstrates that she genuinely feels the world is out to get her and that everyone else is the problem. I did not let up.
Tom listened very patiently- we exchanged a lot of words and the conversation took over an hour, the end result being "My dad is nearing approachable about this subject. Today showed him the kind of life we can have without her; you definitely launched a psychological bomb at him with how well you planned the day and how much you showed MIL that she's worth something. He's struggling, but I promise that I'll talk to him about it soon. We talk 3 times a week, he knows its coming."
The last statement I made was "I am not an 'on the fence' person. I'm the only one who has outright picked a side- and it's not Margaret's because I refuse to enable this insanity anymore. It's wrong, and you guys are wrong for coddling a grown woman's hurt ego knowing that its harming literally EVERYONE else in the family. Pick a side, and be done with it. I refuse to let MIL go this alone."
We will see how much longer the circus goes on. I anticipate the events that happened this weekend leading to the biggest blow up that Margaret has had yet- the shady online posts have already started (per Tom, who has found it amusing and low of her). It's about to get a lot crazier when this letter hits, and even worse when she eventually visits FIL and sees a giant collage with all the kids except for her.
There's SO many of you that have said that you are emotionally invested in my story- I'll continue to update so we all get the closure we need. Thanks for all the support (and trash talking, I've gotten quite a few LOLs out of the comments).
Stay tuned I guess!
submitted by sockmunkie22 to AmITheJerk [link] [comments]
Update 1: https://www.reddit.com/AmITheJerk/comments/1cu5yfv/update_1_aitj_for_cutting_my_sil_out_of_my_life/
So as ya'll know, Myself, Fern and Tom had planned some Mother's Day gifts for MIL. I gotta admit, I was worried that Margaret would show up and ruin the whole thing, but it was actually a surprisingly good day- mostly because she wasn't there, which was the OBVIOUS elephant in the room the whole time. Tom worked the grill for a while and we had MIL open the gifts I had planned - it was a small pirate chest filled with letters from Myself, Fern, and Tom telling her how wonderful of a mother she was (I had aged them and weathered them to look waterlogged and like they'd been around for a long time). I made her a boondoggle that said "number one mom" that had our names dangling from it. She opened the collage...the whole thing left her in happy tears, which was nice but also sad at the same time. She said "OP, you're such a shit for making me cry" then gave me a big hug. MIL started to talk about it all ("It's been really rough and I've been having a really hard time"), but it was cut off by the men fussing over the grill. I made the rest of lunch and we had a really, really good time for the most part.
I clocked FIL's behavior in Margaret's absence. He wandered off into the yard and stood by himself for extended periods of time, staring at the ground in silence. I registered it as pain- I'm not gonna lie, it was PALPABLE how much easier and fun and quiet the afternoon was with Margaret being intentionally excluded. I could tell that MIL really needed to talk about what was going on, especially since she was being absolutely flooded with love (in stark contrast to what she's been receiving from Margaret). I approached her towards the end of the evening- she revealed to me what she had put in the letter. Essentially, it reads something like this.
"dear Margaret- I am sorry that we are having such a hard time seeing eye to eye. I have had my conflicts with Fern and Tom in the past that we have been able to resolve; Since you do not wish to speak to me directly, I am hoping that we can communicate this way to see each other more clearly. I think youre upset with me because I married your dad- but I am not sure because you will not tell me what is wrong. I want to make peace with you, but I cannot do that with you so blatantly disrespecting me. I feel like I deserve an apology- I feel used by you, especially since I signed your lease for you when you asked right before this happened. Please write me back so we can resolve this, I love you."
Apparently, MIL had FIL read it before she sent it- this looks like a last ditch effort to rectify the tension, but I'm not sure what the outcome will be because we ALL know that Margaret is going to freak the fuck out the second she reads it. Margaret can't handle any blame and has no sense of accountability. We can all see it coming- so definitely expect an update on that.
On the ride home I absolutely fell apart. It made me so sad that she has had to go to these lengths to remedy a situation that she didn't cause in the first place. I was also very, very angry at FIL and basically the whole family for letting this go on for as long as it has.. I ended up confronting Tom about this again. I told him that there are 600 strangers on reddit calling him and his whole family spineless, and that I have found myself defending them because I know otherwise, but that in this situation those 600 strangers are absolutely right. I said that I know his dad is human, but that they are all a bunch of cowards for the "fend for yourself, just let it go" attitude they have when it comes to each of them being so wildly abused and disrespected AS A FAMILY. Fern deserves better than to have a sister that has told ME that "the reason Fern got SA'd as a kid is because h"e put himself out there like that" (excuse me?). Cory deserves better than a wife who threatens to call the cops on him for not making her dinner (huh?) . Tom deserves a better sister than one who has called me to tell me "He's a creep and I bet he's done things to little girls before" (no idea where that one came from). MIL deserves better than someone who asks her for money and favors only to turn around and rip her to shreds (the entitlement?). And FIL deserves better than to have such little self esteem that he'd rather watch his family disintegrate rather than cut out the cancer.
Yeah, I was heated. Margaret makes shit up, takes things out of context, and regularly demonstrates that she genuinely feels the world is out to get her and that everyone else is the problem. I did not let up.
Tom listened very patiently- we exchanged a lot of words and the conversation took over an hour, the end result being "My dad is nearing approachable about this subject. Today showed him the kind of life we can have without her; you definitely launched a psychological bomb at him with how well you planned the day and how much you showed MIL that she's worth something. He's struggling, but I promise that I'll talk to him about it soon. We talk 3 times a week, he knows its coming."
The last statement I made was "I am not an 'on the fence' person. I'm the only one who has outright picked a side- and it's not Margaret's because I refuse to enable this insanity anymore. It's wrong, and you guys are wrong for coddling a grown woman's hurt ego knowing that its harming literally EVERYONE else in the family. Pick a side, and be done with it. I refuse to let MIL go this alone."
We will see how much longer the circus goes on. I anticipate the events that happened this weekend leading to the biggest blow up that Margaret has had yet- the shady online posts have already started (per Tom, who has found it amusing and low of her). It's about to get a lot crazier when this letter hits, and even worse when she eventually visits FIL and sees a giant collage with all the kids except for her.
There's SO many of you that have said that you are emotionally invested in my story- I'll continue to update so we all get the closure we need. Thanks for all the support (and trash talking, I've gotten quite a few LOLs out of the comments).
Stay tuned I guess!
2024.05.21 15:06 dissociativedays How to be okay going no-contact when the guilt is eating me alive?
I was considering going no-contact with my family minus a brother I’m close to 3 years ago and was almost out until my father died in a freak accident and I got roped back in. My sister has spent the last 30 years making my life a living hell and my parents never stuck up for me or protected me from her. My mother, now alone, is terrified of her. We had a shitty childhood and all have different survival tactics, but after going to therapy for four years now, I’ve gotten away from those and surround myself with happy, healthy, amazing, supportive people. In regard to family, I keep my distance when I can (living 3.5 hours away helps), but often am the one everyone turns to when shit goes sideways to fix everything, calm people down, figure out what to do next. I’m tired of it, especially now realizing no one does the same for me.
I recently got married and had a 40 person head count, with 38 yeses. After a bunch of random crap, 13 of my 20 invitees flaked 3 days to 2 hours before the party, all of which were very, very close family members including a brother and two of my BILs. Had I known this, with ample timing, I would have invited more friends who WOULD have shown, but due to family taking up so much of the headcount, I couldn’t extend invites to them all. I vented to my mother who said at least I have my sister coming, who I said was only invited since the others were and she has never been nice to me or my husband - which my mother agreed with and said was a self-centered survival thing. I said she should learn a little kindness which would get her far. She despises my husband, who is genuinely as nice as can be, even to a fault. Doesn’t have a bad bone in his body, god bless him. But he supports me and loves me and we do well off each other and thrive, which she doesn’t like. Other siblings have commented on the fact she treats him so poorly when he is nothing but so kind to her.
Come party, 2 hours in and she’s nowhere to be seen. We’re waiting around to cut cakes since her household consisted of 5 people and we didn’t want to have people randomly walk in on it and ruin the photographs, miss the momentous moment, etc. My brother gets in touch with her and relays the message that I’m a monster, I’m childish and horrible and never welcome her to anything and I’m irrelevant and no one likes me which is why everyone bailed on me and I should be embarrassed. The only person I said those things to was my mother (who couldn’t come to party due to health reasons). I spent a majority of my wedding party crying on a fire escape because I was so upset by her words, so upset that everyone bailed, and so upset I didn’t follow my gut inviting other friends who would have come over obligatory family invites. I blocked my sister and her friend who joined in on her meanness. She has taken to emailing and texting me under spoof emails and phone numbers. Calling me irrelevant, embarrassing, disgusting, ugly, childish, greedy, no one showed up because they don’t like me, never been liked, etc.
My mother has spoken to her, but hasn’t reached out to me since the party when I said I was hurt at what she shared in confidence and need to think about what I want from this family anymore. My mother swears she went through her phone and saw the messages, but other parts of her (mothers) story don’t align. My mother historically has victim mindset over everything and could do no wrong. I try to do nothing but support my mother but she can never ever see how she’s in the wrong - ever. For example, she put her electric bill under my name and SS and defaulted on it for years. When I called her out on it after the company started reaching out to me, she said it’s always been like this, I didn’t say anything years ago so what’s the difference now, she’s doing no wrong and if I want her to go without electric and ruin the family then by all means go ahead and shut it off if I want.
I’m hurt, I’m upset. My husband has been amazing, but he doesn’t have any family that we could lean on ever. I’m torn between going fully no contact between my siblings who enable my sister, my mother who is emotionally abusive and enables her and doesn’t protect the rest of us, and calling it a day. Or going no contact with siblings, low contact with my mother, and never returning until they get their shit together and go to therapy. I just don’t know what is best anymore since I know my mom will never stand up to her. Family is all I’ve ever really had outside a close knit group of 3 friends, so it’s hard to go from everything to nothing in the blink of an eye.
Ever since my dad died and my sister took over, I have felt like I don’t have a spot in the family anymore. My sisters best friend of 15 years has always wanted to be apart of our big family since she had a dysfunctional one herself, and joins us on family vacations, Christmas, every waking moment. She is just as bad as my sister, and my sister is her only friend so she bows down to her. Since dad died, it’s like my sister and her friend don’t want me in the family and want to give the bff my daughter spot and to ostracize me. All of this is making me spiral and spiral and spiral. I haven’t been this bad mentally in a really, REALLY long time and it’s triggering me a lot.
I feel like as a woman, I’m held to a different caliber than the others. My brothers could do whatever they damn well please, and they do, and everyone turns a blind eye. With my sister being the oldest, she gets the same treatment. I am overwhelmed with what this family puts me through. My husband doesn’t have any family anymore for us to lean on, spend holidays with, etc. How do you move on? How do you find peace? How do you be okay with the fact nothing will ever change in this dynamic so it’s all or nothing?
FWIW - have an amazing therapist, amazing support group. Am ok, just sad and upset.
submitted by dissociativedays to raisedbynarcissists [link] [comments]
I recently got married and had a 40 person head count, with 38 yeses. After a bunch of random crap, 13 of my 20 invitees flaked 3 days to 2 hours before the party, all of which were very, very close family members including a brother and two of my BILs. Had I known this, with ample timing, I would have invited more friends who WOULD have shown, but due to family taking up so much of the headcount, I couldn’t extend invites to them all. I vented to my mother who said at least I have my sister coming, who I said was only invited since the others were and she has never been nice to me or my husband - which my mother agreed with and said was a self-centered survival thing. I said she should learn a little kindness which would get her far. She despises my husband, who is genuinely as nice as can be, even to a fault. Doesn’t have a bad bone in his body, god bless him. But he supports me and loves me and we do well off each other and thrive, which she doesn’t like. Other siblings have commented on the fact she treats him so poorly when he is nothing but so kind to her.
Come party, 2 hours in and she’s nowhere to be seen. We’re waiting around to cut cakes since her household consisted of 5 people and we didn’t want to have people randomly walk in on it and ruin the photographs, miss the momentous moment, etc. My brother gets in touch with her and relays the message that I’m a monster, I’m childish and horrible and never welcome her to anything and I’m irrelevant and no one likes me which is why everyone bailed on me and I should be embarrassed. The only person I said those things to was my mother (who couldn’t come to party due to health reasons). I spent a majority of my wedding party crying on a fire escape because I was so upset by her words, so upset that everyone bailed, and so upset I didn’t follow my gut inviting other friends who would have come over obligatory family invites. I blocked my sister and her friend who joined in on her meanness. She has taken to emailing and texting me under spoof emails and phone numbers. Calling me irrelevant, embarrassing, disgusting, ugly, childish, greedy, no one showed up because they don’t like me, never been liked, etc.
My mother has spoken to her, but hasn’t reached out to me since the party when I said I was hurt at what she shared in confidence and need to think about what I want from this family anymore. My mother swears she went through her phone and saw the messages, but other parts of her (mothers) story don’t align. My mother historically has victim mindset over everything and could do no wrong. I try to do nothing but support my mother but she can never ever see how she’s in the wrong - ever. For example, she put her electric bill under my name and SS and defaulted on it for years. When I called her out on it after the company started reaching out to me, she said it’s always been like this, I didn’t say anything years ago so what’s the difference now, she’s doing no wrong and if I want her to go without electric and ruin the family then by all means go ahead and shut it off if I want.
I’m hurt, I’m upset. My husband has been amazing, but he doesn’t have any family that we could lean on ever. I’m torn between going fully no contact between my siblings who enable my sister, my mother who is emotionally abusive and enables her and doesn’t protect the rest of us, and calling it a day. Or going no contact with siblings, low contact with my mother, and never returning until they get their shit together and go to therapy. I just don’t know what is best anymore since I know my mom will never stand up to her. Family is all I’ve ever really had outside a close knit group of 3 friends, so it’s hard to go from everything to nothing in the blink of an eye.
Ever since my dad died and my sister took over, I have felt like I don’t have a spot in the family anymore. My sisters best friend of 15 years has always wanted to be apart of our big family since she had a dysfunctional one herself, and joins us on family vacations, Christmas, every waking moment. She is just as bad as my sister, and my sister is her only friend so she bows down to her. Since dad died, it’s like my sister and her friend don’t want me in the family and want to give the bff my daughter spot and to ostracize me. All of this is making me spiral and spiral and spiral. I haven’t been this bad mentally in a really, REALLY long time and it’s triggering me a lot.
I feel like as a woman, I’m held to a different caliber than the others. My brothers could do whatever they damn well please, and they do, and everyone turns a blind eye. With my sister being the oldest, she gets the same treatment. I am overwhelmed with what this family puts me through. My husband doesn’t have any family anymore for us to lean on, spend holidays with, etc. How do you move on? How do you find peace? How do you be okay with the fact nothing will ever change in this dynamic so it’s all or nothing?
FWIW - have an amazing therapist, amazing support group. Am ok, just sad and upset.
2024.05.21 15:05 amberxlxe Signed up to volunteer coach 1/2nd grade recreational soccer; am I doing something wrong?
My son is in 2nd (entering 3rd) grade and joined a local recreational summer soccer league. It’s regional so no kids from his school are on his team, and it draws kids from all over. The league that hosts has a great reputation and parents, myself included, love it. They have competitive soccer beginning at 3rd and 4th grade level, which requires try out.
I signed my son up and the league coordinator asked if I was interested in volunteer coaching. I volunteer in my son’s classroom once or twice a week for an hour each, I do parent activities at school, and I’d generally consider myself pretty involved with his grade. I use attention getters his teacher uses (“shhhh! Waterfall.. eyes on me”) when I have a big group and I always try to check in with kids and find something to remember about them.
The recreational handbook for coaches states, literally: “1st and 2nd grade boys: the point is to get them moving and engaged. Practice is held for 30 minutes with volunteer trainers, then 30 minutes by coach. Coach leads full 1 hour game.” There are no instructions for how scrimmage should be conducted and when I asked the coordinator he said “just have them play and make sure to sub out.”
I have never played soccer as an adult, and I didn’t as a kid. I figured I’d watch some videos online and read some guides. When the ball goes out, it gets thrown in. I told the coordinator I had no experience coaching and he said it wasn’t an issue.
The kids on our team are probably all in 1st grade with a couple exceptions (my son included). They’re all much more rambunctious than I expected but nothing I can’t handle; that said they don’t have a lot of focus and I didn’t expect them to. There are a few parents who are REALLY eager to step on the field and did so during the game, and even asked why I had specific kids do certain things (eg: why didn’t he kick the ball in instead of throw?). I tried to be cordial and kind and say “It’s recreational! I just want them to move and get familiar, first game is always tough!” But that seemed to frustrate one parent even more. None of the parents seem super interested in chatting with me post game, and I feel like I may be doing something wrong. A few of the kids lamented my lame post-game snack and asked where the Gatorade was.
Have you coached recreational sports for kids? Do you have tips on how I could make this season good for them and handle the parents? Again, I know I don’t have the /skill/ in terms of the sport, but they’re in 1st and 2nd grade. In my mind it’s a win they want to play, listen, and engage with their teammates in sportsmanship.
submitted by amberxlxe to Parenting [link] [comments]
I signed my son up and the league coordinator asked if I was interested in volunteer coaching. I volunteer in my son’s classroom once or twice a week for an hour each, I do parent activities at school, and I’d generally consider myself pretty involved with his grade. I use attention getters his teacher uses (“shhhh! Waterfall.. eyes on me”) when I have a big group and I always try to check in with kids and find something to remember about them.
The recreational handbook for coaches states, literally: “1st and 2nd grade boys: the point is to get them moving and engaged. Practice is held for 30 minutes with volunteer trainers, then 30 minutes by coach. Coach leads full 1 hour game.” There are no instructions for how scrimmage should be conducted and when I asked the coordinator he said “just have them play and make sure to sub out.”
I have never played soccer as an adult, and I didn’t as a kid. I figured I’d watch some videos online and read some guides. When the ball goes out, it gets thrown in. I told the coordinator I had no experience coaching and he said it wasn’t an issue.
The kids on our team are probably all in 1st grade with a couple exceptions (my son included). They’re all much more rambunctious than I expected but nothing I can’t handle; that said they don’t have a lot of focus and I didn’t expect them to. There are a few parents who are REALLY eager to step on the field and did so during the game, and even asked why I had specific kids do certain things (eg: why didn’t he kick the ball in instead of throw?). I tried to be cordial and kind and say “It’s recreational! I just want them to move and get familiar, first game is always tough!” But that seemed to frustrate one parent even more. None of the parents seem super interested in chatting with me post game, and I feel like I may be doing something wrong. A few of the kids lamented my lame post-game snack and asked where the Gatorade was.
Have you coached recreational sports for kids? Do you have tips on how I could make this season good for them and handle the parents? Again, I know I don’t have the /skill/ in terms of the sport, but they’re in 1st and 2nd grade. In my mind it’s a win they want to play, listen, and engage with their teammates in sportsmanship.
2024.05.21 15:03 frontieriscalling Is the current model of missions working?
At church on Sunday, the missionaries brought an investigator with a mental problem. He sexually harassed a female member of the ward, and this, coupled with other odd and disrupting behaviors, led the missionaries to decide to stop teaching him.
The missionaries rarely bring investigators, and when they do, they tend to be lower socio-economic folks with mental problems. These folks don't usually end up making it to baptism, and when they do, they don't stay active. There have only been a handful of baptisms in my ward over the last 5-10 years.
Watching the missionaries with their investigator on Sunday got me thinking about whether our current model of how we do missions is working. And, as my son will reach mission age in several years, whether it's something I still feel committed to wanting him to do.
Missions are premised on the 19th century model, where missionaries went out and converted, if not hundreds, then dozens of people. They spent their time tracting, teaching lessons, and baptizing.
While there are places in the world where missionary work continues to thrive, for most places in the West, people simply are not interested in hearing the gospel and converting. This is not the fault of the gospel or the Church or how missions operate. We just live in a secular time where people aren't interested in religious questions and conversion. As a result, missionaries are trained and wholly focused on an activity — sharing the gospel — that they really don't seem to do that much of. Tracting is almost entirely ineffective. Missionaries interact with people online, but this doesn't seem like the kind of transformative activity worth dedicating two years of your life to. The missionaries just seem to be marking time for two years.
Missions have of course always held a dual purpose — to convert other people and to convert the missionary himself. But is there a point where the former purpose becomes so ineffective that the latter purpose cannot be brought about? That is, is there a point in which so little meaningful sharing of the gospel takes place on a mission that it stops being a sufficiently transformative and worthwhile experience?
Personally, I'd love to see missions made into full-time service experiences in the vein of Americorps/Peace Corps. I think youth still very much need a challenging rite of passage into adulthood. I'm just not sure the mission model, as currently constituted, is the most effective way to provide that anymore.
But I'm open to being wrong! Is my perception of missions off base? I'd love to hear from those who recently got back from a mission or parents with a kid on a mission as to whether missions are still working: working in the sense of actually bringing people into the Church, and working in the sense of providing a worthwhile experience for the missionary.
submitted by frontieriscalling to latterdaysaints [link] [comments]
The missionaries rarely bring investigators, and when they do, they tend to be lower socio-economic folks with mental problems. These folks don't usually end up making it to baptism, and when they do, they don't stay active. There have only been a handful of baptisms in my ward over the last 5-10 years.
Watching the missionaries with their investigator on Sunday got me thinking about whether our current model of how we do missions is working. And, as my son will reach mission age in several years, whether it's something I still feel committed to wanting him to do.
Missions are premised on the 19th century model, where missionaries went out and converted, if not hundreds, then dozens of people. They spent their time tracting, teaching lessons, and baptizing.
While there are places in the world where missionary work continues to thrive, for most places in the West, people simply are not interested in hearing the gospel and converting. This is not the fault of the gospel or the Church or how missions operate. We just live in a secular time where people aren't interested in religious questions and conversion. As a result, missionaries are trained and wholly focused on an activity — sharing the gospel — that they really don't seem to do that much of. Tracting is almost entirely ineffective. Missionaries interact with people online, but this doesn't seem like the kind of transformative activity worth dedicating two years of your life to. The missionaries just seem to be marking time for two years.
Missions have of course always held a dual purpose — to convert other people and to convert the missionary himself. But is there a point where the former purpose becomes so ineffective that the latter purpose cannot be brought about? That is, is there a point in which so little meaningful sharing of the gospel takes place on a mission that it stops being a sufficiently transformative and worthwhile experience?
Personally, I'd love to see missions made into full-time service experiences in the vein of Americorps/Peace Corps. I think youth still very much need a challenging rite of passage into adulthood. I'm just not sure the mission model, as currently constituted, is the most effective way to provide that anymore.
But I'm open to being wrong! Is my perception of missions off base? I'd love to hear from those who recently got back from a mission or parents with a kid on a mission as to whether missions are still working: working in the sense of actually bringing people into the Church, and working in the sense of providing a worthwhile experience for the missionary.
2024.05.21 15:01 SharkEva My wife friend-zoned me and wants a platonic “companionship”
I am not the OOP. The OOP is u/themachucajr posting in Marriage
Ongoing as per OOP
1 updates - Long
Original - 7th May 2024
Update - 15th May 2024
My wife friend-zoned me and wants a platonic “companionship”
My wife (35f) and I (35m) have been married for 15 years and we've been together for 20 years. We have two kids (12,14) we absolutely adore and work tirelessly to provide the best possible life for them. For the past 3 years, things have been somewhat bumpy. I understand that our kids are at an age where they require a ton of our attention and resources with school, band, club sports, and other extracurriculars and I'm aware of the physical and emotional toll that can have on marriages.
However, for these past 3 years, my wife and I have had very little intimacy and very little sex and we've been trying very hard to work on that aspect of our relationship. This past year has been the most difficult and by far the darkest year in our marriage. We didn’t talk very much, we essentially became roommates coparenting our kids under the same roof. It was very depressing and very demoralizing. It was to the point where we began contemplating divorce and it became very dark and gloomy in the household because of that.
We began seeking help with both individualized therapy and couples therapy and it seems to have helped some. Little by little we started to get along and started to have deeper conversations about what our marriage looks like and what we would love for it to look like. This is where it gets tough. As time passed, my wife started to tell me she no longer was "in love with me" and that she only saw me as a "best friend." That she only loved me in a very platonic way, and this was one of the main reasons she didn’t have any desire for intimacy and let alone sex.
This was very shocking to me and quite frankly, I was devastated. I because angry and depressed and I couldn't fathom the thought that I was no longer wanted or desired by the person I felt completely in love with. Things began to deteriorate again and not long after, we were back to square one. I sat down with her one afternoon and had a heart to heart and began to ask questions about where the root of this problem lies, and her answer was "I don't know" and that "I have built up resentment towards you but I don't know where it stems from." As you can imagine, this provides very little to no insight into how to approach this.
I'm puzzled, I'm frustrated and I do not know what to do at this point. Currently, we've arrived at a place where she says that she has no sex drive and no desire for intimacy or connection. She says that all she wants is simply "companionship" which basically means our coparenting roommate dynamic. I asked her what I could possibly do or what is it about me that is so unattractive or undesirable and she her response is always "I don't know." She stated that she does "love" me but its not the same. That she has been feeling disconnected for years and that our marriage just takes up too much work. Her focus is only the children for now and that my coparenting contributions are "meaningful" to her in our home.
I'm at a loss and I'm mainly venting about my frustration. It's tough to realize that the person you love has no feelings for you. I feel like at this point I'm only here to contribute financially and as a parent. I feel like what she means with "companionship" is that she's comfortable with the convenience of having a good father for our kids and my financial contribution to the household.
In regard to intimacy and/or sex, she basically told me that its not something she’s interested in or wants at this time. She mentioned that the only way to get to a point for any of that is to be intoxicated which o believe is incredibly awful and very wrong. I told her I do not think forcing herself to have sex or be intimate by drinking or smoking is good and I declined to be a part of that which to my surprise, it upset her and made her more distant.
We're both extremely honest and transparent. We've never cheated on each other and we are always free to look through each others phones, emails, socials, etc. and we hardly ever do. I asked her if there was someone else and she declined. Honestly, I believe her. We then peacefully went through each other’s things and as expected, it was clean. We've always been very forward, even with the hard topics so I don't smell nor feel any foul play or infidelity.
Am I wrong for declining to only be intimate or have sex when she’s intoxicated? (I'm firm on my stance of not partaking in this "only when I'm high or drunk" sex because it doesn’t sit well with me.) I do not know how to help our situation and I'm starting to become a bit anxious and desperate. We're both fairly young and healthy individuals and good looking. We both have good standing careers and are good parents. I'm just not sure how our lives could have driven us to this point. I'd love some outside perspective on this matter and some insight on how to address something like this. It feels so awful to be unwanted and undesired by my own spouse. I hate it.
tl;dr: My wife of 15+ years is no longer in love with me and doesn’t know way and now says she can only have sex while intoxicated or I need to settle for a platonic sexless marriage and she doesn’t know why that is but it is what it is and I'm in need of insight or advice.
Comments
Warthog__
From your comment history it looks like you are Swingers? If so, I would think that would be relevant information to consider.
failedopportunities
It’s an obvious potential issue bro… wether it be she’s enjoying herself a side piece and wants nothing to do with you in that manner anymore. Or, she just went along with you on the swinging and never wanted to do it in the first place. Hence brings resentment. Regardless, should have been included in the initial post.
BigIronBruce
Will she be your best friend if you live elsewhere and have a relationship with somebody in love you. Probably not. Which makes the whole "best friend" speech feel like self-deception on her part.
I won't lie, if it were me, I'd get a divorce. She doesn't seem willing to do the work to fix the marriage and you can't fix it alone. She might promise to fix it or beg you not to but you need to follow your gut as to whether she actually can or will fix it. She's serious that she wants you to stick around but not necessarily as her husband.
Basically withold from any unnecesary interactions and affection. This is from an infidelity forum, but principles are the same https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/the-simplified-180/
Update - 8 days later
I wanted to give you guys an update of how the therapy session with my wife went this week. Not sure if this is helpful or not but I took many of the responses/comments/suggestions from my initial post and put together some things I wanted to discuss with our couples therapist to help us navigate some of the core issues that may be affecting this situation.
One of the main things that is the "buzz word" of this has been the term "resentment" and it has been really eating me up inside knowing my wife keeps telling me she doesn't know why she's resentful or doesn't know why this is affecting her emotionally/mentally. I brought this up with our therapist once again and resurfaced the conversation about being married for so long (15yrs) and being together since we ere 14yrs old. Our long history of growing up and how having children when she was 19yrs old (me 20) significantly changed the trajectory of our lives.
We experience severe poverty and many hardships in the process and we essentially had zero social life for the past 10 years because we were so busy raising babies (2 kids now ages 12 &14). She followed up with tons of questions directly mostly at my wife about her feelings towards this and 90% of the responses were very "our kids" focused. It definitely felt like she was afraid of saying "yes it sucked" because she would feel guilt or shame because it would imply she regrets the kids.
I mentioned this in the session and the therapist encouraged her to look at this outside of the lens of being a mother and to try to view it a bit more selfishly and individually and it was very eye opening. My wife mentioned that she was very frustrated with the fact that we did miss out on many things in life. She also was very clear in saying "I do not think I missed out on other partners or dating or partying but I certainly lost all my friends." This was huge because one of the big pieces that has caused a strain in our lives is how silo'd and isolated we've been (again busy raising kids). I followed up by reminding her that it's important to have good friends and to make time for herself and her friendships.
For the past 3+ years, we've had multiple conversations about friends and how it is important to have them in life. Specially when you have similar peers that can help in many areas of life that perhaps we have no experience navigating and even simply for enjoyment. It has always been something my wife avoids, even though she's always been someone who needs that external stimuli. The main reason for her not investing in friends or even herself has always been "the kids." Like I mentioned earlier in this post, 90% of the answers have to relate to "the kids" to some degree.
At this point in our session I started to feel like there was a common denominator (the kids) in most of the frustrations and problems she was experiencing. So I simply asked her "Do you think you may be upset at me because I'm responsible for these kids in the sense that I got you pregnant so young?" I wasn't ready but she said that she was upset at me for that. She also followed up with the fact that she knows that's unreasonable because it "takes 2 to tango." I did feel like it was progress because it kind of gave us something to work on and help alleviate some of these "burdens" so we agreed to invest more time in nurturing good friendships both together and individually.
Towards the end of the session, we began to discuss what actionable items we would take from this session. At this point, it was still all very ambiguous and blurry as to what the outcomes were. I was very direct and very forward in asking my wife what her plan is moving forward. (NOTE: I had decided prior to the session that should my wife say the same thing about being a coparenting roommate that I would take the 180 approach and essentially do me) She started basically saying the same thing, that she doesn't have any desire to be intimate or sexual with me as of now and that she loves me immensely and she feels bad for not being there for me (as mentioned in my first post).
I also brought up the brief swinging that happened, to which for the 50th time said it wasn't a problem. I agree with her on this. This was something that was a "mechanical" approach for a solution to a problem that was very much in existent when we tried this. We (both) really have no issue to this. We know it happened, we tried it and mutually stopped and turned the page.
I also brought up other life events that may cause resentment and really we ended up not getting anywhere else as far as the root for resentment which was discouraging.
I then basically expressed to my wife that I will not be ok with that arrangement. I told her that I've really done everything I can and that this issue really has reached a point where it has nothing to do with me or require me to do anything that I'm currently not doing. I was very direct and saying that I will not be accepting this dynamic and that I need to be with someone who is actively involved in our marriage, works towards resolutions and is very much interested in maintaining an active intimacy and sexual relationship.
I expressed how I am not going to be a "convenience" and that there was more to life than being roommates and coparents. I made sure she knows I love her dearly and that I do want this to work for the better. I also told her that I'm fully committed to this marriage so long as she is as well and that is she wasn't, its ok, however I will not be a part of something where these efforts are not reciprocated. I told her I have no plans of leaving, and I do not want a divorce, however, I made it clear that if this dynamic continues that divorce will be the only outcome.
Of course tears were involved and it was a very bleak and sad ending to the session. Still nothing was said and I walked out very discouraged and very determined to start working on the 180 as soon as we left the room. It's painful and very difficult because much of the 180 requires you to be very short and cold and transactional. The saddest part is realizing, this dynamic already is very cold and transactional.
Here is where it gets VERY interesting. I started working on implementing many of the 180 recommendations that same day. I mentioned to my wife that, "hey, things are going to be a bit different moving forward. I'm going to honor her roommate/coparent dynamic without reproach and that it should be no mistake that I am not happy here and I am never going to be ok with it but I am done working on it if she wasn't going to work on it."
She agreed and went to bed. I started to build distance and started to basically focus on myself. Very short and transactional. She asked for help on some of her personal things to which I declined and it really shocked her. She was upset saying I was being petulant. I explained to her that, she is now fully in charge of her own life and her own issues.
We didn't talk all day and we only spoke when necessary. Few days I keep this going and she's very visibly upset and stressed. I typically react to that with gestures of help or nurturing but I didn't this time. That night she was crying telling me she's stressed and she things something is wrong with me because I'm "indifferent." I simply listened, then I told her that this is the dynamic she proposed and that I'm simply (much like her) taking care of myself and focusing on myself.
I'm not going to lie, it has been VERY hard to be cold and distant because as I mentioned before, I love her and I wish I could hold her and love on her. However, I know this is somewhat manipulative in a way just to get her way and still keep me in the friendzone. So I've been staying the course.
We're now going on a week of this 180 and let just say, there has been MANY changes on her side. I think she is starting to realize there is more to me than just "friends and coparenting." I sent her a text a few days ago essentially itemizing bills and separating the financial responsibilities 50/50 and SHE LOST HER SHIT. She basically told me it was "out of left field" to which I responded "hey, friends go in 50/50 and as your friend I expect nothing less."
This was very eye opening because it gave me a glimpse of I'm really taken for granted and how her level of comfort and convenience at my expense is really overlooked. I pushed through anyways and basically told her that this is the new dynamic she asked for and that its still a "bargain" because she would have to be 100% if she was on her own.
I'll wrap up with this. While the 180 has been working in many different areas, I am still very much sad about the overall situation. There have been MANY eye opening statements being said and realization that have not been pleasant to encounter. It has also sparked new energy and new efforts on her side as well. She's definitely seeking to talk to me more often and while its hard to turn down, I hope if things improve, this continues to happen.
I've also noticed that she's making more time for herself aside from being a mom which is HUGE because she pretty much neglected herself for years. I'm very pleased seeing her be more herself. My hope is that as we work on ourselves, the marriage improves. There really is no telling at this point where this will go. We are very much cordial and amicable even to this day and that's a very good sign.
Boundaries are set and expectations are very clear and I feel that no matter the outcome, I will be at peace with everything that has been done. We're still going to continue the couples therapist until we either rekindle our marriage or end up in divorce. I feel like having this nonbiased third party really helps as a witness and as a guide through this. No matter what I will always love my wife, however, I will not participate in a sexless, intimacy less marriage because we both deserve better.
Thank you all for all the kind words and recommendations and feedback. This will be my last post on this topic and I wish you all the best.
TL;DR: My wife friend-zoned me wants to just coparent at my expense but I started the 180 method to try and find a solution because she doesn't want to work on us which seems to be working on getting her out of her rut and helping me discover more about how she feels. Also, therapy is paramount and highly recommend to all couples.
Comments
Complete-Old-1960
Bottom line and not to be brutal, but there is one thing you don't have infinite amount of, is TIME. This has to be resolved in a timely manner. It takes 2 to be in love and to be loved, and u only have ½ of the equation. You need to put a time limit on you being the good guy and think of you and your future. Look hope it works out for you, but listening to what you are going through and what you could be in for you can still be a good father but also be a great husband to another wife if you find that special person again.
shes_a_killer
I have to agree with this, simply because at some point, the person who has gone 180 and is waiting for the other person to decide will begin to wonder, "Wow, they're really taking their time coming around to me...did they love me at all? If they ever appreciated and cared for me, why would they keep me waiting and neglecting me for so long?" Except, in my case, it had more to do with the other person being stubborn and unable to admit their faults.
RandyPan_theGoatBoy
I think it’s interesting that in the comments of your original post you said you didn’t think she was taking you for granted but you came to realize she absolutely was. Can you give some more details on what the 180 method is?
I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.
Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments
submitted by SharkEva to BORUpdates [link] [comments]
Ongoing as per OOP
1 updates - Long
Original - 7th May 2024
Update - 15th May 2024
My wife friend-zoned me and wants a platonic “companionship”
My wife (35f) and I (35m) have been married for 15 years and we've been together for 20 years. We have two kids (12,14) we absolutely adore and work tirelessly to provide the best possible life for them. For the past 3 years, things have been somewhat bumpy. I understand that our kids are at an age where they require a ton of our attention and resources with school, band, club sports, and other extracurriculars and I'm aware of the physical and emotional toll that can have on marriages.
However, for these past 3 years, my wife and I have had very little intimacy and very little sex and we've been trying very hard to work on that aspect of our relationship. This past year has been the most difficult and by far the darkest year in our marriage. We didn’t talk very much, we essentially became roommates coparenting our kids under the same roof. It was very depressing and very demoralizing. It was to the point where we began contemplating divorce and it became very dark and gloomy in the household because of that.
We began seeking help with both individualized therapy and couples therapy and it seems to have helped some. Little by little we started to get along and started to have deeper conversations about what our marriage looks like and what we would love for it to look like. This is where it gets tough. As time passed, my wife started to tell me she no longer was "in love with me" and that she only saw me as a "best friend." That she only loved me in a very platonic way, and this was one of the main reasons she didn’t have any desire for intimacy and let alone sex.
This was very shocking to me and quite frankly, I was devastated. I because angry and depressed and I couldn't fathom the thought that I was no longer wanted or desired by the person I felt completely in love with. Things began to deteriorate again and not long after, we were back to square one. I sat down with her one afternoon and had a heart to heart and began to ask questions about where the root of this problem lies, and her answer was "I don't know" and that "I have built up resentment towards you but I don't know where it stems from." As you can imagine, this provides very little to no insight into how to approach this.
I'm puzzled, I'm frustrated and I do not know what to do at this point. Currently, we've arrived at a place where she says that she has no sex drive and no desire for intimacy or connection. She says that all she wants is simply "companionship" which basically means our coparenting roommate dynamic. I asked her what I could possibly do or what is it about me that is so unattractive or undesirable and she her response is always "I don't know." She stated that she does "love" me but its not the same. That she has been feeling disconnected for years and that our marriage just takes up too much work. Her focus is only the children for now and that my coparenting contributions are "meaningful" to her in our home.
I'm at a loss and I'm mainly venting about my frustration. It's tough to realize that the person you love has no feelings for you. I feel like at this point I'm only here to contribute financially and as a parent. I feel like what she means with "companionship" is that she's comfortable with the convenience of having a good father for our kids and my financial contribution to the household.
In regard to intimacy and/or sex, she basically told me that its not something she’s interested in or wants at this time. She mentioned that the only way to get to a point for any of that is to be intoxicated which o believe is incredibly awful and very wrong. I told her I do not think forcing herself to have sex or be intimate by drinking or smoking is good and I declined to be a part of that which to my surprise, it upset her and made her more distant.
We're both extremely honest and transparent. We've never cheated on each other and we are always free to look through each others phones, emails, socials, etc. and we hardly ever do. I asked her if there was someone else and she declined. Honestly, I believe her. We then peacefully went through each other’s things and as expected, it was clean. We've always been very forward, even with the hard topics so I don't smell nor feel any foul play or infidelity.
Am I wrong for declining to only be intimate or have sex when she’s intoxicated? (I'm firm on my stance of not partaking in this "only when I'm high or drunk" sex because it doesn’t sit well with me.) I do not know how to help our situation and I'm starting to become a bit anxious and desperate. We're both fairly young and healthy individuals and good looking. We both have good standing careers and are good parents. I'm just not sure how our lives could have driven us to this point. I'd love some outside perspective on this matter and some insight on how to address something like this. It feels so awful to be unwanted and undesired by my own spouse. I hate it.
tl;dr: My wife of 15+ years is no longer in love with me and doesn’t know way and now says she can only have sex while intoxicated or I need to settle for a platonic sexless marriage and she doesn’t know why that is but it is what it is and I'm in need of insight or advice.
Comments
Warthog__
From your comment history it looks like you are Swingers? If so, I would think that would be relevant information to consider.
OOP: We did some swinging in the past. That was fun for some time. We mutually decided to stop doing it and we have established it’s not the case. When we were swinging however, our marriage seemed to be in a good place. This IS something we did disclose with our couple therapist and made sure to include it to make sure we’re not neglecting an obvious potential issue.
I will say, I did ask my wife if what she experienced during swinging is something that is affecting her view on our relationship and she said it wasn’t. Our swinging experience was always together and it was very sex driven. Nothing really emotional or “poly”. Truth is, I have to believe her at her word. I have no reason to distrust her. To date, she’s always been very forward and never afraid of dealing things head on. No matter how painful.
failedopportunities
It’s an obvious potential issue bro… wether it be she’s enjoying herself a side piece and wants nothing to do with you in that manner anymore. Or, she just went along with you on the swinging and never wanted to do it in the first place. Hence brings resentment. Regardless, should have been included in the initial post.
OOP: Swinging was her idea. Not mine. But I suppose I should have included it but I honestly believe her on it not being an issue. I don’t have any reason to distrust her. Maybe it’s something she has to accept with her therapist or our couples therapist. Can’t really approach that with a solution if she doesn’t think it was a problem. IDK
BigIronBruce
She says that all she wants is simply "companionship" which basically means our coparenting roommate dynamic.That's only a marriage if you both agree it is. You're hoping she's going to wake up one day and feel different but she's basically said that's not going to happen and doesn't want to figure out why she feels that way. It seems like you tried several different ways to get to the bottom of it and she's either deflected or is being honest that she's not in love with you.
Am I wrong for declining to only be intimate or have sex when she’s intoxicated?I wouldn't do this, either, if that makes you feel better.
Will she be your best friend if you live elsewhere and have a relationship with somebody in love you. Probably not. Which makes the whole "best friend" speech feel like self-deception on her part.
I won't lie, if it were me, I'd get a divorce. She doesn't seem willing to do the work to fix the marriage and you can't fix it alone. She might promise to fix it or beg you not to but you need to follow your gut as to whether she actually can or will fix it. She's serious that she wants you to stick around but not necessarily as her husband.
OOP: A very hard truth to accept here. Thank youInteresting-Tip-4850
"I’m ensure I do everything possible to mend our marriage to ensure my own peace of mind and excite knowing I did everything I could."you may still concider 180 method, to protect yourself and perhaps in the same time the reality that the ship is leaving may start to change your wifes perspective. If that doesnt what else would.
OOP: Can you elaborate on the “180 Method”?Interesting-Tip-4850
Basically withold from any unnecesary interactions and affection. This is from an infidelity forum, but principles are the same https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/the-simplified-180/
OOP: I bookmarked this. I’m heavily considering this.
Update - 8 days later
I wanted to give you guys an update of how the therapy session with my wife went this week. Not sure if this is helpful or not but I took many of the responses/comments/suggestions from my initial post and put together some things I wanted to discuss with our couples therapist to help us navigate some of the core issues that may be affecting this situation.
One of the main things that is the "buzz word" of this has been the term "resentment" and it has been really eating me up inside knowing my wife keeps telling me she doesn't know why she's resentful or doesn't know why this is affecting her emotionally/mentally. I brought this up with our therapist once again and resurfaced the conversation about being married for so long (15yrs) and being together since we ere 14yrs old. Our long history of growing up and how having children when she was 19yrs old (me 20) significantly changed the trajectory of our lives.
We experience severe poverty and many hardships in the process and we essentially had zero social life for the past 10 years because we were so busy raising babies (2 kids now ages 12 &14). She followed up with tons of questions directly mostly at my wife about her feelings towards this and 90% of the responses were very "our kids" focused. It definitely felt like she was afraid of saying "yes it sucked" because she would feel guilt or shame because it would imply she regrets the kids.
I mentioned this in the session and the therapist encouraged her to look at this outside of the lens of being a mother and to try to view it a bit more selfishly and individually and it was very eye opening. My wife mentioned that she was very frustrated with the fact that we did miss out on many things in life. She also was very clear in saying "I do not think I missed out on other partners or dating or partying but I certainly lost all my friends." This was huge because one of the big pieces that has caused a strain in our lives is how silo'd and isolated we've been (again busy raising kids). I followed up by reminding her that it's important to have good friends and to make time for herself and her friendships.
For the past 3+ years, we've had multiple conversations about friends and how it is important to have them in life. Specially when you have similar peers that can help in many areas of life that perhaps we have no experience navigating and even simply for enjoyment. It has always been something my wife avoids, even though she's always been someone who needs that external stimuli. The main reason for her not investing in friends or even herself has always been "the kids." Like I mentioned earlier in this post, 90% of the answers have to relate to "the kids" to some degree.
At this point in our session I started to feel like there was a common denominator (the kids) in most of the frustrations and problems she was experiencing. So I simply asked her "Do you think you may be upset at me because I'm responsible for these kids in the sense that I got you pregnant so young?" I wasn't ready but she said that she was upset at me for that. She also followed up with the fact that she knows that's unreasonable because it "takes 2 to tango." I did feel like it was progress because it kind of gave us something to work on and help alleviate some of these "burdens" so we agreed to invest more time in nurturing good friendships both together and individually.
Towards the end of the session, we began to discuss what actionable items we would take from this session. At this point, it was still all very ambiguous and blurry as to what the outcomes were. I was very direct and very forward in asking my wife what her plan is moving forward. (NOTE: I had decided prior to the session that should my wife say the same thing about being a coparenting roommate that I would take the 180 approach and essentially do me) She started basically saying the same thing, that she doesn't have any desire to be intimate or sexual with me as of now and that she loves me immensely and she feels bad for not being there for me (as mentioned in my first post).
I also brought up the brief swinging that happened, to which for the 50th time said it wasn't a problem. I agree with her on this. This was something that was a "mechanical" approach for a solution to a problem that was very much in existent when we tried this. We (both) really have no issue to this. We know it happened, we tried it and mutually stopped and turned the page.
I also brought up other life events that may cause resentment and really we ended up not getting anywhere else as far as the root for resentment which was discouraging.
I then basically expressed to my wife that I will not be ok with that arrangement. I told her that I've really done everything I can and that this issue really has reached a point where it has nothing to do with me or require me to do anything that I'm currently not doing. I was very direct and saying that I will not be accepting this dynamic and that I need to be with someone who is actively involved in our marriage, works towards resolutions and is very much interested in maintaining an active intimacy and sexual relationship.
I expressed how I am not going to be a "convenience" and that there was more to life than being roommates and coparents. I made sure she knows I love her dearly and that I do want this to work for the better. I also told her that I'm fully committed to this marriage so long as she is as well and that is she wasn't, its ok, however I will not be a part of something where these efforts are not reciprocated. I told her I have no plans of leaving, and I do not want a divorce, however, I made it clear that if this dynamic continues that divorce will be the only outcome.
Of course tears were involved and it was a very bleak and sad ending to the session. Still nothing was said and I walked out very discouraged and very determined to start working on the 180 as soon as we left the room. It's painful and very difficult because much of the 180 requires you to be very short and cold and transactional. The saddest part is realizing, this dynamic already is very cold and transactional.
Here is where it gets VERY interesting. I started working on implementing many of the 180 recommendations that same day. I mentioned to my wife that, "hey, things are going to be a bit different moving forward. I'm going to honor her roommate/coparent dynamic without reproach and that it should be no mistake that I am not happy here and I am never going to be ok with it but I am done working on it if she wasn't going to work on it."
She agreed and went to bed. I started to build distance and started to basically focus on myself. Very short and transactional. She asked for help on some of her personal things to which I declined and it really shocked her. She was upset saying I was being petulant. I explained to her that, she is now fully in charge of her own life and her own issues.
We didn't talk all day and we only spoke when necessary. Few days I keep this going and she's very visibly upset and stressed. I typically react to that with gestures of help or nurturing but I didn't this time. That night she was crying telling me she's stressed and she things something is wrong with me because I'm "indifferent." I simply listened, then I told her that this is the dynamic she proposed and that I'm simply (much like her) taking care of myself and focusing on myself.
I'm not going to lie, it has been VERY hard to be cold and distant because as I mentioned before, I love her and I wish I could hold her and love on her. However, I know this is somewhat manipulative in a way just to get her way and still keep me in the friendzone. So I've been staying the course.
We're now going on a week of this 180 and let just say, there has been MANY changes on her side. I think she is starting to realize there is more to me than just "friends and coparenting." I sent her a text a few days ago essentially itemizing bills and separating the financial responsibilities 50/50 and SHE LOST HER SHIT. She basically told me it was "out of left field" to which I responded "hey, friends go in 50/50 and as your friend I expect nothing less."
This was very eye opening because it gave me a glimpse of I'm really taken for granted and how her level of comfort and convenience at my expense is really overlooked. I pushed through anyways and basically told her that this is the new dynamic she asked for and that its still a "bargain" because she would have to be 100% if she was on her own.
I'll wrap up with this. While the 180 has been working in many different areas, I am still very much sad about the overall situation. There have been MANY eye opening statements being said and realization that have not been pleasant to encounter. It has also sparked new energy and new efforts on her side as well. She's definitely seeking to talk to me more often and while its hard to turn down, I hope if things improve, this continues to happen.
I've also noticed that she's making more time for herself aside from being a mom which is HUGE because she pretty much neglected herself for years. I'm very pleased seeing her be more herself. My hope is that as we work on ourselves, the marriage improves. There really is no telling at this point where this will go. We are very much cordial and amicable even to this day and that's a very good sign.
Boundaries are set and expectations are very clear and I feel that no matter the outcome, I will be at peace with everything that has been done. We're still going to continue the couples therapist until we either rekindle our marriage or end up in divorce. I feel like having this nonbiased third party really helps as a witness and as a guide through this. No matter what I will always love my wife, however, I will not participate in a sexless, intimacy less marriage because we both deserve better.
Thank you all for all the kind words and recommendations and feedback. This will be my last post on this topic and I wish you all the best.
TL;DR: My wife friend-zoned me wants to just coparent at my expense but I started the 180 method to try and find a solution because she doesn't want to work on us which seems to be working on getting her out of her rut and helping me discover more about how she feels. Also, therapy is paramount and highly recommend to all couples.
Comments
Complete-Old-1960
Bottom line and not to be brutal, but there is one thing you don't have infinite amount of, is TIME. This has to be resolved in a timely manner. It takes 2 to be in love and to be loved, and u only have ½ of the equation. You need to put a time limit on you being the good guy and think of you and your future. Look hope it works out for you, but listening to what you are going through and what you could be in for you can still be a good father but also be a great husband to another wife if you find that special person again.
OOP: Definitely. I think this “soft ultimatum” (180 method) has been very eye opening. I’m definitely hoping for a rekindling of our marriage but I’m also bracing for divorce. I agree on a timeline and I’ve decided on a timeline for myself privately. I don’t want to give her a timeline because I want to reduce the pressure, however, after 1-2 yrs of things don’t improve, it won’t be shocking or a surprise if we split. I think 1-2yrs is more than reasonable.
shes_a_killer
I have to agree with this, simply because at some point, the person who has gone 180 and is waiting for the other person to decide will begin to wonder, "Wow, they're really taking their time coming around to me...did they love me at all? If they ever appreciated and cared for me, why would they keep me waiting and neglecting me for so long?" Except, in my case, it had more to do with the other person being stubborn and unable to admit their faults.
OOP: I understand what you mean. I don’t think I’ll ever doubt she loved me at all. I’m certain she did and I’m certain she still does. I know it sounds crazy and I’m not at all infatuated or blinded by love. Love is far more than the intimacy and sex we’re lacking.
RandyPan_theGoatBoy
I think it’s interesting that in the comments of your original post you said you didn’t think she was taking you for granted but you came to realize she absolutely was. Can you give some more details on what the 180 method is?
OOP: Yeah, I definitely felt this way. But with this 180 method it’s happening right in front of my eyes. Actual actions and reactions taking place that clearly demonstrate that she is taking me for granted. She actually see this as well. It’s evident she’s thinking about this heavily based on her demeanor and her behavior.
Here’s what I used as a guide:
https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/the-simplified-180/
I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.
Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments
2024.05.21 15:01 FelicitySmoak_ Tuesday, May 21, 2013 - Jackson v. AEG Live Day 15
 | Trial Day 15 submitted by FelicitySmoak_ to WhereWasMJToday [link] [comments] Katherine, Rebbie and Trent Jackson are at court. LA Times reported that the Jacksons offered a settlement. Kevin Boyle , a lawyer for Katherine Jackson and Michael's kids , said they offered to settle the lawsuit against AEG, but that they never got an answer. Kevin Boyle said the family made the offers in January & March. Boyle would not provide details but said AEG's insurance would have paid, which means they could have settled the case without them paying a dime of their money. He said AEG has never offered to settle & they haven't apologized. Marvin Putnam, an attorney for AEG, said it was inappropriate to discuss settlement discussions: "We don't settle matters that are utterly baseless. We believe that is the case in this matter. I can't see why we would consider a settlement as anything other than a shakedown"CNN Reports there was a snack controversy during trial: AEG lawyers gave a bag of peppermint candy to the bailiff to hand out to the jury this week. Even Katherine Jackson enjoyed the treat but Jackson's lawyer raised an objection, suggesting jurors might be influenced if they realized the source of the sweets. A compromise was reached. Each side can provide snacks for jurors, but they'll be placed at the bailiff's desk before jurors enter court so they have no clue who brought it. Shawn Trell Testimony Jackson direct AEG Live General Counsel, Shawn Trell, told jurors that he had forgotten that Kenny Ortega was working under a signed contract. Trell said he met with his attorneys last night and reviewed one doc -- Kenny Ortega's contract. "He had a written contract," Trell said. "I remember the email dynamic. I'm not too proud to admit that I didn't recall the cover contract," Trell said he was changing his previous testimony to add that Ortega had a written contract, not only emails between him and AEGNext topic was Insurance: Cancellation/Non-Appearance/Sickness. Trell said he started working on insurance for the tour in November of 2008. Panish showed several chains of emails where the parties talked about the insurance for the tour Email from Bob Taylor insurance broker to Trell on 1/7/09: "Prior to speaking with carriers we ask the artist to attend medical with a doctor...A full medical with both blood/urine tests. The doctor also wants to review the medical records over the last 5 years to ensure full disclosure. Insurers require further medical examination to be carried out by their nominated doctor. They may restrict illness coverage or death from illness coverage until this examination has taken place"Email from 4/30/09 - Wooley to Trell : "We have no coverage against Michael sickness unless and until he submits to another medical in LondonEmail from 5/28/09 - Trell to Taylor: "We really need to get that medical done"Email from 6/23/09 - Trell to Taylor : "Any update on the availability of Term insurance?" (life insurance)Trell said if they secured life insurance, they would get money if Michael died. "We would get the money owed to us, yes," Trell testified.Trell also said he continued discussions with an insurance broker about additional coverage to recoup AEG Live's investment if the tour had to be canceled. Email from 6/24/09 -Taylor to Trell : "Insurers have refused to move on this. Huge amount of speculation in the media regarding artist's health. They feel if they're to consider providing illness to cover this particular artist, they must have very through medical report"Email from 6/25/09 - Gongaware to Taylor : "If we don't get sickness coverage, we are dropping this policy"Email from 6/25/09 - Taylor to Gongaware : "The consultation in London is critical. The doctor is holding the afternoon of the 6th July open at Harley St. But keep in mind the visit could take 2 hours plus"Next topic: Budget/Costs. Panish showed an email from AEG's Rick Webking to Michael's estate with 1st report of artist advances/expenses. This was a letter sent to the estate containing the expenses incurred, Trell said. "It seems to me we submitted this report for their review, I don't see any request for payment," Trell said.Trell said he spoke with Randy Phillips and Paul Gongaware about Michael's physical condition prior to coming to testify. "I had heard about rehearsals in which Mr. Jackson was fantastic," Trell saidTrell said he's aware of email from Ortega saying doctor was not allowing Michael to attend rehearsal on June 14, 2009. "I was aware of the doctor not allowing him to attend rehearsal," Trell saidEmail from 6/17/09 from Phillips: "...Ortega, Gongaware, Dileo, and his doctor Conrad from Vegas and I have an intervention with him to get him to focus and come to rehearsal"Email from 6/17/09 from Gongaware to Phillip's assistant: "We need a physical therapist and a nutritionist"Email from Production Manager - Gongaware/Phillips on 6/19/09 : "Paul/Randy I'm not bring a drama queen here. Kenny asked me to notify you both Michael was sent home without stepping foot on stage. He was a basket case and Kenny was concerned he would embarrass himself on stage, or worse yet, be hurt. The company is rehearsing right now, but the DOUBT is pervasive"Email from Randy Phillips to Tim Leiweke on 6/19/09 : "We have a huge problem here."Trell agreed with a statement by plaintiff's attorney, Brian Panish, that company executives knew by then there was a "deep issue" with Jackson Does Trell consider that exchange a "red flag" that AEG Live should have noticed, Panish asked. "I would take it seriously, as I believe Mr. Phillips did," Trell answered. "I don't know I would use the word 'red flag'One of the emails shown to the jury was from Jackson estate co-executor John Branca, sent 5 days before Jackson's death & marked 'confidential': "I have the right therapist/spiritual advisosubstance abuse counselor who could help (recently helped Mike Tyson get sober and paroled) Do we know whether there is a substance issue involved (perhaps better discussed on the phone)The email was sent the same day that a meeting was held at Jackson's home with Murray. No further info given to jury. Trell said Mr. Phillips never told him about this email Email from Ortega to Randy Phillips on 6/20/09: (chain of emails) "I honestly don't think he is ready for this based on his continued physical weakening and deepening emotional state"Trell said he didn't see these emails. He said he spoke with Randy Phillips about Phillips' perception of Michael, in order to prepare for testifying, but not about specific emails. Trell has been designated as the most qualified person to speak on behalf of AEG Email from Phillips to Gongaware on 6/20/09 at 1:52 am : "Tim and I are going to see him tomorrow, however, I'm not sure what the problem is Chemical or Physiological?"From Gongaware to Phillips, on 6/20/09 at 5:59 am : "Take the doctor with you. Why wasn't he there last night?"From Phillips to Gongaware, on 6/20/09 at 2:01 pm : "He is not a psychiatrist so I'm not sure how effective he can be at this point obviously, getting him there is not the issue. It is much deeper"Trell said Randy Phillips went to a handful of rehearsals, three at the Forum and two at Staples Center. The head of the marketing department attended rehearsal on June 23, 2009. "She was blown away by it," Trell testified.He said he was unaware of issues with Jackson at rehearsals. "I knew of no problems with Michael Jackson at all",Trell testified.Trell said he never saw the emails from Phillips directing people to exclude images from This Is It of Michael looking "skeletal" while rehearsing. "What were his observations of Michael's physical condition during rehearsal," Trell said. "I asked for his (Phillips) personal opinion."Next line of questioning is about human resources and background checks. Trell said they can be valuable and useful tools when hiring. Background check costs around $40 to $125. Trell said AEG Live could afford this fee. "We don't do background checks on independent contractors," Trell said. Trell said he was involved in the hiring by AEG Live for the This Is It tour. His department was responsible for retaining independent contractors. Trell said he is not familiar with background check process for hiring. "I am not familiar with the process of doing background checks," Trell said. "No training." Panish: "There was no hiring criteria for the This Is It tour, correct?"Trell: "Not to my knowledge" Trell testified that when it comes to independent contractors, they have either worked with the artists, AEG or known in the industry. Trell agreed that no background check was done on anyone working on the This Is It tour. AEG Live General Counsel Shawn Trell told jurors that no legal or financial checks were done involving Conrad Murray or anyone else who worked as an independent contractor on the This Is It shows. Depending on the nature of the position, a background could be done, Trell said, like for potential employees in the financial area. Trell said he thought a background check would be appropriate for people working in financial roles, but not tour personnel who weren't employees of AEG As to independent contractors, Trell said there's no supervision and monitoring like there's for employees Panish: "You don't do anything to check into background, supervise or protect the artist?"Trell: "No, safety is a concern" Trell said that AEG did not hire Murray, that the doctor was like many independent contractors, "When they leave the environment, what they do on their own time is their own business"Trell testified he doesn't believe the artist is more at risk because AEG Live doesn't do background checks "We did nothing to monitor Dr. Murray," Trell said. "We did not monitor whatever it was that he was doing, no.""It called for Michael Jackson being able to terminate Dr. Murray at will," Trell said about the contract. "If the concerts didn't go forward, and he was terminated under this provision, Dr. Murray would not be paid going forward," Trell explained As to Dr Murray being under dire financial straits, Trell said that he doesn't know if he agrees with it, everyone's perception is different Trell: "I certainly wasn't aware of it at the time"Panish: "Because you didn't check, right?" Trell: "That's right" "I don't think conflict of interests are a good thing, and we would want to prevent it," Trell said Email from Kathy Jorie to Shawn Trell on 6/24/09 at 12:54 am: Subject: Revised agreement with GCA Holdings/Dr. MurrayIt had two attachments Attachments: Revised Michael Jackson -AEG GCA Holdings Murray Agreement 6-18-09 Final MJ -- AEG GCA Holdings Agreement (Dr. Murray) 6-23-09Email chain from 6/23/09, 5:39pm from Jorrie to Wooley, Murray Subject: RE: Michael Jackson - Revised Agreement with GCA Holdings/Dr. Murray Email:"I have redlined the Word version so that you can see all of the revisions. In addition, I've attached clean PDF version for execution" (The email says that if Dr. Murray approved it, he was to print it, sign and send it back to Jorrie) Panish: "Did Ms. Jorrie call this contract a draft?"Trell: "She called it a Final Version" "Every document is a draft until it is executed," Trell said. Panish showed emails exchanged among AEG executives that contained drafts of Murray's contract. Although Murray had signed a contract with the company, neither Jackson nor anyone from AEG had added their signatures. Trell testified that a copy of the contract had never been sent to Jackson With Trell on the stand, Panish played part of an interview that AEG Live President Randy Phillips gave to Sky News television soon after Michael's death. "This guy was willing to leave his practice for a very large sum of money, so we hired him," Phillips said.Panish also showed jurors an e-mail between AEG lawyers suggesting that Phillips told other interviewers AEG Live "hired" Murray. Panish: "Isn't it true that Randy Phillips made numerous comments that AEG Live hired Dr. Murray?"Trell: "I know he has made that statement" Panish said AEG higher-ups became concerned after Phillips made such admission. Trell said he didn't know if that was true. Bruce Black is the General Counsel for parent company of AEG and AEG Live. Michael Roth is AEG's media relations Email from Kathy Jorrie to Bruce Black and Michael Roth on 8/25/09: Subject: AEG Live president says AEG Live hired Dr. Conrad MurrayPanish shows Trell a deposition, under oath, given by insurance broker Bob Taylor on another case. Trell said he has never seen or read it. Trell denied having a telephone conversation with Mr. Taylor where Trell asked him if a doctor's compensation was covered in the insurance. Panish: "Does that refresh your recollection that AEG was employing Dr. Murray?"Trell: "Mr. Taylor has this completely wrong" After lunch break, Brian Panish asked if Shawn Trell wanted to change anything else in his testimony, to which he said "No" Bruce Black, attorney for Anschutz, was present in the meeting with LAPD. Trell met with the police on 1/12/10. Trell told the police that day that Dr. Murray would receive $150,000 compensation per month. Trell also said that Dr. Murray requested and AEG would provide necessary medical equipment and a nurse. More than five months after Jackson's death, Trell said, he informed LAPD detectives that Murray initially requested $5 million to join the tour but eventually agreed to a salary of $150,000 a month for 10 months. Panish: "As far as you know, all the agreements written for TII tour was done under AEG Live Productions, right?"Trell: "Yes" Panish: "Was Dr. Murray trying to help AEG get insurance?" Trell: "The policy was in both names, so he was helping both parties" Trell said Dennis Hawk, who represented Michael, was in touch with Taylor regarding the insurance Panish: "As of June 2009, you don't even know whether Mr. Jackson had a personal managerTrell: "Well, my understanding at the time there were a couple of people acting in that capacity" Email on 6/2/09 from Randy Phillips to Jeff Wald: "Jeff, remember getting Michael to focus is not the easiest thing in the world and we still have no lawyer, business manager, or, even real manager in place. It is a nightmare!"Trell said the only time he saw an artist's signature required to retain an independent contractor was for Dr. Murray. Trell said his understanding was that Dr. Murray worked for Michael for 3 years; didn't know how many times MJ saw Dr. Murray. "I've never spoken with Dr. Murray ever. And I met/spoke with Mr. Jackson once," Trell said. "He was a significant expense," Trell testified about Dr. Murray.Trell said AEG Live didn't do anything to check Dr. Murray's competency as doctor, other than checking his physician license. Trell said AEG didn't do anything to determine Dr. Murray's financial conditions in 2009. Jury was shown an email that Phillips sent to Kenny Ortega on night of June 20, 2009. It was email urging Ortega to stand down. Email on 6/20/09 Phillips to Ortega : "Kenny it's critical that neither you, me, anyone around this show become amateur psychiatrist/physicians. I had a lengthy conversation with Dr. Murray, who I am gaining immense respect for as I get to deal with him more. He said that Michael is not only physically equipped to perform & discouraging him to will hasten his decline instead of stopping it. Dr. Murray also reiterated that he is mentally able to and was speaking to me from the house where he had spent the morning with Michael. This doctor is extremely successful (we check everyone out) and does not need this gig so he is totally unbiased and ethical"Panish asked Trell whether Phillips "characterization to Ortega, given no background check was done, was a lie". Trell responded that he didn't know what Phillips knew or was thinking when he wrote that email to Ortega. Trell also said he expected Randy Phillips to testify at some point during the trial, so he could address the email himself Panish then asked Trell, "Sir, you never checked out one single thing about Dr. Murray -- you've already told me that, correct?""As of the date of the email, that would've been correct",Trell said. When pressed by Panish, Trell said that Phillips' statement that Murray had been checked out, along with the executive's claim that the doctor 'does not need this gig' were inaccurate. "I don't know where Randy's understanding or impression comes from", Trell said.Trell testified that Phillips might have been "misinformed" or simply was stating his impression of the Las Vegas cardiologist Panish: "But no one at AEG checked Dr. Murray to see if he was successful or not, isn't that true?"Trell: "Yes" Panish then asked several pointed questions about whether Shawn Trell agreed with Phillips telling Ortega they'd checked Murray out. One of Panish's questions was whether Trell thought Phillips' email was 'acceptable conduct' Panish called Phillips' statement "a flat out lie" and asked Trell whether he agreed with it or if it signified how AEG did business. Trell said he didn't know what Phillips thought he knew when he wrote the message. "I know this statement is not accurate, but you'd have to speak with Mr. Phillips about what he thought or meant in saying it," Trell said. Panish: "That's a flat out lie, isn't it sir?"Trell: "I don't know what Mr. Phillips intended to say, this should be a question to him" Panish: "You don't know if he was successful or facing bankruptcy, did you?" Trell: "No" Trell: "I know the statement is not accurate. You have to speak with Mr. Phillips about what he meant to say" Panish: "Do you agree with the CEO of your company making untrue statements?" Trell: "I don't know that he didn't know it wasn't true when he said it" Trell said Phillips never told him that he checked Dr. Murray out. As to reference in Phillips' email about Dr. Murray being unbiased, ethical, not needing this gig, Trell said it was Phillips' impressions. He said AEG typically only runs background checks on candidates applying for full-time jobs with AEG, not independent contractors. Panish: "Isn't it true AEG Live does not do background check on independent contractors?"Trell: "That's true" Trell said that no one from AEG interviewed Dr. Murray because he was an independent contractor. "Did anyone from AEG ever at any time interview Dr. Murray", asked Brian Panish"No", Trell replied. Panish showed a document used by AEG entitled "Disclosure and Authorization to Conduct Background Check". Doc is used for employment, promotion, retention, contingent or the rate staffing, consulting, sub-contract work, or volunteer work. Panish asked if there was any reason why Dr. Murray was not given a background check. "He wasn't an employee, he wasn't applying for a full time position with the company," Trell explained.Trell said theoretically they could've asked to check Dr. Murray's background and credit. AEG Cross Jessica Bina began her examination by showing the letter submitted by AEG's CFO to the Estate of Michael Jackson for their review. She asked Shawn Trell about the estimate presented to Jackson's estate that included Murray's $300k fees. She asked why it was prepared. Shawn Trell said it was done at the request of the estate. He said Jackson's estate wanted to know state of tour finances when Jackson died. Trell said the report was requested by the Estate after a series of meetings after Michael's death. "The purpose of the meeting was to wind up the business affairs of the tour due to Michael's death", Trell said. "It was my understating in June Tohme was back in the picture in some capacity. I'm not sure which, Mr. DiLeo was in it too," Trell saidBina: "Is there any request for payment?" Trell: "No, there's no demand for payment, it's for review" Stebbins Bina asked about the inclusion of Murray's fee in the document. Bina showed the report that was attached to the letter. Murray's fee on the document had a footnote. Trell read what that footnote said, and explained why estate wasn't asked for Murray's fee. Next to "Management Medical" there's a reference to footnote 3. Note 3: 'Contract is not signed by Michael Jackson and such signature was condition precedent to any payment obligation' - Footnote on Murray fee.Trell testified Webking, the CFO for AEG, did not ask Michael's Estate for payment of Dr. Murray's salary "You testified you were somewhat confused (by the inclusion of the $300,000)?", Bina asked Trell as she projected the list, dated July 17, 2009, on a screen for jurors."Do you see there's something in parentheses?', Stebbins Bina asked, zooming in to blow up a footnote from AEG CFO Frederick Webking that stated Michael Jackson never signed Murray's contract, so its terms were not enforceable. "Is Mr. Webking asking the estate to pay?", Stebbins Bina asked Trell. "No", he replied, explaining that upon reflection he believed Mr. Webking was just being 'thorough' by including the $300,000 as a budgeted cost. "Did Mr. Webking make a mistake as you thought yesterday?",she asked. "No, he did not", Trell answered Second report made to the Estate on 9/18/09, there was no amount next to management medical. Stebbins Bina then showed a Sept. 2009 report of This Is It's finances to Michael Jackson's estate. Murray's fee is not listed in that document Trell went through his job description with AEG. He said he has five lawyers in his department and has worked on thousands of agreements. Trell explained what PMK is -- Person Most Knowledgeable, identified by the company to testify on its behalf. Trell said he didn't know about all the topics he was designated, so he had to do some studying and interviews with people As to Ortega's contract, Trell said he was aware of a string of emails being at least a part of the original agreement with Kenny. "When we were done here yesterday, I looked at Kenny Ortega's original agreement," Trell said.Trell noted he hadn't looked at Ortega's agreement since it was entered into in 2009. Before the afternoon break, Trell and jury were shown Kenny Ortega's tour agreement. It was signed in April 2009. The agreement was three pages of legalese, with several pages of emails attached that confirmed the terms. The first three pages included some paragraphs that described who owned the rights to This Is It content. A large number of emails are part of the agreement as exhibits. Trell said he recalled the emails exchange and admitted again not being proud of forgetting the cover contract portion. Bina showed Ortega's executed contract with everyone's signature on it. Trell said Kenny Ortega was paid after his contract was signed. Trell, Phillips and Kathy Jorrie were involved in drafting and negotiating the contract with Michael Jackson. For MJ, Trell said Dr. Tohme Tohme and attorneys Dennis Hawk and Peter Lopez represented him. He said there were multiple drafts. "It's my understanding they were talking to, or at least receiving offers from, a competitive of ours, Live Nation," Trell said.Trell also said that before signing an agreement with AEG, Jackson had been considering a tour offer from its main competitor, Live Nation. Bina showed the jury the final tour agreement. Trell said he went to MJ's home at Carolwood to sign it. Upon arrival, Trell said Mr. Jackson got up from where he was seated, and said 'Hi, welcome, I'm Michael." Trell said it was pretty funny, since he was a very distinct person. Trell said they shook hands, he had a good firm handshake and his voice was not what people think "He popped up, came over, introduced himself, was very cordial, there was a real positive energy, good vibe in the room," Trell said. "He seemed genuinely enthused," Trell added. "He had the contract in front of him, said he read every page, seemed very enthused." Trell said they all signed it and Mr. Jackson was really keen on the 3-D stuff, that he was already down the road in his mind. "I was probably there just a little less than an hour. And that was the only time I met him," Trell recalled.Bina discussed the contract for the tour agreement: A first class performance by Artist at each show on each of the approved itineraries. Contract: Artist shall perform no less than 80 minutes at each show, and the maximum show length for each show shall be 3.5 hours. Artist shall approve a sufficient number of shows on itineraries proposed by promoter or producer as to recoup the advances made.Trell said compensation was agreed on 90-10 split. Artist received 90% of what's defined contingent compensation. Trell explained to jury how concerts get paid for. One scenario is artist pays for production up front. A second scenario is that the promoter gives artist an advance, and then they use the money to put together the show. The third option, Trell said, is the artist pays someone like AEG Live to produce and promote the show, with costs to come out of their pay. Trell called the second and third option like an interest-free loan. In Jackson's case, AEG agreed to a 90/10 split of show's proceeds. Jackson would have received the 90% portion, Trell said. Jackson was also on the hook for a 5% production fee AEG Live was promoter & producer. "We advanced the money necessary to mount the tour," Trell explained. "It's interest free money".Trell testified that Jackson's advance, which covered his $100,000-a-month rent on his mansion and a $3-million payment to settle a lawsuit that would free up his performance rights, was considered a loan to be paid back to AEG. Part of the advance was to pay off the settlement agreement of $3 million in London court. The underlying dispute was that a company owned the rights for Jackson's live performance. "The rights needed to be freed up," Trell said.The advances were to be paid back to AEG Live before the split of revenue. Production Advances were capped to $7.5 million. Contract: Artist was responsible for all the production costs in excess of the cap and had to reimburse promoter. "Michael Jackson was known to have very elaborate productions," Trell said. "Production values can get significant, for lack of a better word, it really depends on how many bells and whistles they want," Trell said.Trell said AEG would not advance money without the artist requesting it. Trell said it's not only typical and customary, but standard and artist needs to secure either non-appearance or cancellation insurance. Their interest in the policy, Trell said, was to cover the advances and production costs incurred with the production of the show. "If the were no obligations to AEG, the payout would go back to the artist", Trell explained, "It just recoups our loan made to the artist."Trell was also asked about elements of tour insurance policies and an agreement with former manager Tohme Tohme. Jackson's contract called for him to represent to AEG that he didn't have any health conditions that would keep him from performing. Contract: Artistco hereby represents and warrants that artist does not possess any known health conditions, injuries or ailments that would reasonable be expected to interfere with Artist's first class performance at each of the shows during the termOh Tohme's $100k per month agreement, Trell was shown a January contract that Jackson signed to pay that amount. However, Trell said Tohme's agreement was predicated on Jackson getting tour cancellation insurance by a certain date. Deadline passed and by that point Tohme was no longer Jackson's manager, so he wasn't entitled to be paid his monthly fee. January 24, 2009 -- agreement entered with Dr. Tohme Tohme. Trell said Michael was involved and signed this agreement. "This agreement was entered into January 26, Trell testified. "There are conditions that needed to be met before any payment could be made."One of the the conditions was placement of non-appearance insurance, Trell said. That placement was done in late April, early May. In May, AEG received letter from MJ saying Tohme didn't rep him anymore. "No payments were ever made under this agreement," Trell explained.Court Transcript Rebbie Jackson attending court https://preview.redd.it/mmatrsug5o1d1.jpg?width=443&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2bb18c8e5e6bca215719208409346bccaf96bc4 https://preview.redd.it/h6ywhnug5o1d1.jpg?width=443&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4576d97371141a308ad6300fb33400f28ed009e3 https://preview.redd.it/wd14srug5o1d1.jpg?width=508&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31ded1abac7f1916fc67b5d0b264dd231b96f275 https://preview.redd.it/pvrb3vug5o1d1.jpg?width=423&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e4e93a20eccf030747d4ee60a95365b5e41e9ce https://preview.redd.it/yexbwrug5o1d1.jpg?width=419&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c26155b8478e7c48f8863d946b836f1ab2a13fe8 https://preview.redd.it/o6nzk0vg5o1d1.jpg?width=483&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f146baaaa738ec5fe700fa42aaf58e138f21165f https://preview.redd.it/vuozioug5o1d1.jpg?width=431&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f229517cb96a8f80571439f6f0e27f8c6c7852bc |
2024.05.21 15:01 wisdomperception The Six Elements Inquiring into the presupposition of 'I Am' (MN 140)
 | Once, the Buddha had a chance encounter with a young bhikkhu Pukkusāti who had gone forth with faith in the Buddha but had never met him. Mistaking the Buddha for an ordinary bhikkhu, Pukkusāti welcomed him. This led to an intriguing exchange with the Buddha sharing a teaching focusing on the nature of the six elements, the six bases of contact, and the eighteen explorations of the mind.Meditator in a tranquil landscape in an impressionist style Thus have I heard — Once, the Blessed One was wandering in the land of the Magadhans and arrived at Rājagaha; he went to where Bhaggava the potter was. Having approached, the Blessed One said to Bhaggava the potter, "If it's not inconvenient for you, Bhaggava, may we stay in your workshop for one night?" "It's not inconvenient for me, venerable sir. There is an ascetic who arrived first. If he permits it, then stay, venerable sir, as you like," Bhaggava replied. At that time, a young man named Pukkusāti, out of faith in the Blessed One, had gone forth from home into homelessness. He was the one who had arrived first at the potter's workshop. Then, the Blessed One approached where Venerable Pukkusāti was; having approached, he said to Venerable Pukkusāti, "If it's not inconvenient for you, bhikkhu, may we stay in your workshop for one night?" "The workshop is spacious, friend. Please stay, Venerable, as you like," replied Venerable Pukkusāti. Then, the Blessed One entered the potter's workshop and, after preparing a seat of grass at one side, sat down, folding his legs crosswise, setting his body erect, and establishing mindfulness in front of him. The Blessed One spent much of the night seated in meditation. Venerable Pukkusāti too spent much of the night seated in meditation. Then, it occurred to the Blessed One, "This young man conducts himself well. Perhaps I should question him." So, the Blessed One asked Venerable Pukkusāti, "For whom, bhikkhu, have you gone forth? Who is your teacher? Whose Dhamma do you profess?" "Friend, there is the ascetic Gotama, the son of the Sakyans, who went forth from the Sakyan clan. And about the Blessed One Gotama, such a splendid reputation has spread: 'Indeed, he is the Blessed One, an Arahant, a Fully Enlightened One, accomplished in knowledge and conduct, well-gone, a knower of the worlds, an unsurpassed trainer of persons to be tamed, a teacher of gods and humans, the Enlightened One, the Blessed One.' I have gone forth inspired by the Blessed One Gotama. He is my teacher, and it is his Dhamma that I profess." "And where is that Blessed One, the Arahant, the Fully Enlightened One now residing?" the Blessed One asked. "Friend, in the northern country there is a city named Sāvatthi. There the Blessed One, the Arahant, the Fully Enlightened One, is now residing," replied Venerable Pukkusāti. "Have you ever seen that Blessed One before, bhikkhu? Would you recognize him if you saw him?" the Blessed One inquired. "No, friend, I have not seen that Blessed One before; and I would not recognize him if I saw him," Venerable Pukkusāti replied. Then, it occurred to the Blessed One, "This young man has gone forth out of faith in me. Perhaps I should teach him the Dhamma." Then, the Blessed One addressed Venerable Pukkusāti, "I will teach you the Dhamma, bhikkhu. Listen and pay close attention; I will speak." "As you say, friend," Venerable Pukkusāti responded to the Blessed One. The Blessed One said: "This person, bhikkhu, is made of six elements, six bases of contact, eighteen explorations of mind, and is established in four ways; where standing, the notions of 'I am' do not proceed, and in whom, when these notions do not proceed, is called a sage at peace. One should not be negligent in wisdom, should guard the truth, should cultivate relinquishment, and should train for peace itself — this is the essence of the Analysis of the Elements. 'This person, bhikkhu, is made of six elements' — thus it has been said. Why has it been said? There are these six elements, bhikkhu: the earth element, the water element, the fire element, the air element, the space element, and the consciousness element. 'This person, bhikkhu, is made of six elements' — it has been said with reference to this. 'This person, bhikkhu, has six bases of contact' — thus it has been said. Why has it been said? The eye-contact base, the ear-contact base, the nose-contact base, the tongue-contact base, the body-contact base, the mind-contact base. 'This person, bhikkhu, has six bases of contact' — it has been said with reference to this. 'This person, bhikkhu, engages in eighteen explorations of mind' — thus it has been said. Why has it been said? On seeing a form with the eye, one explores a form that gives rise to pleasure, a form that gives rise to displeasure, and a form that gives rise to equanimity; on hearing a sound with the ear ... on smelling an odor with the nose ... on tasting a flavor with the tongue ... on touching a tactile object with the body ... on cognizing a mental object (arisen from a mental quality) with the mind, one explores a mental object that gives rise to pleasure, a mental object that gives rise to displeasure, and a mental object that gives rise to equanimity. 'This person, bhikkhu, engages in eighteen explorations of mind' — it has been said with reference to this. 'This person, bhikkhu, is established in four ways' — thus it has been said. Why has it been said? The establishment of wisdom, the establishment of truth, the establishment of relinquishment, the establishment of peace. 'This person, bhikkhu, is established in four ways' — it has been said with reference to this. 'One should not be negligent in wisdom, should guard the truth, should cultivate relinquishment, and should train for peace itself'— thus it has been said. Why has it been said? The Six ElementsAnd how, bhikkhu, does one not neglect wisdom? There are these six elements, bhikkhu: the earth element, the water element, the fire element, the air element, the space element, and the consciousness element.And what, bhikkhu, is the earth element? The earth element may be internal or external. And what, bhikkhu, is the internal earth element? Whatever internally, belonging to oneself, is solid, solidified, and clung to, that is, hair of the head, hair of the body, nails, teeth, skin, flesh, sinews, bones, bone marrow, kidneys, heart, liver, diaphragm, spleen, lungs, intestines, mesentery, contents of the stomach, feces, or whatever else internally, belonging to oneself, is solid, solidified, and clung to — this is called the internal earth element. Both the internal earth element and the external earth element are simply earth elements. 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self' — thus should it be seen with proper wisdom as it really is. Having seen it thus with proper wisdom, one becomes disenchanted with the earth element and makes the mind dispassionate towards the earth element. And what, bhikkhu, is the water element? The water element may be internal or external. And what, bhikkhu, is the internal water element? Whatever internally, belonging to oneself, is liquid, liquefied, and clung to, that is, bile, phlegm, pus, blood, sweat, fat, tears, grease, spit, snot, oil of the joints, urine, or whatever else internally, belonging to oneself, is liquid, liquefied, and clung to — this is called the internal water element. Both the internal water element and the external water element are simply water elements. 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self' — thus should it be seen with proper wisdom as it really is. Having seen it thus with proper wisdom, one becomes disenchanted with the water element and makes the mind dispassionate towards the water element. And what, bhikkhu, is the fire element? The fire element may be internal or external. And what, bhikkhu, is the internal fire element? Whatever internally, belonging to oneself, is fire, fiery, and clung to, that is, by which one is warmed, ages, and is consumed, and by which what is eaten, drunk, chewed, and tasted gets fully digested, or whatever else internally, belonging to oneself, is fire, fiery, and clung to — this is called the internal fire element. Both the internal fire element and the external fire element are simply fire elements. 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self' — thus should it be seen with proper wisdom as it really is. Having seen it thus with proper wisdom, one becomes disenchanted with the fire element and makes the mind dispassionate towards the fire element. And what, bhikkhu, is the air element? The air element may be internal or external. And what, bhikkhu, is the internal air element? Whatever internally, belonging to oneself, is air, airy, and clung to, that is, up-going winds, down-going winds, winds in the belly, winds in the bowels, winds that course through the limbs, in-breathing and out-breathing, or whatever else internally, belonging to oneself, is air, airy, and clung to — this is called the internal air element. Both the internal air element and the external air element are simply air elements. 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self' — thus should it be seen with proper wisdom as it really is. Having seen it thus with proper wisdom, one becomes disenchanted with the air element and makes the mind dispassionate towards the air element. And what, bhikkhu, is the space element? The space element may be internal or external. And what, bhikkhu, is the internal space element? Whatever internally, belonging to oneself, is space, spatial, and clung to, that is, the holes of the ears, the nostrils, the door of the mouth, and where whatever is eaten, drunk, chewed, and tasted is swallowed, where it stands, where it is stored, and where it is excreted from below, or whatever else internally, belonging to oneself, is space, spatial, and clung to — this is called the internal space element. Both the internal space element and the external space element are simply space elements. 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self' — thus should it be seen with proper wisdom as it really is. Having seen it thus with proper wisdom, one becomes disenchanted with the space element and makes the mind dispassionate towards the space element. Then, only consciousness remains, pure and bright. And with that consciousness, what does one cognize? One cognizes 'pleasant', one cognizes 'painful', and one cognizes 'neither-painful-nor-pleasant'. The Eighteen Explorations of Mind
One thus understands: 'If I were to direct this equanimity so pure and so bright towards the sphere of infinite space (dissolution of distinctions of form element) and develop my mind accordingly, this equanimity, relying on that, clinging (grasping) to that, would last for a long time. If I were to direct this equanimity so pure and so bright towards the sphere of infinite consciousness (boundless awareness)... towards the sphere of nothingness (emptiness and absence)... towards the sphere of neither perception nor non-perception and develop my mind accordingly, this equanimity, relying on that, clinging to that, would last for a long time.' One thus understands: 'If I were to direct this equanimity, so pure and bright, towards the sphere of infinite space (dissolution of distinctions of form element) and develop my mind accordingly, this is conditioned. If I were to direct this equanimity, so pure and bright, towards the sphere of infinite consciousness... towards the sphere of nothingness... towards the sphere of neither perception nor non-perception and develop my mind accordingly, this is conditioned.' Thus, one does not form any volitional formations for either existence or non-existence. Not forming any volitions for either, one does not cling to anything in the world. Not clinging, one does not worry. Without worry, one personally attains Nibbāna. 'Re-birth is exhausted, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more coming to any state of being,' one understands. Whether experiencing a pleasant feeling, one understands 'it is impermanent', 'I am not involved with it', 'I do not delight in it'. Whether experiencing a painful feeling or a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling, one understands the same. Experiencing a pleasant feeling, one experiences it unattached; experiencing a painful feeling, one experiences it unattached; experiencing a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling, one experiences it unattached. Experiencing a feeling limited to the body, one understands 'I experience a feeling limited to the body'; experiencing a feeling limited to life, one understands 'I experience a feeling limited to life', 'With the break-up of the body, following death, all that is felt, not being delighted in, will become cool right here.' Just as, bhikkhu, an oil lamp burns dependent on oil and a wick, and with the exhaustion of the oil and wick, it is extinguished due to lack of fuel; similarly, experiencing a feeling limited to the body, one understands 'I experience a feeling limited to the body'; experiencing a feeling limited to life, one understands 'I experience a feeling limited to life', 'With the break-up of the body, following death, all that is felt, not being delighted in, will become cool right here.' Established in Four Ways
"One should not neglect wisdom, should protect the truth, should cultivate relinquishment, and should train for peace itself"— thus has it been said. This has been said on account of this. Notions of 'I am'"Where standing, the notions of 'I am' do not proceed, and in whom, when these notions do not proceed, he is called a sage at peace" — thus indeed has it been said. What was this said on account of?"It is 'I am,' bhikkhu, that is a presumption.
"Where standing, the notions of 'I am' do not proceed, and in whom, when these notions do not proceed, he is called a sage at peace"— thus has it been said. This has been said on account of this. "You should remember this brief exposition of the six elements from me, bhikkhu." --------------- In this teaching, the Buddha gets mistaken for an ordinary bhikkhu by a young bhikkhu who had gone forth with faith in the Buddha. It is indicative that the Buddha conducted himself with an outward appearance indistinguishable from that of other bhikkhus that trained under him. Seeing the young bhikkhu conducting himself well, the Buddha shares with him this teaching of the six elements of earth, water, fire, wind, space and consciousness - which when practiced allows for establishing oneself in mindfulness, freed from craving and grief for the world. The Buddha further shares on the eighteen explorations of the mind through the three kinds of feelings: pleasant, painful and neither-painful-nor-pleasant born from the six sense contacts (form meeting the eye, along with arising of eye-consciousness, ... , mental object meeting the mind, along with arising of the mind-consciousness). He shares these as a way to understand the consciousness element and how it cognizes. The Buddha then describes the gradual steps from there that lead to the realization of Nibbāna, leading to being established in the four ways of wisdom, truth, relinquishment, and peace. The Buddha finally shares on the letting go of the 'I am' presumption and any subsequent presumptions that emerge from this, which form the core of what leads one to experience discontentment through worry, agitation, and dissatisfaction. Closely examining the presumption of 'I am' inherent in René Descartes's "Cogito, ergo sum" ("I think, therefore I am"), which has underpinned modern philosophy, scientific and rational investigations, individualism, literature and pop culture, psychology, and technology (including debates on machine consciousness), reveals how deeply the world we find ourselves in today is influenced by this concept. Realizing the truth of "I am" then individually opens up new possibilities and frontiers to be explored across all of these domains. Related Teachings:
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2024.05.21 15:01 Lunax101 Is she narcissistic or just a bad mom?
Hi all,
This is actually my first post on here. A little about myself I’m the eldest daughter (23yrs) in a brown household (love that for myself). I swear if I could be born again I’d love to be the youngest of the family (even thought I guess if someone’s narcissistic it doesn’t truly matter whether you’re the eldest or youngest)
Anyway, I’m currently in a country and I’m moving to the states and my mum and lil brother are staying there with my dad atm. My sister (18yrs) is busy with the most important exams of her high school(she’s in her last year) and me and my brother(he’s 22) just finished our university exams so we’re free! It’s just us 3 in this country rn and our flight back is in 30 days and we both need to sell all the extra stuff in the house that didn’t come with our rented house. We also need to pack all our clothes etc and clean this house.
So far I’m the only one who’s been working on selling stuff on Facebook marketplace and cleaning out cabinets in the kitchen and the garage etc. my brother spends the entire day on his computer playing games or watching anime. I don’t hate my brother but sometimes I get really close to it. If I was his mom I swear he would’ve long been disowned. He’s the most unclean person alive (he never cleans his own bathroom, he leaves his dishes in his room for me to come collect and clean, never picks up his own dirty clothes I have to do his laundry, I even had to clean his shoes after he went out yesterday simply because i couldn’t stand how dirty they were) I like to stay clean and keep the house clean too. The only reason he even leaves his room is to eat (Ofcourse I’m the one cooking)
The issue is my parents have both simply given up on him at this point which he uses to his advantage even more. He’s living his best life, goes out with his friends and doesn’t lift a finger in the house.
Despite all this my mum still calls me and gets mad at me for doing things too slowly and not putting everything up on Facebook marketplace quickly enough?! I’ve already sold two items on there but it takes a while to make sure the person coming to our house isn’t a creep. Yet, every time she calls all she talks about is how I’m not taking things seriously, how I’m so lazy, how I’ll pay for the flight tickets if I don’t sell everything beforehand. We needed to renew a card for travelling and there’s a long wait time on it (3 months) which I still applied for despite the wait but yesterday I found out that I could request it earlier if it’s an emergency with the flight details. However rather than being happy or thanking me for finding this out my mum simply gave out since I should’ve found this earlier and it’s my fault if we don’t get an appointment quickly enough.
My friends are all travelling and doing their own things in life and since this week is the last week they’re free they asked me to hang out but I can’t even tell my mom that “hey can I pls hang out with them one last time” because I just know she’ll flip. I’m so stressed about this whole situation and I literally feel so numb and sad all the time. I’m not a social person either but I wanna go out just to change my environment. I know so many people have it worse but ah I wish i could catch a break.
Even when I finally get to the states I know my parents are expecting me to work as soon as I get there. I just want a week off. Just to live my own life in peace and not stress about anything. What would you do if u were in my position?
submitted by Lunax101 to raisedbynarcissists [link] [comments]
This is actually my first post on here. A little about myself I’m the eldest daughter (23yrs) in a brown household (love that for myself). I swear if I could be born again I’d love to be the youngest of the family (even thought I guess if someone’s narcissistic it doesn’t truly matter whether you’re the eldest or youngest)
Anyway, I’m currently in a country and I’m moving to the states and my mum and lil brother are staying there with my dad atm. My sister (18yrs) is busy with the most important exams of her high school(she’s in her last year) and me and my brother(he’s 22) just finished our university exams so we’re free! It’s just us 3 in this country rn and our flight back is in 30 days and we both need to sell all the extra stuff in the house that didn’t come with our rented house. We also need to pack all our clothes etc and clean this house.
So far I’m the only one who’s been working on selling stuff on Facebook marketplace and cleaning out cabinets in the kitchen and the garage etc. my brother spends the entire day on his computer playing games or watching anime. I don’t hate my brother but sometimes I get really close to it. If I was his mom I swear he would’ve long been disowned. He’s the most unclean person alive (he never cleans his own bathroom, he leaves his dishes in his room for me to come collect and clean, never picks up his own dirty clothes I have to do his laundry, I even had to clean his shoes after he went out yesterday simply because i couldn’t stand how dirty they were) I like to stay clean and keep the house clean too. The only reason he even leaves his room is to eat (Ofcourse I’m the one cooking)
The issue is my parents have both simply given up on him at this point which he uses to his advantage even more. He’s living his best life, goes out with his friends and doesn’t lift a finger in the house.
Despite all this my mum still calls me and gets mad at me for doing things too slowly and not putting everything up on Facebook marketplace quickly enough?! I’ve already sold two items on there but it takes a while to make sure the person coming to our house isn’t a creep. Yet, every time she calls all she talks about is how I’m not taking things seriously, how I’m so lazy, how I’ll pay for the flight tickets if I don’t sell everything beforehand. We needed to renew a card for travelling and there’s a long wait time on it (3 months) which I still applied for despite the wait but yesterday I found out that I could request it earlier if it’s an emergency with the flight details. However rather than being happy or thanking me for finding this out my mum simply gave out since I should’ve found this earlier and it’s my fault if we don’t get an appointment quickly enough.
My friends are all travelling and doing their own things in life and since this week is the last week they’re free they asked me to hang out but I can’t even tell my mom that “hey can I pls hang out with them one last time” because I just know she’ll flip. I’m so stressed about this whole situation and I literally feel so numb and sad all the time. I’m not a social person either but I wanna go out just to change my environment. I know so many people have it worse but ah I wish i could catch a break.
Even when I finally get to the states I know my parents are expecting me to work as soon as I get there. I just want a week off. Just to live my own life in peace and not stress about anything. What would you do if u were in my position?
2024.05.21 14:59 decibel92 Extreme regret 2.5 months in
Hi all
Weird that I'm making this post but honestly would like some support by anyone who has been through something similar. I was a NW 2-3, early 30s, kinda slowly losing some hair since years and probably pretty much stabilized, as my father has the same hairline/timelines. Nothing too bad, most people were like "you don't need a transplant etc". Uppercuts were fine I guess and generally my hair didn't cause me social issues (pretty much attractive).
I had the idea of getting a transplant for a couple of years, because "I was a mild case and could fix it good", but no time to do it. Didn't research too much cause I knew someone through my father who was supposed to be very experienced and respectable in my country so it was a no brainer (stupid idea). His results looked ok, but now I realise that the pictures were not ideally taken, and since looking at other works from experts I know that they're not really good, so I am really anxious. The decision was made fast, without much research as I had limited time and energy atm (won't go in details as to why this happened).
So I'm 2.5 months post-op. I started regretting one week in due to finding a lot of doubles on my hairline. I had a lot of other issues going on (huge risks, instability, change of country/work, life pretty much falling apart) and thought this would help my confidence while I was taking my next steps. Turns out it f*cked me hard. These past 2 months have been some of the worst in my life, and I've been through a lot of shit. I feel like I destroyed my head, that it's gonna look awful and need repairs and time and energy and money and since it wouldn't be something extremely life changing anyway, this whole period is not worth it. I feel that I was attractive and now I'm gonna look like shit. I'm definitely in the ugly duckling phase but didn't shed somewhere like 40% of hairs so they look weird. I have developed a very sensitive eye in picking up transplants and honestly am starting to like my previously receding hairline. I just want it back and be in peace (I know I can't).
All this has brought my like to a halt. I can't concentrate on important stuff and everyone around me thinks I'm overreacting and it "looks fine" etc. Yes it might be overreaction, yes I am getting support. Any other suggestions on how to cope, please?
submitted by decibel92 to HairTransplants [link] [comments]
Weird that I'm making this post but honestly would like some support by anyone who has been through something similar. I was a NW 2-3, early 30s, kinda slowly losing some hair since years and probably pretty much stabilized, as my father has the same hairline/timelines. Nothing too bad, most people were like "you don't need a transplant etc". Uppercuts were fine I guess and generally my hair didn't cause me social issues (pretty much attractive).
I had the idea of getting a transplant for a couple of years, because "I was a mild case and could fix it good", but no time to do it. Didn't research too much cause I knew someone through my father who was supposed to be very experienced and respectable in my country so it was a no brainer (stupid idea). His results looked ok, but now I realise that the pictures were not ideally taken, and since looking at other works from experts I know that they're not really good, so I am really anxious. The decision was made fast, without much research as I had limited time and energy atm (won't go in details as to why this happened).
So I'm 2.5 months post-op. I started regretting one week in due to finding a lot of doubles on my hairline. I had a lot of other issues going on (huge risks, instability, change of country/work, life pretty much falling apart) and thought this would help my confidence while I was taking my next steps. Turns out it f*cked me hard. These past 2 months have been some of the worst in my life, and I've been through a lot of shit. I feel like I destroyed my head, that it's gonna look awful and need repairs and time and energy and money and since it wouldn't be something extremely life changing anyway, this whole period is not worth it. I feel that I was attractive and now I'm gonna look like shit. I'm definitely in the ugly duckling phase but didn't shed somewhere like 40% of hairs so they look weird. I have developed a very sensitive eye in picking up transplants and honestly am starting to like my previously receding hairline. I just want it back and be in peace (I know I can't).
All this has brought my like to a halt. I can't concentrate on important stuff and everyone around me thinks I'm overreacting and it "looks fine" etc. Yes it might be overreaction, yes I am getting support. Any other suggestions on how to cope, please?
2024.05.21 14:56 Crazy-Concern8080 Hearts and Minds 4: When All is Said - (Part 5)
Even if you don’t speak the first time, just being with other people who can understand you will help.
First
Previous
You know the drill: credit to SpacePaladin15 for the universe.
Thank you JulianSkies for proofreading.
Memory Transcription Subject: Billy Marsh, Dirt
Date [Standardized Human Time]: March 29, 2142
Why the hell couldn’t I get rid of Gillab? I wanted him gone, he was ruining everything, and he is even technically trespassing in my house. I could easily get him removed with a simple nine-one-one call, so why couldn’t I just do it? Is there something else wrong with my head? Another problem I needed to deal with?
I wish I had some alcohol. Something to take my mind off of this. The memories were starting to come back more and more as well, last night was the worst sleep I have had in a while. The night terrors I once kept away with liquor had returned, something that scared Gillab half to death. He said that I was screaming bloody murder in my sleep, but just like every other time I’ve had a night terror, I couldn’t even remember a single detail.
But that didn’t matter now, what did was trying to give a decent first impression. I don’t know why, it’s not like I care, but I found myself wanting to look halfway presentable for the veterans’ meetup. Maybe I didn’t want others to waste their time worrying about me. Yeah, that was it. They shouldn’t need to worry about dirt like me. Still, I promised to ‘go through the motions,’ so here I was.
I didn’t really know how to describe the building, it almost looked like a warehouse. Short and wide, from the outside one would assume it was just another warehouse, but the inside had been turned into a community center. It was probably just another one of the overbuilt buildings that had been repurposed. There were tones of those around as architects and city planners would miscalculate how many of a certain type of building were needed. Many places were repurposed, this was just another.
I stopped at the door and looked over to Gillab. “This isn’t going to do anything. I’m just wasting time here.”
“No, you aren’t. Even if you don’t realize it, you are healing. Even just walking around outside of your house and eating a half-decent meal has helped, I can see that. You aren’t nearly as angry today as you were yesterday. Now go on, while you are doing this I’m going to run some errands for you. You need real food in your house.”
“Don’t bother, I don’t know how to cook.”
“Then we will learn. I don’t know how to cook Human food either. Kirala is the chef of the house.”
I thought to ask who Kirala was, but bit my tongue. I’m not supposed to care. “Whatever, I’m going in now.”
“See you soon Billy.”
I shut the door behind me and took stock of the room around me. It was a waiting area complete with inoffensive paintings and beige seats. At the opposite end of the room was a woman sitting behind a counter, typing away on a computer. Taking a deep breath, I walked up to talk to her.
“Hello, uhm, I’m here for the veterans’ group therapy session.”
“Oh course, that’ll be down that hall. Room number three, it should be on your left.”
I tried to stop bouncing my leg. “Thank you.”
I didn’t wait for a response and started down the hall, feeling a pit grow more and more in my stomach. What if this goes wrong? What if I just cause more problems? What if I ruin more people’s lives? What if I just make it worse?
I stopped in front of the door, my leg bouncing constantly. This was wrong, I shouldn’t be here. I’m unhelpable, I should just leave. Gillab said he was running errands, he wouldn’t even know that I skipped it.
The pit in my stomach began clearing as I turned away, but I couldn’t even take a single step before I stopped.
No, that’s wrong. I made a promise to Gillab, so I have to do this. Not for me, but for him. Even if I’m useless, I should still respect others.
But I could just lie, he wouldn’t know any better.
But what if he finds out?
Getting chewed out later is much easier than going through with this.
Isn’t this supposed to help though?
Do you think I deserve help?
Why… why shouldn’t I?
Because of what I’ve done. Who I've hurt. Who I have killed. The lives I have ruined trying to help them. If I was anything other than dirt, I could have saved so many more and ruined so few. Now stop stalling, and walk-
“Do you need help, sir?”
My heart plummeted and the bouncing immediately started. I turned around nervously, trying to form a single cohesive thought. A man was standing halfway in the doorway.
Don’t bother him, just say that I’m in the wrong spot.
“Uhh… N-”
My voice caught in my throat, almost causing me to cough.
“Y-yes. Is this the v-veterans’ therapy thing?”
Why did I say that?
The man stepped out of the doorway, a small smile now on his face. “Yep, this is it. You must be Billy, right? Charlotte told me that you were going to start showing up. I’m Richard, and yes, my friends call me Dick.”
Richard stuck out his hand. I stared at it for a split second before realizing I needed to shake it. As I did, I realized that it felt wrong. It was too tough to be a normal Human hand, it was almost like metal.
I looked up from the hand. “Y-you’re an amputee too?”
Richard smiled widely. “Sure am. Lost it on Sillis to an Arxur. I can see - feel - that you lost an arm as well.”
“Yeah… I’d prefer n-not to talk about it.”
Richard lost his smile, but not his courtesy. “I understand. I wasn’t able to even look at mine for a long time. Quite a few were just as unfortunate as us, a number of them come to these sessions as well. Would you like to step in? I was only going to leave to grab some refreshments.”
“S-sure. Yeah. I’ll find a seat.”
“Great, I’ll be right back.”
Richard departed for the end of the hall, leaving me standing awkwardly in front of the door. I could feel the pit begin to grow again and my leg started to bounce furiously.
Why did I say yes? Why did I say yes? Why did I say yes? Why did I say yes?
I’m in too deep now to back out, all I can do is go through the motions. It’s just motions. Just another step. One more breath. That’s all I have to do.
I stepped into the room, keeping my head lowered the entire time. There were three other people in the room, chatting idly with one another. Two Humans were chatting together, only briefly pausing to glance at me before starting right back up. The Venlil looked up from his phone and patted the seat next to himself, inviting me to sit next to him.
I sighed internally and made my way over, not wanting to set myself apart as the outcast. The Venlil watched me sit and only started talking when I was settled in. “Hi, I’m Tunek.”
I gave him a short nod, looked away, and realized I was supposed to give my own name. “I-I’m Billy.”
Tunek watched my hand for a moment, before leaning back in his chair. “So, is this your first time being at one of these?”
I nodded quickly. “Yes. I’m only here because of a friend.”
Tunek nodded. “Hey, as long as it gets you here. Just taking the first step is all it takes to start the journey. I stole that from Dick, but don’t tell him I said that.”
I nodded. “Sure.”
Tunek tilted his head in concern and moved to respond, but Richard returned just before he could speak. “Alright, I’m back with the waters and the snacks, why don’t we all grab one before we start?”
Everyone but me left their spot to grab something from the cooler that Richard brought back. The two Humans returned to their seats with some water and a cereal bar each, but Tunek hesitated when he started to return. He took a step, paused when he saw me, and turned back to grab another water and snack bar. He must have been hungry.
I looked down at myself as he walked back. Even if I was hungry, I didn’t deserve something to eat. My suffering was my punishment for what I had done and what I had failed to do. I don’t know why I’m here, I don’t deserve to get better. I’m just dirt, I should just-
“Here you go.”
I looked up to see Tunek handing me a bottle of water and a piece of fruit leather. Tentatively, I reached out and grabbed them. “How’d you know I was hungry?”
Tunek shrugged. “A hunch. It’s a little early for dinner and a bit after lunch and I figured I would be peckish around this time so you might be as well.”
I set the water bottle to the side and peeled open the fruit leather. “Thanks…”
“No problem.”
Richard took a sip of his water as I took my first bite, setting the bottle aside as he began to speak. “Alighty, now that everyone has something to keep them awake, I can start talking. As you might have noticed, we have a new member joining us today. So why don’t we all introduce ourselves? John, do you want to start with a name and a little about yourself?”
The man with short, brown-blonde hair sat up straight. “Sure, I’ll get this started. I’m John, I served the UN for four years before we made first contact, but only served for one after. I’m an only father, but I like to think that my wife is looking down from heaven trying to guide me. However, with how old Rachel is, it feels less like guiding and more strength-giving. Oh, and I hate the taste of lemons. I think that’s about it.”
The mention of lemons caused my stomach to tie itself in a knot. James always hated the taste of lemons. Just another reminder of how useless I am.
The man to the left of John smiled. “I guess it’s my turn. My name is Carter. I served the UN for three years until I was discharged for repeated disorderly conduct. I was in a bad spot for a while, but with the help of Dick here I got out of it. Well, start getting out of it. I still have some… flare-ups, but that’s why I’m here.”
Carter smiled, but it was sad. Tunek let him have his moment of silence, encouraging the veteran to be with his emotions for a moment, before starting his own introduction. “Well, I guess you already know my name, but for the sake of completion, I’ll say it again. I’m Tunek. I served the Venlil Space Force for around one Earth year before first contact, where I served with the UN until the conflict with the Yulpa on Grenelka. I… well… after that I couldn’t serve anymore. Something else… I’ve always wanted to learn how to play an instrument properly, but never had the drive to do it. That’s about it for me. Dick, since you were so kind to leave yourself for last, I think it’s your turn.”
Richard chuckled. “Yeah, I guess it is. Well, like I said earlier, my name is Richard, but don’t be afraid to call me Dick. I come from a military family and have always known the dangers of signing up, but that didn’t stop me. I didn’t realize that the war was affecting me until Milieu. Then and there I knew what needed to be done. Once the war was over, I went straight to work creating this.”
Richard paused for a moment to catch his breath. ”I knew that therapists were going to be swamped and many veterans were going to be left behind, so I took what little experience and knowledge I had with my military family and used it to help as many as I could. So now I meet with tons of veterans throughout the week to help them adjust to civilian life and overcome their internal struggles. I’m glad that you have joined us today and hope that we give a good first impression.”
I wasn’t ready for him to stop talking and scrambled to get my words out. “Y-yeah. So far everyone seems nice.”
“Well, if it’s good for you then it’s good for me. With that all out of the way, why don’t we jump right in? I’m not the type to beat around the bush. Let’s start with a simple recap of the week. How have you all been this last week? Any wins, losses, jumps, or setbacks? Remember, there’s no judgment here. We are all suffering together, but we heal together as well.”
The room was silent for a moment, everyone looking for someone else to start the chain, before Carter spoke up. “I guess I’ll go first, if you’ll let me.”
Richard sat down. “Of course Carter, whenever you are ready.”
Carter nodded and propped himself up on his elbows. “I, uh… I had another meltdown, on Wednesday. It came out of nowhere. Happened in the middle of the supermarket, I thought I was… I managed to make it home in time before it really started, but just barely. I was hardly in my room before I started bawling. I… I feel so alone sometimes. I can be in the middle of the supermarket and feel like I’ve been stranded on an island alone f-for years. I m-miss them so much. Y-you all have made it easier, but sometimes… Sometimes it’s too much.”
John placed a hand on Carter’s back and Richard offered a concerned look. “If you ever feel like that, feel free to call me.”
Carter sniffled and wiped away a forming tear. “I know, I know. You’ve told me before, and I almost did, but I thought that you wouldn’t need me bothering you in the middle of the day.”
“Carter, you know I would drop anything to come to your help. Only me dying could stop me.”
Carter leaned back in his chair and laughed even as he wiped away another tear. “Thank you, Dick, but please don’t go dying. You’re too nice for that.”
Richard smiled. “I don’t plan on it anytime soon, Carter. I still have so many more people to help.”
After a moment of silence, John took the initiative and started his own story. “I had a pretty big win this last week. I finally made it through a whole week without having suicidal thoughts.”
Richard smiled widely. “That's wonderful! I told you that you were making progress.”
“I know, but sometimes I feel like I have no purpose anymore. It’s overwhelming. My daughter is old enough to care for herself, I’m only working a menial labor job, I can’t find any hobbies to enjoy… I feel like nothing.”
“But you aren’t ‘nothing,’ you are you. And there is only one of you. I can’t go out and find another John, or another Carter, or Tunek, or Billy. You are all unique, and losing you would be a tragedy.”
Before I could stop myself, I spoke. “Am I really worth saving?”
Everyone went silent for a moment, caught off guard by my words. After Richard deciphered the sudden question, he gave a response with absolute certainty. “Absolutely. There is nothing in this world that can’t be forgiven or overcome.”
“Are you sure? After the things I’ve done… forget I said anything.”
Richard shook his head. “I can’t do that, Billy. I can’t willingly ignore someone in need.”
“I don’t need help. I’m getting exactly what I deserve for what I have done.”
“And what have you done?”
“I… I don’t want to talk about it.”
Richard sighed. “That’s okay, for now. Eventually, you will have to come to terms with it, but for now, you can just listen if you want to.”
“Yeah. I think I’m just going to listen.”
I leaned back and crossed my arms, letting Tunek speak his mind. “I think I know what you are going through. Not the specifics, but I think I can get a general idea.”
“No, I don’t think you do.”
Tunek was silent for a moment, before looking away from me and speaking. “I was on the Cradle when it fell, and on Sillis when the Arxur raided it, and on Milieu fighting off the Kolshians. I tried to save as many people as I could, but in the end, I could only make their passing less painful. I couldn’t even save my partner. I froze in the moment. I could have saved him. But I was frozen in fear. His death is entirely on my shoulders. I’m still fighting that to this day.”
I stared at Tunek for a second, before turning away and sighing. They didn’t know what I was going through, no one could. They didn’t know my crimes, if they did they would kick me out. Their problems, no matter how real, were nothing compared to mine. They still could be helped, I couldn’t.
Could I? If all these people could heal, why couldn’t I?
Because my crimes are too severe.
I… yeah…
submitted by Crazy-Concern8080 to NatureofPredators [link] [comments]
First
Previous
You know the drill: credit to SpacePaladin15 for the universe.
Thank you JulianSkies for proofreading.
Date [Standardized Human Time]: March 29, 2142
Why the hell couldn’t I get rid of Gillab? I wanted him gone, he was ruining everything, and he is even technically trespassing in my house. I could easily get him removed with a simple nine-one-one call, so why couldn’t I just do it? Is there something else wrong with my head? Another problem I needed to deal with?
I wish I had some alcohol. Something to take my mind off of this. The memories were starting to come back more and more as well, last night was the worst sleep I have had in a while. The night terrors I once kept away with liquor had returned, something that scared Gillab half to death. He said that I was screaming bloody murder in my sleep, but just like every other time I’ve had a night terror, I couldn’t even remember a single detail.
But that didn’t matter now, what did was trying to give a decent first impression. I don’t know why, it’s not like I care, but I found myself wanting to look halfway presentable for the veterans’ meetup. Maybe I didn’t want others to waste their time worrying about me. Yeah, that was it. They shouldn’t need to worry about dirt like me. Still, I promised to ‘go through the motions,’ so here I was.
I didn’t really know how to describe the building, it almost looked like a warehouse. Short and wide, from the outside one would assume it was just another warehouse, but the inside had been turned into a community center. It was probably just another one of the overbuilt buildings that had been repurposed. There were tones of those around as architects and city planners would miscalculate how many of a certain type of building were needed. Many places were repurposed, this was just another.
I stopped at the door and looked over to Gillab. “This isn’t going to do anything. I’m just wasting time here.”
“No, you aren’t. Even if you don’t realize it, you are healing. Even just walking around outside of your house and eating a half-decent meal has helped, I can see that. You aren’t nearly as angry today as you were yesterday. Now go on, while you are doing this I’m going to run some errands for you. You need real food in your house.”
“Don’t bother, I don’t know how to cook.”
“Then we will learn. I don’t know how to cook Human food either. Kirala is the chef of the house.”
I thought to ask who Kirala was, but bit my tongue. I’m not supposed to care. “Whatever, I’m going in now.”
“See you soon Billy.”
I shut the door behind me and took stock of the room around me. It was a waiting area complete with inoffensive paintings and beige seats. At the opposite end of the room was a woman sitting behind a counter, typing away on a computer. Taking a deep breath, I walked up to talk to her.
“Hello, uhm, I’m here for the veterans’ group therapy session.”
“Oh course, that’ll be down that hall. Room number three, it should be on your left.”
I tried to stop bouncing my leg. “Thank you.”
I didn’t wait for a response and started down the hall, feeling a pit grow more and more in my stomach. What if this goes wrong? What if I just cause more problems? What if I ruin more people’s lives? What if I just make it worse?
I stopped in front of the door, my leg bouncing constantly. This was wrong, I shouldn’t be here. I’m unhelpable, I should just leave. Gillab said he was running errands, he wouldn’t even know that I skipped it.
The pit in my stomach began clearing as I turned away, but I couldn’t even take a single step before I stopped.
No, that’s wrong. I made a promise to Gillab, so I have to do this. Not for me, but for him. Even if I’m useless, I should still respect others.
But I could just lie, he wouldn’t know any better.
But what if he finds out?
Getting chewed out later is much easier than going through with this.
Isn’t this supposed to help though?
Do you think I deserve help?
Why… why shouldn’t I?
Because of what I’ve done. Who I've hurt. Who I have killed. The lives I have ruined trying to help them. If I was anything other than dirt, I could have saved so many more and ruined so few. Now stop stalling, and walk-
“Do you need help, sir?”
My heart plummeted and the bouncing immediately started. I turned around nervously, trying to form a single cohesive thought. A man was standing halfway in the doorway.
Don’t bother him, just say that I’m in the wrong spot.
“Uhh… N-”
My voice caught in my throat, almost causing me to cough.
“Y-yes. Is this the v-veterans’ therapy thing?”
Why did I say that?
The man stepped out of the doorway, a small smile now on his face. “Yep, this is it. You must be Billy, right? Charlotte told me that you were going to start showing up. I’m Richard, and yes, my friends call me Dick.”
Richard stuck out his hand. I stared at it for a split second before realizing I needed to shake it. As I did, I realized that it felt wrong. It was too tough to be a normal Human hand, it was almost like metal.
I looked up from the hand. “Y-you’re an amputee too?”
Richard smiled widely. “Sure am. Lost it on Sillis to an Arxur. I can see - feel - that you lost an arm as well.”
“Yeah… I’d prefer n-not to talk about it.”
Richard lost his smile, but not his courtesy. “I understand. I wasn’t able to even look at mine for a long time. Quite a few were just as unfortunate as us, a number of them come to these sessions as well. Would you like to step in? I was only going to leave to grab some refreshments.”
“S-sure. Yeah. I’ll find a seat.”
“Great, I’ll be right back.”
Richard departed for the end of the hall, leaving me standing awkwardly in front of the door. I could feel the pit begin to grow again and my leg started to bounce furiously.
Why did I say yes? Why did I say yes? Why did I say yes? Why did I say yes?
I’m in too deep now to back out, all I can do is go through the motions. It’s just motions. Just another step. One more breath. That’s all I have to do.
I stepped into the room, keeping my head lowered the entire time. There were three other people in the room, chatting idly with one another. Two Humans were chatting together, only briefly pausing to glance at me before starting right back up. The Venlil looked up from his phone and patted the seat next to himself, inviting me to sit next to him.
I sighed internally and made my way over, not wanting to set myself apart as the outcast. The Venlil watched me sit and only started talking when I was settled in. “Hi, I’m Tunek.”
I gave him a short nod, looked away, and realized I was supposed to give my own name. “I-I’m Billy.”
Tunek watched my hand for a moment, before leaning back in his chair. “So, is this your first time being at one of these?”
I nodded quickly. “Yes. I’m only here because of a friend.”
Tunek nodded. “Hey, as long as it gets you here. Just taking the first step is all it takes to start the journey. I stole that from Dick, but don’t tell him I said that.”
I nodded. “Sure.”
Tunek tilted his head in concern and moved to respond, but Richard returned just before he could speak. “Alright, I’m back with the waters and the snacks, why don’t we all grab one before we start?”
Everyone but me left their spot to grab something from the cooler that Richard brought back. The two Humans returned to their seats with some water and a cereal bar each, but Tunek hesitated when he started to return. He took a step, paused when he saw me, and turned back to grab another water and snack bar. He must have been hungry.
I looked down at myself as he walked back. Even if I was hungry, I didn’t deserve something to eat. My suffering was my punishment for what I had done and what I had failed to do. I don’t know why I’m here, I don’t deserve to get better. I’m just dirt, I should just-
“Here you go.”
I looked up to see Tunek handing me a bottle of water and a piece of fruit leather. Tentatively, I reached out and grabbed them. “How’d you know I was hungry?”
Tunek shrugged. “A hunch. It’s a little early for dinner and a bit after lunch and I figured I would be peckish around this time so you might be as well.”
I set the water bottle to the side and peeled open the fruit leather. “Thanks…”
“No problem.”
Richard took a sip of his water as I took my first bite, setting the bottle aside as he began to speak. “Alighty, now that everyone has something to keep them awake, I can start talking. As you might have noticed, we have a new member joining us today. So why don’t we all introduce ourselves? John, do you want to start with a name and a little about yourself?”
The man with short, brown-blonde hair sat up straight. “Sure, I’ll get this started. I’m John, I served the UN for four years before we made first contact, but only served for one after. I’m an only father, but I like to think that my wife is looking down from heaven trying to guide me. However, with how old Rachel is, it feels less like guiding and more strength-giving. Oh, and I hate the taste of lemons. I think that’s about it.”
The mention of lemons caused my stomach to tie itself in a knot. James always hated the taste of lemons. Just another reminder of how useless I am.
The man to the left of John smiled. “I guess it’s my turn. My name is Carter. I served the UN for three years until I was discharged for repeated disorderly conduct. I was in a bad spot for a while, but with the help of Dick here I got out of it. Well, start getting out of it. I still have some… flare-ups, but that’s why I’m here.”
Carter smiled, but it was sad. Tunek let him have his moment of silence, encouraging the veteran to be with his emotions for a moment, before starting his own introduction. “Well, I guess you already know my name, but for the sake of completion, I’ll say it again. I’m Tunek. I served the Venlil Space Force for around one Earth year before first contact, where I served with the UN until the conflict with the Yulpa on Grenelka. I… well… after that I couldn’t serve anymore. Something else… I’ve always wanted to learn how to play an instrument properly, but never had the drive to do it. That’s about it for me. Dick, since you were so kind to leave yourself for last, I think it’s your turn.”
Richard chuckled. “Yeah, I guess it is. Well, like I said earlier, my name is Richard, but don’t be afraid to call me Dick. I come from a military family and have always known the dangers of signing up, but that didn’t stop me. I didn’t realize that the war was affecting me until Milieu. Then and there I knew what needed to be done. Once the war was over, I went straight to work creating this.”
Richard paused for a moment to catch his breath. ”I knew that therapists were going to be swamped and many veterans were going to be left behind, so I took what little experience and knowledge I had with my military family and used it to help as many as I could. So now I meet with tons of veterans throughout the week to help them adjust to civilian life and overcome their internal struggles. I’m glad that you have joined us today and hope that we give a good first impression.”
I wasn’t ready for him to stop talking and scrambled to get my words out. “Y-yeah. So far everyone seems nice.”
“Well, if it’s good for you then it’s good for me. With that all out of the way, why don’t we jump right in? I’m not the type to beat around the bush. Let’s start with a simple recap of the week. How have you all been this last week? Any wins, losses, jumps, or setbacks? Remember, there’s no judgment here. We are all suffering together, but we heal together as well.”
The room was silent for a moment, everyone looking for someone else to start the chain, before Carter spoke up. “I guess I’ll go first, if you’ll let me.”
Richard sat down. “Of course Carter, whenever you are ready.”
Carter nodded and propped himself up on his elbows. “I, uh… I had another meltdown, on Wednesday. It came out of nowhere. Happened in the middle of the supermarket, I thought I was… I managed to make it home in time before it really started, but just barely. I was hardly in my room before I started bawling. I… I feel so alone sometimes. I can be in the middle of the supermarket and feel like I’ve been stranded on an island alone f-for years. I m-miss them so much. Y-you all have made it easier, but sometimes… Sometimes it’s too much.”
John placed a hand on Carter’s back and Richard offered a concerned look. “If you ever feel like that, feel free to call me.”
Carter sniffled and wiped away a forming tear. “I know, I know. You’ve told me before, and I almost did, but I thought that you wouldn’t need me bothering you in the middle of the day.”
“Carter, you know I would drop anything to come to your help. Only me dying could stop me.”
Carter leaned back in his chair and laughed even as he wiped away another tear. “Thank you, Dick, but please don’t go dying. You’re too nice for that.”
Richard smiled. “I don’t plan on it anytime soon, Carter. I still have so many more people to help.”
After a moment of silence, John took the initiative and started his own story. “I had a pretty big win this last week. I finally made it through a whole week without having suicidal thoughts.”
Richard smiled widely. “That's wonderful! I told you that you were making progress.”
“I know, but sometimes I feel like I have no purpose anymore. It’s overwhelming. My daughter is old enough to care for herself, I’m only working a menial labor job, I can’t find any hobbies to enjoy… I feel like nothing.”
“But you aren’t ‘nothing,’ you are you. And there is only one of you. I can’t go out and find another John, or another Carter, or Tunek, or Billy. You are all unique, and losing you would be a tragedy.”
Before I could stop myself, I spoke. “Am I really worth saving?”
Everyone went silent for a moment, caught off guard by my words. After Richard deciphered the sudden question, he gave a response with absolute certainty. “Absolutely. There is nothing in this world that can’t be forgiven or overcome.”
“Are you sure? After the things I’ve done… forget I said anything.”
Richard shook his head. “I can’t do that, Billy. I can’t willingly ignore someone in need.”
“I don’t need help. I’m getting exactly what I deserve for what I have done.”
“And what have you done?”
“I… I don’t want to talk about it.”
Richard sighed. “That’s okay, for now. Eventually, you will have to come to terms with it, but for now, you can just listen if you want to.”
“Yeah. I think I’m just going to listen.”
I leaned back and crossed my arms, letting Tunek speak his mind. “I think I know what you are going through. Not the specifics, but I think I can get a general idea.”
“No, I don’t think you do.”
Tunek was silent for a moment, before looking away from me and speaking. “I was on the Cradle when it fell, and on Sillis when the Arxur raided it, and on Milieu fighting off the Kolshians. I tried to save as many people as I could, but in the end, I could only make their passing less painful. I couldn’t even save my partner. I froze in the moment. I could have saved him. But I was frozen in fear. His death is entirely on my shoulders. I’m still fighting that to this day.”
I stared at Tunek for a second, before turning away and sighing. They didn’t know what I was going through, no one could. They didn’t know my crimes, if they did they would kick me out. Their problems, no matter how real, were nothing compared to mine. They still could be helped, I couldn’t.
Could I? If all these people could heal, why couldn’t I?
Because my crimes are too severe.
I… yeah…
2024.05.21 14:55 snaerr Should I keep on dating this guy?
I (32M) have been seeing this guy (26M) since February. We both go to this combat sports gym, he saw me there and shot me a message on grindr the next day. I met him at his place to hookup then we talked a lot naked in the bed and I felt a nice connection I don't often feel. We hooked up again a few days later and since I still felt a nice vibe I asked him out the next weekend. He said he would probably be busy studying (he's a med student) and didn't suggest another time, which made me feel rejected and since my friends told me I was coming on too strong I just dropped the ball and let him be.
A week later he texted me to chat a bit. Then he suggested to meet again to fuck and that's how we became regular fuck buddies (which I'm fine with, I haven't been actively looking to date).
Over the next couple of months he started to warm up, texting me regularly to ask about my days and tell me about his, and our meetings felt more and more intimate. One night, I told him it felt like we were going beyond just fuck buddies and that we should either take a step back and just fuck or we should move forward and date. He told me he had been thinking about it too and he agreed to date.
We've now been dating for the past month and it's going well. I like him, he's ticking a lot of boxes and I feel like he likes me.
When we're together, everything's fine: he's kind, interested and very cuddly. But the problem is that I feel like this dating phase is very unbalanced cause I'm the one instigating our meetings nearly 100% of the time.
I've been cooking dinner for us at my place, offered to watch movies together, I've taken him to restaurants, stuff like that, but he has never asked me out on a date. Granted, he's a med student so busy studying and working a lot, but I feel as if I'm the one who's exclusively pursuing him. And I know it's a bit unfair to say that cause he's reaching out to me regularly and sends me pics of him and keeping me in touch and stuff so it's not as if he's completely passive, but I just miss being pursued lol I feel like he's taking me for granted or something, at least I feel like he's not trying to seduce me and it makes me feel frustrated.
Do you think it's a sign that he's just not that interested and has never been? Should I settle for a guy that I vibe with although I don't feel pursued or seduced? I don't really know how to navigate this
submitted by snaerr to dating_advice [link] [comments]
A week later he texted me to chat a bit. Then he suggested to meet again to fuck and that's how we became regular fuck buddies (which I'm fine with, I haven't been actively looking to date).
Over the next couple of months he started to warm up, texting me regularly to ask about my days and tell me about his, and our meetings felt more and more intimate. One night, I told him it felt like we were going beyond just fuck buddies and that we should either take a step back and just fuck or we should move forward and date. He told me he had been thinking about it too and he agreed to date.
We've now been dating for the past month and it's going well. I like him, he's ticking a lot of boxes and I feel like he likes me.
When we're together, everything's fine: he's kind, interested and very cuddly. But the problem is that I feel like this dating phase is very unbalanced cause I'm the one instigating our meetings nearly 100% of the time.
I've been cooking dinner for us at my place, offered to watch movies together, I've taken him to restaurants, stuff like that, but he has never asked me out on a date. Granted, he's a med student so busy studying and working a lot, but I feel as if I'm the one who's exclusively pursuing him. And I know it's a bit unfair to say that cause he's reaching out to me regularly and sends me pics of him and keeping me in touch and stuff so it's not as if he's completely passive, but I just miss being pursued lol I feel like he's taking me for granted or something, at least I feel like he's not trying to seduce me and it makes me feel frustrated.
Do you think it's a sign that he's just not that interested and has never been? Should I settle for a guy that I vibe with although I don't feel pursued or seduced? I don't really know how to navigate this
2024.05.21 14:45 ViperiousTheRedPanda Just finished my first complete playthrough of all games, but why does Andromeda feel like 3 games in one?
So before these last couple weeks, I had only ever played ME2, with my disk copy of ME1 being broken so the game would crash when arriving at the Citadel for the first time. But after playing Andromeda, I couldn't help feeling after 60 hours and 96% completion, that I just played 3 different games.
Let me explain.
The first game was personally my favourite. Arriving at Habitat 07, finding the Nexus in it's unfinished state, arriving at EOS and exploring the failed outposts and experiencing a limited progression until you progress the planet's story further. I loved how the wider world was cut off by high radiation that kept my exploration limited to a managable amount initially. I loved how once I set up the colony, I got to decide what type of colony it was (I picked Military for obvious reasons), and even got an awesome cutscene of the prefabs and shuttles landing on the planet. I loved how soon after fixing the vault, things started to improve, more of the map opened up, SAM gave me a run down of what was now available and the environment seemed to change visually.
This set up my assumptions for the rest of game quite high and I was all for it. However, things quickly changed after going to the second habitable planent. Aya.
Suddenly I've been thrown onto a small accessible hub area with no planetary exploration, and instead been presented with fish lipped, bug eyed, wannabe Twi'leks. I am no longer in my explore, adapt, overcome mind set and I'm suddenly brought into a "Gotta make these new aliens like me unlike the other group of aliens" mind set. This is in itself isn't terrible as it varies the gameplay and the story, however the game NEVER returns to the previous experience that I was greatly looking forward to, but I pressed onwards with the hope that my EOS experience would continue.
I was wrong.
More systems were now made accessible (Despite the Nexus saying that their probes only reached as far as Aya's system), so naturally I checked, did the repetetive task of going from planet to planet with a roughly 20% payout of either 270xp or a mineral vein visable from space that gives less than a single mineral node you find planetside, and then proceeded to Havarl. My hopes remained high as the map appeared small and the Nomad wasn't usable, and 2 of the 3 remnant towers were already activated, massively bringing down the amount of busy work I had to do. I didn't consider this as a planet to colonize and instead treated it like a large hub area with a few story progression quests, like finding our lovable gay Turian spectre Avitus and getting the first clues as to the status of the other 3 Arks. I did the Vault, established a research outpost with the Angaran's and was satisfied.
Then I moved onto Vauld.
Up to this point and a little more, I had believed that my EOS experience would return now that I had Aya and Havarl out of the way. When I landed on Vauld, I loved the atmosphere. It was dark, cold and clearly had something for me to achieve. My first thought while walking through the snow (aside from wondering why there was a pilot telling me he was ready to assault the enemy stronghold once I gave the go ahead), was "Wow, I can't wait to see how things change once the vault is active, I bet the ice is going to melt gradually and you'll see the ground underneath". Suffice to say my Vauld experience peaked after leaving the resistance base, approaching the 2 Angaran's standing outside and looked down at the large open area for me to explore. And with my hopes still high, explore I did. However this was the first major sign that things had changed.
There was no longer locked progression, waiting for me to restore the vault (Unlike EOS which had lvl 1 and lvl 3, Valud only had lvl 1 and lvl 2 which only stifled exploration but didn't directly prevent it). There was no awesome cutscene or meaningful choice once I established my outpost. There was no visual change except for somewhat clear skies, and I really had no reason to come back to the planet afterwards except to complete quests I was too lazy to do straight away, or continue missions that brought me back. At this point it was clear that my assumptions of the game were incorrect and the experience I enjoyed from EOS would not be returning.
Then we moved onto Kadara, the planet I hate the most. I landed into another hub area, again with no accessible exploration area, but unlike Aya, this planet had one that was separated by a loading screen. Sloane was a bitch and I questioned how the Angara here had been mingling with the Milky Way exiles for the last 14 months, yet our landing on Aya was apparently first contact with the Angaran's who were already associated with our lovable rogue.
Again, planet exploration disapointed me, except this time there was even less than Vauld. Now the only environmental hazard was sulfur water which was practically an insta kill if you so much as touched the water with your toe. I did the usual, went to every forward base, collected every mission and task, completed the story progression and then resolved the conflict that would allow me to get an outpost down. And despite Vauld giving me little reason to return after, Kadara gave me even less! With the only reason to return being follow ups of other missions and loyalty missions. But hey at least the water no longer kills you. I guess that's "progression".
And to my dissapointment, Havarl was actually considered an Outpost/Colony, meaning the last place I had to go to was Elaaden. The second Desert planet (Though this one is hot instead of radioactive), the home of the exiled Krogans, and another planet where the Angaran have an established presence and have been in contact with the exiles for 14 months with Ryder being first contact 14 months later. Though I was just glad to finally find out where Drak had apparently come from ever since he mentioned moving with his clan after leaving the Nexus and being found on EOS, despite his clan being firmly established in Elaaden.
Like Vauld and Kadara. I drove around without any temporary limitation. Got the forward bases. Collected the quests and met the bitch in charge (In Elaaden there are actually 2 bitches in charges, though only 1 of which you can actually get rid of and replace). I did the story progression, resolved the local problems, watched an epic battle between 2 Krogan that I had absolutely no influence over (Couldn't even decide who to put incharge of New Tachanka like I could do with Kadara port), and just as quickly as I arrived at Elaaden, I had left. Leaving the Arks and Meridian to resolve.
Resolving the arks were a little dissapointing. I had hoped to recover the Arks, expand options for colonization, gain more quests and give me more reason to explore. Instead all I ended up with was 2 functional arks. A loss of about 25% of the Turians, Asarians and Salarians that came to Andromeda and not a single original Path Finder on the Nexus. And despite in game dialogue mentioning that the retrieval of the Arks had allowed for construction to continue on the Nexus, there was no visual changes of the Nexus which remained in the same half built state since the start of the game (When I saw Nexus levels, I had incorrectly believed that each time the level increased, the Nexus would gradually be completed).
And then there was Meridian, which was actually a Remnant space station/city that you needed to bring back online. At this point it was felt like the 3rd game had come into effect. While the first game had great exploration and colonization, while the 2nd game felt like a more tedius version of ME1 with less meaningful choices and plot, and more filler. And now we've moved onto the 3rd game, which is a massively rushed attempt at "ending" the game and giving some minor rewards/punishments for choices you've made through the mid game and the end boss fight being a partial Architect fight filled with many remnant forces, which follows a "warthog run" populazised by the final mission of Halo Combat Evolved.
There is nothing reflective of the rest of the game in the final missions, and after the final mission, the epilogue sets up or leaves unanswered questions that would have/should have been answered in DLC or a Sequal.
These being:
Qaurian Ark (Probably chased by 1 or more Reapers that escaped by the Crucible destroying everything)
Removing the Scourge (Implied that it could be removed in Meridian, but then never brought up again)
Uncovering the Benefactor (Likely The Elusive Man or The Shadow Broker (Could be Liara or the previous one))
Turning outposts into Colonies
Construction of Port Meridian
Fixing Ryder - 01 (Previously Habitat 07)
The Ancient AI (Disapears after the Hyperion gets stolen)
Waking Ryder's mother
Restoring Communication with the Milky Way (They questioned why communication wasn't open after setting the nexus up)
Connecting the Engine (Meridian) to the Remnant City and activating all Vaults remotely
Primus informing the Kett Empire about what's happened in the Heleus cluster
And probably a few other smaller that I can't recall at this time.
So there it is. Why does the game feel like 3 different games in 1 package? Why did the game peak at EOS and then slowly decline for the rest of the game?
I look forward to discussions in the comments.
submitted by ViperiousTheRedPanda to masseffect [link] [comments]
Let me explain.
The first game was personally my favourite. Arriving at Habitat 07, finding the Nexus in it's unfinished state, arriving at EOS and exploring the failed outposts and experiencing a limited progression until you progress the planet's story further. I loved how the wider world was cut off by high radiation that kept my exploration limited to a managable amount initially. I loved how once I set up the colony, I got to decide what type of colony it was (I picked Military for obvious reasons), and even got an awesome cutscene of the prefabs and shuttles landing on the planet. I loved how soon after fixing the vault, things started to improve, more of the map opened up, SAM gave me a run down of what was now available and the environment seemed to change visually.
This set up my assumptions for the rest of game quite high and I was all for it. However, things quickly changed after going to the second habitable planent. Aya.
Suddenly I've been thrown onto a small accessible hub area with no planetary exploration, and instead been presented with fish lipped, bug eyed, wannabe Twi'leks. I am no longer in my explore, adapt, overcome mind set and I'm suddenly brought into a "Gotta make these new aliens like me unlike the other group of aliens" mind set. This is in itself isn't terrible as it varies the gameplay and the story, however the game NEVER returns to the previous experience that I was greatly looking forward to, but I pressed onwards with the hope that my EOS experience would continue.
I was wrong.
More systems were now made accessible (Despite the Nexus saying that their probes only reached as far as Aya's system), so naturally I checked, did the repetetive task of going from planet to planet with a roughly 20% payout of either 270xp or a mineral vein visable from space that gives less than a single mineral node you find planetside, and then proceeded to Havarl. My hopes remained high as the map appeared small and the Nomad wasn't usable, and 2 of the 3 remnant towers were already activated, massively bringing down the amount of busy work I had to do. I didn't consider this as a planet to colonize and instead treated it like a large hub area with a few story progression quests, like finding our lovable gay Turian spectre Avitus and getting the first clues as to the status of the other 3 Arks. I did the Vault, established a research outpost with the Angaran's and was satisfied.
Then I moved onto Vauld.
Up to this point and a little more, I had believed that my EOS experience would return now that I had Aya and Havarl out of the way. When I landed on Vauld, I loved the atmosphere. It was dark, cold and clearly had something for me to achieve. My first thought while walking through the snow (aside from wondering why there was a pilot telling me he was ready to assault the enemy stronghold once I gave the go ahead), was "Wow, I can't wait to see how things change once the vault is active, I bet the ice is going to melt gradually and you'll see the ground underneath". Suffice to say my Vauld experience peaked after leaving the resistance base, approaching the 2 Angaran's standing outside and looked down at the large open area for me to explore. And with my hopes still high, explore I did. However this was the first major sign that things had changed.
There was no longer locked progression, waiting for me to restore the vault (Unlike EOS which had lvl 1 and lvl 3, Valud only had lvl 1 and lvl 2 which only stifled exploration but didn't directly prevent it). There was no awesome cutscene or meaningful choice once I established my outpost. There was no visual change except for somewhat clear skies, and I really had no reason to come back to the planet afterwards except to complete quests I was too lazy to do straight away, or continue missions that brought me back. At this point it was clear that my assumptions of the game were incorrect and the experience I enjoyed from EOS would not be returning.
Then we moved onto Kadara, the planet I hate the most. I landed into another hub area, again with no accessible exploration area, but unlike Aya, this planet had one that was separated by a loading screen. Sloane was a bitch and I questioned how the Angara here had been mingling with the Milky Way exiles for the last 14 months, yet our landing on Aya was apparently first contact with the Angaran's who were already associated with our lovable rogue.
Again, planet exploration disapointed me, except this time there was even less than Vauld. Now the only environmental hazard was sulfur water which was practically an insta kill if you so much as touched the water with your toe. I did the usual, went to every forward base, collected every mission and task, completed the story progression and then resolved the conflict that would allow me to get an outpost down. And despite Vauld giving me little reason to return after, Kadara gave me even less! With the only reason to return being follow ups of other missions and loyalty missions. But hey at least the water no longer kills you. I guess that's "progression".
And to my dissapointment, Havarl was actually considered an Outpost/Colony, meaning the last place I had to go to was Elaaden. The second Desert planet (Though this one is hot instead of radioactive), the home of the exiled Krogans, and another planet where the Angaran have an established presence and have been in contact with the exiles for 14 months with Ryder being first contact 14 months later. Though I was just glad to finally find out where Drak had apparently come from ever since he mentioned moving with his clan after leaving the Nexus and being found on EOS, despite his clan being firmly established in Elaaden.
Like Vauld and Kadara. I drove around without any temporary limitation. Got the forward bases. Collected the quests and met the bitch in charge (In Elaaden there are actually 2 bitches in charges, though only 1 of which you can actually get rid of and replace). I did the story progression, resolved the local problems, watched an epic battle between 2 Krogan that I had absolutely no influence over (Couldn't even decide who to put incharge of New Tachanka like I could do with Kadara port), and just as quickly as I arrived at Elaaden, I had left. Leaving the Arks and Meridian to resolve.
Resolving the arks were a little dissapointing. I had hoped to recover the Arks, expand options for colonization, gain more quests and give me more reason to explore. Instead all I ended up with was 2 functional arks. A loss of about 25% of the Turians, Asarians and Salarians that came to Andromeda and not a single original Path Finder on the Nexus. And despite in game dialogue mentioning that the retrieval of the Arks had allowed for construction to continue on the Nexus, there was no visual changes of the Nexus which remained in the same half built state since the start of the game (When I saw Nexus levels, I had incorrectly believed that each time the level increased, the Nexus would gradually be completed).
And then there was Meridian, which was actually a Remnant space station/city that you needed to bring back online. At this point it was felt like the 3rd game had come into effect. While the first game had great exploration and colonization, while the 2nd game felt like a more tedius version of ME1 with less meaningful choices and plot, and more filler. And now we've moved onto the 3rd game, which is a massively rushed attempt at "ending" the game and giving some minor rewards/punishments for choices you've made through the mid game and the end boss fight being a partial Architect fight filled with many remnant forces, which follows a "warthog run" populazised by the final mission of Halo Combat Evolved.
There is nothing reflective of the rest of the game in the final missions, and after the final mission, the epilogue sets up or leaves unanswered questions that would have/should have been answered in DLC or a Sequal.
These being:
Qaurian Ark (Probably chased by 1 or more Reapers that escaped by the Crucible destroying everything)
Removing the Scourge (Implied that it could be removed in Meridian, but then never brought up again)
Uncovering the Benefactor (Likely The Elusive Man or The Shadow Broker (Could be Liara or the previous one))
Turning outposts into Colonies
Construction of Port Meridian
Fixing Ryder - 01 (Previously Habitat 07)
The Ancient AI (Disapears after the Hyperion gets stolen)
Waking Ryder's mother
Restoring Communication with the Milky Way (They questioned why communication wasn't open after setting the nexus up)
Connecting the Engine (Meridian) to the Remnant City and activating all Vaults remotely
Primus informing the Kett Empire about what's happened in the Heleus cluster
And probably a few other smaller that I can't recall at this time.
So there it is. Why does the game feel like 3 different games in 1 package? Why did the game peak at EOS and then slowly decline for the rest of the game?
I look forward to discussions in the comments.
2024.05.21 14:42 Professional-Map-762 Let's Analyze the Inmendham vs Vegan Gains Debate: whether Value-realism is True (How 2 best argue defending it, going forward?)
How can we stop going around in circles with these corrupted nihilists? (basically an extreme religious-nut but in reverse; no meaning, no value, no good/bad, nothing matters) I've compiled some of my thoughts/comments.
But first If you are not caught up yet:1 Re: Vegan Gains ...The Militant Vegan Raffaela Interview - (May 12, 2024)
2 Vegan Gains is a sub-Jerkivest [5/11/24]
3 Moral Realism Debate w/ Inmendham - (May 16, 2024)
4 WTF #899: The vegan gains debate ... Value realism - (May 19, 2024)
5 Vegan Gains ...Denialism is the only nihilism [5/19/24]
also saw this Controversial Topics with Vegan Gains (Horse Riding, Bivalves, Depression, and much more!) - (May 11, 2024) (he thinks in terms of some dogmatic religious brain-rot morality source of right/wrong, but a kind of reversed/opposite conclusion of it's absence, nihilism)
the very reason religion was invented in the first place was because humans by nature had a value-engine driving them & NEED for meaning, that's the irony. value gave rise to religion, religion never needed to grant value. The fact people can't grasp this. 🤦
Now onto the various arguments, sorry how long and out of order it is But the idea is to provoke you coming up with better ideas/arguments, and if you can critic and strenghen my and ultimately inmendham's arguments. The GOAL should be to Create a formal argument AKA a syllogism, modus ponens. Something clear and concise that can't be taken out of context or misinterpreted, as happened with the debate...
it is not necessary to call TRUE/REAL right or wrong Objective, because if objective is defined as mind-independent than without minds there's nothing right/wrong to happen to, therefore THE discussion should be just regarding what is TRUE or NOT, subjective doesn't necessarily mean mere contrived opinion or preference but can be logical conclusion, e.g. you can conclude 2 + 2 = 4 as we understand these concepts of numbers to model reality but can you call it objective or mind-independent 2 + 2 = 4, or that math exists? Not really. As you require a modeler to model reality, an observer to make the observation, a mind to come to such accurate conclusions. To me, claiming there is no real right or wrong is akin to asserting that moral standards and ultimately the subject of Ethics is as fictitious as religion or Santa Claus, you just believe it cause you want to or have preference to. Why maintain this pretense if it's all a mere fabrication / contrivance?
Regarding subjective judgments such as determining "What's the tastiest potato chip or the most beautiful painting?", these are not factual assessments about the things themselves, The question itself is misleading, because the thing itself has none of those qualities objectively, Instead, such qualities are OUTPUTs generated by the interaction of our bodies and minds with these INPUT items, the input is quite arbitrary/irrelevant, unlike the highly meaningful & distinct output generated of positive or negative experiences. You might get off more on certain female body part than another, it doesn't matter, the output positives & negatives is more or less same among individuals and that's what's relevant... not what specific fun or hobby gets you or them off or pushes their buttons.
It can be TRUE that a certain food item is the tastiest to that personal individual, or gross to another, and we can talk about intersubjective truths with averages overall. But one's experience of what is tastiest for them doesn't contradict another's, they can both be true for them individually, as you are likely not even sharing the same exact experiences to judge differently. And one's very perception or framing of the experience changes the experience itself, no way around this truth. Some people find bricks tasty or edible, just how their brain is wired.
It's important to recognize that differing opinions of personal taste do not inherently conflict in the way ethical contradictions do. With ethical matters, asserting that two diametrically opposed views are equally valid is problematic, either one is right and the other wrong, or both might be based on flawed reasoning. Pretending 2 opposing ethical views can be both equally right/true/correct is utter contradictory mush, either one of them must be right / wrong, or both are contrived meaningless nothing opinions, just made up. you wouldn't say whether one believes in god or not IS mere personal opinion/preference and such 2 opposing views can be equally right at same time, that's utter contradictory nonsense, by saying 2 opinions that gRAPE is both good & bad at same time are equally right opinons, right loses all meaning and you might as well say neither is right and both are wrong, they each have their own contrived fairytale delusion.
Now with Ethics of right / wrong, it does not depend on one single individual's preference or opinion, but taken as the whole, if you violate one without consent you still have to account for that since you are seemingly putting the weight on the preference otherwise preferences are utterly meaningless and irrelevant.
ALSO, Do you call whatever you prefer what's right, or do you prefer to try to do what is right?
Do you prefer to seek out what is the right most accurate conclusion given all the facts of reality, or contrive right to be what's in your preference/interest or personal gain?
Here's a silly question by nihilists: "why is suffering bad?"
Response: How do you identify suffering? Based on the fact that it feels bad. (Yes subjectively) Just as we can subjectively understand 2+2 = 4
Or this: "prove suffering bad, objectively"
Also question-begging, obviously it is subjective. If such badness cannot exist mind-independently by definition.
"Prove suffering is bad, objectively"
is begging the question, because...
It strawmans / assumes the badness must be bad mind-independently, it isn't therefore, it isn't bad.
Answer this, evolutionarily do animals PERCEIVE being tortured skinned alive nail in the eye as BAD, or does it impose torture which we RECOGNIZE and define as Bad by definition?
If true PAIN/torture isn't bad then why does it exist evolutionarily? Answer: (problem -> solution) mechanism which functions as ability to learn & improved survival, this mechanism was reinforced over time as it worked.
inmendham & realists like myself argue: it is the case Descriptively, Objectively evolution IMPOSED Prescriptive-value-judgements onto animals which function as a learning/problem solving mechanism. Fact is, the invention of 'PROBLEM' is something I/we/animals had nothing to do with... (no-free-will-choice) but are simply byproduct in observation of this fact.
If real PROBLEM(s) didn't truly exist then Arguably the word and conceptual understanding it points 👉 to wouldn't exist either. As if beings could be truly blind never seeing colors/vision yet pulling the idea out of thin air and conceiving of such a thing, how preposterous, that'd be giving human creativity/imagination way too much credit. The only nihilist argument then is that by evolution we & all feeling organisms are somehow ultimately deluded or have illusion of problem where there is none, which I find deeply implausible. Run the torture study/experiment a million times putting people's arm in the fire "yep still bad". Filtering out people who lack ability to feel pain of course.
As evolutionary biologists even states pain is a message to the animal "don't do that again". Can't get descriptively prescriptive more than that.
Are You Getting It?
The Ought is literally baked in as an IS. The is-ought gap to be bridged is a complete Red-Herring, yes you can't derive an Ought from an IS, because if you oughtn't do something, then it can never be BAD... problematic/BAD/torture can't mean anything if it doesn't scream OUGHT-not.
All you have to agree to is due to evolution it created torture which is decidedly negative/ inherently BAD, by definition. Otherwise it wouldn't feel bad or be torturous at all... THEN ask yourself, how can something be BAD yet it's not BAD to create that BAD?
This is Checkmate. These are irrefutable Facts & Logical deductions.
So much for it all being false-perception, the very fact placebo patients perceive an otherwise harmless laser as BAD/painful makes it so. It's the TRUE reality in their mind and you can't deny that fact. It's also a fact believing a pain isn't really all that bad can make it so, but this doesn't make these value-laden experiences NOT real/true.
As per evolution, your body/brain's mechanisms must generate & impose a prescriptive-value-judgement / problematic event within your mind,
It's nagging, complaining, telling you keeping your hand on the hot stove is a mistake/problematic/bad. (not in itself but as a consequence)
I believe this brain making me write all this... is making an accurate assessment when it observe certain events to be problematic/bad where it's happening which is within subjectivity, where's your evidence my perceptions are fooling me or I'm somehow deluded? I witnessed the crime take place and you were nowhere near the crime scene yet you have the authority to claim otherwise as fact? (You are not simply agnostic to my problem suffering but a De-nihilist)
Once one accepts this evolutionary fact we can move on to more complicated questions regarding ethics, like how do weigh the good & the bad, conflicting preferences, etc. Otherwise, it's all pointless & futile, like arguing bivalves or wild-suffering with a non-vegan. They're just not on that level yet and it's a waste of time.
There is no 'moral truth,' especially not an objective one. If critics pigeonhole realists into defending such notions, it becomes easy to refute them. My interest lies in ethics and whether value/problematic events exist.
Consider this question by nihilists: "Why is suffering bad?"
Response: Suffering is identified because it feels bad, subjectively. Just as we subjectively understand 2+2=4, we can recognize suffering through its unpleasant experience.
When asked to "prove suffering is bad, objectively," this is question-begging, as the question assumes that the badness must exist independently of minds, which it does not by definition. This question straw-mans the issue by requiring mind-independent badness, ignoring the subjective nature of suffering. As if the quality of it being BAD must be granted by something outside the experience itself.
Evolutionary Perspective: Animals perceive and react to torture (e.g., being skinned alive) as bad because evolution has imposed mechanisms that signal harm. Pain serves as a problem-solving mechanism, reinforcing behaviors that enhance survival. If pain and suffering weren't inherently problematic, they wouldn’t exist in the form they do.
Realists like myself argue that evolution has objectively imposed prescriptive-value judgments on animals. The concept of 'problem' or 'bad' arises from these evolutionary mechanisms, not from free will. The existence of these concepts indicates the reality of these problematic experiences.
If real problems didn’t exist, neither would the concepts describing them. This is akin to how beings blind from birth wouldn’t conceive of color. Suggesting that evolutionary processes have universally deluded all feeling organisms into perceiving problems where there are none is implausible.
As evolutionary biologists state, pain signals to the animal, "don't do that again," which is descriptively prescriptive. The 'ought' is embedded within the 'is.' Thus, the is-ought gap is a red herring because prescriptive judgments are evolutionarily ingrained.
Again, How do you identify suffering? Based on the fact that it feels bad. (Yes subjectively) Just as we can subjectively understand 2+2 = 4
All you have to agree to is due to evolution it created torture which is decidedly negative/ inherently BAD, by definition. Otherwise it wouldn't feel bad or be torturous at all... THEN ask yourself, how can something be BAD yet it's not BAD to create that BAD?
Conclusion: By acknowledging that evolution created inherently negative experiences like torture, we accept that these experiences are bad by definition. Denying the badness of creating bad experiences is contradictory. Therefore, once recognizing the true reality of subjective experiences, only then we can move on to complex ethical questions about weighing good and bad and addressing conflicting preferences.
There's no goal to prefer to know/do what's right, RATHER what's right is whatever matches our personal preferences, so unlike flat earther vs round earth beliefs/CLAIMs which can contradict/conflict with each other since either 1 is right or both are wrong. Individual tastes don't.
Whereas if VG says 9 people gRAPE the 1 kid for fun is WRONG because he's a threshold-deontologist but Also RIGHT to a hedonistic utilitarian, Those views only contradict/conflict if they are making VALUE-claims or recognizing a problematic event take place. However, with VG apparently he would have to say he's not claiming or labelling anything as TRULY problematic at all but merely describing his preferences like flavor of ice cream...
Now, of course, as the realist, I find such a view more deplorable/worse than if they were merely agnostic on right/wrong. Cause it's one thing to say there's a right answer to questions of Ethics but we have no objective scientific basis to determine it yet or lack knowledge VS saying they have knowledge there is absolutely no right or wrong.
Under Anti-realism nihilism, what they mean by wrong/right, is just their preference, if I understand correctly (which I'm quite sure) Anti-realism nihilism reduces the Subject of Ethics down to nothing but you or someone else pontificating/opining (i.e "me no like torture") . It defends some sort of expressivism, emotivism, normative, prescriptive reduction of Ethics. Which I find lubricious and has to be a mistake,
I don't see anyone playing any different game even the nihilists invest their money and plan ahead for self-interest, no one truly signs up for torture for fun like it's no problem, and runs away from pleasure happiness as bad. Further, it stands to reason... since we can recognize objectively evolution created a punishment mechanism to enforce learning and survival, BAD/PROBLEM as a concept is something I/WE/Animals had nothing to do with. We didn't invent it, we recognize it and respond accordingly. Even evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins stated that pain is a message to the organism 'don't do that again!'
We must address further the flawed logic of VG and other nihilists reducing Ethics down to mere arbitrary preferences like potato chip flavor, or how much salt you prefer in the soup. As it is completely disanalogous & dishonest upon reflection. QUOTE: "There's no arguing against Efilism, it's just personal opinion. Like arguing what tastes better... ice-cream or potato chips?"
Say if you believe that the mona-lisa is beautiful, and I personally find it ugly, this conflicts/contradicts nothing because it claims nothing in terms about that object or reality outside of our own minds.
such qualities are OUTPUTs generated by body/mind from these INPUTs, the input is quite arbitrary/irrelevant, unlike the highly meaningful & distinct output generated of positive or negative experiences.
it doesn't matter what specific fun or hobby gets them off or pushes their buttons in order for it MATTER, those differences don't make it any less real OR all mere subjective opinion. the output positives & negatives is more or less same among individuals and that's what's relevant...
It can be TRUE that a certain food item is the tastiest to some personal individual, or gross to another, one's experience of what is tastiest for them doesn't contradict another's, they can both be true for them individually because it is the reality in their mind, Some people find bricks tasty or edible, just how their brain is wired.
while one person may find a certain food delicious, another may find it repulsive, without invalidating each other's experiences because they are true for them individually. both experiences are valid/correct.
However, actions that disregard another's negative experience invalidate their reality. if you find being boiled alive problematic and I do it anyway believing it's ok, I am invalidating your experience as either not real, relevant, doesn't matter, or my preferences are more important (carry more weight) than yours. Or simply believe it's ALL equal or arbitrary and I just prefer to exploit you so I do that.
Positive or negative experiences are largely consistent among people, making them relevant, regardless of the specific stimuli. Individual truths about taste or preference coexist without contradiction, reflecting each person's value-generated reality.
This cannot honestly be applied to one's mere opinion it's fine to boil kids alive, as you are invalidating the fact that it matters to those victims. You saying it doesn't matter or your gain of pleasure outweighs their loss of pain, is a claim about the reality of events going on in their mind, so there is room for conflict/contradiction. They can't both be right/wrong at the exact same time.
A strong non-intuition argument/claim & facts presented render value-nihilism implausible:
It is Descriptively the case, that Evolution IMPOSED Prescriptive-ought statements... of 'PROBLEMATIC sensation/event' on organisms which functioned as a learning mechanism and improved survival.
Therefore, BAD/PROBLEM isn't mere subjective opinion but something I/we/animals had nothing to do with and are mere by-product reacting to an observation.
This is pretty much the only base-axiom needed to ground my own torture as mattering as the original actual value-currency at stake. That paired with the fact I sampled consciousness and know it matters to me whether or not I am tortured, the fact that I personally observe it as problematic makes it the true reality for my own mind...
...AND it's not mere opinion/proclamation / or idea humans creatively invented out of thin air... as if like everyone could be truly blind yet conceptualizing colovision, makes no sense. plus that's giving humanity way too much credit of imagination.
Can't really have thoughts about information that you don't have. The concept of bad/problem arguably wouldn't even exist if it never was so.
One only requires the axiom of a Descriptive Bad to ground Ethics. Why? Because it can be argued that a descriptive statement of BAD/problem is prescriptive by it's very nature in the meaning the of word/language.(otherwise its psuedo-bad/fake langauge, redefines bad as aversion/mere preference against) Otherwise, it can't mean anything to be bad, torturously obnoxious, unwanted experiential events couldn't mean anything. Evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins even state pain is a punishment signal/message to the animal: "Don't do that again!" If those aren't prescriptions imposed, then I don't know what is. The animal doesn't simply decide/prefer to avoid the event and finds it bad, it's told/finds it bad and so prefers to avoid the event/problem. If god or there were some logically or physically possible way it were to be invented how else would it exist?, or what you think evolution's reward & punishment mechanism accomplished? If it didn't synthesize problematic sensations to force organisms to solve?
Evolution prescribes Needs/wants, at the same time imposes a PAIN/PROBLEM of starvation/hunger which by it's very nature is a prescription for solution (i.e. sustenance/relief/comfort.)
By the very nature of "PROBLEM" it prescribes -> "SOLUTION" not merely a contrived or trivial-like on paper math problem, but the origin of why the word even exists: the problem of pain, a true whip/punishment mechanism, real currency to play with, real loss. Idk how you can describe something categorically as a PROBLEM in the true sense of the word if it doesn't come with it a necessary prescription for its solution. Because if there is no NEED for a solution, then it turns into no longer a problem again...
I don't see how it could be any other way because if there's no real game to be playing with value baked into it, then money would be worthless/not even exist, animals wouldn't bother evade standing in the fire, etc.
Saying It is Descriptively the case, that Evolution IMPOSED Prescriptive-ought statements... of 'PROBLEMATIC sensation/event' on organisms which functioned as a learning mechanism and improved survival.
Is the same as saying Evolution IMPOSED torture/BAD, as that's what torture/bad is... a prescribed need for solution to a problem which is some form of relief/comfort.
The prescription arises as a result of accepting step 1. (which nihilists reject/deny) problem solution. The latter does not follow/exist without the former. basic 2+2 = 4 logic. There's no point figuring out the answer to the math equation, if we don't agree first and foremost a problem exists. Nor how to solve a disease, if we don't first and foremost recognize a disease exists. And so, Any debate with nihilists on step 2: of determining what is the most likely solution / right answer becomes irrelevent and a waste of time. Arguing about whether x or y IS the right answer to fixing/preventing diabetes is pointless when they don't even agree the really disease exists. They don't believe an actual real BAD / Problem exists.
VG reduces it down to mere preferences, his reasonings that even if universally sentience prefers not suffebe tortured... Well, just because it is the case descriptively we prefer to avoid suffering doesn't mean we ought/should prevent suffering. He hasn't bridged the IS-OUGHT gap. But he got it backwards,
the claim/argument... ISN'T that because descriptively, sentience universally has a preference to avoid suffering, it is therefore bad,
the claim/argument... IS that it's descriptively bad/problematic, therefore universally there's a deductively logically assigned preference to avoid it,
Again you can't classify/label something as a problem if it's inconsequential whether it is solved or not. The word loses all meaning. If something NEEDs solving/fixing it means there's a problem, if there's a problem it means there's something NEED solving/fixing. Evolution manufactures these needy problems in organisms to manipulate and control them.
Merely what our preferences are IS NOT relevant, preference "frustration" arguably IS. (if preferences couldn't be frustrated "i.e., no value" than it wouldn't matter which way things turned out)
You can have a preference for some art style over another, if we were just programmed non-feeling robots that preferred to avoid standing in the fire, but there was no real kernel of value/bad, then it wouldn't matter.
Let's imagine something was Objectively PROBLEMATIC, an IS statement. What would a real problem look like? something in NEED of a solution. Again, why? because If it doesn't matter whether or not it exists or is Solved or not, it could never be a problem in the first place. So either this problem exists or it doesn't. (NOTE: it doesn't need to be an objective problem to be REAL, "i.e mind-independent")
Next, if ASI or sentient beings were to sample this "problem", would it not be the case they would logically deduce it's in need of a solution? And assign their preferences accordingly to solving it? Cause again otherwise then you just see it as "no-problemo" again.
What is being argued: the positive or negative mind-dependent event produced in response to the sensual or perceptual stimuli, the input (object) is irrelevant, only the output (experience) matters and what the value-engine (BRAIN) produced. What pushes your buttons so to speak, blue jelly beans or green jelly beans, could differ between 2 individuals but the shared experience is the same more or less. Whether you wired to find pineapple on pizza tasty or gross is irrelevant, some people find bricks edible.
Main issue is they talking past each other: what inmendham is arguing for was either not expressed as best it could be, and/or VG does not quite comprehend what is being argued... inmendham claims/argues evolution created the real bad/PROBLEM and we respond in recognition of this fact/truth with preferences that follow accordingly, Logic cannot be escaped, once you know 2+2 = 4, you can't will or believe it to be 79. If you know the right answer "torture be Bad M'kay?" obviously you won't act or behave otherwise and say you love it. What could it mean to have a preference against experiencing torture... does such a statement even make any sense? All that is required is a real BAD to exist... and then the preference to avoid it logically follows, an inescapable truth. Unless he thinks I also choose or prefer to believe 2+2 = 4 ?
Essentially VG keeps counter-arguing that: "yes we want to avoid torture, but that's just your preference... just cause universally sentience has a preference against torture (a Descriptive / IS statement) doesn't logically follow some Normative/Prescriptive claim/statement. That just because something IS the case it doesn't follow that we OUGHT / should do X, like help others, prevent suffering, etc. That's a non-sequitur he says. Ultimately it's just a preference." sure but...
His argument only applies/counters a strawman position in his head: Because of this I and other realists can account for / side-step it completely, we aren't attempting to derive an OUGHT from an IS. e.g strawman: "we ALL have preference against torture, Therefore it's BAD." Or "we ALL have preference against torture, Therefore we OUGHT prevent it"
The actual argument is that it's Truly Bad/Problematic by the very nature of the word, Therefore first-hand observation follows universally a deductively logically assigned preference to avoid it. Not the other way around.
"If the only thing that can have meaning in the universe is the experience of a sentient being, ought we not maximize its value just by nature of its experience being the only thing that can matter?" yes the ought is a further logical extension of recognizing it to be a problem, which denotes/demands a solution, otherwise if it doesn't matter to solve it or not then you've turned it into a non-problem again. So it can only be categorically one or the other.
Issue of semantics, different terminology and definitions: as long as VG defines objective as "mind-independent" and sets the goal-post to the realist to find a mind-independent "wrong/bad" as if somehow we need some divine-command or absolute rule in the universe that declares it so... then there is no fruit to the discussion. suffering/bad takes place in the mind/experience, so of course it's unfair to ask one to present a mind-independent suffering/bad in the universe, it is begging the question. To be fair inmendham uses the term objective and could have done better job with defining/pushing his terms "e.g. objective as truth/real/fact" and not let VG impose in his own. However, I don't ascribe a requirement to demonstrate an Objective BAD to ground a BAD as real, valid, and true; it can be entirely based on Subjectivist grounds/axiomatic foundations.
Just because the BAD takes place within subjectivity doesn't make it any less real (non-physical/immaterial sure... but not unreal). VG and nihilists can't understand this. 2+2 = 4 is subjective as is all science ultimately as a root axiomatic-fact... as an observation requires an observer. This doesn't mean realism can't be proven/grounded, it can just like we can know 2+2=4 and the moon exists. If anti-realism is gonna deny subjective truths because it's subjective, then one can't know much of anything and reduces to solipsism. I am more certain I exist and the reality of "perceived" BAD I experience is actually a real BAD... THAN that the moon even exists or any other scientific empirical claim.
If Anti-realism nihilism was True and Real "PROBLEMS" didn't exist the word wouldn't exist. It is like being born never knowing or seeing or experiencing vision & color, it's impossible to contrive or imagine it. Some knowledge & information is only accessible through experience.
Even Richard Dawkins stated, "pain is a message to the animal Don't do that again!"
If the ought exists within subjectivity, as preferences, why would them being Subjective vs Objective determine whether or not their violation matters? If one experiences disgust looking at something AND another finds beauty... both are true realities for them, they don't conflict or contradict like empirical or fact claims, but instead both are correct and relevant, not one or the other, BECAUSE when someone says the mona Lisa is beautiful they are just saying it arises in them a sense of beauty, the thing/input is irrelevant whereas the output in mind is what is relevant and true for their reality.
Subjective =/= not true, I don't understand the dichotomy between objective vs subjective ethics, as if there isn't facts to glean about subjectivity.
There's also definition or semantic problems:
objective (mind-independent) vs subjective (mind-dependent)
Under such definition does it make sense to say Objectively evolution created feeling experiencing organisms having sense of taste, smell, sound, hunger, pain, to survive. So can we apply word objective to mind-dependent experiences or not?
And of course under such definition there is no objective mind-independent ethics as without minds there is no feeling subject of concern to even talk about in first place. So how silly...
Yet they take objective to mean True & Subjective made up or mere contrived opinion.
For me these are semantic word games that distract, I just care about what's fact/true. What many don't get is Even science, math is subjective invention, byproduct of subjective tool of language, doesn't mean we can't create an accurate model and picture of reality.
Rather an Descriptive IS statement of X is a real bad/PROBLEM, denotes/demands a solution by it's very nature of the word, otherwise if it doesn't need solving then it becomes into a non-problem again, so either x categorically IS a PROBLEM or it's not.
The claim/argument... Is that it's Descriptively BAD/Problematic, therefore universally there's a deductively logically assigned preference to avoid it. Not the other way around. Our personal preference against torture forever doesn't make it therefore bad. The prescription is built in, forced onto us.
It's like "STOP!" & "GO" What do you say to a dog? "BAD dog!" This is saying it should or shouldn't do something. basically = "No!" "Stop!" That's a prescriptive statement/signal/conveyed message.
Or simply, alls required is Descriptively diagnose Torture as Problematic. Which implies Problem Solution Without necessity of solution there is no problem at all, likewise without problem solution means nothing.
Do you think animals have PREFERENCE by default to avoid being tortured burned alive and have sex, or logically preferences are born out of observing problematic negative / positive assigned accordingly through punishment & reward mechanisms aka prescriptions, think long and hard about this one...
It either is truly BAD or it isn't. It's either real or it's an illusion/delusion and false perception.
Their position must reduce to there is no MEANINGFUL difference between Torture & Bliss. And evolution didn't create any problematic sensation or true punishment whatsoever. Instead, were somehow deluded to view being boiling alive as problematic sensation/BAD, and relief as good, we can't tell the difference or label which is which...
"The value-laden problematic BAD experience of being tortured boiled alive in a vat of acid indefinitely... isn't really bad, evolution didn't successfully impose a real negative punishment mechanism on animals, torture isn't something I/we/animals had nothing to do with and are just byproduct observing the imposition, NO! Instead our opinion has everything to do with it... what's problematic torture, one is merely subjectively interpreting/inventing/proclaiming it to be so! Evolution failed!"
"Animals run from fire cause they irrationally unreasonably subjectively interpret it to be bad/problematic sensation or experience, not cause DNA molecule made it so objectively for evolutionary reasons"
"It is all subjective preference like flavor of potato chips, problematic torturous experience isn't bad you just think it's bad or have preference against it."
"You don't logically recognize intrinsic problematic torturous experience then logically assign solution to problem which is preference to avoid that experience, No, you merely have subjective delusional preference against a nail in your eye and there is no logic to it"
"Good is Bad, and Bad is Good depending on opinion, no right or wrong, all subjective tho"
value anti-realism nihilism. INSANE! WORSE than a flat-earth theory!
2024.05.21 14:26 pohltergiest Catching up on the Tohoku Times
 | Finally finding some time after resting to do my writing. The bike shop experience was a little sweaty in the hot weather, and while we were outside working on our bikes, not only did the wife of the mechanic go get us an iced coffee and an ice cream, she later made us care packages with an energy gel and a bunch of electrolyte tablets. Looking inside, it would seem this shop has been the home of a pro-level team for a long time, so I imagine they have a lot of these things on hand, but it was still very nice. submitted by pohltergiest to RainbowRamenRide [link] [comments] My wheel repair went well, the bumps and wobbles straightening out with the spoke repair. Bryce had them look at his front wheel, which had a different problem. He took a look at it, and after some consideration he said it was a "maintenance challenge" and proceeded to pull out a lot of wrenches. Bryce gleaned that the hub of the wheel needed tightening, and he did not have the correct wrenches to deal with this decidedly north american model. But he did have ones that were close enough and with some effort he managed to make it better to ride. After all was said and done we asked how much for the repairs and he tells us that he's a volunteer for the day, that this is his son's shop and he's just hanging out for the day because it's a holiday! We were flabbergasted but again he would not take any payment. We talked with him a bunch and he told us that he's in his 70's and attributes his good health to his biking, which he proudly states he's been doing for over 60 years now. We said he was an inspiration and said our goodbyes. We were lucky to get the repairs done so quick, as it gave us just enough time to hit up the aquarium. We needed to ride just 12km to get there, and a nice tunnel took us through a mountain range instead of us having to go over it. I was tired, the stress of the string of repairs really getting to me. But we arrived with an hour and a half til closing and got to see the aquarium which was a big white building tucked up against sea cliffs on the sea of Japan. I felt instantly more at ease, the temperature feeling more moderate by the water, which was calm as the day went on. The aquarium was lovely, with an obvious focus on jellyfish. I don't usually like aquariums or zoos due to what appears to be inadequate facilities for the inhabitants, but jellyfish in a tank? I don't think jellyfish care, or have the ability to care. This is like having a series of terrariums in my mind, jellyfish are one step above insects in my mind. And jellies they had, loads and loads of jellies, some on the larger side and lots of teeny tiny ones that almost can't be seen at all without magnification. They really do look like little automatons, just wiggling around. The tanks were all very tastefully lit, highlighting UV reactive cells, long streaming tendrils (that I'm sure have a proper name), and rainbow shimmering reflective cells that look deceptively like teeny tiny LEDs on little ridges. The prime attraction was the dream theatre, a dark room with a 5m tall tank circulating with hundreds or thousands of jellies and lit with a dreamy blue and purple light. We saw posters of famous artists performing in front of the jellyfish tank, the theatre being aptly named. We missed out on the jellyfish ramen noodles, it being a bit too late in the day, but we did get to enjoy the late day views from on top of the aquarium. Why did we ever leave the ocean? Flat roads, sunsets unmarred by dumb terrain, beaches. It's the best. I love beaches. Looking at the map, we'd have to cover 120km to get to Akita to take the ferry to hokkaido, so we decided to cover some ground while we still had light so as to not overload the next day should something happen. On we went. We zoomed past pastel-lit beaches, seeing folks sitting in pairs, waiting for the sunset. We've seen people stop right on highways if they have a good view of the sunset. We had no such time to enjoy it today. An hour or so later, we covered 20km to Sakata. Bryce wanted fried chicken for dinner, so we went to a takeout place and got way too much chicken for the two of us to eat. It can be hard to tell what you're getting, as one piece of karaage can be anything from a morsel to a meal, in this case we had more of a meal per piece along with rice and cabbage. We got some drinks from a vending machine and ate the food by a river, watching the water go by as the light faded. For once, we couldn't finish all the food, which was a shock. I always finish the food. Good job, random chicken place, you win this round. I found a big empty looking beach in the middle of nowhere on the map about 10km north of our position, so we prepared to set out for a night ride. Rain was in the forecast for the next morning, which meant we needed a private place that we wouldn't be bothered for an extended time during daylight hours. And we'd need to reduce our kilometers for the next day as we'd probably have to bike some of it in the rain, which sucks. As we were biking through the city, we happened upon a summer festival, people filling the streets. The usual assortment of festival treats didn't steal our attention, but I stopped for a moment to examine a line of white painted ladies in front of a stage that were talking turns talking about something or another. If only we had the time to watch the performance! We instead used our valuable time biking to a convenience store to one again get water, food, and some canned coffee for the next morning. Always an exciting time. We left the city, things now fully dark. The highway was not the best, lots of cracks and parts filled in with patches, and my focus wasn't the best. Obstructions become much harder to see in the light of a headlight, even harder to see when you have to use the dimmest setting as the headlamp always seems to be close to dying. My body bitched that it was the wrong time of day to be biking, I should already be setting up camp and kicking back, not pressing for an extra 10km. We did eventually make it to the beach intact, if a bit worn out, rolling down a sandy road until we had to push our bikes over dune-encrusted paths. Nobody here except a handful of night fishers, but they only care about fish. We pushed our bikes along the beach until we found a lonely pair of shelters for picnics and began setting up there. It seemed like a good spot, and we could tie up the tarp for extra rain protection. Giant wind fences on the beach would help with any gusts coming off the sea, but we weren't expecting a lot of wind anyways. Feeling like I'd have extra time in the morning, I got to sleep instead, feeling more tired than ever. It was late in the morning when we were ready to go, rain gear donned and our spirits as high as they would be all day. We had 95km to ride, half a day to do it, and we were already soaked. On we went. Rice planting is in full swing now, everywhere we go there's farmers hurredly planting thousands of tiny sprouts in prepared fields. Early on there was a bit of a roadside attraction in the form of a curiously coloured pond, which we dutifully checked out. The pond was indeed a brilliant blue green colour and very clear, like the water of some onsens we've seen. Reading a sign, the pond was the source of the little rivers nearby and the water was extremely cold which kept it from fouling. As we rode, the mist rising off the hills looked like smoke. We hoped the rain would turn to just mist soon. Wiping my face for the hundredth time, we slowly pedaled on. Rain pants tug on my skin, making knee pain feel more prominent. We bike slower too, I think the water on the road is just harder to bike on. Feels like slow motion compared to fair weather riding. After 30km, I needed to stop and get some real food in me, I found a mandarin restaurant serving spicy ramen, which sounded perfect for a cold, stiff day like this. We left our dripping rain gear outside where it might get slightly dryer simply by gravity, and went in, still sorta dripping anyways. Inside, the restaurant was filled to the brim with knickknacks and collectables and was bright and cheery despite the weather outside. I found a place to plug in my headlamp and we both ordered big bowls of spicy soup and colas for the sugar and caffeine boost we'd need to keep going. The soup was flavorful and delicious, with a ground pork that was sweet instead of savoury. Last time I made sweet pork it was kinda gross so it was neat to have a sweet pork that wasn't bad. I ate my whole bowl, needing all the calories I could get, and settled down a bit to check the radar for the area. As can be expected for the coast, the weather was temperamental. It was good we got going, as the section behind us was being hammered, while we could expect a bit of a reprieve from the rain as we moved forward. That was about as good as we could hope for and with the clock striking 2 (and playing a song) in the restaurant, we departed. The sky brightening a bit from a dreary grey to a less dreary grey, our moods lifted for a while while our jackets dried off in the breeze. The sights were beautiful, in a desolate sort of way. Something about staring off into seemingly infinite ocean is unsettling to me. The evergreens on rocky spits in the ocean reminded us of the west coast trail, a few unbothered sections of coast here and there revealing what this land is supposed to look like under all the concrete pylons and coast management techniques Japan loves. After an hour, I began having some real issues. My heart rate had spiked, my vision was a little odd, and I was starting to not feel well. Not good. I drank a bunch of water, which helped, but eventually my body decided the spicy ramen was too oily and spicy for my guts and I went to destroy a convenience store. I felt better after, but I really should know better by now. There's so much oil in the cooking here though, it's hard to avoid sometimes. We kept riding, now with no rain gear and keeping up a respectable pace. We went on a desolate road, giant windmills standing guard on the coast overlooking fields of windburnt trees all bent away from the water. Looks like this coast gets absolutely hammered by the wind, maybe I shouldn't complain too much about the rain if it's not windy as well. Things were looking up, our pace put us on schedule to arrive at 6, well before dark which put us in better spirits. Better spirits until Bryce's tire blew out. Pulling apart the tire layers, incredulous that the so-called "flatless" tires would fail us now, we found a shard of black glass stabbed straight through the thickest part of the tire and a centimeter into the tube section. Well there's no bike tire on earth that can survive that, that one's just bad luck. We felt a little better about that as we set about replacing it. At least with the new rim Bryce had it was much less of a fight to get the tire on and off to replace the tube. Getting the bead to set was a pain, Bryce cycled the tube pressure three times and we even soaped the edge to get it to budge. It seemed good enough to me, but the rim of the tire definitely seemed a little inconsistent. The rain starting again, we debated what we should do, I argued that if he was careful and avoided bumps the bead might set itself and we didn't have any other techniques we could try. He wasn't able to pull the tire over any more and my hands were too weak to be of much help. We were wet and cold by this point, so Bryce agreed with this and we remounted and got moving. We could always take the train if we had to, but that wasn't an option we wanted to do just yet. I was in the rear and I could immediately see and hear something was wrong with Bryce's bike, even though I was focused on the tire bead to see if it was setting properly. It looked like his front and back tires were tracking different paths and one or both seemed to be leaning? I know the front tire had a hub issue so I thought maybe they're just a bit off but after a while I called a halt as it looked just too messed up not to try reseating the axle. While we were redoing the rear axle, we discovered that a bolt holding the rear pannier rack was close to coming out altogether, the source of the terrible rattling I've been hearing for weeks now! That was a relief to fix, and the wheel seemed to be sitting better. Now we were quite a bit later, projections looking more like 7 o'clock and getting dark by the time we got to the city. The sky was getting lighter, but it was the sun starting to sink below the cloud layer, signaling the end of the day and the last of our riding light. I was so tired by this point, bone tired. The rain makes every kilometer feel like two, I was sneezing again, feeling sad. Lots of harsh feelings were welling up, life starting to roar back into focus as all the things I pushed away for the past year demanded answers right now. I tried my best to file away the petitions as I could, but mostly I just tried to keep my head up as my mood sunk lower with the sun. My sinuses decided they'd had enough and shut down, making my head feel like it was a size too big. In the last light of the day we got to Akita, the end of our Tohoku adventure. The kindness of the people we met saved us from finding the whole region cursed. I demanded burgers and fries to lift my soggy mood, nothing in my tool box keeping me happy. Luckily there was a good looking place near our hotel to try and it was a countertop kinda place. We went in to find a fully charming establishment full of locals and a pair of chefs working the counter. I was feeling just awful but Bryce had a good time interacting with people. Everyone was very curious about the two colourful and very wet foreigners who had wandered in after parking very large and heavy bikes. I joined in on the answers, having the better language skills whenever Bryce couldn't parse what was being asked, but I was more focused on the pile of fries and the chili burger I ordered. People were flabbergasted that we came all the way from the southern end of the country, the chefs assuming we must have come from Tokyo instead. Some of the other patrons started rattling off Canadians they knew, with Justin Bieber ("Justinoo Beeberu!") and Celine Dion topping the list. I ordered a BLT sandwich as I was still starving even after a whole meal. The chef brought over a bottle of nice sake to have as a toast to the brave travellers, which I had to refuse as I would like to recover from this cold sometime this century. There's so much booze that it's hard not to here. To alleviate the embarrassment of having to refuse the booze, he offered me a ginger ale instead, which I graciously accepted. The other chef laughed as they pulled out a bottle "Canada Dry" she said, to the laughter of the bar. Taste of home in a strange place. I polished off my BLT (and considered a second) and while I'm sure Bryce could have spent all evening taking free shots of excellent sake with the bartender, we had to be up early, so we said our goodbyes and waved as we wheeled our bikes into the dark city. I left in a good mood, but tired as hell. Bryce was positivity beaming from the fun interactions, and the four drinks he had. The hotel was nearby, so it wasn't too hard. A parking attendant ushered us to a spot near the guardhouse, and we locked up there. He asked us when we were thinking of getting the bikes the next day, and when we said 430 in the morning he was a little taken aback. He understood that the ferry was early but that was too early for him. The hotel room was nice enough, but all I wanted was a bath and sleep. There were bath salts at the front desk and we took turns soaking in the tub. I wasted no time, doing my thing, arranging my clothes for the morning, setting an alarm and going to sleep. 415 would be just around the corner. |
2024.05.21 14:24 backupcharacter38 I (28M) am not sure how to feel after things with my friend (28F) went wrong. Should i give up hope of it turning into something more?
First time poster on mobile so i apologize for formatting. For 6 months ive been getting increasingly close to my friend. She recently moved from another state to try and live on her own and we stsrted talking more and more frequently as time went on. I'd always had a crush on her and eventuslly we started flirting which evolved to the point where we were as intimate as 2 people on different sides of a state can be. We talked all the time. During this we both let each other know how we felt and sent photos back and forth. I've always been a heavier set guy and did my best to make sure that wouldnt be an issue. Eventually things fell through with her living situation. A mix of issues including the lack of a real support structure other than me. Before she moved we wanted to meet in person so I planned a trip to go see her.
Long story short, things went poorly. The entire time she was on the verge of tears from a mixture of stress and me being there. Or atleast thats how I felt. She said even though she wants to be with me, she wasnt attracted to me because of my weight. We talked and cried and after the trip was done I made changes to my lifestyle in attempts to lose weight. Ive begun dieting and cut out lots of sugars and things from my daily intake. Ive begun walking as often as i can and drink almost exclusively water. As time has gone on she has become increasingly distant after moving away and i cant help but feel like even though im putting in effort that im losing her. If im honest with myself I really do love her but im not sure if shes actuslly willing to wait or if for her things are already over and she just doesnt want to hurt me. We've gone from talking multiple times a day for hours to barely even texting and it honestly hurts but i cant even blame her.
I suppose the question im asking is whether or not you think this is all a sign of her having lost interest entirely or if you think its something else?
submitted by backupcharacter38 to relationship_advice [link] [comments]
Long story short, things went poorly. The entire time she was on the verge of tears from a mixture of stress and me being there. Or atleast thats how I felt. She said even though she wants to be with me, she wasnt attracted to me because of my weight. We talked and cried and after the trip was done I made changes to my lifestyle in attempts to lose weight. Ive begun dieting and cut out lots of sugars and things from my daily intake. Ive begun walking as often as i can and drink almost exclusively water. As time has gone on she has become increasingly distant after moving away and i cant help but feel like even though im putting in effort that im losing her. If im honest with myself I really do love her but im not sure if shes actuslly willing to wait or if for her things are already over and she just doesnt want to hurt me. We've gone from talking multiple times a day for hours to barely even texting and it honestly hurts but i cant even blame her.
I suppose the question im asking is whether or not you think this is all a sign of her having lost interest entirely or if you think its something else?
2024.05.21 14:23 ioutfanan When do you return to work?
I (29F) lost my dad two weeks ago. We only burried him on Wednesday last week. The three weeks leading up to his passing were a bit of a rollercoaster, he had a chest infection and then he was admitted to the ICU. I flew over to be with him whilst he was in hospital. I work remotely, so I took a couple of days off to get to fly over and visit him. I was in and out of work, I was responsive to my colleagues and delegated some works out to the team but ultimately decided I couldn't commit to any further projects because it was such an unsure time since he would go from good to bad, bad to good, so I decided to not add my imbalance to my colleagues planning and signed out. I thought we were in the clear, so returned to work for a couple of days and then found out he had cancer. I told my boss, and signed out in complete shock but was hoping for a treatment plan. So, I wasn't sure how much I could commit to work. He then passed less than a week after. It was a bank holiday weekend so I let my boss know. She has been quite understanding of the whole situation. So, I've been in and out of work for about 5 weeks now.
On top of this, we've almost lost our house due to his passing so there hasn't exactly been a moment to let everything settle.
I'm such a workaholic, I usually use work to distract me from everything. In my contract I get three days for immediate family bereavement leave. When my step-dad passed, I returned to work almost immediately.
I don't know, this feels a bit different. I feel like returning to work is making everything go back to normal and nothing feels normal right now. I've confided in family and they are saying maybe a routine would help. My friend who lost her mum told me not to go back too soon, because I'll be back out as fast as I'm in.
I know I could have a conversation with her, but I don't want to disrespect my situation at work by taking off more time.
It kind of feels a bit unfair to consider work because with this loss I've realised only time with the people you love is important. Like I said, I'm such a workaholic. I know that the work I have left to do at work is on hold until I come back, I know if I left tomorrow they would figure it out, companies always do BUT genuinely I'm highly depended on. So, I can feel it piling in the back of my mind but don't know if I can even deliver right now.
What felt right for you to do when it came to returning to work?
submitted by ioutfanan to GriefSupport [link] [comments]
On top of this, we've almost lost our house due to his passing so there hasn't exactly been a moment to let everything settle.
I'm such a workaholic, I usually use work to distract me from everything. In my contract I get three days for immediate family bereavement leave. When my step-dad passed, I returned to work almost immediately.
I don't know, this feels a bit different. I feel like returning to work is making everything go back to normal and nothing feels normal right now. I've confided in family and they are saying maybe a routine would help. My friend who lost her mum told me not to go back too soon, because I'll be back out as fast as I'm in.
I know I could have a conversation with her, but I don't want to disrespect my situation at work by taking off more time.
It kind of feels a bit unfair to consider work because with this loss I've realised only time with the people you love is important. Like I said, I'm such a workaholic. I know that the work I have left to do at work is on hold until I come back, I know if I left tomorrow they would figure it out, companies always do BUT genuinely I'm highly depended on. So, I can feel it piling in the back of my mind but don't know if I can even deliver right now.
What felt right for you to do when it came to returning to work?
2024.05.21 14:22 Agile-Desk1182 Am I being Unreasonable? Mother wants to charge 800$ more rent
TLDR; 24F Constant arguments with mother, paying for house utilities, younger brother provisions, a few personal finances, mother wants to charge 800$ rent in what feels like retaliation, I want to move out but don't want to be in a bad financial spot.
I 24F college graduate, work a contracting position starting to make decent money. I have been working since i graduated for two years. I make 65K a year. i have been working here for a little under 6 months, before I was making 50k (Yay for the jump in salary). I max out my 401k, and I pay 185 a month for health insurance.
My issue here is my mother. The older I get, the less respect she seems to have for me as an adult simply on the basis of she is my mother so she can say and do anything she wants because she feels justified as she "only wants the best for me"
We recently got into an argument after I volunteered to her that i occasionally partake in marijuana. She got very agressive, very rude and then destructive of my property. I left the house for a week and then came back. In retaliation, she decided I now need to pay 800$ in rent. Whenever we get into a spat, suddenly I need to pay more. As my expenses are right now, i pay the electric bill which ranges from 330-365$, the Internet 93$, car insurance 240 (Theres three people on the car insurance for a total monthly bill of 424. I'm paying about half of it) and phone 100. I send the car insurance and phone to zelle through my mother. The 100 for phone is for my younger brother and my phone bill. Just the device and the insurance because my tmobile line is free. I also handle my younger brothers personal finances while he's in school. Money for groceries, clothes, books, etc.. things that he needs apart from his tuition and housing. Roughly let's say its about 300$ a month, . I do my share of the house work and grocery shopping for the home/ if my mother needs things from the store. When she needs something, she'll ask me if i need the money for it and then she will give me her coin purse and then a list of items to buy that clearly cost more than what I was given. I don't complain about it. I usually just set it down and use my own money to buy it without saying I need to be paid back and all as much as she claims she will pay me back etc..
We recently went on a small vacation and i paid for me and my younger brother, around 8k. Unfortunately a lot was going on around this time and my savings took a hit because of this. I've been rebuilding.
Whenever they do house renovations, my mother wants me to help pay for it. I live in the basement and recently paid 1.5k to help them redo the floors because the carpet bothered my mom so much. I kept saying we could get it cleaned, but she was against it and I gave in and paid for it. She now wants to put up a wall in my room, to separate my room from the laundry room so that (her reason is: she saw it in our neighbors home and thought it was good to allow some privacy in the basement. This was her idea, I didn't ask for it. I said from the very beginning that i don't have the money to pay for that. It's a pain having my room so open but I have never complained to her about it. She brought it up and said I have to pay the materials which I disagree to and it caused a slight argument.
She claims I don't pay rent or contribute to the house hold so it's only fair that I pay 800$ in addition. That paying for wifi should be counted as a "personal" expense because I need it to work my remote job, even though I completely disagree. The mortgage is about 2k. (Are you wondering if my dad helps pay anything? Because apparently what he does is he helps pay for the home is the mortgage). In talking with my father he has told me that he prefers i move out, that My mother and I can't handle disagreements and until i move out, theres no such thing as being treated like an adult because my mother simply wont see it that way.
I agree with him. As soon as my mother doesn't get what she wants out of me, or I do something or dress someway she doesn't agree, she becomes this super rude, and super aggressive person to me. The person i date, the clothes i wear, the things I choose to spend my money on. When i don't engage she will follow me around to yell at me and I will get annoyed and snap back by being petty or disrespectful in how I speak. Now it feels like teen years again. She is the only one I have this issue with.
It's one thing to say you need help with house finances so we should be able to sit down and discuss so that I have the ability to properly save and help out as much as i can where I can, but continuously using it as a power move..I feel slighted here.\
I have been wanting to move out for a while, this past year I was set back some, but the goal has always been to build enough to have a good emergency fund so I can move out. I told her to give me two months first and then she brought up how my dad said I wanted to move out. I explained that me wanting to move out has nothing to do with our argument as I had always planned to move out and I've expressed since I graduated school that I will not be staying home 'till I get married. This however has made me want to speed up the process.
I know realistically, two months isn't enough time for me to get to where I want to be, but while I'm working towards it, how do I move forward on this with her? Am I being unreasonable? I understand that in me saying give me 2 months, it was from a place of annoyance instead of straight up just saying no to 800, especially because i don't want to put myself in a bad financial spot even though part of me wants to say fuck it and figure it out if it means having my own sense of peace in my own place.
submitted by Agile-Desk1182 to Adulting [link] [comments]
I 24F college graduate, work a contracting position starting to make decent money. I have been working since i graduated for two years. I make 65K a year. i have been working here for a little under 6 months, before I was making 50k (Yay for the jump in salary). I max out my 401k, and I pay 185 a month for health insurance.
My issue here is my mother. The older I get, the less respect she seems to have for me as an adult simply on the basis of she is my mother so she can say and do anything she wants because she feels justified as she "only wants the best for me"
We recently got into an argument after I volunteered to her that i occasionally partake in marijuana. She got very agressive, very rude and then destructive of my property. I left the house for a week and then came back. In retaliation, she decided I now need to pay 800$ in rent. Whenever we get into a spat, suddenly I need to pay more. As my expenses are right now, i pay the electric bill which ranges from 330-365$, the Internet 93$, car insurance 240 (Theres three people on the car insurance for a total monthly bill of 424. I'm paying about half of it) and phone 100. I send the car insurance and phone to zelle through my mother. The 100 for phone is for my younger brother and my phone bill. Just the device and the insurance because my tmobile line is free. I also handle my younger brothers personal finances while he's in school. Money for groceries, clothes, books, etc.. things that he needs apart from his tuition and housing. Roughly let's say its about 300$ a month, . I do my share of the house work and grocery shopping for the home/ if my mother needs things from the store. When she needs something, she'll ask me if i need the money for it and then she will give me her coin purse and then a list of items to buy that clearly cost more than what I was given. I don't complain about it. I usually just set it down and use my own money to buy it without saying I need to be paid back and all as much as she claims she will pay me back etc..
We recently went on a small vacation and i paid for me and my younger brother, around 8k. Unfortunately a lot was going on around this time and my savings took a hit because of this. I've been rebuilding.
Whenever they do house renovations, my mother wants me to help pay for it. I live in the basement and recently paid 1.5k to help them redo the floors because the carpet bothered my mom so much. I kept saying we could get it cleaned, but she was against it and I gave in and paid for it. She now wants to put up a wall in my room, to separate my room from the laundry room so that (her reason is: she saw it in our neighbors home and thought it was good to allow some privacy in the basement. This was her idea, I didn't ask for it. I said from the very beginning that i don't have the money to pay for that. It's a pain having my room so open but I have never complained to her about it. She brought it up and said I have to pay the materials which I disagree to and it caused a slight argument.
She claims I don't pay rent or contribute to the house hold so it's only fair that I pay 800$ in addition. That paying for wifi should be counted as a "personal" expense because I need it to work my remote job, even though I completely disagree. The mortgage is about 2k. (Are you wondering if my dad helps pay anything? Because apparently what he does is he helps pay for the home is the mortgage). In talking with my father he has told me that he prefers i move out, that My mother and I can't handle disagreements and until i move out, theres no such thing as being treated like an adult because my mother simply wont see it that way.
I agree with him. As soon as my mother doesn't get what she wants out of me, or I do something or dress someway she doesn't agree, she becomes this super rude, and super aggressive person to me. The person i date, the clothes i wear, the things I choose to spend my money on. When i don't engage she will follow me around to yell at me and I will get annoyed and snap back by being petty or disrespectful in how I speak. Now it feels like teen years again. She is the only one I have this issue with.
It's one thing to say you need help with house finances so we should be able to sit down and discuss so that I have the ability to properly save and help out as much as i can where I can, but continuously using it as a power move..I feel slighted here.\
I have been wanting to move out for a while, this past year I was set back some, but the goal has always been to build enough to have a good emergency fund so I can move out. I told her to give me two months first and then she brought up how my dad said I wanted to move out. I explained that me wanting to move out has nothing to do with our argument as I had always planned to move out and I've expressed since I graduated school that I will not be staying home 'till I get married. This however has made me want to speed up the process.
I know realistically, two months isn't enough time for me to get to where I want to be, but while I'm working towards it, how do I move forward on this with her? Am I being unreasonable? I understand that in me saying give me 2 months, it was from a place of annoyance instead of straight up just saying no to 800, especially because i don't want to put myself in a bad financial spot even though part of me wants to say fuck it and figure it out if it means having my own sense of peace in my own place.
2024.05.21 14:21 Sweet-Meeting-8678 The Impact of Digital Marketing Services on UAE Startups
 | Success of a start-up in today’s fast-paced digital world is based on how well it exploits efficient strategies for digital marketing. This is particularly the case in UAE where there is an ever changing business environment and technology literate population which makes innovation and growth possible. A reputable provider of digital marketing services to the startups in UAE, Intersmart Solutions, plays a significant role in guiding such firms though this complex landscape. The article looks at how important digital marketing services are to UAE startups’ success while highlighting the contributions made by Intersmart Solutions. submitted by Sweet-Meeting-8678 to u/Sweet-Meeting-8678 [link] [comments] The Digital Landscape in the UAEThe United Arab Emirates (UAE) is a center for technological advancement and digitization. This provides companies within the country with a unique chance to tap into a large online audience that is highly involved. In this regard, some of the features defining the digital environment for business include:
The role of Digital Marketing Services in Start-up Success
The Impact of Digital Marketing Services on UAE Startups https://preview.redd.it/h1rj1rxkvr1d1.jpg?width=4611&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f766c23ded96423fb957b12e5ebc453242d973c4 digital marketing services in uae |
2024.05.21 14:06 KatashaMercury Chris Alvarez Live: A Transcript
Christopher Alvarez:
Woman:
Woman:
submitted by KatashaMercury to DarkKenny [link] [comments]
Going to do a quick live. If you haven't already, go to my stories and read the article I just dropped about the Drake and Kendrick Lamar beef.Woman:
It's been a wild ride, a wild weekend, and today is Monday. Like we say in Spanish: [I don't speak Spanish.]
Today has been a day where I have been forced to reflect on many of the things that happened to what started on social media and it wasn't a very exciting weekend for my family because they were concerned for my mental health and well-being.
The article that dropped kind of explains that Drake and Kendrick and all of the other celebrities that I have had the courage to connect with, they are great moments that I've lived in my life and that was a time when we were -- I was a kid, you know, just being a fan, living life, meeting my idols.
But nothing happened that night. All these accusations that Drake raped me, that Drake paid off some big money to make me stay quiet or like the Post article. Like, on that I have nothing to hide. I'm an open book. That's what I've told everybody my whole life.
I kind of write down the struggle of being a disabled person and I would never put anyone in harm's way. I understand that these comments on social media have hurt a lot of people because they have messaged me and I'm sorry to them.
I'm sorry to the Mark Hotel for the bad publicity that they have, that they've obtained.
I'm sorry to the security guard at the Mark Hotel for getting fired.
None of this is fabricated. I don't have any intention to bash anyone. It's unfortunate that this is the reason that I have to go live, this is the reason that I have to connect with my fans because I have to apologize for something that I have no idea how I got involved in.
So, I wish everybody could just put this aside. Look forward. Because that's what life is about, you know? Life throws you a lot of curveballs but it's how you get around it and it's how you make the best of every situation and I hope this predicament is an example of how obstacles are never too big for me to overcome and this is just one of them.
Thank to anybody who's texted me kind words. Thank you to the Brooklyn Eagle for giving me the space, the opportunity, to share my side of the story. If you haven't already, go and read it. And I'm gonna go answer some questions in a little bit so go ahead and type whatever you want to know.
Okay, so, no, I was not on drugs. I'm not --
3 AM, yes, 3 AM. So what? It's New York City, baby. We party. It's the city that never sleeps.
No, Drake did not pay me. I'm okay. Nothing happened between Drake and I, nothing bad happened. We were just hitting it off, like a fan, as someone who likes music, and he’s got some great, great music coming out so stay tuned.
What else?
I guess that's pretty much it but I wanna say I know there have been some news outlets clearly like [???] who have tried to turn this debacle into something that it’s not. I don't think that's the right way to go about it. We should all reach out to the source before posting something. That's what I learned at Columbia journalism school. [Study to be right, to be best?]
What else do you want me to say?
It's been real. It's been real, guys. Thank you for the support. Thank you for everything. Keep reading. I'm gonna keep posting stuff as a journalist because that's what I do. I make people pay for doing bad things. So, those who are private entities or public officials, I make them pay. I make them own their word.
What other articles? I'm working on an article about [Miami pools?] shutting down so I think that’s my next article. I should have something coming out Friday night so stay tuned to that page, as well. If you don't follow me: journalvarez, that’s my professional page. Just like my Twitter handle which I think you guys, most of you guys, have figured out and started following so whether it's for the good reasons, or the right reasons, stay tuned.
I don't really keep up with what's being dropped by those Twitter users. I don't really know what else has been leaked so I can't comment on the audio of the puppy or the dog, whatever people are texting about.This is something that was brought to my attention by a friend. I don't follow beef. I don't really care about the beef from anyone because I live life happy, every day. Life is too short to hate. [So, gotta do that justice?]
I wish Kendrick and Drake all the best going forward. Hopefully they can hash things out. And keep reading the article. Thank you for this [?], I'm out.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
[Moonshine?]
Do you want to answer questions, or no?Chris:
I’m out. [??] Everything goes so fast.Woman:
I know. They're asking if you got paid. They're asking who came in the room, I don't know what that - I don't know where they got a room from. “Did you see the altercation with the security?” What puppy? That’s our dog. Okay.Chris:
That's my dog.Woman:
Let’s see… “Don't lie,” okay. “Was Drake kind to you?”Chris:
Drake is always kind to me. He’s [??] guy and I can't say anything wrong about him or any other celebrities that I’ve come in contact with.Woman:
“Did he slap you?” Answer’s no. “Were you paid?” No.Chris:
I was not paid. I was not slapped. I was not abused. Nothing happened that night except just two guys enjoying some music.Woman:
They want to know why you said to the person to DM youChris:
Yes. I will address that. That person said that there was a New York officer who paid Ebony Prince to make all this nonsense up. I just wanted to talk to her about what else she knew but apparently something is going on with her page so I never DMed her cause the page, the DMs weren't showing upWoman:
Okay. “Why were you with him at 3 AM?”Chris:
3 AM, I mean… it’s the morning. I know it's late, but New York is the city that never sleeps and people party hearty here in New YorkWoman:
“Is Drake innocent of these accusations?”Chris:
Drake is innocent and should not be slandered.Woman:
“Why were you liking comments earlier?” Do you want me to answer that? You got it?Chris:
I like… Everything I do on social media has a second intention and I like comments to create suspense, whether it's pertaining to, who knows what the comment is talking about.Woman:
Yeah, they're asking about the comments. Okay. “The fact that the nurse answers those two means she's lying.” I don't know what nurse you're talking about. Okay. “Hospital after that date, everything okay?” Did you go to the hospital?Chris:
I don't think so.Woman:
I have no idea.Chris:
I went to the [?] hotel in Brooklyn the night after.Woman:
Yeah, okay.Chris:
I like the ice. I like the cold.Woman:
“He got a little girl as a present from…” I have no idea what that means.Chris:
Wait, what?Woman:
They said that you got a little girl as a present, which is fucking weirdChris:
Stop, stop doing that.Woman:
Stop what? Cursing?Chris:
Don't curse.Woman:
Okay, no cursing.Chris:
I'm a [?] guy, I don't curse.Woman:
He said “What's the benefit to answering crazy allegations like this?”Chris:
There's no benefit, you know. I'm not a guy who likes to feed people what they like to hear but this was a specific scenario where my family and my friends would be harmed and I needed to come out.Woman:
Okay, wait…Chris:
What else, what else?Woman:
“Someone talking in Spanish to him in the background…”Chris:
I'm Spanish. I'm from Colombia. Colombia [???]Woman:
Okay. Sorry. I think that's it.Chris:
Wait, go back, go back.Woman:
Oh, go back?Chris:
To “the article do--”Woman:
Oh, “the article doesn't seem consistent,” I guessChris:
What part of the article is not consistent? Let me know. Type your thoughts.Woman:
Yeah, be more specific about this so-called inconsistency. “What's on the lobby video?”Chris:
I have not seen the video. I have seen a screenshot of my face that's clearly me at 3:19 AM leaving the hotel after Drake and I had a good time listening to beats.Woman:
“Chris, did you ever see Drake around any minors that night?”Chris:
That night, I never saw him with any minors.[Video freezes]
you let me know, okay? Because we’re [??] to tell them to get away from me because I like to be independent.Woman:
Okay, good.Chris:
What else?Woman:
“What is she reading?” I'm reading the questions, guys.Chris:
That’s my assistant. She'll be reading questions because y’all type too fast.Woman:
Yeah.[Video freezes]
Woman:
Okay.[Video freezes]
Woman:
These are just comments.Chris:
I don't know about the second guard. I know about one guard. [??][Video freezes]
I usually [?????]Woman:
It says “You said it was just you two but we see multiple people in the picture?” Or in the video, I guess.Chris:
I have only seen one picture and it’s me and this [blurred out?] guy in a red hoodie and I have no idea who that is.Woman:
Okay. It’s too many questions. “Do you know who this Ebony person is?”Chris:
I would like to find out who he is and trust me that the journalism guy in me will get to the bottom of it.Woman:
Okay, they keep asking why the guard was fired.Chris:
The guard was fired for letting me into the hotel. I had gotten to the hotel an hour before Drake arrived.Woman:
They're also asking if you had to sign an NDA.Chris:
I don't sign NDAs. Nobody controls me. I am my own man and I know when I have to speak up.Woman:
Someone said “Where can I read the article?”Chris:
Go to brooklyneagle.com. Go ahead, I'm on the front page.Woman:
“You’re making up your own questions to check.”
I saw that, but I'm not. “Did you meet Drake’s dogs?”Chris:
No. I did not meet Drake’s dog. I don't like dogs. I have a dog because it’s my sister’s but I don't mess with dogs.Woman:
[J???] get out of here.
Oh, [J???]’s here.Chris:
[J???], get out. You don't want to be here.Woman:
Yeah, they're saying your ventilator sounds just like the beginning of 6:16. I will say I listened to that and it sounds nothing like the ventilator. I don't know where people are getting that from.Chris:
The ventilator is the reason why I can't hear. It’a too loud.Woman:
[J??] says “Hola.” Hi, [J??]Chris:
“Why were there police there?”
Police are always there to protect the celebrity.Woman:
“Why were you following underage kids,” you already answered that.Chris:
Okay. I guess we’re done, guys. Thank you for keeping up. Thank you for following. Thank you for supporting, those of you who have [?]. Keep reading the article. Brooklyn Eagle, if you haven't already. I will be on my social media more, obviously, because you guys are commenting. So, I will be on the lookout for anything in the comments that needs to be answered. Thank you. Have a good night. I’m out.