f23 and m33. So I wouldn’t say we are dating per se since we just met about a month ago at a mutual friends party and he lives out of state. But we talk everyday whether it be text or on the phone! He even invited me to his state since there are mountains where he lives! Here is the issue: he tends to be a super dry texter and barely gives any energy. I obviously try not to use Gen Z ancronyms since he has told me he doesn’t know what that means ( i think that’s kinda cute). I guess i’m just asking if it’s normal or if he is just not interested in me anymore. Here are is an example of what he has said to make me think that maybe he is no longer interested: me: “You have time to chat on the phone a bit” him: “i am pretty grumpy maybe another time sorry girl”. I then asked him if there was anything to do to make him feel better and I know it’s terrible but i tend to send pics in order to achieve male validation (which is stupid i know) but i offered because i’m a stupid 23 year old, after the pic he seemed a bit happier but maybe he just had a long day? I don’t know maybe i’m overthinking it.

Prepare for a wall of text, this is a long one, also, english is not my mother´s tongue. Im posting this after a question in AskMen touched a sensitive fiber and I need some advice on how to proceed. I posted this on relationshipadvice too, but the female perspective you could offer me here might help me understand this from her point of view too.
She is a married friend of mine, but our friendship is quite peculiar.
We know eachother since our last year at university (eight years ago), we did a team asignament and got along well so we continued seeing eachother after the course ended. We clicked well and talked about everything including our romantic lifes, her almost sexless relationship and my shitty and sexless dating life. We developed trust, companionship and a curiosity for trying new things together. We have the same values, political leaning and dark sense of humour. It is a great friendship and we can confide eachother anything.
She was in an almost sexless relationship for years, she married that same guy and is still married to him (14 years together and counting). Her relationship with her now husband is great except for the sexual aspect. This was a recurring conflict in her relationship up to the point than her then BF told her than "if she wanted sex so much she could find someone else", it didnt bothered him that she had sex outside of the relationship. She almost told him to go fuck himself right there. Ironically, near the marriage date she found chats his fiance had with another woman, he was planing on cheating on her. They talked thing out, she forgave him and got married. I asked her WTF she was thinkig, but she said she loved him...
Over the years of closeness, trust and mutual support, we developed atraction we both adknowledged to eachother but we both knew nothing would happen because she was married. Just to give you an example, she once told me that if she wasnt married we would have been having sex from long ago (wierd to translate from spanish), and I told her that the only thing stopping me is that she respected her marriage. This kind pull and push went on every once in a while for years. We both knew nothing would happen but we liked having someone that made us feel sexually desired, as her relationship was as sexless as before the marriage, and my dating life sucked big time.
Arround year and a half ago, she gave her husband an ultimatum and he finally went to an endocrinologist and a therapist, and after some time their sexual life improved. This went fine for arround a year until her father in law passed away, and their sex life plummeted again.
In our last meetups she told me her husband screwed up again, she found he had a collection of pictures he took from a coworkers IG profile and pictures from other women, which he looked before having sex with her to arouse and prepare himself for the act. When she confronted him, he said he was going to try to improve, but a month passed and he was caught again looking at other womens pic. He said to her that his psychologist told him he wasnt hurting anyone by doing this, as it wasnt cheating.
He said he wanted to do a clean slate, try from the begining again and she also said she had something to confess. A year after the wedding, she took some singing lessons (she sings preety well) and there was a classmate that didnt gave a fuck she was married, she hadnt had sex in months, found someone who was agresive in his aproach, lusted for her and caved in. She told me about the guy when this happened, but she lied to me and said that "it took a lot of willpower and self restraint not to cheat".
Now, here is the problem:
I never expected her to dump her BF/husband for me because that is a recipe for failure and being replaced on the same way the previous guy was. And while I stated I was interested I never pushed too far because of her morals (christian practicing woman who believed in marriage and loyalty AFAIK then). I have to admit than I if she dumped him I would have taken my chance because she is everything I want in a woman (except for the cheating part), she actually raised the standard of what I would like in a long term partner.
But it really pissed me off than the moment she decides to take the risk to set her life on fire, she does it with a random guy, and that the excuse she gave me is that she valued our friendship and would have caused her a lot of pain if her husband found out and she couldnt see me again, she didnt sleep with me because she values me. What kind of twisted, emotionally manipulative way ot thinking is that???. I didnt confront her that exact moment and emotionally dissociated because at the time we were having a coffee previous to a theater function she gifted the ticket to me for my birthday (we give eachother nice gifts), it was not the time nor the place.
I honestly feel used for the validation her husband didnt gave her for years, and a part of me wants to tell her to fuck off and never talk to her again. Another part of me sees a great friend in her, and it would hurt me dearly not having her in my life. This confession changed the way I see her, there is no going back from that. I can accept being second to her husband, for good or bad, its the man she choosed to share her life with, but not to a random stranger (one who didnt gave a fuck about her values).
I have to be honest too, and in these eight years my dating life was a dissaster, I never dated much, I tried for a month or two, then dropped the towel for months on a never ending cycle with longer hiatus each time. Dating allmost always lead nowhere for me, I only had sex with two women in all that time, I would have loved a LTR but it never happened for me. So, having someone that found me atractive as a person and as a man made me feel a bit valued.
TLDR: I have feelings for a married friend, she said she is atracted to me too. It never lead anywhere because we both knew our place. She cheated on her husband with a random guy and told me she didnt cheat on him with me because she values me.

This is my first post I’m not really sure how redit works so bear with me, all of this also JUST happened tonight so my mind is everywhere, but I’m almost 99.999% positive my 22 F boyfriend 23 M is gay. Me and him have kind of always had a really rocky relationship that I’ve always kind of known wasn’t healthy, but we’ve been on and off for 7 years. I lost my virginity to him, he’s my first love, literally my first everything, and all of this doesn’t even feel real.
He’s always been uncomfortable with PDA and as we’ve gotten older he’s been more detached and not as loving as he once was. I just figured it was because we’ve broken up for months and (once) years at a time, so he’s just keeping his guard up. But as of lately it’s been even worse. I only see him once a week, and later in the night for example he’ll come over around 8 or 9pm and fall asleep around 11 or 12 and wake me up in the morning saying he’s going home. So in all I’m getting about 3 hours a week with him. I’ve brought it up several times and even broke up with him over it. Eventually we’ve gotten back together of course, but it’s just weird to me. He does work a lot, but he spends ALL of his free time with his friends, and I’ve never met them.
7 YEARS in each others lives and I’ve never met his closest friends besides a few mutuals.
Anyways, tonight he came over because we were talking on the phone late last night and decided to get back together after being broken up for about 2 weeks. When he got here (10:45pm btw) I felt so emotional and unwanted because of him coming over so late (he was with his friends) but tried to just brush it off as me being me. We messed around, and I immediately started crying after which is not normal for me. He didn’t notice bc he was overly tired from work and being a little drunk so we cuddled a bit and he fell asleep.
That’s when I got the urge to go through his phone. I know what most people will say about that, it was really shitty, but we haven’t done that to each other in years so it was very weird I suddenly felt like I needed to. It was completely clean and there was literally nothing that bothered me, until I went to his google search history.
It was ALL GAY P VIDEOS. Literally all of it. Shemale, femboy, straight up ‘regular’ gay p, you name it. There was NO hetero p from what I saw.
This isn’t the first time he’s done something that’s made me question his sexuality. We’ve explored peg ging, which he loved so much he got a bit obsessive about it, like touching his nether region is all he wanted at one point. I haven’t done it in a long time, and I think he’s picked up on that because he’s relaxed a lot. But still brings it up often.
Once he was looking through his camera roll with me next to him, and I saw pics of him in girls underwear. We had a long emotional talk, he explained it was just part of his fetish for butt stuff, and I asked him if he’s gay or at least bi, and he said no. I told him I would always love him no matter what and if he was he could tell me. He got really mad, and insisted that wasn’t the case. So I dropped it and we never talked about the pictures again.
He’s always made really overly homophobic comments, not only am I bisexual (he’s aware of this) but most of the people I’m closest to are some type of queer, so we would often get into heated arguments regarding the lgbt+ community. He would always just really over play it, and I let it slide bc I’d always had an inkling he was probably bi himself and not ready to admit like most people who grew up in religious settings like himself.
All of this has happened months and even a couple years apart. So up until the gay p I never really thought he was fully gay.
If anyone sees this PLEASE give me advice on how to approach this. I can’t just break up with him without reason, and especially without knowing for certain. After 7 years I need some type of clarity. I’ve tried to move on before and we ALWAYS come back together. I don’t know how to approach this situation, I get that it’s going to be VERY sensitive for him, I don’t want to force him to come out to me, but I need something after spending 1/3 of my life loving and being with him. Again sorry if this is poorly worded and doesn’t make sense.
TL;DR I found gay p on my boyfriend’s phone after 7 years of being together, and along with other incidents. I have no idea how to handle this situation, he’s always been a bit overly “homophobic” and I need advice on how to handle this without making him feel cornered or forcing him to come out if he isn’t ready.

Prepare for a wall of text, this is a long one, also, english is not my mother´s tongue. Im posting this after a question in AskMen touched a sensitive fiber and I need some advice on how to proceed.
She is a married friend of mine, but our friendship is quite peculiar.
We know eachother since our last year at university (eight years ago), we did a team asignament and got along well so we continued seeing eachother after the course ended. We clicked well and talked about everything including our romantic lifes, her almost sexless relationship and my shitty and sexless dating life. We developed trust, companionship and a curiosity for trying new things together. We have the same values, political leaning and dark sense of humour. It is a great friendship and we can confide eachother anything.
She was in an almost sexless relationship for years, she married that same guy and is still married to him (14 years together and counting). Her relationship with her now husband is great except for the sexual aspect. This was a recurring conflict in her relationship up to the point than her then BF told her than "if she wanted sex so much she could find someone else", it didnt bothered him that she had sex outside of the relationship. She almost told him to go fuck himself right there. Ironically, near the marriage date she found chats his fiance had with another woman, he was planing on cheating on her. They talked thing out, she forgave him and got married. I asked her WTF she was thinkig, but she said she loved him...
Over the years of closeness, trust and mutual support, we developed atraction we both adknowledged to eachother but we both knew nothing would happen because she was married. Just to give you an example, she once told me that if she wasnt married we would have been having sex from long ago (wierd to translate from spanish), and I told her that the only thing stopping me is that she respected her marriage. This kind pull and push went on every once in a while for years. We both knew nothing would happen but we liked having someone that made us feel sexually desired, as her relationship was as sexless as before the marriage, and my dating life sucked big time.
Arround year and a half ago, she gave her husband an ultimatum and he finally went to an endocrinologist and a therapist, and after some time their sexual life improved. This went fine for arround a year until her father in law passed away, and their sex life plummeted again.
In our last meetups she told me her husband screwed up again, she found he had a collection of pictures he took from a coworkers IG profile and pictures from other women, which he looked before having sex with her to arouse and prepare himself for the act. When she confronted him, he said he was going to try to improve, but a month passed and he was caught again looking at other womens pic. He said to her that his psychologist told him he wasnt hurting anyone by doing this, as it wasnt cheating.
He said he wanted to do a clean slate, try from the begining again and she also said she had something to confess. A year after the wedding, she took some singing lessons (she sings preety well) and there was a classmate that didnt gave a fuck she was married, she hadnt had sex in months, found someone who was agresive in his aproach, lusted for her and caved in. She told me about the guy when this happened, but she lied to me and said that "it took a lot of willpower and self restraint not to cheat".
Now, here is the problem:
I never expected her to dump her BF/husband for me because that is a recipe for failure and being replaced on the same way the previous guy was. And while I stated I was interested I never pushed to far because of her morals (christian practicing woman who believed in marriage and loyalty AFAIK then). I have to admit than I if she dumped him I would have taken my chance because she is everything I want in a woman (except for the cheating part), she actually raised the standard of what I would like in a long term partner.
But it really pissed me off than the moment she decides to take the risk to set her life on fire, she does it with a random guy, and that the excuse she gave me is that she valued our friendship and would have caused her a lot of pain if her husband found out and she couldnt see me again, she didnt sleep with me because she values me. What kind of twisted, emotionally manipulative way ot thinking is that???. I didnt confront her that exact moment and emotionally dissociated because at the time we were having a coffee previous to a theater function she gifted the ticket to me for my birthday (we give eachother nice gifts), it was not the time nor the place.*
I honestly feel used for the validation her husband didnt gave her for years, and a part of me wants to tell her to fuck off and never talk to her again. Another part of me sees a great friend in her, and it would hurt me dearly not having her in my life. This confession changed the way I see her, there is no going back from that. I can accept being second to her husband, but not to a random stranger (one who didnt gave a fuck about her values and pushed until he got into her pants).
I have to be honest too, and in these eight years my dating life was a dissaster, I never dated much, I tried for a month or two, then dropped the towel for months on a never ending cycle with longer hiatus each time. Dating allmost always lead nowhere for me, I only had sex with two women in all that time, I would have loved a LTR but it never happened for me. So, having someone that found me atractive as a person and as a man made me feel a bit valued.
TLDR: I have feelings for a married friend, she said she is atracted to me too. It never lead somewhere because we both knew our place. She cheated on her husband with a random guy and told me she didnt cheat on him with me because she values me.
EDIT: added a bit of info* and typos, syntax.

ok now hear me out. although he can seem a bit satanic at times, always being cruel and heartless to the one and only, he's a really important character in terms of bringing out the comedic value in certain scenes.
for example, (2nd pic) his exaggerated behaviour of always being an ass to yotsuba and always wanting to be right, gives koiwai (her dad, i forgot his first name) and jumbo a chance to shit on him by siding with yotsuba. and to us:
yanda bad-> yanda getting bullied-> readers happy (because yotsuba is happy)
and its really nice to have a contrasting character, when all the others are nice, wholesome, unbelievably patient (cuz oh my god the scene where a gazillion cicadas were unleashed into the mum's house, if i were her i would not be as calm and seemingly chill).
moreover, (3rd pic) yanda's whole... being, in general, (like him just being himself) often evokes very strong reactions from all other characters, because of how strong his personality is, in a subtle way. he is an ass, yotsuba gets scared/upset, jumbo & daddy/koiwai add on to defend yotsuba and bully yanda-- all that beautifully show off the layers of their different dynamics working together (and how they clash, but are able to resolve it in the end), where 'we all have one mutual enemy', strengthening the bond between the readers and yotsuba. (because the more you hate yanda, the more you'll love yotsuba!! hes like the opposing force to push you towards yotsuba's side each and every time, since he is the face of evil and obviously you'd rather fight for our sweet yotsuba chan than an evil monster.)
thank you for coming to my tedtalk. if you couldnt tell, i study literature.

Gday team. I have a note I add to when I learn things about SM. I got sick of seeing the same questions so I every time I answered I added to the note and just pasted a generic reply. I’ve been invited to post it here, so here you are!
Here’s my ever-growing, non-specific copy-paste reply, built from my own notes:

• Remember, followers are only for your ego. If you’re a business, Would you rather have a million followers who never buy anything or 1000 followers who purchase everything? (Read Kevin Kelly’s 1000 true fans article). However, if you’re trying to build an account for a brand or human deals, you need as many as possible. I.e. athletes wanting future deals/contracts, actresses wanting future roles, etc
  
• Dollars are the only score that matters in business. You can sell 1 million $1 items or 1x $1m item, it’s still a million dollars
  
• How do you get your first ten followers/sales? ASK. Start with your friends/family/personal socials. “Hey, I've started this thing; I'd love for you to follow”. Then contact everyone you've ever known (see cold outreach later, but this is warm haha). THEN ask them all for referrals: “who do you know that could use my help?”
  
• Re: cold contacting. Have a framework, but don't automate. Solve their problems. Say something personal (” [mutual person] told me to reach out to you” / “I really like your x” /”congratulations on y”). I noticed that [problem]. Fix their problem. Wish them a nice day. Have an offer in your email signature.
  
• Your profile description should be a hook/tagline / USP and link to your offer. Remember you’re building your house on rented land if you use socials as your client base. Algorithm changes, and they’re gone. Try sending them off socials to your email list, learn storytelling in email marketing (Russell Brunson has good advice), and you will own that contact for life.
  
• Choose a monetisable niche, find the most successful person in that niche, and put your spin on what they’re doing (ask AI)
  
• Make GOOD content that is visually appealing, entertaining, and has hooks (you have 3 seconds to get attention), but most importantly, ADDS VALUE to your target market (ask AI for suggestions - you can even ask AI to create a customer avatar for you and then ask it how to make good, relevant IG posts for that avatar)
  
• Keep your ears and eyes out for trends. Can you throw a trending song over a clip?
  
• Leverage pop culture. Search for what’s trending daily. Can you combine a movie or album release with your product? For example, if you’re in the auto niche, create an image of a car covered in green slime coinciding with the new Ghostbusters movie
  
• Document your process. Humans evolved on stories & we love to feel part of something and/or have front-row tickets to the show. For example, If you post art, film yourself making the art, not just the final product; talk about your decisions along the way. Also, it is easy content for you, and you’re just filming something you’re already doing
  
• Share as many success stories/testimonials as possible, preferably videos. Tag them. Make it easy for users to share themselves.
  
• In a similar vein, and with permission, share your audience questions in your stories (and tag them)
  
• Remember the rule of 100 (you need to do something 100x before you get “good” at it). Have you posted 100x and made changes as you’ve observed what worked and what didn’t?
  
• Every 5th or so post, add a Call To Action
  
• Always have something to invite people to, such as an event (e.g. Facebook live, face-to-face), a giveaway, a new product, etc. Ensure all your social media banners, popups, CTAs & email sig reflect this (read Book Yourself Solid by Michael Port)
  
• Use the right hashtags (be discoverable)
  
• Post at the correct times for your target market (I like 6-630am so when they wake up and scroll, it’s on their feed, their lunch break and a story at 8 pm in the relevant timezone). Steven Bartlett credits the daily 8pm personal thought post the most important part of his success.
  
• Follow the top 100 people in your niche with between 10k & 100k followers. Engage with them daily. Share their posts. Comment on Their work. As always, be sincere and say something meaningful
  
• Comment relevant things on important people pages (Gary Vees $1.80 strategy)
  
• Spend $10 a day on ads of targeted content to targeted people (don’t “but I want to grow organically” - Do you want to be seen or not?). Start ad sets at midnight.
  
• Russell Brunson recommends ads are only for offers; posts that aren't offers aren’t to be paid for ads—two separate things. Ads get your customers into the funnel and upsell makes you a profit. Say you sell a $10 ebook and a $300 course. Spend $10 per click for the ebook, so it’s a break-even cost, and everyone who buys the upsell is pure profit. Ad budget for testing is the price/profit of ONE upsell, so $300 in this example. Then, reassess, test and adjust. If it’s working, keep it going, but also test variations regardless. Brendan Kane suggests 50-100 variations from memory. Again, get AI to help. Start with your headline. Ask for ten variations. Then your pic. Get ten variations. Then your hook. Get ten variations etc.
  
• Pay relevant influencers to share your stuff
  
• Read all of Gary Vees and Brendan Kane’s books
  
• Do these things 30-50x a day (Gary Vees' advice for new accounts, search for his eight tips 2024 YT vid) across all your platforms for months, maybe years, and you’ll grow. Perhaps someone famous will share your stuff, and you’ll go viral. But remember, each platform has its nuances, so you need to rework content for it (again, use AI - create one piece and ask AI to brainstorm how to recreate for each platform - you can start with the longest form, say a YouTube vid or blog post and ask it how to make tweets or IG posts from it) however you can still “push”. For example, you can post native Facebook content, but you can also put your YouTube vids and IG posts there
  
• Make at least three posts a day for a month, that's 90 posts, and report back what you learned, what worked and didn’t for everyone else’s benefit. *I've had some pushback on this: A) I don’t make the rules; this seems to be current best practice; B) 1st post = a BTS post of you developing the post, 2nd post = the post, 3rd post = a story summing up your day. OR make all your content in one day and schedule it to post throughout the week. If you don’t have money, you have time; if you have money, outsource it.
  
• Good luck!
  

I am not The OOP, OOP is u/lolfuckno.
This post was originally posted to weddingshaming.
There was already a BoRU post by u/autochthonouschimera, which didn't include the last update yet.
TRIGGER WARNING: cheating, child neglect, extreme entitledness, talk of abortion
MOOD SPOILERS: infuriating, confusing, frustrating
The new update at the bottom of this post has been marked with --- ---
EDIT/DISCLAIMER: FFS FOLLOW THE NO BRIGADING RULE = DO NOT COMMENT ON THE ORIGINAL POSTS LINKED IN BoRUs!! THIS OFC ALSO INCLUDES NOT TEXTING THE OOP DIRECTLY, NOT REPORTING THEM TO SUBS LIKE care AND NOT INCLUDING THEM IN THREADS AND DISCUSSIONS!! LEAVE THEM ALONE, THIS SUB IS MADE TO LURK AND GET SOME SPICY STORIES WITH CLOSURE, NOT TO HARRASS PEOPLE WHO ALREADY GOT ALOT OF INPUT THROUGH DIFFERENT SUBs!!
Original story was posted on December 7, 2021
Okay, so this girl I know from high school is getting married. We're both 22, for reference. In our senior year of high school she got pregnant, with baby daddy A who will be referred to as Adam. Her super conservative parents kicked her out and she ended up moving in with a friend's family. She barely graduated high school. The only reason she did were because of the generosity and support of our teachers and students who volunteered to help her, which is how we met. We were in the same law class in the morning and she had the worst morning sickness that really affected her ability to be in class. So, I took extra notes for her, tutored her, and brought her her stuff if she hadn't come back by the bell. I wasn't the only one who did stuff like this for her and I know she really appreciates all the assistance we gave her. She had the baby a month after we graduated.
She'd signed up for a 911 dispatcher course for after high school because where we live it's a good steady job, with opportunity for certificates and promotions. But she didn't realize how intensive the course would be and had to drop out. She started working at a grocery store bakery, just until she had a better plan. Adam started an apprenticeship while working part time at a hockey rink, and proposed to her literally the day of her eighteenth birthday, and brought up marriage because "it's the right thing to do" (I don't really agree with that but this isn't about me) and she was always refusing.
She started cheating on him after a while (we're all 19 now), and eventually leaves him for another guy because... She's pregnant again and it is far more likely that this guy, baby daddy B who will be referred to as Brad, is the father of the child. Neither of them can afford lawyers so getting any kind of custody agreement is a mess, and then their parents got involved and they did 50/50 split (still not made official). She has the baby, that does turn out to be Brad's, and everything is okay for about nine months, when she finds out Brad has been cheating on her with his TA. Brad decides to pay child support but doesn't really want contact with the kid, only around holidays and one weekend a month for his parents' sake.
She moves back in with her parents (we're all 20 now) who only accept her back because there's grandchildren around. On the plus side, (when she's 21) she gets to take that year long dispatcher course, and passes with flying colours!
After working as a dispatcher for a year (we're all 22 now) she meets a police officer we'll call Chad, who's 26 and married... And Adam's second (?) cousin (I can't remember how they're related, just that Adam and Chad are related somewhat distantly). She has an affair with him (infidelity is super common among cops apparently). She gets knocked up, his wife divorces him, Chad proposes because "it's the right thing to do", she accepts, and her parents kick her out again for being a [insert expletive here], she moves in with Chad with her two kids. They've started planning the wedding, which... Given the background is something akin to a dumpster fire. Adam is LIVID. He was desperately in love with this girl and hasn't really recovered from what she did to him, and while she rejected his proposals years ago, she's accepted one FROM HIS COUSIN WHO PROPSED FOR THE SAME REASON HE DID.
Adam has basically made a call for loyalty in the family, dividing everyone one who should go, who should give money, etc plus they're having trouble planning anything because of COVID. Her parents have outright said that they're not going, along with half of her family, and her younger sister has been going around and sabotaging what plans they can make.
She has asked me to be a bridesmaid, I said that I couldn't because I live in a different province now, but the truth is, I do not want to be wrapped up in that clusterfuck in any way . I'm just watching the arguments and events unfold on social media because this is quite honestly the most entertaining thing I've seen all year. It's weird to me that she even asked because we're not friends, we never have been. We were friendly strangers in high school, I just helped her out for one class because she needed help and I could give it to her. I was just being nice. But based on how she turned out I'm just sad for her. Three kids in four years, and she's alienated so much of her friends and family because if her actions, and I'm torn between feeling sorry for her and putting my head in my hands.
EDIT 1:
First off, all of your comments are hilarious. Second, I'm going to answer some of the common questions.
We're from a city with over 400,000 thousand people, she just comes from the neighbourhood that is made of either bible thumpers or white trash, with no in between. But the high school we went to was in a completely different neighbourhood than that.
Our school had a pretty good sex Ed course, and they gave out free condoms and had resources to help girls get birth control, and they had programs in place for if students ever got pregnant/were going to be teen parents (they also had one of those classes with the dolls for girls who were high risk at teen pregnancy but she wasn't high risk so she wasn't in that class) I don't if BC just didn't work for her, or if she never tried it.
She started alienating her friends after the affair with Chad came out, because people weren't exactly jumping for joy that she'd broken up a marriage (Chad and his ex didn't have any kids, thankfully, so there were less obstacles). When people weren't immediately ecstatic for her she started getting very snippy, rude, and was "calling the bitches out" on social media for not supporting her new relationship or pregnancy. (Tbh I'm really worried about her health because having this many babies so close together is just not good for her health, mental or physical.) People are also worried that Chad will cheat on her "if he'll cheat with you, he'll cheat on you" and think she should avoid marrying him so that she can just leave him if it happens.
I'll give you updates as they come out, but so far it's just a lot of yelling on social media (mostly from her), some relatives slut shaming her, and people who are just really worried about her because, as funny as this is, this doesn't seem like healthy behaviour.
EDIT 2:
First off, I realized I never gave this girl a name. For the sake of clarity we'll call her Beth. I realize that I didn't mention this before, but all of these are fake names.
Second, to everyone commenting that Chad is at fault for his marriage breaking up, believe me I'm well aware of that. It is his ex wife and her family/friends who solely blame Beth. Chad is also older than her and has more life experience, so I do believe that he could potentially be taking advantage of her naivete. However, she is also an adult who is capable of making her own decisions and has chosen to make poor ones in the past.
Third, people who are upset that I'm posting this story here, claiming I'm humiliating her. She has been posting about this mess on every social media platform she has since they got engaged in July. She put this out there long before I did except she did so in front of friends, family, employers, and coworkers, as well as internet randos.
Fourth, despite getting engaged in July and attempting to start planning then, I was only asked to be a bridesmaid three days ago. I knew that there was a mess going on but I didn't really pay attention to it until she asked me to be a bridesmaid. I tried to ask what was going on, I said that she should talk to someone, but when she completely brushed me off I checked her FB and Instagram and found out about all of... This.
Fifth, I realized that I didn't really talk about how disastrous the wedding planning has been going, see here you go:

• they've had to rebook three times because venues and vendors kept cancelling when infection numbers got worse even thought their wedding was months away
• Beth has been flipping between having the wedding while she's pregnant saying she's proud of her bump, and wanting to wait until they're born because she feels fat, which is unfortunate because she's been breaking down due her insecurity on a public platform
• Beth is currently seven months pregnant
• Beth's great aunt was going to give her her wedding dress to wear (after she gives birth) but Beth's mom freaked and stole the dress from said aunt before Beth could get it and is now keeping it, the great aunt says she's too old to get in a fight and has shrugged it off
• Chad's immediate family is paying for the wedding and has been cut off by the rest of their extended family for 'choosing Chad'
• Beth's wedding colours are pink and green, which is usually a nice combo but the specific shades don't go great together, they're her and Chad's favourite colours, which is fine but she literally made a video talking about these colours for 14 minutes on her insta and both of her kids are just full on bawling in the background and she's ignoring them and she's gotten some flack for that
• Adam is finally settled into his trade and has now hired a lawyer and is trying to get primary custody and not allow his daughter to go to the wedding
• she's planning a zoom baby showebachelorette party and has sent out a registry and she's asking for crazy expensive things
• she's also set up a go fund me to help pay for a honeymoon and is making a lot of posts about how no one loves her cause the fund only has $1267 of the $20k she wanted

I'll update when I can but I'm still in school and while I do want to help her, she's refused help offered in the past and there's only so much of this I can take mentally right now.
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UPDATE:
Hey everyone, so some stuff has gone down, and it doesn't look like it's over yet. Sorry, I didn't update sooner, but Rona came back with a vengeance and totally messed up plans with uni and family. Anyway, onto the update.
From the last update - 16th - Lots of ranting and chaotic wedding planning on social media, she found a dress and has decided she will get married while pregnant, they found a local wedding venue that is very lovely, but I'm shocked she's still trying to book stuff with all of their previous venue cancellations.
December 16th - Her little sister unblocked her to call her a s*ut and tell her that all her wedding plans were stupid. This resulted in a petty and entertaining facebook war until the little sis blocked her again on the 17th.
December 18th - Beth went nuts on social media because Adam had "kidnapped" their daughter, what really happened is that because courts are moving at a snail's pace due to COVID and Adam had reason to believe that their daughter was not safe living with Beth he decided to just... Not give her back. They don't have a custody agreement, and when Beth tried to call the cops they couldn't do anything because he was kinda right. There were dozens of videos on her various social media accounts of her ignoring their daughter, yelling at her daughter for crying or doing other things that toddlers do, it turns out that everything she needed was bought by Adam, food, diapers, clothes, toys, daycare (while it was open) etc. on top of the unofficial child support he was paying every month (which turned out to be $500 a month, a number I find ridiculous because Adam was already paying for literally everything) because she refused to buy anything for her daughter and insisted it was Adam's responsibility. Additionally, after the immediate post-birth appointments, Beth never took baby A to a doctor's appointment, she always deferred that to Adam. Baby A's pediatrician has NEVER met Beth. Beth even tried to get Chad to push back or intimidate him or something, but the local police where we live are under one hell of a microscope after a bunch of dirty cops got busted a couple of years ago. Basically, the cops, and the social worker they ended up calling, ended up saying there was nothing she could do until they get to court. The social worker tried to get her to go to therapy and parenting classes, but Beth refused and went on a fifteen paragraph long rant on Facebook about how she doesn't need parenting classes or therapy (she really, really does though) and called the social worker some choice words.
December 19-24 - Just a bunch of ranting on social media, calling everyone who doesn't enable or justify her behaviour cuss words, slurs, and a whole bunch of other horribly creative things. Also, both she and Chad are under investigation at work now, but she has no idea why. I'm gonna take this time to remind everyone that 99% of this info is coming from her public social media pages where her coworkers are friends and place of employment is listed.
December 25 - I am officially embarrassed to know this woman. I didn't go on her FB page until the evening cause I didn't want to deal with drama, first thing in the morning, on Xmas. In the morning she put on a very beautiful blue maternity dress, got Chad in his police blues, and baby B in a purple romper, and then live-streamed her and her family going to the courthouse to get married on Christmas day. (According to her Twitter, part of this was because their newest venue cancelled on them after COVID numbers spiked) Overall, a pretty tacky thing in my opinion because she stated plain as day, several times, that she intended her wedding anniversary to eclipse Christmas for her children because it's just "so much more special, you know?" (I am so glad that Baby B's grandparents are filing for guardianship) But here's the thing... The courthouse isn't open. Because of COVID for one thing, but also because it's Xmas and Canada has a predominantly Christian history. She proceeded to have a full meltdown, and when Baby B cried because, y'know, the kid's mom was screaming up a storm and scaring her, Beth called her a c*nt. Yup. So done with this bitch.
December 28 - I ran into her at a vaccine clinic cause we were both getting our booster shots. She didn't recognize me at first but one of my old bosses (cause I used to work at the hospital the vaccine clinic was in) called my name and said hi, so she came up to me after my old boss had left. We talked a bit while we sat down for the mandatory waiting period after getting the shot. She asked how I was but didn't even wait for me to respond before she started ranting and complaining about her life. I was just going to sit there until the time was up and then just politely make my exit, but when she started talking shit about her kids something inside me snapped. I just said "Do you even like your kids? Do you like being a mom?" She got pretty quiet for a second and then said "no". Idk, her voice and demeanour completely changed and we just sat in silence until our time was up. I said goodbye but it was really awkward.
December 31st (today) - I just looked at her feed and, this is such a shocking what-the-actual-f*** moment. She's thinking about giving up her kids. She went on about how recently she was asked if she liked her kids or being a mom, and how she realized that she didn't. She hates her children and blames them for ruining her life, and how she doesn't want to be a mom. I mean, nothing is official yet, but what the hell?!
I'll update as stuff happens now that I have the time, but this whole thing has been a big giant mess. Also, sorry for any formatting or grammatical errors, I'm not used to using Reddit on my PC.
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UPDATE
Okay, so, some stuff has happened and most of it's good? Also, the TL:DR for this update will be at the bottom
Jan 4th - Beth (and Chad) stopped posting on all social media. I was actually a little worried she died, I mean this woman posts everything short of her trips to the bathroom on IG.
Oddly enough, this got people messaging or interacting with her social media pages because she was usually the one to start contact, and that contact was usually yelling. No one heard from them and some people started to be like "should we call the cops for a wellness check?" Until Chad posted a status saying that they're fine but are "busy, please stop trying to contact us right now". Everyone listened but it was weird.
Jan 11 - I got a notification that Beth and Chad are active on social media again, but I didn't feel like drama so I didn't check out any of their posts.
Jan 12 (today) - she messaged me on FB asking me to be her MOH. She also kept going on about the resort in Cancun that she and Chad were looking to have their wedding at... This coming February. Omnicrom is really bad where we are, so no one should be travelling anywhere. I've actually had to delay my trip back to the province where I go to university. No one should be travelling anywhere.
Beth also found out that Chad was cheating on her with one of her co-workers and called the woman a "homewrecker" on FB tagged her, and posted the texts she found on Chad's phone. But Chad is the "love of her life" so she's forgiven him, but not the other woman. Which I find very hypocritical, considering how she and Chad got together.
She also sent pics of possible bridesmaid dresses and they are the most hideous dresses I've ever seen. I know that some brides do that thing where they want to look a million times better by comparison but this was just ridiculous. One of them looked like a partially deflated balloon with feathers strapped to it. She also openly admitted that she expected everyone attending to pay 3k, 2k would go towards that guest's stay at the resort and 1k would go to her and Chad and they will expected wedding gifts, so that they could get their room for free. Apparently, she talked to someone at the resort and if she got enough people to book their rooms she and Chad would get theirs for free. She also wanted the money to be given to her instead of directly to the hotel so that people wouldn't realize that she was taking 1k of their money. Beth sent me a pic of the wedding dress she wanted, and it's definitely a clubbing dress. If that's what she wants that's fine (and for the record I do think she would look great in it, Beth's (current) dream wedding dress ) but she wants all the guests to be dressed black tie. And she's already sent a list of unreasonable requests. Such as;

• all women must wear heels (for a wedding in the beach???)
• no one is allowed to have a baby or be pregnant (really?)
• girls must have longer than shoulder length hair, boys must have very short hair, only and inch or two long
• no one is allowed to be skinnier than her
• she will be providing diets for everyone attending based on how she wants us to look
• she and Chad must get bachelor and bachelorette parties both in Canada and in Mexico that need to be "fit for a king and queen" and both must be paid for but anyone but the bride and groom "cause that's just tacky"
• no unnatural hair
• no tattoos (you have five tattoos, Beth, and in the dress you want all will be on full display)
• no one is allowed to talk to her directly, they must speak through the MOH and BM

Honestly there's a lot more but I didn't feel like typing all that out. She's posted the list on FB and IG and people are already calling her a bridezilla.
I was also just kinda weirded out because aside from the previous convo at the hospital and when she originally asked me to be a bridesmaid, we haven't spoken since high school. So I respectfully declined, stating that the virus and school were my top concerns right now. Then, I decided to check her socials to see if she'd posted anything. She had and everything was basically how it was before the hiatus... Except her kids are nowhere to be found. No "look at my cute baby" pics are kids crying in the background of her videos. Nothing. Though, based on her new pics of herself, she's given birth to baby C. I mean, she's definitely still recovering, but she also definitely had a baby and that baby is not on any of her socials, so when she responded to my decline with an attempt at guilting me to be her MOH, I asked her where her kids were. This was her response.
"Oh, I left them at the side of the road in our way home from the hospital those moochers could walk home lol"
I was like, please tell me you're not being serious (especially cause it looks like she had the baby days ago). And she replied "I was just joking you shouldn't be so serious all the time". Honey, you made a joke about child abandonment/abuse, you're not being serious enough. And then I finally got the update on the kids.

• Baby A is still with Adam, Beth signed away her rights
• Baby B and Baby C have been given to a mutual cousin of Adam and Chad who is infertile (tbh I didn't need that last tidbit of info or the three paragraph long rant about how God hates infertile women, I didn't even read all of it, I couldn't, and I didn't think that Beth could be so cruel to even think those things). I checked out the FB page of Baby B's grandparents and they're happy with their grandchild's new parents, it looks like the cousin and her husband and welcoming them to the family as another set of grandparents and will let them have access to B. So yay!
• One thing I do need to stress though is that because of COVID the courts in our areas are either moving at a snail's pace or closed, so none of this is "official" but Beth (and Chad) has signed paperwork and all that needs to happen now is presenting that to a judge.

And when I rejoined our convo she said the doc she had for baby C gave her brith control, and she was surprised cause after her first pregnancy she asked her doctor for it but he refused to give her any. She mentioned that her old doctor was also her mom's and sister's doctor, she ended up asking the doc who delivered baby C to be her new doctor, so I hope that works out.
After learning all this my convo with Beth started to go down hill...
Beth: wait, did you actually think I would just leave my kids at the side of the road! I just didn't want to be a mom, but I wasn't a bad one
Me: Beth, I think that you've been through a lot of trauma in the past few years, and that it's gotten to you mentally and that you should speak to a professional.
(Of course, Beth has been a bad mom, but she does need mental health help and I wasn't going to convince her to get it, or to not tell at me, if I said that )
Beth: what? You think I'm crazy?!
Me: no. I think that getting kicked out as a teen because of a pregnancy and having your family actively reject you and try to sabotage you must have been very painful. Plus, pregnancy puts a lot of mental stress on women and you've had three in such a short time span, I just want you to take care of yourself and get what you want in life, and I think that will start with you taking care of your mental health.
Beth: what I want... IS FOR YOU TO GO STRAIGHT TO HELL! Beth then calls me every cuss word, expletive, and derogatory word she can think of one of the words she called me was a derogatory word about people from my ethnicity and my blood is boiling that she thought it was okay to say that to me.
So, I'm now on her hit list. She's been blowing up my social media all day, on her last FB post where she called me a slur she said that she still expects a good wedding gift from me. Yeah, no. So I've blocked her on everything, and I've decided to completely cut off contact. This will be my last update.
TL:DR - Beth went on a social media blackout for a bit, had baby C. Gave up all her kids, baby A is still with Adam, Baby B and Baby C are with a mutual cousin of Adam and Chad and baby B's grandparents have access. Chad cheated on her and she forgave him, but she probably shouldn't have. She's decided to have her wedding in a little over a month in Cancun and is expecting unreasonable things of everyone already. She asked me to be MOH I respectfully declined. I also suggested that she talk to a mental health professional because she's been through a lot in the last few years and she cussed me out, she also called me a derogatory name directed at people of my ethnicity and that was the final nail in the coffin. I'm now on her hit list. But her kids are safe and I have no interest in going to wedding so I'm cutting contact completely and have already blocked her on all my socials. I'm refusing to be involved with her anymore and will not be updating on the situation.
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--- EDIT - NEW UPDATE --- - JANUARY 25, 2023 - TL:DR AT THE BOTTOM
Hi, everyone, I didn't think I would be making another update, but here I am. I don't know if anyone will even care but whatever. I saw a YouTuber, Charlotte Dobre, do an entire video about this post on Facebook (which was funny, she did it well), [editor's note: here's the video in question and also: check out Charlotte Dobre's subreddit !] and got so nervous that Beth was gonna see it. Turned out, she's seen it and does not give a single damn, because as I pointed out, the majority of the info in this post came from her public social media. She also doesn't know who posted it (more on that in the update). I am still no contact with Beth and have no plans to change that anytime soon, but we have mutual friends who have told and shown me what's happened.
First things first, she and Chad did get married, but they eloped. According to all sources they are completely and utterly miserable though. Chad has proven to be and overall lazy and unfaithful husband, and Beth has really gotten into feminism (with a focus on reproductive issues) after she started using birth control, and Roe v Wade getting overturned (even though we're in Canada) really caused tension in their marriage. As it turns out, Chad thinks that abortion is murder and God created women for the purpose of making babies.
Beth tried to argue that not all women want or should be mothers using herself as an example, and then Chad went ahead and used her as an example of why women should be forced to have kids, because in the end she gave kids to an infertile couple. She didn't take that well and said that her entire life and future was ripped away from her and destroyed the second she got pregnant with baby A. Adam was never slut shamed or demeaned like she was, both at home and at school (which is a fair point, myself and many others were helpful and supportive but there were a lot of people who judged the hell out of her and said really nasty stuff) and that if she hadn't gotten pregnant she would've gone to college or university because she lost the general and financial support of her family with that positive pregnancy test. Chad has made a Tinder account. Beth was informed but it doesn't seem like she gave a damn.
So basically you could cut the tension with a knife.
And with her family, her sister came out as gay and cut off/has been cut off from their parents. But she's got a partial scholarship so she's doing okay. She and Beth are NOT on good terms but have met up and acknowledged that their parents messed them up by being religious nuts and their parents encouraged them to be competitive with each other and sabotage each other. Apparently their dad's motto is "competition brings out the best in everyone" (ugh). But they've talked and that's good enough for now.
Neither Beth nor Chad have custody or visitation of their children, which Chad is starting to regret because he's suddenly getting more and more into the church and religion. Chad talked to Beth about getting baby C back but Beth shut that down hard and warned the cousin who adopted baby C (officially and legally btw).
Beth started going to therapy after she and Chad got married, which makes me very happy and excited for her.
There was a rumour going around that Chad has a mistress and it took me a while to confirm, but it's true. He's cheating on her with a paramedic and she knows. Beth is fully aware. Idk if she plans to do anything about it or just continue to ignore it, but I hope she leaves his ass. I'm still not gonna talk to her, she crossed so many lines, but she's grown and improved a lot and her life would be a lot better without that sac of scum in her life.
Now, I have given a few details in my post that should've revealed my identity to her, namely her asking me to be her MOH. I have found out that she actually asked around 15 girls (including myself) to be her MOH, without telling any of us about the others because she was trying to get money from all of us and because her mental health has just been very bad and she needed help. And of those 15, 8 have been going to school out of province and of those eight we all had basically the same classes in high school. And apparently doesn't remember our discussion at the vaccination clinic and had major blow up with everyone she asked to be MOH. So she knows it's one of 8 people and reportedly has no interest in trying to narrow that number down. (Chad did the same thing with his groomsmen, but idk any of the numbers)
TL:DR Beth and Chad got married (eloped), are miserable, have zero custody or visitation with any of their children, Chad's cheating and Beth doesn't appear to care, Chad is super sexist, Beth is a feminist now, Beth's sister is gay and they've talked but not reconciled, Beth asked too many girls to be MOH for money and doesn't know the ID of who made this post.
Dear "Beth", if this post gets forwarded to you or somehow graces your phone screen, leave Chad. He's trash and you'll be much better without him in your life. And though I'm not willing to talk to you again because of your words and actions, I do wish for you to have a wonderful and happy life.
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I'm not the OOP!

I am NOT the Original Poster. That is u/Substantial-Fox-4386. She posted in AITAH.
This is a long post. Thanks to both u/Direct-Caterpillar77 and u/BakingGiraffeBakes for the recommendation!

A reminder this sub has a 7 day waiting period, ergo the latest update is 7 days old.

Trigger Warnings: sexual harassment; prescription medication addiction; accusations of infidelity
Mood Spoiler: the pot is stirred- dramatic
Mood Spoiler 2: I labeled this as "lol wtf" in my spreadsheet
Original Post: April 29, 2024
For context, I (31F) have been with my husband Jay (34M) for 10 years. We met through mutual friends, began dating shortly after, and became engaged after being together for about 2 years. We aren't legally married yet, as we both agreed we wanted an all-out wedding and to travel for our honeymoon, but that ish is expensive, and we wanted to prioritize spending our money on things like our house, our vehicles, medical, and so on. We bought each other matching rings that we wear as if we are married, refer to each other as husband and wife, and present as married socially, we just haven't actually had a wedding. Our families understand this, and since we are both children of divorce, our parents were fine with us not wanting to get married, since their opinion of marriage was somewhat skewed to put it politely. Most of our friends also don't comment on our lack of being officially married, as they either don't care, agree with our logic that there are more important things to spend money on, or are the sort of people who think the point of a legal marriage isn't as necessary as it has been in the past.
Then there's Tricia (28F). I met Tricia through an old job and we got along really well. We enjoyed the same music, food, and had similar opinions on things like movies, books, and clothes. Tricia is a lovely person, and I do genuinely enjoy her friendship, but she occasionally goes through these odd phases where she analyzes the behavior of the men in our social circle. She will present her "theories" to us ladies based on things like social media posts, "odd behaviors" she says she noticed during group barbecues or beach trips, things like that. While I have no problem calling out potential shitty behavior in a friend, the things she deems "suspicious" don't really hold water in my opinion. For example, she's never quite let go of considering a male friend gay, and her "evidence" is that he's a bit of a perpetual bachelor. According to him, his bachelor status is because he's holding out for a girl who doesn't mind his transient lifestyle as a man who has to travel a lot for work and would want to join him rather than wait around at home, but according to Tricia, he must be having gay dalliances across the country and refuses to tell us, even though many in our friend group are gay, out of the closet, and even bring their partners to social events.
Then there's my sweet Jay. Jay has never been a very physically affectionate person, and he is likely autistic, but isn't interested in having a formal diagnosis. He took the RAADS-R (a test to screen for autism in undiagnosed adults) about 4 years ago when he was seeking treatment for chronic migraines, and the results suggested strongly that he may be autistic. Once he got those results back, he sort of got over the idea of "wanting answers" for some of his mental health questions, preferring to just go to therapy and work on finding a good treatment for his migraines. According to him, the RAADS-R was "good enough to solve the mystery" and provided some closure for him. I didn't press the issue, as the idea of getting on his case about a diagnosis he didn't feel he needed seemed unnecessarily harsh to me.
On top of that, Jay loves fishing. When you put these two facts together, hopefully a picture gets painted for you, but I'll clarify anyway. He knows all about the different types of aquatic environments in our area that you can legally fish, when all the different spawning seasons are, what every species eats, how they hunt, and he can even tell what sort of fish is on his hook based on how it feels when he's pulling them in. He can look at a body of water and instantly tell you if fishing will be good that day, and he has never been wrong; it's like living with a fish-based psychic! Since I am an avid lover of seafood, his fishing and pursuit of fish-centric knowledge has only been a boon to me. I can express interest in wanting a fish dinner on Monday morning, and that night, he will bring home and cook up enough fish for us to eat like royalty. He's even excited to catch fish to make into fertilizer for my new rose bushes, since he feels confident he will be able to pull up the perfect "food" for my new roses.
The "suspicious" activity, according to Tricia, is that he often goes on spur-of-the-moment fishing trips by himself, and can sometimes be gone for hours. He will randomly stand up, say something like "Alright. Fishin' time." and give me a kiss before he hits the road. While I would ordinarily agree that something like that could be suspicious, I know factually that Jay isn't cheating, as he always sends me countless pictures and videos while he's on these trips, as well as calling me on the phone when he's particularly excited about a good catch, how he's trying to get uniquely sneaky fish, a cool bird he saw, things like that. Even if he's gone for 10 hours, my phone will be blowing up for all 10 of those hours with pictures of his sunshine smile next to a fish, or videos of him cheering as he shows me what he's got on the stringer (a long, thin rope used to keep fish alive, but attached to your boat, in the water). I adore these pictures, videos, and phone calls, since they make my heart so full with how much joy he feels and how at peace he is on the water. I would join him more often, but I usually stay home since it wouldn't be fair to our dogs if both of us left for undefined amounts of time on a whim. Instead, I find my peace in watching through his eyes, and when he comes home, I'm always happy to get the play-by-play of how the trip went while Jay prepares the fish for us to eat. We even have a game now where he quizzes me on what types of fish he caught, and if I win, I get a big hug!
None of this is good enough for Tricia. For years now, she has had her suspicions about Jay, but I've always brushed them off as I'm secure in my relationship and trust Jay implicitly. When Tricia first brought her "theory" to me, I brought it up to Jay, who was genuinely hurt and asked if I shared in her suspicions and wanted him to go fishing less. I told him no, but that I felt he deserved to know what Tricia was telling people about him. He understood and was willing to let sleeping dogs lie. Over the years, as Jay and I kept on keepin' on, unmarried and in fishy bliss, Tricia became more and more adamant that not only was Jay cheating, but that the reason we weren't married is that he convinced me to wait for an expensive wedding and he would rather continue on cheating during fake fishing trips. Her "proof" was his random trips, the fact that he doesn't physically touch me "a lot" when we are in public, and how "he never let's me go with him". Countless times, I have shown her the giant folder of fishing pictures and videos in my phone, call logs showing how often we're in communication, and told her that I didn't need to have him grabbing on me or dangling off of me in public to feel secure with him. I've brought up our responsibilities as dog owners to not leave them alone for hours on a whim without the ability to relieve themselves outside. I've even told her multiple times over the years that she's more than welcome to ask Jay if she could tag along on a trip and see for herself how committed he is to fishing, but she always refuses. Again, since Jay has been fine with ignoring the drama, I let it slide, up until about a week ago.
Jay was talking about going on a day-long fishing trip with two of our friends, Vince and Maria (who are married) as they had expressed interest in going and saw the trip as a sort of blend between a staycation and a chartered boat trip. Tricia spoke privately with me, saying that I must be happy that Maria is going, since she will be able to ensure that not only Jay can't cheat on me, but that Vince can't cover for him if he tries to. I'd finally had enough, as now she was dragging poor Vince into this and slandering his character, when all Vince had done is agree to a day trip with an old friend. I told Tricia that she needs to either bring her suspicions directly to Jay and hash it out with him, or let it go, because as far as I'm concerned, she's projecting her issues onto Jay since Tricia can't keep a guy longer than three months. While that assessment isn't entirely true, I wanted to hurt her feelings and cut her down to size, since that's my sweet Jay she's dragging through the mud. Tricia not only took it personally, but said that I was just naive and was afraid to be single. I told Tricia that she was projecting again, since she's a serial dater who scares men off with her wannabe Sherlock Holmes nonsense, and she just can't fathom a man with a real hobby because she only goes after half-baked fake gymbros more interested in their own tits than hers and wannabe finance bros who blow their entire paychecks on crypto.
She stopped talking to me after that, and hasn't reached out to me since. Granted, I haven't reached out to her either, but I'm mad at her, because she was rude. Our friend group doesn't really give this entire situation much weight, saying stuff like "that's just how she is" or "what did you expect" or "we know Jay isn't cheating, but he's an exception to the rule, and maybe Tricia just doesn't see that". While I was willing to stand my ground at first and not budge on the issue, now I'm wondering if maybe I was too harsh and should apologize for being petty just because I wanted to knock her down a peg and get her to give up on her "theories".
TL;DR My female friend is convinced my husband is cheating on me because he fuckin loooooves fishing and goes on day trips frequently, and after years of hearing her doubts and showing proof that he's faithful, I snapped at her, insulted her taste in men, and spoke negatively about her dating history.
AITAH and should I apologize, or do I keep all 10 toes in the ground and let her twist?
Relevant Comments:
Top Commenter: First of all, Jay sounds wonderful. Congrats on snagging him, I smiled reading when you were talking about him, very wholesome. Tricia sucks man. Tricia isn't helping anyone, she's actively hurting people's marriages, relationships and friendships, I'd bail on her asap, idk what you see in a person who has put THAT much time into belittling your wonderful husband. I was also a little irked by people in your group chat saying Jay is the exception... how? You said Tricia is always doing this and she's wrong as fuck. Why are you friends with Tricia is fabricating rumors about your friends being gay and your husband cheating on you... like to the point that you told Jay "this is what she's saying about you to people"...like you know she didn't just say it to you, but everyone, and you're still letting this bitch hang around? Gross.

OOP: Hearing it framed this way is a shock I think I needed. I wanted to get defensive at first, but you have a really solid point. Someone else here asked if maybe Tricia is interested in Jay, and I'm going to dig into that, but now I want to dig into this as well. Thank you for your input, it's put a lot into perspective.

Commenter: Also just food for thought. Are you sure she's not spreading rumours about you behind your back? Anyone willing to talk to you behind someone elses back, is willing to talk about you behind your back

OOP: I'm sure she is at this point. Reading the comments here have changed how I view the entire friend group. I'll be speaking with some mutual friends about what they've heard; it's receipt time.

Commenter: My ex posts pictures of her out on the ice all weekend fishing. I love watching her videos and pictures of giant fish she caught in the middle of the night. I still love my ex, but there is no way I am spending a weekend in a tent on a frozen lake.
If he catches a mermaid, then you might be in trouble.

OOP: I'm going to be honest; if he caught a mermaid, he'd either try to get on NatGeo or some kind of fishing show to contribute to icthyology/marine biology, or try to tag it somehow to study it lol he's a true believer in the betterment of aquatic environments and getting the world excited about fishing

Commenter: Nta. It’s my opinion she is stirring stuff up not because she’s projecting, but because she is sad and lonely and can’t abide the sight of others’ happiness. She wants a friend in misery and needs other people to validate her loneliness.

OOP: Thank you for your words; I'm starting to think she either wants someone else to commiserate with in a way we don't do now or something else more sinister.

Commenter: She sounds like a troublemaker who likes to stir the pot. Not sure why you are still friends with her - she clearly likes causing drama.

OOP: Thank you for your input. Seeing many people say similar things is waking me up to some uncomfortable truths.

(Downvoted) Commenter: ESH, you should apologies for the below the belt comment. i’m not saying that you are wrong but…. you didn’t need to go that far. you can be in the right and still be an asshole.

OOP: Yeah, I'm willing to admit I went too far, and there's no excuse for that. Thanks for being honest with me.

There is no consensus bot on AITAH, but a majority of votes were for NTA
Update Post 1: April 30, 2024 (Next Day)
I wanted to give a small update now before I bring the axe down tonight. This will be shorter, as Jay and I will be going fishing together this afternoon after lunch.
I showed Jay the original thread and we had a heart to heart that lasted until the wee hours of the morning. Firstly, he wanted me to express his appreciation for you all, as well as shoutout his fellow fishing enthusiasts. He encourages you all to get out there and try your best, regardless of your success, and to instead share with him the joy it brings, even if we can't all go fishing together.
After going through all of your beautiful words and generous support, we shared our thoughts on the matter not only as a couple, but as two people with different levels of attachment to the individuals in our friend group. We both agree that we had been holding onto these friendships more out of a sense of nostalgia and a desire to be kind, rather than actually examining what these friends brought to the table and whether or not they enriched our lives. We had been distracted by a desire for community and old bonds, sacrificing our comfort and respect for not only ourselves, but our choice to be together and have a dynamic that some may not view as normal or valid in some capacities. While Jay and I have different views on what certain friends mean to us, we agree that enough is enough, and it's time to not only establish boundaries, but to not give an inch to those who have caused us to come to this, Tricia especially.
That said, Jay is a good man. A strong, whip-smart, generous man, and reading the feedback you all provided made me realize something: I am fucking angry.
I allowed a venomous waste of air around my sweet Jay. My Jay. She slandered him, belittled me, devalued what we have, and I allowed it, like some sort of coward. It's going to end now, and I'm ending it my way. I will not be allowing Tricia to slink away from this or have room to twist words to make me look like anything other that a woman with righteous fury regarding the man she vowed to honor and protect.
I'm sorry to report I will not be taking the high road, nor will I be handling this with tact and decorum. I'm blowing this bitches social life sky fucking high, along with anybody who sides with her. Scorched earth, no prisoners, blood for the blood god.
Update Post 2: May 1, 2024
I'm going to keep this as brief as possible while still covering it, as there is a lot to cover involving about 15 people, and it's still all hitting the fan. Added the NSFW flair as some adult topics will be mentioned below, including potential SA and drug abuse.
During the fishing trip yesterday, I blocked Tricia on everything and reached out to people to say that Jay and I would be distancing ourselves from Tricia, why we were, and shared what "theory" Tricia had about them if there was one, along with any screenshots or evidence I had of Tricia talking about them. I also asked a few friends who might know if Tricia might be interested in Jay, as some people pointed out that that might have been a motivation for her to get between us.
Here's what's been dug up so far:

• Matt (the friend Tricia alleged was gay) confirmed, again, that he isn't gay. He shared a story about how he, his roommate, and Tricia had a get together at one point where they drank and smoked some weed. During the night, Tricia got handsy and tried getting together with Matt's roommate, who declined. When they sobered up the following morning, Tricia said that it should be fine because "men like that sort of thing". After that, Matt and his roommate weren't comfortable with her and effectively barred her from going to their place. Matt suspects this is the origin of the gay rumor, and he's chosen to step away from the social group to reevaluate some things. I didn't want to press him, so I left it there.
• Vince and Maria have gone dark. Maria believed that Tricia was the victim in all of this, and Vince was vague in his responses and seemed to be taking a more hands off approach, but they stopped responding when another friend sent a screenshot of Tricia alluding to them being swingers because they have a decorative pineapple on their kitchen counter. Neither of them have anyone blocked, but no one can get a response out of them, either.
• One friend got into an argument with his girlfriend after said girlfriend went through his phone because of the drama and found either texts or pics (I don't know which) that, according to her, prove that he's been sleeping with Tricia on and off. I heard this from his brother, who reached out after the girlfriend left a voicemail saying she's kicking the friend out, and the brother wanted to know what was going on. I'm not sure exactly what's happening there, as that friend has also gone dark, and none of us know the girlfriend very well/have her phone number.
• One friend came clean about her struggles with prescription pain meds after her mother lost her battle with cancer because Tricia had been trying to blackmail her into getting dirt on Matt, Jay, and Vince and was using the drug abuse as leverage. Admittedly, a lot of my attention got diverted after this came to light because that's a much bigger problem than my beef with Tricia. We are still working on creating a good way for people to be a support system for her moving forward, and that will be what we as a group will focus on from here on out.
• An old friend of Jay's dropped a nuke by revealing that Tricia tried blowing him in the bathroom during a "Friendsgiving Dinner" we had last year, only to turn around and try to blow a different guy in the bathroom after Chris turned her down.

Jay, some other friends, and I created a new Discord server for all of the friends coming out of this drama against Tricia, and so far, it's just been a lot of comparing dates, texts, and Discord DMs, but it looks like Tricia has been trying to either sleep with or break up every guy in the friend group, as well as either get rid of or get leverage on every girl friend in the group.
Either way, we have bigger fish to fry now. It's time to put this all behind us and help our friend who really needs it. Thank you all for your kind words and helpful advice, even the harsh stuff <3

Do NOT comment on Original Posts. See rule 7.

I am not the OOP. The OOP is u/Substantial-Fox-4386 posting in AITAH
Concluded as per OOP
2 updates - Long
Thanks to u/KnightFury077 for suggesting this BORU
Original - 29th April 2024
Update 1 - 30th April 2024
Update 2 - 1st May 2024
​
AITAH for telling a friend that my husband can't be cheating on me, and she's just projecting?
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For context, I (31F) have been with my husband Jay (34M) for 10 years. We met through mutual friends, began dating shortly after, and became engaged after being together for about 2 years. We aren't legally married yet, as we both agreed we wanted an all-out wedding and to travel for our honeymoon, but that ish is expensive, and we wanted to prioritize spending our money on things like our house, our vehicles, medical, and so on.
We bought each other matching rings that we wear as if we are married, refer to each other as husband and wife, and present as married socially, we just haven't actually had a wedding. Our families understand this, and since we are both children of divorce, our parents were fine with us not wanting to get married, since their opinion of marriage was somewhat skewed to put it politely. Most of our friends also don't comment on our lack of being officially married, as they either don't care, agree with our logic that there are more important things to spend money on, or are the sort of people who think the point of a legal marriage isn't as necessary as it has been in the past.
Then there's Tricia (28F). I met Tricia through an old job and we got along really well. We enjoyed the same music, food, and had similar opinions on things like movies, books, and clothes. Tricia is a lovely person, and I do genuinely enjoy her friendship, but she occasionally goes through these odd phases where she analyzes the behavior of the men in our social circle. She will present her "theories" to us ladies based on things like social media posts, "odd behaviors" she says she noticed during group barbecues or beach trips, things like that.
While I have no problem calling out potential shitty behavior in a friend, the things she deems "suspicious" don't really hold water in my opinion. For example, she's never quite let go of considering a male friend gay, and her "evidence" is that he's a bit of a perpetual bachelor. According to him, his bachelor status is because he's holding out for a girl who doesn't mind his transient lifestyle as a man who has to travel a lot for work and would want to join him rather than wait around at home, but according to Tricia, he must be having gay dalliances across the country and refuses to tell us, even though many in our friend group are gay, out of the closet, and even bring their partners to social events.
Then there's my sweet Jay. Jay has never been a very physically affectionate person, and he is likely autistic, but isn't interested in having a formal diagnosis. He took the RAADS-R (a test to screen for autism in undiagnosed adults) about 4 years ago when he was seeking treatment for chronic migraines, and the results suggested strongly that he may be autistic. Once he got those results back, he sort of got over the idea of "wanting answers" for some of his mental health questions, preferring to just go to therapy and work on finding a good treatment for his migraines. According to him, the RAADS-R was "good enough to solve the mystery" and provided some closure for him. I didn't press the issue, as the idea of getting on his case about a diagnosis he didn't feel he needed seemed unnecessarily harsh to me.
On top of that, Jay loves fishing. When you put these two facts together, hopefully a picture gets painted for you, but I'll clarify anyway. He knows all about the different types of aquatic environments in our area that you can legally fish, when all the different spawning seasons are, what every species eats, how they hunt, and he can even tell what sort of fish is on his hook based on how it feels when he's pulling them in.
He can look at a body of water and instantly tell you if fishing will be good that day, and he has never been wrong; it's like living with a fish-based psychic! Since I am an avid lover of seafood, his fishing and pursuit of fish-centric knowledge has only been a boon to me. I can express interest in wanting a fish dinner on Monday morning, and that night, he will bring home and cook up enough fish for us to eat like royalty. He's even excited to catch fish to make into fertilizer for my new rose bushes, since he feels confident he will be able to pull up the perfect "food" for my new roses.
The "suspicious" activity, according to Tricia, is that he often goes on spur-of-the-moment fishing trips by himself, and can sometimes be gone for hours. He will randomly stand up, say something like "Alright. Fishin' time." and give me a kiss before he hits the road. While I would ordinarily agree that something like that could be suspicious, I know factually that Jay isn't cheating, as he always sends me countless pictures and videos while he's on these trips, as well as calling me on the phone when he's particularly excited about a good catch, how he's trying to get uniquely sneaky fish, a cool bird he saw, things like that.
Even if he's gone for 10 hours, my phone will be blowing up for all 10 of those hours with pictures of his sunshine smile next to a fish, or videos of him cheering as he shows me what he's got on the stringer (a long, thin rope used to keep fish alive, but attached to your boat, in the water). I adore these pictures, videos, and phone calls, since they make my heart so full with how much joy he feels and how at peace he is on the water. I would join him more often, but I usually stay home since it wouldn't be fair to our dogs if both of us left for undefined amounts of time on a whim. Instead, I find my peace in watching through his eyes, and when he comes home, I'm always happy to get the play-by-play of how the trip went while Jay prepares the fish for us to eat. We even have a game now where he quizzes me on what types of fish he caught, and if I win, I get a big hug!
None of this is good enough for Tricia. For years now, she has had her suspicions about Jay, but I've always brushed them off as I'm secure in my relationship and trust Jay implicitly. When Tricia first brought her "theory" to me, I brought it up to Jay, who was genuinely hurt and asked if I shared in her suspicions and wanted him to go fishing less. I told him no, but that I felt he deserved to know what Tricia was telling people about him. He understood and was willing to let sleeping dogs lie. Over the years, as Jay and I kept on keepin' on, unmarried and in fishy bliss, Tricia became more and more adamant that not only was Jay cheating, but that the reason we weren't married is that he convinced me to wait for an expensive wedding and he would rather continue on cheating during fake fishing trips.
Her "proof" was his random trips, the fact that he doesn't physically touch me "a lot" when we are in public, and how "he never let's me go with him". Countless times, I have shown her the giant folder of fishing pictures and videos in my phone, call logs showing how often we're in communication, and told her that I didn't need to have him grabbing on me or dangling off of me in public to feel secure with him. I've brought up our responsibilities as dog owners to not leave them alone for hours on a whim without the ability to relieve themselves outside. I've even told her multiple times over the years that she's more than welcome to ask Jay if she could tag along on a trip and see for herself how committed he is to fishing, but she always refuses. Again, since Jay has been fine with ignoring the drama, I let it slide, up until about a week ago.
Jay was talking about going on a day-long fishing trip with two of our friends, Vince and Maria (who are married) as they had expressed interest in going and saw the trip as a sort of blend between a staycation and a chartered boat trip. Tricia spoke privately with me, saying that I must be happy that Maria is going, since she will be able to ensure that not only Jay can't cheat on me, but that Vince can't cover for him if he tries to. I'd finally had enough, as now she was dragging poor Vince into this and slandering his character, when all Vince had done is agree to a day trip with an old friend.
I told Tricia that she needs to either bring her suspicions directly to Jay and hash it out with him, or let it go, because as far as I'm concerned, she's projecting her issues onto Jay since Tricia can't keep a guy longer than three months. While that assessment isn't entirely true, I wanted to hurt her feelings and cut her down to size, since that's my sweet Jay she's dragging through the mud. Tricia not only took it personally, but said that I was just naive and was afraid to be single. I told Tricia that she was projecting again, since she's a serial dater who scares men off with her wannabe Sherlock Holmes nonsense, and she just can't fathom a man with a real hobby because she only goes after half-baked fake gymbros more interested in their own tits than hers and wannabe finance bros who blow their entire paychecks on crypto.
She stopped talking to me after that, and hasn't reached out to me since. Granted, I haven't reached out to her either, but I'm mad at her, because she was rude. Our friend group doesn't really give this entire situation much weight, saying stuff like "that's just how she is" or "what did you expect" or "we know Jay isn't cheating, but he's an exception to the rule, and maybe Tricia just doesn't see that". While I was willing to stand my ground at first and not budge on the issue, now I'm wondering if maybe I was too harsh and should apologize for being petty just because I wanted to knock her down a peg and get her to give up on her "theories".
TL;DR My female friend is convinced my husband is cheating on me because he fuckin loooooves fishing and goes on day trips frequently, and after years of hearing her doubts and showing proof that he's faithful, I snapped at her, insulted her taste in men, and spoke negatively about her dating history.
AITAH and should I apologize, or do I keep all 10 toes in the ground and let her twist?
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Comments
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PolarGCNips
First of all, Jay sounds wonderful. Congrats on snagging him, I smiled reading when you were talking about him, very wholesome. Tricia sucks man. Tricia isn't helping anyone, she's actively hurting people's marriages, relationships and friendships, I'd bail on her asap, idk what you see in a person who has put THAT much time into belittling your wonderful husband. I was also a little irked by people in your group chat saying Jay is the exception... how? You said Tricia is always doing this and she's wrong as fuck. Why are you friends with Tricia is fabricating rumors about your friends being gay and your husband cheating on you... like to the point that you told Jay "this is what she's saying about you to people"...like you know she didn't just say it to you, but everyone, and you're still letting this bitch hang around? Gross.

OOP: Hearing it framed this way is a shock I think I needed. I wanted to get defensive at first, but you have a really solid point. Someone else here asked if maybe Tricia is interested in Jay, and I'm going to dig into that, but now I want to dig into this as well. Thank you for your input, it's put a lot into perspective.

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Scary-Cycle1508
Also just food for thought. Are you sure she's not spreading rumours about you behind your back? Anyone willing to talk to you behind someone elses back, is willing to talk about you behind your back

OOP: I'm sure she is at this point. Reading the comments here have changed how I view the entire friend group. I'll be speaking with some mutual friends about what they've heard; it's receipt time.

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**Judgement - NTA*\*
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Update - 1 day later
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I wanted to give a small update now before I bring the axe down tonight. This will be shorter, as Jay and I will be going fishing together this afternoon after lunch.
I showed Jay the original thread and we had a heart to heart that lasted until the wee hours of the morning. Firstly, he wanted me to express his appreciation for you all, as well as shoutout his fellow fishing enthusiasts. He encourages you all to get out there and try your best, regardless of your success, and to instead share with him the joy it brings, even if we can't all go fishing together.
After going through all of your beautiful words and generous support, we shared our thoughts on the matter not only as a couple, but as two people with different levels of attachment to the individuals in our friend group. We both agree that we had been holding onto these friendships more out of a sense of nostalgia and a desire to be kind, rather than actually examining what these friends brought to the table and whether or not they enriched our lives. We had been distracted by a desire for community and old bonds, sacrificing our comfort and respect for not only ourselves, but our choice to be together and have a dynamic that some may not view as normal or valid in some capacities. While Jay and I have different views on what certain friends mean to us, we agree that enough is enough, and it's time to not only establish boundaries, but to not give an inch to those who have caused us to come to this, Tricia especially.
That said, Jay is a good man. A strong, whip-smart, generous man, and reading the feedback you all provided made me realize something: I am fucking angry.
I allowed a venomous waste of air around my sweet Jay. My Jay. She slandered him, belittled me, devalued what we have, and I allowed it, like some sort of coward. It's going to end now, and I'm ending it my way. I will not be allowing Tricia to slink away from this or have room to twist words to make me look like anything other that a woman with righteous fury regarding the man she vowed to honor and protect.
I'm sorry to report I will not be taking the high road, nor will I be handling this with tact and decorum. I'm blowing this bitches social life sky fucking high, along with anybody who sides with her. Scorched earth, no prisoners, blood for the blood god.
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Comments
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FloMoJoeBlow
...as she takes off the earrings and says "hold my purse". Shit just got real. :)
No-You5550
I am popping the popcorn and waiting for the update.
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Update - 1 day later
​
I'm going to keep this as brief as possible while still covering it, as there is a lot to cover involving about 15 people, and it's still all hitting the fan. Added the NSFW flair as some adult topics will be mentioned below, including potential SA and drug abuse.
During the fishing trip yesterday, I blocked Tricia on everything and reached out to people to say that Jay and I would be distancing ourselves from Tricia, why we were, and shared what "theory" Tricia had about them if there was one, along with any screenshots or evidence I had of Tricia talking about them. I also asked a few friends who might know if Tricia might be interested in Jay, as some people pointed out that that might have been a motivation for her to get between us.
Here's what's been dug up so far:

• Matt (the friend Tricia alleged was gay) confirmed, again, that he isn't gay. He shared a story about how he, his roommate, and Tricia had a get together at one point where they drank and smoked some weed. During the night, Tricia got handsy and tried getting together with Matt's roommate, who declined. When they sobered up the following morning, Tricia said that it should be fine because "men like that sort of thing". After that, Matt and his roommate weren't comfortable with her and effectively barred her from going to their place. Matt suspects this is the origin of the gay rumor, and he's chosen to step away from the social group to reevaluate some things. I didn't want to press him, so I left it there.
• Vince and Maria have gone dark. Maria believed that Tricia was the victim in all of this, and Vince was vague in his responses and seemed to be taking a more hands off approach, but they stopped responding when another friend sent a screenshot of Tricia alluding to them being swingers because they have a decorative pineapple on their kitchen counter. Neither of them have anyone blocked, but no one can get a response out of them, either.
• One friend got into an argument with his girlfriend after said girlfriend went through his phone because of the drama and found either texts or pics (I don't know which) that, according to her, prove that he's been sleeping with Tricia on and off. I heard this from his brother, who reached out after the girlfriend left a voicemail saying she's kicking the friend out, and the brother wanted to know what was going on. I'm not sure exactly what's happening there, as that friend has also gone dark, and none of us know the girlfriend very well/have her phone number.
• One friend came clean about her struggles with prescription pain meds after her mother lost her battle with cancer because Tricia had been trying to blackmail her into getting dirt on Matt, Jay, and Vince and was using the drug abuse as leverage. Admittedly, a lot of my attention got diverted after this came to light because that's a much bigger problem than my beef with Tricia. We are still working on creating a good way for people to be a support system for her moving forward, and that will be what we as a group will focus on from here on out.

An old friend of Jay's dropped a nuke by revealing that Tricia tried blowing him in the bathroom during a "Friendsgiving Dinner" we had last year, only to turn around and try to blow a different guy in the bathroom after Chris turned her down.
Jay, some other friends, and I created a new Discord server for all of the friends coming out of this drama against Tricia, and so far, it's just been a lot of comparing dates, texts, and Discord DMs, but it looks like Tricia has been trying to either sleep with or break up every guy in the friend group, as well as either get rid of or get leverage on every girl friend in the group.
Either way, we have bigger fish to fry now. It's time to put this all behind us and help our friend who really needs it. Thank you all for your kind words and helpful advice, even the harsh stuff <3
​
Comments
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AlwaysOnsideTBH
Holy shit, Tricia is a much bigger asshole than ever anticipated initially. Fuck her and her very being, she deserves to be all alone and sad with nobody to talk to after all the stuff she's been doing behind everyone's back
Blackmailing someone who just lost their mother is terrible!! She's genuinely such a bad human being, disgusting person!
Also I'm guessing she's pretty unattractive if everyone is turning down her advances lmao, she's definitely jealous of all you guys in happy relationships
KatersHaters
Swinger pineapples, blackmail, bathroom blowjobs, and of course Fishing - this update had everything! 10/10, no notes.
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I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.
Please remember the No Brigading Rule and to be civil in the comments

So I recently got a macbook for college. i have an outlook email for that said college. My boyfriend happens to go to the same college as me. So one day when he was over, he wanted to finish an assignment. however he couldn’t do that without opening his outlook email that provided the instructions. he asked if he could log into his college email in my outlook app. without hesitation i said yes, because i know the struggle of wanting to get work done asap.
well somehow some way, he had added his personal email (which he had confused with his college email). when he was done working on my laptop i asked if he wanted to sign out, he said no, so i just closed it and we continued watching a movie.
well a few weeks have gone by since, and like any other student, i have notifications on for the whole app of outlook(because before it was just my email in it). anyways, few days ago i had opened my macbook to play the sims, no biggie, right? upon opening the screen; SEVERAL if not 50 emails flooded my notification wall all coming from outlook email. so i clicked on it. i thought that maybe i had missed an assignment or literally anything pertaining to school. nope. it was all from my boyfriends personal email. to which i read a crap load of onlyfans login confirmations. those basically said “hey we noticed you logged in at “insert time” at “insert place”. Wasn’t you?” so on and so on. immediately my heart had dropped because we have had the whole conversation of “if women do onlyfans, they don’t respect themselves” His words not mine!!
it was mutual in our relationship that i don’t post revealing content on any social media (im talking bikinis, crop tops & short shorts, or whatever it was i feel confident in) and he wouldn’t post anything similar. at first i thought this was a good negotiation because i was tired of finding screenshots of porn scenes and all the like in his phone (i was never going through it, i just would stumble upon that). he would publicly follow porn stars and all that, it was an issue to me because if i did that i’d be wrong in the relationship, not him. so the negotiation stuck. or so i thought. I would always point out to him that it needs to be fair, for example i would say “if you would like to watch porn or follow all these women who “don’t respect themselves or their bodies” i should be able to post my pictures from spring break to florida” to which he would respond with “absolutely not. i don’t want other people seeing you in a cheeky bikini” then i’d reply with “so why do you get to look at it and publicly like it?” and the conversation would never go farther than that. but he understood the situation. if he can follow/like, i can post things like a simple bikini pic or anything i feel confident to post. that was the ordeal.
so back to now, i find these onlyfans emails, and i keep scrolling and it’s showing me transactions that were made to not only one person but maybe a little under 100. all since he turned 18. i know it might be snooping, but he openly left his email in my computer and the notifications were going crazy. well i got upset at this, not only did we have a porn issue again (i can get around that), but he was now PAYING for it. meanwhile ive been loaning him money so he can get back on his feet since he was moving and relocating to a newer job. i love him, and that’s why i loaned him the money, but now i feel stupid and disgusted.
I don’t know how to bring this up to him, that his stuff is getting to my computer, that i know about it all, how it makes me feel. all of it. He usually gets angry when confronted even if i address the issue in a very calm and polite way. it always ends up being my fault. i’ve told two people who are extremely close to me about this and they say to leave him, but i really love him and don’t really want to call it quits because of this. we’ve been together 4 years, since high school. i know we’re both still pretty young and guys his age will watch porn, but if he were to find similar things in my phone or email i know he’d be done with the relationship. also now he finds ways to be sneaky about it. and i think it’s more an issue now because he’s paying for it.
how do i even address the issue? how can i help him with this addiction? any and all advice is greatly appreciated

I'm trying to stick to the facts as much as possible because my boyfriend and I have different opinions of the course of events / the intent behind the actions. If you have any questions for specifics ... feel free to ask.
My boyfriend (we're gay) and I have been together for about 16 months. We're both in our early 30s. We're both each other's first relationship.
We met on a hookup app. At the time he told me he wanted something more than a hookup. I told him I viewed myself as "not the relationship type," but agreed to try.
From the start we agreed that we were monogamous, cheating was a red line, that talking to other people was fine, but physically touching someone is cheating.
For most of the relationship, I thought we had a great time, we were totally into each other, we don't really argue, ever, and I would always tell him, I feel like we're in an endless honeymoon phase.
He moved in with me approximately at the start of Q4 2023.
One day last year he came home and wanted to show me something on his phone. He opened up his browser, and he was on Sniffies. If you don't know what Sniffies is, well it's a hookup app, but unlike things like Tinder or Grindr which are quite frankly much tamer, on Sniffies, you can, for starters, use explicit photos as your profile photo. Everyone on there is looking for sex, period.
He panicked, I told him it was no big deal, and he tried to reassure me multiple times that it was an old tab that had been open for ages.
I really didn't think much of it at the time, and just chalked it up to him being bored. I'd previously told him that I thought Grindr was pretty useful to figure out if someone was gay, and I'd open it sometimes in social situations just to sleuth.
Months later, curiosity got the best of me, and I opened up Sniffies when he went to his mother's house. And there he was. A profile, with his bare ass as the photo, at his mother's home. The photo didn't really make sense to me because you don't need to fill out your profile just to browse, but still I thought he was just bored, because after all he was at his mother's house, and surely he isn't going to hookup while he's there.
A few weeks of opening up Sniffies every few days when he was out and I realized that it was a pattern. He would even get on Sniffies when he was home alone and I was out ... I recognized our bed sheets in one of the photos. So I panicked a bit, and secretly went to the ER, got checked out (negative for everything), and got on PrEP (we don't use condoms). I really don't like to accuse anyone of anything without concrete proof, so I just kept it to myself.
Two weeks ago, on a Friday, I was at work and a friend sent me a screenshot of him on Grindr. "Isn't this your boyfriend?" I felt a little embarrassed. The photo was recent, the profile said he was 28, and the description was "Send your pics. Be Direct. Adult Men. NSA"
I told my boyfriend I had to work late (not all that atypical for me) and I'd probably be home after midnight. I made my way back to the town we live in, and went to a nearby bar, just barely a block from home. It's around 11pm at night, I set up a fake profile on Grindr, "Blake," with fake photos, and started chatting him up. We exchanged photos (explicit), talked about the sexual things we wanted to do to each other, talked about poppers, condom usage, exchanged fake names, and ultimately agreed to meet up not too far from home. So I sat at the bar, at almost midnight looking out a window, and sure enough he walked right past the bar on his way to meet "Blake." I always thought I'd feel angry finding out I was being cheated on, but I can only describe feeling sick. Nauseous. Devastated?
I waited about two minutes so he'd be far away enough, and then I left the bar, turned the other way and went home. I continued the conversation on Grindr, cancelled on him because "My roommates came back earlier than I expected," he was angry, "Are you serious right now???," "I knew it was too good to be true," and then I offered to reschedule and he said (I don't remember the exact words) that he wasn't feeling me anymore after wasting his time.
I jumped in the shower, and took a very long hot shower, trying to process. He walked in about 5 minutes after I got out of the shower, visibly shaking, surprised to see me home. He said he had gone out for a walk, I played dumb, and occupied myself with something else. He said he was going to lay down. He eventually came out of our bedroom, seemed to have calmed down, and I continued to play dumb.
I have this longtime rule where I won't discuss something with someone while I'm angry with them (although not angry in this case) so I took the weekend to process, and Monday in the middle of the work day, I texted him a screenshot of the Grindr profile, said someone sent it to me and we needed to talk. He laughed it off, said it was no big deal, he was on there looking to close his account, at one point made a joke about the inaccurate age, "28? I wish babe." I didn't reply, and he tried to call me 3 times. I told him I was busy, to calm down, and we'd talk about it when we both got home.
I told him that we should break up. He started crying. Told me he loved me. I told him I love him too but I don't trust him. Told him about being on PrEP and that constantly worrying about my health is no way to live. He kept repeating that he "never cheated on me." We discussed it for the next...5 days. On day one I only told him about the screenshot and that I'd seen him on the apps, and about my ER visit. He kept telling me that he loved me, would never do anything to jeopardize our relationship, and that he never cheated on me. Neither of us mentioned "Blake." But I did keep telling him that he's "still lying." I think it was day two or three I told him about "Blake." He was angry at me, and said I "trapped" him, and that "Blake" isn't real so he didn't cheat on me.
I told him I think he has doubts about our relationship, clearly wants something else or is looking for something else, and that I was setting him free to go find whatever it is he's looking for. I told him he would be doing a disservice to himself and to me to remain in this relationship while he's clearly unhappy. He said he was happy and has no doubts. I told him we're only going to get older. We argued some more about it, and while we're both in the bedroom, he jumped on Grindr, and started chatting up people about what we were going through, looking for opinions, telling them "he didn't cheat." Then he started trying to meet up with someone attempting to make me jealous. (I don't get jealous easily.) He was reading his conversations out loud, trying to show them to me, and show me photos. One person showed interest, so he started getting ready to go out, I told him to have fun, and he left the bedroom all dressed up, and went into the living room. I fell asleep for a bit, but then woke up and went in the living room to see if he had left. He hadn't. Said the guy he was talking to ghosted and blocked him. I told him it's because he was acting crazy and it's translating through text. I went back to bed, he came in not long after, jumped on top of me, got naked, tried to seduce me, we struggled and I resisted for about 2 minutes, then gave up and just lay there and stared at him while he had his way with me.
Almost two weeks later. We're still discussing it. To summarize, I've told him I want to end the relationship, but I don't hate him, we can remain friends, roommates for now, I'll still help him find a new job (it's something we were working on before all of this). He thinks I'm being unreasonable, "unfair," "unjust," that I "trapped him," and I'm throwing away our relationship "after we had an amazing year," and that he "never cheated on me." He said he's willing to fight for us, I told him "I don't need another project right now." He still calls me his boyfriend and is basically refusing to accept that I want to break up.
Throughout the almost two weeks of discussing this with him, he's given endless changing reasons about why he went to meet up with "Blake":

• He's seen Blake's photo before, knew Blake was a catfish and wanted to "catch" him. (To which I said, no one does that. If anything, if you think someone is a catfish you stay away from them because meeting them could be unsafe.)
  
• He was bored.
  
• He needed to get off and porn wasn't doing it for him.
  
• We don't have enough sex. (Which really took me by surprise because the week before this we had had sex 5 days in a row. And on one of those days, 3 times in the same day.)
  
• Blake wasn't/isn't real and therefore this isn't a big deal.
  
• I'm throwing away our relationship on an "if." He's never cheated on me.
  
• At one point he watched a video on TikTok of some woman saying that if your man accuses you of cheating, it's because he's cheating, and then he started accusing me of cheating. (TikTok experts aside, by his this logic, does that mean that now that he's accusing ME of cheating, that HE is cheating?)
  
• At another point I told him that my mistake in all of this was not hiring an actor to play Blake, so that he couldn't gaslight me. He said that he didn't intend to do anything with Blake, and if he went there and saw Blake he would've turned around. 🤷‍♂️
  
• I pointed out that in general, he's a very jealous individual, and that if the roles were reversed, he would not be handling this well AT ALL. He agreed to that point.
  

He told one of his friends about all of this, and according to him they told him he "fucked up."
I asked him if he would tell his mother about why we're breaking up and he said "No, she would slap me."
I asked him if he tried to rob a jewelry store, and found on arrival that there were no jewels, would the police let him go because he didn't ACTUALLY rob the jewelry store, or would he go to prison? He said it's a bad example.
I asked him if his mother was seeing a man, who shot a gun at her, but missed, would he be okay with him being around her because he only TRIED to murder her, he didn't actually murder her? He said it's not the same.
He said we should get more opinions (I suspect I know what they'll be), so here I am posting this story.
What do y'all make of this mess?
UPDATE:
He made an account, but this sub doesn't allow commenting from accounts less than 3 days old (greenbandit918)

Hi there, this is OP’s boyfriend in question. For starters this was a mutual agreement in to posting this story to get opinions on our situation.
As he has written all the above let me make it very clear that I did not have any physical contact with anyone else prior, during and after this happened. He has been the only one i have intimate with.
He persists in saying that in me “attempting” is cheating when nothing was going to happened because I knew i was being catfished/trapped. Many years before meeting my my boyfriend I had been on the apps and had previously spoken to someone using the same picture and location. He created an fake profile, fake picture. This meeting was set to happen in a public space I must add. For safety reasons, I would never be willing to meet a stranger in any other way. If this “Blake” person did end up making an appearance, I would have bolted my ass back home.
I accept that it’s my mistake in doing such act but I did it to prove a point to myself that the apps are sketchy and untrustworthy. I don’t know how the younger gay men able to experience this. I had not been on the apps since our relationship began. Stupid to say but it was out of pure boredom at times when I was alone. I have apologized for lying. Yes I was “caught” in a sense as any rational person would lie rather than tell the truth. But him knowing that he was the one I was talking to took me by surprise. I was told of this 3 days later, rather than confronting me about it in the moment.
I need to clear this because I’m most likely been portrayed as an actual cheater in this story than actual being one.
I will be taking questions and advice. I clearly want to save my relationship but my partner is in this not needing “projects” to work on.

I know im young and a lot of people will probably say im over reacting but man i gave that girl everything I could. I'm mainly writing this to come to terms with things and I dont think itll get a lot of traction but stick with me if youre reading.
I (22M) met her (22F) in 2022 through my friend. I was at a point where i was content being by myself and wasnt really looking for anyone but he would always get upset with me for not messaging her because she was upset with him that i didn't message her so one day i just decided to do it. We clicked almost instantly. Looking back it was red flags all over because she was seeing someone although they werent in a relationship. She's studying in the US and im in our home country but we clicked so well we kept talking.
After a couple weeks of us talking literally the entire night every night, she cut things off witht the other guy and fully invested in me. I remember when she first came home for christmas that year, I had a pretty big chem exam on the monday but she had said that I her the saturday and that she's clearing my schedule for me. I found it pretty cute and I did meet her and just pulled and all night aced the course so it wasn't a problem. From then on, we were inseparable. That christmas I went over by her, met her parents and got close enough with them that they invited me to go everywhere with them. They were kind of strict so i could only really go over by her but I'd spend the entire day by her and they'd drop me back home (I had no car).
In december the first blatant red flag showed itself, she had a friend (We will call him #1) that would constantly call her pet names like my princess or baby etc and I had told her thats weird and you should tell him to stop. She said she did but one of the days that i was over by her i noticed that she was talking to her and it was the same pet names. She noticed that I noticed and I asked her if she had told him about it and she said yes then I asked her why's he still doing it then and she just she doesnt know. I told her it made me uncomfortable and since he clearly doesnt respect any boundaries if she could stop talking to him and she just said sure. That same day, the guy she was talking to right before me had messaged her and said hi and she showed me and blocked him without me having to ask her. The rest of christmas went by with nothing much minus the mess up i did which was asking my ex girlfriend that was before her to crochet a panda keychain for her so i could gift it to her (horrible on my part i know).
Skip forward to January and shes back in the US for school and im going to uni in our home country. Im on the phone with her during every second of the day outside of class adn when i wasn't on the phone with her I was messaging her. She had wanted to sleep on calls together and i induldged so we were on the phone even while we slept. Now a couple weeks after she went back the US i felt something change and she got a bit distant but wouldn't tell me no matter what. i ahd started going to the gym with my friend (the same one who introduced us) and I was doing nothing except classes, then a 2 hour gym session in the night. I remember it like it was yesterday, I had went for food with my friend before gym and we ended up going to the airport for subway since it was pretty close to us and I sent her pic and joked that ill hop on a plane and come to her if she wanted to and she just said no. I ended up skipping gym to spend some time with her and see what was bothering her and if she'd tell me. She ended up sayign she feels like i dont spend enough time with her and i felt horrible and started to apologise and tell her that I'd make a more conscious effort to spend less time with my friend and more with her and halfway through me saying that I got a snap from her. She had accidently sent me a flirty snap that she was supposed to send to another guy and when i asked her about it she just said she sent it to the wrong person. After a couple seconds of me saying nothing i guess she realised that she did something wrong and she started to backtrack, saying that she didn't realise it was flirty and whatnot but i just hung up adn went to smoke a cigarette on my steps outside. When I cooled off a bit i was initially going to end things then and there with her because flirting with someone else while we're in a relationship (forgot to mention we got together officially in december) was a major dealbreaker for me but she begged and pleaded and promised and even did SH, i caved and let it slide but it still bothered my for about a week or so before i got over it.
February now, my birthday is right after valentines day and right after my birthday is Carnival. I dont have a lot of money but i wanted to do something special for her because she was coming back home for her spring break a week or so after valentine's day. At the time i couldn't make online purchases or anything because i didnt have a card that allowed me to do so so the only option was asking my mother but my mother and I have a really strained relationship for other reasons and my mother didnt like whenever i was in a relationship so she said no when i asked her if I could use her card to order my then girlfriend some flowers and Ill just give her the cash back. So, instead I opted to do something for when she came back home in a couple of weeks which i explained to her. Valentine's day rolled around and my birthday came the day after and she was acting weird and distant again but i just thought she was sad that I wasn't there or that her dad and stepmom didn't send her flowers that year (they normally did that every year). Her stepmom actually baked me a pretty sweet cake for my birthday and dropped it off for me which was really sweet and i loved it. Anyways, i tried to be there for her during those days and when she came back i was really excited.
The day before she came back I went down to visit her dad and stepmom and asked them if I could stay for a bit to decorate her room etc and they said yea. So my friend (same one who introduced us) took me to the store and i got balloons, flowers, a panda plushie and I had handwrtten her a long love letter and I spent the evening cleaning and decorating her room to make it special. i ended up not liking the flowers so I asked her older sister to take me to the store and i picked up some new flowers and set everything up while managing to hide the surprise from her and just telling my girlfriend that im visiting her parents just to say hi to everyone. The next day comes and goes and she came home and just didn't mention anything which got me a bit down but i brushed it off. I visited her the very next day which was saturday, I woke up early and had been saving up whatever money i had so i could spend it on taxis to go over to her house everyday while she was home.
When I got there i asked if she got my surprise and she just said yea and she was telling her stepmom how i wrote her the letter and was teasing me, starting to read it out for her stepmom and sister to listen to while I (dying of embarassment) begged her not to. her stepmom ended up telling her that its private and to stop, which she did. Fast forward an hour or so and we are on her couch just watching tiktoks on her phone when she gets a message from #1 and at first she tries to play it off as her not knowing why hes messaging her but the message itself was him asking her how her flight was, nothing big. But I asked her open the chat and when she did that was the only message from him, meaning she had deleted whatever messages before where she wouldve told him shes coming home etc and that bothered me because i had asked her to not talk to him for what i think is a good reason and she told me she would. So her still talking to him behind my back and then hiding the messages really bothered me. I ended up almost heading home for the day but i opted not to since it wasn't anything objectively bad. The next day i went down by her and asked to see if there was anything else she was hiding, turns out there were two other guys; one she told to come over (as a joke apparently) and another we will call Jon (important later). Once again, i brushed it off as nothing too bad objectively and though her stepmom had heard the story and had scolded her when I left the day before, we just moved past it.
March, April, May, was more or less uneventful. I had scrapped together some more money and begged her stepmom to order some lego flowers and send it across to her for me because she wanted them and I just paid her in cash. i was also working for my stepdad to get money for a summer trip for me to go and stay by her and see her. Around may was when she started saying she doesnt know if she wants this or could do it because ldr was hard and I told her i understand and if she wants to end things or try with someone else thats in the US as well id understand but she never wanted to break up, she always opted to stay.
July now, I went up and stayed by her for 4 weeks i think it was and we had to split most costs 50/50 to make what money i had last, and I still had to cut the trip a bit short because I was cutting it really close, but it was no problem. I came back home in august and she came a couple days after and i spent every single day by her. Had a couple of sleepovers too because at that point her parents started letting her sister's boyfriend stay over too so they let me as well and we had a lot of fun. While my girlfriend would normally end up going in her room earlier than us, her sister, sister's boyfriend, stepmom and I would stay up and watch movies and make late night gas station trips to get snacks for the night. At that point i was close to her entire family, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandma, everyone. Her uncle had actually invited me to come over for his kid's gender reveal and it was nice. My girlfriend at that point was always getting mad at me for small things like when i wanted to wear pink but she wanted me to wear blue and she also brought up the fact that the distance is too hard for etc almost every other week. A night or so before the gender reveal party she sat me down and said that i dont make her feel appreciated or anything because i appeal to her gift giving love language etc and I remember i couldnt help but let a couple tears fall. We ended up talking for a bit and her sister saw us talking and she ended up getting in trouble with her stepmom because she wasnt understanding im doing everything I could with the amount of money I had. Since all my money was always spent on commuting to her parents house and I just dropped around 1.5k USD on my trip to go visit her, her stepmom was upset with her for demanding more and wanting to end things over that.
That was when her sister, aunts and uncles started to tell her and her parents they she needs to start to treat me better. At that point she had me running up and the down house trailing behind her while she yelled at me for silly things like wanting to go outside and spend time with her family whilst she wanted to sit inside. I remember she called me a day, angry, because one of her aunts told her stepmom to tell her to treat me better and she told me that everyone thinks im so good nad I just sat there confused.
I spent every cent i had on trying to see her as much as possible. Every night I would stay up an hour later just in case she couldnt sleep and wanted someone to talk to, i wasn't going out with my friends nearly as much and if I did she'd be on a call with me. I wasn't studying and was using that time to talk to her but that was okay because it made her happy and I could afford to sacrifce my work and my sleep for her. There were times i pulled all nighters because she asked me to wake up her up at a specific time and i didnt trust myself to wake up in time so id just stay up to wake her up before taking a power nap before my first class. So september passes and we are in october now, this is where it gets juicier.
She had no friends in the US outside of guys she had history with, them liking her etc but she hadnt spoken to them because the last two she had kept in contact with she didnt enforce boundaries. She also didnt leave her apartment much and Id beg her to go out some more and try to make more friends from class or whatever. Id always get really happy for her whenever she said she was going to the mall but she'd want to stay on a call with me through it all and I always had to ask her to go and enjoy herself and to just be safe and let me know when she was home and that she needed time to herself.
At this point her her family and I are basically family too. Id visit them once a month or so to check in and they'd always get angry with me for not visiting them enough and they'd tease me that I only come over when my gf is there. They were inviting me on family outings everytime and her grandma would always tell me she loves me and to come around more. I went to her brother's birthday party there and stayed on a call with her the whole time so she could be there as well. Like i said, shes on the phone with me 24/7 if Im not in a class.
In october now, she gets distant. There was a day october 22nd, we hung up and i took a nap and I woke up around 2pm and she didnt reply to my previous message. SHe had also wanted me to get life360 some time back so i had it for her. A couple hours passed and she wasnt replying to me nor answering my calls and when i checked life 360 her location was off and wasnt loading, More hours passed and I had already messaged my friend to ask if he heard from her and her sister. Her sister checked her Find My location and that location was off as well and its only aorund 8 or 9pm she finally called me and said she went to wynward by herself and didnt feel like picking up my calls or replying she just needed time and space. I was upset and told her that i understand that but next time just let me know so i dont panic thinking something happened to you. A couple days later she got in trouble with her stepmom for 'stressing me out and disappearing' but i just laughed it off.
Now, A couple days later she started telling me wants me to cut off my friend (the one who introduced us). it was out of the blue because she had been saying shes going to stop being friends with him since he started moving different ever since he started liking this other girl (one of my other friends) but i didnt expect her to want me to cut him out of my life seeing that they were really good friends before and this guy and I were almost like brothers. I told her no and it went on for a couple weeks until he blocked her and she stopped asking and demanded. Now, we had many conversations about our future plans, marriage etc. I had gotten into med school at that point and told her after my 3rd year Id propose and stuff and we had a good future plan set; where we'd immigrate, Id convert to islam for her, a good timeline everything. SO she told me that if i want to be in her life i have to cut him off because she doesnt want him in her life at all.
I told her ill go talk to him about it because she wasnt giving me any reason why she hated him so much all of a sudden and thats when she started backtracking saying nevermind and its ok but i had my mind made up to find out what was going on. So he comes and picks me up and I asked wtf is going on between them. He sighs and tells me that a week before Oct 22nd she had a convo w him where she said she still had feelings for him and wanted him back and wants to leave me. i remember that night because we had another fight where she said I was restricting her from going out or making friends (i literally begged her to make friends and to go out) and that I was manipulative and gaslit her. He had the texts to prove it too so i just called her parents, told them I was breaking up with her and then went home. When I got home i asked her for the real reason she wanted me to cut him off and she didnt want to talk really so i just told her what i knew and broke up with her. She didnt react much but after she called me crying and begging and she booked me a flight to go see her in the US, this was a week before a pretty big exam I had in Med school but I still went.
The whole time I was going to the airport, waiting for my flight, boarding, in the air and during my layover flight in panama (it was cheaper to take a layover in panama) she as begging for me back and the whole works. She picked me up from the airport around 10am and i ended up having her apologise to my friends (the one who introduced us and the girl he like because my girlfriend was always really mean to her for no reason) and we talked, she ended up telling me that she only had that conversation with him because she wanted him and the girl he liked to not get together because she thought she was bad for him. A couple days into my stay there and im studying on her ipad for my exam when i got back and she got a message from imessage that popped up on her ipad.
I had flown out sunday morning around 1am and it was wednesday morning at 2:42 am. I was doing a lecture on cancer cells and she was asleep on the bed next to me. I was almost done when I saw the message. It was from Jon. Curious, i opened it and it was the only message and i saw that she had 342 deleted messages from him and 3 other guys. I opened Jons first and the saturday night when I broke up with her she messaged him, rekindlign a friendsship i guess. Whilst I was on the phone with her sending over my passport information, while i was at the airport, while i was flying over to her she was BEGGING me for another chance and it wont happen again and she was also messaging him. To summarise, she was telling him shes so happy its over, that im a loser and she wanted it to end since January. She said she was giggling and that I never did anything for her and that for valentine's i didnt even get her flowers. She said I was stupid because she did what she did for a good reason (Her triyng to break my friends up) and she was promising him that she won't see me again when she goes back him. She told him that she wanted to get to know him, her bed was big enough for a sleepover, the positions she liked, that she'd throw away the baby if he got her pregnant, that raw felt better and more disgusting things that I wouldnt wish my worst enemy to have to see a girl he love say to another guy while she slept peavefully next to him. To end the convo, he asked for some nudes and she sent some boob pics and he sent dick pics and then she told him dont message her for a week cuz she needs space. The morning I landed he had messaged her and she got upset with him, telling him to give her till monday ( i was leaving sunday evening) and then she'd be his. The two other guys were a lot less horrible, just her from august and october saying she misses them and she cant talk to them that much when im over by her every day (it was while i watched movies with her family). its still bad but it wasnt as bad as Jon.
i stumbled out of her apartment and couldnt walk striaght. i was shaking, vomiting and everything. SHe ended up waking up and calling me asking where i was and i went back and sat down and talked to her, asking if there was anything she was hiding and giving her every chance to tell the truth and she lied to the end until i told her that you can see deleted msgs on imessage. Then we had an arguement until the sun came up and I said some things like shes an easy whore out of anger which i deeply regret. I couldnt just leave so i had to stick it out for the rest of the days which i did nad in the end i caved to her pleas under the condition that she'd get therapy since she said her dad and (real) mom's relationship had fucked her up and her mom specifically really fucked her up. (Doormat, I know). So i go back home and barely pass my exam and while im talking to her and making an effort and shes trying her best with therapy and everything, its eating me alive but i tough it out and after my finals she came home and i spent the entire winter break at her parent's house with her, not leaving a single night because her stepmom had plans for me and her sister's boyfriend up until new years and some days after. I can't lie, it was fun because her family celebrated it really nicely and i never had a christmas like that ever.
Fast forward to february 1st this year and things were looking good. She had just gotten out of a therapy session and she called me and broke up with me saying she needs to heal and she doesnt want to be exclusive because she doesnt want to have to consider my feelings but she (allegedly) wont talk to anyone else and not to beg her or try to change her mind, i just said ok and have a good one. I was shattered, crying in ways i never cried before and the whole works because at that point i had sacrificed even my dignity and pride to stay with her through everything. During the first week she was mainly just playing videogames with another friend of hers (lets call him Ant) and that was mainly it while i was in shambles. She told me that he meant a lot to her as a friend and she cant imagine risking losing him as a friend and I asked her if shes fine with risking me forever and she said she thought about it and yea, shes sure she is.
I visited her parents and cried in her stepmom's arms while telling her everything. When i got back home she found out i told her stepmom what she had done in november and she went off the rails, saying i ruined her life and im an asshole and she wants nothing to do with me and to fuck off and get out her life and whatever. I just told her i get it and i just hope she can change for the next person and she said that she could've changed anytime and just didnt want to and im the only one who got that part of her and no else will have to got through that. I didnt say much but we ended up still talking for some time after and she apologised. She flew me out again and i went and it was ok, i found out that Jon had reached out to her again and she hid it but i didnt even care anymore.
She was in contact with my aunt because over winter she had met my aunt and when i had tol dmy aunt what happened my aunt was pissed but long story short there, my aunt told her to leave me tf alone. She and my sister had a good relationship so shed always tell my sister how much she loves me and wants me and my sister would tell me to give her another chance (i didn't tell her why I broke up with my gf). But every 2 weeks shed explode on me again and just say horrible stuff before apologising again. For example, during ramadan I took a sip of alcohol and went off the rails for that saying im disgusting and more. April 6th now, im starting to warm back up to her because i was crazy for this girl. That night she had told me she'll give me a call after she finishes playing with her cousin and brother and Ant and i said ok and when i checked the time it was 2am and she hadnt called. So i messaged her and asked her about it and she went off saying that she told me she cant give me any effort or attention so why do i keep asking for it and that we aren't in a relationship and she cant do it anymore. I just told her ok, i get it, and something in me just snapped and disappeared.
I didnt talk to her for 2 days and I didnt care, then, my sister called her and told her about this girl i was practicing skills with (It was me, the new girl and a couple other friends) and my ex went batshit on me. But i had given up on her already so I just told her we aren't even friends and shes just a mutual friend (which is true). After a day, she came home again and at that point she was all over me. She had gotten out of therapy and was saying that she wants me back and shes changed and its different and she was just obsessed with me but i didnt buy it. So Eid rolls around and her family invites me over so i go and we spend that time together but im still telling her that no, i dont believe what youre now saying and im done.
The saturday after Eid i go back and me, her stepmom and her have a talk and Im still adamant, telling her i dont want her right now but when she graduates if she's still consistent with that and neither of us are in a relationship then we can try something but shes going on, harping on about her only doing those things because of how i manipulated and gaslit her and the reason behind it is her mother and she went through therapy and stuff but im not buying it. She went back to the US the day after for classes. The monday now she calls me and says she messaged the girl (the one my sister told her about) and I just tell her to leave me alone and she starts up, spouting insults and I had enough and just told her I shouldve listened to her family when they said she was just like her mother (Her entire family used to say that).
She was still saying she wants me and loves me and wants to try again and I was still adamant, telling her that I do still love her because i can't stop just like that after loving her so much for so long, but I stopped seeing a that future with her when she did what she did in november and that I cant forget. I told her to give me time and let me heal from what she caused and we can see again next year because it wont be the same as it was if we get into a relationship right now. Turns out that she was talking to some other guy that looked similar to me for day while she was begging for me but i didnt care. Im studying for finals and shes calling me every 5 minutes and while i answer everytime I keep telling her to let me study and leave me be. Then i tell her she needs to move on and make friends to distract her.
Last wednesday now, she goes out for a the entire night with some dude who had messaged her on Instagram the week before (she told me an hour before she left that he had asked her out and she said no). When she comes home she says she had nothing to do so she went but it was just as friends but hes really nice and he has a nice car and everything. I just told her ok and she said that she still wants me and to give her another chance etc but i stick to what ive been saying. The next day she called me and said the same thing but she said that he asked her out again and shes not going to go because she was coming home the day after and she wants to see me. Of course, she goes out with him. But an hour before he picked her up she called and told me hes just a friend, she does like him, she sees nothing with him and hes nice yea and they have all these plans for when she goes back to the US and they took such cute pics together the night before but hes just a friend. Friday morning she makes a 180, saying shes going to try things with him and hes really nice and she wants to see where things go and shes ready for a pure love. She comes back home and friday night i called her stepmom.
WHen she was home for Eid her stepmom had asked me why im not giving her another chance because look how serious she sounds and shes cutting herself because shes so distraught. I told her that it isnt the 1st, 2nd or 3rd time and everytime she doesnt change. I told her that when she goes back to the US, within a week or two she'll stop completely and find someone else.
So i had called her stepmom to tell her that i was right and my ex called me in the night to tell me i shouldnt have told her parents anything and shes done with me, doesnt love me, told me all the good things about this new guy and that he treats her better in that one week than I ever had and that she thinks hes the one (She used to say that about me up to the day before) and that while hes busy during hte day and isnt active nor really replies to her during the day, she just busies herself so its ok. She ended up blocking me.
One of her cousins messaged me and said that hes all shes talking about and that she showed her a picture of the two of them hugging tightly and asked her if she saw his nice car etc but she already started complaining how theres a bit of a language barrier and that when she messages him on one app about something serious, he just goes to another app and starts another conversation there.
I saw his instagram last night and ended up accidently liking one of his posts and within minutes he had me blocked and she also had me blocked on instagram. I messaged her and asked her to give me a quick call because i just want some closure and she just told me to leave her alone. She wants nothing to do with me, does not and will not think about me now or in the future, she doesnt like nor love me and that its my fault i pushed her away, told her I hate her and that shes just like her mom. i told her i never said i hated her, i only told her i still love her but cant forget what she did and that i dont want to tell her I love oyu because i dont want her thinking everything is fine when its not. She said that im making up my own crazy delusions and to get over it, shes done and doesnt want me at all and shes happy with someone else and to stop bothering her and her family. Her step has bene nothing but supportive of me.
I feel like i didn't deserve what this girl put me through. I gave her so many chances and fixed so much of her. now she's giving someone else whom she met a week ago everything i begged her for. I want her back, trust me when i say i dont. I just miss the person I thought she was.
I didn't deserve any of it.
I know what she says about me and its fine, I loved her more than anything else and everyone saw it. I did everything i could and much more and everything saw it, except her. i want her to regret it a lot, perhaps she is changed for him, but I want there to come a day she has to unblock me to reach out to me, just for the closure that she regrets it. I really really want her to regret not valuing me as much as i valued her. I want her to regret throwing away every chance i gave her to show that she's changed and can finally love me the way I deserved, because i showed her what it was like to be loved without restraint. I just want her to regret it. I didnt deserve a single bit of it at all and its eating me away knowing that I didn't while she laughs with him. I know how she was with me so i know how she is with him and while im at my lowest, unable to sleep at night because i get nightmares of that girl, shes happier than ever. Im not happy for her at all, as a matter of fact, I hate that shes so much happier than me because i Deserved that. I deserved to get the good parts of her and all i got was the worst parts that no one else had to get. She actually admitted that she gave me the worst parts of herself and only me because i was there and she doesnt know why she did it really. I didnt deserve what I got, I deserved the pure love.
Sometimes you love the wrong people, doesnt mean you have to change the way you love. Sorry for the storybook and word vomit. If theres anyone who actually read the whole thing, i appreciate it. Just needed to get it off my chest really. Stay safe out there people.

I know im young and a lot of people will probably say im over reacting but man i gave that girl everything I could. I'm mainly writing this to come to terms with things and I dont think itll get a lot of traction but stick with me if youre reading.
I met her in 2022 through my friend. I was at a point where i was content being by myself and wasnt really looking for anyone but he would always get upset with me for not messaging her because she was upset with him that i didn't message her so one day i just decided to do it. We clicked almost instantly. Looking back it was red flags all over because she was seeing someone although they werent in a relationship. She's studying in the US and im in our home country but we clicked so well we kept talking.
After a couple weeks of us talking literally the entire night every night, she cut things off witht the other guy and fully invested in me. I remember when she first came home for christmas that year, I had a pretty big chem exam on the monday but she had said that I her the saturday and that she's clearing my schedule for me. I found it pretty cute and I did meet her and just pulled and all night aced the course so it wasn't a problem. From then on, we were inseparable. That christmas I went over by her, met her parents and got close enough with them that they invited me to go everywhere with them. They were kind of strict so i could only really go over by her but I'd spend the entire day by her and they'd drop me back home (I had no car).
In december the first blatant red flag showed itself, she had a friend (We will call him #1) that would constantly call her pet names like my princess or baby etc and I had told her thats weird and you should tell him to stop. She said she did but one of the days that i was over by her i noticed that she was talking to her and it was the same pet names. She noticed that I noticed and I asked her if she had told him about it and she said yes then I asked her why's he still doing it then and she just she doesnt know. I told her it made me uncomfortable and since he clearly doesnt respect any boundaries if she could stop talking to him and she just said sure. That same day, the guy she was talking to right before me had messaged her and said hi and she showed me and blocked him without me having to ask her. The rest of christmas went by with nothing much minus the mess up i did which was asking my ex girlfriend that was before her to crochet a panda keychain for her so i could gift it to her (horrible on my part i know).
Skip forward to January and shes back in the US for school and im going to uni in our home country. Im on the phone with her during every second of the day outside of class adn when i wasn't on the phone with her I was messaging her. She had wanted to sleep on calls together and i induldged so we were on the phone even while we slept. Now a couple weeks after she went back the US i felt something change and she got a bit distant but wouldn't tell me no matter what. i ahd started going to the gym with my friend (the same one who introduced us) and I was doing nothing except classes, then a 2 hour gym session in the night. I remember it like it was yesterday, I had went for food with my friend before gym and we ended up going to the airport for subway since it was pretty close to us and I sent her pic and joked that ill hop on a plane and come to her if she wanted to and she just said no. I ended up skipping gym to spend some time with her and see what was bothering her and if she'd tell me. She ended up sayign she feels like i dont spend enough time with her and i felt horrible and started to apologise and tell her that I'd make a more conscious effort to spend less time with my friend and more with her and halfway through me saying that I got a snap from her. She had accidently sent me a flirty snap that she was supposed to send to another guy and when i asked her about it she just said she sent it to the wrong person. After a couple seconds of me saying nothing i guess she realised that she did something wrong and she started to backtrack, saying that she didn't realise it was flirty and whatnot but i just hung up adn went to smoke a cigarette on my steps outside. When I cooled off a bit i was initially going to end things then and there with her because flirting with someone else while we're in a relationship (forgot to mention we got together officially in december) was a major dealbreaker for me but she begged and pleaded and promised and even did SH, i caved and let it slide but it still bothered my for about a week or so before i got over it.
February now, my birthday is right after valentines day and right after my birthday is Carnival. I dont have a lot of money but i wanted to do something special for her because she was coming back home for her spring break a week or so after valentine's day. At the time i couldn't make online purchases or anything because i didnt have a card that allowed me to do so so the only option was asking my mother but my mother and I have a really strained relationship for other reasons and my mother didnt like whenever i was in a relationship so she said no when i asked her if I could use her card to order my then girlfriend some flowers and Ill just give her the cash back. So, instead I opted to do something for when she came back home in a couple of weeks which i explained to her. Valentine's day rolled around and my birthday came the day after and she was acting weird and distant again but i just thought she was sad that I wasn't there or that her dad and stepmom didn't send her flowers that year (they normally did that every year). Her stepmom actually baked me a pretty sweet cake for my birthday and dropped it off for me which was really sweet and i loved it. Anyways, i tried to be there for her during those days and when she came back i was really excited.
The day before she came back I went down to visit her dad and stepmom and asked them if I could stay for a bit to decorate her room etc and they said yea. So my friend (same one who introduced us) took me to the store and i got balloons, flowers, a panda plushie and I had handwrtten her a long love letter and I spent the evening cleaning and decorating her room to make it special. i ended up not liking the flowers so I asked her older sister to take me to the store and i picked up some new flowers and set everything up while managing to hide the surprise from her and just telling my girlfriend that im visiting her parents just to say hi to everyone. The next day comes and goes and she came home and just didn't mention anything which got me a bit down but i brushed it off. I visited her the very next day which was saturday, I woke up early and had been saving up whatever money i had so i could spend it on taxis to go over to her house everyday while she was home.
When I got there i asked if she got my surprise and she just said yea and she was telling her stepmom how i wrote her the letter and was teasing me, starting to read it out for her stepmom and sister to listen to while I (dying of embarassment) begged her not to. her stepmom ended up telling her that its private and to stop, which she did. Fast forward an hour or so and we are on her couch just watching tiktoks on her phone when she gets a message from #1 and at first she tries to play it off as her not knowing why hes messaging her but the message itself was him asking her how her flight was, nothing big. But I asked her open the chat and when she did that was the only message from him, meaning she had deleted whatever messages before where she wouldve told him shes coming home etc and that bothered me because i had asked her to not talk to him for what i think is a good reason and she told me she would. So her still talking to him behind my back and then hiding the messages really bothered me. I ended up almost heading home for the day but i opted not to since it wasn't anything objectively bad. The next day i went down by her and asked to see if there was anything else she was hiding, turns out there were two other guys; one she told to come over (as a joke apparently) and another we will call Jon (important later). Once again, i brushed it off as nothing too bad objectively and though her stepmom had heard the story and had scolded her when I left the day before, we just moved past it.
March, April, May, was more or less uneventful. I had scrapped together some more money and begged her stepmom to order some lego flowers and send it across to her for me because she wanted them and I just paid her in cash. i was also working for my stepdad to get money for a summer trip for me to go and stay by her and see her. Around may was when she started saying she doesnt know if she wants this or could do it because ldr was hard and I told her i understand and if she wants to end things or try with someone else thats in the US as well id understand but she never wanted to break up, she always opted to stay.
July now, I went up and stayed by her for 4 weeks i think it was and we had to split most costs 50/50 to make what money i had last, and I still had to cut the trip a bit short because I was cutting it really close, but it was no problem. I came back home in august and she came a couple days after and i spent every single day by her. Had a couple of sleepovers too because at that point her parents started letting her sister's boyfriend stay over too so they let me as well and we had a lot of fun. While my girlfriend would normally end up going in her room earlier than us, her sister, sister's boyfriend, stepmom and I would stay up and watch movies and make late night gas station trips to get snacks for the night. At that point i was close to her entire family, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandma, everyone. Her uncle had actually invited me to come over for his kid's gender reveal and it was nice. My girlfriend at that point was always getting mad at me for small things like when i wanted to wear pink but she wanted me to wear blue and she also brought up the fact that the distance is too hard for etc almost every other week. A night or so before the gender reveal party she sat me down and said that i dont make her feel appreciated or anything because i appeal to her gift giving love language etc and I remember i couldnt help but let a couple tears fall. We ended up talking for a bit and her sister saw us talking and she ended up getting in trouble with her stepmom because she wasnt understanding im doing everything I could with the amount of money I had. Since all my money was always spent on commuting to her parents house and I just dropped around 1.5k USD on my trip to go visit her, her stepmom was upset with her for demanding more and wanting to end things over that.
That was when her sister, aunts and uncles started to tell her and her parents they she needs to start to treat me better. At that point she had me running up and the down house trailing behind her while she yelled at me for silly things like wanting to go outside and spend time with her family whilst she wanted to sit inside. I remember she called me a day, angry, because one of her aunts told her stepmom to tell her to treat me better and she told me that everyone thinks im so good nad I just sat there confused.
I spent every cent i had on trying to see her as much as possible. Every night I would stay up an hour later just in case she couldnt sleep and wanted someone to talk to, i wasn't going out with my friends nearly as much and if I did she'd be on a call with me. I wasn't studying and was using that time to talk to her but that was okay because it made her happy and I could afford to sacrifce my work and my sleep for her. There were times i pulled all nighters because she asked me to wake up her up at a specific time and i didnt trust myself to wake up in time so id just stay up to wake her up before taking a power nap before my first class. So september passes and we are in october now, this is where it gets juicier.
She had no friends in the US outside of guys she had history with, them liking her etc but she hadnt spoken to them because the last two she had kept in contact with she didnt enforce boundaries. She also didnt leave her apartment much and Id beg her to go out some more and try to make more friends from class or whatever. Id always get really happy for her whenever she said she was going to the mall but she'd want to stay on a call with me through it all and I always had to ask her to go and enjoy herself and to just be safe and let me know when she was home and that she needed time to herself.
At this point her her family and I are basically family too. Id visit them once a month or so to check in and they'd always get angry with me for not visiting them enough and they'd tease me that I only come over when my gf is there. They were inviting me on family outings everytime and her grandma would always tell me she loves me and to come around more. I went to her brother's birthday party there and stayed on a call with her the whole time so she could be there as well. Like i said, shes on the phone with me 24/7 if Im not in a class.
In october now, she gets distant. There was a day october 22nd, we hung up and i took a nap and I woke up around 2pm and she didnt reply to my previous message. SHe had also wanted me to get life360 some time back so i had it for her. A couple hours passed and she wasnt replying to me nor answering my calls and when i checked life 360 her location was off and wasnt loading, More hours passed and I had already messaged my friend to ask if he heard from her and her sister. Her sister checked her Find My location and that location was off as well and its only aorund 8 or 9pm she finally called me and said she went to wynward by herself and didnt feel like picking up my calls or replying she just needed time and space. I was upset and told her that i understand that but next time just let me know so i dont panic thinking something happened to you. A couple days later she got in trouble with her stepmom for 'stressing me out and disappearing' but i just laughed it off.
Now, A couple days later she started telling me wants me to cut off my friend (the one who introduced us). it was out of the blue because she had been saying shes going to stop being friends with him since he started moving different ever since he started liking this other girl (one of my other friends) but i didnt expect her to want me to cut him out of my life seeing that they were really good friends before and this guy and I were almost like brothers. I told her no and it went on for a couple weeks until he blocked her and she stopped asking and demanded. Now, we had many conversations about our future plans, marriage etc. I had gotten into med school at that point and told her after my 3rd year Id propose and stuff and we had a good future plan set; where we'd immigrate, Id convert to islam for her, a good timeline everything. SO she told me that if i want to be in her life i have to cut him off because she doesnt want him in her life at all.
I told her ill go talk to him about it because she wasnt giving me any reason why she hated him so much all of a sudden and thats when she started backtracking saying nevermind and its ok but i had my mind made up to find out what was going on. So he comes and picks me up and I asked wtf is going on between them. He sighs and tells me that a week before Oct 22nd she had a convo w him where she said she still had feelings for him and wanted him back and wants to leave me. i remember that night because we had another fight where she said I was restricting her from going out or making friends (i literally begged her to make friends and to go out) and that I was manipulative and gaslit her. He had the texts to prove it too so i just called her parents, told them I was breaking up with her and then went home. When I got home i asked her for the real reason she wanted me to cut him off and she didnt want to talk really so i just told her what i knew and broke up with her. She didnt react much but after she called me crying and begging and she booked me a flight to go see her in the US, this was a week before a pretty big exam I had in Med school but I still went.
The whole time I was going to the airport, waiting for my flight, boarding, in the air and during my layover flight in panama (it was cheaper to take a layover in panama) she as begging for me back and the whole works. She picked me up from the airport around 10am and i ended up having her apologise to my friends (the one who introduced us and the girl he like because my girlfriend was always really mean to her for no reason) and we talked, she ended up telling me that she only had that conversation with him because she wanted him and the girl he liked to not get together because she thought she was bad for him. A couple days into my stay there and im studying on her ipad for my exam when i got back and she got a message from imessage that popped up on her ipad.
I had flown out sunday morning around 1am and it was wednesday morning at 2:42 am. I was doing a lecture on cancer cells and she was asleep on the bed next to me. I was almost done when I saw the message. It was from Jon. Curious, i opened it and it was the only message and i saw that she had 342 deleted messages from him and 3 other guys. I opened Jons first and the saturday night when I broke up with her she messaged him, rekindlign a friendsship i guess. Whilst I was on the phone with her sending over my passport information, while i was at the airport, while i was flying over to her she was BEGGING me for another chance and it wont happen again and she was also messaging him. To summarise, she was telling him shes so happy its over, that im a loser and she wanted it to end since January. She said she was giggling and that I never did anything for her and that for valentine's i didnt even get her flowers. She said I was stupid because she did what she did for a good reason (Her triyng to break my friends up) and she was promising him that she won't see me again when she goes back him. She told him that she wanted to get to know him, her bed was big enough for a sleepover, the positions she liked, that she'd throw away the baby if he got her pregnant, that raw felt better and more disgusting things that I wouldnt wish my worst enemy to have to see a girl he love say to another guy while she slept peavefully next to him. To end the convo, he asked for some nudes and she sent some boob pics and he sent dick pics and then she told him dont message her for a week cuz she needs space. The morning I landed he had messaged her and she got upset with him, telling him to give her till monday ( i was leaving sunday evening) and then she'd be his. The two other guys were a lot less horrible, just her from august and october saying she misses them and she cant talk to them that much when im over by her every day (it was while i watched movies with her family). its still bad but it wasnt as bad as Jon.
i stumbled out of her apartment and couldnt walk striaght. i was shaking, vomiting and everything. SHe ended up waking up and calling me asking where i was and i went back and sat down and talked to her, asking if there was anything she was hiding and giving her every chance to tell the truth and she lied to the end until i told her that you can see deleted msgs on imessage. Then we had an arguement until the sun came up and I said some things like shes an easy whore out of anger which i deeply regret. I couldnt just leave so i had to stick it out for the rest of the days which i did nad in the end i caved to her pleas under the condition that she'd get therapy since she said her dad and (real) mom's relationship had fucked her up and her mom specifically really fucked her up. (Doormat, I know). So i go back home and barely pass my exam and while im talking to her and making an effort and shes trying her best with therapy and everything, its eating me alive but i tough it out and after my finals she came home and i spent the entire winter break at her parent's house with her, not leaving a single night because her stepmom had plans for me and her sister's boyfriend up until new years and some days after. I can't lie, it was fun because her family celebrated it really nicely and i never had a christmas like that ever.
Fast forward to february 1st this year and things were looking good. She had just gotten out of a therapy session and she called me and broke up with me saying she needs to heal and she doesnt want to be exclusive because she doesnt want to have to consider my feelings but she (allegedly) wont talk to anyone else and not to beg her or try to change her mind, i just said ok and have a good one. I was shattered, crying in ways i never cried before and the whole works because at that point i had sacrificed even my dignity and pride to stay with her through everything. During the first week she was mainly just playing videogames with another friend of hers (lets call him Ant) and that was mainly it while i was in shambles. She told me that he meant a lot to her as a friend and she cant imagine risking losing him as a friend and I asked her if shes fine with risking me forever and she said she thought about it and yea, shes sure she is.
I visited her parents and cried in her stepmom's arms while telling her everything. When i got back home she found out i told her stepmom what she had done in november and she went off the rails, saying i ruined her life and im an asshole and she wants nothing to do with me and to fuck off and get out her life and whatever. I just told her i get it and i just hope she can change for the next person and she said that she could've changed anytime and just didnt want to and im the only one who got that part of her and no else will have to got through that. I didnt say much but we ended up still talking for some time after and she apologised. She flew me out again and i went and it was ok, i found out that Jon had reached out to her again and she hid it but i didnt even care anymore.
She was in contact with my aunt because over winter she had met my aunt and when i had tol dmy aunt what happened my aunt was pissed but long story short there, my aunt told her to leave me tf alone. She and my sister had a good relationship so shed always tell my sister how much she loves me and wants me and my sister would tell me to give her another chance (i didn't tell her why I broke up with my gf). But every 2 weeks shed explode on me again and just say horrible stuff before apologising again. For example, during ramadan I took a sip of alcohol and went off the rails for that saying im disgusting and more. April 6th now, im starting to warm back up to her because i was crazy for this girl. That night she had told me she'll give me a call after she finishes playing with her cousin and brother and Ant and i said ok and when i checked the time it was 2am and she hadnt called. So i messaged her and asked her about it and she went off saying that she told me she cant give me any effort or attention so why do i keep asking for it and that we aren't in a relationship and she cant do it anymore. I just told her ok, i get it, and something in me just snapped and disappeared.
I didnt talk to her for 2 days and I didnt care, then, my sister called her and told her about this girl i was practicing skills with (It was me, the new girl and a couple other friends) and my ex went batshit on me. But i had given up on her already so I just told her we aren't even friends and shes just a mutual friend (which is true). After a day, she came home again and at that point she was all over me. She had gotten out of therapy and was saying that she wants me back and shes changed and its different and she was just obsessed with me but i didnt buy it. So Eid rolls around and her family invites me over so i go and we spend that time together but im still telling her that no, i dont believe what youre now saying and im done.
The saturday after Eid i go back and me, her stepmom and her have a talk and Im still adamant, telling her i dont want her right now but when she graduates if she's still consistent with that and neither of us are in a relationship then we can try something but shes going on, harping on about her only doing those things because of how i manipulated and gaslit her and the reason behind it is her mother and she went through therapy and stuff but im not buying it. She went back to the US the day after for classes. The monday now she calls me and says she messaged the girl (the one my sister told her about) and I just tell her to leave me alone and she starts up, spouting insults and I had enough and just told her I shouldve listened to her family when they said she was just like her mother (Her entire family used to say that).
She was still saying she wants me and loves me and wants to try again and I was still adamant, telling her that I do still love her because i can't stop just like that after loving her so much for so long, but I stopped seeing a that future with her when she did what she did in november and that I cant forget. I told her to give me time and let me heal from what she caused and we can see again next year because it wont be the same as it was if we get into a relationship right now. Turns out that she was talking to some other guy that looked similar to me for day while she was begging for me but i didnt care. Im studying for finals and shes calling me every 5 minutes and while i answer everytime I keep telling her to let me study and leave me be. Then i tell her she needs to move on and make friends to distract her.
Last wednesday now, she goes out for a the entire night with some dude who had messaged her on Instagram the week before (she told me an hour before she left that he had asked her out and she said no). When she comes home she says she had nothing to do so she went but it was just as friends but hes really nice and he has a nice car and everything. I just told her ok and she said that she still wants me and to give her another chance etc but i stick to what ive been saying. The next day she called me and said the same thing but she said that he asked her out again and shes not going to go because she was coming home the day after and she wants to see me. Of course, she goes out with him. But an hour before he picked her up she called and told me hes just a friend, she does like him, she sees nothing with him and hes nice yea and they have all these plans for when she goes back to the US and they took such cute pics together the night before but hes just a friend. Friday morning she makes a 180, saying shes going to try things with him and hes really nice and she wants to see where things go and shes ready for a pure love. She comes back home and friday night i called her stepmom.
WHen she was home for Eid her stepmom had asked me why im not giving her another chance because look how serious she sounds and shes cutting herself because shes so distraught. I told her that it isnt the 1st, 2nd or 3rd time and everytime she doesnt change. I told her that when she goes back to the US, within a week or two she'll stop completely and find someone else.
So i had called her stepmom to tell her that i was right and my ex called me in the night to tell me i shouldnt have told her parents anything and shes done with me, doesnt love me, told me all the good things about this new guy and that he treats her better in that one week than I ever had and that she thinks hes the one (She used to say that about me up to the day before) and that while hes busy during hte day and isnt active nor really replies to her during the day, she just busies herself so its ok. She ended up blocking me.
One of her cousins messaged me and said that hes all shes talking about and that she showed her a picture of the two of them hugging tightly and asked her if she saw his nice car etc but she already started complaining how theres a bit of a language barrier and that when she messages him on one app about something serious, he just goes to another app and starts another conversation there.
I saw his instagram last night and ended up accidently liking one of his posts and within minutes he had me blocked and she also had me blocked on instagram. I messaged her and asked her to give me a quick call because i just want some closure and she just told me to leave her alone. She wants nothing to do with me, does not and will not think about me now or in the future, she doesnt like nor love me and that its my fault i pushed her away, told her I hate her and that shes just like her mom. i told her i never said i hated her, i only told her i still love her but cant forget what she did and that i dont want to tell her I love oyu because i dont want her thinking everything is fine when its not. She said that im making up my own crazy delusions and to get over it, shes done and doesnt want me at all and shes happy with someone else and to stop bothering her and her family. Her step has bene nothing but supportive of me.
I feel like i didn't deserve what this girl put me through. I gave her so many chances and fixed so much of her. now she's giving someone else whom she met a week ago everything i begged her for. I want her back, trust me when i say i dont. I just miss the person I thought she was.
I didn't deserve any of it.
I know what she says about me and its fine, I loved her more than anything else and everyone saw it. I did everything i could and much more and everything saw it, except her. i want her to regret it a lot, perhaps she is changed for him, but I want there to come a day she has to unblock me to reach out to me, just for the closure that she regrets it. I really really want her to regret not valuing me as much as i valued her. I want her to regret throwing away every chance i gave her to show that she's changed and can finally love me the way I deserved, because i showed her what it was like to be loved without restraint. I just want her to regret it. I didnt deserve a single bit of it at all and its eating me away knowing that I didn't while she laughs with him. I know how she was with me so i know how she is with him and while im at my lowest, unable to sleep at night because i get nightmares of that girl, shes happier than ever. Im not happy for her at all, as a matter of fact, I hate that shes so much happier than me because i Deserved that. I deserved to get the good parts of her and all i got was the worst parts that no one else had to get. She actually admitted that she gave me the worst parts of herself and only me because i was there and she doesnt know why she did it really. I didnt deserve what I got, I deserved the pure love.
Sometimes you love the wrong people, doesnt mean you have to change the way you love. Sorry for the storybook and word vomit. If theres anyone who actually read the whole thing, i appreciate it. Just needed to get it off my chest really. Stay safe out there people.

Page 1 I woke with weak sunlight drifting through the window. But there was only the sound of autumn wind and distant Birds. No changing of the guards, no morning weapons training. Immediately throwing myself from bed were we under attack? (No, I would have woken with a slit throat). Were they told to evacuate? (God it be good to be given orders again), no somebody would have informed me. Grabbing my sword, I moved slowly down stopping to hear out for any disturbances below, nothing. Opening the door revealing the courtyard. It took me a moment to register what the objects lying down on the cobblestones were. With the wet morning mist clinging to them making them shine. I pulled together the facts that were glaring at me. My men had deserted me. They had dropped their swords the most valuable objects that most of them owned and just left. Pulling out my own identical to the ones laying on the ground. "You ratchet cowards!" but in the pit of my stomach, I understood why, and would I really find all of them? alone? “Because I would be alone”. Looking down at the iron blade. “We conquered the world with this”. Why? Why have it? no answer. The glory of the emperor? Such a thing stopped existing decades ago. I don't even know who the emperor is. By the time you hear of a new one being proclaimed he had probably been already usurped. To protect the empire? That time was over. The Hibernians come from the west and take us as slaves, The Pics come from the north and take our heads as trophies, and the Anglos come from the west and take our land as their own. I gazed up to the countryside the fields went on tended, the roads run down and overgrown and beyond that lay cities and towns left to ruin. My eyes lingered upon one distant half-collapsed white marbled villa. Remembering Pompous Maximus, the last landlord of the valley. A perverted, slovenly old man, he had
Page 2 bought out all the other landowners for a pittance offering false protection and an opportunity to maintain their decadence in return. His holdings got larger and larger until he alone stood. Or laying down in his many layers of fat as was more often the case. Hearing the drunken orgys occurring from that little insular palace up above. Many new recruits mostly ignorant village boys heard it as well and deserted to join his so called "praetorian guard". Eventually "His Majesty" manage to waddle away from his feasting table and unwashed but well-perfumed whores, rolling his way down to the Fort, with a large procession of hangers-on. Even from afar, it was a strange sight, a large flock of colourful men and women with old flags and standards poking above them. By then I had my full contingent at battle-ready with a shield wall directly behind the thick oak doors with myself at the head. Eventually that sweaty pig squealed over the walls demanding that we pledge allegiance to him as the new emperor of the empire, as our proud fellows in arms have already done. Giving the order the Oaken doors creaked open. Peeping above my shield I saw a mixed group in the extreme for both the people within it and the things they bared. The men and women were mostly former members of the provincial elite. First Maximus himself a revolting old man lying upon a well-cushioned litter bed. I looked away from the disgust above to the horror below, to the half-naked skeletal slaves holding the full weight of their master. Observing the others and the bizarre variety of their weapons and armour, some looked like antiques from Caesar's conquests or even before. There were newer "arms", jewel-encrusted with fine gold inlay weapons far too innate to be used in actual combat, and yes, I could swear even seeing a few actual theatre prompts, wooden swords and colourfully painted thatch Shields. Then there were those deserters of mine who left to go join the never-ending excesses of the hilltop. Most of them didn't dare look me in the eye, but some looked over my head
Page 3 into the distance to give the appearance of strength at least. I'm sure they thought they would never have to look at me again or face any consequences for their actions. There were older soldiers there as well, they were only for show no actual warriors ever made it to old age these days. They were clearly not over last night's binge and didn't seem quite aware of what was happening. There were some in the mix that did give me some concern. These were not true barbarians but were undoubtedly savage. I could tell they were native Britons from their accents. The type of low-born cutthroats that would have filled the gladiator pits if such entertainment still existed. Men that would have been found crawling around the darkest parts of the cities we founded. But now that their hunting grounds are deserted and falling to decay. They needed a new home, and they found it. One of them a tall, skinny, thin greasy haired fellow looked me up and down he smiled the way a lizard would if it could. That one is perfectly aware and far more confident than he should be. The mutual man-to-man surveying was broken when "the emperor" Screeched down at us. "I am here to have your loyalty or your surrender!!". Trying hard to keep the grin off my face “And what would you do with our loyalty". "Oh, this is only the beginning! I'd kill the rampaging foreigners then march on Rome, reunite the empire and bring it into a new golden age". The bitter absurdity of what he was saying was so immense. That several of us started laughing. "How dare you insolent whelps!!" he growled spitting with rage. Cut these…bastards down right Now!! Barely getting the words out in his frantic anger. Slapping his hands up and down in fury to better convey the message. One of my traitorous youths launched himself at me. I stepped back and to the side, from the shield wall at the last moment. As he fell through empty air. Collapsing face first into the cobblestones a streak of blood and snot marking the space where his nose hit. Whimpering and frantically scrabbling for
Page 4 his weapon I pulled him by the scruff of the neck and threw him back through the void now left between two very bemused Legionnaires. It was time to put an end to this. "That's enough! Maximus if you care about these people or even just for yourself then leave here, we will not pursue you. You can't beat us and if you can't defeat one fort, how will you match against an Anglo hoard? He looked at me with glazed eyes there was no recognition of reason there (he was mad). I walked out slowly conveying no threat in front of Maximus's human-powered throne. He looked down his eyes widening with a wild hope. I looked in front of me at the poor souls holding up the full weight of their oppressor, barely clothed men and women their sweaty skin straining over taut muscles. Going to the older man in the front. "What's your name?" his eyes squeezed shut with pain his lips quivered, he whispered "Peter". "What the hell are you doing? ...stop, stop talking to it!" He screamed down but I had stopped listening. I stretched out my hand placing it on Peter's shoulder "It's over now Peter, just put it down" His whole body began quivering, "I can't" he croaked "Yes, yes you can just go let it go" letting his arms full to his side and stepping forward. The slaves beside and behind him followed the old man's example. Maximus tumbled down with a thump his devotees desperately clucking around him trying to protect, pick up their master and awkwardly failing at both. Maximus with his mud-stained face looked up at me "Kill them! Kill them all!! Repeating himself over and over slapping his large girth up and down. His most fanatical followers desperately pestered around him. The rest of them, there was a nervous moment where they looked at us and each other unsure of what to do. Attacking us would be suicide. Retreating would go directly against Maximus’s wishes, he would probably have anyone fleeing very slowly killed, and reaching a compromise or surrender would be the least likely outcome. The greasy-haired man slicked his way forward,
Page 5 stopping behind a still screaming Maximus. He leaned down as if to whisper something then unshaved a thin blade striking behind his ear. The fanatics screamed in anger attempting to swarm the fiend, he quickly slipped under and away from a woman's outstretched arms giving her a quick stab as he did so. The rest of the herd broke apart and began to flee as the criminal contingent among them started attacking. Following their true leaders' example, quickly singling out and cutting down the few that could actually fight back, that bloody-nosed boy was struck in the back of the scalp with a spiked club. They had clearly pre-planned to do this at some point, whenever they no longer had use for Maximus or him for them. Ordering a lockstep march out we drove through to bring order to the chaos. The greasy long hair saw us while trying to remove chunky golden rings from Maximus's plump blue fingers, giving me a sickening smile, he caught off a handful in a rush before quickly fleeing. Peter, the slaves, and a few other lost souls managed to find their way to us, but most fled wildly in terror and shock. After thoroughly sacking the villa, the scum burnt it to a husk. Peter and the other slaves stayed for a while, but they eventually decided to find refuge elsewhere in Hibernia of all places to join the Christians there. When they left, we fell back into our regular routine. Contact with the outside got less and less, people got fewer and fewer, as the world turned dark. Some regretted not joining Maximus in his madman's quest, to live in his dream world and then take over the real one. More thought we should try and leave Britannia, link up with the legions on the mainland. Others said we should find some surviving settlement, install ourselves as leaders. But none of these ideas could come to pass. No invading barbarian horde or newly emerged native king would come near us. Leaving our hidden sanctuary into the great unknown, having no idea of who or where to go. I had sent scouts of course but non returned. If we left as one, we would easily be
Page 6 overwhelmed and stamped out. We were something of the past, but of no use in this… dark age. Finally grasping the realisation that my men had, (probably for a while now). We were clinging on to what was familiar, trying to drown our fear. It would have made no difference if we had gone with Maximus that day if we had killed him and his followers it would not change our eventual demise. The world didn't belong to us anymore and it wouldn't again for a long time. It belonged to those like Peter with his god and the greasy-haired man with his handful of fingers. Looking at my sword, the long iron blade polished to a Sheen. My name punched on it "Tiberius Lucius Cardea" I stopped holding on and it just… clambered to the ground and the relief of it, feeling of acceptance, starting anew. Taking a look around the place that I had spent so long. Walking away with a sense of freedom through those old Oaken doors and past that half-collapsed villa. Yet still striving to be better with the remainder of my days.
The end

I have had this friend for a while but have only really been closer for the past year or so I'd say. In this past year, however, I have been so confused on if this person and I are actually friends. There's so much confusing stuff that goes on that makes me wonder if this person can even barely tolerate me, because their actions seem to reflect that more often than not.
I have had several people, including my therapist, tell me that I should drop them or at the very least have asked me if he even sees me as a friend. My therapist doesn't really know exactly what to make of this situation either, but she has once commented that she would "like to beat that kid up", so there's that. Our interactions with each other are not always negative, otherwise I wouldn't talk to him. However, recent events have made me wonder if we only have good interactions if he's getting what he wants (I'll elaborate below) or if I'm overreacting. I do tend to be kind of emotional sometimes and I've always been sensitive since I was a kid, so I often wonder if I'm overthinking too much.
I'm going to list some of the stuff that has hurt me/caused me to think about the "friendship" I have with him to give some perspective on my feelings. The stuff under the initial bullet point is context but is not necessary to read because I know I wrote A LOT.

• I often feel as if anything we do that doesn't involve hanging out at his house is conditional. I love going out and doing things and I'm down to pretty much do anything, but it feels like whenever I or someone else invites him to do something with me & (usually) a group, there's always a weird feeling.
  
  • For example: We were going to the movies with a mutual friend (M) because there was one she wanted to see. She wanted me to ask him and his younger sister if they wanted to go as well, so I asked. Initially, he said no and I was a bit disappointed because I knew she wanted them to go (if he doesn't go, his sister wouldn't have gone) but I just said it was fine and let my friend (M) know. Then, later on he said that he and his sister would go--BUT he had an essay due the day we were going to see the movie (sunday and it was friday at the time) and said he couldn't do both in one day. I stupidly said that I would help him with it (I wrote the entire thing in the end) because I knew (M) wanted him to go and I honestly wanted him to go with us, too. It was fine and I'm glad he went, but that essay took me 3+ hours and I was thinking on it later how that wasn't exactly fair even though I did agree to it.
  • Another time, I asked him if he wanted to go with me to see this movie I had been so excited to see for several months. He did say yes this time without me having to do anything and he said he was interested in seeing the movie. I texted him a few days before we went because I was really excited and I asked him if he was excited to see the movie too and he said, "Not really, I'm kind of indifferent about it" which hurt my feelings a bit especially because he suddenly switched up--but I did ask so that wasn't that bad.
  • Similar to the first point, he would only play a certain video game I liked playing with him (which was mainly just because us two played it and I liked talking to him 1 on 1) if I helped him with his essays/homework.
  • Picked up groceries for his mom instead of him doing it because we were "watching a movie that you (as in me) picked out" later that night.
  • Planned a group beach trip he said he would go on, and then last minute he wouldn't have been able to go because he made plans after I had already asked him about the trip & he said yes. I didn't even find this out from him, but rather his sister. His plans fell through and he ended up going but that really upset me.
  • An example that happened really recently is I sent a picture of the zoo I went to and I was talking about there were a bunch of really cool places nearby I wanted to visit, so I said "If you ever come with me to the zoo we should go look at them," to which he responded "I'm going to have to check them out sometime" D: which is just really rough to read when I try to invite someone to do something damnnn
• Frequently insults my family members & other friends which makes it feel like he's the only decent person I know, despite doing things that are on par or worse than what they do.
  
  • I do rant about them sometimes to him because they do kind of suck but I feel like its too far the way he talks about my family.
  • He also talks poorly about a lot of people we both know behind their back and I don't even want to know what he says about me.
• Has insulted my physical appearance as well as my friend's appearance before.
  
  • Said my eyes looked weird/"threw him off"? Even though I think they're my best facial feature but it still does hurt tbh when someone critiques something you can't change. He never apologized for that & when I brought it up one time a few months later he doubled down and then said I was "pushy"
  • Also sent a pic of me with me friend because he asked me to and he said my friend looked like a "washed up sports player" -- didn't know what that meant and I still don't tbh
• I get ignored/thrown to the side when his friends are involved.
  
  • I was playing some video game with him and his friend (who I don't personally know) and my friend would actively ignore me. He would specifically say "Hey [otherguy's name]" when asking questions which led to me not talking that much because I felt like I was intruding. Whenever he did speak to me it felt like he was talking down to me. And to top it off, when we were logging off for the night he specifically told that dude to have a goodnight and said not a word at all to me--save when I was waiting for them to stop talking so I could ask my friend a question about something and, when he realized I was still in the voice call, said it was "freaky" I was still there and immediately got offline :))))
  • Also almost ditched me when I had been asking him to get on a specific game I like for a while and then, as soon as we had got online, told me he was going to play with a full group of people from school. It turns out it was not a full group and then he invited me back, which I should not have joined in hindsight, but it made me feel pushed to the side and "lesser"
• Deflects any type of serious question/concern I have about our friendship
  
• Has randomly confessed/joked about kind of fucked up things to me sometimes without any prompt from me
  
  • Told me he flirted with our mutual friend from earlier (M) a couple of years prior to see "if she would end up having a crush" on him--which she did--despite him not feeling any sort of feelings for her then or now. And she still has a crush on him too which is just wild to me that he would do that.
  • He made a joke one time about getting a gf and being super nice & sweet to her one week and then the next he would be really cold and distant so she would always be in a state of confusion. Like wtf? I know jokes are jokes but I thought it was really weird and out of place.
• Frequent & small "white lies" where I know he's lying 100%.
  
• Random weird insults/digs at me
  
  • Implied a few times that I seem a bit autistic or could pass off as autistic? There's nothing wrong with having autism but... what?
  • In a group, it feels like he singles me out sometimes and is only rude to me
• Sometimes it seems like he feels almost entitled to know about any other guy I'm talking to, whether they're a classmate/random/online friend/whatever.
  
  • Some random tried to flirt with me on a game I play and I told him about it and sent the screenshots of it because I thought it was funny. I then brought it up a while later and he said "why did you never tell me about this???" even though I already had.
  • Acted weird whenever I mistakenly called my female lab partner "dude" and seemed concerned that I had a male lab partner
• Gets upset at me whenever I don't seem perfectly happy
  
  • I replied "sure" to his text one time and he interpreted it in a bad way I guess? Even though I didn't mean it in a negative way at all
  • Whenever I'm more silent whenever we're talking he has either
    • 1. Blocked me, in the case where I he said I was being "pushy" earlier and I silenced myself in voice chat because I was upset
    • 2. Left, at times where I was more quiet because I had a bad day
    • 3. Said that I must be mad and that it probably isn't a big deal
• Has taken my phone and gone through my messages, snapchat, spotify, photos, without my permission when I was driving
  
  • Started asking me about a (actually) random guy on my snapchat that I didn't know

Like I know this is a lot and it might be a normal friendship but I'm so confused in every way imaginable and would appreciate any kind of advice whatsoever.

I've deleted the chapter where I meet "Whiskers" for a drink and have an unremarkable conversation with him for a few reasons... A) The conversation is BORING. B) Dude's wearing his mask, so we can't even laugh at him for being beardy. C) I've gone back over the entire Married Mary saga, and I'm disappointed in my writing. I'm not "in my feelings" right now at all (but PSA... everyone has feelings, and it's okay to get mired in them from time to time as long as you can take a step back and look at things objectively once you've processed). So I'm determined to make this story make sense! And in order to do so, I think I have to dive into the Dennis debacle...
The Married Mary saga's over halfway narrated (at the time of writing this), so please allow me to attempt whatever damage control I can cram in before the story wraps up, starting with my biggest blunder... I only mentioned my major love interest (D.E.N.N.I.S.) a handful of times, but my crush on him loomed quite large. Gargantuan. Ginormous. Mammoth and monstrous enough to blind me to any other man's nasty-ass attempts to hit on me after he'd just finger-blasted a legbeard onstage (perhaps unwillingly).
It's too late to re-write the earlier chapters and tell the story from a somewhat deranged, lovesick perspective (at least for the purpose of ReddX videos). However, I am turning this story into a novel, so I've already started having a blast channeling my ridiculously lovesick and melodramatic 20-something self. I'm not sure if it's type of cringe that you guys subscribed for, but I feel confident that there's an audience for it somewhere. And it might play to this audience (or at least a subset of this audience)... We'll have to find out together!
The Golden Weasel
Please allow me to properly introduce you to a guy I should have been openly obsessing over from the very beginning of this story... Demonstrate Value. Engage Physically. Nurture Dependence. Neglect Emotionally. Inspire Hope. Separate Entirely. D.E.N.N.I.S.
The Golden God’s indifference was harrowing. I was so distraught! I was soooo in love! The exquisite agony of yearning for a man just out of my grasp... His presence alone could poison my poise. I never thought my eyes could rain a river that would smear, but after I fell in love with Dennis, I understood what middling poets meant by “drowning in your tears.” (wistful sigh) Yeah... this is gonna be a new brand of cringe.
Dennis was a massive dweeb who looked a lot like Moss from The IT Crowd, only much, much shorter. I'm 5'3'', and the dude only seemed taller than me because his wild hair added an inch or two to his stature. He was a "nerdy chic” short king, if you will. He wasn’t conventionally hot, but I personally found him unbearably attractive. Dennis was at the top of his class (in the cohort above me), he was polite to everyone, he laughed easily, and he had a theatrical background to boot.
He'd played Seymour in a fall production of Little Shop of Horrors during his second year as a Psychological Research grad student and I had seen the show. I quickly recognized him as Seymour on the first day of Abnormal Psych in the spring semester. We instantly bonded over theatrical nerdery and Dennis talked my ear off about himself long after class had ended. His dream role was Che in Evita. He wanted to teach at SUNY after he graduated since his best friend from high school lived in Buffalo, NY. He made extra cash bartending, although Dennis himself did not drink. He wasn’t a recovering alcoholic or anything, he just didn’t like losing control. I respected that. He also loved Weezer. Hey! So did I!!!! He asked me if I had any sort of job, and I began to tell him about my party princess gigs. He glazed over and grabbed my necklace. I froze.
Dennis: Nice. A fermata?
I nodded. “Uh-huhhhhh...” Why had it made my toes tingly when his fingertips grazed my sternum???
Dennis: Cool. That means “hold me,” right?
I nodded again.
He took my hand and dramatically bent to kiss it. I could smell his hair. It smelled like mandarins and mountain air. I desperately wanted to touch it. But he rose and sauntered away before I had a chance to react to his gesture. I remember thinking that he carried himself so very gracefully...
Class got cancelled the next week because the prof had some sort of family emergency, so I had a full two weeks to ruminate over my initial interaction with Dennis. We hadn’t exchanged contact info since we assumed we’d see each other the following week. But by the time two full weeks had passed, I had created an entire man in my mind. He looked like Dennis. He sounded like Dennis. He smelled like mandarins and mountain air. He was a theatre dude who liked to listen to Weezer and was planning to teach at SUNY Buffalo. Those things were accurate and therefore harmless.
And now for the crap I made up... Dennis was also into video games, and his favorite was Mass Effect. I wasn’t very good at that one, so he’d walk me through Mass Effect, and I’d let him feel like the sexy teacher. He’d sit behind me, wrap his arms around me, and we’d share the controller until I got the hang of it. And in return, I would show him the best loot locations and mini-bosses on Pandora!
He was incredibly smart in a way that complimented my brand of intelligence. We were both “book smart,” but Dennis was better at discerning a person’s true intentions. This made him slightly less likable, but his skepticism balanced out my Pollyanna outlook, and my Pollyanna outlook softened his skepticism in a way that made him seem easier to talk to. We looked adorable together. We became a power couple on campus, and in the theatre community. He'd play Che and I'd play The Mistress in Evita. And then there were the... spicy thoughts. Again... this was all fantasy. But my dumbass fantasies spiraled out of control over those two weeks. And by the time I saw Dennis again, I was fully infatuated with the version of him I’d created and thus, I was nervous as hell to even say, “Hello.”
But I nutted up and greeted him. He returned the gesture. He prattled on about himself some more after class, and I listened with dilated pupils and body language that mimicked his. He told me about a disastrous tech rehearsal for Little Shop where Audrey II had busted and a stagehand had to become a puppeteer. I laughed too hard, even though the story was only mildly amusing. And I worried that my eyeliner was too heavy... Stop it, Val! Dennis is speaking! Shhhhh...
And, okay. Sure. He was talking about himself a lot. Why wasn't I annoyed by this? Well, in my personal experience, if a guy wanted to tell me all about himself, that meant he was into me. Why wasn't he asking me about myself if he was into me? Because he wanted to get me into all the things he liked. My interests didn't really matter since his ultimate aim was to customize them. I honestly thought that was the way male/female romantic relationships were "supposed to" work at that point in my life because I had only dated guys who acted like this. But how did he know that he was into me if he wasn't asking me many questions? Well, I suppose I made his weiner feel weird for whatever reason. Eventually, I would grow to righteously resent this approach to dating. But I wasn't there quite yet.
He went on and on about having been a camp counselor in high school. Camp Mohawk. I still remember that name because I thought it sounded edgy and punk. Then he told me that it was just a rather culturally insensitive name that they'd come up with back in the 1950s and had never bothered to change. He would lead the campers on hikes through the mountains and he apparently told the best ghost stories thanks to his theatrical background. I told him I’d love to hear one of his ghost stories, and he promised he’d have one for me the following week.
I tried to talk about video games, and Dennis steered the conversation back to his beloved camp. It was in a beautiful part of upstate New York, and he intended to build a country house and spend his summers there once he had tenure. He made it sound lovely. I wondered if I would be able to genuinely enjoy a country house near The Catskills or if I’d have to play pretend in order to make myself the perfect partner for The Golden God. A little pretending and some minor discomfort would be totally worth it if I were able to have Dennis in my life well into our later years. Right?
In a way, I want to yell at my younger self for getting all mushy over this bozo and romanticizing a place I’d never even thought about just because he loved it. But then I consider that if the interpersonal connection had been legit, letting him choose the location of our summer house wouldn’t have been the worst thing in the world. If we’d genuinely clicked on a meaningful level, I would have loved upstate New York simply because it had a special place in his heart. Alas, Dennis didn’t give a fuuuuuuu about me, so all this hypothetical willingness to compromise for the sake of our imaginary relationship was totally cringe.
Okay, I’m starting to hit my limit with the mushy crap, although I'll have to circle back to it at some point. Hopefully you get the idea. Dennis wasn’t a menace (yet). He wasn’t a neckbeard. He wasn’t socially inappropriate. He smelled good. He had great stories. He was charismatic. I already had a crush on him, so he barely had to do anything to make me swoon. But he was fuuuucking full of himself. But let’s pop over to The Spring Stage (my personal favorite local theatre) and meet one of my best friends in the world. My voice teacher (even to this very day). We’ll call him Darius.
At my voice lesson the next week, I was all shifty and giggly as I warmed up.
Darius: What’s with you this week? Wait... Don’t tell me. It’s a BOY.
Me (giggling): You know me too well!!! YES! I have the biggest crush on this guy from grad school. And he’s in the theatre community, so you might know him.
Darius: Do tell!
Me: Dennis Gold? He played Seymour...
Darius: OH. MY. GOD. VAL!!! That guy’s a little WEASEL! My wife ran tech for a show he did at The Penny, and she said he was a total prima donna. I’ve met him a few times and he’s nothing but a braggadocious butthead.
I feigned indignation. “No he’s not! He’s such a sweetheart! And he’s sooo funny!”
Darius: Funny HOW?
I started to stammer something, but I wasn’t sure that I had an answer.
Darius: He’s only funny if he’s got a script. Anything that seems amusing is probably from some pickup artist website or some obscure play that he studied at that pretentious theatre camp he went to.
Me: The one in The Catskills? He said it was outdoorsy and rugged.
Darius laughed out loud. “That prissy little pansy man wouldn’t last ten minutes in the rugged outdoors. I lived in New York a few years ago. That “camp” is where a bunch of rich theatre kids stay in a renovated mansion down the street from a swanky dinner theatre. They practice their show for six weeks and then perform it for all the snooty, rich parents. It’s nowhere near The Catskills. It’s in Manhattan.”
Something between my chest and my belly button suddenly felt tight. I stared blankly at the sheet music in front of me. Truth be told, a cushy mansion and a performance at a swanky dinner theatre seemed more to my liking than rugged mountaineering. But why had Dennis lied? Oh!!! He must have wanted to seem more masculine! And that meant that he must have liked me!!!!! I no longer cared about the lie.
And while I 100% believed Darius about the prima donna attitude and the incessant bragging (because I could kinda tell already), those traits didn't bother me. A lot of time would pass before I would fully understand the difficulties associated with getting somewhat romantically involved with a male prima donna who had the emotionally sensitivity of a fucking turd.
Feeling empowered and having convinced myself that Dennis definitely liked me, I paid to have my hair done, wore a low-cut top and a push-up bra to class, and made sure to top off my look with the fermata necklace. Did my ridiculous seduction preparation work? Actually... yeah. Kind of. That was the day when Dennis finally suggested that we exchange contact info. I was overjoyed. Lucy knew about my crush, but she didn’t actually know Dennis, so I called her and gushed about the exchanging of phone numbers and Facebooks.
Lucy was very, VERY relationship minded. That’s one of the reasons her hatred of Mary's fat, cheating ass ran so deep. Personally, I’d had exactly zero interest in having a serious relationship after I finally broke up with Fart-Knocking Jar-Jar Binks. He wasn’t a bad dude. Not by any means. We were incompatible as hell in the bedroom, though. And I acted like a total bitch to him, accusing him of being positively wretched in the sack. I used to tell him, mocking his obnoxious Jar-Jar voice, "Every time yousa horny, mesa dries up."
Jar-Jar: Noooooo! Mesa want poosey! Pweeeeeeeeease!
In truth, the boom-boom wasn’t working because I was too inexperienced to identify (much less articulate) what was making me uncomfortable. I mean, I'd tell my girlfriends, "Imagine getting bumpily humped by some dude who's just ripped a ripe one and is dropping P-bombs in a Jar-Jar Binks voice. Then he pulls a dramatic O-face after just a few pumps..." But all that absurdity was only a small fraction of the real problem. It sounded funny when I only told the worst of the worst experiences (and so that became my go-to narrative on girls' night), but he actually didn't act like a goofball in the bedroom every single time. And he wasn't a premie. I only added that part when I was mad at him. Like I said. I was a bitch.
The truth was that I hated his brand of dirty talk, his body language, his O-face, the sounds he made in his sleep, his obsession with The Phantom Menace, and his unwillingness to let me pick the movie. But I had a lot of fun going to shows with him and I enjoyed his standup (tons of fart jokes). And he had a really cool dog! Okay, back to the bitchin'...
Jar-Jar seemed to have been extremely inspired by the 'nography he'd insisted we watch together (I wasn't impressed), and he would always get aggressive and pull stupid faces like the male "actors" did, yet he would make the sounds that the female "actors" made. It was suuuuper weird. And he lacked the emotional maturity to imagine that his way of doing things might not be every woman’s personal preference, despite there being a possibly creepy age gap between us. Nine years. Not so bad when both parties are adulty adults; but it might be creepy when the female is 20 and the male is pushing 30. It probably depends on the personalities involved.
The whole thing might sound a bit beardy, and maybe it was. I still wouldn’t classify Jar-Jar as a neckbeard. He could be a know-it-all, but he wasn’t overly entitled. And (if anything) he had a deflated sense of self. He wasn't smelly or gross aside from the frequent flatulence, which he probably did because I found it hilarious at first. But, you see... I'm a fart joke connoisseur, while Jar-Jar liked to pretend he was a fart sommelier. He would rip one into the couch cushion, get up and start describing the "peaty, earthy notes and the gentle sulfur finish." That was funny as hell to me the first time he did it. But it got old. And it eventually became gross and annoying, especially when he ostentatiously broke wind when it was indisputably socially inappropriate to do so. I really wish I had a video of my dad, a typically mild-mannered man, losing his cool when Jar-Jar reenacted a scene from Thunderpants (1:31) at my parents' anniversary dinner.
Anyway, back to Lucy’s approval... Lucy wanted to get married and have babies and she couldn’t imagine how any woman could have different desires. I’d espoused a pretty pessimistic attitude towards romance, and that worried Lucy because she wanted her version of “the best” for me, which was both sweet and slightly annoying. Both of us had been boy crazy in middle school and high school. But once we got to college, Lucy’s boy craziness went off the charts while mine simmered down. Now that I had a raging crush on a guy, Lucy was thrilled for me. She had her own raging crush on a recently divorced dude she’d met in a production of Noises Off. But she suspected that he was gay (he was).
Did I suspect the same of Dennis? Of course. After what my voice teacher told me about the prima donna attitude and the pretentious theatre camp? My gaydar was definitely activated. So Lucy and I would spend hours every night that week musing over whether or not our respective crushes liked to chug dong. We met up with George Gay, presented our cases, allowed him to stalk our crushes on social media, and asked him for his expert opinion. Of course, George asserted that they were both flaming gaylords. Obvi.
But the very next week, Dennis offered to walk me to my car after class and properly kissed me in the parking lot. And it was a really good kiss. The baby bear's porridge of kisses. Not too short, not too long, not too aggressive, not too timid... Perfect. My heart soared. I nearly had a wreck on the way home because I was too busy singing along with Liza Minelli to drive properly. “All the odds are in my favor. Something’s bound to begin!”
Well, it would be a while before anything of note began. Dennis casually mentioned that he was a born-again Christian. The Christian part was cool, but just how "born again" were we talking???
Dennis: Don't worry. I'm not a virgin or anything (wink).
Me: You didn't strike me as a virgin. But I couldn't read that wink.
Dennis leaned closer and whispered, "I think I want you."
Me: I think that statement would be hotter if you were sure.
Dennis: I sometimes struggle with intimacy, babe. I'll have to call my best friend in New York and get him to pray about it. I'll have an answer for you by this weekend.
Me: But I never asked. I like you, but that doesn't mean I'm focused on... that. Let's maybe just enjoy getting to know each other?
And then he put his arm around me and launched into Berowne's monologue from Love's Labor's Lost. When I got home, I googled that monologue and poured over every word for hours, trying to decide whether Dennis had been trying to tell me something without saying it outright or if he was just randomly monologuing (as he was wont to do). Dread prince of plackets? King of codpieces? A whitely wanton with a velvet brow, with two pitch-balls stuck in her face for eyes??? I'd never really studied Shakespeare in depth since I've always been a musical theatre nerd. So I felt confused. And a little dumb.
And then I got a message from Dennis that made me all tingly on one hand... But it was strange on the other hand. It wasn't a selfie. It certainly wasn't a sausage selfie. It looked like he'd hired a professional photographer to snap golden hour pics on a mountainside. The Golden Hour God was shirtless with his jeans partially undone, showing off black, shiny underwear. His upper body looked amazing. Not beefy, but nicely toned (my personal preference), and he seemed to be going for a smoldering face. But he actually looked kind of aggressive.
I replied. "Very artsy. Very handsome!"
Dennis: So is that a yes?
Me: What was the question?
He sent me a wav file. "Don't you want me, baby? Don't you want me, Ohhhhhh..."
Me: You look great, for sure. More factors contribute to THAT kind of wanting than good looks, though. My question is - Do you wan't me?
Dennis: Well, if I say it outright... it's a sin.
Me: Like I said. It doesn't need to be about sex. I genuinely like you as a person. I'm grateful to have you in my life. Isn't that more important???
Dennis. Got it. Never mind.
Me: I'm trying to be supportive of your beliefs! I'm trying not to put pressure on you. Have I said something wrong?
No response. I texted again. "Please finish this conversation with me. I'm not mad and I really do think you look amazing in the picture."
I didn't hear from him again that night. In fact, I'd heard nothing by the time the next Abnormal Psych class rolled around. My chest was in knots. My hands were like ice. I could feel my knees knocking like a nervous cartoon character's.
And then he sauntered in. He and I usually sat together in the front row, playfully trying to outdo each other when it came to answering questions and offering examples. We were a couple of Hermiones. The professor teased us about being overzealous, but he also liked us because he could tell we took the class very seriously. I loved having someone to sit with who was as committed to his studies as... Wait... What the hell?
As I was once again admiring random things about him and wondering exactly what it meant that we had been sitting together since the first day of class, Dennis altered his saunter and almost skipped to the back of the classroom where he launched into a comedic monologue that I didn't recognize in front of a small group of girls. They giggled. My blood boiled. My face went hot. The tightest in my chest released and morphed into a swarm of bees, repeatedly stinging me from the inside.
I made a dramatic show of slamming my books on the table. And then I sat down very gingerly, crossed my ankles, and poised myself. Book open to the appropriate chapter. Assigned article printed, highlighted, covered in posit-it notes and ready for me to critique. Favorite pen resting in my left hand atop one of those ridiculous Lisa Frank notebooks that I refused to stop using, despite being a freakin' adult and going through three or four of them per class. This one had colorful dolphins on it.
I could hear the girls in the back politely clap, but I couldn't tell if they were mocking Dennis or getting smitten with him. Either way, I was irrationally mad at them. The Golden Goofball pulled up a seat in the front row, but not next to me for once. My hands were shaking now. I steeled myself and exhaled as Dr. Roman took his place at the podium and instructed us to take out the materials that were already neatly arranged in front of me.
Up to that point, I had been pretending (to Dennis) that I found the class challenging since it was a second-year class and I had decided to take it during my first year. In truth, I loved the class, had learned how to use the DSM-IV as an undergrad, and I was asking for Dennis' help to facilitate feelings of manliness in him (and to have an excuse to talk to him). It worked for Cady Heron! Seems like Mean Girls had been onto something... And I didn't worry about getting caught because I wasn't playing dumb, I was just pretending to need a little many guidance. BARF. Please don't downplay your own intelligence to make some prima donna's head get even bigger so that \maybe* they'll like-LIKE you. It's super cringe. I see that very clearly now. Hell, I'll see it very clearly before the end of the story.*
Dennis turned to me and said aloud, "You cool if I sit over here?"
My grip tightened on my favorite pen and I ground my ankle bones together, covertly took in a deep breath and said in a sweetly icy voice, "Why wouldn't I be?" I flashed him a fake smile, sat up even straighter and focused on the powerpoint presentation on the screen.
After I'd held my own in class with no help from Dennis and his "magnificent brain," he waited for me at the end of the front row as everyone was leaving. "Looks like you don't need my help with the DSM anymore."
I caught his gaze and he quickly looked down at the table. "That's right. You're finally shot of me."
Dennis: I don't want to shoot you! Babe, you have to understand...
Me: I meant RID of me. The Brit comes out when I'm cross.
Dennis grabbed my shoulders and belted, "Suddenly Seymour...."
I shrugged him off. "Save it. I've got things to do after class."
Dennis: Wait! Babe! I thought you liked my singing!"
I spun around and said in a quieter voice so as not to become a spectacle, "This has nothing to do with your singing. You got super weird with me last week and you've been avoiding me ever since. Have an adult conversation with me or fuck off."
Dennis: Babe! You know I don't curse.
Me: Yeah, well sometimes I do.
So much for not making a spectacle. I tightened my grip on my stack of books and notebooks, made a clawed fist with my keys like I always do as I'm leaving a public place, and stalked out of the building. I kind of expected Dennis to run after me and finish our conversation in private since he had not been following what I was trying to say to him. But when I reached my Silver Prius (customized with geeky decals all over the back windshield), I turned around to find myself alone. My heart, having been pounding in self-righteous fury during the long walk to the parking lot, now sank dejectedly into my belly. I felt ill.
Later that night, Dennis rang. Not a text. And actual voice-on-voice phone call. I wanted to ignore it the way he'd ignore my texts the previous week. But Dennis always made my spine feel funny. Not the way nasty-ass neckbeards or creepy nice guys powder our spines... You know when you're so into someone that a chill runs all the way down your spine, and then a charge rushes right back up your spine whenever you encounter them? Is that just me? Anyway. I was under the spell of the crush, and I had no desire to break it yet.
Me: Did you mean to call me, or was this a butt dial?
Dennis laughed. "Nah. I wanted to call. Actually... I wanted to see you."
Me: Why??? I feel like I never say the right thing to you and I just wind up getting on your nerves when I'm trying to give you compliments.
Dennis: Uhhhh... I think I communicate better in person.
Me: Yeah. Same. Are we the last of the humans who prefer face-to-face interaction?
Dennis: Maybe it's a theatre person thing?
I wanted to point out that he'd been complete DOG SHIT at communicating in class earlier that day. But it felt like we were bonding again. Even if the matter was relatively trivial, my anger was going away and I was starting to jones for a hug from The Golden God. So I agreed to meet at a coffee shop near his apartment.
And he was super intense when I walked in to the coffee shop. He stood up, adopted a purposeful, motivated, manly stride as he made his way to the entryway, and wrapped me up and an uncomfortably tight embrace that nonetheless warmed my heart. I got a little high on the mandarins and mountain air. When he finally pulled away, he took my hand, laced his fingers through mine, led me to a booth and insisted that we sit beside one another.
Me: Dennis, I'm getting whiplash. I don't know if you loathe me or like me.
Dennis: I like you. Maybe I like you too much. That's why I get sensitive.
He took off his glasses and pulled me in for a long, deliberate kiss. What was happening??? He hadn't kissed me like that since the very first time we'd kissed. When he finally unlocked our lips, he took my face in his hands, and was able to hold eye contact with me for the first time in a long time.
His voice shook as he said quietly, "I. Want. You."
Me: Okay... You mean...
Dennis nodded.
I pulled back and little and took his hands. "Listen. It doesn't have to be a big deal. I'm not even sure that I'm ready to completely take that plunge."
Dennis: I thought you thought I was attractive...
"I do!" I stroked his soft, stylishly unkempt hair, but he pulled away. I continued trying to talk sense to the lad. "I mean it. I really do. You're gorgeous. It's just that I've never had great experiences with... that. Honestly, I'm kinda scared."
Dennis: I told you I'm not a virgin. I know how to do it.
Me: That's not what I'm scared of. I'm scared of pain.
Dennis seemed to regain some of that over-the-top confidence that he typically radiated. He sat up straighter, a glint began to bedazzle his hazel eyes, and he smirked a little. "Wow. Now you're sounding more like the virgin."
Me: I'm okay with that. If it's ever gonna happen, I'd prefer it if you treated me like a virgin instead of trying to recreate a scene from a porno. That's what most guys do and it totally takes me out of the game.
Dennis made an ick face. "I've never even seen anything of that nature. I wouldn't even know how to begin to recreate that kind of trash."
Me: That actually makes me feel calmer about... going there.
Dennis: Right now???
I shrugged. "It happens when it happens."
Dennis: Can it pleeeeease be now? I'm not kidding, Val. There's an ache...
He gestured to his crotch. Got it. I guess this was happening. He left a 20 dollar bill on the table, even though I'm pretty sure he'd only had a cup of coffee and I hadn't had the chance to order anything at all since the server had been too uncomfortable to approach the table.
Surprisingly, it went quite well. For the first time in my life, I was intimate with a guy who took things slowly... Well, he took it slowly once I told him it wasn't going to happen at all unless he pumped the brakes. Out in the world, Dennis was constantly onstage. But in the bedroom, he acted like a normal human being. He was considerate. He was careful not to hurt me. The actual intimacy was over very quickly, but we were able to give it another go later that night. After some shockingly normal pillow talk, where Dennis stopped acting like the center of the universe for one peaceful moment, I stood up to get dressed.
Dennis: You're not sleeping over?
Me: No. It takes me a while before I can literally sleep with someone.
Dennis: But we just...
Me: It's a different kind of intimacy. Different kind of trust. I was the kid who couldn't go to sleep at slumber parties. Not even in high school.
Dennis: Your parents had to come get you? That's cute.
Me: No. I usually just started at the ceiling and made up stories in my head all night. If you really want me to stay over, I can stare at your ceiling all night. Maybe I'll think of a good story while you sleep.
Dennis: Nah. That's kinda cool, actually. I love that you're not clingy.
I leaned over and kissed him. He let me take the lead for once. "Don't mistake my lack of clinginess for lack of caring. I like you." And then I added in a tone that was both playful and stern, "Don't ever freakin' ignore me again. Mutual respect from here on out?"
Dennis: Absolutely!
As my jelly legs carried me to the parking lot of Dennis' apartment complex, I finally understood what people meant when they said they were "satisfied" after knocking boots. In the past, I had always felt a perverse sense of accomplishment for having endured the unpleasantness of bumpy thrusts, bizarre noises, and the repetition of that hideous phrase, "Yeah, baby. I know you like that." I didn't. But I had liked what just happened with Dennis. As if I hadn't been smitten enough already... Now my brain was swirling with oxytocin. I was done for.
And for the next few weeks, Dennis was a sweetheart. He was still braggadocious and, being madly in love with him by this point, I found it endearing. We saw each other several times a week, and I felt increasingly at ease around him. I was even comfortable enough to (literally) sleep in the bed with him from time to time. Oooof. I just felt it. I've been writing a bunch of awkward romance, but I haven't even provided any real smut or any good cringe. Or is my pathetic crush cringe-worthy? I really have no way of knowing how this bit of the story is going to play. Apologies. It'll get gross here in a minute, though!
Basically, Dennis was as full of himself as ever, but he was suuuuper nice now that I was a direct line to his precious orgasm. And the bedroom stuff remained great. For those first few weeks, at least. Then the semester ended and Dennis went radio silent. I crumbled into a complete mess. Crying on the phone to Lucy. Going out and getting as drunk as my body would permit, as a massive F-YOU to Dennis' arrogant abstinence. And I wrote. Holy shit, I WROTE. Pages upon pages of nauseating, meandering prose about a vanishing romance. Not unlike what's coming out of my brain right now as I attempt to channel 2011 Dennis-obsessed Val.
And then Dennis called me out of the blue, acting like nothing was weird. He wanted me to come over, and... Yeah. I was elated that things were back on, and I assumed he would explain his absence. He didn’t. He stroked the side of my face, kissed my forehead, and started at me intensely.
Me: What's up? Is something wrong or is this just a dramatic moment?
Dennis: I trust you. I feel safe with you.
Me: Thanks. That means a lot to me.
Dennis: And I think we're a great team. In and out of bed.
My heart was pounding.
Dennis: Val...
Me: Yes...
Dennis: I need to ask you something. You can give it some thought if you need to. It's a pretty big ask...
Oh my GOD. This was it. He must have needed those few weeks to do some soul-searching. He was about to say he loved me! He was about to ask me to be his girlfriend! At the very least, he was about to ask...
Dennis: Anal?
Me: Wha-huh?
Dennis: Uh. You know? Butt stuff?
I sat up and covered my nakedness with his shirt. "NO! Ew!!! What's wrong with you???"
Dennis: I mean, lots of people do it.
Me: I DON'T.
Dennis: Oh. Okay. Well, I certainly wouldn't want to be that pushy guy who pressures you into doing something you're not comfortable with. But could we maybe...
Me: NO! Butt stuff is not up for discussion. That's a hard pass for me. Dude, I thought you were a Christian!
Dennis: I am!!! That's why I wanna switch to butt stuff. It's not a sin.
Me: Oh, for God's sake. Don't take the scriptures so literally. Butt stuff between men and women isn't mentioned in the Bible because people didn't even talk about that shit back then.
Dennis: No!!! It's a purer form of lovemaking. You can't get pregnant.
Me: Pure??? Sticking your penis in the POOP CHUTE is pure... You're deluded.
Dennis: I wouldn't need to wear a rubber if you let me go in the back. I kind of struggle with the morality of contraception, too.
Me: Are you insane??? Butt sex is the easiest way to spread STIs!!!
Dennis: Really? But you can't get preg... Oh right... I guess there's still a mucus membranes and stuff.
Me: Yeah, and you're more likely to BLEED, so you're more likely to get cooties in your bloodstream. Can we please stop talking about this? It's making me queasy.
Dennis: I get it. It was just a thought. You gonna stay the night?
Me: Not tonight. I need to go home and wash off this conversation. But I'll call you later, okay?
Dennis nodded. But he didn't answer when I called him. He blocked me on Facebook. He didn't return me e-mails. That was that, I suppose. By refusing his butt-blasting request, I had ruined my chances with The Golden God. I began to consider trying it. I'd get a high colonic. I'd get George's Gay's advice on the best lubricants. Even if it was as awful as I predicted it would be, it would show him that I was willing to put his needs before my comfort level! That's love... right??? (OMG. NO, you little romance novice! Get a CLUE!) I just had to wait for him to finish feeling slighted, get horny, swallow his pride, and call me up (acting like he hadn't dropped off the face of the Earth for... What was it now... Over a month????)
I'm pressing pause right here while Dennis is radio silent because I sense that it's getting long. Next time I see you, George Gay and I will be rehearsing for Cats!

TLDR I’m an atypical girl who never really had friends or happiness. I found my soulmate who is everything I want in 1. She is a preachers daughter so her parents don’t support lgbt and they thought we were lesbian lovers. Her parents did something bad to her because of that, causing her to abandon me after we’d formed an extremely close bond, which is the only thing I wanted to have with another girl like me. This has worsened my depression and anxiety for years as I truly loved her. I have tried and failed to find a replacement for her and I’m also struggling with nightmares and hauntings of her along with chronic loneliness. Last time I tried to talk to her she refused because she didn’t want to be punished by her parents again. She says she has moved on but she always responds to my attempts. I think her parents may be the only reason why she stopped being my best friend. Should I reach out again once we are both legal adults to try to fix things or at least meet in person?
I’m going to try to make this as short as possible but as detailed as I can because this has been bothering me for years and nobody in my personal life has advice so ig I’ll try here.
A little background on me I am a 17F but I’m not a typical girl I’m kinda a mix between tomboy and girly( I like to fish, play video games, ride dirt bikes, play with nerf guns etc. but I also like to dress up, get my hair done, go shopping, etc.) on top of this I have social anxiety (which is why I’ve literally never posted anything on this account lol) and I’m shy so it’s kinda hard for me to make friends that I can relate to. Most of my friends are guys bc I only have brothers and I’m mostly only around male cousins etc. so I can talk to guys easily or play video games with them. I’d like to have female friends but the girls I know don’t have similar interests as me, and most of them are judgemental (which I don’t like due to my social anxiety + I’m pro kindness ) but I crave more female friends because obviously I can’t relate to my male friends like I can with a girl.
Well one day I met a girl(we were both 13F at the time) and she was just like me. I was drawn to her in an indescribable way. It was weird like I genuinely felt like a supernatural attraction to her even though I’d never met her before. At first I didn’t like her because I met her at a time when I got picked on a lot and she was one of those insults as jokes type of people so I thought she was a bully but eventually I warmed up to her and we became friends. Then as I got to know her I realized that she was literally the perfect person for me. We were almost identical but just different enough to be the perfect pair
Ex. We both like video games. I like casual games like survival, farming, life simulations. She likes shooters but at the time we would play Minecraft and Fortnite together. She likes adult cartoons , I like anime and adult cartoons, literally perfect. We had similar humor, were both honor students, I know now that we both had troubling home lives , etc. we had so much in common that there was always something for us to talk about or relate to.
As time went on we got closer and closer like almost attached at the hip close. We would text daily (nobody had ever texted me consistently before) and plan our future together. We were supposed to be roommates and have a family together. I don't remember how children got into the equation but we made plans to co parent and all of this stuff (like the buddy daddies anime one of my favorites ^-). I used to like role playing when I was a child so we would role play our future over text and we would write stories about it together. I’d never had a girl that was so invested in me and so similarelateable to me and it felt so good. I never experienced happiness or purpose until I met her. I would look forward to seeing her and having that one girl I could genuinely relate to and care about me.
I realized I was falling in love with her but I didn’t tell her because I didn’t want to accept myself. I would get extremely jealous or irate if she gave another girl attention (I’m noticing I have a habit with that lol) but I don’t think she caught on if she did she never told me. I would want to love bomb her or kiss her SO BAD but I wanted to respect her space because I didn’t know her sexuality. I would ask her and it would change. I wasn’t sure of my own either but I knew I wanted to be with her. Despite this I didn’t tell her at the time.
Throughout our friendship I noticed she would not be as open to me as I would be to her or not as honest as she should be. For example I would say hey I’m very clingy so if I go overboard just let me know. She would say okay but she wouldn’t tell me if I was or wasn’t clingy then she would tell someone I’m too clingy then I would go back and ask her hey do you want me to be less clingy and then she’ll be like no it’s ok. Stuff like that
Also I used to call her Love. Honestly I wasn’t calling her it at first I was trying to say “Hey with love” as “Hey love” similarly to the term “love punch” but then when I realized oh hey her birthday is around Valentine’s(love) Day so she’s a love baby I would call her that. She was taking it as me calling her “ girlfriend” I think and she would tell me to stop but muscle memory yk so I do admit I was at fault for continuing but it was unintentional. I would apologize and she would say “dw it’s fine u can call me it” stuff like that that would be confusing
One day we were preparing to write another story about our future together and out of the blue she asked me to stop calling her love and a whole bunch of other stuff. I just remembered that one because I could tell it was serious that time. There was so much I wanted to say but I just said “Okay” in response and I regret that now. She never texted me back after that. I waited for a long time but she never responded.I was panicking and heartbroken because I knew this was the end and that terrified me. I’d finally found someone that made my life worth living and she was getting taken away from me. When I saw her in school after that she told me I got her in trouble and I had an internal panic attack. I knew what it meant bc my parents are the same. On the outside I was frozen but inside I literally died. I remember I was at my desk shaking and trying to hold back tears. She began to be cold to me and she would ignore and avoid me. And she blocked me literally everywhere. Even YouTube. It would hurt me everyday to see her happy with other people when I was back at square 1 anxious, depressed and alone . I felt like I lost a part of myself, a family member, or my twin flame. Idk why but I thought this time was a good time to confess to her but it did nothing. I could tell she was feeling prideful about it but yeah I got rejected womp womp. Instead, she outed me to her friends which they used to make fun of me and blackmail me later in life After that there was a pattern of her being nice then mean then nice then mean. She would change how she acted towards me randomly and it was so confusing but eventually we became friends again. She never unblocked me but she would talk to me and email me at school. She was the one to initiate it. Due to her constant change of nice and mean I would only talk to her if she initiated it. The last day we were together I remember constantly. She messaged me and I was venting to her about my ex bf at the time. She went up to him, confronted him and then tried to fight him. It made me happy to see her being protective/ territorial of me again which was something I really liked that she did. I separated them and brought her inside the school when we went in we hugged so tight that we almost fused together. I wanted to kiss her but I didn’t. It’s kinda like we knew it was the end. I watched her walk off and every step she took I could feel it on my heart and it hurt worse the farther she got. I wanted to run after her but I didn’t and I regret it.
We talked over email for a few days bc quarantine made us leave school and then she was gone. I cried a lot about it. I didn’t want to believe she was really gone.
After a couple of weeks it really settled in and I became obsessed with trying to get back to her I made new accounts and everything but I got scared and didn’t follow through. I told a mutual friend and he went and messaged her. She was cold and blamed me for getting her in trouble. It hurt me so bad because she was the one who reached out to me. I cried a lot again but I tried to accept it. I deleted our old messages, I deleted most pics of her I had. I couldn't bring myself to delete them all and instead I tried to make online friends and I did meet another girl and things were going well but she randomly ghosted me. Literally out of nowhere. It made me miss my best friend again. I went into a really bad depression and my eating disorder got worse due to so many failed friendships.
On top of several failed attempts at remaking friends, any progress I made on moving on from her got messed up because my old best friend has a word for a name so I would see it and hear it everywhere. I would have dreams and nightmares about her. She would look so beautiful in them and it would make me cry when I woke up. I still do sometimes :(. Her face is the only face that I can see clearly in my mind because it would pop up randomly. I’m starting to forget how she looks now but I can still see it in the void. At one point it got bad and reopened my obsession so I restored our old messages to read them again, and read our old stories. I ended up writing down an unabridged version of this in my notes app with screenshots. After the online friends weren’t working I gave up. I still don’t have any friends like her. I always had a boyfriend but I wish I had a girl best friend like her. One time I got overwhelmed and made an SAttempt. It scared me enough to finally message her bc I didn’t want to leave without her knowing I still love her. I reached out to her a few times and she rejected my olive branch the first time. That time hurt me so bad that I couldn’t even cry about it. The second time I accidentally sent her a message. I thought I was blocked so it wouldn’t go through. I guess she felt pity on me but she told me things that made me feel worse she begged me not to text her again. But she didn’t reblock the account I was messaging her from (I don’t have access to it anymore so idk if that changed) I don’t know for sure but I think her parents may have made her stop talking to me because they thought she was not straight and I was the reason for it because of the plans and stuff. She told me she got in trouble for it but never went into detail. She would also give me little hints that her parents were not allies. She told me that she was punished before for talking to me and she doesn’t want to get in trouble again because of me. That hurt me a lot.
There’s so much I still want to ask her but I didn’t because I don’t want her to get hurt. I really want her back in my life. It’s the only thing I want. I want to fix things and maybe go to therapy together so we can be at least friends again and so that I can physically see that she is safe and well but I want to know if that is a good idea. I'm unsure of her feelings for me because she wasn’t really expressive. I just made assumptions based on her actions. She was protective of me, she would get jealous if I got a boyfriend or had a crush, she was the one who wanted to share custody, she could be touchy sometimes ;), she used to flirt with me a lot, etc and she told me she felt the same way as I did sometimes (when I told her I had a crush on her). I know that I miss her and I want to fix things because she is perfect. Ik there’s other fish in the sea but there’s no fish like her. I assumed that since she didn’t reblock the account that she was ‘leaving the door open’ so to speak. I feel like if it wasn’t for her parents then maybe we could be at least friends again, so I was thinking I should try to rekindle our friendship when she is a legal adult because based on things I’ve seen and heard her parents are not the nicest and possibly abusive so I was thinking that I could let her know that I wouldn’t mind being roommates still if she needs a place to go to get away but I really don’t want to get hurt again
Ik this is kind of all over the place but it’s genuinely condensed as much as I could . I have an unabridged version with more details + context if interested but it’s pretty much a novella

Let me preface it this by saying I'm a big fan of his work. I think he does a wonderful job in the politcal / culture war sphere. I enjoy watching his debates as I believe he operates on the notion that the best way to win them is through evidence/truth and, as if they were a match in a video game, he tries to improve on each one - by finding ways to be more rhetorically effective (while still being good faith) and precise in his facts.
However there are aspects of him that I find morally reprehensible and often unforgivable. The most problematic issue with Destiny involves a pattern of disproportionate, disturbing, retaliatory responses, which he normalizes among his audience. Here are a few examples:

1. The most infamous example is the DDOS kid story, where a teenager was using DDOS attacks to disrupt his internet connection, thus affecting Steven's source of income. This went on for a long while. Steven tried everything to stop it, including calling the teenager's parents. At one point, Steven obtained a permit for a gun and started planning the murder of the teenager and his father (not hyperbole, his own words). However, he eventually found a technical solution to the attacks. In his retelling of the story, he doubles down that he would have been within his rights to commit murder for cutting off his livelihood. In last year's debate with Pisco, he also said that he would be justified in shooting someone in the head if he saw them slashing his tires. These streams are viewed by at least dozens of thousands of people.
2. He publicly threatened to leak the nudes of a mentally unstable girl named Ana because she was upset by what she viewed as a one-sided narrative claiming she was a stalker who received no signs of interest from Steven. So, she suggested she might show the DMs from him that were sexual in nature (from the time this narrative was perpetuated by Destiny). In response, Steven publicly stated in his Discord that if she leaked those DMs, he might have some pictures to show as well.
3. Destiny recently got divorced and was very upset that his wife was badmouthing him to mutual friends. He told her that if she didn't sign the papers quickly, things would turn ugly, implying he would try to crucify her image publicly to his million followers. He was very close to doing a video 'manifesto' on his wife in which he would detail all of her wrongdoings to the public, but his therapist managed to dissuade him, suggesting that airing dirt on your soon-to-be ex-wife might not be the best course of action. His community was anticipating this manifesto for the entertainment of the drama, so Steven sheepishly apologized to them for 'soying out.'

Destiny's audience is often referred to as cultish. His reddit forum often bans people for VERY mild criticism (you can be unbanned, but you have to ask for it which discourages people who find that process a bit demeaning). Destiny, as one can imagine, is extraordinarly good at weaving a narrative and defending it. This is why when these completely unhinged incidents are brought up his community will rush to his defense to exonerate him in any way possible. If you bring up the DDOS kid story, they will defend it by saying he was just fantasizing about it - which is absolutely not true, and there are also numerous times where he justified not the intent, but the action as well. If you bring up the threat of leaking the nudes, they will point out that Destiny added 'What I meant pics about our DMs guys pepelaugh' (which if you're not a fan of him you obviously realize is mentioned for plausible deniability / optics), but he's on record saying leaking nudes is absolutely justifiable in that situation.
If there indeed is a DTG episode about him coming up I think these situations must be addressed as well.

I am not The OOP, OOP is u/dorkvader23
Bride made a profit on bachelorette trip!! (SIL drama)
Originally posted to weddingshaming
Thanks to u/Kresley for suggesting this BoRU
TRIGGER WARNING: financial exploitation, controlling behavior, theft, fraud, manipulation, mentions of mental health issues, body image insecurity, infidelity
Forced to wear revealing bridesmaid dress!! Jan 20, 2024
I miss the days when bridesmaids were treated like people and not like stage props! My future SIL is getting married so of course I’m a default bridesmaid. She didn’t give us options for the dress, she picked it out and told us it’s the one we’ll be wearing.
The dress is a strapless, backless, thigh slit halter neck. I am a larger girl - triple D chest should explain why I don’t wear backless or halter styles. Backless means I can’t wear any form of supportive bra AND there is virtually no shapewear I can put underneath it. The only bras that work are stickies or tape, which do not hold me up in the least.
I tried the dress on….my chest is spilling out the sides, back rolls are on full blast, and I am popping out of this thing every which way. I’m so uncomfortable. I basically told the bride sorry, I know it’s your big day but there is no way I’m wearing this dress. My body shape is different from the rest of the bridal party and I can’t justify wearing it.
I told her I’d be fine if I can simply modify it to be more conservative at the back and chest. She DECLINED and told me to “just be more confident in myself” because all the dresses must be identical for photos.
I have no body confidence issues, there are plenty of styles that suit my figure. It just so happens that this dress was not made for larger women and does not look appropriate on my body.
I want to drop out of the wedding but my family insists I stay in because it’s my SIL and it would “ruin” the wedding and the relationship.
I don’t get why I should have to be paraded around in front of my entire family, extended family, friends, colleagues, neighbors, etc in an outfit that makes me uncomfortable. It’s just getting ridiculous.
Brides - please have enough tact to make sure your girls are comfortable on your special day. We’re humans, not props.
RELEVANT COMMENTS
beckerszzz

Did she not go shopping with her bridesmaids to try on the dresses? I feel like this would have solved all the problems.

OOP

Nope, she chose one online (no consulting with any of the bridesmaids.) I know a few of the other BMs were irked because they would have liked to have a say in the dress, but ultimately no one else complained to her face. The rest of the group is fairly tiny so I’m sure they’re ok in the dress even if it’s not their first choice

~
gnosticnightjar

Can anyone link to a similar dress? I’m having a very hard time picturing what a dress that is backless but also both strapless and a halter top looks like. Aren’t strapless and halter mutually exclusive?

OOP

Yes……so a backless halter dress.

———————-
UPDATE
First of all thank you so much for all the support. I appreciate your helpful advice and suggestions. On that note, I’ve decided to stay in the wedding to avoid sending my mother to an early grave.
HOWEVER!!! I’ve also decided I’ll be wearing the sh*t out of this dress and making sure the center of attention is not on the lovely bride. I tried to resolve the issue with tact and class and was shot down, so I feel I’ve earned the right to be petty.
I’m going to order some really specific shapewear which can be concealed under what little material this dress has (kudos to you all who sent me suggestions!!) I’ll be going FULL side boob, FULL shimmer added on the exposed back, and FULL body oil on the legs for the thigh slit. I’ll be doing an updo on the hair so there is nothing getting in the way of this dress 💃🏻 I’ll be wearing a shawl for everything else, but TRUST that for the ceremony I’ll be looking like Salma Hayek in Dusk till Dawn.
Let’s see what she thinks about this “body confidence” she asked me to find. GIRL please!
If anyone is curious I’ll most likely come back in May to post my pics!!
Bride made a profit on bachelorette trip!! (SIL drama) Jan 23, 2024
SO MUCH TEA. I’m glad I can spill to my Reddit community because I can’t gossip about it to my family!
SO - about 6 months ago the bride planned her destination bachelorette trip and charged each of the 11 girls $650 for the Airbnb. I was salty about the high cost but it’s my SIL so I sucked it up and paid her. I also was suspicious about the high AF price so I did cross check the Airbnb listing and it checked out. (Yes this b wanted a $2300/night beachfront house.)
Well today I’m chatting about wedding stuff with my brother (who is marrying future SIL) and he said something along the lines of “what a relief her dad paid for the Airbnb because that would have been so expensive for your group.”
I about choked! I said hey are you sure about that because all 11 girls paid $650 for the house alone. Maybe run it by her…:..his face turned purple so I take it he had no idea.
To add to the greed going on here - when I got married I flew her out, paid for her accommodations, paid hair and makeup, paid for her bridesmaid dress, and paid transportation because she was going through a hard time. Now she has the balls to steal from me.
I get that weddings are expensive but don’t have one if it requires stealing from your BMs. I’m assuming I’m the only BM who is aware of what’s going on here. Not sure if I should spill to the group or just let it go……
There’s a chance her dad stepped in and paid for it after the fact, and she just chose not to refund us. I’m not clear on the exact situation and want to avoid embarrassing my brother.
——————
UPDATE 1- 1/23/2024
Thanks for all the advice and support! Yes - I agree with most of you who are saying I’m morally obligated to spill the beans because $650 is not child’s play.
This is what I’m going to do. First, I’m going to talk to my brother and give him a chance to clear it up with SIL. Before I make a scene, I want to understand what’s really going on. For example, did daddy pay for the trip but SIL decided to put that towards a different wedding expense? Things like that.
That answer will determine when/how I tell the rest of the BMs. Im going to give my brother only 1-2 days because this trip is literally next week.
Stay tuned for update #2
——————————
UPDATE 2 - 1/26/2024
Alright so I regrouped with my brother. My mom also stepped in, bypassed my brother, and got some more info directly from her dad! HERE’S THE TEA - future SIL’s dad did not offer to cover the cost until a few months after we all paid for the trip. This was after he found out the cost and was pissed that she chose a $2300/night house and asked us to pay. Apparently he threatened not to pay for the wedding if she added more expenses onto the wedding party. Turns out she originally wanted it at the Maldives and he forbid her!
According to my mom who chatted with him directly, he felt embarrassed when he heard about the Airbnb price and wanted to save face with my side of the family. So he gave SIL about $7k to cover the cost of the house. She was supposed to refund us but obviously that never happened.
THIS IS WHERE IT GETS GOOD - so my mom went total FBI and learned that in addition to not paying us, SIL didn’t put the money towards a different wedding expense either. SHE DOESNT HAVE IT. So where did it go?? What did she spend it on??
There is currently a FULL BLOWN INVESTIGATION going down between our two families rn!
I have been asked by my mom not to alert the BMs just yet until we get the last bits of info AND come to a resolution with both SIL and her dad. But we WILL tell them asap one way or another.
I will come back tomorrow with another update!! Wow, CRAZY.
—————————
UPDATE 3 - 1/27/2024
The plot thickens!! So as this drama is all unfolding, the maid of honor (who doesn’t know what’s going on yet) is continuing her duties. We all get a 4-paragraph text from her outlining the dress code for each night of the bachelorette, per the brides orders. Keep in mind the bride is asking us all to go out and buy new outfits for each night of the trip. And the themes are WILD - animal print Thursday, Faux Fur Friday, Sparkle Dress Saturday, and Barbie brunch Sunday.
As if we’re all going to go out and buy that sh*t one week before the trip (or at all!!) Thankfully the BM’s seem to be waking up to the BS. Several of them wrote back saying they won’t be able to pull together those outfits in time, and one flat out said it’s just not going to happen.
But that’s just a side story to the absolute sh*t show that is unfolding.
My mom is very involved now as she’s paid a decent chunk of this wedding as well, and does NOT like that the bride is throwing around THOUSANDS of dollars from her dad as well as lying to the bridal party.
SHE SET UP A MEETING directly with SIL to cut the BS and explain what’s going on. She told SIL she’s going to inform the BM’s herself unless she gets a valid answer.
At this point I’m just shoveling down popcorn waiting for the events to unfold.
I will be back tonight with hopefully the final update!!
————————
UPDATE 4 - 1/29/2024
A SWAN ICE SCULPTURE.
She used the $7k to book a swan shaped ice sculpture to be displayed at the reception and didn’t tell anyone.
Turns out her dad banned her from adding any more “extras” to the wedding design because it was already so expensive and unnecessary.
When he venmoed her for the Airbnb, she thought she was being sneaky and kept it instead. She didn’t even tell my brother this - he only found out that her dad decided to cover the Airbnb because those two went out for cigars one night and it came up.
So that mystery is solved thanks to my mini FBI crew - but now the REAL questions remain. Where tf is my $650 and how to break the news to the BM’s!??
Out of the kindness of her SOUL my mom is giving SIL 24hrs to confess to the bridesmaids and figure out how to pay us back our money. Because you know what, I did not spend $650 on some damn ICE!!!!! I have kids to feed! I have BILLS TO PAY.
It is taking everything in me not to text the BM group right now but my mom is trying to give SIL one opportunity to do the right thing.
This has been a roller coaster - don’t know if anyone here is still interested, but let me know if I should post the final outcome with the BM’s in one last update.
Lord have MERCY.
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UPDATE 5 - 2/5/2024
Ok - as promised here is the latest tea, served BOILING hot. This is a long update and I’m going to try and get everything in.
First let’s start with the bride’s explanation to her family: myself, my mom, my brother (her fiance) and her dad. She broke down crying saying that wedding planning has been getting to her head, and she has been “crushed” under the pressure to have the perfect wedding. Which she felt couldn’t go on without this alleged Ice Swan.
I didn’t buy her sob story. After this whole incident I think she is a delusional, controlling, attention-starving bridezilla who is using the wedding as a way to compete with other girls on instagram. Btw her job is “influencer” if I didn’t mention that yet.
My brother took the bait. To be honest, I don’t even blame him. This is his future wife, and he said he wants to help her with her mental health and get her back to a good place. He is disturbed by the situation but will continue to support her. The wedding is on, for those who were curious.
Next let’s get into the matter of the missing $7K and whether we’re getting our money back. The sad, gut wrenching answer: probably not. Her dad said he has already paid the Airbnb cost once and he will not do it again. He said his daughter is 31 and needs to get herself out of her own mess and figure out how to make it right. She chimed in that the $7K is gone and asked how she would possibly pay us back. My brother refused to pay for her screw up.
While I love that everyone is finally forcing this b to be an adult, I would like my money back more. Unfortunately we’re not going to get it unless she magically wins the lottery or gets a real job. For those that asked, there is nothing we can do legally. We all willingly paid a fixed amount and we would have to move mountains (and spend more $$$) to sue. Plus, while she was incredibly shady and a terrible friend, she technically didn’t do anything wrong that we could prove.
Now onto the bridesmaids. After some threats from my mom, SIL finally broke down and contacted the BMs in our group chat. She sent a text that made my skin crawl:
“Hey Ladies! You’re my bride squad so I feel compelled to share that my dad recently offered to pay for our bach accommodations. However, being that the wedding is so expensive, I have decided to put his donation towards a wedding expense. I hope you all understand and I can’t wait to party with you all next week!”
Oh HELL no. I immediately replied back making sure everyone knew the “expense” was an ice sculpture. AN ICE SWAN!! Come ON PEOPLE! Many of them replied and expressed how they would have loved to use that $650 for something more important. But ultimately no one has backed out…..one of the girls started a side chat without the bride and asked if there is any chance of getting our $$ back if we force SIL to cancel the reservation. Unfortunately since we’re only a week out, we aren’t eligible for a refund. They decided to go through with the bach or else it would be a literal waste of $650.
As for myself…..I’m in the same boat. I would rather run myself over than go on this trip. But $650 is not a small amount and I can’t fathom just throwing it down the drain. I haven’t made my final decision yet. If I do go, it will solely be to avoid eating the $650 plus my airfare. I will not be doing any of the planned events or outfits, or contributing even $1 more. I would have my own mini vacation as best I can.
Im really upset that it seems like this crazy person is going to get her way after all!!
MINI UPDATE 5.a - 2/10/2024
There are so many curious comments coming in so I want to keep you in the loop!! More drama has unfolded among the bridesmaids.
The side-text without the bride popped off and we have all agreed to do the following:

1. We will be going on the trip, but it is NO LONGER a bachelorette trip. We will all be taking personal vacations with our hubbies/significant others while staying at the property. We were forced into this beachfront mansion + airfare, so we’re going to make the most of it.
   
2. We have all backed out of hosting and paying for the bridal shower. The bride will need to find another way to move forward if she wants to have it. We will attend as guests if she has it, and we will not be gifting anything. Mother of the bride is absolutely furious. More on this later.
   
3. We’re letting the bride know she needs to cancel the Ice Swan ™ and give us our money back. After some more research, we doubt all of the $7k went towards the alleged swan because it doesn’t seem liken they cost that much.
   

I won’t be back for a while because I want to save my next update for after the trip! Stay tuned.
FUN FACT
This is not one of my updates but I thought you guys might like to know that bored panda picked up this story 😂
Check it out: link to article
I will be back around Tuesday with the FINAL post bachelorette trip update!
RELEVANT COMMENTS/ADDITIONAL INFO
Perspex_Sea

Info: I need to know if you're also paying for your own dress, shoes, make up, hair on top of this.

OOP

Yes - everything. A $350 dress (I have a whole other post about that scandal) $150 hair, $150 makeup, $200 shoes, and I haven’t done jewelry yet. Oh and the bridal shower cost is being split among the 11 girls, PLUS the shower gift, PLUS the wedding gift from me and hubby.
I truly hope bridesmaids go out of style in the very near future…..I go broke every time and on top of that you end up slaving away for some bridezilla.
Not all brides are like this. I’ve been in a few weddings that were really great. THIS is not one of those times.

~
SouthernCrime

So, you have paid $650 for the Airbnb but now you have the added expenses of everything on the trip on the 4 coordinated outfit activities with her sparkly, furry, barbie dresses. (So glad yall just dismissed those!!)
Why do these sad sad women think they need to beat everyone on IG instead of just sticking to a reasonable budget and having a good, stress free wedding.

OOP

Oh helllll no. IF I go, I will not be doing any of the planned outfits or events. I’ll most likely have my own mini vacation so as not to eat the cost of my airline ticket on top of everything else - which I already paid for too

~
Tis_But_A_Scratch-

Good LORD. $650 is good money to anyone not absolutely rolling in the stuff. Honestly if my friend or family expected me to fork out 650, I’d tell them to take a hike off a short pier.
When I got married, I paid for hotels, meals, everything related to my wedding. Guests just had to show up.

OOP

Yes - this exactly. I got married out of the country, which tbh was a way to cut my guest list down to only 15 people. With that said, we paid for flights, accommodations, BM dresses and haiMUA, no bridal shower / no bach, and all the guests had to do was show up and have a good time. And yes, future SIL was part of that group.
The petty part of me wants to send her the bill of her costs from my wedding! If I could go back in time….

~
Castianna

Whatever happened to just going out to dinner and maybe a few drinks with your girlfriends? Shadiness aside, this just seems like a lot of work and I'm experiencing secondhand exhaustion.

OOP

Weddings and all the events that go with them have gotten completely out of control lately. And while this one is pretty extreme, I’m in 3 other weddings this year which are equally involved and expensive. And why is it only the BM’s who are victim to the extreme cost and all the labohard work that goes into it?
Looking at my brother and the groomsmen - the bachelor party was a short drive up to the mountains where they stayed (for free) at a friend’s place, hung out, had some beers, and wished my brother well. Meanwhile the BM’s are spending our life savings, using up PTO, and putting in Olympic sport effort just to get through the bachelorette alone. Not to mention the bridal shower and all the other things still to come.
Sorry to create another rant but I am so over weddings and bridezillas.

FINAL UPDATE 6 - 2/17/2024
Warning - this is a long one.
The absolute TEA I have today. It took me so long to write this because I am at a complete and utter LOSS FOR WORDS.
Where to begin 🐸☕️ ….
Let me start with this: there is no Ice Swan. There never was an ice swan. It was all an elaborate fabrication designed to distract everyone from where the missing $7k actually went.
RIP Ice Swan ™
Turns out there was a reason behind SIL’s luxury bachelorette location. Here’s what happened - all the bridesmaids show up to the beachfront mansion with our significant others. SIL had already been made aware that it was no longer a bachelorette, but to our complete shock, she was still stunned that we actually meant it.
She arrived last in her pre-booked limo absolutely FUMING that no one else showed up to the limo meeting spot at the airport. She was the only one still sticking to the original itinerary. Then she was flabbergasted that the husbands/SO’s were with us. It was a comedy show at best.
Anyway we went about our individual mini vacations and eventually someone realized it had been about 48hrs since anyone had seen SIL. I assumed she was mad and either flew home or went to stay somewhere else.
Then the unthinkable unfolds. SIL rolls up the driveway in a wheelchair being pushed by two female nurses. The entire group jumped into action thinking something horrible happened - everyone ran over to see what was going on but the nurses ushered us away and wheeled SIL into her room.
At this point I’m actually VERY concerned - we’re all banging on her door asking if she’s ok. The nurses eventually leave and say they legally can’t reveal the nature of her health issue but assure us she’s fine. I call my brother and mom but get no answer, so I finally decide to call her mom (aka the mother of the bride, who was FURIOUS that we took over the bachelorette party.) MOB reveals what actually took place.
She isn’t sick, she didn’t have a health issue, there was no accident -
She got her boobs done. 🍈🍈
Yes folks you read that correctly. She had planned - as part of the original itinerary - to disappear for an afternoon and return with a set of new melons.
……..I’m sorry….WHAT?????
The location of the beachfront mansion is conveniently 5 mins away from a very famous cosmetic surgeons office. The reason she needed this giant ass property was not really to host 11 girls, it was to host 11 girls plus the surgery recovery nurses and personal chef she had reserved for after the operation.
There is so much more that we need to unpack, I honestly don’t know where to begin.
• What was her mother’s knowledge/involvement in all this?
• What was the cost of the procedure (GUESSING AROUND $7K) and WHY was it meant to be part of the bach???
• WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE ICE SWAN LIE??? wtf??!?
• will the bridesmaids (myself included) pursue legal action?
• where does this leave my brother? Is this lady OK mentally? Was this a horribly misplaced cry for attention? Was it an FU to the bridesmaids somehow?
So many questions remain….i am only a few hours back from this trip so this is all the information I have right now. I was intending for this to be my final update and I just want to say - thank you ALL for your support, advice, bags of popcorn, and funny input.
This has been a WILD ride and I’m glad I could share it with you. So far we have had this crazy ordeal picked up by a news publication, multiple podcasts, and a magazine. I literally want to write a book about this experience 😂
I’ve already revealed a great deal of info and so to protect my brother’s privacy moving forward, I think I need to step away from the updates.
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
RELEVANT COMMENTS/ADDITIONAL INFO
nunyaranunculus

Oh my god. Are you SURE your brother wasn't in on the theft? Because breast augmentation isn't exactly something you do without consultations and having someone to help you for the ensuing few weeks following the procedure. Did her mother know and was she in on it? I'm assuming FoB and MoB are divorced? If your brother is truly in the dark, his fiancée is throwing red flags around like Oprah threw car keys and he still has time to back out of this.

OOP

So far I know that my brother was aware of the procedure but never imagined our money went towards it. We’re still figuring out exactly where the money went. Apparently there was going to be some grand boob reveal during the bach and we would all celebrate her - I’m still piecing together the details crumb by crumb

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jaduhlynr

I'm guessing she planned on paying out of pocket for the surgery (and having the BMs cover the house), then when the dad offered to pay for the Airbnb she saw the dollar signs and ran with it

OOP

Yeah, we’re assuming this is most likely what happened. I’m still piecing together details about when the hired staff became involved (was this before or after the BM’s backed out?) but at the very least we think she saw an opportunity for free $$$ towards the procedure in one way or another

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BananaIceTea

Nah, this story was kinda believeble at first, but the last few updates were just pure fiction. How did you all managed to organize your spouses to go with you so suddenly? How much was the surgery, personal chef, limo? I just doesnt add up. Especially given the time frame.

OOP

I don’t know all the costs yet or the timeline that she organized all these things - we’re still gathering information 🤷🏻‍♀️ I can’t speak for the other BMs but my husband works remote and was more than happy to tag along. Plus he got to leave the kids at grandmas, which is another incentive lol.
As for the new melons, this is total speculation but I’m betting she has an onlyfans. I know her influencer career (if you can call it that) is not working out, and I have seen several “influencers” switch over to OF.
Not trying to cast even more judgement on her but I just wouldn’t be surprised at this point.

LiberryExpresso

So she gets wheeled past you, you and the bridesmaids find out that she got a boob job with your money, and you all just...left without any follow up discussion? What did the other bridesmaids say? How was there no confrontation with the bride at this point?

OOP

Of course there was confrontation/questions/discussion. It simply has not yielded all the answers yet. We also didn’t chain down the bride and water board her for answers - we took it all in and tried to end our trip on a somewhat normal note 🙂

NEW UPDATES

Not An Update - 2/28/2024
Hey friends! I’m getting boatloads of requests for an update so I’ve decided to make you all a deal - I will come back with an update after the wedding in May. As of right now it is still on!
That’s all I can say for now - check back in May!
CHECKING IN - 3/29/2024
Hi friends, thanks for being so patient for my update. I wanted to let everyone know I have THE UPDATE OF ALL UPDATES coming for you - it turns out the drama just won’t quit with this wedding!!
It is so juicy that for LEGAL REASONS I cannot share it just yet but will be able to post in a day or so.
Check back soon!!!
UPDATE - THE WEDDING IS OFF - 3/30/2024
ALRIGHT Y'ALL - get your comfy socks and your popcorn because I've been holding on to this update for SO LONG and I have to get it all out there. I feel like at this point we've all become good friends - literally when I do these updates I like to imagine we're all together eating snacks and gossiping 😂 I'm on desktop right now so you KNOW I mean business.
ANYWAY - let me start with this: the wedding is officially OFF. I know a lot of you out there were team #CancelTheWedding so this should warm your soul. For me personally, I wanted it to work out for my brother despite her insanity :/ I was kind of hoping this would (somehow) all blow over like a bad dream and he could find normalcy again. Unfortunately that is not at all the case.
Here's what happened: when I last updated you, SIL had pulled up to the bachelorette with a set of new melons and shocked us all. We were left wondering WTF, and I told you I needed to stop the updates to protect my brother's privacy.
Well, that has all changed now and I've been given permission by my brother to spill the f*cking TEA.
My brother was aware that SIL had planned on getting a breast augmentation at some point this year - he actually knew it would be during the bachelorette trip. Despite thinking it was very weird, he really wanted to support her. So he kept her "surprise" a secret. What he did NOT know was that she may have used the bridesmaids money (or even her dad's) to finance it.
But it turns out that she did not in fact use our money or her dad's money to pay for the new titties. That's because her procedure was on the house. Why you ask?
Because she has been having an affair with the surgeon for over a year.
Yes you read that correctly. She's been diddling her married plastic surgeon for more than 14 months. He is a VERY WELL KNOWN PLASTIC SURGEON and his legal team has been ON ME LIKE WHITE ON RICE. There are limits to what I can disclose. At this current moment I have been advised not to disclose the state he practices in, his name, or any personally identifying details.
Back to the story….
He wanted to fly her out for a complimentary titty upgrade!! We found out because his WIFE found her sad little influencer IG page, tracked her down, AND SHOWED UP TO THE FAMILY HOME!!! Which would be her father's house because she still lives there.
There is so much more to say that I think I'm going to have to split this into 2 updates because my fingers are legit going numb. I REALLY wanted to get that off my chest. I know you might be wanting to know the specifics like:
• So WHERE did the money go after all??
• How did the wife find out and what happened when she showed up?? (That's an update in ITSELF!!)
• How is my brother handling this? (besides of course leaving her dusty ass)
• What did SIL have to say for herself?
I PROMISE I will be back to finish this horror story!!!
UPDATE - SOME LIGHT HOUSEKEEPING - 4/1/2024
A few housekeeping items before I share the next update:
• I thought you all should know that I now have to submit all of my updates to an attorney for legal review before I can post them here. This is primarily because of the high profile surgeon (who is aware of this thread) and his legal team. The wife is also in the mix and wants to minimize fallout, so I'm dealing with her people as well. They can’t stop me from telling the story but they CAN come after me if I disclose specific things. Basically everyone knows about this post now (SIL included) but I PROMISE I'm coming back to finish spilling the TEA for you all on that. Ready your kettles!!! 🫖🫖🫖
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• The support/interest/fan club vibes this post generated has been amazing. Thank you guys so much for sticking with me on this crazy ride!! 💗
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• With the support has also come some negativity - I am being impersonated online in a few places, and some people are trying to profit on this story by claiming it as their own. To combat this, I've listed my own information at the top of this post - anyone else is impersonating me and if you spot this story circulating online without directly tagging my IG or Reddit, it's not authentic.
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• Due to the above, I've decided to copyright this content and will continue to amend it as I make the updates. Who knows, maybe SIL will star in a tv series or book about this nightmare one day! 📚
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• I've had some requests to timestamp my previous updates so new readers can get a better timeline. I backdated all of my updates - please go easy on me as I can't remember the exact dates I came back to edit this post, so most dates are approximate. 📆
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• Shout out to the podcasts and other channels who have picked this up for a live reading! The ones I'm aware of include ThreadTalk and Charlotte Dobre. I LOVE listening to these - it's a cool perspective, so feel free to DM me if you come across any others! 🎤
BE BACK SOON!
New update - Instagram Apr 7, 2024
Transcribed
hey friends Juliet Pepperwood here with episode 7 of the Reddit story bride who made a profit on Bachelorette sister in law drama and for those who have been followving since the beginning.
So this one will be brand new. No matter what you're watching or reading the story and now it's time to spill some of the final tea in this crazy kettle, and let me tell you it is piping hot. So here we go.
Let me start by refreshing you memory. At this point in time the wedding is off. My brother has learned about SIL's affair with the plastic surgeon and he called off the engagement, called off the wedding. It is danzo not happening. Also the bridesmaids who had initially assumed that the missing $7000 went towards the melon job, we are now aware that the procedure was free it was on the house. So we still don't know where it went.
Let's start with the affair. So much of this information in fact the vast majority of the information is second hand provided to me by my brother. With permission to share with you all. So when he called off the engagement, my brother asked exSIL to give him the whole truth, it was the least she could do. He just wanted to know honest to God what happened. And this is what I learned.
The wife of the surgeon apparently learned about the affair thanks to a pair of Tiffany diamond earrings which went missing from her jewelry collection and at some point she goes down to the hospital to bring her husband lunch then she sees a female patient wearing the exact pair of Tiffany diamond earrings that she has lost. And yes you guessed it, that patient was our bride. Now I don't know the timeline of when the wife realized that the earrings were missing and started those suspicions, but I do know that she would have seen SIL wearing those earrings at the hospital while she was there getting her consult for the free melon job and this would have been long before the bachelorette trip. Most likely on one of their earlier visits while SIL was flying in and out of town to see him.
Now she did as part of her confession to my brother that she did steal the diamond earrings from the wife during one of the times that she was at the surgeons house. This crazy bat stole the earrings of the wife and if you ask me that is a whole other basket of cuckoo crazy but alas.
So the surgeon demands the earrings back according to SIL. So he either realized that she stole them or the wife had or the wife would have had to bring it up to him and say; hey I'm missing these earrings, I saw this girl in your office wearing them. What's up?
So he's demanding the earrings back and here's the kicker. She doesn't have them. She doesn't have the earrings. She claiming that she lost them. I don't know if she got rid of them. Did she burn them? Was she you know batshit crazy off her rocker? Obviously yes. But the earrings aren't in her possession anymore. So she asks how much do they cost I'm just going to pay you back for the earrings and were gonna move on and continue with our messed up affair. Turns out they cost about $7500 from Tiffany's.
And there you have it folks. Just like that the mystery of the missing $7000 is solved.
So at the time when she was starting to plan this bachelorette trip and then her father comes along offering to cover the cost of the Airbnb she probably sees a golden ticket to recoup almost the full amount of money she needed to pay back the stolen earrings. And she did admit to my brother that she sent her dad's money to the surgeon after he had offered to pay for the Airbnb.
So the surgeon has our missing $7000 and to be quite honest I don't know who is worse. Someone who would start an affair, steal from the wife and then rob their bridesmaids to pay back the cost or the surgeon who continued the affair after learning the mistress stole from his wife. I mean these two were just made for each other.
So I'll never know if the surgeon gifted his wife a new pair of diamond sparklers from Tiffanys with the money but I do know that she was obviously suspicious. I mean one or another this lady found out. Could have been from bumping into SIL at the hospital and seeing the earrings which would be my best guess or it could have been something else that set her off later and caused her to find out. But she ended up at the family home so obviously she knew something was up.
I know that social media was part of the way that she tracked SIL down. So she obviously had her name in advance. Could have been from the hospital? Maybe not because my understanding is that's not allowed, like I don't think you're allowed to disclose patient information. Not sure if it was that but regardless of how she got the name, sure anyone with the name in a mission can find an address online and unfortunately I'm not at liberty to share the details of the confrontation between the wife and SIL. There are just certain things that I cannot get into publicly, that happens to be one of them.
So this update ends here and guys this is the end of the kettle. You know all the tea has been spilled and it was boiling hot thanks to you guys helping me spill it. And I'll tell you what, I will be back with at least one update on how my brothers doing. I'm rooting for him, you're rooting for him. We all want to see him recover so I'll keep you in the loop. I'll let you know how he's holding up.
But for now that is the end of this wild ride and I want to thank each and everyone one of you for your support in helping me spill the tea. Until next time.
A picture of Tiffany Earrings for $7600

EDITORS NOTE: The mods of weddingshaming made a rebuttal post concerning rumors surrounding OOP declaring she was banned or removed.

EDITORS NOTE 2: OOP's Ban coincided at a time reddits servers were having issues
To address the misrepresentation of the SIL Bachlorette Boob Job post being taken down
THIS IS A REPOST SUB - I AM NOT THE OOP
DO NOT CONTACT THE OOP's OR COMMENT ON LINKED POSTS, REMEMBER - RULE 7

so like around july 2022, there is some rumor going on that one of my mutuals and friend (an 22M adult) was caught in a NSFW roleplay sexting with an alleged minor. The minor went MIA last year, around July 2022.
last year, September 10th to be exact, I found her back on Twitter, posting weird sexual pictures, nudes and possibly messaging pedophiles. I tried to get her to DM me and have a conversation about my friend to get her side of the story and convince her to stop posting photos of herself but she blocked me immediately (I probably know why so I’ll explain below). Now, someone who was involved with her (her close friend) is speaking for her and said how she doesn’t want to talk about what happened in july 2022 between her & my friend.
THE STORY: let’s refer the mutual/friend as (X) & the minor as (M)
i confronted X and he explained his side of the story about what happened about how he didn’t know how old she was (he claimed that he assumed her age because M was openly in the NSFW community) and how he was in the wrong for not asking her age first. half of the info from the exposure thread on twitter wasn’t accurate if i matched it with his story but it still happened so I don’t really TRUST him since this occured.
but, he did explain what happened and he couldn’t remember who she was because she kept getting suspended but we found her previous alias. X’s story matched when I managed to find proof on the Wayback Machine of her tweets when the situation occurred. for example, she had a “teacher kink” and she was an NSFW account with 2k followers. but, there were tweets of her that were about being attracted to “MAPS” which were obvious that meant she was a child, there was also archived tweets of her CP. i collected proof of her tweets on the archive, and showed it to X. he was shocked, not knowing she was a minor and told me he was going to turn himself in, report to the police and show the tweets I sent, but he didn’t provide proof that he reported the incident.
this was stupid because he said he saw her tweeting about how she told people not to report her account and how she was really “18 years old” like that was very obvious. i found out she had made a few other new accounts after but I didn’t get a chance to DM her because they got suspended too. it all led to a personal private account and the bio said “i’m not a sexual account anymore leave me alone”. it remained inactive probably about a year until September 2023, that same account was back to being public and she was posting inappropriate media again. so, back from the beginning, I tried to get her to DM me and she blocked me.
i completely understand why she would block me ASAP, due to being heavily uncomfortable about the subject, but i’m not trying to victim blame her because i’m unbiased until the facts are straight because she’s hiding some stuff from her side of the story and i have my suspicions so i’ll explain why. let’s get to the facts about the thread from july 2022.
HOW THE EXPOSURE THREAD STARTED: Let’s refer to the man who had the info and wrote the thread about X and M, as (C)
C also knew M through discord, C was asking questions from M about the encounter of her with X. after the “interview”, C messaged somebody on twitter because he wanted them to be the messenger and post a thread about it, he shared screenshots of the DMs of X and M sexting, he also had screenshots of the conversation between him and M on discord, where M tells her story about X about how he wanted to DM her and would only follow her if she set her account on private. so, this would mean that C knew who M was. he knew that little kid was showing herself on twitter and talking to pedos and did nothing about it. nobody knew the minor was an NSFW account because it wasn’t mentioned in the july 2022 thread, so everyone only heard “minor gets sexually harassed by an adult”.
months later, C got exposed for talking to a different minor and sent his nudes i think, this was ironic as hell
i tipped about this to the FBI last year in september when i found out she started posting pics of showing herself again but i haven’t been updated about anything. PLEASE LET ME KNOW ANY OTHER PLACE WHERE I CAN REPORT THEM ALL.

not sure what i'm looking for here- maybe some validation that i made the right choice?
I started seeing my ex (28M) last August, made it official October. He had been very open and forward about seeing a future together and wanting something with me, and after some time I realized that I also saw him in that light. This might seem strange to some of you, but dating isn't a thing in our culture, and us choosing to be together was because we saw an end goal together.
Over time though, I started noticing some disturbing discrepancies. The past few years I have really been working on myself and got to a place where I felt comfortable voicing issues and going after what I want, and so I started bringing these issues up. I was always met with "I'm working on it" or "I'm sorry" etc etc but it never seemed to be better. For example:
- I let him know my time is very valuable to me and I usually do not like people being late. He got some grace as we were in an LDR, but that turned out to be hours late at a time for a visit, showing up at 1 AM, one time showing up 2 days late, etc etc. I tried to be as kind as I could about it, but I also was very honest about my distaste for this. Whereas whenever I visited, I would inconvenience myself and be there at an agreed upon time, and then still be waiting as he was running late.
- Whenever he went through a hard day, he would completely stop existing. I mean, no calls or texts, no responses, just completely MIA. This is not okay to me in a relationship and I voiced that, and so we reached a mutually agreed upon point that he would just let me know he's having a hard time and I would leave it alone. I didn't love this as I think a relationship involves people sharing, but gave room for this as it was his first relationship.
- This one I was ready to call it quits over - he told me about a trip he's going on with his friends. Called me while boarding his flight, called every four hours from the resort, showed me around, sent pics, etc. I was happy at being included in his life. Until I realized how big of a group went on this trip, and that some of my own acquaintances were on this, and that it was in the US, and not some Caribbean nation (which I was consistently being told). I couldn't even fathom what sort of lie this was?? So as soon as he arrived back to his hometown, I just called and asked if he'd like to explain to me why this happened. And then I let him know that I'm not interested in being in any sort of relationship where my trust is taken for granted, and that he has completely lost credibility. What followed is days of apologies and him showing up at my door (drove 4 hours and showed up at 2 am) and the most sincere apology I have ever gotten. Not sure if it was the correct move, but I agreed to let it go the one and only time.
- A couple weeks later, a random argument in which he called me wild, emotional, sometimes ignorant, and ghetto. When I called him out on how inappropriate this was, to literally label my personality this way, he backtracked and said it was just out of anger. I wasn't sure what to make of this but I cried for days on end. It is so hurtful to have facets of your personality be attacked, you can't even fix those. And especially when they're not valid.
- Another argument re distance and he shows up again - I tell him its inappropriate to show up 2 DAYS after the agreed upon date, that the hail marys aren't working, that he knows he's pushing me away and I am running out of the bandwidth to keep at it this many times. He agrees to work on it and do better.
- Next time we see each other, I let him know that these turn of events just have me feeling like I am not good enough. Like nothing I do is ever enough and these actions have me feeling like garbage. And he breaks down and says that he isn't good enough for me, and that we're working on it. Randomly starts sharing locations with me?
- Now its the end of February, things are okayish, we're spending some time together. Another trip with friends (the correct location) and this time its a once a day text that's just pictures, no convo. And its reallly starting to get to me that we are not even talking, so I ask to connect once he gets back. We have a short convo but he seems out of it, I try again the next few days and then give up. The following week I call him crying that we can't even talk, that I am singlehandedly putting in effort, that I have not felt wanted in this in a long time, and I am not sure what went wrong and how to fix it. And I feel so so horrible all the time and just want to talk and fix it, but I have to stand my ground and voice when things are bad - I show up and put in the work, and I deserve the same.
- The next two weeks are filled with meaningless checkins (like genuinely just the word check in) until I snap and say I would like to talk when he has the bandwidth, but other than that I am not interested in a 3rd week of obscure silence. We don't ever get to connect, 3 days later I give up and remove him from all social media, and stop sharing my location. Then I get a text saying he misses me, we need to talk more, he's only catching up via IG. And that really pisses me off and I detail that I've given him his space but I want to be with someone who actually wants to be with me, and am met with some sort of obscure answer of how he wants to be with me but is scared at the speed of things (the only person controlling speed is him, as one day he'd ask to meet my parents and the very next day he'd say things are fast. and I hadn't even had time to do the task). Long story short, I gave up. I then got a text that night asking to talk about our days, how he had a bad one, etc. I ignored it. Next day, asking to facetime. I ignored it, I had nothing to say.
- Now we haven't talked in a week, and he is just requesting access to my IG again. I see him posting obscure things in relations to my posts, constantly getting notifs that he viewed my tiktok profile, and then nothing.
I am just so wholeheartedly confused at this whole relationship. I can't figure out what went wrong, what I did wrong, what I am supposed to learn from this, how to stop being sad, did he even understand that I ended things, should I be sad at letting go, etc. etc. I am looking to get a stranger's opinion on this so I can get out of my head. I just can't stop being sad...

I am not the OOP. The OOP is u/throwra_lastcoyote17 posting in relationship_advice
Ongoing as per OOP
Content Warning - child abuse
1 update - Medium
Original - 21st November 2024
Update - 16th March 2024
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My (M27) wife (F26) crossed the only line I ever set with her. How can I forgive her?
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My (M27) wife (F26) crossed the only line I ever set with her. How can I forgive her? My wife and I have known each other for 10 years, and got married in 2018. We have very different lifestyles, she's a very devout Mormon and I am not religious. We found some way to make it work, it was a hard road, but there are some challenges still, but we love each other very much.
She has never met my biological mother. My parents were divorced long before I met her, and I broke contact with my mom after I turned 18. My mom was extremely abusive towards me growing up. She physically abused me and my sister regularly and tried to frame it on my father. She was able to manipulate a doctor to give me multiple medications growing up and she'd steal the meds. Her dirt boyfriend also tried to be abusive to me too. I cut my losses and cut all contact with my mother and her family. So did my sister.
My parents (Dad and step-mom) didn't approve of my wife at first because of her religion, but they get along now. When my wife asked me when shed meet my mom, I told her she never would, she's a violent and terrible woman and she has no place in my life and I didn't want her involved in ours. I also told her not to contact anyone in my mom's family.
Recently, my mom showed up at my work, which she had no knowledge of. It got ugly, and police had to be called to remove her from the property. It was such an embarrassment. When I got home, I told my wife, and she just had her, "oh shit" look on her face. I asked what that was about, she confessed she reached out to my mom and told her where I worked because my mom wanted to make amends. My wife's beliefs are that everyone deserves forgiveness and doesn't believe something could be unforgivable.
I told her that violated the one thing I told her was out of bounds and didn't even tell me until shit hit the fan. She of course has been apologetic, I told her we'd get there, but I needed to get through it. I've been sleeping in the office at home, and we've barely spoken since. We are supposed to travel to her parents for Thanksgiving, but I'm really considering staying home with the dogs so I can sort myself out. I'm not sure how to get over this.
(Edit: added that she's met my stepmom. She's also fully aware of what my mom did to us.)
(TLDR; My wife connected with my abusive mom that I cut contact with and it cause a scene at work and the police to be involved. She admitted to doing it behind my back and I'm just beyond upset. I don't know how to forgive her)
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Comments
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Powerful-Bug3769
This would be akin to my husband bringing the person who molested me when I was a child back into my life. This would be an absolute deal breaker for me. My spouse is my safe space, and if they took that safety away there is nothing left. I am so sorry.
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teniaret

My spouse is my safe space, and if they took that safety away there is nothing left.

Perfectly worded, I hope OP reads this
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femaelstrom
Former Mormon here. Atheist now. (Hi, OP. Hope I can help.) Mormons emphasize forgiveness and reconciliation, no matter what. This is a bonkers approach and it damages people and families and lives. Your wife is trying to make it right with family. She has no idea the damage she has caused to you or your family or your mutual relationships; or is capable of causing. THIS DOES NOT MAKE HER INNOCENT. It just makes her rigidly committed to a point of view, probably; and in a very unhelpful way. Please hold her accountable if you want the relationship to continue, and seek counseling (not from the LDS Church, which is also problematic and patriarchal). I hope you can grow beyond this together, or move past this separately.
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Update - 4 months later
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I appreciate the support of those who messaged me. As well as those curious what happened. I didn't expect this to blow up. I'll give an update in chronological order, but trigger warning. Details about childhood abuse is mentioned. (The original post is the only other post on my profile)
Get this out of the way. Mom was served with a restraining order. She can't go on my work property and I suffered no issues at work because of what happened.
Leading up to Thanksgiving, my wife and I sat down to talk. I said I wasn't gonna go to her parents for the holiday and I think it would be best if we had some time apart. She was upset and scared cause she has bad anxiety when she travels far alone. So her sister agreed to travel with her. But in this conversation, I asked to see the messages between her and my mom. My mom had bothered her for months with messages on Facebook asking how I was doing, if I was alive, and saying she doesn't get to hear from her son, ect. That part, is what got my wife to reply with an update on everything. She mentioned what I did at my work and named the place. Which there's only one location in our city. I knew she had been reached out to, as me, my sister and her husband all had. But I didn't know she was constantly harassing my wife like that.
Which, in the time between my mom showing up and this conversation. My mom sent several messages accusing her of "setting her up", "keeping her son from her" and those very pleasant messages.
She went to her parents place. I made burgers and hung out with the dogs on Thanksgiving. I went over to my dad's that Friday while everyone there was out doing black Friday things. We hung up the Christmas lights and I told him what happened. Oddly, my dad didn't have much to say. He asked what I was gonna do. I asked him for a specific file he had and I told him I'd show her the file.
Wife comes home after almost week, and the day after, I sit her down and we have a conversation and I pull out the file. She clearly didn't intend what happened, but she asked if I was divorcing her. I said no, but she needed to have told me what happened and/or blocked her. If she had insisted on messaging my mom. I should have been involved to make a more generic message.
At this point I opened the file, put it in front of her, and she went completely pale. In the file were the pictures of me the night my mom gave up custody. What happened was, we got into a fight over my grades in junior high. My mom started hitting me repeatedly, to the point where her nails had started to cut my face. At this point, I was big enough to stop her. I caught her wrist and I twisted it enough to where she stopped and ran out of the house. The police were called cause my mom said I broke her wrist (I didn't), my dad picked me up, took the photos of my bruised and cut face and my mom released custody to him. A few of these cuts left scars that are still visible on my cheek and side burn area.
After explaining what she was seeing, and she looked through what was in there. I told her she needed to understand she opened the door for my mom to have done this to me again. To my mom potentially doing that to her, and if we had any kids, they'd be at risk for the same abuse. Cause my mom hasn't changed, her messages were the master manipulator going after my innocent wife. She said she didn't know it was this bad and she didn't mean that to have happened. I said we needed to go to therapy as a non negotiable and she agreed.
I caught some heat from her parents for showing her the file. Her parents had me promise them I'd protect her and not, "ruin her innocent view of the world", I guess is the way to word it. She had a very slow grasp of real world things that weren't very present in the church upbringing. Although, they actually agreed she shouldn't have responded to my mom. Which was surprising.
I did some solo therapy before we did our couple's therapy. She was a little upset because I was distant during the holidays. Like I wasn't there. Apparently, I had some kind of repressed or undiagnosed PTSD and I began dissociating again after that happened and that was why I didn't seem like I was present.
I feel like we are making progress. The therapist said my wife had this subconscious desire to fix things and make her "perfect family" because of some issues her parents had and some issues on both sides of her family. So that was likely why she responded without checking with me.
We have stopped trying for a baby for now. Which she's devastated about presently cause one of my step sisters announced she's pregnant and it really kind of hurt her cause she really wants to be a mom. We are spending time together again and sleeping in the same bed. She's tried really hard to make it up to me and she's been trying to read more about abuse and understanding those things. Which is hard for her. We tried to get things back to normal throughout Christmas and New years.
Presently we are doing our therapy every two weeks and I see my therapist the weeks in between. Thinking back, showing her the file with those pictures may have been a step too far. Our therapist said it was probably a lot for her to take in. But I said it in our session and I said it the night of. She needed to completely understand what door she opened and what repercussions could have come from what she did and what could happen to our (theoretical) children if she opens that door again. I'm not sure if there was an alternative to showing her that file, but I think she understands what I really went through.
Now, my wife will sometimes rub the scar lines on my face and just give me this strange look. She never questioned those scars before and she just looks at them like that sometimes.
That's where we are at. I think things are salvageable, as the way things came out before, it seemed like she sought out my mom. But I think she just got played and just attempted to give my mom some peace of mind but unintentionally made a problem that she didn't understand. Thank you again for those who reached out and offered support before.
(Unnecessary to read but for context) The example my wife gave in therapy about me not being present was this. We have a tradition in the 2nd week of December, we go out together, get breakfast and do our Christmas shopping. Usually at target cause she likes getting a Starbucks hot chocolate. But as we'd go through, she'd look back at me and I was often just staring off in the distance or not really giving full answers and I admitted I didn't remember most of what we did that day. Which she was sad because that's one of the things about the holidays she most looks forward to is that day together.
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Comments
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Labyris

I caught some heat from her parents for showing her the file. Her parents had me promise them I'd protect her and not, "ruin her innocent view of the world", I guess is the way to word it.

Does anyone else think this is kind of fucked up? It's this exact innocent view of the world that led her to be taken advantage of. What if the mother got the idea to have OP's wife get them to meet face-to-face for a reunion? There's a difference between one's innocent view of the world being shattered by abuse and knowing enough about the world to not be naive and fall into traps like this. OP's stronger than I'd be in this situation. I wish him and his wife the best.
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MudAny8723
OP, I don't think you did anything wrong by showing her the file. Was it traumatizing for her? Probably, but not nearly as traumatizing as it was for you to experience it when it happened, as well as being retraumatized by her giving out information to your bio mom and her showing up at your work. Your wife knew what happened beforehand and still gave her the information. Even if she was strong armed into it, she still crossed your boundaries and violated your trust. Sometimes, the only way for someone to truly understand the depth of a situation is to show them the horrors that resulted from that situation.
I commend you for working on your marriage and trying to work through this with counseling. Personally, I would have a hard time trusting her again, whether it was malicious or not. I'm big on the idea that marriages can be fixed if both parties are willing to put in the effort and as long as the situation isn't something that can't be redeemed. I hope that you're able to move on from this and find peace with the situation.

OOP I wanted to take a moment to thank you for your comment and addressing the concern about showing her the file and your perspective on this. Thank you.

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Material-Paint6281
I think your wife was a bit naive and not wanting to be argumentative about the issue, she gave some info to keep your mother off. What she didn't know but should've known/learnt is that your mother won't stop there.
Even if you didn't provide any info about your mother's abuse, she owed it to you to talk with you about your mother's attempts and let you handle it (even if it's to ignore her, or say fuck off and block her).
I don't blame you for showing your wife the pics to drive your point, because who knows, maybe after having children your wife may think the child needs all grandparents in its life and reach out to your mother.
So, it's good that you're processing all of this before thinking about children. When both of you are in the right place, and I hope it's soon because you deserve it, you will be able to work past your trauma and live your life happily.

OOP: I think you're 100% spot on. Thank you

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I am not the OOP. Please do not harass the OOP.