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2014.02.01 14:27 tabledresser [Table] I am an Emergency Medicine Doctor that does Helicopter and Rapid Response Car besides hospital duty. AMA!
Questions | Answers |
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Was there any case so bad you thought you wanted to be done with it all? Thank you for doing what you do. I can't say how much I admire people like you. | Yes. I had a premie ( a premature baby) die on me, on Christmas day, while i was transporting him from the maternity to the hospital. There was just nothing i could do to save him, they caught the problem too late(he didn't have a diaphragma and his intestines migrated into his chest and compressed his lungs) and he was too small (900 grams) and too weak. I was devastated, i wasn't a real person for 2 months, just a zombie walking around. I was determined that if they made me transport another baby i would resign and start another job. Eventually i got over it.. I was young and not "dehumanized" like i am now, but even now children hold a special place, i always suffer for children, while adults do not move me almost at all anymore.. |
PS: i might inadvertently use too much information describing medical stuff.. sorry, professional defect. | |
I was young and not "dehumanized" like i am now. What do you mean by dehumanized? | I see sick people as "cases". I don't get emotional about almost anything job related nowadays. i can eat a sandwich while 2 meters away behind a curtains some one is puking his his guts and blood out, and on the other side someone is dying and having CPR done. Or put the food down, go help, wash and come finish my meal. Children still hurt like hell tho. that i don't think i can ever get used to, especially since i have my own. |
Sounds really difficult, how does this dehumanization affect your life outside of work? | I have very little tolerance for hearing people's small ailments and minor hurts. I frequently make a bit of fun of them. "Oh you cut your little finger.. aww man i feel for you. Let me show you this picture of this guy who had both his legs amputated by a train after being electrocuted on the bridge above it and falling 7 meters" Otherwise i'd like to think i'm a pretty normal guy. |
EDIT: might not have been to clear here. I am talking about off the job. like when some relative comes visiting my parents and keeps perstering me about his bad kneee etc. the post i replied to clearly states outside of work. -- On the job, i will listen to your minor problem as patiently as i can and try to treat you as best i can. Doesn't mean i can't think you are a moron for coming to the ER at 2 in the morning with a couch that you had for 2 weeks. --- | |
That settles it. At 2am i'm heading to the ER with my brand new couch. | Haha. caught me. not even gonna edit that one out. |
What is the first thing you notice when you reach a scene? | Number of victims, number of resources i have (doctors, nurses, paramedics, untrained help, police to contain the area or divert traffic), then triage and get dirty.. and we roll from there. Usually all this is takes place while i'm running "from the choppa"/ ambulance to the scene and the first victim. |
How much help is untrained help? | More of a nuisance. |
Have you ever arrived at a fatal scene and there was music playing inside the car? If yes, what songs and did that stay with you in terms of triggering a memory of the accident when you would hear the song again? | No music yet( usually the car is too trashed), or i was too focused on the job to notice it. Also it's part of the protocol for one of the firemen to pop the hood and disconnect the battery to avoid fires. |
You say that you sometimes transport to other countries, which country are you from and to which countries do you transport to and why? | I am from Romania. I've transported to/from Germany, Russia, Turkey, Hungary, but those are pretty rare. We have EC-135 (Eurocopter) as the main model, and sometimes we use older Mi-18 where there are many victims or EC's are unavailable. Here's some pics: Link to www.google.ro |
What kind of helicopter are you flying with and what is the range? Does it have any equipment that is not standard for helicopters, besides the medical equipment? | The one numbered 334 is the one i've flown most of my mission hours in and actually holds a few records in regards to longevity and mission hours among EC-135's. the range? about 500 km.. 2.5 hrs is max with our load if i remember correctly. As for equipment, it's in a medical configuration, but i don't think there are any other mods. I do know pilots use NVG's for night missions. |
Thanks for your reply and thanks for doing this kind of work. Do you transport to other countries because they have better or more specialized hospitals? | Yes and no. Usually it's newborns with congenital heart diseases (malformations), that need to operated in better specialized clinics. Other times it's our citizens that have been injured and need to be brought back home. |
Hi there! Thanks for doing an AMA! Have you ever had to respond to a call, then when you actually got there (or saw the damage) thought to yourself, "Well this was completely unnecessary?" | Actually yes, quite a funny story. We got a call from aparently a desperate woman(dispatch talks to them , not us), about her husband that had "his eye hanging out by a thread". We got send as first responders ( usually we have a paramedic crew go first and call us if it's reall bad), got to 9th floor by elevator carrying all the heavy monitor and kits, then had to climb an extra floor on foot to find the aptment. while we were looking for door numbers, a guy we passed leaving he elevator goes "i think you are here for me?".. we of course rush back down, and notice he only has a small bruise under one eye, and is quite intoxicated. Turns out he was trying to open a PET bottle of fermented wine that had built quite a pressure, the cork popped him in the eye and he couldn't see for a few mins, so he called his wife who wasn;t home who got all hysterical. She actually arrived running from work all crying while we were ushering him into the ambulance.. We still laugh about that.. |
Why are ER doctors looked at as inferior? I would assume that being in emergency medicine would be more difficult than many other fields. | It is widely regaded as the most difficult. Drop rates (in my country at least) are about 50% in the first year, and almost 80% do not finish residency. That impression is because we don't "cure" patients usually. We diagnose, stabilize, start treatment, then move the patients to the department that needs to take further care for them( like surgery, intensive care). Thing is, they have to deal with 1 branch of medicine, wekinda hev to know them ALL.(or at least enough to get by). |
Thank you for the job you do. How bad does the weather have to be to not go on a call and who makes that decision? Are there times when you think your efforts ate being done in futility and they actually make it? | The go/no go are handled exclusively by the pilots. We as medical crew are forbidden to try and influence their decision in any way( for example by insisting that it's a serious case that NEEDS saved, or it's a kid, or anything). There are several categories for weather that they have, and some limits on cloud height, visibility, chance of freeze.. and also both pilots need qualifications for that type of weather. They also need to consider the weather for when we return, or how much time we have before sunset. (Helis are forbidden to land at night unless it's an airport or helipad with appropriate facilities, and we have to take-off from a scene before sunset, which makes for some "interesting situations": Pilot: we need to go in 5 otherwise we sleep here. Me: i need to intubate and put a chest drain. no way i can go in 5 Pilot: ok, you have 6 mins. Me: ... |
Alot of times it's a futile effort..but you do it anyway. Once you get some experience, you can "read" a patient at pretty much a glance. But there have been unexpected survivals and some were really amazing and touching. That's part of what makes this job amazing. | |
I imagine that in emergency responses there often isn't a lot of room for error. | I drink and do alot of drugs. |
Have you ever accidentally done or not done something that did or could have ended badly? | Just kidding. I used to smoke, alot, but i quit. The trick is to have some time to decompress, get a hobby, etc. I Snowboard, play computergames ( a bit too much, but then i was a gamer long before i was a doctor), and play airsoft. |
How do you deal with that kind of pressure? | Regarding errors ,yes, of course. We are human, we make mistakes sometimes. Important thing is to realise and correct it before it's too late. |
Could you share a story, if it isn't too personal, of a time you made a mistake? | I discharged a patient suspected of pneumothorax before waiting to get confirmation from the radiologist because i had looked at the xray and didnt see it, and he was ok clinically. I wrote it off as a cold. He had a small one tho, so next morning i tracked him down, found his grandma at his old adress, got his phone number and called him back to the hospital. He stayed under observation 2 days and got discharged. Would have been fine at home, but i couldn't go to sleep if i just let that go. |
What computer games you play? | LoL mostly lately, don't have time for much now. Indie games off steam, i love the Fallout series, i used to Quake 1 alot, then CS.. anything "good" basically. RPG's, TBS mostly. I still have a special place in my heart and living room for Il2 Sturmovik ( ww2 plane combat sim), which i've played for 6 years. |
I'm one of those nostalgics that sigh about the "good old games" that had "feeling" and rarely get impressd witha game nowadays. | |
Small pneumonthorax, clinically fine, radiologically confirmed? Home with advice on seeking help is the normal treatment, isn't it? | Yes, that's correct, but then again, what if it enlarges and becomse tension pneumo? like i said i couldn't sleep if something like that happened by my fault. |
Are there any scenes from first arrival at an incident that stick out in your memory? | I remember arriving at a multiple victim car crash on the freeway at night and looking around confused because there was no crashed car anywhere, just ambulances. had someone point it out to me, still didn;t see it. It was over 200 meters in the field, and we literally had to step carefully because there were still people thrown from the vehicle that hadn't been found. |
Have you ever had a case so bad that you had to carry out medical measures that wouldn't usually be done near the incident scene? | Quite a few times. I've intubated while they were cutting the car around us, set chest drain on the tram line before geting him in the ambulance, intubated while transporting a patiend down stairs ( he coded).. i have many many stories, and it's that adrenaline rush that makes this an amazing job. |
Thank you for doing this AMA! In situations as dire as these, what would you say the survival rate, or rate that they survive and have most of their brain functions is? I imagine it is very low but I'm not sure. | You would be surprised.. unless severe brain damage most of them survive. |
What is a rapid response car? | In our case it's a Land Rover or Nissan Pathfinder that carries a fireman paramedic( who also drives), a doctor and a nurse ( and sometimes a trainee/volunteer). It's equipped with all the necessary equipment to provide advanced medical care for 1-x patients( monitodefib, ventilator, bags and masks, oxygen, etc.. even BIOHAZARD SUITS!) It get there fast, and then other ambulance arrive which can actually transport the victim/s. |
Also, how has your job affected your spirituality? | I believe in a God, just not the church, or the way they portray Him. I'd say it hasn't really affected my spirituality. |
, thank you for saving lives! Secondly, what has been your proudest moment on the job? And finally, any specific stories that you'd like to share, like the craziest thing, funniest thing, etc? | Saving a 700 gram 28week premie that was in cardiac arrest when i got to him. That was the trickiest intubation of my life, and under the most pressure. He lived at least for another 2 weeks at the hospital, haven't checked after because.. i don't really wanna know if he made it or not. He made it so far because of me.. thats enough for me. |
Is there a certain injury you get called out for more often than others ? | If you can call Death an injury, i'd guess that's it. Cardiac Arrest is the most frequent call while on ambulance/RRC, car crashes while on HEMS. |
If you are in the helicopter and on your way to an accident scene, if all victims die before you get there, does the helicopter turn around without landing and let an ambulance transport the bodies? | Yes we turn around. Ambulances don't transport dead people over here.. |
Have you ever had someone say to you "please don't let me die?" | Yes. But it's usually the ones not in danger of dying that say that ( or talk or scream). the silent ones are usually the most critical. |
What path through medicine did you take (and what would a regular doc in your field) take to get where you are? | 6 year medicine school ->horribly hard exam to pick your residency/specialty-> 5 year residency( on the job) horribly hard exam to become specialist 1 year specialist so far. And yet i've done so much compared to some other EMD that i feel old :D. |
What is the most personally dangerous situation you've been in during your work? | Surrounded by about 200 angry gypsies with a relative of theirs dying in my ambulance. |
Also flying through a storm so bad the pilots thought the plane will break up.. | |
A few questions; Does it ever get boring? Ever feel that "burn out" that drives so many EMS out of the profession? Ever had to use your skills while not on the clock? The classic "is there a doctor on board?" type scenario. Thanks. | So far its not boring at all. I did have an extrication while n vacation in a different country ( sweden). We were on a bus, i was sleeping, when my friend wakes me that he saw a crash ahead. i told the driver to slow as we passed, saw that it was bad, and asked to stop so i can help. he stopped, i went, was first there. Old man with severe trauma, in coma, GCS=9, and old lady screaming. Side impact, driver's door, other car fine. Another guy that was a paramedic there in Sweden stopped and came, together we emptied the backseat and i imobilised the man's neck while he took care of the old lady. Firefighters arrived, we talked, i told them to decap the car ( that's when they cut all the pillars and remove the top), so they threw a special blanket over us and they cut the car with me inside holding the old man's neck straight. Just after they were done, first ambulance arrived, and they brought strecher and cervical collar and we extricated him safely. after some oxygen he started to regain consciousnees enough that i was comfortable letting the paramedic ake him to hospital alone. Old lady was fine, just in shock. I then returned to the bus, not expecting it to be there, but there it was, waiting for over 50 minutes. I expected people to be rude about making them wait, like they would in my shitty country, but noone said anything. then a girl came and gave me a botttle of water and i realised i was pretty much full of blood, so i washed up and fell asleep again. 5 minutes before arriving in Stockholm the bus driver announed on the intercom that the passangers would like to thank me for what i did and how much they appreciated it. I was stunned. I realised then what a difference it is between a civilised country and my shitty one. It was an amazing experience. |
What jobs did you do as a junior doc to end up in HEMS? | I did my job properly, did well in pre-hospital care ( ambulance, Rapid Response Car, neonate), and had quite a bit of luck :D if you're asking what my speciality is , it's Emergency Medicine, or Accidents & Emergency. And i started HEMS in my 4th year of residency, rest of prehospital care in my 3rd. |
Where would one go to apply for such positions, also what and where did you go for your residency? Since you also work on helicopters and other aerial forms of transportation, is it like in the military (i.e. flight surgeons) where you have to be certified to work in these places? If there is, what kind of requirements are there? For example, a certain level of visual acuity, physical fitness, etc. 3.By being in places where danger is a common occurrence, have you and your fellow co-workers been in situations that you could have potentially died in? | 1: I think it depends on your country. for mine, only Emergency Medicine does this kind of job, and only very few hospitals that are part of the SMURD program (it's short for Mobile Resuscitation, Extrication Emergency Service). I did my residency in one of these hospitals and i was accepted for prehospital care. 2: you need to be in good health, not take drugs or medicine, not be sick. There is a mandatory medical checkup before each HEMS shift, with BP, sats, heart rate and you need to fill some statement forms. There are no physical trials or limits except not being nauseous while flying and during heavy weatheheavy brutal manouvres. |
How did you feel during the times when you weren't able to assist due to protocol? Were the consequences for any patients due to this? | I was aching to go in, like a horse chomping and pulling at the bit. You have to understand we are all adrenaline junkies, all the paramedics and nurses and doctors that do prehospital care. You just don't do this job if you aren't. That's why the usualy penalty for going in before cleared is they take you off prehospital care for a while ( could be forever or a long time if you fuck up badly). So that pretty much keeps us in line. |
What was the most surprising accident you've encountered? | Guy that fell from the shower, on the toilet bowl, broke it and had the nastiest ASS cut i have ever seen. This was a big guy( not fat, big), mind you, and i could put my whole hand into the cut in one of his buttcheeks. Bled like hell too.. Porcelain is a deadly weapon, make no mistake about it. |
What was your very first experience like? would you rather work like back then or right now, as you described "dehumanized"? | I walked into the ER on my first day, and there were a great many people yelling and screaming and being generally very agitated.. and i thought.. "what the hell have i gotten myself into". But after a couple of hours of being pushed around and being in everyone's way, i started to see the chemistry between them and how everyone was loud because they needed to be heard and how 5 severe cases were being treated at the same time and i was pretty much hooked. |
I miss the old cramped ER to be honest, now we have a huge new one but we are spread too thin and it's destryoing our ER dept.. | |
Would you say that the quality of care has declined since the expansion? | Yes, too much of them, too few of us. |
Do you take an active interest in following patients status after your care? The facts that first responders get little info after trauma cases doesn't lend much closure. | Not really to be honest. Or very rarely. I get enough knowing that i stabilized, diagnosed, and got him to where he needed to be alive, and that i did my job well. EM is a high risk/instant reward and i LOVE it that way. |
Any interesting stories of jerry-rigging medical devices while in the field? Thanks for doing what you do. | We sometimes improvise, but usually because something fails, not because we don't have what we need. I for one used the secretions aspirator to vacuum the vacuum matress that hold a trauma patient straight and tight, i've used a flashlight held in my mouth to see better during intubating a chemical burn victim's throat. I'd love some sterile duct tape to be honest, the medical equivalent is not strong enough :D |
How do you find time for yourself? What do you do to unwind/have fun in your free time? | I hardly do lately. especially with a 3 year old and an extra job besides this one. For fun i Internetz, play games, snowboard ( rarely when i get a chance), and play airsoft. used to love sports but no time now.. |
What's your 'extra job'? | Medical Hotline at a private clinic chain. people call here if they have some sort of medical "emergency" ( usually a nasty cold, or more likely their child has a fever) and i give medical advice, or send an ambulance if asked for or needed ( never so far). |
What's your favorite kind of fruit? | Apples, and exotics.. always try anything new i find at the supermarket. But i unfortunatly rarely eat fruit anymore.. gotta work on that.. |
You okay there? | Too much typing :D edited the mistakes out. |
How do you keep calm when the people around you are panicking? Any tricks you use that seem to work to help you stay focused on the job at hand. | Tunnel vision if you can.( unless you are coordinating then step back more, there is always the pull to get in on the action). Cut every insurmountable think into manageable slices and deal with each in turn, otherwise you are sure to panic. |
You've my dream job. Hopefully I can get into Med school this year. Also, was it your objective from the beginning, or you just found yourself into this ? | It was my 3rd option after surgical and orthopedics, and i said, why not i'll try i for a year. Then i got hooked. |
The other day I was working with an ER doctor who had just received a stroke sign patient. He could tell something was off when the guy said he had left sided paralysis and his face was fine and his fingers moved when touched. The doctor then took the guy's "weak" hand and repeatedly dropped it onto the guy's face. For those that don't know, if you're pretending to be asleep/weak and someone does that, your natural instinct is to move your arm so your hand doesn't hit your face. So the doctor did this over and over again, and every time the guy "defended" himself by moving his paralyzed hand. Turned into the ER version of "stop hitting yourself". So what's a go to hilarious ER story you've got? | I think the funniest is when we had a heroin OD who was almost in respiratory arrest, who we couldn't stimulate enough for him to breathe.. we were ready to intubate him, when one of the older doctors comes in, sees us, goes to the patiend , leans near and yell "POLICE" as loud as he could. The patient woke up instantly and almost jumped off the table. He ofcourse started drooping asleep a min or so in, so we spent that afternoon taking turns yelling POLICE near the guy so he would breathe :D good old times.. |
Hey EMD, do you ever show up on a scene and say "Please state the nature of the medical emergency?", like the EMH? | No i usually say "give me the laryngoscope and a 7.5 tube this guy is almost gone". |
We have a pretty bad ass dispatch(we do the dispatch as well) and system( usually paramedics go in first, they solve 90% of cases, if not we get called in), and we rarely get sent to cases that are not critical. | |
Is your job going to get mnore boring when everything drives itself? | No. Emergency medicine never gets old really, and pre-hospital care even less so. There is always something that amazes me each week.. |
How often do you scream: get to da choppa? | I was waiting for that :D Quite a lot actually, "private" joke with some of my pilots. |
I'm wondering what your feelings are about patients who come in as a result of a suicide attempt. You obviously care a great deal about saving people; is it frustrating or infuriating when a patient comes in who has purposefully done great harm to himself? I ask because I tried to kill myself about a year ago when I was in a very dark place (trying to deal with my father's untimely death) and I remember the looks of disgust and disdain on the faces of some of the ER nurses. Like I was a waste of their time. The ER Doc, however, was more kind. Do you ever feel that way, like a person who comes in after trying to kill themselves is a waste of your time? | No, if he/she has really done harm... but it's tricky. Mostly what you interpreted as disgust, is.. i don't know how to say it... We have so many people( mostly women) trying to "kill themselves" to get attention, that we are sick of it. They don't really want to die, they just want attention, and so they take pills or lie about taking pills.. etc. we have 5-10 of these a day. Those are the ones that i feel are wasting my time. I had one time this girl that wanted to kill herself with Strepsils ( sore throat pills).. or with Omeprazol which is a gastric bandage.. The ones that Truly wanna die, they get it done. They jump, they get in front of a train, they really cut themselves.. I don't know what you did, or why, and i'm sorry you felt you had to resort to that, but there are better ways. Please seek help. I hope you get better. |
Please tell me that you pumped their stomachs and shoved charcoal down their throats when they say they "swallowed pills" even though they didnt. | Of course :D. |
What's your thoughts on nurses? and do you work with many male nurses? | Yes, we have quite a few. We work side by side, here in our Dept it's a very close relation, mostly first name basis, because who has time in the ER or in the field to be "propper". We are a team. |
What's the most gruesome scene you've been to? | More than one. Decapitations, hangings( some really creepy in creepy houses with no power at nigh), car accidents with brains all over, amputations, disembowelments, crush injuries, buried alive, or just unbelievably filthy houses where people live. hard to pick just one. |
Hello, and thanks for this AMA! I just wonder, on average how many cases do you normally have per week? Are there many cases in which you have to ride the helicopter? Who has to pay for the ride? I would guess it is the patients...is it very expensive for them??? Cheers | All medical services( except you know, private clinic and cosmetic) are free in this country. number of patients, depends on what i'm doing. Ambulance, might be 2-15 per 24 hr shift. helicopter, depends. i've had days of 8-10 flight hours( basically non stop during the daylight), ive had days with 0 minutes in the air. |
Is the pay good in Romania? Have you ever thought about moving to another country? | Pay is shit. yes, in fact i will hopefully move to the UK soon. |
Untrained people at the scene: what do we do? I don't want to stand around gawping, but I don't know if trying to help would be at all appropriate or needed. Basically, is memebers of the public trying to help any use or a big hinderance (we should all just go home) | Try to establich a perimeter, and have a clear way in-out for our access. There's too much you don't know that can hurt even if your intentions are good. Take charge and make people responsible. I found that phrases like " come on people, what if that was your relative there" work much better than threats or pleads. If some1 working there asks for your help, do EXACTLY as he told you. If unsure or didn't hear right, ASK AGAIN. |
Hello! I am 23 year old RN about to hit the 1 year mark. The only emergencies I've been in have been codes on my floor. Granted codes are few and far between, I love the rush and the teamwork involved to save someone's life. I'm often worried that if I switch to the ER I'll absolutely hate it, yet I'm compelled to go because of the shear amount of experience and knowledge to gain. Do you have any pointers or suggestions for would be ER nurses? Is there any great advice or resources you would recommend? | Be calm, always ask again before administering a drug, even if i just told you to 2 mins ago because someone might have allready done it, and be as much part of the team as you can even if it means stepping down and letting someone else do "that thing". |
Have you ever been the actual incident commander for a major incident? are you familiar with NIMS and ICS? | Don;t know what constitutes a major incident for you, but i have commanded a team of 4 doctor ambulances(not counting mine) and 7 paramedic ambulances and a multiple casualty crash on the freeway at night. It was HELL. Not familiar with those acronyms, sorry. |
Have you ever arrived on scene to find someone you know has been injured? Also, you said you have two jobs - why is this? | I have 2 jobs because i need the money. I'd rather be home playing with my kid, but then again, i have to clothe and feed that kid :D. |
Is it true that if the person is an organ donor and is barely alive, you kill them anyways to harvest their organs? | No. there are strict regulations for this. it's not my field though so i refrain from answering more as to not give you an even more wrong impression tha you allready have. |
You arrive at a disaster area. You see identical twins with identical trauma (let's say penetrating zone 1 neck trauma). Their vitals are dropping at the same rate. You can only help one. How do you choose who lives? | Not sure about what penetrating zone 1 neck trauma means to you, but if i can IV line one fast and the nurse line the other and my paramedics move fast with my induction drugs, why the hell can;t i save both of them??? |
How do you deal with the patient's family when arriving to the scene? To them you are their only hope in the world,, | This is what separates a good EM from a great one. Dealing with relatives, passerbys, etc. You need to be in control all the time, i've had some scary situations, being threatened etc that i got me and my crew out safely by just controlling the situation and not giving an inch. sometimes you gotta be compasionate, sometimes even rude, sometimes firm. Reading the siuation and who you are talking to is crucial. (for example worst answer is to threaten a former inmate with calling the police). |
For a student Nurse that wants to also get into the Rapid Response team, what advice would you give? | Be a team player. It's what i value most in my coworkers in this job. Ego gets people killed. |
Hey allnighter. Posted something similar earlier: how do you decide which patient to treat first if there are several whose lives are in danger? Thanks for the AMA. | The one with the most chance to survive. |
Salary? | I don't want to send you into shock. yes it's that low. |