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Cameron is back in the game in a 6-1-1 vote, and Scott and Anne Maria have gained immunity in a 7-5-2-1-1 vote.
Blaineley announces that Cameron has won the second chance challenge and is now back in the game. Cameron is incredulous, and Beardo, Ella, & Harold cheer for him, and Blaineley asks if she will get her money. Geoff laughs & says that they just barely went over time, which very much pisses off Blaineley, causing her to charge at Geoff. Security comes & captures her, and Geoff says that the next Aftermath will be at the secret finale location. As Blaineley is getting dragged away by security, Geoff signs off the episode, saying that he’ll see everyone next time.
Niagara Brawls
The episode opens with the Max clone scurrying around, playing with a sharp rock, and subsequently hiding when he sees the interns dragging the contestants to the cargo hold. The scene then cuts to a sleeping Max, who is having a dream about inventing things with Owen & Izzy. Scott, Sugar, & Topher then show up on hoverboards, destroying their work with lightning bolts. Max is thrown in the air, subsequently waking up & realizing that he and the other contestants have been thrown out of the plane.
Max promptly screams, waking everyone else up. While falling, two swan pedal boats are also falling with them. The contestants cling onto the boats as they fall and land in the water, making Anne Maria yell at Chris, as Staci shouts “Water!” This annoys Scott, but he & everyone else then see that they’re all heading toward a massive waterfall. Sugar laments about how she can’t win any more pageants when she dies, Dawn wishes her families good will, & Topher says that he fully doesn’t like Chris now. With Zoey though, she has turned into Commando Zoey, and uses her strength to throw Sugar into the other boat as an anchor, before furiously paddling both boats to safety. On the shore, Anne Maria compliments Zoey’s quick thinking & skills, and Scott is thinking. In the confessional, Scott says that Zoey must go ASAP, as she seems to be a big physical threat.
On shore, Chris reveals their location by telling the contestants that Niagara Falls is awesome, explaining that it is the jewel in Canada's crown and one of the top ten natural wonders in the world, also known for its fabulous casino, the place where they will head for the next part of the challenge, only to find themselves in the concert theater because all of them are underage. Topher asks if anyone will perform here, and Chris says that it’ll happen, as the last Aftermath episode has returned a contestant back to the game. Scott & Sugar are praying that it’s Sierra who returns, Max & Staci want Owen & Sadie respectively, and Chris then announces that it’s in fact Cameron who’s back in the game. Dawn is belated about this, and Cameron sings a song about Dawn & his friends, which is positively met.
Cameron asks Chris which team he’s on, and that he hopes it to be Team Amazon. Chris says that as of now it’s every man, woman, & Cameron for themselves, due to the teams being disbanded. Besides Scott, Sugar, & Topher, everyone is happy about this and is leering angrily at the villains. In the confessional, Sugar asks why everyone else is acting like they’re all friends, as this is Total Drama, not Total Friendship. With Zoey, she’s saying that she is excited at the chance of eliminating Scott or Sugar
Chris then announces that, since they are in the honeymoon capital of the world, they will be in pairs for "arranged marriages." The boys are placed in a giant casino machine, while the girls will pull the lever to see who their husband will be to team up for today's challenge and for Chris' own amusement, adding Bacon the bear in the slot machine, too.
Dawn pulls first, getting Scott, to which she slams the door on, crushing Scott’s arm. Dawn says that she’d prefer Bacon to Scott, making Chris give Bacon to Dawn. Sugar pulls next, getting Topher. Topher looks mostly indifferent to this, and Sugar suggests sabotaging everyone to gain victory, which Topher agrees with. Topher then asks what they should do with Scott, and Sugar says to treat him just like the others, as Sugar is in grave danger of being kicked if she loses.
Zoey pulls, hoping it’s not Scott, and gets Cameron. When Cameron sees this, he says that while he would rather have Dawn, Zoey is cool. Staci gets Max and they fist-bump, and this leaves Anne Maria with Scott, much to their dismay.
In part one of the challenge, the grooms must guide their blindfolded brides to a wedding dress while avoiding several obstacles in the first part of the competition, and if they don't get a dress, they can't move on to the next challenge. Topher tells Sugar not to worry about this, as he is amazing at this. Scott initially messes with Anne Maria, sending her into a pool of pudding, and Anne Maria says that he better stop it, unless he wants to be eliminated.
With Sugar & Topher, Sugar has found the first dress. Sugar suggests sabotaging the other teams, so they can automatically get immunity, which Topher agrees with. Staci & Max are trying to get to a dress, and Max is constantly changing his instructions, as Topher ais moving stuff around to confuse them. Cameron is guiding Zoey when Sugar steals his glasses, which causes him to accidentally send Zoey into a giant cake. Zoey groans at this and asks Cameron what happened. Cameron apologizes and says that it happened because Sugar stole his glasses, which Zoey forcibly takes back.
With Dawn & Bacon, the bear has successfully taken Dawn to the wedding dresses, clinching Dawn’s spot in the next challenge. Scott gets Anne Maria to the wedding dresses successfully, and so does Cameron with Zoey. As Chris says that the first challenge is over, Staci is able to get her wedding dress, annoying Topher & Sugar.
For the second part of the challenge, Chris explains that the grooms must hold their brides on a tightrope as they walk through Niagara Falls — which is packed with hungry sharks below because Chris thought they weren't quite unpleasant enough — and then they must successfully clear customs, saying that the first pair to do so wins invincibility. The mere idea of sharks is making Scott quiver, along with Max & Topher as well. As Sugar & Topher got to the dresses first, they get a head start. As they go by, Sugar trips Zoey for no apparent reason. Topher asks why, and Sugar says that she’s simply trying to get a rise out of Zoey.
Up next is Staci & Max, and the latter is staring at the falls below. Staci asks if he’s alright, and Max says that he feels psyched out by the challenge, as it seems really easy to fall to your death with one misstep. He then regains his breath and Staci starts to carry him on the rope.
Back with Topher & Sugar, Sugar tells Topher to hold on tight. Topher asks what this means, and Sugar slightly shakes the rope from side-to-side, making Staci & Max fall off. Cameron is bewildered by this, as they were just walking fine before. Zoey & Cameron get onto the tightrope next, speeding after the villains while being very wary of the looming threat of the falls.
Dawn & Bacon are next, with the Bear upright, carrying Dawn in her arms. Chris is surprised that anyone could actually find a grizzly bear that would be a good teammate. Bacon walks onto the tightrope, which causes a significant dip that nearly knocks off Scott, Sugar, Cameron, and Dawn. Zoey angrily asks who did this, and Cameron tells her to calm down, as it was just Dawn & the bear, which makes Zoey feel sheepish.
At the front, Sugar & Topher are discussing how they should sabotage everybody else once again when they reach customs. Chef starts to ask the duo some questions, and they are turned back when Chef asks them in which state is it illegal to have a donkey sleep in your bathtub after 7 P.M. Sugar said Texas, but the answer was Oklahoma.
Zoey & Cameron run into Sugar & Topher, and neither side is willing to move. In a bout of anger, Zoey violently shakes the rope, sending Dawn, the bear, Cameron, Topher, & Sugar into the falls. Zoey is mortified at what she has done, and dives in as well, looking for Cameron & Dawn. Scott & Anne Maria are the last ones standing, and carefully cross the rope to customs, where they answer all the questions correctly. Chef asks if they have anything else to say, and Anne Maria says that she’s just glad to be done with the challenge. The contestants in the water are now thankfully in a motorboat that is being driven by the interns, as Chris begrudgingly realizes that the contestants can't die.
Vote anyone sans Scott or Anne Maria, vote somebody for immunity, and feel free to come up with any plot points!

Okay so a little background- My husband and I (28F and 32M) have been together and married for 9 years, we have just welcomed our baby girl last July- the first grand baby of both families, everyone was thrilled. Our baby recieves a lot of attention from my husband’s parents since we live around the corner from them.
I have a sister in law, Camie (26). She LOVES kids and has voiced how much she would love a baby. Camie and her boyfriend have some issues. They always complain to her parents about how they can never afford things, leaving my inlaws to foot the bill, such as: a lawn mower, getting their dog spayed, patio furniture & a vacation to mexico.
There are a couple people that voiced concern about them starting a family.. Her dad- my FIL, has been adiment about her boyfriend getting serious about their relationship first (putting a ring on it), before they think about having a child. Camie agreed, but stated that it will be a while before they got married as it would be expensive. Her sister, my other SIL- has been hearing up and down about their issues/fights. It seems that every other week they are split up for a day or two before reconnecting. We hardly see Camie’s boyfriend as they usually get into a fight before she makes the trip over to where we live, so he doesn’t come with her.
A couple of months ago Camie asked me what I thought of her having a baby since she was lonely at home. I did not lie, I said I didn’t think it was the best idea since her boyfriend is hardly around, both work wise and emotionally. Plus, they have only been together for a little over a year. Skip to last week, Camie comes to visit us with her boyfriend. She gathers us all at the table for a ‘family photo’ before her boyfriend says ‘Sayyy…. Camie’s pregnant!’ As he takes a video. Her sister, with a straight face says “is this a joke?”. Her father, frowns through his smile and looks down at the ground. My husband, shakes his head and walks away. I, put on a huge smile and say Oh my gosh congratulations!. We all gather ourselves up to wish her congratulations, but there are clear bad vibes going on. She doesn’t notice.
Camie, Upon reviewing the video, texted me, very upset that her announcement video was a dud and that her family was not supportive. She was upset, stating, how could everyone be so excited for me? And not for her?. I told her, that everyone might not be super excited at first and that’s okay, it’s just a bit jarring to hear this news.
Camie name calls me and her family a bunch of a holes who don’t respect her decision as a grown woman.
AITA for telling her the pregnancy wasn’t exactly wanted by everyone? Or does she deserve the flack

Shrek orge mann is going to start off his week by getting a divorce with fiona because she ate all of his amazing freshly picked onions straight out the store. After breaking up with Fiona, he is going to buy a mini plane and fly all the way to Switzerland, where he can stay in an AirBNB. This house replicates his house in the swamp, and therefore he likes it a lot and stays there awhile. There he will start a yummy glass company with his companion Donkey (Ryder) and they will start off slow. Eventually they will grow and have a successful business, changing their names to Walter and Jessie. the CIA (Lord farquad and his men) then catch on to their act, and proceed to raid his AIrBNB in Switzerland and steal all of their furniture. Little does Lord Farquad know they are one step ahead, as they flee to New Mexico where they lay low for 5 weeks 3 days to avoid Lord Farquad and his men. Lord Farquaad eventually calls it a lost case, but that's where Shrek and Donkey start their business back up, and within a week they have a name for themselves and within a month they make $552,000. EACH. They then retire from their evil business and life of crime and look into buying a local gym. The duo then goes and proceeds to buy a gym membership to test gyms around the local spots and eventually will travel the world to find the best gym that they can settle for. They get absolutely shredded over the course of about 5 days, which leads them to be the strongest du to ever live and exist. After this feat, Shrek goes to find a nice shawty (Curvy lady to accompany him in his amazing journeys and love him forever unconditionally just like his mom), who is she? Thou is no other than Fiona 2.0. She's badder, she's better, and all around more sigma and dopamine inducing. They then go to Hawaii for their honeymoon, BUT THEY GET RAIDED. Farquad and his men are there waiting at the hotel and arrest Donkey Shrek and Fiona 2.0 They get trialed for 60 years no parole and get sent away. But shrek has a master plan, he pulls an old fashioned el chapo and hires the gingerbread man and pinocchio to dig a tunnel under his and donkeys cell to escape. After 5 months they finally reach their cells, with 2 dirt bikes to ride away to freedom. They both escape and once they do they flee to Russia where they drink mad amounts of vodka. Then after 10 years they finally settle in Canada where they drink syrup and say Oki Doki all day long.

Nineteen years after Hurricane Katrina made landfall, the storm remains one of the deadliest hurricanes in United States history. Though the death toll remains uncertain, at least 1,300 lives were lost as a result of the tragedy, with dozens more still missing.
One of those lives was an unidentified woman, nicknamed Jane Love by locals, who was found a week after the storm passed between the foundations of two wrecked houses in St. Martin, Mississippi*. She wore a University of Michigan t-shirt over black pants and had pierced ears. Jane Love was determined to be a middle-aged woman, likely Black. In the chaos of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, Jane was unable to be reunited with her family. When the woman, along with another unidentified man, went unclaimed for months after the hurricane, a local funeral home donated caskets for the two to have a dignified burial, side by side in a municipal cemetery. Sheriff's Deputies stood in place of pallbearers, while a Baptist minister recited prayers at their funeral.
Today, almost two decades later, Jane Love has been identified through genetic genealogy as Tonette Waltman Jackson.
Tonette, a forty-five-year-old Black woman living in Biloxi, believed she and her husband could ride out the storm despite their home being only a mile from the Gulf of Mexico. The couple's children took shelter further inland, though Tonette and her husband were determined to remain in their home. After all, Tonette reasoned, the government went door-to-door telling people to evacuate for their safety during past disasters that put them in danger, so if nobody showed up, it was safe to stay.
Their daughter Mary begged and pleaded with her parents to seek refuge in a safer place, knowing that her father couldn't swim. Tonette brushed it off, joking that she would save him if she had to. The pair boarded up their windows and hunkered down until the worst passed.
Unfortunately, despite surviving the hurricane, Tonette and her husband were caught in the storm surge, which dumped tons of water onto the Gulf Coast, wrecking everything in its path. Floodwater rushed into the house and the couple had to break a hole through the ceiling into their attic to escape the rising deluge, which kept on rising. Praying for their safety, they grasped onto the attic's rafters, though those soon broke apart under pressure, soon followed by the entire house giving way, described later as 'breaking in half'. Without solid ground to stand on, Tonette fell into the rushing water, while her husband managed to grab hold of a sturdy tree branch. He grabbed her by the wrist with his other hand, fighting the force of the water. Tonette let go of his hand and told him to take care of their family, before being washed away into Biloxi Bay, never to be seen again.
Her husband Hardy Jackson's heartwrenching testimony of losing her to the storm during a live interview with reporter Jennifer Mayerle was viewed by millions nationwide, encapsulating the death and suffering Hurricane Katrina wrought upon the Gulf Coast. Moved by the video of Jackson, soul musician Frankie Beverly donated a house in Atlanta, Georgia to the family, who had been living with relatives at the time.
Hardy passed away in 2013, though not before seeing their grandsons be the first in their family to graduate high school. It is unclear how Tonette was not matched to Jane Love sooner.

*The Doe Network lists her as having been found in Ocean Springs, a neighboring town, but LeMoyne Boulevard is definitely in St. Martin.

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/wccos-jennifer-mayerle-shares-unforgettable-story-of-katrina-survivohttps://dnasolves.com/articles/tonette-waltman-jackson-mississippi/
https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1093853
https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2015/08/28/no-one-knows-how-many-people-died-in-katrina
https://www.weather.gov/mob/katrina
https://justicebeserved.blogspot.com/2009/09/list-of-victims-of-katrina-may-they-be.html
https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1256ufms.html
https://www.telegram.com/story/news/state/2006/02/03/two-unidentified-victims-katrina-buried/53133330007/

This all happened last summer shortly after my paternal grandmother died, and I’ve just managed to get everything in order for the judgement of internet strangers. I did my best to provide context were I could.
TL;DR: We found out we have a half sister after our grandmother died and after we were done dealing with a variety of family issues. The Half-sister contacted us against the wishes of our dad and late grandmother. Due to a variety of reasons, we made the family decision to have nothing to do with her.
So for context:
My dad emigrated from Mexico to California with his family to look for work. He and my mom were childhood sweethearts but they were not together when he left Mexico for California. This is confirmed by my parents and my uncles.
While in California, my dad met this woman and they messed around a little bit. He says it wasn’t that serious of a relationship. He was young, got drunk often and she was young and pretty. I believe my dad was in his early twenties as was this girl if my math is right. This girl was also a known flirt and slept around a lot. Naturally, she gets pregnant and claims its my dad’s. He doesn’t believe her despite her insisting its his baby so he dips.
(Based on the info from my dad, and what my sister could gather, my dad was the only one with a stable job so we think she was trying to baby trap him. I’m not trying to make excuses, my dad isnt perfect but he’s honest and loves my mom).
My dad’s family, especially his sister, did NOT like this lady at all due to the aforementioned sleeping around so she helps him get to texas. My mom had just emigrated as well and my dad wanted to be with my mom. So he leaves this girl. Baby Momma threatened with child support, or that she would abort the baby if he left which pissed my dad off. When you’re mexican and catholic, threatening an abortion is a no no. So he leaves her, meets back up with my mom, married her, and I come along. We hear nothing of them for a while and its not like the lady couldnt track him down.
Flashforward to a few years. My mom gets a call from BM’s brother where he yells at her and my dad calling him a piece of shit for leaving BM and the baby. My dad ended up taking the phone and said again, the baby isnt his, and that he wants nothing to do with them and to never contact his family again. My mom was then aware of the other girl and she was mad, but again, they weren’t together and my dad was young drunk and stupid. So they push it down, ignore it, move on and forget.
Then my grandmother died. She knew about the other girl and she believes that it is my dad’s. My grandma would travel between our house and my uncles in california where she would meet with the other girl. Everyone on my dad’s side does think she’s his daughter.
Added context that is important.
For my mom, and only my mom, my dad stopped drinking and was sober for almost 23 years. However, in 2020, being surrounded by other alcoholics and being away for days for a job, he started drinking again. My dad helps build houses and would sometimes go all the way to oklahoma Or lousiana for a job. No he didn’t cheat. His coworkers actually teased him because he called my mom so often just to talk to her. I need y’all to understand that my dad loves my mom. He would move mountains for her. He’s not a perfect person, but he was a good dad and husband. Never hit us. Never raised his voice. We destroyed his model car collection that included some expensive pieces as kids. He didn’t ell he saw we were happy and tried to hide the survivors better. He gave my mom everything.
When she found out, they fought so badly it tore them apart. My dad is also stubborn to a fault and believed he could manage it. In the end, it got bad wnough my mom let me. Have a go at him because he was not listening or doing anything. He was also stressed as my sister was in bootcamp and I was getting married. So i think drinking was just easier for him.
I tore into him that day. I cornered him and confronted him for refusing help even though we offered. I told him how much it was hurting mom and when he refused to listen, I threatened to kick him out of my wedding if he didn’t do something about his drinking. He finally did especially after we think all their bad energy attracted an evil entity. I can elaborate if asked but its not relevant. Quit cold turkey again and he and my mom talked about how they would move forward. They began going to church a lot more often, all is good. My dad is doing better emotionally and is trying to make up with my mom. We have a conversation with my mom about being more patien and communicating more.
In all of this, my mom was dealing with liver issues and the stress of all of this was not helping.
Back to the story.
My grandmother died in march of 2023. I meet my cousins through video chat bc they were in Mexico. They video the service and funeral most of which we paid for. My dad bought a beautiful coffin for her, paid for roses and the gravestone. We paid for mariachi because my grandma always wanted mariachi for her funeral. We mourn, we move on.
My halfsister contacts my dad first to try and talk to him. My dad tells her again to leave us be that we want nothing to do with her. My dad’s number is public because thats how he gets jobs. So thats how she contacted him.
So she contacts us.
No one told us about her. She knew about us because my grandma would tell her about us. But we didn’t know about her. Everyone left it up to my dad to lake that decision and he never did.
My sister and I are both contacted by this girl through facebook. The profile is new and I’d almost gotten scammed once so we’re suspicious. We play along, ask for ID, video, proof. Everything. She provides it all. BC we thought she was a scammer, we weren’t exactly nice. So we’re thinking there might be some truth. We call my dad, he denies it. Call my mom, he denies it. I have my sister call him for me again because she’s better about getting things out of him. I call an uncle that Half Sister says knows about her.
Finally, they tell us everything that y’all just read. My sister and I are reeling, but we don’t tell the other three siblings. My mom is upset wanting to know why this girl is bothering us and that she doesn’t want her bothering us. She and my dad fight and my sister and I head to them (we’d moved out). We talk to our siblings separately.
My sister and I decide we don’t want anything to do with her. She is a stranger to us, and our parents are in a good place right now. They deserve peace. Not to mention, she went against the wishes of our grandma and my mom was still dealing with her liver issues. They could not. Handle another big issue right now.
So we gather everyone. Tell my parents that my sister and I want to tell our siblings together as a family and make a decision as a family. We preemptively talked to our siblings and agreed we wanted nothing to do with her.
I would rather not get into too many details. My mom spiraled. We both have anxiety but only one of us (me) sought a therapist. She was convinced my dad would leave her and that we would hate her or turn against her. (She is not a narcissist. She has anxiety shes finally learning to manage it). I removed my mom and brought her outside to breathe while my sister talked with my dad. Both me and my dad struggle to voice what we want to say and so it was becoming a bad cycle with my mom not being fair to him. My sister helps my dad word what he wants to say. But my sister and I get a handle on the situation. When we planned this, we knew we wanted to make sure mom was good. Dad already made his opinion in the matter clear. We just also knew our mom.
My dad reaffirms that he loves my mom, and us and doesn’t want to leave her. He also tells us that its our decision if we want to talk to this girl. My siblings and us all agree that we don’t want anything to do with her. We spend some time talking, winding down, go to ihop and head home.
Where I feel bad for her:
She wanted to meet us and get to know us. My parents had five of us and we are all very close while she was an only child. So I understand where she's coming from and I have a lot of sympathy from her. She knew parts of our extended family and whatever my grandmother told her about us. You see videos online of adoptees or people who were seperated from their parents who want to reconnect with their families and they are hailed for it. Even a scroll through the comment section people praise them for the attempt and villify the family if they reject them. And I understand why she wants to meet us. We're her siblings, but I can't bring myself to.
My parents just got done dealing with my dad's relapse into drinking. My mom had forgiven him and were trying to move past it. My mom could not handle any more stress due to her liver (or maybe it was her kidneys. The doctors said she needed to watch out for her blood pressure). My sister and I knew that this would be an issue and we did our best to deal with it and act as family counselors. My parents aren't perfect, but they're good parents and raised us well and I know they love each other. They recently had a proper wedding ceremony after twenty six years. Our siblings and I are starting to finally give back to them (taking them out to eat, giving them nice gifts, replacing the model cars we destroyed years ago). We would do just about anything to make them happy.
In my eyes, our half sister (if she is blood related) went against my grandmother's wishes and only contacted us AFTER my grandmother had been dead for a few months. And then, after my dad told her not to bother us, she contacted my sister and I. I loved my grandmother. We were devastated when she died so right as we're starting to recover from that, we get with this and it pissed me off.
I understand she wants to get to know us, but I don't want anything to do with her and my siblings (even after talking with them) agreed. We don't know her. We are happy where we are right now and don't want anything that is going to ruin that. She is a stranger that is going to upend the peace that we finally have. And now, a year later, she is all but forgotten to us because to us, she really isn't anything. And its not like she's not doing well for herself. She's works as a nurse and is living her life.
So Reddit, am I the asshole (or are we the assholes) for wanting nothing to do with our half-sister who we never met and didn't know existed?

As many of you may have read, there is a case of two missing adopted kids in North Carolina, where remains have been found. The news has reported that their adoptive “mother” is Avantae Deven.
I’m a curious person and started digging up information on Avantae Deven when I first read the story in my news feed and could not believe what I was reading. It seemed like whomever this woman is must have be using an alias; Avantae Deven is not a name like Kim Jones or Mackenzie Smith.
The more I dug, the weirder it seemed to get. I found a property deed to a place in Sedona, Arizona, and figured out that whomever this Avantae person is, she at one point in time had owned a home together with someone named Nicole Adams. So I dug into who Nicole Adams was, and learned that she was the widow of a spiritual leader named Robert Adams. It appeared to me that there would be no way to identify who Avantae really was, unless I could also identify the true identity of Robert Adams.
*******
I've done investigative work for many years, including skip tracing. I can conclusively state that there was absolutely no person actually named Robert Adams born in New York State on January 21, 1928. This is demonstrated by the New York Birth Index. I have combed the census records for 1930, 1940, and 1950, and cross-checked them against multiple databases, and am confident that nobody with the birth name of Robert Adams was born anywhere in the United States on January 21, 1928.
Moreover, there was absolutely no person with the true name of Robert Adams who died anywhere at all in the United States, let alone Sedona, Arizona, on March 2, 1997. This is demonstrated by the Social Security Death Index.
I began this research largely by performing exhaustive searches on the known addresses that are associated with Robert, his wife Leonie (who used to use the alias Nicole), and Avantae Deven (who turns out to be their daughter Michelle who began using the alias Avantae in the mid-1990’s or so). Most of the addresses are PO boxes. Those that are PO boxes are all *private* PO boxes, not PO boxes that one can rent from the United States Postal Service. To me, that spoke volumes. The family were clearly using aliases.
As I explain further below, I eventually determined that “Robert Adams” was Robert Spiegel, born 21 January 1932 in New York. “Nicole Adams” was actually Aileen Beverly Leonie Maxwell, born February 2, 1929, in Jamaica. “Avantae Deven” is actually their daughter, Michelle K. Spiegel, born on October 1, 1960, in California.
One of Robert’s many false stories about Robert’s life that my research has refuted is Robert’s claim that his mother was Jewish and his father was Catholic. That was a lie. Both of his parents were Jewish. It’s also interesting that he claimed that he was “raised Catholic.” There is absolutely nothing to suggest that. His mother always, in New York, lived in Jewish neighborhoods. Moreover, as will be discussed below, his parents had a Jewish wedding. It’s also downright absurd that he would tell people that he was “half Jewish.” If your mother’s Jewish, you are Jewish, pure and simple. Even if Robert’s father had truly been Catholic (which he wasn’t; his name was Samuel Spiegel and he immigrated to America in 1907, lived with his Jewish, Yiddish-speaking cousins, and spoke Yiddish himself), Robert would have been Jewish because the status of being a Jew comes from the mother. Robert’s mother’s name was Fannie (nee Fleisfeder) Spiegel. Fannie’s parents were Itzik Fleisfeder and Esther Libke (nee Rifkin) Fleisfeder. Esther’s parents were Mendel Rifkin and Sarah whose maiden name is lost to time and the disappearance of the shtetls. Robert’s claim to having had a Catholic father was utterly false, but is part and parcel of his ongoing compulsive daily lying about anything and everything.
Here is the story.
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Kolomyia, formerly known as Kolomea, is a city currently located in the Western Ukraine.
On January 21, 1892 (the same year that Kolomea tallis¹ workers went on strike for better pay and working conditions), Kolomea resident Rachel Katz, wife of Abraham Spiegel, gave birth to a son, who was given the name Schmuel.
On the date that Schmuel Spiegel entered the world, Kolomea was ruled by the Austro-Hungarian Monarchy, and almost half of the city’s residents were Jewish.
In June of 1907, fifteen-year-old Schmuel² boarded the Zeeland, which sailed from Antwerp, Belgium, arriving at New York Harbor on June 18, 1907. The ship’s manifest states that Schmuel’s father had paid for his transport, and that Schmuel intended to reside with his father, Abe, in Brooklyn. Schmuel was granted entrance, and took up residence with his cousin Charles Fetner, who resided at 353 Myrtle Avenue, Brooklyn, in Apartment A with his wife Jennie and their baby daughter Ettie. The sparse record that exists suggests that although Schmuel’s father was, indeed, named Abraham, Abraham lived and died in Europe, without immigrating to America.
The 1910 census describes Samuel’s cousin Charles as a carpenter, who had been married to housewife Jennie for six years, and a father of three children-- Ettie age four, Nathan age two, and baby Jacob, who was not even a year old. Eighteen-year-old Samuel was identified by profession as a “Foreman Sailmaker” in an industry described as “pocket-books.”
Three and a half years after being granted admission, on a bitterly cold winter day, January 4, 1911, Schmuel (now employed as a pocket-book maker, and having Anglicized his name to Samuel) signed and submitted his declaration to become a United States citizen. He stated, in that declaration, that he was born on January 21, 1892.
By 1915, Samuel had left his cousin’s abode and was residing as a lodger in the home of a widow named Rose Hammer, who lived with her two adolescent sons, Meyer and Louis, at 531 E. 5^th Avenue; Samuel was now working as a “driver.”
Two years after the 1915 state census was taken, Samuel had moved back to Myrtle Avenue, but this time at building no. 849. On June 15, 2017, Samuel registered for the draft, and described himself as being a pocketbook maker, working for “A. Shoenfeld,” at 101 Crosby Street, New York. He was single. He stated, in his draft registration, that he was born on January 21, 1892.
*******
A woman named Fruma Fleisfeder was born in Beltz, Bessarabia, sometime between July 1, 1893, and 1901, to Itzik Fleisfeder and Esther Lieba Rifkin. Fruma (not living up to her pious given name) provided different dates and years of birth to different authorities on different occasions, making it impossible at this point in time to know her true position in the birth order of her family. Regardless, Fruma, who began using the name Fanny upon her entrance to the United States, did have three brothers and a sister who also came to America-- Louis Fleisfeder who was born April 10, 1890, Max Irving Fleisfeder who used October 10, 1892 as his birthdate, Hersch (later known as Harry), whose official birthdate was December 15, 1901, and Sylvia who was born in approximately 1906.
On December 1, 1919, Fruma arrived in New York Harbor on the ship La Touraine, declaring her intention, at entry, to become a United States Citizen. The ship’s manifest describes her as five feet five inches tall, with fair hair, blue eyes, and a fair complexion. The ship’s manifest states that she was, at that time, age 24. If that were correct, she would have been born in 1895.
Fruma (then going by Fanny) took up residence with her cousin Ethel (nee Ruchlin) and Ethel’s husband Samuel Steinberg, on 15^th Street, Brooklyn. Soon thereafter, Ethel gave birth to her first child, a daughter named Theresa. The 1920 census states that Fanny was Russian, didn’t speak English but, rather, spoke Hebrew, and worked as a milliner in a millinery store. The 1920 census also states that Fanny was age 25, which lines up with her being age 24 in the prior year’s ship manifest.
*******
Sam and Fanny married in Manhattan on January 24, 1925. Their marriage certificate (signed by each of them) identifies Sam as being age 32 (contradicting, by one year, his immigration records which would have placed him at age 33), and identifies Fanny as age 24, the same age that she had claimed to be six years prior, and also contradicting an immigration petition that she would file two decades in the future, which generally placed her birth year at the mid-point of 1893.
If Fanny’s immigration records (which included a petition with her signature on it) were correct, Fanny would also have been age 32 as of her marriage to Samuel, not age 24.
So did Fanny lie in her marriage certificate? Or did she lie in her immigration petition?
The marriage certificate identifies Sam as having been born in Kolomea, Austria, and his father being Abraham, and his mother being Rachel Katz. It identifies Fanny as having been born in Beltz, Russia, to a father named Isaac, and to a mother named Esther Rifkin.
The marriage certificate does not identify Fanny as having any profession, but identifies Sam as being a pocketbook maker.
Sam and Fannie were married at 125 E. 4^th Street, Manhattan, a six-story apartment building with retail units on the ground floor that is now an expensive co-op, with three-bedroom units selling for over $900,000. Present-day real estate advertisements alternatively state that the building was built in 1894, 1903, and 1905.
The first name of the rabbi who officiated was Harry. His surname starts with Reid, but the remaining letters of his signature are illegible. Rabbi Harry identified his residence as 232 Broome Street, which, at the time, was a four-story mixed use building that, among other things, housed Chevrah Ahavath Zedek Anshei Jaskinover.
Witnesses to the marriage were Mayer Budmon and Samuel Steinberg.
*******
Sam and Fanny’s existence was documented next in the 1925 New York State census by census. They were living at 205 S. 2^nd Street. Samuel was still working as a “pocketbook maker.” Fanny was identified as a “housewife.”
Fanny was identified as age 25. This was in accordance with her age as stated on her marriage certificate, but not in accordance with her immigration documents or the 1920 census.
Sam was identified as being age 28, which conflicted with all prior records.
*******
In 1930, the couple were again enumerated, this time in the Federal census. The enumerator, whose signature appears to be “Max Krahn” (or something like that) stated that he obtained the information on April 16, 1930.
Sam was identified as a “framer” of pocketbooks. He was identified as being 36 years of age, which conflicts by two years with the age that he provided to immigration authorities. Perhaps the enumerator was simply sloppy; Samuel was also incorrectly identified in the 1930 census as having been born in “Poland,” with parents who were both also born in “Poland,” notwithstanding other governmental records having identified him as being Austrian. The language he spoke? “Jewish,” according to the enumerator. Was that to mean Hebrew? Yiddish? Both?
Fannie was identified as age 30 (directly in conflict with the information she supplied in her immigration petition, which bears her signature) and as being “Russian,” with parents born in “Russia.” The 1930 census enumerator incorrectly wrote that her year of immigration was 1921. Fannie, too, was identified by the enumerator as speaking the “Jewish” language.
Although later records reflected that Sam and Fannie had a son named Irving who was born in 1926, Irving was not recorded in the 1930 census. Was he missed by the enumerator? Or was he a later-adopted son?
The couple also had a boarder, identified by the 1930 enumerator as one Esther “Larson,” age 40, born in Russia, and similarly a speaker of the “Jewish” language.
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The New York Birth Index identifies a baby boy, Robert Spiegel, as one of many babies having been born in the city on January 21, 1932.
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On May 21, 1936, Samuel committed suicide by hanging in the family residence, a tenement apartment located at 1168 Union Avenue, in the Bronx. Although, based upon the date of birth that Samuel used for official governmental purposes he was age 44, the death certificate stated that he was age 43.
Fannie engaged the Gordon Funeral Home to prepare him for burial.
Strangely, although Samuel’s headstone accurately identified him in Hebrew as Schmuel Spiegel, son of Avraham, it inexplicably incorrectly stated that he died at age 40.
Fannie of course knew her husband’s real age; both of them signed the marriage certificate that had Samuel’s correct age listed. Furthermore, Samuel had petitioned for citizenship in 1911, and stated that his date of birth was January 18, 1892.
Why would Fannie commission a headstone with a false age? Perhaps she, like her son, was a compulsive liar. Maybe that’s where Robert got it from.
*******
The 1940 census has Fannie (identified as age 38), Robert (identified as age 8), and Fannie’s son/Robert’s brother, Irving Spiegel, age 13, as living with Fannie’s 72-year-old mother, Esther Fleisfeder, at 1537 Fulton Avenue, in the Bronx. Fannie and Esther were identified as widows. Esther was identified as “U” (unable to work), while Fannie was identified as engaged in housework. No source of income for the family was identified.
No explanation is obvious regarding where Irving was living in the census taken a decade previously. Was he adopted?
There is no “Irving Spiegel” listed in the New York Birth Index for either 1926 or 1927. There is an “Irving Spiegal” listed, who was born April 29, 1926. But he is not Irving Spiegel.
I initially thought that perhaps Irving might be one of the unnamed Baby Boy Spiegels born in New York in 1926 or 1927, and that he left the hospital unnamed because his parents were waiting for his bris before naming him. However, Robert left the hospital with the name Robert. Why wait until the bris to name one child, but not the other?
*******
Slightly less than two years after she was enumerated in the 1940 census, Fannie’s mother Esther died, at home, at 1537 Fulton Avenue. The causes of death were “Coronary Thrombosis, Pulmonary Oedema Nephritis, Hypertension, Arteriosclerosis.” Esther left this world on February 6, 1942, the same day that the W. L. Steed was torpedoed, shelled and sunk less than a hundred nautical miles east of the mouth of Delaware River by a German submarine.
She was buried at Mount Moriah Cemetery in Fairview, New Jersey, the same cemetery where her son-in-law Samuel was interred.
*******
On November 12, 1943, Fannie, now residing at 1985 Bathgate Avenue, in the Bronx, petitioned for citizenship. She claimed, in that document bearing her signature, to be fifty years of age, meaning that if she was telling the truth, she would have been born in approximately 1893.
*******
On January 19, 1948, Robert (having assumed a false date of birth, that being January 18, 1931), enlisted in the New York National Guard. On paper, he had turned age 17 the day before his enlistment. In reality, he would be turning age 16 two days after his enlistment.
On December 9, 1949, Robert was discharged from the national guard, apparently for having been AWOL.
The discharge document identifies his address as being 1985 Bathgate Avenue, New York City.
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The 1950 census places Robert again at 1985 Bathgate Avenue, New York City. It correctly identifies him as age 18, and states that he worked as a shipping clerk for a newspaper company.
According to the 1950 census, Robert resided at the Bathgate Avenue address with his mother Fannie, who was purportedly still age 50 (seven years after she had previously claimed to immigration authorities to be age 50), and Robert’s brother Irving, age 24.
Irving was listed as unemployed and moreover, according to the census record, had not worked for the prior year. Fannie was employed full-time as a milliner in a hat factory.
*******
Military records reflect that Irving J. Spiegel, born in 1926 and a resident of 1985 Bathgate Avenue, who had completed two years of high school education, had flown bomber planes over Germany during the war. In his military documents, Irving described himself as single, with two dependents.
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On February 2, 1929, a baby girl given the name Aileen Beverly Leone Maxwell was born in Lucea, Hanover, Jamaica, to William Maxwell and Daisy (nee Tibbits) Maxwell. Her birth was registered by her parents.
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In 1954, Robert Spiegel and Aileen Maxwell were married in New York City. Their marriage license was given License No. 10284.
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The following year, the Kingston, Jamaica, Gleaner reported on June 6, 1955:
Miss Leonie Maxwell, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. W. J. Maxwell, was married recently in New York City to Mr. Robert Spiegel of the U.S.A. Both the bride and groom are students at the New York Institute of Dietetics. The bride left the island nearly two years ago for New York. Her wedding gown was chantilly lace and nylon tulle. The bodice was fashioned with a wide, scalloped neckline and elbow-length sleeves. Her three tier skirt of chantilly lace was over pleated nylon tulle. Her fingertip-length veil was adorned with pearls.
*******
If the claim regarding the couple studying at the New York Institute of Dietetics was even true, their studies at this institution didn’t last long. In May of 1956, a number of advertisements bearing Robert’s photograph appeared in the Kingston, Jamaica Gleaner. The advertisements described Robert as a psychologist, author, lecturer, and “practitioner in auto suggestion,” and identified him as “Dr. J. Robert Spiegel.” Readers were invited to come meet Robert on May 21, 1956, at Record Plaza, where he would be autographing his “latest” “world-wide” 33 and 1/3 RPM record, “How to Stop Smoking in 7 days by Auto-Suggestion.”
*******
On May 1, 1959, three residents of 1985 Bathgate Avenue, Bronx, New York, came through customs, having returned from a trip to Jamaica. They identified themselves as “Robert D. Spiegel” born in New York (in addition to giving himself a false middle initial, Robert neglected to complete the I-94-A fully, specifically by leaving his birthdate blank), “Leonie A. Spiegel” born in Jamaica on February 2, 1929, and their minor daughter, and “Sharon S. Spiegel,” born in New York. Someone also neglected to fully complete Sharon’s I-94-A, specifically by leaving her birthdate blank.
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Leonie had taken Sharon to Jamaica two years earlier. There are no publicly available records pertaining to their outbound transport from the United States to Jamaica. There is, however, a record pertaining to their return to the United States. That publicly available record does not provide their address, but Sharon is identified as weighing 1 stone 5 pounds (a total of 19 pounds), and Leonie is identified as weighing six stone 5 pounds (89 pounds). Interestingly, Leonie used the name “Aileen Spiegel,” and the records assert that Aileen has no middle initial. Aileen was / is her true legal first name, but it is a lie to say that she has no middle initial.
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Almost two years later, on January 5, 1958, the Kingston, Jamaica Gleaner reported:
Staying at the Tamarind Hotel are Mr. and Mrs. Bob Spiegel and daughter Sharon of Miami, Florida. Mrs. Spiegel is the former Leonie Maxwell, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. W. J. Maxwell of Lucea and has been in the United States for several years. A welcome party in their honour was given last Saturday night by Messers. Horrace, Ray, and Dennis Maxwell, brothers of Mrs. Spiegel. It was a very enjoyable affair.
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In 1963, roughly five years after their 1958 visit to Jamaica, Leonie petitioned for naturalization, in Louisiana. Although I am in possession of the index showing that she petitioned in 1963, I do not possess the petition itself. However, the fact that she petitioned for naturalization in Louisiana demonstrates that that at least she was residing in Louisiana at the time. Since she stated that she didn’t leave Robert’s side for over 40 years, presumably Robert, young Sharon, and also baby Michelle were living in Louisiana at that time.
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People who knew Robert personally relate that he stated that Leonie was a Cayman Island heiress. She wasn’t. Not only was she not born in the Cayman Islands, Leonie’s father’s estate was litigated (with the judge ruling against her) long before Robert started telling people that his wife was a Cayman Islands heiress.
Leonie’s father did leave an estate, but not to her. On November 9, 1967, the Gleaner reported that the Supreme Court had upheld the will of the late William Josiah Maxwell, the father of Horrace, Ray, Dennis, and Leonie, and the husband of Daisy Maxwell, who had contended that William’s signature was a forgery and that the person to whom his estate had been bequeathed had exercised undue influence. The court disagreed. The article reported:
The estate, which one of the executors described as “a sizeable one,” included 112 acres of land at Paradise and three houses at Lucea, Hanover.
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Robert apparently wasn’t banking on Leonie’s inheritance in any event. In May of 1966, advertisements appeared in the Houston Chronicle with Robert’s photo on them, selling a record that would purportedly assist people in stopping smoking in seven days. He identified himself as “Dr. J. Robert Spiegel.”
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On page 55 of the November 15, 1969, San Antonio, Texas Express and News, was an advertisement stating:
SCIENCE OF THE MIND
Dr. J. Robert Spiegel of Houston, director and founder of the Science of the Mind Foundation there, is conducting Sunday evening meetings at 7:30 p.m. in the Sheraton Inn, 1400 Austin Hwy.
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On page 4 of the July 10, 1970 edition of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram was a photograph of Robert, with a brief local news blurb:
GUEST – Dr. J Robert Spiegel of Houston, Science of Mind Foundation director, will speak at the 10:45 a.m. service tomorrow in First Church of Religious Science, 2001 6^th Ave. His subject is “What Religious Science Teaches.”
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On page 8 of the June 18, 1970 edition of the Houston Daily Cougar was this advertisement:
HOME OF UNIVERSAL LIFE
“Teaching Aquarian Meditation For The New Age
Meets Every Sunday, 11:00 A.M. At The World Trade Center Auditorium
Houston, Texas
DR. J. ROBERT SPIEGEL (BRAHMADANDA) DIRECTOR - FOUNDER
Aquarian Meditation Initiation for the first time offered through correspondence. For those sincere students wishing to bypass evolution and enter the 5th Kingdom. Initiation includes meditation technique, Mantra, how to "live” 24 hours a day, and much more. Write for application today:
P.O. Box 53328 Houston, Texas 052
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From the Galveston Daily News, May 02, 1971, Pg. 31:
AQUARIAN MEDITATION SOCIETY PRESENTS DR. J. ROBERT SPIEGEL AN AUTHOR, LECTURER, TEACHER OF YOGA & SELF DEVELOPMENT WILL SPEAK ON MAN, MIND & THE UNIVERSE WEDNESDAY, MAY 5th AT 7:30 P.M. IN THE RECREATION CENTER HARRIS COUNTY PARK, NASA RD. # 1 ALL WELCOME — DONATION $1.50
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The 1972 Spiritual Community Guide lists Robert twice, in the San Diego area. First, on page 117, using his alias “J. Robert Spiegel”:
THE TEMPLE OF METAPHYSICAL ABUNDANCE. J. Robert Spiegel, 1118 Torrey Pines Rd., 92037. Teaches yoga, nutrition, ESP, metaphysics, psychology, mind control
Second, on page 124, in which he, as one might have predicted, was masquerading as some sort of medical man or scholar:
"AQUARIAN MEDITATION SOCIETY, U. S. Grant Hotel, Attn: Dr. Robert Spiegel, 453-7588"
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Also in 1972, Volume 25 of San Diego Magazine published in November advertised gift certificates for the “Astrology Research Center.” “Give your loved one the gift of love. Only $50” said the advertisement. Where was this entity located? At 1118 Torrey Pines Road, the same address as Robert’s Temple of Metaphysical Abundance. The advertisement purported that person identified as “Lil Canaan” was the director. The telephone number was 459-6400.
In 2013, the San Diego Union Tribune published the obituary for Lillian Mulonas, who founded the La Jolla “Astrology Research Center.” At this point in time, unless Robert Adams’ only surviving daughter, Michelle/ Prentiss/ Avantae knows the answer and talks, we will not know what relationship, if any, existed between Robert’s Temple of Metaphysical Abundance and Lilian’s Astrology Research Center, both of which were located at 1118 Torrey Pines Road in 1972.
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From the July 12, 1973, San Diego Reader:
BRAHMADANDA FOUNDATION
“Teachings of the Cosmic Way” meets Sundays, 11:00 a.m., U.S. Grant Hotel, Crystal Room. Free admission, refreshments served. Call 453-7588 for more information.
*******
On page 51 of the June 29, 1974 edition of Phoenix’s Arizona Republic was the following advertisement:
Speaker from San Diego
Dr. J. Robert Spiegel from San Diego, a traveler and lecturer, will speak at 8 p.m., Friday in Universal Series Center, 4340 N. Seventh Ave., on the topic “Science of Being.”
He is the founder of the “Aquarian Meditation Society” in Jamaica and is founder and publisher of “Equinox,” a philosophical newspaper.
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The family (Adams or Spiegel, however one might want to refer to them) have resided in (that I know of) New York, Miami, Jamaica, Louisiana, La Jolla, Los Angeles, Houston, New Mexico, Hawaii, Las Vegas, Scottsdale, Sedona, and a number of cities in North Carolina.
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In at least the 1990’s, before he left for Sedona, Robert Adams used the address PO Box 7210, Jordan Avenue, D-30, Canoga Park, CA. He used that address on correspondence he wrote, and on at least one published document. Who else used that address? The data aggregators show that this address was also used by a Michelle K. Spiegel, and a person going by the name Leonie Maxwell. Michelle and Leonie also used other addresses associated with Robert, those being 1815 Willis Avenue Panorama City, and 21551 Burbank Boulevard, Woodland Hills.
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The California Birth Index shows that Michelle K. Spiegel was born on October 1, 1960, in Los Angeles County, to a mother with the maiden name Maxwell.
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In later life, Michelle used the addresses above that are associated with Robert and Leonie, as well as an address of 12004 Vanowen Street #14, North Hollywood. This is the same address at which Denniston Keith Maxwell, one of Leonie’s younger brothers, resided at, after his immigration to the United States. Denniston was one of Michelle’s uncles.
In a recent Facebook posting, Michelle/Avantae stated: “Never knew anything personal about said uncles, etc. Never asked, never cared.” Really? She shared an address with an uncle? Her uncle lived within a few minutes’ drive from her parents, and Michelle/Avantae never knew anything about him?
As an aside, Michelle/Avantae alleged (or admitted) that she “never cared” about anything personal regarding her uncles. If that is true, what does that tell us about Michelle/Avantae’s fundamental character? Antisocial? Psychopathic? Narcissistic in the extreme?
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On August 2, 1996, Michelle, going by the name Avantae E. Deven, married Tyson Ruben Alvarez in Las Vegas. The two had addresses in common in Arizona, Nevada, and Montana.
*******
Robert “Adams” died on or about March 2, 1997, in Sedona, Arizona.
Shortly after that, in the spring of 1997, “Nicole Adams” and “Avantae Deven” (both aliases; the correct legal names are Aileen Beverly Leonie Spiegel and Michelle K. Spiegel) purchased a home together in Sedona, on Navahopi Road. Shortly after the purchase, “Nicole” quit-claimed her portion to “Avantae.”
On July 17, 2001, Tyson, still married to “Avantae,” quit-claimed any interest in the Navahopi property to “Avantae,” and had the county recorder send the deed to “Avantae” in care of the Infinity Institute, at that time located at 9101 W. Sahara Ave. Suite 105 C29 (in other words, a private post box), in Las Vegas.
Avantae divorced Tyson in 2006. She had, by then, moved to North Carolina. She “served” Tyson via publication summons, claiming that she was unable to find him, despite his information being on multiple data aggregators.
You can go to various Facebook groups, and other sources, to pull up the documents that people have uncovered showing who is associated with the "Infinity Institute," and in what fashion, and also the addresses that they have used over the years.
In any event, this is the information regarding Robert that I think that people need to be aware of.
Why turn to a known liar and con man for spiritual guidance?
1A tallis is a prayer shawl.
2The ship’s manifest states that he was age 14, which conflicts by one year with what Samuel identified as his date of birth. These errors are not uncommon; his fare could have been purchased when he was age 14 and the records not updated.

Since after World War II, linguists, due to lack of interest in Kurdish studies, have often neglected the pre-Iranic substratum in Kurdish and focused merely on the Irano-Kurdish layer. Of the Urartian language is not much known either (about 300 words), however, a strong majority of its known words have a identical or at least close equivalent in Kurdish. Urartian though closely related to Hurrian, sound more similar to Kurdish than does Hurrian; this may depend on the fact that Hurrian was spoken at an earlier time period. Mannaean was another Hurro-Urartian-related dialect spoken south of lake Urmia.
It is also worth noting that Armenian scholars have found a few Urartian words in Armenian, which appear to be borrowings via Kurdish.
Urartian: Ale (he says) Kurdish: Ale ئەڵێ (he says)
Urartian: Shuri (sword) Kurdish: Shur شوور (sword) Armenian: Sowr
Urartian: Kuri (foot, leg) Kurdish: Qul قول (foot, leg)
Urartian: xur (deep) Kurdish: xuqul/kur خووڕ/قوول/کوور (deep),
Hurrian: agul (carve) Kurdish: 'kol-[în]' کۆڵین : (to digg), kêla: (plow)
Urartian: shini (you, plural) Kurdish: hin هین/هون (you, plural, cf. sh>h a regular sound change in Kurdish)
Urartian: apa (he/she/it) Kurdish: awa, aw/ava, av cf. Kurdish p>w and p>v ئەوە (he/she/it)
Urartian: Sale (kid) Kurdish: Zaro زارۆ (kid) Armenian: jar (he-goat)
Urartian: tali (stick) Kurdish: têla (stick, cf. Kurdish a>ê)
10) Urartian: papi/bab/babani (mountain top) Kurdish: pope پۆپە (head)/ bani بانی (mountain top)
Urartian: qal/kar (kill/slay, subjugate) Kurdish: qir قڕ (kill, slay, cf Kurdish a>i)
Hurrian: shur (war) Kurdish: sher شەڕ (war)
Urartian: bidia (turn) Kurdish: bada-n بادان (turn)
Urartian: da (give) Kurdish: da, دا (give, Iranic and other IE languages have a similar lexeme)
Urartian: xus/hush (throw) Kurdish: xis-[tin]/hawish-[tin] خستن/هاویشتن (throw, cf Kurdish u>i)
Urartian: karbe (rock, stone) Kurdish: karra کەڕا (rock, stone) Armenian: qar (rock, stone)
Urartian: quira (earth, dust) Kurdish: qur, xol قوڕ/خۆڵ (earth, dust)
Hurrian: arte (earth, soil) Kurdish: ard ئەرد/هەرد (earth, soil, cf Kurdish rt > rd)
Urartian: $erab (dry) Kurdish: chora چۆڕا (dry) Armenian: caraw (dry)
20) Urartian: eue (and) Kurdish: u ئوو (and) but see even Iranic ''ut''
Urartian: tur ( to leave) Kurdish: tor-[an], تۆران to leave
Urartian: ul (to go) Kurdish: lu-wan لوان (to go)
Urartian: ulhu (order) Kurdish: ol ئۆل (religion)
Urartian: bura (slave, servant) Kurdish: bora بۆرە (commoner, low-class)
Urartian: xarxar (destroy) Kurdish: xirxal خرخاڵ (destroyed)
Urartian: ale (but) Kurdish: lê لێ (but)
Urartian: duli (grape) Kurdish: trê, tirî ترێ (grape, cf. l>r and u>i) Armenian: toli (grape)
Urartian: kapi (capacity measure) Kurdish: kap/qap کاپ/قاپ (capacity measure)
Urartian: nah (to bring) Kurdish: hên-an/han-în هانین/هێنان (to bring)
30) Urartian: pare (toward) Kurdish: pîr پیر (toward),
Urartian: pile (water canal) Kurdish: pil-û-sk پلووسک (rain canal)
Urartian: tan (lay down) Kurdish: dan-[an] دانان (lay down)
Hurrian: id- (hit, strike) Kurdish: -d- (hit strike); ([lê] d-[an])
Urartian: teq- (to thump, to break) Kurdish: teq-[în] تەقین (to thump, to break)
Urartian: uzgi (power, strength) Kurdish: wuze وزە (power, strength, cf. Kurdish u- > w-)
Urartian: mari (lord, horseman) Kurdish: mir میر (lord, compare also with the Semitic ''Amir'')
Urartian: shu/shia (to go) Kurdish: chu, چوو (to go, cf. also Iranic ''shiyaw'')
Urartian: euri (lord) Kurdish: hêwir هێور (brave)
Urartian: xarari (calm) Kurdish: oqre ئۆقرە (calm), Armenian:
40) Urartian: zar (orchard) Kurdish: zar زار (orchard) Armenian: car (tree)
Urartian: ur (to place down) Kurdish: wer-[in], وەرین (to place down, cf. Kurdish u-> w- )
Urartian: wal, (to win) Kurdish: wêr-an وێران (to dare)
Urartian: zelbi (descendant) Kurdish: zol زۆڵ (bastard)
Urartian: zeld, (to shatter the enemies) Kurdish: zal زاڵ (to shatter the enemies)
Urartian: qarqar (throat) Kurdish: qurg قورگ (throat, compare also with the Irano-Kurdish garû, and Persian galu, there is also another word in Kurdish: qurquroska)
Hurrian: kut/kud (to make fall, to kill) Urartian: qot (piece) Kurdish: kut کوت (piece), kut-a کوتان (to smash), kud (to kill)
Urartian: xubi (valley) Kurdish: qopi قۆپی (valley, vale, plain)
Urartian: xare (to march, to raid) Kurdish: xar غار (to march, to raid)
Hurrian: Hiuri (smoke) Kurdish: Hulm هوڵم (steam)
50) Urartian: $ue (river, lake) Kurdish: chom/gom چۆم/گۆم (rive lake) Armenian: cov (lake)
Hurrian: tiv (word) Urartian: tiw (to speak) Kurdish: diw-an دوان (to speak)
Urartian: abeli/aweli (attach, increase) Kurdish: awale/awela ئاواڵە/ئاوەڵا (open)
Urartian: an, (no) Kurdish: na, نا (no; there is also a similar equivalent in Iranic)
Urartian: ari-beri Kurdish: birin برن (to carry, there is also a similar equivalent in Iranic)
Urartian: ewani/ebani (land) Kurdish: -wan وان (suffix used after place-names)
Urartian: kulune (side) Kurdish: qulin-chk قولینچک/ qurne قوڕنە (side, corner) Armenian: koln
Urartian: man (to stay) Kurdish: man مان (to stay), (resembles even Iranic, cf. New Persian ''mandan'')
Urartian: mana Urartian: me (prohibitive particle) Kurdish: me مە (prohibitive particle)
60) Urartian: pahi (cattle) Hurrian: pedari (cattle) Kassite: badar (bull, cattle) Kurdish: patal پاتاڵ (cattle) Armenian: paxre
Urartian: par, to take off Kurdish: pirr [-dan] پڕ (to take off, cf. Kurdish a>i)
Urartian: kamn (old, earlier) Kurdish: kavn/kawn کەڤن/کەون (old, cf. m>v but also Iranic ''kohan'' which has led to Kurdish ''kon'')
Urartian: pe? (under) Kurdish: pe? پێ (under, foot, cf. even Iranic pey)
Urartian: shid (build) Kurdish: chê-[kirin], چێ (build cf, kurdish d>nil)
Hurrian: awari Kurdish: awari ئەواری (land, country, field, cf. kurdawari, کوردەواری / warê me وارێ مە) (Armenian agarak has been suggested as an Armenian loan from 'awari'. Kurdish has even 'garak' with the same meaning). Urartian: ur (territory)
Urartian: qapqari Kurdish: gamaro (p>w>m cf Kurdish ziman Urartian: sher (hide) Kurdish: sheshar شێر/وەشارتن (hide)
Urartian: quldi (uninhabited) Kurdish: kawil (کاول) (annihilate,destruction)
Urartian: ar- (give) Kurdish: ar- (give, dialectal as in Slêmanî, for example: ''bi-ar-ê'': بیەرێ ''give him'')
70) Urartian: ture (destroy) Kurdish: ture تووڕە (angry)
Urartian: aba (desire) Kurdish: awat ئاوات (desire), aw-in ئەوین (to love)
Urartian: ada (again) Kurdish: idi ئیدی (another, anymore)
Urartian: shal-i (year) Kurdish: sal ساڵ (year, but Iranian ''sard'', New Persian has also ''sal'') Armenian: tari
Urartian: šeh-i/eri/e, living Kurdish: zhiyar ژیار (living)
Urartian: arnu-ia (come to the aid of) Kurdish: hana هانا (come to the aid of, cf Kurdish a- >ha- )
Urartian: lak- (to destroy) Kurdish: Rûx-[an] رووخان (to destroy)
Urartian: 'are (granary) Kurdish: harr هاڕ (granary, cf Kurdish ha-<-a, notice 'zimharr' زمهاڕ, meaning 'winter granary')
Urartian: ieshti (here) Kurdish: hêsthte هێشتە (now)
Urartian: meshe (part, tribute, share) Kurdish: mûche مووچە (part, tribute, share)
80) Urartian: pi$ushe (joy) Kurdish: pishû پشوو (holyday, vacation)
Hurrian: sheshe (six) Kurdish: shesh شەش (six, but it is the same even in Iranic)
Urartian: izidu (admonish, command) Kurdish: ezidi ئێزیدی (name of a native religion in Kurdistan)
urartian: yarani (kind of cultic building, altar) Kurdish: yari یاری (name of a native religion in Kurdistan)
Urartian: aleu (dignity) Kurdish: alewi ئالەوی (name of a native religion in Kurdistan)
Urartian and Hurrian: /-i/, /-iye/ (his, her, its) Kurdish: /-i/, /-y/ ی (his, her, its)
Hurrian: /-v/ (your) Kurdish: /-w/ و (your)
Urartian: ushanu (award, bestow, feel affection for ) Kurdish: wuchan وچان (rest, reprieve)
Urartian: napahia (submission, bondage, domestication) Kurdish: nawi نەوی (low, a low level, position or degree), (p>w)
Urartian: tur (defeat, destroy) Kurdish: dor- دۆڕ (defeat)
90) Urartian: sal-zi (steep, abrupt) Kurdish: sila سڵا (height)
Urartian: sil-e (woman, doughter) Kurdish: selar سەلار (mistress of the house, beautiful woman) (note ''Selardi'', a lunar goddess of Urartu)
Urartian: lutu (woman) Kurdish: lute لووتە (quoquettish woman)
Urartian: uldie (vineyard) Kurdish: lote لۆتە (grapes hanged in order to be sun dried in a vineyard)
Urartian: nikidu (water) Kurdish: niqdo/niqût نقووت/نقدۆ (water infiltration, water dropping, water penetration), (plus some other cognates of the word)
Urartian: kan/kain (in front of) Kurdish: kin کن (in front of, near) (but cf. also Iranic ''kenar'')
Urartian: haš-ia: (be interested in) Kurdish: haz حەز (be interested in, love, like)
Urartian: d-u-: (do, cause to do) Kurdish: da/di: ده/د (do, cause to do, used as a preffix for verbs)
Urartian: shalur (medlar) Kurdish: shalor شەلۆر (nectarine) Armenian: salor (plum) (clearly borrowed via Kurdish)
Urartian: mure (house) Kurdish: mal ماڵ (house)
100) Urartian: urishi (weapon) Kurdish: hereshe هەڕەشە (threat), /(there is also ''huruzhim'': هوروژم attack)
Hurrian: shini (two) Kurdish: shingil شنگڵ (twin, twin fruit)
Urartian: egur-hu (free) Kurdish: xorayi خۆرایی (free)
Urartian: bad-gul (surround) Kurdish: bawe-xulê باوەخولێ (turn around, also a kids game)
Urartian: aish-ti (leap, jump) Kurdish: hej-an هەژان (quake)
Urartian: ibirani (whole, complete, full) Kurdish: pirani پڕانی (majority)
Hurrian: hinzur (apple? pear?) Kurdish: hencor هەنجۆر (unripe melon)
Urartian: kut-u (reach) Kurdish: (geh<*ged) گەهشتن/گەیشتن (reach)
Urartian: ai/ay: (look, take care) Kurdish: aw-ir ئاوڕ (look)
Urartian: di/erasia (fear) Kurdish: tirs ترس (fear, but cf. also Iranic ''tars'')
110) Urartian: Ti/er-usi, measure for liquid Kurdish: Telîs?تەلیس measure of unit
Hurrian: ben Kassite: ban Kurdish: minal مناڵ (child)
Kassite: nadz (shade) Kurdish: nisê نسێ (shade)
Kassite: ulam (son, child) Urartian: alaue (man) Kurdish: law لاو (young boy)
Hurrian: çugi Kassite: tsugi Kurdish: chuk چووک (small)
Hurrian: ewri (dog) Kurdish wer-în وەرین (barking of dog)
Hurrian: shiye (watery) Kurdish: she شە (moisture)
Urartian: zainua (high) Kurdish: zinar زنار (high cliff, high boulder)
Hurrian: shalmi (ashes, to burn) Kurdish zhilemo ژیلەمۆ (burning ashes)
Urartian: amash (burnt) Kurdish mêsh مێش (burnt ashes) (cf. ê 120) Hurrian: puhi (nose) Kurdish: (kepû) کەپۆ (nose)
Urartian: shepuiaru (spoil) Kurdish: sheprêwشپڕێو (disorderly)
Urartian: mesh- (distribute, share) Kurdish: wesh-[an] وەشان (distribute, share)
Urartian: teribi (monument) Kurdish: tirb ترب (monument, grave) (not be confused with Arabic 'turbat': soil)
Hurrian: fur-i (viw) Urartian: wur-i (view) Kurdish: wuria وریا (viewer, careful), awur ئاووڕ (sight), (even the Kurdish verb ''ruwan''-[in] (view) is likely connected to the Urartian ''wur'', rarther than being a metathesis for Iranic ''negar'')
Hurrian: halv- (enclose) Kurdish: hal- هاڵ (enclose)
Urartian: kul-me (wealth, prosperity) Kurdish: kel-k کەڵک (profitable, usefulness)
Hurrian: pâl (false) Kurdish: fêl فێڵ (fraud)
Hurrian: tapsh- (destroy) Kurdish: tawjm تەوژم (pressure), tapi (destroy)
Hurrian: apxe (louse) Kurdish: aspe ئەسپێ (louse)
130) Hurrian: kapp- (fill) Kurdish: kipp کپ (filled)
Hurrian: azhoge (meal) Kurdish: azhge/zig (stomach)
Hurrian: kul- (to speak) Kurdish: qul- قوول (to speak aloud)
Hurrian: timeri (black) Kurdish: tem تەم (darkness)
Urartian: tara-gie (powerful, strong) Kurdish: daraqat دەرەقەت (to be powerful, to be strong)
Urartian: tam-hu (eliminate separate) Kurdish: toq-[andin] Urartian: shi-u (carry away) Kurdish: shi-[andin] (send)
Urartian: anda-ni (right) Kurdish: and ئاند (right)
Urartian: irb-u (take away grab) Kurdish: rev-[andin]/rif-[andin] (take away, grab) (but cf. also Iranian 'robudan', take away, grab)
Urartian: pit- (beat apart, destroy) Kurdish: pis-/pichr- (beat apart, destroy)
140) Urartian: tishni (heart) Kurdish: dine دنە (encourage) (cf. t > d & sh > nil)
Urartian: ti-ni (name) Kurdish: deng دەنگ (voice)
Urartian: bauše (word) Kurdish: wuše وشە (word)
Urartian: durba (revolt, rebel) Kurdish: tola (revenge)
Urartian: hut-ia (to ask) Kurdish: qut-abî (student)
Hurrian: fir (remove, untie) Kurdish: fir, firê (throw)
Hurrian: halme (singing) Kurdish: hore هۆرە (singing)
Hurrian: havur (heaven) Kurdish: hawr (cloud), (note also Indo-Iranic abra)
Urartian: agu (lead away) (of IE origin?) Kurdish: ajo-[tin] ئاژۆتن (lead away, drive)
Hurrian: asti (woman) Kurdish: astê (name of a beloved woman in Kurdish folklore)
150) Hurrian: tav/(-b) (to cast metal) Kurdish: taw (thaw, melt)
Hurrian: ai (if) Kurdish: ai (if)
Hurrian: alilan (lament) Kurdish: lalan (lament)
Hurrian: çabalgi (fault) Kurdish: çapal چەپەڵ (dirty)
Hurrian: xiyari (all) Kurdish: xir (all)
Hurrian: çere (donkey) Kurdish: ker (donkey)
Hurrian: çik- (break) Kurdish: shik- (break)
Hurrian: xîri (hour, time, moment) Kurdish: xêra خێرا (soon, hurry)
Hurrian: xizli (coiled) Kurdish: cexiz جەخز(coiled)
Hurrian: xub- (to break, to destroy) Kurdish: qup- (to break, to destroy)
160) Hurrian: istani (between, among) Kurdish: astang ئاستەنگ (obstacle)
Hurrian: izikun- (to wail) Kurdish: zikan- (to wail)
Hurrian: kakari (sort of ritual bread) Kurdish: kullêre, kellane (sort of ritual bread)
Hurrian: magunni (desire) Kurdish: magirani (desire)
‌Hurrian: shakari or sagari (sprout, bud) Kurdish: chakara چەکەرە (sprout, bud)
Hurrian: arushal (hurry) Kurdish: halasha هەڵەشە (stressful)
Hurrian: heni (now) Kurdish: henu-ke, niha, neha (now)
Hurrian: parili (crime) Kurdish: palamar پەلامار (attack)
Hurrian: adi (thus) Kurdish: dai (thus)
Hurrian: ak-i/u (other) Kurdish: -ka (other)
170) Hurrian: we (thou) Kurdish: ê-we (you)
Hurrian: buru (strong) Kurdish: wure ورە (strength)
Hurrian: çam (rip) Kurdish çam (bend)
Hurrian: zurgi (blood) Kurdish: zûx (blood), (compare, xwênaw=zûxaw)
Hurrian: xahli (cheek) Kurdish: kulm (cheek)
Hurrian: halwu (fence made with stones) Kurdish: hêl هێڵ (fence)
Hurrian: xawirni (lamb) Kurdish kawir کاوڕ (young sheep)
Hurrian: xamaz- (oppress) Kurdish chaws- (oppress)
Hurrian: hendz (constrain) Kurdish: hêndj (constrain)
Hurrian: xerari (sinew) Kurdish: kiroje (sinew)
180) Hurrian: xeshmi (bright) Kurdish: gesh (bright)
Hurrian: kalgi (weak) Kurdish qals/qirj (weak)
Hurrian: nali (deer) Kurdish: nêrî (male adult goat)
Hurrian: nawn- (pasture) Kurdish: naw- (pasture)
Hurrian: ul- (to, eat, to devour) Kurdish: lawar( la-war-) (to devour)
Hurrian: ubi (stupid, insane) Kurdish: hapa (stupid, insane)
Hurrian: ashxu (high) Kurdish: shax (mountain), also 'asê' means: uppward, high.
Hurrian: kaziari (high mountains of the Mesopotamian valley) Kurdish: kazh (high mountain)
Hurrian: kewiranna (the senate, the old men) Kurdish: gewran (the big ones, the adult ones)
Hurrian: kuzh- (to keep, to retain) Kurdish: kush- (to hold in hands, to press in hands), alt: Kurdish qoz- (to catch)
190) Hurrian: nekri ( Hurrian: shalhi (to listen) Kurdish: shil (listen)
Hurrian: siba (dry) Kurdish: zuwa زوا (dry)
Urartian: dibi (building, room) Kurdish: diw دیو (room)
Hurrian: shu (day) Kurdish: shawa-ki (morning, day)
Hurrian: shirat (narrate) Kurdish: shirove (narrate)
Hurrian: tishan (very much) Kurdish: tizha تژە (full)
Urartian: sutug (tear away, unjoin) Kurdish: shetek (knot)
Urartian: gey (anything) Kurdish gi گ (anything)
Hurrian: baz (enter) Kurdish: baz (pass by)
200) Hurrian: xeban-: (to set moving) Kurdish: xebi- خەبتین (to be active)
Hurrian: hamadz-: (to oppress) Kurdish: chaws- (to oppress)
Hurrian: haz- (to hear) Kurdish: bihiz-: (to hear)
Hurrian: xaz (to oil) Kurdish: xiz (oily, slippery)
Hurrian: pas- (to send somebody) Kurdish: pas- (to send, as in 'hal pasardin': 'to send into exile')
‌Hurrian: shagari (ram) Kurdish: shak (young sheep)
Hurrian: pal (know, understand) Kurdish: fêr (learn)
Urartian: -kai (position, in place) Kurdish: -ka (location suffix)
Urartian: muš- (true, fair) Kurdish: mušur موشوور (fairness)
Hurrian: abi (in front of) Kurdish: ba (in front of, near)
210) Hurrian: shimi (sun) Kurdish: shem (sun) (focilized in shemshemekwere, ''blind for the sun'': ''bat''.
Urartian: derzu/derju (order, arrangement) Kurdish: darêj- (order, arrangement)
Urartian: tep- (throw down) Kurdish: tep- (throw down)
Urartian: atqan: (to consecrate) Kurdish: tarxân (to consecrate)
Urartian: shuki (as) Kurdish: waki < hoki Hurrian: hur (drink) Urartian: xurishe (irrigator) Kurdish: qurishke قوریشکە (cup)
Urartian: ulx (flow out) Kurdish: bilqبڵق (b Urartian: alga-ni (mountain) Kurdish: Lêj لێژ (abrupt, steep)
Urartian: auiei (somewher) Kurdish: awê ئەوێ (there)
Urartian: puluse (inscription, stele) Kurdish: psule (voucher, receipt)
220) Urartian: niribe (herd) Kurdish: ran (herd)
Urartian: iese/ieshe? (I, pronoun) Kurdish: ez ئەز (I, resembles also the old Iranian 'azm', but which one is 'az' actually derives of? Armenians claim Armenian 'yes' (I) is derived of Ur. 'iese
Urartian: armuzi (family, clan, generation) Kurdish: hoz هۆز (clan) + rama (seed, from to-rama)
Hurrian: hemz (surround) Kurdish: amêz, hembêz ئامیز (hug)
Urartian: zani (cry out) Kurdish: zhan, jan, ژان (agony)
Hurrian: karshi (lips) Kurdish: kalpa کەڵپە (animal lips)
Hurrian: wirwir (loosen) Kurdish: wilwil ولوڵ (loosen)
Kassite: ash (earth, soil) Hurrian: esh (earth, soil) Kurdish: ax ئاخ (earth, soil)
Urartian: qarmexî (gift, present, sacrifice, celebration) Kurdish: qelin قەلین (gift, dowry)
Urartian: -atuhi (-ness) Kurdish: -ati (-ness)
230) Urartian: aman- (vessel, pot) Kurdish: aman- ئامان (vessel, pot)
God of lightning and storm Hurrian: Teshup Urartian: Tesheba Kassite: Tishpak Kurdish: Tishk تیشک (light, radiance)
Hurrian: shu (hand) Kurdish: shop (hand palm)
Hurrian: chilman- (to break, vanish) Kurdish: chilmis- (fade)
Urartian: shur (wall around a castle, fence, borders of the kingdom) Kurdish: shure (wall around a castle, fence)
Hurrian: xalwu (fence made with stones) Kurdish: xal خەڵ (fence made with stones)
Hurrian: ya/ye (who, which, what) Kurdish: ya/ye (who, which, what)
Hurrian: tun- (to win) Kurdish: tuna توونا (defeated, destroyed)
Hurrian: taridi (pot) Kurdish: tirar (pot)
Hurrian: kol (let off) Kurdish: kol (let off) (as in ''le kol bunewe'')
240) Hurrian:shir (to be suffiecent) Kurdish: têr (to be suffiecent)
Hurrian: ha (take) Kurdish: ha
Hurrian: tijari (spindle) Kurdish: teshi (spindle)
Hurrian: ábri (stock of wood-logs) Kurdish: awirdu (stock of wood-logs), awirig (oven)
Hurrian: baq- (destroy) Kurdish: baq- بەقین (explode)
Hurrian: bashi (mouth)Armenianlake Urmia Kurdish: bêj (to say), (common a>ê)
Hurrian: pashixi (message) Kurdish: pazhux (answer)
Hurrian: tad- (love) Kurdish: dalal (beloved) (common d>l)
Hurrian: tagi (beatiful) Urartian: taugi (clean) Kurdish: daq دەق (cheerful)
Hurrian: hild-/held- (high, raise, elevate) Kurdish: hild-/held- هەڵدان/هڵدان (rasie, elevate)
250) ‌Hurrian: kabli (copper) Kurdish: paqir پاقڕ (copper)
Kassite: kukla (slave) Kurdish: kukla (doll), kukm (homeless)
Hurrian: kumdi (tower) Kurdish: kumadj کۆماج (column)
Hurrian: kubakhi (hood) Kurdish: kumik (hood)
Urartian: korde (uncultivated, desolate) Kurdish: kode (uncultivated, desolate)
Hurrian: kundzi (to kneel) Kurdish: kudik (knee)
Hurrian: Xiríti (trench) Kurdish: Xir (trench)

I don't really no where to start. I feel I've lost myself, consumed with anxiety and guilt and fear and regret and I fear, this new fear, that it's going to be the end of me if I don't start to get it out in some way, shape or form.
I guess I'll begin at the beginning...
​
I had a difficult childhood with fairly neglectful parents. A mother who openly expressed she never felt she really stepped into her mom shoes until she gave birth to my younger sister, who is three years younger than me. She is my only sibling. My mother told me when I was a kid that she "had to love me", but when my sister came around "she was finally a mother and over the moon", or simply "I always always wanted a girl". I'm not sure if this could be attributed to Post-partum depression, not that she ever researched that or was daignosed with it. That's probably just me trying to pardon my mother or something to the effect. She was 17 when she had me and I'm sure times were different then, my parents both were raised religious, father christian, mother mormon. Maybe their guilt. I ask myself why they brought me into this world if I wasn't wanted to begin with. Or, give me up for adoption to a set of guardians that would have loved me better. I know I was an accident and that's not what gets me down, I get that life be lifing and what happened happened. My difficulties stem from the feeling that my presence never gave my mother any sense of purpose, responsibility or love, or concern. She was emotionally unavailable to me virtually my entire life and I feel like that caused many issues later in my life and how I perceive myself and what I deserve. Coupled with the fact that my neglect met such extremes that I am frankly shocked that I was never picked up by child care services, maybe things were different in the 90's. I'm not sure, I was just a child then.
Much of my upbringing I didn't receive a lot of the things most people would consider essential. As a baby my crib was the sock drawer, then I grew large enough to have a closet, then slept on the floor of a walk-in closet, then I had a single bed from what I recall for maybe a year or maybe two years and I remember feeling metal springs poke me in the my ribs and I recall it being uncomfortable enough for me to move back to sleeping on the floor next to the ratty old used mattress my father found from who knows where. I remember feeling like I had to keep that secret, that the mattress they gave me was uncomfortable enough for me to sneak sleeping on the floor next to it. I think I was really afraid as coming across as ungrateful. My father came from a third world country, so the "gratefullness issue" was address frequently by my mom because "I don't have it even half as bad as what my father had to endure. And she was probably right. But it just silenced me ultimately, didn't put things into a mature context for me. I just learned that I can't complain about anything ever. Anyway, that trend didn't really change when I grew older. grade 9-10 I was sleeping on the living room couch so my sister could have privacy and a bedroom to exist in for herself - which I realize is important for an individual so I encouraged her to have the bedroom. Although I figured my parents expected me to do this for my sister regardless. I was okay with making sacrfices for those I love, it was instilled in me from a very very young age.
I do feel like my father took advantage of me in the form of labour as well, having to do custodial work with my father from 10pm to 3am, at two highschools I believe he was contracted, at that young age I honestly enjoyed just spending time with my father I think, working alongside him. When I was in grade 2 and 3 I had garbage bag duty for all the students bathrooms, and I remember loving snapping the bags open by rushing air into the bag and making it blow up like a baloon. I remember the scary unlit shadowy hallways that I couldn't perceive the ends of. No bodies to see, it felt eerie but exciting in a way - like it was a whole different world.
School was a different experience for me. It was very stressful, my parents had to move a few times a year because they would dodge rent or just generally be selfish with their dual income. They loved to party hard on the weekends. I remember wondering why my father did this to himself all the time. Hoping that we could spend quality time on a saturday, but he wouldnt get out of bed until just before dinner. I didn't really understand hangovers or alcoholism and how it meant our plans would get cancelled. I think I remember trying to wrap my head around willful self-poisoning for entertainment and how could that be more enjoyable then spending time with your son? I couldn't tell my mother why I was so sad about it. Why I didn't want to move again and again and again. Why I found it so difficult to make new friends everytime I had to switch schools. Why I couldn't just do one single full school year with one class of students. It was so hard and at the time, I didn't know anything different. It was so hard to make friends and I think it created this approach to making a "new family" of friends when I became a teenager and young adult.
​
I remember always wanting to be a "good kid". The "best kid" for my parents. I feel like my parents attached this moniker to me that made things harder for me to mature into a rounded adult later in life. My parents always flaunted me as this point of accomplishment, the accomplishment that I was "so extremely well behaved". I would strive to be super polite, and a good host, try to help out when my parents had their friends over, literally fill their cups when the opportunity presented themselves. I think I did this because I must have made the conclusion that if I was quiet, super polite, helpful and useful then I had value. That I could be loved. That I could earn this love from my parents through acts of service.
I remember feeling like my sister and I had extremely different experiences growing up. When my parents were at work I took care of her, cleaned and cooked. one time my sister told my mom to eff off when she was 5 and I was 8. My mind was blown. I couldn't wrap my head around the fact that she had the bravery and courage to defy my mother. Looking back, my sister was just mirroring the language she learned from my parents from whenever they fought. I remembering seriously worrying and getting scared that my father was going to belt her, or use the coat hanger, which was his preference with me. I feel like my mom was always checked out and I'm hurt that she allowed my father to take his rage out on me. That my mom could care less about me being beat, but never my sibling. It was very confusing and difficult for me to process. Not that I really processed it much as a kid. I honestly just wanted to be loved and be the best child possible. Honestly though, 'm seriously so glad that my sister was spared all of that complete non-sense. I don't wish that on anyone in the world. There were some punishments where he would walk in and tell me to pull my pants down without explanation. I have memories of tearing up and saying I didn't know why this was happening, asking what I did wrong and he would just remind me that if I resisted then I would get it worse and to hurry up and get ready. My father has since apologized. I think it is how he was raised. I didn't know what to say in response, but I told him I loved him and it's in the past. But I don't know if I was being honest when I said that. My mother would still gaslight me to this day if any of this became topic of discussion, not that I'm guessing. A year ago she told me that much of my pained memories were false and this never happened. My father on the other hand typically stays pensive and unchallenging.
It seems so damned crazy writing all of this out, it feels like a heartbreaking novel and not my life at all. But it was and is my life. I have difficulties opening up and expressing my feelings and advocating for myself when the moments are true and appropriate to do so. I know it's the healthier way to communicate, but I was literally taught to stay quiet and be useful. Fast forward 20-25 years and I'm going to be 35 and I feel like just ending it all. Every year my birthday passes and I'll get a text from my family happy birthday. But they know I'm in a difficult place, they know I miss them, they know I love them and forgive them, I try the high road whenever I can but I just don't see the point anymore. they won't celebrate my life and existence, but they'll throw family gatherings for each other, birthdays, christmas, fathers day and mothers day.
On that note, another mother's day has recently passed and my mother never invited me over, I texted my father three weeks in advance in hopes of securing a time to come over and celebrate my mothers life with my family as a family. I felt particularly stung this mother's day when they celebrated and didn't text or call to invite me over. I live in the same small town so it's easy to hop over. I literally live three blocks away.
Anyway, my mother was diagnosed with cancer over christmas this year and I have been worrying for my mother ever since and thinking about my life with her and the mortal coil and the finite mount of time I may have with her. I feel like there is a large empty part in my heart that wishes my mother and I could go grab a coffee together. She can show me her ipad app art that she has been really excited about for a couple years now. She loves showing off her digital art and I love seeing her joy and how proud she is about her art. I just don't know why she couldn't feel the same for me, her only son. Maybe I'm just a her dissapointment.
I dropped out of highschool and left the family home when I was 16. I just couldn't work for my dad during the night AND go to highschool AND socialize. Something had to give. Unfortunately it was highschool and my parents didn't really care about that at all. They were just... fine with it. they supported my sister through college and she was fortunately able to graduate with a veterinary degree of sorts. she still lives with them now as she pays off her student debt, but I left and travelled and worked on music for over a decade so I admit that I was entirely out of the family picture for some time. But as I get older, not wanting to repeat the mistakes of my parents I fear that that is precisely what's been creeping up in my life.
five years ago I met the absolute most wonderful human being and I am so lucky to have my partner in my life. She and I are engaged now and set to be married. I hoped that the news would overwhelm my parents with excitement and joy. Maybe a facebook post about their son, share some family pictures or something. But they did nothing at all. I think they showed off pictures of the trip to Mexico that week instead.
I just don't really understand how I'm this unworthy of their love and unfortunately now I'm realizing that illusion that I am unworthy has infected my relationship with my fiance. I love her so much but when I can't fix everything in her life I feel like I am the failure and the guilt overhelms me so much and the guilt is such a strong motivator for me, and it usually motivates me into becoming the biggest doormat in the world. I've never worked harder for a relationship or invested this much energy. I feel she deserves it. But I don't advocate for myself. So I build up resentment. Like I clean the house constantly and work and help bail out of her bad spending habits and cover her rent without question and this and that. To be clear, she doesn't take advantage of me and that's not how I feel about it. But I do let this annoyance build up inside of me because I don't know how to communicate my feelings in a healthy way. I'm scared I'll lose the person if I speak up, or I'll be gaslit. Again, that's not my partner that gaslights. That's just generally how I feel I'll be treated if I open up with people. It all goes back to my childhood. It's affected every friendship and work relationship I've had since.
When I was 20-ish, 15 years years ago I did the classic, "seek the relationship that most comfortably fits into the patterns you experienced with your parents". And so I trapped myself in a horrific and extremely damaging relationship with a girl I'll call K. She has undiagnosed bipolaBPD, she would never seek help but self-medicate. She ended up in the hospital maybe four times for self-harming and this where she was considered to have these diseases by a few doctors on different occasions. Anway, it turned into a relationship of abuse and it wasn't exactly new territory for me. I was ashamed in that 8 year relationship. I wanted out so bad, but she would threaten to unalive everytime I tried to get away. Of course, some weeks would go by and i would get my hair pulled out of my scalp, a knife waving in the air in front of my face, spat in the face, kicked, punched, bit, a pot of freshly boiled ramen soup thrown in my face and eyes. What's worse is that I seeked police intervention on multiple occasions. Every single time the police visited, they talked me out of pressing charges, asking me " well if she doesn't have any place to go, then do you have a place you can stay at, or the shelter?". twice they talked me out of a restraining order, that legal proceedings would take forever. Adn de-escalting me from wanting to take measures to ensure my safety because she may end up on the street as a result. To this day, I absolutely wish I advocated for myself here and pushed for a restraining order. I'm so mad at myself for not doing so.
Unfortunately, fast forward a couple years into that relationship and one evening everything would finally hit the fan. I told her to never touch me again and I absolutely meant it. she had just yanked out the largest chunk of my hair to date, to the point where my scalp was bleeding and I could even see epidermal matter still attached to the folicle ends that were in her clenched fingers. My head bled a bit and I pushed her off of me. Telling her that I needed to leave, that I was walking to my secure jam space just a 10 minute walk away. It had a leather couch in a cold concrete basement, but hey at least I would be safe for the night and I could play my drums and try and blow off this anxiety and fear in a way that was safe albeit very noisy.
She hated that I wanted to leave and convinced herself I would never return. To be fair, that was the energy I had. I never wanted to see her face again and have her name on my lips after that night. So her tactic was simple, to threaten me with calling the cops and tell them that I violently pushed her. I called her bluff and said "go ahead and I will just tell them everything you've done - yet again. All I am doing is going to the space to sleep, I said, maybe play drums." She called the cops and told them she was pushed into a wall, and she felt very unsafe. Which yes, I did push her off me when she attacked me. In the past, I tried various tactics, to run away didn't work, she just always chased me down. Or sometimes I would just sit there while she was violent against me and I just "dissapeared" kind of like how I would when my dad used his coat hanger. This time, I just pushed her off of me, I was done with the relationship at that point and we both knew it. Anyway, she called the police, they arrived and when questioned I told them that I pushed her off of me in self-defence. I was drinking that night and it didn't help my case as I was arrested without question that evening and I was charged on the spot without question with domestic assault. It devasted me. I asked the police how this could happen lawfully. That she is an abuser and there is a history of this multiple times. That I've requested a restraining order. They explained that in quebec the laws are a little different and in the case domestic cases, if there is a male aggressor against a female, then the male is automatically charged to the fullest extent. I was absolutelyu devasted by this. I can't tell you the amount of fear and anger I felt in that jail cell that night.
I feel so incredibly betrayed by the justice system, keep in mind, this is law that from what I understand is only in Quebec, I was there for music at the time with an old friend whom I am no longer in contact with. I don't think the rest of the country operates under law in this way. Now I appreciate that they are vigilant about woman abuse victims, but the law shouldn't be this absurdly biased. It just doesnt feel just and fair to me. Covert abusers shouldn't be able to take advantage of the justice system in this way, but it happens.
It was an awful experience, I was homeless for a couple months afterward, not allowed to retrieve my belongings, so I lost all of my life "crap" that I had built up, years of hardwork and investment. I mention this because I realize later in life that I have intense collecting behaviour. maybe as a self-soothing behaviour. But I love building up collections of my hobby stuff as I have many and I feel they keep me regulated and it's a form of therapy for me. In any case, I lost everything when I left that whole situation. It sucks, although ultimately it's clearly best that I got out of that dreadful circumstance. I flew across the country to my hometown and to be closer to my family and old friends from highschool. It's quite a small town mind you.
Unfortunately, my classic tendency to hide and not advocate for myself created an opportunity for my abusive ex. A year following those events, despite me assuring her that I had to block her because I flew away to start a new life provinces away. That I wished her the best. That I even promised I would never tell a soul what she did to me. Not to mention that unfortunately we live in a society where nobody really has an ounce of sympathy for a male abuse victim. I had every intention to keep that promise, but she couldn't trust me ultimately. I think her logic was maybe to just beat her ex to "the punch". Kill or be killed or something like that. I don't live my life like that so I don't really know what her plan was. But she made a bunch of posts on various social media platforms for all of our mutual friends, music friends, coworkers etc. that the relationship was over and she was free. That she got out of a cycle of abuse and she was ready to start a new chapter of her life. She never used my name, just that she was glad she got away from her toxic and abusive ex once and for all.
It was exactly like that night a year prior, she threatened me with this outcome she could design for me, and I called her on her bluff by saying I was still going to block her and I can't control what she does with her life or how she conducts herself, but that I was out and to never contact me ever again. She made me regret that decision.
The posts she made that day got so many likes and support from so many of our mutual friends, even musician mates that were closer to me than her, and it absolutely destroyed me, not just internally but socially. I no longer make music anymore and it hurts to go outside into the world because it feels like everybody sees me as this monster. And still I don't have a voice to inform anyone otherwise - except my family and my fiance. I have no friends anymore. They all left my life with the belief that I did all of these horrible and awful things.
I just don't trust people anymore as a result and it's just caused me to become extremely bitter and depressed. I ruminate on the past, maybe in attempts to fix the past so I can move on. So I could do better, so I don't have to punish myself for my mistakes in the past. But it just reopens every emotional wound I have and they never get a chance to heal. That was maybe 7 years ago now and I'm still replaying these events in my head every single morning for about 1 - 2 hrs. Then I go completely numb for the majority of the rest of the day, shallow breathing, and the mildest sadness that mascarades as fatigue and disinterest.
There are some days where I seriously fear for the future and I just feel like every cruel soul will inherit this earth and that's the future, they built this world of suffering and they deserve to inherit it. Their toxic flag staked so deep into the earth in reclamation. The future isn't holding any seats for people like us. I'm so heartbroken and defeated. I feel like white-wolfing my fiance because she deserves better than this traumatized person that hides from the world. I feel like giving her my collection of collections so she can sell it all off and pay off her 10k of credit debt, then with this act of kindness I can go out not feeling like a guilt-ridden defeated loser. And leave on a high note.
When I'm alone, I get trapped in these ruminating cycles and it's the angriest I ever get. It's reached the point where I feel like I am actually reliving all this past trauma every morning and I can't do it anymore. I just feel like I am so at the end of whatever this ride was.
I don't have any friends anymore and everyone but my fiance thinks I am a monster and it's just unbearable.
I just don't even know. I am even afraid that someone will read this post and suss through all of this and make the connection. Then I'll get another new email or random throwaway account with an insta message that says "I told you you would never be able to get over me. You can move on, but you will never be able to erase the past. Never truly. You know where to find me."
It's haunting and it's poisonous. I just feel haunted and poisoned and I don't know if there is a snake oil potent enough or antitode true enough to get me back to the generous, lighthearted, energetic kid I once was.
To whoever was willing to read through all of this, thank you for hearing me out. I don't know what advice I am even asking for here. I'm hoping just speaking this out into the world in some way can alleviate this misery. I don't know.

I had my channel for around 6 months just posting random things when an idea hit me. I shot a couple of videos in that style, and started getting views, when the big one hit. 1.1 million views. It's a niche I can say only I'm shooting. I've seen a few others try and copy my style now and get views which is totally completely fine, but they use iphones, where I use an actual bodycamera. My last few posts in the same style on my personal channel have gotten absolutely nowhere, sometimes less than 200 views when I know it's extremely viral content. So I decided to niche down and start a new channel dedicated to my niche.
I post Bodycamera Footage in the style of Reno 911. 1.1 million saw my "Proposal" video, 60k saw another video of mine and thats when the views started slowly dropping to where they are now. I also posted small skits all the time with just me, and I realized I needed to niche down and start a new Bodycamera only channel.
Here's the major problem that I don't understand. Some of you will come on here and say, "Do better" "Not good content"... but I've posted at the exact same time on youtube with the same tags and get 50k views on youtube compared to 250 on tiktok. I've also had reaction channels steal my content, react to it on tiktok for 100k views and thousands of comments and my same video has less than a thousand views. So it's clearly viral, it's fun, catchy content, but my channel doesn't do the numbers that others do.
My next video, if it doesn't work I might end up quitting altogether (I won't but it's how I feel right now). I'm going to post it to my new niched down channel. I have a pretty famous known Actor who agreed to be in the video for me. He voice acts Thanos in the Marvel animated series, he's also been in Pirates of the Caribbean, as well as the Air Marshall in Anger Management. He loves the idea I pitched him and he's ready to go!
--The scene: "A sovereign citizen refuses to get out of her car when pulled over for no plates. After screaming and acting crazy she demands to see my supervisor. Isaac who's going to play my supervisor, walks over at 6 foot 5, asks the woman kindly to get out of her car. She refuses again, when he reaches in and lifts her out through the window. She's now 100% compliant and apologetic. That's where I'm ending the video." (Isaac wants to be in more too as a recurring character if this does well)
Now that you know the scene. It will be posted to my new niched down page which is here (that's the latest video I posted). A brief backstory. I post these videos, because I dealt with a false arrest in 2019. I'm a Navy veteran, truck driver who was arrested and jailed for 42 hours, the State trooper in New Mexico got qualified immunity, so I decided to take out my pain and suffering in a creative outlet. My Dad was a Police officer for 33 years which is why I know the lingo and can act like an Officer behind the camera.
Can anyone tell me when they would post that video? The hashtags? The SEO they would use? I obviously got lucky with the proposal video, but I'd like to get even with these reaction channels stealing my content and making money off of it... Thanks for your time and help if you choose to. It really means a lot.

Do you like Hades? I like Hades. Supergiant always seems to make fantastic games and it was no exception. The gameplay was fun, the story was enjoyable, the characters were either good or great, and while it took some massive liberties with the Gods (Demeter has... ice powers???) it's a fun take on them, very enjoyable.
It seems that Hades 2 came out in Early Access recently- I know this because my Twitter timeline has been chock full of Hades fans absolutely seething about Danmachi, and especially about Hestia.
Crazy stuff, right? And yet somehow my whole feed is full of "She's just an Anime girl!" and "The Hades design fits the character better!"
I don't actually want to focus too much on Hades here, since I do like it, so let's just address that second one first and say that's ridiculous and it's an ignorant or hypocritical statement.
Why? Well, mostly because the Hades design centralises entirely around the idea of her as the Guardian of the Sacred Flame. And yup, that's important, that's right there in her name, but is that more important than the idea of her as the Oldest and the Youngest? The idea of her as a Vestal Virgin? All the stories tied up in her?
I'll keep this very brief. Hestia is the first of the Titan's children, and when they were all (except Zeus) eaten, she was the last to be thrown back up- and thus she's heralded as both the first and last child, the oldest and the youngest.
This, as well as her role as patron of the city states, is why all sacrifices first included a sacrifice to Hestia. Before you give to Zeus, first you give the Hestia. Before you give to Demeter, first you give to Hestia. etc.
Similarly, she's (by her own choice) a Vestal Virgin. Hestia isn't a particularly popular Goddess, not a lot of stories use her at all, but aside from story about her being the Oldest and Youngest, there's two big stories that exist in the public consciousness and both of them are about how people want to have sex with her.
She's a beautiful young woman, a very attractive Goddess, and she was pursued by both Apollo and Neptune for her hand in marriage. Instead, she rejected both of them and swore a great oath to Zeus that she would remain a virgin for all time instead. That's the first big story, the second one is about the time she went to a party and after going to sleep for the night Priapus tried to rape her, the baying of a Donkey awoke her, whereupon the other Gods all came to her defense and beat the shit out of him.
So, she's the Guardian of the Sacred Fire. She's a Vestal Virgin. She's the Oldest and the Youngest. She's a beautiful and attractive woman who readily rejects the advances of men... And how does Hades Hestia fit into those? Well it doesn't at all. She's just an old lady with a bowl of embers on her head. There's some nice design details and a few little niche references, but by and large we've got none of Hestia's myths covered except that she's associated with fire.
And meanwhile, Danmachi handles every one of those.
Hestia's design shows us the story of her as the Oldest and the Youngest, having a young looking body that's simultaneously completely mature.
Apollo tried to make advances on her back during their time in Heaven. And we've got oblique references to attempts at rape and assault throughout his story (albeit not directed at her). Her role as a Vestal Virgin is incredibly vital to the plot, both in why Freya doesn't attack her and how she counters Freya later. She's part of the "No Sex Club" with Artemis and Athena. Her role as the patron of the Home is why she's made fun of for being a NEET, and gets her in trouble when she first comes to the lower world.
Every part of Hestia's mythos is presented. It's an absolutely faithful and fantastic interpretation of Hestia.
And it makes me sad to see so many people making these ridiculous threads about "Look at these Danmachi designs, they're just normal characters! The Hades ones are way more Godly!" like... yeah? The characters in Danmachi don't have vines coming off them or wheat in their hair, the whole point of the setting is that they're living normal lives without their powers among mortals.
But the story is still incredibly faithful to the origins and stories of those Gods and Goddesses-
Zeus is a fickle and selfish God, the greatest of all whose Familia delved further than anyone else could, a great and kind man who can raise a child with love and care... and a selfish, greedy bastard who would abandon that child without much more than a thought.
Freya's story is all about her quest to find Odr, how she's loved and cherished but suffering along the way in her own private torment. The visuals about her crying in a field of flowers was practically the genesis of what's to be the entire upcoming anime Season.
Hephaestus is an incredible creator, but is only truly comfortable in her workshop and isn't great at dealing with people. The other Gods like her well enough but mock her because of her ugly scar, and she carries a deep bitterness because when Aphrodite cheated on her when they were married.
Cassandra has a curse (tied to Apollo) that means her prophesies are never believed. Similarly both Apollo's heroic and villainous nature are shown, especially with him being corrupted by life in the city.
Hell, who even knows anything at all about a God like Miach? Well Danmachi he was "hit over the head" with debt by Dian Celch (and his follower Airmid).
And, almost to a man, the Gods in Danmachi are shown with the kind of capricious, self-centered nature that's perfectly true to old myths. Their status as divinities means they have a morality that's very different to humans, and they have their own agenda that only mostly aligns with what the mortals may want, or want to do.
Hermes is one of Bell's most trusted allies and he's betrayed him about as often as he's helped him. Freya has helped Bell almost as much as Hestia, but she's also thrown him into almost certain death to try prove something to herself. Thanatos and Erebus both love humans, but they're perfectly happy to kill them by the score to prove their own point to themselves etc etc etc.
In short: Danmachi is a setting that takes enormous pains to present the Gods and Goddesses with a kind of faithfulness that should be celebrated, and it's a real shame to see people making these big lists that essentially amount to "Look, Dionysus in Hades has vines and wine all around him and in Danmachi he's just a God living in a city (with schemes and plans underpinning his festive nature)." They're absolutely missing the point.
And I'll say again, I'm not here saying Hades is bad, or that the people who like Hades are bad. If you like the Hades interpretations more, that's fine, more power to you.
But it's absolutely ridiculous to hold up Danmachi and proclaim it as just using the Gods as window dressing. And especially so when it's often-times far more faithful.

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I was looking through the Namus website and I came across a John Doe found on February 17, 2004 in Dulzura, San Diego county, California.
He is believed to be 30 years old and to be at the location he was found for about a yea. He has not been identified for 20 years now, despite have some items with him that could help find who he was.
I became interested in his case because of a picture found with him. It is a the picture of a woman who looks exactly like me 20 years ago, everything matches, my age, clothes, even the street looks familiar. I don't know if I knew him. There were a lot of people and friends in my life when I was 23.
In the early 2000's I lived in Bakersfield, California, and traveled a lot to San Fernando Valley, California, both are close to Castaic, California. In his personal belongings there is the following information a partial address in Castaic, a phone number with out an area code, a partial address in Mexico, and a last name.
Please take a look at his Namus page to see if you can recognize anything. His Namus ID is #UP55722.
https://www.namus.gov/UnidentifiedPersons/Case#/55722/details

I am not The OOP, OOP is u/lolfuckno.
This post was originally posted to weddingshaming.
There was already a BoRU post by u/autochthonouschimera, which didn't include the last update yet.
TRIGGER WARNING: cheating, child neglect, extreme entitledness, talk of abortion
MOOD SPOILERS: infuriating, confusing, frustrating
The new update at the bottom of this post has been marked with --- ---
Original story was posted on December 7, 2021
Okay, so this girl I know from high school is getting married. We're both 22, for reference. In our senior year of high school she got pregnant, with baby daddy A who will be referred to as Adam. Her super conservative parents kicked her out and she ended up moving in with a friend's family. She barely graduated high school. The only reason she did were because of the generosity and support of our teachers and students who volunteered to help her, which is how we met. We were in the same law class in the morning and she had the worst morning sickness that really affected her ability to be in class. So, I took extra notes for her, tutored her, and brought her her stuff if she hadn't come back by the bell. I wasn't the only one who did stuff like this for her and I know she really appreciates all the assistance we gave her. She had the baby a month after we graduated.
She'd signed up for a 911 dispatcher course for after high school because where we live it's a good steady job, with opportunity for certificates and promotions. But she didn't realize how intensive the course would be and had to drop out. She started working at a grocery store bakery, just until she had a better plan. Adam started an apprenticeship while working part time at a hockey rink, and proposed to her literally the day of her eighteenth birthday, and brought up marriage because "it's the right thing to do" (I don't really agree with that but this isn't about me) and she was always refusing.
She started cheating on him after a while (we're all 19 now), and eventually leaves him for another guy because... She's pregnant again and it is far more likely that this guy, baby daddy B who will be referred to as Brad, is the father of the child. Neither of them can afford lawyers so getting any kind of custody agreement is a mess, and then their parents got involved and they did 50/50 split (still not made official). She has the baby, that does turn out to be Brad's, and everything is okay for about nine months, when she finds out Brad has been cheating on her with his TA. Brad decides to pay child support but doesn't really want contact with the kid, only around holidays and one weekend a month for his parents' sake.
She moves back in with her parents (we're all 20 now) who only accept her back because there's grandchildren around. On the plus side, (when she's 21) she gets to take that year long dispatcher course, and passes with flying colours!
After working as a dispatcher for a year (we're all 22 now) she meets a police officer we'll call Chad, who's 26 and married... And Adam's second (?) cousin (I can't remember how they're related, just that Adam and Chad are related somewhat distantly). She has an affair with him (infidelity is super common among cops apparently). She gets knocked up, his wife divorces him, Chad proposes because "it's the right thing to do", she accepts, and her parents kick her out again for being a [insert expletive here], she moves in with Chad with her two kids. They've started planning the wedding, which... Given the background is something akin to a dumpster fire. Adam is LIVID. He was desperately in love with this girl and hasn't really recovered from what she did to him, and while she rejected his proposals years ago, she's accepted one FROM HIS COUSIN WHO PROPSED FOR THE SAME REASON HE DID.
Adam has basically made a call for loyalty in the family, dividing everyone one who should go, who should give money, etc plus they're having trouble planning anything because of COVID. Her parents have outright said that they're not going, along with half of her family, and her younger sister has been going around and sabotaging what plans they can make.
She has asked me to be a bridesmaid, I said that I couldn't because I live in a different province now, but the truth is, I do not want to be wrapped up in that clusterfuck in any way . I'm just watching the arguments and events unfold on social media because this is quite honestly the most entertaining thing I've seen all year. It's weird to me that she even asked because we're not friends, we never have been. We were friendly strangers in high school, I just helped her out for one class because she needed help and I could give it to her. I was just being nice. But based on how she turned out I'm just sad for her. Three kids in four years, and she's alienated so much of her friends and family because if her actions, and I'm torn between feeling sorry for her and putting my head in my hands.
EDIT 1:
First off, all of your comments are hilarious. Second, I'm going to answer some of the common questions.
We're from a city with over 400,000 thousand people, she just comes from the neighbourhood that is made of either bible thumpers or white trash, with no in between. But the high school we went to was in a completely different neighbourhood than that.
Our school had a pretty good sex Ed course, and they gave out free condoms and had resources to help girls get birth control, and they had programs in place for if students ever got pregnant/were going to be teen parents (they also had one of those classes with the dolls for girls who were high risk at teen pregnancy but she wasn't high risk so she wasn't in that class) I don't if BC just didn't work for her, or if she never tried it.
She started alienating her friends after the affair with Chad came out, because people weren't exactly jumping for joy that she'd broken up a marriage (Chad and his ex didn't have any kids, thankfully, so there were less obstacles). When people weren't immediately ecstatic for her she started getting very snippy, rude, and was "calling the bitches out" on social media for not supporting her new relationship or pregnancy. (Tbh I'm really worried about her health because having this many babies so close together is just not good for her health, mental or physical.) People are also worried that Chad will cheat on her "if he'll cheat with you, he'll cheat on you" and think she should avoid marrying him so that she can just leave him if it happens.
I'll give you updates as they come out, but so far it's just a lot of yelling on social media (mostly from her), some relatives slut shaming her, and people who are just really worried about her because, as funny as this is, this doesn't seem like healthy behaviour.
EDIT 2:
First off, I realized I never gave this girl a name. For the sake of clarity we'll call her Beth. I realize that I didn't mention this before, but all of these are fake names.
Second, to everyone commenting that Chad is at fault for his marriage breaking up, believe me I'm well aware of that. It is his ex wife and her family/friends who solely blame Beth. Chad is also older than her and has more life experience, so I do believe that he could potentially be taking advantage of her naivete. However, she is also an adult who is capable of making her own decisions and has chosen to make poor ones in the past.
Third, people who are upset that I'm posting this story here, claiming I'm humiliating her. She has been posting about this mess on every social media platform she has since they got engaged in July. She put this out there long before I did except she did so in front of friends, family, employers, and coworkers, as well as internet randos.
Fourth, despite getting engaged in July and attempting to start planning then, I was only asked to be a bridesmaid three days ago. I knew that there was a mess going on but I didn't really pay attention to it until she asked me to be a bridesmaid. I tried to ask what was going on, I said that she should talk to someone, but when she completely brushed me off I checked her FB and Instagram and found out about all of... This.
Fifth, I realized that I didn't really talk about how disastrous the wedding planning has been going, see here you go:

• they've had to rebook three times because venues and vendors kept cancelling when infection numbers got worse even thought their wedding was months away
• Beth has been flipping between having the wedding while she's pregnant saying she's proud of her bump, and wanting to wait until they're born because she feels fat, which is unfortunate because she's been breaking down due her insecurity on a public platform
• Beth is currently seven months pregnant
• Beth's great aunt was going to give her her wedding dress to wear (after she gives birth) but Beth's mom freaked and stole the dress from said aunt before Beth could get it and is now keeping it, the great aunt says she's too old to get in a fight and has shrugged it off
• Chad's immediate family is paying for the wedding and has been cut off by the rest of their extended family for 'choosing Chad'
• Beth's wedding colours are pink and green, which is usually a nice combo but the specific shades don't go great together, they're her and Chad's favourite colours, which is fine but she literally made a video talking about these colours for 14 minutes on her insta and both of her kids are just full on bawling in the background and she's ignoring them and she's gotten some flack for that
• Adam is finally settled into his trade and has now hired a lawyer and is trying to get primary custody and not allow his daughter to go to the wedding
• she's planning a zoom baby showebachelorette party and has sent out a registry and she's asking for crazy expensive things
• she's also set up a go fund me to help pay for a honeymoon and is making a lot of posts about how no one loves her cause the fund only has $1267 of the $20k she wanted

I'll update when I can but I'm still in school and while I do want to help her, she's refused help offered in the past and there's only so much of this I can take mentally right now.
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UPDATE:
Hey everyone, so some stuff has gone down, and it doesn't look like it's over yet. Sorry, I didn't update sooner, but Rona came back with a vengeance and totally messed up plans with uni and family. Anyway, onto the update.
From the last update - 16th - Lots of ranting and chaotic wedding planning on social media, she found a dress and has decided she will get married while pregnant, they found a local wedding venue that is very lovely, but I'm shocked she's still trying to book stuff with all of their previous venue cancellations.
December 16th - Her little sister unblocked her to call her a s*ut and tell her that all her wedding plans were stupid. This resulted in a petty and entertaining facebook war until the little sis blocked her again on the 17th.
December 18th - Beth went nuts on social media because Adam had "kidnapped" their daughter, what really happened is that because courts are moving at a snail's pace due to COVID and Adam had reason to believe that their daughter was not safe living with Beth he decided to just... Not give her back. They don't have a custody agreement, and when Beth tried to call the cops they couldn't do anything because he was kinda right. There were dozens of videos on her various social media accounts of her ignoring their daughter, yelling at her daughter for crying or doing other things that toddlers do, it turns out that everything she needed was bought by Adam, food, diapers, clothes, toys, daycare (while it was open) etc. on top of the unofficial child support he was paying every month (which turned out to be $500 a month, a number I find ridiculous because Adam was already paying for literally everything) because she refused to buy anything for her daughter and insisted it was Adam's responsibility. Additionally, after the immediate post-birth appointments, Beth never took baby A to a doctor's appointment, she always deferred that to Adam. Baby A's pediatrician has NEVER met Beth. Beth even tried to get Chad to push back or intimidate him or something, but the local police where we live are under one hell of a microscope after a bunch of dirty cops got busted a couple of years ago. Basically, the cops, and the social worker they ended up calling, ended up saying there was nothing she could do until they get to court. The social worker tried to get her to go to therapy and parenting classes, but Beth refused and went on a fifteen paragraph long rant on Facebook about how she doesn't need parenting classes or therapy (she really, really does though) and called the social worker some choice words.
December 19-24 - Just a bunch of ranting on social media, calling everyone who doesn't enable or justify her behaviour cuss words, slurs, and a whole bunch of other horribly creative things. Also, both she and Chad are under investigation at work now, but she has no idea why. I'm gonna take this time to remind everyone that 99% of this info is coming from her public social media pages where her coworkers are friends and place of employment is listed.
December 25 - I am officially embarrassed to know this woman. I didn't go on her FB page until the evening cause I didn't want to deal with drama, first thing in the morning, on Xmas. In the morning she put on a very beautiful blue maternity dress, got Chad in his police blues, and baby B in a purple romper, and then live-streamed her and her family going to the courthouse to get married on Christmas day. (According to her Twitter, part of this was because their newest venue cancelled on them after COVID numbers spiked) Overall, a pretty tacky thing in my opinion because she stated plain as day, several times, that she intended her wedding anniversary to eclipse Christmas for her children because it's just "so much more special, you know?" (I am so glad that Baby B's grandparents are filing for guardianship) But here's the thing... The courthouse isn't open. Because of COVID for one thing, but also because it's Xmas and Canada has a predominantly Christian history. She proceeded to have a full meltdown, and when Baby B cried because, y'know, the kid's mom was screaming up a storm and scaring her, Beth called her a c*nt. Yup. So done with this bitch.
December 28 - I ran into her at a vaccine clinic cause we were both getting our booster shots. She didn't recognize me at first but one of my old bosses (cause I used to work at the hospital the vaccine clinic was in) called my name and said hi, so she came up to me after my old boss had left. We talked a bit while we sat down for the mandatory waiting period after getting the shot. She asked how I was but didn't even wait for me to respond before she started ranting and complaining about her life. I was just going to sit there until the time was up and then just politely make my exit, but when she started talking shit about her kids something inside me snapped. I just said "Do you even like your kids? Do you like being a mom?" She got pretty quiet for a second and then said "no". Idk, her voice and demeanour completely changed and we just sat in silence until our time was up. I said goodbye but it was really awkward.
December 31st (today) - I just looked at her feed and, this is such a shocking what-the-actual-f*** moment. She's thinking about giving up her kids. She went on about how recently she was asked if she liked her kids or being a mom, and how she realized that she didn't. She hates her children and blames them for ruining her life, and how she doesn't want to be a mom. I mean, nothing is official yet, but what the hell?!
I'll update as stuff happens now that I have the time, but this whole thing has been a big giant mess. Also, sorry for any formatting or grammatical errors, I'm not used to using Reddit on my PC.
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UPDATE
Okay, so, some stuff has happened and most of it's good? Also, the TL:DR for this update will be at the bottom
Jan 4th - Beth (and Chad) stopped posting on all social media. I was actually a little worried she died, I mean this woman posts everything short of her trips to the bathroom on IG.
Oddly enough, this got people messaging or interacting with her social media pages because she was usually the one to start contact, and that contact was usually yelling. No one heard from them and some people started to be like "should we call the cops for a wellness check?" Until Chad posted a status saying that they're fine but are "busy, please stop trying to contact us right now". Everyone listened but it was weird.
Jan 11 - I got a notification that Beth and Chad are active on social media again, but I didn't feel like drama so I didn't check out any of their posts.
Jan 12 (today) - she messaged me on FB asking me to be her MOH. She also kept going on about the resort in Cancun that she and Chad were looking to have their wedding at... This coming February. Omnicrom is really bad where we are, so no one should be travelling anywhere. I've actually had to delay my trip back to the province where I go to university. No one should be travelling anywhere.
Beth also found out that Chad was cheating on her with one of her co-workers and called the woman a "homewrecker" on FB tagged her, and posted the texts she found on Chad's phone. But Chad is the "love of her life" so she's forgiven him, but not the other woman. Which I find very hypocritical, considering how she and Chad got together.
She also sent pics of possible bridesmaid dresses and they are the most hideous dresses I've ever seen. I know that some brides do that thing where they want to look a million times better by comparison but this was just ridiculous. One of them looked like a partially deflated balloon with feathers strapped to it. She also openly admitted that she expected everyone attending to pay 3k, 2k would go towards that guest's stay at the resort and 1k would go to her and Chad and they will expected wedding gifts, so that they could get their room for free. Apparently, she talked to someone at the resort and if she got enough people to book their rooms she and Chad would get theirs for free. She also wanted the money to be given to her instead of directly to the hotel so that people wouldn't realize that she was taking 1k of their money. Beth sent me a pic of the wedding dress she wanted, and it's definitely a clubbing dress. If that's what she wants that's fine (and for the record I do think she would look great in it, Beth's (current) dream wedding dress ) but she wants all the guests to be dressed black tie. And she's already sent a list of unreasonable requests. Such as;

• all women must wear heels (for a wedding in the beach???)
• no one is allowed to have a baby or be pregnant (really?)
• girls must have longer than shoulder length hair, boys must have very short hair, only and inch or two long
• no one is allowed to be skinnier than her
• she will be providing diets for everyone attending based on how she wants us to look
• she and Chad must get bachelor and bachelorette parties both in Canada and in Mexico that need to be "fit for a king and queen" and both must be paid for but anyone but the bride and groom "cause that's just tacky"
• no unnatural hair
• no tattoos (you have five tattoos, Beth, and in the dress you want all will be on full display)
• no one is allowed to talk to her directly, they must speak through the MOH and BM

Honestly there's a lot more but I didn't feel like typing all that out. She's posted the list on FB and IG and people are already calling her a bridezilla.
I was also just kinda weirded out because aside from the previous convo at the hospital and when she originally asked me to be a bridesmaid, we haven't spoken since high school. So I respectfully declined, stating that the virus and school were my top concerns right now. Then, I decided to check her socials to see if she'd posted anything. She had and everything was basically how it was before the hiatus... Except her kids are nowhere to be found. No "look at my cute baby" pics are kids crying in the background of her videos. Nothing. Though, based on her new pics of herself, she's given birth to baby C. I mean, she's definitely still recovering, but she also definitely had a baby and that baby is not on any of her socials, so when she responded to my decline with an attempt at guilting me to be her MOH, I asked her where her kids were. This was her response.
"Oh, I left them at the side of the road in our way home from the hospital those moochers could walk home lol"
I was like, please tell me you're not being serious (especially cause it looks like she had the baby days ago). And she replied "I was just joking you shouldn't be so serious all the time". Honey, you made a joke about child abandonment/abuse, you're not being serious enough. And then I finally got the update on the kids.

• Baby A is still with Adam, Beth signed away her rights
• Baby B and Baby C have been given to a mutual cousin of Adam and Chad who is infertile (tbh I didn't need that last tidbit of info or the three paragraph long rant about how God hates infertile women, I didn't even read all of it, I couldn't, and I didn't think that Beth could be so cruel to even think those things). I checked out the FB page of Baby B's grandparents and they're happy with their grandchild's new parents, it looks like the cousin and her husband and welcoming them to the family as another set of grandparents and will let them have access to B. So yay!
• One thing I do need to stress though is that because of COVID the courts in our areas are either moving at a snail's pace or closed, so none of this is "official" but Beth (and Chad) has signed paperwork and all that needs to happen now is presenting that to a judge.

And when I rejoined our convo she said the doc she had for baby C gave her brith control, and she was surprised cause after her first pregnancy she asked her doctor for it but he refused to give her any. She mentioned that her old doctor was also her mom's and sister's doctor, she ended up asking the doc who delivered baby C to be her new doctor, so I hope that works out.
After learning all this my convo with Beth started to go down hill...
Beth: wait, did you actually think I would just leave my kids at the side of the road! I just didn't want to be a mom, but I wasn't a bad one
Me: Beth, I think that you've been through a lot of trauma in the past few years, and that it's gotten to you mentally and that you should speak to a professional.
(Of course, Beth has been a bad mom, but she does need mental health help and I wasn't going to convince her to get it, or to not tell at me, if I said that )
Beth: what? You think I'm crazy?!
Me: no. I think that getting kicked out as a teen because of a pregnancy and having your family actively reject you and try to sabotage you must have been very painful. Plus, pregnancy puts a lot of mental stress on women and you've had three in such a short time span, I just want you to take care of yourself and get what you want in life, and I think that will start with you taking care of your mental health.
Beth: what I want... IS FOR YOU TO GO STRAIGHT TO HELL! Beth then calls me every cuss word, expletive, and derogatory word she can think of one of the words she called me was a derogatory word about people from my ethnicity and my blood is boiling that she thought it was okay to say that to me.
So, I'm now on her hit list. She's been blowing up my social media all day, on her last FB post where she called me a slur she said that she still expects a good wedding gift from me. Yeah, no. So I've blocked her on everything, and I've decided to completely cut off contact. This will be my last update.
TL:DR - Beth went on a social media blackout for a bit, had baby C. Gave up all her kids, baby A is still with Adam, Baby B and Baby C are with a mutual cousin of Adam and Chad and baby B's grandparents have access. Chad cheated on her and she forgave him, but she probably shouldn't have. She's decided to have her wedding in a little over a month in Cancun and is expecting unreasonable things of everyone already. She asked me to be MOH I respectfully declined. I also suggested that she talk to a mental health professional because she's been through a lot in the last few years and she cussed me out, she also called me a derogatory name directed at people of my ethnicity and that was the final nail in the coffin. I'm now on her hit list. But her kids are safe and I have no interest in going to wedding so I'm cutting contact completely and have already blocked her on all my socials. I'm refusing to be involved with her anymore and will not be updating on the situation.
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--- EDIT - NEW UPDATE --- - JANUARY 25, 2023 - TL:DR AT THE BOTTOM
Hi, everyone, I didn't think I would be making another update, but here I am. I don't know if anyone will even care but whatever. I saw a YouTuber, Charlotte Dobre, do an entire video about this post on Facebook (which was funny, she did it well), [editor's note: here's the video in question and also: check out Charlotte Dobre's subreddit !] and got so nervous that Beth was gonna see it. Turned out, she's seen it and does not give a single damn, because as I pointed out, the majority of the info in this post came from her public social media. She also doesn't know who posted it (more on that in the update). I am still no contact with Beth and have no plans to change that anytime soon, but we have mutual friends who have told and shown me what's happened.
First things first, she and Chad did get married, but they eloped. According to all sources they are completely and utterly miserable though. Chad has proven to be and overall lazy and unfaithful husband, and Beth has really gotten into feminism (with a focus on reproductive issues) after she started using birth control, and Roe v Wade getting overturned (even though we're in Canada) really caused tension in their marriage. As it turns out, Chad thinks that abortion is murder and God created women for the purpose of making babies.
Beth tried to argue that not all women want or should be mothers using herself as an example, and then Chad went ahead and used her as an example of why women should be forced to have kids, because in the end she gave kids to an infertile couple. She didn't take that well and said that her entire life and future was ripped away from her and destroyed the second she got pregnant with baby A. Adam was never slut shamed or demeaned like she was, both at home and at school (which is a fair point, myself and many others were helpful and supportive but there were a lot of people who judged the hell out of her and said really nasty stuff) and that if she hadn't gotten pregnant she would've gone to college or university because she lost the general and financial support of her family with that positive pregnancy test. Chad has made a Tinder account. Beth was informed but it doesn't seem like she gave a damn.
So basically you could cut the tension with a knife.
And with her family, her sister came out as gay and cut off/has been cut off from their parents. But she's got a partial scholarship so she's doing okay. She and Beth are NOT on good terms but have met up and acknowledged that their parents messed them up by being religious nuts and their parents encouraged them to be competitive with each other and sabotage each other. Apparently their dad's motto is "competition brings out the best in everyone" (ugh). But they've talked and that's good enough for now.
Neither Beth nor Chad have custody or visitation of their children, which Chad is starting to regret because he's suddenly getting more and more into the church and religion. Chad talked to Beth about getting baby C back but Beth shut that down hard and warned the cousin who adopted baby C (officially and legally btw).
Beth started going to therapy after she and Chad got married, which makes me very happy and excited for her.
There was a rumour going around that Chad has a mistress and it took me a while to confirm, but it's true. He's cheating on her with a paramedic and she knows. Beth is fully aware. Idk if she plans to do anything about it or just continue to ignore it, but I hope she leaves his ass. I'm still not gonna talk to her, she crossed so many lines, but she's grown and improved a lot and her life would be a lot better without that sac of scum in her life.
Now, I have given a few details in my post that should've revealed my identity to her, namely her asking me to be her MOH. I have found out that she actually asked around 15 girls (including myself) to be her MOH, without telling any of us about the others because she was trying to get money from all of us and because her mental health has just been very bad and she needed help. And of those 15, 8 have been going to school out of province and of those eight we all had basically the same classes in high school. And apparently doesn't remember our discussion at the vaccination clinic and had major blow up with everyone she asked to be MOH. So she knows it's one of 8 people and reportedly has no interest in trying to narrow that number down. (Chad did the same thing with his groomsmen, but idk any of the numbers)
TL:DR Beth and Chad got married (eloped), are miserable, have zero custody or visitation with any of their children, Chad's cheating and Beth doesn't appear to care, Chad is super sexist, Beth is a feminist now, Beth's sister is gay and they've talked but not reconciled, Beth asked too many girls to be MOH for money and doesn't know the ID of who made this post.
Dear "Beth", if this post gets forwarded to you or somehow graces your phone screen, leave Chad. He's trash and you'll be much better without him in your life. And though I'm not willing to talk to you again because of your words and actions, I do wish for you to have a wonderful and happy life.
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I'm not the OOP!

As the title says, I am at my wits end. I have two puggles, more so hound than pug, they are 3 and 2. The 2 year old was just recently spayed if that is worth mentioning. She is the bane of my existence and the focus of this post.
I got the dogs with my ex-husband and we were all living in a big house with a big yard in Mexico. The littlelist one spent most of her life there, and then at my ex brother-in-law's place with three other dogs until I could take them back after we separated. (I don't really know what the dynamics were at his place). In Mexico, they basically ran wild in the yard, and were constantly barking at dogs on the other side of the fence and chasing birds and hunting opposums and rats. She has an intense prey drive that is for sure.
Now we live in a small apartment in a city. Since I got her back she has been WILDLY reactive on leash. I finally figured out some tricks to calm her down, and get her to not react to dogs when we have warning. They both have a bunch of energy and I take them to the park to run for at least an hour, usually more almost every day. My other puggle is perfect and not reactive.
It's been about 4 months since I've gotten them back and she's no longer reactive to dogs when I can spot them, even though it requires me to be on high alert on all of our walks but when we are surprised by another dog that is another story. This includes, encounters with other dogs when we come out of the elevator at our building, or when a dog comes across the corner, which is what happened earlier today. She literally tries to attack the other dog and it is intense. Luckily she is fairly small so I can hold her, but it looks like she goes insane. Not only does it cause a major scene and it's alarming for everyone involved, including passer-bys and other dogs, but she accidentally bit me today as I was trying to physically hold her.
I've thought of rehoming them, taking care of two dogs as a single woman trying to get my life together is already exhausting. But I don't want to just yet. The older of the two is also perfect and if she goes, he would have to go, too which I don't want. (They are siblings)
Are there any meds that can be prescribed? Should I give up and rehome her to a place with less dogs, more land? I can't figure out a training technique to deal with the surprise element. Should she be wearing a bark collar? Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am on my own dealing with this.
I would love to go back to Mexico, specifically CDMX but there are tons of dogs and I imagine our surprise encounters will only increase.

Disclaimer:

Despite how the title and intro may look, I am not here to dunk on feminism. If you came looking for a post that said, "Feminist Soy! Am i rite?" Sorry, got to disappoint. Conversely, this isn't a sermon about why you should convert. Believe whatever you want to believe bro. Also, Not a Christian, but I do like Wendigoon talking about it. Finally, Mods plz don't nuke my post this isn't about religion but about the mythology around the figure.

Why Post This Here:

Lilith has been involved in literary discourse for a while as well as being seen as a Feminist Icon in literature. This post is meant to debunk these claims and misreading of the Abrahamic Myths.

Intro:

This really isn't a specific work of fiction, but rather, a general fictional trope I guess., Ever since the release of Hazbin Hotel, discussion has increased on Lilith being a sympathetic/feminist icon, and this is the most laughable idea to me as a guy who is currently studying Christian Mythology for a project. Today, I am going to debunk this claim of Lilith being sympathetic or any sort of feminist girlboss or even being anyway relevant to the Abrahamic Mythos. I'll try source all my arguments, so it doesn't look like I am talk out of my ass.

In The Bible:

Ah, the Bible. It is amazing how such a small book can cause so much violence, but we are not here for a religious debate (well not really). We are here to discuss Lilith. For context, I am going to be used the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) & English Standard Version (ESV). This is because NSRV and ESV and considered the most popular when it comes to the Bible Versions.
Let's start with NRSV, and Lilith shows up...once? Hell, she doesn't even show up. She's just mentioned.

Isaiah 34:14: "Wildcats shall meet with hyenas, goat-demons shall call to each other; there too Lilith shall repose,"

You can read the full chapter here, but the full chapter really doesn't change much. From what I could gleam (admittedly I ain't a theologian so I could be missing stuff), the dude in this chapter is talking about God's Judgment and is more focused on the natural disasters that would happen. Lilith isn't even really that important. She seems to be at best a higher demon with some power, but this same chapter says an undead apocalypse will happen. She is a footnote at best.
Okay what about ESV? It is even worse there. She doesn't even show up.

Isaiah 34:14: "And wild animals shall meet with hyenas; the wild goat shall cry to his fellow; indeed, there the night bird settles and finds for herself a resting place" (Source)

Okay, but I am clearly cherry-picking though right? What about the other versions? Well, it get even more nebulous. In certain version, it isn't even Lilith but an unnamed night-demon (Source). In others, it isn't even a demon but just a creature of the night/ animals of the night (Source). Hell one of them there are no demons instead an unnamed ogress (Source).
You'd think that Lilith, being the first woman and rebelling against Big G himself, should get more than one very sketchy mention. I mean Eve the mother of humanity is mentioned between 2,000 -2,500 times (Source), Mary the mother of Jesus Motherfucking Christ himself gets around 40 times (Source), hell Queen Sheba, whose existence I only know because a sword in KCD is name after her, is mentioned nearly 70 times (Source)(obviously this varies on which version you take as some books are just removed but the point stands). You mean to tell me a fucking side character is mentioned more than literally Female Satan. Funnily enough, Satan is only mention like 30 times in the Bible (Source).
Okay, so already the foundations of Lilith are shaky, but what do the other Abrahamic Religions say?

In The Quran/The Tanakh (IMPORTANT):

The Quran. She never shows up. Weird since both Eve and Mary get mentioned.
Okay, but what about The Tanakh? (For those who don't know the Tanakh is the "Hebrew Bible". A lot of people say that's the Torah, but the Torah is just the compilation of the first five books of the Tanakh.) Well, yes.

Otzar Midrashim, The Aleph Bet of ben Sira, The Alphabet of ben Sira, (alternative version) 34 - He said to him, "The angels appointed for healing: Sanoy, Sansanoy, Semangalof. When the Holy Blessed One created the first Adam alone, They said, (Genesis 2:18) 'It is not good for this Adam to be alone.' They created for him a wife out of the Earth like he had been, and called her Lilith. Immediately they began to challenge each other. She said, 'I will not lie below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while I am to be the superior one…

So case closed - STOP. I ain't done cooking yet. See, I got to apologize a bit to you reader. I kind of lied, but to understand how I lied. You got to understand the Jewish Faith first, specifically their holy texts.
Okay, all Holy Jewish Texts fall under Sifrei Kodesh (aka Holy Books). . Within the Siferi Kodesh, there are two main categories texts fall into Tankah and Rabbinic. The Tankah is The Hebrew Bible. It is the considered the canonical collection of Hebrew scriptures and is comprisied of the Torah, the Nevi'im, and the Ketuvim. (Source and Source). Meanwhile, the Rabbinic is Jewish Rabbis studying and interpreting the Tankah (Source, Source, Source). The Alphabet of Ben Sira is squarely in the Rabbinic.
Most of you have already seen a problem, but for those of who didn't, let me spell it out. When you are quoting this passage, you are not quoting from the Tankah. You are quoting a Rabbi's interpretation of the Tankah. This would be equivalent to me using My Immortal to critique Harry Potter (No offense to any Jewish Rabbis. This comparison is meant to be extreme).
Ah, but ain't done yet reader, I have saved the biggest bombshell for last.
The Alphabet of Ben Sira is a shitpost. It a satire. It isn't real.
The reasoning is several. This reddit comment sums it up. And This. Also This
From The Jewish Virtual Library:

There is no reason to doubt the unity of the work as a whole, despite the fragmentary character of the different versions. All the versions share a special, satirical, and even heretical, character, and this indicates that they all were written by a single hand. They seem to reflect varying degrees of censorship on the part of editors and copyists. The complete work contains four parts. The first part is the biography of Ben Sira from his conception until the age of one year. This story, omitted in many editions, explains how Jeremiah, the prophet, was simultaneously Ben Sira's father (the numerical value of Ben Sira's name equals that of Jeremiah), and grandfather. Ben Sira's mother was Jeremiah's daughter. The old prophet was forced to an act of onanism by wicked men, and his daughter conceived from his emissions when she came to bathe. The form of this story is based on a biblical verse that tells the glories and wonders of God's deeds; thus the story satirizes not only Jeremiah, but God's deeds as well.
The second part is more sophisticated in form. It tells how Ben Sira, now one year old, meets with his teacher, who tries to teach him the alphabet. Instead of repeating each letter of the alphabet after his teacher, Ben Sira responds with an epigram beginning with that letter. The epigrams lead the teacher to tell the story of his life. It may be assumed that the original structure of this part was 22 + 12 paragraphs, each containing a letter, an epigram, and a part of the story.
The third part is the longest and contains most of the narrative material in this work. It recounts the story of Ben Sira's life and adventures in the court of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylonia. It also includes stories told by Ben Sira himself as answers to the king's questions. These stories often include pornographic elements, as well as derogatory descriptions of biblical figures, like King Solomon or Joshua. Some of the stories in this section contain motifs from international folklore and may be based on folktales, but they were adapted to the special framework of the work and satirical elements were added to them. Examination of the various versions indicates that here, too, there were 22 stories, arranged according to the letters of the alphabet, to which 12 other stories were added.
The fourth part, which is found in most versions and gave the work its name, contains 22 alphabetically arranged epigrams attributed to Ben Sira that serve as material for discussion and interpretation by Ben Sira's son, Uzziel, and his grandson, Joseph b. Uzziel. The contents are satirical and even heretical. It may be assumed that this part was constructed in the same manner as the two previous ones – 22 + 12 sections. The work, therefore, displays elements of unity both in structure and in its ideological aims. It is all but impossible, however, to discover the background upon which such a work could have been written. Some scholars (L. Ginzberg and others) believe that it aimed at ridiculing the story of Jesus' birth; but the basis for such a conclusion may be found only in the first part, and even this is not very clear, for the irony seems to be directed more against God than against Jesus. It is hardly possible that the author was a Karaite, as some of the abusive stories are directed against biblical figures, and not only against the Talmud and Midrash. It seems likely that the author did not belong to any organized group or definable ideological movement, but was merely a writer with an anarchistic tendency who used satire to ridicule all the institutions of established religion in his day.
Another difficult problem is the relationship between this pseudepigraphal work and the original proverbs of Ben Sira. Some of the proverbs and epigrams included in the work are originally in the work of Ben Sira, but many such proverbs are found in talmudic literature, and the author probably took them from there. The author of the pseudepigraphal work did not even know Ben Sira's first name. There is only one slight connection that might be accidental: the Wisdom of *Ben Sira has a preface written by the author's grandson, who edited the work, and in the pseudepigraphal work the figure of a grandson is also present.

Buh buh But thats just a reddit comment and some random websites. Whu Whu What are you gonna do OP? Analyze the entire text to prove its a shitpost.
Yes.
Mods turn the music on.

Analysis Of Alphabet of Sirach/The Alphabet Of Ben Sira:

The text we will be using.
We are going to skip most of it and just jump straight into the section with Lilith, but if you do chose to read it, have a good time. Shit is funny as hell. Let's start of with Lillith's Birth. Many like to potray Adam and Lilith's first interaction like this.
1, 2, 3
It is often either stated or implied Adam either tried to force Lilith into a s*x position she didn't want or that he he stated that she was inferior to him and she spit back. While this nicely fits into the "yas Queen SLAYYY" interpretation, its not the truth...mostly.
Here is the actual text:

When the Holy Blessed One created the first Adam alone, They said, (Genesis 2:18) 'It is not good for this Adam to be alone.' They created for him a wife out of the Earth like he had been, and called her Lilith. Immediately they began to challenge each other. She said, 'I will not lie below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while I am to be the superior one.' Lilith responded, 'We are equal to each other inasmuch as we were both created from the Earth.' But they would not listen to one another. When Lilith saw this, she pronounced the Ineffable Name and flew away into the world's air.

So first, no she wasn't going to be sexually assaulted. Secondly, it was just a couple arguing with each other. Yes, Adam shouldn't have said that about Lilith, but we shouldn't take a statement said by an angry man as gospel for the religion. Plus, how on earth is blaspheming your Father and then running away from an argument an appropriate reaction to the situation? God didn't do anything wrong. Why you picking a fight with him? We will discuss this more, but lets continue.

The Holy Blessed One said to Adam, 'If she agrees to come back, good. If not, she must permit one hundred of her children to die every day.' They departed and pursued her, and overtook her in the midst of the sea, in the mighty waters wherein the Egyptians would ultimately drown. They told her God's word, but she did not wish to return. The angels said, 'We shall drown you in the sea.' She said to them, 'Let me be. I was created only to cause illness to infants. I have dominion over them for eight days after birth if they are male, and if female, after birth for twenty days.' When the angels heard Lilith's words, they insisted on taking her. But she swore to them by the name of the living and eternal God, 'Whenever I see you or your names or your forms in an amulet, I will have no power over that infant.' She also agreed to have one hundred of her children die every day.

There is much to go over here. First, WHERE ARE THE HUNDRED CHILDREN COMING FROM! These are the first man and woman. THERE ARE NO CHILDREN. Who is he talking about? And don't give me that bullshit that he mad a mistake. HE IS GOD. IN THE TORAH, HE IS OMNISCIENT. This makes no sense.
"I was created only to cause illness to infants. I have dominion over them for eight days after birth if they are male, and if female, after birth for twenty days." I am sorry fucking what? Who said that? God? No. Adam? No. The Angels? Definitely not. No one told Lilith she had to cause illness. She is just being a toxic bitch and offloading her problems. What the fuck?
Finally, "She also agreed to have one hundred of her children die every day." At this point, who has sympathy for Lilith? Lets objectively look at Adam's sin. Yes, he was sexist. Yes, that was wrong. Can't Lilith convince him to change? We know it is possible for a woman to convince Adam because EVE CONVINCED HIM TO EAT THE APPLE. So, clearly the man can develop his thoughts. Instead, Lilith just runs away from her problem, knowing that a hundred innocent children (HER CHILDREN BY THE WAY- hang on does that mean she fucked Adam and Eve's Sons. Isn't she like their aunt? I am pretty sure that's still incest) will die. Yes, God is partly to blame as well, but if I had to choose between a Misandrist Wife or dead innocents, I will go with the Misandrist Wife. Nothing shows Adam as violent just a dick, and she clearly has access to powers he doesn't cuz he can't fly.

Accordingly, every day one hundred demons perish, and for the same reason, we write their names on the amulets of young children, and she sees them, she remembers her oath, and the child is healed

I guess that's nice? But does she even really heal them? She just takes away an illness she caused. This is like saying I put out the fire, but I am the arsonist who started it. There wouldn't be a problem if I didn't create one. And that's how the story ends. Seriously.
There is more, but it doesn't really matter. Ben Sira cures a girl of farting everywhere, talks about hair follicles, slanders David, explains why Donkey Urine is important, and ends with a raven cucking an eagle. Its pretty funny.

In Conclusion:

So, TL;DR: Lilith's entire existence is based on a shitpost. In said shitpost, she isn't even that great of a person and isn't even a feminist.
So yeah, that's all I got. There is more to this Rabbit Hole if you are willing to go down, but that is the gist of it. I don't see how a woman who runs away from responsibilities, blames others for her failures, and would rather kill babies than do something hard is a feminist icon, but here we are. I don't really know how to end this. Uh, were you entertained?
Addendum: If you are of the Christian, Muslim, or Jewish Faith please comment below and clear up any misconceptions I wrote in this post. I will try to edit it to make it better. Feminists please try to be respectful in the comments. Sup Mods. Uh yeah, cool.

Addendum #2 - Mesopotamian Lilith:

Some people have been saying that I should analyze Lilith from Mesopotamian Origins as this would give her a more sympathetic view. Very well. There are three main sources: Tablet XII of the Epic of Gilgamesh, a Burney Relief, Arslan Tash amulets
Tablet XII of the Epic of Gilgamesh (Text we'll use): Lilith, a snake, and a bird steal a tree from a goddess and squat in it. Gilgamesh comes around kills the snake. The Bird flees. Lilith chimps out, destroys her home, and runs. Tbf, this is Gilgamesh, so I guess Lillith W?

The dyer (?) had not dyed his leather with it (?)
At its root the serpent, 'that knew not silence (?)' had made its nest
At its top the storm-bird (Zû) had put his young
In its midst Lilith had built a house
The shrieking maid the joyful
The bright Queen of Heaven tears for them (?) wept
His lady said a word to him
'Warrior Gilgamesh, its .... will thee'
The ibbaru garment that was of 50 minas from his loins he removed
What was 50 minas 30 ... . he made
His (?) brazen axe a road (?) his ....
1 talent 50 minas his in his hand he seized
At its root the serpent ' that knew not silence (?) ' he slew
At its top the storm-bird (Zû)
took his young (and) went away to the mountain
In its midst Lilith destroys (her) house

Burney Relief (Source): Yeah no

Even so, the possibility that the Queen of the Night plaque, with its high degree of skill in craftsmanship and attention to detail would be a representation of a lilitu is highly unlikely. According to the Hebrew tradition, Lilith was the first woman made by God who refused to submit to Adam's sexual demands and flew away, thus rebelling against God and his plans for human beings. She was thought to have then occupied the wastelands and, like the lilitu, to have preyed on unsuspecting men ever since. In either tradition, the lilitu was not a popular enough figure to have been portrayed on a plaque such as the Queen of the Night. Dr. Black notes, “Evil gods and demons are only very rarely depicted in art, perhaps because it was thought that their images might endanger people” (62). The mountain range depicted at the bottom of the relief is also thought to suggest lilitu identification in representing the wilderness the spirit inhabits but the headdress, the necklace, the rod-and-ring symbols and the significance of the plaque all go to argue against Lilith as a possibility.

Arslan Tash amulet (Source):

Whispering-incantation against the Flying-one, the oath of Sasam, son of Pidrišiša, god, and against the Strangler of the lamb: “The house I enter, you shall not enter And the court I tread, you shall not tread!He has made an eternal contract with us. Assur made a pact with us, all the sons of El,, and the great council of all the holy ones,With the oath of heaven and earth With the oath of Baal, lord of the earth With the oath of Horon, whose utterance is true,His seven concubines and the eight wives of Baal Qudš”[Written around and between the images] Oh Flying one, from the dark room pass away!Now! Now, night demons! [Written on the Sphinx figure] From my house, O crushers, go away! [Written on the wolf-like figure] Oh Sasam, let it not be opened for him And let him not come down to the door-posts The sun is rising for Sasam. Disappear, and fly away home.[Written on the axe-wielding figure](modified from Cross and Saley 1970 and Berlejung 2010).

So where the fuck is Lilith? Well the text in its original language features lly- which if you add a "t" could be llyt [Lilith], but it also can be ll wyn which means "night and day." So, yeah not exactly a Lilith W. And that's it. I don't know how this makes her sympathetic, but to each their own.

Addendum #3 - Lilith R*ped Adam?

u/howhow326 said that there was a tale about Lilith raping Adam and being thrown out of Eden. This intrigued me to search for it, but unfortunately, I can't find a source for this anywhere. The closest I get is this Blogpost, but this seems to be more of a hypothetical than anything. Frankly, I don't think this should be part of the debate.
Edit 1: Originally, there was a line that said : "Hell fucking Jesus gets mentioned the prophet of the ENEMY, but not Lilith." I have since been informed that this is a gross misrepresentation of the Muslim Faith, and it has been removed.
Edit 2: Spelling and Formatting Errors Corrected
Edit 3: Mesopotamian Lilith added. Lilith's Rape Accusations.

(67 F) I'm 5'2 and was 150 lbs. when this injury happened/white. Had breast cancer (stage 1) 3 years ago-lumpectomy & 10 days radiation at Memorial Sloan Kettering-currently on Aromasin (brand name-not generic). Previously on Femara (brand name). Both these AIs cause a lot of collateral damage. I have 2 more years to go.
Also taking eye drops (Fluoromethenolone) and Acyclovir 800 for herpes in L eye (for 10 yrs). I take MethlyFolate with B, Vitamin D (500), and New Chapter Bone Strength (plant calcium) usually 2 or 4 a day.
I had tick borne illnesses from 2011 -2015.-Babesiosis, Bartonella and Anaplasmosis. I was basically in bed for a few years, but could not get a diagnosis locally until I went to Center for Complex Diseases in CA. I never tested positive for Lyme, but a lot of viruses seemed to reactivate and showed in blood tests at that time (EBV, several Herpes viruses, Parvo, and I think a few others. ) The EBV values were very, very high. If it's important for this diagnosis I will find the bloodwork from 2015. The Mepron was not tolerable and I didn't continue.
PRIMARY COMPLAINT.
I (67 F) handled 3 bags, 40 lbs. each, of chicken feed before leaving for Mexico. I tossed them into the car, then tossed 2 onto a sled and dragged across the grass to the barn about 50 feet away. It was very hard to pull them. The other one I carried. Then I lifted each bag into a metal can.
This was March 6, 2024. The next day (or so) I was hurting in both upper arms (elbows to shoulders) and both upper legs-mostly top of legs at groin, but also side hip pain-which I've had on and off in the past. It felt like muscle pain, not joint pain.
I went to Mexico for 6 weeks and was allowed a break from the Aromasin. I stopped Aromasin March 12 and went to Mexico March 14. (Last year in June I was on Femara and had a 4 week break in Mexico and the joint/muscle pain from Femara all stopped-I was able to walk about 4-5 miles a day-pain free).
This time the pain from the injury didn't subside at all. At its worst I could not push myself out of bed, nor sit or stand without a lot of pain and shakiness. I could not pick something off the floor. At best I could walk around the city a bit-and look kind of normal with just some limping-and a lot rest breaks.
I had a massage from a local woman (not trained in massage at all) and she "cured" my right arm, but not the left arm. To this day my right arm it is almost pain free, left arm is still terrible. I have a short video of me trying to lift toothpaste with left arm (at 45 degree angle) and my arm kind of jerks upward slowly. It was painful to do this.
While still in Mexico I went to a MD who specializes in muscle pain and had 3 ultrasound treatments/ massage of the sore muscles of arms and legs. I got immediate relief from 2 treatments and could walk normally (instead of limping) and function almost pain free for 2 days then it would all come back the 3rd AM. One of her treatments had no effect at all.
I had 3 other massages and got 2 day relief from the less trained woman, and no relief from the trained woman. Again, not sure how this is possible.
In Mexico I had no car so to eat I had to walk to restaurants. Sometimes this helped (like less than 2 miles over the whole day) but if I exceeded this I paid for it the next day. While in Mex I lost 10 lbs. partly because some days I could not walk for food.
Over my weeks in Mexico my Right IT band got stiffer and stairs became difficult.
Now back in US, over 9 weeks later, the pain is the same. It's terrible in the AM and usually a bit better in the afternoon-but not always. Unless I take Advil I'm not really functioning on the bad days and sleep is impossible. I continue with gentle yoga weekly (scaled back from regular yoga and some 5# weight lifting), and acupuncture weekly which was helping with normal Aromasin pain, previous to this injury, but does not seem to help this new pain. I found a pain massage therapist in my town, and the first 2 visits helped a lot and the 3rd massage made things a lot worse. She believes this to be muscular, rather than joint related, and possibly the arm pain is at the deltoid muscle attachment. That matches the area of pain and the ROM limitations I'm reading about. We are also checking on infraspinatus issues. The IT band is a lot better from massage and maybe acupuncture helped.
So I'm doing yoga (tai chi), acupuncture and massage while waiting for other doc visits.
There is also pain in the front of left shoulder but only when I lie on my back. This started prior to the injury so probably not related, but it seems to be getting worse.
I sometimes use CBD or CBD/THC gummies for sleep which don't seem to help with pain might help with sleep. I used CBD/CBG oil in Mexico which dId seems to help (it seemed to have THC in it too). I use CBD salve on L arm which sometimes helps (depending on the brand). I have prescription Lidocaine patches which don't help at all. Tylenol does not seem to help at all.
I went to an orthopedist locally who thinks this is osteoarthritis (but did not evaluate my L arm) but because it happened in one day, is bilateral, there is no crepitus, I think the pain is muscular rather than joint. Also, would massage fix the pain of right arm if this is joint related? Maybe it would, but....it seems more inflammation or muscle.
I have some OK days (pain 3-4) and some horrible days (pain 10 or about equal to "post shoulder surgery" pain which I had for rotator cuff of right shoulder in 2006). On the bad days everything hurts worse (arms and legs) and the pain radiates down to my left thumb. On good days the pain stays in upper left arm.
I kept detailed notes on the pain but didn't see any patterns that could explain what helped and what didn't. It seems hit or miss.
I can't sleep because there is no comfortable position-so now having dizzy /vertigo episodes which are pretty scary.
I don't smoke and don't drink at all (sober 42 years). I only use gummies which I cleared with Sloan. I don't take any rec drugs. We eat fairly clean, but not perfect.
I'm not sure what to do next to get a diagnosis. I'm going to PT on May 16th and Rheumatologist at NYU on May 22. What do you all think? Is there some other specialist I should see? I fear this will be permanent without a correct diagnosis. Any suggestions would help, and thanks in advance to anyone with an opinion.......

She was so far a great woman. Has never been promiscuous, never had something casual, and everything about her tells me that shes not crazy or wild. She is really into me and claims to be in love, happened really fast btw.
She said that she wouldnt mind doing OF if it was a real possibilty for her and then when I kept asking her If it was for real she said. Well I dont think so, id be embarassed.
Only reasons for not doing it when I ask her was that her students may find out. She is a psychologist and teacher, but she does not very well and she would like to make much more money.
She also mentioned that she lands a job related to politics, Mexico, she is going to steal as much money as she can and that she would be sorry to disapoint me but thats how it is.
Only red flaag had been that she plans to go with girlfriends to the beach for a weekend, she says her married friends do it all the time, I told her I thought that was not good and she said that im a little sexist.
Im not worried of her cheating, but im so dissapointed in her values.
Edit. So apparently your partner doing sexwork is perfectly fine, I guess im just very sexist and oldfashioned.

This is a long one so I apologize.
My (21F) grandparents (I think they are in their sixties) are the kindest people I have ever known. For a bit of context, they are my stepdad's parents and always treat me as their grandchild, when my mom and stepdad divorced I was still part of his family frequently visiting my grandparents. My dad got married to a younger woman and moved 4 hours away, because of this communication became weaker and his relationship with my sisters and I became very fragile. He started drinking and eating terribly and eventually passed away painlessly (I hope) in his sleep when I was 17.
It became apparent that the wife now a widow was trying to move him away for a reason, she took most of his life insurance and only gave my two sisters and I 4K she also held his things captive and tried to sell his quad that he was going to give to me. The quad doesn't run and is worth virtually nothing but means a lot to me, this is irrelevant to the story but wanted to add to show you what kind of person this is. A gofund-me was created to support my dad's spouse, in the bio she said that it was going to the funeral and the leftovers would be given to his children. I did not see a dime and it did not go to the funeral. My grandma had to ask people to "pitch in" for money which I also ended up donating the money I got from his life insurance, I was also getting ready to go to college at that time and was struggling with money.
Now fast forward 6 months my aunt came back from Mexico for surgery, she overdosed on the medication she was given for the pain and unfortunately passed away. Within 6 MONTHS my grandparents lost 2/3 kids and my grandmother was incredibly depressed which I don't blame her for. Remember how I said my sisters and I got 4k from our dad's life insurance? Well my twin cousins and their stepdad split the life insurance equally and each got off with 80K EACH, my aunt was not as well off as my dad and younger, I have mostly gotten over this though but it does irritate me when the subject comes up.
One of my twin cousins (21F) we'll call her Faith, had a baby soon after her mother passed, she was 18 when her son was born. She was not at all ready for a baby but wanted one because her mother frequently talked about being a grandma. Her boyfriend is a wannabe rapper and does have a job but doesn't make enough to support both of them healthily, Faith on the other hand does not have a job or a driver's license. When the baby was born they moved into my grandparent's house rent-free and eventually moved out.
Fast past 3 years my twin cousins and I are now 20. Over the past three years, my dad's widow has been frequently asking my grandparents for money to put towards her house. The house she lives in is huge to be honest and she could easily downsize. During this time one of my twin cousins (21M) we'll call him Fergus, moved in, he does not have a job or license and does not help around the house nor pay rent, he doesn't look like he's trying to get a job either. THEN to top it off Faith (the one with the kid) TOTALLED her boyfriend's car while driving without a license with the kid in the backseat, they asked for my grandpa's van which they gave her for FREE. My grandpa was looking for a new vehicle anyway and when my boyfriend and I went to visit he took my grandpa to look at vehicles but I feel like he should have been compensated for the vehicle he gave away.
My twin cousins are not getting any consequences for their actions. There is more the twins have done but I feel these are the most relevant. One day while visiting my grandparents the incident with the car came up, this was after Christmas last year.
I told my grandparents "I feel like the twins and my dad's widow are taking advantage of them and whether it's intentional or not they should stop helping them, tell them they are shit outta luck and time to grow up."
They responded with the usual they were trying to recover from the deaths of my dad and aunt. I say "It's been 4 years since they passed they should have their shit together by now, you guys still need time to recover from the deaths of your children."
They were affected too and my grandmother is still severely depressed, she's gotten better but her mom passed away last year and her brother is terminally ill. My grandma said that she didn't want to lose the connections she had with her kids by not helping. To her, she thinks that if she doesn't help them they will stop talking to her altogether.
I dropped it but did say that she should stop being a pushover to which my grandfather got mad and I did apologize. I don't know how to go about this as when I do bring things up with my dad's widow she slaps the "you're not his real daughter so you have no right to talk about this" in my face.
To put it in perspective I am 21 and live with my boyfriend, I'm currently in between jobs and struggling with money but I would never ask my grandparents first. I understand Fergus because he doesn't have a good relationship with his dad and doesn't have a spouse, but Faith has a kid and the father is present and he also has parents, where is their support?
I don't know how to continue this conversation without offending my grandparents but they are not able to enjoy retirement as they are taking care of everyone else. My grandpa also had to go back to work full time for enough money and asked my sister to move in to help with expenses.