Hi everyone, I hope you’re all doing well! I wanted to take the time to set a couple of ground rules for this protest. As you know, all are welcome so long as you want a better and more affordable future for Canadians. That being said, a couple of things must be established

1. Everyone must agree to show up with peaceful intent, unarmed, and ready to stand together
   
2. Face coverings of any kind will NOT be permitted (with the exception of medical face masks as some people may not feel comfortable in a big group without one for medical reasons and thats valid) bandannas, buffs, shiestys, ski masks, or any other kind of covering will be asked to remove it as it creates risk of bad actors due to the anonymity they provide. Hats are fine
   
3. Only Canadian flags will be permitted, any f**k Trudeau flags will not be welcome as they associate our movement with another movement that we wish to stay independent from and impartial to. There is also the issue of vulgarity and as whole families may be present at this protest, we would like it to stay family friendly. Posters and signs relating to the cause are very much welcome and encouraged, provided they are not profane.
   
4. No harassing the police. The police will be present to maintain the peace. Many of them have families to feed and fairly low income and agree with our cause, so let’s not harass those who are on our side. On that topic, should you witness any behaviour that poses a risk to the safety of the protesters or that threatens the integrity of our movement, we kindly ask you report it asap to police. Thats what theyre there for
   
5. More so a recommendation than a rule but bring a water bottle. There will be water stations who will be collecting optional donations that will go towards printing flyers and brochures, website domain name, water, and other protest expenses. Gatorade will be offered as well however those will be at a fixed cost TBD. Please do NOT feel obligated to donate, I know this is literally about money being tight so there is no pressure at all, but if you can afford to do so, it would be kindly appreciated and we may be able to make pins or something that we can exchange for donations. But please don’t become dehydrated just because theres a donation jar, water is a basic human right and will be available to all at absolutely no cost.
   
6. Absolutely zero vandalism will be tolerated, be it on government buildings, sidewalks, roads, etc. We ask that you report anyone you witness doing so, this includes destruction of property
   

I hope these are not unreasonable and everyone can get behind them, they will allow us to really have the best chances of success at making this work

It happened, I was replacing the omega springs after breaking and when I went to reassemble the knife, my stop pin was lost. After looking for several hours, it seems as though the piece alludes me.
Because of Canadian border laws, I cannot send the knife to be warrantied and they notified me they do not sent stop pins for Part Replacements.
Does anyone know a place where I can buy the stop pin online, with the right size? Any help or advice is very appreciated!

DISCLAIMER: I'd like to note that I do not consider myself an expert on many of the topics he talks about or even economics in general but a lot of what I'm about to say is pretty easily verifiable and basic, and I'll try to be clear that I'm expressing my opinion and not fact when I'm doing so. Given my lack of expertise, none of what I say here should be considered as the final authority on these topics, it's a reddit post for fucks sake, I encourage everyone to search up the relevant data and information on the topics they are interested in or claims they find dubious. It's really not that hard and all the links and data I'm gonna cite here took me less than five minutes to find for each piece of information. If you're not familiar with where to find this data it might take you longer but I promise that anyone with access to the internet can do the same thing I'm doing. Finally, for those looking for some opinionless, academic argument, that's not what this is, this is gonna sound like a rant because it is, I'm posting this for nothing more than my own satisfaction, take from it what you will.
Ok I'm writing this after I finished the whole thing and I said that I'd try to be clear that I'm expressing my opinion and not fact when I'm doing so and the basically entire second half of this is my opinion and I don't make that very clear so sorry about that.
Honestly I'd love to be wrong because I really do think that younger people are at a disadvantage compared to previous generations at the same age but the arguments he makes and the data he uses throughout his talk just sound like such bullshit to me.
https://www.ted.com/talks/scott\_galloway\_how\_the\_us\_is\_destroying\_young\_people\_s\_future?
https://www.profgalloway.com/war-on-the-young/
Scott Galloway recently did a Ted talk titled "How the US is destroying young people's future", as well as an accompanying blog post. He's made some fair points about how young people have been put at an inherent disadvantage and that they have it harder than previous generations. That's most likely true and I personally support that point of view, but the a lot data and numbers he makes this argument with seem to be cherry picked, misleading, or just straight up wrong. So let's break his talk down. u/JustTaxLandLol made a pretty good post about him comparing median wages to the S&P500 (https://www.reddit.com/badeconomics/comments/1cc3rs8/scott\_galloway\_compares\_median\_wage\_to\_sp500/) but I think that Galloway's mistakes are much more comprehensive than just that particular slide.
The first slide with data makes a claim about how pre-tax income, adjusted for inflation, has decreased across generations from grandparents to parents to kids, and that cost of public colleges and home prices have increased significantly across generations too. First of all, categorising generations by whether they have children or grandchildren is kinda nuts. That's a very wide, overlapping, range of ages. If he has actually fixed age ranges for each generation that don't overlap and just made these categorisations for the sake of understandability to a nonacademic audience, I still think that's the wrong choice but fine. However, his claim that real income has decreased across generations is weak at best. This working paper (https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/feds/files/2024007pap.pdf) from the Fed Reserve was published February 2024, and from the figures that start at page 35, shows that by almost every categorisation they could think of, GenZ earns more at the same age than every previous generation before them. There's some conflict here with Raj Chetty's work but I don't have the time or knowledge to reconcile the two perspectives but at best, the pre-tax income numbers Galloway presents are questionable at best. Furthermore, he doesn't provide anyone a chance at even checking the sources he gets this information from. Not once in his entire talk does he cite a single source. He couldn't even have some tiny text at the bottom of his tables or diagrams saying what organisation he got this data from. Ok so that crossed out bit is wrong, he does have sources they're just very very faint and you can see them if you squint hard enough at the bottom left corner of his graphs. But the source he gives for this slide is a joke. Here's the link https://www.profgalloway.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Table-01.png
His "source" is his own analysis. Ok so by his analysis, the average cost of public college is 56000*0.43 = 24080. I'm gonna use numbers from this US News page (https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/paying-for-college-infographic), which might not be the most reliable source in the world, but it's probably somewhere in the ballpark. So according to US News, average tuition for the 2023-2024 school year for out of state students going to a public school is 23,630 and 10,662 for in state students. If these numbers are anywhere near accurate, the only conclusion I can draw is that Galloway has cherry-picked his data by only including the cost for out of state students in his analysis. First of all, public schools in the US are there to provide affordable access to higher education FOR RESIDENTS OF ITS STATE. Using only out of state numbers is absolutely ridiculous. Secondly, even if he used only the in state numbers, 10662/56000 is approximately equal to 19%. So if I use his very very questionable pre-tax income numbers, cost of public college for in state students has still increased across his categorisation of generations. It's not like his point would have been invalidated if he had used the in-state numbers, a trend of tuition increasing as a percentage of real income across multiple generations is still very bad. This is my opinion but I guess that he just wanted to find a nice shocking number. I didn't catch this but in their post, u/JustTaxLandLol notes that later on Galloway says "real median income from labor is up 40% since 1974" so he's also contradicting himself in the same talk.
I couldn't be bothered to look into the house price to income column he has so I don't have any comments on that.
His next slide is a point about how the percentage of 30 year olds earning more than their parents did at 30 has been decreasing very significantly over time. This is from a paper in 2016 by Raj Chetty (link: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aal4617). I've seen some counterarguments about the methods used in the paper but there are counterarguments for basically every inequality paper in existence so I'd take them with a grain of salt. Those points are more complex than the scope of this post and I lack the expertise to be making them anyways so I believe this slide. I'll admit that Galloway makes a good argument for this slide.
Right after this slide he says "As a result, people over the age of 55 feel pretty good about America, but less than one in five people under the age of 34 feel very good about America. This creates an incendiary, righteous movement...". He supports this with data on the percentage of US adults who feel "extremely proud" to be American.
Before I talk about the data on this slide, I'd like to be a little anal about things and pick apart his wording and causal claims he makes. When Galloway says "as a result" he's making a causal claim about the relationship between a young person's earning ability and their national pride. Leaving aside the econometric issues of making random causal claims, this is a ridiculous marginalisation of all the other critically important issues in the US. It seems pretty clear to me that reduced national pride amongst younger individuals is a combination of a lack of social mobility (or however you want to word your version of the fading American dream), the continued existence of systematic racism and sexism, US response to ongoing conflicts in Ukraine and Gaza, bodily autonomy (abortion), and many other issues. Not to say that the economic disadvantages of young people doesn't play a role in causing this lack of national pride but come on. He also says "this creates an incendiary righteous movement...". Ok if the "as a result" from the last sentence could be interpreted as the economic disadvantages of young people play some part in their dissatisfaction with the government, it should be obvious to anyone not living under a rock that many of the political conflicts and movements that have erupted in the US over the past few years have little, if anything, to do with earning ability. In the slide after the poll data he shows three photos, one of a MeToo protest, one of a BLM protest, and another of a pro-Palestine protest. I can only interpret this as him making the claim that the younger generations economic difficulties are causally linked to those movements, which is totally bananas.
Now lets talk about the data. He got this from the Gallup polls (link: https://news.gallup.com/poll/394202/record-low-extremely-proud-american.aspx, there's a link to download the pdf with the poll numbers at the end of this article). There are 5 options for the Gallup poll: "Extremely proud"; "Very proud"; "Moderately proud"; "Only a little proud"; or "Not at all proud". So Galloway is cherry-picking again. To be fair, it's true that even including the rest of the answers, a quick glance at the data suggests (very strongly) that young people are less proud than older people. There are also more young people who choose "Not at all proud" (11% for 18-34 and 1% for 55+). Though there is probably some argument to be made about whether "extreme" pride is a good thing. Furthermore, "pretty good" and "very good" do not reflect the extremity of choosing, well, the most extreme option.
As an introduction to his next slide he says that "a decent proxy for how much we value youth labor is minimum wage". I've never heard of this before and am very very skeptical but I'm willing to attribute this to my own ignorance so I'll leave that sentence alone. So on this slide there's a graph with two lines, one is minimum wage across time adjusted for inflation, the other is whats supposed to be minimum wage if adjusted for productivity (also adjusted to inflation I assume). Galloway got this data form the Economic Policy Institute (EPI) (https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/), which shows that this gap between productivity began around 1979. This was when Carter was president and right before the Reagan administration. Those who know about the economic history of this time probably won't be surprised since a lot of the policies of this time were rather inegalitarian and heavily favoured the wealthy. I agree that many of the policies of the time contributed heavily to the inequality America faces today and though I haven't read any studies about how this affects minimum wage workers, I believe that minimum wage workers or low income workers in general today have significantly lower purchasing power relative to a few decades ago.
What I have a problem with here is the idea that productivity and minimum wage should increase in tandem. According to the EPI, "Productivity measures how much total economywide income is generated (i.e., for workers, business owners, landlords, and everybody else together) in an average hour of work" and "pay is defined as the average compensation (wages and benefits) of production and nonsupervisory workers. The pay for this group is one appropriate benchmark for 'typical worker pay' because production and nonsupervisory workers have made up roughly 80% of the U.S. workforce over the entire period shown in the figure and because the data for production and nonsupervisory workers exclude extremely highly paid managerial workers like CEOs and other corporate executives". Before I try to break down my complaints with the measures used, my immediate reaction when I saw this was that it seems rather stupid to compare the relationship between average productivity and minimum wage in an industrial economy against the same relationship in a service oriented one. There are just more jobs now that let you make an impact on the economy far beyond what you are paid and it is so so difficult to quantify this change. Using a similar argument, I really have no clue how macro people make models or do estimates for things like productivity but I'm quite skeptical about the reliability of using such a measure of productivity because of the increased prevalence of second, third, or n-th order effects that would be present in a measure of something like total gdp but pretty much impossible to identify for any employer. For those who want to read more about this difference between productivity and compensation I think this is the most relevant paper from EPI (https://files.epi.org/2015/understanding-productivity-pay-divergence-final.pdf). There are some points I'm not satisfied with in this paper like them attributing the entirety of the difference between median hourly compensation to average consumer hourly compensation but that would take more time than I want to spend on this.
Now we're still on the same slide. Galloway says "we've kept it [minimum wage] purposely pretty low" twice in three sentences. Now he's suggesting that there's some collective out there that has the political power and desire to keep minimum wage low. By "we" I think he means to suggest that the old-timers have banded together to screw the young people over. Ok buddy. I'm stepping outside the bounds of what's considered strictly economics here a little but pinning the injustices of society on some ethereal enemy whose existence can never be disproven is the same as taking "advantage of the flaws in our species with medieval institutions, Paleolithic instincts, and godlike technology" (Galloway's words, same TED talk) to me. Maybe there really is some cabal of scheming geezers out there who have some twisted desire to keep the minimum wage low, but I'm more inclined to believe that a lot of these "injustices" are a result of our existing political and societal institutions being poor and inefficient aggregators of our desires as a society, rewarding selfishness instead of cooperation. This certainly makes the problem harder to solve than if there were just some evil 'others' we could get rid of and be done with. Having a target to direct our outrage at, believing that I am good and they are bad, is easier than facing the reality that everyone is born with the selfishness that creates the injustices we live with but that's not gonna make people more agreeable. As an economist, I study the theory of incentives to use the same human selfishness that creates all the problems Galloway talks about to create solutions that hopefully improve our quality of life. This is what I believe is the beauty of being human, all the good and bad that happens stem from the same desires, it is our job to create institutions and systems that allow us to channel our desires in a way that benefits everyone, but I digress. The point is, this enemy that Galloway creates is an effective tactic at convincing people of his argument, but I don't believe such a perspective benefits society at all. Mistakes should be corrected, that doesn't mean they're always the result of ill intentions.
His next slide compares the difference between percentage increase in median household income against percentage increase in median home price, as well as a comparison of the median monthly mortgage between 2019 and 2024. I have nothing to say about the graph, I agree that over time, home prices have increased to an unacceptable level. The Fed funds rate went from 2.4 percent in Feb 2019 to 5.33 percent in Feb 2024 (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/fedfunds). To his credit, Galloway does attribute this increase in mortgage payments to "an acceleration in interest rates" but what's the alternative? Don't increase interest rates? Then if I was Galloway I'd make the same TED talk and talk about how the continued low interest rates contributed to rampant inflation that made all the poor people even poorer. It seems like he's decided to take whatever bad economic event that seems somewhat relevant and made it to be the result of some group's dogged determination to keep the younger generation down. Why is the increase from pre- to post-covid prices on anything surprising. I'd like to meet the genius who saw covid coming and intentionally created this increase in home prices.
He also says "the most expensive homes in the world, based on this metric, are number three, Vancouver. Why? Because 60 percent of the cost of building a home goes to permits...". I have no idea what point he's making here. Based on what metric, median home price? Monthly mortgage payments? Why do I care about Vancouver, a Canadian city, being number three? Then he talks about how "the incumbents that own assets have weaponized government". Either he's switched to talking about oligopolistic lobbyists in general without saying so or he's still talking about Canada. I dunno. Someone please explain. Then he says "this is the transfer I'm going to be speaking about". Also, everything he just said is talking about how there exists a group of people trying to PREVENT transfers of wealth to new entrants. And there was huge applause after that sentence. Nutsos, all of them.
Ok next slide. Galloway presents two pie charts, comparing the share of household wealth by age in 1989 to 2023. So he's talking directly about inequality in wealth now. Inequality in the US is really really bad, that's a fact. I'm a big fan of the work of Emmanuel Saez, Gabriel Zucman, and Thomas Piketty. These people have been at the forefront of research on inequality for many years now and though their work is not flawless, I'm convinced by the data they present and the methods by which they have aggregated the data and what they show is that inequality is worse than even what the pie charts Galloway presents suggest. However, this is not to say that Galloway makes a valid argument. Please note the grey bits in the pie chart. If Galloway has shown the numbers for everyone under 40 and above 70, the group that's excluded are those between 40 and 70. So those in the age range of 40-70 owned 100 - 19 - 12 = 69% of household wealth in 1989 and 100 - 30 - 7 = 63% in 2023. I could probably go and find how the age demographics of the population have changed over time and I think that with declining birth rates, the percentage change in age demographics would be pretty close to the percentage change in household wealth but I'm tired of beating every slide to death so I'll leave that to someone else if anyone's motivated enough to do that (if my hypothesis is wrong here just comment and I'll make that change). My first thought when I saw this though was again, this guy has paid no regard to structural change in society. Given the increased accessibility of buying stocks over the past three decades is it really that surprising that older people who have had more time and cash at the start of the digital age to invest in companies that are now massive mega-corporations have experienced a higher return on their capital. This is not to say that none of this change in the share of wealth held by those under 40 is due to some inherent unfairness in our society and I have neither the time nor knowledge to separate these effects out but to say that this was a "purposeful" effort to cut their wealth in half is complete and utter bullshit. Also, this guy makes another causal claim WITH NOTHING BUT A CHANGE IN SHARE OF HOUSEHOLD WEALTH. Congratulations everyone Scott Galloway has just made every econometrician in the world redundant, I always knew my professors were just trying to confuse me with funny symbols and Greek letters, someone get this guy a Nobel Prize.
Then while introducing his next slide Galloway says that his analyst's presence in the audience "brings the average age of the entire conference down in 11 days". So he's saying that TED knows exactly who's showing up to their event before it happens and that they have the exact birthdates of everyone in the audience too and that they've given this information to one of their speakers. A friend of mine has told me he's just making a joke and that I should let this point go because I'm being too anal about things but yeah I become anal about things when someone suggests sweeping institutional changes in a talk viewed by millions of people so thought I'd include it anyways just as another example of the bullshit this guy has been spewing.
When he moves on to the actual content in the slide the first point he makes is about lower acceptance rates in schools. So I don't have data on this because I couldn't be bothered to go find any so again, I'll change my statement if anyone has reliable data indicating otherwise but I think its pretty safe to say that way less people used to apply than before and combined with an increase in international student applications and enrollments the competition is just way higher than before. The most obvious explanation would be that higher education institutions have made the mistake of not increasing enrollments at a rate quick enough to meet demand. However, according to US News (https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/how-many-universities-are-in-the-us-and-why-that-number-is-changing) there were 3982 degree-granting postsecondary institutions in the US. and UCLA is ranked 15th in national universities. So why is it surprising now that university education is becoming more popular that higher ranked universities are harder to get into. So instead of expanding enrollment I think that a well thought out plan of affirmative action would be a much better option of giving "unremarkable kids and giving them a shot at being remarkable" (what this well thought out plan may be I don't know, I honestly didn't even search up any statistics about affirmative action this was just the first solution I thought of that didn't involve ignoring the crowning achievement of statistics). To his credit, Galloway does include a point about income-based affirmative action at the end of his talk, though he overwhelmingly emphasises increasing enrollment in schools. I don't have any data about that but I think that class sizes at public universities are large enough as it is.
The rest of the slide gives numbers on college debt of house price compared to first year income. College debt is ridiculously high and many people struggle because of it. I don't have the solution and neither does Galloway because he doesn't really mention it. I think that house price-to-first year income is a poor comparison because it doesn't take into account average rate of income increase and no normal person from any generation is looking to buy a house with first year income but there's probably a more appropriate metric out there that shows a similar change anyways so I'm ok with that.
Then he talks about him and his "colleagues" who "artificially constrain supply to create aspiration and scarcity". I would like to meet the professors who have control over enrollment rates because none of mine did. Then he says "to my colleagues in higher ed: we're public servants, not fucking Chanel bags". The marketing professor from NYU says he's a public servant...ok.
The slide after that compares Harvard's increase in endowment compared to their increase in enrollment and he calls them a "hedge fund offering classes". I see no issue with this point, he made a great argument, can't really criticise anything here.
Don't worry though he makes up for it by immediately making one of the most egregious statements in this whole talk. We're looking at his next slide, the one titled "Grand Bargain" now. He says that the government should take some of the money that's supposed to be used to forgive existing loans to about 500 of the top public universities to reduce tuition by 2% and year, expand enrollments by 6% a year, and increase vocational programs to 20% of the degrees granted. Then the slide after that, claims this will double freshman seats and cut costs in half in just 10 years. Ok so he thinks that most of the money "earmarked to bail out the one third of people that got to go to college on the backs of the two thirds that didn't" should go to future students instead because, I assume from the tone of his words, he doesn't think they need or deserve all that loan forgiveness. So why bring up the increase in college debt previously (the slide I talked about three paragraphs ago)? Anyways that's not the crazy thing. Let's see what happens if you reduce tuition by 2% a year for 10 years. So the calculation goes like this 0.98^{10} is approximately equal to 0.81. So with the number he puts up, tuition decreases by 19% in ten years. If everything before this slide could be attributed to cherry-picking, stupidity, or lack of good data, then fine he's just ignorant even though he shouldn't have been if he went up there to make that talk. But now this is just a FUCKING BAREFACED LIE. I cannot think of a greater insult to the audience's intelligence than the fact that this guy didn't think anyone would pull out a fucking calculator and do the calculation themselves. I won't blame the audience for not saying anything because I'm not sure I would have wanted to do that either but at least from youtube and reddit comments there are a decent number of people who didn't realise this. A similar calculation shows that expanding enrollment by 6% per year increases seats by about 80% total (1.06^{10}). Not sure how that translates in terms of freshman seats but at least this is closer than the tuition claim.
Then his next slide compares wages to the s&p500. This is the point of u/JustTaxLandLol's post and I think his post and the discussion in the comments covers most if not all of my thoughts so you can just read that. https://www.reddit.com/badeconomics/comments/1cc3rs8/scott_galloway_compares_median_wage_to_sp500/
Ok next slide, "The Transfer: Purposeful". Oh yay he's about to make another causal claim with nothing but a graph on the change in top marginal tax rates for corporations and individuals. And if we skip ahead to the next slide we'll realise that this claim is that the gradual decrease in top marginal tax rates for corporations and individuals results in lowered senior poverty and child poverty either remains constant or increases. Yes everybody the newest advancement in economic research has just been released. Lowering top tax rates decreases senior poverty and increases child poverty. And Scott Galloway made that argument in 24 seconds (transcript on TED website has time markers).
Man I really set out with the intention to keep the tone of this post as neutral as I could but I'm just writing out my internal dialogue with less swearing now. I apologise to those who would have preferred a more careful and less emotional knee-jerk response of an analysis but this is a reddit post, its not like there are standards.
Now he moves on to talking about social security. Galloway says "it would cost 11 billion dollars to expand the child tax credit. But that gets stripped out of the infrastructure bill". So zero explanation about why it would cost 11 billion dollars to expand the child tax credit, why not more or less, no comment about how many children it would affect, how much money it would mean for each child or family, just some number that you have to accept. Most of the time there's no why to the amount of funding that the government allocates to policies but at least there's some breakdown to how its going to be used, Galloway doesn't even have that. This is before we even consider the fact that child tax credit was expanded this year (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/child-tax-credit-2024-who-qualifies/). Maybe he's talking about some other issue that I'm not aware of but I don't think so. He says he got the social security spending data from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, which is a think tank. I don't want to sort through their website to fact check so I'll accept it as the truth but as far as I know the actual social security administration releases their facts and figures for the year August of next year so I'm not sure why he didn't just use the 2022 numbers from a more reliable source.
His next few couple slides are about the increasing age of politicians. I think this is a great point but he probably should have used a better example of a younger politician than Justin Trudeau.
Then at around the 10 minute mark, using his slide titled "Generational Theft", Galloway claims that "we pumped the economy" during covid so that the Nasdaq would gain value, causing "intergenerational theft". I don't know if he thinks it was intentional or not but how is he going to completely ignore the fact that the stimulus checks were primarily for households that were struggling due to the greatest unemployment rate we have seen in our lifetime (https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/06/11/unemployment-rose-higher-in-three-months-of-covid-19-than-it-did-in-two-years-of-the-great-recession/). I'm really kind of tired of this so I'll let those at the CBR make my argument for me. "Within the first 10 days, households spent an average of 29 cents from every dollar received. The bulk of this spending was on food, rent, and bills" (https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/how-effective-were-stimulus-checks-us). Damn so turns out struggling families did need these stimulus checks pretty urgently. Shocker. I also think that most people in finance would agree that tech stocks surged over covid because people needed fucking technology... People built PCs to play video games, used online shopping services because they couldn't go to malls, all that.
The next slide is supposed to support his point that the increase in stock prices doesn't allow young people to find "disruption". What. The only thing that matters to any investor is the percentage increase in value of the stock price after you've invested. It doesn't matter if 7 dollars is 1 share of apple or 0.04 of a share of apple. Its stock price going up by 100% means you get 14 dollars either way. I think this guy's arguments are getting dumber as the talk goes on, I actually had to go and find data to refute his points earlier on. Now arithmetic does the work for me, I should have hired a grade schooler to do my analysis.
His next point is about how algorithmic content selection is bad. Yeah its bad. Its bad for everyone, turns everyone into psychos. Though I think there's a very good argument to be made about how such content could affect developing brains. He makes a point about age-gating social media at the end of the talk. This is actually the only drastic measure he proposes that I agree with so I'll leave this alone too.
After a couple slides about Zuckerberg and TikTok (which I agree with, though I think Zuckerberg's damage probably leans more towards older people than young now), he gives a bunch of graphs showing upward trends in all sorts of terrible things happening to young people. Every single one is an issue of critical importance in the US, but importantly, no comparison to older people. For all we know, the trend on every graph could be the same or even worse for older generations. If I had written about this first then I'd go and find the data for it but at this point I just want to be done with this but can't stop without getting to the end so I'm just gonna slap this slide with lack of comparisons and move on.
His next slide shows the difference in 30 to 34 year olds who have at least one child, some of that is probably due to family planning but I still think its a great indicator of people not wanting to have children because its not affordable. Great point, I believe in it.
Next slide, oh god it's a happiness report. I think happiness reports are a fun conversational tidbit but I see no way for it to be reliable enough to be used as an argument in any semi-serious setting. That said, I have no idea how they do these measurements so maybe I'm wrong.
As if the happiness report wasn't bad enough, Galloway is gonna compare the biggest one-day market cap gain (in an unspecified time frame) to the budget of several policies implemented by the government. Oh man. This is too stupid, there's so many things to pick from it'd take too much effort to sort through them. Someone else please make the argument for me.
Then he says universal basic income should have been called negative income tax. Wow the frequency of good points is going up, though I think this is accompanied by an increase in the frequency of absolutely idiotic arguments.
Then he says we should eliminate capital gains tax deduction. The issue of taxing capital gains is a very serious one, but I don't think it actually matters that much how much we tax realised capital gains. Again, not an expert but here's my understanding. If you have a high net worth with a lot of it in stocks and you need cash, you don't have to sell them and get taxed on the realised gains. You go to the bank and say I want to borrow money, I'm going to put these stocks up as collateral so if I can't pay you back you can take these stocks which are somewhere around the value of the principal amount plus total interest over the course of this loan. Because the bank is now convinced they'll get the money back regardless of if you make the payments or not, they say ok here's the money you asked for at a nice low interest rate. Then you take the money, you keep your stocks, which will probably gain value at a rate that exceeds the interest rate by a pretty decent margin, and you can probably make your interest payments pretty easily because hey, you were rich to begin with. If you're really strapped for cash a couple years down the line, you can sell some of the stocks that are now worth more than they were before and cover your payments and not have to pay taxes on the rest that you don't have to sell. Free money. There's plenty more ways to avoid taxes if you're rich but you get my point by now. Now that's a lot of problems without a solution. Luckily we have some economists far more skilled than I am who work very hard to find solutions to these problems. Here's one example of a policy that may help (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/03/opinion/global-billionaires-tax.html). This is an opinion piece written by Gabriel Zucman (famous economist), for the New York Times. If you don't have an NYT subscription, sorry for giving a link you can't read but if you search Gabriel Zucman billionaire tax, you could probably get a decent idea of what this talks about. Here's Zucman tweeting his proposal for his suggestion (https://twitter.com/gabriel\_zucman/status/1763253132572729623). It probably requires a little more thinking than the NYT article but he did present this at the G20 so that might sound more exciting to you than some news article.
Then Galloway says "we need to remove 230 protection for all algorithmically-elevated content". Zero mention on what 230 protection is so here's an explanation (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/230). Basically that was a fancy way of saying that companies should be held accountable of the content on their platform, even if it's posted by an unrelated third party. I'm not sure getting rid of it in its entirety is a great idea (though I have no arguments against that except Orwellian ones) but I certainly agree that most if not all social media platforms have abused this protection and it should be at the very least restricted. To what extent? Again, I have no clue.
Then he goes "break up Big Tech". That's the whole suggestion. This is a terrible idea but the fact that he doesn't elaborate more on how to do this, the ramifications of doing so, or really provide any explanation at all makes me automatically ignore this. Then he makes his point about age-gating social media, like I said before, I agree with it.
His next suggestions are universal pre-K, great idea, then "reinstate the expanded child-tax credit". Not sure what he's going on about here, child tax credit exists and like I said before, was just expanded. Then it's income-based affirmative action. I don't know what kind of affirmative action is best and that sounds like an interesting idea so I won't criticise it. I think the rest of his suggestions are pretty normative arguments so I'll leave those alone too.
Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree with the overall theme of his talk. I believe that young people in the US (and many places worldwide) are at a massive disadvantage when it comes to accumulating wealth, buying homes, inter-generational transfers, etc. But you cannot go up on a popular platform like this, make claims as sweeping as he has, and make suggestions as radical and drastic as he has, with garbage arguments and data like this. Saying the right things for the wrong reasons is arguably worse than just saying the wrong thing because it makes it easy for those who want the status quo to remain to make counterarguments. Given how divisive opinions have become over the past decade or so I guess I shouldn't be surprised at how many people are eating this up but it kinda scares me how easily people will eat up this shit as long as its for a cause that sounds like its going for some kind of radical change for the good of all and has some imaginary "them" as the common enemy to everyone.
So that's it, I've finally covered all his points. I'm free, thank fuck. I should really proofread this but this has been my past eight hours and my back is breaking from all this sitting, I'm just gonna post this and read it over tomorrow. Maybe do a tl;dr, fix some formatting.
EDIT: As u/myphriendmike and u/Mordoci have pointed out, my dummy corp example was just tax fraud, that's illegal and so it's a bad example, I've removed it. Zucman has some estimates on the "real" tax rate wealthy people (mostly billionaires) pay, maybe I'll include that at some point.
I also corrected my wording in some places.

Got some more records to sell, did my best to price under Discogs based on condition and such, but I'm always open to offers, especially bulk deals. Please message me if you need to verify pressing info, or check my Discogs page (Ryan-brio) to find all these albums listed under the correct pressings, as well as many more listings for cassette and CD. Also feel free to message me if you need photos or any other questions, photos, etc. I respond fast and ship within 24h! Shipping is $9 + 2 for each add on, shipping from Montreal, QC. Thanks for looking!
The Beatles - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (LP, Album, RE, Gat) VG+/VG+ Second pressing on Apple. In very nice shape, plays great $24
The Beatles - Magical Mystery Tour (LP, Album, RE, Win) VG+/VG+ Vinyl is in excellent condition. Inlucdes booklet. Early reissue, great copy $22
The Beatles - Abbey Road (LP, Album) VG+/VG+ Nice copy, light marks on the second side. Great copy. This is the first pressing. $24
The Beatles - Revolver (LP, Album, RE, Win) VG+/VG Late 60's reissue on Apple. Disc is in great shape. Sleeve graded VG due to some wear on the spine, the front cover looks great $20
The Beatles - Meet The Beatles! (LP, Album) VG+/VG+ 1967 pressing from Canada, which was the first time it was released here. In great shape, on rainbow label. $24
The Beatles - Beatles VI (LP, Album, RE) EX/VG+ Early reissue from the "Red Target" label series. In very nice shape. $20
The Beatles - The Beatles Again (LP, Comp, Mod) VG+/VG There is one shallow mark on side 2 but it plays great front to back. $20
The Beatles - Help! (Original Motion Picture Soundtrack) (LP, Album, RE) VG+/VG Early reissue on red Capitol label. Disc is in great shape, but the cover has some ring wear and a label on the top left corner with some writing. $10
George Harrison - All Things Must Pass (3xLP, Album + Box) VG+/G The six sides range from VG to EX, it plays great throughout. the original owner has cut the right side of the box open and taped the other sides together so they could take the LPs out of it like a normal record, hence the G grade $26
The Beatles - Something New (LP, Album, RE) VG++/VG+ "Red Target" series reissue. In excellent condition. $20
The Beatles - Beatles '65 (LP, Album, RE, Red) EX/VG "Red Target" label series. Disc is in amazing shape. Sleeve is nice but has a label on the top left corner with some writing. $22
The Beatles - Yesterday And Today (LP, Album, Comp, RE) VG+/VG Late 60's reissue, green label. No, this is not the Butcher cover, lol. Great shape. $20
The Beatles - The Beatles' Story (2xLP, Album, Mono) NM/VG discs are in stellar condition, almost look unplayed. $20
**I also have a starter copy of Rubber Soul, free with any order over $50, let me know if you need it!**
Fleetwood Mac - Fleetwood Mac Live (2xLP, Album, Lar) VG+/VG+ Nice copy, plays great $20
Elton John - Honky Château (LP, Album, Env) VG+/VG+ Great copy, pasted photo, envelope cover is intact $15
Aerosmith - Toys In The Attic (LP, Album) VG+/VG+ Better than average copy. $12
The Police - Outlandos D'Amour (LP, Album) VG+/VG+ One mark on side 1 that does not affect play otherwise NM $12
Frank Zappa - Zappa In New York (2xLP, Album, Qua) VG+/VG Only superficial marks (paper scuffs and the like.) Cover has average wear. Fine copy. $12
Harry Belafonte - Belafonte At Carnegie Hall - The Complete Concert (2xLP, Album) VG+/VG+ A few very light hairlines here and there, still a great copy that retains most of it's gloss. Cover is intact, a small bit of wear around the edges but very nice. Has a name tag on the top left corner. $20
Pink Floyd - The Dark Side Of The Moon (LP, Album, RE, Gat) NM/VG+ 2nd pressing, amazing shape, no inserts. $35
Tim Buckley - Lorca (LP, Album, RE) Australian reissue NM/NM. $20
Shuggie Otis - Freedom Flight (LP, Album, Pit) P/VG Plays VG but please read. Has minor heat damage but is not warped. This results in a consistent hissing noise throughout the playback that doesn't overpower the music. Still quite an enjoyable listen, sounds good and doesn't really have any marks otherwise. Ask for a video! Great starter copy for a decent price if you just want the album. First US Pitman pressing. $50
Caravan - In The Land Of Grey And Pink (LP, Album, ffr) EX/EX Quintessential prog rock classic. First Canadian press on Blue London label. So close to NM $26
The Impressions - People Get Ready (LP, Album, Mono) VG/VG Rare first Canadian mono pressing! Plays fantastic. $25
John Martyn - The Tumbler (LP, Album, RE, Pin) NM/VG+. A perfect NM. Early UK repress on pink rim Island label. $45
John Martyn - Live At Leeds (LP, Album, Ltd) EX/VG. Disc is in amazing shape, cover has some wear. No autograph. $35
The Zombies - The Zombies (LP, Album, RP) VG/VG 1967 repress on Parrot, the Zombies debut album. Very hard to find. Plays amazing. $40
Steely Dan - Can't Buy A Thrill (LP, Album, Club, Cap) EX/VG Sleeve downgraded due to a small stain on the corner of the cover, barely noticeable. Album plays excellent. $30
Anthony Braxton - New York, Fall 1974 (LP, Album, Gat) NM/VG++ Amazing copy, first Canadian pressing. Amazing free jazz album. $24
Bob Dylan - Blonde On Blonde (2xLP, Album) VG+/VG '68 repress, 360 Sound label, Canada Stereo. Great copy. $20
Bob Dylan - Oh Mercy (LP, Album) VG/VG Strong VG copy. Plays great with light surface noise in certain parts. 1989 US $22
**ALBUMS $10 AND UNDER!**
Eric Clapton - Eric Clapton (LP, Album) EX/VG+ $6
Eric Clapton - E.C. Was Here (LP, Album) EX/VG+ $6
Van Morrison - Beautiful Vision (LP, Album) NM/NM Perfect copy $8
Janis Joplin - Janis Joplin's Greatest Hits (LP, Comp) EX/VG+ Excellent copy $10
George Thorogood And The Destroyers* - Move It On Over (LP, Album) NM/VG+ Great shape! $10
Alice Cooper - Alice Cooper's Greatest Hits (LP, Comp, RE) VG+/VG+ $8
Aphrodite's Child - Rain And Tears (LP, Comp) VG+/VG+ Great compilation. This was Vangelis' first group and the songs are great. First Canadian issue. $8
Frank Sinatra - In The Wee Small Hours (LP, Album, RE) 70's reissue from Holland. Would be Nm except for one light mark on side 2. plays great. $10
The Plastic Ono Band - Live Peace In Toronto 1969 (LP, Album) VG/VG Strong VG, first pressing $10
Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin II (LP, Album, RE, Gat) VG-/VG Late 70's repress, plays with noise in some parts ~$15~ $10
Stan Getz / Charlie Byrd - Jazz Samba (LP, Album, Gat) VG-/EX First pressing on Verve, plays with surface noise. Cover excellent $10
Keith Jarrett - The Köln Concert (2xLP, Album, Pit) VG+/VG+ First US press on ECM with catalog. $10
Todd Rundgren - Hermit Of Mink Hollow (LP, Album, Gol) VG+/VG+ In very nice shape $5
Captain Beefheart And The Magic Band - Bluejeans & Moonbeams (LP, Album) VG/VG Solid VG, great player copy ~$16~ $10
Sandy Bull - Demolition Derby (LP, Album) VG/VG Solid VG copy $10
Animal Collective - Centipede Hz (2xLP, Album) EX/VG Sleeve graded VG due to some mild water damage. The discs are unaffected. Please ask for photos. $10
The B-52's - The B-52's (LP, Album) First Canadian pressing. Strong VG copy with light marks but plays great. Cover VG+. ~$12~ $10
Queen - A Day At The Races (LP, Album, RP, Gat) VG+/VG Cover has a lot of shelf wear due to the thick insert but the disc plays fine. Includes OIS. ~$14~ $10
Renaissance (4) - Prologue (LP, Album, Jac) VG+/VG+ Fine copy. $6

So, the situation I'm looking at is as follows:
Grandparents: German born in 1930s and married after war. Moved to Canada in 1960s and naturalized there.
Mother: Born in Germany in 1957. Came to Canada and naturalized, losing German citizenship prior to marrying father
Father: Canadian
Child: Born in Canada in 1980s
This doesn't quite seem like the situation described in the pinned post, or can German citizenship be passed down here despite naturalization?

Good morning reddit users on and Revolut.com as a company,
I’m reaching out to share a cautionary tale about my recent experience with a scam on Revolut.com. I want to warn everyone to stay vigilant and be aware of the risks associated with unauthorized transactions and compromised security.
Just a few days ago, I discovered that someone on Revolut used my stolen bank information without my knowledge or consent to charge my DEBIT (Chequing account) for 441.21$ .
What’s worse is that they were able to make unauthorized purchases without requiring a PIN, leaving me completely blindsided and at a loss. This experience has been incredibly distressing and frustrating, to say the least.
It’s a stark reminder of the importance of safeguarding our personal information and remaining vigilant against fraudulent activity. So, consider this a warning to all fellow users and redditor's in general who do online purchasing: be extra cautious when dealing with online platforms like Revolut.com.
Take proactive steps to protect your sensitive information, regularly monitor your accounts for any suspicious activity, and report any unauthorized transactions immediately.
I have already sent an e-mail regarding my situation to your formalcomplaints email as you have absolutely no way to chat with an agent because CANADIAN USERS CAN'T SIGN UP FOR AN ACCOUNT ON YOUR APP and I hope you resolve my matter in a timely fashion.
Again, as a warning, please do NOT deal with this company and always monitor and keep safeguards on your bank. I personally use ONGUARD and have all my security options boosted that my bank allows.
Always remain cautious and protect yourself.
***Edited for clarification***

So until last year I lived in the US, now I live in Canada (Manitoba specifically) and, this summer, I will finally be able to be apply for common-law with my BF which means I'll be able to be covered by his insurance. The problem is I still feel completely clueless about Canada's healthcare system and only a bit more confident in my knowledge of HRT.
I don't think I'm actually a woman, but the idea of masculinizing any further than I already have terrifies me. I would consider myself nonbinary or maybe even just a femme boy, not sure what fully yet, but I know I sure as hell I don't want to masculinize more. Becoming a woman isn't my goal currently but I'd rather that than the alternative, so potential side effects or taking 'too much' doesn't concern me. I'd much rather be on estrogen than testosterone and that's what I'm aiming for.
As I said though I'm still clueless about how Canadian healthcare works. My boyfriend knows more about it (born and lived whole life in Canada) but he's completely in the dark about the process for transitioning (he's cis).
Does informed consent exist at all in Canada like it does in the US? I see a pinned map on this sub but it has nothing about Canada. Can I really just go up to a doctor and be like 'hey I know the risks now please give me estrogen medical man?' I see some websites that say I'll need a diagnosis of dysphoria, but my anxiety has been getting really bad and I don't think I can handle waiting for a diagnosis from a therapist. Since Ontario doesn't need a diagnosis, would I be able to visit a hospital in Ontario, get a prescription there, and continue using it in Manitoba? I honestly have no idea if that would work or not.
I've seen a lot of talk of experiences from Ontario but almost nothing about Manitoba so I'm hoping there'll be someone that can give me some advice here. Thank you.
tl;dr Only been in Manitoba/Canada for a year and don't know what to expect.

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Maxi Taboada, Tyncho Mass - Brink Of Madness (Original Mix) / Key Dm, BPM 128, 7:08, MP3 17.26 Mb
Prophet, Space Bubbles - Empty Hands (Original Mix) / Key Bm, BPM 127, 6:05, MP3 14.75 Mb
Sergio Ramirez - A House With No Name (Original Mix) / Key Gm, BPM 124, 6:14, MP3 15.13 Mb
Serhat Bilge - Burn Away (Domshe Remix) / Key Fm, BPM 122, 7:26, MP3 18.01 Mb
Seven Caves - Paradigm (Original Mix) / Key Abm, BPM 126, 5:11, MP3 12.58 Mb
Siegelmund - Shame (Original Mix) / Key Bm, BPM 124, 6:00, MP3 14.56 Mb
Signals From The Past - Indigo (Original Mix) / Key Am, BPM 120, 6:23, MP3 15.50 Mb
Slava Pit - Rick Jane (Extended Mix) / Key Am, BPM 105, 3:21, MP3 8.19 Mb
Sosa Ibiza - Emule (Original Mix) / Key Em, BPM 128, 7:56, MP3 19.22 Mb
Space Bubbles - Refrain (Original Mix) / Key Bbm, BPM 168, 3:05, MP3 7.55 Mb
Space Bubbles - Show Us The Future (Original Mix) / Key Bbm, BPM 120, 5:24, MP3 13.12 Mb
Stephan Barbieri - Kamarina (Original Mix) / Key Ebm, BPM 130, 6:37, MP3 16.04 Mb
Sublime Sound - Sonar (Original Mix) / Key F#m, BPM 126, 5:21, MP3 13.00 Mb
Swindali - Dreamscape (Original Mix) / Key Bm, BPM 125, 3:06, MP3 7.61 Mb
Syronix - Ground Run (Double Agents Remix) / Key Abm, BPM 124, 7:00, MP3 16.96 Mb
Teacoma - If You're Hearing This I'm Famous (Original Mix) / Key Gm, BPM 144, 8:03, MP3 19.50 Mb
The Human Awakening - Memories Of A Distant Summer (Original Mix) / Key Dm, BPM 120, 4:30, MP3 10.96 Mb
Tippstrip - A New Hope (Original Mix) / Key Gm, BPM 125, 7:18, MP3 17.67 Mb
Toti Coco - Brakeless (Original Mix) / Key Cm, BPM 125, 6:10, MP3 14.95 Mb
Ulfberht - Barbara (Original Mix) / Key Cm, BPM 125, 5:25, MP3 13.14 Mb
Unknown - They Always Leave (Original Mix) / Key G, BPM 92, 4:05, MP3 9.97 Mb
Uriel Lange - Impact (Radio Edit) / Key Gm, BPM 120, 5:36, MP3 13.60 Mb
Vadim Kasse, Antias - French (Original Mix) / Key Gm, BPM 116, 4:09, MP3 10.14 Mb
Velvox - Rolling Pin (Original Mix) / Key Cm, BPM 123, 7:26, MP3 18.02 Mb
t0.n0.n0 - Amitlu (Original Mix) / Key Dm, BPM 127, 6:03, MP3 14.68 Mb
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DOWNLOAD - progonlymusic com

29th November 1964;

Sioux Lookout, SCS;

As he walked through the town’s centre, there was a strange air around the place, which Elias later noted in his notebook, one which he usually filled with pencil sketches that would form the rehearsal for his well-liked paintings. Looking up into the sky, there was only blue skies, with only a few wispy clouds within the sky, although these were a menacing dark-grey. From Elias Saunes’s accommodation, the streets had already mostly emptied, even though the day was now a Sunday when most would be shopping or taking to leisure. Even despite the extra funding being received from the government to promote more food production, the many in the town revered their free Sundays.
Elias took to the quietness with caution. Was there a coming storm that everyone was sheltering from? Well, stopping into the local everything-shop, to pick up his shopping for the week, he overhead the weather forecast toiling it’s tone upon the entire shop. Of course it was being broadcast over the tannoy - the shop-owner had left that tannoy on as he went for his break, so Elias knocked on the door to enter into the storeroom.
Even gentle knocking was enough to open the door.
Inside, the storeroom was as disorganised as Elias had expected. Even so, there was no owner inside, and none of the other three employees either that would stock the shop at the current time. On the wall were pinned a few notices. Surely these would explain the absence? The pins were for schedules, with one holding a torn-off piece, with a small sliver still attached.
Trying to make out some letters, Elias arrived at the conclusion that the letters present were ‘E LEA’.
He was duly interrupted.
“Hoi! Why are you back there, old man? Private areas, you’ve not stolen anything, haven’t you?” came a shout from the shop door. That was the owner.
“No, no, I was just wondering… where were the minders? I wanted to buy this milk and some cigarettes, and everyone else just seemed to have disappeared. Where were you, Joe?”
“All alright, I was at the station. Some members from the Maple Leaf Society came through the station and got out. They ran down the street, shouted for everyone to get out and see them. Wanted to deliver a message, told us about the recent changes to government policy regarding pensions, about them abandoning the idea of pursuing state pensions, and asked why they were doing the bare minimum for everyone? Asked us to show the petitions they sent to each and every one of us some days ago through our post office. Loved the look on their faces when most came back unsigned.”
That explanation from Joe, the shop-owner, was fair, but Elias wanted to know more. Weren’t that organisation quite anti-immigrant, weren’t they going to hate him being here?
“And me? What would they have said about me?” asked Elias, expectantly.
“They said they wanted this to be an area for Canadians to prosper, for all proper Canadians and they say that to exclude the Quebecois for some bastard reason, I’ve family in Saguenay and they’re fine enough people. By the way, were you asleep an hour ago or so, just wondering? Tis Sunday after all, and it’s only 10.”
“I was Joe. Also, didn’t the government just invest in their national insurance policies to improve unemployment wages? Why didn’t they mention that, were they just lying? And what about the fact that those pensions things were just rumours?”
“Eh. Some papers said it was fact, some didn’t and said it was rumours, and one called it a baseless claim, and people say all the media is the same. Hah, they get me every time. The bit about the time was just because they knocked on my door at 1015, assumed you didn’t hear because of the sleep. Anyways, want that milk and cigarettes? You told me before you wanted those.”
“Ah yes! Okay, so three packs for the fortnight, and then I’d like two pints of milk, pasteurised please. All fine?”
“Uh huh. Make sure not to tangle with those MLS people though - doubt you can land a fist if you needed to, at your age anyways. Stay safe, use the back-ways they’re clueless about if needed. I can escort you if needs be.”
“I’ll be fine. My hands can kill a fish, for sure they could land a strike. Bye Joe!”
“Bye pal, a better day!”
{DP to Agri / State Welfare}

“Are you ready?” Yasmin Raiz places a MASSIVE bowl of fried rice onto the table. “Hi everyone, it’s Yasmin Raiz, your Season 4 Mx Congeniality, and I’m here to host our REUNION of Season 5 of Chronologica’s Drag Race!” Yamin stands to welcome the monarchs. “Welcome back the lovely contestants of CDR Season 5! Madam Maine!”
Madam Maine re-wears her finale look: a top hat, fitted black and white suit and a pair of silver boots with a cane. She bows and smiles broadly, looking nervous.
“Kaia K. Beauvoir!”
Kaia strides out confidently in an elaborate gold and silver pageant dress, with silver hair that glitters with metallic extensions.
“Cwunchie!”
Cwunchie is dressed as a little yellow plastic flower, with big petals and a tiny narrow stem. Her arms and legs are constricted at her sides in the stem and she hops along the runway towards her chair, grinning wildly.
“Now, let’s welcome the elephant in the room.” Yasmin smiles. “Bates Baghdashi, everyone!”
Bates arrives in a sepia-painted Agatha-Christie-esque detective look, with decadent shades of tan, brown, and black, an oversized magnifying glass, a briefcase, and a messy mop of Sherlockian curls.
“Oh, I love this.” Yasmin claps.
Bates lights an oversized origami faux cigarette, pretends to smoke from it, then flicks it away, where it unfurls into a bird, already aflame, and blasts away into the air, powered by a miniature firework.
Madam Maine looks very afraid for a moment, and starts to stand up.
“Before we continue, I want to let everyone know that their safety is assured! You are not in danger.” Yasmin smiles at Maine. Bates blushes.
Maine sits back down.
“Say hello, it’s Mermaid princess, Cleo Mertoris!”
Cleo wears a golden seashell bikini top stoned to the gods, showcasing some clear, recent work done on her chest, as well as a tight blue mini dress, as she flicks back her long luscious ginger hair with a smirk.
“Drag Princesita!”
Princesita waves in a sepia coloured maxi dress and bald head look, with bronze glitter on the top of her now shaved head, as she spins around with a smile on her face.
“It’s Briar Midnights!”
Briar walks out dressed quite similar to Ambrose’s traditional look- a tophat and sleek black trench coat, with jet black, wet hair and a half-smirk.
“Ms Stripes, Starzanne!”
The others look unimpressed as Starzanne walks out in an American Eagle style look, with feathers, glitter and fringe wrapped around her body.
“Ambrose NOIR!”
Amborse wears a black plaid mini skirt and white linen shirt, going for a rare fem drag look, with long black braids with hundreds of little pins wrapped into the braids.
“S-S-e-v-e-r-a!”
Severa rocks BODY on the main stage, wearing a bikini top and denim short combo, as well as a sensible pair of blue boots and pigtails to add the final touch.
“Magenta! Leigh! Simmons!”
Magenta gaps, wearing a Magenta coloured plaid look, wrapped around her body to create a fitted garment, along with a Magenta pair of sneakers.
“Jupiter Sterling!”
Jupiter rocks a head to toe, douchebag Vuitton look- jacket, shirt, pants, glasses and a backwards baseball cap.
“Apocalyptica!”
Apocalyptica looks slightly displeased- wearing a bright, toxic green look that appears to have toxic slime wrapped around her, in a similar vein to a past look.
“Lupe LaBelleza!”
Lupe wears a sensible pussycat wig, red coat and matching pencil skirt, with a black sheer turtleneck and a red fedora, along with a pair of black sheer socks being held up by garter belts and classic black pumps with a smile.
“And our winner, Nymphe d’Azote!”
Wearing her crown on her shoulders, her head too small for her crown, Nymphe is dressed in a glittering yellow robe, wearing a matching facemask looking ready for a spa moment, along with a wig, made entirely of bubbles!
Yasmin smiles, handing people plates of rice. “Now, today we're spilling ALL of the TEA. At the start of our season, we said goodbye to some girls that some fans really wanted to see more of. Say hello to Madam Maine, Miss Kaia K. Beauvoir, and…”
“CWUNCHIE!!!!” Cwunchie interrupts happily.
Severa rolls her eyes.
Cleo rolls her eyes.
Kaia rolls her eyes.
Severa glares at Cleo.
Cleo glares at Kaia.
Kaia glares at Severa.
Yasmin smiles. “Madam Maine. Once and for all, can you tell us why you’re named after a state you’re not even from?”
“Oh! Haha.” Madam Maine laughs nervously, eyeing the cameras. “I really like Maine. I have a French Canadian aunt who lives up there.”
“French Canada? Is she related to French Montana?” Magenta asks.
“Oh…no.” Madam Maine smiles awkwardly.
“A lot of our viewers this season questioned whether you were totally ready for the Drag Race experience. What’s your take?”
“I will be honest. I wasn’t.” Maine flushes. “I don’t think that I totally understood the caliber of some of these performers, and…I was in such awe of them. I feel really lucky that I’ve gotten to know some of my castmates, including all the first outs before me. Jupiter and Princesita especially, I really feel have shown me love.”
“You’re a sweetheart, honey.” Princesita smiles. “I hope you get your chance to come back someday too.”
“Are we going to do that every few seasons? Because it’ll get old, QUICK.” Severa responds. “Twists are only twists if we don’t see them coming.”
“Agreed.” Kaia says.
Princesita frowns.
Yasmin looks at Kaia. “Kaia, you represented, I believe, our first instance of a child of Drag Race–that is, your drag mom, The Mother Delilah, competed on season 2.”
“That’s right.” Kaia nods, keeping one eye warily on Severa and Cleo. “As a trans woman, it was important to me to be part of a legacy of successful trans women.”
“Delilah was successful?” Severa half jests with a smirk. “I think there have been plenty of trans women on the show who were more successful.”
Lupe looks like she wants to say something, but doesn’t.
“Whatever, I’m proud to be a daughter of Miss Delilah regardless and even more proud of having a healthy and kind relationship with the woman who inspired my craft.” Kaia says haughtily. “Not all of us can say that after all.”
“Ooooooooo…” the room roars.
Severa makes a displeased face and shrugs.
“One question about your time on the show, Kaia.” Yasmin looks around. “Why do you, in particular, think you ended up going home so early? A lot of fans were very surprised.”
“I think it’s quite obvious that Cleo’s leadership in that challenge was disastrous for me and everyone else on it. I’d assume that Cleo’s current appearance reflects how people received her during this season.”
“You mean my gorgeous knockers?” Cleo shimmies.
“I mean, your cheap bra and panty set.” Kaia snaps. “And-”
“You’re so smug.” Cleo interrupts. “As if you have anything to be smug about. Not with that mug, you don’t, mate.”
“At least I can still afford my makeup.” Kaia shoots back.
Cleo huffs and crosses her arms.
“Cwunchie! You were a force of nature for a short time with us this season.” Yasmin looks nervous to even speak to Cwunchie.
“WOOOOOOHOOOOO!” Cwunchie yells. “This show did NOT disappoint! I–”
It then cuts to an ad break.
~
“Welcome back to the Chronologica’s Drag Race Season 5 Reunion! Onto, the infamous, Bates!” Yasmin smiles. “You had one of the most DRAMATIC moments, ever in history. Let’s look back.”
Bates grins as the cast turns to watch the TV screen.
~
Will the following-
Wait.
Everyone looks concerned. For a moment, the stage is perfectly still, as the judges and racers wait with uncertainty.
In the distance, sirens are heard. The sirens get closer. And closer.
Suddenly, a group of police officers in full riot gear burst into the room through a production door. Crew members and producers look shocked and frantic. The police officers are led by a stern-faced man with a badge that reads "Officer Jeffery," who steps forward, his hand gripping a pair of handcuffs.
What?
Office Jeffrey points directly towards the racers. Everyone looks to see who he’s pointing at.
Bates stares back at the officer expressionless, blood still dripping from their look.
"Mahdi Hakimian?” The police officers crowd onto the stage towards Bates.
“Oh my god.” Magenta gasps.
Princesita starts to say something, and Jupiter reaches over to cover Princesita’s mouth.
“Yes.” Bates gulps.
Officer Jeffery reaches towards Bates. “Turn around and place your hands behind your back.”
Bates stands silently, his face expressionless.
“I am placing you under arrest in connection with the murders of Javad Tahmasb, Hamidreza Entezami, Mohamad Askari, Mostafa Shahi, Ali Reza Arjmand, Arman Nousari, Elahe Nousari, Setareh Tarokh, and Mohammed Tarokh."
Magenta falls to the ground in her bra and panty set, as everyone looks in stunned silence.
Bates slowly raises their hands as the police officers move closer, handcuffing them.
Everyone looks in disbelief. The judges look shocked and horrified.
“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.”
Bates looks at Apocalyptica, still expressionless, and speaks softly. “Christian…I’m sorry.”
“You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. Do you understand these rights?”
Bates gives a nearly imperceptible nod.
Apocalyptica’s eyes well with tears. “Batesy?”
~
“Traumatic.” Apocalyptica looks at Bates, who exhales.
“To explain this….” Yasmin looks over. “Rachelle Mirage!”
Rachelle walks in with a smile.
“You two have worked hard together- tell us, what happened?!”
“I am, as we’d all know, originally from Iran. And- I knew it was a risk.” Bates exhales. “And they found out, and tried to have me extradited back from the US, for an alleged murder.”
“You killed someone?” Magenta gasps.
“A set up. Some of my former schoolmates had reported to the government that I had been cast here. So they falsified police records to make it look like I had done something which… was just because I, a Queer person, was representing the country in a way that didn’t match their… image.” Bates nods.
“Then comes… me.” Rachelle grins. “I could not let this happen.”
“Thank you, Rachelle.” Bates smiles.
“I felt something was off. And, I served as a character witness in the International Criminal Court, where… Eventually, after little evidence, we were able to not only have this gorgeous artist freed- but, I pulled some strings…”
“And I am now living in Denver.” Bates responds, holding Apocalyptica’s hand.
“What a shocking story.” Yasmin smiles. “And Apocalyptica, I must ask- are you two…?”
“We live literally across the street from each other.” Apocalyptica smiles.
The two grin.
“Now next up! She was one of our famous RETURNEES- Ms Cleo Mertoris, who won her first challenge- then proceeded to go home. Cleo, how did you feel about your journey?”
“I think… I should’ve gone much further than I did, to be honest.” Cleo shrugs.
“Girl...” Severa stares at Cleo for a few seconds. “You deserve exactly what you got- because you weren’t talented enough to survive a lipsync.”
“Not Miss ‘Double Sashay’ talking.” Cleo gasps. “At least I could pay for my tits myself, and not resort to sugar daddies huh Sevvie… Fucking bitch!” In a flash, Cleo, angrily standing, throws her drink onto Severa, who yelps.
In a flash, Yasmin tries to pull Cleo away from Severa, but Cleo does her best to claw at Severa.
“The fuck?” Jupiter yells.
“Don’t fucking call me Sevvie ever again!” Severa yells, scrubbing at her ruined dress and crying while subtly drinking the cocktail on her face.
“I’ll call you whatever I fucking want! Coming for my fucking gig!” Cleo shrieks.
“Let’s stop this-” Yasmin raises her hand.
Cleo spits at Severa. “Fuck you, fucking whore. You only transitioned to copy me! I MADE YOU! I-”
“WE’RE GOING TO ANOTHER BREAK!” Yasmin yells.
~
Severa tries to shake cocktail out of her wet wig.
Lupe covers her mouth with one hand. Kaia is laughing.
Nymphe suddenly stands and aggressively wrings out Severa’s wig, as Severa winces.
“Well!” Yasmin says sharply. “Are you okay, Severa?”
“I’m fine.” Severa huffs, bent over as Nymphe wrings her wig out. “I started my transition because, since the season aired, I came to terms with a lot about myself. Including how some of my behavior on the season was…rash. I’ve definitely been hiding from this moment. And Cleo has nothing to do with it.”
Lupe apologetically speaks up. “Pienso que, Severa, that Cleo might just be jealous of you.”
“You know it, mami.” Severa sighs. “I also really want to express some sincere apologies to you.”
Lupe looks startled.
“I think that with our time on the show, I was often jealous of you. Unlike me, or Cleo, or Kaia, you have been confidently living in your womanhood for a long time. I’ve followed you for a long time…and I fucked up.” Severa nods. “I am sorry.”
“I accept your apology, darling.” Lupe smiles. “It’s all I ever needed.”
“Now, these two were our OTHER, non finalist returnees, and both have… wild journeys.” Yasmin smiles.
“Non finalist.” Princesita frowns.
“You did good, Mami.” Lupe smiles. “I know it was hard…”
“I lip synced- a lot.” Princesita nods. “And it was hard.” Princesita begins to tear up. “Because, I believed I could do better, you know?”
Magenta holds Princesita’s hand.
“But- you must keep going. You can never push yourself too far, and maybe this wasn’t my journey. I think… I think I've accepted that now.” Princesita sighs.
“Regardless of how it ends, know that you should be proud of yourself, girl.” Kaia shrugs. “Like, we can’t all win.”
“Like me.” Starzanne jokes.
Nobody laughs.
“Well, turning to you, Starzanne, you had a controversial moment this season, in your makeover moment….” Starzanne turns. “How did it feel, watching it back?”
“I feel bad.” Starzanne closes her eyes. “And… I’m learning, I’m working on what I know, how to do it better, how to…” Starzanne sighs. “Do more than what I did, and truly, I feel shame.”
“I kinda think it’s bullshit.” Severa looks at Starzanne. “Because I think you knew better.”
Ambrose and Briar nod in agreement.
“HOWEVER…” Severa shrugs. “Good for you.”
Starzanne pouts, before nodding. “I aim to really deliver, I p-promise.”
The others look uncertain.
Bates sighs. “As the Middle Eastern refugee here, I can’t speak for Mohammed, who it’s obvious you really hurt and mistreated…and I hope he never has to see or work with you again. Because I hope you do learn, Starzanne. But also know the work is on you, not people of color.”
Severa gulps.
“Moving onto a power couple, or power ex-couple, this season. Briar and Ambrose…”
Jupiter woofs.
“How are we going since the season?” Yasmin asks.
“We’ve reconciled.” Ambrose looks at Briar with a knowing glance.
“I think both of us felt intense pressure this season.” Briar nods. “We both wanted to exist separate, but were so intrinsically tied to each other…”
“Ultimately I did think it led to our failure.” Ambrose sighs. “And- that’s fair, because it was a lesson to learn.”
“The lesson, being?”
“We are powerful- together.” Ambrose smiles, holding hands. “But, we believe it’s important to make space.”
“So, where does that mean for you now?” Yasmin asks. “The both of you.”
The two look at each other.
“We’re creating space, yet, collaborating.” Ambrose nods. “And-”
“They’re fucking again, BUT not doing duo gigs. Only attending gigs together.” Magenta chuckles.
Everyone gasps.
“Well… true.” Briar shrugs.
“Now, finally- the shocking moment… right before the semi final.” Yasmin nods. “Let’s look.”
~
I’ve made my decision.
Jupiter Sterling, Shantay you stay.
“Thank you.” Jupiter exhales. “Thank you.”
Severa closes her eyes, whispering to herself. “Severa, shantay…”
Severa and Magenta Leigh Simmons…
The others look on.
Thank you for being here, and doing great work this season. Now, I must say… sashay away.
“Damn!” Magenta yells, as Chronologica chuckles.
Everyone in the back of the stage look flabbergasted.
“No, thank you for this.” Magenta bows.
Severa looks at the judges for a split second, before walking off without a word.
“...Damn!” Magenta says again, as the others laugh. “I’m strutting off with GRACE.”
Magenta raises her hands in the air, as she walks off with a cheer.
~
“First, you- Severa, how are you feeling with time?” Yasmin asks.
“I feel as if that’s a different girl. Kinda. She’s thinking she’s giving nothing, not caring- but she cares too much, she’s lost that war. I think of myself as effortlessly fierce- but I did get stressed. I wish I… walked off and stomped the stage.” Severa sighs. “Instead of that.”
“And that’s okay, because we all- get there, sometimes.” Princesita says. “It’s about what you do next.”
“I’m going to win, girl.” Severa jokes. “They gotta make another All Stars so this diva can take the title.”
Everyone chuckles.
“Magenta, how did you feel, about being the other half?”
“I am happy, because if I’m being damn honest, I didn’t expect to make it this far!” Magenta laughs. “And I was me the whole damn time.”
“I love you for being you.” Jupiter adds. “You’re real, Ms Simmons. We honor that.”
“And not everyone can say that.” Nymphe smirks.
Apocalyptica grips Bates' hands.
“Now, it’s time for us to celebrate… some titles.” Yasmin smiles. “First, our GOLD BOOT title of the Season- ugliest outfit. Winner of a $5000 grand prize….”
…
Starzanne Stripes and September Remembers arrive in what else, but red, white, and blue. September looks patchy- his face is painted red, white and blue, in an attempt to cover his beard. Starzanne and September are both wearing fringe dresses that look straight out of a car wash, and it’s the epitome of… awkward.
“Starzanne!”
Starzanne chuckles, grabbing the trophy.
“Anything to say, Starzanne?”
“I am now wearing a lot LESS red, white and blue.” Starzanne nods.
The others awkwardly chuckle.
“Now, our title of SHADE- The Shadiest C.U.N.T this season.” Yasmin smiles. “Can I have a drumroll?”
“Cleo?” Severa looks over at the empty seat laughing.
“SEVERA!” Yasmin cheers. “Condragulations, you’ve won $10,000!”
Severa chuckles, grabbing the sash. “Thank you,I’d like to thank Cleo, Alcohol, and the rest of you for being too boring to get confessionals!”
Lupe laughs dramatically.
“I’d say I’m surprised, but I’m not!”
Everyone laughs.
….
“Finally, MY successor.” Yasmin smiles. “This year, the Congenial title will win $20,000, sponsored by Virtue Beauty.”
Everyone looks excitedly.
“The Winner is… MAGENTA LEIGH SIMMONS!” Yasmin cheers, as everyone starts clapping.
“Yes, yes!” Magenta cheers, as Yasmin puts the sash on her.
“Do you have anything to say, my Queen?”
“I-” Magenta smiles. “Damn.”
Everyone cheers.
“She’s finally out of things to say everybody!” Kaia laughs.
“Ugh…” Apocalyptica whimpers, wiping her eyes, as the others look over.
“Popsicle, are you okay?” Lupe asks.
“I’m- I’m fine.” Apocalyptica sighs. “I just- am really happy for Magenta.”
Magenta smiles.
“Bullshit.” Nymphe looks over.
The room is quiet.
“You expected this win, and again, you’re inauthentic, you’re lying, and you’re not owning up to when you want something.” Nymphe responds.
“I-” Apocalyptica tears up, holding onto Bates. “I-”
“I do have a question to ask, actually, as the crowned Ms SHADE.” Severa smirks. “Ms, Popsicle- we noticed your lack of presence at the crowning. You weren’t at any of the cast parties we held to celebrate or any of the events we planned, so what’s really up?”
Nymphe looks over.
“What happened?”
“I didn’t feel up to it. I was a bit sad, and I really did want to be there- but I-I felt physically ill, and…”
“Bullshit, again.” Severa rolls her eyes.
“Alright, you guys can have your opinions on everyone’s actions, but we don’t need to gang up on her.” Bates says, raising their voice a little..
“I don’t know what any of you mean…” Apocalyptica sighs. “I just-”
“You wanted to win, so you’re bitter. You kept denying it- but clearly, you positioned yourself in a way to do well. And you lost. So, why not own up to it?” Nymphe asks.
“Ugh, Can you go fuck yourself?” Apocalyptica snaps.
“Woah.” Magenta says.
Everyone looks spooked.
“Popsicle… You don’t have to acknowledge them…” Bates whispers.
“Of course I wanted to win.” Apocalyptica exclaims loudly. “I wanted to prove alt drag, to prove myself, and I don’t think that trying to be nice while doing so is a sin. ” Apocalyptica says. “LIKE-”
“Because you weren’t being real.” Severa looks at Apocalyptica. “Not the sweet girl who always happens to copy others.”
“I- You can think whatever you want. I…Actually I’m not going to continue to engage with this narrative.” Apocalyptica stutters as she turns to hold onto Bates.
“If you owned being unoriginal, maybe you’d have won.” Nymphe shrugs.
“Okay hold up- I’m mad she didn’t show up to our get togethers either but unoriginal?” Kaia inserts herself into the conversation. “We all get inspired and learn and take notes from others, like that’s the point of drag families, Delilah taught me so much, does that make me unoriginal? Have none of us ever felt inspired after seeing a good drag show or look?”
“I learned a lot from everyone in my short time here, my drag has changed a lot from all of you.” Madame Maine smiles.
“Girl, there’s a difference between being inspired and trying to steal my signature move the week after I leave.” Severa turns back at Kaia and Madame Maine.
“And were you the first to ever do that move? You came up with it with absolutely no influence from anyone else.” Apocalyptica bites.
“I don’t remember getting any credit or even a shoutout.” Severa stares at Popsicle.
“Do you give credits to who helped teach you how to dip every time you do it?” Apocalyptica retorts. “Whatever, i'm just so over this conversation.”
“Cool.” Nymphe bluntly states.
Apocalyptica rolls her eyes. “Cool.”
A couple of seconds pass of silence.
“Well, thank you all for a lovely season.” Yasmin smiles breaking the tension. “Now, before we go… Here's a sneak peak of SEASON 6 of Chronlogica’s DRAG RACE, coming soon!”
~
This has been… magic.
“It sure has.” Nymphe nods, sipping her pink tea. “But the magic… lives on and continues, as does the journey of the forest. It is… eternal.”
It's magic, you know…
Thirteen figures flash, as someone grabs a potion labeled ‘IMMUNITY’.

I like to do wrestling related book reports, and in the past, this sub responded really well to my posts. Again, though, if y'all feel like this isn't the kind of content for this sub, let me know, and I'll post elsewhere.
Very, very short book that didn't detail too much, with a large portion being Billy just ranting on the history of wrestling or fighting.
As always, I attempted to keep to chronological order of events, even though Billy didn't tell a lot of this in order, and he never dated any story.
(Note: the number of guys named "Billy" in this post is just unreal and gave me a headache)
Billy describes how his dad, grandfather, uncle, and great-grandfather were all world-class boxers or fighters. He says his father taught him a ton of things to do in a fight and even underhanded tactics, like using a pencil to defend himself. Billy says a 4H pencil had the toughest lead that you could sharpen out and use as a weapon. The best part was that it wasn't classified as a weapon, so you could avoid the jail time that came with having knives.
Billy describes running home from school as 3 boys chased him. When he got home, crying, his dad asked him what was going on. After Billy explained, his dad said, "You can either fight the 3 of them or fight me." Billy chose the 3 boys, and his dad went with him to make sure the fights were 1 on 1. After Billy beat up the 1st two kids, the third one wanted none of it. Billy says this was the first time he saw his dad was proud of him.
Billy dreamed of being a pro boxer, but one day, as a child, he was struck in the eye by a metal sign that some other kids were playing with and severely tore his retina. He spent 6 weeks in the hospital, and his boxing dreams were over.
Billy's uncle wanted him to try out pro wrestling because it was popular in the 60s, but Billy's dad wanted him to do amature wrestling, though it wasn't as lucrative as pro wrestling. Eventually, Billy was brought to a local YMCA where he started to train amature.
Before long, Billy's dad relented and took him to Billy Riley's gym, the same place that Karl Gotch trained and that Dynamite Kid would go train at as well. Billy even met John Foley there, who would go on to be a feared shooter and manage Dynamite Kid in Stampede Wrestling. Though if that's the only place you know John Foley from, then you won't have a high opinion of him.
John Foley was a legit bad ass shooter for most of his career, who was known to take liberties with guys. By the time he got to Stampede Wrestling, though, he was an old timer who was more known as a drunk who everyone ribbed. One story suggests where he lost his nerve, and that would be the time he was being a little too physical in the ring with Lanny and Randy Poffo, prompting their dad Angelo came to the ring, and all 3 Poffo men beat the living shit out of Foley. Bret Hart says he "never lived it down."
Billy says the best match he ever saw was a "friendly" sparring contest between Jack Dempsey and John Foley that left both men with black eyes, broken noses and blood coming out of their ears and mouths. Billy says they were still close friends after.
Billy calls shoot fighting/grappling "physical chess," and he spent 12 years learning this at Reilly's Gym, also known as the Snake Pit.
Billy learned "catch-as-catch-can" (or Greco-Roman) wrestling in The Snake Pit from Charlie Carrol.
Charlie Carrol was 55 years old and 155 pounds to Billy's 6 foot 2, 190 pound 17 year old, but Charlie hurt Billy every single time they sparred. Billy says that Charlie kept him humble.
Billy puts over modern MMA fighters but says the best modern MMA fighter couldn't hold a candle to a mediocre 1930s catch wrestler.
It's not a long book, but a significant section early on is just Billy going over the history of catch fighting and amateur wrestling all the way back to the 1800s. He complains that modern amateur wrestling is all about power and maneuvering for points and says he doesn't even watch the Olympics anymore. It's actually super fascinating as he details various amature techniques used in different Olympic competitions and where they originated from.
He tells a story of how when he was a teenager, his coach Billy Riley (who was 55 years old) would walk with him down the street and often try to grapple with Billy or show him some maneuver right there and Billy says people would stare at them like they were homosexuals and says it was so embarrassing. At the time, homosexuality was illegal in England.
Billy Robinson is critical of modern coaching, which he says consists of the coach giving a ton of positive feedback. Billy Robinson won multiple amature championship tournaments and bouts but never heard a good word from Billy Riley. When Billy Robinson won his first amature world title, he remembered Riley saying, "That was good." Riley would later explain that it wasn't his job to tell Robinson what was good, but it was his job to tell Robinson what was wrong and where he can correct himself. Interesting take on coaching.
In 1956, Billy placed 3rd at the nationals for amature wrestling. In 1957, he won the nationals tournament! Riley told Billy Robinson, "You've won all the cups and the medals. Why don't you take me out and buy me a steak dinner?" When Billy Robinson said he couldn't afford to, Riley said to him, "It just goes to show you kid, you can't buy steak with medals. It's time you turned pro."
Billy says he regrets not putting pro wrestling off another couple of years. He thinks he should have been amature wrestling in the Olympics. He beat everyone who eventually wrestled on the Brittish team, and he thought he could have won a medal.
Billy turned pro at 19 years old and was asked to help get pro wrestling going in Sweden. The problem was that the Sweden Olympic amature wrestling team wouldn't allow it unless the pros proved they were legit and could beat them in an amateur contest. Billy beat them all, including Alex Gronburg, a 2 time Olympic champion and former world champion, and Gosta Andersson, who quit after a minute, saying, "Hey, it's too dangerous for us."
Billy Robinson asked to go to Spain and wrestle for a new promotion, but as he was getting ready to leave, his coach Billy Riley warned him that if he worked for that company he would be black balled out of most major European wrestling companies. Robinson told Riley that he had given his word, and he said this was the first time he ever went against Riley's suggestion.
It didn't matter because Billy said the Spain promotion fizzled out before he even got there, but no one told him, and he flew to Spain for no reason.
He ended up staying in Spain, living with someone Billy referred to as "the English professor" who introduced him to people like Earnist Hemmingway and Sophia Loren and got Billy work in a movie
One day, the professor told Billy that his name was in the newspaper, and sure enough, Billy was being advertised in a new wrestling promotion. When Billy called them, he was informed that they had a job for him. For 2 years, 1960-1961, Billy wrestled in Spain and made a name for himself.
Billy would wrestle in tournaments and other tours during this time as well, in places like Germany and Belgium.
It was at these tournaments when Billy started noticing guys wanting to train with him and only him. Billy days. "It was odd!"
Billy loved zoos and had opinions on the good ones. He says he could spend all day just watching gorillas
Billy says he didn't like France much, saying that compared to places like Germany, Switzerland, and Austria, France was pretty dirty and gross back then.
Billy seems to have loved Lebanon the most, and being a huge history buff, Billy goes on a tangent about the history of Lebanon.
Billy wrestled in India in 1962, and on the way back, he stopped in Lebabon right before a war broke out, and he had to quickly escape.
Billy says his father told him that he should pretend to not know English when traveling and not be identified as an English speaking person. He said this advice helped him his whole life while traveling.
The first time Billy got to India, he was shocked at the poverty and state of it. He remembers seeing dead animals all over the place and people sleeping in the streets among rats. Billy also puts over India and a big wrestling country and said he had a good time there.
Billy says he was fortunate to wrestle the original Dara Singh. Dara Singh was a huge name in India, and he eventually went to prison for killing 3 men. He did it because those 3 men killed his brother, so it was a revenge killing. Years later, he would be pardoned and released. This is when Billy beat him in India.
In India, it was legitimately against the law for a Muslim to wrestle against a Hindu, so the Muslim community "adopted" Billy Robinson as their guy to fight the Hundu guys. It's pretty fascinating imo.
After India, Billy wrestled in Napal and said he had a great time, even wrestling private matches for the King of Napal.
While in Napal, Billy was ribbed into approaching a live leopard and says it was the first time in his life that he ever felt fear.
Billy even helped some Americans set up a play for the King of Napal, where Billy was the stage manager and even took a couple of bumps on the hard wood floor. He says the King loved it so much that he called for an encore, so Billy had to do the painful bump again.
Billy recalls one time in Napal, a local accidently hit and killed a cow with his truck. Since cows were sacred, the man was killed right there, and his body hung from a lamppost.
While in Germany wrestling a tournament that was cross promoting with a ten pin bowling competition, Billy met his future wife Ursula. She was working on the bowling side and Billy on the wrestling side. Billy says when their eyes first locked, he was in the ring, and she was in the front row. Billy says, "It was the beginning of the end, for my single days." 18 months later she came to England and they got married.
Billy says he played some charity bowling games against the Beatles in the early 60s.
Dave Ruhl was an extremely popular face in Stampede Wrestling out of Calgary, and through his uncle Ray Steele, Dave got ahold of Billy and invited him to Calgary Billy says Stampede promoter Stu Hart saw Billy wrestle one match and then invite Billy to come to Stampede Wrestling.
While backstage at one of his first Stampede shows, he saw a bunch of big gues in the dressing room talking. Through eavesdropping, he heard them talking about football and asked them if they were wrestlers or football players. They said football players, and so Billy insisted they leave the dressing room. Things got tense and heated, but eventually, Billy made it clear that if they didn't leave, he would remove them. He says they all scurried out of the room and notes that one of them was a young Wayne Coleman, the future "Superstar" Billy Graham.
After reading Billy Graham's book, it's clear that these two fucking hated eachother, with Graham calling Billy a bully who took liberties with less experienced guys in the ring. In Graham's book, he details how poorly Robinson treated him when their paths crossed in Stampede Wrestling. Graham's book made no mention of Billy kicking him out of a locker room nor the supposed contract with Verne that forbade Robinson from hurting Graham.
Down the line when Billy came to Minnesota, Billy Robinson claimes that Billy Graham insisted that Verne write up a contract that prohibited Billy Robinson and Billy Graham from squaring up. I don't know the validity of this claim, but Billy Robinson says Billy Graham was so scared that he only came to Minnesota with the guarantee that Robinson wouldn't hurt him.
This claim about a contract and Graham refusing to work with Robinson, might come from the time in Minnesota when Graham opted out of working with him in favor of Wahoo McDaniel. One time they were matched up and Graham approached Robinson backstage and made a show of wrapping razor blades in his taped up hands, warning Robinson that if he attempted to shoot on him, that Graham would "shred you from your face to the tip of your toes." This is all from Graham's book, with Billy making no mention of it.
In Bruce Hart's book, he tells a story about how they had The Stomper penciled in to challenge NWA World Champion Dory Funk Jr, but they had The Stomper face Billy Robinson 2 weeks prior. The two meshed so poorly that it devolved into an ugly shoot, with the fans chanting boring at them. Eventually The Stomper left and got counted out, before getting to the back and telling Stu he is quitting. They had no choice but to put Robinson in his place, and while the match was amazing and Robinson would be a good face for Stampede at the time, even Bruce calls him a bully and finishes it by saying "here's not to you Mr Robinson, there is no place in Heaven for those who prey."
After Billy wrestled Dory Funk Jr in an 1 hour draw, and after Dory invited Billy to the States to wrestle.
Before heading over to the States full time, Billy did tours in England, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong and Australia where he won the World title for a company that Jim Barnett was promoting.
Billy met Jack Brisco in Australia, shortly after winning the world title there. Billy remembers there first match together, saying that Jack was trying to show off a little too much so Billy said he showed him a simple catch hold that put poor Jack in the hospital for a couple days! Billy says the 2 became friends and calls him a good amateur wrestler and great guy.
Jack Brisco was the one who first told Billy about "shoot wrestlers" in the States. Billy never heard the term before but says a shooter is just another word for catch wrestling.
Billy mentions a rib that Jack Brisco and Dick Murdoch played on him during that Australia tour. Dick introduced Billy to chewing tobacco and purposely misinformed Billy on how to enjoy it. Billy swallowed the juice and vomiting all over the place.
Another time, Jack and Billy were up in Billy's hotel room all night, talking holds and even practicing them on one another. It was middle of the night, so Billy was in his underwear when Jack asked him to go get the newspaper from down the hall. The second Billy got in the hallway, Jack locked him out and made Billy sneak back to his room a few floors up in just his boxers. Billy said this was the nicest hotel in Australia, too.
Billy says he got his first taste of American pro wrestling in Hawaii, where he wrestled for several months. Every single guy who writes a wrestling book inevitably ends up doing a tour in Hawaii.
It was in Hawaii where Billy met Verne Gagne, who was "wrestling" a tour there, but really, Verne was on vacation and wrestling as a means to vacation for free. A lot of guys did that with Hawaii back in the day.
Billy and Verne wrestled a tag team match together, and after Verne made sure to watch how Billy was as a singles wrestler. Verne asked Billy to come back to the mainland in 1972.
Verne even asked Billy to train his son Greg, and they ended up inviting several other guys to a small wrestling camp. The group consisted of Verne's son Greg, Ric Flair, Ken Patera, Jim Bunzell (who would later team with Ken in AWA and be one half of the Killer Bee's in the WWE), Bob Bruggers (a former Miami Dophins linebacker), and Hossien Khosrow Vaziri (the future Iron Shiek).
An infamous story happened at this camp, early on, Shiek was the only one of the 6 who had amateur experience, and one day he was boasting to the others about how neither Verne or Billy could get him on his back in an amateur bout. Billy heard about this and challenged him immediately to spar. Shiek was successful in holding his stance on his knees, with Billy unable to turn him. So Billy viciously dropped his knee into Shiek's thigh, fucking him up bad. Then Billy casually rolled Shiek over and said "told you I could flip you."
Billy acknowledges Sheik as a very good amateur but says he has a big head a big mouth. He knew Shiek wasn't familiar with catch-as-catch-can, ankle submissions, neck cranks or double wristlocks and took advantage of him. Billy just casually says "I knelt on his thigh in a way we do. He couldn't walk for two days and couldn't work out at the camp for two weeks."
Billy remembers a match he did early on working for Verne, where a fan in the front row was being obnoxious and screaming at Billy all match. After the bout, Billy went and picked the fan up out of his seat and smacked him a few times and notes how the fan stayed quiet the rest of the show. When he got to the back he was chewed our by Verne who was afraid of a lawsuit. Billy says the fan ended up getting tickets to a future show.
In the middle of the book he goes on a rant about the history of how wrestling started in carnival tents and how champions made money. He calls Gorgeous George a "carnie wrestler" and credits him for accelerating the change in how the general audience looks at pro wrestlers. He resents the sentiment that all wrestlers are showmanship guys and puts over himself and others like Lou Thesz as legit tough guys. Billy is always putting over his skills as catch fighter in the book.
Billy says he and Lou Thesz became pretty good friends.
Billy says Lou Thesz would call Ed "Strangler" Louis as the best wrestler of all time, while Billy says he would call Billy Joyce the best of all time. But he says that Billy Joyce said that George Gregory was the best of all time.
Billy describes one time he wrestled Verne Gagne with Lou Thesz as the special referee. Billy says that he and Verne weren't getting along at this point, so throughout the match, Billy was sorta abusing Verne and taunting him the whole time. Billy says he kept turning to Lou and saying "Look at this Lou!" And "What do you think of this Lou?" As he took advantage of Verne. Eventually Lou piped up and said, "Jesus Billy, take it easy on him, he is the boss."
Ed "Strangler" Louise had an "open" contract, meaning that if you were matched up against him and wanted to shoot, Ed encouraged it. What a badass.
John Pesek was a wrestler with legit Olynpic credentials. John Pesek decided to shoot on Ed Lewis when Ed was very sick and had boils all over. It was a hard fight but Ed won. Lou Thesz resented Pesek for attempting this and even had him black balled by the NWA later in his career. Lou never forgave John for shooting on Ed when Ed was sick and never admitted Pesek was talented in any way. Billy clarifies that John Pesek was legitimate in the ring and tells this story as a way to show Lou Thesz power back in those days.
Ben Assirati was a freakishly strong guy who was known as a legit street fighter. Billy says he was a masochist who not only liked to hurt people in the ring, but also liked to get hurt, himself. Ben Assirati tried to start a rival promotion in England, and was challenged to a legitimate shoot fight by promoters (and world class ass kickers) George Gregory and Billy Joyce, but Ben turned them down. Of course, when Lou Thesz was NWA Champion and touring through England, Ben made a big show of challenging him beforehand and even got the newspapers to print about it. On the night of the show, Lou had police block the entrance and not let Ben in the arena. Billy tells this story as if Lou was turning down Ben's challenge for the way he turned down Gregory and Joyce. But Billy really puts over Ben Assirati as a scary guy in the ring and says that people actually died in the ring with Ben. Wild claim that I couldn't back up online, though there are a ton of stories to speak on Ben's notorioty in the ring.
In Lou Thesz memoir, he stated that he challenged Ben first multiple times and Ben refused all of them
Billy says that when he first got to the States, Lou Thesz and Karl Gotch were close friends who respected one another. But something happened that led to the two refusing to speak to one another.
Billy says a lot of old timers were hot heads, and gives an example of when his son was born. Billy named him Spencer after Winston Churchill, but Karl Gotch got angry at this and said it should have been a powerful name like Thor or something silly. Billy says that he and Karl nearly came to blows in the street over this. So whatever fractured the relationship between Gotch and Thesz, it was probably minor and petty.
When talking about modern wrestlers, Billy always refers to them in quotations. Like in his book he says "pro wrestlers" as if he is air quoting when talking about modern guys.
Billy says a big difference between wrestling in America vs England was how much guys talked in the ring in America (called spots). Billy says this never happens over seas and says he didn't call spots verbally.
Another big difference is how pay structure worked. In America it was all based on the house and what the promoter felt you earned. Over seas, Billy says he and the promoter would sit alone and discuss the pay prior to the match. Ticket sales were irrelevant, you always got paid what you agreed to. He says America is where all the backstabbing and politicking started in wrestling.
Billy says Danny Hodge was probably one of the most dangerous guys from his time wrestling and puts him over as one ofthe greatest American wrestlers ever.
Billy describes an interesting concept for wrestling promoters back in his day. Every promoter had what he called a "policman" wrestler. When a new guy came in and wanted to challenge the top draw, he would face this "policman" wrestler as the top draw or promoter watched closely. For example, if you were looking to challenge Lou Thesz, first you would face Ray Steele as Thesz watched and judged, then after he and Ray would talk about the guy together.
While working for Verne Gagne in the early 70s, Billy was asked to wrestle with a green as grass guy and Verne told Billy to go 10 minutes before he beat him. This baffled Billy and Verne had to explain its a taping and they need to put on a good show. Billy says he shouldn't have done that, especially considering how Verne would go on to screw with Billy's payoffs down the line.
Billy says he took the kid down at the 9 minute mark and stretched him, nearly breaking his elbow as he screamed and cried and tapped out. Billy says the guy gave an interview later and said pro wrestling is the nastiest and most dangerous sport there is. Billy chuckles at this but he took some rookie and killed any interest the kid had in wrestling while abusing him.
Billy tells a wild story about a short real fight he had with Peter Maivia in Japan. Billy, Peter and a few other guys were eating at a restaurant when Peter got upset at how the menu and ordering system worked. Peter got so worked up that Billy yelled at him to calm down. Later as Billy was walking towards his hotel, a drunk Peter Maivia approached Billy looking for a fight. Billy attempted to restrain him, telling Peter as he held him, "Peter stop it. I don't want to hurt you." But Peter in his enraged, drunken state goes to bite Billy in the neck! Billy, having been trained in self defense and combat like this, knew to tuck his chin to save his neck, but Peter still bit down hard and into Billy's face! Billy says he still had scars from this 40 or 50 years later! When blood started pouring down Billy's cheek, he snapped and laid out Peter with an unspecified number of strikes that left Peter with a broken nose and two black eyes. He says the fight lasted all of 15 seconds. Billy says he had to go to the hospital to get stitches and shot for a human bite.
The next morning, Billy nearly kicked Peter's door down and told Peter he is lucky to be alive. Billy points out how biting the neck is an attempt to kill him, so he gives Peter a chance to try again. A very sober Peter backed down immediately
Billy says he saw an interview on Tv where The Rock claimed that Peter Maivia bit Billy's eye out and he needed surgery. Billy refutes this claim and says the only eye surgery he ever had was when he was a kid.
Billy says a lot of guys would spar once or train once with someone and then spend their whole career saying they were trained by that person. He gave an example of one time, Bill Watts called him up asking about Johnny Eagles, who said he trained at Billy's gym. Billy had a good laugh because Eagles stopped by his gym one time to borrow money.
Billy often goes on tangents or rants about bullies and how much he hates them. He calls them cowards who always back down when challenged. I guess that's why he doesn't see himself as a bully, while almost everyone who came up after him clarifies him as the biggest bully they ever met. I've read several, several dozen wrestling book, and only 1 guy didn't have anything bad to say about Billy. That was Dynamite Kid, who didn't have anything nice to say about Billy either. He was just the only guy to bring up Billy Robinson and not rant about how awful of a person he was.
If the only guy to not have a negative story about you in Dynamite Kid, then you may be an asshole imo.
Billy says he was AWA World Heavyweight Champion for 24 hours "until they changed the decision on me." I'm not a big AWA buff so if anyone knows this story I would like to hear it.
Billy briefly mentions the Gagne produced movie in 1974 movie, "The Wrestler" but unfortunately Billy has no tales from the set or stories about it at all. Billy alongside Dusty Rhodes and Dick Murdoch all appeared in the film.
One time while in Alberta wrestling for Stampede, Billy was invited along with a couple other wrestlers to have dinner with the Primier of Alberta (like a State Governor) and at the event Billy was asked to join the premieres wife in the morning. So when the wife reminded Billy about coming by at 8am the next morning, Billy used British slang in response and said "Yes, I'll come knock you up at 8 o'clock tomorrow." Poor Billy had to explain that where he's from, someone waking you up in the morning by knocking on your door is a knocker upper.
Billy calls Canadian wrestler George Gordienko the strongest wrestler he ever got in the ring with. George Gordienko was originally hoping to be a doctor before becoming an exceptionally successful wrestler and someone who Lou Thesz once called one of the best of all time. Gordienko has been lost to time for the most part since he was banned from the United States during the McCarthy era. George married a woman who was the head of a communist party in America and poor George never got to return. He continued to wrestle in the UK until a bad ankle injury forced him to retire. He pivoted again and became a pretty succesful artist. Super fascinating story imo.
Over in Japan, Karl Gotch was working for Giant Baba in the Japan Pro Wrestling Alliance and their competition, the International Wrestling Enterprise contacted Billy Riley and asked who was the best catch wrestler available to counter Gotch, who was doing big business for JWA. Riley immediately suggested Robinson, who was quickly invited to Japan for the IWE.
Karl and Billy were friends but working for rival promotions in Japan, so they could only meet and get together in secret.
Billy ended up winning the World title for the IWE and they asked him to move his family to Japan long-term.
Billy wasn't having a good time coaching the young Japanese guys and complained to Karl Gotch that it seems like their minds are elsewhere. Karl advised Billy to hurt one of them to get them in line. Billy refused and said he was their coach, he wasn't supposed to hurt them. This is wild to hear from Billy, who's entire reputation among the next generation was that he was a bully who liked to hurt people.
A week later Billy got caught in a snowstorm after fighting with his wife, so he was in a bad mood as he walked into the gym to train the young guys. One of them mouthed off so Billy says he lined them all up and wrestled each of them into submission. He calls it an accident, bit says he ended up breaking one of their arms that day and after that all the young guys took everything more seriously and treated Billy with more respect and admiration.
Billy seems to have mixed feelings on his time in Japan since he did well and early on was treated well by promoters. He said in Japan if you have something someone needs, you're a God in their eyes and your treated as such. He says if you need something from someone though, they always make it clear that they are in charge and treat you poorly. He says he and Karl both started to really resent the culture there towards the end of their runs in Japan.
It was after or near the end of his Japan tour that Billy and his wife got divorced. He doesn't expand on it in any way in his book. Barely gets a passing mention.
In the mid-70s Billy was in rough shape, his drinking was out of control and his knee was beyond fucked. Billy started working odd jobs outside the wrestling business, including a security job gig in Las Vegas where he was training other security guards and he managed a gas station in Minnesota. Billy calls this the lowest point of his life and says the gas station job was the most boring thing he ever did in his life.
Antonio Inoki contacted Billy when he was running the gas station and invited him to Japan for a big celebration show where they would have a match. Billy doesn't speak highly of the match and says he just had knee surgery and could barely get in the ring, but if you look up reports on his 1975 match with Inoki, all you see is massive, massive praise and people calling it one of the best matches ever at the time.
Billy calls Inoki the best Japanese wrestler of all time.
Yuko Miyato of The Union of Wrestling Forces International (UWFI) contacted Billy and sent him to Nashville to train guys to go to Japan for them and Billy says between himself and Karl Gotch, every wrestler they trained went on to be world champions. Billy lists Shigeo Miyato and Nobuhiko Takada as examples.
Billy says Yuko Miyato "really saved me." Billy says he was drinking excessively and gained a ton of weight after the divorce, and that his knees and hips had to be replaced. Billy says his nervous system was fucked up from all the years of grappling and he couldn't effectively train anymore. He got a 2nd life back in Japan and even became the head coach at his old Snake Pit gym after Riley passed away in 1977. Billy says he ended spending 15 years in Japan training the next generation of catch/mma fighters.
Billy talks about the difference in training Japanese guys compared to others, since Japanese guys are more scientific and teach techniques down to the specificity. Billy didn't teach like that, he taught concepts and ideas that anyone could use on anyone else. He struggled to get some guys over the "belt system" in Japan where a brown belt guy would never challenge a black belt guys. Billy says anyone can beat the best, regardless of their belt.
Near the end of the book, Billy again rants about modern guys and how they know one or two moves and consider themselves catch style wrestlers. Billy also rants again about bullies and how you don't train people by taking advantage of them. (Tell that to Iron Sheik) Billy cites Verne Gagne as an example of a guy who didn't know how to spar or lock in submissions, and would train guys by exhausting them before he jumped on them and shot for a hold. Billy says he and Karl Gotch resented that and made sure their training camps were the opposite of that. It's funny because Billy literally did this stuff with Verne Gagne! Maybe he is implying that he learned then not to that stuff, but he doesn't outright say it. Billy as as guilty of bullying as the Verne imo.
Billy thinks modern MMA is shooting themselves in the foot for not having pinfalls. He says that fighting off your back is exciting and opens the door for more to be done. He says that when a guy is trying not to get pinned, he may leave an opening somewhere for the other guy to take advantage of.
Billy complains how modern boxers are looking for knockouts and training to knock people out. He says that's not how it's done, you fight and wait for the opening, Billy says you wait for the knockout to come to you, you don't go looking for it. He laments the same thing in submissions as well, saying you don't go looking to lock in a submission, you maneuver around and wait for the opening to present itself. You wait for the submission to come to you. He is extremely critical of modern "catch style" wrestlers/ fighters.
Billy is critical of modern wrestling and fighting having such short time limits, saying that short 2 or 3 minute rounds means that it's all about power.
The book ends with Billy ranting about modern fighters and amateur wrestlers and how Catch wrestling was the greatest sport of all time. I hope I love something as much as Billy loved catch-as-catch-can wrestling.

This week’s vintage batch feature’s Sheaffer’s Balance in the main, with no less than 9 Balances to choose from, including 6 strange birds from Canada with so-called “reverse trim” and 2 oversized Premiers in 2 of the scarcer colors. Gold-filled Snorkel set in box with papers thrown in for good measure. As always, all pens are fully restored and ready to write.
 
ALBUM & TIMESTAMP
 
Pastable link: https://imgur.com/a/L4ZMl5b
 
Condition (n.b.): All pens listed below have been disassembled, cleaned and restored with new sacs installed in the last couple weeks. Each of these pens is guaranteed to fill and write as designed without leaks or other problems. Nibs have been adjusted when necessary to ensure that all lay down a smooth and consistent line.
THESE PENS HAVE NO CRACKS, CHIPS, PERSONALIZATIONS, LOOSE OR MISSING PARTS, BENT NIBS, MISALIGNED TINES, BROKEN/WORN OFF TIPPING, OR THREADING ISSUES.
 
Line Widths and Writing Samples: To provide buyers with as much information as possible, I have started to adopt the following line width standards: XXF (.1-.2mm); XF (approx .3mm); F (approx .4mm); M (approx .6mm); B (approx .8mm). Nib flexibility is determined by variation (max line width under pressure) and softness (amount of pressure). Flexibility designations based on variation generally run as follows for an XF/F nib: Semi-Flex (approx. 1mm); Flex (1.2-1.9mm); Superflex (>2mm). All line width measurements are taken with a digital caliper but should be considered approximations providing a general guide. Width may vary slightly depending on type of ink and paper used as well as amount of pressure applied. All writing samples are on Rhodia dot paper using Waterman Serenity Blue.
 
 
NOTE: Pens #1-5 and #8-9 in this batch have been restored with silicone sacs to preserve their color. Some silicone sacs are known to cause ink to seep from the nib in certain conditions, e.g. when the pen is carried or isn’t stored nib-up. If this is a concern to you, I’d be happy to install a latex sac before shipment on request at no extra charge.
 
1. c.1936 Canadian Sheaffer Balance 5-30 (Golden Brown, celluloid, NPT, lever filler, 14k Two-Tone F nib). This full-length, standard girth model measures 5 7/16” capped. When one looks into the Balances produced by Sheaffer Canada at their Toronto factory in the 30s, things get weird and none of the usual rules apply. With the exception of the (always) slender Balance Junior, all known versions of the Golden Brown, Marine Green, and Carmine striated Balances in US catalogues have gold-plated trim. Yet this one and those to follow have nickel plating. It was common to refer to this as a “reverse-trim” model, which is true from the American standpoint yet perhaps presumptive for Canadian pens. All 4 striated colors are represented among these first 4 pens (Roseglow is a different pattern altogether). And the only nickel-plated US clip with a Sheaffer’s imprint had a flat ball while the balls of these clips are round. This is to say nothing of the two-toned "Made in Canada" nibs, which resemble a Feather Touch nib but are marked 5-30 (a marking phased out in the early 30s before the striated colors were introduced). All of this makes for a rather unusual group of pens, one that combines the most attractive trimmings of the Balance over the course of its production IMHO. So scarce is this pen and the next 5 that I'd be willing to bet you won't find another like them for sale on any online storefront. But all of this may register as little more than esoterica to anyone but the most devoted Sheaffer nut. In any case, these are very pretty pens for those who prefer white metal and they are all delightful writers. 14k two-tone Sheaffer Balance 5-30 nib lays down a smooth and consistent F line (see WRITING SAMPLE). Condition: near mint [B+]. These Canadian Balances (pens #1-6) come from my own collection, some 20 years in the making. I focused on pens with white metal trim and these Canadian models were the only striated Balances Sheaffer made with it (aside from the Grey pen below and some exceptionally rare, off-catalogue pens). They are the culmination of 2 decades hunting the best examples I could find. Accordingly, this pen is in museum-quality condition, like a time-capsule artifact. Nickel-plated trim, which was especially susceptible to brassing and corrosion, is pristine with no brassing and just a couple pin-sized spots of wear on the sides of the clip ball visible under a loupe. Celluloid has a smooth, lustrous surface with no deep scratches or other notable blemishes - scarcely even any microscratches. Ink-view window has yellow color and excellent transparency. Canadian manufacturer imprint with 1936 patent date on barrel is factory deep and fully legible. On their own, this pen and the following are unusual finds for the Sheaffer collector; to find these available together is downright rare. Price: $210 SOLD
 
2. c.1936 Canadian Sheaffer Balance 5-30 (Marine Green Striated, celluloid, NPT, lever filler, 14k Two-Tone F Stub nib). This full-length, standard girth model measures 5 1/2” capped. Everything mentioned about the aberrances of the Golden Brown pen above applies to this pen as well: you will not find a Marine Green striated Balance with nickel-plated trim in US catalogues. For more info about this unusual Canadian model with “reverse trim,” see the description of pen #1 above. 14k two-tone Sheaffer Balance 5-30 nib is a Factory Stub nib that lays down a smooth and consistent F line on the down-strokes and XF line on the cross-strokes (see WRITING SAMPLE). A nice nib for adding shading to one’s everyday writing. Condition: near mint [B+]. See description of pen #1 for the personal history of these first 6 pens. This pen is also in museum-quality condition. Nickel-plated trim, which was especially susceptible to brassing and corrosion, is pristine with no brassing or other notable blemishes. Celluloid has a smooth, lustrous surface with no deep scratches or other notable flaws - scarcely even any microscratches. Ink-view window has yellow color and excellent transparency. Canadian manufacturer imprint on barrel is only slightly weakened and still fully legible. Price: $230 SOLD
 
3. c.1936 Canadian Sheaffer Balance 5-30 (Grey Pearl Striated, celluloid, NPT, lever filler, 14k Two-Tone XF nib). This full-length, standard girth model measures 5 1/2” capped. For more info about this unusual Canadian model, see the description of pen #1 above. Unlike the other 3, Grey Pearl striated was made in the US with nickel-plated trim, but not like this with a full ball-clip stamped “Sheaffer’s.” 14k two-tone Sheaffer Balance 5-30 nib lays down a smooth and consistent XF line (see WRITING SAMPLE). Condition: near mint [B+]. See description of pen #1 for the personal history of these first 6 pens. This pen is also in museum-quality condition. Nickel-plated trim, which was especially susceptible to brassing and corrosion, is pristine with no brassing or other notable blemishes. Celluloid has a smooth, lustrous surface with no deep scratches or other notable flaws - scarcely even any microscratches. Ink-view window has orange color and excellent transparency. Canadian manufacturer imprint on barrel is factory deep and fully legible. Price: $190 SOLD
 
4. c.1940 Canadian Sheaffer Balance 5-30 (Carmine, celluloid, NPT, lever filler, 14k Two-Tone F Semi-Flex nib). This full-length, standard girth model measures 5 1/2” capped. Everything mentioned about the aberrances of the Golden Brown pen (#1 above) applies to this pen as well: you will not find a Carmine striated Balance with nickel-plated trim in US catalogues. Still more strangely, the desirable Carmine color was a latecomer, being introduced in 1940. So this pen has a 1940 color with an early 1930s model code and trim configuration. For more info about this unusual Canadian model with “reverse trim,” see the description of pen #1 above. Semi-Flexible 14k two-tone Sheaffer Balance 5-30 nib lays down a smooth and consistent F line that widens to a 2B or so (approx 1.1mm) under moderate pressure. A nice choice for adding subtle shading to everyday writing (see WRITING SAMPLE). Condition: excellent+ [B+]. See description of pen #1 for the personal history of these first 6 pens. Nickel-plated trim, which was especially susceptible to brassing and corrosion, is pristine with no notable blemishes aside from two short (approx 3mm) slivers of brassing on the side edges of the lever near the center visible under a loupe. Celluloid has a smooth, lustrous surface with no deep scratches or other notable flaws - scarcely even any microscratches. Ink-view window has yellow color and excellent transparency. Canadian manufacturer imprint on barrel is weakened but still fully legible under a loupe. Price: $250 SOLD
 
Bundle Price for #1-4: $750 (for posterity sake, it’d be nice to see these exceptionally well-preserved examples kept together in a Sheaffer collection)
 
5. c.1936 Canadian Sheaffer Balance 5-30 (Golden Brown, celluloid, NPT, lever filler, 14k Two-Tone XF nib). This full-length, standard girth model measures 5 1/2” capped. Everything mentioned about the aberrances of the Golden Brown pen (#1 above) applies to this pen as well. For more info about these unusual Canadian models with “reverse trim,” see the description of pen #1 above. This pen and the next are made still more unusual by virtue of their peculiar, WASP-like dagger clips that're known to crop up from time to time (WASP was a sub-brand of W.A. Sheaffer Pen Co.). 14k two-tone Sheaffer Balance 5-30 nib lays down a smooth and consistent XF line (see WRITING SAMPLE). Condition: excellent [B]. See description of pen #1 for the personal history of these first 6 pens. Nickel-plated trim, which was especially susceptible to brassing and corrosion, is clean aside from a peppering of wear to the top of the clip and cap band on the sides of the cap. Celluloid has a smooth, lustrous surface with no deep scratches or other notable flaws - scarcely even any microscratches. Ink-view window has yellow color and excellent transparency. Canadian manufacturer imprint on barrel is factory deep and fully legible. Price: $190 SOLD
 
6. c.1936 Canadian Sheaffer Balance 5-30 (Jet Black, celluloid, NPT, lever filler, 14k Two-Tone XF nib). This full-length, standard girth model measures 5 5/8” capped. Everything mentioned about the aberrances of the Golden Brown pen (#1 above) applies to this pen as well. For more info about these unusual Canadian models with “reverse trim,” see the description of pen #1 above. This pen is made still more unusual by virtue of its peculiar, WASP-like dagger clip that's known to crop up from time to time (WASP was a sub-brand of W.A. Sheaffer Pen Co.). 14k two-tone Sheaffer Balance 5-30 nib lays down a smooth and consistent XF line (see WRITING SAMPLE). Condition: excellent- [B-]. Nickel-plated trim, which was especially susceptible to brassing and corrosion, is clean aside from moderate brassing to the cap band and two short (approx 2-3mm) slivers of brassing on the side edges of the lever near the center visible under a loupe. Celluloid has a smooth, lustrous surface with no deep scratches or other notable flaws - scarcely even any microscratches. Ink-view window has amber color and decent transparency. Canadian manufacturer imprint with 1936 patent date on barrel is factory deep and fully legible. Price: $150 SOLD
 
7. c.1936 Sheaffer Balance Statesman (Golden Brown, celluloid, GPT, lever filler, 14k Two-Tone M “Waverly” nib). This full-length, standard girth model measures 5 1/2” capped. The Statesman was one step down in size from the oversized Balance Premier but was sold for the same price ($10.00). This one is made of Golden Brown striated celluloid complemented by gold-plated furniture. Streamlined radius clip, white dot signifying Sheaffer's lifetime guarantee, and transparent ink-view section window for checking ink level. 14k two-tone Sheaffer Lifetime nib has a slightly upturned point from the factory in the “Waverly” style to enhance smoothness (see DETAIL PHOTO). It lays down a smooth and consistent M line (see WRITING SAMPLE). Condition: near mint [B+]. Gold-plated trim is pristine with no brassing or other noteworthy blemishes. Celluloid has a smooth, lustrous surface with no deep scratches or other notable flaws - scarcely even any microscratches. Ink-view window has orange color and excellent transparency. Manufacturer imprint on barrel is factory deep and fully legible. Price: $240 SOLD
 
8. 1934-5 Sheaffer Oversized Balance Premier (Grey Pearl w/ Red Veins, celluloid, GPT, lever filler, 14k Two-Tone F/M nib). This oversized model has a thick girth and measures 5 9/16” capped. This pen is made of celluloid in a color patten consisting of grey pearl marble interspersed with brilliant red veins. Made for just 4 years from 1931-5, it’s one of the most difficult OS Balance colors to track down (this is the first I’ve ever offered in 20 years of sales). And it’s especially tough to find clean since it was prone to discoloration, cracks, and destabilization of the plastic – flaws completely absent from this example. Gold plated trim including flat ball clip. White dot signifying Sheaffer's lifetime guarantee. 14k two-tone oversized Lifetime Balance nib lays down a smooth and consistent F/M line (see WRITING SAMPLE). Condition: excellent/excellent+ [B+]. Color is superb – evenly grey across barrel and cap. Gold-plated trim is exceptionally clean with no notable blemishes aside from a triangular spot of brassing on each side of the cap band (see timestamp photo) and typical spots on the sides of the clip ball. Thinning to the Rhodium plating on the nib. Celluloid has a smooth, lustrous surface with no deep scratches or other notable flaws - scarcely even any microscratches. No signs of crystallization or destabilization of the celluloid. Manufacturer imprint on barrel is factory deep and fully legible. Price: $630 SOLD
 
9. 1934-5 Sheaffer Oversized Balance Premier (Ebonized Pearl, celluloid, GPT, lever filler, 14k Two-Tone XF nib). This oversized model has a thick girth and measures 5 1/2” capped. Made of celluloid embedded with genuine abalone chips, Ebonized Pearl is one of the most sought after Balance colors. The chips of iridescent mother of pearl are a sight to behold in person, coruscating and refracting different colors under light. Oversized Balances are less common than smaller catalogued sizes but an OS Balance in Ebonized Pearl (made for only 5 years) is also tough to find. Gold-plated furniture including earlier, flat ball "Sheaffer's" clip. White dot on cap signifying Sheaffer's Lifetime guarantee. 14k two-tone oversized Lifetime Balance nib lays down a smooth and consistent XF line (see WRITING SAMPLE). Condition: excellent+ [B+]. Gold-plated trim is pristine with no brassing or other notable flaws. Celluloid has a smooth, lustrous surface with no deep scratches or other notable flaws – a couple pin-sized nicks but scarcely even any microscratches. Manufacturer imprint on barrel is factory deep and fully legible. Price: $590 SOLD
 
10. 1950s Sheaffer Snorkel Triumph Set in Box w/ Papers (GF, lined pattern, Snorkel filler, 14k Two-Tone XF nib). This full-sized model measures 5 9/16” capped. This matching FP and twist-activated MP set comes in its original factory box with leaflet with filling instructions: BOX1 BOX2. Less common gold-filled exterior with repeating 5-line pattern. Cartouche for engraving on barrel indicates this being a slightly later model (see Jim Gaston's excellent article on these and other details of the Triumph model here). The pen features Sheaffer's famous Rube Goldberg Snorkel filling system, which provides a clean fill even from the very bottom of the bottle since only the Snorkel tube needs to be submerged (see DETAIL PHOTO). To fill one: (1) turns the blindcap to fully extend the Snorkel tube; (2) pulls the blindcap back to fully extend the pump; (3) submerses the Snorkel tube in ink; then (4) depresses the blindcap back into the barrel with one smooth stroke. Two-toned triumph nib with upturned Waverly-style point lays down a smooth and consistent XF line (see WRITING SAMPLE). Typifies the smoothness and versatility of Sheaffer's upturned nibs. Condition: excellent+ [B+] Smooth, lustrous surfaces with no brassing, dents, dings, or notable blemishes to FP or MP apart from one dent on the top of the FP that can only be seen from the top – a very common flaw found on these GF models (see DETAIL PHOTO). All seals and sac were replaced and the pen now fills to factory capacity with no leaks and good pressure – shoots ink like a squirt gun if you’re feeling mischievous. MP is fully operational, propelling, retracting, and gripping lead as designed. Price: $260 SOLD
 
 
 
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Very, very short book that didn't detail too much, with a large portion being Billy just ranting on the history of wrestling or fighting.
As always, I attempted to keep to chronological order of events, even though Billy didn't tell a lot of this in order, and he never dated any story.
(Note: the number of guys named "Billy" in this post is just unreal and gave me a headache)
Billy describes how his dad, grandfather, uncle, and great-grandfather were all world-class boxers or fighters. He says his father taught him a ton of things to do in a fight and even underhanded tactics, like using a pencil to defend himself. Billy says a 4H pencil had the toughest lead that you could sharpen out and use as a weapon. The best part was that it wasn't classified as a weapon, so you could avoid the jail time that came with having knives.
Billy describes running home from school as 3 boys chased him. When he got home, crying, his dad asked him what was going on. After Billy explained, his dad said, "You can either fight the 3 of them or fight me!" Billy chose the 3 boys, and his dad went with him to make sure the fights were 1 on 1. After Billy beat up the 1st two kids, the third one wanted none of it. Billy says this was the first time he saw his dad was proud of him.
Billy dreamed of being a pro boxer, but one day, as a child, he was struck in the eye by a metal sign that some other kids were playing with and severely tore his retina. He spent 6 weeks in the hospital, and his boxing dreams were over.
Billy's uncle wanted him to try out pro wrestling because it was popular in the 60s, but Billy's dad wanted him to do amature wrestling, though it wasn't as lucrative as pro wrestling. Eventually, Billy was brought to a local YMCA where he started to train amature.
Before long, Billy's dad relented and took him to Billy Riley's gym, the same place that Karl Gotch trained and that Dynamite Kid would go train at as well. Billy even met John Foley there, who would go on to be a feared shooter and manage Dynamite Kid in Stampede Wrestling. Though if that's the only place you know John Foley from, then you won't have a high opinion of him.
John Foley was a legit bad ass shooter for most of his career, who was known to take liberties with guys. By the time he got to Stampede Wrestling, though, he was an old timer who was more known as a drunk who everyone ribbed. One story suggests where he lost his nerve, and that would be the time he was being a little too physical in the ring with Lanny and Randy Poffo, prompting their dad Angelo came to the ring, and all 3 Poffo men beat the living shit out of Foley. Bret Hart says he "never lived it down."
Billy says the best match he ever saw was a "friendly" sparring contest between Jack Dempsey and John Foley that left both men with black eyes, broken noses and blood coming out of their ears and mouths. Billy says they were still close friends after.
Billy calls shoot fighting/grappling "physical chess," and he spent 12 years learning this at Reilly's Gym, also known as the Snake Pit.
Billy learned "catch-as-catch-can" (or Greco-Roman) wrestling in The Snake Pit from Charlie Carrol.
Charlie Carrol was 55 years old and 155 pounds to Billy's 6 foot 2, 190 pound 17 year old, but Charlie hurt Billy every single time they sparred. Billy says that Charlie kept him humble.
Billy puts over modern MMA fighters but says the best modern MMA fighter couldn't hold a candle to a mediocre 1930s catch wrestler.
It's not a long book, but a significant section early on is just Billy going over the history of catch fighting and amateur wrestling all the way back to the 1800s. He complains that modern amateur wrestling is all about power and maneuvering for points and says he doesn't even watch the Olympics anymore. It's actually super fascinating as he details various amature techniques used in different Olympic competitions and where they originated from.
He tells a story of how when he was a teenager, his coach Billy Riley (who was 55 years old) would walk with him down the street and often try to grapple with Billy or show him some maneuver right there and Billy says people would stare at them like they were homosexuals and says it was so embarrassing. At the time, homosexuality was illegal in England.
Billy Robinson is critical of modern coaching, which he says consists of the coach giving a ton of positive feedback. Billy Robinson won multiple amature championship tournaments and bouts but never heard a good word from Billy Riley. When Billy Robinson won his first amature world title, he remembered Riley saying, "That was good." Riley would later explain that it wasn't his job to tell Robinson what was good, but it was his job to tell Robinson what was wrong and where he can correct himself. Interesting take on coaching.
In 1956, Billy placed 3rd at the nationals for amature wrestling. In 1957, he won the nationals tournament! Riley told Billy Robinson, "You've won all the cups and the medals. Why don't you take me out and buy me a steak dinner?" When Billy Robinson said he couldn't afford to, Riley said to him, "It just goes to show you kid, you can't buy steak with medals. It's time you turned pro."
Billy says he regrets not putting pro wrestling off another couple of years. He thinks he should have been amature wrestling in the Olympics. He beat everyone who eventually wrestled on the Brittish team, and he thought he could have won a medal.
Billy turned pro at 19 years old and was asked to help get pro wrestling going in Sweden. The problem was that the Sweden Olympic amature wrestling team wouldn't allow it unless the pros proved they were legit and could beat them in an amateur contest. Billy beat them all, including Alex Gronburg, a 2 time Olympic champion and former world champion, and Gosta Andersson, who quit after a minute, saying, "Hey, it's too dangerous for us."
Billy Robinson asked to go to Spain and wrestle for a new promotion, but as he was getting ready to leave, his coach Billy Riley warned him that if he worked for that company he would be black balled out of most major European wrestling companies. Robinson told Riley that he had given his word, and he said this was the first time he ever went against Riley's suggestion.
It didn't matter because Billy said the Spain promotion fizzled out before he even got there, but no one told him, and he flew to Spain for no reason.
He ended up staying in Spain, living with someone Billy referred to as "the English professor" who introduced him to people like Earnist Hemmingway and Sophia Loren and got Billy work in a movie
One day, the professor told Billy that his name was in the newspaper, and sure enough, Billy was being advertised in a new wrestling promotion. When Billy called them, he was informed that they had a job for him. For 2 years, 1960-1961, Billy wrestled in Spain and made a name for himself.
Billy would wrestle in tournaments and other tours during this time as well, in places like Germany and Belgium.
It was at these tournaments when Billy started noticing guys wanting to train with him and only him. Billy days. "It was odd!"
Billy loved zoos and had opinions on the good ones. He says he could spend all day just watching gorillas
Billy says he didn't like France much, saying that compared to places like Germany, Switzerland, and Austria, France was pretty dirty and gross back then.
Billy seems to have loved Lebanon the most, and being a huge history buff, Billy goes on a tangent about the history of Lebanon.
Billy wrestled in India in 1962, and on the way back, he stopped in Lebabon right before a war broke out, and he had to quickly escape.
Billy says his father told him that he should pretend to not know English and not be identified as an English speaking person. He said this advice helped him his while life while traveling.
The first time Billy got to India, he was shocked at the poverty and state of it. He remembers seeing dead animals all over the place and people sleeping in the streets among rats. Billy also puts over India and a big wrestling country and said he had a good time there.
Billy says he was fortunate to wrestle the original Dara Singh. Dara Singh was a huge name in India, and he eventually went to prison for killing 3 men. He did it because those 3 men killed his brother, so it was a revenge killing. Years later, he would be pardoned and released. This is when Billy beat him in India.
In India, it was legitimately against the law for a Muslim to wrestle against a Hindu, so the Muslim community "adopted" Billy Robinson as their guy to fight the Hundu guys. It's pretty fascinating imo.
After India, Billy wrestled in Napal and said he had a great time, even wrestling private matches for the King of Napal.
While in Napal, Billy was ribbed into approaching a live leopard and says it was the first time in his life that he ever felt fear.
Billy even helped some Americans set up a play for the King of Napal, where Billy was the stage manager and even took a couple of bumps on the hard wood floor. He says the King loved it so much that he called for an encore, so Billy had to do the painful bump again.
Billy recalls one time in Napal, a local accidently hit and killed a cow with his truck. Since cows were sacred, the man was killed right there, and his body hung from a lamppost.
While in Germany wrestling a tournament that was cross promoting with a ten pin bowling competition, Billy met his future wife Ursula. She was working on the bowling side and Billy on the wrestling side. Billy says when their eyes first locked, he was in the ring, and she was in the front row. Billy says, "It was the beginning of the end, for my single days." 18 months later she came to England and they got married.
Billy says he played some charity bowling games against the Beatles in the early 60s.
Dave Ruhl was an extremely popular face in Stampede Wrestling out of Calgary, and through his uncle Ray Steele, Dave got ahold of Billy and invited him to Calgary Billy says Stampede promoter Stu Hart saw Billy wrestle one match and then invite Billy to come to Stampede Wrestling.
While backstage at one of his first Stampede shows, he saw a bunch of big gues in the dressing room talking. Through eavesdropping, he heard them talking about football and asked them if they were wrestlers or football players. They said football players, and so Billy insisted they leave the dressing room. Things got tense and heated, but eventually, Billy made it clear that if they didn't leave, he would remove them. He says they all scurried out of the room and notes that one of them was a young Wayne Coleman, the future "Superstar" Billy Graham.
After reading Billy Graham's book, it's clear that these two fucking hated eachother, with Graham calling Billy a bully who took liberties with less experienced guys in the ring. In Graham's book, he details how poorly Robinson treated him when their paths crossed in Stampede Wrestling. Graham's book made no mention of Billy kicking him out of a locker room nor the supposed contract with Verne that forbade Robinson from hurting Graham.
Down the line when Billy came to Minnesota, Billy Robinson claimes that Billy Graham insisted that Verne write up a contract that prohibited Billy Robinson and Billy Graham from squaring up. I don't know the validity of this claim, but Billy Robinson says Billy Graham was so scared that he only came to Minnesota with the guarantee that Robinson wouldn't hurt him.
This claim about a contract and Graham refusing to work with Robinson, might come from the time in Minnesota when Graham opted out of working with him in favor of Wahoo McDaniel. One time they were matched up and Graham approached Robinson backstage and made a show of wrapping razor blades in his taped up hands, warning Robinson that if he attempted to shoot on him, that Graham would "shred you from your face to the tip of your toes." This is all from Graham's book, with Billy making no mention of it.
In Bruce Hart's book, he tells a story about how they had The Stomper penciled in to challenge NWA World Champion Dory Funk Jr, but they had The Stomper face Billy Robinson 2 weeks prior. The two meshed so poorly that it devolved into an ugly shoot, with the fans chanting boring at them. Eventually The Stomper left and got counted out, before getting to the back and telling Stu he is quitting. They had no choice but to put Robinson in his place, and while the match was amazing and Robinson would be a good face for Stampede at the time, even Bruce calls him a bully and finishes it by saying "here's not to you Mr Robinson, there is no place in Heaven for those who prey."
After Billy wrestled Dory Funk Jr in an 1 hour draw, and after Dory invited Billy to the States to wrestle.
Before heading over to the States full time, Billy did tours in England, Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong and Australia where he won the World title for a company that Jim Barnett was promoting.
Billy met Jack Brisco in Australia, shortly after winning the world title there. Billy remembers there first match together, saying that Jack was trying to show off a little too much so Billy said he showed him a simple catch hold that put poor Jack in the hospital for a couple days! Billy says the 2 became friends and calls him a good amateur wrestler and great guy.
Jack Brisco was the one who first told Billy about "shoot wrestlers" in the States. Billy never heard the term before but says a shooter is just another word for catch wrestling.
Billy mentions a rib that Jack Brisco and Dick Murdoch played on him during that Australia tour. Dick introduced Billy to chewing tobacco and purposely misinformed Billy on how to enjoy it. Billy swallowed the juice and vomiting all over the place.
Another time, Jack and Billy were up in Billy's hotel room all night, talking holds and even practicing them on one another. It was middle of the night, so Billy was in his underwear when Jack asked him to go get the newspaper from down the hall. The second Billy got in the hallway, Jack locked him out and made Billy sneak back to his room a few floors up in just his boxers. Billy said this was the nicest hotel in Australia, too.
Billy says he got his first taste of American pro wrestling in Hawaii, where he wrestled for several months. Every single guy who writes a wrestling book inevitably ends up doing a tour in Hawaii.
It was in Hawaii where Billy met Verne Gagne, who was "wrestling" a tour there, but really, Verne was on vacation and wrestling as a means to vacation for free. A lot of guys did that with Hawaii back in the day.
Billy and Verne wrestled a tag team match together, and after Verne made sure to watch how Billy was as a singles wrestler. Verne asked Billy to come back to the mainland in 1972.
Verne even asked Billy to train his son Greg, and they ended up inviting several other guys to a small wrestling camp. The group consisted of Verne's son Greg, Ric Flair, Ken Patera, Jim Bunzell (who would later team with Ken in AWA and be one half of the Killer Bee's in the WWE), Bob Bruggers (a former Miami Dophins linebacker), and Hossien Khosrow Vaziri (the future Iron Shiek).
An infamous story happened at this camp, early on, Shiek was the only one of the 6 who had amateur experience, and one day he was boasting to the others about how neither Verne or Billy could get him on his back in an amateur bout. Billy heard about this and challenged him immediately to spar. Shiek was successful in holding his stance on his knees, with Billy unable to turn him. So Billy viciously dropped his knee into Shiek's thigh, fucking him up bad. Then Billy casually rolled Shiek over and said "told you I could flip you."
Billy acknowledges Sheik as a very good amateur but says he has a big head a big mouth. He knew Shiek wasn't familiar with catch-as-catch-can, ankle submissions, neck cranks or double wristlocks and took advantage of him. Billy just casually says "I knelt on his thigh in a way we do. He couldn't walk for two days and couldn't work out at the camp for two weeks."
Billy remembers a match he did early on working for Verne, where a fan in the front row was being obnoxious and screaming at Billy all match. After the bout, Billy went and picked the fan up out of his seat and smacked him a few times and notes how the fan stayed quiet the rest of the show. When he got to the back he was chewed our by Verne who was afraid of a lawsuit. Billy says the fan ended up getting tickets to a future show.
In the middle of the book he goes on a rant about the history of how wrestling started in carnival tents and how champions made money. He calls Gorgeous George a "carnie wrestler" and credits him for accelerating the change in how the general audience looks at pro wrestlers. He resents the sentiment that all wrestlers are showmanship guys and puts over himself and others like Lou Thesz as legit tough guys. Billy is always putting over his skills as catch fighter in the book.
Billy says he and Lou Thesz became pretty good friends.
Billy says Lou Thesz would call Ed "Strangler" Louis as the best wrestler of all time, while Billy says he would call Billy Joyce the best of all time. But he says that Billy Joyce said that George Gregory was the best of all time.
Billy describes one time he wrestled Verne Gagne with Lou Thesz as the special referee. Billy says that he and Verne weren't getting along at this point, so throughout the match, Billy was sorta abusing Verne and taunting him the whole time. Billy says he kept turning to Lou and saying "Look at this Lou!" And "What do you think of this Lou?" As he took advantage of Verne. Eventually Lou piped up and said, "Jesus Billy, take it easy on him, he is the boss."
Ed "Strangler" Louise had an "open" contract, meaning that if you were matched up against him and wanted to shoot, Ed encouraged it. What a badass.
John Pesek was a wrestler with legit Olynpic credentials. John Pesek decided to shoot on Ed Lewis when Ed was very sick and had boils all over. It was a hard fight but Ed won. Lou Thesz resented Pesek for attempting this and even had him black balled by the NWA later in his career. Lou never forgave John for shooting on Ed when Ed was sick and never admitted Pesek was talented in any way. Billy clarifies that John Pesek was legitimate in the ring and tells this story as a way to show Lou Thesz power back in those days.
Ben Assirati was a freakishly strong guy who was known as a legit street fighter. Billy says he was a masochist who not only liked to hurt people in the ring, but also liked to get hurt, himself. Ben Assirati tried to start a rival promotion in England, and was challenged to a legitimate shoot fight by promoters (and world class ass kickers) George Gregory and Billy Joyce, but Ben turned them down. Of course, when Lou Thesz was NWA Champion and touring through England, Ben made a big show of challenging him beforehand and even got the newspapers to print about it. On the night of the show, Lou had police block the entrance and not let Ben in the arena. Billy tells this story as if Lou was turning down Ben's challenge for the way he turned down Gregory and Joyce. But Billy really puts over Ben Assirati as a scary guy in the ring and says that people actually died in the ring with Ben. Wild claim that I couldn't back up online, though there are a ton of stories to speak on Ben's notorioty in the ring.
In Lou Thesz memoir, he stated that he challenged Ben first multiple times and Ben refused all of them
Billy says that when he first got to the States, Lou Thesz and Karl Gotch were close friends who respected one another. But something happened that led to the two refusing to speak to one another.
Billy says a lot of old timers were hot heads, and gives an example of when his son was born. Billy named him Spencer after Winston Churchill, but Karl Gotch got angry at this and said it should have been a powerful name like Thor or something silly. Billy says that he and Karl nearly came to blows in the street over this. So whatever fractured the relationship between Gotch and Thesz, it was probably minor and petty.
When talking about modern wrestlers, Billy always refers to them in quotations. Like in his book he says "pro wrestlers" as if he is air quoting when talking about modern guys.
Billy says a big difference between wrestling in America vs England was how much guys talked in the ring in America (called spots). Billy says this never happens over seas and says he didn't call spots verbally.
Another big difference is how pay structure worked. In America it was all based on the house and what the promoter felt you earned. Over seas, Billy says he and the promoter would sit alone and discuss the pay prior to the match. Ticket sales were irrelevant, you always got paid what you agreed to. He says America is where all the backstabbing and politicking started in wrestling.
Billy says Danny Hodge was probably one of the most dangerous guys from his time wrestling and puts him over as one ofthe greatest American wrestlers ever.
Billy describes an interesting concept for wrestling promoters back in his day. Every promoter had what he called a "policman" wrestler. When a new guy came in and wanted to challenge the top draw, he would face this "policman" wrestler as the top draw or promoter watched closely. For example, if you were looking to challenge Lou Thesz, first you would face Ray Steele as Thesz watched and judged, then after he and Ray would talk about the guy together.
While working for Verne Gagne in the early 70s, Billy was asked to wrestle with a green as grass guy and Verne told Billy to go 10 minutes before he beat him. This baffled Billy and Verne had to explain its a taping and they need to put on a good show. Billy says he shouldn't have done that, especially considering how Verne would go on to screw with Billy's payoffs down the line.
Billy says he took the kid down at the 9 minute mark and stretched him, nearly breaking his elbow as he screamed and cried and tapped out. Billy says the guy gave an interview later and said pro wrestling is the nastiest and most dangerous sport there is. Billy chuckles at this but he took some rookie and killed any interest the kid had in wrestling while abusing him.
Billy tells a wild story about a short real fight he had with Peter Maivia in Japan. Billy, Peter and a few other guys were eating at a restaurant when Peter got upset at how the menu and ordering system worked. Peter got so worked up that Billy yelled at him to calm down. Later as Billy was walking towards his hotel, a drunk Peter Maivia approached Billy looking for a fight. Billy attempted to restrain him, telling Peter as he held him, "Peter stop it. I don't want to hurt you." But Peter in his enraged, drunken state goes to bite Billy in the neck! Billy, having been trained in self defense and combat like this, knew to tuck his chin to save his neck, but Peter still bit down hard and into Billy's face! Billy says he still had scars from this 40 or 50 years later! When blood started pouring down Billy's cheek, he snapped and laid out Peter with an unspecified number of strikes that left Peter with a broken nose and two black eyes. He says the fight lasted all of 15 seconds. Billy says he had to go to the hospital to get stitches and shot for a human bite.
The next morning, Billy nearly kicked Peter's door down and told Peter he is lucky to be alive. Billy points out how biting the neck is an attempt to kill him, so he gives Peter a chance to try again. A very sober Peter backed down immediately
Billy says he saw an interview on Tv where The Rock claimed that Peter Maivia bit Billy's eye out and he needed surgery. Billy refutes this claim and says the only eye surgery he ever had was when he was a kid.
Billy says a lot of guys would spar once or train once with someone and then spend their whole career saying they were trained by that person. He gave an example of one time, Bill Watts called him up asking about Johnny Eagles, who said he trained at Billy's gym. Billy had a good laugh because Eagles stopped by his gym one time to borrow money.
Billy often goes on tangents or rants about bullies and how much he hates them. He calls them cowards who always back down when challenged. I guess that's why he doesn't see himself as a bully, while almost everyone who came up after him clarifies him as the biggest bully they ever met. I've read several, several dozen wrestling book, and only 1 guy didn't have anything bad to say about Billy. That was Dynamite Kid, who didn't have anything nice to say about Billy either. He was just the only guy to bring up Billy Robinson and not rant about how awful of a person he was.
If the only guy to not have a negative story about you in Dynamite Kid, then you may be an asshole imo.
Billy says he was AWA World Heavyweight Champion for 24 hours "until they changed the decision on me." I'm not a big AWA buff so if anyone knows this story I would like to hear it.
Billy briefly mentions the Gagne produced movie in 1974 movie, "The Wrestler" but unfortunately Billy has no tales from the set or stories about it at all. Billy alongside Dusty Rhodes and Dick Murdoch all appeared in the film.
One time while in Alberta wrestling for Stampede, Billy was invited along with a couple other wrestlers to have dinner with the Primier of Alberta (like a State Governor) and at the event Billy was asked to join the premieres wife in the morning. So when the wife reminded Billy about coming by at 8am the next morning, Billy used British slang in response and said "Yes, I'll come knock you up at 8 o'clock tomorrow." Poor Billy had to explain that where he's from, someone waking you up in the morning by knocking on your door is a knocker upper.
Billy calls Canadian wrestler George Gordienko the strongest wrestler he ever got in the ring with. George Gordienko was originally hoping to be a doctor before becoming an exceptionally successful wrestler and someone who Lou Thesz once called one of the best of all time. Gordienko has been lost to time for the most part since he was banned from the United States during the McCarthy era. George married a woman who was the head of a communist party in America and poor George never got to return. He continued to wrestle in the UK until a bad ankle injury forced him to retire. He pivoted again and became a pretty succesful artist. Super fascinating story imo.
Over in Japan, Karl Gotch was working for Giant Baba in the Japan Pro Wrestling Alliance and their competition, the International Wrestling Enterprise contacted Billy Riley and asked who was the best catch wrestler available to counter Gotch, who was doing big business for JWA. Riley immediately suggested Robinson, who was quickly invited to Japan for the IWE.
Karl and Billy were friends but working for rival promotions in Japan, so they could only meet and get together in secret.
Billy ended up winning the World title for the IWE and they asked him to move his family to Japan long-term.
Billy wasn't having a good time coaching the young Japanese guys and complained to Karl Gotch that it seems like their minds are elsewhere. Karl advised Billy to hurt one of them to get them in line. Billy refused and said he was their coach, he wasn't supposed to hurt them. This is wild to hear from Billy, who's entire reputation among the next generation was that he was a bully who liked to hurt people.
A week later Billy got caught in a snowstorm after fighting with his wife, so he was in a bad mood as he walked into the gym to train the young guys. One of them mouthed off so Billy says he lined them all up and wrestled each of them into submission. He calls it an accident, bit says he ended up breaking one of their arms that day and after that all the young guys took everything more seriously and treated Billy with more respect and admiration.
Billy seems to have mixed feelings on his time in Japan since he did well and early on was treated well by promoters. He said in Japan if you have something someone needs, you're a God in their eyes and your treated as such. He says if you need something from someone though, they always make it clear that they are in charge and treat you poorly. He says he and Karl both started to really resent the culture there towards the end of their runs in Japan.
It was after or near the end of his Japan tour that Billy and his wife got divorced. He doesn't expand on it in any way in his book. Barely gets a passing mention.
In the mid-70s Billy was in rough shape, his drinking was out of control and his knee was beyond fucked. Billy started working odd jobs outside the wrestling business, including a security job gig in Las Vegas where he was training other security guards and he managed a gas station in Minnesota. Billy calls this the lowest point of his life and says the gas station job was the most boring thing he ever did in his life.
Antonio Inoki contacted Billy when he was running the gas station and invited him to Japan for a big celebration show where they would have a match. Billy doesn't speak highly of the match and says he just had knee surgery and could barely get in the ring, but if you look up reports on his 1975 match with Inoki, all you see is massive, massive praise and people calling it one of the best matches ever at the time.
Billy calls Inoki the best Japanese wrestler of all time.
Yuko Miyato of The Union of Wrestling Forces International (UWFI) contacted Billy and sent him to Nashville to train guys to go to Japan for them and Billy says between himself and Karl Gotch, every wrestler they trained went on to be world champions. Billy lists Shigeo Miyato and Nobuhiko Takada as examples.
Billy says Yuko Miyato "really saved me." Billy says he was drinking excessively and gained a ton of weight after the divorce, and that his knees and hips had to be replaced. Billy says his nervous system was fucked up from all the years of grappling and he couldn't effectively train anymore. He got a 2nd life back in Japan and even became the head coach at his old Snake Pit gym after Riley passed away in 1977. Billy says he ended spending 15 years in Japan training the next generation of catch/mma fighters.
Billy talks about the difference in training Japanese guys compared to others, since Japanese guys are more scientific and teach techniques down to the specificity. Billy didn't teach like that, he taught concepts and ideas that anyone could use on anyone else. He struggled to get some guys over the "belt system" in Japan where a brown belt guy would never challenge a black belt guys. Billy says anyone can beat the best, regardless of their belt.
Near the end of the book, Billy again rants about modern guys and how they know one or two moves and consider themselves catch style wrestlers. Billy also rants again about bullies and how you don't train people by taking advantage of them. (Tell that to Iron Sheik) Billy cites Verne Gagne as an example of a guy who didn't know how to spar or lock in submissions, and would train guys by exhausting them before he jumped on them and shot for a hold. Billy says he and Karl Gotch resented that and made sure their training camps were the opposite of that. It's funny because Billy literally did this stuff with Verne Gagne! Maybe he is implying that he learned then not to that stuff, but he doesn't outright say it. Billy as as guilty of bullying as the Verne imo.
Billy thinks modern MMA is shooting themselves in the foot for not having pinfalls. He says that fighting off your back is exciting and opens the door for more to be done. He says that when a guy is trying not to get pinned, he may leave an opening somewhere for the other guy to take advantage of.
Billy complains how modern boxers are looking for knockouts and training to knock people out. He says that's not how it's done, you fight and wait for the opening, Billy says you wait for the knockout to come to you, you don't go looking for it. He laments the same thing in submissions as well, saying you don't go looking to lock in a submission, you maneuver around and wait for the opening to present itself. You wait for the submission to come to you. He is extremely critical of modern "catch style" wrestlers/ fighters.
Billy is critical of modern wrestling and fighting having such short time limits, saying that short 2 or 3 minute rounds means that it's all about power.
The book ends with Billy ranting about modern fighters and amateur wrestlers and how Catch wrestling was the greatest sport of all time. I hope I love something as much as Billy loved catch-as-catch-can wrestling.
Billy passed away 1 year after this book came out, and it's said he died peacefully in his sleep.

I looked into Canadian sex offender maps, but they don’t have any. Anyone got confirmation????? I need to see them pins bro.

Hello fellow boycotters!
Since this sub is the go-to place for Canadians wanting to learn more about the boycott, I just wanted to voice a few suggestions for how I think we can optimize this page, while also starting a discussion thread for other people to voice their ideas too! 😊
Here are a few of my ideas, but feel free to correct me in the comments if I'm mistaken or this info is already somewhere accessible!

1. We should pin a comment with a direct clickable link to "https://www.altgrocery.ca". I know it's featured on the banner, but a direct and easily clickable link for people would be far more effective.
2. We should also have another pinned comment or tab where people who can't afford the boycott, or are in a food desert can learn unique ways to participate. I know the organizers behind this already have suggestions here and have even spoken about them in interviews, but we should still try to provide people with these ideas in as accessible a place as possible. I've already seen some media report on this effort as "privileged", so I believe having more clarity here would be beneficial.
3. Finally, I believe we should have an easily accessible place for people to easily learn every brand owned by Loblaws, but ALSO the other big grocers. Even though this boycott is focused on Loblaws, many Canadians are boycotting the other big players too by supporting small businesses instead. Even though I think we need to keep the focus on our demands to Loblaws, I also believe it would be beneficial to have this info somewhere accessible for those that are in a financial place they can take part in a wider boycott. Additionally, this info should be provided with a link to AltGrocery.ca to further streamline things.

I should say, I'm not too savvy on the inner workings of creating a sub, so while I've suggested pinned comments, I'm pretty sure there's a limit on how many a sub can have. But with that said, I believe the mods have the ability to add tabs via desktop mod tools? Honestly, tabs may be an even better place for this stuff. 🤷‍♂️
Anyway, thanks to the mods, and organizers, and everyone else taking part in this boycott! Stay strong everyone! ✊😊🇨🇦

If me (and other grad students in the sub, hmu below or in dms) did a grad school ama, would this be interesting to people? If so, what topics would you be interested in us covering? Would it be better to do it here with text or schedule a time on Twitch or Zoom?
I’ve wanted to do this for awhile and have done it for students at my Uni, but we get so many questions here every day (a lot of repeats, no judgement though), and an AMA could be pinned to the top and help a lot of new members of the sub or existing members who have questions but don’t know it (or don’t need/have an answer) quite yet.
I’ve gone through grad apps twice (both successful), am reasonably good at networking, and have 8 pubs (6 first author) and and about 20 conference presentations under my belt at the time of writing. I’m also at a Canadian SLAC so I cannot speak to the Ivy experience which is what I’d like other folks to join on to help with.

So I'm in Bye Bye Birdie for the first time. There are SO many references that I feel like I had to do research to figure out. I can't believe how much I miss of the references and context. The only place I found these compiled was this text-based personal website last dated 16 years ago, and even then it's only a few (though really key ones!) and some of them don't show up in my 2024 copy - I wonder if they were pared down. Regardless, figured I'd make a context and reference list based on the copy I have!
I can't fit it all in one post, I exceed the text limit, so we'll start with Act 1 with general context stuff and the second post will be Act 2 only :)

Context

How Dated Was the Musical When Released?
Bye Bye Birdie is famously a direct reference to Elvis Presley getting drafted in 1957 and the stir it caused. But note the musical was written and published in 1958, and went on Broadway in 1960. It's like if a musical went on Broadway this year (2024) about a blonde-haired pop star named Tay-lee Quick (instead of Taylor Swift) who performed a world tour, but didn't initially book any dates in Canada, causing a massive outcry, leading to several Canadian officials and the president "Justice Troodoo" to beg her to stop there and... something else silly happens involving her, then she gets punched by a jealous girlfriend, and silliness ensues.
That is how on-the-nose this musical really is. There are many references to what would have been VERY modern events in this musical. For that reason, I'll try to give some equivalences of how the references in the musical would sound if it was written today.
Elvis' Perception in America
This extensive Wikipedia article does a great job of saying in many words that Elvis was insanely influential and deeply controversial. 1956 was a major year of stardom for Elvis -
Phone Calls
Phones are obviously a huge part of this musical! Wanted to combine all the phone references here.
Kim's Phone Number: Kim's number is, according to Rosie in Act 1, Scene 1, "Capitol 7 - 8820". In the 50s, the previous system which used 6-digit phone numbers started to be replaced by one that used an "exchange prefix" and 5 digits after. (Source) (Source) At the time, phone numbers that didn't connect to anyone were given out for shows like I Love Lucy, so that may be what happened here as well, though I don't know.
One Phone Line to Share: Kim's mother asks her to get off the phone early in the play so she can take a phone call. For a long time before cell phones, each home had a "home number" and you couldn't use it at the same time. This is why Kim's mother is asking her to finish up her call so she can call someone and eventually get a phone call as well.
Picking Kim's Number: Rosie uses a rolodex she randomly flips through to pick Kim - which would have been very standard in the 1950s.
The Operator Trying to Get Through: Calls were pushed through using real people, usually women, plugging lines into a "switchboard" to connect them manually. So when Kim's mom says the operator has been trying to get through for nearly three quarters of an hour, she's been trying to not get a busy signal when manually connecting the lines for 45 minutes! That's dedication!
Mr. MacAfee Frustrated with Long Distance Calls: Cost of international calls at this time was per-minute - so calls to New York, Chicago, Fairbanks, Alaska, and Hong Kong would have cost a pretty penny - over $100 for the first 3 minutes in a similar estimation! It sounds like Conrad and Albert didn't really offer to cover this cost, so you can see why Mr. MacAfee is so cross.
Getting Pinned/Going Steady
"Going steady" referred to, in short, being exclusive with someone. "As Time reported in 1957, "Boys and girls who go steady dance together exclusively (cutting in is frowned upon), sip their sodas, absorb their double features and spin their platters in each other's company or not at all. Steady-going girls indicate their unavailability in various ways, [like] the old-fashioned fraternity pins." (Source) It's mentioned in other sources that this could also be school pins, or rings. Something to show your commitment. One of the heads of my production described it like a "promise ring". It's definitely a firmer promise and commitment then just going out with someone, but not quite an engagement.
However, why, if this is such a sweet gesture of romantic love and commitment, would everyone be freaking out about it, and Kim's parents potentially not reacting well to "getting pinned" or "going steady"? (Kim has a line where she exclaims to her mother that she thinks her dad took the announcement "awfully well"). Truth be told, going steady in high school was actually highly discouraged by adults and especially church at the time. This article/Reddit thread sheds some light. I'll copy the first comment here by u/Gfrisse1. "It was felt that going steady would encourage the relationship to develop into one of physical intimacy, something parents wished to avoid. On the other hand, dating a wider, more diverse number of individuals would give them the experience of being exposed to a greater number of character and personality types, thereby helping to hone their mate-selection skills for later on. In the meantime, the short-term relationships were not expected to get much beyond the first- or second-date stage of intimacy. (One-night-stands, or casual hook-ups were not as common-place as they are today.)"
Cigarettes/Age
There are many references to smoking, cigarettes, and how old you should be in this play. It's complicated, but just know that in the 1950s, EVERYONE smoked. Everywhere. In the early 1950s, though, the first studies were coming out with the link to lung cancer, and tobacco companies used every trick in the book to try to squash that. It's genuinely fascinating (and terrifying) how much money and strategy was poured into this misinformation campaign. Read about it here. Anyway, what this means is in the late 1950s, it's not like most were giving up smoking, but because tobacco companies had started more explicitly advertising to minors, several states were in debate about the smoking age. It varied from 21 to 16, but just know that Kim was not considered old enough to be doing it. (Source.)) However, MANY minors did. Think of it like underaged drinking today as the best analogy. There's some specific cigarette references that will pop up in specific scenes, but just know that's the standard.
Patriotism
Fresh(ish) off of the victory of World War II, which was filled with MASSIVE pushes for increased American patriotism (to the degree that Disney even got in on it!), love for the USA was very culturally acceptable and a way to show you were a good person! It was easy to rally around (especially if you ignored the growing civil rights movement of Black people trying to achieve equality, which many white people at the time were very happy to do until they could no longer ignore it - obviously, not touched on in this musical, but significant. Several racist references have been either removed or are requested to be removed by current versions.) But that's why we hear so many classic American anthems in this play!

References by Order of Appearance (Act 1)

Almaelou Music Corporation

This is the end of Almaelou Music Corporation!

Almaelou may very well be a parody of Aldon Music, which would fit due to its major success being in the late 50s, and it's influence in music written for teen girls at the time.
Arpege

Rosie: A five-dollar raise in 1954 and a bottle of Arpege last Christmas.

Arpege is a perfume that was released in 1927 and remained the best-selling perfume of well-loved fashion line Levine for decades. (Source) Albert is quoting a commercial tagline tied to the perfume that was very well-known at the time. It continued to be used in commercials for many years. (Commercial example). It was possible to see 1/2 oz bottles at the time (Source), but Albert gave her a laughably small amount at 1/16 of an ounce. You can still buy this perfume today!
A five-dollar raise in 1954. Secretaries in metropolitan areas could earn around $75 a week. (Source) A five-dollar raise bringing that to $80 a week would, ironically, be about a 1/16 increase in earnings. Also, Rosie is pointing out in an earlier line she has put in 90 hour weeks and hasn't gotten a raise in four years.
Modern example:

Rosie: My last raise was four years ago and you got me that jewelry from Kay Jewelers once
Albert: "Every Kiss Begins with Kay", Rosie. Rosie: Not when that "Kay" is a .25 karat discontinued friendship ring!

Music Business Bum Vs. English Teacher
This is related to the prestige of being an English teacher who is helping people learn a scholarly subject vs. the "seedy" music industry.
Ugga Bugga Boo

"When you wrote Conrad's last hit 'Ugga Bugga Boo' then I knew this was it/You were thru with English forever."

Ugga Bugga Boo is a real song released 1947. It's a comedy song, written by voice acting legend and radio host Mel Blanc (voice of Bugs Bunny, Porky Pig, and many others) for his comedy radio show. I do wonder if Elvis had a song in this vein, as the Jetsons did a similar parody with an Elvis expy a few years later, but I couldn't find one.
Geoffrey ChauceWilliam Morris

"It was goodbye, Geoffrey ChauceHello, William Morris"

Geoffrey Chaucer is considered one of the greatest English writers, specifically poets, of all time. Born in the 1400s.
As for William Morris, this could be two references, possibly combining.
William Morris Agency was an incredibly famous music talent agency that would have likely been known by some audience members in the 1950s. They've represented tons of major talent. This is what I believe is the most likely reference given the song context.
However William Morris was a man also considered a legendary poet during his life, born in the 1830s. However, he also made wallpapers and textiles. After his passing, he became infinitely more famous in the public eye for his wallpaper designs than he did for his poetry. This is could be a dig at that Alfred could be great in the English world, but like Morris, his legacy will be for something "silly" instead. (Important to note that his works, both art and poetry, had great impact - and this may just be a coincidence reference, I don't know)
Bliss! Kiss! That rhymes! I wonder if anyone's ever used it before?
Many people had and have, this is a joke of him being unaware of current trends. Dean Martin had a #1 song in 1955 with this very rhyme for instance that audiences may have remembered at the time.
Dentifrice

Albert: Oh one last kiss; it gives so much bliss... what is your dentifrice! No, that's too clinical...

Basically, toothpaste. Which is, kind of, related to kissing? It could actually be a paste or powder for cleaning the teeth, though in the 50s it wouldn't have been the default way to refer to what you used it seems from my research, like in this commercial. May be a way to show off that Albert really does have an excellent English teacher level vocabulary!
A modern example may be "do you use fluoride? No, that's too clinical..."
"What's the story? Morning glory?"
This is most likely a reference to the song "What's Your Story, Morning Glory?" by jazz legend Ella Fitzgerald released in 1958, another topical reference. It's very possible Helen, the teen who says this line, would be aware of the song because Ella Fitzgerald in 1956 had released her "Ella Fitzgerald Sings the Cole Porter Song Book" album, her attempt to pull in a non-jazz audience. (Source on Ella's Discography)
"What's the tale, nightingale" is most likely an original line to match the "Morning glory" one, same with the hummingbird line.
"Go to a fancy night club and stay out after ten!"
A nightclub was different from what we think of today. Think tables and chairs, late night musical performances (not the NSFW kind), and in some of the most famous like the Copacabana night club, rubbing elbows with the rich and famous. And drinking, of course! Source on Nightclub Definition
18 in World War II

Mr. MacAfee: I am not an old man! I was 18 in World War II.

This is one that may get a bit better with time. WWII ended in 1945, but the play is in 1958 at the earliest. It's better to demonstrate with a modern example written for 2024. "I am not an old man! I was 18 when Facebook first launched." Not quite the same impact as WWII, but the timeline is similar. Essentially this is not a flex and just shows he definitely is old to a teenager.
No Smoking 'Till You're 14

Albert: Remember the Conrad Birdie Creed dear. No smoking till you're fourteen.

As mentioned in my blurb above, 14 was too young to smoke. A modern version may say "No drinking 'till you're 16" or something. Similar to the line "and stay out of the bar!" later on.
"Go down to Track 12"

Albert: Why don't you girls go down to Track 12 and I'll talk to her.

This is one of the many train tracks that must have run through this station. This station is located in New York, so it would make sense for there to be at least 12.
Wear your rubbers

"Keep your money in your inside pocket. Wear your rubbers. And eat a hot lunch..."

While "rubber" as slang for a condom definitely did exist in the 1950s, I believe it's far more likely Mae is referring to overshoes due to the context, though to be fair, I can't find a source to this being "official slang" besides casual mention in posts like these. Something tells me Mae is not randomly mentioning condoms lol.
A Plain G.I.

Albert: Proud to be a plain G.I.!

Mentioning this because it's faded away from current use and surged in usage most recently at WWII, this is just referring to being a soldier. (Source) Hence, G.I. Joe, if you're old enough to remember that.
Appealing for the Draft

Albert: And that's why he volunteered for...

Men were drafted to join the US armed forces until 1973. (Source)
Jerries

Albert: "Say Mr. Peterson," he cried eagerly, "Do you suppose I can get assigned to the front-line trenches? That way I'll be sure to get one of those dirty jerries..."

"Jerries" is slang for German soldiers and was most popular during WWII. The joke here is that WWII is over at this point - the enemies Conrad would be facing at this time would be the Vietnamese, not the Germans. When Rosie tries to correct him, he just says "whoever's dirty this time!".
2024 equivalent: "Conrad said 'Is there any way I could be placed on Seal Team 6? That way I'll be sure to get that Osama Bin Laden for sure!'" "Albert!" "...Or whoever the terrorist is this time!"
Rosie + Albert's "Origin Stories" for Conrad
Just a few references from Rosie's and Albert's stories in "Healthy Normal American Boy" that may be interesting.
Old Virginie - This may be known as a historical fact for people in Virginia, but Carry Me Back to Old Virginny was popular enough in the state of Virginia that it was the state song starting in 1940. In 1940, the version that became the state song had "Virginia" instead of "Virginny", but people watching the musical would definitely be familiar with the original version as this play was only 20 years later.
Indo-China - An eastern territory that got independence from France claim in 1954, and comprised Cambodia, Laos, and parts of Vietnam. Audiences would have been very aware of what Indochina was - according to Wikipedia, "The events of [Indochina getting independence in 1954 through the Geneva Convention and the political tensions of that between S/N Vietnam and other countries] marked the beginnings of serious United States involvement in Vietnam and the ensuing Vietnam War." (Source) Remember, that's the current war during the events of the play!
Dirty Hong Kong moon - We had a complicated relationship with Hong Kong in the 1950s-60s. Read more here. Though I'm not sure if this is meant to be a mis-insult like when Albert said "dirty Jerries".
A wire to New York

Another Reporter: I'll make sure we've got a wire to New York.

This is almost certainly setting up a telegraph communication to New York, which was still happening (though declining in popularity) by 1960. (Source)
I mean I really feel that girl

Conrad: When I sing about a tree/I really feel that tree!/When I sing about a girl,/I really feel that girl,/I mean I really feel sincere!

This isn't necessarily specific to the 50s or 60s but I think this joke gets missed because it seems so tame today. A huge part of Elvis' appeal was his explicit sex appeal at the time (in the form of - gasp! - hip thrusts!) so he's slipping in accidentally a reference to "feeling up" a girl%20for%20sexual%20pleasure) here. Yeah, that slang started in the 1930s!
Mr. MacAfee's Speech
Just know that this is a lot of great historical references, nothing specific to 1950 - 60.
Ed Sullivan
Ed Sullivan was the nationwide sensation that lead The Ed Sullivan Show, a TV program considered one of the most iconic of all time in US television history. You have to understand just how influential and huge the Ed Sullivan Show was at this time. It's genuinely difficult to think of an equivalent in 2024 - today, people get entertainment from tons of sources on the internet, TV, etc. but in 1960 there were THREE television channels. That was it. THREE. To be fair, there were many, many more radio stations that could deliver information and entertainment, but by 1960 it was a TV nation - as the Library of Congress says, "In 1950 only 9 percent of American households had a television set, but by 1960 the figure had reached 90 percent." The Ed Sullivan Show was well watched and well loved by all of the United States. (And Albert saying that they would appear on Sunday at 8:05 was right, as that's when it aired in real life!)
One reason Ed Sullivan is specifically picked is the absolute bombshell of a privilege to be a normal family on this show beamed in practically every household in the United States. But another is Elvis' relationship with the show. When Elvis finally appeared on the show in 1956, it set a record of the most-viewed TV program ever in the US. In fact, it still holds the record TODAY of having the highest share of TV viewers in all of television history in the US. No other TV program has ever had a higher percentage of people tune in vs. other stations. (I mean, that's helped by the fact that there were only 3 choices, but still!) So yeah - this was a cultural phenomenon that was easy to reference in this show!
Margo out of Shangri-La

Mrs. Peterson: She looks like Margo when they took her out of Shangri-La.

Going to take this one right from that personal website I referenced above!

In the 1937 [movie] "Lost Horizon)" [...] a group of travelers are stuck in a utopia called Shangri-La, somewhere in the Himalayas. One of the residents of Shangri-La is Maria, played by Margo), a Mexican dancer and actress. When the travelers finally escape, Maria insists on going with them. But outside the realm of Shangri-La, her youthful beauty can no longer be maintained and she reverts to her true age, causing her to die and her appearance to transform to the hideously withered, wrinkled features of someone who has lived way beyond a normal life span.

You can watch the movie free with ads here, if you're curious! Also, according to the synopsis, Maria never actually escapes Shangri-La. She just dies and "reverts to her true age". AKA looks very very very decrepit. I'm guessing this is more of an easy thing to misremember and better shorthand, though. See the face at 2 hr 3 minutes in abouts!
Suwannee River

Gloria: Mae, can you hum Suwannee River?

While this is a nice convenient copyright-free tune, it would definitely have been publicly known at the time. It had been sung at least partially by Bing Crosby, on the Honeymooners, etc. in recent years before the musical premiered. Unsure if this is what they were going for, but the original lyrics are racist - no wonder it was Mae's "favorite selection".
Ruby Keeler

(Stage direction) Gloria tap dances as Mrs. Peterson hums gaily. Sort of Ruby Keeler-ish steps with a lot of feet-slapping.

Ruby was a well known actress and dancer in the 1920s-30s (and then later after a break). Here's some footage of her dancing! Interestingly, in her early career she was cast in a musical called Bye, Bye, Bonnie. In a newspaper article review, it seems the plot wasn't very similar to Bye Bye Birdie, though it did involve someone going to jail. (Source)
The Touch System

Mrs. Peterson: I'll find you a typewriter (Exits) Albert: [TO GLORIA] Do you use the touch system? Gloria: Whenever possible.

Albert is just referring to the touch system of typing - basically, not looking at the keyboard while you type. Still relevant today, though not with typewriters, which were standard until the 1980s, so that fits here. Of course, Gloria is of course referring to, uh, something a bit more sensual. (Read: She wants to touch him and not like a friend.)
Kodak Ad

Sullivan: So remember: your surest way to the best in color slides is to insist on the new Kodak! And now, the young man you've all been waiting to see.

Just like media today, the Ed Sullivan Show certainly included ads. This included ad deals where Ed himself would promote a product, kind of like YouTubers do with "This video is sponsored by...". And, as you can guess, one of those products was Kodak cameras and camera related products. Kodak was still a huge brand at the time (there were not cell phone cameras as competition, so it was way more likely your home owned a camera or two), Kodak absolutely was sponsoring the Ed Sullivan show and had been for a few years (Source). Here's an example from the time period. What you may miss about this ad in the musical is that it's not actually advertising a camera! Cameras at the time required physical film be loaded into them, and wouldn't you know it, Kodak released a new high-speed color film in 1959! (I think this may be a coincidence, as Kodak had been selling color film for quite a bit before this) Yet another reference that's right on the nose of the current times (of the time)!
Wear it in good health

Albert: Who let that kid in here? Rosie: I did Albert. Albert: Rosie! Rosie: It's a sort of farewell present to you and Miss Rasputin. Wear it in good health.

Not invented in the 50s by any means, but this phrase really isn't used as much today I think. There's not really a deeper meaning here besides sarcasm that I can find - it's just wishing someone well. Obviously, the sarcasm is dripping here lol.
Dinah Shore

STAGE DIRECTION: ...as Mr. MacAfee throws a tremendous Dinah Shore kiss to the audience.

Dinah Shore was an actress and entertainer that had been popular for years at that point. Super interesting career if you want to give it a read. This is referencing her famous "Dinah Shore kiss" that she would give at the end of her show broadcasts and was a huge part of her brand. Here's an example!
Stay tuned for Part 2! :)

This is a big ol' thread to centralize sales posts and discussions around said sales, from Corporate Accounts and dealhunters alike. We're going from two threads a month, to one thread a month. This is to match the decreasing traffic on account of "The Plague" losing ground in the public eye.
To redditors: I use the Canadian date format, DD/MM/YYYY.
To Vendors: please keep your sales posts in this pinned thread.
Previous Thread: https://www.reddit.com/StandingDesk/comments/1bt84kf/