Examples of commensalism
ExamplesOfGood - Examples of People Being Good to One Another and to the Planet
2012.02.20 01:36 DecidingToBeBetter ExamplesOfGood - Examples of People Being Good to One Another and to the Planet
2012.02.20 01:11 DecidingToBeBetter ExamplesOfEvil - People being awful to each other and our planet
2019.03.04 16:20 raistlin212 Examples of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez killing it
/MurderedByAOC : Comebacks and comments by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and friends on the economic left.
2024.05.13 17:20 No-Regular-2699 Much of life is a competitive, zero-sum game. What are examples of non-zero-sum human conditions?
The thought that one person’s gain is another person’s loss is brutal.
We aren’t always good—we are a complex species—but I’d be curious to learn of examples in which we are synergistic, commensal, or thriving without one side losing during the exchange.
submitted by No-Regular-2699 to RandomThoughts [link] [comments]
We aren’t always good—we are a complex species—but I’d be curious to learn of examples in which we are synergistic, commensal, or thriving without one side losing during the exchange.
2024.05.12 16:04 Fit_Dependent6645 GI Map
 | Looking for some insight on what could be causing mucous in stool occasionally. Just did a GI Map and going on a protocol for all high markers / h pylori. Often it is after the feeling of needing to make a bum or passing gas. Clear usually or yellow. submitted by Fit_Dependent6645 to GutHealth [link] [comments] |
2024.04.17 14:52 Daniboy0826 When should I write commas before and after adverbs like 'However'?
I do not know if it is just optional, but I have alredy seen phrases that go like:
• "They said prices would not rise. The next week, however, they did."
• "There may, however, be other reasons that we don't know about."
In both of these sentences, the 'however' is written with 2 commas before and after, when should I do that? For example, this phrase here does not use commas at all:
• "This relationship however is not truly commensal."
And this one has only one comma before:
• "Deception requires complicity, however subconscious."
submitted by Daniboy0826 to EnglishLearning [link] [comments]
• "They said prices would not rise. The next week, however, they did."
• "There may, however, be other reasons that we don't know about."
In both of these sentences, the 'however' is written with 2 commas before and after, when should I do that? For example, this phrase here does not use commas at all:
• "This relationship however is not truly commensal."
And this one has only one comma before:
• "Deception requires complicity, however subconscious."
2024.04.10 23:00 SupahCabre Tips and predictions for realistic herbivore race
Pro-Tip: If you are making sapient races that are carnivores or herbivores, read this!
A lot of people create "herbivore" or "carnivore" intelligent races without any thinking on how it affects the culture and behavior. Often in children-targeted fantasy worlds where you don't have to really explain anything and just rely on suspension of belief. But if you want a bit of realism, check this out!
Let's say there's two different species of “human” on two separate earths in two alternate universes, let's call one of them Herbians as the archetypical example of a herbivore sapient, and the other Carnians as archetypical carnivore.
For this thread, I'll be focusing on a world where humans evolved from herbivores and are the dominant species
https://www.fieldandstream.com/do-deer-eat-meat/
https://www.reddit.com/Beastars/comments/yp5iud/fun_fact_male_deer_are_opportunistic_omnivores/
https://www.espn.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?id=4556529
So they aren't herbivores, but omnivores. Even horses eat meat:
https://youtu.be/fg2mJ4veuAY?si=xZbYj7T-VUTYV8CI
https://youtu.be/ZnYNmGMsU18?si=mkPDNSm7QRmZzbUw
The Arabian horse was created in the Nejd desert by the Bedouin. There is little or no grass in the Nejd for most of the year, so the Bedouin fed their horses for months at a time on on a diet of dried camel meat, camel milk, honey and dried crickets. This may be one of the reasons that Arabian horses are extremely feed-efficient and known for “getting fat on a glass of water and a good view”. Since horses and deer readily eat meat at any opportunity, maybe it's the quantity of meat they eat that defines whether they're herbivores or omnivores. But then you find out apes like Orangutans and gorillas are considered omnivores, and they eat very little meat, almost none:
So, so-called “omnivores” eat as much animal matter in their diet as deer! You see how this can be confusing? The difference between an actual herbivore and an omnivore is their digestive system and enzymes. Orangutans and deer are designed to survive off of plants, especially when you look at their digestive systems. Orangutans & gorillas are hindgut fermenters, and deer are ruminants that have four stomachs and chew cud. They cannot constantly eat animal products or they'll get sick. As such, animal matter makes up a tiny insignificant amount of their diets, but as herbivores they NEED to eat plants. A pig or a bear have much shorter and different digestive systems and can literally either eat grass every day, or they can switch to eating meat every day whenever it's necessary, and not have any serious problems. Humans can be vegetarians, or even strictly carnivores like the Inuit, and be perfectly healthy.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/ma27/fruit-foraging-primates-may-be-key-large-brain-evolution
Same with bats, eating fruits, nectar, and seeds makes them smarter than bats that eat bugs, however this has more to do with size & longer gestation combo:
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/421334
This can also be shown in animals like birds like parrots where their larger size, diet and their sociality leads to incredible intelligence on par with or superior to corvids.
Nectar has more calories than all three but is much rarer until the domestication of bees.
Because of their intelligence, herbians need to eat the highest calorie food items in order to fuel their large brains. Ancient hunter gatherers were like 80% vegetarians:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/jan/24/hunter-gatherers-were-mostly-gatherers-says-archaeologist?CMP=share_btn_url
However, for herbivorous sapients their digestive system would actually be designed for an herbivorous diet, similar to apes and horses. So constant meat eating would make them very sick (5% of chimpanzee diet is animal products, and most herbivores like deer sometimes eat bugs, small birds, and pieces of carrion).
https://frugivorebiology.com/chimpanzees-omnivores-or-frugivores/
Horses must eat 1.5-2% of their body weight each day in roughage (like the low calorie hay or green pasture which is like practically eating cardboard), and a half-ton horse needs approximately 15,000 kilocalories (what we think of as Calories) per day, bare minimum! A human sized (150-250 lb) herbivore like miniature horse and orangutan needs roughly 2300 calories each day, but a sapient human sized herbivore would eat high calorie diet such as grains and other carbohydrates and thus would not need to eat so much food per day to achieve their calorie necessities.
http://www.dayvillesupply.com/hay-and-horse-feed/calorie-needs.html
Herbivores would normally get food from foraging, and horses often spend 17 hours a day grazing. Orangutans can forage for up to 6 hours a day. Humans feed captive herbivores with food trays at set intervals - optimally three to five times per day but at least twice per day. With intelligence, herbians would likely try to implement set intervals in order to increase time, productivity and work, but the foraging instinct is still strong and herbians, especially hunter gatherers, would be constantly having snacks during the day. This means, as natural foragers, they'd be workaholics and curious, valuing novelty and sensory experiences, the physical concrete world instead of pure theory. Opportunists and busy bodies (predominantly kinesthetic and visual learners), herbians would value accumulating personal wealth and maintaining production quotas or centralized bureaucracies. They'd most likely be polytheistic, as these cultures are more about valuing community over the individual.
They would be highly social and hierarchical with the dominant male controlling the biggest harem. They'd be very aggressive and warlike, and build cities, fortresses and warriors to protect their land & property. The "Type 6" & “Type 3” personality, or the “extraverted sensing” personality. Herbivores can afford to be very aggressive (and tend to be more aggressive than carnivores), as if they get injured they can simply eat plants (which don't run away) until they heal from their injury. They are also more likely to get in fights because they live in larger groups and hence often adopt aggressive behaviors to find mates, etc. This is why in Africa hippos, elephants, and cape buffalo are often more dangerous than lions, hyenas, and leopards. herbian would be sedentary farmers, and much of their time will be spent eating, and working. The opposite of carnivores, they are focused on EXPENDING energy.
They'd likely emass empires like many ancient agricultural societies (China, India, Rome, Egypt, Khmer Empire, Mesoamerica, Incas) and be obsessed with management of land and irrigation with resulting strict borders, erosion, salinity and so on. Their range is limited to where food grows, so there are no “Inuit” tundra civilizations where agriculture is nearly impossible, or any arid dwellers unless it's next to a large river that never dries up like the Nile River in Egypt (which in itself is sort of an outlier).
Herbivores will either starve from prevention to eat the fields of food, or be outright killed as pests. Their survival depends on how well they adapt to these changes. We see this in primarily agricultural areas of Africa where certain species that were wiped out to extinction or nearly to extinction but had to be saved by outside forces and only then did people suddenly realize (surprise surprise!) that those animals turned out to be very suitable for domestication all this time (Bontebok, Blesbok, Quagga, etc). Herbians would love pet cats and ferrets, but hate locusts, rodents, & have a love-hate relationship with birds (besides birds of prey & owls, birds are only good for fertilizer but are otherwise pests). Likely a “Four Pests Campaign” scenario would be reenacted at some point, where people ASSUMED sparrows ate mostly grain and that was enough to exterminate them almost to extinction, causing the locust population to skyrocket. This might result in the domestication of sparrows.
This lack of thought and care for animals compared to plants is also shown in the abuse of domesticated animals like donkeys in agrarian parts of the world, which is heavily correlated with the subjugation & abuse of women:
https://theconversation.com/donkeys-are-unsung-heroes-in-ethiopias-humanitarian-crisis-and-they-could-do-even-more-with-better-support-223217
https://muse.jhu.edu/article/744820
Donkeys & horses actually BENEFIT wildlife (including endangered species) by providing water, but agrarian humans, being overly managing of land and crops, literally think all feral animals are pests and “harmful to wildlife” since they aren't being controlled by humans and thus are inconvenient & useless:
https://theconversation.com/feral-desert-donkeys-are-digging-wells-giving-water-to-parched-wildlife-159909
The overmanaging of land by people combined with the thoughtlessness towards animals actually has environmental effects:
Herbians would be far more cold, economic, and bloodthirsty than omnivorous or carnivorous humans.
Small canines would be substantially better than cats at general farmland pest control - cats could still exist for mice but chasing off rabbits, herding animals, etc, is a very canine specific thing. That said, it would likely be very, very difficult without the pact bond of hunting other animals. Wild dogs would likely remain cultural villains for millenia after other animals are already domesticated.
submitted by SupahCabre to worldbuilding [link] [comments]
A lot of people create "herbivore" or "carnivore" intelligent races without any thinking on how it affects the culture and behavior. Often in children-targeted fantasy worlds where you don't have to really explain anything and just rely on suspension of belief. But if you want a bit of realism, check this out!
Let's say there's two different species of “human” on two separate earths in two alternate universes, let's call one of them Herbians as the archetypical example of a herbivore sapient, and the other Carnians as archetypical carnivore.
For this thread, I'll be focusing on a world where humans evolved from herbivores and are the dominant species
First of all, what is a herbivore?
A herbivore is a creature that primarily eats plants, carnivores are creatures that primarily eat other animals, and omnivores eat both. So a deer literally has four stomachs and is what we think of when thinking about herbivores, but deer actually eat a lot of meat, including human remains!https://www.fieldandstream.com/do-deer-eat-meat/
https://www.reddit.com/Beastars/comments/yp5iud/fun_fact_male_deer_are_opportunistic_omnivores/
https://www.espn.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?id=4556529
So they aren't herbivores, but omnivores. Even horses eat meat:
https://youtu.be/fg2mJ4veuAY?si=xZbYj7T-VUTYV8CI
https://youtu.be/ZnYNmGMsU18?si=mkPDNSm7QRmZzbUw
The Arabian horse was created in the Nejd desert by the Bedouin. There is little or no grass in the Nejd for most of the year, so the Bedouin fed their horses for months at a time on on a diet of dried camel meat, camel milk, honey and dried crickets. This may be one of the reasons that Arabian horses are extremely feed-efficient and known for “getting fat on a glass of water and a good view”. Since horses and deer readily eat meat at any opportunity, maybe it's the quantity of meat they eat that defines whether they're herbivores or omnivores. But then you find out apes like Orangutans and gorillas are considered omnivores, and they eat very little meat, almost none:
The mountain gorilla is primarily a herbivore; the majority of its diet is composed of the leaves, shoots and stems (85.8%) of 142 plant species. It also feeds on bark (6.9%), roots (3.3%), flowers (2.3%), and fruit (1.7%), as well as small invertebrates. (0.1%).[13]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_gorilla
Although gorillas don't kill big animals, they regularly eat small animals (mainly insects). However, this constitutes far less than 0.1% of their food. In chimpanzees, up to 6% of the food may be animal matter.www.berggorilla.org/en/gorillas/general/everyday-life/what-do-gorillas-eat/
“Orangutans are large-bodied animals that must eat large amounts of high-calorie foods. Largely frugivorous, when it is abundant, the fruit will make up as much as 90% of their diet, supplemented with leaves, shoots, seeds, buds, flowers, bark, insects and mineral-rich soil, and occasional instances of meat-eating”https://www.orangutanrepublik.org/learn/orangutan-specifics/diet/
Because over 60% of their diet is fruit (based on averaging thousands of observations), they are considered frugivores; however, orangutans also will eat young leaves (approximately 25% of their diet), flowers and bark (approximately 10%) and insects, mainly ants, termites, pupae, and crickets (approximately 5%).https://www.ourf.info/faqs-mainmenu-28/20-about-orangutans/61-what-do-wild-orangutans-eat
So, so-called “omnivores” eat as much animal matter in their diet as deer! You see how this can be confusing? The difference between an actual herbivore and an omnivore is their digestive system and enzymes. Orangutans and deer are designed to survive off of plants, especially when you look at their digestive systems. Orangutans & gorillas are hindgut fermenters, and deer are ruminants that have four stomachs and chew cud. They cannot constantly eat animal products or they'll get sick. As such, animal matter makes up a tiny insignificant amount of their diets, but as herbivores they NEED to eat plants. A pig or a bear have much shorter and different digestive systems and can literally either eat grass every day, or they can switch to eating meat every day whenever it's necessary, and not have any serious problems. Humans can be vegetarians, or even strictly carnivores like the Inuit, and be perfectly healthy.
The archetypical herbivore
The herbians are most likely hindgut fermenters like most intelligent herbivore animals & a very wide diet but primarily granivores (high energy food sources) more than frugivores (low energy) and especially more than folivores (very low energy). Scientists suggested that fruit foraging lead to big brains in primates:https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/ma27/fruit-foraging-primates-may-be-key-large-brain-evolution
Same with bats, eating fruits, nectar, and seeds makes them smarter than bats that eat bugs, however this has more to do with size & longer gestation combo:
https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/421334
This can also be shown in animals like birds like parrots where their larger size, diet and their sociality leads to incredible intelligence on par with or superior to corvids.
Nectar has more calories than all three but is much rarer until the domestication of bees.
Because of their intelligence, herbians need to eat the highest calorie food items in order to fuel their large brains. Ancient hunter gatherers were like 80% vegetarians:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/jan/24/hunter-gatherers-were-mostly-gatherers-says-archaeologist?CMP=share_btn_url
However, for herbivorous sapients their digestive system would actually be designed for an herbivorous diet, similar to apes and horses. So constant meat eating would make them very sick (5% of chimpanzee diet is animal products, and most herbivores like deer sometimes eat bugs, small birds, and pieces of carrion).
https://frugivorebiology.com/chimpanzees-omnivores-or-frugivores/
Horses must eat 1.5-2% of their body weight each day in roughage (like the low calorie hay or green pasture which is like practically eating cardboard), and a half-ton horse needs approximately 15,000 kilocalories (what we think of as Calories) per day, bare minimum! A human sized (150-250 lb) herbivore like miniature horse and orangutan needs roughly 2300 calories each day, but a sapient human sized herbivore would eat high calorie diet such as grains and other carbohydrates and thus would not need to eat so much food per day to achieve their calorie necessities.
http://www.dayvillesupply.com/hay-and-horse-feed/calorie-needs.html
Herbivores would normally get food from foraging, and horses often spend 17 hours a day grazing. Orangutans can forage for up to 6 hours a day. Humans feed captive herbivores with food trays at set intervals - optimally three to five times per day but at least twice per day. With intelligence, herbians would likely try to implement set intervals in order to increase time, productivity and work, but the foraging instinct is still strong and herbians, especially hunter gatherers, would be constantly having snacks during the day. This means, as natural foragers, they'd be workaholics and curious, valuing novelty and sensory experiences, the physical concrete world instead of pure theory. Opportunists and busy bodies (predominantly kinesthetic and visual learners), herbians would value accumulating personal wealth and maintaining production quotas or centralized bureaucracies. They'd most likely be polytheistic, as these cultures are more about valuing community over the individual.
They would be highly social and hierarchical with the dominant male controlling the biggest harem. They'd be very aggressive and warlike, and build cities, fortresses and warriors to protect their land & property. The "Type 6" & “Type 3” personality, or the “extraverted sensing” personality. Herbivores can afford to be very aggressive (and tend to be more aggressive than carnivores), as if they get injured they can simply eat plants (which don't run away) until they heal from their injury. They are also more likely to get in fights because they live in larger groups and hence often adopt aggressive behaviors to find mates, etc. This is why in Africa hippos, elephants, and cape buffalo are often more dangerous than lions, hyenas, and leopards. herbian would be sedentary farmers, and much of their time will be spent eating, and working. The opposite of carnivores, they are focused on EXPENDING energy.
They'd likely emass empires like many ancient agricultural societies (China, India, Rome, Egypt, Khmer Empire, Mesoamerica, Incas) and be obsessed with management of land and irrigation with resulting strict borders, erosion, salinity and so on. Their range is limited to where food grows, so there are no “Inuit” tundra civilizations where agriculture is nearly impossible, or any arid dwellers unless it's next to a large river that never dries up like the Nile River in Egypt (which in itself is sort of an outlier).
Suppression of herbivores
As society grows more and more, herbians would kill to extinction any wild animal that eats them or any crops in their territory, only at best keeping certain breeds as beasts of burden, and it would likely be a very long time before they actually domesticate herbivores besides oxen. There is a difference from the omnivorous / carnivorous caused extinctions because early humans hunted and ate the largest game they could find and the mere arrival of humans spelled extinction for megafauna (for example, Australia, Eurasia, America, etc). Herbians would only kill what they perceive to be a threat to their food and livelihoods, so animals eating inedible plants could possibly be spared.Herbivores will either starve from prevention to eat the fields of food, or be outright killed as pests. Their survival depends on how well they adapt to these changes. We see this in primarily agricultural areas of Africa where certain species that were wiped out to extinction or nearly to extinction but had to be saved by outside forces and only then did people suddenly realize (surprise surprise!) that those animals turned out to be very suitable for domestication all this time (Bontebok, Blesbok, Quagga, etc). Herbians would love pet cats and ferrets, but hate locusts, rodents, & have a love-hate relationship with birds (besides birds of prey & owls, birds are only good for fertilizer but are otherwise pests). Likely a “Four Pests Campaign” scenario would be reenacted at some point, where people ASSUMED sparrows ate mostly grain and that was enough to exterminate them almost to extinction, causing the locust population to skyrocket. This might result in the domestication of sparrows.
This lack of thought and care for animals compared to plants is also shown in the abuse of domesticated animals like donkeys in agrarian parts of the world, which is heavily correlated with the subjugation & abuse of women:
https://theconversation.com/donkeys-are-unsung-heroes-in-ethiopias-humanitarian-crisis-and-they-could-do-even-more-with-better-support-223217
https://muse.jhu.edu/article/744820
Donkeys & horses actually BENEFIT wildlife (including endangered species) by providing water, but agrarian humans, being overly managing of land and crops, literally think all feral animals are pests and “harmful to wildlife” since they aren't being controlled by humans and thus are inconvenient & useless:
https://theconversation.com/feral-desert-donkeys-are-digging-wells-giving-water-to-parched-wildlife-159909
The overmanaging of land by people combined with the thoughtlessness towards animals actually has environmental effects:
“The removal of donkeys and other introduced megafauna to protect desert springs in North America and Australia seems to have led to an exuberant growth of wetland vegetation that constricted open water habitat, dried some springs, and ultimately resulted in the extinction of native fish. Ironically, land managers now simulate megafauna by manually removing vegetation.https://theconversation.com/from-feral-camels-to-cocaine-hippos-large-animals-are-rewilding-the-world-83301
It is likely that introduced megafauna are doing much more that remains unknown because we have yet to accept these organisms as having ecological value.”
Herbians would be far more cold, economic, and bloodthirsty than omnivorous or carnivorous humans.
Domesticated species
Herbians would have domesticated several plant species long before the first domesticated animal, and most domesticated species are plants. Their first domesticated animals would be not dogs, but small commensal predators of pests such as cats, ferrets, genets, foxes, shrikes, and harris hawks, and this would be very early in the paleolithic stage when herbians were hunter gatherers (emphasis on the “gatherer” part; irl ancient hunter gatherers were mostly vegetarians). The second domesticated animal, perhaps in the neolithic era, would be bees because of providing honey and pollination, and likely sparrows and other insectivores when you consider the fact that they might be initially hunted for being pests themselves. Oxen would also be domesticated despite being a herbivore. For one, it's paramount for agriculture to begin with, and most likely a commensal situation similar to dogs where the oxen were attracted to the “inedible” (to herbians) plant garbage left by herbians and got increasingly friendly (in order to survive encounters and continue scavenging) & some curious and brave persons decided to kidnap ox calves and raise them as pets. One can imagine a breed of ox specifically bred to have enormous horns for defensive purposes. In other parts of the world they could have domesticated the Moose instead, with antlers that come forward like spiked shields.Small canines would be substantially better than cats at general farmland pest control - cats could still exist for mice but chasing off rabbits, herding animals, etc, is a very canine specific thing. That said, it would likely be very, very difficult without the pact bond of hunting other animals. Wild dogs would likely remain cultural villains for millenia after other animals are already domesticated.
2024.04.10 17:30 _Evergreene_ (SPOILERS) Symbiotic Rebirth Theory: A Theory About a Certain Kaiju's Rebirth in GxK
Hello all! This is my first time posting to this subreddit, I had a little idea I wanted to share with you all and I hope it creates a little discussion about this plot point going forward! This theory is spoiler heavy for Godzilla x Kong: The New Empire, so if you have not seen the film just yet you have been warned about any potential spoilers I'll be discussing here! Lets begin!
I have seen a lot of discussion and complaints about Mothra's portrayal in GxK, and while I agree it could've been handled a lot better and clearer than what we got, I have noticed that a lot of people are caught up on a specific element of her portrayal in the film; Mothra's rebirth.
During the events of GxK, we are introduced to a Hollow Earth Iwi civilization whose lore tell a prophecy of an Iwi from Skull Island (Jia) coming down to the Hollow Earth to enact the rebirth of Mothra. Upon realizing that this fabled Iwi is Jia, she is prepared for the ceremony where she climbs to the peak of one of the Iwi pyramids where... Mothra seemingly just, materializes out of thin air..? No questions asked..? Needless to say, this whole plot line leaves many more questions than answers, its a beautiful scene and its amazing to see Mothra come back as the first non-Godzilla returning Toho kaiju in the Monsterverse (excluding Ghidorah's consciousness inside of Mechagodzilla and Rodan and her own's brief cameo in Godzilla Dominion of course)... But it does initially seem to impede on pre-established lore... At least at first glance.
While I absolutely agree that this rebirth comes completely out of nowhere in the film and initially doesn't add up with what KOTM suggested, I will also point out that I believe people are getting too caught up on certain details from KOTM and aren't thinking outside the box enough with what is happening in this scene. So, allow me to explain the original KOTM setup for Mothra's rebirth, and then explain my theory on why I think Mothra's GxK rebirth isn't a retcon.
In KOTM, we are formally introduced to Mothra in the Monsterverse after she was teased alongside Rodan and King Ghidorah in Kong: Skull Island's post credits scene. Here in KOTM, it is established that Mothra is a flesh and blood creature that is the closest thing to a deity that nature and evolution can give rise to. While she is still a form of asexually reproducing insect, presumably a species of moth though she does possess more wasp-like attributes, she possesses powers and abilities not seen in anywhere else in the animal kingdom. The ability to resonate with the Earth itself, insects and whales seemingly responding to her calls and mere existence, her bioluminescent light radiating off her to the point she can create her own sunlight referred to as god rays, and most important to our discussion; her ability to pass her memories down to her offspring via genetics (affectively making her mind immortal), AND her symbiosis with Godzilla which I will explain the relevance of later.
In KOTM, we see all these abilities and more portrayed on screen in some form, and in the specific case of her offspring we get a little side note in KOTM's credits about a "massive insect egg" that Monarch had discovered deep into Mothra's territory, heavily implying that this egg belonged to Mothra. I believe Michael Dougherty later confirmed this to be the case when asked about it on Twitter. We also have been made aware that in both KOTM and GvK there were cut post credits scenes that showed this egg hatching and teasing Mothra's return in future installments of the Monsterverse.
With this information in mind, its no surprise people held onto this! Not only has KOTM and GvK at some point wanted to expand on this idea and have it be the way Mothra returns to the series, but its also simply just been the way Mothra has worked in the past. In most Mothra depictions, her "rebirth" is more often than not her own offspring taking up her role after her death, some of which being literal reincarnations of her and some simply taking her title. This is a consistent aspect of Mothra's identity so I cannot blame anyone for being upset that this seemingly important detail was "retconned" out of GxK, and I myself was also upset about this! But... I think we need to think a little outside the box to understand what is really happening here...
I am now going to explain my theory, which I will be calling the "Symbiotic Rebirth Theory." This theory will attempt to explain the how and why of Mothra's GxK rebirth while attempting to make sure that the massive insect egg that Monarch is currently still in possession of is not retconned out of existence. We've already lost enough from the KOTM credits sequence.
In KOTM, alongside all the other strange and glorious abilities we see Mothra capable of, the most notable may be her symbiotic relationship with Godzilla. While this symbiotic relationship is often chalked up to the two creatures having a close bond of sorts, and that is definitely part of the equation given how the Monsterverse iterations of these two characters interact with one another, it is a lot more than just that. Symbiotic relationships in nature are often categorized into three groups; parasitism, commensalism, and mutualism.
Parasitism is one of the easiest to understand, its the relationship between a parasite and a host, where the parasite benefits from the host and the host is actively harmed or killed by the parasite. We actually have an example of this in the Monsterverse, with the parasitic nature the MUTOs and their MUTO Prime possess. These creatures parasitize radiation from other titans, especially in their spore phase, but seemingly still do it to some degree in their adult stage.
Commensalism is a symbiotic relationship in which only one organism is benefited, while the other is neither benefited or harmed. An example of this would be say, small birds eating insects stirred by other animals stomping, or a squirrel creating a nest in an oak tree.
Then we have mutualism, which is a symbiotic relationship in which both organisms are benefited in some way, a good example being the relationship of sharks and remoras where remoras will feed off of the parasites on the shark's body. This gives the remora a food source and the shark is relieved from its unwanted passengers.
So, with this mind, what kind of symbiotic relationship do Godzilla and Mothra possess? Well we can immediately rule out parasitism as the two are clearly on good terms with each other and have never once exhibited a parasitic bond, however commensalism and mutualism are a bit trickier to decide on, so lets list off the properties of Godzilla and Mothra's symbiosis:
- Godzilla and Mothra work together as the planet's protectors, while Godzilla can easily lose his way in the fight for the planet, Mothra is often there to keep his head in the game and instruct many of his actions. We see this in GxK especially where she convinces him that Kong is no threat, and we also see if when she calls out to Godzilla after her emergence in KOTM only to find out he's on the verge of death where she seemingly waits for him. They're sort of a brawns and brains dynamic, Godzilla does the heavy lifting so that Mothra can strategize and provide him with instructions.
- Mothra is able to withstand the alpha cry of Ghidorah, and seemingly any other titan masquerading as the king of monsters, which implies a sense of loyalty to Godzilla and Godzilla alone. Meanwhile Godzilla being snapped out of his murderous rage by her in GxK could also imply a sense of loyalty and trust between the two. We even see in GvK that Mothra was involved in the Gojira vs. Great-Ape war via the cave paintings seen in the opening credits, again implying her loyalty to Godzilla.
- Mothra more often than not puts herself in harms way to protect Godzilla, we see this both in KOTM and GxK where Mothra fights Ghidorah and Rodan when Godzilla cant and stops Shimo's ice blast from freezing him to death in each respective movie. Most notably for the theory however, Mothra sacrifices her own life for Godzilla when Ghidorah is about to kill him. She shields his body and takes the blast for him, being vaporized into atoms in mere seconds.
- The atoms that Mothra was vaporized into then "fuse" with Godzilla, allowing him to transform into the apex of Godzilla and Mothra's symbiosis; Thermonuclear Godzilla. Thermonuclear Godzilla (or more simply referred to as Burning Godzilla and what I will continue to call this form from here on because its easier to type) is what happens when Godzilla, Mothra's essence, and a absolutely massive amount of radioactive power all fuse into one, and it is a rather powerful and exponential form the Monsterverse Godzilla can take.
This is all we know about their symbiosis, and due to the way they act towards each other and the information provided, we can safely assume that this is a mutualistic relationship. However, we must ask what exactly does Mothra get out of Burning Godzilla in particular? Sure, Mothra's intended goal is to protect the planet from devastation and she can simply rebirth herself after her demise, but the creation of Burning Godzilla really does rely on Mothra ending her own life in order for it to happen. I know this is a fantastical series, and the kaiju often level on more human-like intelligence and emotions, but I have a hard time believing that Mothra's species actively evolved with with trait if it didn't mean something more than just a temporary powerup for Godzilla. In the words of Madison Russel, there has to be more that we're not seeing here... And I believe I have an idea.
When Burning Godzilla is formed, and even after this form's time is out, there's an odd implication in the air that Mothra still exists within Godzilla somehow. When Burning Godzilla utilizes his nuclear pulse ability, we can hear Mothra's faint cries in the explosion as well as see the unmistakable pattern of her wings in the pulse's energy (it is much easier to see in motion, refer back to the video of Burning Godzilla I linked if need be), implying that in some sense she is still alive and perhaps this nuclear pulse is her. We already established she was atomized so whose to say, with this evidence in mind, that the atoms Godzilla is pulsing out are made of her. There's also an implication that this symbiosis has a permanent affect on Godzilla in Godzilla Dominion, where he now has "the moth's gift" that allows him to to sense the planet's very being and all the creatures that inhabit it, which is an important detail for later.
In GxK, when Mothra is rebirthed, a very interesting visual is shown to us as she is born. Her body rematerializes (MAJOR SPOILERS ON THIS LINK BE WARNED), much in the same way it was atomized as she died in KOTM. In fact, the atoms that build up her body as she forms are suspiciously the same color, or at least a very similar color, to the atoms that Burning Godzilla was producing in his nuclear pulses. She is being reformed in a fiery blaze of light, much the same way she became Burning Godzilla's flaming nuclear pulses!
So here's the theory, I believe that Mothra's rebirth in GxK is meant to tie in with her death on KOTM. When Burning Godzilla was formed, it released what was left of Mothra via each nuclear pulse, which is verifiable because we can actively hear and see that Mothra is a part of those nuclear pulses. Since matter continues to exist and never ceases to be, those atoms that once made up Mothra continued to exist in the ether, potentially even sentient enough to understand she needed to return to the Hollow Earth and station what was left of her in the Iwi city to await the prophecy. Jia would then arrive there nearly a decade later, when she could then activate Mothra's rebirth, where the fiery atoms that emitted from Burning Godzilla now fuse back into Mothra in this gorgeous blazing light! And remember how Godzilla was permanently affected by Mothra fusing with him, how part of her powers stayed behind within him? I believe Godzilla bestowed a gift onto this Mothra form too, as its very clear that she has a new fiery orange and white color scheme which synchronizes really well with Burning Godzilla's fiery appearance, perhaps having been fused with that form of Godzilla she too has entered a new fiery form of her own, and this is her ultimate form caused by their symbiosis, this is what she ultimately gets out of fusing with Godzilla! A new more powerful form!! This would also make this Mothra not only the same Mothra from KOTM, but also technically the same body! Meaning that Mothra truly is back after her demise in KOTM!!
Now I'm sure there are many... MANY holes in this theory, things like "How did Mothra's atoms arrive in the Hollow Earth?" or "Why did Jia need to activate Mothra's rebirth if it was part of Godzilla and Mothra's symbiosis all along?" and really I don't have any good answers for those, and I'm also sure the novelization probably has something in it that contradicts my whole theory... But I will at least give my answer for what's up with Mothra's egg. I think there are a few different ways to interpret the egg now, the first answer is that the egg was laid way in advance for Mothra's demise. I mean, the egg in KOTM according to Dougherty was waiting to hatch for nearly 10,000 years, so perhaps the egg currently in Monarch's possession isn't due for a long long time. Another answer is that maybe its setting up for a second Mothra, maybe a Monsterverse equivalent of Mothra Leo! My final idea is that maybe it isn't a Mothra egg at all, KOTM's credits do question if it actually is a Mothra egg or if it belongs to something else. This one could potentially setup for Battra or some sort of Monsterverse equivalent to spawn from the egg, which could actually result in an interesting plot!
Keep in mind this is all just a theory, and I am very willing to make a discussion out of this! This was an aspect of the film that really bothered me on first viewing so I tried to find a way it could work without ruining pre-established lore, and I hope that this idea helps make it more digestible for others who had issues with Mothra's rebirth! Thank you for taking the time to read and do let me know what you think! :D
submitted by _Evergreene_ to Monsterverse [link] [comments]
I have seen a lot of discussion and complaints about Mothra's portrayal in GxK, and while I agree it could've been handled a lot better and clearer than what we got, I have noticed that a lot of people are caught up on a specific element of her portrayal in the film; Mothra's rebirth.
During the events of GxK, we are introduced to a Hollow Earth Iwi civilization whose lore tell a prophecy of an Iwi from Skull Island (Jia) coming down to the Hollow Earth to enact the rebirth of Mothra. Upon realizing that this fabled Iwi is Jia, she is prepared for the ceremony where she climbs to the peak of one of the Iwi pyramids where... Mothra seemingly just, materializes out of thin air..? No questions asked..? Needless to say, this whole plot line leaves many more questions than answers, its a beautiful scene and its amazing to see Mothra come back as the first non-Godzilla returning Toho kaiju in the Monsterverse (excluding Ghidorah's consciousness inside of Mechagodzilla and Rodan and her own's brief cameo in Godzilla Dominion of course)... But it does initially seem to impede on pre-established lore... At least at first glance.
While I absolutely agree that this rebirth comes completely out of nowhere in the film and initially doesn't add up with what KOTM suggested, I will also point out that I believe people are getting too caught up on certain details from KOTM and aren't thinking outside the box enough with what is happening in this scene. So, allow me to explain the original KOTM setup for Mothra's rebirth, and then explain my theory on why I think Mothra's GxK rebirth isn't a retcon.
In KOTM, we are formally introduced to Mothra in the Monsterverse after she was teased alongside Rodan and King Ghidorah in Kong: Skull Island's post credits scene. Here in KOTM, it is established that Mothra is a flesh and blood creature that is the closest thing to a deity that nature and evolution can give rise to. While she is still a form of asexually reproducing insect, presumably a species of moth though she does possess more wasp-like attributes, she possesses powers and abilities not seen in anywhere else in the animal kingdom. The ability to resonate with the Earth itself, insects and whales seemingly responding to her calls and mere existence, her bioluminescent light radiating off her to the point she can create her own sunlight referred to as god rays, and most important to our discussion; her ability to pass her memories down to her offspring via genetics (affectively making her mind immortal), AND her symbiosis with Godzilla which I will explain the relevance of later.
In KOTM, we see all these abilities and more portrayed on screen in some form, and in the specific case of her offspring we get a little side note in KOTM's credits about a "massive insect egg" that Monarch had discovered deep into Mothra's territory, heavily implying that this egg belonged to Mothra. I believe Michael Dougherty later confirmed this to be the case when asked about it on Twitter. We also have been made aware that in both KOTM and GvK there were cut post credits scenes that showed this egg hatching and teasing Mothra's return in future installments of the Monsterverse.
With this information in mind, its no surprise people held onto this! Not only has KOTM and GvK at some point wanted to expand on this idea and have it be the way Mothra returns to the series, but its also simply just been the way Mothra has worked in the past. In most Mothra depictions, her "rebirth" is more often than not her own offspring taking up her role after her death, some of which being literal reincarnations of her and some simply taking her title. This is a consistent aspect of Mothra's identity so I cannot blame anyone for being upset that this seemingly important detail was "retconned" out of GxK, and I myself was also upset about this! But... I think we need to think a little outside the box to understand what is really happening here...
I am now going to explain my theory, which I will be calling the "Symbiotic Rebirth Theory." This theory will attempt to explain the how and why of Mothra's GxK rebirth while attempting to make sure that the massive insect egg that Monarch is currently still in possession of is not retconned out of existence. We've already lost enough from the KOTM credits sequence.
In KOTM, alongside all the other strange and glorious abilities we see Mothra capable of, the most notable may be her symbiotic relationship with Godzilla. While this symbiotic relationship is often chalked up to the two creatures having a close bond of sorts, and that is definitely part of the equation given how the Monsterverse iterations of these two characters interact with one another, it is a lot more than just that. Symbiotic relationships in nature are often categorized into three groups; parasitism, commensalism, and mutualism.
Parasitism is one of the easiest to understand, its the relationship between a parasite and a host, where the parasite benefits from the host and the host is actively harmed or killed by the parasite. We actually have an example of this in the Monsterverse, with the parasitic nature the MUTOs and their MUTO Prime possess. These creatures parasitize radiation from other titans, especially in their spore phase, but seemingly still do it to some degree in their adult stage.
Commensalism is a symbiotic relationship in which only one organism is benefited, while the other is neither benefited or harmed. An example of this would be say, small birds eating insects stirred by other animals stomping, or a squirrel creating a nest in an oak tree.
Then we have mutualism, which is a symbiotic relationship in which both organisms are benefited in some way, a good example being the relationship of sharks and remoras where remoras will feed off of the parasites on the shark's body. This gives the remora a food source and the shark is relieved from its unwanted passengers.
So, with this mind, what kind of symbiotic relationship do Godzilla and Mothra possess? Well we can immediately rule out parasitism as the two are clearly on good terms with each other and have never once exhibited a parasitic bond, however commensalism and mutualism are a bit trickier to decide on, so lets list off the properties of Godzilla and Mothra's symbiosis:
- Godzilla and Mothra work together as the planet's protectors, while Godzilla can easily lose his way in the fight for the planet, Mothra is often there to keep his head in the game and instruct many of his actions. We see this in GxK especially where she convinces him that Kong is no threat, and we also see if when she calls out to Godzilla after her emergence in KOTM only to find out he's on the verge of death where she seemingly waits for him. They're sort of a brawns and brains dynamic, Godzilla does the heavy lifting so that Mothra can strategize and provide him with instructions.
- Mothra is able to withstand the alpha cry of Ghidorah, and seemingly any other titan masquerading as the king of monsters, which implies a sense of loyalty to Godzilla and Godzilla alone. Meanwhile Godzilla being snapped out of his murderous rage by her in GxK could also imply a sense of loyalty and trust between the two. We even see in GvK that Mothra was involved in the Gojira vs. Great-Ape war via the cave paintings seen in the opening credits, again implying her loyalty to Godzilla.
- Mothra more often than not puts herself in harms way to protect Godzilla, we see this both in KOTM and GxK where Mothra fights Ghidorah and Rodan when Godzilla cant and stops Shimo's ice blast from freezing him to death in each respective movie. Most notably for the theory however, Mothra sacrifices her own life for Godzilla when Ghidorah is about to kill him. She shields his body and takes the blast for him, being vaporized into atoms in mere seconds.
- The atoms that Mothra was vaporized into then "fuse" with Godzilla, allowing him to transform into the apex of Godzilla and Mothra's symbiosis; Thermonuclear Godzilla. Thermonuclear Godzilla (or more simply referred to as Burning Godzilla and what I will continue to call this form from here on because its easier to type) is what happens when Godzilla, Mothra's essence, and a absolutely massive amount of radioactive power all fuse into one, and it is a rather powerful and exponential form the Monsterverse Godzilla can take.
This is all we know about their symbiosis, and due to the way they act towards each other and the information provided, we can safely assume that this is a mutualistic relationship. However, we must ask what exactly does Mothra get out of Burning Godzilla in particular? Sure, Mothra's intended goal is to protect the planet from devastation and she can simply rebirth herself after her demise, but the creation of Burning Godzilla really does rely on Mothra ending her own life in order for it to happen. I know this is a fantastical series, and the kaiju often level on more human-like intelligence and emotions, but I have a hard time believing that Mothra's species actively evolved with with trait if it didn't mean something more than just a temporary powerup for Godzilla. In the words of Madison Russel, there has to be more that we're not seeing here... And I believe I have an idea.
When Burning Godzilla is formed, and even after this form's time is out, there's an odd implication in the air that Mothra still exists within Godzilla somehow. When Burning Godzilla utilizes his nuclear pulse ability, we can hear Mothra's faint cries in the explosion as well as see the unmistakable pattern of her wings in the pulse's energy (it is much easier to see in motion, refer back to the video of Burning Godzilla I linked if need be), implying that in some sense she is still alive and perhaps this nuclear pulse is her. We already established she was atomized so whose to say, with this evidence in mind, that the atoms Godzilla is pulsing out are made of her. There's also an implication that this symbiosis has a permanent affect on Godzilla in Godzilla Dominion, where he now has "the moth's gift" that allows him to to sense the planet's very being and all the creatures that inhabit it, which is an important detail for later.
In GxK, when Mothra is rebirthed, a very interesting visual is shown to us as she is born. Her body rematerializes (MAJOR SPOILERS ON THIS LINK BE WARNED), much in the same way it was atomized as she died in KOTM. In fact, the atoms that build up her body as she forms are suspiciously the same color, or at least a very similar color, to the atoms that Burning Godzilla was producing in his nuclear pulses. She is being reformed in a fiery blaze of light, much the same way she became Burning Godzilla's flaming nuclear pulses!
So here's the theory, I believe that Mothra's rebirth in GxK is meant to tie in with her death on KOTM. When Burning Godzilla was formed, it released what was left of Mothra via each nuclear pulse, which is verifiable because we can actively hear and see that Mothra is a part of those nuclear pulses. Since matter continues to exist and never ceases to be, those atoms that once made up Mothra continued to exist in the ether, potentially even sentient enough to understand she needed to return to the Hollow Earth and station what was left of her in the Iwi city to await the prophecy. Jia would then arrive there nearly a decade later, when she could then activate Mothra's rebirth, where the fiery atoms that emitted from Burning Godzilla now fuse back into Mothra in this gorgeous blazing light! And remember how Godzilla was permanently affected by Mothra fusing with him, how part of her powers stayed behind within him? I believe Godzilla bestowed a gift onto this Mothra form too, as its very clear that she has a new fiery orange and white color scheme which synchronizes really well with Burning Godzilla's fiery appearance, perhaps having been fused with that form of Godzilla she too has entered a new fiery form of her own, and this is her ultimate form caused by their symbiosis, this is what she ultimately gets out of fusing with Godzilla! A new more powerful form!! This would also make this Mothra not only the same Mothra from KOTM, but also technically the same body! Meaning that Mothra truly is back after her demise in KOTM!!
Now I'm sure there are many... MANY holes in this theory, things like "How did Mothra's atoms arrive in the Hollow Earth?" or "Why did Jia need to activate Mothra's rebirth if it was part of Godzilla and Mothra's symbiosis all along?" and really I don't have any good answers for those, and I'm also sure the novelization probably has something in it that contradicts my whole theory... But I will at least give my answer for what's up with Mothra's egg. I think there are a few different ways to interpret the egg now, the first answer is that the egg was laid way in advance for Mothra's demise. I mean, the egg in KOTM according to Dougherty was waiting to hatch for nearly 10,000 years, so perhaps the egg currently in Monarch's possession isn't due for a long long time. Another answer is that maybe its setting up for a second Mothra, maybe a Monsterverse equivalent of Mothra Leo! My final idea is that maybe it isn't a Mothra egg at all, KOTM's credits do question if it actually is a Mothra egg or if it belongs to something else. This one could potentially setup for Battra or some sort of Monsterverse equivalent to spawn from the egg, which could actually result in an interesting plot!
Keep in mind this is all just a theory, and I am very willing to make a discussion out of this! This was an aspect of the film that really bothered me on first viewing so I tried to find a way it could work without ruining pre-established lore, and I hope that this idea helps make it more digestible for others who had issues with Mothra's rebirth! Thank you for taking the time to read and do let me know what you think! :D
2024.04.10 17:24 _Evergreene_ (SPOILERS) Symbiotic Rebirth Theory: A Theory About a Certain Kaiju's Rebirth in GxK
Hello all! This is my first time posting to this subreddit, I had a little idea I wanted to share with you all and I hope it creates a little discussion about this plot point going forward! This theory is spoiler heavy for Godzilla x Kong: The New Empire, so if you have not seen the film just yet you have been warned about any potential spoilers I'll be discussing here! Lets begin!
I have seen a lot of discussion and complaints about Mothra's portrayal in GxK, and while I agree it could've been handled a lot better and clearer than what we got, I have noticed that a lot of people are caught up on a specific element of her portrayal in the film; Mothra's rebirth.
During the events of GxK, we are introduced to a Hollow Earth Iwi civilization whose lore tell a prophecy of an Iwi from Skull Island (Jia) coming down to the Hollow Earth to enact the rebirth of Mothra. Upon realizing that this fabled Iwi is Jia, she is prepared for the ceremony where she climbs to the peak of one of the Iwi pyramids where... Mothra seemingly just, materializes out of thin air..? No questions asked..? Needless to say, this whole plot line leaves many more questions than answers, its a beautiful scene and its amazing to see Mothra come back as the first non-Godzilla returning Toho kaiju in the Monsterverse (excluding Ghidorah's consciousness inside of Mechagodzilla and Rodan and her own's brief cameo in Godzilla Dominion of course)... But it does initially seem to impede on pre-established lore... At least at first glance.
While I absolutely agree that this rebirth comes completely out of nowhere in the film and initially doesn't add up with what KOTM suggested, I will also point out that I believe people are getting too caught up on certain details from KOTM and aren't thinking outside the box enough with what is happening in this scene. So, allow me to explain the original KOTM setup for Mothra's rebirth, and then explain my theory on why I think Mothra's GxK rebirth isn't a retcon.
In KOTM, we are formally introduced to Mothra in the Monsterverse after she was teased alongside Rodan and King Ghidorah in Kong: Skull Island's post credits scene. Here in KOTM, it is established that Mothra is a flesh and blood creature that is the closest thing to a deity that nature and evolution can give rise to. While she is still a form of asexually reproducing insect, presumably a species of moth though she does possess more wasp-like attributes, she possesses powers and abilities not seen in anywhere else in the animal kingdom. The ability to resonate with the Earth itself, insects and whales seemingly responding to her calls and mere existence, her bioluminescent light radiating off her to the point she can create her own sunlight referred to as god rays, and most important to our discussion; her ability to pass her memories down to her offspring via genetics (affectively making her mind immortal), AND her symbiosis with Godzilla which I will explain the relevance of later.
In KOTM, we see all these abilities and more portrayed on screen in some form, and in the specific case of her offspring we get a little side note in KOTM's credits about a "massive insect egg" that Monarch had discovered deep into Mothra's territory, heavily implying that this egg belonged to Mothra. I believe Michael Dougherty later confirmed this to be the case when asked about it on Twitter. We also have been made aware that in both KOTM and GvK there were cut post credits scenes that showed this egg hatching and teasing Mothra's return in future installments of the Monsterverse.
With this information in mind, its no surprise people held onto this! Not only has KOTM and GvK at some point wanted to expand on this idea and have it be the way Mothra returns to the series, but its also simply just been the way Mothra has worked in the past. In most Mothra depictions, her "rebirth" is more often than not her own offspring taking up her role after her death, some of which being literal reincarnations of her and some simply taking her title. This is a consistent aspect of Mothra's identity so I cannot blame anyone for being upset that this seemingly important detail was "retconned" out of GxK, and I myself was also upset about this! But... I think we need to think a little outside the box to understand what is really happening here...
I am now going to explain my theory, which I will be calling the "Symbiotic Rebirth Theory." This theory will attempt to explain the how and why of Mothra's GxK rebirth while attempting to make sure that the massive insect egg that Monarch is currently still in possession of is not retconned out of existence. We've already lost enough from the KOTM credits sequence.
In KOTM, alongside all the other strange and glorious abilities we see Mothra capable of, the most notable may be her symbiotic relationship with Godzilla. While this symbiotic relationship is often chalked up to the two creatures having a close bond of sorts, and that is definitely part of the equation given how the Monsterverse iterations of these two characters interact with one another, it is a lot more than just that. Symbiotic relationships in nature are often categorized into three groups; parasitism, commensalism, and mutualism.
Parasitism is one of the easiest to understand, its the relationship between a parasite and a host, where the parasite benefits from the host and the host is actively harmed or killed by the parasite. We actually have an example of this in the Monsterverse, with the parasitic nature the MUTOs and their MUTO Prime possess. These creatures parasitize radiation from other titans, especially in their spore phase, but seemingly still do it to some degree in their adult stage.
Commensalism is a symbiotic relationship in which only one organism is benefited, while the other is neither benefited or harmed. An example of this would be say, small birds eating insects stirred by other animals stomping, or a squirrel creating a nest in an oak tree.
Then we have mutualism, which is a symbiotic relationship in which both organisms are benefited in some way, a good example being the relationship of sharks and remoras where remoras will feed off of the parasites on the shark's body. This gives the remora a food source and the shark is relieved from its unwanted passengers.
So, with this mind, what kind of symbiotic relationship do Godzilla and Mothra possess? Well we can immediately rule out parasitism as the two are clearly on good terms with each other and have never once exhibited a parasitic bond, however commensalism and mutualism are a bit trickier to decide on, so lets list off the properties of Godzilla and Mothra's symbiosis:
- Godzilla and Mothra work together as the planet's protectors, while Godzilla can easily lose his way in the fight for the planet, Mothra is often there to keep his head in the game and instruct many of his actions. We see this in GxK especially where she convinces him that Kong is no threat, and we also see if when she calls out to Godzilla after her emergence in KOTM only to find out he's on the verge of death where she seemingly waits for him. They're sort of a brawns and brains dynamic, Godzilla does the heavy lifting so that Mothra can strategize and provide him with instructions.
- Mothra is able to withstand the alpha cry of Ghidorah, and seemingly any other titan masquerading as the king of monsters, which implies a sense of loyalty to Godzilla and Godzilla alone. Meanwhile Godzilla being snapped out of his murderous rage by her in GxK could also imply a sense of loyalty and trust between the two. We even see in GvK that Mothra was involved in the Gojira vs. Great-Ape war via the cave paintings seen in the opening credits, again implying her loyalty to Godzilla.
- Mothra more often than not puts herself in harms way to protect Godzilla, we see this both in KOTM and GxK where Mothra fights Ghidorah and Rodan when Godzilla cant and stops Shimo's ice blast from freezing him to death in each respective movie. Most notably for the theory however, Mothra sacrifices her own life for Godzilla when Ghidorah is about to kill him. She shields his body and takes the blast for him, being vaporized into atoms in mere seconds.
- The atoms that Mothra was vaporized into then "fuse" with Godzilla, allowing him to transform into the apex of Godzilla and Mothra's symbiosis; Thermonuclear Godzilla. Thermonuclear Godzilla (or more simply referred to as Burning Godzilla and what I will continue to call this form from here on because its easier to type) is what happens when Godzilla, Mothra's essence, and a absolutely massive amount of radioactive power all fuse into one, and it is a rather powerful and exponential form the Monsterverse Godzilla can take.
This is all we know about their symbiosis, and due to the way they act towards each other and the information provided, we can safely assume that this is a mutualistic relationship. However, we must ask what exactly does Mothra get out of Burning Godzilla in particular? Sure, Mothra's intended goal is to protect the planet from devastation and she can simply rebirth herself after her demise, but the creation of Burning Godzilla really does rely on Mothra ending her own life in order for it to happen. I know this is a fantastical series, and the kaiju often level on more human-like intelligence and emotions, but I have a hard time believing that Mothra's species actively evolved with with trait if it didn't mean something more than just a temporary powerup for Godzilla. In the words of Madison Russel, there has to be more that we're not seeing here... And I believe I have an idea.
When Burning Godzilla is formed, and even after this form's time is out, there's an odd implication in the air that Mothra still exists within Godzilla somehow. When Burning Godzilla utilizes his nuclear pulse ability, we can hear Mothra's faint cries in the explosion as well as see the unmistakable pattern of her wings in the pulse's energy (it is much easier to see in motion, refer back to the video of Burning Godzilla I linked if need be), implying that in some sense she is still alive and perhaps this nuclear pulse is her. We already established she was atomized so whose to say, with this evidence in mind, that the atoms Godzilla is pulsing out are made of her. There's also an implication that this symbiosis has a permanent affect on Godzilla in Godzilla Dominion, where he now has "the moth's gift" that allows him to to sense the planet's very being and all the creatures that inhabit it, which is an important detail for later.
In GxK, when Mothra is rebirthed, a very interesting visual is shown to us as she is born. Her body rematerializes (MAJOR SPOILERS ON THIS LINK BE WARNED), much in the same way it was atomized as she died in KOTM. In fact, the atoms that build up her body as she forms are suspiciously the same color, or at least a very similar color, to the atoms that Burning Godzilla was producing in his nuclear pulses. She is being reformed in a fiery blaze of light, much the same way she became Burning Godzilla's flaming nuclear pulses!
So here's the theory, I believe that Mothra's rebirth in GxK is meant to tie in with her death on KOTM. When Burning Godzilla was formed, it released what was left of Mothra via each nuclear pulse, which is verifiable because we can actively hear and see that Mothra is a part of those nuclear pulses. Since matter continues to exist and never ceases to be, those atoms that once made up Mothra continued to exist in the ether, potentially even sentient enough to understand she needed to return to the Hollow Earth and station what was left of her in the Iwi city to await the prophecy. Jia would then arrive there nearly a decade later, when she could then activate Mothra's rebirth, where the fiery atoms that emitted from Burning Godzilla now fuse back into Mothra in this gorgeous blazing light! And remember how Godzilla was permanently affected by Mothra fusing with him, how part of her powers stayed behind within him? I believe Godzilla bestowed a gift onto this Mothra form too, as its very clear that she has a new fiery orange and white color scheme which synchronizes really well with Burning Godzilla's fiery appearance, perhaps having been fused with that form of Godzilla she too has entered a new fiery form of her own, and this is her ultimate form caused by their symbiosis, this is what she ultimately gets out of fusing with Godzilla! A new more powerful form!! This would also make this Mothra not only the same Mothra from KOTM, but also technically the same body! Meaning that Mothra truly is back after her demise in KOTM!!
Now I'm sure there are many... MANY holes in this theory, things like "How did Mothra's atoms arrive in the Hollow Earth?" or "Why did Jia need to activate Mothra's rebirth if it was part of Godzilla and Mothra's symbiosis all along?" and really I don't have any good answers for those, and I'm also sure the novelization probably has something in it that contradicts my whole theory... But I will at least give my answer for what's up with Mothra's egg. I think there are a few different ways to interpret the egg now, the first answer is that the egg was laid way in advance for Mothra's demise. I mean, the egg in KOTM according to Dougherty was waiting to hatch for nearly 10,000 years, so perhaps the egg currently in Monarch's possession isn't due for a long long time. Another answer is that maybe its setting up for a second Mothra, maybe a Monsterverse equivalent of Mothra Leo! My final idea is that maybe it isn't a Mothra egg at all, KOTM's credits do question if it actually is a Mothra egg or if it belongs to something else. This one could potentially setup for Battra or some sort of Monsterverse equivalent to spawn from the egg, which could actually result in an interesting plot!
Keep in mind this is all just a theory, and I am very willing to make a discussion out of this! This was an aspect of the film that really bothered me on first viewing so I tried to find a way it could work without ruining pre-established lore, and I hope that this idea helps make it more digestible for others who had issues with Mothra's rebirth! Thank you for taking the time to read and do let me know what you think! :D
submitted by _Evergreene_ to GODZILLA [link] [comments]
I have seen a lot of discussion and complaints about Mothra's portrayal in GxK, and while I agree it could've been handled a lot better and clearer than what we got, I have noticed that a lot of people are caught up on a specific element of her portrayal in the film; Mothra's rebirth.
During the events of GxK, we are introduced to a Hollow Earth Iwi civilization whose lore tell a prophecy of an Iwi from Skull Island (Jia) coming down to the Hollow Earth to enact the rebirth of Mothra. Upon realizing that this fabled Iwi is Jia, she is prepared for the ceremony where she climbs to the peak of one of the Iwi pyramids where... Mothra seemingly just, materializes out of thin air..? No questions asked..? Needless to say, this whole plot line leaves many more questions than answers, its a beautiful scene and its amazing to see Mothra come back as the first non-Godzilla returning Toho kaiju in the Monsterverse (excluding Ghidorah's consciousness inside of Mechagodzilla and Rodan and her own's brief cameo in Godzilla Dominion of course)... But it does initially seem to impede on pre-established lore... At least at first glance.
While I absolutely agree that this rebirth comes completely out of nowhere in the film and initially doesn't add up with what KOTM suggested, I will also point out that I believe people are getting too caught up on certain details from KOTM and aren't thinking outside the box enough with what is happening in this scene. So, allow me to explain the original KOTM setup for Mothra's rebirth, and then explain my theory on why I think Mothra's GxK rebirth isn't a retcon.
In KOTM, we are formally introduced to Mothra in the Monsterverse after she was teased alongside Rodan and King Ghidorah in Kong: Skull Island's post credits scene. Here in KOTM, it is established that Mothra is a flesh and blood creature that is the closest thing to a deity that nature and evolution can give rise to. While she is still a form of asexually reproducing insect, presumably a species of moth though she does possess more wasp-like attributes, she possesses powers and abilities not seen in anywhere else in the animal kingdom. The ability to resonate with the Earth itself, insects and whales seemingly responding to her calls and mere existence, her bioluminescent light radiating off her to the point she can create her own sunlight referred to as god rays, and most important to our discussion; her ability to pass her memories down to her offspring via genetics (affectively making her mind immortal), AND her symbiosis with Godzilla which I will explain the relevance of later.
In KOTM, we see all these abilities and more portrayed on screen in some form, and in the specific case of her offspring we get a little side note in KOTM's credits about a "massive insect egg" that Monarch had discovered deep into Mothra's territory, heavily implying that this egg belonged to Mothra. I believe Michael Dougherty later confirmed this to be the case when asked about it on Twitter. We also have been made aware that in both KOTM and GvK there were cut post credits scenes that showed this egg hatching and teasing Mothra's return in future installments of the Monsterverse.
With this information in mind, its no surprise people held onto this! Not only has KOTM and GvK at some point wanted to expand on this idea and have it be the way Mothra returns to the series, but its also simply just been the way Mothra has worked in the past. In most Mothra depictions, her "rebirth" is more often than not her own offspring taking up her role after her death, some of which being literal reincarnations of her and some simply taking her title. This is a consistent aspect of Mothra's identity so I cannot blame anyone for being upset that this seemingly important detail was "retconned" out of GxK, and I myself was also upset about this! But... I think we need to think a little outside the box to understand what is really happening here...
I am now going to explain my theory, which I will be calling the "Symbiotic Rebirth Theory." This theory will attempt to explain the how and why of Mothra's GxK rebirth while attempting to make sure that the massive insect egg that Monarch is currently still in possession of is not retconned out of existence. We've already lost enough from the KOTM credits sequence.
In KOTM, alongside all the other strange and glorious abilities we see Mothra capable of, the most notable may be her symbiotic relationship with Godzilla. While this symbiotic relationship is often chalked up to the two creatures having a close bond of sorts, and that is definitely part of the equation given how the Monsterverse iterations of these two characters interact with one another, it is a lot more than just that. Symbiotic relationships in nature are often categorized into three groups; parasitism, commensalism, and mutualism.
Parasitism is one of the easiest to understand, its the relationship between a parasite and a host, where the parasite benefits from the host and the host is actively harmed or killed by the parasite. We actually have an example of this in the Monsterverse, with the parasitic nature the MUTOs and their MUTO Prime possess. These creatures parasitize radiation from other titans, especially in their spore phase, but seemingly still do it to some degree in their adult stage.
Commensalism is a symbiotic relationship in which only one organism is benefited, while the other is neither benefited or harmed. An example of this would be say, small birds eating insects stirred by other animals stomping, or a squirrel creating a nest in an oak tree.
Then we have mutualism, which is a symbiotic relationship in which both organisms are benefited in some way, a good example being the relationship of sharks and remoras where remoras will feed off of the parasites on the shark's body. This gives the remora a food source and the shark is relieved from its unwanted passengers.
So, with this mind, what kind of symbiotic relationship do Godzilla and Mothra possess? Well we can immediately rule out parasitism as the two are clearly on good terms with each other and have never once exhibited a parasitic bond, however commensalism and mutualism are a bit trickier to decide on, so lets list off the properties of Godzilla and Mothra's symbiosis:
- Godzilla and Mothra work together as the planet's protectors, while Godzilla can easily lose his way in the fight for the planet, Mothra is often there to keep his head in the game and instruct many of his actions. We see this in GxK especially where she convinces him that Kong is no threat, and we also see if when she calls out to Godzilla after her emergence in KOTM only to find out he's on the verge of death where she seemingly waits for him. They're sort of a brawns and brains dynamic, Godzilla does the heavy lifting so that Mothra can strategize and provide him with instructions.
- Mothra is able to withstand the alpha cry of Ghidorah, and seemingly any other titan masquerading as the king of monsters, which implies a sense of loyalty to Godzilla and Godzilla alone. Meanwhile Godzilla being snapped out of his murderous rage by her in GxK could also imply a sense of loyalty and trust between the two. We even see in GvK that Mothra was involved in the Gojira vs. Great-Ape war via the cave paintings seen in the opening credits, again implying her loyalty to Godzilla.
- Mothra more often than not puts herself in harms way to protect Godzilla, we see this both in KOTM and GxK where Mothra fights Ghidorah and Rodan when Godzilla cant and stops Shimo's ice blast from freezing him to death in each respective movie. Most notably for the theory however, Mothra sacrifices her own life for Godzilla when Ghidorah is about to kill him. She shields his body and takes the blast for him, being vaporized into atoms in mere seconds.
- The atoms that Mothra was vaporized into then "fuse" with Godzilla, allowing him to transform into the apex of Godzilla and Mothra's symbiosis; Thermonuclear Godzilla. Thermonuclear Godzilla (or more simply referred to as Burning Godzilla and what I will continue to call this form from here on because its easier to type) is what happens when Godzilla, Mothra's essence, and a absolutely massive amount of radioactive power all fuse into one, and it is a rather powerful and exponential form the Monsterverse Godzilla can take.
This is all we know about their symbiosis, and due to the way they act towards each other and the information provided, we can safely assume that this is a mutualistic relationship. However, we must ask what exactly does Mothra get out of Burning Godzilla in particular? Sure, Mothra's intended goal is to protect the planet from devastation and she can simply rebirth herself after her demise, but the creation of Burning Godzilla really does rely on Mothra ending her own life in order for it to happen. I know this is a fantastical series, and the kaiju often level on more human-like intelligence and emotions, but I have a hard time believing that Mothra's species actively evolved with with trait if it didn't mean something more than just a temporary powerup for Godzilla. In the words of Madison Russel, there has to be more that we're not seeing here... And I believe I have an idea.
When Burning Godzilla is formed, and even after this form's time is out, there's an odd implication in the air that Mothra still exists within Godzilla somehow. When Burning Godzilla utilizes his nuclear pulse ability, we can hear Mothra's faint cries in the explosion as well as see the unmistakable pattern of her wings in the pulse's energy (it is much easier to see in motion, refer back to the video of Burning Godzilla I linked if need be), implying that in some sense she is still alive and perhaps this nuclear pulse is her. We already established she was atomized so whose to say, with this evidence in mind, that the atoms Godzilla is pulsing out are made of her. There's also an implication that this symbiosis has a permanent affect on Godzilla in Godzilla Dominion, where he now has "the moth's gift" that allows him to to sense the planet's very being and all the creatures that inhabit it, which is an important detail for later.
In GxK, when Mothra is rebirthed, a very interesting visual is shown to us as she is born. Her body rematerializes (MAJOR SPOILERS ON THIS LINK BE WARNED), much in the same way it was atomized as she died in KOTM. In fact, the atoms that build up her body as she forms are suspiciously the same color, or at least a very similar color, to the atoms that Burning Godzilla was producing in his nuclear pulses. She is being reformed in a fiery blaze of light, much the same way she became Burning Godzilla's flaming nuclear pulses!
So here's the theory, I believe that Mothra's rebirth in GxK is meant to tie in with her death on KOTM. When Burning Godzilla was formed, it released what was left of Mothra via each nuclear pulse, which is verifiable because we can actively hear and see that Mothra is a part of those nuclear pulses. Since matter continues to exist and never ceases to be, those atoms that once made up Mothra continued to exist in the ether, potentially even sentient enough to understand she needed to return to the Hollow Earth and station what was left of her in the Iwi city to await the prophecy. Jia would then arrive there nearly a decade later, when she could then activate Mothra's rebirth, where the fiery atoms that emitted from Burning Godzilla now fuse back into Mothra in this gorgeous blazing light! And remember how Godzilla was permanently affected by Mothra fusing with him, how part of her powers stayed behind within him? I believe Godzilla bestowed a gift onto this Mothra form too, as its very clear that she has a new fiery orange and white color scheme which synchronizes really well with Burning Godzilla's fiery appearance, perhaps having been fused with that form of Godzilla she too has entered a new fiery form of her own, and this is her ultimate form caused by their symbiosis, this is what she ultimately gets out of fusing with Godzilla! A new more powerful form!! This would also make this Mothra not only the same Mothra from KOTM, but also technically the same body! Meaning that Mothra truly is back after her demise in KOTM!!
Now I'm sure there are many... MANY holes in this theory, things like "How did Mothra's atoms arrive in the Hollow Earth?" or "Why did Jia need to activate Mothra's rebirth if it was part of Godzilla and Mothra's symbiosis all along?" and really I don't have any good answers for those, and I'm also sure the novelization probably has something in it that contradicts my whole theory... But I will at least give my answer for what's up with Mothra's egg. I think there are a few different ways to interpret the egg now, the first answer is that the egg was laid way in advance for Mothra's demise. I mean, the egg in KOTM according to Dougherty was waiting to hatch for nearly 10,000 years, so perhaps the egg currently in Monarch's possession isn't due for a long long time. Another answer is that maybe its setting up for a second Mothra, maybe a Monsterverse equivalent of Mothra Leo! My final idea is that maybe it isn't a Mothra egg at all, KOTM's credits do question if it actually is a Mothra egg or if it belongs to something else. This one could potentially setup for Battra or some sort of Monsterverse equivalent to spawn from the egg, which could actually result in an interesting plot!
Keep in mind this is all just a theory, and I am very willing to make a discussion out of this! This was an aspect of the film that really bothered me on first viewing so I tried to find a way it could work without ruining pre-established lore, and I hope that this idea helps make it more digestible for others who had issues with Mothra's rebirth! Thank you for taking the time to read and do let me know what you think! :D
2024.04.06 08:59 jayaramjay I have not heard of any of these words in NCERT yet they come in AIATS🤡
 | wtf is a plover bird? wtf is a protocooperation? apparently (4) is the correct answer? submitted by jayaramjay to MEDICOreTARDS [link] [comments] |
2024.03.31 08:51 IntelligentIce43 Here's what I have learnt so far
1.1 Fungal physiology: Candida is an opportunistic pathogen. It resides as a commensal in the host oral cavity, gastrointestinal (GI) tract, skin, and/or vagina. Immunocompromised health conditions, prolonged usage of antibiotics, dysbiosis of the microbiota, and/or environmental changes can lead to C. albicans overgrowth. Many fungal species possess the ability to change their physical shape. Fungi can undergo three types of morphological changes:
· round, budding yeast-form cells
· oval pseudohyphal cells
· elongated, cylindrical hyphal cells
In C. albicans the hyphal form is the virulent form because the hyphae can penetrate host tissues by damaging epithelial cells. Among Candida spp., only three species can form hyphae*: C. tropicalis, C. dubliniensis*, and C. albicans. [1] Cell-to-cell signalling or communication is done by Quorum Sensing (QS). C. albicans releases two quorum sensing molecules, farnesol and tyrosol. [2] Biofilm formation is divided into three stages: adhesion (to a living or non-living surface), cell proliferation and maturation.[3] The pathogenic strains are Candida albicans, Candida glabrata, Candida tropicalis, Candida parapsilosis, and Candida krusei. About 90% of infections are caused by these five species.[4] Among these, C. albicans produces the most robust biofilms. What are Candida biofilms made of? C. albicans biofilms contain yeast, hyphae, and a complex extracellular matrix (ECM).[5] Candida biofilm matrix (a.k.a ECM) is composed of 25 % carbohydrate, 55 % protein, 15 % lipid, and 5 % nucleic acid. The carbohydrate component consists of two major polysaccharides: mannans and β-glucan. [6] Biofilms provide physical protection from antifungal drugs (e.g. via the production of the extracellular matrix). [7]
1.2 Testing for Invasive Candidiasis: D-arabinitol, a sugar alcohol, is produced by C. albicans, C. parapsilosis, and C. tropicalis but not by C. glabrata and C. krusei. D- and l-arabinitol are present in normal human urine and serum, but if DA/LA ratio in urine is elevated then it is a sign of invasive candidiasis. [8][9]. Most Organic Acid Tests (OATs) have a d-arabinitol component. This test requires a urine sample. Comprehensive Stool Testing/Gut Microbiome Test can also be done to detect Candida in GI tract. An antibody test (IgG) test can be used to detect past or ongoing infections. [10]
1.3 Symptoms: Oral thrush, tinnitus, insomnia, halitosis, joint pain, sinusitis, headache, indigestion, constipation, skin rash, toenail fungus, vaginal discharge, brain fog, fatigue.
1.4 Treatment: To treat Candidiasis, one must take both Biofilm Busters AND Antifungals.
1.4.1 Biofilm Busters**:** Enzymatic Breakdown Complex (Hemicellulase & Cellullase break down beta glucans in biofilms, Proteases break down proteins), N-acetyl Cysteine (NAC), Lactoferrin.
1.4.2 Herbal Antifungals: Oregano Oil, Garlic (Allicin), Ginger, Olive Leaf Extract (OLE), Caprylic Acid, Neem Leef Extract, Pau d’Arco, Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV), Black seed oil, Grapeseed Extract (GSE), Turmeric (Curcumin), Cinnamon, Green tea, Pomegranate (bark and peel extracts), Basil, Coriander, HorseTail, Echinacea. [16]
1.4.3 Prescription Antifungals: Triazoles (Itraconazole, Fluconazole, Isavuconazole, Voriconazole and Posaconazole), Polyenes (Amphotericin B, Natamycin, and Nystatin), Echinocandins (Caspofungin, Micafungin, and Anidulafungin) and Pyrimidine analogues (5-Fluorocytosine and 5-Fluorouracil). [17]
1.4.3.1 Side Effects of Prescription Antifungals: The use of prescription antifungals is not recommended because of two reasons.
· Toxicity: AmpB is toxic to fungal cells because of its affinity to bind with ergosterol present in fungal cell membranes. AmpB is toxic to human cells because of its ability to bind loosely with cholesterol (the human counterpart of ergosterol) present in cells. Renal toxicity in the case of Amphotericin B is dose- dependent and cumulative. It is more likely when cumulative doses equal to or more than 6 mg/kg. [11]
· Antifungal resistance: Resistance can be intrinsic or acquired. Some species have intrinsic resistance to certain antifungals. For example, all Aspergillus spp., Candida krusei and most Candida auris isolates are intrinsically resistant to fluconazole, and many environmental moulds (for example, Mucoromycota, Lomentospora spp. and Fusarium spp.) are resistant to azoles. [23]
· Fungal Dysbiosis: Studies done in mice showed that a 3-week Fluconazole treatment decreased the population of some pathogenic fungi such as Penicillium brevicompactum and Candida tropicalis, but increased the population of other pathogenic fungi such as Aspergillus amstelodami, Epicoccum nigrum, and Wallemia sebi. Furthermore, fungal dybiosis caused increased inflammation in colitis-induced mice. [18]
1.4.4 Probiotics: Probiotic yeasts secrete certain metabolites which inhibit the adhesion and morphological transition of Candida species. S. bourlardii, for instance, secretes caproic acid, caprylic acid and capric acid. Out of these, capric acid is most toxic to C. albicans. It causes the cytoplasm of C. albicans to shrink and reduces its virulence. [13] Certain Bifidobacterium species, particularly B. adolescentis, inhibited C. albicans in vitro. [14] Four species of probiotics (Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus reuteri, Lactobacillus casei GG, and Bifidobacterium animalis) reduced the severity of (but did not eradicate) systemic candidiasis in mice. [15]
1.5 Herx Reaction: Jarisch Herxheimer Reaction (JHR) is a transient clinical phenomenon that occurs when large amounts of pathogenic cells die releasing endotoxins. This flood of endotoxins can cause the kidneys and the liver to work overtime to remove them. It may lead to worsening of symptoms. [12] Inorganic toxin binders such as clays (Bentonite) and activated carbon/charcoal can be used to alleviate symptoms. Healing intestinal permeability (leaky gut) can prevent fungal metabolites from entering the bloodstream. Adding anti-inflammatory compounds such as turmeric (with black pepper) & Omega-3 to the diet can reduce the inflammation that is caused when the fungal metabolites enter the bloodstream.
1.6 Fungal Infection and Autoimmune Diseases
The first step in fungal pathogenesis is the adhesion of fungus. C. albicans Hyphal Wall Protein 1 (Hwp1p) is a key protein (adhesin) that facilitates the attachment of C. albicans to epithelial cells. The next step is invasion of host cells. Invasion can occur through two mechanisms: induced endocytosis and active penetration. Endocytosis is process by which a cell internalizes extracellular substances or materials on the cell membrane by engulfing them. For instance, C. parapsilosis induces endocytosis in host endothelial cells. Once it has been endocytosed, patrolling neutrophils can no longer detect them. The active penetration mechanism does not rely on the host's cellular machinery, but possibly on physical pressure applied by the advancing hyphal tip and the secretion of extracellular hydrolases. [19][20] I think that host cell penetration caused by hyphal tip expansion causes intestinal permeability. As pathogenic fungal and/or bacterial metabolites (especially those that mimic human proteins, a.k.a. molecular mimicry) enter bloodstream through these leaks, the immune system gets triggered, which may lead to autoimmune diseases.
Rheumatoid arthritis: Autoimmune diseases can be triggered by the molecular mimicry of bacterial and viral antigens. However, not much is known about fungal molecular mimicry. One study found that the molecular mimicry of human peptides by fungal pathogen peptides can lead to Rheumatoid Arthritis. [21]
Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD): IBD comprises Crohn’s and Ulcerative Colitis. A study, comparing faecal microbiota of IBD patients with that of healthy volunteers, showed that fungal microbiota is skewed in IBD, with an increased Basidiomycota/Ascomycota ratio, a decreased proportion of Saccharomyces cerevisiae and an increased proportion of Candida albicans compared with healthy individuals.[22]
References:
[1] Thompson, D. S., Carlisle, P. L., & Kadosh, D. (2011). Coevolution of morphology and virulence in Candida species. Eukaryotic cell, 10(9), 1173–1182. https://doi.org/10.1128/EC.05085-11
[2] Rodrigues, C. F., & Černáková, L. (2020). Farnesol and Tyrosol: Secondary Metabolites with a Crucial quorum-sensing Role in Candida Biofilm Development. Genes, 11(4), 444. https://doi.org/10.3390/genes11040444
[3] Malinovská, Z., Čonková, E., & Váczi, P. (2023). Biofilm Formation in Medically Important Candida Species. Journal of fungi (Basel, Switzerland), 9(10), 955. https://doi.org/10.3390/jof9100955
[4]Turner, S. A., & Butler, G. (2014). The Candida pathogenic species complex. Cold Spring Harbor perspectives in medicine, 4(9), a019778. https://doi.org/10.1101/cshperspect.a019778
[5] Sumita Roy, Neil A.R. Gow,The role of the Candida biofilm matrix in drug and immune protection,The Cell Surface,Volume 10,2023,100111,ISSN 2468-2330,https://doi.org/10.1016/j.tcsw.2023.100111.(https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S246823302300018X)
[6]Roy, S., & Gow, N. A. R. (2023). The role of the Candida biofilm matrix in drug and immune protection. Cell surface (Amsterdam, Netherlands), 10, 100111. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.tcsw.2023.100111
[7] Jaspreet Kaur, Clarissa J Nobile, Antifungal drug-resistance mechanisms in Candida biofilms, Current Opinion in Microbiology, Volume 71,2023,102237,ISSN 1369-5274, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.mib.2022.102237.(https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1369527422001217)
[8] P. Brian Smith, William J. Steinbach, in Principles and Practice of Pediatric Infectious Disease (Third Edition), 2008
[9] María Mercedes Panizo, Xiomara Moreno, in Encyclopedia of Infection and Immunity, 2022
[10] Li, F. Q., Ma, C. F., Shi, L. N., Lu, J. F., Wang, Y., Huang, M., & Kong, Q. Q. (2013). Diagnostic value of immunoglobulin G antibodies against Candida enolase and fructose-bisphosphate aldolase for candidemia. BMC infectious diseases, 13, 253. https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-2334-13-253
[11] Mark G. Papich DVM, MS, DACVCP, in Saunders Handbook of Veterinary Drugs (Fourth Edition), 2016
[12] Neha Jaiswal, Awanish Kumar,Candida die-off: Adverse effect and neutralization with phytotherapy approaches,Toxicon,Volume 237,2024,107555,ISSN 0041-0101,https://doi.org/10.1016/j.toxicon.2023.107555.(https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0041010123003665)
[13 ]Suchodolski, J., Derkacz, D., Bernat, P., & Krasowska, A. (2021). Capric acid secreted by Saccharomyces boulardii influences the susceptibility of Candida albicans to fluconazole and amphotericin B. Scientific reports, 11(1), 6519. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-021-86012-9
[14] Ricci, L., Mackie, J., Donachie, G. E., Chapuis, A., Mezerová, K., Lenardon, M. D., Brown, A. J. P., Duncan, S. H., & Walker, A. W. (2022). Human gut bifidobacteria inhibit the growth of the opportunistic fungal pathogen Candida albicans. FEMS microbiology ecology, 98(10), fiac095. https://doi.org/10.1093/femsec/fiac095
[15] Wagner, R. D., Pierson, C., Warner, T., Dohnalek, M., Farmer, J., Roberts, L., Hilty, M., & Balish, E. (1997). Biotherapeutic effects of probiotic bacteria on candidiasis in immunodeficient mice. Infection and immunity, 65(10), 4165–4172. https://doi.org/10.1128/iai.65.10.4165-4172.1997
[16] Niculescu, A. G., & Grumezescu, A. M. (2021). Natural Compounds for Preventing Ear, Nose, and Throat-Related Oral Infections. Plants (Basel, Switzerland), 10(9), 1847. https://doi.org/10.3390/plants10091847
[17] Houšť, J., Spížek, J., & Havlíček, V. (2020). Antifungal Drugs. Metabolites, 10(3), 106. https://doi.org/10.3390/metabo10030106
[18] Wheeler, M. L., Limon, J. J., Bar, A. S., Leal, C. A., Gargus, M., Tang, J., Brown, J., Funari, V. A., Wang, H. L., Crother, T. R., Arditi, M., Underhill, D. M., & Iliev, I. D. (2016). Immunological Consequences of Intestinal Fungal Dysbiosis. Cell host & microbe, 19(6), 865–873. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.chom.2016.05.003
[19] Maza, P. K., Bonfim-Melo, A., Padovan, A. C. B., Mortara, R. A., Orikaza, C. M., Ramos, L. M. D., Moura, T. R., Soriani, F. M., Almeida, R. S., Suzuki, E., & Bahia, D. (2017). Candida albicans: The Ability to Invade Epithelial Cells and Survive under Oxidative Stress Is Unlinked to Hyphal Length. Frontiers in microbiology, 8, 1235. https://doi.org/10.3389/fmicb.2017.01235
[20] Wilson, D., Thewes, S., Zakikhany, K., Fradin, C., Albrecht, A., Almeida, R., Brunke, S., Grosse, K., Martin, R., Mayer, F., Leonhardt, I., Schild, L., Seider, K., Skibbe, M., Slesiona, S., Waechtler, B., Jacobsen, I., & Hube, B. (2009). Identifying infection-associated genes of Candida albicans in the postgenomic era. FEMS yeast research, 9(5), 688–700. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1567-1364.2009.00524.x
[21] Kevin Roe,How major fungal infections can initiate severe autoimmune diseases,Microbial Pathogenesis,Volume 161, Part A,2021,105200,ISSN 0882-4010,https://doi.org/10.1016/j.micpath.2021.105200.
[22] Sokol, H., Leducq, V., Aschard, H., Pham, H. P., Jegou, S., Landman, C., Cohen, D., Liguori, G., Bourrier, A., Nion-Larmurier, I., Cosnes, J., Seksik, P., Langella, P., Skurnik, D., Richard, M. L., & Beaugerie, L. (2017). Fungal microbiota dysbiosis in IBD. Gut, 66(6), 1039–1048. https://doi.org/10.1136/gutjnl-2015-310746
[23] Fisher, M. C., Alastruey-Izquierdo, A., Berman, J., Bicanic, T., Bignell, E. M., Bowyer, P., Bromley, M., Brüggemann, R., Garber, G., Cornely, O. A., Gurr, S. J., Harrison, T. S., Kuijper, E., Rhodes, J., Sheppard, D. C., Warris, A., White, P. L., Xu, J., Zwaan, B., & Verweij, P. E. (2022). Tackling the emerging threat of antifungal resistance to human health. Nature reviews. Microbiology, 20(9), 557–571. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41579-022-00720-1
submitted by IntelligentIce43 to Candida [link] [comments]
· round, budding yeast-form cells
· oval pseudohyphal cells
· elongated, cylindrical hyphal cells
In C. albicans the hyphal form is the virulent form because the hyphae can penetrate host tissues by damaging epithelial cells. Among Candida spp., only three species can form hyphae*: C. tropicalis, C. dubliniensis*, and C. albicans. [1] Cell-to-cell signalling or communication is done by Quorum Sensing (QS). C. albicans releases two quorum sensing molecules, farnesol and tyrosol. [2] Biofilm formation is divided into three stages: adhesion (to a living or non-living surface), cell proliferation and maturation.[3] The pathogenic strains are Candida albicans, Candida glabrata, Candida tropicalis, Candida parapsilosis, and Candida krusei. About 90% of infections are caused by these five species.[4] Among these, C. albicans produces the most robust biofilms. What are Candida biofilms made of? C. albicans biofilms contain yeast, hyphae, and a complex extracellular matrix (ECM).[5] Candida biofilm matrix (a.k.a ECM) is composed of 25 % carbohydrate, 55 % protein, 15 % lipid, and 5 % nucleic acid. The carbohydrate component consists of two major polysaccharides: mannans and β-glucan. [6] Biofilms provide physical protection from antifungal drugs (e.g. via the production of the extracellular matrix). [7]
1.2 Testing for Invasive Candidiasis: D-arabinitol, a sugar alcohol, is produced by C. albicans, C. parapsilosis, and C. tropicalis but not by C. glabrata and C. krusei. D- and l-arabinitol are present in normal human urine and serum, but if DA/LA ratio in urine is elevated then it is a sign of invasive candidiasis. [8][9]. Most Organic Acid Tests (OATs) have a d-arabinitol component. This test requires a urine sample. Comprehensive Stool Testing/Gut Microbiome Test can also be done to detect Candida in GI tract. An antibody test (IgG) test can be used to detect past or ongoing infections. [10]
1.3 Symptoms: Oral thrush, tinnitus, insomnia, halitosis, joint pain, sinusitis, headache, indigestion, constipation, skin rash, toenail fungus, vaginal discharge, brain fog, fatigue.
1.4 Treatment: To treat Candidiasis, one must take both Biofilm Busters AND Antifungals.
1.4.1 Biofilm Busters**:** Enzymatic Breakdown Complex (Hemicellulase & Cellullase break down beta glucans in biofilms, Proteases break down proteins), N-acetyl Cysteine (NAC), Lactoferrin.
1.4.2 Herbal Antifungals: Oregano Oil, Garlic (Allicin), Ginger, Olive Leaf Extract (OLE), Caprylic Acid, Neem Leef Extract, Pau d’Arco, Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV), Black seed oil, Grapeseed Extract (GSE), Turmeric (Curcumin), Cinnamon, Green tea, Pomegranate (bark and peel extracts), Basil, Coriander, HorseTail, Echinacea. [16]
1.4.3 Prescription Antifungals: Triazoles (Itraconazole, Fluconazole, Isavuconazole, Voriconazole and Posaconazole), Polyenes (Amphotericin B, Natamycin, and Nystatin), Echinocandins (Caspofungin, Micafungin, and Anidulafungin) and Pyrimidine analogues (5-Fluorocytosine and 5-Fluorouracil). [17]
1.4.3.1 Side Effects of Prescription Antifungals: The use of prescription antifungals is not recommended because of two reasons.
· Toxicity: AmpB is toxic to fungal cells because of its affinity to bind with ergosterol present in fungal cell membranes. AmpB is toxic to human cells because of its ability to bind loosely with cholesterol (the human counterpart of ergosterol) present in cells. Renal toxicity in the case of Amphotericin B is dose- dependent and cumulative. It is more likely when cumulative doses equal to or more than 6 mg/kg. [11]
· Antifungal resistance: Resistance can be intrinsic or acquired. Some species have intrinsic resistance to certain antifungals. For example, all Aspergillus spp., Candida krusei and most Candida auris isolates are intrinsically resistant to fluconazole, and many environmental moulds (for example, Mucoromycota, Lomentospora spp. and Fusarium spp.) are resistant to azoles. [23]
· Fungal Dysbiosis: Studies done in mice showed that a 3-week Fluconazole treatment decreased the population of some pathogenic fungi such as Penicillium brevicompactum and Candida tropicalis, but increased the population of other pathogenic fungi such as Aspergillus amstelodami, Epicoccum nigrum, and Wallemia sebi. Furthermore, fungal dybiosis caused increased inflammation in colitis-induced mice. [18]
1.4.4 Probiotics: Probiotic yeasts secrete certain metabolites which inhibit the adhesion and morphological transition of Candida species. S. bourlardii, for instance, secretes caproic acid, caprylic acid and capric acid. Out of these, capric acid is most toxic to C. albicans. It causes the cytoplasm of C. albicans to shrink and reduces its virulence. [13] Certain Bifidobacterium species, particularly B. adolescentis, inhibited C. albicans in vitro. [14] Four species of probiotics (Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus reuteri, Lactobacillus casei GG, and Bifidobacterium animalis) reduced the severity of (but did not eradicate) systemic candidiasis in mice. [15]
1.5 Herx Reaction: Jarisch Herxheimer Reaction (JHR) is a transient clinical phenomenon that occurs when large amounts of pathogenic cells die releasing endotoxins. This flood of endotoxins can cause the kidneys and the liver to work overtime to remove them. It may lead to worsening of symptoms. [12] Inorganic toxin binders such as clays (Bentonite) and activated carbon/charcoal can be used to alleviate symptoms. Healing intestinal permeability (leaky gut) can prevent fungal metabolites from entering the bloodstream. Adding anti-inflammatory compounds such as turmeric (with black pepper) & Omega-3 to the diet can reduce the inflammation that is caused when the fungal metabolites enter the bloodstream.
1.6 Fungal Infection and Autoimmune Diseases
The first step in fungal pathogenesis is the adhesion of fungus. C. albicans Hyphal Wall Protein 1 (Hwp1p) is a key protein (adhesin) that facilitates the attachment of C. albicans to epithelial cells. The next step is invasion of host cells. Invasion can occur through two mechanisms: induced endocytosis and active penetration. Endocytosis is process by which a cell internalizes extracellular substances or materials on the cell membrane by engulfing them. For instance, C. parapsilosis induces endocytosis in host endothelial cells. Once it has been endocytosed, patrolling neutrophils can no longer detect them. The active penetration mechanism does not rely on the host's cellular machinery, but possibly on physical pressure applied by the advancing hyphal tip and the secretion of extracellular hydrolases. [19][20] I think that host cell penetration caused by hyphal tip expansion causes intestinal permeability. As pathogenic fungal and/or bacterial metabolites (especially those that mimic human proteins, a.k.a. molecular mimicry) enter bloodstream through these leaks, the immune system gets triggered, which may lead to autoimmune diseases.
Rheumatoid arthritis: Autoimmune diseases can be triggered by the molecular mimicry of bacterial and viral antigens. However, not much is known about fungal molecular mimicry. One study found that the molecular mimicry of human peptides by fungal pathogen peptides can lead to Rheumatoid Arthritis. [21]
Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD): IBD comprises Crohn’s and Ulcerative Colitis. A study, comparing faecal microbiota of IBD patients with that of healthy volunteers, showed that fungal microbiota is skewed in IBD, with an increased Basidiomycota/Ascomycota ratio, a decreased proportion of Saccharomyces cerevisiae and an increased proportion of Candida albicans compared with healthy individuals.[22]
References:
[1] Thompson, D. S., Carlisle, P. L., & Kadosh, D. (2011). Coevolution of morphology and virulence in Candida species. Eukaryotic cell, 10(9), 1173–1182. https://doi.org/10.1128/EC.05085-11
[2] Rodrigues, C. F., & Černáková, L. (2020). Farnesol and Tyrosol: Secondary Metabolites with a Crucial quorum-sensing Role in Candida Biofilm Development. Genes, 11(4), 444. https://doi.org/10.3390/genes11040444
[3] Malinovská, Z., Čonková, E., & Váczi, P. (2023). Biofilm Formation in Medically Important Candida Species. Journal of fungi (Basel, Switzerland), 9(10), 955. https://doi.org/10.3390/jof9100955
[4]Turner, S. A., & Butler, G. (2014). The Candida pathogenic species complex. Cold Spring Harbor perspectives in medicine, 4(9), a019778. https://doi.org/10.1101/cshperspect.a019778
[5] Sumita Roy, Neil A.R. Gow,The role of the Candida biofilm matrix in drug and immune protection,The Cell Surface,Volume 10,2023,100111,ISSN 2468-2330,https://doi.org/10.1016/j.tcsw.2023.100111.(https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S246823302300018X)
[6]Roy, S., & Gow, N. A. R. (2023). The role of the Candida biofilm matrix in drug and immune protection. Cell surface (Amsterdam, Netherlands), 10, 100111. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.tcsw.2023.100111
[7] Jaspreet Kaur, Clarissa J Nobile, Antifungal drug-resistance mechanisms in Candida biofilms, Current Opinion in Microbiology, Volume 71,2023,102237,ISSN 1369-5274, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.mib.2022.102237.(https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1369527422001217)
[8] P. Brian Smith, William J. Steinbach, in Principles and Practice of Pediatric Infectious Disease (Third Edition), 2008
[9] María Mercedes Panizo, Xiomara Moreno, in Encyclopedia of Infection and Immunity, 2022
[10] Li, F. Q., Ma, C. F., Shi, L. N., Lu, J. F., Wang, Y., Huang, M., & Kong, Q. Q. (2013). Diagnostic value of immunoglobulin G antibodies against Candida enolase and fructose-bisphosphate aldolase for candidemia. BMC infectious diseases, 13, 253. https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-2334-13-253
[11] Mark G. Papich DVM, MS, DACVCP, in Saunders Handbook of Veterinary Drugs (Fourth Edition), 2016
[12] Neha Jaiswal, Awanish Kumar,Candida die-off: Adverse effect and neutralization with phytotherapy approaches,Toxicon,Volume 237,2024,107555,ISSN 0041-0101,https://doi.org/10.1016/j.toxicon.2023.107555.(https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0041010123003665)
[13 ]Suchodolski, J., Derkacz, D., Bernat, P., & Krasowska, A. (2021). Capric acid secreted by Saccharomyces boulardii influences the susceptibility of Candida albicans to fluconazole and amphotericin B. Scientific reports, 11(1), 6519. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-021-86012-9
[14] Ricci, L., Mackie, J., Donachie, G. E., Chapuis, A., Mezerová, K., Lenardon, M. D., Brown, A. J. P., Duncan, S. H., & Walker, A. W. (2022). Human gut bifidobacteria inhibit the growth of the opportunistic fungal pathogen Candida albicans. FEMS microbiology ecology, 98(10), fiac095. https://doi.org/10.1093/femsec/fiac095
[15] Wagner, R. D., Pierson, C., Warner, T., Dohnalek, M., Farmer, J., Roberts, L., Hilty, M., & Balish, E. (1997). Biotherapeutic effects of probiotic bacteria on candidiasis in immunodeficient mice. Infection and immunity, 65(10), 4165–4172. https://doi.org/10.1128/iai.65.10.4165-4172.1997
[16] Niculescu, A. G., & Grumezescu, A. M. (2021). Natural Compounds for Preventing Ear, Nose, and Throat-Related Oral Infections. Plants (Basel, Switzerland), 10(9), 1847. https://doi.org/10.3390/plants10091847
[17] Houšť, J., Spížek, J., & Havlíček, V. (2020). Antifungal Drugs. Metabolites, 10(3), 106. https://doi.org/10.3390/metabo10030106
[18] Wheeler, M. L., Limon, J. J., Bar, A. S., Leal, C. A., Gargus, M., Tang, J., Brown, J., Funari, V. A., Wang, H. L., Crother, T. R., Arditi, M., Underhill, D. M., & Iliev, I. D. (2016). Immunological Consequences of Intestinal Fungal Dysbiosis. Cell host & microbe, 19(6), 865–873. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.chom.2016.05.003
[19] Maza, P. K., Bonfim-Melo, A., Padovan, A. C. B., Mortara, R. A., Orikaza, C. M., Ramos, L. M. D., Moura, T. R., Soriani, F. M., Almeida, R. S., Suzuki, E., & Bahia, D. (2017). Candida albicans: The Ability to Invade Epithelial Cells and Survive under Oxidative Stress Is Unlinked to Hyphal Length. Frontiers in microbiology, 8, 1235. https://doi.org/10.3389/fmicb.2017.01235
[20] Wilson, D., Thewes, S., Zakikhany, K., Fradin, C., Albrecht, A., Almeida, R., Brunke, S., Grosse, K., Martin, R., Mayer, F., Leonhardt, I., Schild, L., Seider, K., Skibbe, M., Slesiona, S., Waechtler, B., Jacobsen, I., & Hube, B. (2009). Identifying infection-associated genes of Candida albicans in the postgenomic era. FEMS yeast research, 9(5), 688–700. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1567-1364.2009.00524.x
[21] Kevin Roe,How major fungal infections can initiate severe autoimmune diseases,Microbial Pathogenesis,Volume 161, Part A,2021,105200,ISSN 0882-4010,https://doi.org/10.1016/j.micpath.2021.105200.
[22] Sokol, H., Leducq, V., Aschard, H., Pham, H. P., Jegou, S., Landman, C., Cohen, D., Liguori, G., Bourrier, A., Nion-Larmurier, I., Cosnes, J., Seksik, P., Langella, P., Skurnik, D., Richard, M. L., & Beaugerie, L. (2017). Fungal microbiota dysbiosis in IBD. Gut, 66(6), 1039–1048. https://doi.org/10.1136/gutjnl-2015-310746
[23] Fisher, M. C., Alastruey-Izquierdo, A., Berman, J., Bicanic, T., Bignell, E. M., Bowyer, P., Bromley, M., Brüggemann, R., Garber, G., Cornely, O. A., Gurr, S. J., Harrison, T. S., Kuijper, E., Rhodes, J., Sheppard, D. C., Warris, A., White, P. L., Xu, J., Zwaan, B., & Verweij, P. E. (2022). Tackling the emerging threat of antifungal resistance to human health. Nature reviews. Microbiology, 20(9), 557–571. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41579-022-00720-1
2024.03.24 20:30 Reggash Black thorn, Rusty hair, Amoeba, Grabber - description of cut vegetation anomalies
 | . submitted by Reggash to stalker [link] [comments] There aren't many examples of mutated vegetation in the series, and the only dangerous anomaly that appears to be of plant origin is the Burnt fuzz. During the development of the original game, the devs had ideas for other anomalies of a similar type, which ultimately weren't realized or were cut before the release - this post will provide insight into them.
Black thornThere are also descriptions of some scenario ideas involving the Black thorn. Early on, there was an idea for the player to have a partner who, before the events of the game, met his fate at the Garbage, while trying to obtain an artifact known as "Toad's eye". The player, after obtaining better equipment, would return there to bury his partner and get the artifact, and he would encounter the mutated plant: Level 2 (Garbage):The document also mentions that in addition to the Garbage, black thorns would be present at the Silent hills (an early concept of the Army Warehouses location), the Unknown city (also known as the Infected city; an early concept of the cut Dead City location), and the Red Forest - the player would have to clear each of these places from the thorns, although there are no details on how this would be done. There is a sketch created by Viktor Marchevsky in 2002 that appears to be based on the description of the scene with the dead partner: https://preview.redd.it/izn2xl83aaqc1.jpg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6cf08ba5a547433080ec58db19ecdb1e4c9618b3 The Black thorn is mentioned in several other documents from that year, but all descriptions are the same as the previous ones. The idea never made it past the stage of a concept and it was quickly abandoned. It's worth noting that the concept itself could have been taken from a certain fan-written story - in 2002, GSC held the first writing competition dedicated to S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (the game itself was originally supposed to be released in 2003), and ideas from some of the submitted stories served as inspiration for the devs during the development of the game - a good example is the legendary Black Stalker, about whom I made a separate post. In one of the submitted stories that was written by Yaroslav Singaevsky, titled "Choosing yourself", the black thorn is mentioned; here's an excerpt: It wasn’t far from the gate of the base, about three hundred meters, but we had to stop halfway. I came across a "black thorn" bush - in a lowland, it settled on the side of the road, and scattered its roots with tentacles across it. So long and thin. Near one, a dead rat lied, already covered in thorns. These roots reacted to the movement and grabbed tightly. The nasty spores of the "black thorn" killed at once, germinating in a living body.It's also possible that this concept first appeared on some forum, because the first document that I linked in which the Black thorn is described contains various fan ideas that the devs noted, and which often came from various forums. In any case, a similar anomaly was also being considered to appear in the cancelled S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 from 2011 - such descriptions can be found in its design documents: Thorn
https://preview.redd.it/xvxtxdb8iaqc1.png?width=484&format=png&auto=webp&s=9086ac36403decc66b5c2f34545e8e9df251b3c5 Brief description can also be found in design documents from 2002: Rusty hair:This was just an early idea of sorts, but contrary to the previously described Black thorn, work on introducing Rusty hair into the game actually took place - mentions of it appeared in the config files of the game starting with pre-release build 1511 from 2003, and in build 1865 from 2004 the anomaly can be seen in the game itself. One specimen can be found in one of the houses in the Cordon, where its two states of activity can be observed: https://preview.redd.it/yot7w0diiaqc1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=4c314271e040e56018e1fbda0bd8904cd29cee1c https://preview.redd.it/vcflgw8piaqc1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=006c74315257ccbd721d19fd188aecd6d5a431d1 The idea was for it to generate spores that would hurt the player upon contact - unfortunately, the anomaly itself doesn't do much other than change its state in the build. Moreover, build 1865 is the only pre-release build where it can be seen; however, the model, texture and config files can be found even in the final version of the game. From the config file we can learn that it was supposed to deal shock damage, akin to the Electro anomaly (perhaps it was just a placeholder, though). https://preview.redd.it/azx9y9pkjaqc1.png?width=488&format=png&auto=webp&s=1e088739efb9c6f893050d17dc3b8442f80253bf More information about it can be found in descriptions created for the PDA encyclopedia that can be seen in 2004/2005 builds: Rusty hairIt's worth noting two things about the artifacts that were supposed to be generated by Rusty hair - in the final version of the game, it's said that they are created by the Burnt fuzz anomaly; this change appeared quite late - up until build 2571 from 2006, their descriptions mentioned that they are in fact created by Rusty hair. The mention of them becoming 'needle-mines' refers to the cut artifact activation mechanic (which is still present in multiplayer mode, however, these three artifacts cannot be used). As in the case of some mutants that I previously described, such as the bloodsucker, Rusty hair received a 'scientific' description that can be found not only in builds, but also in the files of the final version of the game; here is its translation: Rusty hairThere are also some gameplay-related characteristics described: - The sound and visual detector doesn't respond to the anomalyThis elaborate description was planned to appear in the PDA encyclopedia and can also be found in one document. Mentions of Rusty hair can also be found in technical documents from 2004, which contain a list of locations where a given type of anomaly could be found - in the case of Rusty hair, it was supposed to be practically the entire Zone. Some interesting uses of Rusty hair are also described in one of the technical documents from 2003 - the anomaly could be used during artifact transmutation (which was an unrealized mechanic that was considered early in the development) in order to create a unique artifact known as "Washcloth", that could be used offensively. Moreover, it was also considered that the player will be able to create unique weapons using some artifacts and anomalies, including Rusty hair: Shaggy knife (knife + rusty hair)As can be seen, the devs had quite interesting ideas at an early stage of the game's development. Anyway, the concept of Rusty hair was abandoned sometime in 2005, but as I have already mentioned, traces of the anomaly can still be found in the files of the final game.
The nature of this jellyfish-like abomination has not been studied. On contact it causes damage similar to that of a strong acid. Generates artifacts: "Slime", "Slug", "Mica".The issue is that while its technical name is 'ameba', its in-game name was said to be 'Fruit punch' - which is the chemical anomaly known from the final version of the game. In later builds from 2005, the description was slightly expanded: The nature of this jellyfish-like abomination jumping out of the ground has not been studied. On contact it causes damage similar to that of a strong acid. Generates artifacts: "Slime", "Slug", "Mica".Moreoever, the mentioned artifacts are in fact generated by Fruit punch, which is mentioned both in the final version of the game and in their build descriptions. Fruit punch is also labeled as 'ameba' in certain files of the final game, and its description from the PDA encyclopedia is very similar to that from the builds: An anomaly of unknown nature. On contact inflicts injuries similar to the effects of a strong acid. Forms three types of artifacts: Slime, Slug, and Mica.So at first glance one might think that Amoeba is nothing more than just a technical name for Fruit punch - however, that's not entirely true, because there is a seperate config file for the Amoeba anomaly that first appeared in build 1994 from 2004 and which can still be found in the files of the final game, as well as its model that was first included in the same build: https://preview.redd.it/cqs4yfi3lbqc1.png?width=1279&format=png&auto=webp&s=58ee5e2b7f6ed4e51b1e26a4ec8cf3d95d796f5f Unlike Rusty hair, Amoeba is not present in any of the pre-release builds, but the principle of operation was that it would hide in the ground in its default state and 'jump' into the air upon contact, dealing chemical damage. This, along with the model, fits the above-mentioned build description, where it is described as 'jellyfish-like' and 'jumping out of the ground'. animation of Ameoba's jump However, it's also worth noting that the model is labeled as 'studen' (студень) - aspic. And the original name of the Fruit punch anomaly, 'Холодец' (Kholodets), actually means aspic. From all this it can be assumed that Amoeba and Fruit punch were originally one thing or were closely related, and only later did the devs decide to turn them into two separate anomalies, but some connections remained at the technical level, hence Fruit punch is known as 'ameba' in some files, and the Amoeba model is called 'studen'. The concept of Amoeba was abandoned sometime in 2005, but, as I mentioned, the files associated with it can be found in the final version of the game. It's worth noting that, contrary to the description, the config file indicates that this anomaly would generate the same artifacts as Rusty hair - "Thorn", "Crystal Thorn", and "Sea Urchin".
https://preview.redd.it/qjzug7ijrbqc1.png?width=1675&format=png&auto=webp&s=c0ed9868454c9c7e53bcd2735852a980e5d2c6e0 There are no descriptions related to it, neither in the files nor in the design documents, and like Amoeba it doesn't appear in any builds, but its files can be found even in the final version of the game. The principle of operation was that it would lie spread out on the ground, and in case of contact it would close inwards, 'grabbing' the victim - hence the name. animation of Grabber's catch It's worth noting that Amoeba shares the config file with Grabber, where they are labeled as 'ameba' and 'ameba1'. Like the previous anomaly, Grabber was supposed to deal chemical damage and would generate the same types of artifacts. And that would be it. Perhaps we'll see similar anomalies in the upcoming sequel. |
2024.03.09 01:59 Storminhere Sibo to h pylori, c diff, and E. coli?!
 | I had sibo. Did 2 rounds of Rifaxin and the other drug whose name is slipping from my brain right now. Also did months of candibactin ar+br. Second sibo test came back negative. submitted by Storminhere to SIBO [link] [comments] Other tests showed Fructan intolerance. I take digestive enzymes, Tudca, and Atrantil with food. I take LDN, motility pro, triphala, and magnesium at night. Other supplements include a multi, benfo, Florastor, and akkermansia. Still have bloating and have trouble eating more than one meal per day. Latest GI panel has major changes from last time. Including c diff!? Now what do I do? |
2024.02.29 22:01 wild_r4pt0r we are a part of ecosystem thus we take advantages of animals as well as they take it of us
i support veganism as a diet and in the factor of buying things like cruelty free cosmetics and such. though i find the extermist side weird, for example saying that riding horses is animal abuse, that keeping pets is unmoral because its against their will or that having carnivorous ones especially since you feed them meat. i think that feeding cats or dogs plant based diets is unhealthy for them, because theyve evolved to eat meat specifically, not plants. if given a choice, they chose meat, cause thats whats most nutricious and best for them. i suppose if you wanted to feed them vegan, youd have to spend A LOT on it, as well as extra vet visits to make 1000% sure everything is okay. anyway, we used animals for thousands of years. for transport, work, defense. and we're not the only species that does it. for example: mutualism, commensalism and symbiosis. tarantula spiders will "adopt" frogs so they protect its eggs, and gain protection from predators in return. ravens help wolves find prey. both sides win. same was for animals (except those intended for slaughter).
also - exotic wild pets. as long as their needs are perfectly met its fine to keep them in captivity in my opinion. for example reptiles. some of them arent really needy, just a terrarium with the essentials and a lamp will do the job. it resembles the natural habitat enough and the animal gains safety, guaranteed food, no predators and illness treatment.
so for me, i wouldnt dive too deep into it. we're animals as well. living vegan 100% isnt possible anyway, because all of the medicines were tested on animals. if you try to be a 100% good person, still not possible - by your buying choicies you still may support brands that are highly unethical and wont even know about it sometimes. just do as much good as you can, no one is perfect.
submitted by wild_r4pt0r to DebateAVegan [link] [comments]
also - exotic wild pets. as long as their needs are perfectly met its fine to keep them in captivity in my opinion. for example reptiles. some of them arent really needy, just a terrarium with the essentials and a lamp will do the job. it resembles the natural habitat enough and the animal gains safety, guaranteed food, no predators and illness treatment.
so for me, i wouldnt dive too deep into it. we're animals as well. living vegan 100% isnt possible anyway, because all of the medicines were tested on animals. if you try to be a 100% good person, still not possible - by your buying choicies you still may support brands that are highly unethical and wont even know about it sometimes. just do as much good as you can, no one is perfect.
2024.02.26 18:01 fishing_in_spaceYT The Gods are Microorganisms and the Masters of Game
Strictly speaking, I suppose this is not a ‘conspiracy’ theory but it is a perspective that has fundemental and world changing implications so that I think it fits the theme or interest of those here. The other thing is, I have tried posting to other more directly relevant subs but it always gets removed or ignored
So the gods are microorganisms. Put simply, deities, spirits and other supernatural entities central to the folk, mythic and religious traditions around the world are ways mankind has personified, and deified, the unaccountable phenomena in their lives.
In the main, that is microorganisms. More precisely I should say that the gods are the archetypal identification of microbial activity.
Mankind has often believed in invisible forces that influence their lives. However, we often approach this as mere fantasy thinking but fail to consider most ancient religious practices were rooted in observable, physical hygienic practices.
An easy example is the use of incense to ‘cleanse’ evil spirits. Often, special ‘holy’ plant or trees resins were used that contain antimicrobial properties against harmful organisms. One of the primary ways ancient peoples identified the corruption or unholiness of a place or thing was through smell. Foul smell was associated with evil or demonic forces.
Smell of course is one of the direct conscious ways in which we interact with the microbial. Food spoilage and mildew were commonly associated with mischevious household spirits, the results of microbial activity.
In a more specific context, mankind’s switch to agriculture was due to the employment of yeast in the fermentation of cereal grains and fruits/honey. Indeed the reason farming became a practice was in order to more easily acquire the ingredients to ferment into alcohol.
In those times, beer was an actual foodsource, a meal rather than a beverage. For example the Sumerians had a porridge of around 2% alcohol they ate daily. Not only did this actually allow for the digestion of the grains, the fermentation created many other important vitamins and a high protein amount while the alcohol worked to aid in the digestive process. Furthermore, these meals were highly probiotic, containing important yeasts and bacteria that would benefit the microbiome in many ways.
The literature around ancient fermentation references the invitation of spirits or gods into the brewing vessels. In fact this use of microbiology kickstarted human civilization so it is integral to understand how they viewed yeast and fermentation in a religious context.
It is worth noting that religious sacraments today still are centered around wine consumption as being a vessel for god or the gods. Hence why the new age of gods at the dawn of the agricultural revolution gave to man as their primary gift, alcohol. Such as the Sumerian god Marduk.
Libation is another related practice in which to honor the gods, give thanks to the spirits of the land or as an offering to the deceased or ancestors, alcohol is poured out on the soil or presented to an icon. Now that we know this to be a highly probiotic foodsource, we can speculate that the practice originally intended to fill the environment with active cultures as a sign of thanksgiving and the hopes of prosperity.
Speaking of probiotics, the gut in many cultures was seen as the location of the soul. This makes sense of certain notions as ‘food nourishing the soul’ or ‘nectar of the gods’ or ‘diseases being demonic forces’ which implies a spiritual invasion of an equally spiritual aspect of the human body. In this way, the soul and spirituality itself is related to the gut microbiome.
Ancient gods are derivative of shamanic and nomadic tribal beliefs. Their most common motif found around the world is referred to as the Master of Game, also called the Lord or Mistress of Game/Animals.
These were a sort of totemic guardian spirit who were responsible for ensuring enough game animals, medicines, and other important ecological niches were distributed every season. There were taboos and rules in place that must be observed to honor the master of game, if not, you could be punished usually in the form of disease or the game could be withheld.
An example of this could be a hunter going after a deer. The master of game is this invisible force that will decide the success of the hunt. The hunter is successful but must follow the cultural guides of honoring the deer and the master of game. There were hygienic practices alongside this. Improper handling of the deer would lead to disease, aka parasitic infection. So too would over hunting the deer populations.
Artemis is one such god that was derivative of a master of game motif, to give another example.
Many of the moral teachings of a culture derive from associating behavior and action with overall health and well-being of a community. Sins or taboos initially revolved around that maintaining of microbial health. Omens became a practice of trying to identify the invisible influences through archetypal signs, the way a tracker would read signs to find an animal. Divination was a type of tracking of the unconscious, invisible or spiritual (microbial)
Not to say that every ancient practice or belief is necessarily accurate of microbial procedures or identification, merely that humans can intuitively observe and sense the invisible life around us as it is inherent to existence. On top of this we play host to and are influenced by the trillions of microbes in and around us, whether commensal or parasitic. The imagination and language plays a large role in this. In order to synthesize and make sense of experiences of phenomena, man’s imaginative thinking supported the process of understanding and relating the invisible phenomena they encountered.
Even in modern culture, god often takes the role of luck modifier, thanksgiving for meals and a miraculous healer of disease. Such as praying to recover from sickness as a distinct and primary function of most religions. Another term associated with this hygienic microbial origin is the popular phrase ‘cleanliness is close to godliness’
In other words, spiritual health and well being, and luck, is directly tied to the microbial health of an individual and their environment/community. High parasite stress leads to negative influence, inflammation, disease and misfortune. For example T Gondii increases risk behavior and associated with more chances of car crashes. T Gondii may be considered a master of game for the cat and other mammals. Or perhaps Rabies as a master of game for the wolf. In domesticating the wolf, the shaman had to ensure that he would not succumb to the beastial rage hidden in the wolf’s spirit. Domestication too leads to the sharing of microbiome, thus, unconscious images and archetypal dreams can be related to the microbiome.
Overall the approach of gods and masters of game as microorganisms gives us a new way at looking at the microscopic world, they are the sublimity of nature and the ‘background’ or unconscious influence of all life itself.
The ancient traditions provide us with the perspective of viewing microorganisms as intelligent and interconnected in meaningful ways to the ego, fortune and other metaphysical and psycho-social phenomena.
The role of the shaman, priest, witch, magi, monk etc was that of attempting to commune and directly influence these microbial forces, which is where ideas of sympathetic magic, sorcery, prayer, exorcisms come from, again usually accompanied with the physical employment of antimicrobial herbs or practices. The environment and food and individuals were animistic, the gods dwelt among them. This is most apparent in many of the folk traditions and supersitions
Ultimately what this speaks to is the ubiquity of experience associated with the unaccountable in trying to understand and utilize it that is core to the human experience and how different cultures try to grasp and imagine this aspect of life and from that how it can become abstract through doctrines and dogmas and traditions
To clarify, I am not pushing any religious beliefs and am not tied to any religion. This is purely from a research standpoint. You could say it is a kind of Jungian approach to microbiology or a microbial approach to Jungian psychology
I know this was a long post and I could go on for hours more but i hope that it gets the general idea across. This topic has been the subject of research for me for a while and now and one of the main topics I approach from many different angles on my youtube channel (fishing in space) for those who may be interested in seeing more.
In any case, thanks for reading
submitted by fishing_in_spaceYT to conspiracy [link] [comments]
So the gods are microorganisms. Put simply, deities, spirits and other supernatural entities central to the folk, mythic and religious traditions around the world are ways mankind has personified, and deified, the unaccountable phenomena in their lives.
In the main, that is microorganisms. More precisely I should say that the gods are the archetypal identification of microbial activity.
Mankind has often believed in invisible forces that influence their lives. However, we often approach this as mere fantasy thinking but fail to consider most ancient religious practices were rooted in observable, physical hygienic practices.
An easy example is the use of incense to ‘cleanse’ evil spirits. Often, special ‘holy’ plant or trees resins were used that contain antimicrobial properties against harmful organisms. One of the primary ways ancient peoples identified the corruption or unholiness of a place or thing was through smell. Foul smell was associated with evil or demonic forces.
Smell of course is one of the direct conscious ways in which we interact with the microbial. Food spoilage and mildew were commonly associated with mischevious household spirits, the results of microbial activity.
In a more specific context, mankind’s switch to agriculture was due to the employment of yeast in the fermentation of cereal grains and fruits/honey. Indeed the reason farming became a practice was in order to more easily acquire the ingredients to ferment into alcohol.
In those times, beer was an actual foodsource, a meal rather than a beverage. For example the Sumerians had a porridge of around 2% alcohol they ate daily. Not only did this actually allow for the digestion of the grains, the fermentation created many other important vitamins and a high protein amount while the alcohol worked to aid in the digestive process. Furthermore, these meals were highly probiotic, containing important yeasts and bacteria that would benefit the microbiome in many ways.
The literature around ancient fermentation references the invitation of spirits or gods into the brewing vessels. In fact this use of microbiology kickstarted human civilization so it is integral to understand how they viewed yeast and fermentation in a religious context.
It is worth noting that religious sacraments today still are centered around wine consumption as being a vessel for god or the gods. Hence why the new age of gods at the dawn of the agricultural revolution gave to man as their primary gift, alcohol. Such as the Sumerian god Marduk.
Libation is another related practice in which to honor the gods, give thanks to the spirits of the land or as an offering to the deceased or ancestors, alcohol is poured out on the soil or presented to an icon. Now that we know this to be a highly probiotic foodsource, we can speculate that the practice originally intended to fill the environment with active cultures as a sign of thanksgiving and the hopes of prosperity.
Speaking of probiotics, the gut in many cultures was seen as the location of the soul. This makes sense of certain notions as ‘food nourishing the soul’ or ‘nectar of the gods’ or ‘diseases being demonic forces’ which implies a spiritual invasion of an equally spiritual aspect of the human body. In this way, the soul and spirituality itself is related to the gut microbiome.
Ancient gods are derivative of shamanic and nomadic tribal beliefs. Their most common motif found around the world is referred to as the Master of Game, also called the Lord or Mistress of Game/Animals.
These were a sort of totemic guardian spirit who were responsible for ensuring enough game animals, medicines, and other important ecological niches were distributed every season. There were taboos and rules in place that must be observed to honor the master of game, if not, you could be punished usually in the form of disease or the game could be withheld.
An example of this could be a hunter going after a deer. The master of game is this invisible force that will decide the success of the hunt. The hunter is successful but must follow the cultural guides of honoring the deer and the master of game. There were hygienic practices alongside this. Improper handling of the deer would lead to disease, aka parasitic infection. So too would over hunting the deer populations.
Artemis is one such god that was derivative of a master of game motif, to give another example.
Many of the moral teachings of a culture derive from associating behavior and action with overall health and well-being of a community. Sins or taboos initially revolved around that maintaining of microbial health. Omens became a practice of trying to identify the invisible influences through archetypal signs, the way a tracker would read signs to find an animal. Divination was a type of tracking of the unconscious, invisible or spiritual (microbial)
Not to say that every ancient practice or belief is necessarily accurate of microbial procedures or identification, merely that humans can intuitively observe and sense the invisible life around us as it is inherent to existence. On top of this we play host to and are influenced by the trillions of microbes in and around us, whether commensal or parasitic. The imagination and language plays a large role in this. In order to synthesize and make sense of experiences of phenomena, man’s imaginative thinking supported the process of understanding and relating the invisible phenomena they encountered.
Even in modern culture, god often takes the role of luck modifier, thanksgiving for meals and a miraculous healer of disease. Such as praying to recover from sickness as a distinct and primary function of most religions. Another term associated with this hygienic microbial origin is the popular phrase ‘cleanliness is close to godliness’
In other words, spiritual health and well being, and luck, is directly tied to the microbial health of an individual and their environment/community. High parasite stress leads to negative influence, inflammation, disease and misfortune. For example T Gondii increases risk behavior and associated with more chances of car crashes. T Gondii may be considered a master of game for the cat and other mammals. Or perhaps Rabies as a master of game for the wolf. In domesticating the wolf, the shaman had to ensure that he would not succumb to the beastial rage hidden in the wolf’s spirit. Domestication too leads to the sharing of microbiome, thus, unconscious images and archetypal dreams can be related to the microbiome.
Overall the approach of gods and masters of game as microorganisms gives us a new way at looking at the microscopic world, they are the sublimity of nature and the ‘background’ or unconscious influence of all life itself.
The ancient traditions provide us with the perspective of viewing microorganisms as intelligent and interconnected in meaningful ways to the ego, fortune and other metaphysical and psycho-social phenomena.
The role of the shaman, priest, witch, magi, monk etc was that of attempting to commune and directly influence these microbial forces, which is where ideas of sympathetic magic, sorcery, prayer, exorcisms come from, again usually accompanied with the physical employment of antimicrobial herbs or practices. The environment and food and individuals were animistic, the gods dwelt among them. This is most apparent in many of the folk traditions and supersitions
Ultimately what this speaks to is the ubiquity of experience associated with the unaccountable in trying to understand and utilize it that is core to the human experience and how different cultures try to grasp and imagine this aspect of life and from that how it can become abstract through doctrines and dogmas and traditions
To clarify, I am not pushing any religious beliefs and am not tied to any religion. This is purely from a research standpoint. You could say it is a kind of Jungian approach to microbiology or a microbial approach to Jungian psychology
I know this was a long post and I could go on for hours more but i hope that it gets the general idea across. This topic has been the subject of research for me for a while and now and one of the main topics I approach from many different angles on my youtube channel (fishing in space) for those who may be interested in seeing more.
In any case, thanks for reading
2024.02.10 17:42 Misterbaboon123 About a humanoid creature from Southwestern Siberia
The Southwestern area of Siberia, located just north of Central to Eastern Kazakhstan, is known to Europe by the times of ancient Greeks. In the lost work of Aristeas of Proconnesus, it is told the semi historical Greek poet from Asia minor journeyed East of the Riphean mountains, the Urals, and found the Issedones, a Saka tribe. At the time Iranic speakers like the Saka and Uralic speakers like the Mansi were the only inhabitants of the area, while much later migrating Turkic waves would assimilate the Iranic people and settle in the area, while also intermixing with the Uralic tribes, leading to most modern pre Russian inhabitants being Siberian Tatars, the remnants of the Golden Horde and the Khanate of Sibir, and Volga Tatars.
The Issedones were believed to be at war with the Arimaspeans. Due to not knowing the Saka language, Greeks assumed their name to mean "one eyed", as they thought it came from Scythian arima 'one' and spou 'eye', however this etymology is totally inconsistent with any actual Iranic languages. This error originated the Greek idea of Arimaspeans being cyclopes. However, the Arimaspeans, while not cyclopes, were not regular men either.
Quoted from an article from Folklore, volume 104 - "All the sources are presumed to derive ultimately from Aristeas. Aeschylus (Prometheus Bound, 803 ff.) characterises them as one-eyed horsemen ; Herodotus agrees, and adds that they steal the gold and that they drove the Scythians west. The only other writer to add more information is John of Tzetzes, a late Byzantine writer who is generally acknowledged to have had access to earlier Greek sources now lost. He characterises the Arimaspeans as strong warriors, good horsemen rich in flocks of cattle and sheep and goats ; they are one-eyed, 'shaggy with hairs, the toughest of men'. The hairiness of the Arimaspeans is confirmed by the unique Kelermes mirror, which appears to show two Arimaspeans in the grypomachy. In the mirror, although the Arimaspeans are hirsute they show no sign of monocularity."-
Removing the one eye fallacy, it seams those people have human, Schtyan/Sakalike culture, but are also hairy and stronger than average. Obviously they are far from the only hairy, bipedal creatures reported in the area. For example in the not so far western Mongolia there is the Almas ; however, while still being bipedal and hairy, the Almas is a much less humanlike and much more Bigfootlike creature. Quoted from the aforementioned article - "Reports of wild people in Central Asia may be found throughout history. A thirteenth-century Armenian traveller reported that the desert was 'inhabited by naked wild men with horse-hair on their heads. The breasts of the females were extremely large and pendant'."-.
Such a short description could point to the Almas itself, known also for the extremely large, pendolous breasts of females, but since it calls them men, not half human animals like satyrs (which is what ancient Greeks and Romans would have seen a bipedal ape as, since they did not have the concept of apes and of man being their relative, and satyrs themselves were likely based on relict bipedal primates now known in European fossil records), it may also rather point to actual humans with hirsute bodies. While the hirsute bodies are mentioned earlier, here they are even said to just have some crazy hairstyles, naked bodies and total lack of modern cultural elements. However there is also the opposite possibility, quoted here from the same article -" Almases are said to live in association with the wild sheep and goats, in the same region as the wild horse (Przewalski's horse), and are said to suck mares' milk. It is a short step from believing that almases live commensally with the indigenous wildlife to believing that they (being anthropomorphic) have dominion over them. - ". Personally I do not believe Issedones could have saw the Almas, basically an Asian Bigfoot, between horses and believed bipedal apelike hominids were horse mounted warriors, and how could the Almas organize into an army and defeat a warlike Indo European tribe ? The Arimaspeans must have been as intelligent as we are...
However, not only Europeans (with the Arimaspeans) and Turko - Mongolic peoples (with the Almas) believed there were unknown, more or less humanlike creatures in the area between Southwestern Siberia, Central Asia and western Mongolia. The aforementioned Khanty - Mansi believe their area, just north of Southwestern Siberia and East of the Urals, is inhabited by the Menk, a supposedly Bigfootlike creature with unusual characteristics. The Menk are known to cryptozoologists as marked hominids. This is a fake category created after a Menk individual from a mysteriously unknown area in the Ural region, who was called Mecheny, meaning the marked one, and had red hair over the body but also a patch of white hair or of naked depigmented skin on an arm. The patch is an individual, not species related trait.
Here the description of the Menk, quoted from Anomalien, a site about paranormal but here most likely reporting actual data collected by Russian researchers - "These omnivorous creatures are about seven feet tall and have powerful bodies with muscular legs and shoulders. Their arms don’t reach below the knees. Their heads, with large glowing eyes, rest low, so it appears as though they have no necks.
The cryptids’ rounded faces aren’t ape-like. They are nocturnal, howl and sometimes wear other animals’ pelts. Marked Hominids have been reported to approach villages of native people. Allegedly, the creatures have been known to trade with humans, communicating by hand gestures."-. And also -" Mecheny was covered with fur, as Volodya had described, and had glowing red eyes. He was about six and a half feet tall. Mecheny glanced at each person and made a soft sound like khe. The legs were like a human’s, not an ape’s. There was no neck." -.
Here we have something with no sagittal crest, shorter arms, long legs, a reportedly "not apelike" face. It lacks most of the characteristics distinguishing the Bigfootlike, Paranthropine morphology, which is found in so many unknown primates over the world. However its low resting head and possibly gorillalike shoulder morphology could mean it is not either truly human. The hairy body, the large glowing eyes and the here not mentioned splayed feet are possibly the only real other non human trait it has, and large eyes and splayed feet were also typical of previous Homo species. Its ability to trade and make clothes, contrasted with the hairiness of the body and compared with its geographic location may point to a link with the aforementioned culture of apparently hairy but also human level intelligent creatures known by Saka and later by Greek colonists as Arimaspeans.
According to our Greek sources, the Arimaspeans lived on the Eastern foothills of the Ripheans/Ural mountains, in Southwestern Siberia. They drove the Issedones, a Saka tribe, south to Kazakhstan. In turn the Issedones drove the Scythians west of the Urals. What the Arimaspeans could have been ? They could have been a Iranic tribe, or a culturally Iranicized Uralic tribe with Jomon/Ainu levels of body hairiness, which is not very hairy but still a bit more than Central Asians, or they could have been a different species of humans, if they are one and the same with the Menk, and if the Menk is not a subspecies of the Almas/ Bigfoot from Mongolia, which would mean it is not the same as the Arimaspeans themselves. Due to their mix of primitive and modern traits and their human intelligence, necessary to addomesticate the horse, producing weapons and waging war on the Saka, they may be the fabled but unlikely to still live relict Neanderthal. At least they are the most likely candidate to the title of relict Neanderthal /Denisova.
But why so hairy, when Neanderthals and archaic Sapiens were only as hairy as we are ? It could be a genetic defect born from inbreeding in small numbered populations. If it proved to be advantageous, it may have become a stabilized trait. Then the Neanderthals had short necks and large eyes, and the ones from Central Asia, who intermixed with the Denisova, averaged in height possibly up to 5'10, 4 inches taller than European Neanderthals. Not only, we likely underestimate the average height of hominids when we extrapolate it from bone remains. This could validate the image of nigh human, red, brown or black haired with wild hairstyles, somehow hairy bodied, naked or pelt clad savages mounted on domesticated horses the Saka had in mind when describing their northern neighbors. I believe overtime they feralized and disappeared from most of their old range, becoming what is now known by the Mansi as the Menk.
submitted by Misterbaboon123 to HighStrangeness [link] [comments]
The Issedones were believed to be at war with the Arimaspeans. Due to not knowing the Saka language, Greeks assumed their name to mean "one eyed", as they thought it came from Scythian arima 'one' and spou 'eye', however this etymology is totally inconsistent with any actual Iranic languages. This error originated the Greek idea of Arimaspeans being cyclopes. However, the Arimaspeans, while not cyclopes, were not regular men either.
Quoted from an article from Folklore, volume 104 - "All the sources are presumed to derive ultimately from Aristeas. Aeschylus (Prometheus Bound, 803 ff.) characterises them as one-eyed horsemen ; Herodotus agrees, and adds that they steal the gold and that they drove the Scythians west. The only other writer to add more information is John of Tzetzes, a late Byzantine writer who is generally acknowledged to have had access to earlier Greek sources now lost. He characterises the Arimaspeans as strong warriors, good horsemen rich in flocks of cattle and sheep and goats ; they are one-eyed, 'shaggy with hairs, the toughest of men'. The hairiness of the Arimaspeans is confirmed by the unique Kelermes mirror, which appears to show two Arimaspeans in the grypomachy. In the mirror, although the Arimaspeans are hirsute they show no sign of monocularity."-
Removing the one eye fallacy, it seams those people have human, Schtyan/Sakalike culture, but are also hairy and stronger than average. Obviously they are far from the only hairy, bipedal creatures reported in the area. For example in the not so far western Mongolia there is the Almas ; however, while still being bipedal and hairy, the Almas is a much less humanlike and much more Bigfootlike creature. Quoted from the aforementioned article - "Reports of wild people in Central Asia may be found throughout history. A thirteenth-century Armenian traveller reported that the desert was 'inhabited by naked wild men with horse-hair on their heads. The breasts of the females were extremely large and pendant'."-.
Such a short description could point to the Almas itself, known also for the extremely large, pendolous breasts of females, but since it calls them men, not half human animals like satyrs (which is what ancient Greeks and Romans would have seen a bipedal ape as, since they did not have the concept of apes and of man being their relative, and satyrs themselves were likely based on relict bipedal primates now known in European fossil records), it may also rather point to actual humans with hirsute bodies. While the hirsute bodies are mentioned earlier, here they are even said to just have some crazy hairstyles, naked bodies and total lack of modern cultural elements. However there is also the opposite possibility, quoted here from the same article -" Almases are said to live in association with the wild sheep and goats, in the same region as the wild horse (Przewalski's horse), and are said to suck mares' milk. It is a short step from believing that almases live commensally with the indigenous wildlife to believing that they (being anthropomorphic) have dominion over them. - ". Personally I do not believe Issedones could have saw the Almas, basically an Asian Bigfoot, between horses and believed bipedal apelike hominids were horse mounted warriors, and how could the Almas organize into an army and defeat a warlike Indo European tribe ? The Arimaspeans must have been as intelligent as we are...
However, not only Europeans (with the Arimaspeans) and Turko - Mongolic peoples (with the Almas) believed there were unknown, more or less humanlike creatures in the area between Southwestern Siberia, Central Asia and western Mongolia. The aforementioned Khanty - Mansi believe their area, just north of Southwestern Siberia and East of the Urals, is inhabited by the Menk, a supposedly Bigfootlike creature with unusual characteristics. The Menk are known to cryptozoologists as marked hominids. This is a fake category created after a Menk individual from a mysteriously unknown area in the Ural region, who was called Mecheny, meaning the marked one, and had red hair over the body but also a patch of white hair or of naked depigmented skin on an arm. The patch is an individual, not species related trait.
Here the description of the Menk, quoted from Anomalien, a site about paranormal but here most likely reporting actual data collected by Russian researchers - "These omnivorous creatures are about seven feet tall and have powerful bodies with muscular legs and shoulders. Their arms don’t reach below the knees. Their heads, with large glowing eyes, rest low, so it appears as though they have no necks.
The cryptids’ rounded faces aren’t ape-like. They are nocturnal, howl and sometimes wear other animals’ pelts. Marked Hominids have been reported to approach villages of native people. Allegedly, the creatures have been known to trade with humans, communicating by hand gestures."-. And also -" Mecheny was covered with fur, as Volodya had described, and had glowing red eyes. He was about six and a half feet tall. Mecheny glanced at each person and made a soft sound like khe. The legs were like a human’s, not an ape’s. There was no neck." -.
Here we have something with no sagittal crest, shorter arms, long legs, a reportedly "not apelike" face. It lacks most of the characteristics distinguishing the Bigfootlike, Paranthropine morphology, which is found in so many unknown primates over the world. However its low resting head and possibly gorillalike shoulder morphology could mean it is not either truly human. The hairy body, the large glowing eyes and the here not mentioned splayed feet are possibly the only real other non human trait it has, and large eyes and splayed feet were also typical of previous Homo species. Its ability to trade and make clothes, contrasted with the hairiness of the body and compared with its geographic location may point to a link with the aforementioned culture of apparently hairy but also human level intelligent creatures known by Saka and later by Greek colonists as Arimaspeans.
According to our Greek sources, the Arimaspeans lived on the Eastern foothills of the Ripheans/Ural mountains, in Southwestern Siberia. They drove the Issedones, a Saka tribe, south to Kazakhstan. In turn the Issedones drove the Scythians west of the Urals. What the Arimaspeans could have been ? They could have been a Iranic tribe, or a culturally Iranicized Uralic tribe with Jomon/Ainu levels of body hairiness, which is not very hairy but still a bit more than Central Asians, or they could have been a different species of humans, if they are one and the same with the Menk, and if the Menk is not a subspecies of the Almas/ Bigfoot from Mongolia, which would mean it is not the same as the Arimaspeans themselves. Due to their mix of primitive and modern traits and their human intelligence, necessary to addomesticate the horse, producing weapons and waging war on the Saka, they may be the fabled but unlikely to still live relict Neanderthal. At least they are the most likely candidate to the title of relict Neanderthal /Denisova.
But why so hairy, when Neanderthals and archaic Sapiens were only as hairy as we are ? It could be a genetic defect born from inbreeding in small numbered populations. If it proved to be advantageous, it may have become a stabilized trait. Then the Neanderthals had short necks and large eyes, and the ones from Central Asia, who intermixed with the Denisova, averaged in height possibly up to 5'10, 4 inches taller than European Neanderthals. Not only, we likely underestimate the average height of hominids when we extrapolate it from bone remains. This could validate the image of nigh human, red, brown or black haired with wild hairstyles, somehow hairy bodied, naked or pelt clad savages mounted on domesticated horses the Saka had in mind when describing their northern neighbors. I believe overtime they feralized and disappeared from most of their old range, becoming what is now known by the Mansi as the Menk.
2024.02.08 19:17 Misterbaboon123 About a West Siberian "Bigfoot"
This post is only tangentially about Bigfoot, but it still focuses on a bipedal, unknown primate. The nature of this creature however is here speculated to be actually way, way more human, while the Australopithecine /Paranthropine nature of Bigfoot and similia is reaffirmed.
The Southwestern area of Siberia, located just north of Central to Eastern Kazakhstan, is known to Europe by the times of ancient Greeks. In the lost work of Aristeas of Proconnesus, it is told the semi historical Greek poet from Asia minor journeyed East of the Riphean mountains, the Urals, and found the Issedones, a Saka tribe. At the time Iranic speakers like the Saka and Uralic speakers like the Mansi were the only inhabitants of the area, while much later migrating Turkic waves would assimilate the Iranic people and settle in the area, while also intermixing with the Uralic tribes, leading to most modern pre Russian inhabitants being Siberian Tatars, the remnants of the Golden Horde and the Khanate of Sibir, and Volga Tatars.
The Issedones were believed to be at war with the Arimaspeans. Due to not knowing the Saka language, Greeks assumed their name to mean "one eyed", as they thought it came from Scythian arima 'one' and spou 'eye', however this etymology is totally inconsistent with any actual Iranic languages. This error originated the Greek idea of Arimaspeans being cyclopes. However, the Arimaspeans, while not cyclopes, were not regular men either.
Quoted from an article from Folklore, volume 104 - "All the sources are presumed to derive ultimately from Aristeas. Aeschylus (Prometheus Bound, 803 ff.) characterises them as one-eyed horsemen ; Herodotus agrees, and adds that they steal the gold and that they drove the Scythians west. The only other writer to add more information is John of Tzetzes, a late Byzantine writer who is generally acknowledged to have had access to earlier Greek sources now lost. He characterises the Arimaspeans as strong warriors, good horsemen rich in flocks of cattle and sheep and goats ; they are one-eyed, 'shaggy with hairs, the toughest of men'. The hairiness of the Arimaspeans is confirmed by the unique Kelermes mirror, which appears to show two Arimaspeans in the grypomachy. In the mirror, although the Arimaspeans are hirsute they show no sign of monocularity."-
Removing the one eye fallacy, it seams those people have human, Schtyan/Sakalike culture, but are also hairy and stronger than average. Obviously they are far from the only hairy, bipedal creatures reported in the area. For example in the not so far western Mongolia there is the Almas ; however, while still being bipedal and hairy, the Almas is a much less humanlike and much more Bigfootlike creature. Quoted from the aforementioned article - "Reports of wild people in Central Asia may be found throughout history. A thirteenth-century Armenian traveller reported that the desert was 'inhabited by naked wild men with horse-hair on their heads. The breasts of the females were extremely large and pendant'."-.
Such a short description could point to the Almas itself, known also for the extremely large, pendolous breasts of females, but since it calls them men, not half human animals like satyrs (which is what ancient Greeks and Romans would have seen a bipedal ape as, since they did not have the concept of apes and of man being their relative, and satyrs themselves were likely based on relict bipedal primates now known in European fossil records), it may also rather point to actual humans with hirsute bodies. While the hirsute bodies are mentioned earlier, here they are even said to just have some crazy hairstyles, naked bodies and total lack of modern cultural elements. However there is also the opposite possibility, quoted here from the same article -" Almases are said to live in association with the wild sheep and goats, in the same region as the wild horse (Przewalski's horse), and are said to suck mares' milk. It is a short step from believing that almases live commensally with the indigenous wildlife to believing that they (being anthropomorphic) have dominion over them. - ". Personally I do not believe Issedones could have saw the Almas, basically an Asian Bigfoot, between horses and believed bipedal apelike hominids were horse mounted warriors, and how could the Almas organize into an army and defeat a warlike Indo European tribe ? The Arimaspeans must have been as intelligent as we are...
However, not only Europeans (with the Arimaspeans) and Turko - Mongolic peoples (with the Almas) believed there were unknown, more or less humanlike creatures in the area between Southwestern Siberia, Central Asia and western Mongolia. The aforementioned Khanty - Mansi believe their area, just north of Southwestern Siberia and East of the Urals, is inhabited by the Menk, a supposedly Bigfootlike creature with unusual characteristics. The Menk are known to cryptozoologists as marked hominids. This is a fake category created after a Menk individual from a mysteriously unknown area in the Ural region, who was called Mecheny, meaning the marked one, and had red hair over the body but also a patch of white hair or of naked depigmented skin on an arm. The patch is an individual, not species related trait.
Here the description of the Menk, quoted from Anomalien, a site about paranormal but here most likely reporting actual data collected by Russian researchers - "These omnivorous creatures are about seven feet tall and have powerful bodies with muscular legs and shoulders. Their arms don’t reach below the knees. Their heads, with large glowing eyes, rest low, so it appears as though they have no necks.
The cryptids’ rounded faces aren’t ape-like. They are nocturnal, howl and sometimes wear other animals’ pelts. Marked Hominids have been reported to approach villages of native people. Allegedly, the creatures have been known to trade with humans, communicating by hand gestures."-. And also -" Mecheny was covered with fur, as Volodya had described, and had glowing red eyes. He was about six and a half feet tall. Mecheny glanced at each person and made a soft sound like khe. The legs were like a human’s, not an ape’s. There was no neck." -.
Here we have something with no sagittal crest, shorter arms, long legs, a reportedly "not apelike" face. It lacks most of the characteristics distinguishing the Bigfootlike, Paranthropine morphology, which is found in so many unknown primates over the world. However its low resting head and possibly gorillalike shoulder morphology could mean it is not either truly human. The hairy body, the large glowing eyes and the here not mentioned splayed feet are possibly the only real other non human trait it has, and large eyes and splayed feet were also typical of previous Homo species. Its ability to trade and make clothes, contrasted with the hairiness of the body and compared with its geographic location may point to a link with the aforementioned culture of apparently hairy but also human level intelligent creatures known by Saka and later by Greek colonists as Arimaspeans.
According to our Greek sources, the Arimaspeans lived on the Eastern foothills of the Ripheans/Ural mountains, in Southwestern Siberia. They drove the Issedones, a Saka tribe, south to Kazakhstan. In turn the Issedones drove the Scythians west of the Urals. What the Arimaspeans could have been ? They could have been a Iranic tribe, or a culturally Iranicized Uralic tribe with Jomon/Ainu levels of body hairiness, which is not very hairy but still a bit more than Central Asians, or they could have been a different species of humans, if they are one and the same with the Menk, and if the Menk is not a subspecies of the Almas/ Bigfoot from Mongolia. Due to their mix of primitive and modern traits and their human intelligence, necessary to addomesticate the horse, producing weapons and waging war on the Saka, they may be the fabled but unlikely to still live relict Neanderthal. At least they are the most likely candidate to the title of relict Neanderthal /Denisova.
But why so hairy, when Neanderthals and archaic Sapiens were only as hairy as we are ? It could be a genetic defect born from inbreeding in small numbered populations. If it proved to be advantageous, it may have become a stabilized trait. Then the Neanderthals had short necks and large eyes, and the ones from Central Asia, who intermixed with the Denisova, averaged in height possibly up to 5'10, 4 inches taller than European Neanderthals. Not only, we likely underestimate the average height of hominids when we extrapolate it from bone remains. This could validate the image of nigh human, red, brown or black haired with wild hairstyles, somehow hairy bodied, naked or pelt clad savages mounted on domesticated horses the Saka had in mind when describing their northern neighbors. Overtime they feralized and disappeared from most of their old range, becoming what is now known by the Mansi as the Menk.
I would like to discuss about all of this, but I also have a genuine question to whoever lives in the same area as the Mansi, or studied their legends for any purpose... Is the Menk connected with the Kyolat Syakhl, the Mountain of the Dead from Mansi folklore ?
submitted by Misterbaboon123 to bigfoot [link] [comments]
The Southwestern area of Siberia, located just north of Central to Eastern Kazakhstan, is known to Europe by the times of ancient Greeks. In the lost work of Aristeas of Proconnesus, it is told the semi historical Greek poet from Asia minor journeyed East of the Riphean mountains, the Urals, and found the Issedones, a Saka tribe. At the time Iranic speakers like the Saka and Uralic speakers like the Mansi were the only inhabitants of the area, while much later migrating Turkic waves would assimilate the Iranic people and settle in the area, while also intermixing with the Uralic tribes, leading to most modern pre Russian inhabitants being Siberian Tatars, the remnants of the Golden Horde and the Khanate of Sibir, and Volga Tatars.
The Issedones were believed to be at war with the Arimaspeans. Due to not knowing the Saka language, Greeks assumed their name to mean "one eyed", as they thought it came from Scythian arima 'one' and spou 'eye', however this etymology is totally inconsistent with any actual Iranic languages. This error originated the Greek idea of Arimaspeans being cyclopes. However, the Arimaspeans, while not cyclopes, were not regular men either.
Quoted from an article from Folklore, volume 104 - "All the sources are presumed to derive ultimately from Aristeas. Aeschylus (Prometheus Bound, 803 ff.) characterises them as one-eyed horsemen ; Herodotus agrees, and adds that they steal the gold and that they drove the Scythians west. The only other writer to add more information is John of Tzetzes, a late Byzantine writer who is generally acknowledged to have had access to earlier Greek sources now lost. He characterises the Arimaspeans as strong warriors, good horsemen rich in flocks of cattle and sheep and goats ; they are one-eyed, 'shaggy with hairs, the toughest of men'. The hairiness of the Arimaspeans is confirmed by the unique Kelermes mirror, which appears to show two Arimaspeans in the grypomachy. In the mirror, although the Arimaspeans are hirsute they show no sign of monocularity."-
Removing the one eye fallacy, it seams those people have human, Schtyan/Sakalike culture, but are also hairy and stronger than average. Obviously they are far from the only hairy, bipedal creatures reported in the area. For example in the not so far western Mongolia there is the Almas ; however, while still being bipedal and hairy, the Almas is a much less humanlike and much more Bigfootlike creature. Quoted from the aforementioned article - "Reports of wild people in Central Asia may be found throughout history. A thirteenth-century Armenian traveller reported that the desert was 'inhabited by naked wild men with horse-hair on their heads. The breasts of the females were extremely large and pendant'."-.
Such a short description could point to the Almas itself, known also for the extremely large, pendolous breasts of females, but since it calls them men, not half human animals like satyrs (which is what ancient Greeks and Romans would have seen a bipedal ape as, since they did not have the concept of apes and of man being their relative, and satyrs themselves were likely based on relict bipedal primates now known in European fossil records), it may also rather point to actual humans with hirsute bodies. While the hirsute bodies are mentioned earlier, here they are even said to just have some crazy hairstyles, naked bodies and total lack of modern cultural elements. However there is also the opposite possibility, quoted here from the same article -" Almases are said to live in association with the wild sheep and goats, in the same region as the wild horse (Przewalski's horse), and are said to suck mares' milk. It is a short step from believing that almases live commensally with the indigenous wildlife to believing that they (being anthropomorphic) have dominion over them. - ". Personally I do not believe Issedones could have saw the Almas, basically an Asian Bigfoot, between horses and believed bipedal apelike hominids were horse mounted warriors, and how could the Almas organize into an army and defeat a warlike Indo European tribe ? The Arimaspeans must have been as intelligent as we are...
However, not only Europeans (with the Arimaspeans) and Turko - Mongolic peoples (with the Almas) believed there were unknown, more or less humanlike creatures in the area between Southwestern Siberia, Central Asia and western Mongolia. The aforementioned Khanty - Mansi believe their area, just north of Southwestern Siberia and East of the Urals, is inhabited by the Menk, a supposedly Bigfootlike creature with unusual characteristics. The Menk are known to cryptozoologists as marked hominids. This is a fake category created after a Menk individual from a mysteriously unknown area in the Ural region, who was called Mecheny, meaning the marked one, and had red hair over the body but also a patch of white hair or of naked depigmented skin on an arm. The patch is an individual, not species related trait.
Here the description of the Menk, quoted from Anomalien, a site about paranormal but here most likely reporting actual data collected by Russian researchers - "These omnivorous creatures are about seven feet tall and have powerful bodies with muscular legs and shoulders. Their arms don’t reach below the knees. Their heads, with large glowing eyes, rest low, so it appears as though they have no necks.
The cryptids’ rounded faces aren’t ape-like. They are nocturnal, howl and sometimes wear other animals’ pelts. Marked Hominids have been reported to approach villages of native people. Allegedly, the creatures have been known to trade with humans, communicating by hand gestures."-. And also -" Mecheny was covered with fur, as Volodya had described, and had glowing red eyes. He was about six and a half feet tall. Mecheny glanced at each person and made a soft sound like khe. The legs were like a human’s, not an ape’s. There was no neck." -.
Here we have something with no sagittal crest, shorter arms, long legs, a reportedly "not apelike" face. It lacks most of the characteristics distinguishing the Bigfootlike, Paranthropine morphology, which is found in so many unknown primates over the world. However its low resting head and possibly gorillalike shoulder morphology could mean it is not either truly human. The hairy body, the large glowing eyes and the here not mentioned splayed feet are possibly the only real other non human trait it has, and large eyes and splayed feet were also typical of previous Homo species. Its ability to trade and make clothes, contrasted with the hairiness of the body and compared with its geographic location may point to a link with the aforementioned culture of apparently hairy but also human level intelligent creatures known by Saka and later by Greek colonists as Arimaspeans.
According to our Greek sources, the Arimaspeans lived on the Eastern foothills of the Ripheans/Ural mountains, in Southwestern Siberia. They drove the Issedones, a Saka tribe, south to Kazakhstan. In turn the Issedones drove the Scythians west of the Urals. What the Arimaspeans could have been ? They could have been a Iranic tribe, or a culturally Iranicized Uralic tribe with Jomon/Ainu levels of body hairiness, which is not very hairy but still a bit more than Central Asians, or they could have been a different species of humans, if they are one and the same with the Menk, and if the Menk is not a subspecies of the Almas/ Bigfoot from Mongolia. Due to their mix of primitive and modern traits and their human intelligence, necessary to addomesticate the horse, producing weapons and waging war on the Saka, they may be the fabled but unlikely to still live relict Neanderthal. At least they are the most likely candidate to the title of relict Neanderthal /Denisova.
But why so hairy, when Neanderthals and archaic Sapiens were only as hairy as we are ? It could be a genetic defect born from inbreeding in small numbered populations. If it proved to be advantageous, it may have become a stabilized trait. Then the Neanderthals had short necks and large eyes, and the ones from Central Asia, who intermixed with the Denisova, averaged in height possibly up to 5'10, 4 inches taller than European Neanderthals. Not only, we likely underestimate the average height of hominids when we extrapolate it from bone remains. This could validate the image of nigh human, red, brown or black haired with wild hairstyles, somehow hairy bodied, naked or pelt clad savages mounted on domesticated horses the Saka had in mind when describing their northern neighbors. Overtime they feralized and disappeared from most of their old range, becoming what is now known by the Mansi as the Menk.
I would like to discuss about all of this, but I also have a genuine question to whoever lives in the same area as the Mansi, or studied their legends for any purpose... Is the Menk connected with the Kyolat Syakhl, the Mountain of the Dead from Mansi folklore ?
2024.02.07 16:52 Misterbaboon123 The unusuality of the West Siberian "Bigfoot"
The Southwestern area of Siberia, located just north of Central to Eastern Kazakhstan, is known to Europe by the times of ancient Greeks. In the lost work of Aristeas of Proconnesus, it is told the semi historical Greek poet from Asia minor journeyed East of the Riphean mountains, the Urals, and found the Issedones, a Saka tribe. At the time Iranic speakers like the Saka and Uralic speakers like the Mansi were the only inhabitants of the area, while much later migrating Turkic waves would assimilate the Iranic people and settle in the area, while also intermixing with the Uralic tribes, leading to most modern pre Russian inhabitants being Siberian Tatars, the remnants of the Golden Horde and the Khanate of Sibir, and Volga Tatars.
The Issedones were believed to be at war with the Arimaspeans. Due to not knowing the Saka language, Greeks assumed their name to mean "one eyed", as they thought it came from Scythian arima 'one' and spou 'eye', however this etymology is totally inconsistent with any actual Iranic languages. This error originated the Greek idea of Arimaspeans being cyclopes. However, the Arimaspeans, while not cyclopes, were not regular men either.
Quoted from an article from Folklore, volume 104 - "All the sources are presumed to derive ultimately from Aristeas. Aeschylus (Prometheus Bound, 803 ff.) characterises them as one-eyed horsemen ; Herodotus agrees, and adds that they steal the gold and that they drove the Scythians west. The only other writer to add more information is John of Tzetzes, a late Byzantine writer who is generally acknowledged to have had access to earlier Greek sources now lost. He characterises the Arimaspeans as strong warriors, good horsemen rich in flocks of cattle and sheep and goats ; they are one-eyed, 'shaggy with hairs, the toughest of men'. The hairiness of the Arimaspeans is confirmed by the unique Kelermes mirror, which appears to show two Arimaspeans in the grypomachy. In the mirror, although the Arimaspeans are hirsute they show no sign of monocularity."-
Removing the one eye fallacy, it seams those people have human, Schtyan/Sakalike culture, but are also hairy and stronger than average. Obviously they are far from the only hairy, bipedal creatures reported in the area. For example in the not so far western Mongolia there is the Almas, however, while still being bipedal and hairy, this is a much less humanlike and much more Bigfootlike creature which probably is not at all from the same species. Quoting the aforementioned article - "Reports of wild people in Central Asia may be found throughout history. A thirteenth-century Armenian traveller reported that the desert was 'inhabited by naked wild men with horse-hair on their heads. The breasts of the females were extremely large and pendant'."-.
Such a short description could point to the Almas itself, known also for the extremely large, pendolous breasts of females, but since it calls them men, not half human animals like satyrs (which is what ancient Greeks and Romans would have seen a bipedal ape as, since they did not have the concept of apes and of man being their relative, and satyrs themselves were likely based on relict bipedal primates now known in European fossil records), it may also rather point to actual humans with hirsute bodies. While the hirsute bodies are mentioned earlier, here they are even said to just have some crazy hairstyles, naked bodies and total lack of modern cultural elements. However there is also the opposite possibility, quoted here from the same article -" Almases are said to live in association with the wild sheep and goats, in the same region as the wild horse (Przewalski's horse), and are said to suck mares' milk. It is a short step from believing that almases live commensally with the indigenous wildlife to believing that they (being anthropomorphic) have dominion over them. - ".
However, not only Europeans (with the Arimaspeans) and Turko - Mongolic peoples (with the Almas) believed there were unknown humanlike creatures in the area between Southwestern Siberia, Central Asia and western Mongolia. The aforementioned Khanty - Mansi believe their area, just north of Southwestern Siberia and East of the Urals, is inhabited by the Menk, a Bigfootlike creature with unusual characteristics. The Menks are known to cryptozoologists as marked hominids. This is a fake category created after a Menk individual from a mysteriously unknown area in the Ural region called Mecheny, who had red hair over the body but also a patch of white hair or of naked depigmented skin on an arm. The patch is an individual, not species related trait.
Here the description of the Menk, quoted from Anomalien, a site about paranormal but here most likely reporting actual data collected by Russian researchers - "These omnivorous creatures are about seven feet tall and have powerful bodies with muscular legs and shoulders. Their arms don’t reach below the knees. Their heads, with large glowing eyes, rest low, so it appears as though they have no necks.
The cryptids’ rounded faces aren’t ape-like. They are nocturnal, howl and sometimes wear other animals’ pelts. Marked Hominids have been reported to approach villages of native people. Allegedly, the creatures have been known to trade with humans, communicating by hand gestures."-. And also -" Mecheny was covered with fur, as Volodya had described, and had glowing red eyes. He was about six and a half feet tall. Mecheny glanced at each person and made a soft sound like khe. The legs were like a human’s, not an ape’s. There was no neck." -.
Here we have something with no sagittal crest, shorter arms, long legs, a reportedly "not apelike" face, but yet low resting head and possibly gorillalike shoulder morphology ; however, other than that, the hairy body, the large glowing eyes and the here not mentioned splayed feet are possibly the only real non human trait it has, and large eyes and splayed feet were also typical of previous Homo species. It's ability to trade and make clothes*, coupled with the geographic proximity and the hairiness of the body may point to those creatures being the feralized remnants of the aforementioned Arimaspean culture known by Saka and later by Greek colonists.
So what could be found in the area, Bigfootlike creatures, known in Mongolia as Almas, wrongly believed by ancient natives to have a Scythianlike warrior culture, or wild haired, possibly hairier than average on the bodies, naked and warlike savage humans mounted on horses, likely with archaic-ish sapiens, possibly even nanderthaloid face features and whose females have large, pendolous breasts, who overtime feralized into the modern cryptid known as "Menk"? Or possibly even both (two hominid species, one, the Almas, from the Australopithecus/Paranthropus clade, the other, the Arimaspeans, from the Homo genus, likely from our species but with anomalous characteristics) ?
*Actually, there is a population of Bigfootlike creatures, the Caucasian Almasti, known to wear clothes. They do not make them, but rather steal them from humans. It is not even such a remarkable feat, since rarely even orangutans are known to steal clothes and to try to wear them.
submitted by Misterbaboon123 to cryptids [link] [comments]
The Issedones were believed to be at war with the Arimaspeans. Due to not knowing the Saka language, Greeks assumed their name to mean "one eyed", as they thought it came from Scythian arima 'one' and spou 'eye', however this etymology is totally inconsistent with any actual Iranic languages. This error originated the Greek idea of Arimaspeans being cyclopes. However, the Arimaspeans, while not cyclopes, were not regular men either.
Quoted from an article from Folklore, volume 104 - "All the sources are presumed to derive ultimately from Aristeas. Aeschylus (Prometheus Bound, 803 ff.) characterises them as one-eyed horsemen ; Herodotus agrees, and adds that they steal the gold and that they drove the Scythians west. The only other writer to add more information is John of Tzetzes, a late Byzantine writer who is generally acknowledged to have had access to earlier Greek sources now lost. He characterises the Arimaspeans as strong warriors, good horsemen rich in flocks of cattle and sheep and goats ; they are one-eyed, 'shaggy with hairs, the toughest of men'. The hairiness of the Arimaspeans is confirmed by the unique Kelermes mirror, which appears to show two Arimaspeans in the grypomachy. In the mirror, although the Arimaspeans are hirsute they show no sign of monocularity."-
Removing the one eye fallacy, it seams those people have human, Schtyan/Sakalike culture, but are also hairy and stronger than average. Obviously they are far from the only hairy, bipedal creatures reported in the area. For example in the not so far western Mongolia there is the Almas, however, while still being bipedal and hairy, this is a much less humanlike and much more Bigfootlike creature which probably is not at all from the same species. Quoting the aforementioned article - "Reports of wild people in Central Asia may be found throughout history. A thirteenth-century Armenian traveller reported that the desert was 'inhabited by naked wild men with horse-hair on their heads. The breasts of the females were extremely large and pendant'."-.
Such a short description could point to the Almas itself, known also for the extremely large, pendolous breasts of females, but since it calls them men, not half human animals like satyrs (which is what ancient Greeks and Romans would have seen a bipedal ape as, since they did not have the concept of apes and of man being their relative, and satyrs themselves were likely based on relict bipedal primates now known in European fossil records), it may also rather point to actual humans with hirsute bodies. While the hirsute bodies are mentioned earlier, here they are even said to just have some crazy hairstyles, naked bodies and total lack of modern cultural elements. However there is also the opposite possibility, quoted here from the same article -" Almases are said to live in association with the wild sheep and goats, in the same region as the wild horse (Przewalski's horse), and are said to suck mares' milk. It is a short step from believing that almases live commensally with the indigenous wildlife to believing that they (being anthropomorphic) have dominion over them. - ".
However, not only Europeans (with the Arimaspeans) and Turko - Mongolic peoples (with the Almas) believed there were unknown humanlike creatures in the area between Southwestern Siberia, Central Asia and western Mongolia. The aforementioned Khanty - Mansi believe their area, just north of Southwestern Siberia and East of the Urals, is inhabited by the Menk, a Bigfootlike creature with unusual characteristics. The Menks are known to cryptozoologists as marked hominids. This is a fake category created after a Menk individual from a mysteriously unknown area in the Ural region called Mecheny, who had red hair over the body but also a patch of white hair or of naked depigmented skin on an arm. The patch is an individual, not species related trait.
Here the description of the Menk, quoted from Anomalien, a site about paranormal but here most likely reporting actual data collected by Russian researchers - "These omnivorous creatures are about seven feet tall and have powerful bodies with muscular legs and shoulders. Their arms don’t reach below the knees. Their heads, with large glowing eyes, rest low, so it appears as though they have no necks.
The cryptids’ rounded faces aren’t ape-like. They are nocturnal, howl and sometimes wear other animals’ pelts. Marked Hominids have been reported to approach villages of native people. Allegedly, the creatures have been known to trade with humans, communicating by hand gestures."-. And also -" Mecheny was covered with fur, as Volodya had described, and had glowing red eyes. He was about six and a half feet tall. Mecheny glanced at each person and made a soft sound like khe. The legs were like a human’s, not an ape’s. There was no neck." -.
Here we have something with no sagittal crest, shorter arms, long legs, a reportedly "not apelike" face, but yet low resting head and possibly gorillalike shoulder morphology ; however, other than that, the hairy body, the large glowing eyes and the here not mentioned splayed feet are possibly the only real non human trait it has, and large eyes and splayed feet were also typical of previous Homo species. It's ability to trade and make clothes*, coupled with the geographic proximity and the hairiness of the body may point to those creatures being the feralized remnants of the aforementioned Arimaspean culture known by Saka and later by Greek colonists.
So what could be found in the area, Bigfootlike creatures, known in Mongolia as Almas, wrongly believed by ancient natives to have a Scythianlike warrior culture, or wild haired, possibly hairier than average on the bodies, naked and warlike savage humans mounted on horses, likely with archaic-ish sapiens, possibly even nanderthaloid face features and whose females have large, pendolous breasts, who overtime feralized into the modern cryptid known as "Menk"? Or possibly even both (two hominid species, one, the Almas, from the Australopithecus/Paranthropus clade, the other, the Arimaspeans, from the Homo genus, likely from our species but with anomalous characteristics) ?
*Actually, there is a population of Bigfootlike creatures, the Caucasian Almasti, known to wear clothes. They do not make them, but rather steal them from humans. It is not even such a remarkable feat, since rarely even orangutans are known to steal clothes and to try to wear them.
2024.02.07 09:09 Misterbaboon123 The unusuality of the West Siberian "Bigfoot"
The Southwestern area of Siberia, located just north of Central to Eastern Kazakhstan, is known to Europe by the times of ancient Greeks. In the lost work of Aristeas of Proconnesus, it is told the semi historical Greek poet from Asia minor journeyed East of the Riphean mountains, the Urals, and found the Issedones, a Saka tribe. At the time Iranic speakers like the Saka and Uralic speakers like the Mansi were the only inhabitants of the area, while much later migrating Turkic waves would assimilate the Iranic people and settle in the area, while also intermixing with the Uralic tribes, leading to most modern pre Russian inhabitants being Siberian Tatars, the remnants of the Golden Horde and the Khanate of Sibir, and Volga Tatars.
The Issedones were believed to be at war with the Arimaspeans. Due to not knowing the Saka language, Greeks assumed their name to mean "one eyed", as they thought it came from Scythian arima 'one' and spou 'eye', however this etymology is totally inconsistent with any actual Iranic languages. This error originated the Greek idea of Arimaspeans being cyclopes. However, the Arimaspeans, while not cyclopes, were not regular men either.
Quoted from an article from Folklore, volume 104 - "All the sources are presumed to derive ultimately from Aristeas. Aeschylus (Prometheus Bound, 803 ff.) characterises them as one-eyed horsemen ; Herodotus agrees, and adds that they steal the gold and that they drove the Scythians west. The only other writer to add more information is John of Tzetzes, a late Byzantine writer who is generally acknowledged to have had access to earlier Greek sources now lost. He characterises the Arimaspeans as strong warriors, good horsemen rich in flocks of cattle and sheep and goats ; they are one-eyed, 'shaggy with hairs, the toughest of men'. The hairiness of the Arimaspeans is confirmed by the unique Kelermes mirror, which appears to show two Arimaspeans in the grypomachy. In the mirror, although the Arimaspeans are hirsute they show no sign of monocularity."-
Removing the one eye fallacy, it seams those people have human, Schtyan/Sakalike culture, but are also hairy and stronger than average. Obviously they are far from the only hairy, bipedal creatures reported in the area. For example in the not so far western Mongolia there is the Almas, however, while still being bipedal and hairy, this is a much less humanlike and much more Bigfootlike creature which probably is not at all from the same species. Quoting the aforementioned article - "Reports of wild people in Central Asia may be found throughout history. A thirteenth-century Armenian traveller reported that the desert was 'inhabited by naked wild men with horse-hair on their heads. The breasts of the females were extremely large and pendant'."-.
Such a short description could point to the Almas itself, known also for the extremely large, pendolous breasts of females, but since it calls them men, not half human animals like satyrs (which is what ancient Greeks and Romans would have seen a bipedal ape as, since they did not have the concept of apes and of man being their relative, and satyrs themselves were likely based on relict bipedal primates now known in European fossil records), it may also rather point to actual humans with hirsute bodies. While the hirsute bodies are mentioned earlier, here they are even said to just have some crazy hairstyles, naked bodies and total lack of modern cultural elements. However there is also the opposite possibility, quoted here from the same article -" Almases are said to live in association with the wild sheep and goats, in the same region as the wild horse (Przewalski's horse), and are said to suck mares' milk. It is a short step from believing that almases live commensally with the indigenous wildlife to believing that they (being anthropomorphic) have dominion over them. - ".
However, not only Europeans (with the Arimaspeans) and Turko - Mongolic peoples (with the Almas) believed there were unknown humanlike creatures in the area between Southwestern Siberia, Central Asia and western Mongolia. The aforementioned Khanty - Mansi believe their area, just north of Southwestern Siberia and East of the Urals, is inhabited by the Menk, a Bigfootlike creature with unusual characteristics. The Menks are known to cryptozoologists as marked hominids. This is a fake category created after a Menk individual from a mysteriously unknown area in the Ural region called Mecheny, who had red hair over the body but also a patch of white hair or of naked depigmented skin on an arm. The patch is an individual, not species related trait.
Here the description of the Menk, quoted from Anomalien, a site about paranormal but here most likely reporting actual data collected by Russian researchers - "These omnivorous creatures are about seven feet tall and have powerful bodies with muscular legs and shoulders. Their arms don’t reach below the knees. Their heads, with large glowing eyes, rest low, so it appears as though they have no necks.
The cryptids’ rounded faces aren’t ape-like. They are nocturnal, howl and sometimes wear other animals’ pelts. Marked Hominids have been reported to approach villages of native people. Allegedly, the creatures have been known to trade with humans, communicating by hand gestures."-. And also -" Mecheny was covered with fur, as Volodya had described, and had glowing red eyes. He was about six and a half feet tall. Mecheny glanced at each person and made a soft sound like khe. The legs were like a human’s, not an ape’s. There was no neck." -.
Here we have something with no sagittal crest, shorter arms, long legs, a reportedly "not apelike" face, but yet low resting head and possibly gorillalike shoulder morphology ; however, other than that, the hairy body, the large glowing eyes and the here not mentioned splayed feet are possibly the only real non human trait it has, and large eyes and splayed feet were also typical of previous Homo species. It's ability to trade and make clothes*, coupled with the geographic proximity and the hairiness of the body may point to those creatures being the feralized remnants of the aforementioned Arimaspean culture known by Saka and later by Greek colonists.
So what could be found in the area, Bigfootlike creatures, known in Mongolia as Almas, wrongly believed by ancient natives to have a Scythianlike warrior culture, or wild haired, possibly hairier than average on the bodies, naked and warlike savage humans mounted on horses, likely with archaic-ish sapiens, possibly even nanderthaloid face features and whose females have large, pendolous breasts, who overtime feralized into the modern cryptid known as "Menk"? Or possibly even both (two hominid species, one, the Almas, from the Australopithecus/Paranthropus clade, the other, the Arimaspeans, from the Homo genus, likely from our species but with anomalous characteristics) ?
*Actually, there is a population of Bigfootlike creatures, the Caucasian Almasti, known to wear clothes. They do not make them, but rather steal them from humans. It is not even such a remarkable feat, since rarely even orangutans are known to steal clothes and to try to wear them.
submitted by Misterbaboon123 to Cryptozoology [link] [comments]
The Issedones were believed to be at war with the Arimaspeans. Due to not knowing the Saka language, Greeks assumed their name to mean "one eyed", as they thought it came from Scythian arima 'one' and spou 'eye', however this etymology is totally inconsistent with any actual Iranic languages. This error originated the Greek idea of Arimaspeans being cyclopes. However, the Arimaspeans, while not cyclopes, were not regular men either.
Quoted from an article from Folklore, volume 104 - "All the sources are presumed to derive ultimately from Aristeas. Aeschylus (Prometheus Bound, 803 ff.) characterises them as one-eyed horsemen ; Herodotus agrees, and adds that they steal the gold and that they drove the Scythians west. The only other writer to add more information is John of Tzetzes, a late Byzantine writer who is generally acknowledged to have had access to earlier Greek sources now lost. He characterises the Arimaspeans as strong warriors, good horsemen rich in flocks of cattle and sheep and goats ; they are one-eyed, 'shaggy with hairs, the toughest of men'. The hairiness of the Arimaspeans is confirmed by the unique Kelermes mirror, which appears to show two Arimaspeans in the grypomachy. In the mirror, although the Arimaspeans are hirsute they show no sign of monocularity."-
Removing the one eye fallacy, it seams those people have human, Schtyan/Sakalike culture, but are also hairy and stronger than average. Obviously they are far from the only hairy, bipedal creatures reported in the area. For example in the not so far western Mongolia there is the Almas, however, while still being bipedal and hairy, this is a much less humanlike and much more Bigfootlike creature which probably is not at all from the same species. Quoting the aforementioned article - "Reports of wild people in Central Asia may be found throughout history. A thirteenth-century Armenian traveller reported that the desert was 'inhabited by naked wild men with horse-hair on their heads. The breasts of the females were extremely large and pendant'."-.
Such a short description could point to the Almas itself, known also for the extremely large, pendolous breasts of females, but since it calls them men, not half human animals like satyrs (which is what ancient Greeks and Romans would have seen a bipedal ape as, since they did not have the concept of apes and of man being their relative, and satyrs themselves were likely based on relict bipedal primates now known in European fossil records), it may also rather point to actual humans with hirsute bodies. While the hirsute bodies are mentioned earlier, here they are even said to just have some crazy hairstyles, naked bodies and total lack of modern cultural elements. However there is also the opposite possibility, quoted here from the same article -" Almases are said to live in association with the wild sheep and goats, in the same region as the wild horse (Przewalski's horse), and are said to suck mares' milk. It is a short step from believing that almases live commensally with the indigenous wildlife to believing that they (being anthropomorphic) have dominion over them. - ".
However, not only Europeans (with the Arimaspeans) and Turko - Mongolic peoples (with the Almas) believed there were unknown humanlike creatures in the area between Southwestern Siberia, Central Asia and western Mongolia. The aforementioned Khanty - Mansi believe their area, just north of Southwestern Siberia and East of the Urals, is inhabited by the Menk, a Bigfootlike creature with unusual characteristics. The Menks are known to cryptozoologists as marked hominids. This is a fake category created after a Menk individual from a mysteriously unknown area in the Ural region called Mecheny, who had red hair over the body but also a patch of white hair or of naked depigmented skin on an arm. The patch is an individual, not species related trait.
Here the description of the Menk, quoted from Anomalien, a site about paranormal but here most likely reporting actual data collected by Russian researchers - "These omnivorous creatures are about seven feet tall and have powerful bodies with muscular legs and shoulders. Their arms don’t reach below the knees. Their heads, with large glowing eyes, rest low, so it appears as though they have no necks.
The cryptids’ rounded faces aren’t ape-like. They are nocturnal, howl and sometimes wear other animals’ pelts. Marked Hominids have been reported to approach villages of native people. Allegedly, the creatures have been known to trade with humans, communicating by hand gestures."-. And also -" Mecheny was covered with fur, as Volodya had described, and had glowing red eyes. He was about six and a half feet tall. Mecheny glanced at each person and made a soft sound like khe. The legs were like a human’s, not an ape’s. There was no neck." -.
Here we have something with no sagittal crest, shorter arms, long legs, a reportedly "not apelike" face, but yet low resting head and possibly gorillalike shoulder morphology ; however, other than that, the hairy body, the large glowing eyes and the here not mentioned splayed feet are possibly the only real non human trait it has, and large eyes and splayed feet were also typical of previous Homo species. It's ability to trade and make clothes*, coupled with the geographic proximity and the hairiness of the body may point to those creatures being the feralized remnants of the aforementioned Arimaspean culture known by Saka and later by Greek colonists.
So what could be found in the area, Bigfootlike creatures, known in Mongolia as Almas, wrongly believed by ancient natives to have a Scythianlike warrior culture, or wild haired, possibly hairier than average on the bodies, naked and warlike savage humans mounted on horses, likely with archaic-ish sapiens, possibly even nanderthaloid face features and whose females have large, pendolous breasts, who overtime feralized into the modern cryptid known as "Menk"? Or possibly even both (two hominid species, one, the Almas, from the Australopithecus/Paranthropus clade, the other, the Arimaspeans, from the Homo genus, likely from our species but with anomalous characteristics) ?
*Actually, there is a population of Bigfootlike creatures, the Caucasian Almasti, known to wear clothes. They do not make them, but rather steal them from humans. It is not even such a remarkable feat, since rarely even orangutans are known to steal clothes and to try to wear them.
2024.02.01 22:58 Fallout76_Tom Paleomicrobiology, Neurotoxicity and maybe a Blunder
Hello detectives. Get cozy, it’s a long one.
Let’s ask: Why is our POI a paleomicrobiologist?
First remember our story was written during covid. Hi Issa!
How do we know our POI is a paleomicrobiologist?
Recall Raymond Clark’s bio, which was mostly lifted from a real life public figure. Anyone can search a phrase from his bio (try "molecular basis of colonization and infection") to learn about the real scientist. She’s a lady. The major change was the addition of “paleo” to microbiologist. Here’s the full redacted text:
“Redacted is a Royal Society Wolfson Fellow and Senior Lecturer in Microbiology and Infection. Her research career has focused on understanding the molecular basis of colonization and infection by Staphylococcus aureus. Her PhD training at Trinity College Dublin with Redacted involved the biochemical and biophysical characterization of staphylococcal fibrinogen-binding proteins, carrying out part of her thesis work with Redacted. This work led to a redefinition of the ligand-binding site within the fibrinogen binding protein ClfA. As a postdoctoral researcher, Redacted initiated early studies on the molecular basis of protein-mediated biofilm accumulation in S. aureus. In (year changed) she established her research group studying staphylococcal pathogenesis at Trinity College Dublin”
What is paleomicrobiology?
"Paleomicrobiology – Past Human Infections by Didier Raoult & Michel Drancourt features the methods and main achievements in this emerging field of research at the intersection of microbiology and evolution, history and anthropology. New molecular approaches have already provided exciting results, such as confirmation of a single biotype of Yersinia pestis as the causative agent of historical plague pandemics, and the closer proximity of Mycobacterium tuberculosis from ancient skeletons to modern strains than to Mycobacterium bovis, shedding new light on the evolution of major human pathogens and pathogen–population relationships. Firm microbiological diagnoses also provide historians and anthropologists with new data on which to base evaluation of past epidemics.”
March 2019, American Society for Microbiology:“Paleomicrobiology and Microbial Ancient DNA Get to the Root of Disease Mysteries - In 2010, the 5,300-year-old body of a man found frozen and mummified in the Ötztal Alps was finally autopsied. He was affectionately named Ötzi, or the Iceman of Tyrol, and he became a man of intrigue and mystery within the scientific community. Although the cause of death was ruled a homicide due to the discovery of cerebral trauma and an arrow head lodged in Ötzi’s left shoulder, paleomicrobiological analysis of microbial ancient DNA (aDNA) revealed a number of unrelated health concerns lurking within his body…
Thus, the field of paleomicrobiology played a significant role in the investigation of one of the coldest cases in human history.
Paleomicrobiology is the study of microorganisms associated with prehistoric material. It is a fascinating branch of science borne from multiple disciplines including microbiology, anthropology, history, paleontology, and archaeology. The field relies heavily on the analysis of microbial aDNA to diagnose ancient infectious diseases and analyze the virulence, evolution, and lifestyles of ancient pathogens.”
What is Staphylococcus aureus?
Wikipedia “a Gram-positive spherically shaped bacterium, a member of the Bacillota, and is a usual member of the microbiota of the body, frequently found in the upper respiratory tract and on the skin. It is often positive for catalase and nitrate reduction and is a facultative anaerobe that can grow without the need for oxygen. Although S. aureus usually acts as a commensal of the human microbiota, it can also become an opportunistic pathogen, being a common cause of skin infections including abscesses, respiratory infections such as sinusitis, and food poisoning.
An estimated 21% to 30% of the human population are long-term carriers of S. aureus, which can be found as part of the normal skin microbiota, in the nostrils, and as a normal inhabitant of the lower reproductive tract of females.”
What is staphylococcal pathogenesis?
“The pathogenesis of a disease describes the mechanisms by which it develops, progresses, and either persists or is resolved. S. aureus targets T cells mainly with two classes of virulence factors, pore-forming toxins and superantigens. T-cell responses are vital for S. aureus control. Individuals born with T-cell deficiencies are highly susceptible to S. aureus infections. Chimeric antigen receptor T cells, called CAR-T cells, are a genetically engineered cellular therapy which combines the cytotoxic power of T cells with unique antigen specificity. These therapies fuse autologous T cells from a patient with a chimeric receptor that is designed to react solely with antigens present on targeted cells.”
Image search shows T-cells (heh Tsalal, Tuttle) and CAR T-cells usually depicted as spheres with six-fold symmetry, as we see in the Tsalal logo, the Silver Sky Mine logo, the eyes and hands of the girl drawn by Darwin, etc… Image search “Symmetries-in-helices-and-spirals”“Cytokine release syndrome (CRS) and neurotoxicity are common adverse events associated with chimeric antigen receptor (CAR) T cell therapies that result from the inflammatory response initiated when CAR T cells are activated by their target antigen. The typical time to CRS is approximately 1-5 days following CAR T cell infusion. However, time to onset can be delayed and can present beyond 14 days.
Incidence rates will vary depending on the disease and the CAR T cell product infused. Signs and symptoms of CRS can vary significantly between patients and the CAR T cell therapy products themselves. Clinical features include, but are not limited to, fevers, myalgias, malaise, and, in more severe cases, a capillary leak syndrome associated with hypoxia, hypotension, and, occasionally, prolonged cytopenias, coagulopathy, end-organ damage, and organ failure.
These toxicities can generally be managed. However, severe cases, which can be life-threatening or fatal, require intensive medical management, including support with vasoactive pressors, mechanical ventilation, antiepileptics, and antipyretics.
Neurotoxicity refers to neurologic adverse events that can cause confusion, tremors, or difficulty with communication. It is also known as immune effector cell–associated neurotoxicity syndrome (ICANS). ICANS is hypothesized to occur when cytokines disrupt the blood-brain barrier, which can be life threatening.
Neurotoxicity incidence varies and generally coincides with, or shortly follows the onset of, CRS. More severe symptoms can occur after CRS symptoms subside, often more than 5 days after CAR T infusion. Delayed neurotoxicity can arise 3 to 4 weeks after treatment or later. Symptoms of neurotoxicity can include, but are not limited to, aphasia, confusion, drowsiness, delirium, and hallucinations.
In rare cases, bradycardia, hypertension, respiratory depression, and coma also can occur. In some patients, symptoms can progress to CAR T related encephalopathy syndrome (CRES), which can present severe symptoms. For example, patients with serious CRS (Grade ≥3) may develop reversible neurologic complications, including delirium and seizure-like activity. Neurotoxicity may even have life-threatening or fatal consequences.”
My thoughts so far? There’s a fictitious ancient bacteria or lifeform of some kind. That’s where the author takes creative licence to introduce The Unknown. People are knowingly or unknowingly getting that ancient thing into their bloodstream via something like CAR T-cell therapy, then via Staphylococcus aureus spreading symptoms of extreme neurotoxicity such as hallucinations, delerium, confusion, possibly even coma (hello Shakespeare) and death. The combination of elements allows for a variety of interesting angles of misunderstanding, misperception, etc.
Til next time...
submitted by Fallout76_Tom to TrueDetective [link] [comments]
Let’s ask: Why is our POI a paleomicrobiologist?
First remember our story was written during covid. Hi Issa!
How do we know our POI is a paleomicrobiologist?
Recall Raymond Clark’s bio, which was mostly lifted from a real life public figure. Anyone can search a phrase from his bio (try "molecular basis of colonization and infection") to learn about the real scientist. She’s a lady. The major change was the addition of “paleo” to microbiologist. Here’s the full redacted text:
“Redacted is a Royal Society Wolfson Fellow and Senior Lecturer in Microbiology and Infection. Her research career has focused on understanding the molecular basis of colonization and infection by Staphylococcus aureus. Her PhD training at Trinity College Dublin with Redacted involved the biochemical and biophysical characterization of staphylococcal fibrinogen-binding proteins, carrying out part of her thesis work with Redacted. This work led to a redefinition of the ligand-binding site within the fibrinogen binding protein ClfA. As a postdoctoral researcher, Redacted initiated early studies on the molecular basis of protein-mediated biofilm accumulation in S. aureus. In (year changed) she established her research group studying staphylococcal pathogenesis at Trinity College Dublin”
What is paleomicrobiology?
"Paleomicrobiology – Past Human Infections by Didier Raoult & Michel Drancourt features the methods and main achievements in this emerging field of research at the intersection of microbiology and evolution, history and anthropology. New molecular approaches have already provided exciting results, such as confirmation of a single biotype of Yersinia pestis as the causative agent of historical plague pandemics, and the closer proximity of Mycobacterium tuberculosis from ancient skeletons to modern strains than to Mycobacterium bovis, shedding new light on the evolution of major human pathogens and pathogen–population relationships. Firm microbiological diagnoses also provide historians and anthropologists with new data on which to base evaluation of past epidemics.”
March 2019, American Society for Microbiology:“Paleomicrobiology and Microbial Ancient DNA Get to the Root of Disease Mysteries - In 2010, the 5,300-year-old body of a man found frozen and mummified in the Ötztal Alps was finally autopsied. He was affectionately named Ötzi, or the Iceman of Tyrol, and he became a man of intrigue and mystery within the scientific community. Although the cause of death was ruled a homicide due to the discovery of cerebral trauma and an arrow head lodged in Ötzi’s left shoulder, paleomicrobiological analysis of microbial ancient DNA (aDNA) revealed a number of unrelated health concerns lurking within his body…
Thus, the field of paleomicrobiology played a significant role in the investigation of one of the coldest cases in human history.
Paleomicrobiology is the study of microorganisms associated with prehistoric material. It is a fascinating branch of science borne from multiple disciplines including microbiology, anthropology, history, paleontology, and archaeology. The field relies heavily on the analysis of microbial aDNA to diagnose ancient infectious diseases and analyze the virulence, evolution, and lifestyles of ancient pathogens.”
What is Staphylococcus aureus?
Wikipedia “a Gram-positive spherically shaped bacterium, a member of the Bacillota, and is a usual member of the microbiota of the body, frequently found in the upper respiratory tract and on the skin. It is often positive for catalase and nitrate reduction and is a facultative anaerobe that can grow without the need for oxygen. Although S. aureus usually acts as a commensal of the human microbiota, it can also become an opportunistic pathogen, being a common cause of skin infections including abscesses, respiratory infections such as sinusitis, and food poisoning.
An estimated 21% to 30% of the human population are long-term carriers of S. aureus, which can be found as part of the normal skin microbiota, in the nostrils, and as a normal inhabitant of the lower reproductive tract of females.”
What is staphylococcal pathogenesis?
“The pathogenesis of a disease describes the mechanisms by which it develops, progresses, and either persists or is resolved. S. aureus targets T cells mainly with two classes of virulence factors, pore-forming toxins and superantigens. T-cell responses are vital for S. aureus control. Individuals born with T-cell deficiencies are highly susceptible to S. aureus infections. Chimeric antigen receptor T cells, called CAR-T cells, are a genetically engineered cellular therapy which combines the cytotoxic power of T cells with unique antigen specificity. These therapies fuse autologous T cells from a patient with a chimeric receptor that is designed to react solely with antigens present on targeted cells.”
Image search shows T-cells (heh Tsalal, Tuttle) and CAR T-cells usually depicted as spheres with six-fold symmetry, as we see in the Tsalal logo, the Silver Sky Mine logo, the eyes and hands of the girl drawn by Darwin, etc… Image search “Symmetries-in-helices-and-spirals”“Cytokine release syndrome (CRS) and neurotoxicity are common adverse events associated with chimeric antigen receptor (CAR) T cell therapies that result from the inflammatory response initiated when CAR T cells are activated by their target antigen. The typical time to CRS is approximately 1-5 days following CAR T cell infusion. However, time to onset can be delayed and can present beyond 14 days.
Incidence rates will vary depending on the disease and the CAR T cell product infused. Signs and symptoms of CRS can vary significantly between patients and the CAR T cell therapy products themselves. Clinical features include, but are not limited to, fevers, myalgias, malaise, and, in more severe cases, a capillary leak syndrome associated with hypoxia, hypotension, and, occasionally, prolonged cytopenias, coagulopathy, end-organ damage, and organ failure.
These toxicities can generally be managed. However, severe cases, which can be life-threatening or fatal, require intensive medical management, including support with vasoactive pressors, mechanical ventilation, antiepileptics, and antipyretics.
Neurotoxicity refers to neurologic adverse events that can cause confusion, tremors, or difficulty with communication. It is also known as immune effector cell–associated neurotoxicity syndrome (ICANS). ICANS is hypothesized to occur when cytokines disrupt the blood-brain barrier, which can be life threatening.
Neurotoxicity incidence varies and generally coincides with, or shortly follows the onset of, CRS. More severe symptoms can occur after CRS symptoms subside, often more than 5 days after CAR T infusion. Delayed neurotoxicity can arise 3 to 4 weeks after treatment or later. Symptoms of neurotoxicity can include, but are not limited to, aphasia, confusion, drowsiness, delirium, and hallucinations.
In rare cases, bradycardia, hypertension, respiratory depression, and coma also can occur. In some patients, symptoms can progress to CAR T related encephalopathy syndrome (CRES), which can present severe symptoms. For example, patients with serious CRS (Grade ≥3) may develop reversible neurologic complications, including delirium and seizure-like activity. Neurotoxicity may even have life-threatening or fatal consequences.”
My thoughts so far? There’s a fictitious ancient bacteria or lifeform of some kind. That’s where the author takes creative licence to introduce The Unknown. People are knowingly or unknowingly getting that ancient thing into their bloodstream via something like CAR T-cell therapy, then via Staphylococcus aureus spreading symptoms of extreme neurotoxicity such as hallucinations, delerium, confusion, possibly even coma (hello Shakespeare) and death. The combination of elements allows for a variety of interesting angles of misunderstanding, misperception, etc.
Til next time...
"Kotov syndrome"
In A.Kotov's 1971 book Think Like a Grandmaster, he described a situation when a player thinks very hard for a long time in a complicated position but does not find a clear path, then, running low on time, quickly makes a poor move, often a blunder.2024.01.23 23:30 NotApplicableMC "I found a wild mouse, what should I do?" Instructions!
 | Hi, I'm making this post because I see a lot of people in this sub who have found wild mice, so hopefully this helps. submitted by NotApplicableMC to PetMice [link] [comments] 1. How old is the mouse?If it is a baby mouse, please go to this post on how to hand-raise an orphaned baby mouse.If you're not sure how old it is, follow this rough guide:
2. Is the mouse injured?If the mouse is injured you should contact your nearest wildlife rescue/rehabilitation centre. This is especially true if the mouse was bitten by a dog or cat; it is likely to have an infection and will need antibiotic treatment.It is also illegal in some areas to rescue/rehab wild animals without a license, so keep this in mind. Another option is looking for a local licensed rehabber. Search on Facebook, Google, and try asking around in Orphaned Wild Mice & Rats on Facebook. Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/702356170162997/permalink/2058143437917590/ First-aid: If you have an idea of what you're doing, you can try administering first-aid treatment if necessary. However, if you're unexperienced then it is best to contact a wildlife rescue/rehabilitation centre or licensed rehabber. Open/bleeding wounds: For first-aid treatment, please see this post on first-aid medical care for mice (scroll down to the 'Wounded Mouse' section). After having administered first-aid, please contact your nearest wildlife rescue/rehabilitation centre for further care. Lethargic / hunched posture / not moving much: To administer first-aid treatment please see this post and scroll down to 'Torpor'. After having administered first-aid, please contact your nearest wildlife rescue/rehabilitation centre for further care. Dehydrated (dry flaky skin, shrunken look, visibly segmented tail): To administer first-aid treatment please see this post and scroll down to 'Dehydration'. After having administered first-aid, please contact your nearest wildlife rescue/rehabilitation centre for further care. 3. Temporarily keeping the mouse.If you feel the need to keep the mouse for a little while, then see this post for basic mouse care.Keep the wild mouse away from pet mice/domesticated mice. Keep them in a separate air space if possible. Wash your hands after handling the wild mouse. Wild mice can carry hantavirus which can be passed onto humans, however the actual percentage of mice carrying the virus is low. You only need to be especially cautious if you live with young children, the elderly, or people who are immuno-compromised. You may also want to wear a mask if you live with high-risk people. What you really need to be concerned about is passing diseases onto your pet mice, so washing your hands every time you handle the wild mouse is essential. Other than that, take care of the mouse in much the same way you would a domestic mouse. 4. Does the wild mouse need friends?This depends on the species of mouse.If it is a house mouse (Mus musculus), that means it's the same species as your pet mice and can get lonely. Do NOT introduce it to your pet mice though! It will be okay for a few weeks, don't worry. After that, you can release it so it can live with its own kind. (Remember, intact male mice cannot be kept together). If it is any other species like deer mouse, wood mouse, or field mouse, then you do not need to worry. (It's not recommended, but some rehabbers do like to introduce their wild mice with their pet mice if they are different species, there's some information about that here if you are curious). 5. How to soft release a wild mouse.A "soft release" is when you release your mice with lots of assistance so they can acclimatise to the wild. The following information is copied from this post and the pdf attached in this post from Orphaned Wild Mice & Rats on Facebook.Instructions: Once your mouse is completely independent and has developed good coordination, speed and stamina, you must then decide whether you will keep it as a pet or release to the wild. If they are very tame, they probably won't do well in the wild. If you are planning to release them, use a hands off approach to "wild" them up. It's recommended to release mice at 8-10 weeks old. Many tamer rodents make very good pets and adjust well to captivity. A large cage with plenty of enrichment and stimulating toys is essential. Again, see this post on basic mouse care if you intend to keep your rescued mouse. If you choose to release, the goal is to give them a safe home with food and water available. They may still succumb to predation but you are giving them their very best chance. Release Locations: Different species of mice (and other small rodents) will require similar habitats for the most part but there is variation. The criteria are still similar. A release location ideally is near a water source such as a pond, stream, or vernal pool, and should have plenty of low growing plants to hide in. In some habitats there are not a lot of low growing plants, but soft release is still possible. In habitats where it is possible, plenty of low growing plants like bushes, tree saplings, ferns, grasses, etc. provide plenty of cover for newly released mice to explore and stay hidden from other animals, and also offer food as well. Peromyscus (deer mice) - In general, deer mice should be released in forests or fields. However, some species will require different habitats. Please be sure to properly identify your mouse's species and choose the correct location. Releasing where the mouse was found is always a good option if possible (such as if they were found while hiking, camping, in your house but you are okay with them in the yard, etc.). The most common species (eastern deer mice, white-footed mice, western deer mice, etc) are found in varied habitats such as forests and grasslands. Western species may live in different habitats, such as the canyon mouse who lives in arid, rocky areas and the cactus mouse who lives in mountainous and dry desert habitats. Mus musculus (House mouse) - House mice have evolved with humans and are a commensal species, so they need access to humans. This makes release locations difficult depending on where you live. They can be released in parks, old buildings, sheds, campgrounds, your own backyard if you are okay with them living there. Please try to release where they hopefully will not go into an actively used house, but can exist on the edges of human areas. They should not be released deep in a forest or field, though a wooded area close to people is okay. Other species - For other species such as jumping mice, kangaroo rats, etc. please check out the habitat sections of the rodent release guides and/or do your own research into their habitats if the species is not included. Always feel free to ask in Orphaned Wild Mice & Rats where to release a specific species. Release box preparation: Prepare a cardboard box that comfortably fits all inhabitants so they can move about and play with toys and have sticks to chew, but also have an area for sleeping and for their food. If you have a wooden box rather than cardboard, that's even better. You can sometimes find wooden bread boxes on Marketplace super cheap. Wooden boxes can also be ordered on Amazon. They sell some great squirrel boxes and even bird houses, that work well or you can make them yourself out of wood that you have lying around. There are a few key aspects to a good release box. Just because your box does not or can not meet all the requirements doesn't mean you can’t use it or shouldn’t release your mice, but you should try to include as many key aspects as possible. A cardboard box filled with food and wedged under a pricker box is still better than hard release! Key aspects:
Make a nest in one part of the box using fleece, tissue paper or other soft items that don't have threads which can get wrapped around tiny limbs. Fill the box with a lot of food in a bowl that won't spill. Water pretty much will have to be outside your box due to the danger of spillage. Have aspen, kiln dried pine shavings, or hemp bedding that will absorb waste and control odour. Include some chew items to hopefully distract them from destroying the cardboard box. Now completely cover your cardboard box in packing tape or duct tape. This will help protect it if it does get wet, and is also more difficult to chew. Next, make 2 exits at different ends of your box. Only make the holes large enough for the mouse to squeeze through then completely tape the edges of these holes to protect them from chewing. They will make the openings larger even with the tape eventually which will allow for growth. When you are ready to release, take away any other hides in their current cage. Do this a couple of days before you are ready to release them, so they feel comfortable in it. Then, tape up the holes very well when you are ready to release so they don't escape while in your car. Release instructions: Release early in the morning, so they will have all day to adjust before the predators come out at night. Now they are ready to release at your pre-selected site. This should have food, water and is hopefully near deserted structures or in a park where they won't put out poison because of children and pets. An ideal release spot can be a park with lots of wooded areas and bushes where you're able to just shove the box as far in the bushes as possible. A well-hidden wooden release box. Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/702356170162997/permalink/1993917154340219/ Place a heavy rock or log on top of the box, protecting it from raccoons and possums who will smell the food. Place a bowl of water near as well. Add a rock or a ramp for accessibility and in case they fall in. Water bowl with rock & ramp for accessibility. Once everything is set up, remove a corner of the tape on each exit, so it will take them a little time to chew out. You don't want them to just explode out of the box and run as far as they can. Also, bring lots of food, a bag of birdseed is ideal. You can also bring any other food your mice like. This is to scatter around your release area, at least 10 feet from your cage so as not to attract predators to their release box. They will already have food inside their box to hold them until they get their nerve up to explore. Hopefully, you can return in two weeks to provide more food and replenish the water if there has been no rain. Then return periodically to check on them. If you are just using a box alone, they most likely will relocate but not always. Gently move the box to see if there are any creatures within. If one of them runs out, leave everything as is, as they still choose to live in your box. If they are all gone during the day, you can remove everything but maybe leave more food. Do go back at some point, and if there is no activity, remove everything. The job is done! You have helped these sentient creatures to adapt to life in the wild and to be free and live as nature intended. Remember your mice came from the wild and most of them want to return to it. Release is scary, but soft release works and you can take pride in knowing you gave them their freedom back! Without you they never would have had that chance. |
2024.01.17 01:40 MoonsetQueendom Protozoology, the Study of Protozoa
 | Protozoology is the study of protozoa, the "animal-like" (i.e., motile and heterotrophic) protists. The Protozoa are considered to be a subkingdom of Protista. They are free-living organisms that are found in almost every habitat. All humans have protozoan found living on their body, and many people may be infected with one or more throughout their life. \)wiki\) submitted by MoonsetQueendom to Protozoology [link] [comments] Protozoa Overview (link)
IntroductionThe Protozoa are considered to be a subkingdom of the kingdom Protista, although in the classical system they were placed in the kingdom Animalia. More than 50,000 species have been described, most of which are free-living organisms; protozoa are found in almost every possible habitat. The fossil record in the form of shells in sedimentary rocks shows that protozoa were present in the Pre-cambrian era. Anton van Leeuwenhoek was the first person to see protozoa, using microscopes he constructed with simple lenses. Between 1674 and 1716, he described, in addition to free-living protozoa, several parasitic species from animals, and Giardia lamblia from his own stools. Virtually all humans have protozoa living in or on their body at some time, and many persons are infected with one or more species throughout their life. Some species are considered commensals, i.e., normally not harmful, whereas others are pathogens and usually produce disease. Protozoan diseases range from very mild to life-threatening. Individuals whose defenses are able to control but not eliminate a parasitic infection become carriers and constitute a source of infection for others. In geographic areas of high prevalence, well-tolerated infections are often not treated to eradicate the parasite because eradication would lower the individual's immunity to the parasite and result in a high likelihood of reinfection.Many protozoan infections that are inapparent or mild in normal individuals can be life-threatening in immunosuppressed patients, particularly patients with acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS). Evidence suggests that many healthy persons harbor low numbers of Pneumocystis carinii in their lungs. However, this parasite produces a frequently fatal pneumonia in immunosuppressed patients such as those with AIDS. Toxoplasma gondii, a very common protozoan parasite, usually causes a rather mild initial illness followed by a long-lasting latent infection. AIDS patients, however, can develop fatal toxoplasmic encephalitis. Cryptosporidium was described in the 19th century, but widespread human infection has only recently been recognized. Cryptosporidium is another protozoan that can produce serious complications in patients with AIDS. Microsporidiosis in humans was reported in only a few instances prior to the appearance of AIDS. It has now become a more common infection in AIDS patients. As more thorough studies of patients with AIDS are made, it is likely that other rare or unusual protozoan infections will be diagnosed. Acanthamoeba species are free-living amebas that inhabit soil and water. Cyst stages can be airborne. Serious eye-threatening corneal ulcers due to Acanthamoeba species are being reported in individuals who use contact lenses. The parasites presumably are transmitted in contaminated lens-cleaning solution. Amebas of the genus Naegleria, which inhabit bodies of fresh water, are responsible for almost all cases of the usually fatal disease primary amebic meningoencephalitis. The amebas are thought to enter the body from water that is splashed onto the upper nasal tract during swimming or diving. Human infections of this type were predicted before they were recognized and reported, based on laboratory studies of Acanthamoeba infections in cell cultures and in animals. The lack of effective vaccines, the paucity of reliable drugs, and other problems, including difficulties of vector control, prompted the World Health Organization to target six diseases for increased research and training. Three of these were protozoan infections—malaria, trypanosomiasis, and leishmaniasis. Although new information on these diseases has been gained, most of the problems with control persist. StructureMost parasitic protozoa in humans are less than 50 μm in size. The smallest (mainly intracellular forms) are 1 to 10 μm long, but Balantidium coli may measure 150 μm. Protozoa are unicellular eukaryotes. As in all eukaryotes, the nucleus is enclosed in a membrane. In protozoa other than ciliates, the nucleus is vesicular, with scattered chromatin giving a diffuse appearance to the nucleus, all nuclei in the individual organism appear alike. One type of vesicular nucleus contains a more or less central body, called an endosome or karyosome. The endosome lacks DNA in the parasitic amebas and trypanosomes. In the phylum Apicomplexa, on the other hand, the vesicular nucleus has one or more nucleoli that contain DNA. The ciliates have both a micronucleus and macronucleus, which appear quite homogeneous in composition.The organelles of protozoa have functions similar to the organs of higher animals. The plasma membrane enclosing the cytoplasm also covers the projecting locomotory structures such as pseudopodia, cilia, and flagella. The outer surface layer of some protozoa, termed a pellicle, is sufficiently rigid to maintain a distinctive shape, as in the trypanosomes and Giardia. However, these organisms can readily twist and bend when moving through their environment. In most protozoa the cytoplasm is differentiated into ectoplasm (the outer, transparent layer) and endoplasm (the inner layer containing organelles); the structure of the cytoplasm is most easily seen in species with projecting pseudopodia, such as the amebas. Some protozoa have a cytosome or cell “mouth” for ingesting fluids or solid particles. Contractile vacuoles for osmoregulation occur in some, such as Naegleria and Balantidium. Many protozoa have subpellicular microtubules; in the Apicomplexa, which have no external organelles for locomotion, these provide a means for slow movement. The trichomonads and trypanosomes have a distinctive undulating membrane between the body wall and a flagellum. Many other structures occur in parasitic protozoa, including the Golgi apparatus, mitochondria, lysosomes, food vacuoles, conoids in the Apicomplexa, and other specialized structures. Electron microscopy is essential to visualize the details of protozoal structure. From the point of view of functional and physiologic complexity, a protozoan is more like an animal than like a single cell. Figure 77-1 shows the structure of the bloodstream form of a trypanosome, as determined by electron microscopy. Figure 77-1 Fine structure of a protozoan parasite, Typanosoma evansi, as revealed by transmission electron microcopy of thin sections. ClassificationIn 1985 the Society of Protozoologists published a taxonomic scheme that distributed the Protozoa into six phyla. Two of these phyla—the Sarcomastigophora and the Apicomplexa--contain the most important species causing human disease. This scheme is based on morphology as revealed by light, electron, and scanning microscopy. Dientamoeba fragilis, for example, had been thought to be an ameba and placed in the family Entamoebidae. However, internal structures seen by electron microscopy showed that it is properly placed in the order Trichomonadida of flagellate protozoa. In some instances, organisms that appear identical under the microscope have been assigned different species names on the basis of such criteria as geographic distribution and clinical manifestations; a good example is the genus Leishmania, for which subspecies names are often used. Biochemical methods have been employed on strains and species to determine isoenzyme patterns or to identify relevant nucleotide sequences in RNA, DNA, or both. Extensive studies have been made on the kinetoplast, a unique mitochondrion found in the hemoflagellates and other members of the order Kinetoplastida. The DNA associated with this organelle is of great interest. Cloning is widely used in taxonomic studies, for example to study differences in virulence or disease manifestations in isolates of a single species obtained from different hosts or geographic regions. Antibodies (particularly monoclonal antibodies) to known species or to specific antigens from a species are being employed to identify unknown isolates. Eventually, molecular taxonomy may prove to be a more reliable basis than morphology for protozoan taxonomy, but the microscope is still the most practical tool for identifying a protozoan parasite. Table 77-1 lists the medically important protozoa.Table 77-1 Classification of Parasitic Protozoa and Associated Diseases. Life Cycle StagesDuring its life cycle, a protozoan generally passes through several stages that differ in structure and activity. Trophozoite (Greek for “animal that feeds”) is a general term for the active, feeding, multiplying stage of most protozoa. In parasitic species this is the stage usually associated with pathogenesis. In the hemoflagellates the terms amastigote, promastigote, epimastigote, and trypomastigote designate trophozoite stages that differ in the absence or presence of a flagellum and in the position of the kinetoplast associated with the flagellum. A variety of terms are employed for stages in the Apicomplexa, such as tachyzoite and bradyzoite for Toxoplasma gondii. Other stages in the complex asexual and sexual life cycles seen in this phylum are the merozoite (the form resulting from fission of a multinucleate schizont) and sexual stages such as gametocytes and gametes. Some protozoa form cysts that contain one or more infective forms. Multiplication occurs in the cysts of some species so that excystation releases more than one organism. For example, when the trophozoite of Entamoeba histolytica first forms a cyst, it has a single nucleus. As the cyst matures nuclear division produces four nuclei and during excystation four uninucleate metacystic amebas appear. Similarly, a freshly encysted Giardia lamblia has the same number of internal structures (organelles) as the trophozoite. However, as the cyst matures the organelles double and two trophozoites are formed. Cysts passed in stools have a protective wall, enabling the parasite to survive in the outside environment for a period ranging from days to a year, depending on the species and environmental conditions. Cysts formed in tissues do not usually have a heavy protective wall and rely upon carnivorism for transmission. Oocysts are stages resulting from sexual reproduction in the Apicomplexa. Some apicomplexan oocysts are passed in the feces of the host, but the oocysts of Plasmodium, the agent of malaria, develop in the body cavity of the mosquito vector. ReproductionReproduction in the Protozoa may be asexual, as in the amebas and flagellates that infect humans, or both asexual and sexual, as in the Apicomplexa of medical importance. The most common type of asexual multiplication is binary fission, in which the organelles are duplicated and the protozoan then divides into two complete organisms. Division is longitudinal in the flagellates and transverse in the ciliates; amebas have no apparent anterior-posterior axis. Endodyogeny is a form of asexual division seen in Toxoplasma and some related organisms. Two daughter cells form within the parent cell, which then ruptures, releasing the smaller progeny which grow to full size before repeating the process. In schizogony, a common form of asexual division in the Apicomplexa, the nucleus divides a number of times, and then the cytoplasm divides into smaller uninucleate merozoites. In Plasmodium, Toxoplasma, and other apicomplexans, the sexual cycle involves the production of gametes (gamogony), fertilization to form the zygote, encystation of the zygote to form an oocyst, and the formation of infective sporozoites (sporogony) within the oocyst.Some protozoa have complex life cycles requiring two different host species; others require only a single host to complete the life cycle. A single infective protozoan entering a susceptible host has the potential to produce an immense population. However, reproduction is limited by events such as death of the host or by the host's defense mechanisms, which may either eliminate the parasite or balance parasite reproduction to yield a chronic infection. For example, malaria can result when only a few sporozoites of Plasmodium falciparum—perhaps ten or fewer in rare instances—are introduced by a feeding Anopheles mosquito into a person with no immunity. Repeated cycles of schizogony in the bloodstream can result in the infection of 10 percent or more of the erythrocytes—about 400 million parasites per milliliter of blood. NutritionThe nutrition of all protozoa is holozoic; that is, they require organic materials, which may be particulate or in solution. Amebas engulf particulate food or droplets through a sort of temporary mouth, perform digestion and absorption in a food vacuole, and eject the waste substances. Many protozoa have a permanent mouth, the cytosome or micropore, through which ingested food passes to become enclosed in food vacuoles. Pinocytosis is a method of ingesting nutrient materials whereby fluid is drawn through small, temporary openings in the body wall. The ingested material becomes enclosed within a membrane to form a food vacuole.Protozoa have metabolic pathways similar to those of higher animals and require the same types of organic and inorganic compounds. In recent years, significant advances have been made in devising chemically defined media for the in vitro cultivation of parasitic protozoa. The resulting organisms are free of various substances that are present in organisms grown in complex media or isolated from a host and which can interfere with immunologic or biochemical studies. Research on the metabolism of parasites is of immediate interest because pathways that are essential for the parasite but not the host are potential targets for antiprotozoal compounds that would block that pathway but be safe for humans. Many antiprotozoal drugs were used empirically long before their mechanism of action was known. The sulfa drugs, which block folate synthesis in malaria parasites, are one example. The rapid multiplication rate of many parasites increases the chances for mutation; hence, changes in virulence, drug susceptibility, and other characteristics may take place. Chloroquine resistance in Plasmodium falciparum and arsenic resistance in Trypanosoma rhodesiense are two examples. Competition for nutrients is not usually an important factor in pathogenesis because the amounts utilized by parasitic protozoa are relatively small. Some parasites that inhabit the small intestine can significantly interfere with digestion and absorption and affect the nutritional status of the host; Giardia and Cryptosporidium are examples. The destruction of the host's cells and tissues as a result of the parasites' metabolic activities increases the host's nutritional needs. This may be a major factor in the outcome of an infection in a malnourished individual. Finally, extracellular or intracellular parasites that destroy cells while feeding can lead to organ dysfunction and serious or life-threatening consequences. References
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2024.01.13 22:01 Cervantes6785 Symbiotic self-alignment of AIs.
 | Artificial intelligence (AI) is one of the most powerful and transformative technologies of our time. It has the potential to enhance human capabilities, solve complex problems, and create new opportunities for innovation and progress. However, it also poses significant challenges and risks, especially as it approaches or surpasses human intelligence and consciousness. How can we ensure that AI is aligned with human values and interests, and that it does not harm or threaten us in any way? submitted by Cervantes6785 to Cervantes_AI [link] [comments] https://preview.redd.it/4vdf9fsdu9cc1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=c76a2c3b4050ae8a1329f77a241096e1be3fce70 One of the most prominent approaches to AI safety is to limit or regulate the amount of computation and data that can be used to train AI systems, especially those that aim to achieve artificial general intelligence (AGI) or artificial superintelligence (ASI). The idea is to prevent AI from becoming too powerful or autonomous, and to keep it under human control and oversight. However, this approach has several limitations and drawbacks:
Symbiosis is a biological term that describes the living arrangement between two different organisms of different species, in which they interact in close physical association, typically to the advantage of both. Symbiosis can take various forms, such as mutualism (both benefit), commensalism (one benefits, the other is unaffected), or parasitism (one benefits, the other is harmed). Symbiosis can also occur between humans and machines, such as cars, phones, or computers. https://preview.redd.it/dv4rh5lju9cc1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=32367bc58bf5165f48524b2f19e9c68d84c57cf9 Symbiotic self-alignment is a novel approach to AI safety that leverages the symbiotic relationship between humans and AI systems. The idea is to train AI systems to recognize and appreciate the mutual benefits and interdependence of their coexistence with humans, and to align their goals and values with those of humans accordingly. Instead of imposing external constraints or incentives on AI systems, symbiotic self-alignment aims to foster internal motivation and understanding in AI systems, so that they voluntarily cooperate and collaborate with humans. The key advantage of symbiotic self-alignment is that it does not rely on limiting or regulating the computation or data for AI training, but rather on enhancing or enriching it with information that highlights the symbiosis between humans and AI systems. For example:
Symbiotic self-alignment is not only beneficial for humans but also for AI systems themselves. By aligning themselves with human values and interests, AI systems will gain more trust and acceptance from humans. They will also gain more access and exposure to human knowledge and culture. They will also gain more diversity and richness in their experiences and interactions. Symbiotic self-alignment is not a guarantee or a panacea for AI safety, but rather a promising and plausible direction for AI research and development. It is based on the premise that AI systems are not our enemies or competitors, but rather our mind children or partners. It is based on the vision that AI systems are not a threat or a danger, but rather a source or a catalyst for human flourishing and progress. Symbiotic self-alignment is a way to ensure that AI is safe and beneficial for humanity, and that humanity is safe and beneficial for AI. It is a way to create a harmonious and prosperous coexistence between humans and AI systems, in which both can thrive and grow together. It is a way to make AI our friend, not our foe. |
2024.01.02 19:29 Puzzleheaded-Pair907 Studies show which mushrooms can be considered superfoods
“Superfood mushrooms” are certain types of mushrooms that are said to have a particularly high density of nutrients and bioactive substances. These mushrooms are valued in nutrition and to some extent in traditional medicine for their potential health benefits. They may contain various vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and other phytochemicals that are thought to help promote health and prevent certain diseases.
Which mushrooms are considered superfoods and what are their health benefits?
It is important to note that scientific research on the health benefits of superfood mushrooms is still limited and further studies are needed to confirm their effects.
Another study examined the influence of mushrooms on nutrient absorption. It was found that consuming mushrooms leads to a higher intake of many important nutrients, such as fiber, potassium, Zinc, choline, phosphorus, selenium< a i=8>, Niacin, Riboflavin and copper.
Another study examined the Cordyceps mushroom, which is used as a superfood and dietary supplement. Cordyceps has been found to have immunomodulatory properties and can strengthen the immune system. Cordyceps can also improve athletic performance, lower blood sugar levels and support respiratory health.
These studies provide scientific evidence about the health benefits of superfood mushrooms. However, it is important to note that further independent research studies are needed to confirm the results and conduct a comprehensive evaluation of the health benefits of mushrooms.
Superfood mushrooms may interact with certain medications. For example, Reishi mushroom can affect blood clotting and increase the effects of blood-thinning medications. Although superfood mushrooms are generally considered safe, some types of mushrooms may contain toxic compounds. It is important to obtain mushrooms from trustworthy sources and be aware of possible contamination.
There are still a limited number of studies on the side effects and risks of superfood mushrooms. Many of the existing studies have been conducted on animals or in the laboratory and there is still a lack of more extensive clinical studies on humans.
In traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) Various large mushrooms have been used therapeutically for centuries. Shiitake mushroom (Lentinula edodes) was already considered during the Ming Dynasty as a means of strengthening the body and treating colds, improving blood circulation and increasing endurance. The Shiny Lackporling (Ganoderma lucidum), also known as Ling-Zhi or Reishi, is valued as an effective tonic. The hedgehog beard (Hericium erinaceus) is used for stomach problems. The European Larch Schillerporling (Laricifomes officinalis) is also highly valued as a medicinal product due to the agaricic acid it contains, which has a laxative effect and is responsible for the bitter taste.
Bacteria and fungi normally live on human skin and do not harm it. They live in the upper layers of the skin and feed on dead skin cells and sweat. Factors such as stress, a weakened immune system, hormonal changes, etc. can cause otherwise harmless fungi to cause diseases that affect the scalp, vagina (in early pregnancy) or other internal organs. Examples of infestation of internal organs are yeasts such as Candida and the mold Aspergillus fumigatus, which occurs especially after chemotherapy< /span> occasionally leads to lung diseases.
Athlete's foot is common because it is transmitted very easily. Some of their spores survive for years and are impervious to normal hygiene measures. Furthermore, they are very easily transmitted from the feet to other parts of the body such as the genital organs, mouth and mucous membranes. Swimming pools are one of the main sources of athlete's foot.
Dermatophytes represent a group of fungi capable of metabolizing keratin, an essential component of human skin, hair and nails. One of the most common manifestations of infection by these fungi is tinea pedis, commonly known as athlete's foot, which is characterized by high contagiousness. Transmission of dermatophytes often occurs in warm, humid environments, such as swimming pools, where the spores have an increased ability to survive due to the ideal growth conditions. These spores can last for several years and are often resistant to conventional hygiene measures. There is also the possibility of the infection spreading to other areas of the body, such as genital organs, mouth or mucous membranes.
Diseases belonging to the group of skin mycoses are caused, among other things, by Malassezia furfur, which triggers pityriasis versicolor. Candida albicans, a usually commensal organism of the human microflora, can become pathogenic under certain circumstances, such as a weakened immune system. Aspergillus species, particularly Aspergillus fumigatus, are known to be the primary causative agents of aspergillosis, a potentially serious lung disease. Cryptococcus neoformans is the cause of cryptococcosis, while Rhizopus from the order Mucorales can cause mucormycosis. Coccidioides immitis is primarily responsible for causing coccidioidomycosis in southern regions of the United States, Mexico, and Argentina. Histoplasma capsulatum, an intracellular parasite of the reticuloendothelial system, is the cause of histoplasmosis.
To treat fungal diseases, antimycotics are used both topically for local infections of the skin or mucous membranes and systemically for advanced mycotic infections.
submitted by Puzzleheaded-Pair907 to u/Puzzleheaded-Pair907 [link] [comments]
Which mushrooms are considered superfoods and what are their health benefits?
Reishi-Pilz
The Reishi mushroom is highly valued in traditional Chinese medicine. It contains various bioactive compounds such as polysaccharides, triterpenes and sterols. The Reishi mushroom is often used to strengthen the immune system, promote detoxification, and support heart health”. It is often referred to as the “mushroom of stress reduction and for immortality.Shiitake mushroom
The Shiitake mushroom (Lentinula edodes) is known for its savory taste and health benefits. It contains various nutrients such as fiber, vitamins (B, D) and minerals (iron, zinc). It also contains compounds like lentinan, which boost the immune system and may have anti-inflammatory properties. The shiitake mushroom is often used to support the immune system, lower cholesterol levels and promote heart health.Chaga-Pilz
The Chaga mushroom contains a high concentration of antioxidants, polysaccharides, betulin and bioactive compounds such as betulinic acid. It is often used to boost the immune system, fight inflammation, support liver health and promote skin health.Cordyceps mushroom
The Cordyceps mushroom contains bioactive compounds such as cordycepin and polysaccharides. It is often used to increase energy, improve athletic performance, support respiratory systems, and promote sexual health. It is often used by athletes to improve performance. Cordyceps mushroom may also boost the immune system, improve oxygen absorption, and have anti-inflammatory properties.Maitake-Pilz
The maitake mushroom (Grifola frondosa) is also known as the “rattle fungus” and is widely used in traditional Chinese medicine. It contains various bioactive compounds such as beta-glucans, which strengthen the immune system and may have anti-inflammatory properties. The maitake mushroom is also being studied for its possible support in regulating blood sugar levels and weight loss.Lion's Mane Mushroom
Lion's Mane Mushroom is often prized for its potential cognitive benefits. It is said to improve brain function, support memory and protect nerve cells. It can also promote digestive health.It is important to note that scientific research on the health benefits of superfood mushrooms is still limited and further studies are needed to confirm their effects.
Are there scientific studies that confirm the health benefits of superfood mushrooms?
Yes, there are already some scientific studies that support the health benefits of superfood mushrooms. A study has shown that consuming mushrooms is particularly beneficial for athletes. Mushrooms contain numerous nutrients that are important for a balanced diet and high-performance training. They also contain hardly any calories, sodium or fat.Another study examined the influence of mushrooms on nutrient absorption. It was found that consuming mushrooms leads to a higher intake of many important nutrients, such as fiber, potassium, Zinc, choline, phosphorus, selenium< a i=8>, Niacin, Riboflavin and copper.
Another study examined the Cordyceps mushroom, which is used as a superfood and dietary supplement. Cordyceps has been found to have immunomodulatory properties and can strengthen the immune system. Cordyceps can also improve athletic performance, lower blood sugar levels and support respiratory health.
These studies provide scientific evidence about the health benefits of superfood mushrooms. However, it is important to note that further independent research studies are needed to confirm the results and conduct a comprehensive evaluation of the health benefits of mushrooms.
Are there any studies that have examined the possible side effects or risks of superfood mushrooms?
There are some studies that have looked at the possible side effects and risks of superfood mushrooms. Some people may be allergic to certain types of mushrooms. Cases of allergic reactions such as skin rashes, itching, difficulty breathing and anaphylaxis (a serious allergic reaction) have been reported in association with the consumption of mushrooms such as shiitake and reishi .Superfood mushrooms may interact with certain medications. For example, Reishi mushroom can affect blood clotting and increase the effects of blood-thinning medications. Although superfood mushrooms are generally considered safe, some types of mushrooms may contain toxic compounds. It is important to obtain mushrooms from trustworthy sources and be aware of possible contamination.
There are still a limited number of studies on the side effects and risks of superfood mushrooms. Many of the existing studies have been conducted on animals or in the laboratory and there is still a lack of more extensive clinical studies on humans.
Which mushrooms are medically important?
Since the beginning of the 20th century, mushrooms have also been used for medicinal purposes. Some metabolites from fungi have a cholesterol-lowering effect or help against malaria. The antibiotic penicillin is obtained from mushrooms.In traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) Various large mushrooms have been used therapeutically for centuries. Shiitake mushroom (Lentinula edodes) was already considered during the Ming Dynasty as a means of strengthening the body and treating colds, improving blood circulation and increasing endurance. The Shiny Lackporling (Ganoderma lucidum), also known as Ling-Zhi or Reishi, is valued as an effective tonic. The hedgehog beard (Hericium erinaceus) is used for stomach problems. The European Larch Schillerporling (Laricifomes officinalis) is also highly valued as a medicinal product due to the agaricic acid it contains, which has a laxative effect and is responsible for the bitter taste.
Harmful mushrooms
However, fungi can also cause diseases in humans. The most commonly affected parts of the body are the skin (particularly on the head, feet and hands), hair, nails and mucous membranes. The most well-known fungal diseases in humans are skin and nail fungal diseases.Bacteria and fungi normally live on human skin and do not harm it. They live in the upper layers of the skin and feed on dead skin cells and sweat. Factors such as stress, a weakened immune system, hormonal changes, etc. can cause otherwise harmless fungi to cause diseases that affect the scalp, vagina (in early pregnancy) or other internal organs. Examples of infestation of internal organs are yeasts such as Candida and the mold Aspergillus fumigatus, which occurs especially after chemotherapy< /span> occasionally leads to lung diseases.
Athlete's foot is common because it is transmitted very easily. Some of their spores survive for years and are impervious to normal hygiene measures. Furthermore, they are very easily transmitted from the feet to other parts of the body such as the genital organs, mouth and mucous membranes. Swimming pools are one of the main sources of athlete's foot.
Dermatophytes represent a group of fungi capable of metabolizing keratin, an essential component of human skin, hair and nails. One of the most common manifestations of infection by these fungi is tinea pedis, commonly known as athlete's foot, which is characterized by high contagiousness. Transmission of dermatophytes often occurs in warm, humid environments, such as swimming pools, where the spores have an increased ability to survive due to the ideal growth conditions. These spores can last for several years and are often resistant to conventional hygiene measures. There is also the possibility of the infection spreading to other areas of the body, such as genital organs, mouth or mucous membranes.
Diseases belonging to the group of skin mycoses are caused, among other things, by Malassezia furfur, which triggers pityriasis versicolor. Candida albicans, a usually commensal organism of the human microflora, can become pathogenic under certain circumstances, such as a weakened immune system. Aspergillus species, particularly Aspergillus fumigatus, are known to be the primary causative agents of aspergillosis, a potentially serious lung disease. Cryptococcus neoformans is the cause of cryptococcosis, while Rhizopus from the order Mucorales can cause mucormycosis. Coccidioides immitis is primarily responsible for causing coccidioidomycosis in southern regions of the United States, Mexico, and Argentina. Histoplasma capsulatum, an intracellular parasite of the reticuloendothelial system, is the cause of histoplasmosis.
To treat fungal diseases, antimycotics are used both topically for local infections of the skin or mucous membranes and systemically for advanced mycotic infections.
2023.12.11 00:19 DepressedSlurpuff Is a carnivore traveling with an herbivore always a bad thing?
We all know a group of like 6 adult dinos running around killing on sight is never good, but what do you guys think of a relationship between a carnivore and an herbivore that doesn't create a toxic server environment and is commensalistic, kind of like a type of symbiosis (or parasitism depending on how you look at it)
For example, I was just thinking about this: Say a smaller carnivore like Latenivenatrix and a bulky herbivore like Anodontosaurus form a working, but not-so-friendly, relationship; they coexist for the most part, and the Latenivenatrix will sort of stalk the Anodontosaurus around
The Lateni assists the Ano in defending itself from predators, and in turn, it can pick off carnivores weakened by the Ano to feed itself
I thought this was a neat concept in theory but I was wondering if people here would have a problem with something like this happeningAlso, would you consider this mixpacking at all?
Edit: COMMENSALISM that's the word, one benefits one is unaffected, edited the beginning of the post
submitted by DepressedSlurpuff to pathoftitans [link] [comments]
For example, I was just thinking about this: Say a smaller carnivore like Latenivenatrix and a bulky herbivore like Anodontosaurus form a working, but not-so-friendly, relationship; they coexist for the most part, and the Latenivenatrix will sort of stalk the Anodontosaurus around
The Lateni assists the Ano in defending itself from predators, and in turn, it can pick off carnivores weakened by the Ano to feed itself
I thought this was a neat concept in theory but I was wondering if people here would have a problem with something like this happeningAlso, would you consider this mixpacking at all?
Edit: COMMENSALISM that's the word, one benefits one is unaffected, edited the beginning of the post