Ramsey aikman

*Discussion*

2024.02.25 19:33 Dez_Caught_It8 *Discussion*

*Discussion”
How do you think it would’ve turned out if we drafted Jalen Ramsey in 2016 instead of Ezekiel Elliot? Personally I was banging the table for Ramsey, we really needed help in the secondary at the time. Pretty much our whole defense honestly.
I know Zeke and Dak were “best buds” and Zeke had a great statistical year his rookie year, along with a couple seasons afterwards but never really had that burst or tenacity he had his rookie season. I also believe along with most people that our O-Line was so dominant at the time, that you could’ve picked just about any talented RB & he would have had major success. Not saying over 1,300-1,400 yards, but success.
I think the future HOF Jalen Ramsey would’ve brought that “toughness/swagger” to our defense, not just his talented skill set. I also think Jerry Jones would’ve payed Ramsey the money he wanted to stay also if he stayed healthy. It also seemed like Ramsey high profile personality would’ve been perfect with the Cowboys glamour and media presence.
All in all idk if we would’ve won multiple Super Bowls with Ramsey, or even one. But I think he would’ve gave us a much better shot at the Lombardi than Zeke did. Others thoughts?
I also have been saying for years that one of Jerry Jones biggest mistakes that hardly anyone brings up was passing on Randy Moss in the draft. He definitely would’ve helped revitalize Troy Aikman career, one of the best 1-2 punches in history with Michael Irvin and Randy Moss. And who knows, maybe Irvin wouldn’t have been running that route when he broke his route or perhaps that play wouldn’t even have been called. Just a big “what if” and speculation, but fun to think about.
submitted by Dez_Caught_It8 to cowboys [link] [comments]


2023.08.27 03:34 y_wont_my_line_block Found my 2019 NFL QB Draft Analysis

I was recently going through my files on an old computer. and found a draft of a giant post I made after I did some very-amatuerish data science on the 2019 crop of QBs. I thought it was terrible at the time. But then it turned out I had successfully predicted Gardner Minshew, and I didn't even know it. So, for discussion, the contents of the original post.

2019 NFL Draft QB Analysis

First, I just want to say. I am no expert. I wasn't even especially rigorous. This is just fun and probably not a very good way to predict anything. However, I think I manage to get some interesting results. Including that this model really just fell in love with Gardner Minshew.
For those of you unfamiliar with linear regression, you might want to watch this Khan Academy video to get an idea of how I did this.
I wanted to build a model that could take a quarterbacks college stats and try to predict what kind of statistical output they would have in the pros. As an added bonus, once I projected them in the pros, I tried to figure out what pro quarterbacks had similar numbers to their projections.
The first thing I did was decide what statistics I wanted to use to make my model. I decided to not use any volume stats and only use efficiency stats. I did not want to favor good QBs that had been in the NFL a long time or bad ones that managed to stick around. And because this draft features Kyler Murray, you bet I wanted to try to throw in some rushing statistics too.
I decided to build a model using a QB college stats: * Games played in college * Completion % * TD% * INT% * Yards / Attempt * Yards / Game * Rushing Yards / Attempt * Rush Yards / Game * Rush Attempts / Game
To predict these stats in the NFL: * Completion % * TD% * INT% * Yards / Attempt * Yards / Game * Rushing Yards / Attempt * Rush Yards / Game * Rush Attempts / Game
Then I went to acquire both professional and college statistics on Quarterbacks. Sports reference custom leader boards for college football only went to 2000, so anyone who entered the NFL before then was not used to build the model. So far as active quarterbacks, it only excludes Tom Brady and Drew Brees who are such freaks they probably shouldn't be included anyway. I also did not want to include any quarterbacks who were rookies last year. For instance, I did not think Josh Rosen's numbers last really represent the kind of Pro quarterback he will eventually become.
Then I took all of the quarterbacks from this upcoming draft, and fed their career stats through the model I had created. This is a projection of what their pro stats might look like based upon what they were able to produce in college. I sorted by TD% because scoring points is how you win, and you play to win the game.

Using Career Stats

Stat Projections
Player Cmp% TD% INT% Yds/Att Yds/Game Rush Yds/Att Rush Yds/Game Rush Att/Game
Kyler Murray 58.76 4.55 3.28 7.1 186.54 5.53 23.53 4.34
Ryan Finley 61.69 3.86 3.05 6.96 201.58 3.56 7.12 1.94
Drew Lock 57.92 3.82 3.35 6.59 179.31 2.95 7.81 1.99
Tyree Jackson 58.08 3.81 2.91 6.52 178.49 3.8 11.29 2.55
Gardner Minshew 61.15 3.8 2.63 6.85 212.9 2.73 4.47 1.63
Dwayne Haskins 59.62 3.74 2.67 6.75 200.78 3.71 12.56 3.
Will Grier 58.03 3.67 3.48 6.55 182.33 3.19 8.78 2.37
Jake Browning 60.01 3.62 3.41 6.85 173.99 3.48 8.69 2.17
Daniel Jones 59.69 3.54 2.72 6.65 161.9 4.89 14.38 2.94
Jordan Ta'amu 59.64 3.52 3.12 6.52 175.78 4.39 12.7 2.91
Trace McSorley 58.15 3.51 2.94 6.54 151.26 4.65 16.68 3.27
Clayton Thorson 59.86 3.44 3.22 6.71 161.23 3.72 7.48 1.92
Brett Rypien 60.3 3.42 3.21 6.71 180.2 2.67 4.8 1.61
Jarrett Stidham 60.11 3.25 2.68 6.61 172.45 3.65 10.3 2.54
Kyle Shurmur 57.85 2.87 3.01 6.31 144.52 1.67 1.57 1.1
You'll notice that Kyler Murray shows up at the top with a 4.55% Touchdown percentage. That actually is not amazing and would have put him about around 20th in 2018. Just below Nick Mullens and above Dak Prescott. I think just kind of shows how many quarterbacks can put up great numbers in college and then totally flop in the NFL. I suspect any model that looks at the numbers is just going to learn that basically all quarterbacks suck.
Then after I had projected their NFL stats, I compared their projections to NFL quarterbacks who played after the year 1990. This does not have the same restrictions as the QBs used to build the model because I wasn't using their college stats in any way. Disclaimer, if you see someone and you think aren't they from the 80s? (Such as Jim McMahon who does appear here), you're looking at the post-1990 version of them.
For people who are nerds: To make these comparisons, I normalized everyone's stats and took the 2-norm to figure distances.
QB Comparisons
QB Cmp 1 Cmp 2 Cmp 3 Cmp 4 Cmp 5
Kyler Murray Randall Cunningham Steve McNair Doug Flutie Donovan McNabb David Garrard
Ryan Finley Matt Hasselbeck Jon Kitna Troy Aikman* Case Keenum Trevor Siemian
Drew Lock Boomer Esiason Byron Leftwich Mark Sanchez Brandon Weeden Kevin Kolb
Tyree Jackson Matt Cassel Josh McCown Byron Leftwich Jeff Hostetler Mark Brunell
Gardner Minshew Troy Aikman* Kyle Orton Joe Flacco Trevor Siemian Case Keenum
Dwayne Haskins Josh McCown Jason Campbell Rich Gannon John Elway* Trevor Siemian
Will Grier Mark Sanchez Matt Cassel Byron Leftwich Brandon Weeden Boomer Esiason
Jake Browning Kevin Kolb Matt Hasselbeck Matt Cassel Josh McCown Brandon Weeden
Daniel Jones Jim Harbaugh Jason Campbell Mark Brunell Josh McCown Jeff Hostetler
Jordan Ta'amu Josh McCown Jim Harbaugh Colt McCoy Matt Cassel Jason Campbell
Trace McSorley Jim Harbaugh David Carr Christian Ponder Jeff Hostetler Shaun King
Clayton Thorson Kevin Kolb Matt Cassel Trent Edwards Matt Hasselbeck Brandon Weeden
Brett Rypien Chad Henne Austin Davis Brad Johnson Brandon Weeden Matt Hasselbeck
Jarrett Stidham Matt Cassel Josh McCown Colt McCoy Byron Leftwich Trent Edwards
Kyle Shurmur Chris Simms Matt Leinart Bernie Kosar Ken O'Brien Steve Bono
As a bonus, I ran all of the draft Qbs through the model using only their 2018. This produced something that was maybe a bit optimistic. It absolutely loved Gardner Minshew. Many of you probably do not know Gardner Minshew because he is at the bottom of most draft boards. He's still above Jordan Ta'amu who still sucked with maybe the 2nd best WR corp in college football. However, Minshew had a monster senior season after a few years of being absolutely pedestrian. He would probably be a lot higher on draft boards, but if you look at his tape you'll notice his throwing mechanics are actually god awful and he has a wobbly wet noodle arm. That combined with he got the luxury of playing in an Air Raid offense his last year in college.

Using 2018 Season Stats

Stat Projections
Player Cmp% TD% INT% Yds/Att Yds/Game Rush Yds/Att Rush Yds/Game Rush Att/Game
Kyler Murray 57.76 4.53 2.97 6.85 193.1 5.26 25.16 4.57
Gardner Minshew 62.75 4.33 2.43 7.05 255.92 3.41 6.11 1.99
Drew Lock 59.46 3.99 2.54 6.63 216.2 3.46 9.65 2.52
Ryan Finley 60.91 3.8 3.04 6.8 209.69 2.85 4.12 1.68
Dwayne Haskins 59.11 3.8 2.81 6.59 212.04 3.35 10. 2.68
Tyree Jackson 56.03 3.72 3.05 6.25 177.12 3.04 9.01 2.39
Daniel Jones 58.27 3.52 2.53 6.4 173.24 4.39 13.26 2.99
Jordan Ta'amu 59.56 3.5 3.02 6.42 180.5 4.3 11.85 2.81
Jake Browning 60.34 3.47 3.08 6.65 177.61 3.95 8.78 2.38
Trace McSorley 56.34 3.23 2.03 6.08 136.81 4.83 19.35 3.68
Brett Rypien 59.51 3.21 2.65 6.41 186.28 3.41 8.17 2.43
Will Grier 56.89 3.09 3.33 6.15 172.49 2.01 4.28 1.88
Clayton Thorson 58.92 2.93 3.2 6.34 153.59 2.9 2.48 1.48
Kyle Shurmur 58.61 2.9 2.33 6.24 173.78 1.78 2.69 1.51
Jarrett Stidham 58.85 2.89 2.17 6.17 172.84 2.95 6.85 2.19
QB Comparisons
QB Cmp 1 Cmp 2 Cmp 3 Cmp 4 Cmp 5
Kyler Murray Randall Cunningham Steve McNair Doug Flutie Donovan McNabb David Garrard
Gardner Minshew Matthew Stafford Joe Montana* Derek Carr Warren Moon* Brett Favre*
Drew Lock Trevor Siemian Case Keenum Nick Foles Joe Montana* Jon Kitna
Ryan Finley Troy Aikman* Kyle Orton Trevor Siemian Jon Kitna Matt Hasselbeck
Dwayne Haskins Trevor Siemian Jon Kitna Byron Leftwich Sam Darnold Case Keenum
Tyree Jackson Byron Leftwich Tony Banks Blaine Gabbert Matt Cassel Mark Sanchez
Daniel Jones Jim Harbaugh Jason Campbell Josh McCown Mark Brunell Matt Cassel
Jordan Ta'amu Josh McCown Matt Cassel Jason Campbell Colt McCoy David Carr
Jake Browning Josh McCown Matt Cassel Trent Edwards Tim Couch Kevin Kolb
Trace McSorley Johnny Manziel Shaun King Jim Harbaugh Kordell Stewart David Carr
Brett Rypien Byron Leftwich Brandon Weeden Chad Henne Matt Cassel Brock Osweiler
Will Grier Joey Harrington Kerry Collins Patrick Ramsey Chad Henne A.J. Feeley
Clayton Thorson Brock Osweiler Bernie Kosar Ken O'Brien Jim McMahon Chad Henne
Kyle Shurmur Neil O'Donnell Bernie Kosar Ken O'Brien Brock Osweiler Chad Henne
Jarrett Stidham Brock Osweiler Byron Leftwich Chad Henne Brandon Weeden Ken O'Brien
Overall, I would say you should not make your draft grades based upon stats. You would probably draft Gardner Minshew hoping to get Matthew Stafford but then realize in camp that Minshew has the arm of 2015 playoffs Peyton Manning but actually still worse. And for what it's worth, I don't like Daniel Jones so my code must have somehow picked that up, because it kind of hates Daniel Jones too.
submitted by y_wont_my_line_block to NFLDIscussion [link] [comments]


2022.05.26 16:26 chadowan The Receiver Assist Score (OC)

Anytime a receiver is getting closer to entering the Hall of Fame, you always hear the argument, "He just had great QBs, he would've been average with an average QB" or "His numbers weren't great but he had bad QBs." These argument always drive me nuts because it's really hard to prove them one way or the other. I'm gonna try to do that here. I created a score based on Pro Football Reference's Approximate Value where for every Hall of Fame WR (since the merger) I took the receiver's AV per game and the AV per game for all of their QBs for the years they started with that receiver on the team, then divided the two numbers. I gathered a few more metrics and put them into some tiers here: Despite All Odds, Great ReceiveGreat QB, On Par, and Lucked Out
To be clear I think most of these dudes deserve to be in the Hall of Fame, I'm just trying to see how much help these guys had from their teams. I'm also going to add some dudes in here who haven't made it yet but probably deserve to.
QB Stability is the % of the receivers' total games that were started by the top 3 QBs in that receiver's career. Bigger number is more stable, smaller number is less stable.
HoF QB % is the % of games started in the receiver's career by a HoF QB.

Despite All Odds

These are players who didn't always have a great QB to play with but still performed dominantly no matter who was throwing the ball. In fact their play likely elevated the performance of their QBs.

Receiver Years R AV/G QB Stability HoF QB% QB AV/G Score
Terrell Owens 1996-10 0.763 71% 21% 0.900 85
Paul Warfield 1964-77 0.879 73% 37% 1.102 80
Calvin Johnson 2007-15 0.696 84% 0%* 0.889 78
Steve Largent 1976-89 0.700 92% 0% 0.905 77
Randy Moss 1998-12 0.743 60% 19% 1.014 73
Isaac Bruce 1994-09 0.610 71% 22% 0.852 72
James Lofton 1978-93 0.609 72% 25% 0.854 71
Tim Brown 1988-04 0.573 72% 0% 0.816 70
Candidates
Sterling Sharpe 1988-94 0.705 71% 26% 0.643 110
Steve Smith 2001-16 0.635 74% 0% 0.758 84
Torry Holt 1999-09 0.711 88% 29% 0.861 83
Henry Ellard 1983-98 0.588 67% 0% 0.763 77
Jimmy Smith 1992-05 0.690 93% 0% 0.895 77
Andre Johnson 2003-16 0.642 79% 0% 0.876 73
Rod Smith 1995-06 0.705 66% 17% 0.973 72
Larry Fitzgerald 2004-20 0.525 62% 22% 0.741 71

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HoFers:
  1. Terrell Owens
    1. Top 3 QBs: Jeff Garcia, Tony Romo, Steve Young
    2. Other QBs: Carson Palmer, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Trent Edwards, Drew Bledsoe, Brad Johnson, Brooks Bollinger, Donovan McNabb, Jeff Blake, Mike McMahon, Elvis Grbac, Jim Druckenmiller, Ty Detmer, Jeff Brohm, Rick Mirer, Tim Rattay
  2. Paul Warfield
    1. Frank Ryan, Bob Griese, Bill Nelsen
    2. Brian Sipe, Earl Morrall, Mike Phipps, Dave Mays, Terry Luck, George Mira, Jim Ninowski, Gary Lane
  3. Calvin Johnson
    1. Matthew Stafford, Jon Kitna, Daunte Culpepper
    2. Dan Orlovsky, Shaun Hill, Drew Stanton
  4. Steve Largen
    1. Jim Zorn, Dave Krieg, Kelly Stouffer
    2. Steve Myer, Gale Gilbert, Bruce Mathison, Jeff Kemp
  5. Randy Moss
    1. Daunte Culpepper, Tom Brady, Randall Cunningham
    2. Vince Young, Colin Kaepernick, Alex Smith, Brett Favre, Matt Cassel, Kerry Collins, Marques Tuiasosopo, Andrew Walter, Brad Johnson, Jeff George, Spergon Wynn, Gus Frerotte
  6. Isaac Bruce
    1. Marc Bulger, Kurt Warner, Chris Miller
    2. Mark Rypien, Tony Banks, Jamie Martin, Steve Bono, Trent Green, Shaun Hill, J.T. O'Sullivan, Alex Smith, Chris Chandler, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Gus Frerotte
  7. James Lofton
    1. Lynn Dickey, Jim Kelly, David Whitehurst
    2. Randy Wright, Jay Schroeder, Bubby Brister, Randall Cunningham, Ken O'Brien, Frank Reich, Marc Wilson, Rusty Hilger, Vince Evans, Steve Buerlein, Jim Zorn
  8. Tim Brown
    1. Rich Gannon, Jay Schroeder, Jeff Hostetler
    2. Brian Greise, Brad Johnson, Chris Simms, Steve Beurlein, Todd Marinovich, Vince Evans, Billy Joe Hobert, Jeff George, Donald Hollas, Wade Wilson, Rick Mirer
Candidates:
  1. Sterling Sharpe
    1. Don Majkowski, Brett Favre, Randy Wright
    2. Mike Tomczak, Anthony Dilweg, Blair Kiel
  2. Steve Smith
    1. Jake Delhomme, Cam Newton, Joe Flacco
    2. Ryan Mallett, Matt Schaub, Chris Weinke, Matt Lytle, Rodney Peete, Randy Fasani, Vinny Testaverde, David Carr, Matt Moore, Jimmy Clausen, Brian St. Pierre
  3. Torry Holt
    1. Marc Bulger, Kurt Warner, David Garrard
    2. Trent Green, Jamie Martin, Scott Covington, Chris Chandler, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Gus Frerotte, Brock Berlin
  4. Henry Ellard
    1. Jim Everett, Gus Frerotte, Vince Ferregamo
    2. Heath Schuler, T.J. Rubley, John Fries, Jeff Hostetler, Jeff Kemp, Dieter Brock, Steve Dils, Steve Bartowski, Drew Bledsoe
  5. Jimmy Smith
    1. Mark Brunell, Byron Leftwich, David Garrard
    2. Steve Beuerlein, Steve Matthews, Rob Johnson, Jonathan Quinn, Jamie Martin, Jay Fielder
  6. Andre Johnson
    1. David Carr, Matt Schaub, Ryan Fitzpatrick
    2. Marcus Mariota, Andrew Luck, Matt Hasselbeck, Josh Freeman, Tony Banks, Dave Ragone, Sage Rosenfels, T.J. Yates, Matt Leinart, Case Keenum, Ryan Mallett
  7. Rod Smith
    1. Jake Plummer, Brian Griese, John Elway
    2. Bill Musgrave, Bubby Brister, Chris Miller, Gus Frerotte, Steve Bueurlein, Danny Kanell, Jarious Jackson, Jay Cutler
  8. Larry Fitzgerald
    1. Carson Palmer, Kurt Warner, Kyler Murray
    2. Josh McCown, John Skelton, Matt Leinart, Kevin Kolb, Derek Anderson, Drew Stanton, Blaine Gabbert, Shaun King, John Navarre, Max Hall, Josh Rosen, Sam Bradford

Great ReceiveGreat QB

These are the hardest guys to judge because they were awesome most of their careers, but they also had phenomenal QB play for most that time. I stuck them in their own category because I don't really think they belong either category above or below this, my score doesn't really capture their greatness.

Receiver Years R AV/G QB Stability HoF QB% QB AV/G Score
Michael Irvin 1988-99 0.792 92% 97% 0.906 88
Charley Taylor 1964-77 0.752 98% 65% 0.915 82
Marvin Harrison 1996-08 0.842 99% 93% 1.111 76
Jerry Rice 1985-04 0.828 78% 66% 1.261 66
Candidates
Julio Jones 2011-21 0.848 100% 0%* 1.159 73
Antonio Brown 2010-21 0.767 92% 87%* 1.075 71

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HoFers
  1. Michael Irvin
    1. Troy Aikman, Steve Pelluer, Jason Garrett
    2. Kevin Sweeney, Steve Walsh, Babe Laufenberg, Steve Beuerlein, Bernie Kosar, Rodney Peete, Wade Wilson
  2. Charley Taylor
    1. Sonny Jurgensen, Billy Kilmer, Jim Ninowski
    2. Dick Shiner, Randy Johnson
  3. Marvin Harrison
    1. Peyton Manning, Jim Harbaugh, Paul Justin
    2. Kerwin Bell, Kelly Holcomb
  4. Jerry Rice
    1. Steve Young, Joe Montana, Rich Gannon
    2. Jeff Garcia, Steve Stenstrom, Ty Detmer, Jim Druckenmiller, Elvis Grbac, Steve Bono, Bob Gagliano, Mike Moroski, Jeff Kemp, Matt Cavanaugh, Kerry Collins, Marques Tuiasosopo, Rick Mirer, Trent Dilfer, Matt Hasselbeck
Candidates
  1. Julio Jones
    1. Matt Ryan, Ryan Tannehill, Matt Schaub
  2. Antonio Brown
    1. Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, Charlie Batch
    2. Landry Jones, Dennis Dixon, Byron Leftwich, Michael Vick

On Par

These are the guys I consider to have very good QB play, but their play wasn't as consistently phenomenal as the guys in the tiers above.

Receiver Years R AV/G QB Stability HoF QB% QB AV/G Score
Art Monk 1980-95 0.558 78% 0% 0.857 65
Andre Reed 1985-00 0.568 92% 68% 0.885 64
Cliff Branch 1972-85 0.590 82% 52% 0.951 62
Harold Carmichael 1971-84 0.555 87% 0% 0.912 61
Fred Biletnikoff 1965-78 0.621 93% 43% 1.037 60
John Stallworth 1974-87 0.624 79% 69% 1.073 58
Cris Carter 1987-02 0.577 63% 17% 1.013 57
Lynn Swann 1974-82 0.629 93% 97% 1.103 57
Candidates
Reggie Wayne 2001-14 0.725 96% 76% 1.052 69
Anquan Boldin 2003-16 0.584 68% 28%* 0.842 69
Brandon Marshall 2006-18 0.575 68% 3%* 0.855 67
Harold Jackson 1968-83 0.596 47% 2% 0.899 66
Stanley Morgan 1977-90 0.566 86% 0% 0.857 66
Hines Ward 1998-11 0.548 93% 52%* 0.829 66
Irving Fryar 1984-00 0.439 44% 14% 0.725 61

https://preview.redd.it/xp3tfyd3yt191.jpg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6f70700b79d28fa13f4215edddff989a9735cbb
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HoFers:
  1. Art Monk
    1. Joe Theismann, Mark Rypien, Jay Schroeder
    2. Doug Williams, Randall Cunningham, Rodney Peete, Boomer Esiason, Jack Trudeau, Mike Kruczek, Ed Rubbert, Stan Humphries, Jeff Rutledge, Rich Gannon, Cary Conklin
  2. Andre Reed
    1. Jim Kelly, Doug Flutie, Rob Johnson
    2. Brad Johnson, Jeff George, Vince Ferragamo, Bruce Mathison, Frank Reich, Willie Totten, Gale Gilbert, Alex Van Pelt, Todd Collins
  3. Cliff Branch
    1. Ken Stabler, Jim Plunkett, Marc Wilson
    2. Mike Rae, Larry Lawrence, Dan Pastorini, Daryle Lamonica, George Blanda
  4. Harold Carmichael
    1. Ron Jaworski, Roman Gabriel, Mike Boryla
    2. Pete Liske, Rick Arrington, John Reaves, Joe Pisarcik
  5. Fred Biletnikoff
    1. Daryle Lamonica, Ken Stabler, Tom Flores
    2. Dick Wood, Cotton Davidson, George Blanda, Larry Lawrence, Mike Rae
  6. John Stallworth
    1. Terry Bradshaw, Mark Malone, Cliff Stoudt
    2. David Woodley, Mike Kruczek, Joe Gilliam, Terry Hanratty, Scott Campbell, Bubby Brister, Steve Bono
  7. Cris Carter
    1. Randall Cunningham, Brad Johnson, Warren Moon
    2. Ray Lucas, Jay Fielder, Daunte Culpepper, Spergeon Wynn, Todd Bouman, Rich Gannon, Wade Wilson, Sean Salisbury, Jeff George, Scott Tinsley
  8. Lynn Swann
    1. Terry Bradshaw, Joe Gilliam, Mike Kruczek
    2. Terry Hanratty, Cliff Stoudt, Mark Malone
Candidates:
  1. Reggie Wayne
    1. Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, Curtis Painter
    2. Kerry Collins, Dan Orlovsky
  2. Anquan Boldin
    1. Kurt Warner, Joe Flacco, Colin Kaepernick
    2. Josh McCown, Matthew Stafford, Blaine Gabbert, Jeff Blake, Shaun King, John Navarre, Matt Leinart
  3. Brandon Marshall
    1. Jay Cutler, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Chad Henne
    2. Kyle Orton, Bryce Petty, Geno Smith, Jason Campbell, Josh McCown, Jimmy Clausen, Chad Henne, Tyler Thigpen, Chad Pennington, Chris Simms, Eli Manning, Jake Plummer, Russell Wilson
  4. Harold Jackson
    1. Steve Grogan, James Harris, John Hadl
    2. Pat Haden, Pete Liske, Dave Krieg, Jim Zorn, Matt Cavanaugh, Tom Owen, Ron Jaworski, Joe Namath, John Reaves, Norm Snead, Roman Gabriel, Rick Arrington, George Mira
  5. Stanley Morgan
    1. Steve Grogan, Tony Eason, Matt Cavanaugh
    2. Doug Flutie, Tom Owen, Tom Ramsey, Bob Bleier, Jeff George, Jack Trudeau
  6. Hines Ward
    1. Ben Roethlisberger, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox
    2. Charlie Batch, Mike Tomczak, Kent Graham, Dennis Dixon
  7. Irving Fryar
    1. Tony Eason, Dan Marino, Steve Grogan
    2. Jeff Carlson, Scott Zolak, Hugh Millen, Tom Hodson, Marc Wilson, Tom Ramsey, Doug Flutie, Bob Bleier, Jeff George, Brad Johnson, Koy Detmer, Bobby Hoying, Rodney Peete, Ty Detmer, Bernie Kosar, Steve DeBerg, Scott Mitchell

Lucked Out

I think these guys belong in the Hall of Fame, but if you gave these guys the same QBs as someone like Steve Largent, they may not have made it.

Receiver Years R AV/G QB Stability HoF QB% QB AV/G Score
Drew Pearson 1973-83 0.628 99% 64% 1.167 54
Charlie Joiner 1969-86 0.561 78% 56% 1.054 53

https://preview.redd.it/axzbggwuxt191.jpg?width=305&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=039843c5b1f2c5cc4c753cddd727dfbd116f6d2d
HoFers:
  1. Drew Pearson
    1. Roger Staubach, Danny White, Clint Longley
    2. Glenn Carano
  2. Charlie Joiner
    1. Dan Fouts, Ken Anderson, Charley Johnson
    2. Dan Pastorini, Clint Longley, James Harris, Pete Beathard, Cliff Olander, Ed Luther, Mark Herrmann, Tom Flick, Wayne Clark, John Reaves, Don Trull, Bob Davis, Jerry Rhome, Lynn Dickey
submitted by chadowan to nfl [link] [comments]


2022.05.02 06:43 frogger3344 Does the world have enough Quarterbacks to support an expansion team?

TLDR: No.
One of the common reasons to be against adding more expansion teams is the idea that the world physically does not have enough NFL caliber players. I decided to take a look at the difference in QB top, middle, and bottom tier quarterbacks before and after previous expansions. I looked at 1994 (28 teams), 1995 (30 teams), 2001 (31 teams), and 2002 (32 teams).
In this thought experiment, I took the compared the middle 3 QBs in the NFL to the top and bottom 3 respectively. The stats that I looked at were Yards, TDs, and INT.
1994
Top 3 Averages: 4424 yards, 24.333 TD, 21 INT
Middle 3 Averages: 2792 yards, 15.333 TD, 11.666 INT
Bottom 3 Averages: 1468.666 yards, 7.666 TD, 8 INT
1994 Summary: The top 3 quarterbacks (Bledsoe, Marino, and Moon) threw for 58.40% more yards, 58.70% more TD, and 80% more INT than the middle of the pack quarterbacks. In contrast, the middle QBs (Erickson, Esiason, and Aikman) threw for nearly twice as many yards, twice as many TD, and 45.83% more INT than the bottom quarterbacks (Schroeder, Mitchell, and Harbaugh).
1995
Top 3 Averages: 4326.333 yards, 34.333 TD, and 19.5 INT
Middle 3 Averages: 3073.666 yards, 20 TD, 10 INT
Bottom 3 Averages: 2147 yards, 14.333 TD, 10.333 INT
1995 Summary: The top 3 quarterbacks (Favre, Mitchell, and Moon) had 40.75% more yards, 71.67% TD, and 95% more INT than the middle QBs (Kelly, Bono, and O'Donnell). Those same middle QBs threw for 43.16% more yards, 39.53% more TD, fewer INT than the bottom QBs (Esiason, Brunell, and Hostetler).
First expansion results: The bottom quarterbacks were closer to the average QBs in 1995 than 1994. Showing that at the time, the gap between the low end and middle tier QBs was not enormous, and the gap between the middle and top tier QBs became closer between the two seasons. Showing that by looking at QBs alone, expansion was good for parity in the NFL. One interesting note, Scott Mitchell (Lions) had a massive turnaround between 1994 and 1995 going from the bottom of the league to the top of the league between seasons.
2001
Top 3 Averages: 4294 yards, 32 TD, 20 INT
Middle 3 Averages: 3246.333 yards, 19 TD, and 17.666 INT
Bottom 3 Averages: 2246 yards, 11.666 TD, and 10.333 INT
2001 Summary: The difference between the top QBs (Warner, Manning, and Favre) and the middle tier QBs (Fielder, McNabb, and Kitna) continued to shrink at this time. The top QBs threw for 32.29% more yards, 68.42% more TD, and 13.21% more INT than the mid-tier QBs. The difference between the middle tier and bottom tier (Banks, Miller, and Van Pelt) was similar to 1995. The middle 3 QBs threw for 43.26% more yards, 62.87% more TD, and 70.97% more INT than the bottom tier QBs
2002
Top 3 Averages: 4416 yards, 25.666 TD, and 14.666 INT
Middle 3 Averages: 3081.333 yards, 19.666 TD, 7.333 INT
Bottom 3 Averages: 1640 yards, 10 TD, 7.333 INT
2002 Summary: The difference between the best (Gannon, Bledsoe, and Manning) and middle (Pennington, Hasselbeck, and Johnson) QBs widened compared to the previous year, with the top QBs throwing 43.31% more yards, 30.51% more TD, and twice as many INT. In contrast, the middle QBs absolutely demolished the lowest 3 quarterbacks (Bulger, Hutchinson, Ramsey) in all passing categories, except for INT. The middle QBs threw for 87.89% more yards, 96.67% more TD, and the same amount of INT.
Second Expansion Results: The quality of lower tier QB play dropped significantly when compared to the year before. It looks like that there were not enough starting caliber QBs at the time to expand to 32 teams.
What does this mean for future expansion?
Big shocker, if the pattern follows the same trend as the 2002 expansion, QB play at the bottom of the league is going to be absolutely horrific. Maybe the world only has enough NFL players to support ~30 competent teams based on the relative parity that and a 30 team league enjoyed for 6 years
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2022.01.14 09:04 yL4O u/yL4O's Wild-Card, Working-Fingers, Playoff Gambling Manifesto 6.0 Mailbag

Do you remember the last time Bill Simmons wrote a wild-card playoff column? It was right after the 2017 season. He went 0-4 against the spread (2-2 straight up, although I'm told by the man himself that straight up doesn't mean anything), and we all had a grand old time watching a video called "Ram It" that appears to have been removed from YouTube.
In case you need a reminder of how long ago the 2018 playoffs were, here were the quarterbacks playing that week: Matt Ryan (run it back again with Matt in 2022, Atlanta!), Drew Brees (not quite a cadaver back then), Alex Smith (backed up by rookie Mahomes, offering hope to Trey Lances everywhere), Jared Goff (McVay's debut season), Marcus Mariota (Tannehill was with Adam Gase in Miami), Tyrod Taylor (who later got benched for Josh Allen -- as it turned out, not because of racism), Blake Bortles (who has had 5 stints, 0 starts, and innumerable Pardon My Take appearances in the past 3 seasons), and Cam Newton (who half of the Panthers fan base still thinks is the guy to lead them to the Super Bowl). By the way, Nick Foles and Case Keenum were poised to match up in the NFC Championship (or, as Bill would say, "Round 3") a couple weeks later. Suffice to say that times have changed.
So, I wanted to offer this mailbag to you as a sort of crude imitation of the able-fingered man we once knew (I hope, for the Sports Gal's sake, that he's still able to satisfy her in other ways). These are real tweets from actual tweeters, but the Bill impression is preposterously fake. Despite that, let's have some fun, make some picks, and argue in the comments section about what we expect this weekend.
I think we had spent so much time talking up the tie (and in that moment hearing about the tie) that by then we, as a football watching society, had convinced ourselves they were Definitely Doing The Tie.
--Mina, New York
THE CHARGERS TOOK THE TIMEOUT AND THAT BROKE THE TRUST BETWEEN THE TWO IT’S CLASSIC PRISONER’S DILEMMA
--Matt, Denver
Let's talk about the almost-tie. I think the end of that game has the potential to become this generation's JFK assassination. It's an event that offers (1) an obvious explanation (Oswald acted alone :: Vegas was always going to kick the field goal); (2) an alternative explanation that aligns more closely with our worldview (the seedy U.S. government had a hand in taking out the president :: the Doofus Nerd Boy Brandon Staley outfoxed himself by calling a timeout when Vegas was going to run out the clock and accept the tie); (3) one "standard" piece of video evidence that neither clearly confirms nor denies either explanation (the Zapruder film :: the NBC broadcast); and (4) enough random details (listed below) that several theories could possibly be true, including the cool alternative ones.
DETAIL #1: The Raiders, unlike the Chargers, had incentive to win instead of tie. LAC was going to be the 6 seed with a win or a tie. Vegas would have been the 7-seed with a tie, which would have sent them to Kansas City, as opposed the trip to Cincinnati they earned with the win. After a decade under Andy Reid's boot, is it any wonder that the Raiders pushed forward at the end when a tie was just a couple kneels away?
DETAIL #2: Both Derek Carr and Rich Bisaccia said after the game that Staley's timeout "changed their strategy." It's not clear what this means, but we know it doesn't mean they were just taking a knee to end the game pre-timeout, because...
DETAIL #3: The Raiders were in Shotgun formation for the play on which Staley called timeout, with just :38 left on the clock. This is pretty damning for the "they were going to kneel it out" theory, because this could have been the final play of the game if both teams had allowed it to be.
DETAIL #4: Vegas kicker Daniel Carlson has been incredibly reliable from long-distance this season, including 6/7 from 50+ yards. This matters because the Raiders had reason to trust that a 55-yarder was not a serious risk of disaster (block returned for TD; kick-six) if they had just kicked it from where they were on the field before Staley's timeout.
DETAIL #5: After Jacobs picked up the first down on his post-timeout run, Vegas still had a timeout and about 30 seconds to work with if they wanted to get closer for Carlson. In a normal situation, a team would almost always try to run the ball a couple more times and pick up 5-10 more yards before calling that timeout with :02 remaining to put the game away. Why didn't the Raiders do that? Is it possible that they left Carlson with a longer field goal than necessary because they weren't so worried about him missing the kick?
Really, Detail #2 is the sticking-point here, and to a lesser extent Detail #5. Carr and the Pit Boss wouldn't just lie about that, right? There must have been a more tie-friendly strategy that the Raiders abandoned, and the strategy they ultimately employed wasn't as tie-phobic as it could have been. But what could that original strategy have been other than simply kneeling it out, which they clearly were not going to do even before Staley's timeout?
My theory: the Raiders were content to run a short play to the middle of the field (maybe have Jacobs run to the middle of the field and fall down, which teams often do in endgame situations like this). Then, they could run the clock down to :02, call timeout, and try the field goal from the ~38 yard line (on 4th & 3 or so), which would have been about a 55-yarder. Carlson wasn't automatic from that range, but he has been good enough that he could be instructed to kick it at a regular arc (avoiding the heightened risk of a block) and it would still have a 99% chance of at least reaching the crossbar (avoiding the heightened risk of a kick-six). This strategy would have meant that the Raiders were trying to win, but they weren't trying as hard as they could be if they were still looking to pick up yardage with the remaining 38 seconds in the game.
So, how did the strategy change? When Staley called timeout, the Raiders had 3rd & 4, and LA had one more timeout remaining. Had Vegas played it conservatively, Staley could have called his final timeout, which would have brought up 4th down, which would have forced Carlson to attempt a field goal (or perhaps convince Bisaccia to punt) with about 35 seconds left. Either way, the wonky timeout (36 seconds into the play clock??) suggested that Staley wanted to at least create a possibility that Herbert could get the ball one more time and try to make some magic happen. The Raiders obviously couldn't tolerate that, so they had to pick up the first down and guarantee that they would finish the game with the ball. Ergo, they handed it to Jacobs actually trying to pick up first-down yardage, which he did, and the rest is history.
What happened with Joe Judge? I thought he wasn’t getting fired.
--Joe, Boston
Good question, Joe. Was this the first Black Tuesday firing in NFL history?
For the uninitiated, Joe Judge had been rumored to be keeping his job for weeks, because the Mara family is just Too Nice to bail on a coach after two years, and then several reporters confirmed on Black Monday that he was safe even as several guys with superior resumes were shown the door. The internet threw a fit, as the internet is wont to do. And then, on Tuesday, he got the axe.
I think the only way to read this is as proof that cyberbullying works. I don't know what else could have changed in 24 hours; it certainly wasn't Giants ownership, which hasn't changed hands since 1925. Some poor intern in the Giants' social media room had had enough of the abuse, and ran it up the flagpole, and eventually the Maras got wind that their fan base was unhappy. It isn't out of the question that this was the first time they were aware that their fans' angst since the Eli-for-Geno swap, which, coincidentally, was what cost Ben McAdoo his job.
Speaking of which, this is a chance to pitch my latest half-baked idea: make a team's most recently-retired hall-of-fame player the "prime minister" of the franchise. I don't care if these out-of-touch old guys own these teams and derive revenue from them, but it messes with the competitive balance of the league when owners are too ignorant of reality to properly manage a thing, like the Giants, that millions of people care about. You're telling me that the Giants wouldn't be better off if Michael Strahan had an executive role in that brain-trust? The Lions wouldn't be on a better path if Calvin Johnson was calling some shots? Washington fans wouldn't be more excited about a team run by Russ Grimm?
Plus, this idea would incentivize certain guys to go into the hall of fame with a less successful franchise. When Myles Garrett gets disgruntled and demands a trade from Cleveland in 2 years, then wins multiple DPOYs with the Ravens, you know what would make him want to enter Canton as a Brown? The chance to be prime minister for an NFL franchise -- because Lamar Jackson is about to take the reins in Baltimore, and Leroy Kelly can only hold on for so much longer in Cleveland.
Anyway, yeah, the Maras are approaching year 100 of running the Giants, Judge probably had to go, and Simmons is still furious that this goofy franchise robbed his team of two rings.
Screw your survivor pools, your parlay went down in flames, and moneyline was a joke. @Jaguars took your money in week 18. @TheCousinSal @BillSimmons That's what you get for betting on Carson Wentz. Your tears make me stronger.
--ModernaDerpWolfNFT, Florida
Words hurt, ModernaDerpWolfNFT. This feels like the type of tweet that Ben Simmons (Bill's son, not the Australian check-collector) will be writing when he starts tweeting. This specific guy 100% subscribes to this sub (let me know in the comments if you're reading this!). But this man yelling at a cloud does have a point: Bill broke a playoff gambling rule or two when he backed Carson Wentz in what was essentially a playoff game for the Colts. Because it's been four years since his last gambling manifesto, I thought it best to re-hash a few of these old rules for Bill and anyone else who may be betting irresponsibly this weekend:
Rule No. 1: When in doubt, gravitate toward one pick that (a) would screw over the most gamblers and experts, and (b) would definitely go against the single worst gambler you know.
I'm calling this the "let's make some money while simultaneously laughing at Warren Sharp" rule. I think there is one team that the sharps have been particularly down on this season that can hang around enough to ruin some teases and cost a lot of annoying people a lot of money. More on this later.
Rule No. 2: Beware of the “Looked a Little Too Good the Previous Round” team.
Or, for Wild Card Weekend, the team that wowed you the last time you saw them at full strength. Perhaps a team that won convincingly last Saturday night, or a team that won a big game as a home dog in week 17 and rested a bunch of guys in week 18.
Rule No. 3: Don’t bet against God, puppies, gambling theories from Pakistan, or teams that Cris Collinsworth describes as "one of the greatest stories in NFL history."
I made a slight revision to this historic manifesto rule. You may be sensing where I'm going with the Shakey's game.
Rule No. 4: Never pick an underdog unless you genuinely believe that it has a chance to win.
A manifesto staple, and a great rule of thumb, but gets increasingly hard to follow in practice as spreads get bigger.
Rule No. 5: Beware of any and all aging QBs in cold weather unless they drink half their body weight in water every day, get 10 hours of sleep, master every conceivable pliability exercise, have lots of sex with a supermodel wife, don’t drink alcohol, don’t eat inflammatory foods, don’t smoke or do drugs, improbably become faster in their late 30s and basically behave like an alien.
This rule still applies exactly as Bill wrote it 4 years ago.
Rule No. 6: Beware of the “Everybody Believes In Us” team.
It's worth wondering who the "Everybody Believes In Us" team is this year. It's not Tennessee, who has the third-best odds of winning their own conference despite the fact that they're the 1-seed and the only team with a bye. I don't think it's Green Bay, either, because people are dubious of Rodgers after he's been striking out in the NFC title game consistently for a decade. Tampa has a ton of injuries. People still have questions about Buffalo, who lost to Jacksonville. And anyone who believes in the Rams after these past couple weeks should be incarcerated. The Cowboys are only getting a half-point on a neutral field against a deeply flawed 49ers team. By process of elimination, that leaves only one team that has been considered among the NFL's elite all year long and still has practically everyone believing in them. I'll let you figure out who.
Rule No. 7: Don’t ever talk yourself into a terrible QB, ever, for any reason.
There is some debate as to what "terrible" means. Was Drew Brees, who cruised to a wild-card win over Chicago, "terrible"? What about Nick Foles going into the 2017 playoffs, whom Bill preemptively declared a disaster before Foles played one of the best Super Bowls of all time to take another ring away from Brady? (Yes, that's me laughing because I got to poke at all 3 of Belichick's Super Bowl losses before I made a single pick.) I'm not sure that any QB in these playoffs is "terrible." Big Ben is clearly the closest, but I'm not sure if he's truly awful or just a shell of his former, hall-of-fame caliber self.
Rule No. 8: Beware of any team that celebrated the previous weekend’s victory like it had just won the Super Bowl.
Oh, look, there's Joe Burrow basking in the light of a week 17 win.
Rule No. 9: Don’t try to be a hero, just try to win money.
I think a lot of you screwed this up last season with Bears/Saints. You took a road team with an inferior quarterback, an inferior coach, and a mediocre overall roster because 9.5 points was too many to give Drew Brees at that point in his career. Don't get cute with this. There's one specific game that will tempt you to break Rule No. 9, which is really the Golden Rule of the gambling manifesto. I'll tell you which one in a second, but before I do, I want to say it again and again: resist. Resist. Resist.
Rule No. 10: There’s plenty of time to bet against any QB or coach.
I know you want to hammer whoever's playing Jimmy G. I know you can't imagine the Raiders making it to the final four. I'm there with you. We'll ride together next weekend. But, for now, stick to the script.
(Home teams in caps.)
Las Vegas (+4.5) over CINCINNATI.
It's been...11,331 days since the #Bengals won a playoff game.
--Cincinnati Playoff Curse Clock, Cincinnati
Somehow, the Raiders are the less cursed team in this delicious Shakey’s game. Cincy is a long-tenured veteran of Saturday wild card games, including these paeans of pain: (1) the 2005 Steelers loss where their supernova quarterback got his knee annihilated 5 minutes into the playoffs; (2) the 2009 Jets loss where Shayne Graham’s 28-yard field goal went wide right and locked up Mark Sanchez’ first playoff win; (3) the 2011 Texans loss, to TJ Yates, in which rookie Andy Dalton recorded a Delhomme—3 INTs, 1 pick-six, and 1 fumble; (4) the 2012 Texans loss in which the Bengals defense gave up 19 points, and put up 7 of their own, but still didn’t get enough from Dalton and Co. to win; (5) the 2013 Chargers loss where Dalton gave the home crowd 2 picks, 2 fumbles, and 0 second-half points; (6) the 2014 Colts loss where Cincy put up another donut in the second half; and (7) the 2015 Steelers loss where Vontaze Burfict and Antonio Brown had a disagreement.
That’s the whole list of Cincy playoff games since 1990. Ladies and gentlemen…your 21st century Cincinnati Bengals!!!
Of course, this is a completely different team than those Marvin Lewis squads that went an impossible 0-7 in postseason competition. But, what exactly have these Bengals accomplished? They won a division over an injured QB who didn’t play (Lamar Jackson), an injured QB who did play (Baker Mayfield), and a QB who injures us all by continuing to trot out there every Sunday (Ben Roethlisberger). I’m happy for them that they beat the Chiefs, but what’s their next-most impressive win? And does that win look as good as a recent blowout loss to the mediocre Chargers and a skin-of-their-teeth survival against the Broncos?
I don’t know why I’m getting 1.5 free points for the Raiders in this game. I understand that Cincy beat them comfortably earlier this year, but Vegas is a different group now. Something has clicked in that locker room, and they’re all playing for each other because they probably need to win this game to keep the band together (that goes for the Pit Boss, his assistants, and a good deal of the Gruden-drafted roster). If the Bengals lose this game, what’s the harm? They weren’t supposed to come this far this soon anyway. Win or lose, Burrow’s future will still be bright, and Ja’Marr Chase will still be the most expensive receiver in your fantasy auction next fall.
Simply put, one of these teams wants to win this game, and the other one needs to win. And you’re giving me the 3 home-field points, plus 1.5 more, to take the team that needs to win? Against a franchise that hasn’t won a playoff game in the 21st century? Sign me up.
We all have a general idea of what’s going to happen here, right? We know there will be three or four moments in this game where the long-tortured Cincy crowd will groan because Maxx Crosby got into the backfield again versus the porous Bengals o-line. We know there will be a suspect DPI against somebody guarding Zay Jones that will give Las Vegas a red zone trip. And, most of all, we know that this Pit Boss/Zombie Gruden team has had their backs against the wall all season, and pulled out improbable win after improbable win. I say they keep the line moving one more week. Bengals miss a game-tying 2-pointer late and Raiders win outright.
PREDICTION: Las Vegas 27, Cincinnati 25.
BUFFALO (-4) over New England.
Bart Scott suggested that Josh Allen take Viagra before a game? Makes perfect sense. Bart may not have been the best linebacker in the league, but he sure played hard.
--Nate, Denver
What are we going to do if the Pats-Bills game lasts longer than four hours?
--Ido, Switzerland
Ahh, yes, The Viagra Game. These are two teams that spent the 120 minutes of football they played against one another in a continuous dick-measuring contest anyway.
I remember when I was a kid watching football with my dad. Like many fathers and sons, we’d spend hours on the couch, only getting up to grab some food or take a piss. There’s a lot of beer advertised during professional football games. There is also a lot of male enhancement advertised. And, without fail, for a decade, my dad had the same reaction to every single ED medication commercial: muting the television. “Get this trash off my TV!” He was like a little boy plugging his ears and yelling when his third-grade girlfriend is trying to break up with him. As I got older, I started to enjoy this faithful, almost Pavlovian response, because it reminded me that my dad was trying to be willingly ignorant about erectile dysfunction—a widespread medical condition that, just like the common cold, can be cured with a drug.
Men are strange creatures. There are two things that every (straight) man wants every woman in his life to know: (1) he can get it up; and (2) he knows stuff. Viagra, therefore, creates a paradox. You can show a woman you know stuff by telling her that Viagra helps keep you warm in frigid weather, but at what cost? She’ll know you’re familiar with Viagra. Or, you can be ignorant about it, and thus preserve your perceived erectile function, but then you’re a guy who doesn’t know stuff. It’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Bart Scott knew about Viagra; I did not. I don’t know which of us comes off better.
By the way, it's enough with the Patriots, who haven’t played an all-phases good game since November. It’s going to be 10 degrees at kickoff. Mac Jones is from Jacksonville. This is his first winter north of the Mason-Dixon line. He probably doesn’t know what “sleet” means. Oh, and the Bills are clearly the better team. Bill Belichick is the best coach ever; he’s not a necromancer. Remember Rule 9; don’t overthink this one.
PREDICTION: Buffalo 16, New England 6.
TAMPA BAY (-9) over Philadelphia.
The Bucs will never be able to win a Super Bowl with Tom Brady as QB.
--Sal, California
Another Rule 9 game. The Bucs have lost an entire Super Bowl-caliber receiving corps in the past few weeks, they lost 9-0 to a non-playoff team less than a month ago. And nobody believes in the Eagles, even though they've been defensive stalwarts in the second half of the season and Jalen Hurts has repeatedly made the right play when it matters. But, guess what? This is still a team playing for 2024 against a team playing for right now. It’s the defending Super Bowl champs against a team that went 0-6 against playoff teams, and 1-7 against teams above .500. It’s Nick Sirianni and Jalen Hurts against Bruce Arians and Tom Effing Brady. So, it’s a Rule 4 game as well -- I don’t even think Philly fans genuinely think they can win.
There will be moments when it makes sense to pick against this threadbare Bucs team -- maybe even next week if they draw the Cowboys -- but this ain’t it. Brady’s been to the playoffs 700 times with nary a loss like this one would be.
PREDICTION: Tampa Bay 31, Philadelphia 12.
San Francisco (+3.5) over DALLAS.
If Madden and Summerall, or Michaels, Deirdorf and Gifford can’t call that Cowboys 49ers game, give me Romo and Nantz.
--Rohit, Los Angeles
I agree that Romo/Nantz is the A-team right now. I keep waiting for the world to turn on Romo’s unique antics, or on Nantz’ eagerness to step on him sometimes, but the truth is that we don’t have another booth who can push them to be truly great. Part of what put Madden/Summerall in that stratosphere all by themselves historically is that they had Gifford/Cosell/Meredith, and later Gifford/Michaels/Dierdorf, following close behind them. Al and Cris are just not quite at those guys’ levels (though I loved Cris spending the final 90 minutes of Raiders/Chargers pining for a tie). No booth with Troy Aikman involved has a chance to get there. I think we’re stuck with Romo/Nantz being the uninspiring title-holders until Peyton Manning or Phil Rivers finally grow a pair and call a game in the standard way. And, yes, I’m furious that Johnson/Talib get buried on Cardinals/Lions at 4:05 pm every Sunday too.
Now, about the game itself: enough has been said about it. We’re all excited. Ultimately, these are two even teams, except Dallas has the superior QB and San Francisco has the superior coach. It’s a great matchup for the Niners because the thing they do best—defensive line—counteracts what the Cowboys do best—offensive line. The trench battle on that side of the ball will make the difference, and we’ll have a lot of fun, but beyond that I don’t have much of a read here. I’m taking the points, and I’m taking Shanahan and Jimmy B-minus against Mike McCarthy and the banged-up Dallas backfield.
PREDICTION: San Francisco 31, Dallas 28.
Pittsburgh (+12.5) over KANSAS CITY.
Who is the “Nobody Believes In Us!” round 1 playoff team?
--Jabaal-Abdul, Los Angeles
Steelers. Steelers. Steelers. Big Ben is leaning all the way into the underdog thing. And, sure, you may say, the Steelers haven't won a playoff game since the 2016 season, and they got trounced by Cleveland last year, and they just lost to Kansas City by 26 a month ago, and their quarterback leaves you so flaccid that you might become impotent for life if you look at him for too long, and it's going to be 30 degrees in Arrowhead on Sunday night (see Rule No. 5), and the Chiefs are the by far the best team of the four years since Bill's last wild-card column, and...yes. All that is true. Nobody believes in "nobody believes in us" teams for a reason, and this Pittsburgh team has quite a few reasons to work with. And, yes, I am egregiously violating Rule 4 by picking a team that I think has virtually no chance, barring a Mahomes injury, to win outright.
But: this is too many points. Let me tell you why.
First and foremost, these two teams are a backdoor cover waiting to happen. The Chiefs are 8-9 against the spread despite going 12-5 straight up -- evidence enough that they allow some crappy teams to cover. And Pittsburgh loves to make up big deficits in postseason garbage time: those famous losses to Jacksonville in 2017 and Cleveland last year ended up closer than you remember. Be honest: do you really trust the Chiefs, one of the great dicking-around teams of our time, to sustain a 17- or 14-point lead with 2 minutes left and Ben looking for one last touchdown? This is so many points that the Chiefs could be up 27-7 with 5 seconds remaining and not cover.
Second, although there have been obvious and memorable exceptions, the Steelers have not made a habit of giving up a ton of points to opposing teams this year. Since the beginning of December, they've given up 19, 36 (that goofy Vikings game that they -- if you'll recall -- came out of nowhere to cover), 13 (to the 1 seed Titans), 36 again (to KC), 14, and 13. That Chiefs game is the only one in that stretch that Pittsburgh didn't win or backdoor cover.
Third, the coaching matchup has to be considered. Mike Tomlin has had some dumb playoff losses, but you know who has the longest reputation for postseason chicanery in today's NFL? That's right: Andrew Reid!!! Bill used to have a gambling manifesto rule specifically tailored to betting against Reid, which I think is unfair now that he's won a title, but let's not pretend like the significant weight of Reid's career doesn't bend toward underperforming all the time. During those 2017 playoffs we keep mentioning, he lost a game to Mike Mularkey's Titans because his team blew a 21-3 lead and gave up a touchdown pass from Marcus Mariota to Marcus Mariota. There are plenty more demons behind that curtain. Don't think for a second that he can't lay another stinkbomb just because he has the baby GOAT in his back pocket now.
Fourth, the Chiefs are obviously the "everyone believes in us" team. Did you know they're +175 to make the Super Bowl when the Bills (on a tear lately) and the Titans (the 1-seed who has a 1-game head start and will only have to beat, at most, one of Buffalo/KC, at home, to win the conference) are +350? These are the same Chiefs who floundered around for the first half of the season, right? The same Chiefs who couldn't finish off the Bengals two weeks ago to clinch the top seed? I'm not saying put your mortgage payment on the Steelers money line, but think about this stupid team getting 12.5 in a playoff game against a Steelers team that has blue-chippers on both sides of the ball.
Fifth, I think Mahomes is a higher injury risk than the normal QB in this situation. He got hurt and missed several weeks in 2019. He had to miss the most of a dicey playoff game against the Browns last season. What happens if he tweaks something when they're up 3 touchdowns early in the 4th? What happens if he gets his brains scrambled again by a gruesome TJ Watt hit?
Sixth, and finally, you know Warren Sharp hates the Steelers. You know Schrager and Simmons talked about this game for 30 seconds on their podcast and basically assumed ipso facto that the Chiefs would cover. You know Joe House is going to tease the Chiefs and the Bucs and somehow get beat on it. You know it will be hilarious when all of these people lose money and KC advances anyway.
I know it's the corpse of Ben Roethlisberger on the road in cold weather against the Chiefs. I know they just lost by 26 to this same team. But I can't take Kansas City -12.5 against a playoff team that has looked better in recent weeks. Choose Rule 1 and Rule 6 at the expense of Rule 4 and Rule 7. Plug your nose. Take the points.
PREDICTION: Kansas City 24, Pittsburgh 16.
LA RAMS (-4) over Arizona.
I feel like nobody cares about this game because we all know both teams are fraudulent. The Rams have 5 of the 6 best players in the game (Hopkins is injured, so it’s just Hurt Kyler against Donald, Ramsey, Kupp, Von Miller, and Leonard Floyd) and a clear coaching advantage. LAR is also the home team, and the Cardinals have stunk out loud for the past several weeks, including losing a game last week that could have won them their division, except they were outclassed in all phases by the long-lost Seahawks. Arizona's only good recent win is over Dallas, whom I expressed my reservations about above.
I’ll almost definitely bet on whoever the Rams are playing next week (probably the Packers), but I’m not getting near Arizona under any circumstances. In all honesty, they may be my #14 team in the playoff field.
You can almost hear John Madden watching Deebo Samuel and saying “he’s just a football player.”
--Will, Bay Area
I’m putting this tweet here because it made me wonder who Madden’s favorite modern NFL player would be, and I think it’s a Ram. There are several nominees -- Deebo is one, David Bakhtiari, Micah Parsons -- but the answer is Aaron Donald. Who would geek out more about Donald’s historic brute brilliance, and the fact that a bunch of teams passed on him because he was “undersized,” than Madden? Look at this series of Larry Allen plays, called by Madden mid-orgasm. The guy who can get you the closest approximation of that today is Donald. He’d clearly be the star of the modern all-Madden team.
And if you’re asking me whether we can expect Donald to be terrorizing Injured Kyler while he flings a pass to Christian Kirk or whoever, with Ramsey draped all over him, all night long, the answer is yes. Give me the Rams in a laugher, then they can go lose on the road next week with Stafford, just like they did last year with Goff. Same as it ever was.
PREDICTION: Los Angeles 34, Arizona 20.
By the way, what a cool moment last week when three different generations of football fans got to eulogize Madden in their own ways. I knew him primarily as the video game guy. Simmons knew him as the broadcaster. Simmons’ dad knew him as the coach. One of the coolest legacies imaginable, evidenced by the fact that the internet was so well-behaved when he passed.
Someone is gonna tweet "Bob Saget is railing Betty White with RBG and John Madden" and it will get a million retweets.
--Blake, Cincinnati
Wait, what? Did I speak too soon?? Are we...in range???
The creation of the Madden video game was not a great development for the U.S. It further glamorized violence and dehumanized Black athletes, helping to establish plantation cosplay that has grown worse in the era of fantasy football. When your entire life is based on expanding and profiting off one of the most violent and exploitative games, veneration is not exactly something that you deserve.
--Andrew, Dallas
Um, well, I guess we're getting there...
I had a white friend once. He loved the Madden video game.
--Ryen, Malibu
...yup. These are my tweeters.
submitted by yL4O to billsimmons [link] [comments]


2022.01.12 16:17 FlatEarthMagellan Every first-round QB drafted by team in the Super Bowl era

Since drafting a QB is the hot topic I complied a list of every first run quarterback drafted by team in the Super Bowl era. What team do you think has done the best & worst in picking franchise QB’s?
Bears (five): Mitchell Trubisky (2017); Rex Grossman (2003); Cade McNown (1999); Jim Harbaugh (1987); Jim McMahon (1982).
Bengals (six): Joe Burrow (2020); Carson Palmer (2003); Akili Smith (1999); David Klinger (1992); Jack Thompson (1979); Greg Cook (1969).
Bills (four): Josh Allen (2018); EJ Manuel (2013); J.P. Losman (2004); Jim Kelly (1983).
Broncos (four): Paxton Lynch (2016); Tim Tebow (2010); Jay Cutler (2006); Tommy Maddox (1992).
Browns (seven): Baker Mayfield (2018); Johnny Manziel (2014); Brandon Weeden (2012); Brady Quinn (2007); Tim Couch (1999); Bernie Kosar (1985 supplemental); Mike Phipps (1970).
Buccaneers (five): Jameis Winston (2015); Josh Freeman (2009); Trent Dilfer (1994); Vinny Testaverde (1987); Doug Williams (1978).
Colts (six): Andrew Luck (2012); Peyton Manning (1998); Jeff George (1990); John Elway (1983); Art Schlicter (1982); Bert Jones (1973).
Cardinals (six): Kyler Murray (2019); Josh Rosen (2018); Matt Leinart (2006); Timm Rosenbach (1989 supplemental); Kelly Stouffer (1987); Steve Pisarkiewicz (1977).
Chargers (four): Justin Herbert (2020); Eli Manning (2004); Ryan Leaf (1998); Marty Domres (1969).
Chiefs (three): Patrick Mahomes (2017); Todd Blackledge (1983); Steve Fuller (1979).
Cowboys (two): Troy Aikman (1989); Steve Walsh (1989 supplemental).
Dolphins (five): Tua Tagovailoa (2020); Ryan Tannehill (2012); Dan Marino (1983); Bob Griese (1967); Rick Norton (1966).
Eagles (three): Carson Wentz (2016); Donovan McNabb (1999); John Reaves (1972);
Falcons (five): Matt Ryan (2008); Michael Vick (2001); Chris Miller (1987); Steve Bartowski (1975); Randy Johnson (1966).
49ers (three): Alex Smith (2005); Jim Druckenmiller (1997); Steve Spurrier (1967).
Giants (four): Daniel Jones (2019); Philip Rivers (2004); Dave Brown (1992 supplemental); Phil Simms (1979).
Jaguars (three): Blake Bortles (2013); Blaine Gabbert (2011); Byron Leftwich (2003).
Jets (five): Sam Darnold (2018); Mark Sanchez (2009); Chad Pennington (2000); Ken O’Brien (1983); Richard Todd (1976).
Lions (five): Matthew Stafford (2009); Joey Harrington (2002); Andre Ware (1990); Chuck Long (1986); Greg Landry (1968).
Packers (five): Jordan Love (2020); Aaron Rodgers (2005); Rich Campbell (1981); Jerry Tagge (1972); Don Horn (1967).
Panthers (two): Cam Newton (2011); Kerry Collins (1995).
Patriots (three): Drew Bledsoe (1993); Tony Eason (1983); Jim Plunkett (1971).
Raiders (three): JaMarcus Russell (2007); Todd Marinovich (1991); Marc Wilson (1980).
Rams (two): Jared Goff (2016); Sam Bradford (2010).
Ravens (three): Lamar Jackson (2018); Joe Flacco (2008); Kyle Boller (2003).
Saints (two): Dave Wilson (1981 supplemental); Archie Manning (1971).
Seahawks (two): Rick Mirer (1993); Dan McGwire (1991).
Steelers (three): Ben Roethlisberger (2004); Mark Malone (1980); Terry Bradshaw (1970).
Texans (two): Deshaun Watson (2017); David Carr (2002).
Titans (six): Marcus Mariota (2015); Jake Locker (2011); Vince Young (2006); Steve McNair (1995); Jim Everett (1986); Dan Pastorini (1971).
Vikings (four): Teddy Bridgewater (2014); Christian Ponder (2011); Daunte Culpepper (1999); Tommy Kramer (1977).
Washington (five): Dwayne Haskins (2019); Robert Griffin III (2012); Jason Campbell (2005); Patrick Ramsey (2002); Heath Shuler (1994).
submitted by FlatEarthMagellan to Commanders [link] [comments]


2020.07.26 15:57 hallach_halil Best triplets in the NFL going into 2020


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Since this was kind of a trending topic a few weeks ago and I saw a lot of media outlets/networks put out their rankings of the top triplets in the NFL, I thought I needed to put myself into the conversation and right some of wrongs that were done.
This list only includes combinations of one quarterback, running back and wide receiver each. That means no players beyond that and no consideration of the offensive scheme or play-caller, as much as that’s possible. And to lay the ground rules – all three positions are weighed equally. So just because you have one of the elite quarterbacks doesn’t necessarily put you up there and if one of those spots doesn’t have a really good player, I don’t care how great the other two are.
So with that being said, here is my list of the best trios in the league:


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1. Green Bay Packers – Aaron Rodgers, Aaron Jones & Davante Adams

I usually found this trio around five or six on most lists, but this is the way I have these guys ranked – Aaron Rodgers is my number five quarterback in the league right now, Jones has established himself as a clear top ten back – and you could argue that he is closer to five than ten – and Adams is the third-best receiver in football for me.
Rodgers might have declined a little these last few years, but a lot of that had to do with injuries in 2017 and ’18. In 2016 he led the league with 40 touchdown passes and a passer rating North of 100. Last season in Matt LaFleur’s offensive system, which is an adaption of Shanahan’s scheme, being built on the zone run game and bootlegs off that, to go with well-designed screen passes, Rodgers didn’t quite put up as explosive numbers as we are used to from him, but he still elevated a roster that I wouldn’t put in my top ten to a 13-3 record with a first-round bye in the playoffs. He led the team to an 8-1 record in one-score games and was top ten in both intended air yards (8.9) and yards to the sticks on average (+0.1), without a second receiver reaching 500 receiving yards. He might have lost some of that mobility to extend plays and is a little more hesitant to just fire the ball deep, but he is still one of the league’s best.
Jones had the breakout season I projected him to pretty much exactly a year ago. (LINK!!) He put together 1558 yards and 19 touchdowns from scrimmage, whilst becoming the Packers’ first 1000-yard rusher since Eddie Lacy back in 2014. Jones may not be very big, but he has good contact balance and ability to slither through defenses, whilst also featuring that second gear to pull away from opponents. While his production might not have been quite as consistent as it was with other guys at the position, what really stood out about the fourth-year back for Green Bay is the way he took over some games. There were five contests in which he recorded 150+ yards from scrimmage and he scored multiple touchdowns in six of them. He is a tough inside runner, has that burst to the edge and he gets involved as a downfield receiver as well.
Adams has steadily improved every single season pretty much since coming out of Fresno State in 2014. In 2018 he put up career-highs with nearly 1400 receiving yards and 13 TDs. Last season he was off to a great start once again and on pace to set new personal marks, before banging up his toe in a ten-catch, 180-yard performance against the Eagles in week four. That cost him four games and slowed him down even after that, before going off for 300 combined yards in their two playoff games. Adams is one of the best route-runners in the NFL, thanks to the way he sets up his breaks with head-fakes and body-language, but his body control and great hands also allow him to win in 50-50 ball situations and routinely keep his feet in bounds on catches along the sideline. Rodgers will once again heavily rely on #17 this season.


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2. New Orleans Saints – Drew Brees, Alvin Kamara & Michael Thomas

This is the clear second choice for me here and the gap between two and three is much bigger than the difference between one and two. There’s a strong argument that the Saints have a top three running back and wide receiver, but to me their aging quarterback drags them down just a little bit. As great as he is all-time, we are talking about the talent of these players in 2020.
Brees is the league’s all-time leader in completions, yards and touchdowns for a reason. He is like a well-oiled machine in that Sean Payton offense, with complete control at the line and rapid quickness to work through progressions. Last season he missed five games (plus) with a thumb injury, but still threw for just under 3000 yards and 27 touchdowns compared to only four picks. However, you have to consider that he has one of the all-time great offensive play-designers, a record-setting wide receiver and an elite offensive line. As much as he excels from the shoulders up, he can not really push the ball down the field anymore because of the way his arm has fallen off, indicated by the fourth-lowest number of intended air yards (6.7) among quarterback with at least 100 attempts. Brees is still one of the premiere field generals, but he’s just not as explosive a passer as some other guys on this list.
Kamara was banged up quite a bit last season as well. While he did play in all but two games and put together over 1300 scrimmage yards, according to himself, Kamara was playing “on one leg”, referring to lingering knee and ankle injuries. He still made his third straight Pro Bowl, but after two years of being part of a one-two punch with Mark Ingram, Kamara had a chance to really blow up last season. We still have to see if he can handle the full load, but there are only about four guys I would define as true workhorse backs in the league anyway, and the Saints’ young star has been incredibly effective (6.61 per touch through first two seasons). He has just stupid contact balance, is super explosive and basically uncoverable on option routes out of the backfield. Even with Latavius Murray taking away some touches, I would expect 1600-1800 scrimmage yards next season.
Thomas to me is the second-best receiver in the league behind only Julio Jones. Most people want to put him at the top of the list right now, after setting a new record in most receptions in a season (149) and leading the league in receiving yards (1725), but I don’t think he is quite as dynamic after the catch and threating the defense vertically. Still, he is such a physical, well-schooled route-runner, who routinely comes through for them on third downs and catches pretty much everything thrown his way, thanks to his strong hands and concentration (only nine drops on 274 receptions since 2018). While he can obviously win from the outside and at the catch point, you “can’t guard Mike” on slant routes or crossers and operating out of the slot. And now the Saints finally added a viable number two receiver in Emmanuel Sanders.


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3. Kansas City Chiefs – Patrick Mahomes, Clyde Edwards-Helaire & Tyreek Hill

This triplet is the only with an unproven commodity at the NFL level, but I see their rookie running back as such a perfect fit and my belief in the other two pieces is so large, that I couldn’t really put them any lower. Patrick Mahomes is pretty much in a class by himself and Tyreek Hill is the league’s premiere big-play threat.
Mahomes just earned the biggest contract for any professional athlete in team sports that we have ever seen (based on total earnings). He may be the most talented player we have ever gotten to watch and the accomplishments through his first two years are just absurd. He has combined for 76 touchdowns compared to 17 INTs, 303.6 passing yards per game, while still completing 66 percent of his passes despite averaging 8.6 yards per attempt (second to only Otto Graham all-time). He has already won a league MVP and led his team to their first Super Bowl trophy in 50 years, leading his team to three consecutive double-digit comebacks and wrapping things up with an MVP in the big game. He can make throws no other QB in the league would even attempt and the scary thing is that he can still get better.
Edwards-Helaire to me was right on the fringe of being a top 50 prospect in the draft and I had a few backs ranked ahead of him, but I predicted he would go there in my mock draft and he could make this KC offense outright unfair. At LSU last season he averaged 6.6 yards per carry and caught 55 passes, whilst reaching the end-zone 17 times. As great as Joe Burrow and all those receivers were for the Tigers, in a lot of games you could argued that this 5’7” bowling ball was the best player on the field. Not only does Edwards-Helaire have excellent vision and short-area quickness, but he routinely ran through defenders and he averaged 3.65 yards after contact. I have talked about this several times now – when you have all those guys streaking downfield for the Chiefs and then this guy catches a check-down with the mentality to go through your face, nobody will want to tackle him.
Hill came into the league as more of a gadget player, going for 860 yards and nine touchdowns on 85 touches as a rookie, in addition to three more scores in the return game. However, he has developed into an outstanding all-around receiver, highlighted by just under 1500 yards and 12 TDs through the air alone in 2018. While we don’t have any official combine numbers on him, my eyes tell me that Hill is the fastest player in the NFL and nobody puts more fear into the heart of defenses to beat them deep. Yet, he also has lightning-quick feet, has become a much more advanced route-runner and shows tremendous focus when the ball is in the air. Last year he was knocked out early in the season-opener and ended up missing four games, but when his team needed him most, he came through – catching that 44-yard bomb on third-and-long in the Super Bowl, when the 49ers seemed to have firm control over the game.
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4. Arizona Cardinals – Kyler Murray, Kenyan Drake & DeAndre Hopkins

This is the new wave of playmakers. Kyler Murray came in as the number one overall pick in last year’s draft and instantly became the man for this team. Kenyan Drake came over from Miami in the middle of last season and immediately got the majority of the touches among that group of backs and now with the trade for DeAndre Hopkins as a true number one receiver, this passing attack could go to a different level.
Murray had an easy transition from Oklahoma to another Air Raid offense under Kliff Kingsbury in Arizona and while there were some struggles early on for him personally, as well as the head coach having to make some adjustments to his system, overall the rookie QB had an excellent debut campaign. Kyler completed 64.4 percent of his passes for 3700 yards and 20 touchdowns compared to 12 INTs, to go along with another 544 yards and five scores as a runner (second to only Lamar). While the team “only” won five games, I expect their dynamic signal-caller to take a big step forward in 2020. Murray was sacked a league-high 48 times last season and his best receiver for most of his rookie campaign was a 36-year old Larry Fitzgerald. This guy has one of the top five arms in the world and the elusiveness to extend plays or make people miss for crucial first downs.
Drake was a revelation in Arizona last season, after he was acquired for a sixth-round pick mid-season. After averaging only 3.7 yards per carry through the first six games with Miami, he put together 814 yards from scrimmage on just 151 touches and eight touchdowns over the final eight weeks. While he did show some signs with the team that originally drafted him, he never got the amount of touches he deserved and he is just a perfect fit in this wide-open Cardinals offense. When they spread the field with four receivers and then run zone-read or speed option against six defenders in the box, they actually have the +1 a lot of times, and when you give Drake some space to work with, he can be a dynamic player. That also is the case on quick swing screens as an extension of the run game or getting involved on delayed screens. However, he can also make people miss in tight spaces and I would expect the 26-year old to have a monster year in his first full season in the desert.
Hopkins has been one of the elite receivers in the game for several years now. Outside of that 2016 season, when Brock Osweiler couldn’t even put the ball to where “Nuk” could make a play on it, he has averaged 100 catches for 1243 and 9.6 touchdowns since his rookie season, despite catching passes from quarterbacks like Matt Schaub, T.J. Yates, Case Keenum, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Hoyer and Ryan Mallett until the Texans finally found a franchise signal-caller. D-Hop is probably the most physical and aggressive receiver before the catch, he shows outstanding body adjustments when it’s in the air and he has the most reliable hands in the game with huge paws to just swallow the ball. Now with extra motivation after being traded away and as part of an offense that already finished top ten in pass attempts, despite having a rookie QB and limited weapons, expect this guy to ball out once again.


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5. Cleveland Browns – Baker Mayfield, Nick Chubb & Odell Beckham Jr.

Probably the most controversial pick on my list here, I still think the Browns have one of the most lethal trios in the game. Baker Mayfield had kind of a sophomore slump after showing great signs as a rookie, but Nick Chubb led the league in rushing all the way until week 17 and while he hasn’t lived up to expectations in Cleveland yet, OBJ is clearly one of the most talented receivers this league has ever seen.
Mayfield certainly showed some regression in year two, when it comes to downfield accuracy, decision-making and just taking care of the ball. If it wasn’t for Jameis Winston blowing everybody out of the water, Baker would have led the league with 21 interceptions thrown and like I mentioned recently, you can put several of those 40 sacks last season on him for bailing on the pocket or holding onto the ball too long. However, the Browns did have a horrendous duo of offensive tackles that were often more speedbumps on the way to the guy with the ball and there were a bunch of lingering injuries with this group of skill-position players. This offense should be built on the ground game, but because they fell behind in so many games, Baker finished with 33.4 pass attempts per game and there were so many occasions, where he and his receiver clearly weren’t on the same page, in terms of how to break off routes, and they let him down quite a bit with drops, as six of them directly lead to INTs.
Chubb still isn’t getting the recognition he deserves. He was the best player on this entire team and while I don’t want to take anything away from that incredible run Derrick Henry had late last season, the Browns RB deserved that rushing crown. He was up almost 100 yards on Henry, who went for over 200 in a week 17 matchup with Houston, who were sitting most of their starters. Chubb still finished with just under 1500 yards and eight TDs on right around 300 attempts and he added another 36 catches for 277 yards, while Henry was the only other player with 200+ carries to average at least 5.0 yards per attempt. Because of those two tackles I already referenced (which will be replaced by what could be one of the better duos in the league), Chubb did not nearly have as much success running off-tackle as he should have, but he is built low to the ground, with a running style that has a cumulative effect on the opposing team because of the way he loads up that shoulder, and he has much better pull-away speed than people think.
Beckham Jr. had the greatest rookie season we have ever seen from a wide receiver and he continued to wow fans over his next four years in New York City. Until he was traded to Cleveland last offseason, he was averaging 92.8 receiving yards per game – which would rank behind only Julio Jones in terms of career averages – and expectations were high for him pairing up with Baker and his former LSU teammate Jarvis. Unfortunately he never looked like the dynamic superstar we were used to from the Big Apple, with just two games of more than 100 yards. However, I think a lot of that was due to a foot injury that was bothering him all year long and missing chemistry with his new QB. While the Cleveland offense will be run-first under new head coach Kevin Stefanski, with Baker going deep off play-action or giving OBJ a chance to run after the catch on a slant on the backside of an RPO concept, we could see a lot more of those splash plays that we’re accustomed to from him.


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6. Dallas Cowboys – Dak Prescott, Ezekiel Elliott & Amari Cooper

The Cowboys are the team that brought us the original triplet in the 90s with Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith and Michael Irvin. This version of it is pretty good too, even though those guys are very expensive. Dak Prescott had a good chance of becoming the league highest-paid player until Patrick Mahomes got his monster deal, Ezekiel Elliott got the biggest contract at his position last offseason (before Christian McCaffrey recently surpassed him) and Amari Cooper’s 100 million dollars of total value is the still the highest among all receivers.
Prescott came in as a fourth-round pick in 2016 and played so well in place of Tony Romo, that the veteran QB decided to retire. I don’t think his development has gone the way people expected it to after seeing what he did as a rookie, but he just put up career-highs in passing yards (4902) and touchdowns (30), whilst picking up the second-most first-downs through the air (229) and finishing in the top five in yards per attempt (8.2). While I would classify him to have general rather than pin-point accuracy, he can get the ball anywhere on the field, extends plays and you simply can’t overlook his rushing production, with over 1200 yards and another 21 trips to the end-zone through his four years in the league. With that being said, he has benefitted from a great O-line in Dallas and a team that was built on the rushing attack. He came up small in some of their biggest games (at New England, versus Buffalo on Thanksgiving and at Philadelphia to decide the division for example). He is right on the fringe of top ten at the position for me.
Elliott had an even greater debut campaign and should have actually been the Offensive Rookie of the Year in 2016 over his teammate, after leading the league with over 1600 rushing yards. He repeated that feat two years later and got a big-time contract, which he now needs to justify. Last season I thought he didn’t quite have that breakaway gear and explosion through the hole we have gotten used to from him. But some of that might have to do with the fact he has averaged 20.8 rushing attempts per game alone and that doesn’t even include 189 more catches, plus the Cowboys’ heavy tendency of running the ball on first down, where Zeke was not effective on at all last season. He is still one of the elite pass-protecting backs in the league and if he can shed just a couple of pounds this offseason, he might look more dynamic already again. This guy is certainly one of the most complete backs we have.
Cooper was originally selected at the same spot in the draft a year before Zeke (fourth overall) by Oakland, where he had kind of an inconsistent start to his career. Since he has come over to Big D, he has put up over 1900 receiving yards and 14 TDs in 25 games. I can deal with some drop issues for this guy, but the two things that keep me from ranking him higher individually are the facts that similar to his quarterback, he hasn’t really shown up in the big matchups and he had big issues getting off press against the really physical corners like Stephon Gilmore and Jalen Ramsey last season. With that being said, he is still an exquisite router-runner, who can break the ankles of defenders with the way he sets up double-moves. 54 of his 79 catches last season resulted in a fresh set of downs and he is an amazing toe-tap artist.


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7. Minnesota Vikings – Kirk Cousins, Dalvin Cook & Adam Thielen

For the Vikings, they might be the most underrated trio we have in the league. They have a quarterback who is always right there around the top ten, until this offseason they had two guys who could be called number ones and now a running back, who finished behind only Christian McCaffrey in terms of yards from scrimmage per game.
Cousins may not ever be looked at as an elite quarterback and you could argue that he is more the result of the pieces around him, but you can’t disagree with the numbers. There have been some bad moments for him, but all he has done through his two years in Minnesota, is complete almost 70 percent of his passes for 7900 yards and 56 touchdowns. He had a lot of success last season in particular in that Kevin Stefanski/Gary Kubiak offense, where he was put on the move off bootlegs and could get his tight-ends involved or square his shoulder and go deep. He finished in the top six in touchdown percentage (5.9%), average yards per attempt (8.2) and passer rating (107.4), while also leading the league in time to throw (3.01 seconds), killing some of the stereotypes of not been as much of a vertical passer. He still has that stigma around him when it comes to primetime games, but with a big playoff victory in New Orleans, he has given himself some room to breathe.
Cook was on an incredible pace last season, until he got knocked out in week 15 with a shoulder injury, averaging 118 yards and just under one touchdown per game up to that point. He would return for their Wildcard Round game in New Orleans and go for 130 yards from scrimmage and reach the end-zone twice in an upset victory, before the 49ers put the clamps on that entire Vikings squad the following week. Dalvin is a homerun threat from the running back position, who does an excellent job pressing the front-side on those zone run plays and making a fluid cutback to take advantage of those lanes opening up inside once he gets around the edge a few times early on. He was also highly effective on screen plays last season and was the main reason their play-action was as effective as it was.
Thielen to me was always right behind his now-former teammate Stefon Diggs, but the guy who still remains with the Vikings has mostly been more productive and more trusted by his quarterback during their time there. I still remember watching Thielen cover and return kicks as an unknown player, who got his shot after a local tryout, in preseason of 2014. He has come incredibly far to someone who recorded 2790 yards and 13 TDs in 2017 and ’18 combined. I thought Thielen was actually a little overhyped two years ago, when he started the season with an impressive eight straight 100-yard games, until he began facing some of the better corners in the league, but because he was banged up for most of last season, he is actually being undervalued right now and will be a frequent target for me in fantasy football. Thielen is a very patient and deceptive route-runner, plus he routinely makes the tough catches downfield. It will be interesting to see how the Vikes use him and rookie Justin Jefferson, since both to me are at their best in the slot, but could have interchangeable roles.


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8. Tennessee Titans – Ryan Tannehill, Derrick Henry & A.J. Brown

If you had put this trio up here a year ago, most people would have probably laughed at you. Derrick Henry did look like a monster down the stretch in 2018, but Ryan Tannehill was mostly referred to as a disappointing draft pick and Brown was selected just outside the top 50 and labelled as a slot receiver only. However, these guys were a huge part in leading Tennessee to their first AFC Championship game appearance since 2002.
Tannehill is a former top ten pick from the 2012 draft, who six weeks into last season, when taking over for Marcus Mariota, started turning this Titans squad and his career around. Completing 70.3 percent of his passes for 22 touchdowns compared to six INTs and leading the team to 7-3 record in the regular season is already pretty great, but the reigning Comeback Player of the Year was one of the best across pretty much all of the advanced stats. He finished third in both average intended air yards (9.6) and yards beyond the sticks (0.6) – both behind only Matt Stafford and Jameis Winston. He also had the second-highest touchdown percentage behind only Lamar Jackson (7.7) and a full yard more per attempt than any other QB in the league, to along with the top passer-rating (117.6). In addition to that, Tannehill pulled the ball on a couple of zone read plays or just took off for big conversions. Of his 43 carries last season, 14 went for first downs and he finished four of them in the end-zone. The only question now – Did he just catch lightning in a bottle for one year on a team with a great rushing attack?
Henry is the league’s reigning rushing leader with 1540 yards and he tied for a league-high 16 touchdowns, giving him an average 5.1 yards per attempt and almost 1000 of his rushing yards came after contact. While a 250-pound banger like that puts fear in the heart of defenders just because of what a freight train he is coming right at them, the speed for a guy his size is just ridiculous. The Titans run a lot of inside and outside zone, where Henry can build up momentum and as long as you don’t force him to stop his feet and change directions in the backfield, he is a load to bring down. But if you allow him to get to the edge, he has those long arms to keep defenders away from his body and once he gets past the second level of the defense, opposing safeties better be willing to stick their face in the fan and be able to keep up with those long strides.
Brown was only a rookie last season, but immediately became the team’s number one receiver over a slightly older top five pick in Corey Davis. The former Ole Miss pass-catcher hauled in 52 balls for 1051 yards and eight touchdowns, averaging 20.2 yards per grab and picking up 39 first downs on the way. All of that despite seeing only 84 targets come his direction. Comparing that to a guy like Alshon Jeffery of the Eagles, with similar measurements, who saw 73 targets, he didn’t even crack the 500-yard mark. Brown has such a thick, strong build and not only is he physical with the ball in his hands, but he also showed the ability to rip off big plays by running away from defenders on slants over the middle or tracking the deep ball, to go along with some jet sweeps. He has already proven that he can succeed inside and out and should improve his production with more chances.


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9. Seattle Seahawks – Russell Wilson, Chris Carson & D.K. Metcalf

This group from the Pacific Northwest is somewhat carried by their quarterback, but they have a running back who just continues to produce no matter how much people want to doubt and a potential superstar in the making at the wide receiver position. When the quarterback fakes the hand-off and then throws the ball deep to his young wideout, it creates major issues for opponents.
Wilson to me is the second-best quarterback in the league and if I needed one score at the end of the game, I want the ball in that guy’s hands. Even if you take away those three years to start off his career, when the Legion of Boom got all the credit and Russ was quietly getting the job done as a super-effective player – over these last five seasons, he has averaged 3957 passing yards and 31 touchdowns compared to 8.4 interceptions. That doesn’t even include well over 2000 yards and eight more scores on the ground. Wilson is an incredible deep-ball thrower on those rainbow passes right into the bread-basket of his receivers, indicated by an average of 54.2 passes of 20+ yards over that same stretch. Most impressively, he has done all of that despite playing behind a top bottom-ten offensive line pretty much throughout his career and his own coaching staff taking the ball out of his hands, as one of the most run-heavy teams with little chances to throw the ball on first downs. Russ constantly extends plays and wills his team to victory, having finished above .500 every single season of his career.
Carson is a guy who people constantly believe will be replaced, especially after selecting Rashaad Penny in the first round of the draft a couple of years ago, but somehow he always shoulders the majority of the load. Over these last two seasons as a starter in Seattle, he has put up just over 2800 yards and 18 touchdowns, despite missing three combined games. Since 2018, Nick Chubb is the only running back with more missed tackles forced (110 over 107) and 55.8 percent of Carson’s rushing yards have come after contact, while gaining 29 yards more after the catch than his receiving total shows. I don’t think anybody in the league runs harder than this guy and not even his own team could bench him, if they wanted to. The only issue with Carson has been fumbles, since he has put the ball on the ground ten times combined over these last two years.
Metcalf is the “other” Ole Miss receiver, who actually went a little later than his teammate in the second round of last year’s draft, but people just overthought. I had him as my number one receiver available because of the freakish size, speed and physicality he presented. People got way too hung up with his poor time in the three-cone drill and the fact he ran a very limited route-tree in college. While he did mostly run slants, hitches and fade routes as a rookie and will probably never run too many intricate routes down the field, he is very productive on those and ran some double-moves later on in the season. While he did have his struggles early on with drops and fumbled three times, he also showed improvements with setting up his routes and already earned the trust from his quarterback to win one-on-one or make the proper adjustments on the scramble drill. Metcalf finished the season by breaking the rookie receiving record in their Wildcard game against the Eagles, when he went for 160 yards. I could have easily chosen Tyler Lockett here as well, but D.K. could be nightmare to cover for years to come.


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10. Tampa Bay Buccaneers – Tom Brady, Ronald Jones II & Mike Evans

And the final trio on this list starts with a quarterback, who after two decades in New England has now joined a new team. Tom Brady is coming to Tampa to pair up with probably the best receiving duo in the league today in Mike Evans and Chris Godwin, plus a three-headed monster at tight-end. The running back room still has to settle the split of their workload, but to me RoJo is still their top guy.
Brady has a resume that nobody in NFL history can match – second to only Drew Brees in both passing yards and touchdowns, 14-time Pro Bowler, three league MVPs and the six rings of course – and while his numbers have gone down these last two seasons, because of all the young phenoms we have today, people seem to forget that he led the league in touchdown passes and was named MVP in 2017 only. I saw a little tendency to not be willing to stand in there and take some hits in order to make those big-time throws last season – which is why I will be interested to see how much more of the quick game Bruce Arians will incorporate into his vertical passing attack – but at 43 years old, Brady’s arm isn’t much worse than it was 20 years ago. He is still close to a pin-point thrower in-between the numbers, plays with a tremendous fire and has come up clutch when his team needed him most over and over again.
Jones II had an unbelievable junior season at USC, when he averaged 5.9 yards per carry and 13.4 yards per reception, on his way to over 1700 scrimmage yards and 20 touchdowns. His rookie season in the NFL was highly disappointing, touching the ball only 30 times and averaging less than two yards per carry in the nine games he played. Last year he looked a lot better and started the final nine games, touching the ball over 200 times overall for more than 1000 yards and six TDs, while more than doubling his yards per rush attempts (4.2) and catching 31 passes. While I don’t the same kind of dynamic runner, in terms of making people miss and ripping off long runs, I think he has become a much tougher ball-carrier in-between the tackles and that production as a receiver will be crucial as Brady comes in, who has completed 120+ passes to his backs in each of the last three seasons.
Evans got the slight nod over Chris Godwin, simply because he has done it for a longer period of time and is a little more of a downfield weapon. Evans is now the only receiver in NFL history to start out his career with six consecutive seasons of 1000+ receiving yards. His 80.7 receiving yards per game is more than Jerry Rice, Randy Moss or T.O. have put up for their respective careers and he has scored 49 touchdowns in 90 games so far. Big Mike is a dominant receiver when the ball is in the air of course, but he also gets in and out of his breaks much better than any 6’5”, 230-pound receiver I have seen and what I really appreciate about him, is the fact he gets after defenders as a blocker. And since we’re at comparisons right now, Evans’ 17.5 yards per grab over the last two seasons is 1.5 yards better than what Tyreek Hill has done over that stretch with the most explosive deep-ball thrower in the league.


Just missed the cut:

Atlanta Falcons – Matt Ryan, Todd Gurley & Julio Jones
Detroit Lions – Matthew Stafford, D’Andre Swift & Kenny Golladay
Pittsburgh Steelers – Ben Roethlisberger, James Conner & Juju Smith-Schuster

If you enjoyed this content, I would really appreciate if you could visit the original piece - https://halilsrealfootballtalk.com/2020/07/21/best-triplets-in-the-nfl-going-into-2020/
You can also listen to my breakdown on Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn4020ehHNQ
submitted by hallach_halil to nfl [link] [comments]


2019.11.21 21:54 JayBattleDuty which Turkey Bowl player should i get?

QB: PU Troy Aikman WR: Randy Moss, Torry Holt, and TO TE: 90 George Kittle, and Darren Waller LG: TB Andrew Norwell LOLB: Khalil Mack SS: Pat tillman CB: Deion, Denzel ward, and Ramsey LE: FL Reggie White
submitted by JayBattleDuty to MaddenUltimateTeam [link] [comments]


2019.04.19 20:39 kovaka1 [OC] Using college stats to predict draft QBs NFL stats and find professional counterparts

First, I just want to say. I am no expert. I wasn't even especially rigorous. This is just fun and probably not a very good way to predict anything. However, I think I manage to get some interesting results. Including that this model really just fell in love with Gardner Minshew.
For those of you unfamiliar with linear regression, you might want to watch this Khan Academy video to get an idea of how I did this.
I wanted to build a model that could take a quarterbacks college stats and try to predict what kind of statistical output they would have in the pros. As an added bonus, once I projected them in the pros, I tried to figure out what pro quarterbacks had similar numbers to their projections.
The first thing I did was decide what statistics I wanted to use to make my model. I decided to not use any volume stats and only use efficiency stats. I did not want to favor good QBs that had been in the NFL a long time or bad ones that managed to stick around. And because this draft features Kyler Murray, you bet I wanted to try to throw in some rushing statistics too.
I decided to build a model using a QB college stats: * Games played in college * Completion % * TD% * INT% * Yards / Attempt * Yards / Game * Rushing Yards / Attempt * Rush Yards / Game * Rush Attempts / Game
To predict these stats in the NFL: * Completion % * TD% * INT% * Yards / Attempt * Yards / Game * Rushing Yards / Attempt * Rush Yards / Game * Rush Attempts / Game
Then I went to acquire both professional and college statistics on Quarterbacks. Sports reference custom leader boards for college football only went to 2000, so anyone who entered the NFL before then was not used to build the model. So far as active quarterbacks, it only excludes Tom Brady and Drew Brees who are such freaks they probably shouldn't be included anyway. I also did not want to include any quarterbacks who were rookies last year. For instance, I did not think Josh Rosen's numbers last really represent the kind of Pro quarterback he will eventually become.
Then I took all of the quarterbacks from this upcoming draft, and fed their career stats through the model I had created. This is a projection of what their pro stats might look like based upon what they were able to produce in college. I sorted by TD% because scoring points is how you win, and you play to win the game.

Using Career Stats

Stat Projections
Player Cmp% TD% INT% Yds/Att Yds/Game Rush Yds/Att Rush Yds/Game Rush Att/Game
Kyler Murray 58.76 4.55 3.28 7.1 186.54 5.53 23.53 4.34
Ryan Finley 61.69 3.86 3.05 6.96 201.58 3.56 7.12 1.94
Drew Lock 57.92 3.82 3.35 6.59 179.31 2.95 7.81 1.99
Tyree Jackson 58.08 3.81 2.91 6.52 178.49 3.8 11.29 2.55
Gardner Minshew 61.15 3.8 2.63 6.85 212.9 2.73 4.47 1.63
Dwayne Haskins 59.62 3.74 2.67 6.75 200.78 3.71 12.56 3.
Will Grier 58.03 3.67 3.48 6.55 182.33 3.19 8.78 2.37
Jake Browning 60.01 3.62 3.41 6.85 173.99 3.48 8.69 2.17
Daniel Jones 59.69 3.54 2.72 6.65 161.9 4.89 14.38 2.94
Jordan Ta'amu 59.64 3.52 3.12 6.52 175.78 4.39 12.7 2.91
Trace McSorley 58.15 3.51 2.94 6.54 151.26 4.65 16.68 3.27
Clayton Thorson 59.86 3.44 3.22 6.71 161.23 3.72 7.48 1.92
Brett Rypien 60.3 3.42 3.21 6.71 180.2 2.67 4.8 1.61
Jarrett Stidham 60.11 3.25 2.68 6.61 172.45 3.65 10.3 2.54
Kyle Shurmur 57.85 2.87 3.01 6.31 144.52 1.67 1.57 1.1
You'll notice that Kyler Murray shows up at the top with a 4.55% Touchdown percentage. That actually is not amazing and would have put him about around 20th in 2018. Just below Nick Mullens and above Dak Prescott. I think just kind of shows how many quarterbacks can put up great numbers in college and then totally flop in the NFL. I suspect any model that looks at the numbers is just going to learn that basically all quarterbacks suck.
Then after I had projected their NFL stats, I compared their projections to NFL quarterbacks who played after the year 1990. This does not have the same restrictions as the QBs used to build the model because I wasn't using their college stats in any way. Disclaimer, if you see someone and you think aren't they from the 80s? (Such as Jim McMahon who does appear here), you're looking at the post-1990 version of them.
For people who are nerds: To make these comparisons, I normalized everyone's stats and took the 2-norm to figure distances.
QB Comparisons
QB Cmp 1 Cmp 2 Cmp 3 Cmp 4 Cmp 5
Kyler Murray Randall Cunningham Steve McNair Doug Flutie Donovan McNabb David Garrard
Ryan Finley Matt Hasselbeck Jon Kitna Troy Aikman* Case Keenum Trevor Siemian
Drew Lock Boomer Esiason Byron Leftwich Mark Sanchez Brandon Weeden Kevin Kolb
Tyree Jackson Matt Cassel Josh McCown Byron Leftwich Jeff Hostetler Mark Brunell
Gardner Minshew Troy Aikman* Kyle Orton Joe Flacco Trevor Siemian Case Keenum
Dwayne Haskins Josh McCown Jason Campbell Rich Gannon John Elway* Trevor Siemian
Will Grier Mark Sanchez Matt Cassel Byron Leftwich Brandon Weeden Boomer Esiason
Jake Browning Kevin Kolb Matt Hasselbeck Matt Cassel Josh McCown Brandon Weeden
Daniel Jones Jim Harbaugh Jason Campbell Mark Brunell Josh McCown Jeff Hostetler
Jordan Ta'amu Josh McCown Jim Harbaugh Colt McCoy Matt Cassel Jason Campbell
Trace McSorley Jim Harbaugh David Carr Christian Ponder Jeff Hostetler Shaun King
Clayton Thorson Kevin Kolb Matt Cassel Trent Edwards Matt Hasselbeck Brandon Weeden
Brett Rypien Chad Henne Austin Davis Brad Johnson Brandon Weeden Matt Hasselbeck
Jarrett Stidham Matt Cassel Josh McCown Colt McCoy Byron Leftwich Trent Edwards
Kyle Shurmur Chris Simms Matt Leinart Bernie Kosar Ken O'Brien Steve Bono
As a bonus, I ran all of the draft Qbs through the model using only their 2018. This produced something that was maybe a bit optimistic. It absolutely loved Gardner Minshew. Many of you probably do not know Gardner Minshew because he is at the bottom of most draft boards. He's still above Jordan Ta'amu who still sucked with maybe the 2nd best WR corp in college football. However, Minshew had a monster senior season after a few years of being absolutely pedestrian. He would probably be a lot higher on draft boards, but if you look at his tape you'll notice his throwing mechanics are actually god awful and he has a wobbly wet noodle arm. That combined with he got the luxury of playing in an Air Raid offense his last year in college.

Using 2018 Season Stats

Stat Projections
Player Cmp% TD% INT% Yds/Att Yds/Game Rush Yds/Att Rush Yds/Game Rush Att/Game
Kyler Murray 57.76 4.53 2.97 6.85 193.1 5.26 25.16 4.57
Gardner Minshew 62.75 4.33 2.43 7.05 255.92 3.41 6.11 1.99
Drew Lock 59.46 3.99 2.54 6.63 216.2 3.46 9.65 2.52
Ryan Finley 60.91 3.8 3.04 6.8 209.69 2.85 4.12 1.68
Dwayne Haskins 59.11 3.8 2.81 6.59 212.04 3.35 10. 2.68
Tyree Jackson 56.03 3.72 3.05 6.25 177.12 3.04 9.01 2.39
Daniel Jones 58.27 3.52 2.53 6.4 173.24 4.39 13.26 2.99
Jordan Ta'amu 59.56 3.5 3.02 6.42 180.5 4.3 11.85 2.81
Jake Browning 60.34 3.47 3.08 6.65 177.61 3.95 8.78 2.38
Trace McSorley 56.34 3.23 2.03 6.08 136.81 4.83 19.35 3.68
Brett Rypien 59.51 3.21 2.65 6.41 186.28 3.41 8.17 2.43
Will Grier 56.89 3.09 3.33 6.15 172.49 2.01 4.28 1.88
Clayton Thorson 58.92 2.93 3.2 6.34 153.59 2.9 2.48 1.48
Kyle Shurmur 58.61 2.9 2.33 6.24 173.78 1.78 2.69 1.51
Jarrett Stidham 58.85 2.89 2.17 6.17 172.84 2.95 6.85 2.19
QB Comparisons
QB Cmp 1 Cmp 2 Cmp 3 Cmp 4 Cmp 5
Kyler Murray Randall Cunningham Steve McNair Doug Flutie Donovan McNabb David Garrard
Gardner Minshew Matthew Stafford Joe Montana* Derek Carr Warren Moon* Brett Favre*
Drew Lock Trevor Siemian Case Keenum Nick Foles Joe Montana* Jon Kitna
Ryan Finley Troy Aikman* Kyle Orton Trevor Siemian Jon Kitna Matt Hasselbeck
Dwayne Haskins Trevor Siemian Jon Kitna Byron Leftwich Sam Darnold Case Keenum
Tyree Jackson Byron Leftwich Tony Banks Blaine Gabbert Matt Cassel Mark Sanchez
Daniel Jones Jim Harbaugh Jason Campbell Josh McCown Mark Brunell Matt Cassel
Jordan Ta'amu Josh McCown Matt Cassel Jason Campbell Colt McCoy David Carr
Jake Browning Josh McCown Matt Cassel Trent Edwards Tim Couch Kevin Kolb
Trace McSorley Johnny Manziel Shaun King Jim Harbaugh Kordell Stewart David Carr
Brett Rypien Byron Leftwich Brandon Weeden Chad Henne Matt Cassel Brock Osweiler
Will Grier Joey Harrington Kerry Collins Patrick Ramsey Chad Henne A.J. Feeley
Clayton Thorson Brock Osweiler Bernie Kosar Ken O'Brien Jim McMahon Chad Henne
Kyle Shurmur Neil O'Donnell Bernie Kosar Ken O'Brien Brock Osweiler Chad Henne
Jarrett Stidham Brock Osweiler Byron Leftwich Chad Henne Brandon Weeden Ken O'Brien
Overall, I would say you should not make your draft grades based upon stats. You would probably draft Gardner Minshew hoping to get Matthew Stafford but then realize in camp that Minshew has the arm of 2015 playoffs Peyton Manning but actually still worse. And for what it's worth, I don't like Daniel Jones so my code must have somehow picked that up, because it kind of hates Daniel Jones too.
Please tell me where I might have gone wrong and also why you think Will Grier will actually be better than Joey Harrington.
submitted by kovaka1 to nfl [link] [comments]


2018.11.06 18:40 GragasBodySlam It's now time for Jerry to wake up

All night last night Witten who isn't very vocal on monday night football took it upon himself all night to call out how bad our offense is and how long it takes for the playbook to open up. Now you have Troy Aikman telling the cowboys to blow it up and start over. Hall of famers are now attacking what you decided to string around for 8 years. On a night where Jerrys world was easily the loudest it's ever been you allowed a team to do absolutely nothing and pretty much end our season at the half way point. We have no first round pick to look forward to and are probably in the worst position i have ever seen the cowboys. Our 4-12 year was excusable because of all the injuries but outside of Frederick there is absolutely no reason why our team is in this position. You have a borderline elite defense who is still giving up under 20 points a game while being on the field all game every game. You drafted a RB over Ramsey who your team decided to only use 6 times in the second half in a game that went into halftime 14-14. How much longer do you think this fan base is going to pack your seats and buy your merchandise?
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2018.06.20 20:07 PandaSoap Will the 2016 Draft be looked at like 1989 in 20 years?

1989 first 5: Aikman, Manderich, B. Sanders, Thomas, D. Sanders.
2016 first 5: Goff, Wentz, Bosa, Elliot, Ramsey.
So I'm asking do you think the 2016 top 5 will have similar careers to the 89 first 5.
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2018.04.14 21:28 JaguarGator9 [OC] How do QBs who fall below the 58.5% magic number AND the 7.3 YPA magic number fare in the NFL?

I’ve done a few posts on magic numbers for QBs that pretty much tell you who to avoid, no matter what. While these magic numbers don’t tell you who is going to be a good QB, these magic numbers do tell you who is going to be a bad one. A 68% completion percentage in college is good, but it might not translate to the NFL level. A 54% completion percentage, on the other hand, is almost guaranteed failure at the NFL level.
Last year, I made a post on why 58.5% is a magic number for QBs. If a QB completes 58.5% of their passes or worse, they’re likely going to be terrible in the NFL. Earlier this year, I made a post on why 7.3 YPA is a magic number for QBs. If a QB averages 7.3 yards per attempt or worse, they’re likely going to be terrible in the NFL. The sample sizes are large enough to back both of these up, especially in recent memory.
But what happens when you combine those numbers? If a QB falls below the 58.5% magic number AND falls below the 7.3 YPA magic number, how good will that QB be? Let’s find out.
Part I: The Formula
I went back a long time for this one. I looked at every NFL Draft since 1995, when the Carolina Panthers and Jacksonville Jaguars joined the league. As established in previous posts, the magic number I came up with is 58.5% and 7.3 YPA. If a QB is above at least one of these numbers, they are not on the list. If a QB is below both of these numbers, they are on this list, and in all likelihood, will not pan out.
I took a look at a few things when creating this list:
So, with that being said, what QBs from 1995-on ended up fulfilling this criteria?
Part II: The Historic List
I am only counting the completion percentage and yards per attempt in that QB’s final season. And again, the QB has to meet both of these magic numbers in order to qualify.
Year of Draft QB College Final Year Completion Percentage Final Year Yards Per Attempt Draft Result
2017 CJ Beathard Iowa 56.5% 6.4 YPA R3, P104- San Francisco Struggled massively in his rookie season, completing just 54.9% of his passes with a 69.2 passer rating and more interceptions (6) than touchdowns (4)
2016 Christian Hackenberg Penn State 53.5% 7.0 YPA R2, P51- NY Jets Has yet to throw a pass in the NFL. Likely will never throw a regular season pass for the Jets, especially after their recent trade up for a QB and their signings of Bridgewater and McCown
2015 Trevor Siemian Northwestern 58.2% 5.6 YPA R7, P250- Denver Solid 2016 campaign, but struggled in 2017, throwing more interceptions (14) than touchdowns (12), which led to him being traded to Minnesota for almost nothing
2014 Logan Thomas Virginia Tech 56.5% 7.2 YPA R4, P120- Arizona First NFL pass went for a touchdown. After that, he missed 8 straight passes, finishing his QB career going 1-for-9. Got released by the team that drafted him after just one season, and spent last season with Buffalo as a tight end.
2013 BJ Daniels South Florida 56.9% 7.2 YPA R7, P237- San Francisco Never made the active roster with the 49ers, getting cut less than a month into the season. Spent time with the Houston Texans, where he went 1-for-2 with 7 yards, along with some playing as a wide receiver
2012 Ryan Lindley San Diego State 53% 7.1 YPA R6, P185- Arizona Currently in the CFL after an abysmal NFL career. Finished his NFL career with 3 touchdowns and 11 interceptions, and one of the worst rookie seasons for a QB of all-time (0 touchdowns and 7 interceptions)
2011 Jake Locker Washington 55.4% 6.8 YPA R1, P8- Tennessee Threw more interceptions than touchdowns in 2 out of 4 seasons. Completed just 57.5% of his passes at the NFL level, and never had a season with 200+ YPG
2011 Nathan Enderle Idaho 56.7% 6.9 YPA R5, P160- Chicago Never threw a pass in his NFL career, and got cut by the Bears after just one season
2010 Jonathan Crompton Tennessee 58.3% 7.3 YPA R5, P168- San Diego Never made the active roster, never threw a pass, and got cut by the Chargers in the preseason of his rookie season
2008 Chad Henne Michigan 58.3% 7.0 YPA R2, P57- Miami Threw more interceptions (37) than touchdowns (31) in his career with the Dolphins. Spent 6 seasons as the backup for the Jaguars, where he lost a QB competition against Blaine Gabbert. Twice.
2008 Kevin O’Connell San Diego State 58.5% 7.0 YPA R3, P94- New England Threw for 23 yards in his entire NFL career. Cut by the Patriots after just one season
2008 Matt Flynn LSU 56.3% 6.7 YPA R7, P209- Green Bay Worked out as a backup QB for the Packers, including his memorable day at the end of the 2011 season against Detroit (480 yards, 6 touchdowns). As a starter, though… not so much
2007 Isaiah Stanback Washington 53.4% 7.0 YPA R4, P103- Dallas Converted to WR, and never threw a pass in the NFL. As a receiver, he caught just 6 passes in his entire career
2004 Craig Krenzel Ohio State 55% 7.3 YPA R5, P148- Chicago Threw more interceptions (6) than touchdowns (3) over his NFL career, and got cut by the Bears after two seasons. Finished his career with an abysmal passer rating of 52.5
2004 Cody Pickett Washington 56.6% 6.7 YPA R7, P217- San Francisco Finished his NFL career with 195 passing yards, 0 touchdowns, 4 interceptions, and a passer rating of 16.4. Spiking the ball into the ground on every play would result in a better career passer rating than what Pickett had
2004 Casey Bramlet Wyoming 56.7% 7.1 YPA R7, P218- Cincinnati Never played a down in the NFL, and got cut by the Bengals after just one season
2003 Kyle Boller California 53.4% 6.7 YPA R1, P19- Baltimore I mentioned it in last year’s post, but it baffles me how a QB who had never completed more than 50% of his passes before his senior year got drafted (38.6% freshman year, 46.7% sophomore year, 49.3% junior year). Boller might be the biggest draft bust in franchise history, and he finished his NFL career with more interceptions than touchdowns
2003 Rex Grossman Florida 57.1% 6.8 YPA R1, P22- Chicago Did make it to a Super Bowl as a starting QB, though he might be the worst QB to ever make it. Finished his career with more interceptions than touchdowns, and only once in his six seasons with the Bears did he have at least 200 yards per game. Aside from the 2006 season, he never started 50% of Chicago’s games in a single season
2003 Dave Ragone Louisville 53.7% 6.5 YPA R3, P88- Houston Played in 2 games over his NFL career, where he threw for just 135 yards, completed 50% of his passes, didn’t throw a touchdown, threw 1 interception, lost both games, and had a passer rating of 47.4
2003 Seneca Wallace Iowa State 55.1% 7.3 YPA R4, P110- Seattle Decent backup for a long time for Seattle, though he struggled in the win/loss column (6-16 record). Finished his career with 31 touchdowns and 19 interceptions. Not starter material, but a more than serviceable backup for much of the second half of the 2000s
2003 Brian St. Pierre Boston College 58.2% 7.3 YPA R5, P163- Pittsburgh Threw just one pass for the Steelers (incomplete). Ended up starting a game with Carolina all the way in 2010, where he threw 2 interceptions. Finished his career with a poor passer rating of 45.6, completing less than half (45.5%) of his passes
2003 Brooks Bollinger Wisconsin 53.5% 7.2 YPA R6, P200- NY Jets As the starting QB of the Jets in 2005, went just 2-7. Finished his career with the Jets completing just 56.4% of his passes and with a 73.0 passer rating. Finished his NFL career with the same number of touchdowns (9) as interceptions
2003 Gibran Hamdan Indiana 51.9% 7.2 YPA R7, P232- Washington The man threw 9 touchdowns and 14 interceptions in his final season at Indiana; in his previous 2 seasons, he was 3-for-6. Somehow, Washington thought that was NFL worthy. Shocker- it didn’t work out. He finished his career with 7 yards, going 1-for-2
2002 Patrick Ramsey Tulane 57.1% 6.6 YPA R1, P32- Washington Over his entire NFL career, had just 1 season with more than 2,000 yards (2003). Completed just 55.7% of his passes over his career with Washington, and only had one season where he started at least 50% of the games
2001 Quincy Carter Georgia 49.7% 6.8 YPA R2, P53- Dallas Looking to find Troy Aikman’s successor, the Cowboys failed miserably with this draft pick. Drafting someone that completed less than half of his passes in his final season is usually a bad idea, as was the case here. Carter finished his career in Dallas with more interceptions (36) than touchdowns (29), and a pretty poor completion percentage of 56.2%. His passer rating in Dallas was just 70.
2001 Marques Tuiasosopo Washington 52.6% 6.6 YPA R2, P59- Oakland Finished his career with just 2 touchdowns and 7 interceptions, never winning a game and compiling a passer rating of 48.1. Took him until the 2005 season to throw his first touchdown pass
2001 Sage Rosenfels Iowa State 51.7% 6.9 YPA R4, P109- Washington I’m noticing a trend here with Washington drafting QBs in the early 2000s that fell below these magic numbers. In fact, Rosenfels never threw a pass with Washington, and was traded to Miami one year later for a seventh round pick. Didn’t necessarily have an awful NFL career, but he will forever be known for the Rosencopter
2001 Mike McMahon Rutgers 49.7% 6.3 YPA R5, P149- Detroit If a QB completes less than 50% of his passes in his final 2 seasons, and in his final 2 seasons, throws for more interceptions (24) than touchdowns (23), apparently according to Detroit, you should draft him. It didn’t work out; his Lions’ career consisted of him completing just 43.8% of his passes, going 1-6, having a passer rating of 55, and throwing more interceptions (13) than touchdowns (10)
2001 AJ Feely Oregon 38.5% 6.7 YPA R5, P155- Philadelphia It should be noted that Feely was a backup during his final season at Oregon. He most recently played in the NFL in 2011, but he finished his career with more interceptions (32) than touchdowns (28), and had a passer rating below 70
2001 Josh Booty LSU 50% 7.3 YPA R6, P172- Seattle The Florida Marlins drafted him fifth overall in the 1994 MLB Draft, and offered him $1.6 million if he stopped playing football. He decided to play football. It didn’t work. He never played a down in the NFL
1999 Brock Huard Washington 53.3% 6.1 YPA R3, P77- Seattle Never won a game in his NFL career, going 0-4. Completed just 55.8% of his passes in his time with Seattle, and finished his career with just 4 touchdown passes
1997 Wally Richardson Penn State 52% 6.2 YPA R7, P234- Baltimore Threw for 1 yard in his entire NFL career, going 1-for-2 in the 1998 season with the Baltimore Ravens
1996 Spence Fischer Duke 58.4% 6.1 YPA R6, P203- Pittsburgh Never appeared in a regular season game
Part III: The Analysis
Since the 1995 NFL Draft, there have been 33 quarterbacks that got drafted that fell below both of these magic numbers simultaneously. I was very surprised to see how few QBs from the late 90s fell below these numbers, especially when compared to the plethora of QBs in the early 2000s that fell below both of the numbers. However, of the 33 quarterbacks on the list, none of them turned out to be anything more than a backup. If I had to rank the quarterbacks, you’re looking at a top five, in no particular order, of Jake Locker, AJ Feely, Seneca Wallace, Matt Flynn, and Rex Grossman, with Trevor Siemian, Chad Henne, and Quincy Carter on the outside looking in. Any way you stack it, that’s bad.
But what about first round quarterbacks? Some might say it’s unfair to harshly judge those quarterbacks picked on the third day, so let’s just narrow it down to the first round quarterbacks. In that list, you’ve got Jake Locker, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, and Patrick Ramsey. All four of those picks were busts. Even before Locker’s career got riddled with injuries, he was never going to be anything more than a below average quarterback.
Let’s look at day two. In the second round, there have been four quarterbacks taken since 1995 to fall below these numbers. Three of them (Chad Henne, Quincy Carter, Marques Tuiasosopo) finished their careers with more interceptions than touchdowns. The only one that hasn’t? Christian Hackenberg, who has yet to throw a pass and has been a massive bust for the Jets. And, in the third round, none of the four quarterbacks taken (CJ Beathard, Kevin O’Connell, Dave Ragone, Brock Huard) did anything in the NFL. Beathard is the only one of those four QBs to start and win a game.
In fact, let’s take it back a bit further. When you draft a QB in the first three rounds, most of the time, you expect that QB to be a starter, or at the very least, be pushing someone for the starting job. Unless you’ve got an aging QB approaching retirement, you don’t draft a QB that high if you’re not going to intend on playing him. So, with that being said, let’s look at every QB taken in the first three rounds of the draft since 1984, and see how they fared in the NFL. If anything from round 4-on is just an educated guess, then let’s narrow it down to the top three rounds where there were actual expectations. Note that I am not including the supplemental draft; for that reason, Dave Brown of the NY Giants does not make the list (although his career was pretty poor, with more interceptions (58) than touchdowns (44)).
Year of Draft QB College Final Year Completion Percentage Final Year Yards Per Attempt Draft Result
1993 Billy Joe Hobert Washington 52.2% 5.3 YPA R3, P58- LA Raiders Never won a game with the Raiders, going 0-5. Finished his career with more interceptions (25) than touchdowns (23)
1992 David Klingler Houston 55.9% 6.8 YPA R1, P6- Cincinnati One of the biggest busts in the history of the Cincinnati Bengals. Finished his career with a 4-20 record, throwing 16 touchdowns and 22 interceptions, and never throwing for more than 2,000 yards in any season
1991 Brett Favre Southern Miss 54.5% 5.7 YPA R2, P33- Atlanta This is an interesting one to judge. On one hand, Favre was a massive bust for the Falcons. He finished his career with Atlanta going 0-for-4 with 2 interceptions and a passer rating of 0.0. He was atrocious with the Falcons, and was a bust. On the other hand, when he went to Green Bay, he set the then-touchdowns record and became a first ballot Hall of Fame quarterback. So depending on your parameters, either this trend continues, or the trend ends here. If we’re judging based on what they did with their team, then yes, Favre is a bust. If we’re judging based on their entire career, then obviously, this breaks the trend. You place the goalposts however you wish with this one. Personally, even though Reggie Nelson became a great safety in the first half of the 2010s, I consider him a bust, since he was garbage with the Jaguars and didn’t know how to tackle or cover. Chalk this one up as a question mark
1988 Tom Tupa Ohio State 55.4% 7.4 YPA R3, P68- Phoenix This is another interesting one to judge. As a QB, he was atrocious; he finished his career with 12 touchdowns and 25 interceptions, and in his time with the Phoenix Cardinals, threw just 9 touchdowns and 22 interceptions, with a 59.5 passer rating. However, as a punter, he was pretty good, lasting until 2004, and even making the Pro Bowl in 1999. With Phoenix, though, he was used primarily as a quarterback (he only punted 6 times), so he was a massive bust for the Cardinals
1988 Chris Chandler Washington 51.4% 7.0 YPA R3, P76- Indianapolis These technicalities are getting a bit ridiculous. With the Colts, he was a bust. He had a passer rating of just 66.2, threw more interceptions (15) than touchdowns (10), and completed only 53.7% of his passes, including the 1989 season where he completed just 48.8% of his passes. However, he turned it around in Atlanta, making it to two Pro Bowls, and even leading the Falcons to their first Super Bowl in the 1998 season against the Denver Broncos. Much like Favre, this is about where you’re setting the goalposts- over their entire career, or over what they did for their original team
1987 Kelly Stouffer Colorado State 54.8% 7.0 YPA R1, P6- St. Louis Cardinals Finally, a QB where there’s no debate on whether or not he busted. He refused to sign with the Cardinals, then played with the Seattle Seahawks, where he threw just 7 touchdowns and 19 interceptions, finishing his career with an abysmal 54.5 passer rating
So if we just include the first three rounds and go all the way back to 1984, we have 6 (or 7) additional quarterbacks, depending on whether or not you include the supplemental draft. Since 1984, there have been 18 (or 19) quarterbacks taken in the first three rounds of the draft falling below both of these numbers. Of these quarterbacks, there are 16 undeniable busts, two quarterbacks (Favre & Chandler) that were completely useless for their original team and then went onto have successful careers with other teams (Favre with the Packers, Chandler with the Falcons), and one that was really bad as a QB but turned out to have a pretty successful and accomplished career as a punter (Tupa). Not exactly a good track record. Drafting a QB really early that falls below both of these numbers is the equivalent of trying to go against nearly 35 years of history.
Part IV: Who to Avoid
With all of that being said, what QBs in this year’s draft at the FBS level fell below both of these numbers, averaging 7.3 yards per attempt or less AND having a completion percentage of 58.5% or worse? Draft Breakdown has a list of 66 quarterbacks in this year’s draft, so I took a look at every single one of them to play at the FBS level and looked at their stats from this past season. Spoiler alert: there’s a pretty big name on the list.
QB School Completion Percentage Yards Per Attempt
Josh Allen Wyoming 56.3% 6.7 YPA
Kurt Benkert Virginia 58.5% 6.3 YPA
Kyle Bolin Rutgers 54.9% 5.3 YPA
Brandon Harris North Carolina 49.3% 4.9 YPA
John O’Korn Michigan 53.5% 6.2 YPA
Richard Lagow Indiana 58.3% 6.6 YPA
Tanner Lee Nebraska 57.5% 7.3 YPA
Anu Solomon Baylor 43.6% 7.3 YPA
Thomas Woodson Akron 57.2% 6.4 YPA
NOTE 1: Parker Boehme of Duke fell below both of these numbers (50%, 3 YPA), but he went 1-for-2 for 6 yards. The sample size was so small that it doesn’t count; however, he’s not getting drafted
NOTE 2: Brice Ramsey of Georgia fell below both of these numbers (25%, 2.5 YPA), but he went 1-for-4 for 10 yards. The sample size was so small that it doesn’t count; however, he’s not getting drafted
Part V: Conclusion
Falling below one of these magic numbers is a problem. Falling below both of these magic numbers is almost a guaranteed failure rate, at least at the starter level. If you’re banking on a QB to be a successful starter, then pick anyone (literally anyone) that is above at least one of these numbers. If you’re picking said QB high in the draft, then you’re going against a lengthy and extensive history of failure. Every QB drafted since 1995 that fell below these magic numbers has not made it as a starter, and every QB drafted in the first three rounds since 1984 that fell below these numbers either didn’t make it as a starter, only had success when leaving the team that originally drafted him, or converted to punter
TL;DR: Don’t draft QBs who fall below the 58.5% and the 7.3 YPA magic number. In recent history, it has literally never worked out.
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2017.11.06 22:43 Blackbird027 Fournette situation

I'm a little emotionally charged so I'll try to keep that to a minimum, but I'm trying really hard to understand this... I'll start by saying I'm not a Jaguars fan, I am a Leonard Fournette fan. This has caused me to watch more Jags games this year than I ever have and I can confidently say that I think Fournette is one of the main reasons your offense has taken the jump it has even though he's just a rookie.
I understand the thought process of Marrone benching him for the game. What I DON'T understand is how he can get away without informing people why he did it. I know all of you guys know how much shit that would've caused if you would've lost, but since you won I guess it's all okay?
There's a story of Jimmy Johnson cutting a non starter for sleeping in a team meeting. When asked what he would've done if it would've been Troy Aikman sleeping, he responded, "I would've walked over to him, tapped him on the shoulder, and quietly said 'Troy, wake up.'" Not that Fournette is at Aikman status, but he might be your most valuable player on offense already.
On top of all of that, Fournette has had no behavioral issues. Ever. Reading comments in NFL, you'd think he is a thug now and it's directly related to the confusion of not knowing why he got benched... I think players deserve that with the way the media is these days.
All in all, I'm glad you guys won, because this sub would be more hate-filled today instead of Ramsey/Green memes.
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2017.05.09 01:30 JaguarGator9 [OC] 2017 Record Watch- Part I: Passing Yards

On Sundays during the offseason, I have Lost Leagues, a series about football leagues that failed. But I want to run other series alongside that. That leads me to this series, which I'll call "Record Watch."
The premise is simple- any records that could realistically be broken in 2017 are in this post. I'm not talking about single-season records, but rather, career records. Each post will be divided up into 2 parts. The first part will be NFL records and climbing up the league-wide ranks. The second part will be team-specific records and climbing up the team-wide ranks.
Each week, I'll focus on a different stat. Today, it's all about passing yards, both on the league-wide level and the team specific level.
Part I: NFL Records
Place Yards Needed to Surpass Surpassing
35 200 Ken Anderson (32,838)
34 304 Troy Aikman (32,942)
33 432 Y.A. Tittle (33,070)
32 486 Steve Young (33,124)
31 824 Phil Simms (33,462)
30 865 John Hadl (33,503)
29 1,545 Tony Romo (34,183)
28 1,603 Steve DeBerg (34,241)
27 2,062 Jim Hart (34,664)
26 2,199 Jim Everett (34,837)
Part II: Team-Specific Records
Place Yards Needed to Surpass Surpassing
13 207 Mickey Slaughter (3,607)
12 417 Steve DeBerg (3,819)
11 1,753 Steve Tensi (5,153)
10 3,037 Steve Ramsey (6,437)
9 3,838 Charley Johnson (7,238)
8 4,276 Frank Tripucka (7,676)
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2016.04.28 22:51 saltydog75 My final mock based on consensus amongst 18 final pro mocks plus my own spin

I compiled 18 professional and final (i.e. done within the past day or two) mock drafts from professionals to get some idea of the consensus view of the draft, then applied my own spin. Here's what I think will happen along with the consensus amongst the pros plus my logic:
  1. LA Rams: Jared Goff (obvious)
  2. Philadelphia Eagles: Carson Wentz (obvious)
  3. San Diego (Super) Chargers: Laremy Tunsil or Ronnie Stanley. A LT is the consensus here - 10 of 18 mocks have Tunsil or Stanley. Late word is Stanley, but as you'll see below, I don't think it matters. This could be a spot for a trade by a team that's around the middle of the first round and is scared they'll miss out on a tackle. Either way, whoever it is, it's going to be one of these two left tackles.
  4. Dallas Cowboys: Jalen Ramsey. This is a consensus pick - 10 of the 18 mocks had him here. Joey Bosa fills a need, there's going to be some sentiment for Ezekiel Elliott to try and re-create the glory years of Aikman/Emmit/Irvin, but the sane folks have clearly taken over in Dallas. They stick to their board and get the #1 guy on it.
  5. Jacksonville Jaguars: Joey Bosa. Another consensus pick - 7 of 18 mocks have Bosa here. That's not overwhelming, but it makes sense to me. Even with Dante Fowler healthy, the Jags need help rushing the passer, and Bosa's a very good and safe pick.
  6. Baltimore Ravens: Ronnie Stanley/Laremy Tunsil (whoever doesn't go at #3). Another consensus pick - 10 of 18 mocks have one of those two here. Ozzie Newsome knows value, and a starting LT is a clear value pick here. This could also be a spot for someone in the middle of the first to trade up to get one of the guys who's a certain future LT.
  7. San Francisco 49ers: DeForest Buckner. Not a lot of consensus here. 6 mocks had either Tunsil or Stanley, who I think will be gone. There was some sentiment for Myles Jack, but I think his injury concerns will push him down. That leaves DeForest Buckner, who was picked here by 6 of 18 mocks. I could see SF trading out of this pick because there's not going to be someone they're in love with, and there are going to be teams scared of an offensive tackle run, but if they stay here, Buckner's the pick.
  8. Tennessee Titans: Jack Conklin. There's no way Cleveland stays at #8. No consensus whatsoever amongst the mocks, and we know the Browns are in full-on Sam Hinkie mode. We know the Titans want to get a LT. The Browns will gladly take any offer close to reasonable to move out. Another candidate to trade up here is the Giants. Word is they're looking for a offensive tackle at #10 and they're going to be scared at what might be left.
  9. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Vernon Hargreaves. A consensus pick - 7 of 18 mocks have Hargreaves here. It feels right. When there are several guys you like here, why not go with the Gator?
  10. New York Giants: Taylor Decker. This is going to be a controversial one. Many mocks have Myles Jack or Leonard Floyd here. There's just so much smoke out there about the Giants targeting a LT that I feel like yet again they're going to panic and draft the highest on their board, even if it's a little bit of an overdraft. I don't think this pick makes sense, but it's what I see happening.
  11. Chicago Bears: Ezekiel Elliott. This is more of a feel pick. I believe Elliott when he says the Bears love him. That to me is more reliable than a journalist's information because clubs are more careful with the information they give to reporters than the impression they give to players they bring in to visit.
  12. New Orleans Saints: Sheldon Rankins. A clear consensus pick - 8 of 17 mocks have him here.
  13. Miami Dolphins: Leonard Floyd. Another feel pick. A lot of folks have Hargreaves here, but he's gone, as is Elliott, another popular choice. Floyd has late upward momentum.
  14. Oakland Raiders: William Jackson III. Another consensus pick. 6 of 18 mocks have him here. Makes sense to me.
  15. Cleveland Browns: Myles Jack. This just makes sense to me with the Browns following the Hinkie model. They've already traded down twice and accumulated picks. This is a chance to get a top of the first round guy here and potentially great value. Jack = Joel Embiid.
  16. Detroit Lions: Jarran Reed. A consensus pick - 9 of 18 mocks have them taking a DL, and 4 think it will be Reed.
  17. Atlanta Falcons: Darron Lee. A consensus pick - 8 of 18 mocks have him here. That's a lot for pick #17.
  18. Indianapolis Colts: Ryan Kelly. 4 of 18 mocks have him here, but 11 of 18 have an offensive lineman, no one else makes as much sense here, and the late Kelly to the Colts rumors are louder and louder. Protect Luck.
  19. Buffalo Bills: Shaq Lawson. Part consensus, part feel. 5 of 18 mocks have him here. 13 of 18 have a pass rusher. Some say Nkemdiche. That doesn't feel right to me when there are guys with less baggage that are valued similarly.
  20. New York Jets: Eli Apple. Lots of Paxton Lynch talk here. I don't buy it at all. This is a good team. They'll re-sign Fitzpatrick eventually. They can wait for the QB of the future in a later round or next year. Aside from guys already gone in my mock, the consensus was a CB, and Apple was the one mentioned most frequently.
  21. Washington Redskins: A'Shawn Robinson. 11 of 18 mocks have them taking a DT. McCloughan loves big school guys. Thus, Robinson.
  22. Houston Texans: Corey Coleman. Overwhelming consensus it's a WR - 16 of 18 mocks have one. Coleman and Doctson both were on 6 mocks. I'll take Coleman due to the Baylor connection.
  23. Minnesota Vikings: Laquon Treadwell. Clear consensus here - 10 of 18 have Treadwell. 24. Cincinnati Bengals: Josh Doctson. 13 of 18 mocks have a WR. Will Fuller's a possibility, but Doctson feels like the more logical pick.
  24. Pittsburgh Steelers: Mackenzie Alexander. Overwhelming consensus - 17 of 18 mocks have a DB here. There's some sentiment for Karl Joseph, but I think the Steelers will go for a CB.
  25. Seattle Seahawks: Robert Nkemdiche. This is a feel pick more than anything. Not a whole lot of consensus - some for OL help, some for DL help - so I went with my gut. If there's a team that can harness Nkemdiche's natural talent and convert it into its full potential, this seems like it. Strong locker room, a coach that can reach him rather than distance him, and a city that's far away from basically anyone around him who's not a great influence. It just feels like in a few years he's going to be an all-pro and everyone's going to be saying "how did the Seahawks get another defensive terror?".
  26. Green Bay Packers: Andrew Billings. Consensus for a DT here - 11 of 18 mocks. Too much upside for the Packers to pass on him.
  27. Kansas City Chiefs: Reggie Ragland. Not much consensus here, but 3 mocks have Ragland here, and it seems like the right time for him to go.
  28. Arizona Cardinals: TJ Green. The mocks are all over the map. This one seemed the most logical of any that received multiple mentions.
  29. Carolina Panthers: Noah Spence. There was a ton of consensus for Kevin Dodd, and he does make a lot of sense, but I'm going with a feeling here that Carolina's going with a guy they think had the talent to go much higher and is a better pass rusher than Dodd. There are some character concerns, but I think Carolina's going to look at Spence and conclude he's matured since his troubles and is a great value here.
  30. Denver Broncos: Connor Cook. This one just feels right. They've got a great team minus a QB. Cook is very NFL-ready according to most. Paxton Lynch, nope - they want someone who can start day 1.
Guys who someone will pick early in round 2:
Paxton Lynch: guessing the Browns scoop him up. Kevin Dodd: someone who needs a pass rusher will get him early. Will Fuller: he could easily go earlier. Most teams could use a blazer over the top. This feels like a guy someone will trade up to get. Chris Jones: someone with a DT need will target him. Karl Joseph
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2016.04.28 02:57 aaron-lebo Tell me why Zeke + Karl Joseph isn't the right combination over Ramsey, Bosa, or anything else...

It seems from reports that at #3 the Cowboys will either go Ramsey or Zeke, or trade back a bit.
At first my strong preference was for Ramsey. He just looks like he could be the best free safety in the league in 5 years. But...we already have that potential in Byron Jones, so the team could have him bulk up and try to be a new kind of ballhawk/big hitter strong safety. But based on what the Cowboys are saying, they want him as a cornerback. Will he be the best cornerback in the league in 5 years? A cornerback that high needs to have the ability to shut down an entire side of the field. That's much harder. What's more, the Cowboys have great cost/performance there with Scandrick, Claiborne (only the most recent of 1st round DBs that haven't lived up to their potential), and Carr. The Cowboys defensive backfield is not a complete mess for the first time in years. Yeah, you don't draft for need, but it might be Ramsey who is the real luxury...
And then there's Zeke. Yeah, running backs usually have short lifespans. Yeah, you don't want to pay that much for a rookie RB. Yeah, there is a lot of RB talent available next year. Yeah, we already have Morris and McFadden and Dunbar and anyone, even Troy Hambrick could run for 1000 yards behind that line (I'm kidding. Troy Hambrick humbled himself and actually had a good season for us in 2003).
That being said...
The kid is 20. He's an RGK. He can do everything: run, receive, block. He can probably even skate. Watch him run. He has a combination of vision, balance, speed that is unique.
Put him behind that line and it's just hard to imagine what he could do. It really is. His talent + that line's talent. I just don't even want to say what could be possible, because it's silly, but he could break records. Really. That's not absurd to think.
He's 20. That means we get an entire rookie contract out of him with the core of the line and Romo and Dez and Wiiten around. At that point, he'll be 24, maybe have minimal wear and tear because of the line, how he plays, and vets like McFadden and Morris to share the load. Oddly, because runningbacks are so undervalued and becuase of home town discount, he might actually be relatively cheap to sign. And if you have a franchise running back and line to rely on, that makes finding the right QB that can do everything (like Romo), much easier....
Why do you not want that? It's back to how the Cowboys used to win. Emmitt was not the greatest running back ever. He was however, one of the best, and with that line...well, we all know what happened. Romo broke all of Aikman's records. Why? Not becuase Troy wasn't one of the best, but becuase the Cowboys didn't rely on him to make every. single. play. like they've had to with Romo. Romo's just that good. Aikman would have been Andrew Luck in the modern game. They just didn't play that way then. What did Troy always have though? Incredible efficiency. He had that because good play action is the bread and butter of every great offense. It's incredibly hard when you've got to defend against a star QB, wide receiver, tight end, and runningback. Am I talking about the 1995, 2014, or 2016 Cowboys?
So...Zeke?
But what about defense? Don't we have to do something when Hardy is gone and Gregory and D-Law are getting in trouble for smoking pot? A safety doesn't solve that problem directly anyway. What about Bosa? Do you really want another young supposed partier on that line? When those guys do get back and start playing (and you want them to play to develop), where does Bosa go? We've actually already added a huge amount of help in Thornton on the line, so it's not like this defensive line has just fallen to tatters. We still have young guys like David Irving and Crawford that are Rod's guys now. Gregory and Lawrence still can be stars. Give them time. If anyone knows a thing or two about defensive lines in the NFL, it's Rod Marinelli, and oddly enough, he's supposdely one of the biggest fans of drafting Zeke. Huh. Maybe he knows that a strong running game fits his defensive schemes best. Nah, some random draft guru probably knows more than him. Yeah, that was an appeal to authority.
But we can still upgrade this defense with first round talent. We got Jones at 27 last year. Interestingly, later in the first round, Karl Joseph, the hard hitting safety from WVU is supposed to be available. Go check out Bob Sturm's piece on him. He's a vicous hitter, he flies around the field. He's a guy that will take risks for the big play. That sounds like turnovers to me. Something this defense needs. Something Ramsey did not get at FSU (maybe because teams weren't throwing at him), but still. A great CB can shut down one side of the field, but a great safety can be...anywhere. That's a wildcard. Put Karl Joseph at strong safety and Jones at free safety. Very complimentary play styles. Give Morris the chance to develop. He wants to be the best. Sometimes CBs do take time. Josh Norman just had his best year in his late 20s. Carr and Scandrick especially can be serviceable vets for several more years.
What do you think?
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2016.03.25 05:02 ronin_ninja Navigating the post Romo era

Navigating the post Aikman era was dreadful, having 8 different starting QB's from 2001 to 2005 is something I never want to see this franchise go through again.
Finding an un-drafted free agent in Tony Romo was a gift from the gods. However, this is not something fans and the FO can expect to happen again. I believe this is one of the main reasons so many among cowboy nation and talk radio want a QB drafted with the 4th overall pick this year.
I for one am very hesitant about that choice and here is why:
  1. Like all things in the draft finding a quality player can be hit or miss. Finding a quality QB puts even greater risk and chance of picking the wrong guy.
  2. The current build of the team. This team has been built with Tony Romo in mind and the term Romo friendly was coined 2 seasons ago if my memory serves me correctly. 3 first round draft picks have been placed on our offensive line and have done a remarkable job. One un-drafted free agent in Colins who was projected to be first round talent. Adequate running backs. The always reliable Jason written. The dynamic Dez Bryant. On the opposite side of the ball we have Sean Lee, a player who can make big plays when healthy and a tone setter in McClain. No pass rush and serviceable cornerbacks but no turn overs. Byron Jones has some major upside as a free safety and has proven to handle tight end coverage.
2014 was a template for success, our running game was on point with Murray getting the tough yards and giving favorable second and third down situations. Opposing teams had to choose between double covering Bryant, Witten, or stopping the run giving Romo multiple options. The running game allowed us to control the clock and keep our defense off the field and tire down the opposing defense. The Cowboys were truly a playoff contending team, but with no pass rush the super bowl could never be ours.
Jerry believes Romo has 4 to 5 years left in the tank, and the 4th pick in the draft will be used with that concept in mind. I believe that is the correct mind set. However that greatly depends on the direction they take in the draft.
On to the draft, to navigate the current and post Romo era is actually one in the same.
  1. Improve the defense! We need pass rush and we greatly needed it last year. Our pass rush was so bad we let a disruptive player in Greg Hardy keep playing when he probably should of been benched, suspended or even cut due to his actions on the sidelines and lock room as well as Valley Ranch. Now Randy Gergory will miss 4 games and with another failed test will result in an entire year. Lawrence has been effective at times.
  2. Linebackers: Sean Lee has to be viewed as pretty much not apart of the team due to the amount of time missed over his career due to injury. McClain was given another one year deal, and that doesn't show a lot of faith in a guy.
  3. Defensive backs: Carr is overpaid. Morris Claiborne needs to stay healthy and show that he is worth the 6th pick. Orlando Scandrick is coming off of a serious knee injury. Bryan Jones was a pleasant surprise and I can't wait to see more from him. Barry church has been serviceable.
The FO has already built a solid offensive line that only needs to be upgraded on the right tackle position. I look forward to seeing the combination of DMC and Morris and hopefully Dunbar can get back and be healthy and show that electricity we saw in the first few games last year. They are good backs behind a great line and that allows them to be all they can be, good backs. However I would love to see a great back behind this great line that will allow him or them to be great backs and have a great running game much like DeMarco had or even better.
Jason Witten is always reliable but aging. Hopefully Dez can get back to being Dez and I will try not to judge him for last seasons performance due to injuries. The FO can find a better #2 to replace Williams. And Beasly is a good slot receiver.
So finally, where do we go from here?
The FO has added depth this offseason and made it a point not to over pay like they did with Carr and I applaud them for that.
With the fourth overall pick in the draft many fans and a few sports radio heads want a QB taken in this draft. I believe that will be a huge mistake and one that the Browns consistently keep botching on.
The FO must first build an effective defense that produces a pass rush that doesn't have to get sacks so much as get great QB pressure to produce forced and errant throws. A great defensive line makes an ok defensive backfield a good one and allows our line backers to clean up and head hunt.
I really like the Seahawks template for their Super Bowl runs. They built a defense that got turn overs, gave the offensive great filed position and put points on the board. This allowed Russell Wilson to hand the ball off to the great Marshawn Lynch and Russell could just manage the game while growing into a top tier QB.
If the FO chooses to take this routine I not only believe that this is a win now mentality but also a win later post Romo era. It will allow the FO to draft for QB's in later rounds much like Russell and Brady were 3rd and 6th round picks. Their environment was conducive to helping a QB grow as well as being a winning football team.
With all that being said and all the moves made during the offseason I believe Elliot is no longer an option at 4 if he ever was. I'm not high on Bosa but I wouldn't be crying buckets of tears if he was taken. I'd love to have Jalen Ramsey if he is at 4. If he is not then the next logical choice seeing as how I think a QB should come in round 3 or 4 would be to take the Athletic Miles Jack. He will provide linebacker depth when Sean Lee gets another concussion and the opposing offense immediately attacks our weak spot. But I believe he could become our Kam Chancellor and have him play strong safety. This would extend his longevity and with his athleticism I believe he will be able to grow in coverage ability but have the size and power to play the position effectively more so than Church who is on his last year.
Rounds 2 and 3 should be dedicated to DE, DT, and CB in which ever order the FO's draft board allows.
When Romo retires, his 20 million against the cap will be gone, Jason Witten won't be far behind him as well. I'm hearing there is a plethora of quality running backs who might be coming out in next years draft and that will be the time to find a great running back to work behind this great line. Find Witten's replacement(someone who can block and catch) and draft another QB in later rounds and continue to groom them until we find one that can work on a team that has been built to allow a QB to go through the growing pains without sacrificing wins. As well as playing them on their rookie contracts and keeping the huge chunk of cap space they take up free until one has proven capable enough to be a franchise QB.
submitted by ronin_ninja to cowboys [link] [comments]


2015.07.13 19:04 skepticismissurvival Which QB really has the best Passer Rating of all time? I adjusted passer ratings to account for the era. 2000+ QB seasons included.

A couple of weeks ago I made a post on what I'm calling "adjusted Passer Rating" that examined the QBs from 2014. I decided to expand on that research, and what I ended up doing was era-adjusting the passer rating for every player season where that player attempted over 100 passes, all the way back to 1932 (the first year the NFL kept statistics). That's 2,270 qualifying seasons. While in the early years of the game few players met that threshold (in fact, in 1932, only one player, Arnie Herber, threw over 100 passes), in recent years there was an average of about 45 players that met the threshold per season. Here's brief explanation of how passer rating works:
here is a brief explanation:
If you want more detailed information, please read this article.
The thing I modified are the coefficients, which instead of basing them on data from the 60's, I'm basing them on the previous 10 seasons. So while the data calculated for passers in 1969 is based on 1960-1969, the data for 2014 is based on 2005-2014, and the data from 1985 is based on 1976-1985. This (theoretically) creates an era-adjusted formula that puts the rating of a player from 1957 on par with the rating of a player from 2009. That's probably not the case because (a) the passing game was stilly pretty scarce in 1957 and (b) passer rating isn't necessarily the best formula to judge QBs anyway, but I still think the data is interesting to take a look at.
Furthermore, I separated the data into two categories. The two categories are seasons from 1932-1972 and seasons from 1973-2014. While that's pretty much arbitrary, I think it's a nice cutoff because (a) 1973 was the first season passer rating was used and (b) it splits the seasons in half.
By the way, if you want to check out my spreadsheet with all of the data, here it is. Anyway, below are the results for the best and worse passer rating season of all time:

Top 75 All-Time Adjusted Passer Ratings Since 1973

(* denotes seasons where player attempted fewer than 200 passes)
Rank Player Year Adj PR PR Rank
1 Aaron Rodgers 2011 118.58 122.46 1
2 Peyton Manning 2004 118.04 121.11 2
3 Steve Grogan* 1986 116.58 113.85 6
4 Nick Foles 2013 115.48 119.21 3
5 Tom Brady 2007 115.03 117.18 4
6 Steve Young 1994 112.34 112.79 8
7 Joe Montana 1989 111.64 112.41 9
8 Dan Marino 1984 111.64 108.94 18
9 Wade Wilson 1992* 109.26 110.11 14
10 Ken Stabler 1976 109.13 103.41 38
11 Peyton Manning 2013 108.13 115.11 5
12 Tom Brady 2010 107.84 110.99 11
13 Boomer Esiason* 1997 107.75 106.88 22
14 Bert Jones 1976 107.72 102.47 45
15 Daunte Culpepper 2004 106.89 110.94 12
16 Kurt Warner 1999 106.50 109.24 16
17 Steve Young 1992 106.10 107.03 21
18 Aaron Rodgers 2014 105.97 112.19 10
19 Joe Montana 1984 104.80 102.87 43
20 Josh McCown 2013 104.22 109.02 17
21 Randall Cunningham 1998 103.94 106.04 23
22 Tony Romo 2014 103.21 113.24 7
23 Ken Anderson 1981 102.67 98.41 82
24 Steve Young 1997 102.52 104.72 31
25 Drew Brees 2009 102.52 109.64 15
26 Brett Favre 2009 102.38 107.25 20
27 Drew Brees 2011 102.27 110.63 13
28 Matt Cavanaugh* 1980 101.99 95.93 125
29 Dave Krieg 1994 101.92 101.71 52
30 Brian Griese 2000 101.66 102.88 42
31 Eric Zeier* 1997 101.65 101.15 61
32 Joe Montana 1987 101.63 102.10 48
33 Aaron Rodgers 2012 101.36 108.02 19
34 Drew Brees 2004 101.19 104.78 29
35 Chad Pennington 2002 101.18 104.21 34
36 Donovan McNabb 2004 101.16 104.74 30
37 Steve Bartkowski 1983 100.40 97.64 93
38 Vinny Testaverde 1998 100.30 101.61 53
39 Pat Haden* 1976 100.10 94.78 149
40 Joe Theismann 1983 99.85 96.98 107
41 Jim McMahon 1984 99.83 97.83 92
42 Jim Kelly 1990 99.57 101.18 59
43 Ken Stabler 1974 99.51 94.95 146
44 Ken Anderson 1974 99.42 95.67 130
45 Dan Marino 1983 99.34 95.97 124
46 Rob Johnson* 1998 99.20 102.94 41
47 Jim Harbaugh 1995 99.07 100.74 66
48 Trent Green 2000 99.06 101.79 51
49 Philip Rivers 2008 99.05 105.54 26
50 Steve Young 1991 99.01 101.80 50
51 David Garrard 2007 99.01 102.20 47
52 Danny White* 1986 98.77 97.86 91
53 Sonny Jurgensen* 1974 98.63 94.52 156
54 Peyton Manning 2005 98.61 104.06 37
55 Ken Anderson 1975 98.34 93.92 161
56 Roger Staubach 1979 98.27 92.34 201
57 Steve Young 1998 98.18 101.13 62
58 Aaron Rodgers 2009 97.92 103.24 40
59 Roger Staubach 1973 97.84 94.57 154
60 Steve Young 1993 97.75 101.50 56
61 Philip Rivers 2009 97.51 104.40 33
62 Ben Roethlisberger 2007 97.45 104.13 35
63 Brett Favre 1995 97.44 99.55 72
64 Ken Anderson 1982 97.43 95.33 138
65 Dave Krieg 1983 97.37 95.00 144
66 Ken O'Brien 1985 97.35 96.24 120
67 Tom Brady 2011 97.32 105.57 25
68 Peyton Manning 2012 97.20 105.85 24
69 Troy Aikman 1993 96.84 99.02 74
70 Steve McNair 2003 96.77 100.36 68
71 Bubby Brister* 1998 96.70 98.97 76
72 Joe Montana 1983 96.63 94.56 155
73 Peyton Manning 2006 96.40 100.95 64
74 Fran Tarkenton 1975 96.36 91.83 215
75 Fran Tarkenton 1973 96.34 93.22 175
When there was a name on this list I didn't recognize, it was most likely because they didn't have more than 200 attempts, and their season was just an anomaly.
From this analysis, Aaron Rodgers' 2011 still just barely edges out Peyton Manning's 2004 as the most efficient QB season of all time. In fact, four of the top 4 were from this milleneum, and the only one that wasn't was by Steve Grogan, who barely made the attempts threshold in 1986 with 102 attempts. The general inflation of traditional passer rating in recent seasons is also clear, because you have years like Romo's 2014 dropping significantly while a season like Marino's '84 rises drastically. Other than that, you have quite a number of players who are considered all-time greats on the list, with the notable exception of Elway.
Now on to the top players from before 1973:

Top 50 All-Time Adjusted Passer Ratings Before 1973

Rank Player Year Adj PR PR Rank
1 Sid Luckman 1943 132.99 107.55 4
2 Sid Luckman 1941 125.84 95.26 18
3 Sammy Baugh 1945 124.44 109.89 2
4 Ed Danowski 1935 120.94 69.71 202
5 Sammy Baugh 1940 118.33 85.58 63
6 Cecil Isbell 1942 117.13 86.99 51
7 Milt Plum 1960 115.59 110.37 1
8 Sid Luckman 1942 114.03 80.12 103
9 Cecil Isbell 1941 112.42 81.35 96
10 Frank Filchock 1944 111.60 85.96 60
11 Sammy Baugh 1942 110.97 82.53 86
12 Sammy Baugh 1943 110.54 77.99 126
13 Tommy Thompson 1948 109.98 98.37 12
14 Otto Graham 1953 109.50 99.66 11
15 Ace Parker 1940 108.91 73.29 170
16 Charlie Conerly 1959 108.86 102.73 10
17 Bill Nelsen 1966 107.53 107.81 3
18 Roger Staubach 1971 106.57 104.81 7
19 Ed Danowski 1937 106.39 72.79 173
20 Y.A. Tittle 1963 106.36 104.77 8
21 Sammy Baugh 1947 106.30 91.98 27
22 Bob Berry 1969 106.13 106.49 5
23 Tommy O'Connell 1957 105.36 93.33 23
24 Arnie Herber 1936 104.90 58.90 344
25 Bart Starr 1966 104.86 104.96 6
26 Bart Starr 1968 104.27 104.35 9
27 Ed Danowski 1938 103.95 66.94 235
28 Otto Graham 1955 103.16 94.00 19
29 Ray Mallouf 1948 102.63 91.24 30
30 Sid Luckman 1945 102.18 82.48 87
31 Bob Waterfield 1945 100.84 72.37 179
32 Billy Wade 1961 100.18 93.72 21
33 Eddie LeBaron 1962 99.98 95.36 16
34 Johnny Unitas 1959 99.65 91.99 26
35 Roy Zimmerman 1945 99.01 75.94 144
36 Johnny Unitas 1957 98.43 88.05 46
37 Bernie Masterson 1939 98.42 58.65 346
38 Norm Van Brocklin 1950 98.40 85.08 70
39 Cecil Isbell 1939 98.25 66.36 247
40 Harry Newman 1933 97.93 51.75 417
41 Bart Starr 1964 97.88 97.12 14
42 Arnie Herber 1937 97.83 50.00 436
43 Johnny Unitas 1965 97.49 97.38 13
44 Johnny Unitas 1958 97.41 89.96 36
45 Johnny Unitas 1964 97.25 96.40 15
46 Arnie Herber 1939 97.16 61.65 307
47 Tommy Thompson 1949 97.09 84.38 75
48 Eddie LeBaron 1957 96.93 86.12 59
49 Arnie Herber 1934 96.80 45.07 477
50 Y.A. Tittle 1953 96.78 84.15 78
Right away what jumps out to you here is just how far ahead of their time both Sid Luckman and Sammy Baugh were as passers. Their adjusted passer ratings are ridiculous because they put up ridiculous numbers compared to their contemporaries. Besides those two, the guys from the 50's and 60's like Johnny Unitas, YA Tittle, Otto Graham, and Bart Starr showing up on the list. I also believe Rodger Staubach is the only player to show up on both lists, although I haven't tried very hard to verify that.

Leaders in Adjusted Passer Rating for Every Season

(Season with fewer than 200 pass attempts excluded after 1960) (* denotes tie) (** denotes fewer than 10 qualifiers) (*** denotes fewer than 5 qualifier) (**** denotes only qualifier)
Year Player Adj PR Rank PR Rank
2014 Aaron Rodgers 105.97 18 112.19 10
2013 Nick Foles 115.48 4 119.21 3
2012 Aaron Rodgers 101.36 33 108.02 19
2011 Aaron Rodgers 118.58 1 122.46 1
2010 Tom Brady 107.84 12 110.99 11
2009 Drew Brees 102.52 25 109.64 15
2008 Philip Rivers 99.05 49 105.54 26
2007 Tom Brady 115.03 5 117.18 4
2006 Peyton Manning 96.40 73 100.95 64
2005 Peyton Manning 98.61 54 104.06 37
2004 Peyton Manning 118.04 2 121.11 2
2003 Steve McNair 96.77 70 100.36 68
2002 Chad Pennington 101.18 35 104.21 34
2001 Kurt Warner 92.82 128 101.37 57
2000 Brian Griese 101.66 30 102.88 42
1999 Kurt Warner 106.50 16 109.24 16
1998 Randall Cunningham 103.94 21 106.04 23
1997 Steve Young 102.52 24 104.72 31
1996 Steve Young 93.67 114 97.15 104
1995 Jim Harbaugh 99.07 47 100.74 66
1994 Steve Young 112.34 6 112.79 8
1993 Steve Young 97.75 60 101.50 56
1992 Steve Young 106.10 17 107.03 21
1991 Steve Young 99.01 50 101.80 50
1990 Jim Kelly 99.57 42 101.18 59
1989 Joe Montana 111.64 7 112.41 9
1988 Boomer Esiason 95.39 83 97.36 101
1987 Joe Montana 101.63 32 102.10 48
1986 Tommy Kramer 93.11 125 92.59 193
1985 Ken O'Brien 97.35 66 96.24 120
1984 Dan Marino 111.64 8 108.94 18
1983 Steve Bartkowski 100.40 37 97.64 93
1982 Ken Anderson 97.43 64 95.33 138
1981 Ken Anderson 102.67 23 98.41 82
1980 Ron Jaworski* 95.98 79 91.04 229
1980 Brian Sipe* 95.98 80 91.37 222
1979 Roger Staubach 98.27 56 92.34 201
1978 Terry Bradshaw 91.26 151 84.68 448
1977 Bob Griese 93.68 113 87.75 336
1976 Ken Stabler 109.13 10 103.41 38
1975 Ken Anderson 98.34 55 93.92 161
1974 Ken Stabler 99.51 43 94.95 146
1973 Roger Staubach 97.84 59 94.57 154
1972 Billy Kilmer 87.25 121 84.82 71
1971 Roger Staubach 106.57 18 104.81 7
1970 John Brodie 94.37 64 93.81 20
1969 Fran Tarkenton 87.25 120 87.23 49
1968 Earl Morrall 93.24 74 93.16 24
1967 Sonny Jurgensen 87.55 118 87.28 48
1966 Bart Starr 104.86 25 104.96 6
1965 Johnny Unitas 97.49 43 97.38 13
1964 Bart Starr 97.88 41 97.12 14
1963 Y.A. Tittle 106.36 20 104.77 8
1962 Bart Starr 94.21 65 90.65 33
1961 Billy Wade 100.18 32 93.72 21
1960 Milt Plum 115.59 7 110.37 1
1959 Charlie Conerly 108.86 16 102.73 10
1958 Johnny Unitas 97.41 44 89.96 36
1957 Tommy O'Connell 105.36 23 93.33 23
1956 Ed Brown 95.13 59 83.11 84
1955 Otto Graham 103.16 28 94.00 19
1954 Adrian Burk 92.76 80 80.37 100
1953 Otto Graham 109.50 14 99.66 11
1952 Tobin Rote 96.17 52 85.63 62
1951 Bob Waterfield 93.95 69 81.77 93
1950 Norm Van Brocklin 98.40 38 85.08 70
1949 Tommy Thompson 97.09 47 84.38 75
1948 Tommy Thompson 109.98 13 98.37 12
1947 Sammy Baugh** 106.30 21 91.98 27
1946 Sid Luckman** 93.13 78 70.97 191
1945 Sammy Baugh** 124.44 3 109.89 2
1944 Frank Filchock** 111.60 10 85.96 60
1943 Sid Luckman** 132.99 1 107.55 4
1942 Cecil Isbell** 117.13 6 86.99 51
1941 Sid Luckman** 125.84 2 95.26 18
1940 Sammy Baugh** 118.33 5 85.58 63
1939 Bernie Masterson** 98.42 37 58.65 346
1938 Ed Danowski** 103.95 27 66.94 235
1937 Ed Danowski*** 106.39 19 72.79 173
1936 Arnie Herber*** 104.90 24 58.90 344
1935 Ed Danowski*** 120.94 4 69.71 202
1934 Arnie Herber*** 96.80 49 45.07 477
1933 Harry Newman*** 97.93 40 51.75 417
1932 Arnie Herber**** 94.12 67 51.55 421
As you can see, the early yearst of the game saw really scarce passing and not all that many qualifiers. In fact, the league didn't really consistently have 10+ passers with 200+ attempts until the mid-60s. What you can also see from this list is players who have been dominant. Rodgers sticks out at the top, winning 3 of the last four seasons. Manning's 2004-2006 seasons were also a dominant stretch. Really though, this just solidifies Steve Young as the passer rating king, as he led the league in 6 out of 7 seasons. The only other player lead the league in Adjusted Passer Rating three times in the modern era is, perhaps somewhat surprisingly, the Bengals' Ken Anderson.

Bottom 75 All-Time Adjusted Passer Ratings Since 1973

Rank Player Year Adj PR PR Rank
1710 Kurt Kittner 2003 14.84 32.46 1704
1709 Rick Mirer 1997 20.22 37.68 1695
1708 Derek Anderson 2009 21.08 42.10 1683
1707 Ryan Leaf 1998 22.45 38.97 1692
1706 Dan Pastorini 1981 23.74 22.89 1708
1705 Kim McQuilken 1976 23.74 21.71 1710
1704 Scott Bull 1978 24.41 22.43 1709
1703 Alex Smith 2005 25.55 40.85 1685
1702 Ryan Lindley 2012 26.20 46.72 1658
1701 Alex Van Pelt 1997 29.68 37.16 1698
1700 Chris Simms 2006 30.77 46.31 1663
1699 JaMarcus Russell 2009 31.29 49.97 1637
1698 Bert Jones 1973 31.94 28.82 1707
1697 Bobby Hoying 1998 31.99 45.63 1671
1696 Craig Whelihan 1998 32.18 47.96 1650
1695 Danny Kanell 2003 32.83 49.09 1644
1694 Glenn Foley 1996 33.07 46.74 1657
1693 Gary Marangi 1976 33.62 30.78 1706
1692 Heath Shuler 1997 33.65 46.58 1662
1691 John Skelton 2012 34.24 55.40 1571
1690 Bob Lee 1974 34.30 32.41 1705
1689 Trent Edwards 2010 34.59 54.93 1579
1688 Marty Domres 1974 34.59 33.21 1702
1687 Erik Kramer 1999 34.74 46.65 1661
1686 Caleb Hanie 2011 34.84 41.83 1684
1685 Josh Johnson 2009 34.89 50.92 1628
1684 John Fourcade 1990 35.36 46.08 1666
1683 Pat Sullivan 1974 35.38 33.67 1701
1682 Richard Todd 1976 35.45 33.20 1703
1681 Mike Tomczak 1995 35.85 44.34 1674
1680 Stoney Case 1999 36.02 50.32 1634
1679 Danny Kanell 2000 36.08 49.64 1640
1678 Mike Tomczak 1990 36.34 43.79 1676
1677 Jake Plummer 1999 36.41 50.76 1632
1676 Todd Bouman 2005 36.41 54.75 1584
1675 Steve Grogan 1988 36.58 37.62 1696
1674 Trent Dilfer 2007 36.58 55.09 1577
1673 Craig Krenzel 2004 36.70 52.54 1613
1672 Josh Freeman 2013 36.87 52.57 1611
1671 Kirk Cousins 2013 37.08 58.37 1518
1670 Stan Gelbaugh 1991 37.19 42.13 1682
1669 Scott Mitchell 2000 37.21 50.79 1631
1668 Tyler Palko 2011 37.31 59.79 1482
1667 Jerry Tagge 1974 37.74 36.02 1700
1666 Keith Null 2009 38.20 49.91 1638
1665 Andrew Walter 2006 38.39 55.78 1557
1664 Gary Huff 1973 38.52 36.64 1699
1663 Kelly Stouffer 1992 38.56 47.70 1652
1662 Bobby Hebert 1994 38.58 51.03 1625
1661 Steve Stenstrom 1999 38.76 52.75 1609
1660 Bill Kenney 1988 38.92 46.27 1664
1659 Eric Zeier 1995 38.93 51.88 1621
1658 Mike McMahon 2002 39.01 52.37 1616
1657 Elvis Grbac 1998 39.32 53.10 1602
1656 Mike Pagel 1990 39.34 48.23 1649
1655 Jake Delhomme 2009 39.50 59.39 1497
1654 Matt Hasselbeck 2008 39.89 57.82 1527
1653 Mark Malone 1987 40.00 46.68 1660
1652 Vinny Testaverde 2005 40.14 59.36 1498
1651 Vinny Testaverde 1988 40.28 48.76 1648
1650 Matt Robinson 1980 40.28 39.69 1689
1649 Brady Quinn 2012 40.34 60.06 1476
1648 Chris Chandler 1991 40.42 50.95 1627
1647 Eli Manning 2004 40.61 55.45 1569
1646 Ryan Leaf 2000 40.72 56.21 1552
1645 Gary Danielson 1977 40.78 38.13 1694
1644 Mike Phipps 1980 40.86 39.99 1687
1643 Don Majkowski 1996 40.98 54.94 1578
1642 Gary Huff 1977 41.02 37.38 1697
1641 Scott Secules 1993 41.41 54.26 1591
1640 Matthew Stafford 2009 41.43 60.96 1449
1639 Kordell Stewart 2003 41.53 56.83 1541
1638 Steve Bartkowski 1976 41.63 39.48 1690
1637 Joe Pisarcik 1979 41.65 39.00 1691
1636 Ryan Fitzpatrick 2005 41.69 58.16 1523
This is the list you don't want to be on, especially if you're Kurt Kittner. It's mostly a bunch of backups or busts, but there are some players, like Alex Smith, Jake Plummer, Vinny Testaverde, Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Plummer, Don Majkowski, and Eli Manning, who had successful (or better) careers.

Bottom 50 All-Time Adjusted Passer Ratings Before 1973

Year Player Adj PR Rank PR Rank
1949 Stan Heath 12.26 560 0.04 560
1970 Terry Bradshaw 31.31 559 30.35 543
1959 Tobin Rote 32.47 558 26.83 548
1970 Joe Kapp 33.07 557 32.60 534
1971 Bobby Douglass 38.07 556 36.97 525
1967 Ron Vander Kelen 38.25 555 36.94 526
1953 Babe Parilli 41.07 554 28.51 544
1953 Eddie LeBaron 41.07 553 28.33 545
1971 Kent Nix 41.56 552 40.40 511
1969 Terry Hanratty 41.60 551 41.73 501
1957 Babe Parilli 42.22 550 34.76 531
1970 Mike Taliaferro 42.37 549 41.85 500
1966 Terry Nofsinger 42.65 548 41.15 505
1935 Johnny Gildea 42.84 547 12.06 558
1951 Chuck Ortmann 43.20 546 24.00 553
1971 Don Horn 43.40 545 42.45 497
1950 Tobin Rote 43.64 544 26.69 549
1968 Randy Johnson 43.78 543 42.47 495
1971 James Harris 44.13 542 43.02 491
1960 Zeke Bratkowski 44.18 541 40.38 512
1971 Dan Pastorini 44.81 540 43.78 486
1948 Jack Jacobs 45.12 539 27.90 547
1972 Gary Cuozzo 45.14 538 43.67 489
1956 Bobby Thomason 45.60 537 40.73 509
1940 Billy Patterson 46.21 536 14.10 557
1940 Hugh McCullough 46.24 535 23.89 554
1952 Frank Tripucka 46.65 534 28.27 546
1968 Kent Nix 46.66 533 45.67 473
1970 Terry Hanratty 46.68 532 46.10 469
1943 Ronnie Cahill 47.02 531 33.14 533
1972 Jim Plunkett 47.04 530 45.70 472
1971 Dennis Shaw 47.07 529 46.08 471
1949 Harry Gilmer 47.29 528 30.97 540
1971 Steve Ramsey 47.64 527 46.56 465
1954 Lamar McHan 47.67 526 32.39 535
1971 Pete Beathard 47.75 525 46.71 464
1971 Scott Hunter 47.87 524 46.09 470
1965 Buddy Humphrey 47.98 523 44.78 480
1949 Jug Girard 48.53 522 31.63 538
1953 Tobin Rote 48.60 521 32.38 536
1953 Steve Romanik 48.78 520 31.75 537
1969 Greg Landry 48.85 519 48.26 455
1967 Randy Johnson 49.13 518 47.80 461
1966 Randy Johnson 49.19 517 47.78 462
1939 Hugh McCullough 49.36 516 14.29 556
1967 Joe Kapp 49.53 515 48.15 456
1944 John Grigas 49.69 514 31.52 539
1955 Lamar McHan 49.80 513 34.79 530
1966 Milt Plum 49.86 512 47.83 460
1960 Jim Ninowski 50.14 511 40.94 508
Stan Heath did not actually have a passer rating of 0.04 in 1949. It was 4.6. I forgot to set a lower for bound some of the categories at 0, so on very rare occasions (and only in the early years of the game) a player ended up actually getting a negative score for some of the categories. Still, he was just horrendous at passing. He completed fewer than a quarter of his passes (26/106) for 355 yards, with just 1 TD and 14 INTs. And, yet, when adjusting for era, Kurt Kittner in 2003 was almost worse. Kind of astounding. Being that bad must have taken effort. Right after Heath when looking at the bottom of the list is 4 time Super Bowl champion Terry Bradshaw. It sucks that the Steelers didn't give up on him, huh?

Last Place in Adjusted Passer Rating for Every Season

(* denotes player also had at least one season leading in adjusted passer rating)
Year Player Adj PR Rank PR Rank
2014 Jake Locker 47.97 1571 70.95 1124
2013 Josh Freeman 36.87 1672 52.57 1611
2012 Ryan Lindley 26.20 1702 46.72 1658
2011 Caleb Hanie 34.84 1686 41.83 1684
2010 Trent Edwards 34.59 1689 54.93 1579
2009 Derek Anderson 21.08 1708 42.10 1683
2008 Matt Hasselbeck 39.89 1654 57.82 1527
2007 Trent Dilfer 36.58 1674 55.09 1577
2006 Chris Simms 30.77 1700 46.31 1663
2005 Alex Smith 25.55 1703 40.85 1685
2004 Craig Krenzel 36.70 1673 52.54 1613
2003 Kurt Kittner 14.84 1710 32.46 1704
2002 Mike McMahon 39.01 1658 52.37 1616
2001 Ty Detmer 43.34 1622 56.88 1539
2000 Danny Kanell 36.08 1679 49.64 1640
1999 Erik Kramer 34.74 1687 46.65 1661
1998 Ryan Leaf 22.45 1707 38.97 1692
1997 Rick Mirer 20.22 1709 37.68 1695
1996 Glenn Foley 33.07 1694 46.74 1657
1995 Mike Tomczak 35.85 1681 44.34 1674
1994 Bobby Hebert 38.58 1662 51.03 1625
1993 Scott Secules 41.41 1641 54.26 1591
1992 Kelly Stouffer 38.56 1663 47.70 1652
1991 Stan Gelbaugh 37.19 1670 42.13 1682
1990 John Fourcade 35.36 1684 46.08 1666
1989 Troy Aikman 47.19 1580 55.68 1561
1988 Steve Grogan* 36.58 1675 37.62 1696
1987 Mark Malone 40.00 1653 46.68 1660
1986 Mike Tomczak 43.84 1613 50.23 1636
1985 Todd Blackledge 46.01 1596 50.29 1635
1984 Art Schlichter 43.57 1615 46.19 1665
1983 Scott Brunner 52.67 1491 54.29 1590
1982 Joe Ferguson 56.09 1414 56.33 1551
1981 Dan Pastorini 23.74 1706 22.89 1708
1980 Matt Robinson 40.28 1650 39.69 1689
1979 Joe Pisarcik 41.65 1637 39.00 1691
1978 Scott Bull 24.41 1704 22.43 1709
1977 Gary Danielson 40.78 1645 38.13 1694
1976 Kim McQuilken 23.74 1705 21.71 1710
1975 Archie Manning 46.95 1587 44.28 1675
1974 Bob Lee 34.30 1690 32.41 1705
1973 Bert Jones 31.94 1698 28.82 1707
1972 Gary Cuozzo 45.14 538 43.67 489
1971 Bobby Douglass 38.07 556 36.97 525
1970 Terry Bradshaw* 31.31 559 30.35 543
1969 Terry Hanratty 41.60 551 41.73 501
1968 Randy Johnson 43.78 543 42.47 495
1967 Ron Vander Kelen 38.25 555 36.94 526
1966 Terry Nofsinger 42.65 548 41.15 505
1965 Buddy Humphrey 47.98 523 44.78 480
1964 Y.A. Tittle* 55.47 482 51.58 420
1963 King Hill 55.31 484 49.87 438
1962 Sam Etcheverry 50.53 509 42.45 496
1961 Norm Snead 58.98 454 51.61 419
1960 Zeke Bratkowski 44.18 541 40.38 512
1959 Tobin Rote* 32.47 558 26.83 548
1958 Bart Starr* 53.58 491 41.23 504
1957 Babe Parilli 42.22 550 34.76 531
1956 Bobby Thomason 45.60 537 40.73 509
1955 Lamar McHan 49.80 513 34.79 530
1954 Lamar McHan 47.67 526 32.39 535
1953 Babe Parilli 41.07 554 28.51 544
1952 Frank Tripucka 46.65 534 28.27 546
1951 Chuck Ortmann 43.20 546 24.00 553
1950 Tobin Rote* 43.64 544 26.69 549
1949 Stan Heath 12.26 560 0.04 560
1948 Jack Jacobs 45.12 539 27.90 547
1947 Bob Waterfield 61.00 432 39.23 518
1946 Dave Ryan 64.50 397 41.10 506
1945 Paul Christman 63.62 405 42.55 494
1944 John Grigas 49.69 514 31.52 539
1943 Ronnie Cahill 47.02 531 33.14 533
1942 Bud Schwenk 60.48 440 25.53 552
1941 Parker Hall 67.51 359 30.55 541
1940 Billy Patterson 46.21 536 14.10 557
1939 Hugh McCullough 49.36 516 14.29 556
1938 Frank Filchock* 66.00 375 25.58 551
1937 Dave Smukler 63.33 408 21.54 555
1936 Phil Sarboe 74.05 291 30.48 542
1935 Johnny Gildea 42.84 547 12.06 558
1934 Warren Heller 50.44 510 10.53 559
1933 Arnie Herber* 70.74 325 26.21 550
1932 Arnie Herber* 94.12 67 51.55 421
I didn't put Steve Grogan's 1986 season on the other list, but it kind of counts so I gave him an asterick. By my count, three QBs on this list (Aikman, Bradshaw, and Dilfer) have a combined 8 Super Bowl rings as starters. Dan Pastorini also started 5 games for the 1980 Raiders team that won the Super Bowl but Jim Plunkett was the Super Bowl starter and MVP so I didn't count him.
So that's all I've got. If you want to see all the data, once again I invite you to follow this link.
submitted by skepticismissurvival to nfl [link] [comments]


2012.12.19 23:15 smileyman Drafting a QB in the first round is playing the lottery. Success rates of first round QBs drafted since 1990 (excluding 2011 and 2012 first rounders).

rhinoanon's post earlier about the lack of success from the Chiefs in drafting QBs made me wonder what kind of success rate first round QBs actually have. I'm discounting 2011 and 2012 because two years in the NFL isn't enough to determine if a player is successful or not (and honestly I have concerns about using 2010 players too).
Name Year Round Pick Team Success?
Sam Bradford 2010 1st Rams Yes
Tim Tebow 2010 25th Broncos No
Matthew Stafford 2009 1st Lions Yes
Mark Sanchez 2009 5th Jets No
Josh Freeman 2009 17th Buccaneers No
Matt Ryan 2008 3rd Falcons Yes
Joe Flacco 2008 18th Ravens No*
JaMarcus Russell 2007 1st Raiders No
Brady Quinn 2007 22nd Browns No
Vince Young 2006 3rd Titans No*
Matt Leinart 2006 10th Cardinals No
Jay Cutler 2006 11th Broncos Yes
Alex D. Smith 2005 1st 49ers No*
Aaron Rodgers 2005 24th Packers Yes
Jason Campbell 2005 25th Redskins No*
Eli Manning 2004 1st Chargers Yes
Philip Rivers 2004 4th Giants Yes
Ben Roethlisberger 2004 11th Steelers Yes
J.P. Losman 2004 22nd Bills No
Carson Palmer 2003 1st Bengals Yes
Byron Leftwich 2003 7th Jaguars No*
Kyle Boller 2003 19th Ravens No
Rex Grossman 2003 22nd Bears No
David Carr 2002 1st Texans No
Joey Harrington 2002 3rd Lions No
Patrick Ramsey 2002 32nd Redskins No
Michael Vick 2001 1st Falcons Yes
Drew Brees 2001 32nd Chargers Yes
Chad Pennington 2000 18th Jets Yes
Tim Couch 1999 1st Browns No
Donovan McNabb 1999 2nd Eagles Yes
Akili Smith 1999 3rd Bengals No
Daunte Culpepper 1999 11th Vikings No*
Cade McNown 1999 12th Bears No
Peyton Manning 1998 1st Colts Yes
Ryan Leaf 1998 2nd Chargers No
Jim Druckenmiller 1997 26th 49ers No
Steve McNair 1995 3rd Titans Yes
Kerry Collins 1995 5th Panthers Yes
Heath Shuler 1994 3rd Redskins No
Trent Dilfer 1994 6th Buccaneers No*
Drew Bledsoe 1993 1st Patriots Yes
Rick Mirer 1993 2nd Seahawks No
David Klingler 1992 6th Bengals No
Tommy Maddox 1992 25th Steelers No
Dan McGwire 1991 16th Seahawks No
Todd Marinovich 1991 24th Raiders No
Jeff George 1990 1st Colts Yes
Andre Ware 1990 7th Lions No
There have been 50 QBs drafted in the first round between 1990 and 2010. Of those 50 only 18 have had any kind of success in the NFL.
Fun Facts
Here is a list of the teams with the number of QBs drafted in the first round and their success rate.
Division Team Number of QBs Success rate
AFC East Patriots 1 100% (1/1)
AFC East Jets 2 50% (1/2)
AFC East Dolphins 0 N/A
AFC East Bills 1 0% (0/1)
AFC North Ravens 2 0% (0/2)
AFC North Steelers 2 50% (1/2)
AFC North Bengals 3 33% (1/3)
AFC North Browns 2 0% (0/2)
AFC South Texans 1 0% (0/1)
AFC South Jags 0 N/A
AFC South Colts 2 100% (2/2)
AFC South Titans 2 50% (1/2)
AFC West Broncos 2 50% (1/2)
AFC West Raiders 2 50% (1/2)
AFC West Chargers 3 66% (2/3)
AFC West Chiefs 0 N/A
NFC East Giants 1 100% (1/1)
NFC East Eagles 1 100% (1/1)
NFC East Cowboys 0 N/A
NFC East Redskins 3 0% (0/3)
NFC North Packers 1 100% (1/1)
NFC North Bears 2 0% (0/2)
NFC North Lions 3 33% (1/3)
NFC North Vikings 1 0% (0/1)
NFC South Saints 0 N/A
NFC South Falcons 2 100% (2/2)
NFC South Buccaneers 2 0% (0/2)
NFC South Panthers 1 100% (1/1)
NFC West 49ers 2 0% (0/2)
NFC West Seahawks 2 0% (0/2)
NFC West Rams 1 100% (1/1)
NFC West Cardinals 1 0% (0/1)
Edit: I do want to make it clear that when I'm saying that someone is not a success I am not calling them awful or saying that they suck. It's simply a reflection of the success they had based on where they were drafted. For example Alex Smith as the #1 overall pick has not had nearly enough success to justify his draft position.
submitted by smileyman to nfl [link] [comments]


2012.10.03 02:55 polaroidgeek Here is a list I put together of every QB taken in the 1st round since KC last took one in 1983. Listed by team.

Bears: 1987 - J. Harbaugh, 1999 - C. McNown, 2003 - R. Grossman
Bengals: 1992 - D. Klingler, 1999 - A. Smith, 2003 - C. Palmer,
Bills: 1983 - J. Kelly, 2004 - J. Losman
Broncos: 1993 - T. Maddox, 2006 - J. Cutler, 2010 - T. Tebow
Browns: 1985 - B. Kosar (supplemental), 1999 - T. Couch, 2007 - B. Quinn, 2012 - B. Wheeden
Bucaneers : 1994 - T. Dilfer, 1987 - V. Testaverde, 2009 - J. Freeman
Cardinals: 1987 - K. Stouffer, 1989 - T. Rosenbach (supplemental), 2006 - M. Leinart
Chargers: 1998 - R. Leaf, 2004 - E. Manning (traded to Giants)
Chiefs: 1983 - T. Blackledge
Colts: 1983 - J. Elway (traded to Broncos), 1990 - J. George, 1998 - P. Manning, 2012 - A. Luck
Cowboys: 1988 - T. Aikman 1988 - S. Walsh (supplemental)
Dolphins: 1983 - D. Marino, 2012 - R. Tannehill
Eagles: 1999 - D. McNabb
Falcons: 1987 - C. Miller, 2001 - M. Vick, 2008 - M. Ryan
49ers: 1997 - J. Druckenmiller, 2005 - A. Smith
Giants: 1993 - D. Brown (supplemental), 2004 - P. Rivers (traded to Chargers)
Jaguars: 2003 - B. Leftwich, 2011 - B. Gabbert
Jets: 1983 - K. O'Brien, 2000 - C. Pennington, 2009 - M. Sanchez
Lions: 1986 - C. Long, 1990 - A. Ware, 2002 - J. Harrington, 2009 - M. Stafford
Packers: 2005 - A. Rodgers
Panthers: 1995 - K. Collins 2011 - C. Newton
Patriots 1983 - T. Eason, 1993 - D. Bledsoe
Raiders: 1991 - T. Marinovich, 2007 - J. Russell
Rams: 2010 - S. Bradford
Ravens: 2003 - K. Boller, 2008 - J. Flacco
Redskins: 1994 - H . Shuler, 2002 - P. Ramsey, 2005 - J. Campbell, 2012 - R. Griffin III
Saints: (zero fucks given)
Seahawks: 1991 - D. McGwire, 1993 - R. Mirer
Steelers: 2004 - B. Roethlisberger
Texans: 2002 - D. Carr
Titans: 1986 - J. Everett (Oilers), 1995 - S. McNair (oilers), 2006 - V. Young, 2010 - J. Locker
Vikings: 1999 - D. Culpepper, 2011 - C. Ponder
When it comes to rolling the dice and trying to nab a franchise QB in the first round, the only organization I could find who gives fewer fucks than KC is the Saints, who haven't drafted a QB in the first round since Archie Goddamn Manning. So while we're all bitching about Cassel I just wanted to illustrate that even though it's blindingly obvious we need to draft a QB in the 1st round April, it's not gonna happen. Please feel free to point out any mistakes I may have made in putting this together.
submitted by polaroidgeek to KansasCityChiefs [link] [comments]


2011.11.06 07:36 iKn0wr1gHt So I'm bored and sober and decided to make a list of each team's most recent first round QB bust.

Alphabetically even.
Arizona Cardinals - Matt Leinert - 10th overall pick - 2006 - We all know about him.
Atlanta Falcons - Randy Johnson - 16th overall pick - 1966 - Only threw for 1200 yards in 7 seasons in the league.
Baltimore Ravens - Kyle Boller - 19th overall pick - 2003 - Pretty bad seeing as how the Raiders traded 2 first rounders to not deal with him.
Buffalo Bills - JP Losman - 22nd overall pick - 2004 - Fun fact about the Bills, they only drafted 2 QBs in the first round Jim Kelly and this guy.
Carolina Panthers - Kerry Collins - 5th overall pick - 1995 - Collins wasn't a bust per sé but he was a journeyman and he only stayed with the team that drafted him for 3 years, which for where he was drafted that probably shouldn't have happened.
Chicago Bears - Rex Grossman - 22nd overall pick - 2003 - I wanted to put Cade McNown here because he was drafted higher but this is for most recent so I'll go with Rex, even though he started a super bowl they got there in spite of Rex.
Cincinnati Bengals - Kabisa Akili Maradufu Smith - 3rd overall pick - 1999 - Was pretty bad, dropped by the Bengals after three years and was out of the league pretty much at the end of the year.
Cleveland Browns - Brady Quinn - 22nd overall pick - 2007 - I still think he really wasn't given a chance but was traded by his third year in the league and is now a Bronco. Also wanted to note that Tim Couch is a much bigger bust, everyone and their mom already knows.
Dallas Cowboys - None - They have 2 QBs drafted in the first round Troy Aikman and a guy named Craig Morton. Morton didn't make any probowls but he was with the team for 9 seasons, and led the team to a super bowl. Why didn't I add him to the list? Well according to Wikipedia he is "... is one of the all time leaders in yards per completion." and that's a pretty good stat to be one of the leaders on so the Cowboys don't have a QB bust... yet.
Denver Broncos - Tim Tebow - 25th overall pick - 2010 - Not sure why I included his wikipedia page but I guess a fun fact about the Denver Broncos they only drafted 3 QBs in the first and 2 of them were the 25th overall pick. Tebow, and Tommy Maddox who I also would probably have labled as a bust status.
Detroit Lions - Joey Harrington - 3rd overall pick - 2002 - Not sure if he was Millen's first pick but what a way to start a drafting legacy eh Lions fans?
Green Bay Packers - Rich Campbell - 6th overall pick - 1981 - When we talk about huge draft busts why don't we talk about this guy? Only 3 tds and 300 yards for being a top 10 pick? ಠ_ಠ
Houston Texans - David Carr - 1st overall pick - 2002 - He literally got sacked to death.
Indianapolis Colts - Jeff George - 1st overall pick - 1990 - Left the colts by year 3 and then became a journeyman, not what you'd expect out of a number 1 overall pick.
Jacksonville Jaguars - Byron Leftwich - 7th overall pick - 2003 - Poor Byron, cannon arm, terribly slow throwing motion did him in.
Kansas City Chiefs - Todd Blackledge - 7th overall pick - 1983 - Out of the league in about 6 years is a pretty good way to earn a bust status specially when you were 7th overall. Also ಠ_ಠ Byron Leftwich was the 7th overall pick 20 years later... You cursed us Chiefs!
Miami Dolphins - None - The only two QBs they drafted are hall of famers (Dan Marino) (Bob Griese) and they have a shot at getting Luck ಠ_ಠ
Minnesota Vikings - None - They have drafted 3 QBs in the first round, Christian Ponder, Daunte Culpepper, and Tommy Kramer, Kramer made the pro bowl at least once and was apparently famous for making tons of game winning drives plus he was with the team for a solid 12 years.
New England Patriots - Tony Eason - 15th overall pick - 1983 - So he did lead the pats to the super bowl (fun fact every QB the Pats have drafted in the first led a team to a Super Bowl, Jim Plunkett was drafted in the first round but led the Raiders to Super Bowls) however not only did he not complete a pass in that game, he was out of the league about 5 years later.
New Orleans Saints - None - They have only drafted 1 QB in the first round that's Archie Manning.
New York Giants - Lee Grosscup - 10th overall pick - 1956 - Only played for the Giants for 2 years before going to play for the New York Titans (now the Jets)
New York Jets - Richard Todd - 6th overall pick - 1976 - "...In his first five seasons, he threw more interceptions than touchdowns and was booed by fans and the press"
Oakland Raiders - JaMarcus Russell - 1st overall pick - 2007 - Lulz goes here
Philadelphia Eagles - John Reaves - 14th overall pick - 1972 - Only played for the iggles for 2 years and was kicked around the league after that.
Pittsburgh Steelers - Johnny Lattner - 7th overall pick - 1954 - Poor guy only played one season joined the airforce then had a career ending injury.
San Diego Chargers - Ryan Leaf - 2nd overall pick - 1999 - Pretty bad draft pick was pretty bad.
San Francisco 49ers - Jim Druckenmiller - 26th overall pick - 1997 - If I did this earlier this year I would've put Alex Smith but he seems to have resurrected his career, so this guy will have to do. Only played one season for the niners before going out and doing his own thing or something.
Seattle Seahawks - Rick Mirer - 2nd overall pick - 1993 - Was only with the hawks for 3 years before getting shitcanned.
St Louis Rams - Terry Baker - 1st overall pick - 1963 - Only played 3 years in the league with the Rams
Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Trent Dilfer - 6th overall pick - 1994 - Really tempted to put none here as well because he did make the pro bowl and won a super bowl (albiet he had nothing to do with the super bowl win) I don't know about this to be honest. What do you guys think? The other QB draft picks they had were Josh Freeman, Vinny Testaverde, and Doug Williams.
Tennessee Titans - Vince Young - 3rd Overall pick - 2006 - Sure he won OROY, and had a pro bowl nomination but he's still probably one of the worst QBs drafted in the top 10 this past decade. Dude couldn't really throw to win.
Washington Redskins - Heath Schuler - 3rd overall pick - 1994 - So I know Patrick Ramsey was chosen in the first round and would also be considered the most recent bust but fuck it, he was 32nd overall and I'm tired haha. Heath Schuler was also god awful.
EDIT: Changed the Patriots mistake.
submitted by iKn0wr1gHt to nfl [link] [comments]


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