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2024.05.21 15:01 FelicitySmoak_ Tuesday, May 21, 2013 - Jackson v. AEG Live Day 15

Tuesday, May 21, 2013 - Jackson v. AEG Live Day 15
Trial Day 15
Katherine, Rebbie and Trent Jackson are at court.
LA Times reported that the Jacksons offered a settlement.
Kevin Boyle , a lawyer for Katherine Jackson and Michael's kids , said they offered to settle the lawsuit against AEG, but that they never got an answer. Kevin Boyle said the family made the offers in January & March. Boyle would not provide details but said AEG's insurance would have paid, which means they could have settled the case without them paying a dime of their money. He said AEG has never offered to settle & they haven't apologized.
Marvin Putnam, an attorney for AEG, said it was inappropriate to discuss settlement discussions:
"We don't settle matters that are utterly baseless. We believe that is the case in this matter. I can't see why we would consider a settlement as anything other than a shakedown"
CNN Reports there was a snack controversy during trial: AEG lawyers gave a bag of peppermint candy to the bailiff to hand out to the jury this week. Even Katherine Jackson enjoyed the treat but Jackson's lawyer raised an objection, suggesting jurors might be influenced if they realized the source of the sweets. A compromise was reached. Each side can provide snacks for jurors, but they'll be placed at the bailiff's desk before jurors enter court so they have no clue who brought it.
Shawn Trell Testimony
Jackson direct
AEG Live General Counsel, Shawn Trell, told jurors that he had forgotten that Kenny Ortega was working under a signed contract.
Trell said he met with his attorneys last night and reviewed one doc -- Kenny Ortega's contract.
"He had a written contract," Trell said. "I remember the email dynamic. I'm not too proud to admit that I didn't recall the cover contract," Trell said he was changing his previous testimony to add that Ortega had a written contract, not only emails between him and AEG
Next topic was Insurance: Cancellation/Non-Appearance/Sickness. Trell said he started working on insurance for the tour in November of 2008. Panish showed several chains of emails where the parties talked about the insurance for the tour
Email from Bob Taylor insurance broker to Trell on 1/7/09:
"Prior to speaking with carriers we ask the artist to attend medical with a doctor...A full medical with both blood/urine tests. The doctor also wants to review the medical records over the last 5 years to ensure full disclosure. Insurers require further medical examination to be carried out by their nominated doctor. They may restrict illness coverage or death from illness coverage until this examination has taken place"
Email from 4/30/09 - Wooley to Trell :
"We have no coverage against Michael sickness unless and until he submits to another medical in London
Email from 5/28/09 - Trell to Taylor:
"We really need to get that medical done"
Email from 6/23/09 - Trell to Taylor :
"Any update on the availability of Term insurance?" (life insurance)
Trell said if they secured life insurance, they would get money if Michael died.
"We would get the money owed to us, yes," Trell testified.
Trell also said he continued discussions with an insurance broker about additional coverage to recoup AEG Live's investment if the tour had to be canceled.
Email from 6/24/09 -Taylor to Trell :
"Insurers have refused to move on this. Huge amount of speculation in the media regarding artist's health. They feel if they're to consider providing illness to cover this particular artist, they must have very through medical report"
Email from 6/25/09 - Gongaware to Taylor :
"If we don't get sickness coverage, we are dropping this policy"
Email from 6/25/09 - Taylor to Gongaware :
"The consultation in London is critical. The doctor is holding the afternoon of the 6th July open at Harley St. But keep in mind the visit could take 2 hours plus"
Next topic: Budget/Costs. Panish showed an email from AEG's Rick Webking to Michael's estate with 1st report of artist advances/expenses. This was a letter sent to the estate containing the expenses incurred, Trell said.
"It seems to me we submitted this report for their review, I don't see any request for payment," Trell said.
Trell said he spoke with Randy Phillips and Paul Gongaware about Michael's physical condition prior to coming to testify.
"I had heard about rehearsals in which Mr. Jackson was fantastic," Trell said
Trell said he's aware of email from Ortega saying doctor was not allowing Michael to attend rehearsal on June 14, 2009.
"I was aware of the doctor not allowing him to attend rehearsal," Trell said
Email from 6/17/09 from Phillips:
"...Ortega, Gongaware, Dileo, and his doctor Conrad from Vegas and I have an intervention with him to get him to focus and come to rehearsal"
Email from 6/17/09 from Gongaware to Phillip's assistant:
"We need a physical therapist and a nutritionist"
Email from Production Manager - Gongaware/Phillips on 6/19/09 :
"Paul/Randy I'm not bring a drama queen here. Kenny asked me to notify you both Michael was sent home without stepping foot on stage. He was a basket case and Kenny was concerned he would embarrass himself on stage, or worse yet, be hurt. The company is rehearsing right now, but the DOUBT is pervasive"
Email from Randy Phillips to Tim Leiweke on 6/19/09 :
"We have a huge problem here."
"I think he recognized there was a problem on the 19th," Trell said. "I would take it seriously, as I believe Mr. Phillips did."
Trell agreed with a statement by plaintiff's attorney, Brian Panish, that company executives knew by then there was a "deep issue" with Jackson
Does Trell consider that exchange a "red flag" that AEG Live should have noticed, Panish asked.
"I would take it seriously, as I believe Mr. Phillips did," Trell answered. "I don't know I would use the word 'red flag'
One of the emails shown to the jury was from Jackson estate co-executor John Branca, sent 5 days before Jackson's death & marked 'confidential':
"I have the right therapist/spiritual advisosubstance abuse counselor who could help (recently helped Mike Tyson get sober and paroled) Do we know whether there is a substance issue involved (perhaps better discussed on the phone)
The email was sent the same day that a meeting was held at Jackson's home with Murray. No further info given to jury.
Trell said Mr. Phillips never told him about this email
Email from Ortega to Randy Phillips on 6/20/09: (chain of emails)
"I honestly don't think he is ready for this based on his continued physical weakening and deepening emotional state"
Trell said he didn't see these emails. He said he spoke with Randy Phillips about Phillips' perception of Michael, in order to prepare for testifying, but not about specific emails. Trell has been designated as the most qualified person to speak on behalf of AEG
Email from Phillips to Gongaware on 6/20/09 at 1:52 am :
"Tim and I are going to see him tomorrow, however, I'm not sure what the problem is Chemical or Physiological?"
From Gongaware to Phillips, on 6/20/09 at 5:59 am :
"Take the doctor with you. Why wasn't he there last night?"
From Phillips to Gongaware, on 6/20/09 at 2:01 pm :
"He is not a psychiatrist so I'm not sure how effective he can be at this point obviously, getting him there is not the issue. It is much deeper"
Trell said Randy Phillips went to a handful of rehearsals, three at the Forum and two at Staples Center. The head of the marketing department attended rehearsal on June 23, 2009.
"She was blown away by it," Trell testified.
He said he was unaware of issues with Jackson at rehearsals.
"I knew of no problems with Michael Jackson at all",Trell testified.
Trell said he never saw the emails from Phillips directing people to exclude images from This Is It of Michael looking "skeletal" while rehearsing.
"What were his observations of Michael's physical condition during rehearsal," Trell said. "I asked for his (Phillips) personal opinion."
Next line of questioning is about human resources and background checks. Trell said they can be valuable and useful tools when hiring. Background check costs around $40 to $125. Trell said AEG Live could afford this fee. "We don't do background checks on independent contractors," Trell said. Trell said he was involved in the hiring by AEG Live for the This Is It tour. His department was responsible for retaining independent contractors. Trell said he is not familiar with background check process for hiring.
"I am not familiar with the process of doing background checks," Trell said. "No training."

Panish: "There was no hiring criteria for the This Is It tour, correct?"
Trell: "Not to my knowledge"
Trell testified that when it comes to independent contractors, they have either worked with the artists, AEG or known in the industry. Trell agreed that no background check was done on anyone working on the This Is It tour. AEG Live General Counsel Shawn Trell told jurors that no legal or financial checks were done involving Conrad Murray or anyone else who worked as an independent contractor on the This Is It shows.
Depending on the nature of the position, a background could be done, Trell said, like for potential employees in the financial area. Trell said he thought a background check would be appropriate for people working in financial roles, but not tour personnel who weren't employees of AEG
As to independent contractors, Trell said there's no supervision and monitoring like there's for employees
Panish: "You don't do anything to check into background, supervise or protect the artist?"
Trell: "No, safety is a concern"
Trell said that AEG did not hire Murray, that the doctor was like many independent contractors,
"When they leave the environment, what they do on their own time is their own business"
Trell testified he doesn't believe the artist is more at risk because AEG Live doesn't do background checks
"We did nothing to monitor Dr. Murray," Trell said. "We did not monitor whatever it was that he was doing, no."
"It called for Michael Jackson being able to terminate Dr. Murray at will," Trell said about the contract. "If the concerts didn't go forward, and he was terminated under this provision, Dr. Murray would not be paid going forward," Trell explained
As to Dr Murray being under dire financial straits, Trell said that he doesn't know if he agrees with it, everyone's perception is different
Trell: "I certainly wasn't aware of it at the time"
Panish: "Because you didn't check, right?"
Trell: "That's right"
"I don't think conflict of interests are a good thing, and we would want to prevent it," Trell said
Email from Kathy Jorie to Shawn Trell on 6/24/09 at 12:54 am:
Subject: Revised agreement with GCA Holdings/Dr. MurrayIt had two attachments Attachments: Revised Michael Jackson -AEG GCA Holdings Murray Agreement 6-18-09 Final MJ -- AEG GCA Holdings Agreement (Dr. Murray) 6-23-09
Email chain from 6/23/09, 5:39pm from Jorrie to Wooley, Murray
Subject: RE: Michael Jackson - Revised Agreement with GCA Holdings/Dr. Murray Email:
"I have redlined the Word version so that you can see all of the revisions. In addition, I've attached clean PDF version for execution" (The email says that if Dr. Murray approved it, he was to print it, sign and send it back to Jorrie)

Panish: "Did Ms. Jorrie call this contract a draft?"
Trell: "She called it a Final Version"
"Every document is a draft until it is executed," Trell said.
Panish showed emails exchanged among AEG executives that contained drafts of Murray's contract. Although Murray had signed a contract with the company, neither Jackson nor anyone from AEG had added their signatures. Trell testified that a copy of the contract had never been sent to Jackson
With Trell on the stand, Panish played part of an interview that AEG Live President Randy Phillips gave to Sky News television soon after Michael's death.
"This guy was willing to leave his practice for a very large sum of money, so we hired him," Phillips said.
Panish also showed jurors an e-mail between AEG lawyers suggesting that Phillips told other interviewers AEG Live "hired" Murray.
Panish: "Isn't it true that Randy Phillips made numerous comments that AEG Live hired Dr. Murray?"
Trell: "I know he has made that statement"
Panish said AEG higher-ups became concerned after Phillips made such admission. Trell said he didn't know if that was true. Bruce Black is the General Counsel for parent company of AEG and AEG Live. Michael Roth is AEG's media relations
Email from Kathy Jorrie to Bruce Black and Michael Roth on 8/25/09:
Subject: AEG Live president says AEG Live hired Dr. Conrad Murray
Panish shows Trell a deposition, under oath, given by insurance broker Bob Taylor on another case. Trell said he has never seen or read it. Trell denied having a telephone conversation with Mr. Taylor where Trell asked him if a doctor's compensation was covered in the insurance.
Panish: "Does that refresh your recollection that AEG was employing Dr. Murray?"
Trell: "Mr. Taylor has this completely wrong"
After lunch break, Brian Panish asked if Shawn Trell wanted to change anything else in his testimony, to which he said "No"
Bruce Black, attorney for Anschutz, was present in the meeting with LAPD. Trell met with the police on 1/12/10. Trell told the police that day that Dr. Murray would receive $150,000 compensation per month. Trell also said that Dr. Murray requested and AEG would provide necessary medical equipment and a nurse. More than five months after Jackson's death, Trell said, he informed LAPD detectives that Murray initially requested $5 million to join the tour but eventually agreed to a salary of $150,000 a month for 10 months.
Panish: "As far as you know, all the agreements written for TII tour was done under AEG Live Productions, right?"
Trell: "Yes"
Panish: "Was Dr. Murray trying to help AEG get insurance?"
Trell: "The policy was in both names, so he was helping both parties"
Trell said Dennis Hawk, who represented Michael, was in touch with Taylor regarding the insurance
Panish: "As of June 2009, you don't even know whether Mr. Jackson had a personal manager
working for him, right?"
Trell: "Well, my understanding at the time there were a couple of people acting in that capacity"
Email on 6/2/09 from Randy Phillips to Jeff Wald:
"Jeff, remember getting Michael to focus is not the easiest thing in the world and we still have no lawyer, business manager, or, even real manager in place. It is a nightmare!"
Trell said the only time he saw an artist's signature required to retain an independent contractor was for Dr. Murray. Trell said his understanding was that Dr. Murray worked for Michael for 3 years; didn't know how many times MJ saw Dr. Murray.
"I've never spoken with Dr. Murray ever. And I met/spoke with Mr. Jackson once," Trell said.

"He was a significant expense," Trell testified about Dr. Murray.
Trell said AEG Live didn't do anything to check Dr. Murray's competency as doctor, other than checking his physician license. Trell said AEG didn't do anything to determine Dr. Murray's financial conditions in 2009.
Jury was shown an email that Phillips sent to Kenny Ortega on night of June 20, 2009. It was email urging Ortega to stand down.
Email on 6/20/09 Phillips to Ortega :
"Kenny it's critical that neither you, me, anyone around this show become amateur psychiatrist/physicians. I had a lengthy conversation with Dr. Murray, who I am gaining immense respect for as I get to deal with him more. He said that Michael is not only physically equipped to perform & discouraging him to will hasten his decline instead of stopping it. Dr. Murray also reiterated that he is mentally able to and was speaking to me from the house where he had spent the morning with Michael. This doctor is extremely successful (we check everyone out) and does not need this gig so he is totally unbiased and ethical"
Panish asked Trell whether Phillips "characterization to Ortega, given no background check was done, was a lie". Trell responded that he didn't know what Phillips knew or was thinking when he wrote that email to Ortega. Trell also said he expected Randy Phillips to testify at some point during the trial, so he could address the email himself
Panish then asked Trell, "Sir, you never checked out one single thing about Dr. Murray -- you've already told me that, correct?"
"As of the date of the email, that would've been correct",Trell said.
When pressed by Panish, Trell said that Phillips' statement that Murray had been checked out, along with the executive's claim that the doctor 'does not need this gig' were inaccurate.
"I don't know where Randy's understanding or impression comes from", Trell said.
Trell testified that Phillips might have been "misinformed" or simply was stating his impression of the Las Vegas cardiologist
Panish: "But no one at AEG checked Dr. Murray to see if he was successful or not, isn't that true?"
Trell: "Yes"
Panish then asked several pointed questions about whether Shawn Trell agreed with Phillips telling Ortega they'd checked Murray out. One of Panish's questions was whether Trell thought Phillips' email was 'acceptable conduct'
Panish called Phillips' statement "a flat out lie" and asked Trell whether he agreed with it or if it signified how AEG did business. Trell said he didn't know what Phillips thought he knew when he wrote the message.
"I know this statement is not accurate, but you'd have to speak with Mr. Phillips about what he thought or meant in saying it," Trell said.

Panish: "That's a flat out lie, isn't it sir?"
Trell: "I don't know what Mr. Phillips intended to say, this should be a question to him"
Panish: "You don't know if he was successful or facing bankruptcy, did you?"
Trell: "No"
Trell: "I know the statement is not accurate. You have to speak with Mr. Phillips about what he meant to say"
Panish: "Do you agree with the CEO of your company making untrue statements?"
Trell: "I don't know that he didn't know it wasn't true when he said it"
Trell said Phillips never told him that he checked Dr. Murray out. As to reference in Phillips' email about Dr. Murray being unbiased, ethical, not needing this gig, Trell said it was Phillips' impressions. He said AEG typically only runs background checks on candidates applying for full-time jobs with AEG, not independent contractors.
Panish: "Isn't it true AEG Live does not do background check on independent contractors?"
Trell: "That's true"
Trell said that no one from AEG interviewed Dr. Murray because he was an independent contractor.
"Did anyone from AEG ever at any time interview Dr. Murray", asked Brian Panish
"No", Trell replied.
Panish showed a document used by AEG entitled "Disclosure and Authorization to Conduct Background Check". Doc is used for employment, promotion, retention, contingent or the rate staffing, consulting, sub-contract work, or volunteer work. Panish asked if there was any reason why Dr. Murray was not given a background check.
"He wasn't an employee, he wasn't applying for a full time position with the company," Trell explained.
Trell said theoretically they could've asked to check Dr. Murray's background and credit.
AEG Cross
Jessica Bina began her examination by showing the letter submitted by AEG's CFO to the Estate of Michael Jackson for their review. She asked Shawn Trell about the estimate presented to Jackson's estate that included Murray's $300k fees. She asked why it was prepared. Shawn Trell said it was done at the request of the estate. He said Jackson's estate wanted to know state of tour finances when Jackson died. Trell said the report was requested by the Estate after a series of meetings after Michael's death.
"The purpose of the meeting was to wind up the business affairs of the tour due to Michael's death", Trell said. "It was my understating in June Tohme was back in the picture in some capacity. I'm not sure which, Mr. DiLeo was in it too," Trell said
Bina: "Is there any request for payment?"
Trell: "No, there's no demand for payment, it's for review"
Stebbins Bina asked about the inclusion of Murray's fee in the document. Bina showed the report that was attached to the letter. Murray's fee on the document had a footnote. Trell read what that footnote said, and explained why estate wasn't asked for Murray's fee. Next to "Management Medical" there's a reference to footnote 3.
Note 3: 'Contract is not signed by Michael Jackson and such signature was condition precedent to any payment obligation' - Footnote on Murray fee.
Trell testified Webking, the CFO for AEG, did not ask Michael's Estate for payment of Dr. Murray's salary
"You testified you were somewhat confused (by the inclusion of the $300,000)?", Bina asked Trell as she projected the list, dated July 17, 2009, on a screen for jurors.
"Do you see there's something in parentheses?', Stebbins Bina asked, zooming in to blow up a footnote from AEG CFO Frederick Webking that stated Michael Jackson never signed Murray's contract, so its terms were not enforceable.
"Is Mr. Webking asking the estate to pay?", Stebbins Bina asked Trell. "No", he replied, explaining that upon reflection he believed Mr. Webking was just being 'thorough' by including the $300,000 as a budgeted cost.
"Did Mr. Webking make a mistake as you thought yesterday?",she asked.
"No, he did not", Trell answered
Second report made to the Estate on 9/18/09, there was no amount next to management medical. Stebbins Bina then showed a Sept. 2009 report of This Is It's finances to Michael Jackson's estate. Murray's fee is not listed in that document
Trell went through his job description with AEG. He said he has five lawyers in his department and has worked on thousands of agreements. Trell explained what PMK is -- Person Most Knowledgeable, identified by the company to testify on its behalf. Trell said he didn't know about all the topics he was designated, so he had to do some studying and interviews with people
As to Ortega's contract, Trell said he was aware of a string of emails being at least a part of the original agreement with Kenny.
"When we were done here yesterday, I looked at Kenny Ortega's original agreement," Trell said.
Trell noted he hadn't looked at Ortega's agreement since it was entered into in 2009. Before the afternoon break, Trell and jury were shown Kenny Ortega's tour agreement. It was signed in April 2009. The agreement was three pages of legalese, with several pages of emails attached that confirmed the terms. The first three pages included some paragraphs that described who owned the rights to This Is It content. A large number of emails are part of the agreement as exhibits. Trell said he recalled the emails exchange and admitted again not being proud of forgetting the cover contract portion. Bina showed Ortega's executed contract with everyone's signature on it. Trell said Kenny Ortega was paid after his contract was signed.
Trell, Phillips and Kathy Jorrie were involved in drafting and negotiating the contract with Michael Jackson. For MJ, Trell said Dr. Tohme Tohme and attorneys Dennis Hawk and Peter Lopez represented him. He said there were multiple drafts.
"It's my understanding they were talking to, or at least receiving offers from, a competitive of ours, Live Nation," Trell said.
Trell also said that before signing an agreement with AEG, Jackson had been considering a tour offer from its main competitor, Live Nation.
Bina showed the jury the final tour agreement. Trell said he went to MJ's home at Carolwood to sign it. Upon arrival, Trell said Mr. Jackson got up from where he was seated, and said 'Hi, welcome, I'm Michael." Trell said it was pretty funny, since he was a very distinct person. Trell said they shook hands, he had a good firm handshake and his voice was not what people think
"He popped up, came over, introduced himself, was very cordial, there was a real positive energy, good vibe in the room," Trell said. "He seemed genuinely enthused," Trell added. "He had the contract in front of him, said he read every page, seemed very enthused." Trell said they all signed it and Mr. Jackson was really keen on the 3-D stuff, that he was already down the road in his mind. "I was probably there just a little less than an hour. And that was the only time I met him," Trell recalled.
Bina discussed the contract for the tour agreement:
A first class performance by Artist at each show on each of the approved itineraries. Contract:
Artist shall perform no less than 80 minutes at each show, and the maximum show length for each show shall be 3.5 hours. Artist shall approve a sufficient number of shows on itineraries proposed by promoter or producer as to recoup the advances made.
Trell said compensation was agreed on 90-10 split. Artist received 90% of what's defined contingent compensation.
Trell explained to jury how concerts get paid for. One scenario is artist pays for production up front. A second scenario is that the promoter gives artist an advance, and then they use the money to put together the show. The third option, Trell said, is the artist pays someone like AEG Live to produce and promote the show, with costs to come out of their pay. Trell called the second and third option like an interest-free loan. In Jackson's case, AEG agreed to a 90/10 split of show's proceeds. Jackson would have received the 90% portion, Trell said. Jackson was also on the hook for a 5% production fee
AEG Live was promoter & producer.
"We advanced the money necessary to mount the tour," Trell explained. "It's interest free money".
Trell testified that Jackson's advance, which covered his $100,000-a-month rent on his mansion and a $3-million payment to settle a lawsuit that would free up his performance rights, was considered a loan to be paid back to AEG.
Part of the advance was to pay off the settlement agreement of $3 million in London court. The underlying dispute was that a company owned the rights for Jackson's live performance.
"The rights needed to be freed up," Trell said.
The advances were to be paid back to AEG Live before the split of revenue. Production Advances were capped to $7.5 million. Contract:
Artist was responsible for all the production costs in excess of the cap and had to reimburse promoter.
"Michael Jackson was known to have very elaborate productions," Trell said. "Production values can get significant, for lack of a better word, it really depends on how many bells and whistles they want," Trell said.
Trell said AEG would not advance money without the artist requesting it.
Trell said it's not only typical and customary, but standard and artist needs to secure either non-appearance or cancellation insurance. Their interest in the policy, Trell said, was to cover the advances and production costs incurred with the production of the show.
"If the were no obligations to AEG, the payout would go back to the artist", Trell explained, "It just recoups our loan made to the artist."
Trell was also asked about elements of tour insurance policies and an agreement with former manager Tohme Tohme. Jackson's contract called for him to represent to AEG that he didn't have any health conditions that would keep him from performing.
Contract:
Artistco hereby represents and warrants that artist does not possess any known health conditions, injuries or ailments that would reasonable be expected to interfere with Artist's first class performance at each of the shows during the term
Oh Tohme's $100k per month agreement, Trell was shown a January contract that Jackson signed to pay that amount. However, Trell said Tohme's agreement was predicated on Jackson getting tour cancellation insurance by a certain date. Deadline passed and by that point Tohme was no longer Jackson's manager, so he wasn't entitled to be paid his monthly fee.
January 24, 2009 -- agreement entered with Dr. Tohme Tohme. Trell said Michael was involved and signed this agreement. "This agreement was entered into January 26, Trell testified.
"There are conditions that needed to be met before any payment could be made."
One of the the conditions was placement of non-appearance insurance, Trell said. That placement was done in late April, early May. In May, AEG received letter from MJ saying Tohme didn't rep him anymore.
"No payments were ever made under this agreement," Trell explained.
Court Transcript
Rebbie Jackson attending court
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submitted by FelicitySmoak_ to WhereWasMJToday [link] [comments]


2024.05.21 10:12 IcePopsicleDragon Senua's Saga: Hellblade I Review Thread

Game Information

Game Title: Senua's Saga: Hellblade II
Platforms:
Trailers:
Developer: Ninja Theory
Publisher: Xbox Game Studios
Review Aggregator:
OpenCritic - 84 average - 86% recommended - 55 reviews
MetaCritic - 81 average - 34 reviews

Critic Reviews

AltChar - Asmir Kovacevic - 95 / 100
Few games in recent times have been able to do what Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 has done: make me feel so engaged and immersed that I wish the feeling would never stop. It is a game that will keep you in constant awe throughout the playtime with its fantastic and mysterious story, incredible graphic and sound presentation and realistic and brutal combat that will keep you on the edge of your seat the entire time.
But Why Tho? - Mick Abrahamson - 7.5 / 10
Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II won’t be for everyone. But if you are looking for a brutal continuation of a fantastic story that feels like you’re actually playing a movie, you’ll have a great time here.
CGMagazine - Justin Wood - 7 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 starts incredibly strong in the first half, but after certain revelations, the story speeds up to a point where the conclusion feels rushed and half-baked.
COGconnected - Mark Steighner - 95 / 100
It has been a very long time since I played a game as assured, polished, and emotionally affecting as Senua’s Saga: Hellblade 2.
Cerealkillerz - Steve Brieller - German - 7.9 / 10
If you expect an immersive but not so interactive “game”, Senua’s Saga Hellblade II delivers a short yet intense experience. Ninja Theory has once again skillfully created an impressive atmosphere, as they did in Senua’s Sacrifice. Unfortunately, the issues remain as well: Puzzles and combat are too easy and there is no variety in either. So please keep in mind, that this is more a Hellblade 1.5 than a true sequel.
Checkpoint Gaming - Charlie Kelly - 10 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is well worth the wait and is a serious game of the year contender. Senua's follow-up journey is the best exploration of mental health that we've seen in games to date, using incredibly striking visual imagery, metaphors and immersive soundscapes to have you feel right there next to her. In what has to be the most photo-realistic game of all time, you're guaranteed to be constantly taken by the hero's adventure as you take in the beautiful and often haunting Viking Iceland. Through mud and dirt, blood and bones, Senua and Ninja Theory in turn bare all to you, the player. A masterpiece, benchmark and magnum opus, Hellblade II is crucial storytelling you won't soon forget.
Console Creatures - Patrick Tremblay - Recommended
With Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2, Ninja Theory shows that video games can be more than simple entertainment: they can be profound artistic and emotional explorations, capable of touching and transforming those who play them. This is an unforgettable journey into the heart of Iceland's darkness, where every step of Senua is a step towards self-discovery.
Digital Trends - Tomas Franzese - 4 / 5
Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 is a visual stunner for Xbox even if its gameplay isn't too creative.
Echo Boomer - David Fialho - Portuguese - Essential
Ninja Theory has finally delivered the long-awaited and provocative sequel to Hellblade, with one of the most impressive interactive cinematic experiences of the generation, which makes you question what is real and leaves you dreaming of the graphic potential of future games still on current consoles.
Enternity.gr - Christos Chatzisavvas - Greek - 9.5 / 10
With Senua's Saga: Hellblade II, Ninja Theory builds the game it dreamed of, creating a title on a larger scale than any other.
Eurogamer - Johnny Chiodini - 5 / 5
Hellblade 2 continues Senua's story with grace, confidence, surprising brutality and thundering conviction.
GAMES.CH - Olaf Bleich - German - 89%
The game sucks you skin and hair into its fantasy world and creates such an intense bond with the characters and their stories that you want to know at every second how the adventure ends.
Game Informer - Marcus Stewart - 9 / 10
Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II’s conclusion ends on another strong note, and despite my initial reservations about continuing Senua’s story, I walked away happy to see her conquer new monsters, both literal and metaphorical.
GameSpot - Jess Cogswell - 6 / 10
Hellblade 2 is perhaps the most visually remarkable Xbox title to date, but is ultimately undermined by its emphasis on fidelity over story and gameplay.
GamingTrend - Cassie Peterson - 95 / 100
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is a stunning and immersive storytelling experience that really puts the player into the mind of its titular character. It's even more narratively-focused than the first game (not to its detriment), with a bigger emphasis on how Senua sees and interacts with the world around her. The whole experience from start to finish has been beyond memorable.
Generación Xbox - Pedro del Pozo - Spanish - 9.3 / 10
Ninja Theory manages to place Senua in the Olympus of videogames with the most visually and sonorously powerful game we have seen so far. A spectacular, stunning and awe-inspiring journey.
IGN - Tristan Ogilvie - 8 / 10
Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II is another Viking-worthy feast for the senses that meets the high bar set by its predecessor, even if it never really manages to clear it.
INVEN - Soojin Kim - Korean - 8.5 / 10
The game's high level of immersion makes you want to play it from start to finish in one sitting. With outstanding audiovisual presentation and effects, it gives the feeling that you're playing a movie, not watching it. However, the gameplay elements, such as combat and puzzles, still lack significant meaning, which leads to rather disappoint feelings.
Kakuchopurei - Jonathan Leo - 80 / 100
While the story & gameplay's broad strokes might be familiar, Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2's execution, perspective, and overall production values are just stellar and highlights Ninja Theory's strengths in delivering what it does best: story-heavy cinematic gaming. The characters are fleshed out and well-written, with proper focus on your main character and her turmoils that carry over from the first game, the fighting feels weighty and challenging without being completely frustrating, and the HUD-less approach to presentation is welcome.
Kotaku - Claire Jackson - Unscored
A spellbinding meditation on anguish and compassion, Hellblade II delivers one of the most gripping interactive and sensory experiences of 2024
Merlin'in Kazanı - Murat Oktay - Turkish - 89 / 100
The chaotic story of Senua continues. We set out to take revenge on the Viking raiders who have inflicted devastating losses on the people of Orkney.
Metro GameCentral - GameCentral - 5 / 10
A joyless slog of barely interactive entertainment and a muddled portrayal of mental illness… that just so happens to have the best graphics ever on a video game console.
MondoXbox - Giuseppe Genga - Italian - 9.5 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is a true masterpiece: a deep and highly immersive narrative experience that manages to make us feel all the protagonist's torment within an impressively realistic world. Ninja Theory reveals itself to be one of the most valuable studios in the Xbox stable here, reaching levels of absolute excellence in graphics, audio, narration, and acting. A must-play.
New Game Network - Alex Varankou - 70 / 100
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II keeps the basics intact, and while a strong lead character, great animations, and simple but enjoyable combat continue to deliver, the poor pacing and performance issues prevent this sequel from breaking free of its past.
Nexus Hub - Sam Aberdeen - 8 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is the best-looking game we've ever played - a true visual powerhouse backed by an emotionally charged story and gripping dark fantasy setting, if you can look past some of its shortcomings.
One More Game - Chris Garcia - 9 / 10
Hellblade 2 is a triumph in masterful storytelling and impeccable audio design for Ninja Theory. It is an emotionally powerful experience that depicts a sensitive subject that is hardly talked about in the medium.
To achieve this, the game stripped out several features and systems like combat and exploration in favor of a deeper narrative affair. This is not for everyone, but it is something I would encourage everyone to try at least try out.
Oyungezer Online - Onur Kaya - Turkish - 8 / 10
Next gen graphics and presentation is now among us, next gen game design on the other hand, will be running late.
PC Gamer - Robin Valentine - 58 / 100
Despite its greater scale and visual splendour, this sequel fails to escape the shadow of its predecessor with a muddled tale that Senua herself feels out of place in.
PCGamesN - Cheri Faulkner - 9 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 is an impeccable story of coming to terms with trauma and making difficult decisions, punctuated by moments of outstanding beauty and strength.
Pixel Arts - Danial Dehghani - Persian - 9 / 10
Hellblade 2 is a stellar example of a sequel done right, building on the elements that made the original a landmark in gaming. It stays true to its roots, prioritizing depth and atmosphere over broad appeal. Fans of the first game will find much to love here, as it remains a unique and compelling experience. However, if the original didn't resonate with you, Hellblade 2 follows a similar path and might not change your mind.
Polygon - Yussef Cole - Unscored
Where the first game felt like a journey of self-discovery, both for Senua and for the player, Hellblade 2 feels more invested in creating the myth of Senua: Senua as legendary giant slayer, as mystical seer touched by the underworld.
Press Start - Brodie Gibbons - 9 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is yet another arresting, artful chapter in an adventure now two games long. Though it might approach iteration with a very safe hand, only going so far as to correct the original's shortcomings, Ninja Theory's clear strengths in story craft, audiovisual design, as well as their care for the dark subject matter manage to shine through brighter than ever before.
Rectify Gaming - Tyler Nienburg - 10 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II emerges as a visual and storytelling masterpiece, and is unquestionably the best-looking game I've witnessed on Xbox Series X since its launch.
Rock, Paper, Shotgun - Rick Lane - Unscored
A more uncompromising version of the first game, Hellblade 2 offers a well told story and immaculate presentation. But it's also even simpler, to the point where it treats interaction like an inconvenience.
SECTOR.sk - Matúš Štrba - Slovak - 9.5 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is, at its core, a short game, but an excellent one. But it's not for everyone. It's a bloody and often disgusting experience based on strong emotions and immersion in a character that just won't let you go. It's more of an artistic experience than a traditional game.
Saudi Gamer - Arabic - 10 / 10
An exceptionally well realized portrayal of Senua's struggle both real and praying on her fears, with brutal and satisfying combat and puzzles that require you to appreciate the world. It successfully continues what the first game started and improves upon almost every aspect.
Seasoned Gaming - Ainsley Bowden - 9 / 10
Senua's Saga is a journey unlike any other. It's fantastical, evocative, and demonstrative of Ninja Theory being masters of their craft.
Shacknews - TJ Denzer - 9 / 10
Hellblade 2 still does incredibly well. The new story is weighty, the audio is exceptional, the scenery is ridiculously dense and rich, and the combat feels intense and impactful in new and interesting ways.
Slant Magazine - Justin Clark - 3.5 / 5
The newest chapter in Senua’s story is powerfully told but feels like it’s missing a few pages.
Spaziogames - Gianluca Arena - Italian - 7.6 / 10
Senua's Saga is as strong as its predecessor, if not more, and delivers both in its storytelling and on the technical side. The gameplay, however, has still a lot of room for improvements and boils down to almost-QTE combat and boring puzzles. An experience more than an actual and so-called video game, but an experience worth living nonetheless.
Stevivor - Jay Ball - 9.5 / 10
Senua’s Saga Hellblade 2 is a video game only on its surface. Scratch that away and you’ll see that it’s a deep, thought-provoking, interactive experience proving games are an art form that demands skill and talent. Ninja Theory should be very proud.
TechRaptor - Robert Scarpinito - 7.5 / 10
Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II features intense audio, beautiful graphics, and wonderful camera work, creating a powerful presentation that’s worth experiencing. However, the narrative doesn’t quite stick the landing.
The Escapist - Unscored

Video Review - Quote not available

The Outerhaven Productions - Jordan Andow - 5 / 5
Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II sets a new bar for performances and presentation. Combined with smart improvements to gameplay, it is arguably the most cinematic, immersive, story-driven experience we’ve ever seen.
TheSixthAxis - Dominic Leighton - Unscored
Just like its forbear, Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II is an oppressive, powerful and haunting example of the power of video games, and one that sets its own parameters for what a digital experience can be. It is a game that must be experienced, not least because, there’s nothing else quite like it.
Tom's Hardware Italia - Andrea Riviera - Italian - 10 / 10
What Ninja Theory has achieved transcends reality, creating a work that is practically perfect for what it aimed to be: an audiovisual adventure with a strong narrative component. Beyond state-of-the-art graphics and sound that will undoubtedly set a standard in the coming years, what truly astonishes is the maturity with which the team has taken an excellent game like the first Hellblade and molded it into something so qualitatively impressive that it becomes difficult to even describe. This elevates the medium to a new communicative level, capable of evoking emotions and surprising players from start to finish. Experiences like Hellblade 2, which leave a lasting impression on the soul, are few and far between in a generation, and we can only rejoice in seeing how the beautiful artistic vision of the Ninja Theory team has become a reality.
Too Much Gaming - Carlos Hernandez - 5 / 5
Hellblade 2 feels like a living, breathing shapeshifter, manipulating its surroundings around the player with precision and consistency, making it one of the most visually stunning video games of this generation. This is an amazing title that carefully balances its artistic and gaming ambitions, a masterpiece that I encourage any gamer to experience.
TrueAchievements - Sean Carey - 9 / 10
Ninja Theory has created an outstanding sequel with Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2. An unforgettable narrative adventure that is brought to life through impeccable sound design, fantastic visuals, and a story that will stick with you long after the final credits roll. Hellblade 2 is one of the best games Xbox has to offer.
TrueGaming - عمر العمودي - Arabic - 8 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is a technical achievement for the gaming industry, the visuals are impressive and realistic in a way we haven't seen before and the audio design is very impressive. The game itself though, we think it could've offered more as puzzles are repetitive and combat is quite limited. However, the storytelling is strong in this chapter of Senua's journey, though it feels heavy and depressing.
VideoGamer - Tom Bardwell - 9 / 10
Though uncomfortably bleak and distressing, Helldivers 2 is something truly special.
WellPlayed - James Wood - 6 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is an achievement in visual fidelity but fails to define itself amid clumsy retreads and unengaging new ideas.
Worth Playing - Chris "Atom" DeAngelus - 7 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is a beautiful but ultimately hollow game. The fantastic presentation props up a story that is less personal and engaging than in the first game, and the gameplay feels like an afterthought. It was great to see Senua again and to see her outside of the grief-misery she was enveloped in during the first game, but beyond that, there's not much to Hellblade II. It's a short and less memorable experience that shows off Ninja Theory's visual craft to its fullest - but it achieves little else.
Xbox Achievements - Dan Webb - 90%
While Senua’s Saga: Hellblade 2 might not set any new standards with its simplistic gameplay mechanics, from an audio-visual experience standpoint, it's frankly quite a stunning experience. Hellblade 2 is as close to playing the leading role in a big budget movie as you’re likely to get, and Ninja Theory’s continued coverage on the complexities of severe mental health issues deserves to be commended once more. Bravo, Ninja Theory. Bravo.
XboxEra - Jon Clarke - 10 / 10
Despite the backing of a company as large and as well-funded as Microsoft, Ninja Theory have, in my opinion, nurtured their independent spirit and kept it well and truly alive in every facet of Senua's Saga: Hellblade II. It's brutal. It's breath-taking. It's brilliant. If this is “Independent AAA”?
Sign me up for more.
ZdobywcyGier.eu - Bartosz Michalik - Polish - 9.5 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is undoubtedly one of the best games of this year. Not only does it shine in terms of audio-visual setting, but also in terms of story. The only element that could be considered caveat is at the same time its greatest asset, namely cinematography. Sometimes one gets the impression that the developers, in an effort to achieve the best possible effect, had to make a lot of compromises, which significantly limited the gameplay possibilities. Nevertheless, for a great narrative and immersion, this is something to turn a blind eye to.
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2024.05.21 10:01 Turbostrider27 Senua's Saga: Hellblade II Review Thread

Game Information

Game Title: Senua's Saga: Hellblade II
Platforms:
Trailers:
Developer: Ninja Theory
Publisher: Xbox Game Studios
Review Aggregator:
OpenCritic - 84 average - 86% recommended - 55 reviews

Critic Reviews

AltChar - Asmir Kovacevic - 95 / 100
Few games in recent times have been able to do what Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 has done: make me feel so engaged and immersed that I wish the feeling would never stop. It is a game that will keep you in constant awe throughout the playtime with its fantastic and mysterious story, incredible graphic and sound presentation and realistic and brutal combat that will keep you on the edge of your seat the entire time.
But Why Tho? - Mick Abrahamson - 7.5 / 10
Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II won’t be for everyone. But if you are looking for a brutal continuation of a fantastic story that feels like you’re actually playing a movie, you’ll have a great time here.
CGMagazine - Justin Wood - 7 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 starts incredibly strong in the first half, but after certain revelations, the story speeds up to a point where the conclusion feels rushed and half-baked.
COGconnected - Mark Steighner - 95 / 100
It has been a very long time since I played a game as assured, polished, and emotionally affecting as Senua’s Saga: Hellblade 2.
Cerealkillerz - Steve Brieller - German - 7.9 / 10
If you expect an immersive but not so interactive “game”, Senua’s Saga Hellblade II delivers a short yet intense experience. Ninja Theory has once again skillfully created an impressive atmosphere, as they did in Senua’s Sacrifice. Unfortunately, the issues remain as well: Puzzles and combat are too easy and there is no variety in either. So please keep in mind, that this is more a Hellblade 1.5 than a true sequel.
Checkpoint Gaming - Charlie Kelly - 10 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is well worth the wait and is a serious game of the year contender. Senua's follow-up journey is the best exploration of mental health that we've seen in games to date, using incredibly striking visual imagery, metaphors and immersive soundscapes to have you feel right there next to her. In what has to be the most photo-realistic game of all time, you're guaranteed to be constantly taken by the hero's adventure as you take in the beautiful and often haunting Viking Iceland. Through mud and dirt, blood and bones, Senua and Ninja Theory in turn bare all to you, the player. A masterpiece, benchmark and magnum opus, Hellblade II is crucial storytelling you won't soon forget.
Console Creatures - Patrick Tremblay - Recommended
With Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2, Ninja Theory shows that video games can be more than simple entertainment: they can be profound artistic and emotional explorations, capable of touching and transforming those who play them. This is an unforgettable journey into the heart of Iceland's darkness, where every step of Senua is a step towards self-discovery.
Digital Trends - Tomas Franzese - 4 / 5
Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 is a visual stunner for Xbox even if its gameplay isn't too creative.
Echo Boomer - David Fialho - Portuguese - Essential
Ninja Theory has finally delivered the long-awaited and provocative sequel to Hellblade, with one of the most impressive interactive cinematic experiences of the generation, which makes you question what is real and leaves you dreaming of the graphic potential of future games still on current consoles.
Enternity.gr - Christos Chatzisavvas - Greek - 9.5 / 10
With Senua's Saga: Hellblade II, Ninja Theory builds the game it dreamed of, creating a title on a larger scale than any other.
Eurogamer - Johnny Chiodini - 5 / 5
Hellblade 2 continues Senua's story with grace, confidence, surprising brutality and thundering conviction.
GAMES.CH - Olaf Bleich - German - 89%
The game sucks you skin and hair into its fantasy world and creates such an intense bond with the characters and their stories that you want to know at every second how the adventure ends.
Game Informer - Marcus Stewart - 9 / 10
Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II’s conclusion ends on another strong note, and despite my initial reservations about continuing Senua’s story, I walked away happy to see her conquer new monsters, both literal and metaphorical.
GameSpot - Jess Cogswell - 6 / 10
Hellblade 2 is perhaps the most visually remarkable Xbox title to date, but is ultimately undermined by its emphasis on fidelity over story and gameplay.
GamingTrend - Cassie Peterson - 95 / 100
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is a stunning and immersive storytelling experience that really puts the player into the mind of its titular character. It's even more narratively-focused than the first game (not to its detriment), with a bigger emphasis on how Senua sees and interacts with the world around her. The whole experience from start to finish has been beyond memorable.
Generación Xbox - Pedro del Pozo - Spanish - 9.3 / 10
Ninja Theory manages to place Senua in the Olympus of videogames with the most visually and sonorously powerful game we have seen so far. A spectacular, stunning and awe-inspiring journey.
IGN - Tristan Ogilvie - 8 / 10
Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II is another Viking-worthy feast for the senses that meets the high bar set by its predecessor, even if it never really manages to clear it.
INVEN - Soojin Kim - Korean - 8.5 / 10
The game's high level of immersion makes you want to play it from start to finish in one sitting. With outstanding audiovisual presentation and effects, it gives the feeling that you're playing a movie, not watching it. However, the gameplay elements, such as combat and puzzles, still lack significant meaning, which leads to rather disappoint feelings.
Kakuchopurei - Jonathan Leo - 80 / 100
While the story & gameplay's broad strokes might be familiar, Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2's execution, perspective, and overall production values are just stellar and highlights Ninja Theory's strengths in delivering what it does best: story-heavy cinematic gaming. The characters are fleshed out and well-written, with proper focus on your main character and her turmoils that carry over from the first game, the fighting feels weighty and challenging without being completely frustrating, and the HUD-less approach to presentation is welcome.
Kotaku - Claire Jackson - Unscored
A spellbinding meditation on anguish and compassion, Hellblade II delivers one of the most gripping interactive and sensory experiences of 2024
Merlin'in Kazanı - Murat Oktay - Turkish - 89 / 100
The chaotic story of Senua continues. We set out to take revenge on the Viking raiders who have inflicted devastating losses on the people of Orkney.
Metro GameCentral - GameCentral - 5 / 10
A joyless slog of barely interactive entertainment and a muddled portrayal of mental illness… that just so happens to have the best graphics ever on a video game console.
MondoXbox - Giuseppe Genga - Italian - 9.5 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is a true masterpiece: a deep and highly immersive narrative experience that manages to make us feel all the protagonist's torment within an impressively realistic world. Ninja Theory reveals itself to be one of the most valuable studios in the Xbox stable here, reaching levels of absolute excellence in graphics, audio, narration, and acting. A must-play.
New Game Network - Alex Varankou - 70 / 100
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II keeps the basics intact, and while a strong lead character, great animations, and simple but enjoyable combat continue to deliver, the poor pacing and performance issues prevent this sequel from breaking free of its past.
Nexus Hub - Sam Aberdeen - 8 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is the best-looking game we've ever played - a true visual powerhouse backed by an emotionally charged story and gripping dark fantasy setting, if you can look past some of its shortcomings.
One More Game - Chris Garcia - 9 / 10
Hellblade 2 is a triumph in masterful storytelling and impeccable audio design for Ninja Theory. It is an emotionally powerful experience that depicts a sensitive subject that is hardly talked about in the medium.
To achieve this, the game stripped out several features and systems like combat and exploration in favor of a deeper narrative affair. This is not for everyone, but it is something I would encourage everyone to try at least try out.
Oyungezer Online - Onur Kaya - Turkish - 8 / 10
Next gen graphics and presentation is now among us, next gen game design on the other hand, will be running late.
PC Gamer - Robin Valentine - 58 / 100
Despite its greater scale and visual splendour, this sequel fails to escape the shadow of its predecessor with a muddled tale that Senua herself feels out of place in.
PCGamesN - Cheri Faulkner - 9 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 is an impeccable story of coming to terms with trauma and making difficult decisions, punctuated by moments of outstanding beauty and strength.
Pixel Arts - Danial Dehghani - Persian - 9 / 10
Hellblade 2 is a stellar example of a sequel done right, building on the elements that made the original a landmark in gaming. It stays true to its roots, prioritizing depth and atmosphere over broad appeal. Fans of the first game will find much to love here, as it remains a unique and compelling experience. However, if the original didn't resonate with you, Hellblade 2 follows a similar path and might not change your mind.
Polygon - Yussef Cole - Unscored
Where the first game felt like a journey of self-discovery, both for Senua and for the player, Hellblade 2 feels more invested in creating the myth of Senua: Senua as legendary giant slayer, as mystical seer touched by the underworld.
Press Start - Brodie Gibbons - 9 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is yet another arresting, artful chapter in an adventure now two games long. Though it might approach iteration with a very safe hand, only going so far as to correct the original's shortcomings, Ninja Theory's clear strengths in story craft, audiovisual design, as well as their care for the dark subject matter manage to shine through brighter than ever before.
Rectify Gaming - Tyler Nienburg - 10 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II emerges as a visual and storytelling masterpiece, and is unquestionably the best-looking game I've witnessed on Xbox Series X since its launch.
Rock, Paper, Shotgun - Rick Lane - Unscored
A more uncompromising version of the first game, Hellblade 2 offers a well told story and immaculate presentation. But it's also even simpler, to the point where it treats interaction like an inconvenience.
SECTOR.sk - Matúš Štrba - Slovak - 9.5 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is, at its core, a short game, but an excellent one. But it's not for everyone. It's a bloody and often disgusting experience based on strong emotions and immersion in a character that just won't let you go. It's more of an artistic experience than a traditional game.
Saudi Gamer - Arabic - 10 / 10
An exceptionally well realized portrayal of Senua's struggle both real and praying on her fears, with brutal and satisfying combat and puzzles that require you to appreciate the world. It successfully continues what the first game started and improves upon almost every aspect.
Seasoned Gaming - Ainsley Bowden - 9 / 10
Senua's Saga is a journey unlike any other. It's fantastical, evocative, and demonstrative of Ninja Theory being masters of their craft.
Shacknews - TJ Denzer - 9 / 10
Hellblade 2 still does incredibly well. The new story is weighty, the audio is exceptional, the scenery is ridiculously dense and rich, and the combat feels intense and impactful in new and interesting ways.
Slant Magazine - Justin Clark - 3.5 / 5
The newest chapter in Senua’s story is powerfully told but feels like it’s missing a few pages.
Spaziogames - Gianluca Arena - Italian - 7.6 / 10
Senua's Saga is as strong as its predecessor, if not more, and delivers both in its storytelling and on the technical side. The gameplay, however, has still a lot of room for improvements and boils down to almost-QTE combat and boring puzzles. An experience more than an actual and so-called video game, but an experience worth living nonetheless.
Stevivor - Jay Ball - 9.5 / 10
Senua’s Saga Hellblade 2 is a video game only on its surface. Scratch that away and you’ll see that it’s a deep, thought-provoking, interactive experience proving games are an art form that demands skill and talent. Ninja Theory should be very proud.
TechRaptor - Robert Scarpinito - 7.5 / 10
Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II features intense audio, beautiful graphics, and wonderful camera work, creating a powerful presentation that’s worth experiencing. However, the narrative doesn’t quite stick the landing.
The Escapist - Unscored

Video Review - Quote not available

The Outerhaven Productions - Jordan Andow - 5 / 5
Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II sets a new bar for performances and presentation. Combined with smart improvements to gameplay, it is arguably the most cinematic, immersive, story-driven experience we’ve ever seen.
TheSixthAxis - Dominic Leighton - Unscored
Just like its forbear, Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II is an oppressive, powerful and haunting example of the power of video games, and one that sets its own parameters for what a digital experience can be. It is a game that must be experienced, not least because, there’s nothing else quite like it.
Tom's Hardware Italia - Andrea Riviera - Italian - 10 / 10
What Ninja Theory has achieved transcends reality, creating a work that is practically perfect for what it aimed to be: an audiovisual adventure with a strong narrative component. Beyond state-of-the-art graphics and sound that will undoubtedly set a standard in the coming years, what truly astonishes is the maturity with which the team has taken an excellent game like the first Hellblade and molded it into something so qualitatively impressive that it becomes difficult to even describe. This elevates the medium to a new communicative level, capable of evoking emotions and surprising players from start to finish. Experiences like Hellblade 2, which leave a lasting impression on the soul, are few and far between in a generation, and we can only rejoice in seeing how the beautiful artistic vision of the Ninja Theory team has become a reality.
Too Much Gaming - Carlos Hernandez - 5 / 5
Hellblade 2 feels like a living, breathing shapeshifter, manipulating its surroundings around the player with precision and consistency, making it one of the most visually stunning video games of this generation. This is an amazing title that carefully balances its artistic and gaming ambitions, a masterpiece that I encourage any gamer to experience.
TrueAchievements - Sean Carey - 9 / 10
Ninja Theory has created an outstanding sequel with Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2. An unforgettable narrative adventure that is brought to life through impeccable sound design, fantastic visuals, and a story that will stick with you long after the final credits roll. Hellblade 2 is one of the best games Xbox has to offer.
TrueGaming - عمر العمودي - Arabic - 8 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is a technical achievement for the gaming industry, the visuals are impressive and realistic in a way we haven't seen before and the audio design is very impressive. The game itself though, we think it could've offered more as puzzles are repetitive and combat is quite limited. However, the storytelling is strong in this chapter of Senua's journey, though it feels heavy and depressing.
VideoGamer - Tom Bardwell - 9 / 10
Though uncomfortably bleak and distressing, Hellblade 2 is something truly special.
WellPlayed - James Wood - 6 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is an achievement in visual fidelity but fails to define itself amid clumsy retreads and unengaging new ideas.
Worth Playing - Chris "Atom" DeAngelus - 7 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is a beautiful but ultimately hollow game. The fantastic presentation props up a story that is less personal and engaging than in the first game, and the gameplay feels like an afterthought. It was great to see Senua again and to see her outside of the grief-misery she was enveloped in during the first game, but beyond that, there's not much to Hellblade II. It's a short and less memorable experience that shows off Ninja Theory's visual craft to its fullest - but it achieves little else.
Xbox Achievements - Dan Webb - 90%
While Senua’s Saga: Hellblade 2 might not set any new standards with its simplistic gameplay mechanics, from an audio-visual experience standpoint, it's frankly quite a stunning experience. Hellblade 2 is as close to playing the leading role in a big budget movie as you’re likely to get, and Ninja Theory’s continued coverage on the complexities of severe mental health issues deserves to be commended once more. Bravo, Ninja Theory. Bravo.
XboxEra - Jon Clarke - 10 / 10
Despite the backing of a company as large and as well-funded as Microsoft, Ninja Theory have, in my opinion, nurtured their independent spirit and kept it well and truly alive in every facet of Senua's Saga: Hellblade II. It's brutal. It's breath-taking. It's brilliant. If this is “Independent AAA”?
Sign me up for more.
ZdobywcyGier.eu - Bartosz Michalik - Polish - 9.5 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is undoubtedly one of the best games of this year. Not only does it shine in terms of audio-visual setting, but also in terms of story. The only element that could be considered caveat is at the same time its greatest asset, namely cinematography. Sometimes one gets the impression that the developers, in an effort to achieve the best possible effect, had to make a lot of compromises, which significantly limited the gameplay possibilities. Nevertheless, for a great narrative and immersion, this is something to turn a blind eye to.
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2024.05.21 09:30 Xbox-Moderator Senua's Saga: Hellblade II - Review Thread

Senua's Saga: Hellblade II - Review Thread
https://preview.redd.it/5c54qfp8cs1d1.png?width=1600&format=png&auto=webp&s=45cf761c7bfa14a7b7ccb82150d031dcc3701cfe
Game Title: Senua's Saga: Hellblade II
Platforms:
  • Xbox Series X/S (May 21, 2024)
  • PC (May 21, 2024)
Trailers:
Developer: Ninja Theory
Publisher: Xbox Game Studios
Review Aggregator:
OpenCritic - 83 average - 85% recommended - 65 reviews

Critic Reviews

AltChar - Asmir Kovacevic - 95 / 100
Few games in recent times have been able to do what Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 has done: make me feel so engaged and immersed that I wish the feeling would never stop. It is a game that will keep you in constant awe throughout the playtime with its fantastic and mysterious story, incredible graphic and sound presentation and realistic and brutal combat that will keep you on the edge of your seat the entire time.
But Why Tho? - Mick Abrahamson - 7.5 / 10
Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II won’t be for everyone. But if you are looking for a brutal continuation of a fantastic story that feels like you’re actually playing a movie, you’ll have a great time here.
CGMagazine - Justin Wood - 7 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 starts incredibly strong in the first half, but after certain revelations, the story speeds up to a point where the conclusion feels rushed and half-baked.
COGconnected - Mark Steighner - 95 / 100
It has been a very long time since I played a game as assured, polished, and emotionally affecting as Senua’s Saga: Hellblade 2.
Cerealkillerz - Steve Brieller - German - 7.9 / 10
If you expect an immersive but not so interactive “game”, Senua’s Saga Hellblade II delivers a short yet intense experience. Ninja Theory has once again skillfully created an impressive atmosphere, as they did in Senua’s Sacrifice. Unfortunately, the issues remain as well: Puzzles and combat are too easy and there is no variety in either. So please keep in mind, that this is more a Hellblade 1.5 than a true sequel.
Checkpoint Gaming - Charlie Kelly - 10 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is well worth the wait and is a serious game of the year contender. Senua's follow-up journey is the best exploration of mental health that we've seen in games to date, using incredibly striking visual imagery, metaphors and immersive soundscapes to have you feel right there next to her. In what has to be the most photo-realistic game of all time, you're guaranteed to be constantly taken by the hero's adventure as you take in the beautiful and often haunting Viking Iceland. Through mud and dirt, blood and bones, Senua and Ninja Theory in turn bare all to you, the player. A masterpiece, benchmark and magnum opus, Hellblade II is crucial storytelling you won't soon forget.
Console Creatures - Patrick Tremblay - Recommended
With Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2, Ninja Theory shows that video games can be more than simple entertainment: they can be profound artistic and emotional explorations, capable of touching and transforming those who play them. This is an unforgettable journey into the heart of Iceland's darkness, where every step of Senua is a step towards self-discovery.
Digital Trends - Tomas Franzese - 4 / 5
Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 is a visual stunner for Xbox even if its gameplay isn't too creative.
Eurogamer - Johnny Chiodini - 5 / 5
Hellblade 2 continues Senua's story with grace, confidence, surprising brutality and thundering conviction.
Game Informer - Marcus Stewart - 9 / 10
Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II’s conclusion ends on another strong note, and despite my initial reservations about continuing Senua’s story, I walked away happy to see her conquer new monsters, both literal and metaphorical.
Game Rant - Anthony Taormina - 4 / 5
There is simply nothing else like Hellblade 2 on the market and that alone kept me enthralled the whole way through. Its pared-down elements might not be mechanically complex, but they give the story a momentum that makes it hard to put down. Ninja Theory tackles themes that are challenging and not often seen in games, with a backdrop that vacillates between the epic and the intimate. It's approach doesn't have widespread appeal, but Senua’s Saga: Hellblade 2 is as close to an interactive movie as we’ve seen yet.
GameSpot - Jess Cogswell - 6 / 10
Hellblade 2 is perhaps the most visually remarkable Xbox title to date, but is ultimately undermined by its emphasis on fidelity over story and gameplay.
GamingTrend - Cassie Peterson - 95 / 100
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is a stunning and immersive storytelling experience that really puts the player into the mind of its titular character. It's even more narratively-focused than the first game (not to its detriment), with a bigger emphasis on how Senua sees and interacts with the world around her. The whole experience from start to finish has been beyond memorable.
Generación Xbox - Pedro del Pozo - Spanish - 9.3 / 10
Ninja Theory manages to place Senua in the Olympus of videogames with the most visually and sonorously powerful game we have seen so far. A spectacular, stunning and awe-inspiring journey.
IGN - Tristan Ogilvie - 8 / 10
Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II is another Viking-worthy feast for the senses that meets the high bar set by its predecessor, even if it never really manages to clear it.
Kotaku - Claire Jackson - Unscored
A spellbinding meditation on anguish and compassion, Hellblade II delivers one of the most gripping interactive and sensory experiences of 2024
MondoXbox - Giuseppe Genga - Italian - 9.5 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is a true masterpiece: a deep and highly immersive narrative experience that manages to make us feel all the protagonist's torment within an impressively realistic world. Ninja Theory reveals itself to be one of the most valuable studios in the Xbox stable here, reaching levels of absolute excellence in graphics, audio, narration, and acting. A must-play.
New Game Network - Alex Varankou - 70 / 100
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II keeps the basics intact, and while a strong lead character, great animations, and simple but enjoyable combat continue to deliver, the poor pacing and performance issues prevent this sequel from breaking free of its past.
Nexus Hub - Sam Aberdeen - 8 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is the best-looking game we've ever played - a true visual powerhouse backed by an emotionally charged story and gripping dark fantasy setting, if you can look past some of its shortcomings.
PC Gamer - Robin Valentine - 58 / 100
Despite its greater scale and visual splendour, this sequel fails to escape the shadow of its predecessor with a muddled tale that Senua herself feels out of place in.
PCGamesN - Cheri Faulkner - 9 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 is an impeccable story of coming to terms with trauma and making difficult decisions, punctuated by moments of outstanding beauty and strength.
Pixel Arts - Danial Dehghani - Persian - 9 / 10
Hellblade 2 is a stellar example of a sequel done right, building on the elements that made the original a landmark in gaming. It stays true to its roots, prioritizing depth and atmosphere over broad appeal. Fans of the first game will find much to love here, as it remains a unique and compelling experience. However, if the original didn't resonate with you, Hellblade 2 follows a similar path and might not change your mind.
Polygon - Yussef Cole - Unscored
Where the first game felt like a journey of self-discovery, both for Senua and for the player, Hellblade 2 feels more invested in creating the myth of Senua: Senua as legendary giant slayer, as mystical seer touched by the underworld.
Press Start - Brodie Gibbons - 9 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is yet another arresting, artful chapter in an adventure now two games long. Though it might approach iteration with a very safe hand, only going so far as to correct the original's shortcomings, Ninja Theory's clear strengths in story craft, audiovisual design, as well as their care for the dark subject matter manage to shine through brighter than ever before.
Rectify Gaming - Tyler Nienburg - 10 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II emerges as a visual and storytelling masterpiece, and is unquestionably the best-looking game I've witnessed on Xbox Series X since its launch.
Rock, Paper, Shotgun - Rick Lane - Unscored
A more uncompromising version of the first game, Hellblade 2 offers a well told story and immaculate presentation. But it's also even simpler, to the point where it treats interaction like an inconvenience.
SECTOR.sk - Matúš Štrba - Slovak - 9.5 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is, at its core, a short game, but an excellent one. But it's not for everyone. It's a bloody and often disgusting experience based on strong emotions and immersion in a character that just won't let you go. It's more of an artistic experience than a traditional game.
Saudi Gamer - Arabic - 10 / 10
An exceptionally well realized portrayal of Senua's struggle both real and praying on her fears, with brutal and satisfying combat and puzzles that require you to appreciate the world. It successfully continues what the first game started and improves upon almost every aspect.
Seasoned Gaming - Ainsley Bowden - 9 / 10
Senua's Saga is a journey unlike any other. It's fantastical, evocative, and demonstrative of Ninja Theory being masters of their craft.
Shacknews - TJ Denzer - 9 / 10
Hellblade 2 still does incredibly well. The new story is weighty, the audio is exceptional, the scenery is ridiculously dense and rich, and the combat feels intense and impactful in new and interesting ways.
Slant Magazine - Justin Clark - 3.5 / 5
The newest chapter in Senua’s story is powerfully told but feels like it’s missing a few pages.
Spaziogames - Gianluca Arena - Italian - 7.6 / 10
Senua's Saga is as strong as its predecessor, if not more, and delivers both in its storytelling and on the technical side. The gameplay, however, has still a lot of room for improvements and boils down to almost-QTE combat and boring puzzles. An experience more than an actual and so-called video game, but an experience worth living nonetheless.
Stevivor - Jay Ball - 9.5 / 10
Senua’s Saga Hellblade 2 is a video game only on its surface. Scratch that away and you’ll see that it’s a deep, thought-provoking, interactive experience proving games are an art form that demands skill and talent. Ninja Theory should be very proud.
TechRaptor - Robert Scarpinito - 7.5 / 10
Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II features intense audio, beautiful graphics, and wonderful camera work, creating a powerful presentation that’s worth experiencing. However, the narrative doesn’t quite stick the landing.
TheSixthAxis - Dominic Leighton - Unscored
Just like its forbear, Senua’s Saga: Hellblade II is an oppressive, powerful and haunting example of the power of video games, and one that sets its own parameters for what a digital experience can be. It is a game that must be experienced, not least because, there’s nothing else quite like it.
Tom's Hardware Italia - Andrea Riviera - Italian - 10 / 10
What Ninja Theory has achieved transcends reality, creating a work that is practically perfect for what it aimed to be: an audiovisual adventure with a strong narrative component. Beyond state-of-the-art graphics and sound that will undoubtedly set a standard in the coming years, what truly astonishes is the maturity with which the team has taken an excellent game like the first Hellblade and molded it into something so qualitatively impressive that it becomes difficult to even describe. This elevates the medium to a new communicative level, capable of evoking emotions and surprising players from start to finish. Experiences like Hellblade 2, which leave a lasting impression on the soul, are few and far between in a generation, and we can only rejoice in seeing how the beautiful artistic vision of the Ninja Theory team has become a reality.
Too Much Gaming - Carlos Hernandez - 5 / 5
Hellblade 2 feels like a living, breathing shapeshifter, manipulating its surroundings around the player with precision and consistency, making it one of the most visually stunning video games of this generation. This is an amazing title that carefully balances its artistic and gaming ambitions, a masterpiece that I encourage any gamer to experience.
TrueAchievements - Sean Carey - 9 / 10
Ninja Theory has created an outstanding sequel with Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2. An unforgettable narrative adventure that is brought to life through impeccable sound design, fantastic visuals, and a story that will stick with you long after the final credits roll. Hellblade 2 is one of the best games Xbox has to offer.
TrueGaming - عمر العمودي - Arabic - 8 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is a technical achievement for the gaming industry, the visuals are impressive and realistic in a way we haven't seen before and the audio design is very impressive. The game itself though, we think it could've offered more as puzzles are repetitive and combat is quite limited. However, the storytelling is strong in this chapter of Senua's journey, though it feels heavy and depressing.
WellPlayed - James Wood - 6 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is an achievement in visual fidelity but fails to define itself amid clumsy retreads and unengaging new ideas.
Windows Central - Zachary Boddy - 4.5 / 5
A game like Senua's Saga: Hellblade II can only be the result of years of passion and talent, captivating you with its unbelievable visuals, impeccable audio design, and powerful thought-provoking narrative. It's a veritable masterpiece, but it's just shy of perfection thanks to an average PC port and some minor criticisms.
Worth Playing - Chris "Atom" DeAngelus - 7 / 10
Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is a beautiful but ultimately hollow game. The fantastic presentation props up a story that is less personal and engaging than in the first game, and the gameplay feels like an afterthought. It was great to see Senua again and to see her outside of the grief-misery she was enveloped in during the first game, but beyond that, there's not much to Hellblade II. It's a short and less memorable experience that shows off Ninja Theory's visual craft to its fullest - but it achieves little else.
Xbox Achievements - Dan Webb - 90%
While Senua’s Saga: Hellblade 2 might not set any new standards with its simplistic gameplay mechanics, from an audio-visual experience standpoint, it's frankly quite a stunning experience. Hellblade 2 is as close to playing the leading role in a big budget movie as you’re likely to get, and Ninja Theory’s continued coverage on the complexities of severe mental health issues deserves to be commended once more. Bravo, Ninja Theory. Bravo.
XboxEra - Jon Clarke - 10 / 10
Despite the backing of a company as large and as well-funded as Microsoft, Ninja Theory have, in my opinion, nurtured their independent spirit and kept it well and truly alive in every facet of Senua's Saga: Hellblade II. It's brutal. It's breath-taking. It's brilliant. If this is “Independent AAA”?
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2024.05.21 08:41 TastyCookie23900 To all aspiring music artists, groups, and peformers who in the music industry are your biggest inspirations and why for the biggest ones

I have a lot mine are
Kylie Minogue: I try to replicate her dance heavy neo disco music and goddess flair into my style and music
Donna Summer: In my opinion the original popstar with glitz and glam her music
Beyonce: the Queen Bee I try to incorporate all of her styles from her funky R&B during B-day to her Dark Horror Pop in self-titled to her Psychological masterpieces from Lemonade and her electronic disco from Rennisance and everything else
Lee Hyori: I love her It girl style with her music I use it a lot when designing my putting together my stage outfits
Ayumi Hamasaki: I inadvertedly discovered her one day and learned that she is the female pop star I've been looking for to emmulate
BoA: I kind of feel like She's my second mother a little her hip hop electronic style will always be my favorite
Kate Bush: I recently discovered her and can't stan her more she's one of the greatest artists I've ever seen her eccentricty but grace and being A dancer that also writes music like me she's just perfect the inspiration for creating this post is just ever so perfect a true diva who paved the way for artists like Lana, Billie, Gaga, florence and so many more
Barbara Streisand: I think of her as a revolutionary who brought not just amazing vocals but excellent concert commentary to her performance her comedic style is 'ay perfecta'
Lady Gaga: probably one of my favs of all time someone that I've been a hardcore stan her eccentricity, style, Kindness, and eternal message of just being yourself is what I love about her so friggin much
Taylor Swift
Jenifer Hudson
Little Mix
Hwasa
Shakira
Björk
MAMAMOO
Uhm Jung-hwa
Lauryn Hill
Michael Jackson
Girls Generation
Tina Turner
Diana ross
CL
Rina Sawayama
Brown eyed girls
Ciara
the Pointer sisters
Janet Jackson
Madonna
Whitney Houston
Christina Aguilera
Nine muses
Nina Simone
Afterschool
VIXX
Lana Del Rey
Spice girls
SHINee
Erykah Badu
Girls Aloud
Melanie Martinez
Celine Dion
Cher
Sade
Amy Winehouse
Ke$ha
Ailee
G-dragon
Ghost
Jessica Mauboy
Wham
Taeyeon
Efendi
India Arie
Jessie J
HyunA
Prince
IU
Adele
Son dam bi
Key
Mariah Carey
Jeon Somi
Aretha franklin
Demi Lovato
Mahalia Jackson
Katy perry
Sunmi
Hyolyn
Wonder girls
Dionne Warwick
Ariana Grande
Misia
Alicia Keys
Patti Labelle
Gladys Knight
Florence + the machine
Jojo
rachelle ann go
Sistar
Gummy
Ruth Brown
Cheetah Girls
Daft Punk
the Beatles
Belinda
List yours in the comment section
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2024.05.21 05:27 little_calla_lily comebacks for being called a p*do/ jokingly compared to famous p*dos

ok imma yap here for a minute
so im one of the oldest kids in my grade, bc i have a summer birthday so it was either be the oldest or be the youngest, and there are people up to a year and a few months younger than me in my class. ive dated 6 people in the last couple of years, and 3 of them were younger than me by a little over a year. my friends, whom i love very much, but who are kind of mean sometimes, have been calling me a p*do or making jokes like "is your last name graham" or "hey, michael jackson" etc and they wont stop. ive told them several times to stop and that its hurtful and not funny and that it makes me uncomfortable and they just brush it off. i need comebacks PLEASE
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2024.05.20 21:42 HighOnKalanchoe I just pick this OG 1984 press for a pretty decent price below $10, VG+/VG+

I just pick this OG 1984 press for a pretty decent price below $10, VG+/VG+
Victory is the fifteenth studio album by the Jacksons, released by Epic Records on July 2, 1984.
The only album to include all six Jackson brothers together as an official group, Victory peaked at number four on the US Billboard 200 albums chart. Its most successful single, "State of Shock", peaked at number three on the US Billboard Hot 100 songs chart.
Victory was supported by the Victory Tour, with Michael, who had recently released the world's all-time best-selling album, Thriller (1982), being prominently featured on the tour's setlist. None of the songs from Victory were performed on the tour. Shortly afterward, Michael and Marlon Jackson quit the group to pursue solo careers. Jermaine, Tito, Randy, and Jackie Jackson continued on as the Jacksons and released one more album, 1989's 2300 Jackson Street (whose title track did feature all six Jackson brothers, along with their sisters Janet and Rebbie), before splitting up.
Victory was certified 2× Platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) in the United States in October 1984, and sold 7 million copies worldwide. The album received a digital expanded reissue on April 30, 2021 alongside other Jacksons albums.
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2024.05.20 20:15 FelicitySmoak_ Monday, May 20, 2013 - Jackson v. AEG Live Day 14

Monday, May 20, 2013 - Jackson v. AEG Live Day 14
Trial Day 14. Week 4
Katherine, Rebbie and Trent Jackson were at court.
Before testimony starts, Judge Yvette Palazuelos admonished the audience that no one is allowed to talk to jurors. Someone approached one of them. Apparently someone (person wasn’t identified) spoke with a juror, which is a big no-no. Could lead to a mistrial.
Julie Hollander Testimony
AEG cross
"Each member of the crew, dancers, musicians had an agreement as to weekly payment", Hollander explained
Hollander said AEG never paid Dr. Conrad Murray because the contract had not been fully executed. Based on the contract, Hollander said payment for Dr. Murray should be to GCA, the doctor's employer
Contract:
Dr. Murray represented he's licensed cardiologist practicing in Las Vegas and that he acts as the Artist's general practitioner
Hollander says Dr. Murray could only be paid after the contract was fully executed, including the signature of MJ, due to the personal nature of the service. AEG attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina went over part of Conrad Murray’s contract related to how he would have been paid. Julie Hollander testified she was told not to pay Murray until the contract was signed by all parties, including AEG and Jackson. Hollander said last week that she was told not to pay Murray until Jackson’s signature was on the contract
Hollander said she has never seen an agreement where the artist had to sign off on a contract for services. Hollander said last week that she was told not to pay Murray until Jackson’s signature was on the contract. AEG exec Julie Hollander re-iterated last week’s testimony that Murray’s contract was the only one she saw requiring MJ’s signature.
Hollander explained that budget is a tool where you plan your future expenses. The book documents the actual expenses incurred. Bina showed Hollander the report she prepared on 10/21/09 that was sent to MJ's Estate with the costs incurred as advances for the This Is It tour.
Next document Bina showed a comparison of Budget v. Actual expenses as of Oct. 2009. Julie Hollander told a jury the tally involved expenses compiled through October 2009, roughly three months after Michael's death. Budget documents shown in the courtroom show the production was more than $2 million over budget, and that AEG made no payments to Conrad Murray

  • Budget Total: Budget: $22,228,000 /Actual: $24,835,011
  • Management Medical Budget: $300,000/ Actual: Zero
  • Public Relations Budget: $18,000 /Actual: Zero
  • Rehearsal Per Diems: Budget: $175,000 /Actual: $89,751
  • Rehearsal Facilities: Budget: $871,000/ Actual: $1,553,558
Jackson re-direct
In re-direct, Panish asked Hollander if it was true that public relations was not paid $18,000 because MJ died. She said no
Panish: Do you know what that $18,000 is for?
Hollander: No
Panish: Budget and actual payment for rehearsals per diem were different because Mr. Jackson died, correct?
Hollander: No
Hollander didn't know the per diem schedule, so she said she didn't know the answers
Panish: You didn't pay Dr. Murray, did you?
Hollander: No
Panish: That's why it's not there (on doc shown)
Hollander: Yes
"But all the estimates include payment for Dr. Murray?", Panish asked
"That's what shows in this paper," Hollander responded.
Contract:
Promoter shall make advanced to cover mutually-approved production costs up to but not exceeding $7.5 million
Panish shows Dr. Murray's contract and asked Hollander if anywhere in the agreement is says this was a draft agreement.
"In my experience, a draft is a term used to describe an agreement that has not been signed by all parties involved", Hollander explained.
Panish: Is it your experience people sign draft agreements?
Hollander: My experience is that until everyone signs, it can be changed. If this version had been signed by everybody, would've been final
The contract was from 5/1/09 until the end of the This Is It tour
I was told it was put in there at the request of the artist, Hollander said
Panish asked if MJ had to approve $150K payment for Dr Murray
"I've never been involved in a tour where AEG hired a doctor", Hollander said. "It's never happened before. I know in my experience it's not typical for a promoter or producer to hire a doctor"
Panish questioned Hollander about Dr. Murray's company and she said it was a LLC in Nevada.
"Do you know what GCA is? Does it sell popcorn?"
Panish asked Hollander if there was a written policy against someone working for AEG without an executed contract. She said she isn't aware of any. Hollander said there's a policy against paying people without fully executed contract.
Hollander said tour promoters don't get involved in what it takes to actually put the show together. The artist does. AEG Live is more promoter than producers of shows, Hollander said. They promoted upwards of 100 tours, produced only a few, she testified.
"Acting as producer you get more money than just as promoter, right?", Panish asked
Hollander agreed, saying they have earning potentials
Hollander said the Michael Jackson Estate approved the cost of the tour expenses incurred by AEG
Panish: You don't know whether the artist was supposed to approve the cost while it was incurred and not after his death, correct?
Panish asked Hollander how it was that she testified last week she worked in 20 concerts and today she said it was more than 100. Hollander said she looked through materials at work and it refreshed her recollection. Panish said he wants to see the list of tours. "My estimate was 20 tours up until 2009", Hollander said. "From 09 to today, she said it's upward of 100"
Panish: "Do you have any understanding whether Dr. Murray expected to get paid?"
Hollander: "Only along those lines, yes"
Julie Hollander was then excused subject to recall if needed.
Shawn Trell Testimony
Jackson Direct
Katherine Jackson's attorneys called Shawn Trell as next witness. Brian Panish doing questioning, Trell is an adverse witness
Shawn Trell is the Senior Vice President and General Counsel for AEG Live for 10 years. He's been with the company for 13 years
Trell said he met with defendants' attorneys for a few hours Saturday and Sunday, reviewed documents to refresh his recollection
"I'm the client's representative in the court", Trell said
Plaintiff’s attorney Brian Panish asked Trell about his relationship with AEG’s trial counsel, Marvin Putnam. Putnam and Trell went to law school together, but Trell said he’s only known Putnam for three or four years. Marvin Putnam and Trell went to Georgetown Law School together, but only realized they went to the same school after the trial started
Attorney Shawn Trell was the one who drafted & edited Michael Jackson’s contract with AEG Live.
Panish: Did you enter in a contract with Mr. Jackson for the This Is It tour?
Trell: Yes
Trell said he was involved in drafting the agreement, but in his deposition, he said he had drafted it himself
Panish also asked Trell about his knowledge of Michael Jackson’s interest in producing movies with an AEG film group. Trell said he knew Jackson wanted to produce movies, but he wasn’t aware that MJ wanted to work specifically with AEG. Trell said he's aware MJ wanted to produce films and Anschutz has a film company. Trell said he never heard that Randy Phillips spoke with DreamWorks about producing a MJ movie.
Trell said he never discussed with Tim Leiweke, former AEG's CEO, about MJ. Leiweke is no longer with AEG, Trell said
Trell was interviewed by LAPD.
"I think they were interested in what we knew about Dr. Murray"
Trell said he produced all the materials LAPD asked of him. Panish asked if he turned over only one email, and he said he didn't recall
Trell said he's confident he turned over all the material requested of AEG Live. Outside the presence of the jury, Jessica Stebbins Bina said there are about 200,000 pages of documents. Panish said Trell has been designated in 24 categories as having knowledge and being the most qualified to speak on behalf of AEG. Panish said the witnesses he will spend most time on are Randy Phillips, Paul Gongaware and Shawn Trell
Panish asked if AEG Live sent a letter to MJ's Estate after he died trying to recoup money. Trell said he didn't recall. Panish showed an AEG Live letter written to MJ's Estate with costs incurred for the tour. It was signed by AEG's CFO.
"This report was sent to the Estate as an accounting and an effort to recoup the money based on the agreement," Trell said.
The report indicated around $30 million had been spent on the production of the tour. The report included $300K to pay Dr. Murray. Panish noted that the report was sent to MJ's Estate to recoup money "spent." AEG never paid Dr. Murray.
"To me, it was a mistake," Trell said about including payment to Dr. Murray
Trell, testifying Monday in the Michael Jackson wrongful death trial, also said his company's chief financial officer made another major error by classifying Dr. Murray's fees as "production costs" and not "advances" in all of the budgets for Jackson's This It It tour.
"Mistakenly, yes," Trell said. Despite these "mistakes," Trell called the CFO "a very detailed-oriented guy"
MJ was given $5 million in advance:
  • $3 million was to pay settlement of a lawsuit
  • $100,000/month for Carolwood house lease
Trell said MJ was already in the house at Carolwood when they entered into the agreement. AEG was to assist MJ to get $15 million in credit line, or would advance the money, so MJ could buy a house in Las Vegas, Trell testified
Trell said Tohme Tohme was acting as MJ's manager at the time and was to be paid no more than $100,000. Panish asked if AEG Live ever had a contract that included pay for artist's personal manager's salary:
"I don't recall one. This was the only time we paid a personal manager", Trell testified.
AEG Live's producer's fee: 5% of net tour income
Panish asked if Dr. Murray was listed in every budget after May 8, 2009:
"He was listed incorrectly as production cost," Trell said
After lunch break, Panish asked Trell is AEG was getting 5% as producer and 10% as promoter of the show, and he said yes. Panish shows a document with AEG Mission Statement. One of the bullet points is "to create land maximize revenue streams"
As of June 2009, Trell said AEG was not sure the extent of Jackson's assets to secure the interests of the company.
"There's an inherent risk in any commercial undertaking," Trell said.

"It wasn't a sure thing that AEG would get back the $35 million spent. By the time they spent $35 million, tickets were already been sold", Trell said and they knew the tour was sold out. "The development of a tour is a fluid thing, there were conversations between our side and MJ's side all the time", Trell said. "I don't know when I became aware the production cost exceeded $7.5 million," Trell testified.
As to non-appearance insurance, Trell said he got insurance for $17.5 million

Panish: After MJ died, you drafted an agreement to approve productions costs?
Trell: Yes
The letter was drafted on June 28, 2009, 3 days of MJ's death.
"I wouldn't characterize it as trying to get the monies back," Trell said.
Panish explained the letter was to get confirmation of all the money spent so AEG could recoup the money spent. Trell said there was nothing in writing saying Mr. Tohme was an officer of MJ's company. He said Mr. Tohme verbalized it to him, though.
"I had nothing in writing," Trell said about Tohme representing MJ. "Presumably they could've objected if they felt it wasn't true."
Trell said Mr. Tohme represented to him he was representing MJ.
"I had no reason not to believe him"
He was also asked about a letter he sent to Tohme Tohme, MJ’s onetime manager. Jackson’s agreement with AEG Live called for Tohme to be called $100,000 a month, but Tohme was never paid. Trell said he drafted the agreement that Mr. Tohme was going to be paid by AEG as part of production cost.
"We were making that payment"
Trell said he didn't know who came up with the $100K figure to pay Mr. Tohme.
"AEG was facilitating an agreement between MJ and Dr. Tohme."
Tohme was not paid.
"That was because there were some conditions in the agreement not met"
Shawn Trell testified that he found out after the contract was signed that Jackson didn’t authorize Tohme’s payments.
"Subsequently, I learned Mr. Jackson had not approved the payment. MJ didn't authorize, so it wasn't going to get paid," Trell said, explaining he learned it either from Randy Phillips or Frank DiLeo.
On 5/5/09, MJ wrote:
"At my direction and effective immediately, Dr. Tohme Tohme is no longer authorized to represent me in any capacity"

Panish: are you license to practicing law in CA?
Trell: no, not in all aspects
Trell is registered as in-house counsel for AEG. He's never taken the CA bar test
Bob Taylor is an insurance broker, Trell said, and Lloyds of London is one of the underwriters of the type of insurance they were seeking. Panish shows a document where MJ was required to have a physical exam so broker could take the results to the insurance companies. Trell said he asked the question why insurance broker had chosen Dr. Slavit in NY and not a doctor in LA. The payment of the doctor was going to be 50/50 between the insurance broker and AEG, Trell said. Trell testified that it was the broker's belief that without physical exam there would be no way to get insurance. An email shows Trell inquired if it was really necessary to incur $10K in expense to get the medical exam completed. Trell said he never saw Dr. Slavit's report, or any other report, regarding MJ's physical exam; didn't know what kind of doctor he was. Trell said he learned through Taylor they wanted to get a number of years of MJ medical history.
"They were concerned he had skin cancer" "The policy was otherwise issued, but this was to add illness"
They required 2nd examination in London; wanted to see rehearsal. Trell said he never saw a request for a second medical exam in any tour. Plaintiff’s attorney Brian Panish also questioned Trell extensively about concert cancellation insurance for Jackson. An insurance broker was pressing AEG for a medical examination of Jackson before agreeing to write the policy. Emails between Trell and the broker showed there were concerns by insurers in London about Jackson’s health. One of the emails said Jackson was getting “mauled” by tabloid press over health concerns. Trell said concern was Jackson had skin cancer. Trell and the broker went back-and-forth a lot over in Jan. 2009 which doctor would do the exam. In the end, a NYC doc examined Jackson. Trell said he never saw the results of the medical examination. In March, insurers wanted another exam of Jackson in London. The second examination would cover illness, but insurers wanted another med exam and to attend full dress rehearsal, Trell said.
Panish: the insurance wanted additional medical exams because they were concerned, weren't they?
Trell: I have no idea
Panish showed email from the insurance broker to AEG execs with several question: details of coverage required, if artist had doctor on tour. Trell said he doesn't know whether this email with the requests was ever sent to MJ's people. Trell said Dr. Murray was asked later to help with these answers.
"It was thought that he might be of some help."
Panish asked if Trell sought life insurance on MJ where they would be the beneficiaries.
"An inquire of that was made to Mr. Taylor. We have no coverage against MJ sickness unless and until MJ submits to another medical in London. It was important to get that medical done"
He said policy would kick in on death, but not illness.
Panish: You were working on getting insurance on the day MJ died, weren't you sir?
Trell: I don't recall
Given the hour MJ died, Trell said he thinks he was not on the phone with Bob Taylor negotiating more insurance for MJ. Panish showed email from Gongaware to the insurance broker on June 24, 2009:
"Dr. Murray can comment on the availability of the records"
Panish said the amount of coverage was the maximum the underwriters were willing to cover, Trell agreed; it was effective April/early May. Two days before MJ died, Trell asked broker for longer insurance coverage:
"Term insurance is a reference to a form of life insurance"
Trell said he was looking for other options to cover the gap for what had already been spent
AEG made a claim on the insurance, Trell said.
Panish: You made the claim the night MJ died, didn't you?
Trell: I don't recall the date; it wasn't Jun 25th when I sent letter to Taylor
Panish: Were you speaking with Taylor about MJ being sick on the day he died?
Trell: I don't recall speaking with Mr. Taylor on the 25th
Panish asked if Trell discussed w/ Taylor about recouping Dr. Murray's production cost. He said they'd typically pass along the costs.
Trell said he spoke with Randy Phillips about MJ's health and physical condition, as well as Phillips' interaction with Dr. Murray.
Panish: Did Mr. Phillips tell you MJ was in bad shape prior to June 25?
Trell: Yes, on June 19
Trell said there were no AEG employees at rehearsal on June 19. He learned about MJ's feeling ill during the executive management meeting. Trell said he never spoke with Dr. Murray about MJ's condition. Randy Phillips learned about MJ's physical condition through Kenny Ortega, the tour director for This Is It, Trell said.
Panish: Within one week of MJ's death, the executive management was told about MJ poor physical condition?
Trell: The events on June 19, yes
The tour's director Kenny Ortega was being paid based on an agreement laid out solely in emails, AEG General Counsel Shawn Trell told jurors.
"Ortega's contract was a series of emails between us" Trell said. "He didn't have agreement of the nature as other people had on the tour"

Trell: "I don't recall, but I know initially it was more informal agreement. He (Ortega) was being paid based on the email agreement"
Dr. Murray was an independent contract, Trell said. An agreement is a term of conditions, not only agreement on compensation.
"He was rendering services to Mr. Jackson; he had not been engaged for This Is It tour," Trell testified.
Panish: And Dr. Murray had an agreement with AEG based on the emails?
Trell: No, Dr. Murray didn't have an agreement with AEG
In court, attorneys for Katherine Jackson displayed emails sent to Murray a month before the death of MJ in which Murray's contract terms were laid out. Trell said those emails did not demonstrate an employment relationship. Trell acknowledged, however, that Ortega was paid for his work on the shows despite working under terms laid out only in a series of emails.
"Kenny Ortega is different from Conrad Murray," Trell testified.
Panish said Ortega didn't have a memorialized agreement.
Email from Dr. Murray to Wooley on May 29, 2009:
"I have performed and continue to fulfill my services to the client in good faith. Therefore, I am asking you to deposit my fee for May in reciprocity of good faith on your part as per our agreement the usual and customary date for deposit is around 15th of each month, by today's date we're 13 days beyond my monthly fee.”
Trell said they had agreed on the compensation for Dr. Murray, but needed to memorialize the deal in an agreement. Email from Wooley to Murray on May 8, 2009 details terms of the contract:
  • contracting company
  • mode of travel
  • living arrangements in London
    Another email shows Wooley asking Dr. Murray for a cancelled check for direct deposit of his monthly compensation.
Email from Gongaware to Brother Michael on 5/6/09 regarding Dr. Murray:
"Done at $150K per month, per MJ."
Trell said Gongaware was authorized to negotiate with Dr. Murray, but he was still subject to an AEG contract. Another email said executive Paul Gongaware informed others that Murray would be "full time" on the tour by mid-May
Panish asked if before a contract is written, the "meeting of the minds" is necessary. Trell agreed

Panish: And Dr. Murray was working for AEG Live in May of 2009
Trell: No, I would totally disagree with that statement
Plaintiff's attorney Brian Panish asked Trell to agree with a statement that Murray was working for AEG.
"I would totally disagree with that statement," Trell said, noting that Ortega and Murray were considered independent contractors
Trell testified that five days before Jackson's death, top AEG executives were informed that he was in poor health. By that point, Ortega had sent executives an email titled "Trouble at the front" detailing Jackson's problems
Email from Ortega to Phillips on 6/20/09
Trouble at the Front
"I honestly don't think he's ready for this based in his continued physical weakening and deepening emotional state. It is reminiscent if what Karen, Bush, Travis and I remembered just before he fainted causing the HBO Concerts to be canceled. There are strong signs of paranoia, anxiety and obsessive-like behavior. I think the very best thing we can do is get a top Psychiatrist in to evaluate him ASAP. It’s like there are two people there. One (deep inside) trying to hold on to what he was and still can be and not wanting us to quit him, the other in his weakened and troubled state … I honestly felt if I had encouraged or allowed him on stage last night he could have hurt himself. I believe we need professional guidance in this matter."
Phillips turned down the request for a psychiatrist. In emails previously published by The Times, Phillips wrote:
"It is critical that neither you, me or anyone around this show become amateur psychiatrists or physicians."
Trell said Phillips did not contact a psychiatrist, doctor or any other medical provider, but they had a meeting that same day.
"I think someone took it seriously," Trell said.
He was not present at the meeting, but it was with Dr. Murray. Trell said the company’s response was to hold a meeting that day with Jackson and his doctor, Conrad Murray. “…so I think they took it seriously,” he said
Shawn Trell will continue to testify and is expected to last all day on the witness stand. Paul Gongaware is next witness. He'll be at the courthouse first thing on Wednesday, assuming they finish with Trell by then.
Julie Hollander Transcript
Shawn Trell Transcript
https://reddit.com/link/1cwmaf2/video/oaj1ego9gm1d1/player
Rebbie Jackson leaving court
https://preview.redd.it/8tu0ktosgm1d1.jpg?width=402&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d67581df3845b5a8661da54e7a981713743113e
https://preview.redd.it/ikuu3uosgm1d1.jpg?width=439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f4e6bf1a384aeef93323bf716f8e409930ce78d
https://preview.redd.it/qc7m8uosgm1d1.jpg?width=432&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6cc1226918a45439ed8f0ea755b84d9742ed9814
https://preview.redd.it/uol2xtosgm1d1.jpg?width=425&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=579c1f3f1627f6076183005adf607228203e91a5
https://preview.redd.it/uelfhuosgm1d1.jpg?width=428&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b47053218a655d92345a12f9de2aeb7b4b9fa239
submitted by FelicitySmoak_ to WhereWasMJToday [link] [comments]


2024.05.20 14:02 FelicitySmoak_ Friday, May 20, 2005 - People v. Jackson Day 57

Friday, May 20, 2005 - People v. Jackson Day 57
Trial Day 57
Michael goes to court with Katherine & Randy.
Amidst speculation that the trial could wrap up as early as next week, Michael's former defense attorney resumed his testimony. Mark Geragos told jurors last week that he had ordered the surveillance of the Arvizo family because he “was concerned they were meeting with a lawyer to make some accusation or sell their story to tabloids.”
The lawyer also said he did not remember being told that the Arvizo family had returned to Jackson’'s Neverland Ranch in mid-February and said he was uneasy about that possibility because he
"was concerned about a false story or a concocted one."
Geragos testified that he gave a “broad directive” to investigator Brad Miller to follow the family, instructing him to “find out who they're meeting with and what they're doing.” However, he said he did not specify the particular surveillance methods to be used.
Prosecutors have previously shown surveillance videos of the family to support their allegations that Jackson & his associates were attempting to hold the Arvizo family captive.
Prosecutor Ron Zonen tried to link Miller to the alleged kidnapping conspiracy. He asked Geragos if he was aware that an employee of Millers is alleged to have thrown rocks at the house of the accuser's grandmother.
Geragos responded:
"“I don't send people out to throw stones at people's houses"
Prosecutors also questioned Geragos about the Arvizo family’s interview with the DCFS in February, 2003. In previous testimony the mother, Janet Arvizo, claimed that Miller & a man she knew as “Asef” had attended the interview. She said “Asef”, whom she believed was a part of Jackson’s security team, had asked her to secretly record the interview. She further claimed that “Asef” had threatened the safety of her parents should she not comply.
Geragos testified that he was aware the interview was taking place but said he did not direct Miller to attend or to secretly tape the interview. Importantly for the defense, he also said that Asef Vilchic in fact worked for Miller and not for Jackson.
Once again, exchanges between Zonen and Geragos were often heated. At one point, Judge Rodney Melville criticized the prosecution for approaching the witness stand too often without permission.
Geragos had refused to answer certain questions during his testimony last Friday due to a limited waiver of his attorney-client privilege. Judge Melville had been under the impression the waiver was complete, but in fact it only covered Geragos for events leading up to Jackson’s arrest.
Judge Melville said: "
"I feel deceived by Mr. Mesereau and I am considering ... sanctions of some sort against Mr. Mesereau”"
Mesereau had apologized for the confusion, explaining that he had not thought the period after the arrest would be relevant. Court observers expected the sanctions to include a fine.
The Judge said that he could have stricken Geragos’' testimony from the record but did not feel this was viable as the jury had already heard his testimony. However, he said he would entertain the prosecution's motion to strike the testimony from the record once completed.
Judge Melville also stated that a condition of his allowing Geragos to resume testimony was that whenever prosecutors asked him about events after November 2003, he was to tell the jury
"I refuse to answer that question based on attorney client privilege."
Zonen stated in court Friday that the defense may rest their case as early as next week.
"We're approaching the end of trial," he told Judge Melville. ”The defense has indicated they may be resting as early as next Tuesday."
Defense attorneys did not contradict the statement but did not comment on it.
Court Transcript
Trial reenactment
w/Katherine Jackson & security, arriving at court
Arriving at court
Susan Yu & Thomas Mesereau arriving at court
Defense witness & former MJ attorney, Mark Geragos, Steve Graff, Pat Harris and defense attorney Jesus Castillo arrive at court
Attorney Gloria Allred arrives at court
Leaving court
w/a bodyguard, Katherine Jackson & attorney Thomas Mesereau, leaving court
Leaving court
Blowing a kiss to supporters as he leaves court
Defense attorneys Susan Yu & Thomas Mesereau smile as they leave court
Leaving court
Waving to supporters as he arrives at court
Arriving at court
w/Katherine Jackson, passing through security as he arrives
Defense witness Mark Geragos passing through security as he arrives at court
Lead defense attorney Thomas Mesereau Jr. passing through security as he arrives at court
Randy Jackson passing through security as he arrives
w/a security guard, arriving back at the courtroom after a break
Defense witness Mark Geragos going back to the courtroom after a break
w/Katherine Jackson, passing through security as they arrive at court
submitted by FelicitySmoak_ to WhereWasMJToday [link] [comments]


2024.05.20 11:19 BlindMaestro Body count is a strong predictor of future infidelity and divorce

Peer-reviewed articles discussing lifetime number of sexual partners consistently show that body count is a strong predictor of infidelity, relationship dissatisfaction and divorce. Most men and women care about sexual history, and, in some respects, women care even more than men do.
Promiscuity and Infidelity
Factors found to facilitate infidelity
Number of sex partners: Greater number of sex partners before marriage predicts infidelity
As might be expected, attitudes toward infidelity specifically, permissive attitudes toward sex more generally and a greater willingness to have casual sex and to engage in sex without closeness, commitment or love (i.e., a more unrestricted sociosexual orientation) are also reliably related to infidelity (pg.71)
https://imgur.com/vCvZmQR.jpg
Fincham, F. D., & May, R. W. (2017). Infidelity in romantic relationships. Current opinion in psychology, 13, 70–74. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.copsyc.2016.03.008
.
Individuals exhibiting sexually permissive attitudes and those who have had a high number of past sexual relationships are more likely to engage in infidelity (pg.344)
https://imgur.com/a/GUWDVUi
Barta, W. D., & Kiene, S. M. (2005). Motivations for infidelity in heterosexual dating couples: The roles of gender, personality differences, and sociosexual orientation. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, 22(3), 339–360. https://doi.org/10.1177/0265407505052440
.
the odds ratio of 1.13 for lifetime sexual partners obtained with the face-to-face mode of interview indicates that the probability of infidelity increased by 13% for every additional lifetime sexual partner (pg.150)
https://imgur.com/ZhxoqNv.jpg
Whisman, M. A., & Snyder, D. K. (2007). Sexual infidelity in a national survey of American women: Differences in prevalence and correlates as a function of method of assessment. Journal of Family Psychology, 21(2), 147–154. https://doi.org/10.1037/0893-3200.21.2.147
.
promiscuity is in fact a good predictor of infidelity. Indeed, promiscuity among females accounted for almost twice as much variance in infidelity (r2 = .45) as it did for males (r2 = .25). (pg.177)
https://imgur.com/2vklWn1.jpg
Hughes, S. M., & Gallup, G. G., Jr. (2003). Sex differences in morphological predictors of sexual behavior: Shoulder to hip and waist to hip ratios. Evolution and Human Behavior, 24(3), 173–178. https://doi.org/10.1016/S1090-5138(02)00149-6
.
Participants who had experienced sexual intimacy with a greater number of partners also reported greater extradyadic sex and extradyadic kissing inclination. (pg.344)
https://i.imgur.com/gkf9CZT.jpg
McAlister, A. R., Pachana, N., & Jackson, C. J. (2005). Predictors of young dating adults' inclination to engage in extradyadic sexual activities: A multi-perspective study. British Journal of Psychology, 96(3), 331–350. https://doi.org/10.1348/000712605X47936
.
Sexual promiscuity was significantly positively correlated with emotional promiscuity [r(356) = .261, p < .001], as well with sexual infidelity [r(323) = .595, p < .001] and emotional infidelity [r(323) = .676, p < .001] (pg.390)
https://imgur.com/qEPttQz.jpg
Pinto, R., & Arantes, J. (2017). The Relationship between Sexual and Emotional Promiscuity and Infidelity. Athens Journal of Social Sciences, 4(4), 385–398. https://doi.org/10.30958/ajss.4-4-3
.
Each additional sex partner between age 18 and the first union increased the net odds of infidelity by 1% (pg.56)
https://imgur.com/poSLp4U.jpg
Treas, J., & Giesen, D. (2000). Sexual Infidelity Among Married and Cohabiting Americans. Journal of Marriage and Family, 62(1), 48–60. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2000.00048.x
.
An indicator of whether or not the respondent has had previous sex partners is included and identifies the number of male sex partners the woman had previous to her relationship with her current primary partner… A history of numerous sex partners indicates a pattern or habit of sexual behavior that we expect will negatively influence sexual exclusivity in the current relationship. (pg.37)
Having previous sexual partners greatly increased the likelihood that a woman would have a secondary sex partner. In particular, a woman with 4 or more male sex partners prior to her primary relationship was about 8.5 times more likely to have a secondary sex partnerthan a woman with no previous sex partners… Having previous sex partners also increased the likelihood that dating and married women would have secondary sex partners. In particular, married women with 4 or more previous partners were 20 times more likely to have secondary sex partners than married women with no previous sex partners (pg.41)
https://imgur.com/naqmXdN.jpg
Forste, R., & Tanfer, K. (1996). Sexual exclusivity among dating, cohabiting, and married women. Journal of Marriage and the Family, 58(1), 33–47. https://doi.org/10.2307/353375
.
As has been found in prior research (Feldman & Cauffman, 1999; Treas & Giesen, 2000), having had more prior sex partners predicted future ESI, possibly suggesting that a higher interest in or acceptance of unmarried sexual activity may be related to ESI. (pg.607)
https://imgur.com/hqXh1t8.jpg
Maddox Shaw, A. M., Rhoades, G. K., Allen, E. S., Stanley, S. M., & Markman, H. J. (2013). Predictors of Extradyadic Sexual Involvement in Unmarried Opposite-Sex Relationships. Journal of Sex Research, 50(6), 598–610. https://doi.org/10.1080/00224499.2012.666816
.
To insure that the female partner has previously avoided men and is not predisposed to seek them out, men often insist on virginity or little sexual experience (Espin 2018; Bekker et al. 1996). This idea, that low promiscuity becomes low infidelity after marriage, was supported by Essock-Vitale and McGuire (1985) who found that among adult women, promiscuity prior to marriage was also a predictor of infidelity once women were married. (pg.7809)
https://imgur.com/Y0X8ui3.jpg
Burch, R. L. (2021). Solution to paternity uncertainty. In Encyclopedia of Evolutionary Psychological Science (pp. 7808–7814). Springer International Publishing. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-16999-6_2029-1
.
Promiscuity, Instability and Divorce
When compared with their peers who report fewer partners, those who self-report 20 or more in their lifetime are:
  • Twice as likely to have ever been divorced (50 percent vs. 27 percent)
  • Three times as likely to have cheated while married (32 percent vs. 10 percent)
  • Substantially less happy with life (p < 0.05) (pg.89)
https://imgur.com/rxkpWM4.jpg
Regnerus, M. D. (2017). Cheap sex: The transformation of men, marriage, and monogamy. Oxford University Press.
.
As expected, we find evidence of a nonlinear relationship between the number of sexual partners and the risk of divorce. Those in the highest category of partners (9+) consistently show the highest divorce risk by a substantial margin, followed by those with one to eight partners, with the lowest risk for those with none. In other words, we find distinct tiers of divorce risk between those with no, some, or many premarital, nonspousal sexual partners. (pg.16)
https://i.imgur.com/mcSj4g0.jpg
Smith, J., & Wolfinger, N. H. (2023). Re-examining the link between premarital sex and divorce. Journal of Family Issues, 0192513X2311556. https://doi.org/10.1177/0192513x231155673
.
The findings from this study demonstrate that the number of sexual partners participants had was negatively associated with sexual quality, communication, and relationship stability, and for one age cohort relationship satisfaction, even when controlling for a wide range of variables including education, religiosity, and relationship length. (pg.715)
https://i.imgur.com/0MuuWmd.jpg
Busby, D. M., Willoughby, B. J., & Carroll, J. S. (2013). Sowing wild oats: Valuable experience or a field full of weeds? Personal Relationships, 20(4), 706–718. https://doi.org/10.1111/pere.12009
.
women who had more experience with short-term relationships in the past (i.e., those with high Behavior facet scores) were more likely to have multiple sexual partners and unstable relationships in the future. The behaviorally expressed level of sociosexuality thus seems to be a fairly stable personal characteristic. (pg. 1131)
https://i.imgur.com/k3ZcwTn.jpg
Penke, L., & Asendorpf, J. B. (2008). Beyond global sociosexual orientations: a more differentiated look at sociosexuality and its effects on courtship and romantic relationships. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 95(5), 1113–1135. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.95.5.1113
.
Women who serially cohabited and/or had premarital sex with someone besides their husband had higher odds of marital dissolution than women who never cohabited. Teachman’s findings suggest that both sexual history and cohabitation history influence marital stability. (pg.4)
Serial cohabitors’ higher number of sexual and cohabiting partners suggests that they have a longer history of dissolved relationships -- i.e., sexual, (most likely dating) and cohabiting relationships – that they bring to their cohabiting and later marital relationships. This relationship experience may affect the quality and stability of their cohabiting relationship and the odds of marrying their cohabiting partners. Consistent with Teachman (2003), who found that both sexual and cohabiting partnerships significantly predicted the odds of marital dissolution, our findings suggest that studies of union formation and stability should consider the full range of sexual experiences in early adulthood. (pg.11)
https://i.imgur.com/jzTUT5p.jpg
Cohen, J., & Manning, W. (2010). The relationship context of premarital serial cohabitation. Social Science Research, 39(5), 766–776. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ssresearch.2010.04.011
submitted by BlindMaestro to ControversialOpinions [link] [comments]


2024.05.20 11:06 BlindMaestro Body count is a strong predictor of infidelity and divorce

Peer-reviewed articles discussing lifetime number of sexual partners consistently show that body count is a strong predictor of infidelity, relationship dissatisfaction and divorce. Most men and women care about sexual history, and, in some respects, women care even more than men do.
Promiscuity and Infidelity
Factors found to facilitate infidelity
Number of sex partners: Greater number of sex partners before marriage predicts infidelity
As might be expected, attitudes toward infidelity specifically, permissive attitudes toward sex more generally and a greater willingness to have casual sex and to engage in sex without closeness, commitment or love (i.e., a more unrestricted sociosexual orientation) are also reliably related to infidelity (pg.71)
https://imgur.com/vCvZmQR.jpg
Fincham, F. D., & May, R. W. (2017). Infidelity in romantic relationships. Current opinion in psychology, 13, 70–74. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.copsyc.2016.03.008
.
Individuals exhibiting sexually permissive attitudes and those who have had a high number of past sexual relationships are more likely to engage in infidelity (pg.344)
https://imgur.com/a/GUWDVUi
Barta, W. D., & Kiene, S. M. (2005). Motivations for infidelity in heterosexual dating couples: The roles of gender, personality differences, and sociosexual orientation. Journal of Social and Personal Relationships, 22(3), 339–360. https://doi.org/10.1177/0265407505052440
.
the odds ratio of 1.13 for lifetime sexual partners obtained with the face-to-face mode of interview indicates that the probability of infidelity increased by 13% for every additional lifetime sexual partner (pg.150)
https://imgur.com/ZhxoqNv.jpg
Whisman, M. A., & Snyder, D. K. (2007). Sexual infidelity in a national survey of American women: Differences in prevalence and correlates as a function of method of assessment. Journal of Family Psychology, 21(2), 147–154. https://doi.org/10.1037/0893-3200.21.2.147
.
promiscuity is in fact a good predictor of infidelity. Indeed, promiscuity among females accounted for almost twice as much variance in infidelity (r2 = .45) as it did for males (r2 = .25). (pg.177)
https://imgur.com/2vklWn1.jpg
Hughes, S. M., & Gallup, G. G., Jr. (2003). Sex differences in morphological predictors of sexual behavior: Shoulder to hip and waist to hip ratios. Evolution and Human Behavior, 24(3), 173–178. https://doi.org/10.1016/S1090-5138(02)00149-6
.
Participants who had experienced sexual intimacy with a greater number of partners also reported greater extradyadic sex and extradyadic kissing inclination. (pg.344)
https://i.imgur.com/gkf9CZT.jpg
McAlister, A. R., Pachana, N., & Jackson, C. J. (2005). Predictors of young dating adults' inclination to engage in extradyadic sexual activities: A multi-perspective study. British Journal of Psychology, 96(3), 331–350. https://doi.org/10.1348/000712605X47936
.
Sexual promiscuity was significantly positively correlated with emotional promiscuity [r(356) = .261, p < .001], as well with sexual infidelity [r(323) = .595, p < .001] and emotional infidelity [r(323) = .676, p < .001] (pg.390)
https://imgur.com/qEPttQz.jpg
Pinto, R., & Arantes, J. (2017). The Relationship between Sexual and Emotional Promiscuity and Infidelity. Athens Journal of Social Sciences, 4(4), 385–398. https://doi.org/10.30958/ajss.4-4-3
.
Each additional sex partner between age 18 and the first union increased the net odds of infidelity by 1% (pg.56)
https://imgur.com/poSLp4U.jpg
Treas, J., & Giesen, D. (2000). Sexual Infidelity Among Married and Cohabiting Americans. Journal of Marriage and Family, 62(1), 48–60. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2000.00048.x
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An indicator of whether or not the respondent has had previous sex partners is included and identifies the number of male sex partners the woman had previous to her relationship with her current primary partner… A history of numerous sex partners indicates a pattern or habit of sexual behavior that we expect will negatively influence sexual exclusivity in the current relationship. (pg.37)
Having previous sexual partners greatly increased the likelihood that a woman would have a secondary sex partner. In particular, a woman with 4 or more male sex partners prior to her primary relationship was about 8.5 times more likely to have a secondary sex partnerthan a woman with no previous sex partners… Having previous sex partners also increased the likelihood that dating and married women would have secondary sex partners. In particular, married women with 4 or more previous partners were 20 times more likely to have secondary sex partners than married women with no previous sex partners (pg.41)
https://imgur.com/naqmXdN.jpg
Forste, R., & Tanfer, K. (1996). Sexual exclusivity among dating, cohabiting, and married women. Journal of Marriage and the Family, 58(1), 33–47. https://doi.org/10.2307/353375
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As has been found in prior research (Feldman & Cauffman, 1999; Treas & Giesen, 2000), having had more prior sex partners predicted future ESI, possibly suggesting that a higher interest in or acceptance of unmarried sexual activity may be related to ESI. (pg.607)
https://imgur.com/hqXh1t8.jpg
Maddox Shaw, A. M., Rhoades, G. K., Allen, E. S., Stanley, S. M., & Markman, H. J. (2013). Predictors of Extradyadic Sexual Involvement in Unmarried Opposite-Sex Relationships. Journal of Sex Research, 50(6), 598–610. https://doi.org/10.1080/00224499.2012.666816
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To insure that the female partner has previously avoided men and is not predisposed to seek them out, men often insist on virginity or little sexual experience (Espin 2018; Bekker et al. 1996). This idea, that low promiscuity becomes low infidelity after marriage, was supported by Essock-Vitale and McGuire (1985) who found that among adult women, promiscuity prior to marriage was also a predictor of infidelity once women were married. (pg.7809)
https://imgur.com/Y0X8ui3.jpg
Burch, R. L. (2021). Solution to paternity uncertainty. In Encyclopedia of Evolutionary Psychological Science (pp. 7808–7814). Springer International Publishing. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-16999-6_2029-1
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Promiscuity, Instability and Divorce
When compared with their peers who report fewer partners, those who self-report 20 or more in their lifetime are:
  • Twice as likely to have ever been divorced (50 percent vs. 27 percent)
  • Three times as likely to have cheated while married (32 percent vs. 10 percent)
  • Substantially less happy with life (p < 0.05) (pg.89)
https://imgur.com/rxkpWM4.jpg
Regnerus, M. D. (2017). Cheap sex: The transformation of men, marriage, and monogamy. Oxford University Press.
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As expected, we find evidence of a nonlinear relationship between the number of sexual partners and the risk of divorce. Those in the highest category of partners (9+) consistently show the highest divorce risk by a substantial margin, followed by those with one to eight partners, with the lowest risk for those with none. In other words, we find distinct tiers of divorce risk between those with no, some, or many premarital, nonspousal sexual partners. (pg.16)
https://i.imgur.com/mcSj4g0.jpg
Smith, J., & Wolfinger, N. H. (2023). Re-examining the link between premarital sex and divorce. Journal of Family Issues, 0192513X2311556. https://doi.org/10.1177/0192513x231155673
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The findings from this study demonstrate that the number of sexual partners participants had was negatively associated with sexual quality, communication, and relationship stability, and for one age cohort relationship satisfaction, even when controlling for a wide range of variables including education, religiosity, and relationship length. (pg.715)
https://i.imgur.com/0MuuWmd.jpg
Busby, D. M., Willoughby, B. J., & Carroll, J. S. (2013). Sowing wild oats: Valuable experience or a field full of weeds? Personal Relationships, 20(4), 706–718. https://doi.org/10.1111/pere.12009
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women who had more experience with short-term relationships in the past (i.e., those with high Behavior facet scores) were more likely to have multiple sexual partners and unstable relationships in the future. The behaviorally expressed level of sociosexuality thus seems to be a fairly stable personal characteristic. (pg. 1131)
https://i.imgur.com/k3ZcwTn.jpg
Penke, L., & Asendorpf, J. B. (2008). Beyond global sociosexual orientations: a more differentiated look at sociosexuality and its effects on courtship and romantic relationships. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 95(5), 1113–1135. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.95.5.1113
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Women who serially cohabited and/or had premarital sex with someone besides their husband had higher odds of marital dissolution than women who never cohabited. Teachman’s findings suggest that both sexual history and cohabitation history influence marital stability. (pg.4)
Serial cohabitors’ higher number of sexual and cohabiting partners suggests that they have a longer history of dissolved relationships -- i.e., sexual, (most likely dating) and cohabiting relationships – that they bring to their cohabiting and later marital relationships. This relationship experience may affect the quality and stability of their cohabiting relationship and the odds of marrying their cohabiting partners. Consistent with Teachman (2003), who found that both sexual and cohabiting partnerships significantly predicted the odds of marital dissolution, our findings suggest that studies of union formation and stability should consider the full range of sexual experiences in early adulthood. (pg.11)
https://i.imgur.com/jzTUT5p.jpg
Cohen, J., & Manning, W. (2010). The relationship context of premarital serial cohabitation. Social Science Research, 39(5), 766–776. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ssresearch.2010.04.011
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2024.05.20 04:13 iForumBlueMyself Still can’t get over how perfect Snow on the Beach was used (Way Too Deep Dive)

As a Swiftie I was so excited to see how they would use this song when I found out it was going to be featured. The lyrics are just so perfect for the moment, almost feels like it was written for the show even though we know it isn’t lol apologies for the VERY long deep dive here! I posted the full lyrics below too. Hope you enjoy!
“One night, a few moons ago I saw flecks of what could’ve been light” - the kiss, Colin’s realization of his feelings
“But it might just have been you passing by unbeknownst to me” - Colin unsure of if Penelope felt/feels the same
“Life is emotionally abusive” - by his own words it’s been torture
“And time can’t stop me quite like you did” - his thoughts being consumed by her, hasn’t been able to move on from that night
“And my flight was awful, thanks for asking.” - she didn’t write him back during his travels, and he missed her. He boasts stories but we see later that they were all hallow and empty to him.
“I’m unglued, thanks to you” - he literally can’t function now. Also related to the previous line, she didn’t write and he lost his identity without her there to remind him of who he really is. Pen has basically been unglued since they met!
“Flying in a dream, stars by the pocketful” - both of them living in the fantasy of each other. So idk if this line is a direct reference to the book “Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand” (likely is given all the stars/space references in the song) but there is a lot to unpack here for why Taylor may be referencing this text, but for the parts that relate to Colin and Pen, basically (very basically as this is a very complex work) it’s a sci-fi story about two beings who find their perfect impossible match among the vast universe and what implications does that have among the intergalactic universe and politics. One of the main points of the novel is asking the reader to challenge societal rules about love and desire and how the main character’s desire for the other was not the societal norm and they are breaking these norms. There is a binary world but they don’t play in the binary rules.
The chorus: self explanatory it’s about thinking it’s unbelievable that someone you’ve wanted for so long could want you back. It’s rare and weird to see, “like snow on the beach.”
“You wanting me tonight feels impossible” - can be seen from both Penelope and Colin here thinking their feelings are never going to be reciprocated.
“But it’s coming down, no sound, it’s all around” - they see it but can’t believe it, it’s overcoming them, surrounding them, but it doesn’t feel real. Penelope doubting the things she’s seeing because she’s been burned by reading the signs wrong for so long. Colin seeing Pen take Debling’s hand to dance, walking away from him so she must not feel the same. Both trying to deny it but it’s happening, it doesn’t feel real so it must not be right? Everyone else seeing what’s happening but to them they’re lost in their own heads.
“This scene feels like what I once saw on screen” - or in this case in the “silly” romance novels Pen reads. Colin rushing in to stop her from marrying someone she doesn’t love and who doesn’t love her. Knight in shining armor, Cinderella, fairytales, etc.
“I searched aurora borealis green” - I mean the green dress, hello?? Beautiful patterns and fabrics of green she wears all season. Colin searching for her through the crowds. Also the green aurora is caused by oxygen aka they need each other like air.
“I’ve never seen someone lit from within blurring out my periphery” - the world falls away when they look at each other. They see the other person’s glow like no one else. Two parts stand out for me for this is the sunlight that hits Pen after Colin leaves and they make their agreement for him to help her find a husband (she is left in his glow) only to crash back when the latest LW paper comes and she realizes what she wrote about him. And the scene at the party where Colin walks to Pen after speaking to his mom about having the courage to ask if she felt the same - the scene around them blurs out and the parallel of coming back to reality when Debling comes over. They’re so focused on the other they don’t see/remember the world. Lots of examples of this line honestly.
“My smile is like I won a contest and to hide that would be so dishonest and it's fine to fake it 'til you make it ‘til you do, 'til it's true” - the laughter and friendship they share, the giddiness when they let down their barriers and see each other, when they hid their feelings they are dishonest to themselves. I also like this as Penelope trying to convince Colin she cares for him and maybe if she shows him how much they’re perfect for each other she can will it to be true.
“I (I) can't (can't) speak afraid to jinx it I (I) don't (don't) even dare to wish it” - follow up to the previous line, Penelope never saying out loud how she feels for Colin because then it would be real outside her mind and people will break her dream. Also Colin not being able to talk to Violet about his question being about Pen. Both of them only dream of the other, unable to speak on their feelings because what if it’s all in their head?
“But your eyes are flying saucers from another planet” - both of their eyes speaking their feelings to each other when their words fail. When they look at each other they are transported to a different reality that seems otherworldly. Also see my notes on the pocket full of stars line that joins here talking about the universe and finding each other.
This is one of my fav ones because it’s a lyric-ception: “now I’m all for you like Janet” - a reference to the song “All for You” by Janet Jackson, lyrics below are self explanatory:
“Finally I figured out But it took a long, long time Now there's a turnabout Maybe 'cause I'm tryin
There's been times (I'm so confused) All my roads (they lead to you) Just can't turn and walk away
Well, it's hard to say what it is I see in you Wonder if I'll always be with you Words can't say it and I can't do Enough to prove it's all for you
I thought I'd seen it all 'Cause it's been a long, long time Oh, but then we'll trip and fall Wonderin' if I'm blind
Rain comes pourin' down (pourin' down) Fallin' from blue skies (fallin' from blue skies) Words give out a sound Comin' from your eyes”
“Can this be a real thing? Can it? Are we falling like snow at the beach?” - them finally thinking and admitting that the dream world where they are together is real. They are the rare and beautiful thing they deemed impossible. They fell for each other in an inprobable but real way. Two things (snow/beach) that don’t seem to be compatible but when they come together it’s the most beautiful and special moment like they should have always been that way.
Full lyrics:
One night, a few moons ago I saw flecks of what could've been lights But it might just have been you Passing by unbeknownst to me Life is emotionally abusive And time can't stop me quite like you did And my flight was awful, thanks for asking I'm unglued, thanks to you And it's like snow at the beach Weird but fuckin' beautiful Flying in a dream, stars by the pocketful You wanting me tonight feels impossible But it's comin' down, no sound, it's all around Like snow on the beach Like snow on the beach Like snow on the beach Like snow, oh, oh oh This scene feels like what I once saw on a screen I searched aurora borealis green I've never seen someone lit from within Blurring out my periphery My smile is like I won a contest And to hide that would be so dishonest And it's fine to fake it 'til you make it 'Til you do, 'til it's true Now it's like snow at the beach Weird but fuckin' beautiful Flying in a dream, stars by the pocketful You wanting me tonight feels impossible But it's comin' down, no sound, it's all around Like snow on the beach Like snow on the beach Like snow on the beach Like snow, oh, oh oh I (I) can't (can't) speak afraid to jinx it I (I) don't (don't) even dare to wish it But your eyes are flying saucers from another planet Now I'm all for you like Janet Can this be a real thing? Can it? Are we falling like snow at the beach? (Snow at the beach) Weird but fuckin' beautiful Flying in a dream, stars by the pocketful (flying in a dream) You wanting me tonight feels impossible (you wanting me) But it's comin' down, no sound, it's all around Like snow on the beach (snow on the beach) Like snow on the beach (flying in a dream) Like snow on the beach (you wanting me) Like snow, oh But it's comin' down, no sound, it's all around Like snow on the beach (it's comin' down, it's comin' down) (It's comin' down, it's comin' down) (Like snow on the beach) (It's comin' down, it's comin' down, it's comin' down, it's comin' down) (It's comin' down, it's comin' down, it's comin' down, it's comin' down) (Comin' down, it's comin' down, it's comin' down, it's comin' down)
Obviously this was a VERY deep dive but as someone who just deep dives Taylor’s songs so much it seemed like a fun way to take this song and relate it to Colin and Penelope, so thank you if you stayed with me the whole way. Whoever picked this was definitely in their feelings after hearing it too and had to include it in this season. I thank them for their service 🫡🫶
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2024.05.19 22:30 KingCreeperSeth My DCU (Chapter 1: Gods on Earth - Act 3)

Hello everyone! Sorry for the long wait, between varying interests and having to make this entire act from scratch rather than just giving it an update, this portion of my DCU definitely did take longer to make than most! But I’m here, I’m ready, let’s get right into it!
As usual, here is the lineup for this concluding act to my first chapter of the DCU:
  1. The Flashpoint Paradox (Film);
  2. Hawk man and Hawkgirl (Film);
  3. The Birds of Prey (Film);
  4. Cyborg Season 2 (TV Show);
  5. The Justice Society (Film);
  6. Aquaman: The Last King (Film);
  7. Superman: Warworld (Film);
  8. Teen Titans: Judas (Film);
  9. The Brave and the Bold 2 (Film);
  10. The Supers (TV Show);
  11. Wonder Woman: Odyssey (Film);
  12. Batgirl Season 2 (TV Show);
  13. Batman: The Red Hood (Film);
  14. Justice League Apokalips Part 1: War (Film);
  15. Suicide Squad: Operation Apokalips (Film);
  16. The New Gods (Film);
  17. Justice League Apokalips Part 2: Crisis (Film)
And without further ado, here we go:
-The Flashpoint Paradox (Film)
Protagonists: The Flash, Batman (Thomas Wayne) Antagonists: Reverse Flash, Flashpoint Aquaman, Flashpoint Wonder Woman Side Characters: Cyborg, Flashpoint Superman, Nora and Henry Allen, Lois Lane, Rebellion, Atlantians, Amazonians Cameo Characters: Superman, Batman, Jason Todd
Plot: Barry Allen had done the unthinkable. He ran fast enough to break through the time barrier and save his mother’s life. But would the butterfly effect be worth it? Nora Allen was alive, but the world Barry knew before was dead, replaced with one unfamiliar to him. Bruce Wayne is dead, Metropolis was almost completely destroyed, and on top of all of that, the friends he had once known were were fighting a war that could spell doom for the entire world. Can Barry keep this new universe together? Or will a haunting shadow remind him why you should never change the past?
Setting: Central City, Metropolis
Mid-Credits Scene: On a faraway planet, a stolen relic called the Regeneration Matrix is regenerating a figure back to full health from their coffin. When the process is complete, the figure awakens and sits up in his coffin. He looks around, revealed to be Superman back from the dead, asking where he is. A nearby medical robot gives him a simple answer, “Warworld.”
Post-Credits Scene: Focus is put onto the Wayne Family graveyard, panning over numerous graves. Eventually, the focus is directed to the grave of Jason Todd, though the grave is dug up and the coffin underneath is empty. Nearby, a figure is limping through the cemetery, revealed to be Jason Todd, who is leaving his grave and heading towards Gotham.
-Hawkman and Hawkgirl (Film)
Protagonists: Hawkman, Hawkgirl Antagonist: Hath-Set Side Characters: (Idk I’m not very up to date on their lore lol) Cameo Character: Doctor Fate
Plot: Carter Hall and Shiera Sanders are two ordinary individuals with no connection whatsoever. That is, until an enemy from the ancient past makes his return to remind them of how they are bound. The two hawk-people must now work together to break a dark cycle they are forever caught in, and along the way, remember who they were meant to be in lives past.
Settings: New York, briefly Egypt
Mid-Credits Scene: Having survived the cycle for the first time, Carter and Shiera enjoy their momentary peace at home. However, a man who calls himself Doctor Fate appears before them and requests their help. He tells them a threat of considerable proportions is on its way to Earth, and he needs their assistance to defeat it. They ask for time to think it over, to which Doctor Fate gives them, but warns them that time is running short.
-The Birds of Prey (Film)
Protagonists: Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Black Canary, Huntress, Katana Antagonists: Joker’s Daughter, Sons of Joker, the Joker Side Characters: Francine Charles, Commissioner Gordon, Renée Montoya, other characters’ respective side characters Cameo Characters: Oliver Queen, Batman, Jason Todd
Plot: Batgirl has spent months getting her team into line, but they are finally ready. Black Canary, Huntress, and a new girl calling herself Katana, under Barbara’s leadership become a new, fierce superhero team called the Birds of Prey. Their first mission? Bring down the Sons of Joker, and learn their connection to the Clown Prince of Crime himself. But will the new team be able to work together? Or will Barbara crumble, and bring her team with her?
Setting: Gotham City
Mid-Credits Scene: Within her hospital room following being shot and paralyzed by the Joker, Barbara is visited by a man while she sleeps. This man is revealed to be Jason Todd, who apologizes for Barbara’s fate, blaming Batman for another failure, though he guarantees this one will be his last.
-Cyborg Season 2 (TV Show)
Protagonist: Cyborg Antagonists: The Brain, Monsieur Mallah Side Characters: Silas Stone, Sarah Charles, Beast Boy Cameo Characters: T. O. Morrow, The Grid
Overall Plot: After much grief between his friends and coworkers Superman and Nightwing, Cyborg finds himself disconnected from his friends and begins taking justice across the world into his own hands. But when he faces a threat that he finds himself unable to defeat alone, he learns to open himself up to those around him, and share his pain so that others may help to fix it.
Episode One Plot: Cyborg seeks to solve the problems of people around him his own way, which leads him into the heart of a rogue H.I.V.E. operation calling themselves B.R.A.I.N.
Episode Two Plot: Cyborg launches his own investigation into BRAIN, but finds Beast Boy as an interference when he tries helping his friend out.
Episode Three Plot: Trapped on an unknown island, Cyborg must rely on the help from his friend Beast Boy when his systems shut down and they seek an escape.
Episode Four Plot: BRAIN reveals itself to be ruled by a robotic organism called the Brain, which reveals its plans for world domination to Cyborg.
Episode Five Plot: Attempting a search for the Brain’s supposed doomsday device, Cyborg uncovers a large conspiracy tying the Brain back to the invader Brainiac.
Episode Six Plot: In the season finale, Cyborg learns to let his friends in as he stops the Brain from continuing Brainiac’s work and controlling the world.
Setting: Central City, various other places
Mid-Credits Scene: After defeating the Brain, Cyborg leaves his computer running on an AI program he created called “The Grid.” When he leaves, a string of green code merges itself with the blue code running on the screen, turning a large portion of it green in the shape of a skull.
-The Justice Society (Film)
Protagonists: Doctor Fate, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, the Flash (Jay Garrick), Green Lantern (Alan Scott), Mister Terrific, Wildcat, Stargirl Antagonist: Despero Side Characters: Respective side characters (I’m lazy, sorry lol) Cameo Characters: Adam Strange, Vandal Savage
Plot: For the past few years, Doctor Fate has sensed a presence of tremendous power threatening to invade the earth, and now that presence has finally arrived. Despero, a conqueror from the stars with unlimited power, has arrived on earth, yet the Justice League is spread too thin and too far to help against the incoming threat. Fate realizes that he will have to assemble a new team to defeat Despero and stop his invasion, a team he has spent the better part of the past few months gathering.
Settings: Various cities
Mid-Credits Scene: Following their victory and return home, the Justice Society are confronted by a mysterious man called Adam Strange, who teleported himself to them to warn of a new incoming threat, and claiming that they have come for Carter and Shiera.
Post-Credits Scene: Far away, mysterious soldiers locate a tomb and open a single coffin resting inside. Out from the coffin springs a large man, who attacks the soldiers before asking what year it is, and who they are. They answer that it is the 21st century, and they are here to welcome “the Savage,” to the new age, to which the man laughs maniacally.
-Aquaman: The Last King (Film)
Protagonists: Aquaman, Aqualad (Jackson Hyde) Antagonists: Black Manta, Starro Side Characters: Mera, Orm, Garth, Arthur Jr., Atlanteans Cameo Characters: Jesse Hyde
Plot: At last, Black Manta’s final revenge has come. For years, he has been plotting, researching a way to exact his vengeance on Aquaman following so many failures. At last, he has found it, enlisting the help of an ancient beast from the stars named Starro to help him destroy Atlantis and claim the title of its dark king. But when both Aquaman and Manta find that the new conqueror seeks control and destruction of everything they know, new alliances must be forged to bring peace to Atlantis once and for all.
Setting: Atlantis
Mid-Credits Scene: Following his sacrifice to defeat Starro, David finds himself in an ocean-like afterlife, where he meets his father Jesse for the first time in years. David apologizes for his actions, and his grief, to which Jesse forgives him, and the two embrace once more.
-Superman: Warworld (Film)
Protagonist: Superman Antagonists: Mongul, Ultra Humanite, Mongul’s Champions (The Teacher, the Mother, the Orphan, the Darling, and the Unmade) Side Characters: Kryl-Ux, Otho-Ra, Osul-Ra, Thao-La Cameo Characters: The Eradicator, Cyborg Superman, Lois Lane
Plot: After being killed by Doomsday during the Brainiac Invasion, Superman has found himself brought back to life via a lost Kryptonian Regeneration Matrix located on the distant planet Warworld. Once he is awakened, Superman is quickly introduced to the harsh, gladiator-like lifestyle of the planet, run by its cruel ruler: Mongul. Superman must now put his strength and will to the test as he battles and chooses his way through a cosmic adventure like no other, all in an attempt to return home and rescue the people of the desolate planet.
Setting: Warworld
Mid-Credits Scene: On Earth, in the Fortress of Solitude, a similar Regeneration Matrix has finished the body that was meant to be Superman’s, but a new force has taken it over. The Eradicator declares himself Superman, and seeks to prove itself as the ultimate Man of Steel.
Post-Credits Scene: Lois Lane is walking out of a shop with a coffee in hand, when she notices a red and blue figure flying through the sky. Her, and many civilians, rush to the city square to see the returned Man of Steel, only for him to turn his face and reveal a half-robotic one underneath.
-Teen Titans: Judas (Film)
Protagonists: Red X, Starfire, Cyborg, Raven, Beast Boy, Kid Flash, Donna Troy Antagonists: H.I.V.E. (Namely Adeline Kane and Damien Darhk), Deathstroke, Terra Side Characters: None Cameo Characters: Blue Beetle, Aqualad, Bumblebee, Arsenal, Rose Wilson
Plot: Following the supposed death of Nightwing, the Titans have mostly disbanded to follow their own paths. But when the villainous mercenary Deathstroke returns to the scene to exact revenge for his son’s death, the young heroes must unify once again to put an end to H.I.V.E., before they are all killed. But with a traitor in their team, and a thief who feels all to similar to the team’s dearly departed leader, the Titans find themselves lost in a conspiracy that leaves them unsure of who to trust and who not to.
Setting: San Francisco
Mid-Credits Scene: With Grayson alive and returned to his rightful position as team leader, Starfire asks him if things will truly be back to normal. Nightwing tells her no, that the events of the last few days have opened his eyes to not only be more careful, but also to increase his efforts to better train the next generation of superheroes. He shows her the new rebuilt tower, labeled Titans Academy, with a good few new recruits already waiting outside.
Post-Credits Scene: After being sent to prison, Slade is confronted by his daughter Rose, who has come to visit him. She shames him for his act of violence against the children, claiming that he has brought dishonor to their family. He retorts, saying that he did it out of love and mourning for Grant, and that she should be ashamed for not doing anything. The two leave with a disagreement and hatred for one another, Rose pulling out a tracker to the Titans Academy, as well as a mask she intends to wear for the trip.
-The Brave and the Bold 2 (Film)
Protagonists: Green Arrow, Black Canary, Arsenal Antagonist: Cheshire Side Characters: Respective side characters (who I still don’t know cuz I don’t read their comics lol) Cameo Characters: Batman, Ra’s Al Ghul, Shado
Plot: Oliver Queen and Dinah Lance, now betrothed to one another, have their life set. Marriage, money, and the skills to defend themselves and their city against any who may dare seek to soil it. But as new faces good and bad come into play, the super power-couple must be more strategic with their approach to crime-fighting if they want to preserve the good of their city, before all hell can break loose.
Setting: Star City
Mid-Credits Scene: Following news coverage of Green Arrow and Black Canary’s heroics against Cheshire, a woman far across the world catches wind of the report and prepares her weapons. She gears up, leaving her hideout as Shado now makes her way to Star City.
Post-Credits Scene: Observing the chaos and failure of his wild-card protégé Cheshire, Ra’s Al Ghul has a confrontation with Batman, where the Caped Crusader warns Ra’s to put an end to is theatrics in Star City. Ra’s tells Batman he has no more interest in Star City, having failed twice, but he warns Batman to keep out of his affairs, or else Gotham may be the next place the League of Assassins visits.
-The Supers (TV Show)
Protagonists: Supergirl, Steel, Lois Lane, Superboy Antagonists: Cyborg Superman, the Eradicator, Livewire, Parasite, Intergang Side Characters: Jimmy Olsen, Martha Kent, Lex Luthor, Perry White, Kat Grant, Steve Lombard Cameo Characters: Superman, Hal Jordan
Overall Plot: Superman is dead, and Metropolis is in the hands of new saviors now. Since the Man of Steel was killed by Doomsday, there have been those like Steel and Superboy who have risen up to take up the mantle the Kryptonian left behind. But others, like the Eradicator and the new “Cyborg Superman,” have taken justice in a more violent direction. But is the Man of Steel really dead? And how do the new imposters tie into his return? As Lois and Supergirl team up with new heroes to investigate, they are led down a rabbit hole of resurrections and revenge, one that will leave them with dark answers they may not be ready for.
Episode One Plot: A funeral is held for Superman following his death, but in mourning, the Man of Steel seems to have returned, losing his cape and donning new Golden goggles.
Episode Two Plot: As Steel makes his presence known, he comes into conflict with the the new Superman when debating the fate of a villainess on the run. Meanwhile, Lois begins investigating the appearance of the new Superman, but her investigation is cut short by the appearance of a brand new Cyborg Superman, claiming to be the real hero returned.
Episode Three Plot: Superboy, a clone on the run, makes a name for himself in Metropolis as a younger, cockier hero missing the values of the original Superman. Meanwhile, Lois takes the time to talk with Supergirl, sharing with her the suspicions she has on the new Supermen.
Episode Four Plot: Lex Luthor has prepared a gala to announce his new plans for Super-Police to defend the city following Superman’s death. But when the new Supermen finally clash in a confrontation to debate letting Luthor live and killing him for his crimes, the public finally get a chance to decide who their saviors are.
Episode Five Plot: Declared the true savior of Metropolis, Cyborg Superman is put to the test when he faces a new threat: the Parasite. Meanwhile, Lois and Supergirl enlist the help of Steel to investigate the truth of the Cyborg Superman.
Episode Six Plot: In one last act to prove himself, the Eradicator attacks Cyborg Superman, dying in the battle. However, Cyborg Superman’s victory is short-lived, as Lois, Supergirl, and Steel out the truth behind him and the deceased scientist Hank Henshaw.
Episode Seven Plot: Furious with his reveal, Cyborg Superman goes ballistic, assaulting the military and claiming the means to destroy half of the country in a nuclear attack.
Episode Eight Plot: All bets are off in the season finale as Lois, Supergirl, Steel, and Superboy race to stop Cyborg Superman’s plot for nuclear destruction. A race that only becomes more definite as the real Man of Steel finally returns from the dead to save the world.
Settings: Metropolis, Smallville
Mid-Credits Scene: Following the mostly failed nuclear attack, Hal Jordan returns to Earth to find Coast City in ruin, the only city nuked in the attack. He grows angry and mournful, showing the first sign of losing himself to darkness.
-Wonder Woman: Odyssey (Film)
Protagonist: Wonder Woman Antagonists: Circe, Cheetah, Hades, various mythological monsters, Furies Side Characters: Hippolyta, Artemis Cameo Characters: Zeus, various other gods, Steve Trevor
Plot: After decades of living among man and acting as their hero, the consequences of Diana’s actions have finally caught up with her. The sorceress Circe has been freed, and has destroyed Diana’s home of Themyscira. She has now partnered with the Cheetah as her disciple, seeking to delve into the Underworld to free Hades from the deepest depths of Tartarus. Diana must now travel through the rings of Hell and battle through a gauntlet of beasts and enemies to stop their plot and prove herself worthy of being called Wonder Woman.
Settings: Themyscira, the Underworld
Mid-Credits Scene: Following the near-escape of Hades, with involvement from Cheetah, the Old Gods of Greece meet to determine how they handle this matter moving forward. Ultimately, Zeus decides that the mortals of man’s world have become too dangerous, and declares war on the mortal realm and those who may defend it.
Post-Credits Scene: Following her redemption in the Underworld, Cheetah returns to the old wrecked base she had been frozen inside of during World War II. She explores deep inside the frozen lair, eventually coming across a large chunk of ice that had gone undiscovered until now. And within lies Steve Trevor, perfectly preserved for over 80 years.
-Batgirl Season 2 (TV Show)
Protagonist: Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) Antagonists: David Cain, the League of Assassins Side Characters: Oracle (Barbara Gordon), Batman, Commissioner Gordon, Alfred, Robin Cameo Characters: Red Hood
Overall Plot: Barbara Gordon has been shot and paralyzed, leaving Gotham without a Batgirl... temporarily. When the League of Assassins makes good on their threat and comes to Gotham, a young assassin by the name of Cassandra Cain tries to prove herself as the greatest assassin the League has ever known. But when she fails and finds herself deserted by the League and her own father, Barbara sees a light in her and shows her she has the power to be a great hero instead.
Episode One Plot: The League of Assassins make their way into Gotham as a young Cassandra Cain tries but fails to break into Oracle’s clocktower.
Episode Two Plot: Feeling shame for her failure, Cassandra is lifted up by Barbara, who convinces her that she is capable of being a hero instead.
Episode Three Plot: Cassandra begins her first night of patrol in Gotham as the new Batgirl, but meets resistance when Batman denies the presence of a new Batgirl.
Episode Four Plot: Determined to prove herself, Cassandra follows Batman on a mission to stop a potential assassination, during which the two open up to one another.
Episode Five Plot: Cassandra gets her first taste of a sidekick team-up as she and Robin work together to prevent a terrorist attack from the League of Assassins.
Episode Six Plot: Stakes are high in the season finale, as Cassandra re-confronts her father and seeks to stop the League’s plans for destroying Gotham, by any means necessary.
Setting: Gotham City
Mid-Credits Scene: Feeling disdain for the destruction caused by the League of Assassins, Jason decides it is time to enact his plan and take Gotham for himself, no matter the costs.
-Batman: The Red Hood (Film)
Protagonists: Batman, Robin (Tim Drake), Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) Antagonists: Red Hood, Bane, Joker Side Characters: Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, Oracle, Nightwing, Catwoman, Lucius Fox, Harvey Bullock, Renée Montoya, Mayor Krol Cameo Characters: Darkseid, Azrael
Plot: Bane has arrived, and with him comes the Caped Crusader’s darkest days. Bane has seized control of the city and vows to both break the Batman and ruin everything he holds dear. However, he finds rivalry in the criminal underworld, as a new figure called the Red Hood emerges to take Gotham back his way. Batman is now caught in the crosshairs of a dark beast of destruction and a vengeful ghost from the past battling for control of the city, and with the Dark Knight losing his grip more and more each day, people wonder if the city really needs vigilantes.
Setting: Gotham City
Mid-Credits Scene: Following his identity being revealed and being imprisoned, Bruce sits in his cell as the tv showcases news coverage of another alien invasion occurring in Metropolis. He stares with fear as he watches Parademons swarm the city, followed closely behind by Darkseid himself, finally come to Earth.
Post-Credits Scene: Following the supposed end of the Batman, a hooded figure on a rooftop swears an oath to a mysterious force. As he stands up, he unsheathes his sword and reveals himself as Azrael, prepared to carry on the Batman’s legacy at any cost.
-Justice League Apokalips Part 1: War (Film)
Protagonists: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the Flash, Green Lanterns (Hal Jordan and John Stewart), Cyborg, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Red Tornado, Shazam, Steel, Superboy, Teen Titans, Justice Society, Lex Luthor Antagonists: Darkseid, Desaad, Kalibak, Granny Goodness, Grail, Apokalips Army Side Characters: Various (too many to list lol) Cameo Characters: Orion
Plot: The apocalypse has come. After years of planning and waiting, Darkseid has finally arrived on Earth, his invasion active and his plan clear: find the Mother Boxes and destroy all life in the universe, starting with Earth. The only obstacle standing between him and the Anti-Life Equation is the Justice League, who must unite one more time to defend Earth from the ultimate evil. But with a threat as powerful as Darkseid, do they have any hope of saving the world?
Settings: Metropolis, Apokalips, other cities
Mid-Credits Scene: Following his victory and upcoming conquering of the universe, starting with Earth, Darkseid’s actions are monitored by a man flying his way through space. He grows dreadful at the god’s actions, and activates an alert signaling the “New Gods” to unite.
-Suicide Squad: Operation Apokalips (Film)
Protagonists: Amanda Waller, Deadshot, Harley Quinn, Captain Boomerang, King Shark, Killer Frost, Rick Flag, the Thinker, Parasite Antagonists: Granny Goodness, Female Furies, Grail Side Characters: Few to none Cameo Characters: Batman, Flash
Plot: Darkseid has won, and now the Earth is doomed to die to the forces of Apokalips. However, there is one person left on Earth with a plan to save it: Amanda Waller. Recruiting her team of convicts, she plans a mission to cripple Darkseid’s main military output and steal back an invention of great importance: the Cosmic Treadmill. It’s a Suicide mission like no other, and this time, nobody is certain to be making it out alive.
Settings: Metropolis, STAR Labs
Mid-Credits Scene: Following the shaky mission, Waller meets with Batman and the Flash, presenting the treadmill. Batman thanks her for her mission, saying he has a plan to bring the disappeared Justice League back and save the world.
-The New Gods (Film)
Protagonists: Orion, Big Barda, Mr. Miracle, Bekka, Lightray Antagonist: Steppenwolfe, Black Racer Side Characters: High Father, Drax Cameo Characters: Darkseid, Batman, Flash
Plot: Taking place centuries before the events of “Justice League: War”, the New Gods are a powerful race of galactic beings who rule the universe in place of the Old Gods of mythology. However, when a misguided tyrant god named Steppenwolfe goes on a mad quest for his dark master, the New Gods must search for the ancient Mother Boxes and retrieve them before the darkness can find them and kill the universe.
Settings: New Genesis, other planets
Mid-Credits Scene: In the present, the remains of the Justice League and Argus formulate a plan to take the world back from Apokalips. However, they are interrupted mid-plan, as the New Gods arrive, saying they wish to help... and kill Darkseid.
-Justice League Apokalips Part 2: Crisis (Film)
Protagonists: Protagonists: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the Flash, Green Lanterns (Hal Jordan and John Stewart), Cyborg, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Red Tornado, Shazam, Steel, Superboy, Teen Titans, Justice Society, Lex Luthor, New Gods, Suicide Squad Antagonists: Darkseid, Desaad, Kalibak, Apokalips army, Black Racer Side Characters: Too many to count lol Cameo Characters: None
Plot: At last, the conclusion to the first chapter of the DCU has arrived. With the Earth in ruins and the core Justice League lost in time, all hope seems lost. That is, until Batman and the Flash come up with a plan to save the world. With the Cosmic Treadmill, they seek to travel throughout time to recover their teammates of the Justice League, and put a stop to Darkseid once and for all. Will they succeed, or will Apokalips rule the universe in the end?
Settings: Metropolis, various locations throughout time
submitted by KingCreeperSeth to DCcomics [link] [comments]


2024.05.19 22:30 KingCreeperSeth My DCU (Chapter 1: Gods on Earth - Act 3)

Hello everyone! Sorry for the long wait, between varying interests and having to make this entire act from scratch rather than just giving it an update, this portion of my DCU definitely did take longer to make than most! But I’m here, I’m ready, let’s get right into it!
As usual, here is the lineup for this concluding act to my first chapter of the DCU:
  1. The Flashpoint Paradox (Film);
  2. Hawk man and Hawkgirl (Film);
  3. The Birds of Prey (Film);
  4. Cyborg Season 2 (TV Show);
  5. The Justice Society (Film);
  6. Aquaman: The Last King (Film);
  7. Superman: Warworld (Film);
  8. Teen Titans: Judas (Film);
  9. The Brave and the Bold 2 (Film);
  10. The Supers (TV Show);
  11. Wonder Woman: Odyssey (Film);
  12. Batgirl Season 2 (TV Show);
  13. Batman: The Red Hood (Film);
  14. Justice League Apokalips Part 1: War (Film);
  15. Suicide Squad: Operation Apokalips (Film);
  16. The New Gods (Film);
  17. Justice League Apokalips Part 2: Crisis (Film)
And without further ado, here we go:
-The Flashpoint Paradox (Film)
Protagonists: The Flash, Batman (Thomas Wayne) Antagonists: Reverse Flash, Flashpoint Aquaman, Flashpoint Wonder Woman Side Characters: Cyborg, Flashpoint Superman, Nora and Henry Allen, Lois Lane, Rebellion, Atlantians, Amazonians Cameo Characters: Superman, Batman, Jason Todd
Plot: Barry Allen had done the unthinkable. He ran fast enough to break through the time barrier and save his mother’s life. But would the butterfly effect be worth it? Nora Allen was alive, but the world Barry knew before was dead, replaced with one unfamiliar to him. Bruce Wayne is dead, Metropolis was almost completely destroyed, and on top of all of that, the friends he had once known were were fighting a war that could spell doom for the entire world. Can Barry keep this new universe together? Or will a haunting shadow remind him why you should never change the past?
Setting: Central City, Metropolis
Mid-Credits Scene: On a faraway planet, a stolen relic called the Regeneration Matrix is regenerating a figure back to full health from their coffin. When the process is complete, the figure awakens and sits up in his coffin. He looks around, revealed to be Superman back from the dead, asking where he is. A nearby medical robot gives him a simple answer, “Warworld.”
Post-Credits Scene: Focus is put onto the Wayne Family graveyard, panning over numerous graves. Eventually, the focus is directed to the grave of Jason Todd, though the grave is dug up and the coffin underneath is empty. Nearby, a figure is limping through the cemetery, revealed to be Jason Todd, who is leaving his grave and heading towards Gotham.
-Hawkman and Hawkgirl (Film)
Protagonists: Hawkman, Hawkgirl Antagonist: Hath-Set Side Characters: (Idk I’m not very up to date on their lore lol) Cameo Character: Doctor Fate
Plot: Carter Hall and Shiera Sanders are two ordinary individuals with no connection whatsoever. That is, until an enemy from the ancient past makes his return to remind them of how they are bound. The two hawk-people must now work together to break a dark cycle they are forever caught in, and along the way, remember who they were meant to be in lives past.
Settings: New York, briefly Egypt
Mid-Credits Scene: Having survived the cycle for the first time, Carter and Shiera enjoy their momentary peace at home. However, a man who calls himself Doctor Fate appears before them and requests their help. He tells them a threat of considerable proportions is on its way to Earth, and he needs their assistance to defeat it. They ask for time to think it over, to which Doctor Fate gives them, but warns them that time is running short.
-The Birds of Prey (Film)
Protagonists: Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Black Canary, Huntress, Katana Antagonists: Joker’s Daughter, Sons of Joker, the Joker Side Characters: Francine Charles, Commissioner Gordon, Renée Montoya, other characters’ respective side characters Cameo Characters: Oliver Queen, Batman, Jason Todd
Plot: Batgirl has spent months getting her team into line, but they are finally ready. Black Canary, Huntress, and a new girl calling herself Katana, under Barbara’s leadership become a new, fierce superhero team called the Birds of Prey. Their first mission? Bring down the Sons of Joker, and learn their connection to the Clown Prince of Crime himself. But will the new team be able to work together? Or will Barbara crumble, and bring her team with her?
Setting: Gotham City
Mid-Credits Scene: Within her hospital room following being shot and paralyzed by the Joker, Barbara is visited by a man while she sleeps. This man is revealed to be Jason Todd, who apologizes for Barbara’s fate, blaming Batman for another failure, though he guarantees this one will be his last.
-Cyborg Season 2 (TV Show)
Protagonist: Cyborg Antagonists: The Brain, Monsieur Mallah Side Characters: Silas Stone, Sarah Charles, Beast Boy Cameo Characters: T. O. Morrow, The Grid
Overall Plot: After much grief between his friends and coworkers Superman and Nightwing, Cyborg finds himself disconnected from his friends and begins taking justice across the world into his own hands. But when he faces a threat that he finds himself unable to defeat alone, he learns to open himself up to those around him, and share his pain so that others may help to fix it.
Episode One Plot: Cyborg seeks to solve the problems of people around him his own way, which leads him into the heart of a rogue H.I.V.E. operation calling themselves B.R.A.I.N.
Episode Two Plot: Cyborg launches his own investigation into BRAIN, but finds Beast Boy as an interference when he tries helping his friend out.
Episode Three Plot: Trapped on an unknown island, Cyborg must rely on the help from his friend Beast Boy when his systems shut down and they seek an escape.
Episode Four Plot: BRAIN reveals itself to be ruled by a robotic organism called the Brain, which reveals its plans for world domination to Cyborg.
Episode Five Plot: Attempting a search for the Brain’s supposed doomsday device, Cyborg uncovers a large conspiracy tying the Brain back to the invader Brainiac.
Episode Six Plot: In the season finale, Cyborg learns to let his friends in as he stops the Brain from continuing Brainiac’s work and controlling the world.
Setting: Central City, various other places
Mid-Credits Scene: After defeating the Brain, Cyborg leaves his computer running on an AI program he created called “The Grid.” When he leaves, a string of green code merges itself with the blue code running on the screen, turning a large portion of it green in the shape of a skull.
-The Justice Society (Film)
Protagonists: Doctor Fate, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, the Flash (Jay Garrick), Green Lantern (Alan Scott), Mister Terrific, Wildcat, Stargirl Antagonist: Despero Side Characters: Respective side characters (I’m lazy, sorry lol) Cameo Characters: Adam Strange, Vandal Savage
Plot: For the past few years, Doctor Fate has sensed a presence of tremendous power threatening to invade the earth, and now that presence has finally arrived. Despero, a conqueror from the stars with unlimited power, has arrived on earth, yet the Justice League is spread too thin and too far to help against the incoming threat. Fate realizes that he will have to assemble a new team to defeat Despero and stop his invasion, a team he has spent the better part of the past few months gathering.
Settings: Various cities
Mid-Credits Scene: Following their victory and return home, the Justice Society are confronted by a mysterious man called Adam Strange, who teleported himself to them to warn of a new incoming threat, and claiming that they have come for Carter and Shiera.
Post-Credits Scene: Far away, mysterious soldiers locate a tomb and open a single coffin resting inside. Out from the coffin springs a large man, who attacks the soldiers before asking what year it is, and who they are. They answer that it is the 21st century, and they are here to welcome “the Savage,” to the new age, to which the man laughs maniacally.
-Aquaman: The Last King (Film)
Protagonists: Aquaman, Aqualad (Jackson Hyde) Antagonists: Black Manta, Starro Side Characters: Mera, Orm, Garth, Arthur Jr., Atlanteans Cameo Characters: Jesse Hyde
Plot: At last, Black Manta’s final revenge has come. For years, he has been plotting, researching a way to exact his vengeance on Aquaman following so many failures. At last, he has found it, enlisting the help of an ancient beast from the stars named Starro to help him destroy Atlantis and claim the title of its dark king. But when both Aquaman and Manta find that the new conqueror seeks control and destruction of everything they know, new alliances must be forged to bring peace to Atlantis once and for all.
Setting: Atlantis
Mid-Credits Scene: Following his sacrifice to defeat Starro, David finds himself in an ocean-like afterlife, where he meets his father Jesse for the first time in years. David apologizes for his actions, and his grief, to which Jesse forgives him, and the two embrace once more.
-Superman: Warworld (Film)
Protagonist: Superman Antagonists: Mongul, Ultra Humanite, Mongul’s Champions (The Teacher, the Mother, the Orphan, the Darling, and the Unmade) Side Characters: Kryl-Ux, Otho-Ra, Osul-Ra, Thao-La Cameo Characters: The Eradicator, Cyborg Superman, Lois Lane
Plot: After being killed by Doomsday during the Brainiac Invasion, Superman has found himself brought back to life via a lost Kryptonian Regeneration Matrix located on the distant planet Warworld. Once he is awakened, Superman is quickly introduced to the harsh, gladiator-like lifestyle of the planet, run by its cruel ruler: Mongul. Superman must now put his strength and will to the test as he battles and chooses his way through a cosmic adventure like no other, all in an attempt to return home and rescue the people of the desolate planet.
Setting: Warworld
Mid-Credits Scene: On Earth, in the Fortress of Solitude, a similar Regeneration Matrix has finished the body that was meant to be Superman’s, but a new force has taken it over. The Eradicator declares himself Superman, and seeks to prove itself as the ultimate Man of Steel.
Post-Credits Scene: Lois Lane is walking out of a shop with a coffee in hand, when she notices a red and blue figure flying through the sky. Her, and many civilians, rush to the city square to see the returned Man of Steel, only for him to turn his face and reveal a half-robotic one underneath.
-Teen Titans: Judas (Film)
Protagonists: Red X, Starfire, Cyborg, Raven, Beast Boy, Kid Flash, Donna Troy Antagonists: H.I.V.E. (Namely Adeline Kane and Damien Darhk), Deathstroke, Terra Side Characters: None Cameo Characters: Blue Beetle, Aqualad, Bumblebee, Arsenal, Rose Wilson
Plot: Following the supposed death of Nightwing, the Titans have mostly disbanded to follow their own paths. But when the villainous mercenary Deathstroke returns to the scene to exact revenge for his son’s death, the young heroes must unify once again to put an end to H.I.V.E., before they are all killed. But with a traitor in their team, and a thief who feels all to similar to the team’s dearly departed leader, the Titans find themselves lost in a conspiracy that leaves them unsure of who to trust and who not to.
Setting: San Francisco
Mid-Credits Scene: With Grayson alive and returned to his rightful position as team leader, Starfire asks him if things will truly be back to normal. Nightwing tells her no, that the events of the last few days have opened his eyes to not only be more careful, but also to increase his efforts to better train the next generation of superheroes. He shows her the new rebuilt tower, labeled Titans Academy, with a good few new recruits already waiting outside.
Post-Credits Scene: After being sent to prison, Slade is confronted by his daughter Rose, who has come to visit him. She shames him for his act of violence against the children, claiming that he has brought dishonor to their family. He retorts, saying that he did it out of love and mourning for Grant, and that she should be ashamed for not doing anything. The two leave with a disagreement and hatred for one another, Rose pulling out a tracker to the Titans Academy, as well as a mask she intends to wear for the trip.
-The Brave and the Bold 2 (Film)
Protagonists: Green Arrow, Black Canary, Arsenal Antagonist: Cheshire Side Characters: Respective side characters (who I still don’t know cuz I don’t read their comics lol) Cameo Characters: Batman, Ra’s Al Ghul, Shado
Plot: Oliver Queen and Dinah Lance, now betrothed to one another, have their life set. Marriage, money, and the skills to defend themselves and their city against any who may dare seek to soil it. But as new faces good and bad come into play, the super power-couple must be more strategic with their approach to crime-fighting if they want to preserve the good of their city, before all hell can break loose.
Setting: Star City
Mid-Credits Scene: Following news coverage of Green Arrow and Black Canary’s heroics against Cheshire, a woman far across the world catches wind of the report and prepares her weapons. She gears up, leaving her hideout as Shado now makes her way to Star City.
Post-Credits Scene: Observing the chaos and failure of his wild-card protégé Cheshire, Ra’s Al Ghul has a confrontation with Batman, where the Caped Crusader warns Ra’s to put an end to is theatrics in Star City. Ra’s tells Batman he has no more interest in Star City, having failed twice, but he warns Batman to keep out of his affairs, or else Gotham may be the next place the League of Assassins visits.
-The Supers (TV Show)
Protagonists: Supergirl, Steel, Lois Lane, Superboy Antagonists: Cyborg Superman, the Eradicator, Livewire, Parasite, Intergang Side Characters: Jimmy Olsen, Martha Kent, Lex Luthor, Perry White, Kat Grant, Steve Lombard Cameo Characters: Superman, Hal Jordan
Overall Plot: Superman is dead, and Metropolis is in the hands of new saviors now. Since the Man of Steel was killed by Doomsday, there have been those like Steel and Superboy who have risen up to take up the mantle the Kryptonian left behind. But others, like the Eradicator and the new “Cyborg Superman,” have taken justice in a more violent direction. But is the Man of Steel really dead? And how do the new imposters tie into his return? As Lois and Supergirl team up with new heroes to investigate, they are led down a rabbit hole of resurrections and revenge, one that will leave them with dark answers they may not be ready for.
Episode One Plot: A funeral is held for Superman following his death, but in mourning, the Man of Steel seems to have returned, losing his cape and donning new Golden goggles.
Episode Two Plot: As Steel makes his presence known, he comes into conflict with the the new Superman when debating the fate of a villainess on the run. Meanwhile, Lois begins investigating the appearance of the new Superman, but her investigation is cut short by the appearance of a brand new Cyborg Superman, claiming to be the real hero returned.
Episode Three Plot: Superboy, a clone on the run, makes a name for himself in Metropolis as a younger, cockier hero missing the values of the original Superman. Meanwhile, Lois takes the time to talk with Supergirl, sharing with her the suspicions she has on the new Supermen.
Episode Four Plot: Lex Luthor has prepared a gala to announce his new plans for Super-Police to defend the city following Superman’s death. But when the new Supermen finally clash in a confrontation to debate letting Luthor live and killing him for his crimes, the public finally get a chance to decide who their saviors are.
Episode Five Plot: Declared the true savior of Metropolis, Cyborg Superman is put to the test when he faces a new threat: the Parasite. Meanwhile, Lois and Supergirl enlist the help of Steel to investigate the truth of the Cyborg Superman.
Episode Six Plot: In one last act to prove himself, the Eradicator attacks Cyborg Superman, dying in the battle. However, Cyborg Superman’s victory is short-lived, as Lois, Supergirl, and Steel out the truth behind him and the deceased scientist Hank Henshaw.
Episode Seven Plot: Furious with his reveal, Cyborg Superman goes ballistic, assaulting the military and claiming the means to destroy half of the country in a nuclear attack.
Episode Eight Plot: All bets are off in the season finale as Lois, Supergirl, Steel, and Superboy race to stop Cyborg Superman’s plot for nuclear destruction. A race that only becomes more definite as the real Man of Steel finally returns from the dead to save the world.
Settings: Metropolis, Smallville
Mid-Credits Scene: Following the mostly failed nuclear attack, Hal Jordan returns to Earth to find Coast City in ruin, the only city nuked in the attack. He grows angry and mournful, showing the first sign of losing himself to darkness.
-Wonder Woman: Odyssey (Film)
Protagonist: Wonder Woman Antagonists: Circe, Cheetah, Hades, various mythological monsters, Furies Side Characters: Hippolyta, Artemis Cameo Characters: Zeus, various other gods, Steve Trevor
Plot: After decades of living among man and acting as their hero, the consequences of Diana’s actions have finally caught up with her. The sorceress Circe has been freed, and has destroyed Diana’s home of Themyscira. She has now partnered with the Cheetah as her disciple, seeking to delve into the Underworld to free Hades from the deepest depths of Tartarus. Diana must now travel through the rings of Hell and battle through a gauntlet of beasts and enemies to stop their plot and prove herself worthy of being called Wonder Woman.
Settings: Themyscira, the Underworld
Mid-Credits Scene: Following the near-escape of Hades, with involvement from Cheetah, the Old Gods of Greece meet to determine how they handle this matter moving forward. Ultimately, Zeus decides that the mortals of man’s world have become too dangerous, and declares war on the mortal realm and those who may defend it.
Post-Credits Scene: Following her redemption in the Underworld, Cheetah returns to the old wrecked base she had been frozen inside of during World War II. She explores deep inside the frozen lair, eventually coming across a large chunk of ice that had gone undiscovered until now. And within lies Steve Trevor, perfectly preserved for over 80 years.
-Batgirl Season 2 (TV Show)
Protagonist: Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) Antagonists: David Cain, the League of Assassins Side Characters: Oracle (Barbara Gordon), Batman, Commissioner Gordon, Alfred, Robin Cameo Characters: Red Hood
Overall Plot: Barbara Gordon has been shot and paralyzed, leaving Gotham without a Batgirl... temporarily. When the League of Assassins makes good on their threat and comes to Gotham, a young assassin by the name of Cassandra Cain tries to prove herself as the greatest assassin the League has ever known. But when she fails and finds herself deserted by the League and her own father, Barbara sees a light in her and shows her she has the power to be a great hero instead.
Episode One Plot: The League of Assassins make their way into Gotham as a young Cassandra Cain tries but fails to break into Oracle’s clocktower.
Episode Two Plot: Feeling shame for her failure, Cassandra is lifted up by Barbara, who convinces her that she is capable of being a hero instead.
Episode Three Plot: Cassandra begins her first night of patrol in Gotham as the new Batgirl, but meets resistance when Batman denies the presence of a new Batgirl.
Episode Four Plot: Determined to prove herself, Cassandra follows Batman on a mission to stop a potential assassination, during which the two open up to one another.
Episode Five Plot: Cassandra gets her first taste of a sidekick team-up as she and Robin work together to prevent a terrorist attack from the League of Assassins.
Episode Six Plot: Stakes are high in the season finale, as Cassandra re-confronts her father and seeks to stop the League’s plans for destroying Gotham, by any means necessary.
Setting: Gotham City
Mid-Credits Scene: Feeling disdain for the destruction caused by the League of Assassins, Jason decides it is time to enact his plan and take Gotham for himself, no matter the costs.
-Batman: The Red Hood (Film)
Protagonists: Batman, Robin (Tim Drake), Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) Antagonists: Red Hood, Bane, Joker Side Characters: Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, Oracle, Nightwing, Catwoman, Lucius Fox, Harvey Bullock, Renée Montoya, Mayor Krol Cameo Characters: Darkseid, Azrael
Plot: Bane has arrived, and with him comes the Caped Crusader’s darkest days. Bane has seized control of the city and vows to both break the Batman and ruin everything he holds dear. However, he finds rivalry in the criminal underworld, as a new figure called the Red Hood emerges to take Gotham back his way. Batman is now caught in the crosshairs of a dark beast of destruction and a vengeful ghost from the past battling for control of the city, and with the Dark Knight losing his grip more and more each day, people wonder if the city really needs vigilantes.
Setting: Gotham City
Mid-Credits Scene: Following his identity being revealed and being imprisoned, Bruce sits in his cell as the tv showcases news coverage of another alien invasion occurring in Metropolis. He stares with fear as he watches Parademons swarm the city, followed closely behind by Darkseid himself, finally come to Earth.
Post-Credits Scene: Following the supposed end of the Batman, a hooded figure on a rooftop swears an oath to a mysterious force. As he stands up, he unsheathes his sword and reveals himself as Azrael, prepared to carry on the Batman’s legacy at any cost.
-Justice League Apokalips Part 1: War (Film)
Protagonists: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the Flash, Green Lanterns (Hal Jordan and John Stewart), Cyborg, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Red Tornado, Shazam, Steel, Superboy, Teen Titans, Justice Society, Lex Luthor Antagonists: Darkseid, Desaad, Kalibak, Granny Goodness, Grail, Apokalips Army Side Characters: Various (too many to list lol) Cameo Characters: Orion
Plot: The apocalypse has come. After years of planning and waiting, Darkseid has finally arrived on Earth, his invasion active and his plan clear: find the Mother Boxes and destroy all life in the universe, starting with Earth. The only obstacle standing between him and the Anti-Life Equation is the Justice League, who must unite one more time to defend Earth from the ultimate evil. But with a threat as powerful as Darkseid, do they have any hope of saving the world?
Settings: Metropolis, Apokalips, other cities
Mid-Credits Scene: Following his victory and upcoming conquering of the universe, starting with Earth, Darkseid’s actions are monitored by a man flying his way through space. He grows dreadful at the god’s actions, and activates an alert signaling the “New Gods” to unite.
-Suicide Squad: Operation Apokalips (Film)
Protagonists: Amanda Waller, Deadshot, Harley Quinn, Captain Boomerang, King Shark, Killer Frost, Rick Flag, the Thinker, Parasite Antagonists: Granny Goodness, Female Furies, Grail Side Characters: Few to none Cameo Characters: Batman, Flash
Plot: Darkseid has won, and now the Earth is doomed to die to the forces of Apokalips. However, there is one person left on Earth with a plan to save it: Amanda Waller. Recruiting her team of convicts, she plans a mission to cripple Darkseid’s main military output and steal back an invention of great importance: the Cosmic Treadmill. It’s a Suicide mission like no other, and this time, nobody is certain to be making it out alive.
Settings: Metropolis, STAR Labs
Mid-Credits Scene: Following the shaky mission, Waller meets with Batman and the Flash, presenting the treadmill. Batman thanks her for her mission, saying he has a plan to bring the disappeared Justice League back and save the world.
-The New Gods (Film)
Protagonists: Orion, Big Barda, Mr. Miracle, Bekka, Lightray Antagonist: Steppenwolfe, Black Racer Side Characters: High Father, Drax Cameo Characters: Darkseid, Batman, Flash
Plot: Taking place centuries before the events of “Justice League: War”, the New Gods are a powerful race of galactic beings who rule the universe in place of the Old Gods of mythology. However, when a misguided tyrant god named Steppenwolfe goes on a mad quest for his dark master, the New Gods must search for the ancient Mother Boxes and retrieve them before the darkness can find them and kill the universe.
Settings: New Genesis, other planets
Mid-Credits Scene: In the present, the remains of the Justice League and Argus formulate a plan to take the world back from Apokalips. However, they are interrupted mid-plan, as the New Gods arrive, saying they wish to help... and kill Darkseid.
-Justice League Apokalips Part 2: Crisis (Film)
Protagonists: Protagonists: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the Flash, Green Lanterns (Hal Jordan and John Stewart), Cyborg, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Red Tornado, Shazam, Steel, Superboy, Teen Titans, Justice Society, Lex Luthor, New Gods, Suicide Squad Antagonists: Darkseid, Desaad, Kalibak, Apokalips army, Black Racer Side Characters: Too many to count lol Cameo Characters: None
Plot: At last, the conclusion to the first chapter of the DCU has arrived. With the Earth in ruins and the core Justice League lost in time, all hope seems lost. That is, until Batman and the Flash come up with a plan to save the world. With the Cosmic Treadmill, they seek to travel throughout time to recover their teammates of the Justice League, and put a stop to Darkseid once and for all. Will they succeed, or will Apokalips rule the universe in the end?
Settings: Metropolis, various locations throughout time
submitted by KingCreeperSeth to fixingmovies [link] [comments]


2024.05.19 22:28 KingCreeperSeth My DCU (Chapter 1: Gods on Earth - Act 3)

Hello everyone! Sorry for the long wait, between varying interests and having to make this entire act from scratch rather than just giving it an update, this portion of my DCU definitely did take longer to make than most! But I’m here, I’m ready, let’s get right into it!
As usual, here is the lineup for this concluding act to my first chapter of the DCU:
  1. The Flashpoint Paradox (Film);
  2. Hawk man and Hawkgirl (Film);
  3. The Birds of Prey (Film);
  4. Cyborg Season 2 (TV Show);
  5. The Justice Society (Film);
  6. Aquaman: The Last King (Film);
  7. Superman: Warworld (Film);
  8. Teen Titans: Judas (Film);
  9. The Brave and the Bold 2 (Film);
  10. The Supers (TV Show);
  11. Wonder Woman: Odyssey (Film);
  12. Batgirl Season 2 (TV Show);
  13. Batman: The Red Hood (Film);
  14. Justice League Apokalips Part 1: War (Film);
  15. Suicide Squad: Operation Apokalips (Film);
  16. The New Gods (Film);
  17. Justice League Apokalips Part 2: Crisis (Film)
And without further ado, here we go:
-The Flashpoint Paradox (Film)
Protagonists: The Flash, Batman (Thomas Wayne) Antagonists: Reverse Flash, Flashpoint Aquaman, Flashpoint Wonder Woman Side Characters: Cyborg, Flashpoint Superman, Nora and Henry Allen, Lois Lane, Rebellion, Atlantians, Amazonians Cameo Characters: Superman, Batman, Jason Todd
Plot: Barry Allen had done the unthinkable. He ran fast enough to break through the time barrier and save his mother’s life. But would the butterfly effect be worth it? Nora Allen was alive, but the world Barry knew before was dead, replaced with one unfamiliar to him. Bruce Wayne is dead, Metropolis was almost completely destroyed, and on top of all of that, the friends he had once known were were fighting a war that could spell doom for the entire world. Can Barry keep this new universe together? Or will a haunting shadow remind him why you should never change the past?
Setting: Central City, Metropolis
Mid-Credits Scene: On a faraway planet, a stolen relic called the Regeneration Matrix is regenerating a figure back to full health from their coffin. When the process is complete, the figure awakens and sits up in his coffin. He looks around, revealed to be Superman back from the dead, asking where he is. A nearby medical robot gives him a simple answer, “Warworld.”
Post-Credits Scene: Focus is put onto the Wayne Family graveyard, panning over numerous graves. Eventually, the focus is directed to the grave of Jason Todd, though the grave is dug up and the coffin underneath is empty. Nearby, a figure is limping through the cemetery, revealed to be Jason Todd, who is leaving his grave and heading towards Gotham.
-Hawkman and Hawkgirl (Film)
Protagonists: Hawkman, Hawkgirl Antagonist: Hath-Set Side Characters: (Idk I’m not very up to date on their lore lol) Cameo Character: Doctor Fate
Plot: Carter Hall and Shiera Sanders are two ordinary individuals with no connection whatsoever. That is, until an enemy from the ancient past makes his return to remind them of how they are bound. The two hawk-people must now work together to break a dark cycle they are forever caught in, and along the way, remember who they were meant to be in lives past.
Settings: New York, briefly Egypt
Mid-Credits Scene: Having survived the cycle for the first time, Carter and Shiera enjoy their momentary peace at home. However, a man who calls himself Doctor Fate appears before them and requests their help. He tells them a threat of considerable proportions is on its way to Earth, and he needs their assistance to defeat it. They ask for time to think it over, to which Doctor Fate gives them, but warns them that time is running short.
-The Birds of Prey (Film)
Protagonists: Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Black Canary, Huntress, Katana Antagonists: Joker’s Daughter, Sons of Joker, the Joker Side Characters: Francine Charles, Commissioner Gordon, Renée Montoya, other characters’ respective side characters Cameo Characters: Oliver Queen, Batman, Jason Todd
Plot: Batgirl has spent months getting her team into line, but they are finally ready. Black Canary, Huntress, and a new girl calling herself Katana, under Barbara’s leadership become a new, fierce superhero team called the Birds of Prey. Their first mission? Bring down the Sons of Joker, and learn their connection to the Clown Prince of Crime himself. But will the new team be able to work together? Or will Barbara crumble, and bring her team with her?
Setting: Gotham City
Mid-Credits Scene: Within her hospital room following being shot and paralyzed by the Joker, Barbara is visited by a man while she sleeps. This man is revealed to be Jason Todd, who apologizes for Barbara’s fate, blaming Batman for another failure, though he guarantees this one will be his last.
-Cyborg Season 2 (TV Show)
Protagonist: Cyborg Antagonists: The Brain, Monsieur Mallah Side Characters: Silas Stone, Sarah Charles, Beast Boy Cameo Characters: T. O. Morrow, The Grid
Overall Plot: After much grief between his friends and coworkers Superman and Nightwing, Cyborg finds himself disconnected from his friends and begins taking justice across the world into his own hands. But when he faces a threat that he finds himself unable to defeat alone, he learns to open himself up to those around him, and share his pain so that others may help to fix it.
Episode One Plot: Cyborg seeks to solve the problems of people around him his own way, which leads him into the heart of a rogue H.I.V.E. operation calling themselves B.R.A.I.N.
Episode Two Plot: Cyborg launches his own investigation into BRAIN, but finds Beast Boy as an interference when he tries helping his friend out.
Episode Three Plot: Trapped on an unknown island, Cyborg must rely on the help from his friend Beast Boy when his systems shut down and they seek an escape.
Episode Four Plot: BRAIN reveals itself to be ruled by a robotic organism called the Brain, which reveals its plans for world domination to Cyborg.
Episode Five Plot: Attempting a search for the Brain’s supposed doomsday device, Cyborg uncovers a large conspiracy tying the Brain back to the invader Brainiac.
Episode Six Plot: In the season finale, Cyborg learns to let his friends in as he stops the Brain from continuing Brainiac’s work and controlling the world.
Setting: Central City, various other places
Mid-Credits Scene: After defeating the Brain, Cyborg leaves his computer running on an AI program he created called “The Grid.” When he leaves, a string of green code merges itself with the blue code running on the screen, turning a large portion of it green in the shape of a skull.
-The Justice Society (Film)
Protagonists: Doctor Fate, Hawkman, Hawkgirl, the Flash (Jay Garrick), Green Lantern (Alan Scott), Mister Terrific, Wildcat, Stargirl Antagonist: Despero Side Characters: Respective side characters (I’m lazy, sorry lol) Cameo Characters: Adam Strange, Vandal Savage
Plot: For the past few years, Doctor Fate has sensed a presence of tremendous power threatening to invade the earth, and now that presence has finally arrived. Despero, a conqueror from the stars with unlimited power, has arrived on earth, yet the Justice League is spread too thin and too far to help against the incoming threat. Fate realizes that he will have to assemble a new team to defeat Despero and stop his invasion, a team he has spent the better part of the past few months gathering.
Settings: Various cities
Mid-Credits Scene: Following their victory and return home, the Justice Society are confronted by a mysterious man called Adam Strange, who teleported himself to them to warn of a new incoming threat, and claiming that they have come for Carter and Shiera.
Post-Credits Scene: Far away, mysterious soldiers locate a tomb and open a single coffin resting inside. Out from the coffin springs a large man, who attacks the soldiers before asking what year it is, and who they are. They answer that it is the 21st century, and they are here to welcome “the Savage,” to the new age, to which the man laughs maniacally.
-Aquaman: The Last King (Film)
Protagonists: Aquaman, Aqualad (Jackson Hyde) Antagonists: Black Manta, Starro Side Characters: Mera, Orm, Garth, Arthur Jr., Atlanteans Cameo Characters: Jesse Hyde
Plot: At last, Black Manta’s final revenge has come. For years, he has been plotting, researching a way to exact his vengeance on Aquaman following so many failures. At last, he has found it, enlisting the help of an ancient beast from the stars named Starro to help him destroy Atlantis and claim the title of its dark king. But when both Aquaman and Manta find that the new conqueror seeks control and destruction of everything they know, new alliances must be forged to bring peace to Atlantis once and for all.
Setting: Atlantis
Mid-Credits Scene: Following his sacrifice to defeat Starro, David finds himself in an ocean-like afterlife, where he meets his father Jesse for the first time in years. David apologizes for his actions, and his grief, to which Jesse forgives him, and the two embrace once more.
-Superman: Warworld (Film)
Protagonist: Superman Antagonists: Mongul, Ultra Humanite, Mongul’s Champions (The Teacher, the Mother, the Orphan, the Darling, and the Unmade) Side Characters: Kryl-Ux, Otho-Ra, Osul-Ra, Thao-La Cameo Characters: The Eradicator, Cyborg Superman, Lois Lane
Plot: After being killed by Doomsday during the Brainiac Invasion, Superman has found himself brought back to life via a lost Kryptonian Regeneration Matrix located on the distant planet Warworld. Once he is awakened, Superman is quickly introduced to the harsh, gladiator-like lifestyle of the planet, run by its cruel ruler: Mongul. Superman must now put his strength and will to the test as he battles and chooses his way through a cosmic adventure like no other, all in an attempt to return home and rescue the people of the desolate planet.
Setting: Warworld
Mid-Credits Scene: On Earth, in the Fortress of Solitude, a similar Regeneration Matrix has finished the body that was meant to be Superman’s, but a new force has taken it over. The Eradicator declares himself Superman, and seeks to prove itself as the ultimate Man of Steel.
Post-Credits Scene: Lois Lane is walking out of a shop with a coffee in hand, when she notices a red and blue figure flying through the sky. Her, and many civilians, rush to the city square to see the returned Man of Steel, only for him to turn his face and reveal a half-robotic one underneath.
-Teen Titans: Judas (Film)
Protagonists: Red X, Starfire, Cyborg, Raven, Beast Boy, Kid Flash, Donna Troy Antagonists: H.I.V.E. (Namely Adeline Kane and Damien Darhk), Deathstroke, Terra Side Characters: None Cameo Characters: Blue Beetle, Aqualad, Bumblebee, Arsenal, Rose Wilson
Plot: Following the supposed death of Nightwing, the Titans have mostly disbanded to follow their own paths. But when the villainous mercenary Deathstroke returns to the scene to exact revenge for his son’s death, the young heroes must unify once again to put an end to H.I.V.E., before they are all killed. But with a traitor in their team, and a thief who feels all to similar to the team’s dearly departed leader, the Titans find themselves lost in a conspiracy that leaves them unsure of who to trust and who not to.
Setting: San Francisco
Mid-Credits Scene: With Grayson alive and returned to his rightful position as team leader, Starfire asks him if things will truly be back to normal. Nightwing tells her no, that the events of the last few days have opened his eyes to not only be more careful, but also to increase his efforts to better train the next generation of superheroes. He shows her the new rebuilt tower, labeled Titans Academy, with a good few new recruits already waiting outside.
Post-Credits Scene: After being sent to prison, Slade is confronted by his daughter Rose, who has come to visit him. She shames him for his act of violence against the children, claiming that he has brought dishonor to their family. He retorts, saying that he did it out of love and mourning for Grant, and that she should be ashamed for not doing anything. The two leave with a disagreement and hatred for one another, Rose pulling out a tracker to the Titans Academy, as well as a mask she intends to wear for the trip.
-The Brave and the Bold 2 (Film)
Protagonists: Green Arrow, Black Canary, Arsenal Antagonist: Cheshire Side Characters: Respective side characters (who I still don’t know cuz I don’t read their comics lol) Cameo Characters: Batman, Ra’s Al Ghul, Shado
Plot: Oliver Queen and Dinah Lance, now betrothed to one another, have their life set. Marriage, money, and the skills to defend themselves and their city against any who may dare seek to soil it. But as new faces good and bad come into play, the super power-couple must be more strategic with their approach to crime-fighting if they want to preserve the good of their city, before all hell can break loose.
Setting: Star City
Mid-Credits Scene: Following news coverage of Green Arrow and Black Canary’s heroics against Cheshire, a woman far across the world catches wind of the report and prepares her weapons. She gears up, leaving her hideout as Shado now makes her way to Star City.
Post-Credits Scene: Observing the chaos and failure of his wild-card protégé Cheshire, Ra’s Al Ghul has a confrontation with Batman, where the Caped Crusader warns Ra’s to put an end to is theatrics in Star City. Ra’s tells Batman he has no more interest in Star City, having failed twice, but he warns Batman to keep out of his affairs, or else Gotham may be the next place the League of Assassins visits.
-The Supers (TV Show)
Protagonists: Supergirl, Steel, Lois Lane, Superboy Antagonists: Cyborg Superman, the Eradicator, Livewire, Parasite, Intergang Side Characters: Jimmy Olsen, Martha Kent, Lex Luthor, Perry White, Kat Grant, Steve Lombard Cameo Characters: Superman, Hal Jordan
Overall Plot: Superman is dead, and Metropolis is in the hands of new saviors now. Since the Man of Steel was killed by Doomsday, there have been those like Steel and Superboy who have risen up to take up the mantle the Kryptonian left behind. But others, like the Eradicator and the new “Cyborg Superman,” have taken justice in a more violent direction. But is the Man of Steel really dead? And how do the new imposters tie into his return? As Lois and Supergirl team up with new heroes to investigate, they are led down a rabbit hole of resurrections and revenge, one that will leave them with dark answers they may not be ready for.
Episode One Plot: A funeral is held for Superman following his death, but in mourning, the Man of Steel seems to have returned, losing his cape and donning new Golden goggles.
Episode Two Plot: As Steel makes his presence known, he comes into conflict with the the new Superman when debating the fate of a villainess on the run. Meanwhile, Lois begins investigating the appearance of the new Superman, but her investigation is cut short by the appearance of a brand new Cyborg Superman, claiming to be the real hero returned.
Episode Three Plot: Superboy, a clone on the run, makes a name for himself in Metropolis as a younger, cockier hero missing the values of the original Superman. Meanwhile, Lois takes the time to talk with Supergirl, sharing with her the suspicions she has on the new Supermen.
Episode Four Plot: Lex Luthor has prepared a gala to announce his new plans for Super-Police to defend the city following Superman’s death. But when the new Supermen finally clash in a confrontation to debate letting Luthor live and killing him for his crimes, the public finally get a chance to decide who their saviors are.
Episode Five Plot: Declared the true savior of Metropolis, Cyborg Superman is put to the test when he faces a new threat: the Parasite. Meanwhile, Lois and Supergirl enlist the help of Steel to investigate the truth of the Cyborg Superman.
Episode Six Plot: In one last act to prove himself, the Eradicator attacks Cyborg Superman, dying in the battle. However, Cyborg Superman’s victory is short-lived, as Lois, Supergirl, and Steel out the truth behind him and the deceased scientist Hank Henshaw.
Episode Seven Plot: Furious with his reveal, Cyborg Superman goes ballistic, assaulting the military and claiming the means to destroy half of the country in a nuclear attack.
Episode Eight Plot: All bets are off in the season finale as Lois, Supergirl, Steel, and Superboy race to stop Cyborg Superman’s plot for nuclear destruction. A race that only becomes more definite as the real Man of Steel finally returns from the dead to save the world.
Settings: Metropolis, Smallville
Mid-Credits Scene: Following the mostly failed nuclear attack, Hal Jordan returns to Earth to find Coast City in ruin, the only city nuked in the attack. He grows angry and mournful, showing the first sign of losing himself to darkness.
-Wonder Woman: Odyssey (Film)
Protagonist: Wonder Woman Antagonists: Circe, Cheetah, Hades, various mythological monsters, Furies Side Characters: Hippolyta, Artemis Cameo Characters: Zeus, various other gods, Steve Trevor
Plot: After decades of living among man and acting as their hero, the consequences of Diana’s actions have finally caught up with her. The sorceress Circe has been freed, and has destroyed Diana’s home of Themyscira. She has now partnered with the Cheetah as her disciple, seeking to delve into the Underworld to free Hades from the deepest depths of Tartarus. Diana must now travel through the rings of Hell and battle through a gauntlet of beasts and enemies to stop their plot and prove herself worthy of being called Wonder Woman.
Settings: Themyscira, the Underworld
Mid-Credits Scene: Following the near-escape of Hades, with involvement from Cheetah, the Old Gods of Greece meet to determine how they handle this matter moving forward. Ultimately, Zeus decides that the mortals of man’s world have become too dangerous, and declares war on the mortal realm and those who may defend it.
Post-Credits Scene: Following her redemption in the Underworld, Cheetah returns to the old wrecked base she had been frozen inside of during World War II. She explores deep inside the frozen lair, eventually coming across a large chunk of ice that had gone undiscovered until now. And within lies Steve Trevor, perfectly preserved for over 80 years.
-Batgirl Season 2 (TV Show)
Protagonist: Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) Antagonists: David Cain, the League of Assassins Side Characters: Oracle (Barbara Gordon), Batman, Commissioner Gordon, Alfred, Robin Cameo Characters: Red Hood
Overall Plot: Barbara Gordon has been shot and paralyzed, leaving Gotham without a Batgirl... temporarily. When the League of Assassins makes good on their threat and comes to Gotham, a young assassin by the name of Cassandra Cain tries to prove herself as the greatest assassin the League has ever known. But when she fails and finds herself deserted by the League and her own father, Barbara sees a light in her and shows her she has the power to be a great hero instead.
Episode One Plot: The League of Assassins make their way into Gotham as a young Cassandra Cain tries but fails to break into Oracle’s clocktower.
Episode Two Plot: Feeling shame for her failure, Cassandra is lifted up by Barbara, who convinces her that she is capable of being a hero instead.
Episode Three Plot: Cassandra begins her first night of patrol in Gotham as the new Batgirl, but meets resistance when Batman denies the presence of a new Batgirl.
Episode Four Plot: Determined to prove herself, Cassandra follows Batman on a mission to stop a potential assassination, during which the two open up to one another.
Episode Five Plot: Cassandra gets her first taste of a sidekick team-up as she and Robin work together to prevent a terrorist attack from the League of Assassins.
Episode Six Plot: Stakes are high in the season finale, as Cassandra re-confronts her father and seeks to stop the League’s plans for destroying Gotham, by any means necessary.
Setting: Gotham City
Mid-Credits Scene: Feeling disdain for the destruction caused by the League of Assassins, Jason decides it is time to enact his plan and take Gotham for himself, no matter the costs.
-Batman: The Red Hood (Film)
Protagonists: Batman, Robin (Tim Drake), Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) Antagonists: Red Hood, Bane, Joker Side Characters: Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, Oracle, Nightwing, Catwoman, Lucius Fox, Harvey Bullock, Renée Montoya, Mayor Krol Cameo Characters: Darkseid, Azrael
Plot: Bane has arrived, and with him comes the Caped Crusader’s darkest days. Bane has seized control of the city and vows to both break the Batman and ruin everything he holds dear. However, he finds rivalry in the criminal underworld, as a new figure called the Red Hood emerges to take Gotham back his way. Batman is now caught in the crosshairs of a dark beast of destruction and a vengeful ghost from the past battling for control of the city, and with the Dark Knight losing his grip more and more each day, people wonder if the city really needs vigilantes.
Setting: Gotham City
Mid-Credits Scene: Following his identity being revealed and being imprisoned, Bruce sits in his cell as the tv showcases news coverage of another alien invasion occurring in Metropolis. He stares with fear as he watches Parademons swarm the city, followed closely behind by Darkseid himself, finally come to Earth.
Post-Credits Scene: Following the supposed end of the Batman, a hooded figure on a rooftop swears an oath to a mysterious force. As he stands up, he unsheathes his sword and reveals himself as Azrael, prepared to carry on the Batman’s legacy at any cost.
-Justice League Apokalips Part 1: War (Film)
Protagonists: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the Flash, Green Lanterns (Hal Jordan and John Stewart), Cyborg, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Red Tornado, Shazam, Steel, Superboy, Teen Titans, Justice Society, Lex Luthor Antagonists: Darkseid, Desaad, Kalibak, Granny Goodness, Grail, Apokalips Army Side Characters: Various (too many to list lol) Cameo Characters: Orion
Plot: The apocalypse has come. After years of planning and waiting, Darkseid has finally arrived on Earth, his invasion active and his plan clear: find the Mother Boxes and destroy all life in the universe, starting with Earth. The only obstacle standing between him and the Anti-Life Equation is the Justice League, who must unite one more time to defend Earth from the ultimate evil. But with a threat as powerful as Darkseid, do they have any hope of saving the world?
Settings: Metropolis, Apokalips, other cities
Mid-Credits Scene: Following his victory and upcoming conquering of the universe, starting with Earth, Darkseid’s actions are monitored by a man flying his way through space. He grows dreadful at the god’s actions, and activates an alert signaling the “New Gods” to unite.
-Suicide Squad: Operation Apokalips (Film)
Protagonists: Amanda Waller, Deadshot, Harley Quinn, Captain Boomerang, King Shark, Killer Frost, Rick Flag, the Thinker, Parasite Antagonists: Granny Goodness, Female Furies, Grail Side Characters: Few to none Cameo Characters: Batman, Flash
Plot: Darkseid has won, and now the Earth is doomed to die to the forces of Apokalips. However, there is one person left on Earth with a plan to save it: Amanda Waller. Recruiting her team of convicts, she plans a mission to cripple Darkseid’s main military output and steal back an invention of great importance: the Cosmic Treadmill. It’s a Suicide mission like no other, and this time, nobody is certain to be making it out alive.
Settings: Metropolis, STAR Labs
Mid-Credits Scene: Following the shaky mission, Waller meets with Batman and the Flash, presenting the treadmill. Batman thanks her for her mission, saying he has a plan to bring the disappeared Justice League back and save the world.
-The New Gods (Film)
Protagonists: Orion, Big Barda, Mr. Miracle, Bekka, Lightray Antagonist: Steppenwolfe, Black Racer Side Characters: High Father, Drax Cameo Characters: Darkseid, Batman, Flash
Plot: Taking place centuries before the events of “Justice League: War”, the New Gods are a powerful race of galactic beings who rule the universe in place of the Old Gods of mythology. However, when a misguided tyrant god named Steppenwolfe goes on a mad quest for his dark master, the New Gods must search for the ancient Mother Boxes and retrieve them before the darkness can find them and kill the universe.
Settings: New Genesis, other planets
Mid-Credits Scene: In the present, the remains of the Justice League and Argus formulate a plan to take the world back from Apokalips. However, they are interrupted mid-plan, as the New Gods arrive, saying they wish to help... and kill Darkseid.
-Justice League Apokalips Part 2: Crisis (Film)
Protagonists: Protagonists: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, the Flash, Green Lanterns (Hal Jordan and John Stewart), Cyborg, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Red Tornado, Shazam, Steel, Superboy, Teen Titans, Justice Society, Lex Luthor, New Gods, Suicide Squad Antagonists: Darkseid, Desaad, Kalibak, Apokalips army, Black Racer Side Characters: Too many to count lol Cameo Characters: None
Plot: At last, the conclusion to the first chapter of the DCU has arrived. With the Earth in ruins and the core Justice League lost in time, all hope seems lost. That is, until Batman and the Flash come up with a plan to save the world. With the Cosmic Treadmill, they seek to travel throughout time to recover their teammates of the Justice League, and put a stop to Darkseid once and for all. Will they succeed, or will Apokalips rule the universe in the end?
Settings: Metropolis, various locations throughout time
submitted by KingCreeperSeth to FixingDC [link] [comments]


2024.05.19 20:45 FelicitySmoak_ Do you think there's a connection between Michael's death & his attorney Peter Lopez's "suicide"?

Do you think there's a connection between Michael's death & his attorney Peter Lopez's
On June 25, 2009, Michael Jackson dies, reportedly of a Propofol overdose
Three deaths of people connected to Michael happen within a six month period & I begin to think this was not a coincidence.
  • November 5, 2009 - the father of the first accuser Evan Chandler, commits suicide - single gunshot to the head
  • December 18, 2009, Bruce Ayers (Dr. Klein's research assistant and confidant of 3 years) was found dead on a sidewalk in Los Angeles. Ayers knew MJ
  • April 30, 2010, Peter Lopez (Michael Jackson's ex-lawyer) commits suicide - single gunshot to the head
https://preview.redd.it/ttr8fclnhf1d1.jpg?width=190&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf9d10038dbcb96ee666a17bcf9d98aa4f92927d
NO ONE, not his mother nor his family and friends, saw any sign that Peter Lopez would commit suicide. Reports surfaced that said Lopez seemed slightly stressed, but not one sign that morning
Peter dropped the kids off at school at about 9:00 AM Friday. When he got home, he apparently went to the backyard garden and shot himself in the head
There were reports from people close to Peter that thought he seemed "stressed out" in the weeks leading up to his death ... but that he did not tell anyone -- including his family -- what was bothering him.
They did find a 1-page, handwritten note in which Peter expressed his love for his wife & kids and asked for forgiveness, but did not even hint at why Peter would end his life
In the very odd 911 call that his wife, actress Catherine Bach made, she states that there was a "terrible robbery" a few days earlier
I wonder what was stolen? Is the robbery connected?
https://preview.redd.it/i11oo7tqhf1d1.jpg?width=485&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08064dcc10707b306aced4de65b9756339e07932

Peter's History With Michael

Raymone Bain, Michael's former general manager, said she hired Peter Lopez in 2006 as Jackson's entertainment attorney when she was reorganizing his business affairs.
"I'd known Peter for 20 years," she said. When she was searching for a new legal team she said another of her clients, R&B singer Babyface, recommended Lopez.
"I can't think of a nicer individual," she said after his death. "He was a good guy. I'm just so shocked."
Lopez was conveniently/coincidentally hired to replace John Branca.
On August 7, 2006, Raymone Bain stated that:
"in what could be one of the biggest conspiracies in the entertainment industry, documents have been sent to Michael Jackson, and his representatives, which reveal a deliberate plan by some former attorneys as well as associates and advisors, to force Jackson into involuntary bankruptcy. The documents reveal that FORMER ATTORNEYS actively solicited other attorneys, vendors and creditors to 'join in a petition to place the client in involuntary bankruptcy.' ...Based on the timing of the events that have impacted his personal and professional life in recent years, he has long been suspicious that some of them that he entrusted to act on his behalf, and to advise him with respect to his personal and business affairs, may not have always acted in his best interests."
John Branca was fired by Michael Jackson in 2006. Although Branca stated that he left because Michael was surrounded by people who he did not care for or trust, the fact is that that Michael Jackson fired Branca and wrote him a letter demanding that he return all documents that pertained to him.
https://preview.redd.it/m0nczzp07f1d1.jpg?width=642&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a973ae4098ad803623619d397de3700b28764881
Michael's letter was dated in 2003. Did Jackson finally have the evidence against John Branca that he needed? And to be sure, Lopez was aware of all that was going on regarding Michael Jackson, whether it was Branca or other seedy characters that surrounded him.

The Final Months

Some people say Lopez wasn't involved with Michael in his final months. They are wrong. He was integral in the putting together of the This Is It residency, as confirmed by his wife & others
Darius Jordi Lassus, President and CEO of IMC Records said:
"in the past three years, Peter Lopez helped Michael Jackson launch the Life Water "Thrillicious" Super Bowl ad featuring Naomi Campbell, the release of "Thriller 25" (the 25th Anniversary edition of the biggest selling album in music history with new mixes featuring Wil.i.am, Kanye West, Akon and Fergie), "Thriller the Musical", the "This Is It" tour with AEG and an MJ inspired clothing line with Christian Audigier, you simply couldn't stop them, they were on fire."
On February 27, 2009, he is seen in Michael's entourage
https://reddit.com/link/1cvv7k3/video/7f6ceop3df1d1/player

On March 4, 2009, Lopez signed this "Confidential Estate Planning' document
https://preview.redd.it/gzru3t8yaf1d1.jpg?width=2544&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a5ee8d0b0568550c18e6fea27a008cea4078cf0
https://preview.redd.it/tj5bwlg0bf1d1.jpg?width=2550&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5bbdf3d43f83fc7eda70dbbed63196b674bfc155
https://preview.redd.it/w38n5lk2bf1d1.jpg?width=2550&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c323f35b00532b9926eab6172af1aa00f8d8e79b
In April of 2009, Peter Lopez was fired. The reason & by whom is unknown, though it is widely believed to have been by Tohme Tohme
It is said that he was fired to make room for John Branca to come back. Reportedly, on June 17th, eight days before he died, Michael signed a letter hiring Branca back as his lawyer. This letter has never been made public
Howard Weitzman, a lawyer for the estate, confirmed:
"In mid-June, Michael Jackson retained John Branca to represent him as general and entertainment counsel in his business and personal affairs."
We all know about Michael's fraudulent 2002 will that Branca has passed off as authentic but it is said that Lopez was in possession of the legitimate 1997 will
Picture taken May 23, 2008
https://preview.redd.it/55f8icmf8f1d1.png?width=541&format=png&auto=webp&s=0274a7b04ce4520c6ba15aa7c87e790bd5c8dee3
Yes, I know Keya Morgan is not completely trustworthy or a good person but I still don't think we should outright dismiss everything that he says
In this August 2009 interview with Lopez, he says that the Michael Jackson investigation was to be solved "very soon". He seems like a man that knows more than he was letting on
https://reddit.com/link/1cvv7k3/video/rwsjdbpnaf1d1/player
Bach told the police that in the days prior to Peter's "suicide", she was being stalked.
In 2012, when asked if she thought that maybe it was not suicide, or that something other than personal issues was behind his death she said
"I don't know"
In a 2013 interview with The Huffington Post, Catherine Bach states:
"He represented Michael Jackson, and you know how crazy that was. He's the man responsible for putting the "This Is It" tour together. He brought AEG into the picture which I'm sure now he wishes he didn't. So I think that he felt very responsible for what happened to Michael. And I think that that gave him a lot of grief"
This all seems a lot to just be coincidence
Was someone threatening Peter's family because of what he knew about Michael's business?
Peter was openly critical about the way the estate was handling MJ's business after his death. He said they (the estate) did not know what they were doing.
Did Peter sacrifice himself to save his family from threats?
Did he take himself out of the equation because he knew the info he was sitting on and other people knew that he knew?
Peter would likely have known or have been in possession of it, if there was another will
If Peter knew that people had conspired to kill Michael then he would also know that they would have no problem getting rid of him or his family too
Why does Branca seem to be involved in every facet of this?
submitted by FelicitySmoak_ to MJDeathInvestigation [link] [comments]


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submitted by kelti-o to uvtrade [link] [comments]


2024.05.19 14:10 iwokeupabillionare Annie Who Are You? L'inconnue de la Seine. The Girl who never drowned.

Context
Michael Jackson’s song 'Smooth Criminal' featured on his seventh album Bad (1987). The song is about a woman being attacked in their apartment. It used the refrain “Annie Are You Ok?” which is used to teach students CPR on CPR mannequin Annie (Wikipedia, 2023). “Resusci Anne was developed by the Norwegian toy maker Åsmund S. Lærdal and the Austrian-Czech physician Peter Safar and American physician James Elam” (Wikipedia, 2023). The oldest version is the proto-CPR mannequin of the world. It was invented after Asmund “was alerted to… physicians and engineers in Baltimore that had a new and much more effective method for resuscitation, involving mouth-to-mouth breathing”. The creation was sentimental as Tore, his son, had experienced drowning. The doll was modelled after the face of the death mask, ‘L’ inconnue de la Seine’ translated from French to English meaning ‘The unknown of the Seine’ (A rich heritage, 2023). They chose the face of a young female as male doctors would’ve felt uncomfortable practising on a same-sexed doll . Additionally, to resurrect a girl “millions of times is at the centre of a macabre mystery.”
Legend
Legend states, a young female corpse was pulled from the river Seine, the death mask was moulded on the corpse's face by a pathologist as they were beheld by her beauty. The corpse awaited with other bodies for identification which never came in the Paris Morgue. This practise was real as “two-thirds of the corpses dealt with by the morgue fished out of the Seine" were "suicides, accidental drownings or murders” (The Guardian, 2007).
Eric Nadeau stated "the pathologist asked for a mould to be made of the young woman’s face and the closest moulder was [their] very own Michel Lorenzi who founded Artlier Lorenzi, a molding workshop founded in 1871 “19, Rue Racine” (Morgan, 2017) . A suggestion from a now deleted post by users: and the link provided by in this thread provided contradicting info, Phoebe Judge stated that Eric Nardeau stated that the mask wasn’t created of a corpse, but Lorenzi stated in a 1914 French interview, but of a living model in 1866. The mask was made due to the model's popularity with other artists (The unknown woman, p.8, 2023).
According to Nadeau: “Michel Lorenzi, who was from an old moulding family based in a small village near Lucca, Italy and arrived in Paris around 1850” (Morgan, 2017). Although, another source stated that “Michel had a house in Piano. di Coreglia, came to settle in Paris around 1868” (Monumentsmorts, n.d). It's possible the mask wasn't created in France but Italy according to the date Michel Lorenzi moved and the creation year of the mask provided by Nadeau.
Debunkers
Claire Forestier, a descendant of the original Lorenzi stated the death mask’s face has " full, rounded cheeks ... smooth skin…[usually akin to] casts taken from living faces [as they are] are so clear, so detailed, that when you look at the eyelids you can just see the eyeballs' movement underneath. That's the case with the Inconnue" (The Guardian, 2007).
“… moored at their headquarters near the Pont d'Austerlitz, Chief Brigadier Pascal Jacquin was less than convinced that the girl was dead when the mask was made” according to them “the drowned and suicides, they never look so peaceful. They're swollen, they don't look nice" (Grange, 2013).
"In 1960, Pierre Lièvre reported to the magazine "Chercheurs et Curieux." The interview stated the then owner of Atelier Lorenzi's ancestor (presumably Michel Lorenzi) had "molded the Inconnue at the request of a forensic doctor, as quoted on March 28, 2020 in the "Cousu Main editions blog titled "L'Inconnue de la Seine" on cousumain.worldpress.com"". The writer Jean Ducourneau, whilst writing The Church of Céline "(referenced below) [35, 36]", made a visit to rue Racine, they wrote the found that the mask "had been lifted on the face of a very pretty workshop model, reminding us that it is technically impossible for this mask to have been lifted on a corpse," reiterating the technical impossibility of this veil being lifted from a deceased body. "(In fact very quickly the rigidity cadaver blocks the mandibular joint and the smile would rather have been a rictus or a grimace)"
Origin of the Legend
“The name L'Inconnue de la Seine is quite late and probably dates from Ernst Benkard's collection of photographs in 1926 [25, 26] … placed the Unknown Woman of the Seine on the cover of his collection of death masks, Das ewige Antlitz (The Eternal Face) [Figure 20]. The book was published in 1926. The myth of her death mask probably originates from Rainer Maria Rilke’s Cahiers de Malte Laurids Brigge, published in Germany in 1910, in French 1911*.* “Rilke arrived in Paris in 1902 and stayed at 3 rue de l'Abbé-de-l'Épée near rue Racine. [He] mentions the mask of the Unknown woman associated with that of Beethoven, in the window of the molder Lorenzi, rue Racine. “The face of the young drowned woman that was cast in the morgue, because it was beautiful and because it smiled, because it smiled so deceptively . ". [23L page 72 Points edition] [Figure 11].” (Jean-Pierre, 2022).
Beginning Art History
According to Gaelle-Salliot (2017), Lorenzi’s grandniece stated that the death mask was first used for the 19th tetes d’expression at Ecole Beaux Arts. The author cited Edourd Papet’s (2008, p. 20) fact that the death mask was earliest depicted in Charles Bargue and Jean Leon-Gerome’s cours de dessin a drawing manual which features a drawing of Homer. She is depicted in Figure 2 (Gaëlle-Salliot, 2017, p.7). This drawing manual didn't reference a story of that of a drowned girl etc.
Potential real facts about the Jane Doe
An alternative name for the live cast is ‘La Belle Italienne’, from Frenct to English meaning, ‘The Beautiful Italian’. “Several plaster casts manufacturer in the United States added a portrait of the girl in their [catalogue] collection, but in all [catalogues] she is named as La Belle Italienne. Why Italian?. This is a curious fact, it is a true information or an error because the girl was unknown?” She is seen with the name in “P.P. Caproni & Bro. Boston, Plastic Arts. 1911 cat [-ologue]. Masks n° 13525 La Belle Italienne, from life $ 1,00” (Felice, 2012). “Forestier thinks she must have been at most 16 for her skin to be so firm and smooth” (The Guardian, 2007). “According to the draughtsman Georges Villa, who received this information from his master, the painter Jules Joseph Lefebvre, the impression was taken from the face of a young model who died of tuberculosis around 1875, but no trace of the original cast remained” (M, Bessy, 1981 cited by Wikipedia, 2023)”. However, according to Marious Grout, the model was famous and working for “artists around 1875” (Gaëlle-Salliot, pp.6-7, 2015).
False leads
According to Alvarez (2015) the model of the mask gained success in Germany with their father in a Hamburg factory that reproduced the mask (Gaëlle-Salliot, 2017). This fact doesn’t lead to anywhere. She was also identified as a Russian prostitute named Valerie who committed suicide, buried in Pere- Lachaise (Gaëlle-Salliot, 2017). Although, this comes from the fictional book The Mask by William Wood (G. E. W. H, 1951, p.6). As well as, Ewa Lazlo, a creation of John Goto, who wrote a fictional investigative story identifying the model. They “assumed that people would have a postmodern view and treat it as fictional," and they "really didn't expect [people] to take it seriously" as people online took his story to be factual (Grange, 2013).
Conclusion
She has the artistic reverence and mystery of a once youthful girl alike Afghan girl. “In light of the Cold War, the portrait was described as the "First World's Third World Mona Lisa"” according to S. Hesford and Kozol (2005) cited by Wikipedia, 2023. A title formally given to L’ inconnue de la Seine “because of her mysterious smile, “Mona Lisa of suicide” (Aragon)” (Jean-Pierre, 2022). The legend casts a great shadow over her identity, as the story ends with a corpse; she is muse who’s story is reinvented time and time again. It is possible that not resources all have been exhausted, there is potentially more information that could be obtained by the Artlier Lorenzi. Additionally, we still don’t known the causes-effects that lead to Georges Villa obtaining information about her, it is possible that other documents about this figure exist from this contemporary art community . If this person is Italian - a small possibility – this person’s life could have been documented in Italian records waiting for a face to match the details.
TLDR: An unidentified model possibly of Italian origin, was used to create a live cast of a bust. It was recreated repeatedly. The bust was misreported to a be a “death mask” of girl who drowned in the river Seine, in late 19th century France, from a pathologist in awe of her beauty created the mask. Long after, she became a muse for many artists. Then, she became the model of the first CPR doll in the 1960s. Finally, the victim of a melodic tragedy ‘Smooth Criminal’. No one knows the model’s identity.
Fact-file
Name: Unknown
Age: 16+/- (The Guardian, 2007)
Born: 1850+/- (Based upon the possible creation year of the mask from The unknown woman, p.8, 2023 and possible age range of the model from the Guardian, 2007)
Modelled: 1866? (The Unknown woman, p.8, 2023)
Death year: 1875? (Bessy, 1981 cited by Wikipedia, 2023)
Death cause: Tuberculosis? (Bessy, 1981 cited by Wikipedia, 2023)
Ethnicity: Italian? (Felice, 2012)
Occupation: Model for live casts
Place of work: Lucca, Italy (LORENZI Pierre- Sculptor, n.d) or Artlier Lorenzi, France (Morgan, 2017)?
Employer: Michel Lorenzi (The Guardian, 2007 et al.)
References:
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2024.05.19 14:01 FelicitySmoak_ Thursday, May 19, 2005 - People v. Jackson Day 56

Thursday, May 19, 2005 - People v. Jackson Day 56
Trial Day 56
Michael goes to court with Katherine.
Judge Melville ruled that the jury would be unable to hear the testimonies of CNN talk show host Larry King & publisher Michael Viner as impeachment material against civil attorney Larry Feldman. Melville's ruling effectively handicapped the ability of Jackson's defense team to counter testimony offered by Feldman under oath.
Feldman represented Gavin Arvizo some time between March 2003 and June 2004. The attorney also represented Jordan Chandler, the first boy who brought accusations against Jackson in 1993
During direct examination on 4/1/05, DA Thomas Sneddon used Feldman to drive home the notion that the accusing family was not out for money, as the defense contends. Feldman stated that the family was not seeking to file a lawsuit, and that he had never been asked to file a suit against Jackson on behalf of the family.
On cross-examination, lead defense attorney Thomas Mesereau attempted to undermine Feldman's credibility by asking him about a conversation that allegedly transpired between himself, King, and Viner. Feldman repeatedly denied ever meeting with King and Viner at an eatery in Beverly Hills some time in 2004, where he purportedly relayed to the two men his belief that Janet Arvizo was fabricating the allegations against Jackson. He also denied even personally knowing who Viner was, claiming that he had "never had a meeting with Michael Viner in [his] life."
However, according to a memo attached with a defense motion, Viner recalled Feldman stating that he didn't believe Gavin and referred to the boy's mother as a "flake." Feldman had also allegedly stated that both mother and son were sent out to "another expert and they failed the smell test," and felt they were into the case solely for "money."
When asked by defense investigator Scott Ross if this was a statement actually made by Feldman, Viner replied, "Absolutely." Upon being told by Ross that Feldman had testified that he didn't know who Viner was, Viner stated that was untrue, that they had met many times. Viner added that he was clueless as to why Feldman would deny knowing him.
In a hearing outside of the jury, King stated that Feldman had told him during this lunch that the accuser's mother was "wacko," was "in it for the money," and that the accusations against Jackson "didn't hold water." King added that Feldman met with the mother and "didn't want to represent her," advising that she contact authorities with the allegations. The civil attorney did end up representing the woman and her family, but later withdrew as counsel for reasons unknown.
Viner testified that he "walked away believing that [Feldman] did not believe the allegations." When cross-examined, Viner could not recall Feldman directly quoting anything the accuser's mother may have told him, which would have been a violation of the attorney-client privilege.
After listening to the proposed testimonies, Judge Melville declared them to be "irrelevant," stating that it was unclear if Feldman was sharing an opinion or if he was quoting the accuser's mother. Depending on the media slant, various reasons have been given as to why King and Viner were rejected, including references to the testimony as "hearsay" and an inability to "verify" the statements as "fact."
There have been a number of statements offered during the course of this trial that were allowed in, but not "for the fact of the matter" be it "verifiable" or not. The judge could have allowed both King and Viner to testify to having met Feldman for lunch and to state that the attorney had in fact expressed negative opinions about Janet Arvizo. That would not have been hearsay, and it would have been enough to impeach at least a portion of Feldman's testimony, particularly since King and Viner's statements seemed to corroborate one another.
Given this recent ruling, it seems that there is a differential application of law in the case, one that puts Michael at a disadvantage. Statements offered by any number of prosecution witnesses, particularly those of Gavin and his family, are not in a different category than the testimonies of King and Viner.
It should be clear by now that there seems to be two sets of standards operating here: one set favoring the prosecution, and one that appears to impair Michael's constitutional right to a fair trial.
The highlight from the day was Azja Pryor, a Hollywood casting assistant & the girlfriend of Chris Tucker. Early in her testimony, Pryor broke down and cried when about the family.
“It’s hard for me because I really do love the kids a lot,” she said in an apparent reference to her reluctance to testify against them.
Pryor became friends with the Arvizo family after she was introduced to them through Tucker when Gavin was battling cancer & a number of celebrities became involved in efforts to help them. Pryor testified that she met the family at the Laugh Factory club in Hollywood in 2001. Pryor said she and Tucker began taking the children places. Tucker took them by private jet to an Oakland Raiders game and invited them to his brother's wedding, she said.
Under questioning from Mesereau, Pryor said Janet Arvizo had asked her to take the family back to Neverland in February 2003, just after the family met with a social worker investigating possible child abuse. On that trip, Gavin & Starr spent the day playing at Neverland & even asked the ranch manager to be allowed to stay in Michael's bedroom at a time when he was away.
She told the jury that Janet Arvizo complained to her in early March 2003 that two German associates of Jackson had stepped in to keep her family away.
"I asked, "Does Michael know anything about this?' She said, "They won't let us around him because they know the children tug at his heart strings' ", Pryor testified.
The time period she cited is critical because prosecutors allege the abuse happened between Feb. 20 & March 12, 2003. When Janet testified in the trial, she spoke out against "the Germans" and said they were conspiring with Jackson to hold her family captive.
Pryor testified she and Janet would talk for hours on the phone, but the mother never complained to her about Michael. Pryor said that she never spoke critically of Jackson and praised him in lavish terms.
“It was something to the effect (of) what a great man he is. He is an angel. His love is great,” Pryor said.
The woman also talked with excitement about heading to Brazil for Carnival, Pryor said. That countered prosecution claims Jackson had planned to spirit the boy’s family away to head off trouble
Janet's participation in a “rebuttal video” in Jackson’s defense was voluntary, Pryor said.
“She was very anxious to tell the world that this beautiful friendship was nothing more than they saw -- a beautiful friendship,” Pryor said.
Court Transcript
Trial Reenactment
US talk show host Larry King leaves court after answering questions from the judge. He was not required to testify
Waving as he arrives at court
Arriving at court
Talk show host Larry King & his entourage arrive at court
Talk show host Larry King leaves court after the judge ruled he would not be allowed to testify for the defense
Talk show host Larry King leaves court
Defense witness Larry Nimmer arrives at court
Leaving court
Leaving court
Leaving court
Lead defense attorney Thomas Mesereau Jr. smiles as he leaves court
Waving as he arrives at court
Arriving at court
Waving as he leaves court
Defense witness Aja Pryor arrives arrives at court
Katherine Jackson returns to court after a break
Defense witness Aja Pryor returns to court after a break
Defense witness Aja Pryor leaves the courtroom during a break
Larry King passes through security as he arrives at court
submitted by FelicitySmoak_ to WhereWasMJToday [link] [comments]


2024.05.19 06:19 Maleficent_Wrap_2685 My friend’s weird crush

Disclaimer and explanation before we start:my friend, Jaylee (16,female) has a crush on Jackson (17,male) for 3 years. Jackson and Jaylee are in the same class and on the same bus (Jackson has a bi sister who was dating one of my other friends sister once), now for the disclaimer, this is my first time posting on Reddit so please no hate. So Jackson and Jaylee were sitting together in class and he said in the middle of the school year he had a a crush on a guy but he said they the broke up (they were never dating) it’s not that my friend is homophobic but my friend was bi once, him having a crush on a man wasn’t the problem, it was what happens later that is weird. Later in the day the were sitting together on the bus and he randomly said that he is in love with his sister (like I previously said his sister is bi) then Jaylee got disgusted, as well as people that were next to them. But today she said she still has a crush on Jackson, but she still thinks that he is gross for that
submitted by Maleficent_Wrap_2685 to stories [link] [comments]


2024.05.19 02:32 Bible_says_I_Own_you Talking points for your PIMI family

The strategy here is to use the GB and WT words against them and also use the Bible as an authority. You’ll force them to say they don’t believe the GB or the Bible if they try to criticize you.
“Do you believe the GB is the faithful slave?” They don’t know who the faithful slave is and neither do you. It’s been identified as 5 different people or groups over the years. CT Russel was first, JFK Rutherford and the corporate members next, the 144,000, the part of the 144,000 that is teaching the other part, then just the GB. Will it change again in a minute? If it was clear, there wouldn’t be a need to change it.
I’m not apostate for believing whats true and believing the Bible. If I was to say what’s in the WT now 10 years ago, I’d be apostate. If in 10 years form now I said what’s in the WT now, I’d be apostate. I’ll just stick with what the Bible says and not get too fancy.
I believe jeffrey winder when he says the GB are not inspired and make mistakes. Also when the Bible says each one should carry his own load. I’m not inspired either. But I’m the one who has to bear the consequences for my decisions.
“Do you report service time?” I talk about the Bible as much now as I ever did. [i criticize it as being stupid but I’m not saying that.] I’ll report time when the Bible says to.
Several WT article and videos say you are to blame if you suffer the consequences of believing the WT and later it was revealed Jehovah never cared about that. It says that people who believed what they heard at the conventions and COs about 1975 are you own fault for fixating on dates. It says brothers who spent 12 years in prison over civilian service in Greece should be grateful they spent time in jail after new light said it wasn’t necessary. [See my post history] I’m just taking responsibility for my own actions. Would hate to make a decision based on new light, then suffer consequences, then be told it was my own fault when the new light was changed again. Lots of people died from refusing organ transplants and lots of brothers went to prison when they didn’t need to.
I trust Bible words over Bible principles. Bible words don’t change. Bible principles say beards are bad and also says they’re good. It’s too confusing. I’ll just stick with with the Bible says. Hard to know for sure what music or dancing or medicine God hates. He probably doesn’t hate a lot of stuff we’re told he does.
If the Bible says I can’t do it, I’ll obey, if it doesn’t say that, I’ll assume it’s probably fine.
David Splane said we shouldn’t be applying anything in an antitypical manner unless the Bible specifically says to do that. The 2560 days was used to show the end of the world a lot of times. Not sure why it’s even being applied in an antitypical way.
I don’t think anyone knows who the king of the north is. It is “evidently” one country and then later it is “evidently” another country. Just hard to know.
The WT says there are people who pretend to be anointed. I have no idea and neither do you if anyone is or not.
The generation is 110 years old now. I guess I can just live my life and Jehovah sort out the end of the world.
David Splane said to check the facts regarding negative stories so I did. I watched Geoffrey Jackson testify and read the transcripts f the court cases. The states website isn’t apostate and the court transcripts aren’t taken out of context.
What did you find?
Geoffrey Jackson said JWs weren’t god’s spokesperson right in in court, which was surprising. I’d think he would use that opportunity to give a bold witness. The WT lawyer in Canada said family relations continue normally when someone is Daft and they don’t shun. Brother elder in noweigh said JWs don’t DF minors and that JWs don’t shun. The next days they showed a video instructing the congregations how to shun and how thorough it should be. I don’t think the lawyers care about stopping the preaching. They just don’t want kids being shunned. It wasn’t a good look seeing away lawyers say we don’t shun at all and then seeing a video by the organization showing that shunning needs to be absolute.
Show me in the Bible where it says it’s wrong.
If the new light is loving and scriptural, what was the old light?
I obey God as ruler rather than men.
It seems like a conflict of interest to say after all our research and prayer we humbly conclude we are the faithful slave and you need to do everything we say even if we make mistakes.
The current two tiered DF arrangement is the same as it was in 1974. It was changed in 1980 when ray Franz wrote his book and is not back to 1974 level after the court loss in Norway. Jehovah is very sensitive to current events it seems.
People who are DFd aren’t suffering the consequences of their own actions. Mark Sanderson said the Bible never said people should be shunned over immorality or for any other reason other than being the Antichrist and dying Jesus never came in the flesh. Means those people suffered a lot more than the Bible wanted them to. It wasn’t their choice. I believe mark Sanderson on this. Lots people committed suicide when they were treated like the Antichrist.
The Bible only says to DF for denying Jesus came in the flesh. Like atheist maybe. You can be DF’d for 33 things. You think a guy who smokes deserves to never speak to his grandchildren ever again? What didnt Jehovah just say that? You think a married people should be treated like the Antichrist because they do oral sex? They’re married. What difference does it make what they do naked? Show me that in the Bible.
The Bible doesn’t say to talk to the elders. It doesnt talk about judicial committees. A pdf says that. Not the Bible.
I obey God as ruler rather than men. I’m loyal to God.
“1914 doesn’t matter. We never preach about that” 1914 is linked to 1919. If 1914 doesn’t matter, what happened in 1919? [This is when John measured the temple and said Rutherfords hostile take over of a lucrative printing company was when Jesus picked the one true religion.]
The last days started in 1799 and 1874 and 1914. I can’t keep up. I’m going to college and I’ll let Jehovah sort the rest out.
“This is the only religion that checks all the boxes WT has made for itself.” This religion checks those boxes too.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iglesia_ni_Cristo
Established in 1914, the leadership is anointed, they preach, international, no trinity, no hellfire, no Christmas, no birthdays, full water immersion after studying, no infant baptism, and they disfellowship.
submitted by Bible_says_I_Own_you to exjw [link] [comments]


2024.05.19 02:21 Bible_says_I_Own_you Taking points for your PIMI family

The strategy here is to use the GB and WT words against them and also use the Bible as an authority. You’ll force them to say they don’t believe the GB or the Bible if they try to criticize you.
“Do you believe the GB is the faithful slave?” They don’t know who the faithful slave is and neither do you. It’s been identified as 5 different people or groups over the years. CT Russel was first, JFK Rutherford and the corporate members next, the 144,000, the part of the 144,000 that is teaching the other part, then just the GB. Will it change again in a minute? If it was clear, there wouldn’t be a need to change it.
I’m not apostate for believing whats true and believing the Bible. If I was to say what’s in the WT now 10 years ago, I’d be apostate. If in 10 years form now I said what’s in the WT now, I’d be apostate. I’ll just stick with what the Bible says and not get too fancy.
I believe jeffrey winder when he says the GB are not inspired and make mistakes. Also when the Bible says each one should carry his own load. I’m not inspired either. But I’m the one who has to bear the consequences for my decisions.
“Do you report service time?” I talk about the Bible as much now as I ever did. [i criticize it as being stupid but I’m not saying that.] I’ll report time when the Bible says to.
Several WT article and videos say you are to blame if you suffer the consequences of believing the WT and later it was revealed Jehovah never cared about that. It says that people who believed what they heard at the conventions and COs about 1975 are you own fault for fixating on dates. It says brothers who spent 12 years in prison over civilian service in Greece should be grateful they spent time in jail after new light said it wasn’t necessary. [See my post history] I’m just taking responsibility for my own actions. Would hate to make a decision based on new light, then suffer consequences, then be told it was my own fault when the new light was changed again. Lots of people died from refusing organ transplants and lots of brothers went to prison when they didn’t need to.
I trust Bible words over Bible principles. Bible words don’t change. Bible principles say beards are bad and also says they’re good. It’s too confusing. I’ll just stick with with the Bible says. Hard to know for sure what music or dancing or medicine God hates. He probably doesn’t hate a lot of stuff we’re told he does.
If the Bible says I can’t do it, I’ll obey, if it doesn’t say that, I’ll assume it’s probably fine.
David Splane said we shouldn’t be applying anything in an antitypical manner unless the Bible specifically says to do that. The 2560 days was used to show the end of the world a lot of times. Not sure why it’s even being applied in an antitypical way.
I don’t think anyone knows who the king of the north is. It is “evidently” one country and then later it is “evidently” another country. Just hard to know.
The WT says there are people who pretend to be anointed. I have no idea and neither do you if anyone is or not.
The generation is 110 years old now. I guess I can just live my life and Jehovah sort out the end of the world.
David Splane said to check the facts regarding negative stories so I did. I watched Geoffrey Jackson testify and read the transcripts f the court cases. The states website isn’t apostate and the court transcripts aren’t taken out of context.
What did you find?
Geoffrey Jackson said JWs weren’t god’s spokesperson right in in court, which was surprising. I’d think he would use that opportunity to give a bold witness. The WT lawyer in Canada said family relations continue normally when someone is Daft and they don’t shun. Brother elder in noweigh said JWs don’t DF minors and that JWs don’t shun. The next days they showed a video instructing the co gregarious how to shun and how thorough it should be. I don’t think the lawyers care about stopping the preaching. They just don’t want kids being shunned. It wasn’t a good look.
Show me in the Bible where it says it’s wrong.
If the new light is loving and scriptural, what was the old light?
I obey God as ruler rather than men.
It seems like a conflict of interest to say after all our research and prayer we humbly conclude we are the faithful slave and you need to do everything we say even if we make mistakes.
The current two tiered DF arrangement is the same as it was in 1974. It was changed in 1980 when ray Franz wrote his book and is not back to 1974 level after the court loss in Norway. Jehovah is very sensitive to current events it seems.
People who are DFd aren’t suffering the consequences of their own actions. Mark Sanderson said the Bible never said people should be shunned over immorality or for any other reason other than being the Antichrist and dying Jesus never came in the flesh. Means those people suffered a lot more than the Bible wanted them to. It wasn’t their choice. I believe mark Sanderson on this. Lots people committed suicide when they were treated like the Antichrist.
The Bible only says to DF for denying Jesus came in the flesh. Like atheist maybe. You can be DF’d for 33 things. You think a guy who smokes deserves to never speak to his grandchildren ever again? What didnt Jehovah just say that? You think a married people should be treated like the Antichrist because they do oral sex? They’re married. What difference does it make what they do naked? Show me that in the Bible.
The Bible doesn’t say to talk to the elders. It doesnt talk about judicial committees. A pdf says that. Not the Bible.
I obey God as ruler rather than men. I’m loyal to God.
“1914 doesn’t matter. We never preach about that” 1914 is linked to 1919. If 1914 doesn’t matter, what happened in 1919? [This is when John measured the temple and said Rutherfords hostile take over of a lucrative printing company was when Jesus picked the one true religion.]
The last days started in 1799 and 1874 and 1914. I can’t keep up. I’m going to college and I’ll let Jehovah sort the rest out.
“This is the only religion that checks all the boxes WT has made for itself.” This religion checks those boxes too.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iglesia_ni_Cristo
Established in 1914, the leadership is anointed, they preach, international, no trinity, no hellfire, no Christmas, no birthdays, full water immersion after studying, no infant baptism, and they disfellowship.
Added more content
submitted by Bible_says_I_Own_you to u/Bible_says_I_Own_you [link] [comments]


http://activeproperty.pl/