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2009.03.12 14:47 godforhire Mythology

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2024.05.14 20:21 Ill_Variation_2480 TTPD's new nickname "Female Rage: The Musical" should upset you.

Edit: If you are going to comment on the length of this post, please don't. This is not a simple snark but rather an actual critical think piece about feminism and Taylor Swift.

Introduction

Pertaining to Taylor Swift, "Female Rage" has deviated from its intended meaning after Swift debuted a new performance of The Tortured Poets Department during the Eras Tour. Now, according to Swift's use of the phrase, female rage is interpreted as public backlash against Swift's dating choices rather than as a response to the broader injustices against women and women's rights. This post examines Taylor Swift's flawed feminism, philanthropy, branding, and the controversial trademark petition for the phrase "Female Rage: The Musical". Swift's background as an entertainer, indeterminate politics, and alignment with capitalism over feminism pervades her legacy, again threatening her public tolerance as not just an individual but as a brand.

Once Upon a Female Rage...

If you were cognizant in the early 2010's, you've heard countless jabs at Taylor Swift in the media. Magazines, radio, or online. Music critics did not take her seriously as a songwriter; parents put a woman on an unrealistic pedestal as the ideal role model for their children; she dated too much and used men as lyrical fodder. No matter the story, it inevitably spread, conjoined with everyone's respective opinions, and you'd be left to wonder, "Why does everyone hate this girl so much?"
Taylor's target demographic has always been young or adolescent girls, more so when Swift herself was one. She made music that spoke to the awkward misfit, cultivating a para-social relationship with fans on MySpace, then later twitter, Instagram, and YouTube, where Taylor posted relatable vlogs showcasing the life of a homegrown American girl. Taylor had a delayed public "growing up" and, compared to her female pop contemporaries, Swift never "gratuitously sexualized her image and seems pathologically averse to controversy" (and, apparently, never even had a sip of alcohol until she turned 21). She was more than happy to spin this narrative to allude to an inherent moral superiority above other women in the industry (Better Than Revenge, heard of it?), engaging in the very slut-shaming that she herself endured (the Madonna and Whore archetypes). The victim complex arose with the need to prove Taylor as a different type of pop girl. Based upon her holy and clean image, Swift had been dubbed "a feminist's nightmare", and that "[To Swift] other girls are obstacles; undeserving enemies who steal Taylor’s soulmates with their bewitching good looks and sexual availability." Feminism and Tennessee-Christian country values don't exactly mix, it seems.
Years later, Swift befriended Lena Dunham and thus experienced white feminism osmosis, where Dunham taught Swift that real feminists defend rapists, makes insensitive jokes about rape and abortion, and prioritize all-white casts. Swift then declared herself a feminist in 2014, saying,
"Becoming friends with Lena – without her preaching to me, but just seeing why she believes what she believes, why she says what she says, why she stands for what she stands for – has made me realize that I’ve been taking a feminist stance without actually saying so."
I suppose the male-centric songwriting subject that permeates Swift's discography contained covert feminism and that we just didn't see that. Perhaps, the "Bad Blood" song and music video were written only in jest and not about poor Katy Perry, for Swift, as a feminist, would "never make it a girl fight" or tear other women down (though all Katy did was date your terrible ex-boyfriend and allegedly steal three backup dancers from your tour). In 2013, Swift said, in response to Tina Fey and Amy Poehler's joke towards her serial dating, "There is a special place in hell for women who don't help other women."
There was that time in 2015 Taylor said that Nicki Minaj was "invited to any stage [she is] on" (as if Taylor expects to have access to every stage, award, and platform that Nicki might not otherwise have as a black female artist...yikes!) in response to Nicki's criticism of the white + thin VMA nominations. Later, Nicki responded with confusion, as Swift continued, "It’s unlike you to pit women against each other. Maybe one of the men took your slot..". Of course, this 'beef' was 'squashed' when Nicki performed with Taylor at the VMAs, with Nicki quite literally only having 38 seconds of stage time without Taylor. Maybe all that parading around with a legion of famous white women - similar to the way Taylor might've done with her numerous 1989-era handbags - was in fact a stance against gender inequality, and that this display of "girl power" should be enough to constitute Swift as a feminist icon.
Even while Swift says that Dunham informed her feminist outlook, she dances around the exact contents of those beliefs: "what she believes, what she says, what she stands for" is not exactly insightful towards what beliefs Swift might have inherited. Taylor never broaches women's rights topics such femicide, FGM, forced pregnancy & marriage, sex trafficking, women in slavery, women's financial and political oppression, women's educational rights, women's health, or women's autonomy, so we can assume she only gives a fuck about "girls supporting girls" (whatever that fucking means).
Despite some questionable (and sometimes vindictive) behavior, Taylor as a young woman did not deserve every media lashing that she received. We cannot deny that most headlines and criticisms perpetuated a misogynistic rhetoric which has plagued Swift for a majority of her career. Acknowledging events such as the development of her ED, her sexual assault trial, "Famous" lyric and MV depiction of Taylor, and the explicit Twitter deepfakes, for example, as both disgusting and unfortunate things that happened to a young woman in Hollywood does not negate the fact that Taylor is mostly a performative feminist.

Get Your Fucking Ass Up and Be a Philanthropist, It Seems Like Nobody Wants to Be a Philanthropist These Days

In 2013, Taylor Swift cut the ribbon at the grand opening of the Taylor Swift Education Center at the Country Music Hall of Fame in Nashville, Tennessee. The donation amount - $4 million - was the largest individual artist gift ever donated to the Country Music Hall of Fame, which is, of course, mentioned on Swift's website. The two-story facility features three classrooms, an instrument room, and an interactive children's exhibit gallery. Swift also performed at "All for the Hall" charity shows and has donated numerous artifacts from her career (such as notable guitars, tour costumes, etc) to the museum.
This was over 11 years ago, and it is still the only notable philanthropic contribution Taylor Swift has made.
For a woman of her net worth and stature, and a woman who recognizes the difficulties for women in film and music, you would think that Taylor Swift might establish a scholarship program for women to study the arts or something. Perhaps Swift might even consider becoming a member of organizations that support female artists, or one that supports LGBTQ+ causes (since she is now proudly an ally), yet she remains superficial with her graces. Broader philanthropy, such as donating relief aid to Palestinian women or women impacted by violence and discrimination will probably never receive any financial support from Miss Swift because then she'd be using her money towards philanthropies involving anyone but white entertainers.
She even says herself in Miss Americana, "My entire moral code as a kid and now is a need to be thought of as 'good'." Well, she's certainly thought of as good, though her actions say otherwise. She's more than happy to do a vaguely altruistic song and dance for a clip-worthy interview quote and mass appeasement, then fuck off to one of her mansions on a 20 minute private jet flight, rather than actually contribute to anything pertaining to the causes she has endorsed. Yet, far too many people continue to give a woman such as her their money, time, and energy, and she hoards these resources to herself.

I Like Some of the Taylor's Songs, But What the Fuck Does She Know About Feminism?

Swift continued with her self-proclaimed feminist campaign, positioning herself as a political activist and LGBTQ+ ally in the Miss Americana documentary. The primary focus of the documentary consists of the sexual assault trial, Andrea Swift's cancer diagnosis, Taylor's ED and body dysmorphia, media scrutiny, and, largely, finally speaking up about her politics publicly, mostly her opposition to the 2018 Tennessee Republican senate candidate, Marsha Blackburn, and Blackburn's beliefs. Swift says, following a scene discussing her experience during the trial,
"I just couldn't really stop thinking about it. And I just thought to myself, next time there is any opportunity to change anything, you had better know what you stand for and what you want to say."
We must ask ourselves, though: when has Swift ever spoken up to change anything? Okay, pulling her entire catalogue from Spotify because they didn't pay their artists enough and similarly pulling her catalogue from Apple Music are changes that she leveraged due to her revenue potential and power, but they are not pertinent to the average woman's rights. Moreover, these are issues that directly impacted Taylor's income, which was enough reason for her to protest in the first place. Swift has sold the most units for a female artist in first week sales, is the first female artist with 100k monthly Spotify listeners, is the first female artist to win the Album of the Year Grammy 4 times, and is the first female artist to do X, Y, and Z, all while being inoffensive and family-friendly to boot. The actual Taylor Swift seems unwilling to compromise the brand of Taylor Swift by contributing in meaningful ways to feminist causes, especially if it is for women outside of America and Hollywood.
The reason political anthems such as "The Man" and "Only the Young" of the Lover era feel disingenuous and corporate is because, well, it is. Taylor has taken every opportunity to advance her career or public image at the expense of other women. What is truly genuine to Taylor's outlook on other women is vying for male attention, taking down female competition, and vocalizing feminist injustices only if they directly impact her and her money. Some will argue that it's satisfactory for a woman with such a huge platform to even TALK about feminism, but that just isn't enough. It's even less impressive when you candidly look at the scope of her feminist lens: "If I was the man, then I'd be THE MAN", or "I really resent the ‘Be careful, buddy, she’s going to write a song about you’ angle, because it trivialises what I do", and, of course, "We all got crowns". Feminism, but only when it happens to me. It gets worse when you look at Taylor's track record of copying other famous women and removing other female artists as potential threats to her pop prowess.
It's good for PR to align yourself with certain blanket feminist and political beliefs, therefore good for branding, therefore good for ticketing and merchandise sales, therefore good for business. And Taylor Swift is a business.
She's not a feminist. Taylor Swift is a capitalist.

I Can't Pay Those Sweatshop Workers a Livable Wage or Benefits! How Else Would I Make My Billions?

Recently, Taylor's team filed to trademark the phrase "Female Rage: The Musical" after Taylor said during Paris N1 of the Eras Tour,
"So you were the first ones to see The Tortured Poets at the Eras Tour...or as I like to call it, 'Female Rage: The Musical'."
This trademark petition was filed last week on Saturday, and news comes about just as numerous unofficial fan-made merch designs have cropped up with this phrase plastered on Fruit of the Loom basics. I'm of the opinion Swift's team motioned for a trademark so that they can send out cease & desists to all those that make knockoff merch, which disrupts potential sales for Bravado, UMG's choice merchandising company; however, since it was filed earlier, perhaps Swift has bigger plans with the bizarre use of the gendered phrase. One Swiftie referred to the phrase "female rage" as "a funny Eras Tour joke". Could it be a possible fourth version of the Eras Tour Movie? Whatever the reason, the motion to capitalize off of such a concept is disgusting, but not unsurprising, for a woman that profits on her vain feminism.
Swift, through her company, TAS Rights Managements, has also trademarked over 200 phrases, including "1989", where she owns the property rights to this calendar year on keychains, phone cases, sunglasses, stationary, bags, beverage ware, clothing, entertainment services, your subconscious, and, of course, Christmas ornaments.
The vapid consumerism in Swiftie culture is, frankly, disgusting. Bravado's sustainability statement is non-existent, the quality control is abysmal, and the materials they use are horrible. The materials, such as acrylic and polyester, are made from petrochemicals. This means they are non-renewable, shed microplastics, and are quite toxic in production. The manufacturing process to make all of those lazy-rushed Eras Tour logo graphic tees is a huge blow to environmental well-being. Apparently, though, Swifties don't give a fuck. They sell out products in seconds and either have to face the manufactured scarcity or buy from a scalper that resells for 200% of the already ridiculous retail price. This doesn't include the environmental impact of vinyl records, CD, and cassette production, of which Taylor produces many variants that sell unsustainable amounts.
If we're talking about women's rights violations, why is no one acknowledging the women that work in the inhumane sweatshop conditions that have to pump out fugly t-shirts and hats? The millions of plastic microfiber dander they are inhaling, or the toxic dyes that touch their bare skin? Are they being compensated fairly for their skilled labour and are they in safe working environments? Do these women have minimal bargaining power, and do they have authority over their worker's rights? Is Taylor Swift female raging at their injustices? Does Taylor Swift ever feels bad that her wealth was built on the backs of women of color, disadvantaged by the demands of the global economy and garment industry? Do you think she ever says a little white feminist prayer for them before she goes to sleep at night?
What's even crazier is not that Taylor herself doesn't care, it's that Swifties don't care. There CANNOT BE ethical billionaires. You only make a billion dollars if you are exploiting other human beings for capital gain. Based on public perception of the possible "Female Rage: The Musical" trademark, it seems like Swifties are already asking for merch with this phrase. "If Taylor made it, I'd buy it." Oh, cool. So not only do you champion Miss Swift's avarice and billionaire status, but you also are unashamed to admit to your blind consumption of her music and merchandise, no matter where they might originate in production or sincerity. Just as Swift takes and takes and takes, Swifties' consumerism of Taylor Swift cannot be quelled.
The tortured artist's most vulnerable and sincere poetry...available now in 21 different versions!

I Am Tortured Poet, Hear Me Whinge

Look - even if Taylor's intention is to characterize TTPD as more "tortured" and "angry", the main thread of the album is "I was ghosted by my decade-long situationship with a controversial indie boy and my fucking stupid fans wrote a 'Speak Up Now' open letter prompting me to drop him" anger, which is adequately expressed in the lyrics and performances. The extent of Taylor's "female rage" on TTPD is on tracks such as "Who's Afraid of Little Old Me?", which contends with relentless media scrutiny; "But Daddy I Love Him", where Swift firmly states she'll date whoever she likes no matter how "Sarahs and Hannahs" may react; and "The Albatross", a track mythologizing her reputation and the consequences of dating her. Of course, these coincide with deep psychological wounds that formed during Swift's early years in the media, and so, from her feminist perspective, these subjects tackle the misogyny and double standards that she faced.
Yet Taylor Swift still has no grounds to be claiming that TTPD best exemplifies female rage and therefore she, in the context of this album, is female rage incarnate. As the daughter of a stock broker and mutual fund marketing executive, Taylor was born into wealth and allowed privileges like trips and subsequent relocation to Nashville all so that she might get a record deal. Her father even invested at least $120,000 into the then-fledgling label, Big Machine Records, which ensured Taylor's place with Borchetta after leaving her dead-end development deal with Sony. The fact that her parents were able to buy her a fucking brand new guitar for Christmas and pay for music lessons says so much about the financial security and safety of her childhood.
Money is privilege and protection, and despite Swift's experiences with misogyny and loser boyfriends, she does not know what female rage is.
Her rage is derived from her frustrations with her obsessive fans pulling the moral superiority card on Taylor in response to her rebound with Matty Healy. That's literally it. She's just pissed that the monster she created is no longer obediant, it's become a feral, sovereign entity that depletes the world of its natural resources and thinks it is more intelligent than it actually is because it's mommy has started to talk to it with big words. Apparently, 'illicit', 'elegy', 'nonchalant', and 'precocious' are considerably big words for the oafish monster, and I find it strange that this level of literacy is present in a group of fans that allegedly have GPAs of 3.5 or higher, but I digress.
Taylor Swift has never been one paycheck away from destitution. Taylor Swift has never experienced racial discrimination. She may have instances of gender discrimination, but she possesses the ideal white, blonde American beauty standard and therefore reaps the benefits of being a conventionally attractive woman. Taylor Swift has sufficient social capital. Taylor Swift is a billionaire woman prolonging her victimhood though she, as a woman, has mostly had control over her image and music (unlike her contemporaries). Taylor Swift is NOT entitled to be championed for her "female rage", nor should she be. Taylor Swift has never even been the struggling artist, for fuck's sake. I don't give a fuck if she's trying to fill the empty lunch tables of her past. Taylor Swift purporting herself, her unpolished album, and her lukewarm feminism as a musical bleeding with female rage is asinine.

Sigh Try and Come For My Job, Poors

Out there in the world right now is a 23-year-old woman, a recent college grad, who works as a barista. She has to wake up and get ready to go into a minimum wage job because she cannot get a job in her field. She doesn't have healthcare benefits or sick time, so she has to go into work no matter how she's feeling. All day long she is berated by vicious customers and creepy men, and, exhausted from being on her feet, she knows she has to go home to her shitty roommate that never does the dishes and her roommate's shitty dog. To comfort herself, she considers getting a treat, but thinks against it when she remembers that matcha lattes cost $15 and they taste like milky dirt. She knows that she needs to buy groceries this week, and so the woman resolves to go home, but notices that her gas tank is low. She goes to put gas in the car, but the pump stops at $27.86 because that's all that she has in her checking account. The woman, bereft and reeling, sinks into the driver's seat. "Well," she thinks, her head in her hands, "at least I don't have Taylor Swift's job. I just couldn't imagine."
Fame is somewhat of a choice. If at any moment Taylor feels that she is misunderstood, misconstrued, or overwhelmed by public opinion, she can LEAVE the public eye - Lord knows she has the retirement fund and residuals to do so. In "I Can Do It With a Broken Heart", the TTPD song about meeting the demands of your career-zenith mega-tour while in the relationship trenches, Taylor ends the song by rambling,
"You know you're good when you can even do it with a broken heart...you know you're good...and I'm good, cause I'm miserable, and no one even knows!...try and come for my job."
Yeah, obviously we wouldn't know, you recently passed the billionaire threshold and are the most famous and in-demand performer in the world right now. Taylor Swift makes an estimated $10 to $13 million dollars A NIGHT on the Eras Tour. Furthermore, the Eras Tour movie grossed $261.6 million globally, (which, as the producer, Taylor takes home 57% of the ticket sales) not counting the streaming revenue from Amazon Prime Video and the estimated $75 million deal that Disney paid to have it on Disney+. We're not even considering the income from cheap plastic popcorn buckets and drink cups plastered with colored squares in her Era-specific likeness.
It's funny. Taylor Swift often said that being famous wasn't hard, that she "isn't complaining". I'm sure it is difficult to always have to present in a good mood, else you'll end up misrepresented in the media, and I'm sure it's invasive to virtually have no privacy or semblance of anonymity. Still, Taylor Swift shows up each night of tour and performs. For a majority of her career, she has penned her sad songs while on the road. Most of "Red", her breakup album, was written in the thick of the Speak Now World tour. Now, some Swifties say they almost "feel bad" for attending the Eras Tour with Swift's revelations in this song, that they have had a 'dimmed experience' upon hearing Taylor's misery whilst performing. Despite the fact that Taylor said that "this was the happiest she's ever been" at Gilette Stadium in May, the lyrics "boohoo, woe is me, smile for the cameras and make the fans happy!!!" are jarring for Eras attendees.
While Taylor Swift was making double-digit millions a night in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil and feeling miserable, Ana Clara Benevides Machado passed away due to heat exposure. The concert promoters, Time For Fun, are now the subject of a criminal investigation due to their lack of adequate hydration and safety. Taylor Swift cancelled the Sunday show that was to follow and offered VIP tent tickets to Benevides Marchado's family, which was a kind gesture, but perhaps incongruous to the incident of which they were offered as consolation. Everyone grieves differently, of course, but I'm not sure attending the very show at the very same venue that my daughter or sister passed away in two days prior, where the singer CONTINUED the show despite her death, would be healthy for closure.
There was no female rage at the show as Swift never saw Benevides Machado pass out. There was no female rage towards the disregard for fans as humans while Swift elected to proceed with her Brazil tour dates despite the country being in historic heatwaves (at risk of overheatting herself). If Taylor Swift was so shaken by touring with a broken heart or a fan's passing, she wouldn't have added an additional North American leg of Eras just two months after the Matty breakup. She's brokenhearted but willing to mend the cracks with your money and move onward with her worldwide female rage induced pillaging.
No matter what happens, even if you die at a Taylor Swift concert, Taylor collects a big fat check and flies away. She doesn't know you as anything other than a conversion rate or earning potential despite what her nearly 20-year long parasocial relationship with fans might otherwise indicate. She knows that, while some Swifties are without disposable income, they feel obligated to spend on a "48 Hours Only!" exclusive vinyl variant instead of necessities because they are so entrenched in Taylor Swift's intoxicating celebrity, they'll prioritize materialistic fandom before their needs. This is good enough for her because this means she can expand her real estate portfolio and finance her cat's lavish lifestyles. They're worth an estimated $100 million dollars. Her three cats could pool their net worth and solve world hunger.
While you and I might be denied bereavement leave and barely surviving the current political and economic climate, Taylor Swift has to, instead of gets to, perform for stadiums at full attendance for three nights in a row across the globe. You and I might be replaced by AI at our longtime jobs, but Taylor Swift is threatened with losing more and more money each time you listen to a "Stolen Version" of her songs. If we don't buy every variant of all of her albums, then who is going to pay for the fucking cats?
It is tone deaf to spend as she spends and lives as she lives in this economy, but this is her reality. She was able to donate $100,000 to all of her tour truck drivers, and that's wonderful, but it leads me to wonder about the ethos of the 2020s where one woman can hoard such life-changing amounts of money. Remember in 2014 when she gave a fan $90 ($120 in today's money) to get Chipotle because she had no fucking clue how much it cost? This is a 34-year-old woman who is increasingly out of touch with the reality for working class people and women in general. Normal everyday adults must wake up and go to their thankless jobs, and yet Taylor Swift, despite all her riches, incessantly references the lows of her life and career as a public figure and entertainer to farm sympathy and drive sales. And still, the corporate women have latched onto "I cry a lot, but I am so productive! It's an art!" as their cubicle battle cry.
Do you think that, from up in her private jet, Taylor Swift gazes at the world through her poetic, tortured eyes, and thinks, "All the little people, in their cars, walking, going about their lives...all those girls that don't support girls...do they know that I've made an album about female rage?"

Conclusion/TLDR

Thank you for reading. I would love to hear your critical insights towards this entire ordeal: TTPD, the trademark, the implications of it all.
TLDR: Taylor Swift is a bad feminist and is delusional to think that the TTPD eras set exemplifies female rage at women's injustice.
submitted by Ill_Variation_2480 to travisandtaylor [link] [comments]


2024.05.14 01:06 NorikoMorishima [TOMT][PICTURE BOOK][2000s?] Just-so story about how Siamese cats got their crossed eyes and kinked tails

The story itself seems to be a folk legend, so it's been retold in a lot of places, which makes this book hard to look for. The legend is often called "The Golden Goblet", but searching by that title hasn't gotten me anywhere, and I haven't found any other names for it.
Here's an example of the legend; here's another one. To quote TV Tropes: "a Siamese cat was guarding a goblet for her owner while she was pregnant, and to keep it safe she stared at it constantly and wrapped her tail around it, which made her eyes crossed and her tail kinked, and her kittens came out the same way, and that's why Siamese cats have kinked tails and crossed eyes."
In some versions of the legend the cat is called Chula and her mate is called Tien, but this discovery hasn't given me success in finding the book. In some versions of the legend the cat's tail is kinked by carrying rings, but this isn't what happened in the book I read.
The art style was fairly realistic, not cartoonish. I seem to remember there being a lot of detail and colour. This actually looks pretty similar in terms of style, though it's not identical and it's definitely not from the same book.
I've ruled out:
I probably read this in the 2000s. I'm not sure how old the book is, but it didn't look old to me at the time.
submitted by NorikoMorishima to tipofmytongue [link] [comments]


2024.05.13 16:23 Chen_Geller The Hunt for Gollum: Peter Jackson's Leonore Number 3?

The Hunt for Gollum: Peter Jackson's Leonore Number 3?
I've written before about The Hunt for Gollum for Fellowship of Fans AND for this board, but having had time to think about it, I think a deeper examination of it is in order.
The Lord of the Rings: The Hunt for Gollum is a film, scheduled for 2026, produced by Sir Peter Jackson and directed by Andrew Serkis, about Aragorn and his tracking down Gollum during the early stages of The Fellowship of the Ring and/or the period leading up to it.
The film is an intriging concept - not least for the participation of all these Lord of the Rings and Hobbit luminaries - including perhaps de-aged cast members - but does raise some concerns: in the pas, these kinds of entries-between-the-entries have done as much a disservice to their respective series as they enriched them: could this film possibly sidestep such issues?

What is it about?

In spite of the name - which is only a working title - this film is NOT essentially a Gollum film like the dreaded video game, but AN ARAGORN FILM: It is based on Aragorn's descriptions (mostly in the Council of Elrond) of his hunt of Gollum. Exactly what the film will entail is unclear: given that Gollum first leaves his cave only a few years after The Hobbit, the filmmakers could use it as license to regail us with much of his travels and those of a younger Aragorn, as well as Gondor tilting towards war, Balin's colony in Moria, and perhaps even Saruman falling under Sauron's spell: The White Wizard is already expected to appear in animated form in The War of the Rohirrim. Even oddballs like Tom Bombadil could be made to fit in there.
The title, however, may well suggest a more focused premise, centering on Aragorn and Gandalf's actual hunting down of Gollum, perhaps much of those earlier events in Gollum and Aragorn's life condensed into a prologue. This would make this NOT be a prequel in the usual sense of the word: rather than take place BEFORE Fellowship of the Ring, such a film will take place DURING Fellowship of the Ring, betwen the 32 minute mark when Gandalf leaves to convene with Aragorn, who suggests hunting Gollum down, and the 34 minute mark when Ringwraiths first approach the Shire. In that case, I mused here on the sub that this might entail the producers opting for de-aging rather than recasting the roles, especially since the films do away with the seventeen-year timelapse that was to occur at this spot.
This is actually a premise that had intrigued Jackson for a long time: Aragorn and Gandalf track Gollum down from the outskirts of Mirkwood to the outskirts of Mordor. Gandalf breaks off for Minas Tirith while Aragorn tracks Gollum (since having gone through Shelob Lair only to be captured in Mordor) to within sight of Minas Morgul and finally catching him in the Dead Marshes, and leading him to the Woodland Realm, where he's finally released from captivity in the mayham of an Orc attack.
https://preview.redd.it/r8jefllpd70d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=2a2258aa1f0f882ddb0b2916b64c13212cecd0c1
Jackson evidentally loved it, talking about shooting it - at the time as more footage to be added into The Lord of the Rings - as early as 1998: "We would write and shoot [...] scenes involving Gandalf and Aragorn hunting Gollum, and his capture by Orcs …" He lamented its absence in the director's commentary to The Fellowship of the Ring. By 2002, while in post-production for The Two Towers, Jackson confided in both composer Howard Shore and Executive Producer Mark Ordesky that he intends to make The Hobbit and a "Lord of the Rings prequel" about Aragorn. The project entered development along with The Hobbit in 2006, but seemingly died out before 2008, as The Hobbit was proving a bigger undertaking than originally concieved.
Nevertheless, Jackson says they still wanted to have Mortensen in the film: "We did try to figure out a way to put... to get a cameo, even if it was a cameo for Aragorn and actually for Arwen, too: we tried to have Liv Tyler in the film." Mortensen suggests he turned an approach down, but for his part Jackson says: "We couldn't think of a way of doing it."

Who is making it?

The film is being produced by Sir Peter Jackson, written by Philippa Boyens, Dame Frances Walsh and apparently by War of the Rohirrim scribes Arty Papageorgieu and Phoebe Gittins. Ken Kamins (Jackson's agent) is executive producing along with Andy Serkis and Jonathan Cavendish and, presumably, Pam Abdy and Michael de Luca. Serkis is to direct as well as reprise his role as Gollum, and had talked about going back to New Zealand to work with Weta.
Jackson had previously said: "You kind of feel a sentimental attachment, a sort of ownership, to the Middle-earth that's been put on the screen." In an interview he says:
Having been happy to hand The Hobbit to Guillermo [Del Toro] and then doing it myself, I definitely ended up with a stronger sense of ownership of Middle-earth than I ever had before, and it would be kind of hard to sit back and watch another filmmaker do stories if they were connected to these ones. If they weren’t connected, then sure. But if it was something connected to this mythology that we’ve done, if I had the energy and the strength then I would really want to do it. Never say never!
This return of the familiar faces is reassuring: even de Luca was one of the executives championing The Lord of the Rings in New Line in 1998. Astonishingly, this will be the seventh (!) film in the series produced by Jackson and, after Rohirrim releases later this year, the fourth produced by Philippa Boyens, and alltogether they'll amount to a good 25 hours (!) of film from these filmmakers in this Tolkien setting.
Andy Serkis had first directed some of his fight with Deagol in The Return of the King, and became the second-unit director of The Hobbit trilogy, and has now been "promoted" under Jackson's producer mantle to direct this film. Along with Weta Workshop and WetaFX, and presumably concept artists Alan Lee and John Howe (hot off of Rohirrim) and perhaps later on composer Howard Shore, this stands a good chance of managing to bottle the same sensibilitiy as the previous films. Jackson had spoken of this for The Hobbit: "We have deliberately tried to pull the same people back again, because they are the sort of the beating heart, they're the spirit of the film."
Never, in fact, has a film series managed to maintain the kind of continuity in the production crew that Jackson had achieved in this film series. At the end of The Hobbit, visual effects supervisor Mat Aitken mused: "I don't know if one team has ever worked on all six films in a series, to the extent that this has all been hand-crafted by one sort of central team of people." The War of the Rohirrim and anchiliary projects like the "Beyond the Door" renovations at Hobbiton have also reunited some of the Lord of the Rings crew, and now this film is sure to do the same.
Putting the de-aging cunundrum to the side for a second, the film is bound to also include new characters, and its as of yet an enigma as to who they would be and who might play them.
To de-age, or not to de-age? That is the question.
The project is completely separate from Amzon Prime Video's The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power. In fact, New Line executives say they seek to "stop Amazon blurring the lines" between the show and the films. Having said that, since in its first season the show had also made a concerted effort to draw Lord of the Rings veterans into the fold, there is going to be some overlap in terms of the craftspeople like Weta Workshop. If anything, the show provided them with a dry-run for this film. John Howe is still on the show's payroll and will presumably have to carefully manage his time, or else choose one production or the other, with my bet being that, if called for it, he's sure to go with Jackson.
There's a hillarious bit in the director's commentary to The Battle of the Five Armies:
Philippa: "Aragorn really is one who tracks Gollum and ends up...and finds him eventually in the Dead Marshes, and he's taken to the Elves. And he's taken to the Elves, and because of the kindness of the Elves - and Legolas is one of his keepers...
Jackson: "In Mirkwood?"
Philippa: "...in Mirkwood, and through their kindness he actually manages to escape. Or has he escaped? Or was he let loose?"
Jackson: "So that's like a seventh Tolkien movie that you've just heard."
Philippa: Yeah, got luck, Pete!
Jackson: "No, its not a film we're gonna... its a film that we'll never make, but you just heard a little imaginative version of it from Philippa Boyens there that you...
Philippa: "The Hunting Gollum through the wild"
Jackson: "The Hunting of Gollum"
Philippa: "and a few other things that go on which are really interesting. Saruman's search for the Ring is also interesting, yeah."
Jackson: "All part of a fictitious film 3.5."

What is it going to be like?

I don't think the portentous comparisons to Star Wars and Marvel are very merited: by the time this film is out, The Lord of the Rings will have a grand total of eight films, while both those series are well into double digits of both films AND tie-in shows. The fact that its crafted by the same people, as I said above, rather than by an army of artisans coming in and out at the behest of an overweening studio, also demarcates it from the standard Hollywood franchise.
Having said that, the film is somewhat akin to the kind of entries-between-the-entries that Star Wars, in particular, had dabbled with increasingly. This is somewhat disconcerting to me because I tend to find such entries very problematic. To quote a fabulous essay about Star Wars:
"The success of 'Star Wars' has obviated a lot of its original virtues. Much of the fun of watching the film for the first time, now forever inaccessible to us, was in the slow unveiling of its universe [...] Subsequent sequels, tie-in novels, interstitial TV shows, video games and fan fiction have lovingly ground this charm out of existence with exhaustive, literal-minded explication: Every marginal background character now has a name and a back story, every offhand allusion a history."
I find that these "interstitial" prequels do the most harm in this regard: there's no surer way to make the Death Star and its blowing of Aldeeran less impressive than to see so much of it in action in Rogue One, and no surer way to make the Ben-Vader duel in the original less effective than turning it into not the second (per Revenge of the Sith) but the fourth confrontation between the two adversaries, as is shown in the Obi-Wan miniseries.
What's more, they can take the time-lapse that exists between entries and trilogies and make it feel condensed by taking all or most of the events that happen offscreen during the interval and dramatising them such that they seemingly happen in a few days or weeks. If this film is set more DURING Fellowship of the Ring then before it, that could help sidestep this issue.
These are, however, issues that I think the Tolkien films had managed to sidestep until now. This film, however, is serious danger of falling right into them: the way Fellowship of the Ring keeps Gollum in the shadows still works after An Unexpected Journey, partially thanks to the big time-lapse between the two. Seeing Gollum through this film at a time more closely adjacent or concurrent to The Fellowship of the Ring, however, will ruin this buildup that is in Fellowship of the Ring. Strider, sitting off to the side in The Prancing Pony, will no longer be able to retain that air of mystique and potential danger he's supposed to have, although admittedly the film (unlike the book) doesn't keep this charade up for very long.
What's more, if the filmmakers don't resist the urge to revisit a lot of the locations of The Lord of the Rings like Gondor and much of Mordor, it will risk "flatenning" the experience of The Lord of the Rings: The Hobbit already reprised (rather harmlessly) Hobbiton, Trollshaws, Rivendell, Amon Sul and Bree. If this film also throws-in Lorien, Mordor, Gondor, Moria, the Dead Marshes and even Shelob's Lair into the mix, it will have an effect similar to what Beethoven feared Leonore number 3 overture would have to Fidelio: by encapsulating many of the tunes to appear in the piece, it effectivelly made the piece itself superflous. Likewise, if we visit practically all the locales of The Lord of the Rings before actually getting to Lord of the Rings, much the air of discovery that is so crucial to the atmosphere of these films will have evaporated.
The only way to sidestep this would be to cast as much of this film as possible into the wilderness. Revisiting the Woodland Realm, by contrast, could be a welcome addition: it would be nice to see Thranduil's realm on better times, with the Elves no longer cooped inside Thranduil's underground stronghold but spread around it and through the Woodland at large. Jackson and Boyens have mused about revisiting Tauriel before, so that's a possibility some fans might not appreciate, but which I think is plausible enough given the setting.
The Woodland Realm: notice the walkway and stairs to the side.
Another way to sidestep it would be to frame it in such a way that it works as a flashback AFTER Fellowship of the Ring, being that its probably concurrent with that film. At the same time, structurally, this film might play better in the middle of the structure, balancing out the two trilogies in terms of length.

So, what next?

Jackson is attached to produce another undisclosed film, rounding up a mammoth eight films in his personal Tolkien oevure, and nine films in his audiovisual realisation of Middle-earth. Being that this first one is one that takes place during The Fellowship of the Ring and that we know Jackson had long wanted to make, it makes sense that the second film will be of a similar sort. This suggest the Battle of Dale as a possible subject matter, concurrent with The Return of the King. Tellingly, Philippa had hypothetically mentioned it in her interview with Nerd of the Rings.
submitted by Chen_Geller to lotr [link] [comments]


2024.05.13 15:47 mcm8279 [Opinion] CBR.com: "Why Michael Burnham Was Right to Violate Star Trek's Most Sacred Rule" "Burnham broke the Prime Directive out of desperation to save Tilly, but the effects of her doing so might be even more positive than the Denobulans only half-breaking it."

"Whistlespeak" presents a scenario where even responsible Prime Directive breaking can have a deleterious effect. The indigenous people of Halem'no likely prefer their brutal religious practices to total annihilation. Yet, the episode reveals that something as simple as mechanical entropy can make breaking the Prime Directive for "good" reason equally problematic."
Joshua M. Patton (CBR. com)
Link:
https://www.cbr.com/michael-burnham-violate-prime-directive-star-trek/
Quotes:
CBR: "When the Prime Directive was first instituted in Star Trek it was a unique statement against colonialism in the 1960s when America was looking spread "democracy" everywhere. Many of the stories in Star Trek: The Original Series, Star Trek: The Next Generation and even new series like Star Trek: Strange New Worlds bring up the Prime Directive in order to break it. While this is not the right thing to do in the eyes of Starfleet, it is often painted as the morally right decision for the characters.
Even the second reboot film, Star Trek Into Darkness, begins with Captain Kirk and company violating the Prime Directive to save both an indigenous population from destruction and Commander Spock. However, the far-future setting of Star Trek: Discovery Season 5 allowed the storytellers to offer a unique perspective on the consequences of the Prime Directive well after the moral intervention first takes place.
In "Whistlespeak," Burnham and company have to find the fourth piece of the puzzle that will lead them to the technology of the Progenitors. These ancient aliens are the founders of all humanoid life in the galaxy, and two space-pirates named Moll and L'ak are looking for it to sell to the highest bidder. The situation that leads them to the planet of Halem'no, where advanced technology is the only thing keeping its indigenous population from dying in planet-wide storms. These weather control towers were built by Denobulans, the species of Dr. Phlox from Star Trek: Enterprise. Apparently, their planet faces similar weather troubles. The Denobulans built the towers, itself a Prime Directive violation.
[...]
In Star Trek: The Original Series the USS Enterprise is sent to check in on a pre-warp culture that was contacted by early Earth travelers before the Prime Directive. Season 2, Episode 17's "A Piece of the Action" revealed the people of Sigma Iota III based their entire society around a book the explorers left behind about Chicago organized crime in the 20th Century. This was very much like what happened to the people of Halem'no with a key difference: the Denobulans didn't reveal themselves. For all the downsides of the Sigma Iotian culture, being a gangster wasn't a religion. With no answers for how the "High Summit" protected them, the people of Halem'no had to create a mythology around it.
The Denobulans saved these people without fully violating the Prime Directive, but they did not foresee the consequences of doing it. Kirk and company were allowed to visit the Sigma Iotians because the Prime Directive had been, essentially, violated. Since the Denobulans kept themselves a secret, Captain Burnham and Tilly couldn't fully help the people understand what they needed to do to fix their weather and, possibly, reclaim the land lost to the "dust" when the other four towers failed. Just as Kirk and company likely affected the culture after their visit, Burnham and her crew do the same on Halem'no.
In fairness to the Prime Directive purists, Ohnahz told Burnham that attempts to stop the sacrifices led to violence among the people before. Yet, this was because there was no answer to replace the mythology. Now that they know shifting around some iso-linear chips can fix the towers, there would likely be less discord among the inhabitants. Burnham broke the Prime Directive out of desperation to save Tilly, but the effects of her doing so might be even more positive than the Denobulans only half-breaking it.
[...]
What makes "Whistlespeak" such a fresh take on this concept is the addition of time. To the Denobulans in the 23rd or 24th Century, saving these people was an unquestionably moral good. They could help and, thus, they should. Yet, in only half-violating the Prime Directive, they may have impeded the society's technological development. Instead of scientific advancement, they believed feats of endurance and sacrificing their lives was what pleased the "gods," the language they used to describe the effects of technology. While Michael Burnham was right to come clean with Ohnahz, the episode also suggests saving a culture for the right reasons may not be "saving" them at all.
The Prime Directive, like many of Star Trek's best concepts, came from an idea of Gene Roddenberry's that was developed in scripts by the "other Gene," Gene L. Coon. In the 1960s, many Westerners thought it was a moral duty of developed cultures to bring education (and, usually, a religion of their own) to "primitive" cultures. This almost always leads to Imperialism, which is what Star Trek's Genes were railing against. Anti-colonialism was not a popular way of thinking in the 1960s, and the kind of message that sci-fi allegory is perfect to explain. In The Original Series' "A Private Little War," Kirk regrettably breaks the Prime Directive to arm a society in an allegory for the Vietnam War.
The Prime Directive is mostly broken for Spider-Man's favorite reason. With the great power of Starfleet's technology, they have an equally great responsibility to use it to help those in need. "A Piece of the Action" is meant to show what happens when cultural influence is used irresponsibly. However, "Whistlespeak" presents a scenario where even responsible Prime Directive breaking can have a deleterious effect. The indigenous people of Halem'no likely prefer their brutal religious practices to total annihilation. Yet, the episode reveals that something as simple as mechanical entropy can make breaking the Prime Directive for "good" reason equally problematic. "
Joshua M. Patton (CBR. com)
Link:
https://www.cbr.com/michael-burnham-violate-prime-directive-star-trek/
submitted by mcm8279 to trektalk [link] [comments]


2024.05.13 09:44 geopolicraticus Shedding Disconfirmed Theories and False Prophets

The View from Oregon – 288
Re: Shedding Disconfirmed Theories and False Prophets
Friday 10 May 2024
Dear Friends,
In last week’s newsletter I repeated a claim that I have made previously, specifically, that there is no science of science. As I have been thinking about this claim over the past few years, the consequences of individual sciences (which I often call “the special sciences” in order to distinguish them from science simpliciter) being reasonably well-founded while the enterprise of science itself is, on the whole, not well-founded, have slowly unfolded for me, and every so often I see a new angle to it. I also discussed this in my Wilhelm Windelband and the Place of History among the Sciences, and here the new angle was my realization that idiosyncratic efficacy in science—some people are good at science and others are not—means that individuals and their personalities loom large. This partly explains the heroic narrative of the history of science, treated as an intellectual parallel to Carlyle’s “great man” theory of history.
I have also argued that, contrary to appearances, ours is not a scientific civilization. Many people who have not thought deeply on civilization have asserted that contemporary civilization is scientific. I would say that science plays a crucial role in the development of technologies, but when you step back from all the claims made about science today, it is easy to see that it is not science calling the shots. During the Enlightenment, there was an integration of Enlightenment political thought and science, and it seemed that Enlightenment ideologies translated into state structures (the American Revolution and then the French Revolution) would place science at the center of political deliberations. However, as Enlightenment ideology has developed over the past quarter millennium, it has increasingly diverged from science. With Enlightenment institutions effectively in charge of scientific institutions (higher education, scientific publishing, state funding of science, etc.), Enlightenment ideology has been gradually shaping science to suit its purposes.
If ours were a scientific civilization, it would be science calling the shots, and Enlightenment institutions would be bent to the will of science, and not vice versa. But we can easily see the problem here. Since science cannot make itself fully and completely scientific, science answers to the dominant personalities within scientific institutions, and these personalities can be as benighted and corrupt as any other human beings on the planet. One of things that I have learning by attending conferences over more than a dozen years is that individuals focused on their field can be rational, creative, and interesting in their work, but as soon as they leave their specialization, they are babes in the woods. James Burnham in his The Machiavellians: Defenders of Freedom, made a passing remark about Einstein’s views on economics, and this is very much to the point: an individual can be so gifted that they see something that everyone else has missed, but outside their field they endorse ideas that are insipid.
So if Enlightenment era institutions were bent to the will of science, that would mean little more than that these institutions would be bent to the will of prominent scientists, and prominent sciences are men of their time: they would (and they do) simply repeat the platitudes of the society of which they are a part. This is how Enlightenment ideology triumphs over rationality, no matter how fulsome representatives of the Enlightenment are in the praise of science and rationality. It’s all hollow. It is a political program that is in the driver’s seat. And, invoking this metaphor, we can compare our Enlightenment civilization to Mark Manson’s consciousness car metaphor: reason has the map, but it’s sitting in the passenger seat, while emotion is at the wheel. So it is with our civilization: science has the map, but it is in the passenger seat, while Enlightenment ideology is in the driver’s seat, and it is free to ignore the advice of science (with the map) at any time.
Science in Enlightenment societies is not, however, a perfectly rational actor, in possession of a map that the rest of society lacks. Since institutional science, also known as “big” science, involves large institutions like universities and the government funding that universities receive for their research, these institutions have now shaped generations of scientists after their own image. So, to recur to the consciousness car metaphor, we have to imagine that science is not only sitting in the passenger seat, but that the only thing that science can see is the map it holds, and it must rely on reports from the driver about what the driver sees out the window: landmarks, signs, other traffic, people in the road, and so on, are all communicated to science by the driver, i.e., by Enlightenment ideology, and then science must attempt to figure out where the car is at, and how to get to the next destination. Needless to say, it is the driver making the choice as to what the next destination is to be. Hume, among the greatest of Enlightenment thinkers, said that “Reason is and ought only to be the slave of the passions.” I don’t think that Hume intended this as a prediction, but that is exactly where we find ourselves today.
One could plausibly argue that no institution at the center of a civilization has ever been a pure exemplar of itself and nothing else, a self-contained and autonomous monad, which is what I seem to be implying with the possibility of science practiced according to a science of science, and not according to the non-scientific whims of its practitioners. The institutional religions that served as the focal institutions of pre-modern agricultural civilizations had long histories and were embedded in a social and agricultural context that gave them meaning. We could point to any number of developments in these traditions where it was climate, geography, or available cultivars that were really driving the development of institutional religion, and not the other way round.
Not directly relevant here, but also not entirely irrelevant, I recently realized a structural similarity between Chinese and Western civilization, and this is that the axialization of these traditions did not emerge from a traditional mythology. The Greeks that their traditional mythology, but it was the expansion of philosophy, and especially the turn to moral and political philosophy after the Peloponnesian War, that served the function that appeared in other societies of the Axial Age through the medium of moralizing religions. China, too, has a traditional mythology, which is as marginal and as entertaining as Greek mythology today, but the axialization of Chinese civilization appeared through Confucianism. Of course, it has been traditional to count Confucianism as a religion, sometimes with certain qualifications, but Confucianism is no more of a religion than the tradition of philosophical ethics in Western civilization. I think it would more plausible to argue that Greek philosophical ethics made possible the appearance of the religious ethic of Christianity as it eventually claimed its central status within Western civilization than to argue that Confucianism is a religion.
The two other contenders here for status as an institutional religion determinative of a civilization are Hinduism, and Buddhism, which latter grew out of Hinduism. Zoroastrianism may have been a contender in its day, as Egyptian civilization was once a contender (not as a religion, but as a civilization), but both ceased to be influential before the advent of modernity. We could also count Judaism, but Judaism has never been a proselytizing religion, so it didn’t have the same influence on history of religious traditions that were actively expansionist. Christianity and Islam both appear well after the Axial Age, and, I would argue, as consequence of the Axial Age, continuing to play itself out in history over a civilizational scale of time.
In any case, institutional religions as the central institutions of agricultural civilizations were in no sense pure in their provenance. Why should science need to be pure in its provenance—which, in this context, means being in possession of a science of science that completes the extant special sciences and provides a map for the indefinite elaboration of science? Arguably, science derives its legitimacy from its rationality, and this requirement of rationality can be turned against itself. Analogously, institutionalized religions derive their legitimacy from a metaphysical claim about the supernatural world, however, in the case of institutionalized religion, this claim doesn’t have traction when invoked reflexively.
The supernatural is the gift that keeps on giving: anything unprecedented can be credited to a new manifestation of the supernatural within the mundane world. It is subject to change without notice, so it can literally accommodate anything that happens, or anything that fails to happen. This is not the case with science. Rationality, too, is a gift that keeps giving, but in a rather different sense than the appeal to the supernatural. Disconfirmed theories can be shed as easily as false prophets, but the evidence upon which the disconfirmed theory is built is stubborn fact that cannot be wished away. Not only can stubborn fact not be wished away, but the new scientific theory that takes the place of the disconfirmed theory must not only explain everything that the disconfirmed theory explained, but it must also explain the result of the crucial experiment that became the pretext for the disconfirmation of the old theory. With false prophets it is rather different: any miracles attributed to them can be consistently denied with no knock-on consequences for the institutionalized tradition that managed to rid itself of the unwelcome prophet.
On stubborn fact—which I will assume is one and the same as brute fact—and returning to Windelband, Windelband provided a gloss (also quoted in my Wilhelm Windelband and the Place of History among the Sciences) on this nomothetic/idiographic distinction that is relevant here:
“A description of the present state of the universe follows from the general laws of nature only if the immediately preceding state of the universe is presupposed. But this state presupposes the state that immediately precedes it, and so on. Such a description of a particular, determinate state of the arrangement of atoms, however, can never be derived from the general laws of motion alone. The definitive characteristics of a single point in time can never be immediately derived from any ‘cosmic formula.’ The derivation of the description of a single temporal point always requires the additional description of the previously existing state which is subordinated to the law. General laws do not establish an ultimate state from which the specific conditions of the causal chain could ultimately be derived. It follows that all subsumption under general laws is useless in the analysis of the ultimate causes or grounds of the single, temporally given phenomenon. Therefore, in all the data of historical and individual experience a residuum of incomprehensible, brute fact remains, an inexpressible and indefinable phenomenon.”
The juxtaposition within empirical science that Windelband here describes between general laws and brute fact is the empirical parallel to the problem that the formal sciences face in regard to their foundations. A formal system must begin with axioms (or, today, formation rules and transformation rules, but it’s the same thing), and if we don’t accept the axioms, at least hypothetically, then we can’t go any further. Well, sort of. The knowledge of intuitive mathematics that is formalized in an axiom system could be pursued even if it is never formalized, or never fully formalized. Accepting partial formalizations is like accepting the results of the special sciences without a science of science that can be used as a point of reference that all is well in the special science. This is, indeed, the state of formal knowledge, as full formalization is rare, but it exists as an ideal, and the reasoning that lies behind this ideal has been developed relentlessly over more than two thousand years. The current compromise is to accept axioms in the spirit of hypothetico-deductivism: we don’t claim that they are true, certain, necessary, or anything of the properties traditionally ascribed to axioms; we only claim that we can’t go further in our deductions without accepting an axiom hypothetically.
Empirical science, as Windelband has shown, faces a similar dilemma, but the underlying reasoning has not been as relentlessly worked out. We have to accept brute fact in the same way that the formal sciences have to accept axioms, but in addition to the brute fact we also require the theoretical framework within which the brute fact can be rationalized, and this theoretical framework includes the mathematics that has, as we have seen, its own theoretical compromises. Thus empirical science has a double compromise, with the source of brute fact and with the source of the principles to which it must appeal if it is to rationalize brute fact. With this degree of theoretical complexity, it is no wonder that there is no science of science.
Best wishes,
Nick
PS—In a PS to last week’s newsletter I wrote that I had prioritized rapidity of production over quality of outcome for my video series Today in Philosophy of History. After covering an entire calendar year of philosophy of history birthdays, perhaps next year I will slow my pace of production and focus on producing fewer videos of higher quality. After hitting the highlights, I can then afford to explore lesser known nooks and crannies. I am keeping a list of the philosophers that I have missed or passed over so far in 2024, hopefully to produce episodes on their thought in 2025 (fate willing). For example, I was so focused on the birthdays of Hume and Gibbon on successive days, the 7th and 8th, that I missed Ortega y Gasset’s birthday on the 9th. Hopefully I will be alive next year to record an episode on Ortega y Gasset, whose philosophy of history comprehends several interesting features that deserve more attention. Even prioritizing rapidity of production there is a limit to what I can do, or what I am willing to do. I could have recorded a quick episode on Ortega y Gasset, but I would not have been satisfied with the result. While I can criticize my other episodes, I am at least marginally satisfied with what I had to say.
PPS—I have been staying at my country house in Clatsop County, and today was the nicest day of the year so far. Winters in Clatsop County are wet and cold, and it is mostly miserable to be out in the weather—for comparison, it is the kind of weather you might expect in Scotland, Ireland, or the west coast of Norway. Last week I was still building fires every evening to stay warm, but today was sunny and beautiful. On such a beautiful day it is tempting to stay in the country just to enjoy the peace and quiet, but today I drove to the beach—Peter Iredale beach at Fort Stevens state park. I was at this same beach a few months ago, and it was so cold that it actually hailed at the beach while I was there. Today I was in shirtsleeves and it was warm.
PPPS—The new IBHA newsletter EMERGENCE is available with a Frontiers column by me. This column is about my recent paper, “A Complexity Ladder for Big History.” Some of the ideas in this column will be incorporated into the expanded version of the paper that I mentioned in a PS to newsletter 286.

Newsletter link:

https://mailchi.mp/fd4b450c72c4/the-view-from-oregon-288

submitted by geopolicraticus to The_View_from_Oregon [link] [comments]


2024.05.13 08:34 NorikoMorishima Picture book about how Siamese cats got their crossed eyes and kinked tails

The story itself seems to be a folk legend, so it's been retold in a lot of places, which makes this book hard to look for. The legend is often called "The Golden Goblet", but searching by that title hasn't gotten me anywhere, and I haven't found any other names for it.
Here's an example of the legend; here's another one. To quote TV Tropes: "a Siamese cat was guarding a goblet for her owner while she was pregnant, and to keep it safe she stared at it constantly and wrapped her tail around it, which made her eyes crossed and her tail kinked, and her kittens came out the same way, and that's why Siamese cats have kinked tails and crossed eyes."
In some versions of the legend the cat is called Chula and her mate is called Tien, but this discovery hasn't given me success in finding the book. In some versions of the legend the cat's tail is kinked by carrying rings, but this isn't what happened in the book I read.
The art style was fairly realistic, not cartoonish. I seem to remember there being a lot of detail and colour. This actually looks pretty similar in terms of style, though it's not identical and it's definitely not from the same book.
I've ruled out:
I probably read this in the 2000s. I'm not sure how old the book is, but it didn't look old to me at the time.
Since someone asked in a previous post: Unfortunately I don't remember anything about the front cover of the book. (But I may be able to rule out wrong covers.)
submitted by NorikoMorishima to whatsthatbook [link] [comments]


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submitted by shaneka69 to mytarotreadings [link] [comments]


2024.05.12 19:34 kauan1983 Every Dimension and Supernatural Environment of the Show Explained - A Catch Up for Those Who are Confused About the Mythology

Every Dimension and Supernatural Environment of the Show Explained - A Catch Up for Those Who are Confused About the Mythology
From ST4 Vol 2's release to this day, I see many people confused over how all the supernatural/otherworldly environments of the show are distinct from one to another, mostly because they are missing stuff or misunderstanding official information that hasn't been explicitly explained on the show itself. So I'm making this post to explain what each dimension or supernatural environment means on the show, and put together all the information we have on them. A "quick" breakdown for you all to understand the nature of:
The Hellscape
Dimension X
The Upside Down/The Nether
The Mindscapes
Vecna's Mind Lair

The Hellscape,

https://preview.redd.it/wwf3bx2kz00d1.jpg?width=2500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c49b992dc35ba6089967787d92235f1f8c44dc96
• The Hellscape is an inter-dimensional environment that Number One was jettisoned through by young Eleven in 1979; a deadly, unstable fissure in space and time. This in-between chasm-like environment has two cloud planes parallel to each other conjoining lightning, and behind each cloud plane are mountainous terrains. The Hellscape isn't a dimension, per se, but rather an environment existing between dimensions.
• The Hellscape's design was meant to be "otherwordly and terrifying". Original iterations of it had the classic, red lightning storms that we're used to see in the Upside Down. and in some concept designs and storyboards, the spire mountain-like structures aren't included. Its original, reddish version was actually used on the show but was edited to the current yellow version a couple days after Vol. 1's release.
• There are unused sequences in the Hellscape seen in storyboards where the inter-dimensional environment tapers into a funnel and Number One seemingly falls into a glowing tear.
• There's an omitted scene in the Hellscape in S4E9 which takes place right after One says "I was somewhere... new." to Eleven. Possibly a scene that shows/explains how One went from the Hellscape into another realm:

Dimension X,

https://preview.redd.it/7jtnc52mz00d1.png?width=1983&format=png&auto=webp&s=ed5a89c474f18d75b77a1e4648c68bab9ed61d1b
The strange new environment that we were introduced to in S4E9. A mysterious realm with an altered state of gravity, asteroid fields in a scorched sky and vines and organic growths covering its rocky ground.
• Dimension X is the place where all the Demo-creatures, the Mind Flayer particles, the vines (Nether stretches and Nether Flats), the Spore Clusters and the Upside Down's organic growths originate from. It's the homedimension of all the alien, otherworldly organisms and elements the Upside Down's been infected with since Season 1.
Although we were only introduced to Dimension X on ST4's Vol. 2, its existence has been hinted at by the Duffers since 2016, with Ross Duffer implying that the Upside Down is not where the S1 Demogorgon "actually came from" - the question as to "where these monsters are coming from" is something the Duffers would point out again multiple times in the following years.
Ross: There’s a lot there we don’t know or understand. Even with the Upside Down, we have a 30-page document that is pretty intricate in terms of what it all means, and where this monster actually came from, and why aren’t there more monsters
• Unlike the Upside Down, Dimension X is a realm that has seemingly always existed out there, with Mankind 's first (known) contact with it dating back to October 28, 1943 during the U.S. Navy's Project Rainbow/Philadelphia Experiment. Essentially, Dimension X is an ancient alien terrain existing outside of (our) space and time. A strange realm populated by faceless monsters.
• Just like the Hellscape, Dimension X originally had a reddish coloring before being edited to the current, yellowish version. Early ideas for this Dimensin X included this very early, much darker iteration, and a idea where Mind Flayer particles are a antigravity element lifting the boulders into the air, which was scrapped for being too complex to be explained in S4.
• The exposure to Dimension X's environment has a weird, supernatural effect on visitors, causing their blood to be altered. Which is what happened to Dr. Martin Brenner's father and Henry Creel, ultimately "giving him" his psychic abilities.

The Upside Down/The Nether,

• The Upside Down, which was originally referred to as "The Nether", is a dim, sick reflection of what Hawkins, Indiana looked like on November 6, 1983. Dimension X's vines and organic growths have overtaken all surfaces, making the Upside Down look diseased or infected.
One of the biggest mysteries of the show, which is a question that had been first raised back in 2016 by production designer Chris Trujillo, is how the Upside Down "came into existence" - something the Duffers and the Writers' Room have always had an answer for, an answer that is written on a 25-page Mythology document dating back to August 4, 2015. While the full context behind the UD's existence is purposely unknown to us, its origin is not really a mystery - something most of people are missing/don't quite understand:
• The Upside Down was inadvertently "created" by Eleven on November 6, 1983 when she touched the Demogorgon in the Void and opened the Mothergate, and it's an exact snapshot of what Hawkins looked like in that moment. It is not frozen in time, per se, but it's never changed since its creation. This has been confirmed for almost 7 years now, and was re-confirmed by Chris Trujillo in 2022 when he explicitly stated that Eleven inadvertently created it:
Chris Trujillo to IndieWire in 2017:
Essentially, at the moment that the rift was formed and [unleashed] the monster, this dark dimension overlaps with the Hawkins’ world and it gets inflected with the vines and the spores,
Chris Trujillo in a S4 spotlight in 2022:
"The moment that the Upside Down was quote-unquote 'created' inadvertently by Eleven, the set dressing and the world of the Upside Down is frozen in that moment. So like when we're in Nancy's room, we'll discover in the Upside Down that Nancy's room is as it was season [one] when we first were introduced to it."
• Essentially, the Upside Down is an "amalgamation" of the "Hawkins world" with Dimension X - the two worlds that El connected via psychic contact, which is why it looks like Hawkins, but infected by Dimension X's flora.
• During that one week where S1 takes place, only one creature was roaming in the newly created Upside Down: The Demogorgon. The same one that El touched in the Void, the one by which the Upside Down's creation is centered around. This has also been confirmed for almost 7 years by Ross Duffer, who mentioned a couple times that there's a reason as to why there was "only one monster"/"why aren't there more monsters" in the Upside Down. The Upside Down, however, does get filled with multiple monsters eventually.
Ross: There’s a lot there we don’t know or understand. Even with the Upside Down, we have a 30-page document that is pretty intricate in terms of what it all means, and where this monster actually came from, and why aren’t there more monsters...
Ross: There’ll always be something a little otherworldly about it, but the plan in that second season is to get into more of those questions, like why there was only one monster and what the Upside Down is exactly...
• Due to being a parallel plane, the Upside Down is naturally connected to the Hawkins world, causing both dimensionS to affect one and another. Any presence in the Upside Down will affect the electromagnetic field in our dimension (e.g. the Byers House's lights flickering when the Demogorgon, Will or Hopper and Joyce were walking through its UD version); sounds from our dimension echo in the Upside Down; a Demogorgon in TUD can trace blood from our dimension; Gates can be opened at any location (in Hawkins); light sources in the Right Side Up create the "Shimmer" in TUD.

Mindscapes,

• The name "Mindscape" is used by the show's production crew to refer to every psychic space we see on the show. Eleven's Black Void, and Vecna's Mind Lair are both considered Mindscapes (Production Designer Chris Trujillo has even referred to the Mind Lair as a "mindscape space.") , and so are all the psychic spaces we've seen Vecna create and put his victims in (e.g. Chrissy being haunted by Vecna in "her house" before being killed was Mindscape projected by Vecna within her mind, the dark cemetery Max was at talking to Billy was a Mindscape within her mind, and so on).
• Project Indigo Numbers (Eleven, One and possibly Ten) have the ability to access/go into their own psychic spaces and through them, they are able to use Remote Viewing and Extrasensory Perception abilities. They can psychically reach out to people, into their minds, psychically project themselves to other locations, including other dimensions.
**• The Void is the manifestation of El's psyche. The Mind Lair is the manifestation of Henry's. Through them, we can see how expanded the boundaries of their minds are.
I should also point out that Mindscapes, including the Void and the Mind Lair, do not exist physically. People have been erroneously referring to the Mind Lair as the Upside Down, but these are completely different things. TUD is a physical, alternate dimension. The Mind Lair is a space within One's mind.**

The Mind Lair,

https://preview.redd.it/l0oxwo8r610d1.jpg?width=2500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5dd9dce5d7f46b5db53c6a7786f1ccc48a468e31
• This is Number One's individual Mindscape. His equivalent of Eleven's Void. It is the manifestation of Henry's current psychology; a psychic space filled with fragmented elements of his memories, including the Creel House, the grandfather clock and even the mason jars with black widows that didn't make it to the show. Chris Trujillo's explanation as to the nature of the Mind Lair described it pretty well:
He describes the lair as a “psychic space. It’s the manifestation of a character’s psychology,” he says. “It was about what space would he create mentally.”
• The Mind Lair is filled with vine towers that form a visually unique environment the production crew refers to as "Spire Forest." The whole floor is covered in a thin layer of blood (similar to how El's Mindscape is covered in a thin layer of water) The center of this psychic space is an island, which is where the fragmented Creel House is at. The vine towers are where Vecna leaves the psychic corpes of his victims hanging like trophies. Originally, Max was supposed to stumble across a "forest of victims" in S4E4 - rotting bodies who were probably Virginia, Alice and all the 16 Project Indigo Numbers he has killed.
• The Mind Lair is also filled with multiple supernatural/otherworldly elements One stumbled across during his life, such as Dimension X's altered state of gravity and the Hellscape's spire moutain-like formations. In the script for S4E9, Dimension X is even compared to the Mind Lair:
Rocky red objects, like the ones from Vecna's mind lair, float like nightmare islands in a scorched sky.
• In The First Shadow, One's mindscape is revealed to have been originally like Eleven's Black Void, suggesting that every Mindscape (of the Indigo Numbers who have and can go into them) is originally black void.
submitted by kauan1983 to StrangerThings [link] [comments]


2024.05.12 19:03 Hakalus120 (1114 Manga Spoilers) Theory about the Red Line based on King of Lightning's (KoL) "Planetary Theory"

I'll try to structure this as best as possible, since there are a lot of small elements interconnected.
First of all, if you haven't watched KoL's video you are gonna think I'm completely crazy. Also, this theory would be a spoiler of that theory itself, which would be a shame because that video blew my mind.
So, KoL gets to the conclusion that the One Piece world is built on the surface of a Dyson's Sphere surrounding a star, a white star specifically. From now on, I'll be using my ideas mixed with his.
The Red Line appeared 800 years ago, that's when Joyboy disappeared and it also was the last remaining piece of the Dyson's Sphere which now effectively blocked 100% of the suns light, figuratively making Joyboy/Nika disappeadie. This would also explain the magnetic shift with all the current flowing through it among many other things
The Red Line, "The serpent soaked in blood" as many theories explain, represents Ouroboros from Norse mythology. So I went to Ouroboros' Wikipedia article (In Spanish, I suppose it says similar things in the English version). It represents, among other things, "To face the elemental forces, mighty and terrifying" "The urge to acquire forbidden knowledge". The original sin, Joyboy & Lili/Imu , Adam & Eve, the tempting SERPENT, the Tree of Knowledge of Ohara, both were somehow expelled from "paradise". Joyboy presumably being a giant (Adam is in Elbaf) and Imu being JUST above Eve. Vegapunk's been talking of grave sins lately.
There's always been Bible references in One Piece, but right now we have a LOT of them at the same time. Kuma's bible, The Great Flood, Adam & Eve, The evil serpent, The tree of knowledge...)
Of course, it also represents the cyclic nature of the universe, which seems to be the case in One Piece world. Quoting the article "The futile, endless effort to stop the cycle" , since it ALWAYS happens again and again, maybe that's why Joyboy couldn't keep up his promise.
"The Ouroboros represents the personification of natural phenomena such as the sun, sea waves... etc that rise up to a certain height to later fall abruptly, restarting the cycle" ---- That's the flood right there.
"The Sun God that raises each morning and later disappears below the horizon"
The article also mentions a manuscript found in Alexandria depicting Ouroboros with the words "ALL IS ONE" next to it. " The symbol is half white half black, representing the duality of everything"
The ones that created the Dyson's Sphere, which I assume, was the Ancient Kingdom, since they were the advanced one, flew too close to the sun.
About the prophecy of destroying Fishmen Island, Luffy (Nika) is gonna break the Red Line (At least, the part where Mariejois is, which is just above Fishmen Island) SO HE CAN BE FREE, liberating at least part of his light into space, bringing a new DAWN.
Edit: I can expand this further later mixing it with KoL's theory.
submitted by Hakalus120 to OnePiece [link] [comments]


2024.05.12 15:29 saime9hana The Education of Yuri by Jerry Pinto was a breath of fresh air!

I have grown up reading foreign authors (I'm Indian) for the most part. I do love a good mythological fiction by Chitra Banerjee, but books by most Indian authors like Chethan Bhagat feel a tad bit fake to me. I have nothing against him, I just cant place my finger what exactly it is about the writing that doens't resonate with me.
I expected to feel same about this book, but I was so glad to be wrong. Even the blurb gave me non-fiction vibes, so it was really surprising when I started reading. The writing style was very engaging, and kept my interested in finding out what happens next. I am not generally a huge fan of slow-paced books so I did find it a little tedious in the beginning, but the book made up for it in more ways than one!
The banter between friends, intelligent conversations, debates... I just couldn't get enough of these things. And of course, it was refreshing to see 'Indian slang' :D
So many thought-provoking quotes were littered throughout the book -- although I was a little skeptical that 15-17 year-olds would have these thoughts. Reading such conversations made me feel quite undereducated tbh. But then again, I think that back then there was no social media, TV was rare, and perhaps thats why kids consumed a lot of rich content in the form of books. Plus it was a proper liberal arts college, so maybe it is quite justifiable.
For a book set in India in the 1980s, I love the openness with which sex and masturbation was discussed. I sure was a *little* grossed out reading some parts, but I still thought it was important to describe these incidents, for we would have never fully understood the protagonist without them. Also, hearing what exactly went on his mind during those times made me realise how confusing it must be for young men, just past puberty, still exploring their sexual preferences.... not understanding why they feel what they feel, and not being able to decide what is right and what isn't... We are taught to treat male desire as vile, vulgar and disgusting, but the way the author put it across, we almost feel pity for the boy.
The protagonist was raised by his uncle who was a priest, and his parenting was so ideal! I longed for a person like that in my life. The book also talks about many systemic flaws -- so many things were criticized by the characters in the book, small things included (like how problematic it is to say "izzat loot liya" while talking of rape) and I liked these bits. I'm also glad the book>! wasn't entirely a happy ending -- Yuri embarks on a journey to change some of these things in the system and help people, so a lot is left to our imagination :)!<
I hadn't heard of Jerry Pinto before I read this book, and I'm so glad I decided to read it. Highly recommend!
P.S. I have heard that his other work, "Em and the Big Hoom" is much better, so if you've already read that, your expectations may not be met!
submitted by saime9hana to books [link] [comments]


2024.05.12 15:18 saime9hana The Education of Yuri by Jerry Pinto was a breath of fresh air!

I have grown up reading foreign authors for the most part. I do love a good mythological fiction by Chitra Banerjee, but books by most Indian authors like Chethan Bhagat feel a tad bit fake to me. I have nothing against him, I just cant place my finger what exactly it is about the writing that doens't resonate with me.
I expected to feel same about this book, but I was so glad to be wrong. Even the blurb gave me non-fiction vibes, so it was really surprising when I started reading. The writing style was very engaging, and kept my interested in finding out what happens next. I am not generally a huge fan of slow-paced books so I did find it a little tedious in the beginning, but the book made up for it in more ways than one!
The banter between friends, intelligent conversations, debates... I just couldn't get enough of these things. And of course, it was refreshing to see 'Indian slang' :D
So many thought-provoking quotes were littered throughout the book -- although I was a little skeptical that 15-17 year-olds would have these thoughts. Reading such conversations made me feel quite undereducated tbh. But then again, I think that back then there was no social media, TV was rare, and perhaps thats why kids consumed a lot of rich content in the form of books. Plus it was a proper liberal arts college, so maybe it is quite justifiable.
For a book set in India in the 1980s, I love the openness with which sex and masturbation was discussed. I sure was a *little* grossed out reading some parts, but I still thought it was important to describe these incidents, for we would have never fully understood the protagonist without them. Also, hearing what exactly went on his mind during those times made me realise how confusing it must be for young men, just past puberty, still exploring their sexual preferences.... not understanding why they feel what they feel, and not being able to decide what is right and what isn't... We are taught to treat male desire as vile, vulgar and disgusting, but the way the author put it across, we almost feel pity for the boy.
The protagonist was raised by his uncle who was a priest, and his parenting was so ideal! I longed for a person like that in my life. The book also talks about many systemic flaws -- so many things were criticized by the characters in the book, small things included (like how problematic it is to say "izzat loot liya" while talking of rape) and I liked these bits. I'm also glad the book wasn't entire a happy ending -- Yuri embarks on a journey to change some of these things in the system and help people, so a lot is left to our imagination :)
I hadn't heard of Jerry Pinto before I read this book, and I'm so glad I decided to read it. Highly recommend!
P.S. I have heard that his other work, "Em and the Big Hoom" is much better, so if you've already read that, your expectations may not be met!
submitted by saime9hana to Indianbooks [link] [comments]


2024.05.12 13:12 interventionalhealer Trump and 9/11? A counter theory to the rise of MAGA.

For the sake of transparency, I am not the architect of the following discoveries, and am just helping to forward their message and clean it up. Copywrite of the following work belongs to no one and everyone is not only welcome to share these findings as if they were their own, but openly encouraged to do so.
Introduction
If you think you know anything about MAGA. Trust me, you know nothing. Not even his most devout followers or haters will have considered the following. And for the sake of our democracy and way of life, I hope people read this.
This work may very well help to shift the narrative on Trump in a meaningful and foundational way, but I don't want this work exacerbate any feelings of ill will to MAGA members, for they have been prey to possibly one of the largest con jobs our world has ever seen, especially without the help of this counternarrative.
Snippet From My Thesis On MAGA
As I work on tidying up the master file with the helpful dms I got, allow me to post just the most contentious part of it below, now that it’s able to stand on its own.
MAGA didn’t begin in 2015. I argue it began in 2001 on 9/11, while also harnessing and funneling decades of anti-government resentment till many Americans would openly call for a “wrecking ball” figure to help “drain the swamp.”

A Key Fueling Factor To American Outrage- Inflation
Many elements contributed to growing American anger that would later contribute to MAGA, this is a snippet from the larger work.
Rising Cost of Living
o In 1950, the Consumer Price Index (CPI) was 24.1. By 2000, it had risen to 168 (a 597% increase), and by 2023, it had reached 304.7, a 1163% increase from 1950.
o Housing prices saw a drastic rise overtime, with the median home price increasing from $7,354 in 1950 to $388,700 in 2023, a staggering 5185% increase.
o While rising rent costs can contribute to overall inflation and cost of living, even the left has largely failed to address how exponentially increasing real estate prices impact the cost of living. This omission has made many other conspiracy theories seem more plausible in its wake.
o If we don’t find real solutions for real estate that also aren’t extreme, then society will feel more and more pressure to accept “unreasonable solutions” like Trump, even though he’s the last person on earth who could solve it, considering his business acumen and history.
MAGA Dynamics and Blind Devotion
In 2016, it wasn't just the left calling the MAGA movement a cult. Trump famously said, "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters." Even the left failed to grasp the gravity of this statement. As someone who nearly died in a deadly cult and based on my research, I don't know of a single cult where the founder could openly commit murder without losing members. Trump didn't just believe he'd created one of the largest cults ever; he believed he'd created the most fanatical. Let's hope his followers prove him wrong by showing a willingness to criticize him, regardless of their vote.

The MAGA Question
Instead of challenging MAGA supporters on fallacious beliefs, ask them this question to see if they’re at least able to see a world where Trump isn’t a biblical King: "If Trump admitted he was behind 9/11 and used resulting insurance money and donations from hostile governments to create false “grass root” campaigns. And did it all in a way to make it seem like others committed his own atrocities. And that he intended to destroy America in every way if he got elected, would you still vote for him?"

Yet even then, getting through to a MAGA supporter inevitably refers to 9/11 “research” out there when they realize individual positions are usually fallacious. This quagmire me decide to investigate this tragedy, to see if there was a more plausible counter theory. Honestly, the more I looked the more surprised I became. Here are my findings that are but a snippet of my full thesis on MAGA.

9/11 Conspiracy Theories and MAGA
Conspiracy Theories and Credibility:
o First off, conspiracy theories should involve some effort to verify narratives, rather than just repeating claims across multiple sources that mistake themselves as evidence; like a bunch of people who repeat “bob farted” across multiple websites may see that as evidence, when in fact, it was Sean. Sorry Sean.

Early Origins of MAGA:
o Although some believe MAGA began in 2015, its roots lie as early as the 1980s with Rush Limbaugh and later became "serious" on 9/11.
o 9/11 conspiracy theories claim controlled demolitions were used, but the lack of any cellphone recordings of explosions weakens this theory.

Suspicious Factors:
o The official narrative involving chaotic jet fuel leading to a straight fall seemed questionable.
o The collapse of a third building (WTC 7), which wasn’t directly hit, fueled suspicions.
o Airline stocks were heavily shorted before the attacks, raising concerns about insider trading. Harvey Pitt, Republican SEC Chairman at the time, investigated this and claimed there was nothing amiss, but was criticized for later crimes and forced to resign.
o It’s also suspicious that in Trumps 2000 book “The America We Deserve” that he stated, “I really am convinced we’re in danger of the sort of terrorist attacks that will make the [1993] bombing of the Trade Center look like kids playing with firecrackers. No sensible analyst rejects this possibility, and plenty of them, like me, are not wondering if but when it will happen*.”*
§ Yet democrats would largely miss this point entirely and obsess over his false claim that he called for Bin Laden to be killed, when he had not. Somehow conspiracy theorists would find this ‘cool’ rather than suspicious.
CNN Fact Check Donald Trump Osama Bin Laden Book Claim

Reports and Simplified Narratives:
o FEMA's 2002 report and NIST's 2005 report provided technical explanations of the tower collapses.
o However, the Port Authority Chairman stuck to the oversimplified narrative that "jet fuel melted steel beams," even though he knew this was a half-truth, as detailed in the next section, fueling anti-government conspiracies. The question is why.

Potential Impact:
o 9/11 conspiracy theories sowed distrust in the government, which may have been one of the attackers' objectives. Anyone that heavily profited from this tragedy, and helped further those objects, should be questioned.
o The ‘Loose Change’ “documentary” pointed out suspicious parts of the story, but failed to give any clear claims as to who was purportedly behind it. It also failed to note the Twin Towers titanic design flaw that could result in a straight fall. Even the 2015 version of this film fails to mention nearly all of the known facts in this report.
o The Director of that film later states:
“I DON’T THINK WE’D HAVE PRESIDENT TRUMP IF IT WEREN’T FOR 9/11”
“9/11 created a culture of fear, of xenophobia, this sense of entitlement and everything we’ve seen. Warrantless wire-tapping, Guantanamo Bay, everything that’s happened led us to this point, we wouldn’t be here without 9/11. They want to kick out all the Mexicans and Muslims because of this culture of fear and bigotry and xenophobia that directly led to the election of fucking Donald Trump. [laughing] That’s our world now! We had Reagan before, and Governor Schwarzenegger. But President Donald Trump? It’s just weird. Everything is just weird.”
Theoutline Reflecting On Loose Change
o While the director was in the right to ask questions, he failed to ask the most obvious ones.
o However, his lead “researcher,” Jason Bermas, would turn out to be a full blown MAGA wingnut.
Patriot Jason Bermas
o Anyone that would benefit politically and financially from 9/11 should be fully investigated.
Further Reading:
Harvey Pitt - Wikipedia
Politifact How 911 Attacks Helped Shape Modern Misinformation
It will never be possible to defeat MAGA followers “logically” with people who believed his parties rhetoric “that 9/11 was an inside job.”

I say… what if those Republican leaders were self reporting?
What if Trump followers have been rallying behind the very man responsible for its orchestration?

The Twin Towers and Larry Silverstein
Architectural Pitfalls of the Twin Towers:
· The Twin Towers had unique architectural flaws due to the excessive heavy load on their exoskeletons to allow for more floor and leasing space, which greatly contributed to their straight collapse after the 9/11 attacks. This was the first and last skyscraper made in this way.
· For anyone who said that “any other building would have fallen sideways,” you were right, though perhaps not entirely how you may have imagined. A "Coke Can" analogy shows how a similar weakened structure can result in a straight fall, contrary to conspiracy theories claiming controlled demolitions. This isn't something I'm asking you to take for granted, or to read from media sources you don’t trust. This is something you can verify on your own, in person, in real time, in reality.
· However Trump, despite being close friends with Silverstein as we’ll cover later, claimed "It wasn’t architectural defects, you know, the World Trade Center was always known as a very, very strong building” per the attached PolitiFact article.
· Supporting Article:
Engineering Experts Explain the Collapse of the Twin Towers
Politifact Donald Trumps 911 Speculation

Larry Silverstein, The Leasor Of The Twin Towers:
· Nearly went bankrupt after losing his main tenant Drexel Burnham in 1980 after he built tower 7 with him in mind.
· I don't know how many of us understand the level of desperation a situation like this can cause in someone and how many potential crimes it can easily push them towards.
· He is known for then saying, “…looking up at the twin towers and thinking, my building is huge, but it is made diminutive by the twin towers. So I said to myself, wouldn't it be incredible someday to own those?" That's not the statement of a sane person who nearly went bankrupt, and if anything, hints towards jealousy.
· He managed to secure Salomon Brothers two years later, which later paid $300 million in securities fraud penalties casting suspicion over the entities who saved Silverstein, in addition to their overall plans for the future.
· How he would become able to outbid everyone else in 2001, for the right to lease the twin towers, would become a mystery we will untangle later.
Further Reading
Manhattan Institute – Silverstein On Ground Zero
Justice Department: Salomon Brothers Securities Fraud

Trump and Real Estate Connections
Historical Context and Redevelopment Plans:
· A redevelopment plan commenced in the 1990s by Gov. Pataki and Mayor Giuliani, spurred a commercial revival in downtown Manhattan, making the World Trade Center prime property. Pataki would go on to criticize trump, while the other would prove to be one of this wildest, if not craziest, supporters to truly fanatical degrees.
Further Reading:
Manhattan Institute: Rebuilding Ground Zero
· Tom Leppert was the CEO of Turner construction which right wing conspiracy theorists claimed helped ensure the towers would fall straight down. He also became part of Trumps transition team. While there’s no evidence of explosives being used, tampering with the exoskeleton and weaking the relatively thin central column ahead of time are theoretically plausible.
Huffpost Donald Trump Transition Team
Wikipedia Tom Leppert

The bidding for the World Trade Center lease involved only a few major real estate firms as allowed by the Port Authority Chairman. Below are the allowed bidders and their estimated worth at the time included:

· Donald J. Trump’s Organization:
o Worth around $1.5 billion in 1996 after multiple bankruptcies. Confirmed only by Forbes magazine in 2005.
· Tishman Speyer:
o Valued at approximately $1.8 billion in 2000, would soon face ‘tenant issues’ with many scrupulous legal claims against them.
· Gale & Wentworth:
o Worth a few million.
· Mortimer Zuckerman’s Boston Properties:
o Mortimer Zuckerman alone was worth around $2 billion.
· The Rouse Company:
o Mainly a shopping mall operator.
· Brookfield Properties:
o A Canadian firm valued at over $20 billion in 2000.
· Vornado Realty Trust:
o Worth an estimated $2-3 billion. Had the highest bid, but was unexpectedly outed by the Port Authority Chairman, paving the way for Silverstein’s win. CEO of Vornado Trust, Steven Roth would later do many deals with Trump in 2005 and beyond.
· Larry Silverstein:
o As mentioned, was nearly bankrupt in the 1980s, and was mysteriously awarded the right to lease the World Trade Center contract at $3.2 billion, twice the original asking price of 1.2 Billion. It would still be owned by the Port authority of NY and NJ, he would just own the rights to lease it.
o Port Authority Chairman, Lewis Eisenberg, made this unexplained decision, who also later became Trumps lead fundraiser in 2015.
o After putting down only $125 million, as per the contract, Silverstein would be getting back $100 million just 6 weeks after his bid and with an uncommon terrorist insurance addition. His exaggerated bid and insurance contract would also greatly inflate the amount of money he could get from an insurance claim. If the winning bid was 1.5 billion, the insurance payout would also have been much less.
o In real estate, its quite rare for a prudent investor to bid twice the asking price, as demonstrated by the other companies that backed out, of which I find no connections to Trump.
o If anyone had known about 9/11 ahead of time, like Trump claims he did, it would become drastically easier to outbid all competitors, knowing that for pennies on the dollar, you would be getting much more back.

Further Reading:
NY Times Article on World Trade Center Deal
Wikipedia on Lewis Eisenberg
Patch On Lew Eisenberg Leading Trump Fundraising
NY Times Article Silverstein Gets Most Of His Money Back

Giuliani’s Gangster Acts
Arguably, if the above points are what they objectively appear to be, that would be a bad thing. You’d think that would be enough. However, Guliani would say “hold my beer’ to those sentiments.

1. Outdated Equipment for First Responders:
· Due to Giuliani’s inadequate leadership, first responders used old equipment that failed to warn them to evacuate the towers. Which contributed to their deaths while they searched for survivors.
NY Times Article: Giuliani’s Preparedness on 9/11
2. Obstructed Recovery Efforts:
· Giuliani delayed proper search and rescue operations for days, possibly costing lives of citizens and first responders who didn’t know they needed to leave.
· 20 Years later he would claim that some of Bidens actions were so reckless that… “It would be as if I got down to ground zero and said take out the firefighters, all you civilians see if you can get yourselves out.” Self report?
NBC News Report: Giuliani’s Role in Recovery
NY1: Giuliani Reflects on 9/11 Anniversary
3. Twin Towers Fund and Privatization:
· Giuliani privatized the Twin Towers relief funds, making them unauditable.
NY Times Article on Privatization
NY Post Article: Giuliani and Twin Towers Fund
4. Survivors Threaten To SUE Guliani For Relief Funds
· Even after privatizing the twin towers fund, Giuliani would make it incredibly difficult for the victims to receive their fair share. Requiring many of them to spend unnecessary money on advisors and consultants.
· Even with their legal pressure, he only agreed to “give the remaining 100 million to victims,” out of 170 million, if he could first put the money into the bank account of a charity in which he controlled.
· From the attached article: “But Harold Schaitberger, president of the International Association of Fire Fighters, said that he remained adamantly opposed to any transfer of funds to Mr. Giuliani's charity.
He also objected to Mr. Giuliani's continued control over even the $15 million in his private charity. Mr. Giuliani, he charged, gives every indication of using the Twin Towers Fund to maintain a staff of loyal supporters and to advance his political aspirations.
'The concern that politics will infiltrate the fund becomes even more apparent when one reviews the list of the mayor's former political appointees who are assuming senior staff positions or serving on the fund's board of directors,'' he wrote in a letter on Monday to Eliot L. Spitzer, the state attorney general.”
NY Times Article On Guliani Pressed To Disperse Twin Tower Funds
· However, there is no evidence of Giuliani making good on this promise.
· There are honestly no words for this. All associates of Guliani should be investigated.
5. Attempted Election Cancellation in 2001:
· Giuliani tried to cancel the 2001 election to stay mayor longer. He even considered removing term limits with Governor Pataki’s support. Similar to how Trump has “joked” about increasing his own term limits.
Business Insider: Giuliani and Pataki’s Attempt to Cancel Elections
Esquire Trump Joke Third Term
6. Motive
· In 2000, Guliani unfortunately got prostate cancer. We have to be willing to ask if this was a motive for his corrupt acts.
SurvivorNet: Giuliani’s Cancer


Silverstein’s Unscrupulous Greed
1. Initial Settlement Demands and Profit Claims:
· Despite only having been out for $25 million, Silverstein initially sought nearly $8 BILLION in insurance settlements and argued for "loss of revenue from those buildings," which is quite an uncompassionate claim considering how many lost their lives. Talk about a prime example of the working and lower classes making sacrifices while rich elites complain they didn’t profit enough from the same tragedy.
2. Rebuilding Contributions and Insurance Payout:
· Despite the fact that he only owned the leasing rights to the twin towers, ‘Silverstein Properties’ received up to $4 billion from insurance payouts, instead of the Port Authority, which would be customary as the owner.
· While it's assumed that most of that money went to rebuilding, this isn't actually known or proven. It would be different if he had a separate insurance policy that was not connected to the rebuilding of the towers, with different monies going to the Port Authority to rebuild. This was not the case.
History.com: Rebuilding of Ground Zero
· He additionally refused to return the rights of Building 1 to the Port Authority until he secured additional funds from an $8 billion state fund. Talk about heartless.
Wikipedia: Larry Silverstein
· Various entities would contribute a total of $20 billion to rebuild all six damaged or destroyed towers, including four towers leased by Silverstein and two others he hadn't. This makes it unlikely that he had to go out of pocket with his 4 Billion.
3. Estimated Net Worth:
· While earlier records of Silverstein's net worth are unavailable, aside from his near bankruptcy in 1980, he is currently estimated to be worth around $1 billion.
Forbes Profile: Larry Silverstein

Silverstein’s Controversial Alignment with Trump
Larry Silverstein's connections and public persona have often been scrutinized. This scrutiny became particularly relevant in 2015 when he publicly displayed his support for Donald Trump:
Watch Silverstein Discuss Trump
CNN Trump On 2020 Election

The Man Who Boasted
When most people witness a tragedy, especially of this size, it takes time for their brains to comprehend what happened, it takes even more time to process it. Thus, anyone who was able to brag about their own assets hours after this tragedy on a radio show, is at least worthy of Investigation, especially if this very event helped reshape a misinformation landscape in which he would thrive as its King.
Politifact – How 911 Attacks Helped Shape Modern Misinformation

· Insensitive Boasts About Building Height:
o Trump also boasted that with the fall of the Twin Towers, his building became the tallest in Manhattan—an inaccurate and insensitive claim given the context.
Independent 9 11 Trump Tallest Building
· Early Claims and Revisions:
o Shortly after 9/11, Donald Trump claimed he saw the second plane hit the towers from his Manhattan apartment. He also made an unfounded claim that he saw thousands of Muslims in New Jersey cheering, a statement that has been widely debunked. Despite varying explanations and suggesting that he saw it on an untraceable video that was “widely covered,” these claims helped fueled significant conspiracy theories. If anything, this was a self-report.
o Snopes: Trump Claims Muslims Cheered
o FactCheck.org: Trump’s Revised 9/11 Claim
· Visit to Ground Zero:
o A week after the attacks, Trump visited Ground Zero and stated that although he was present, he wouldn’t consider himself a first responder. This attempt at humility struck many as morbidly insensitive, considering the true heroism displayed by actual first responders.
ABC News: Trump Shares New Details About Morning of 9/11

Legacy of Suspicion:
These actions paint Trump as one of the more suspicious figures post-9/11, who may have used the tragedy for personal and political gain. His connections with figures like Larry Silverstein and Lewis Eisenberg, the Port Authority chairman, hint at deep financial interests potentially influenced by the 9/11 aftermath. Meanwhile, survivors and first responders faced challenges in securing support, highlighting the disparities between their experiences and the political maneuvers at play. Again morbidly juxtaposing the struggles of the poor and working class versus elite swamp members such as Trump and his ilk.

While being, arguably, one of the more suspicious Americans of potentially “being an insider," Trump would go on to cast doubt everywhere else with his new holier than thou rhetoric and hints and claims that “it was an inside job” for the next 15 years.

What if he was speaking from personal experience.

The Deepfake Dilemma
Now in a world where Trump's followers already discount reality, the emergence of AI-generated deepfakes threatens to further distort the truth. This technology could transform legal standards of evidence, making it easy to dismiss genuine evidence against the right as fabricated, while baseless accusations against the left might be accepted as the long-awaited proof.

The Potential Escalation of MAGA Actions
Given the willingness of MAGA supporters to storm the Capitol on January 6th, bolstered by Trump's incendiary rhetoric, the potential for escalation is alarming. The advent of fabricated images and videos could present unprecedented national security threats.

Trump's Incendiary Rhetoric on January 6th
Trump's speech on January 6th was a clear incitement, as he urged his followers to "fight like hell" to "stop the steal," despite admitting DURING THE SPEECH that there was no evidence of the massive electoral fraud he claimed. As well as his lawyers laughable court “arguments.”
“...while there is no evidence to prove any wrongdoing…”
Npr.Org Read Trumps Jan 6 Speech
LawAndCrime Come On Now

This speech, coupled with his undermining of constitutional processes, underscores the risks and intentional deceit of his rhetoric. Too bad Republicans senators and our Supreme Court have either claimed he was above the law, or continue to postpone his court dates till after elections. A wild position when treason is on the table. Did that dude commit treason that claims he wants to become a dictator? I dunno, lets let him potentially get elected and then find out!

Elon Musk's Political Shift
Elon was once very much a leftist, unfortunately in more and more far left “activists” continue to attack him endlessly for not agreeing with them on their own singular issues and perspectives. To them I say congratulations, you successfully pushed the most powerful man on earth into the far right. Great job. Great job.
Elon Musk's journey from a liberal supporter to a figure embraced by the far right highlights the volatile nature of political affiliations in today's polarized environment. His actions since acquiring Twitter—such as promoting unfounded conspiracy theories and making high-profile firings—suggest a departure from his initial free speech advocacy.
Especially when considering he fired Don Lemon from his platform for an interview he found offensive. Canceling opinions you find offensive isn’t free speech, it’s literally the opposite. I’m sure many people were offended by the examples below. What about them?
Far Right Support Examples: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

The Need for a Critical Approach
Supporters of Trump should critically evaluate why he did not pardon the January 6th insurrectionists during his term, despite using them as political leverage now. This pattern of using allies until they are no longer useful is evident throughout his political and personal dealings.
What better example could there possibly be as to what trump truly thinks of his supporters, how sacrificial he sees them as part of his endless narratives, then his refusal and failure to pardon January 6th insurrectionists while still in office?
Of course, anyone “just on the grass” or outside the building should only get a day in jail at most, however people that barged inside the capital should naturally get much more.
And while trump refused to pardon those people before, he now calls them “hostages” and is using them as political bait to a truly wild degree. It's very likely he will make good on this promise to further embolden the narrative that “Democrats are trying to take you down and only I can save you.”
His supporters need to seriously ask, “Why didn’t he pardon us before?”
Also, remember when he claimed he would pay legal fees for supporters that were violent at his rallies, but then seemed to falter and change his mind. Much like how Amber Heard donated her money, “by pledging it.”
List of allies he was quick to discard or dump. And let's face it, all of these people have done more for him than the average MAGA supporter. The only person he cares about is himself.
Trump claims that Mike Pence, the man he vetted more than anyone else, “has gone to the dark side.”
Trump seems to have supported the chants to “Hang Mike Pense,” at least in jest? We hope? There are also no links of him condemning them. Yet admittedly this one point doesn’t have hard evidence like a recording or video as far as I know, it certainly fits his brand.
Mike Flynn, a Trump appointee, later testifies against him.
Trump admits Flynn lied on his behalf, accidentally testifying against him, but does pardon him. As long as you’re colluding with Russia you’re ok it seems?

The Future Under Trump's Influence
Trump's rhetoric about overriding constitutional norms to address what he calls "massive fraud" hints at authoritarian aspirations. His praise for dictators and divisive language further aligns with dangerous historical precedents.
Important Articles:
How a second trump term could end us democracy.” -commondreams
Ask the expert: What a 2nd Trump term could mean for democracy and advancing policy.” - Msu Today
Judgement Day” for political opponents.

To predict the future lets base it on known facts:
Apparently, he will help attack our constitution like he may have with the Twin Towers.
“A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.”
Stated he intended to be a Dictator on day one, but then promises it will be just for a day. Is that how that works? Or is it “Once you go Dictator you don’t go back?”
Praising dictators, referring to immigrants as vermin etc, akin to Hitlers rhetoric against “blood mixing.”
More fraudulent use of lawyers and courts that gets everyone else in trouble but him, with them arguing he's above the law. This further shows how much he will consistently use people for his own ends and then dump them when they're no longer of use.
Warning from republicans and notes on ass kissing. As well as being generally unfit for office.
If you want help from Trump you better kiss his ***
Trumps says he kept Omarosa just because she said nice things about him, while defaming her
DeSantis: "You can be the most worthless Republican in America, but if you kiss the ring, he’ll say you’re wonderful."
Thehill Trump Views People Who Kiss His A As Weak.
And if you dare to speak out against trump, you better kiss his ****
Politico Graham Breaks With Trump On Abortion
WashingtonPost Trump Graham Abortion
News Yahoo 30 More Republicans Denounce Donald Trump Unqualified President
Hot take, if he’s elected president America, and the world, is frankly fucked.

Predicting MAGA 2024 And Beyond
Naturally there are endless possibilities of what MAGA and dictators around the world decide to do this year and into the future. I believe that the one thing that insinuates when it's time for their next evil actions is dictated by their standings in the polls or when a fellow dictator needs a little more political pressure from war torn inflated oil prices etc.
Dictators Unite
While writing my thesis, I speculated that dictators globally were uniting, finding mutual benefits in their governance and deceitful tactics. This theory is increasingly recognized as these autocrats appear to be forming a coalition, undermining peaceful unity efforts through conspiracy theories to preserve their power.
Unherd How Autocrats Unite
The True Nature of MAGA
MAGA was never genuinely about speaking truth to power or restoring America's glory. It has been an elaborate scheme funded by immense wealth, perpetuating anti-American sentiments through fabricated grassroots movements by domestic and foreign actors. This movement has primarily enriched a select few power-hungry dictators and may have been responsible for some of our most horrific moments in history in the past and acts yet to come.
Trump and MAGA
While 'MAGA' predates Trump, he conveniently stepped into a role long in the making. Despite occasional deviations from the MAGA ideology, such as promoting vaccines to emphatic boos, Trump has largely embodied its principles. The real architects of MAGA, however, are likely disillusioned with his unpredictable attacks, which contradict their broader agenda of absolute power.
Nbc News Donald Trump Booed
Trump as a Martyr
Regardless of election outcomes, Trump is poised to claim interference. His rhetoric and the devout belief of his followers in his divine anointment could lead to his martyrdom, especially given his age and the vulnerabilities it brings. This martyrdom could solidify his legacy while serving the interests of MAGA strategists who find him increasingly burdensome even if he “wins.”
Factcheck Trumps Bogus Voter Fraud Claims
La Times Trump Democrats Effort Presidential Ballot
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2024.05.12 13:11 interventionalhealer Trump and 9/11? A counter theory to the rise of MAGA.

u/neodestiny and friends.
Introduction
If you think you know anything about MAGA. Trust me, you know nothing. Not even his most devout followers or haters will have considered the following. And for the sake of our democracy and way of life, I hope people read this.
This work may very well help to shift the narrative on Trump in a meaningful and foundational way, but I don't want this work exacerbate any feelings of ill will to MAGA members, for they have been prey to possibly one of the largest con jobs our world has ever seen, especially without the help of this counternarrative.
Snippet From My Thesis On MAGA
As I work on tidying up the master file with the helpful dms I got, allow me to post just the most contentious part of it below, now that it’s able to stand on its own.
MAGA didn’t begin in 2015. I argue it began in 2001 on 9/11, while also harnessing and funneling decades of anti-government resentment till many Americans would openly call for a “wrecking ball” figure to help “drain the swamp.”
This work may very well help to shift the narrative on Trump in a meaningful and foundational way, but I don't want this work exacerbate any feelings of ill will to MAGA members, for they have been prey to possibly one of the largest con jobs our world has ever seen, especially without the help of this counternarrative.
A Key Fueling Factor To American Outrage- Inflation
Many elements contributed to growing American anger that would later contribute to MAGA, this is a snippet from the larger work.
Rising Cost of Living
o In 1950, the Consumer Price Index (CPI) was 24.1. By 2000, it had risen to 168 (a 597% increase), and by 2023, it had reached 304.7, a 1163% increase from 1950.
o Housing prices saw a drastic rise overtime, with the median home price increasing from $7,354 in 1950 to $388,700 in 2023, a staggering 5185% increase.
o While rising rent costs can contribute to overall inflation and cost of living, even the left has largely failed to address how exponentially increasing real estate prices impact the cost of living. This omission has made many other conspiracy theories seem more plausible in its wake.
o If we don’t find real solutions for real estate that also aren’t extreme, then society will feel more and more pressure to accept “unreasonable solutions” like Trump, even though he’s the last person on earth who could solve it, considering his business acumen and history.
MAGA Dynamics and Blind Devotion
In 2016, it wasn't just the left calling the MAGA movement a cult. Trump famously said, "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters." Even the left failed to grasp the gravity of this statement. As someone who nearly died in a deadly cult and based on my research, I don't know of a single cult where the founder could openly commit murder without losing members. Trump didn't just believe he'd created one of the largest cults ever; he believed he'd created the most fanatical. Let's hope his followers prove him wrong by showing a willingness to criticize him, regardless of their vote.

The MAGA Question
Instead of challenging MAGA supporters on fallacious beliefs, ask them this question to see if they’re at least able to see a world where Trump isn’t a biblical King: "If Trump admitted he was behind 9/11 and used resulting insurance money and donations from hostile governments to create false “grass root” campaigns. And did it all in a way to make it seem like others committed his own atrocities. And that he intended to destroy America in every way if he got elected, would you still vote for him?"

Yet even then, getting through to a MAGA supporter inevitably refers to 9/11 “research” out there when they realize individual positions are usually fallacious. This quagmire me decide to investigate this tragedy, to see if there was a more plausible counter theory. Honestly, the more I looked the more surprised I became. Here are my findings that are but a snippet of my full thesis on MAGA.

9/11 Conspiracy Theories and MAGA
Conspiracy Theories and Credibility:
o First off, conspiracy theories should involve some effort to verify narratives, rather than just repeating claims across multiple sources that mistake themselves as evidence; like a bunch of people who repeat “bob farted” across multiple websites may see that as evidence, when in fact, it was Sean. Sorry Sean.

Early Origins of MAGA:
o Although some believe MAGA began in 2015, its roots lie as early as the 1980s with Rush Limbaugh and later became "serious" on 9/11.
o 9/11 conspiracy theories claim controlled demolitions were used, but the lack of any cellphone recordings of explosions weakens this theory.

Suspicious Factors:
o The official narrative involving chaotic jet fuel leading to a straight fall seemed questionable.
o The collapse of a third building (WTC 7), which wasn’t directly hit, fueled suspicions.
o Airline stocks were heavily shorted before the attacks, raising concerns about insider trading. Harvey Pitt, Republican SEC Chairman at the time, investigated this and claimed there was nothing amiss, but was criticized for later crimes and forced to resign.
o It’s also suspicious that in Trumps 2000 book “The America We Deserve” that he stated, “I really am convinced we’re in danger of the sort of terrorist attacks that will make the [1993] bombing of the Trade Center look like kids playing with firecrackers. No sensible analyst rejects this possibility, and plenty of them, like me, are not wondering if but when it will happen*.”*
§ Yet democrats would largely miss this point entirely and obsess over his false claim that he called for Bin Laden to be killed, when he had not. Somehow conspiracy theorists would find this ‘cool’ rather than suspicious.
CNN Fact Check Donald Trump Osama Bin Laden Book Claim

Reports and Simplified Narratives:
o FEMA's 2002 report and NIST's 2005 report provided technical explanations of the tower collapses.
o However, the Port Authority Chairman stuck to the oversimplified narrative that "jet fuel melted steel beams," even though he knew this was a half-truth, as detailed in the next section, fueling anti-government conspiracies. The question is why.

Potential Impact:
o 9/11 conspiracy theories sowed distrust in the government, which may have been one of the attackers' objectives. Anyone that heavily profited from this tragedy, and helped further those objects, should be questioned.
o The ‘Loose Change’ “documentary” pointed out suspicious parts of the story, but failed to give any clear claims as to who was purportedly behind it. It also failed to note the Twin Towers titanic design flaw that could result in a straight fall. Even the 2015 version of this film fails to mention nearly all of the known facts in this report.
o The Director of that film later states:
“I DON’T THINK WE’D HAVE PRESIDENT TRUMP IF IT WEREN’T FOR 9/11”
“9/11 created a culture of fear, of xenophobia, this sense of entitlement and everything we’ve seen. Warrantless wire-tapping, Guantanamo Bay, everything that’s happened led us to this point, we wouldn’t be here without 9/11. They want to kick out all the Mexicans and Muslims because of this culture of fear and bigotry and xenophobia that directly led to the election of fucking Donald Trump. [laughing] That’s our world now! We had Reagan before, and Governor Schwarzenegger. But President Donald Trump? It’s just weird. Everything is just weird.”
Theoutline Reflecting On Loose Change
o While the director was in the right to ask questions, he failed to ask the most obvious ones.
o However, his lead “researcher,” Jason Bermas, would turn out to be a full blown MAGA wingnut.
Patriot Jason Bermas
o Anyone that would benefit politically and financially from 9/11 should be fully investigated.
Further Reading:
Harvey Pitt - Wikipedia
Politifact How 911 Attacks Helped Shape Modern Misinformation
It will never be possible to defeat MAGA followers “logically” with people who believed his parties rhetoric “that 9/11 was an inside job.”

I say… what if those Republican leaders were self reporting?
What if Trump followers have been rallying behind the very man responsible for its orchestration?

The Twin Towers and Larry Silverstein
Architectural Pitfalls of the Twin Towers:
· The Twin Towers had unique architectural flaws due to the excessive heavy load on their exoskeletons to allow for more floor and leasing space, which greatly contributed to their straight collapse after the 9/11 attacks. This was the first and last skyscraper made in this way.
· For anyone who said that “any other building would have fallen sideways,” you were right, though perhaps not entirely how you may have imagined. A "Coke Can" analogy shows how a similar weakened structure can result in a straight fall, contrary to conspiracy theories claiming controlled demolitions. This isn't something I'm asking you to take for granted, or to read from media sources you don’t trust. This is something you can verify on your own, in person, in real time, in reality.
· However Trump, despite being close friends with Silverstein as we’ll cover later, claimed "It wasn’t architectural defects, you know, the World Trade Center was always known as a very, very strong building” per the attached PolitiFact article.
· Supporting Article:
Engineering Experts Explain the Collapse of the Twin Towers
Politifact Donald Trumps 911 Speculation

Larry Silverstein, The Leasor Of The Twin Towers:
· Nearly went bankrupt after losing his main tenant Drexel Burnham in 1980 after he built tower 7 with him in mind.
· I don't know how many of us understand the level of desperation a situation like this can cause in someone and how many potential crimes it can easily push them towards.
· He is known for then saying, “…looking up at the twin towers and thinking, my building is huge, but it is made diminutive by the twin towers. So I said to myself, wouldn't it be incredible someday to own those?" That's not the statement of a sane person who nearly went bankrupt, and if anything, hints towards jealousy.
· He managed to secure Salomon Brothers two years later, which later paid $300 million in securities fraud penalties casting suspicion over the entities who saved Silverstein, in addition to their overall plans for the future.
· How he would become able to outbid everyone else in 2001, for the right to lease the twin towers, would become a mystery we will untangle later.
Further Reading
Manhattan Institute – Silverstein On Ground Zero
Justice Department: Salomon Brothers Securities Fraud

Trump and Real Estate Connections
Historical Context and Redevelopment Plans:
· A redevelopment plan commenced in the 1990s by Gov. Pataki and Mayor Giuliani, spurred a commercial revival in downtown Manhattan, making the World Trade Center prime property. Pataki would go on to criticize trump, while the other would prove to be one of this wildest, if not craziest, supporters to truly fanatical degrees.
Further Reading:
Manhattan Institute: Rebuilding Ground Zero
· Tom Leppert was the CEO of Turner construction which right wing conspiracy theorists claimed helped ensure the towers would fall straight down. He also became part of Trumps transition team. While there’s no evidence of explosives being used, tampering with the exoskeleton and weaking the relatively thin central column ahead of time are theoretically plausible.
Huffpost Donald Trump Transition Team
Wikipedia Tom Leppert

The bidding for the World Trade Center lease involved only a few major real estate firms as allowed by the Port Authority Chairman. Below are the allowed bidders and their estimated worth at the time included:

· Donald J. Trump’s Organization:
o Worth around $1.5 billion in 1996 after multiple bankruptcies. Confirmed only by Forbes magazine in 2005.
· Tishman Speyer:
o Valued at approximately $1.8 billion in 2000, would soon face ‘tenant issues’ with many scrupulous legal claims against them.
· Gale & Wentworth:
o Worth a few million.
· Mortimer Zuckerman’s Boston Properties:
o Mortimer Zuckerman alone was worth around $2 billion.
· The Rouse Company:
o Mainly a shopping mall operator.
· Brookfield Properties:
o A Canadian firm valued at over $20 billion in 2000.
· Vornado Realty Trust:
o Worth an estimated $2-3 billion. Had the highest bid, but was unexpectedly outed by the Port Authority Chairman, paving the way for Silverstein’s win. CEO of Vornado Trust, Steven Roth would later do many deals with Trump in 2005 and beyond.
· Larry Silverstein:
o As mentioned, was nearly bankrupt in the 1980s, and was mysteriously awarded the right to lease the World Trade Center contract at $3.2 billion, twice the original asking price of 1.2 Billion. It would still be owned by the Port authority of NY and NJ, he would just own the rights to lease it.
o Port Authority Chairman, Lewis Eisenberg, made this unexplained decision, who also later became Trumps lead fundraiser in 2015.
o After putting down only $125 million, as per the contract, Silverstein would be getting back $100 million just 6 weeks after his bid and with an uncommon terrorist insurance addition. His exaggerated bid and insurance contract would also greatly inflate the amount of money he could get from an insurance claim. If the winning bid was 1.5 billion, the insurance payout would also have been much less.
o In real estate, its quite rare for a prudent investor to bid twice the asking price, as demonstrated by the other companies that backed out, of which I find no connections to Trump.
o If anyone had known about 9/11 ahead of time, like Trump claims he did, it would become drastically easier to outbid all competitors, knowing that for pennies on the dollar, you would be getting much more back.

Further Reading:
NY Times Article on World Trade Center Deal
Wikipedia on Lewis Eisenberg
Patch On Lew Eisenberg Leading Trump Fundraising
NY Times Article Silverstein Gets Most Of His Money Back

Giuliani’s Gangster Acts
Arguably, if the above points are what they objectively appear to be, that would be a bad thing. You’d think that would be enough. However, Guliani would say “hold my beer’ to those sentiments.

1. Outdated Equipment for First Responders:
· Due to Giuliani’s inadequate leadership, first responders used old equipment that failed to warn them to evacuate the towers. Which contributed to their deaths while they searched for survivors.
NY Times Article: Giuliani’s Preparedness on 9/11
2. Obstructed Recovery Efforts:
· Giuliani delayed proper search and rescue operations for days, possibly costing lives of citizens and first responders who didn’t know they needed to leave.
· 20 Years later he would claim that some of Bidens actions were so reckless that… “It would be as if I got down to ground zero and said take out the firefighters, all you civilians see if you can get yourselves out.” Self report?
NBC News Report: Giuliani’s Role in Recovery
NY1: Giuliani Reflects on 9/11 Anniversary
3. Twin Towers Fund and Privatization:
· Giuliani privatized the Twin Towers relief funds, making them unauditable.
NY Times Article on Privatization
NY Post Article: Giuliani and Twin Towers Fund
4. Survivors Threaten To SUE Guliani For Relief Funds
· Even after privatizing the twin towers fund, Giuliani would make it incredibly difficult for the victims to receive their fair share. Requiring many of them to spend unnecessary money on advisors and consultants.
· Even with their legal pressure, he only agreed to “give the remaining 100 million to victims,” out of 170 million, if he could first put the money into the bank account of a charity in which he controlled.
· From the attached article: “But Harold Schaitberger, president of the International Association of Fire Fighters, said that he remained adamantly opposed to any transfer of funds to Mr. Giuliani's charity.
He also objected to Mr. Giuliani's continued control over even the $15 million in his private charity. Mr. Giuliani, he charged, gives every indication of using the Twin Towers Fund to maintain a staff of loyal supporters and to advance his political aspirations.
'The concern that politics will infiltrate the fund becomes even more apparent when one reviews the list of the mayor's former political appointees who are assuming senior staff positions or serving on the fund's board of directors,'' he wrote in a letter on Monday to Eliot L. Spitzer, the state attorney general.”
NY Times Article On Guliani Pressed To Disperse Twin Tower Funds
· However, there is no evidence of Giuliani making good on this promise.
· There are honestly no words for this. All associates of Guliani should be investigated.
5. Attempted Election Cancellation in 2001:
· Giuliani tried to cancel the 2001 election to stay mayor longer. He even considered removing term limits with Governor Pataki’s support. Similar to how Trump has “joked” about increasing his own term limits.
Business Insider: Giuliani and Pataki’s Attempt to Cancel Elections
Esquire Trump Joke Third Term
6. Motive
· In 2000, Guliani unfortunately got prostate cancer. We have to be willing to ask if this was a motive for his corrupt acts.
SurvivorNet: Giuliani’s Cancer


Silverstein’s Unscrupulous Greed
1. Initial Settlement Demands and Profit Claims:
· Despite only having been out for $25 million, Silverstein initially sought nearly $8 BILLION in insurance settlements and argued for "loss of revenue from those buildings," which is quite an uncompassionate claim considering how many lost their lives. Talk about a prime example of the working and lower classes making sacrifices while rich elites complain they didn’t profit enough from the same tragedy.
2. Rebuilding Contributions and Insurance Payout:
· Despite the fact that he only owned the leasing rights to the twin towers, ‘Silverstein Properties’ received up to $4 billion from insurance payouts, instead of the Port Authority, which would be customary as the owner.
· While it's assumed that most of that money went to rebuilding, this isn't actually known or proven. It would be different if he had a separate insurance policy that was not connected to the rebuilding of the towers, with different monies going to the Port Authority to rebuild. This was not the case.
History.com: Rebuilding of Ground Zero
· He additionally refused to return the rights of Building 1 to the Port Authority until he secured additional funds from an $8 billion state fund. Talk about heartless.
Wikipedia: Larry Silverstein
· Various entities would contribute a total of $20 billion to rebuild all six damaged or destroyed towers, including four towers leased by Silverstein and two others he hadn't. This makes it unlikely that he had to go out of pocket with his 4 Billion.
3. Estimated Net Worth:
· While earlier records of Silverstein's net worth are unavailable, aside from his near bankruptcy in 1980, he is currently estimated to be worth around $1 billion.
Forbes Profile: Larry Silverstein

Silverstein’s Controversial Alignment with Trump
Larry Silverstein's connections and public persona have often been scrutinized. This scrutiny became particularly relevant in 2015 when he publicly displayed his support for Donald Trump:
Watch Silverstein Discuss Trump
CNN Trump On 2020 Election

The Man Who Boasted
When most people witness a tragedy, especially of this size, it takes time for their brains to comprehend what happened, it takes even more time to process it. Thus, anyone who was able to brag about their own assets hours after this tragedy on a radio show, is at least worthy of Investigation, especially if this very event helped reshape a misinformation landscape in which he would thrive as its King.
Politifact – How 911 Attacks Helped Shape Modern Misinformation

· Insensitive Boasts About Building Height:
o Trump also boasted that with the fall of the Twin Towers, his building became the tallest in Manhattan—an inaccurate and insensitive claim given the context.
Independent 9 11 Trump Tallest Building
· Early Claims and Revisions:
o Shortly after 9/11, Donald Trump claimed he saw the second plane hit the towers from his Manhattan apartment. He also made an unfounded claim that he saw thousands of Muslims in New Jersey cheering, a statement that has been widely debunked. Despite varying explanations and suggesting that he saw it on an untraceable video that was “widely covered,” these claims helped fueled significant conspiracy theories. If anything, this was a self-report.
o Snopes: Trump Claims Muslims Cheered
o FactCheck.org: Trump’s Revised 9/11 Claim
· Visit to Ground Zero:
o A week after the attacks, Trump visited Ground Zero and stated that although he was present, he wouldn’t consider himself a first responder. This attempt at humility struck many as morbidly insensitive, considering the true heroism displayed by actual first responders.
ABC News: Trump Shares New Details About Morning of 9/11

Legacy of Suspicion:
These actions paint Trump as one of the more suspicious figures post-9/11, who may have used the tragedy for personal and political gain. His connections with figures like Larry Silverstein and Lewis Eisenberg, the Port Authority chairman, hint at deep financial interests potentially influenced by the 9/11 aftermath. Meanwhile, survivors and first responders faced challenges in securing support, highlighting the disparities between their experiences and the political maneuvers at play. Again morbidly juxtaposing the struggles of the poor and working class versus elite swamp members such as Trump and his ilk.

While being, arguably, one of the more suspicious Americans of potentially “being an insider," Trump would go on to cast doubt everywhere else with his new holier than thou rhetoric and hints and claims that “it was an inside job” for the next 15 years.

What if he was speaking from personal experience.

The Deepfake Dilemma
Now in a world where Trump's followers already discount reality, the emergence of AI-generated deepfakes threatens to further distort the truth. This technology could transform legal standards of evidence, making it easy to dismiss genuine evidence against the right as fabricated, while baseless accusations against the left might be accepted as the long-awaited proof.

The Potential Escalation of MAGA Actions
Given the willingness of MAGA supporters to storm the Capitol on January 6th, bolstered by Trump's incendiary rhetoric, the potential for escalation is alarming. The advent of fabricated images and videos could present unprecedented national security threats.

Trump's Incendiary Rhetoric on January 6th
Trump's speech on January 6th was a clear incitement, as he urged his followers to "fight like hell" to "stop the steal," despite admitting DURING THE SPEECH that there was no evidence of the massive electoral fraud he claimed. As well as his lawyers laughable court “arguments.”
“...while there is no evidence to prove any wrongdoing…”
Npr.Org Read Trumps Jan 6 Speech
LawAndCrime Come On Now

This speech, coupled with his undermining of constitutional processes, underscores the risks and intentional deceit of his rhetoric. Too bad Republicans senators and our Supreme Court have either claimed he was above the law, or continue to postpone his court dates till after elections. A wild position when treason is on the table. Did that dude commit treason that claims he wants to become a dictator? I dunno, lets let him potentially get elected and then find out!

Elon Musk's Political Shift
Elon was once very much a leftist, unfortunately in more and more far left “activists” continue to attack him endlessly for not agreeing with them on their own singular issues and perspectives. To them I say congratulations, you successfully pushed the most powerful man on earth into the far right. Great job. Great job.
Elon Musk's journey from a liberal supporter to a figure embraced by the far right highlights the volatile nature of political affiliations in today's polarized environment. His actions since acquiring Twitter—such as promoting unfounded conspiracy theories and making high-profile firings—suggest a departure from his initial free speech advocacy.
Especially when considering he fired Don Lemon from his platform for an interview he found offensive. Canceling opinions you find offensive isn’t free speech, it’s literally the opposite. I’m sure many people were offended by the examples below. What about them?
Far Right Support Examples: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

The Need for a Critical Approach
Supporters of Trump should critically evaluate why he did not pardon the January 6th insurrectionists during his term, despite using them as political leverage now. This pattern of using allies until they are no longer useful is evident throughout his political and personal dealings.
What better example could there possibly be as to what trump truly thinks of his supporters, how sacrificial he sees them as part of his endless narratives, then his refusal and failure to pardon January 6th insurrectionists while still in office?
Of course, anyone “just on the grass” or outside the building should only get a day in jail at most, however people that barged inside the capital should naturally get much more.
And while trump refused to pardon those people before, he now calls them “hostages” and is using them as political bait to a truly wild degree. It's very likely he will make good on this promise to further embolden the narrative that “Democrats are trying to take you down and only I can save you.”
His supporters need to seriously ask, “Why didn’t he pardon us before?”
Also, remember when he claimed he would pay legal fees for supporters that were violent at his rallies, but then seemed to falter and change his mind. Much like how Amber Heard donated her money, “by pledging it.”
List of allies he was quick to discard or dump. And let's face it, all of these people have done more for him than the average MAGA supporter. The only person he cares about is himself.
Trump claims that Mike Pence, the man he vetted more than anyone else, “has gone to the dark side.”
Trump seems to have supported the chants to “Hang Mike Pense,” at least in jest? We hope? There are also no links of him condemning them. Yet admittedly this one point doesn’t have hard evidence like a recording or video as far as I know, it certainly fits his brand.
Mike Flynn, a Trump appointee, later testifies against him.
Trump admits Flynn lied on his behalf, accidentally testifying against him, but does pardon him. As long as you’re colluding with Russia you’re ok it seems?

The Future Under Trump's Influence
Trump's rhetoric about overriding constitutional norms to address what he calls "massive fraud" hints at authoritarian aspirations. His praise for dictators and divisive language further aligns with dangerous historical precedents.
Important Articles:
How a second trump term could end us democracy.” -commondreams
Ask the expert: What a 2nd Trump term could mean for democracy and advancing policy.” - Msu Today
Judgement Day” for political opponents.

To predict the future lets base it on known facts:
Apparently, he will help attack our constitution like he may have with the Twin Towers.
“A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.”
Stated he intended to be a Dictator on day one, but then promises it will be just for a day. Is that how that works? Or is it “Once you go Dictator you don’t go back?”
Praising dictators, referring to immigrants as vermin etc, akin to Hitlers rhetoric against “blood mixing.”
More fraudulent use of lawyers and courts that gets everyone else in trouble but him, with them arguing he's above the law. This further shows how much he will consistently use people for his own ends and then dump them when they're no longer of use.
Warning from republicans and notes on ass kissing. As well as being generally unfit for office.
If you want help from Trump you better kiss his ***
Trumps says he kept Omarosa just because she said nice things about him, while defaming her
DeSantis: "You can be the most worthless Republican in America, but if you kiss the ring, he’ll say you’re wonderful."
Thehill Trump Views People Who Kiss His A As Weak.
And if you dare to speak out against trump, you better kiss his ****
Politico Graham Breaks With Trump On Abortion
WashingtonPost Trump Graham Abortion
News Yahoo 30 More Republicans Denounce Donald Trump Unqualified President
Hot take, if he’s elected president America, and the world, is frankly fucked.

Predicting MAGA 2024 And Beyond
Naturally there are endless possibilities of what MAGA and dictators around the world decide to do this year and into the future. I believe that the one thing that insinuates when it's time for their next evil actions is dictated by their standings in the polls or when a fellow dictator needs a little more political pressure from war torn inflated oil prices etc.
Dictators Unite
While writing my thesis, I speculated that dictators globally were uniting, finding mutual benefits in their governance and deceitful tactics. This theory is increasingly recognized as these autocrats appear to be forming a coalition, undermining peaceful unity efforts through conspiracy theories to preserve their power.
Unherd How Autocrats Unite
The True Nature of MAGA
MAGA was never genuinely about speaking truth to power or restoring America's glory. It has been an elaborate scheme funded by immense wealth, perpetuating anti-American sentiments through fabricated grassroots movements by domestic and foreign actors. This movement has primarily enriched a select few power-hungry dictators and may have been responsible for some of our most horrific moments in history in the past and acts yet to come.
Trump and MAGA
While 'MAGA' predates Trump, he conveniently stepped into a role long in the making. Despite occasional deviations from the MAGA ideology, such as promoting vaccines to emphatic boos, Trump has largely embodied its principles. The real architects of MAGA, however, are likely disillusioned with his unpredictable attacks, which contradict their broader agenda of absolute power.
Nbc News Donald Trump Booed
Trump as a Martyr
Regardless of election outcomes, Trump is poised to claim interference. His rhetoric and the devout belief of his followers in his divine anointment could lead to his martyrdom, especially given his age and the vulnerabilities it brings. This martyrdom could solidify his legacy while serving the interests of MAGA strategists who find him increasingly burdensome even if he “wins.”
Factcheck Trumps Bogus Voter Fraud Claims
La Times Trump Democrats Effort Presidential Ballot
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2024.05.12 12:13 Southern-Ad-9105_4 The Lord protects the bones of the righteous.

In Psalm 34:20 there is dictation on how the "Lord" (god) protects the bones of the righteous; referring to Jesus Christ as one of these "righteous" and thus his bones being protected as a result. This concept of the "protection" that the bones of deities had – finds its roots in pagan mythology where for example in Egyptian culture the Egyptians claimed that the bones of their gods were made of solid metal; as well as having elements of gold and silver in them.
This notion is furthermore emphasized in two particular cases for Greek mythology – where; during the dismemberment of Pelops the child of Tantalus (the mythological ancestors of the House of Atreus from which king Agamemnon was said to have descended), Pelops was claimed to have been rebuilt and to have had an ivory plaque fixed onto his shoulder because the shoulder joint had gone missing during the dismemberment – so it had to be replaced with another and the shoulder was thus visible outside the skin because of this. And this is once again reinstated for the myth of Achilles – where, according to one more detailed account which explains exactly why was it that Achilles had a weakness in his tendon precisely – it explains how when Achilles was a child Thetis burned one of his feet managing to damage one of the bones inside the foot (the heel) and the bone had to then be replaced with the one of an exhumed giant (the skeleton of a giant who was already dead and had been buried). This though left the tendon more exposed through the skin when compared to the rest of his body – and it made him more susceptible in that area of his body precisely. This version of events is reported by Ptolemy Hephaestion (100 a.d.).
In Irish mythology the hero "Cu Chulainn" is claimed in one of his stories to have been injured so badly by the enemy – that after having had a "one against everyone" type of fight versus the Ulster warriors (the Irish mythological soldiers); Cu Chulainn’s body was so badly broken that his father "Lugh" (the Irish god of light and medicine) appeared to him and put the hero Cu Chulainn in a deep sleep which lasted three days. He placed Cu Chulainn’s body inside a sepulcher and covered it with a large stone; and inside the sepulcher he practiced quote on quote "magic" in order to heal Cu Chulainn. When Cu Chulainn came out of the tomb 3 days later it appeared as though he had "resurrected" because his body was now fixed – although the encounter with the Ulster warriors left some permanent effects on the body of Cu Chulainn because after the god Lugh had healed him – Cu Chulainn’s body acquired a new ability which is the one of having become unnaturally flexible to the point that he could contort his body in unnatural and non-human ways after the treatment that the Irish god Lugh did on him.
Not coincidentally after having had this procedure done on him – Cu Chulainn will undergo his first "ríastrad" or "distortion" (which is the Irish word indicating Cu Chulainn’s physical transformations) and his body was described as having contorted inside its skin allowing him to assume poses and shapes that were not natural for a human body. Cu Chulainn will then acquire another ability which is triggered when he goes into these "berserk" states where he loses his composure and loses also the awareness of his surroundings; and he uses his body in unnatural ways in order to make himself more flexible/frightening in appearance – or even bigger physically thus growing in size. And this other time when Cu Chulainn’s body underwent another "transformation" – he’s claimed to have become so big and his muscles so inflated – that he’s described as looking like a swollen bladder; and not only that – but at the same time he’s also described as having increased his size and his height to such degree that he now resembled a giant.
Now, the fact that Cu Chulainn’s body was able to contort in unnatural ways and stretch beyond humanly possible – clearly hints at the fact that the bones inside his body had all been fractured and broken essentially – during his encounter with the Ulster warriors. Now, the Irish god Lugh managed to seal the broken bones together once more – but in doing so he used plaques and "bridges" that connected the broken ends of the bones once again; but this also allowed Cu Chulainn’s body to then become unnaturally flexible because these "plaques" or "bridges" that connected all the pieces of his broken bones together were also flexible and resistant to tear. They could also grow in size thus stretching the broken ends of the bones while still holding them together though – and thus allowing for the illusion that his actual bones were increasing in size, when in fact they weren’t.
Referring back to the myth of Tantalus – the "ivory" plaque that was visible on his shoulder was not the only plaque present in his body; his entire body had been rebuilt through plaques that looked like "ivory" but the only one visible through his skin was the one in his shoulder because it was exposed – so the myth explained it as though "only" the shoulder of Pelops had been replaced with an ivory one – when in fact; his entire body had been reconnected and "rebuilt" that way internally as well.
The ones "chosen" by the gods were put through these kinds of treatments for example in the cases when injury happened (like in the case of Cu Chulainn or even Pelops in the Greek myth and Achilles) or generally speaking – when there was a desire to make someone stronger and more resilient in battle because being a warrior – he needed to be unbeatable in order to serve the commanders in chief. (Cu Chulainn not coincidentally was a warrior and soldier who protected the Irish people and acted in their sole interest).
The fact that the Egyptians then believed that the bones of the gods were entirely made of metal – is because when an individual underwent these kinds of treatments; the entire skeleton would basically be covered in metal in order to make the bones much more resilient – and when there was a tear in the skin or for some reason the bones would become exposed through the skin thus making them visible; it would look as though the bones were literally made of metal. Egyptian mythology clarifies that it was "celestial metal" when talking for example about the "cosmic Osiris" who refers to his bones as being made of "celestial metal" in the Pyramid texts.
For Irish mythology Cu Chulainn refers once again to the god who died crucified on a tree or beneath a tree because Cu Chulainn was claimed to have been affixed on a pole (a tall pillar; which was then interpreted as a "tree" for example in the Scandinavian version with Odin) and to have died there while tied around this pillar.
The episode when Cu Chulainn exited the tomb after three days refers specifically to when Thomas touched the wounds of Jesus and saw that the wounds of Jesus were still present on his body – because as mentioned; Cu Chulainn’s broken body was rebuilt by the god Lugh but the wounds were still visible on his body for some time. (The same episode is told for the mythology of Merlin where Merlin was buried in a sepulcher with a large stone covering the cave; and there he then "resurrected" and came out after three days). Although the figure of the "son of god" underwent also another crucifixion (which is where the saying of: "Quo vadis domine?" – "Romam vado, iterum crucifigi" comes from).
During this second crucifixion and torture – the body of the "son of god" was so badly wounded and torn apart; that nothing could be done to "rebuild" him so as mentioned in this other post: https://www.reddit.com/EsotericOccult/s/K0Y47tbyho – a part of him was "saved" and later "restored" inside a new "glorified" body. The first and second crucifixion were later fused together into a single one by the Church – which is why there are contradicting accounts on who exactly was present at the crucifixion (some versions saying Christ was alone while others saying that all his beloved ones were there with him) – and also contradictions on who exactly was at the tomb at the time of his death and where he had been buried (some versions saying Magdalene wasn’t there while others claiming that she was there crying every day etc.). This is because there were two crucifixions – one less severe; the other one fatal. And for the first one not many people witnessed it so the "son of god" was essentially alone – whilst for the second one everyone was there and they watched powerless as they couldn’t do anything to save him.
submitted by Southern-Ad-9105_4 to EsotericOccult [link] [comments]


2024.05.12 11:27 EveryoneIsAComedian [General Fiction] No, Lilith Is Not Sympathetic OR A Feminist Icon. She Isn't Even That Important

Disclaimer:

Despite how the title and intro may look, I am not here to dunk on feminism. If you came looking for a post that said, "Feminist Soy! Am i rite?" Sorry, got to disappoint. Conversely, this isn't a sermon about why you should convert. Believe whatever you want to believe bro. Also, Not a Christian, but I do like Wendigoon talking about it. Finally, Mods plz don't nuke my post this isn't about religion but about the mythology around the figure.

Why Post This Here:

Lilith has been involved in literary discourse for a while as well as being seen as a Feminist Icon in literature. This post is meant to debunk these claims and misreading of the Abrahamic Myths.

Intro:

This really isn't a specific work of fiction, but rather, a general fictional trope I guess., Ever since the release of Hazbin Hotel, discussion has increased on Lilith being a sympathetic/feminist icon, and this is the most laughable idea to me as a guy who is currently studying Christian Mythology for a project. Today, I am going to debunk this claim of Lilith being sympathetic or any sort of feminist girlboss or even being anyway relevant to the Abrahamic Mythos. I'll try source all my arguments, so it doesn't look like I am talk out of my ass.

In The Bible:

Ah, the Bible. It is amazing how such a small book can cause so much violence, but we are not here for a religious debate (well not really). We are here to discuss Lilith. For context, I am going to be used the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) & English Standard Version (ESV). This is because NSRV and ESV and considered the most popular when it comes to the Bible Versions.
Let's start with NRSV, and Lilith shows up...once? Hell, she doesn't even show up. She's just mentioned.
Isaiah 34:14: "Wildcats shall meet with hyenas, goat-demons shall call to each other; there too Lilith shall repose,"
You can read the full chapter here, but the full chapter really doesn't change much. From what I could gleam (admittedly I ain't a theologian so I could be missing stuff), the dude in this chapter is talking about God's Judgment and is more focused on the natural disasters that would happen. Lilith isn't even really that important. She seems to be at best a higher demon with some power, but this same chapter says an undead apocalypse will happen. She is a footnote at best.
Okay what about ESV? It is even worse there. She doesn't even show up.
Isaiah 34:14: "And wild animals shall meet with hyenas; the wild goat shall cry to his fellow; indeed, there the night bird settles and finds for herself a resting place" (Source)
Okay, but I am clearly cherry-picking though right? What about the other versions? Well, it get even more nebulous. In certain version, it isn't even Lilith but an unnamed night-demon (Source). In others, it isn't even a demon but just a creature of the night/ animals of the night (Source). Hell one of them there are no demons instead an unnamed ogress (Source).
You'd think that Lilith, being the first woman and rebelling against Big G himself, should get more than one very sketchy mention. I mean Eve the mother of humanity is mentioned between 2,000 -2,500 times (Source), Mary the mother of Jesus Motherfucking Christ himself gets around 40 times (Source), hell Queen Sheba, whose existence I only know because a sword in KCD is name after her, is mentioned nearly 70 times (Source)(obviously this varies on which version you take as some books are just removed but the point stands). You mean to tell me a fucking side character is mentioned more than literally Female Satan. Funnily enough, Satan is only mention like 30 times in the Bible (Source).
Okay, so already the foundations of Lilith are shaky, but what do the other Abrahamic Religions say?

In The Quran/The Tanakh (IMPORTANT):

The Quran. She never shows up. Weird since both Eve and Mary get mentioned.
Okay, but what about The Tanakh? (For those who don't know the Tanakh is the "Hebrew Bible". A lot of people say that's the Torah, but the Torah is just the compilation of the first five books of the Tanakh.) Well, yes.
Otzar Midrashim, The Aleph Bet of ben Sira, The Alphabet of ben Sira, (alternative version) 34 - He said to him, "The angels appointed for healing: Sanoy, Sansanoy, Semangalof. When the Holy Blessed One created the first Adam alone, They said, (Genesis 2:18) 'It is not good for this Adam to be alone.' They created for him a wife out of the Earth like he had been, and called her Lilith. Immediately they began to challenge each other. She said, 'I will not lie below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while I am to be the superior one…
So case closed - STOP. I ain't done cooking yet. See, I got to apologize a bit to you reader. I kind of lied, but to understand how I lied. You got to understand the Jewish Faith first, specifically their holy texts.
Okay, all Holy Jewish Texts fall under Sifrei Kodesh (aka Holy Books). . Within the Siferi Kodesh, there are two main categories texts fall into Tankah and Rabbinic. The Tankah is The Hebrew Bible. It is the considered the canonical collection of Hebrew scriptures and is comprisied of the Torah, the Nevi'im, and the Ketuvim. (Source and Source). Meanwhile, the Rabbinic is Jewish Rabbis studying and interpreting the Tankah (Source, Source, Source). The Alphabet of Ben Sira is squarely in the Rabbinic.
Most of you have already seen a problem, but for those of who didn't, let me spell it out. When you are quoting this passage, you are not quoting from the Tankah. You are quoting a Rabbi's interpretation of the Tankah. This would be equivalent to me using My Immortal to critique Harry Potter (No offense to any Jewish Rabbis. This comparison is meant to be extreme).
Ah, but ain't done yet reader, I have saved the biggest bombshell for last.
The Alphabet of Ben Sira is a shitpost. It a satire. It isn't real.
The reasoning is several. This reddit comment sums it up. And This. Also This
From The Jewish Virtual Library:
There is no reason to doubt the unity of the work as a whole, despite the fragmentary character of the different versions. All the versions share a special, satirical, and even heretical, character, and this indicates that they all were written by a single hand. They seem to reflect varying degrees of censorship on the part of editors and copyists. The complete work contains four parts. The first part is the biography of Ben Sira from his conception until the age of one year. This story, omitted in many editions, explains how Jeremiah, the prophet, was simultaneously Ben Sira's father (the numerical value of Ben Sira's name equals that of Jeremiah), and grandfather. Ben Sira's mother was Jeremiah's daughter. The old prophet was forced to an act of onanism by wicked men, and his daughter conceived from his emissions when she came to bathe. The form of this story is based on a biblical verse that tells the glories and wonders of God's deeds; thus the story satirizes not only Jeremiah, but God's deeds as well.
The second part is more sophisticated in form. It tells how Ben Sira, now one year old, meets with his teacher, who tries to teach him the alphabet. Instead of repeating each letter of the alphabet after his teacher, Ben Sira responds with an epigram beginning with that letter. The epigrams lead the teacher to tell the story of his life. It may be assumed that the original structure of this part was 22 + 12 paragraphs, each containing a letter, an epigram, and a part of the story.
The third part is the longest and contains most of the narrative material in this work. It recounts the story of Ben Sira's life and adventures in the court of Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylonia. It also includes stories told by Ben Sira himself as answers to the king's questions. These stories often include pornographic elements, as well as derogatory descriptions of biblical figures, like King Solomon or Joshua. Some of the stories in this section contain motifs from international folklore and may be based on folktales, but they were adapted to the special framework of the work and satirical elements were added to them. Examination of the various versions indicates that here, too, there were 22 stories, arranged according to the letters of the alphabet, to which 12 other stories were added.
The fourth part, which is found in most versions and gave the work its name, contains 22 alphabetically arranged epigrams attributed to Ben Sira that serve as material for discussion and interpretation by Ben Sira's son, Uzziel, and his grandson, Joseph b. Uzziel. The contents are satirical and even heretical. It may be assumed that this part was constructed in the same manner as the two previous ones – 22 + 12 sections. The work, therefore, displays elements of unity both in structure and in its ideological aims. It is all but impossible, however, to discover the background upon which such a work could have been written. Some scholars (L. Ginzberg and others) believe that it aimed at ridiculing the story of Jesus' birth; but the basis for such a conclusion may be found only in the first part, and even this is not very clear, for the irony seems to be directed more against God than against Jesus. It is hardly possible that the author was a Karaite, as some of the abusive stories are directed against biblical figures, and not only against the Talmud and Midrash. It seems likely that the author did not belong to any organized group or definable ideological movement, but was merely a writer with an anarchistic tendency who used satire to ridicule all the institutions of established religion in his day.
Another difficult problem is the relationship between this pseudepigraphal work and the original proverbs of Ben Sira. Some of the proverbs and epigrams included in the work are originally in the work of Ben Sira, but many such proverbs are found in talmudic literature, and the author probably took them from there. The author of the pseudepigraphal work did not even know Ben Sira's first name. There is only one slight connection that might be accidental: the Wisdom of *Ben Sira has a preface written by the author's grandson, who edited the work, and in the pseudepigraphal work the figure of a grandson is also present.
Buh buh But thats just a reddit comment and some random websites. Whu Whu What are you gonna do OP? Analyze the entire text to prove its a shitpost.
Yes.
Mods turn the music on.

Analysis Of Alphabet of Sirach/The Alphabet Of Ben Sira:

The text we will be using.
We are going to skip most of it and just jump straight into the section with Lilith, but if you do chose to read it, have a good time. Shit is funny as hell. Let's start of with Lillith's Birth. Many like to potray Adam and Lilith's first interaction like this.
1, 2, 3
It is often either stated or implied Adam either tried to force Lilith into a s*x position she didn't want or that he he stated that she was inferior to him and she spit back. While this nicely fits into the "yas Queen SLAYYY" interpretation, its not the truth...mostly.
Here is the actual text:
When the Holy Blessed One created the first Adam alone, They said, (Genesis 2:18) 'It is not good for this Adam to be alone.' They created for him a wife out of the Earth like he had been, and called her Lilith. Immediately they began to challenge each other. She said, 'I will not lie below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while I am to be the superior one.' Lilith responded, 'We are equal to each other inasmuch as we were both created from the Earth.' But they would not listen to one another. When Lilith saw this, she pronounced the Ineffable Name and flew away into the world's air.
So first, no she wasn't going to be sexually assaulted. Secondly, it was just a couple arguing with each other. Yes, Adam shouldn't have said that about Lilith, but we shouldn't take a statement said by an angry man as gospel for the religion. Plus, how on earth is blaspheming your Father and then running away from an argument an appropriate reaction to the situation? God didn't do anything wrong. Why you picking a fight with him? We will discuss this more, but lets continue.
The Holy Blessed One said to Adam, 'If she agrees to come back, good. If not, she must permit one hundred of her children to die every day.' They departed and pursued her, and overtook her in the midst of the sea, in the mighty waters wherein the Egyptians would ultimately drown. They told her God's word, but she did not wish to return. The angels said, 'We shall drown you in the sea.' She said to them, 'Let me be. I was created only to cause illness to infants. I have dominion over them for eight days after birth if they are male, and if female, after birth for twenty days.' When the angels heard Lilith's words, they insisted on taking her. But she swore to them by the name of the living and eternal God, 'Whenever I see you or your names or your forms in an amulet, I will have no power over that infant.' She also agreed to have one hundred of her children die every day.
There is much to go over here. First, WHERE ARE THE HUNDRED CHILDREN COMING FROM! These are the first man and woman. THERE ARE NO CHILDREN. Who is he talking about? And don't give me that bullshit that he mad a mistake. HE IS GOD. IN THE TORAH, HE IS OMNISCIENT. This makes no sense.
"I was created only to cause illness to infants. I have dominion over them for eight days after birth if they are male, and if female, after birth for twenty days." I am sorry fucking what? Who said that? God? No. Adam? No. The Angels? Definitely not. No one told Lilith she had to cause illness. She is just being a toxic bitch and offloading her problems. What the fuck?
Finally, "She also agreed to have one hundred of her children die every day." At this point, who has sympathy for Lilith? Lets objectively look at Adam's sin. Yes, he was sexist. Yes, that was wrong. Can't Lilith convince him to change? We know it is possible for a woman to convince Adam because EVE CONVINCED HIM TO EAT THE APPLE. So, clearly the man can develop his thoughts. Instead, Lilith just runs away from her problem, knowing that a hundred innocent children (HER CHILDREN BY THE WAY- hang on does that mean she fucked Adam and Eve's Sons. Isn't she like their aunt? I am pretty sure that's still incest) will die. Yes, God is partly to blame as well, but if I had to choose between a Misandrist Wife or dead innocents, I will go with the Misandrist Wife. Nothing shows Adam as violent just a dick, and she clearly has access to powers he doesn't cuz he can't fly.
Accordingly, every day one hundred demons perish, and for the same reason, we write their names on the amulets of young children, and she sees them, she remembers her oath, and the child is healed
I guess that's nice? But does she even really heal them? She just takes away an illness she caused. This is like saying I put out the fire, but I am the arsonist who started it. There wouldn't be a problem if I didn't create one. And that's how the story ends. Seriously.
There is more, but it doesn't really matter. Ben Sira cures a girl of farting everywhere, talks about hair follicles, slanders David, explains why Donkey Urine is important, and ends with a raven cucking an eagle. Its pretty funny.

In Conclusion:

So, TL;DR: Lilith's entire existence is based on a shitpost. In said shitpost, she isn't even that great of a person and isn't even a feminist.
So yeah, that's all I got. There is more to this Rabbit Hole if you are willing to go down, but that is the gist of it. I don't see how a woman who runs away from responsibilities, blames others for her failures, and would rather kill babies than do something hard is a feminist icon, but here we are. I don't really know how to end this. Uh, were you entertained?
Addendum: If you are of the Christian, Muslim, or Jewish Faith please comment below and clear up any misconceptions I wrote in this post. I will try to edit it to make it better. Feminists please try to be respectful in the comments. Sup Mods. Uh yeah, cool.

Addendum #2 - Mesopotamian Lilith:

Some people have been saying that I should analyze Lilith from Mesopotamian Origins as this would give her a more sympathetic view. Very well. There are three main sources: Tablet XII of the Epic of Gilgamesh, a Burney Relief, Arslan Tash amulets
Tablet XII of the Epic of Gilgamesh (Text we'll use): Lilith, a snake, and a bird steal a tree from a goddess and squat in it. Gilgamesh comes around kills the snake. The Bird flees. Lilith chimps out, destroys her home, and runs. Tbf, this is Gilgamesh, so I guess Lillith W?
The dyer (?) had not dyed his leather with it (?)
At its root the serpent, 'that knew not silence (?)' had made its nest
At its top the storm-bird (Zû) had put his young
In its midst Lilith had built a house
The shrieking maid the joyful
The bright Queen of Heaven tears for them (?) wept
His lady said a word to him
'Warrior Gilgamesh, its .... will thee'
The ibbaru garment that was of 50 minas from his loins he removed
What was 50 minas 30 ... . he made
His (?) brazen axe a road (?) his ....
1 talent 50 minas his in his hand he seized
At its root the serpent ' that knew not silence (?) ' he slew
At its top the storm-bird (Zû)
took his young (and) went away to the mountain
In its midst Lilith destroys (her) house
Burney Relief (Source): Yeah no
Even so, the possibility that the Queen of the Night plaque, with its high degree of skill in craftsmanship and attention to detail would be a representation of a lilitu is highly unlikely. According to the Hebrew tradition, Lilith was the first woman made by God who refused to submit to Adam's sexual demands and flew away, thus rebelling against God and his plans for human beings. She was thought to have then occupied the wastelands and, like the lilitu, to have preyed on unsuspecting men ever since. In either tradition, the lilitu was not a popular enough figure to have been portrayed on a plaque such as the Queen of the Night. Dr. Black notes, “Evil gods and demons are only very rarely depicted in art, perhaps because it was thought that their images might endanger people” (62). The mountain range depicted at the bottom of the relief is also thought to suggest lilitu identification in representing the wilderness the spirit inhabits but the headdress, the necklace, the rod-and-ring symbols and the significance of the plaque all go to argue against Lilith as a possibility.
Arslan Tash amulet (Source):
Whispering-incantation against the Flying-one, the oath of Sasam, son of Pidrišiša, god, and against the Strangler of the lamb: “The house I enter, you shall not enter And the court I tread, you shall not tread!He has made an eternal contract with us. Assur made a pact with us, all the sons of El,, and the great council of all the holy ones,With the oath of heaven and earth With the oath of Baal, lord of the earth With the oath of Horon, whose utterance is true,His seven concubines and the eight wives of Baal Qudš”[Written around and between the images] Oh Flying one, from the dark room pass away!Now! Now, night demons! [Written on the Sphinx figure] From my house, O crushers, go away! [Written on the wolf-like figure] Oh Sasam, let it not be opened for him And let him not come down to the door-posts The sun is rising for Sasam. Disappear, and fly away home.[Written on the axe-wielding figure](modified from Cross and Saley 1970 and Berlejung 2010).
So where the fuck is Lilith? Well the text in its original language features lly- which if you add a "t" could be llyt [Lilith], but it also can be ll wyn which means "night and day." So, yeah not exactly a Lilith W. And that's it. I don't know how this makes her sympathetic, but to each their own.

Addendum #3 - Lilith R*ped Adam?

u/howhow326 said that there was a tale about Lilith raping Adam and being thrown out of Eden. This intrigued me to search for it, but unfortunately, I can't find a source for this anywhere. The closest I get is this Blogpost, but this seems to be more of a hypothetical than anything. Frankly, I don't think this should be part of the debate.
Edit 1: Originally, there was a line that said : "Hell fucking Jesus gets mentioned the prophet of the ENEMY, but not Lilith." I have since been informed that this is a gross misrepresentation of the Muslim Faith, and it has been removed.
Edit 2: Spelling and Formatting Errors Corrected
Edit 3: Mesopotamian Lilith added. Lilith's Rape Accusations.
submitted by EveryoneIsAComedian to CharacterRant [link] [comments]


2024.05.12 11:15 interventionalhealer Trump and 9/11? A counter theory to the rise of MAGA.

u/neodestiny and friends.
For the sake of transparency, I am not the architect of the following discoveries, and am just helping to forward their message and clean it up. Copywrite of the following work belongs to no one and everyone is not only welcome to share these findings as if they were their own, but openly encouraged to do so.
Introduction
If you think you know anything about MAGA. Trust me, you know nothing. Not even his most devout followers or haters will have considered the following. And for the sake of our democracy and way of life, I hope people read this.
This work may very well help to shift the narrative on Trump in a meaningful and foundational way, but I don't want this work exacerbate any feelings of ill will to MAGA members, for they have been prey to possibly one of the largest con jobs our world has ever seen, especially without the help of this counternarrative.
Snippet From My Thesis On MAGA
As I work on tidying up the master file with the helpful dms I got, allow me to post just the most contentious part of it below, now that it’s able to stand on its own.
MAGA didn’t begin in 2015. I argue it began in 2001 on 9/11, while also harnessing and funneling decades of anti-government resentment till many Americans would openly call for a “wrecking ball” figure to help “drain the swamp.”

A Key Fueling Factor To American Outrage- Inflation
Many elements contributed to growing American anger that would later contribute to MAGA, this is a snippet from the larger work.
Rising Cost of Living
o In 1950, the Consumer Price Index (CPI) was 24.1. By 2000, it had risen to 168 (a 597% increase), and by 2023, it had reached 304.7, a 1163% increase from 1950.
o Housing prices saw a drastic rise overtime, with the median home price increasing from $7,354 in 1950 to $388,700 in 2023, a staggering 5185% increase.
o While rising rent costs can contribute to overall inflation and cost of living, even the left has largely failed to address how exponentially increasing real estate prices impact the cost of living. This omission has made many other conspiracy theories seem more plausible in its wake.
o If we don’t find real solutions for real estate that also aren’t extreme, then society will feel more and more pressure to accept “unreasonable solutions” like Trump, even though he’s the last person on earth who could solve it, considering his business acumen and history.
MAGA Dynamics and Blind Devotion
In 2016, it wasn't just the left calling the MAGA movement a cult. Trump famously said, "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters." Even the left failed to grasp the gravity of this statement. As someone who nearly died in a deadly cult and based on my research, I don't know of a single cult where the founder could openly commit murder without losing members. Trump didn't just believe he'd created one of the largest cults ever; he believed he'd created the most fanatical. Let's hope his followers prove him wrong by showing a willingness to criticize him, regardless of their vote.

The MAGA Question
Instead of challenging MAGA supporters on fallacious beliefs, ask them this question to see if they’re at least able to see a world where Trump isn’t a biblical King: "If Trump admitted he was behind 9/11 and used resulting insurance money and donations from hostile governments to create false “grass root” campaigns. And did it all in a way to make it seem like others committed his own atrocities. And that he intended to destroy America in every way if he got elected, would you still vote for him?"

Yet even then, getting through to a MAGA supporter inevitably refers to 9/11 “research” out there when they realize individual positions are usually fallacious. This quagmire me decide to investigate this tragedy, to see if there was a more plausible counter theory. Honestly, the more I looked the more surprised I became. Here are my findings that are but a snippet of my full thesis on MAGA.

9/11 Conspiracy Theories and MAGA
Conspiracy Theories and Credibility:
o First off, conspiracy theories should involve some effort to verify narratives, rather than just repeating claims across multiple sources that mistake themselves as evidence; like a bunch of people who repeat “bob farted” across multiple websites may see that as evidence, when in fact, it was Sean. Sorry Sean.

Early Origins of MAGA:
o Although some believe MAGA began in 2015, its roots lie as early as the 1980s with Rush Limbaugh and later became "serious" on 9/11.
o 9/11 conspiracy theories claim controlled demolitions were used, but the lack of any cellphone recordings of explosions weakens this theory.

Suspicious Factors:
o The official narrative involving chaotic jet fuel leading to a straight fall seemed questionable.
o The collapse of a third building (WTC 7), which wasn’t directly hit, fueled suspicions.
o Airline stocks were heavily shorted before the attacks, raising concerns about insider trading. Harvey Pitt, Republican SEC Chairman at the time, investigated this and claimed there was nothing amiss, but was criticized for later crimes and forced to resign.
o It’s also suspicious that in Trumps 2000 book “The America We Deserve” that he stated, “I really am convinced we’re in danger of the sort of terrorist attacks that will make the [1993] bombing of the Trade Center look like kids playing with firecrackers. No sensible analyst rejects this possibility, and plenty of them, like me, are not wondering if but when it will happen*.”*
§ Yet democrats would largely miss this point entirely and obsess over his false claim that he called for Bin Laden to be killed, when he had not. Somehow conspiracy theorists would find this ‘cool’ rather than suspicious.
CNN Fact Check Donald Trump Osama Bin Laden Book Claim

Reports and Simplified Narratives:
o FEMA's 2002 report and NIST's 2005 report provided technical explanations of the tower collapses.
o However, the Port Authority Chairman stuck to the oversimplified narrative that "jet fuel melted steel beams," even though he knew this was a half-truth, as detailed in the next section, fueling anti-government conspiracies. The question is why.

Potential Impact:
o 9/11 conspiracy theories sowed distrust in the government, which may have been one of the attackers' objectives. Anyone that heavily profited from this tragedy, and helped further those objects, should be questioned.
o The ‘Loose Change’ “documentary” pointed out suspicious parts of the story, but failed to give any clear claims as to who was purportedly behind it. It also failed to note the Twin Towers titanic design flaw that could result in a straight fall. Even the 2015 version of this film fails to mention nearly all of the known facts in this report.
o The Director of that film later states:
“I DON’T THINK WE’D HAVE PRESIDENT TRUMP IF IT WEREN’T FOR 9/11”
“9/11 created a culture of fear, of xenophobia, this sense of entitlement and everything we’ve seen. Warrantless wire-tapping, Guantanamo Bay, everything that’s happened led us to this point, we wouldn’t be here without 9/11. They want to kick out all the Mexicans and Muslims because of this culture of fear and bigotry and xenophobia that directly led to the election of fucking Donald Trump. [laughing] That’s our world now! We had Reagan before, and Governor Schwarzenegger. But President Donald Trump? It’s just weird. Everything is just weird.”
Theoutline Reflecting On Loose Change
o While the director was in the right to ask questions, he failed to ask the most obvious ones.
o However, his lead “researcher,” Jason Bermas, would turn out to be a full blown MAGA wingnut.
Patriot Jason Bermas
o Anyone that would benefit politically and financially from 9/11 should be fully investigated.
Further Reading:
Harvey Pitt - Wikipedia
Politifact How 911 Attacks Helped Shape Modern Misinformation
It will never be possible to defeat MAGA followers “logically” with people who believed his parties rhetoric “that 9/11 was an inside job.”

I say… what if those Republican leaders were self reporting?
What if Trump followers have been rallying behind the very man responsible for its orchestration?

The Twin Towers and Larry Silverstein
Architectural Pitfalls of the Twin Towers:
· The Twin Towers had unique architectural flaws due to the excessive heavy load on their exoskeletons to allow for more floor and leasing space, which greatly contributed to their straight collapse after the 9/11 attacks. This was the first and last skyscraper made in this way.
· For anyone who said that “any other building would have fallen sideways,” you were right, though perhaps not entirely how you may have imagined. A "Coke Can" analogy shows how a similar weakened structure can result in a straight fall, contrary to conspiracy theories claiming controlled demolitions. This isn't something I'm asking you to take for granted, or to read from media sources you don’t trust. This is something you can verify on your own, in person, in real time, in reality.
· However Trump, despite being close friends with Silverstein as we’ll cover later, claimed "It wasn’t architectural defects, you know, the World Trade Center was always known as a very, very strong building” per the attached PolitiFact article.
· Supporting Article:
Engineering Experts Explain the Collapse of the Twin Towers
Politifact Donald Trumps 911 Speculation

Larry Silverstein, The Leasor Of The Twin Towers:
· Nearly went bankrupt after losing his main tenant Drexel Burnham in 1980 after he built tower 7 with him in mind.
· I don't know how many of us understand the level of desperation a situation like this can cause in someone and how many potential crimes it can easily push them towards.
· He is known for then saying, “…looking up at the twin towers and thinking, my building is huge, but it is made diminutive by the twin towers. So I said to myself, wouldn't it be incredible someday to own those?" That's not the statement of a sane person who nearly went bankrupt, and if anything, hints towards jealousy.
· He managed to secure Salomon Brothers two years later, which later paid $300 million in securities fraud penalties casting suspicion over the entities who saved Silverstein, in addition to their overall plans for the future.
· How he would become able to outbid everyone else in 2001, for the right to lease the twin towers, would become a mystery we will untangle later.
Further Reading
Manhattan Institute – Silverstein On Ground Zero
Justice Department: Salomon Brothers Securities Fraud

Trump and Real Estate Connections
Historical Context and Redevelopment Plans:
· A redevelopment plan commenced in the 1990s by Gov. Pataki and Mayor Giuliani, spurred a commercial revival in downtown Manhattan, making the World Trade Center prime property. Pataki would go on to criticize trump, while the other would prove to be one of this wildest, if not craziest, supporters to truly fanatical degrees.
Further Reading:
Manhattan Institute: Rebuilding Ground Zero
· Tom Leppert was the CEO of Turner construction which right wing conspiracy theorists claimed helped ensure the towers would fall straight down. He also became part of Trumps transition team. While there’s no evidence of explosives being used, tampering with the exoskeleton and weaking the relatively thin central column ahead of time are theoretically plausible.
Huffpost Donald Trump Transition Team
Wikipedia Tom Leppert

The bidding for the World Trade Center lease involved only a few major real estate firms as allowed by the Port Authority Chairman. Below are the allowed bidders and their estimated worth at the time included:

· Donald J. Trump’s Organization:
o Worth around $1.5 billion in 1996 after multiple bankruptcies. Confirmed only by Forbes magazine in 2005.
· Tishman Speyer:
o Valued at approximately $1.8 billion in 2000, would soon face ‘tenant issues’ with many scrupulous legal claims against them.
· Gale & Wentworth:
o Worth a few million.
· Mortimer Zuckerman’s Boston Properties:
o Mortimer Zuckerman alone was worth around $2 billion.
· The Rouse Company:
o Mainly a shopping mall operator.
· Brookfield Properties:
o A Canadian firm valued at over $20 billion in 2000.
· Vornado Realty Trust:
o Worth an estimated $2-3 billion. Had the highest bid, but was unexpectedly outed by the Port Authority Chairman, paving the way for Silverstein’s win. CEO of Vornado Trust, Steven Roth would later do many deals with Trump in 2005 and beyond.
· Larry Silverstein:
o As mentioned, was nearly bankrupt in the 1980s, and was mysteriously awarded the right to lease the World Trade Center contract at $3.2 billion, twice the original asking price of 1.2 Billion. It would still be owned by the Port authority of NY and NJ, he would just own the rights to lease it.
o Port Authority Chairman, Lewis Eisenberg, made this unexplained decision, who also later became Trumps lead fundraiser in 2015.
o After putting down only $125 million, as per the contract, Silverstein would be getting back $100 million just 6 weeks after his bid and with an uncommon terrorist insurance addition. His exaggerated bid and insurance contract would also greatly inflate the amount of money he could get from an insurance claim. If the winning bid was 1.5 billion, the insurance payout would also have been much less.
o In real estate, its quite rare for a prudent investor to bid twice the asking price, as demonstrated by the other companies that backed out, of which I find no connections to Trump.
o If anyone had known about 9/11 ahead of time, like Trump claims he did, it would become drastically easier to outbid all competitors, knowing that for pennies on the dollar, you would be getting much more back.

Further Reading:
NY Times Article on World Trade Center Deal
Wikipedia on Lewis Eisenberg
Patch On Lew Eisenberg Leading Trump Fundraising
NY Times Article Silverstein Gets Most Of His Money Back

Giuliani’s Gangster Acts
Arguably, if the above points are what they objectively appear to be, that would be a bad thing. You’d think that would be enough. However, Guliani would say “hold my beer’ to those sentiments.

1. Outdated Equipment for First Responders:
· Due to Giuliani’s inadequate leadership, first responders used old equipment that failed to warn them to evacuate the towers. Which contributed to their deaths while they searched for survivors.
NY Times Article: Giuliani’s Preparedness on 9/11
2. Obstructed Recovery Efforts:
· Giuliani delayed proper search and rescue operations for days, possibly costing lives of citizens and first responders who didn’t know they needed to leave.
· 20 Years later he would claim that some of Bidens actions were so reckless that… “It would be as if I got down to ground zero and said take out the firefighters, all you civilians see if you can get yourselves out.” Self report?
NBC News Report: Giuliani’s Role in Recovery
NY1: Giuliani Reflects on 9/11 Anniversary
3. Twin Towers Fund and Privatization:
· Giuliani privatized the Twin Towers relief funds, making them unauditable.
NY Times Article on Privatization
NY Post Article: Giuliani and Twin Towers Fund
4. Survivors Threaten To SUE Guliani For Relief Funds
· Even after privatizing the twin towers fund, Giuliani would make it incredibly difficult for the victims to receive their fair share. Requiring many of them to spend unnecessary money on advisors and consultants.
· Even with their legal pressure, he only agreed to “give the remaining 100 million to victims,” out of 170 million, if he could first put the money into the bank account of a charity in which he controlled.
· From the attached article: “But Harold Schaitberger, president of the International Association of Fire Fighters, said that he remained adamantly opposed to any transfer of funds to Mr. Giuliani's charity.
He also objected to Mr. Giuliani's continued control over even the $15 million in his private charity. Mr. Giuliani, he charged, gives every indication of using the Twin Towers Fund to maintain a staff of loyal supporters and to advance his political aspirations.
'The concern that politics will infiltrate the fund becomes even more apparent when one reviews the list of the mayor's former political appointees who are assuming senior staff positions or serving on the fund's board of directors,'' he wrote in a letter on Monday to Eliot L. Spitzer, the state attorney general.”
NY Times Article On Guliani Pressed To Disperse Twin Tower Funds
· However, there is no evidence of Giuliani making good on this promise.
· There are honestly no words for this. All associates of Guliani should be investigated.
5. Attempted Election Cancellation in 2001:
· Giuliani tried to cancel the 2001 election to stay mayor longer. He even considered removing term limits with Governor Pataki’s support. Similar to how Trump has “joked” about increasing his own term limits.
Business Insider: Giuliani and Pataki’s Attempt to Cancel Elections
Esquire Trump Joke Third Term
6. Motive
· In 2000, Guliani unfortunately got prostate cancer. We have to be willing to ask if this was a motive for his corrupt acts.
SurvivorNet: Giuliani’s Cancer


Silverstein’s Unscrupulous Greed
1. Initial Settlement Demands and Profit Claims:
· Despite only having been out for $25 million, Silverstein initially sought nearly $8 BILLION in insurance settlements and argued for "loss of revenue from those buildings," which is quite an uncompassionate claim considering how many lost their lives. Talk about a prime example of the working and lower classes making sacrifices while rich elites complain they didn’t profit enough from the same tragedy.
2. Rebuilding Contributions and Insurance Payout:
· Despite the fact that he only owned the leasing rights to the twin towers, ‘Silverstein Properties’ received up to $4 billion from insurance payouts, instead of the Port Authority, which would be customary as the owner.
· While it's assumed that most of that money went to rebuilding, this isn't actually known or proven. It would be different if he had a separate insurance policy that was not connected to the rebuilding of the towers, with different monies going to the Port Authority to rebuild. This was not the case.
History.com: Rebuilding of Ground Zero
· He additionally refused to return the rights of Building 1 to the Port Authority until he secured additional funds from an $8 billion state fund. Talk about heartless.
Wikipedia: Larry Silverstein
· Various entities would contribute a total of $20 billion to rebuild all six damaged or destroyed towers, including four towers leased by Silverstein and two others he hadn't. This makes it unlikely that he had to go out of pocket with his 4 Billion.
3. Estimated Net Worth:
· While earlier records of Silverstein's net worth are unavailable, aside from his near bankruptcy in 1980, he is currently estimated to be worth around $1 billion.
Forbes Profile: Larry Silverstein

Silverstein’s Controversial Alignment with Trump
Larry Silverstein's connections and public persona have often been scrutinized. This scrutiny became particularly relevant in 2015 when he publicly displayed his support for Donald Trump:
Watch Silverstein Discuss Trump
CNN Trump On 2020 Election

The Man Who Boasted
When most people witness a tragedy, especially of this size, it takes time for their brains to comprehend what happened, it takes even more time to process it. Thus, anyone who was able to brag about their own assets hours after this tragedy on a radio show, is at least worthy of Investigation, especially if this very event helped reshape a misinformation landscape in which he would thrive as its King.
Politifact – How 911 Attacks Helped Shape Modern Misinformation

· Insensitive Boasts About Building Height:
o Trump also boasted that with the fall of the Twin Towers, his building became the tallest in Manhattan—an inaccurate and insensitive claim given the context.
Independent 9 11 Trump Tallest Building
· Early Claims and Revisions:
o Shortly after 9/11, Donald Trump claimed he saw the second plane hit the towers from his Manhattan apartment. He also made an unfounded claim that he saw thousands of Muslims in New Jersey cheering, a statement that has been widely debunked. Despite varying explanations and suggesting that he saw it on an untraceable video that was “widely covered,” these claims helped fueled significant conspiracy theories. If anything, this was a self-report.
o Snopes: Trump Claims Muslims Cheered
o FactCheck.org: Trump’s Revised 9/11 Claim
· Visit to Ground Zero:
o A week after the attacks, Trump visited Ground Zero and stated that although he was present, he wouldn’t consider himself a first responder. This attempt at humility struck many as morbidly insensitive, considering the true heroism displayed by actual first responders.
ABC News: Trump Shares New Details About Morning of 9/11

Legacy of Suspicion:
These actions paint Trump as one of the more suspicious figures post-9/11, who may have used the tragedy for personal and political gain. His connections with figures like Larry Silverstein and Lewis Eisenberg, the Port Authority chairman, hint at deep financial interests potentially influenced by the 9/11 aftermath. Meanwhile, survivors and first responders faced challenges in securing support, highlighting the disparities between their experiences and the political maneuvers at play. Again morbidly juxtaposing the struggles of the poor and working class versus elite swamp members such as Trump and his ilk.

While being, arguably, one of the more suspicious Americans of potentially “being an insider," Trump would go on to cast doubt everywhere else with his new holier than thou rhetoric and hints and claims that “it was an inside job” for the next 15 years.

What if he was speaking from personal experience.

The Deepfake Dilemma
Now in a world where Trump's followers already discount reality, the emergence of AI-generated deepfakes threatens to further distort the truth. This technology could transform legal standards of evidence, making it easy to dismiss genuine evidence against the right as fabricated, while baseless accusations against the left might be accepted as the long-awaited proof.

The Potential Escalation of MAGA Actions
Given the willingness of MAGA supporters to storm the Capitol on January 6th, bolstered by Trump's incendiary rhetoric, the potential for escalation is alarming. The advent of fabricated images and videos could present unprecedented national security threats.

Trump's Incendiary Rhetoric on January 6th
Trump's speech on January 6th was a clear incitement, as he urged his followers to "fight like hell" to "stop the steal," despite admitting DURING THE SPEECH that there was no evidence of the massive electoral fraud he claimed. As well as his lawyers laughable court “arguments.”
“...while there is no evidence to prove any wrongdoing…”
Npr.Org Read Trumps Jan 6 Speech
LawAndCrime Come On Now

This speech, coupled with his undermining of constitutional processes, underscores the risks and intentional deceit of his rhetoric. Too bad Republicans senators and our Supreme Court have either claimed he was above the law, or continue to postpone his court dates till after elections. A wild position when treason is on the table. Did that dude commit treason that claims he wants to become a dictator? I dunno, lets let him potentially get elected and then find out!

Elon Musk's Political Shift
Elon was once very much a leftist, unfortunately in more and more far left “activists” continue to attack him endlessly for not agreeing with them on their own singular issues and perspectives. To them I say congratulations, you successfully pushed the most powerful man on earth into the far right. Great job. Great job.
Elon Musk's journey from a liberal supporter to a figure embraced by the far right highlights the volatile nature of political affiliations in today's polarized environment. His actions since acquiring Twitter—such as promoting unfounded conspiracy theories and making high-profile firings—suggest a departure from his initial free speech advocacy.
Especially when considering he fired Don Lemon from his platform for an interview he found offensive. Canceling opinions you find offensive isn’t free speech, it’s literally the opposite. I’m sure many people were offended by the examples below. What about them?
Far Right Support Examples: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

The Need for a Critical Approach
Supporters of Trump should critically evaluate why he did not pardon the January 6th insurrectionists during his term, despite using them as political leverage now. This pattern of using allies until they are no longer useful is evident throughout his political and personal dealings.
What better example could there possibly be as to what trump truly thinks of his supporters, how sacrificial he sees them as part of his endless narratives, then his refusal and failure to pardon January 6th insurrectionists while still in office?
Of course, anyone “just on the grass” or outside the building should only get a day in jail at most, however people that barged inside the capital should naturally get much more.
And while trump refused to pardon those people before, he now calls them “hostages” and is using them as political bait to a truly wild degree. It's very likely he will make good on this promise to further embolden the narrative that “Democrats are trying to take you down and only I can save you.”
His supporters need to seriously ask, “Why didn’t he pardon us before?”
Also, remember when he claimed he would pay legal fees for supporters that were violent at his rallies, but then seemed to falter and change his mind. Much like how Amber Heard donated her money, “by pledging it.”
List of allies he was quick to discard or dump. And let's face it, all of these people have done more for him than the average MAGA supporter. The only person he cares about is himself.
Trump claims that Mike Pence, the man he vetted more than anyone else, “has gone to the dark side.”
Trump seems to have supported the chants to “Hang Mike Pense,” at least in jest? We hope? There are also no links of him condemning them. Yet admittedly this one point doesn’t have hard evidence like a recording or video as far as I know, it certainly fits his brand.
Mike Flynn, a Trump appointee, later testifies against him.
Trump admits Flynn lied on his behalf, accidentally testifying against him, but does pardon him. As long as you’re colluding with Russia you’re ok it seems?

The Future Under Trump's Influence
Trump's rhetoric about overriding constitutional norms to address what he calls "massive fraud" hints at authoritarian aspirations. His praise for dictators and divisive language further aligns with dangerous historical precedents.
Important Articles:
How a second trump term could end us democracy.” -commondreams
Ask the expert: What a 2nd Trump term could mean for democracy and advancing policy.” - Msu Today
Judgement Day” for political opponents.

To predict the future lets base it on known facts:
Apparently, he will help attack our constitution like he may have with the Twin Towers.
“A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution.”
Stated he intended to be a Dictator on day one, but then promises it will be just for a day. Is that how that works? Or is it “Once you go Dictator you don’t go back?”
Praising dictators, referring to immigrants as vermin etc, akin to Hitlers rhetoric against “blood mixing.”
More fraudulent use of lawyers and courts that gets everyone else in trouble but him, with them arguing he's above the law. This further shows how much he will consistently use people for his own ends and then dump them when they're no longer of use.
Warning from republicans and notes on ass kissing. As well as being generally unfit for office.
If you want help from Trump you better kiss his ***
Trumps says he kept Omarosa just because she said nice things about him, while defaming her
DeSantis: "You can be the most worthless Republican in America, but if you kiss the ring, he’ll say you’re wonderful."
Thehill Trump Views People Who Kiss His A As Weak.
And if you dare to speak out against trump, you better kiss his ****
Politico Graham Breaks With Trump On Abortion
WashingtonPost Trump Graham Abortion
News Yahoo 30 More Republicans Denounce Donald Trump Unqualified President
Hot take, if he’s elected president America, and the world, is frankly fucked.

Predicting MAGA 2024 And Beyond
Naturally there are endless possibilities of what MAGA and dictators around the world decide to do this year and into the future. I believe that the one thing that insinuates when it's time for their next evil actions is dictated by their standings in the polls or when a fellow dictator needs a little more political pressure from war torn inflated oil prices etc.
Dictators Unite
While writing my thesis, I speculated that dictators globally were uniting, finding mutual benefits in their governance and deceitful tactics. This theory is increasingly recognized as these autocrats appear to be forming a coalition, undermining peaceful unity efforts through conspiracy theories to preserve their power.
Unherd How Autocrats Unite
The True Nature of MAGA
MAGA was never genuinely about speaking truth to power or restoring America's glory. It has been an elaborate scheme funded by immense wealth, perpetuating anti-American sentiments through fabricated grassroots movements by domestic and foreign actors. This movement has primarily enriched a select few power-hungry dictators and may have been responsible for some of our most horrific moments in history in the past and acts yet to come.
Trump and MAGA
While 'MAGA' predates Trump, he conveniently stepped into a role long in the making. Despite occasional deviations from the MAGA ideology, such as promoting vaccines to emphatic boos, Trump has largely embodied its principles. The real architects of MAGA, however, are likely disillusioned with his unpredictable attacks, which contradict their broader agenda of absolute power.
Nbc News Donald Trump Booed
Trump as a Martyr
Regardless of election outcomes, Trump is poised to claim interference. His rhetoric and the devout belief of his followers in his divine anointment could lead to his martyrdom, especially given his age and the vulnerabilities it brings. This martyrdom could solidify his legacy while serving the interests of MAGA strategists who find him increasingly burdensome even if he “wins.”
Factcheck Trumps Bogus Voter Fraud Claims
La Times Trump Democrats Effort Presidential Ballot
submitted by interventionalhealer to Destiny [link] [comments]


2024.05.11 22:22 Ladysilvert (Spoilers extended) Jon's arch in ADWD, parallels with other Targs events

I liked a lot Jon's whole arch in ADWD, and specially after realising how George has filled the whole "Jon rescuing mission of FArya", which will be the main topic of this post, with references or parallels to other events in ASOIAF and specially, to other Targ events. Let's begin:
Jon sends Mance, disguised as "Abel the singer", to Winterfell in a rescue mission of Arya. It's a straightforward parallel to Bael the Bard myth, since Jon has learnt this story from Ygritte and later Mance. Mance is specially interested in the whole Bael story:
A ranger of the Shadow Tower, Mance often sang of Bael the Bard after returning from rangings beyond the Wall
Mance goes to Winterfell disguised as Abel, which is an anagram for "Bael" with 6 companions disguised as relatives, to snatch a Lady of Winterfell from the Lord of the Castle. It's obvious Mance was trying to recreate a story he has been fascinated with. But the interesting thing is that Bael the Bard is strongly tied to The Tower of Joy Event.
In the original Bael story, we have that Bael is deeply upset with the Lord of Winterfell for calling him a coward. So he disguises as a Bard to enter Winterfell. To reward him for his great music, the Lord of Winterfell offers him whatever he wants, and he chooses the most beautiful blooming flower. The next day, he has disappeared, kidnapping the daughter of Lord Stark, and leaving in her stead a blue winter rose. They searched for them for a long time, until the daughter appeared again with a baby boy, when House Stark was near extinction.
The reason why they never found them was because they had stayed hidden in the crypts, and she was really in love with Bael. Lord Stark raised the boy himself, and never revealed his true parentage. Said boy grew up to be Lord Stark and fought his biological father Bael who had became King beyond the Wall. Bael, who knew he was his son coudn't kill his child, and let the new Lord Stark killed him in battle. When Lord Stark's mother discovered what had happened, she threw herself from a window since she was still in love with Bael, and Lord Stark was slained by some Boltons.
This is clearly a reference to Jon's parents: Rhaegar was known for his love of music and deeply admired for playing the harp and singing. He alledgedly kidnapped the Lord of Winterfell's beautiful daughter Lyanna, who has been linked over and over again to blue roses, though we have reasons to believe Lyanna wasn't truly kidnapped and was in love with Rhaegar, same as Bael and his lady Stark. Jon was raised also by the Lord of Winterfell as his own, without knowing the truth of his real parentage.
Ygritte said this to Jon (which reminds me so much of the comment of Plumm in The Mystery knight btw when he proclaims they were all bastard Targs, I am so sure Maynard Plumm was really BloodRaven disguised)
Ygritte: So there it is—you have Bael's blood in you, same as me.
Jon: It never happened.
Ygritte: Might be it did, might be it didn't. It is a good song, though
Yes, Jon has Bael's blood (Rhaegar's blood).
There is a direct wink to ToJ in FArya rescue mission:
At the end of Robert's Rebellion, Lord Eddard Stark and six of his companions (Howland Reed, Lord Willam Dustin, Ethan Glover, Martyn Cassel, Theo Wull, and and Ser Mark Ryskwell) approached the tower.
Mance also went to rescue FArya with 6 companions
Mance infiltrates with Frenya, Holly, Myrtle, Rowan, Squirrel, and Willow.
Curious fact: Squirrel is one of Arya's nicknames, and Willow is the name of a girl Brienne suspects to be Arya.
The thing is I believe Jon is himself mirroring Bael's story and Tower of Joy's scenario as Rhaegar or Bael. George makes it seem in a more obvious way that it's Mance the one to mirror those two, but the one to send Mance, the one that is "stealing a Stark bride" is Jon. And that's what Ramsay directly tells Jon is his letter.
Your false king's friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me. I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.
I want my bride back...Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it.
In the bold sentences, Ramsay not only accuses him of stealing his bride. He also accuses him of being a liar. So, a thief and a liar. Funny how Jon said the same about Bael.
Jon: Your Bael was a liar. Ygritte: No, but a bard's truth is different than yours or mine.
Technically Jon may be a liar, but he didn't know the truth of Mance and Rattleshirt until later when Melisandre reveals the hoax.
Also, Jon is called a thief a lot, specially by wildlings for stealing women, though he didn't intend to "steal" Ygritte, he did it unintentionally. Here he is just trying to save his sister, but he is accused by Ramsay of stealing his bride Lady Stark, In a similar way, Rhaegar probably just eloped with Lyanna, and in Rhaegar's dumb lovesick mind he was "saving" his loved one from her fiancee (not comparing really Robert with Ramsay though, Rhaegar fucked up and Jon is just trying to save Arya from a monster).
Theon's quote reminds me a little of Rhaegar, too:
Abel had doomed them. All singers were half-mad. In songs, the hero always saved the maiden from the monster's castle, but life was not a song.
In the same way, Rhaegar ("the hero") eloped because of love with his maiden, but since life was not a song, he died and thousands suffered in the country,
All three: Bael, Rhaegar and Jon have the same ending: they die because of their most beloved person.
Bael died because of his love to his son.
Rhaegar died because of his love to Lyanna
Jon died because of his love of Arya.
There's also a deeper parallel between Jon's death and Rhaegar's death. The last thing they thought of is of their loved one (Rhaegar of his woman, Jon of his sister Arya).
Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name
George confirmed the name was Lyanna.
“Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger’s hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. “Ghost,” he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold
Yes, the last word was Ghost, but the very last thought was a sentence he associates 100% with Arya, the person that indirectly caused his death (because of his love for her, he broke his vows and his brothers in the NW killed him), same as Rhaegar died against Robert because of the actions he had commiteed in his love for Lyanna.
But (finally) after talking about ToW and Bael the Bard, there is also a parallel between the Pink Letter and a Targ event which, to be true, we don't know almost nothing: The famous mysterious letter Aegon the Conqueror received, and that made him change his mind completely and admit Dorne was indepent.
Deria indeed suggested the peace, and it is said that King Aegon was about to refuse, when she handed him a letter from Nymor. King Aegon read the letter on the Iron Throne, allegedly clenching the bladed seat so hard his hand started to bleed, burned it once finished, and flew to Dragonstone on Balerion without a word. When he returned the next morning, he agreed to the peace and signed a treaty.
Let's see Jon's reaction to Ramsay's Letters. The first one:
Ramsay Bolton, Lord of the Hornwood, it read, in a huge, spiky hand. The brown ink came away in flakes when Jon brushed it with his thumb. Beneath Bolton's signature, Lord Dustin, Lady Cerwyn, and four Ryswells had appended their own marks and seals. A cruder hand had drawn the giant of House Umber. "Might we know what it says, my lord?" asked Iron Emmett.
Jon saw no reason not to tell him. "Moat Cailin is taken. The flayed corpses of the ironmen have been nailed to posts along the kingsroad. Roose Bolton summons all leal lords to Barrowton, to affirm their loyalty to the Iron Throne and celebrate his son's wedding to …" His heart seemed to stop for a moment. No, that is not possible. She died in King's Landing, with Father....... By now she’d be eleven, Jon thought. Still a child. “I have no sister. Only brothers. Only you.” Lady Catelyn would have rejoiced to hear those words, he knew. That did not make them easier to say. His fingers closed around the parchment. Would that they could crush Ramsay Bolton’s throat as easily. (Jon VI, ADWD)
Both Jon and Aegon receive a letter from the biggest enemy House (House Bolton, House Martell). The letter shakens both of them deeply, Jon clenching the paper in anger and Aegon clenching the throne till he bleeds. Jon feels deeply upset with this letter, but it's the Pink Letter that gets the biggest reaction out of him.
Jon flexed the fingers of his sword hand. The Night’s Watch takes no part. He closed his fist and opened it again. What you propose is nothing less than treason. He thought of Robb, with snowflakes melting in his hair. Kill the boy and let the man be born. He thought of Bran, clambering up a tower wall, agile as a monkey. Of Rickon’s breathless laughter. Of Sansa, brushing out Lady’s coat and singing to herself. You know nothing, Jon Snow. He thought of Arya, her hair as tangled as a bird’s nest. I made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell … I want my bride back … I want my bride back … I want my bride back … “I think we had best change the plan,” Jon Snow said.
"The Night's Watch takes no part in the wars of the Seven Kingdoms," Jon reminded them when some semblance of quiet had returned. "It is not for us to oppose the Bastard of Bolton, to avenge Stannis Baratheon, to defend his widow and his daughter. This creature who makes cloaks from the skins of women has sworn to cut my heart out, and I mean to make him answer for those words ... but I will not ask my brothers to forswear their vows.
"The Night's Watch will make for Hardhome. I ride to Winterfell alone, unless ..." Jon paused. "... is there any man here who will come stand with me?"
Both Aegon and Jon have a complete change of heart after reading the letter's contents, and both take action: Jon intends to save his sister, leaving Castle Black where he is the "ruler", to Winterfell, the ancestral seat of his family. Aegon leaves KL where he is King of the IT to Dragonstone, which is the ancestral seat of his family. Now, from here pure speculation:
I think if one of the most extended theories about the content of Aegon's letter ends up being right (Rhaenys being alive and tortured by the Ullers) it would make the Pink letter a very good parallel of Aegon's, since in both Aegon and Jon discover their beloved sister is alive, and that she is in the hands of the enemy, a House famous for torture and being sadists terrible people. So they would both had given up one of their biggest oaths and beliefs (for Aegon, conquering Dorne; for Jon, not breaking his vows) to save a beloved sister.
I for sure feel George is a genius for drawing so much parallels between stories within ASOIAF.
Aditionally, Bael the Bard and his son Lord Stark's endings are for sure infuenced by Greek's mythology: Bael's son would be Oedipus, who killed unknowingly his own father Laius, King of Thebes. After discovering this, his mother Jocasta killed herself (though in the Greek there was incest also in the tale, since Oedipus had married Jocasta without knowing she was his mother, weird that there was more incest in the original story than in ASOIAF story lol).
submitted by Ladysilvert to asoiaf [link] [comments]


2024.05.11 21:47 Smurphilicious Auri returned to Mantle with a sorrel colored candle

This is the scene from Slow Regard where Auri creates Kvothe's candle
Auri stood, and in the circle of her golden hair she grinned and brought the weight of her desire down full upon the world.
And all things shook. And all things knew her will. And all things bent to please her.
 
Auri returned to Mantle with a sorrel colored candle pressed with lavender. It smelled of bay and bees. It was a perfect thing.
Not a "red as berries" candle, not "red as blood", not just any kind of red candle, it is a sorrel colored candle.
The Sorrel horse color is known for its rich reddish-brown tones. It is considered a base color, meaning it is one of the fundamental coat colors found in horses.
Auri made a sorrel colored candle for her sorrel colored horse.
“I know,” she said sadly. “It’s bad sometimes, isn’t it?”
She stroked my hair gently, and it only made me cry harder. I could not remember the last time someone had touched me in a loving way.
“I know,” she said. “You have a stone in your heart, and some days it’s so heavy there is nothing to be done. But you don’t have to be alone for it. You should have come to me. I understand.”
My body clenched and suddenly the taste of plum filled my mouth again. “I miss her,” I said before I realized I was speaking. Then I bit it off before I could say anything else. I clenched my teeth and shook my head furiously, like a horse fighting its reins.
... remember where Kvothe lived before Anker's?
After I left the Fishery I headed straight to the Horse and Four, arguably the best inn this side of the river. The innkeeper was a bald, portly fellow named Caverin. I showed him my talent pipes and bargained for a pleasant fifteen minutes.
The end result was that in exchange for playing three evenings a span I received free room and board. The Four’s kitchens were remarkable, and my room was actually a small suite: bedroom, dressing room, and sitting room. A huge step up from my narrow bunk in the Mews.
and since ya'll seem to hate the bible quotes, here's some more mythology connected to Aeolus (you might also enjoy my post about the Aeolian)
In ancient Greek religion and myth, the Anemoi (Greek: Ἄνεμοι, "Winds") were wind gods who were each ascribed a cardinal direction from which their respective winds came (see Classical compass winds), and were each associated with various seasons and weather conditions. They were the progeny of the goddess of the dawn Eos and her husband, the god of the dusk, Astraeus.
The Anemoi are minor gods and are subject to the god Aeolus. They were sometimes represented as gusts of wind, and at other times were personified as winged men. They were also sometimes depicted as horses kept in the stables of the storm god Aeolus, who provided Odysseus with the Anemoi in the Odyssey.
 
Four Winds.
 
White
His face was narrow and sharp, with the perfect beauty of porcelain. His hair was shoulder length, framing his face in loose curls the color of frost. He was a creature of winter’s pale. Everything about him was cold and sharp and white.
Black
The voice came from a man who sat apart from the rest, wrapped in shadow at the edge of the fire. Though the sky was still bright with sunset and nothing stood between the fire and where he sat, shadow pooled around him like thick oil. The fire snapped and danced, lively and warm, tinged with blue, but no flicker of its light came close to him. The shadow gathered thicker around his head. I could catch a glimpse of a deep cowl like some priests wear, but underneath the shadows were so deep it was like looking down a well at midnight.
Red
“The Flame” is obvious if you’ve ever seen me. I have red hair, bright. If I had been born a couple hundred years ago I would probably have been burned as a demon. I keep it short but it’s unruly. When left to its own devices, it sticks up and makes me look as if I have been set afire.
and Pale
“This is a story of Felurian. Lady of Twilight. Lady of the First Quiet. Felurian, who is death to men. But a glad death, and one they go to willingly.”
 
Four Horsemen.
submitted by Smurphilicious to KingkillerChronicle [link] [comments]


2024.05.11 20:06 UsualAmbitious the worst teacher possible teacher is finally getting fired 🎉🎉🎉

I'm so giddy about this news, and I just need to yap endlessly into a void.
I cannot put into words just how exactly bad this teacher was. For some cliff notes, basically he's
I want to start talking about the non-education things that he did/does (there are still a few days in my school year). For the first grievance I have with him, he has lied constantly about being a Navy Seal, A government spy, a Vietnam vet, and a Marine. Funnily enough, he had gone AWOL on the first week of training, he has an entire page about stolen valor for him (Which I won't link to protect my privacy). He also has his own style of Kung-Fu, which has its own 200 dollar book on Amazon. And coming from my friend's coach it's incredibly illegitimate too, which I find hilarious. He also would go on these weird tangents about his time as a Navy Seal or from when he was a Spy with his wife, at one point he recounted the entire plot of Taken, acting like it was real. He even used the famous quote from it, "I will find you, and I will kill you".
For my personal experience with him, I had him last year for a Mythology class, and it was actually the most boring thing that I could have ever endured. His low-toned, droning voice that would go on and on about stories that vaguely relate to the lesson, and after the lecture he assigned us about 5 different assignments that all have their own separate hour long readings, with 4 questions per article that all require a paragraph in each of them. Whenever I asked for help on anything, he gave me the lead-paint thousand-yard stare, and then would give me a weird scrunched up smile. The only reason I had ever stayed in that class was the first semester project, which had us make an entire mythology.
From my other friends who had his English class this year, I learned that they had to be assigned more work than I was being given, and I was/am in an Honors English class. Which caused just about all of his students to fail because of how he overworks every single one of his students, and there are a lot of students in his non-honors English class who have IEP's (I forgot the name of it). On top of that he allegedly grades his non-white students a lot harsher compared to the others.
I learned about this from a friend who is an office aid when he heard a couple admins talking about how finally this man is getting fired. And when I tell you I learned of this my day was sunshine and rainbows, someone could've decked me across the face that day but because I knew he was getting fired after this year I would've thanked them kindly.
Anyways, thank you for reading my yap session that I'm doing to avoid working on my final exam projects. I'm finally leaving this school, which means I'll never have to see him again, but I hate this one teacher so much that I had to air out my grievances to the world in this borderline essay. God may bless me 1,000 wishes if this teacher says something in the future along the lines of "I chose to leave on my own terms." Because I and anyone who has ever had him knows he will.
submitted by UsualAmbitious to teenagers [link] [comments]


2024.05.11 05:43 Aromatic_Heart9626 the minotaur

there is something so stuck and bogged down about amnesiac and god i love it.
this winter i had to move back to my hometown and would just do long walks in circles listening to this song and it was just how i felt; wandering, making the same turns, thinking the same thoughts.
i loved thom’s use of greek mythology and the thought of the minotaur being trapped in a labyrinth and repeating it’s mistakes, of sorts. probably one of my favorite quotes he’s ever said was from the kid A/amnesiac book: “kid a was these increasingly urgent answerphone messages left on a phone that no one ever listened to, and amnesiac- i had this idea that amnesiac was songs that had been left in a drawer in an old dusty chest of drawers that had been left in an attic. so both were kind of…crying out for attention but had been forgotten.”
submitted by Aromatic_Heart9626 to radiohead [link] [comments]


2024.05.10 20:22 QIAMod Start Here: The Noteworthy Collection

This page aims to showcase noteworthy content including subreddit posts, comments, videos, and tweets. The posts are organized by topic. Here, we aim to recreate the deprecated Reddit 'Collections' feature.

The Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama'at

Engaging without being derogatory * Tweet - The reason why "Qadiani" and "mirzai" are considered derogatory terms.
Waqfe Nau Scheme

Atheism

Hadith

Homeopathy

Homosexuality

On "Marrying Out": rules, logistics, resources, and experiences

Getting Permission to Marry Out * Have any Ahmadi girls been able to marry non-Ahmadi Muslims without getting kicked out? * To those with non-Ahmadi S/Os who got Huzur * Question! Woman from Ahmadi family marrying a non-Muslim.
Fake Conversions for Marriage Purposes * Marrying an Ex Ahmadi * Marriage to an ahmadi * Converting Process for Marriage * Question about partner's conversion
Resignation from the Jama'at and Marriage w/o Permission * Administrative Clarification on Marriage after a Formal Resignation from the Jama'at * To those who have a non-ahmadi SO/Partner, how did you parents/family react? To those who don’t intend to marry within the community, what’s your plan? * Has anyone here got married without the permission of Jamaat? Did your family ever forgive you? How does the jamaat punish? * Ahmadis Who Married Outside the Jamat and Weren't Kicked Out: What was your experience?
Ethical Questions to the Jama'at Concerning Marriage Matters * The issue of Compatibility in Marriage/Rishta Nata : Kafu * Patriarchal rules and Women subordination in respect to choosing a spouse in the Ahmadiyya community * Jamaat policies which limit the presence, influence, and agency of women * Can Sunnis and Ahmadis marry? * An Ahmadi man who does his Nikkah with a non-Ahmadi imam must be disciplined and he is no longer a member of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. * Controlling Marriage: Murabbi sb is NOT necessary for marriage
Legal Matters / Fiqah * Ahmadi marriages and Western legal systems * Nikah & Civil marriage process are both really necessary in western society * Wali: Ahmadi Fiqah vs idea of Ahmadi Apologist Tahir Nasser * Halala, marriage with non-ahmadis and jihad

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad

Prophecy: Muhammadi Begum * Muhammadi Begum was 13/14 years old when Mirza Sahib, aged 53, made a Prophecy of marrying her. - The Muhammadi Begum saga's outrageous aspect of age-difference.
Prophecy: The Plague * The Plague in India: Who benefited from this pandemic? - MGA using a natural disaster killing many innocent people unjustifiably as a sign for his success. * The "great sign of the plague" misrepresented - A juxtaposition of an article on alislam.org quoting a revelation from Tadhkirah and what the actual entry in Tadhkirah says. * Claim that MGA predicted the Plague 25 years prior to the event in Brahin-e-Ahmadiyya - A showcase of the Promised Messiah's modification to the interpretation of a revelation such that it appears as if he predicted the plague 25 years before it actually happened. * Religious opportunism during plagues - Noting the tendencies of religions to capitalize on periods of fear for their gain.

Personal Experiences

The Qur'an

Theology

Salvation * Difference of opinion between 2 khalifas Salvation - A difference of opinion between the 2nd Khalifa and the 4th Khalifa about 2:63. One implies that only muslims can get salvation, the other says that anyone sincere will, regardless of whether they are a muslim or not.
Coercion
Scientific Implications

Why and How We Left

Here, we provide you with some of the most popular and/or most impactful threads in this sub's history. This is the best of Questioning Islam/Ahmadiyya. If you're a new subscriber, you'll want to explore some of the amazing discussions in our archive, starting with these

Women

Polygamy * The Promised Son (Mirza Basheer-ud-Din Mahmood Ahmad, Khalifa II): Polygamy & Underage Wives * Any woman who complains about her husband's second marriage becomes Kafir, Ahmadis should marry more than one wife to dispel myths about polygamy * MGA's views on sexual relationships - An ugly husband is ok but not an ugly wife/ Polygamy Roohani Khazain.
Prisoners of war * Up is down, black is white and Rape is not Rape - A response to the response by Maulana Farhan Iqbal on the issue of non-consensual marriage of prisoner of war in Islam as interpreted by the Ahmadiyya community. * The Ahmadi position on non-consensual marriage of prisoners of war - Analysis of the apologia surrounding the position of Ahmadiyyat around PoWs. * Having Sex with Slave girls after 4 Marriages is allowed ?
submitted by QIAMod to islam_ahmadiyya [link] [comments]


2024.05.10 04:31 MalificViper Arguments for prophecy, ideology, and divinity are unsound

A person seeking truth about God, the divine, a cosmic being, or even more mundane matters should examine text thoroughly to make sure what they believe is true. Weighing and examining facts and other viewpoints is critical. In order to effectively determine truth, claims presented should follow a logical standard, avoiding logical fallacies. The proposition I am presenting begs the question about God because it is about theological context, not debating whether or not God is real. The purpose is challenging existing presuppositions without challenging faith in the divine.
First I am establishing a few definitions 1. Faith as a reason for belief. According to the New Testament and the theological definition of faith, it is belief without reason or evidence. (Heb 11:1) This is an illogical position and not conducive to conversation because believing something without evidence means if evidence is produced it won’t change a position on faith. Example: Flat Earth. If someone believes the earth is flat based on faith despite all the evidence to the contrary, they will still believe it. See1 [2]( https://www.triplem.com.au/story/flat-earthers-spend-20-000-trying-to-prove-earth-is-flat-accidentally-prove-it-s-round-129953) >"We obviously were not willing to accept that, and so we started looking for easy to disprove it was actually registering the motion of the Earth."
  1. Poisoning the well. I won’t respond if there are accusations that either I must believe in something first, or I misunderstood the text. It needs to be demonstrated that I am incorrect, not just asserted.
  2. Greek source material. I think it should be generally understood there is no such thing as a monolithic Greek text called “The Septuagint” because it is a colloquial term that attempts to tie a mythological event to texts way outside its original scope. For further information I highly recommend Dr. Peter Williams’ lecture on it1 if Greek translations are critical for your argument, I would just want to know why I should accept it over Hebrew. I’ll preemptively point out that saying “Jews changed the Masoretic text” will be blocked, and shows a misunderstanding of the history, like the Niqqud additions being the changes. Modern scholars rely on the Hebrew even today, because original documents do not have vowels or “niqqud” so verses like “Don’t boil a kid in it’s mother’s milk” could be “fat” without the Hebrew translations.
  3. Verse quotes. I am going to be removing verse numbers to encourage a full reading of surrounding text.
Now, context: The New Testament relies significantly on taking verses out of context in order to produce post hoc justification. This is done primarily in these areas:
  1. Prophecy
  2. Ideology
  3. Divinity
Prophecy
The Gospel of Matthew* is the primary or most prominent source of fulfillment prophecies, that is, the Old Testament allegedly predicted Jesus’ arrival and the events that followed after. There are a few problems with any prophecy that I will highlight before getting into the details.
1.Without defined timelines or specific details, a prophecy can be made unfalsifiable. For example, Alex Jones warned that secretive forces are at work to control the weather. Now he can claim any significant weather event is a result of these secretive forces. Famously, Nostradamus is so vague that he gets credited for numerous prophecies, and finally, if something is predicted and someone works to fulfill that prediction, is it really a fulfilled prophecy? Currently there is someone working to breed red heifers to fulfill prophecy[1]( https://www.jpost.com/judaism/article-717650) so you have to ask yourself if that is a legitimate pathway to truth.
2.If we look at context, we can see that false prophecy is mistaken, misleading, or intentionally untrue, such as the case of Hananiah in the book of Jeremiah.
Now, Matthew* has several problems to overcome when it comes to prophecy. Mainly that it was written decades after the events, is not a firsthand account, and is not corroborated by extrabiblical sources. That doesn’t necessarily make it false, but it does affect the credibility of the account. It was written in Greek and used Greek source material for the Old Testament which will come into play later.
Example 1
Matthew’s prophecy of a messiah coming out of Egypt “And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
This is a reference to Hosea 1, where it is actually Israel that was called out of Egypt. Then it goes on to talk about how Israel sacrificed to Baalim, and burned incense to graven images. This chapter is Hosea recalling the Exodus and to cherry pick a single line and change the subject of the text is either a mistake, misleading, or intentional deception. Even if it cited the source material appropriately, having one person travel from one place to another is not much of a prophecy. Which is more likely? Jesus fulfilled a heavily edited prophecy, or Matthew* sent the family to Egypt and back in the text and made something work?
Example 2
The virgin birth. This is is probably better explained here and here while I know citing reddit sources isn’t exactly the best, a lot of modern bibles fix this error and as far as I know the source of why it is contentious is because in the Dialogue with Trypho (A strawman conversation with Justin Martyr) in Chapter 43 he makes a case for the virgin interpretation and the Catholic church did have a tendency to support influential church members translations when they had contradictions or gaps in information. If this is a point of contention I can try to dig through my notes to find it for you. However the relevant part is that the prophecy is again, ripped out of context because Isaiah in chapter 7 is talking to a King, points to a woman who is pregnant and says by the time the kid is grown up, the king’s enemies will be gone. Jesus was also never called by the name that he was supposed to be called, and theophory is common.1
I feel like this is getting lengthy so instead of going further, I challenge you to bring forth any prophecy you have and I will do my best to show the context around it. However in most cases, reading the whole chapter, or the text above and below will probably suffice.
Ideology
The New Testament relies on creating problems and then becoming the cure for them. A poignant example is the sermon on the mount where Jesus claims adultery is not simply sleeping with someone, but lusting after them. This creates a nigh-impossible standard because while adultery has significant real world consequences, creating thought crimes becomes a bar so high that unless you have an alternative, you are doomed to fail. Like a person being pushed into the water to drown, the culprit reaches a hand down to help you, as does the New Testament. I had a post about atonement but had some errors so this will be a summarized version. Hebrews 9 states that blood is necessary to atone for sins, yet sins could be atoned for by flour, (Leviticus 5) yearly atonement without sacrifice (Lev 16) a goat could carry them and be released (Lev 16) repentance (Psalm 40) Misquoted and deleted words in Hebrews 10 (II Samuel, Psalms 51, Micah 6, I Samuel 15, Hosea 14, I Kings 8) so it is very clearly established that there are other ways to be forgiven, and not have to rely on blood sacrifice.
The concept of atonement as something that can be done for another person is claimed in the New Testament, namely Jesus died for everyone’s sins. This is violating many precepts in the Old Testament, such as Ezekiel 18, which summarized, explains that the sins one person commits belong to that person, and the person who sins shall die. Other people cannot pay for them. I would argue that if the New Testament claims concerning atonement can be shown valid, then the Old Testament claims cannot be trusted as they would not be reliable by definition.
Divinity
There are a few claims in the New Testament which can clearly make an argument that Jesus was divine in nature. Titus 2 makes the claim using atonement as a claim as well. As previously established, this is contradictory. His claims are dubious due to being considered inauthentic, the immoral recommendation concerning women and slaves in that chapter, as well as a estimated date range of ~100+ years for documentation.
Philippians 2 makes another claim that Jesus was God. This might be the closest to the date of Jesus but is considered a Pauline letter who himself was not present at the events he repeats. There isn’t any actual evidence presented, just a claim Jesus was God and died and exalted to the highest place. Hebrews 1 has some murky theology but seems primarily to be used to shorthand reference old testament texts to tie to Jesus. This is one of the best examples out of context cherry picking. See Hebrews 9 for most obvious. Again however this was written well after the death of Jesus so I’m not sure how it can be used for any claims.
Again there may be much, much, more and if you can make a sound argument give me time to respond and I will do my best. I will ask that you try to stick to either of the three main topics for ease of discussion.
To summarize and come to a conclusion, the claims made in the New Testament concerning prophecy, ideology, and divinity are rejected due to unconvincing arguments. I realize there are hundreds of claims and I didn't even address a fraction, however if you have a specific one I can work to address it.
submitted by MalificViper to DebateAChristian [link] [comments]


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